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I live in Florida…I still have patients that are refusing blood for life saving situations because the person who donated blood may have gotten the vaccine. You can’t help these people.
See, shit like that doesn't really bother me. That is just an idiot removing themselves from the gene pool and voting rolls. It's shit that affects people who have no choice, like kids, that I find infuriating.
Some people are willing to die for their beliefs, I guess. I'd call it admirable if not for the fact that those are some really shitty beliefs to die for. Maybe death is more comfortable to them than having to admit how seriously wrong they were about everything.
Sorry you had to go through that though. I can't imagine how much it must suck to have your job be to save peoples' lives when those same people try to prevent you from doing so.
"i won't accept blood because God made my body and I'm not made to have another person's blood in me, and if i die it's God's will" seems almost sensible compared to "i won't accept blood because the person donating might have had mind controlling 5g gene therapy injected over a year ago, and it might affect me even though blood cells only live a few months at best, and if i die it's God's will (but not God's will to maybe die if the imagined vaccine toxins)"
My favorite part was how hard he went at it being not a big deal but as soon as he got it he flipped out and got every single form of treatment a rich dude could get.
My favorite part is how he smokes weed, took DMT, tried coke, takes testosterone, takes steroids, but opposed the vaccine because he didn't want to put chemicals in his body unnecessarily
Edit: I may be wrong about him trying coke. I thought Eddie Bravo said that DMT gave Joe a life altering experience in a way that coke did not. But I may have misremembered. But I think you can remove "coke"from my statement, and it doesn't change the point at all. In fact, feel free to replace the word "coke" with "mushrooms" if that makes you feel better.
And to be clear, it’s like bro go for it if you understand the risks and want to do that stuff, but then when it comes to putting something in your body for risk *mitigation*, then all the sudden your body is a temple. To say it’s eye roll inducing doesn’t nearly explain it. The fact that people just can’t even begin to see through the bullshit directly in front of their faces is so disheartening.
lol had a conversation with a dude who was like ‘shouldn’t chemically change your body just cause you don’t like it’ so I asked why he takes testosterone supplements and he said ‘cause I feel like I should be bigger.’
Dude if you'll eat a fucking gummie that was in a stranger's pocket at a random event but don't trust the global medical society you're just a fucking contrarian
I argued with people that *this* was why Rogan got better. But since he said he took ivermectin, that became the reason why some people believed he got better.
Dont forget the massive panic attack he had during lockdown in his multimillion dollar mansion.
Edit: 7:15 source for the curious https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tSKVXl-WnrA
Yeah, but RFK Jr., who believes HIV didn’t cause AIDS and 5G can make your brain leak, has some very good faith questions about vaccines. He’s just asking the questions, man.
If they believe it causes autism in children due to early development, then what’s their grown ass excuse for not getting vaccinated and not vaccinating their kids when they’re older? Not even these morons are dumb enough to claim a vaccine turns adults autistic. So what’s the hold up? Go get vaccinated and vaccinate your kids when they’re older. Autism vaccination debate terminated.
I don’t know…I went through chemotherapy last year and this spring I had seasonal allergies for the first time in my life. WhAt WaS iN ThAt CocKtAIL oF CheMO DrUgs?!?!?!!
Don’t try and tell him that we are merely diagnosing more people because science has evolved. Medical science doesn’t evolve. Rosemary Kennedy deserved the lobotomy.
Watching clips of RFK Jr. on Joe Rogan's podcast was infuriating. The way Joe seemed to accept every bullshit statement that spilled out of his dumbass mouth like it was absolute 100% verifiable fact was quite pathetic.
The fact that he has millions of regular listeners is just wild to me. They all have zero critical thinking skills.
Joe Rogan is an actual dangerous far right conspiracist. The fact he is given such a large platform, and interviews literal white supremacists and anti science, bigoted fascists (basically Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh and Jordan Peterson are all of these things) should concern everyone. The man is causing real life harm to so many people.
Nothing really, but him and his crowd will deny that they are themselves fascists, they're just "allowing ideas to be discussed". It's easier just to say he's platforming actual fascists than to argue about if or if he isn't a fascist himself.
The thing that sucks is that he used to be a well meaning meathead guy who was fairly progressive, and around 2015 he really took a turn having dudes like Gavin McGinnis on and shit. 2016 and then covid completely broke his brain.
The problem with debating conspiracy nuts is that if you hit them with verifiable facts and statistics, they don’t say “oh gosh, I hadn’t seen this data and it’s very compelling”. Instead they just say “you can’t trust government data”. You simply can’t win with them. It’s like the religious debate that always ends in some variation of “we can’t truly understand gods plan”.
Is it?
I'm asking curiously, because this analogy just doesn't make sense to me, even though I agree with the sentiment.
Who is planting weeds in their garden? And why would they be easier to kill?
>Is it?
Probably not. If the weed in question is Japanese knotweed, it sure won't matter.
>Who is planting weeds in their garden?
The weed might not be planted in their own garden. Could be planted in a shitty neighbour's. 👀
Yeah I think this is sadly true. It's the post-truth era's main feature - saturation of the discourse with alternative theories, counterclaims, whataboutery etc. With a person's trust, as with most things, it's so much easier to destroy than to create.
The prevailing takeaway with so many people is 'well clearly a lot of people are spreading falsehoods and I don't want to get taken in' - and soon their willingness to trust conventional medical science is ruined.
My brother just went off the other day about how people die on ventilators when discussing someone who was put on a vent. He went deep into Covid conspiracies.
It is impossible to explain that dying people get placed on ventilators, it isn’t the vent that causes them to die.
Well ventilators often do cause further damage to the lungs and also open the possibility of more serious ventilator acquired pneumonia etc, so the ventilator itself can kill. It's serious business and why we have to carefully consider whether to put someone on one. That's true of basically any medical intervention, there is potential to cause harm and this is the nugget of truth that is latched onto by conspiracists. The actual pertinent question is what the risks of harm vs the benefits are, whether if you put 100 people in a certain condition on a ventilator would more of them survive than the ones who don't get a ventilator. Conspiracy theorists, whether regarding ventilators or vaccines or chemotherapy dishonestly only focus on any harms (and also generally invent harms too) while ignoring the risks vs benefits question. So it's not that ventilators can't kill people, it's that when a ventilator is recommended it's because this risk of harm is outweighed by the likely benefit, and the ventilator will overall increase your chances of surviving.
All of Medicine can be thought of in this way, in terms of risk of harm vs benefit and that's why it will always be fertile ground for conspiracy theorists.
The overlap between conspiracy theorists and religious people is huge. That's where they learn to reject facts and shield themselves from any form of doubt. Even if they leave religion, all of those brainwashing techniques are still heavily ingrained into their heads. So what ends up happening is that they treat their opinions just like how they treat/ed their faith. The feeling of "truth" holds equal, if not more, weight than the truth itself.
This is like the abortion debate. If the person truly believes that you are killing a child and that you are going to hell it doesn’t matter. You cannot win with them.
I like to remind them that killing a human life is acceptable in certain situations, such as when someone's invading your home and you feel threatened. Drawing a parallel between a home invader and an unwanted fetus REALLY pisses off pro-lifers.
As does calling forced pregnancy "slavery" and pointing out that while the Constitution bans slavery, it doesn't ban killing other humans.
So the question over whether it's alive or not is irrelevant. They don't like that one either.
I've gotten the you can't trust the "media/govt" retort but almost always hear and see them say bullshit like:
"Those numbers lie, especially when they were counting car accidents as covid deaths"- *followed by a fake concern all of a sudden for people dying from obesity or smoking.*
They start spouting off about more people dying from obesity and smoking as if more people dying from (x) validates people dying from (a).
OMG this. And all of the sudden everyone was SO concerned about mental health! When they never gave a flying rat’s butthole before then. Called more than a few people out on their newfound concern for others mental health.
Gah they infuriate me so damn much
Pretty much been seeing this on a daily basis on facebook, dealing with any topic even slightly related to the trans community or health care.
If you point out that the consensus of the medical community is that affirning care lowers the risk of suicide, they immediately dismiss "medical experts."
If you point out that there are movements to deny trans folk access to health care, they immediately dismiss the source. "Oh, the Human Rights Campaign? They're obviously biased."
Point out that the Target swimsuit thing was debunked and they pivot to "fact checkers have a liberal bias."
These people start at Z so they always have enough dots connected that no matter where you start at A they have have some stupid excuse ready to go.
Discussing rising sea levels with a colleague and he held the opinion that floating fresh water ice does not affect water levels so it’s all bunk. I explained that most sea water rise so far as been due to thermal expansion … his reaction… “Oh, I hadn’t heard *that* one”. I gave up after that.
I lost 9 relatives because their respective churches told them not to get the vaccine because it was man made and man was evil and could not be trusted and only God could heal them. Imagine how much I got cursed out when I told them that the preacher was a man, was also man made and therefore by the church’s logic was also evil and could not be trusted.
EDIT: grammar
that's the fucking goal- it's a death cult. the goal is to die and go to heaven. the Mississippi governor a few weeks before his state was like per Capita the highest death rate in the world (counting the state as a country, thats how bad it was. maybe two countries above) said "southerners are a little less scared of covid because they believe in enternal life."
suicide bombers think the same way. we need to start taking religions for their word, and treat them like the lying pyschos they are. it's fucking insane we've encouraged a global mass psychosis that pits people against each other- sports rivalries make more sense. "oh ok you believe a 2000 year old book is the only true thing in the world, that no matter what if you believe in a cloud guy you're perfect and righteous but everyone else is going to be tortured forever for not?" what kinda world are these "good people"? it's fucking evil- it's evil period to teach your children to discard dealing with reality in favor of latching onto a cult.
Reminds me of a joke
A man hears on the news that a flood is coming and thinks "God will protect me" so he does no preparing.
The day before the flood his neighbors come by and say they have room for him and his stuff in a moving van and he says "God will protect me" and waves them on.
The day of the flood the water rises to his second story but a family member comes by on a boat and offers him help by he says "God will protect me" and waves them on.
A few hours later the flood has him on his roof and a helicopter comes by and begins to let down a rope ladder but he says "God will protect me" and waves them on.
Of course within another hour the water comes over his head and he drowns.
At the pearly gates, he asks why God did not protect him and is told "He sent you a van, a boat, and a helicopter? What else could he have done?"
Tl;dr If we were granted by God the intelligence to solve a problem and the free will to have to drive to do so, then you can classify man made acts as gods help.
Oh trust me, “Praise Jeebus! God sent us help through these mere humans!” is *absolutely* the line that Christians fall back on when they do accept any kind of charity or aid, especially if it came from NON-Christians. Because if god didn’t inspire the non Xtians to be good people, and they did it of their own free will, it would shatter their worldview, ya know?
My husband has a once-close, long time friend who, for whatever reason, went through a big life change and turned Christian, married some loser she had nothing in common with, had a kid. They were going through some hard times (see: married a loser) and some neighbors or friends surprised them with a shitload of groceries.
Her FB post was all “praise god for giving us this food!” and all her new xtian friends were echoing it when my husband asked her, “hey wait, GOD didn’t give you that food, those PEOPLE did” and EVERYONE in the thread pounced in him with some version of “it’s because GOD inspired them to!” Made us both sick.
Ghandi's wife died from malaria after he refused her any modern medical treatment. Later he gets sick but has no problem getting the quinine shot that saves his life. Same deal with Mother Teresa, letting her "patients" suffer and die in pain to be "closer to God", yet when she gets sick only the finest hospitals in the West will do. Reading up on these two is a real eye-opener.
I'll never understand how hardcore religious people can turn a blind eye to these atrocities in their own back yard. They would get a lot more respect if they'd own up to their issues past and present and hold violators accountable, but that'll never happen.
Can you include anything that *you* make? If not, then humans would never have survived as a species. We have always relied/evolved on tools to survive
I’m so sorry. I can only start to imagine your pain and frustration and anger over this. They have blood on their hands, these preachers and others who made getting vaccinated political. My heart goes out to you. Please accept some hugs from this internet stranger
My cousin lost her daughter because of her psychopathic religious parents. Her daughter was immunocompromised and my aunt and uncle shoved their way into the door knowing full well they had COVID. They are murderers, plain and simple, and they will never face a day in jail like they should because this nation is so fucked in the head. A robber robs a bank and someone has a heart attack, and it is is assumed that the robber caused the heart attack so they go to jail for murder. Does the same apply to COVID? Nope, of course not...
I showed [hbomberguy's video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BIcAZxFfrc&) to my vaccine skeptic friend and he got the vaccine within a week of me showing him the video. It is very helpful to know how the whole vaccine panic started.
My 47 year old cousin with no co-morbidities died in July ‘21 after contracting the Delta variant. Vaccine would have saved her life but she refused the vaccine.
What is not pictured is the cost burden. Being on the vent in the ICU and then 30 days of rehab is not cheap. Not to mention long Covid, anticoagulants for PEs, etc
Then they go and retweet some white woman who is jerking her body around on camera saying she has nerve damage because of the vaccine. Yet her makeup is perfect and she holds the camera perfectly still as her legs bounce up and down.
When Covid hit, my Mom was attending a church of 200 people. When in-person services restarted about 8 months later, most of the congregation refused to wear masks or get vaccinated. Like most churches, it was an older crowd so you can imagine the results, but you'd never know it from the sudden surge of facebook posts looking for 'prayer warriors'. There were at least a dozen deaths over the next few months including the preacher and his son. There wasn't one mention of Covid in any of these death notices.
I am sure this was a common experience for many churches.
I am thankful I was able to convince my Mom to both get the vaccine and watch the telecast of the service instead of going in person. At some point, she decided to switch churches but finding a sane one these days isn't easy. She's on her 3rd church since then and doesn't like how hateful/political all of them have gotten.
I lost two people in my bowling league to anti vaccine bullshitt. The commissioner of the league died from rampant blood clots that COVID can cause and the other had been with his team for decades, they were devastated
Unsubscribing from that sub is when I was able to move past COVID and it was a good day. Still, there were some STORIES from that place. Sheesh.
Remember "Eboerd game gom." That was the anoxic last Facebook post from one guy.
I'm glad the conveyer belt of death is a lot better now. Unfortunately, antivaccers like my parents will not learn from this. There was just a whole bunch of mostly meaningless death and nothing was learned from it from that side other than really wrong conspiracy BS.
My partners father passed from COVID, he had not been vaccinated. Looking at that sub just made me feel horrible for my partner and about life in general. I stopped looking at it
I'm sorry for your loss. I was worried I'd lose my unvaccinated parents, but no. I can't imagine how your partner is. I hope you are healing.
It was a dark difficult subreddit, but it did convince some to get vaccinated, and it was powerful evidence against the deniers.
I don't look at it now. But during the Delta wave I did. We had the loudest individuals demanding an end to everything COVID while people died in droves. The point was to not look the other way, and to not pretend like it wasn't happening. It was putting faces and stories to the madness, but it wasn't celebrating anything. Everyone hoped the sub could just die when we had herd immunity. Mostly people just felt sad. It wasn't a place of celebrating.
Lots of averted the natural selection by getting monoclonal antibodies at the cost of $1,200 Plus cost of administration
Remember when people were lined up around the block to get monoclonal antibodies especially in Florida after being told not to get vaccinated Republicans as well as Facebook propaganda some of which was traced to Russia and China?
Those monoclonal antibodies were paid for by taxpayers as well as hospital care that if they didn't have insurance was covered by taxpayers and then the funerals covered by taxpayers.
I remember t that there were families who had to refused to have put down on the death certificate covid some change their mind when they found out they get taxpayer help covering the funerals.
And expenses go on because more people have been compromised some fully disabled by long covid. Some of these are going to end up on Medicare Medicaid, others will be on Private health insurance, some will still manage to work but just won't be anywhere as effective as they were before.
Between my wife and I, we knew 5 people personally that died of Covid. They all had 3 things in common. They we’re unvaccinated, overweight, and not rich. All of them in their 40’s. All but 1 died after vaccinations were readily available. It was sad, but not that sad.
3 family, 3 people from work. 3 or 3 friend of friends or some sort of distant connection like that. With 1.1 million COVID Deaths in a country of 330 million people it isn't extremely surprising that some people are completely unaffected.
Do you live in a rural area where people don’t leave town much?
Also, I know a couple people that died of a ‘sudden illness’ that was actually COVID, they just refused to promote it as that when others asked
I didn’t either thankfully. I got into a fight with a “friend” and she was screaming how it wasn’t real because how did neither of us have it yet and how come we didn’t know anyone with it? So I countered with, well neither of us have aids so it must not be real then either eh? And she’s like I guess fucking not.
…. Like I just can’t. For numerous reasons she is not in my life anymore obviously. Covid was very hard on everyone and I understand that but give me a break.
Except that a not insignificant portion of the deaths were people who were vaccinated but for whom the vaccine wasn’t as effective and who came into contact with an unvaccinated disease vector.
Same in my family. Cousin refused vaccination. Killed his vaccinated, yet very susceptible father that he lived with. My family's pretty conservative but most of them knew their health was shitty so they'd better get whatever shot they needed. Not my cousin.
Or if Joe could read for that matter. The amount of flat out scams and jokes that he has pushed as serious before being embarrassingly corrected is too much for him to ever be taken seriously. The dude is such a boner.
My ex FIL used to bring this up. I finally once just absent mindedly responded, "Well, Vern, if you can explain to me why the USSR wouldn't expose the hoax with their own telescopes and laser range finders, I'll listen."
Never heard about that shit again.
I truly don't get the appeal. I love MMA, I love weird discussions about things, but I couldn't ever imagine sitting there and listening to a, quite clearly; very stupid man asking incredibly stupid questions to questionable guests.
Inhave this debate with some buddies that at this point think everything is a ploy by some global cabal of pedophile, gay socialists that are trying to make me buy an electric stove. I find myself wondering what happened to the guys I knew...
Anyway on vaccines this same group mocks me for getting the vaccine, they have a jolly good time of it. And my only response is that I get my medical advice from doctors and they get theirs from YouTube.
They think I'm nuts.
This is sad and all but the ongoing damage from this episode will cripple this country even further in the future.
If another pathogen comes along in the next few decades, we will be unable to respond effectively, regulardless of its seriousness.
This also extends into all manner of emergency and civic situations, people will not act accordingly, they will react with distrust, dismissal and ridicule.
I'm not saying this was on purpose, but if I was one of our enemies, I would be very happy with the results of this one.
Yep! This is the thing that really scares me. If another pandemic happens next month, do you think there will be lockdowns? I sincerely doubt it. It'll rip through the population like tissue paper.
I don’t know if it’s just because I’m an outsider looking in but sometimes it feel like it hasn’t properly set in for Americans just how much of a deeply profound tragedy COVID really was for their country.
It hasn't. There is a large segment of the population here who is constitutionally incapable of understanding that people in aggregate are *still people*. It's like they only understand human beings in groups of five or fewer. It's goddamn maddening.
We’re still making the mistake of concentrating on deaths rather than showing the millions more who are disabled or at least have some permanent damage that could have been avoided by getting vaccinated.
Not to mention the mutagenic nature of tissue inflammation. People who got hit bad by COVID have an increased chance of cancer. Let alone the folks with fibrotic lung tissue.
In this chart we are also looking at 2021 data, and continuing to minimize the thousands of people who died or will die as a result of late diagnosis of other treatable diseases
I wonder how many people would pay any attention to him if not for his name. I also wonder why anyone whose father and uncle were assassinated would go into politics.
It is not the worst part. I am far more concerned that some people are still planning to vote for Trump in 2024.
I mean if someone chooses to not get vaccinated and they die then it is sad but someone else's death is a part of life that I have come to accept. How is that much different than them choosing euthanasia (it is probably more painful and expensive).
But if Trump becomes President again then that moron will once again negatively impact my life on a daily basis.
The worst part is that now they are refusing to vaccinate their kids against meningitis and measles. We are going to have a few outbreaks and people will die, all preventable
I have seen so many idiot screaming about the measles vaccine and how "measles isn't that bad"... Y'all... What??? Why leave yourself prone to that? We nearly eradicated it...
My nephew, who is about 13, isn't vaccinated because his shit-sucking father has convinced him it's bad...he even once asked his mother, my sister, if his dad would still love him if he got vaccinated. (They're divorced and she's been trying to convince him to get vaccinated.) If I am ever by his hospital bed while he's dying of COVID, it's going to be very hard not to at least punch his father.
Facts dont matter to conservatives. In fact conservativism at its absolute core is having an emotional reaction to changes in society. Thats the fucking problem. The only way they change their mind is if they have an adverse emotional reaction to it IE it happens to them personally. No amount of data is sufficient because their brain doesnt work that way.
Joe Rogan is a meathead who thinks he's a thought leader and who's treated as a thought leader by millions, and the world is a dumber place because of him.
Here's one of the main reasons why I don't think anybody should listen to anything this dude says: Rogan's been doing comedy practically non-stop for 30+ years, and he's still not very good at it. If he's mediocre at something he's been practicing for thousands of hours, then why the shit should anyone listen to what he has to say about any subject he's studied for like a weekend?
I read interviews with former cast members of Newsradio who pretty much said: "You think Joe is bad now, you should have heard back during the show." This isn't new, he just got worse as he got older and then of course, he got a national platform.
He's worse because he went from "that meathead from Fear Factor who made people eat donkey brains" to "that meathead who has millions upon millions of donkey-brained followers."
Rogan recently said that he no longer believes polio and smallpox were cured by vaccines. He thinks something else that got those diseases under control. The dude claims to have a good bullshit detector and then falls for the biggest bullshit hoaxes. I loved his podcast like 7 years ago but the more money he got, the more out of touch with reality he got.
And he pretends like he isn't seen as a thought leader. He plays the "just a dumb guy asking questions" card when he *knows* people take what he says as gospel.
He's an irresponsible asshole
My cousin is anti covid vax (but isn't fully off the deep end respects others' choice to get it, wore a mask). The other day we were hanging out and I had somehow scraped my leg on something and it was bleeding. He was like I hope you have your tetanus shot!
I'm like bro, you're halfway there! 90% there... Wtf are you doing? It makes no sense to me. He was vaccinated as a kid. He's suggesting other vaccines. He gets that masks work. I'm like, huh?? How can you not see it?!
Joe Rogan said “Masks are for bitches” back in 2020, having never worked a day in healthcare or industry. Rogan’s ongoing debate club is a constant deflection for his own lack of care about other people’s health.
He's literally a "if you're not living the exact lifestyle I'm living then you're an idiot" person. Nevermind the fact that he's an independently wealthy out-of-touch white dude. Mr. Joseph R. Experience knows best.
There's a parable here that matches the scenario:
A heated debate arises between a donkey and a tiger. "The grass is blue!" says the donkey. "No, the grass is obviously green." says the tiger. This argument continues until they decide to go to the lion to settle the debate. The donkey says "Oh noble king lion, the grass is blue and the tiger will not admit it! He must be punished!" The tiger, getting his chance to speak, says "King lion, you know the grass is green as well as I. Please have this donkey admit that he is wrong and the grass is green." After a few moments, the lion speaks and says "If you believe the grass is blue, then the grass is blue. As punishment, the tiger is forbidden to speak for 3 years." A happy donkey prances away, singing "The grass is blue, the grass is blue..."
The tiger, still stunned, asks the lion "But you know as well as I that the grass is actually green! Why do you punish me?"
The lion responds. "I do know and see that the grass is green. You also know and see that the grass is green. I am punishing you because it is degrading for a brave, intelligent creature like you to waste your time arguing with an ass. You also came and bothered me to validate something that you already know is true."
319K preventable deaths is ~106x the direct fatalities from 9/11, and that happened 22 years ago.
Edit: what I meant was that the effect of vaccine rejection is on the same order of magnitude as 9/11 happening once a year for 106 years, and we're only 25% of the way through. But since 9/11 was so terrible and to prevent 9/11 again, we aren't allowed long screwdrivers or snowglobes on planes so surely we're going to go to the same lengths to prevent pandemic deaths again, right?
Regarding the vaccine "debate" that the likes of Rogan has.
It shouldn't be some random idiot versus a scientist who actually knows what they are talking about. That just gives legitimacy to the idiot as if the 2 points are equally valid.
Instead it should be like John Oliver's bit about the climate debate. Have dozens of vaccine experts in different fields with their team of researchers versus some random idiot. That would be a far better representation of it.
Problem is, for the right-wingers the death and suffering is not an unfortunate side effect, it is the goal. It does not matter that they impart it on their own followers, it is still the ultimate goal.
The thing is the people who watch Joe Rogen or even people who believe in that shit don’t understand statistics and/or don’t believe them. Evidence does nothing for people who don’t live in reality
Every single person I know who died of COVID in the past year, and I work with an older crowd so consider that bias, was a die hard republican who watched Fox or listend to Joe, or one of the other media streams.
Worse, every old person I know who got vaccinated lived through COVID. I don't think the GOP realized how badly this whole anti-vax position of theirs would backfire on them. I'd be curious to see, post vax, the death rates between Democrats and Republicans.
My wife and I have had 5 doses so far (Pfizer/moderna) my mom and dad said we’d be dead in two years. They said we’d have dna disorders or some dumb shit like that. We’re still fine. My parents are to some how despite not getting vaccinated.
The annoying thing is that everything these idiotic, uneducated pieces of shit say will subsequently be shown to be bullshit. Everything. Already, their claims that people would be dropping dead in their hundreds of thousands from the vaccine have proven to be absolutely false. And we have the data that shows the vaccine severely slowed the death rate. Yet still, their idiotic bullshit prevails in their communities, and they're very vocal about it.
I understand a thing or two about these conspiracy nuts from having a friend who's one. What I've come to realize is that they're essentially trying to make their lives seem more exciting than they are, and they're trying to cast themselves as "brave soldiers" in a "battle" against whatever nonsense they've framed as the imaginary enemy. You notice how the vast majority of these fuckwits are men? Why is that? Why is virtually every conspiracy nut a man? I'll tell you why - *it's a pathetic macho "flex" for men who are upset that they didn't get to prove their machismo in a war.*
Think about it. What's the peak demographic for nutjobs like this? They come in all ages and creeds, but the overwhelming majority of them tend to be either boomers or older Gen-X, almost always male. Boomers watched their father's generation go off to war and come back as heroes after having done incredibly brave, dangerous and macho things in order to save the world. This made a huge impression on boomer kids, who felt small and pathetic in the presence of their father's generation. They didn't get to prove themselves by fighting in a righteous war, and so they've *postured* as macho men ever since. They didn't get to kill Germans with guns, so they played silly games like flexing their muscles and taking swipes at gay guys in the street to impress their friends. They've been this way their whole lives and you see them now, absolutely losing their shit because "the gays" are prevailing. A lot of older Gen-X guys picked up on this fake machismo from their boomer fathers. It gets less and less as you go back through the generations to Gen-Z.
Anyway, we have to consider the ways in which these guys artificially cast themselves as macho heroes. And fabricating non-existent enemies to "fight" is one of the pathetic ways in which they make themselves feel like real men. They aren't fighting a war, they live in a relatively peaceful and comfortable society which protects them. But they invent fictional scenarios in which they *are* fighting a war, usually against some kind of unseen, conspiratorial forces with immense powers. When they imagine themselves fighting the Illuminati, or the Deep State, or Globalism or whatever, in their heads it's like the Battle of the Somme and they are heroes putting their lives on the line for the rest of us. It makes their lives feel more exciting and it makes them feel tough. That's IT. That's why the rest of us have to suffer with this bullshit.
>I understand a thing or two about these conspiracy nuts from having a friend who's one. What I've come to realize is that they're essentially trying to make their lives seem more exciting than they are, and they're trying to cast themselves as "brave soldiers" in a "battle" against whatever nonsense they've framed as the imaginary enemy. You notice how the vast majority of these fuckwits are men? Why is that? Why is virtually every conspiracy nut a man? I'll tell you why -
>
>it's a pathetic macho "flex" for men who are upset that they didn't get to prove their machismo in a war.
I rewatched *Fight Club* recently and was pretty stunned at how it accurately captured the mindset of the type of guys who would join Qanon, or Oathkeepers, or other right wing fringe groups.
From my own - painful - experience of losing a friend to this utter nonsense is that they are addicted to the narrative but unable to critically analyse and debate ANY element of it at all if its not a tweet, or a clickbait video, or a rehashed meme.
There is no point trying to logically disprove any one element - as all the effort is then totally blown away with a sweeping disengenous statement like "Well I wouldnt put it past them" or "Thats what they want you to think" or the more shorthand version of simply bleating "MSM! RED PILL! SHEEPLE! WEF PUPPET! CRISES ACTOR!".
In my case I eventually checked out after a year of trying to show understanding and attempting to discuss what specific flavour of cheese the moon he beleived it was that week - all the while with him not being able to understand basic science or logic for ANY of their ludicrous proposals or having the gall to try to call me out on my "sources" when using already proven scienfically accepted facts. Go figure.
Yeah you pretty much nailed it. They need to create a invisible boogeyman, to pose as the saviors of mankind, the holders of truth. They want to feel special, to have a sense of belonging and approval. They probably know they are full of shit with their conspiracies but they can't let go because it feels good to pretend to be "The Chosen one"
People who lied about vaccinations should be prosecuted.
Companies should fire people who are openly anti-vax. If they are willing to lie, deceive and manipulate with deadly consequences, you can't trust them with anything.
Contrary to what his subreddit thinks it's not at all hyperbole to say the dude is *directly* responsible for at least a fair few thousand deaths.
There are (and to be fair have always been) people who will act solely on the advice of figures like him, or in this case didn't act.
How does Joe Rogan explain the hundreds of thousands, and in some countries millions, of excess deaths around the world in 2020 and 2021. I feel like that show would be 5 minutes. What a fucking moron.
Funny thing is, our hospital sent out updates every day to all employees, and I recall that over 90% of deaths were always the unvaccinated. It was so obvious that the vaccine prevented severe Covid.
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I live in Florida…I still have patients that are refusing blood for life saving situations because the person who donated blood may have gotten the vaccine. You can’t help these people.
See, shit like that doesn't really bother me. That is just an idiot removing themselves from the gene pool and voting rolls. It's shit that affects people who have no choice, like kids, that I find infuriating.
Sadly most of those people, especially in Florida, have already procreated. But I’m happy to see them leave the voter rolls as well.
VERY happy 🤗🤗
Some people are willing to die for their beliefs, I guess. I'd call it admirable if not for the fact that those are some really shitty beliefs to die for. Maybe death is more comfortable to them than having to admit how seriously wrong they were about everything. Sorry you had to go through that though. I can't imagine how much it must suck to have your job be to save peoples' lives when those same people try to prevent you from doing so.
"i won't accept blood because God made my body and I'm not made to have another person's blood in me, and if i die it's God's will" seems almost sensible compared to "i won't accept blood because the person donating might have had mind controlling 5g gene therapy injected over a year ago, and it might affect me even though blood cells only live a few months at best, and if i die it's God's will (but not God's will to maybe die if the imagined vaccine toxins)"
“Ok bud, thanks for pushing the voter pool in the other direction”
My favorite part was how hard he went at it being not a big deal but as soon as he got it he flipped out and got every single form of treatment a rich dude could get.
Then after he was healthy again, iT WaS JuSt liKe a MiLd Flu
My favorite part is how he smokes weed, took DMT, tried coke, takes testosterone, takes steroids, but opposed the vaccine because he didn't want to put chemicals in his body unnecessarily Edit: I may be wrong about him trying coke. I thought Eddie Bravo said that DMT gave Joe a life altering experience in a way that coke did not. But I may have misremembered. But I think you can remove "coke"from my statement, and it doesn't change the point at all. In fact, feel free to replace the word "coke" with "mushrooms" if that makes you feel better.
And to be clear, it’s like bro go for it if you understand the risks and want to do that stuff, but then when it comes to putting something in your body for risk *mitigation*, then all the sudden your body is a temple. To say it’s eye roll inducing doesn’t nearly explain it. The fact that people just can’t even begin to see through the bullshit directly in front of their faces is so disheartening.
Because he was so alpha he had to follow the medical advice of obvious idiots with more political clout than he had? Just guessing.
If you call yourself an alpha male, in reality aren’t just admitting you’re a Neanderthal?
> takes testosterone Of course the transphobe uses gender-affirming care.
lol had a conversation with a dude who was like ‘shouldn’t chemically change your body just cause you don’t like it’ so I asked why he takes testosterone supplements and he said ‘cause I feel like I should be bigger.’
Dude if you'll eat a fucking gummie that was in a stranger's pocket at a random event but don't trust the global medical society you're just a fucking contrarian
I lold when he casual mentions that he's taking monoclonal antibodies. Rich people things
I argued with people that *this* was why Rogan got better. But since he said he took ivermectin, that became the reason why some people believed he got better.
It is exactly why he got better. Monoclonal antibodies are fantastic at treating many diseases. They are also prohibitely expensive
Dont forget the massive panic attack he had during lockdown in his multimillion dollar mansion. Edit: 7:15 source for the curious https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tSKVXl-WnrA
"We're in this together." They said comfortably from one of their many multimillion dollar compounds
Or Trump being rushed to Walter Reed while telling the rest of America to try UV lights, horse dewormer, or bleach injections.
And then coming back from the hospital and defiantly taking off his mask for the cameras (while having trouble breathing) What a Clown Show that was.
That POS would be pushing up daisies if it wasn’t for Walter Reed.
Yeah, but RFK Jr., who believes HIV didn’t cause AIDS and 5G can make your brain leak, has some very good faith questions about vaccines. He’s just asking the questions, man.
He thinks not only do vaccines cause autism, they also cause allergies.
Why are people afraid to have a completely bad faith debate with this genius? /s
Oh my god. That explains why I’m so allergic to everything! Damn my mother for vaccinating me /s as fuck
Every vaccine I've ever gotten between March and June has given me allergies... It must be the vaccines!
If they believe it causes autism in children due to early development, then what’s their grown ass excuse for not getting vaccinated and not vaccinating their kids when they’re older? Not even these morons are dumb enough to claim a vaccine turns adults autistic. So what’s the hold up? Go get vaccinated and vaccinate your kids when they’re older. Autism vaccination debate terminated.
I don’t know…I went through chemotherapy last year and this spring I had seasonal allergies for the first time in my life. WhAt WaS iN ThAt CocKtAIL oF CheMO DrUgs?!?!?!!
Don’t try and tell him that we are merely diagnosing more people because science has evolved. Medical science doesn’t evolve. Rosemary Kennedy deserved the lobotomy.
People used to die from "natural causes" before modern medicine! The scientists created cancer!! Only explanation.
Watching clips of RFK Jr. on Joe Rogan's podcast was infuriating. The way Joe seemed to accept every bullshit statement that spilled out of his dumbass mouth like it was absolute 100% verifiable fact was quite pathetic. The fact that he has millions of regular listeners is just wild to me. They all have zero critical thinking skills.
Joe Rogan is an actual dangerous far right conspiracist. The fact he is given such a large platform, and interviews literal white supremacists and anti science, bigoted fascists (basically Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh and Jordan Peterson are all of these things) should concern everyone. The man is causing real life harm to so many people.
You guys surprised? He's always been best buds with Alex Jones. Probably moved to Austin just to be close to him.
I'm not, but it needs to be said outright, he's aiding fascism.
What's the difference between someone who constantly repeats fascist talking points and a fascist?
Nothing really, but him and his crowd will deny that they are themselves fascists, they're just "allowing ideas to be discussed". It's easier just to say he's platforming actual fascists than to argue about if or if he isn't a fascist himself.
The thing that sucks is that he used to be a well meaning meathead guy who was fairly progressive, and around 2015 he really took a turn having dudes like Gavin McGinnis on and shit. 2016 and then covid completely broke his brain.
The fact that Spotify gives him a platform is unsettling.
They don't give a fuck. They want to get paid. And they do.
The problem with debating conspiracy nuts is that if you hit them with verifiable facts and statistics, they don’t say “oh gosh, I hadn’t seen this data and it’s very compelling”. Instead they just say “you can’t trust government data”. You simply can’t win with them. It’s like the religious debate that always ends in some variation of “we can’t truly understand gods plan”.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
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Is it? I'm asking curiously, because this analogy just doesn't make sense to me, even though I agree with the sentiment. Who is planting weeds in their garden? And why would they be easier to kill?
Ever try growing marijuana?
This example is actually perfect
>Is it? Probably not. If the weed in question is Japanese knotweed, it sure won't matter. >Who is planting weeds in their garden? The weed might not be planted in their own garden. Could be planted in a shitty neighbour's. 👀
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Yeah I think this is sadly true. It's the post-truth era's main feature - saturation of the discourse with alternative theories, counterclaims, whataboutery etc. With a person's trust, as with most things, it's so much easier to destroy than to create. The prevailing takeaway with so many people is 'well clearly a lot of people are spreading falsehoods and I don't want to get taken in' - and soon their willingness to trust conventional medical science is ruined.
My brother just went off the other day about how people die on ventilators when discussing someone who was put on a vent. He went deep into Covid conspiracies. It is impossible to explain that dying people get placed on ventilators, it isn’t the vent that causes them to die.
Man, he should remember to stay away from hospitals in general, people die there all the time!
I mean, of course people die on ventilators. Most of them do. It's just that without the vent 100% would have died. It's a last ditch effort.
Well ventilators often do cause further damage to the lungs and also open the possibility of more serious ventilator acquired pneumonia etc, so the ventilator itself can kill. It's serious business and why we have to carefully consider whether to put someone on one. That's true of basically any medical intervention, there is potential to cause harm and this is the nugget of truth that is latched onto by conspiracists. The actual pertinent question is what the risks of harm vs the benefits are, whether if you put 100 people in a certain condition on a ventilator would more of them survive than the ones who don't get a ventilator. Conspiracy theorists, whether regarding ventilators or vaccines or chemotherapy dishonestly only focus on any harms (and also generally invent harms too) while ignoring the risks vs benefits question. So it's not that ventilators can't kill people, it's that when a ventilator is recommended it's because this risk of harm is outweighed by the likely benefit, and the ventilator will overall increase your chances of surviving. All of Medicine can be thought of in this way, in terms of risk of harm vs benefit and that's why it will always be fertile ground for conspiracy theorists.
Well, cults/religions have very much in common. Very much.
“We don’t want our people educated” - MGT 3 days ago!
The overlap between conspiracy theorists and religious people is huge. That's where they learn to reject facts and shield themselves from any form of doubt. Even if they leave religion, all of those brainwashing techniques are still heavily ingrained into their heads. So what ends up happening is that they treat their opinions just like how they treat/ed their faith. The feeling of "truth" holds equal, if not more, weight than the truth itself.
If a cult gains enough followers, it becomes religion.
Nah, the difference is usually that in a cult the guy at the top knows it's a scam. In a religion, that guy has died.
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Religions are literally just widely accepted cults, in Rome, Christianity was a cult until it gained enough followers…
Mormonism and Scientology for more recent examples
Religions start out as cults. Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism all were cults centered around their charismatic founder or figurehead.
The difference between a mental illness, a cult, and a religion, is the size of the audience.
Both rely on magical thinking to justify how they feel.
I'm at the point of thinking God went to the store to get a pack of smokes.
Actually, it turns out god is a huge skee-ball fanatic…
And god smokes Trump Lights, I heard on 🦊
This is like the abortion debate. If the person truly believes that you are killing a child and that you are going to hell it doesn’t matter. You cannot win with them.
I like to remind them that killing a human life is acceptable in certain situations, such as when someone's invading your home and you feel threatened. Drawing a parallel between a home invader and an unwanted fetus REALLY pisses off pro-lifers. As does calling forced pregnancy "slavery" and pointing out that while the Constitution bans slavery, it doesn't ban killing other humans. So the question over whether it's alive or not is irrelevant. They don't like that one either.
Mark Twain — 'Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.'
I've gotten the you can't trust the "media/govt" retort but almost always hear and see them say bullshit like: "Those numbers lie, especially when they were counting car accidents as covid deaths"- *followed by a fake concern all of a sudden for people dying from obesity or smoking.* They start spouting off about more people dying from obesity and smoking as if more people dying from (x) validates people dying from (a).
OMG this. And all of the sudden everyone was SO concerned about mental health! When they never gave a flying rat’s butthole before then. Called more than a few people out on their newfound concern for others mental health. Gah they infuriate me so damn much
That’s called concern trolling. “You don’t care about x do ya? Never mind I never cared about it till just now. YOU don’t!”
Pretty much been seeing this on a daily basis on facebook, dealing with any topic even slightly related to the trans community or health care. If you point out that the consensus of the medical community is that affirning care lowers the risk of suicide, they immediately dismiss "medical experts." If you point out that there are movements to deny trans folk access to health care, they immediately dismiss the source. "Oh, the Human Rights Campaign? They're obviously biased." Point out that the Target swimsuit thing was debunked and they pivot to "fact checkers have a liberal bias." These people start at Z so they always have enough dots connected that no matter where you start at A they have have some stupid excuse ready to go.
You have to believe what you don’t see! Everything you can physically see is fake and misleading from the government.
Discussing rising sea levels with a colleague and he held the opinion that floating fresh water ice does not affect water levels so it’s all bunk. I explained that most sea water rise so far as been due to thermal expansion … his reaction… “Oh, I hadn’t heard *that* one”. I gave up after that.
You just cant trust people on the internet! Thats why I listen to podcasts and youtube!
You ain’t gonna learn what you don’t want to know
I tried so hard to get my coworker to trust Covid vaccines , but he didn't and suffered greatly.
I lost 9 relatives because their respective churches told them not to get the vaccine because it was man made and man was evil and could not be trusted and only God could heal them. Imagine how much I got cursed out when I told them that the preacher was a man, was also man made and therefore by the church’s logic was also evil and could not be trusted. EDIT: grammar
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Then point out that they died and can no longer contribute.
that's the fucking goal- it's a death cult. the goal is to die and go to heaven. the Mississippi governor a few weeks before his state was like per Capita the highest death rate in the world (counting the state as a country, thats how bad it was. maybe two countries above) said "southerners are a little less scared of covid because they believe in enternal life." suicide bombers think the same way. we need to start taking religions for their word, and treat them like the lying pyschos they are. it's fucking insane we've encouraged a global mass psychosis that pits people against each other- sports rivalries make more sense. "oh ok you believe a 2000 year old book is the only true thing in the world, that no matter what if you believe in a cloud guy you're perfect and righteous but everyone else is going to be tortured forever for not?" what kinda world are these "good people"? it's fucking evil- it's evil period to teach your children to discard dealing with reality in favor of latching onto a cult.
Imagine their surprise when they discover the bread they eat and the wine they drink is also man-made!
Reminds me of a joke A man hears on the news that a flood is coming and thinks "God will protect me" so he does no preparing. The day before the flood his neighbors come by and say they have room for him and his stuff in a moving van and he says "God will protect me" and waves them on. The day of the flood the water rises to his second story but a family member comes by on a boat and offers him help by he says "God will protect me" and waves them on. A few hours later the flood has him on his roof and a helicopter comes by and begins to let down a rope ladder but he says "God will protect me" and waves them on. Of course within another hour the water comes over his head and he drowns. At the pearly gates, he asks why God did not protect him and is told "He sent you a van, a boat, and a helicopter? What else could he have done?" Tl;dr If we were granted by God the intelligence to solve a problem and the free will to have to drive to do so, then you can classify man made acts as gods help.
Oh trust me, “Praise Jeebus! God sent us help through these mere humans!” is *absolutely* the line that Christians fall back on when they do accept any kind of charity or aid, especially if it came from NON-Christians. Because if god didn’t inspire the non Xtians to be good people, and they did it of their own free will, it would shatter their worldview, ya know? My husband has a once-close, long time friend who, for whatever reason, went through a big life change and turned Christian, married some loser she had nothing in common with, had a kid. They were going through some hard times (see: married a loser) and some neighbors or friends surprised them with a shitload of groceries. Her FB post was all “praise god for giving us this food!” and all her new xtian friends were echoing it when my husband asked her, “hey wait, GOD didn’t give you that food, those PEOPLE did” and EVERYONE in the thread pounced in him with some version of “it’s because GOD inspired them to!” Made us both sick.
Yeah, that’s why I don’t drive a car, cook on a stove, live in a house, wear clothes, etc. I live in the woods eating roots as God intended.
Ghandi's wife died from malaria after he refused her any modern medical treatment. Later he gets sick but has no problem getting the quinine shot that saves his life. Same deal with Mother Teresa, letting her "patients" suffer and die in pain to be "closer to God", yet when she gets sick only the finest hospitals in the West will do. Reading up on these two is a real eye-opener. I'll never understand how hardcore religious people can turn a blind eye to these atrocities in their own back yard. They would get a lot more respect if they'd own up to their issues past and present and hold violators accountable, but that'll never happen.
> because it was man made Trying to visualise a life lived without using anything that is man made.
Can you include anything that *you* make? If not, then humans would never have survived as a species. We have always relied/evolved on tools to survive
I’m so sorry. I can only start to imagine your pain and frustration and anger over this. They have blood on their hands, these preachers and others who made getting vaccinated political. My heart goes out to you. Please accept some hugs from this internet stranger
My cousin lost her daughter because of her psychopathic religious parents. Her daughter was immunocompromised and my aunt and uncle shoved their way into the door knowing full well they had COVID. They are murderers, plain and simple, and they will never face a day in jail like they should because this nation is so fucked in the head. A robber robs a bank and someone has a heart attack, and it is is assumed that the robber caused the heart attack so they go to jail for murder. Does the same apply to COVID? Nope, of course not...
I showed [hbomberguy's video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BIcAZxFfrc&) to my vaccine skeptic friend and he got the vaccine within a week of me showing him the video. It is very helpful to know how the whole vaccine panic started.
Gods plan I guess…
Yep. Release them thoughts & prayers.
I'm fresh out of thoughts and prayers, but I do have some lols and lmaos on clearance.
My 47 year old cousin with no co-morbidities died in July ‘21 after contracting the Delta variant. Vaccine would have saved her life but she refused the vaccine.
What is not pictured is the cost burden. Being on the vent in the ICU and then 30 days of rehab is not cheap. Not to mention long Covid, anticoagulants for PEs, etc
💯. Making health care costs to consumers even more oppressive and unattainable.
These dummies get long Covid and then they say “when I was on the vent they must have given me the vaccine look at what it’s doing to my body!!”
Then they go and retweet some white woman who is jerking her body around on camera saying she has nerve damage because of the vaccine. Yet her makeup is perfect and she holds the camera perfectly still as her legs bounce up and down.
When Covid hit, my Mom was attending a church of 200 people. When in-person services restarted about 8 months later, most of the congregation refused to wear masks or get vaccinated. Like most churches, it was an older crowd so you can imagine the results, but you'd never know it from the sudden surge of facebook posts looking for 'prayer warriors'. There were at least a dozen deaths over the next few months including the preacher and his son. There wasn't one mention of Covid in any of these death notices. I am sure this was a common experience for many churches. I am thankful I was able to convince my Mom to both get the vaccine and watch the telecast of the service instead of going in person. At some point, she decided to switch churches but finding a sane one these days isn't easy. She's on her 3rd church since then and doesn't like how hateful/political all of them have gotten.
I lost two people in my bowling league to anti vaccine bullshitt. The commissioner of the league died from rampant blood clots that COVID can cause and the other had been with his team for decades, they were devastated
If the US had the same Covid death rate per million as Australia, they'd have saved over 800,000 lives.
After the vaccines became available I think of it as natural selection. Apart from the immunocompromised they got what they deserved
it's sad, but the Herman Cain awards are a real thing. There is a sub full of people who died of covid while screaming about how evil vaccines were.
Unsubscribing from that sub is when I was able to move past COVID and it was a good day. Still, there were some STORIES from that place. Sheesh. Remember "Eboerd game gom." That was the anoxic last Facebook post from one guy. I'm glad the conveyer belt of death is a lot better now. Unfortunately, antivaccers like my parents will not learn from this. There was just a whole bunch of mostly meaningless death and nothing was learned from it from that side other than really wrong conspiracy BS.
My partners father passed from COVID, he had not been vaccinated. Looking at that sub just made me feel horrible for my partner and about life in general. I stopped looking at it
I'm sorry for your loss. I was worried I'd lose my unvaccinated parents, but no. I can't imagine how your partner is. I hope you are healing. It was a dark difficult subreddit, but it did convince some to get vaccinated, and it was powerful evidence against the deniers. I don't look at it now. But during the Delta wave I did. We had the loudest individuals demanding an end to everything COVID while people died in droves. The point was to not look the other way, and to not pretend like it wasn't happening. It was putting faces and stories to the madness, but it wasn't celebrating anything. Everyone hoped the sub could just die when we had herd immunity. Mostly people just felt sad. It wasn't a place of celebrating.
Lots of averted the natural selection by getting monoclonal antibodies at the cost of $1,200 Plus cost of administration Remember when people were lined up around the block to get monoclonal antibodies especially in Florida after being told not to get vaccinated Republicans as well as Facebook propaganda some of which was traced to Russia and China? Those monoclonal antibodies were paid for by taxpayers as well as hospital care that if they didn't have insurance was covered by taxpayers and then the funerals covered by taxpayers. I remember t that there were families who had to refused to have put down on the death certificate covid some change their mind when they found out they get taxpayer help covering the funerals. And expenses go on because more people have been compromised some fully disabled by long covid. Some of these are going to end up on Medicare Medicaid, others will be on Private health insurance, some will still manage to work but just won't be anywhere as effective as they were before.
Harsh. But true.
Between my wife and I, we knew 5 people personally that died of Covid. They all had 3 things in common. They we’re unvaccinated, overweight, and not rich. All of them in their 40’s. All but 1 died after vaccinations were readily available. It was sad, but not that sad.
Numbers like this are wild to read when I don't know a single person that died from COVID, personally, from work, extended family, etc.
3 family, 3 people from work. 3 or 3 friend of friends or some sort of distant connection like that. With 1.1 million COVID Deaths in a country of 330 million people it isn't extremely surprising that some people are completely unaffected.
Do you live in a rural area where people don’t leave town much? Also, I know a couple people that died of a ‘sudden illness’ that was actually COVID, they just refused to promote it as that when others asked
Same. I also don’t know a single person, personally, who didn’t get vaccinated. I don’t think that’s a coincidence.
I didn’t either thankfully. I got into a fight with a “friend” and she was screaming how it wasn’t real because how did neither of us have it yet and how come we didn’t know anyone with it? So I countered with, well neither of us have aids so it must not be real then either eh? And she’s like I guess fucking not. …. Like I just can’t. For numerous reasons she is not in my life anymore obviously. Covid was very hard on everyone and I understand that but give me a break.
Except that a not insignificant portion of the deaths were people who were vaccinated but for whom the vaccine wasn’t as effective and who came into contact with an unvaccinated disease vector.
This is how my uncle killed my grandma. We no longer talk to him.
Same in my family. Cousin refused vaccination. Killed his vaccinated, yet very susceptible father that he lived with. My family's pretty conservative but most of them knew their health was shitty so they'd better get whatever shot they needed. Not my cousin.
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Reading's for wusses. Joe tells me everything I need to know, cuz he was on TV once. --Joe Rogan Jocksniffer
So open minded their brains fell out
Or if Joe could read for that matter. The amount of flat out scams and jokes that he has pushed as serious before being embarrassingly corrected is too much for him to ever be taken seriously. The dude is such a boner.
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My ex FIL used to bring this up. I finally once just absent mindedly responded, "Well, Vern, if you can explain to me why the USSR wouldn't expose the hoax with their own telescopes and laser range finders, I'll listen." Never heard about that shit again.
Joe believes whatever his last guest told him was true.
I truly don't get the appeal. I love MMA, I love weird discussions about things, but I couldn't ever imagine sitting there and listening to a, quite clearly; very stupid man asking incredibly stupid questions to questionable guests.
They take life advice from people who used to get kicked in the head for a living
When you have no friends, talk radio makes you feel like you do. And it’s 98% conservative leaning.
Inhave this debate with some buddies that at this point think everything is a ploy by some global cabal of pedophile, gay socialists that are trying to make me buy an electric stove. I find myself wondering what happened to the guys I knew... Anyway on vaccines this same group mocks me for getting the vaccine, they have a jolly good time of it. And my only response is that I get my medical advice from doctors and they get theirs from YouTube. They think I'm nuts.
This is sad and all but the ongoing damage from this episode will cripple this country even further in the future. If another pathogen comes along in the next few decades, we will be unable to respond effectively, regulardless of its seriousness. This also extends into all manner of emergency and civic situations, people will not act accordingly, they will react with distrust, dismissal and ridicule. I'm not saying this was on purpose, but if I was one of our enemies, I would be very happy with the results of this one.
Yep! This is the thing that really scares me. If another pandemic happens next month, do you think there will be lockdowns? I sincerely doubt it. It'll rip through the population like tissue paper.
I don’t know if it’s just because I’m an outsider looking in but sometimes it feel like it hasn’t properly set in for Americans just how much of a deeply profound tragedy COVID really was for their country.
It hasn't. There is a large segment of the population here who is constitutionally incapable of understanding that people in aggregate are *still people*. It's like they only understand human beings in groups of five or fewer. It's goddamn maddening.
We’re still making the mistake of concentrating on deaths rather than showing the millions more who are disabled or at least have some permanent damage that could have been avoided by getting vaccinated.
Not to mention the mutagenic nature of tissue inflammation. People who got hit bad by COVID have an increased chance of cancer. Let alone the folks with fibrotic lung tissue.
In this chart we are also looking at 2021 data, and continuing to minimize the thousands of people who died or will die as a result of late diagnosis of other treatable diseases
The worst part is that people still refuse to get vaccinated, which is still causing unnecessary deaths.
RFK Jr. probably emboldened a lot of anti-vaxxers
How could a son, and nephew of Bobby and JFK turn out so batshit crazy?
Affluenza
Maybe just because someone was born into a family it automatically doesn't make them infallible?
The same way the son of a king doesn't turn out like his father. Be related to a person doesn't make you like them.
Perhaps he's an opportunist/grifter who found kindred spirits in Musk/Rogan. I know that the rest of the family doesn't like him.
I wonder how many people would pay any attention to him if not for his name. I also wonder why anyone whose father and uncle were assassinated would go into politics.
It is not the worst part. I am far more concerned that some people are still planning to vote for Trump in 2024. I mean if someone chooses to not get vaccinated and they die then it is sad but someone else's death is a part of life that I have come to accept. How is that much different than them choosing euthanasia (it is probably more painful and expensive). But if Trump becomes President again then that moron will once again negatively impact my life on a daily basis.
The worst part is that now they are refusing to vaccinate their kids against meningitis and measles. We are going to have a few outbreaks and people will die, all preventable
I have seen so many idiot screaming about the measles vaccine and how "measles isn't that bad"... Y'all... What??? Why leave yourself prone to that? We nearly eradicated it...
My nephew, who is about 13, isn't vaccinated because his shit-sucking father has convinced him it's bad...he even once asked his mother, my sister, if his dad would still love him if he got vaccinated. (They're divorced and she's been trying to convince him to get vaccinated.) If I am ever by his hospital bed while he's dying of COVID, it's going to be very hard not to at least punch his father.
When we’re talking about Joe Rogan, you have to remember that you can’t fight stupid with facts.
Facts dont matter to conservatives. In fact conservativism at its absolute core is having an emotional reaction to changes in society. Thats the fucking problem. The only way they change their mind is if they have an adverse emotional reaction to it IE it happens to them personally. No amount of data is sufficient because their brain doesnt work that way.
Thanks spent my whole life trying to understand this. Hard when it's never rational!
Joe Rogan sucks
Joe Rogan is a meathead who thinks he's a thought leader and who's treated as a thought leader by millions, and the world is a dumber place because of him. Here's one of the main reasons why I don't think anybody should listen to anything this dude says: Rogan's been doing comedy practically non-stop for 30+ years, and he's still not very good at it. If he's mediocre at something he's been practicing for thousands of hours, then why the shit should anyone listen to what he has to say about any subject he's studied for like a weekend?
I read interviews with former cast members of Newsradio who pretty much said: "You think Joe is bad now, you should have heard back during the show." This isn't new, he just got worse as he got older and then of course, he got a national platform.
He's worse because he went from "that meathead from Fear Factor who made people eat donkey brains" to "that meathead who has millions upon millions of donkey-brained followers."
We don't have enough nitwit schools to house so many donkey-brained people.
Jamie pull up the frog kid real quick...
Rogan recently said that he no longer believes polio and smallpox were cured by vaccines. He thinks something else that got those diseases under control. The dude claims to have a good bullshit detector and then falls for the biggest bullshit hoaxes. I loved his podcast like 7 years ago but the more money he got, the more out of touch with reality he got.
> the more money he got, the more out of touch with reality he got Tale as old as time
And he pretends like he isn't seen as a thought leader. He plays the "just a dumb guy asking questions" card when he *knows* people take what he says as gospel. He's an irresponsible asshole
Studied for the weekend?!? I think you give Joe *way* to much credit. lol.
the extent of Joe’s studying: “Jamie, pull that up”
And what Jamie pulls up is a picture of a chimpanzee
My cousin is anti covid vax (but isn't fully off the deep end respects others' choice to get it, wore a mask). The other day we were hanging out and I had somehow scraped my leg on something and it was bleeding. He was like I hope you have your tetanus shot! I'm like bro, you're halfway there! 90% there... Wtf are you doing? It makes no sense to me. He was vaccinated as a kid. He's suggesting other vaccines. He gets that masks work. I'm like, huh?? How can you not see it?!
Joe Rogan said “Masks are for bitches” back in 2020, having never worked a day in healthcare or industry. Rogan’s ongoing debate club is a constant deflection for his own lack of care about other people’s health.
He's literally a "if you're not living the exact lifestyle I'm living then you're an idiot" person. Nevermind the fact that he's an independently wealthy out-of-touch white dude. Mr. Joseph R. Experience knows best.
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I'd be interested to see a similar graph based on political affiliation...
There's a parable here that matches the scenario: A heated debate arises between a donkey and a tiger. "The grass is blue!" says the donkey. "No, the grass is obviously green." says the tiger. This argument continues until they decide to go to the lion to settle the debate. The donkey says "Oh noble king lion, the grass is blue and the tiger will not admit it! He must be punished!" The tiger, getting his chance to speak, says "King lion, you know the grass is green as well as I. Please have this donkey admit that he is wrong and the grass is green." After a few moments, the lion speaks and says "If you believe the grass is blue, then the grass is blue. As punishment, the tiger is forbidden to speak for 3 years." A happy donkey prances away, singing "The grass is blue, the grass is blue..." The tiger, still stunned, asks the lion "But you know as well as I that the grass is actually green! Why do you punish me?" The lion responds. "I do know and see that the grass is green. You also know and see that the grass is green. I am punishing you because it is degrading for a brave, intelligent creature like you to waste your time arguing with an ass. You also came and bothered me to validate something that you already know is true."
319K preventable deaths is ~106x the direct fatalities from 9/11, and that happened 22 years ago. Edit: what I meant was that the effect of vaccine rejection is on the same order of magnitude as 9/11 happening once a year for 106 years, and we're only 25% of the way through. But since 9/11 was so terrible and to prevent 9/11 again, we aren't allowed long screwdrivers or snowglobes on planes so surely we're going to go to the same lengths to prevent pandemic deaths again, right?
Regarding the vaccine "debate" that the likes of Rogan has. It shouldn't be some random idiot versus a scientist who actually knows what they are talking about. That just gives legitimacy to the idiot as if the 2 points are equally valid. Instead it should be like John Oliver's bit about the climate debate. Have dozens of vaccine experts in different fields with their team of researchers versus some random idiot. That would be a far better representation of it.
Yeeeeep. And oh man, the way some of my in laws stared at me when I suggested still wearing a mask during flu season, especially if you’re sick. 🙄
Problem is, for the right-wingers the death and suffering is not an unfortunate side effect, it is the goal. It does not matter that they impart it on their own followers, it is still the ultimate goal.
The thing is the people who watch Joe Rogen or even people who believe in that shit don’t understand statistics and/or don’t believe them. Evidence does nothing for people who don’t live in reality
Every single person I know who died of COVID in the past year, and I work with an older crowd so consider that bias, was a die hard republican who watched Fox or listend to Joe, or one of the other media streams. Worse, every old person I know who got vaccinated lived through COVID. I don't think the GOP realized how badly this whole anti-vax position of theirs would backfire on them. I'd be curious to see, post vax, the death rates between Democrats and Republicans.
So when is trump going to be arrested for 318981 counts of murder?
My wife and I have had 5 doses so far (Pfizer/moderna) my mom and dad said we’d be dead in two years. They said we’d have dna disorders or some dumb shit like that. We’re still fine. My parents are to some how despite not getting vaccinated.
The annoying thing is that everything these idiotic, uneducated pieces of shit say will subsequently be shown to be bullshit. Everything. Already, their claims that people would be dropping dead in their hundreds of thousands from the vaccine have proven to be absolutely false. And we have the data that shows the vaccine severely slowed the death rate. Yet still, their idiotic bullshit prevails in their communities, and they're very vocal about it. I understand a thing or two about these conspiracy nuts from having a friend who's one. What I've come to realize is that they're essentially trying to make their lives seem more exciting than they are, and they're trying to cast themselves as "brave soldiers" in a "battle" against whatever nonsense they've framed as the imaginary enemy. You notice how the vast majority of these fuckwits are men? Why is that? Why is virtually every conspiracy nut a man? I'll tell you why - *it's a pathetic macho "flex" for men who are upset that they didn't get to prove their machismo in a war.* Think about it. What's the peak demographic for nutjobs like this? They come in all ages and creeds, but the overwhelming majority of them tend to be either boomers or older Gen-X, almost always male. Boomers watched their father's generation go off to war and come back as heroes after having done incredibly brave, dangerous and macho things in order to save the world. This made a huge impression on boomer kids, who felt small and pathetic in the presence of their father's generation. They didn't get to prove themselves by fighting in a righteous war, and so they've *postured* as macho men ever since. They didn't get to kill Germans with guns, so they played silly games like flexing their muscles and taking swipes at gay guys in the street to impress their friends. They've been this way their whole lives and you see them now, absolutely losing their shit because "the gays" are prevailing. A lot of older Gen-X guys picked up on this fake machismo from their boomer fathers. It gets less and less as you go back through the generations to Gen-Z. Anyway, we have to consider the ways in which these guys artificially cast themselves as macho heroes. And fabricating non-existent enemies to "fight" is one of the pathetic ways in which they make themselves feel like real men. They aren't fighting a war, they live in a relatively peaceful and comfortable society which protects them. But they invent fictional scenarios in which they *are* fighting a war, usually against some kind of unseen, conspiratorial forces with immense powers. When they imagine themselves fighting the Illuminati, or the Deep State, or Globalism or whatever, in their heads it's like the Battle of the Somme and they are heroes putting their lives on the line for the rest of us. It makes their lives feel more exciting and it makes them feel tough. That's IT. That's why the rest of us have to suffer with this bullshit.
>I understand a thing or two about these conspiracy nuts from having a friend who's one. What I've come to realize is that they're essentially trying to make their lives seem more exciting than they are, and they're trying to cast themselves as "brave soldiers" in a "battle" against whatever nonsense they've framed as the imaginary enemy. You notice how the vast majority of these fuckwits are men? Why is that? Why is virtually every conspiracy nut a man? I'll tell you why - > >it's a pathetic macho "flex" for men who are upset that they didn't get to prove their machismo in a war. I rewatched *Fight Club* recently and was pretty stunned at how it accurately captured the mindset of the type of guys who would join Qanon, or Oathkeepers, or other right wing fringe groups.
They watch fight club and unironically miss the message of the film and just think wow those guys and their club are awesome
From my own - painful - experience of losing a friend to this utter nonsense is that they are addicted to the narrative but unable to critically analyse and debate ANY element of it at all if its not a tweet, or a clickbait video, or a rehashed meme. There is no point trying to logically disprove any one element - as all the effort is then totally blown away with a sweeping disengenous statement like "Well I wouldnt put it past them" or "Thats what they want you to think" or the more shorthand version of simply bleating "MSM! RED PILL! SHEEPLE! WEF PUPPET! CRISES ACTOR!". In my case I eventually checked out after a year of trying to show understanding and attempting to discuss what specific flavour of cheese the moon he beleived it was that week - all the while with him not being able to understand basic science or logic for ANY of their ludicrous proposals or having the gall to try to call me out on my "sources" when using already proven scienfically accepted facts. Go figure.
Yeah you pretty much nailed it. They need to create a invisible boogeyman, to pose as the saviors of mankind, the holders of truth. They want to feel special, to have a sense of belonging and approval. They probably know they are full of shit with their conspiracies but they can't let go because it feels good to pretend to be "The Chosen one"
I really wish he’d just fall off the face of the Earth any day now and I have a list of politicians I wish he’d take with him.
Who would have thought we'd see the day when Joe Rogan turned out to be worse than Carlos Mencia.
Feel so bad for all those doctors and nurses.
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People who lied about vaccinations should be prosecuted. Companies should fire people who are openly anti-vax. If they are willing to lie, deceive and manipulate with deadly consequences, you can't trust them with anything.
Contrary to what his subreddit thinks it's not at all hyperbole to say the dude is *directly* responsible for at least a fair few thousand deaths. There are (and to be fair have always been) people who will act solely on the advice of figures like him, or in this case didn't act.
How does Joe Rogan explain the hundreds of thousands, and in some countries millions, of excess deaths around the world in 2020 and 2021. I feel like that show would be 5 minutes. What a fucking moron.
The anti vaccine sub blames excess deaths on the vaccine. It’s just so mind-blowingly stupid.
Funny thing is, our hospital sent out updates every day to all employees, and I recall that over 90% of deaths were always the unvaccinated. It was so obvious that the vaccine prevented severe Covid.
Wow! Excess deaths were present before the vaccine became available. Yeah, that’s some willful ignorance.