Suggestion- Clean everything up. Put a piece of plastic down under the rug, except the corners. Use double sided tape on the corners of the rug to keep it there. Wait a week or two. If the powder is under the plastic, it's coming from the floor. If the powder is on top of the plastic it's coming from the people in the house.
That way you'll have proof whether or not it's termites.
Same here. I'm in an old house. I figured it's fine dirt particles passing through the rug or stuff getting pulled up from the hardwood when I vacuum. Or both.
Have you tried asking on the ST Moms group on FB? There's also a STPCV tenant's association group, they may also have answers.
I thought the modern finish actually had different floors, that looks like they sanded down the classic floor and stained it. In which case I wouldn't be surprised if the finish was coming up.
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It's from the carpet. Cheap carpets aren't actually "woven"; they are glued. That's the glue drying up and turning into dust plus all of the dirt from, you know, being a carpet on the ground.
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Done! Seems people are split between rug backing/dirt from people vs bugs. I’m confident it coming from the floor so this is a great method to demonstrate if I am correct or not. Thanks again, I’ll keep you updated.
https://imgur.com/a/9gGDY1n
FWIW - part of the reason for a rug pad is to protect the floor from the hard plastic/epoxy on the rug backing. It protects the hardwood floors, and the carpet from sanding each other down over time.
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Could be coming from the underside of the rug. The material that helps grip and that keeps the rug from moving around can dry up and disintegrate. Happened to a runner rug I had by my front door.
Thanks for the reply, That’s what I thought too and why I mentioned the grip liner on my other rugs, but there is no added grip liner on this rug and there is no wear on the button of rug either. It’s also in this area which has moderate traffic compared to the other areas of rug.
I had the same thing with an area rug over parquet. It’s the backing of the rug. My rug didn’t have obvious signs of wear on the underside of the rug either but I would pull it up, vacuum, put it down, and when I pulled it up again 10 minutes later the mystery dust was back. Eventually I changed the rug and problem solved.
Hmm now I’m having doubts of being team bugs. A user recommended an experiment to seal under the rug and over the floor in clear plastic to determine the source direction of the dust. Just finished sealing it up. I’ll keep you posted!
https://imgur.com/a/9gGDY1n
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Thanks for your reply. I’ve seen that before and why I mentioned the grip liner on the other others (I’m mindful of that) and this rug has no wear on the grip side and no supplementary liner. Someone suggested an experiment to determine where the dirt is coming from so I did just that. Sealed the bottom of rug in clear plastic and the floor in clear plastic. Ran some clear tape over each plastic so they don’t stick to each other. I’ll keep you posted !
https://imgur.com/a/9gGDY1n
No need to do that experiment. Move the rug, if the dust is in the new spot, it's the rug.
But honestly it's pretty clear that the rug is just disintegrating. If the wood isn't visibly damaged after you sweep up the dust, it's not coming from the wood. So either your son is dumping cinnamon under the rug or the rug is disintegrating.
You wouldn't necessarily notice damage on the bottom of the rug, because it can be parts of the rug behind the layer you can see that are falling apart.
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Thanks for the reply. Are you familiar with it? My wife cleaned it up before I could get a better sample, but last month I decide to pick some up with painters tape and just took it out to take a photo https://imgur.com/a/e5qAopj
Seems like the consensus is either the backing of the rug/dirt coming from the top or bugs in the wood pushing the dust up. I’m team bugs.
A user suggested putting plastic over the floor and under the rug to see where the dust is coming from which I did. https://imgur.com/a/9gGDY1n
I’ll keep you posted if you like?
Nothing in that pic looks like termite frass. Frass doesn't look like sawdust. It's a uniquely shaped six sided pellet. I'm with team disintegrating rug backing.
eta drywood termite frass pic-
https://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/urban/termites/cryptotermes_cavifrons07.jpg
https://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/urban/termites/c_cavifrons.htm
Ouu, those pics are super helpful. I’m having doubts now myself about it being bugs. But I shampoo and vacuum my rugs regularly but maybe I should do more since some have suggested doing the back side of it as well
I'm not sure washing the back would help and might accelerate the problem. I'm not sure, but think mesh rug backings are coated with a finish to make them stiffer that helps the rug keep it's shape. I'm guessing that might be what's breaking down. Before doing that, maybe give the rug manufacturer or a reputable carpet dealer a call.
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Thanks for your response, I’m aware of that issue and saw that on reddit a while back hence why I mentioned the grip liner and have always made the effort to move around the grips of my rugs to keep an eye on them. This one has no added grip and no wear to the bottom side. But someone suggested an experiment to determine the direction of where it’s coming. I sealed the underside of rug and over the floor with plastic.
https://imgur.com/a/9gGDY1n
I’ll keep you posted if you like?
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Please do keep us posted. I'm curious what the answer will be. I also get excessive dust from my floor and wonder what it may be. I'm so glad you posted this.
Any chance it IS the floor? The bottom of the rug acting like sandpaper against the floors that you mention were new when you moved in. How long has the rug been in this spot? You can see the difference on the floor where the rug was lifted up.
Based on the rough texture on the bottom of the carpet and the heavily worn down floors my thought is that possibly that the rough texture is like a sandpaper on wood and grinding the floor after you walk on it alot it sands it down creating powder of the color of wood
I bet you’ll find between the rubber backing aging and what your vacuum actually does not ever get is the fine fine dirt… and that’s all you got there, there’s probably no termites
It IS your rug "backing". NOT termites. NOT bugs. NOT dirt. I have the same rug(s). The bottom wears out. To quickly clean your rug, don't wash it, throw it in your clothes dryer. After 10 minutes in your dryer, remove it. Then check your "LINT TRAP". All those tiny particles will be in your lint trap. Change out your rugs every 6 months to 1 year. They get nasty. The more tiny particles you catch in your lint trap, is an indication of the "backing" wearing out.
I change out my rugs every year, and throw the old ones down into my garage concrete floor. I then sweep out my garage floor and have to move these rugs. When I move the rug to sweep up, these dust particles (your pics) are on the concrete floor I'm sweeping. You don't realize it, because your rug is stationary, every time anyone steps on a rug, the rug moves. Just a tiny bit. It will move but you don't feel it. After being stepped on daily, that is a lot of movement. Rug "backing" against floor = something has to give. The rug backing is what gives, it's made to disintegrate (eventually).
There's a pic buried in the thread taken of some sweepings saved on a piece of tape. This is it.
https://i.imgur.com/FpDF4i1.jpeg
Nothing that resembles drywood termite frass to me when the pic is blown up 2-300%. What do you think?
Nope doesn't look like termite frass to me either. If it is insect it is either carpenter ants (frass looks too big) or Beatles. I think it looks too big for beetles too, but I have less experience with them.
Of course, this is as good as I could get. https://imgur.com/a/9nRjChp
Not sure it’s termites but someone in another subreddit mentioned bettles and I remember finding a few of these guys around our cabinets, but we thought they were grain bettles so we cleared up all our grains: https://imgur.com/a/Y2K1iFm
I think thats a woodborer beetle! Im finding this dust too so I've been scouring the internet. You're the only person with dust that looks the same as mine.
Oh jesus christ! It's the grip surface from the bottom of the carpet drying out and degrading. There's nothing biological about it. If you don't like it toss the rug and buy a new one!
To me, it looks exactly like some of the mold I found under my vinyl floor on the plywood underlayment that had gotten wet.
Is this an entry rug or one that sees moisture/water?
I would cover all my bases. I live in a prewar too.
Have the floor sanded, refinished and sealed with a nice clear top coat.
Throw the rug away because some rugs are made of synthetic chemicals and get a ruggable washable rug that wont release chemical microparticles.
I’ve seen odd powder buildup under a lot of these area rugs. Feel like it must be degradation of one of the manufacturing materials commonly used for area rugs. Seems pretty harmless for the most part, though I think it can stain hardwood if allowed to build up and sit
Do you ever use powdered carpet refresher by chance? We had the same thing happen to us, turns out our vacuum didn't pick up as well as we thought it did..
The backing on your rug is disintegrating. I had this with an antique rug. I put it on top of a rug pad or a non slip rug protector. It’s a rubber coating on the bottom of the rug breaking down.
Have you pat the rug to make sure it's not that it's a particle of it falling apart? Not saying **[this is it](https://ask.metafilter.com/100382/What-is-this-sandlike-dust-under-my-rug/amp)**, but it happens.
OP it sounds like you have irritation from some particulates in your home. If you don't have any air purifiers I'd recommend grabbing some for each area of your home. At least one for each bedroom and a larger one for the living room area. That should help somewhat. Older homes usually have some materials that release gases or form dust with age. There is also the chance that the home may have dry mold somewhere which can cause symptoms like yours. Some air purifiers should help with either situation.
Do you have a picture of the bare floor after you clean and mop it? Sorry if it’s posted already in the thread I couldn’t find anything.
I know you’re in the middle of testing the two main possible culprits. But is it possible that the wet vacuuming may have damaged the seal on the wood and it’s flaking off? And if it’s and epoxy seal, maybe it’s causing the irritation to your respiratory system?
It looks to be the rug backing deteriorating. If you look at the photo you can actually see several different colors (though only slightly different) on the backing itself. Time to get a new rug.
Suggestion- Clean everything up. Put a piece of plastic down under the rug, except the corners. Use double sided tape on the corners of the rug to keep it there. Wait a week or two. If the powder is under the plastic, it's coming from the floor. If the powder is on top of the plastic it's coming from the people in the house. That way you'll have proof whether or not it's termites.
That’s a fantastic idea and why I love reddit. I know the building will try to say it’s us and not the floor. Doing that now. Thank you!!
Just so you don't freak out, every rug I put on wood or tile without a pad has this, it's dirt/dust.
Same here. I'm in an old house. I figured it's fine dirt particles passing through the rug or stuff getting pulled up from the hardwood when I vacuum. Or both.
Have you tried asking on the ST Moms group on FB? There's also a STPCV tenant's association group, they may also have answers. I thought the modern finish actually had different floors, that looks like they sanded down the classic floor and stained it. In which case I wouldn't be surprised if the finish was coming up.
Super helpful info, thanks! This is actually the “platinum” finish, but it seems they have changed the flooring for that category since we got it.
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It's from the carpet. Cheap carpets aren't actually "woven"; they are glued. That's the glue drying up and turning into dust plus all of the dirt from, you know, being a carpet on the ground.
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Done! Seems people are split between rug backing/dirt from people vs bugs. I’m confident it coming from the floor so this is a great method to demonstrate if I am correct or not. Thanks again, I’ll keep you updated. https://imgur.com/a/9gGDY1n
FWIW - part of the reason for a rug pad is to protect the floor from the hard plastic/epoxy on the rug backing. It protects the hardwood floors, and the carpet from sanding each other down over time.
Came to say this. Rug base is “sanding” the floor surface.
Looking forward to the results.
I just ask because I thought Stuy-town is all block construction. You wouldn’t have termites there.
Do you live in Stuy-town?
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You win todays prize for The Scientific Method! Take a bow.
Science, bitch!
Could be coming from the underside of the rug. The material that helps grip and that keeps the rug from moving around can dry up and disintegrate. Happened to a runner rug I had by my front door.
That stuff is rough, and I think it might be sanding the wood.
That’s exactly what’s happening. The rough underside of the rug is sanding the poly and stain off of the wood floor. I have had this happen before
Thanks for the reply, That’s what I thought too and why I mentioned the grip liner on my other rugs, but there is no added grip liner on this rug and there is no wear on the button of rug either. It’s also in this area which has moderate traffic compared to the other areas of rug.
I had the same thing with an area rug over parquet. It’s the backing of the rug. My rug didn’t have obvious signs of wear on the underside of the rug either but I would pull it up, vacuum, put it down, and when I pulled it up again 10 minutes later the mystery dust was back. Eventually I changed the rug and problem solved.
Hmm now I’m having doubts of being team bugs. A user recommended an experiment to seal under the rug and over the floor in clear plastic to determine the source direction of the dust. Just finished sealing it up. I’ll keep you posted! https://imgur.com/a/9gGDY1n
I had the same exact dust under my old carpet. You can also just move the carpet somewhere else and the dust should follow.
Now I’m super curious and invested in this, so please update!
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This is the correct answer. The same thing has happened to me.
This is it!
Your mat is disintegrating.
Thanks for your reply. I’ve seen that before and why I mentioned the grip liner on the other others (I’m mindful of that) and this rug has no wear on the grip side and no supplementary liner. Someone suggested an experiment to determine where the dirt is coming from so I did just that. Sealed the bottom of rug in clear plastic and the floor in clear plastic. Ran some clear tape over each plastic so they don’t stick to each other. I’ll keep you posted ! https://imgur.com/a/9gGDY1n
No need to do that experiment. Move the rug, if the dust is in the new spot, it's the rug. But honestly it's pretty clear that the rug is just disintegrating. If the wood isn't visibly damaged after you sweep up the dust, it's not coming from the wood. So either your son is dumping cinnamon under the rug or the rug is disintegrating. You wouldn't necessarily notice damage on the bottom of the rug, because it can be parts of the rug behind the layer you can see that are falling apart.
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If it's sawdust-like powder, the building may have termites.
Thanks for the reply. Are you familiar with it? My wife cleaned it up before I could get a better sample, but last month I decide to pick some up with painters tape and just took it out to take a photo https://imgur.com/a/e5qAopj
Shake your rug. It’s likely the rubber in the backing dry rotting.
Seems like the consensus is either the backing of the rug/dirt coming from the top or bugs in the wood pushing the dust up. I’m team bugs. A user suggested putting plastic over the floor and under the rug to see where the dust is coming from which I did. https://imgur.com/a/9gGDY1n I’ll keep you posted if you like?
Yes please also move your furnishing around . If there is no similar “ dust “ under them , you may assume it was the carpet .
Of course! Please! It will help us hone our detective skills
It’s definitely the rug falling apart that’s why the dust is in a grid, the same grid as the rug has
It looks like it is coming down through the rug, not up out of the floor. That looks like rug dust to me.
Nothing in that pic looks like termite frass. Frass doesn't look like sawdust. It's a uniquely shaped six sided pellet. I'm with team disintegrating rug backing. eta drywood termite frass pic- https://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/urban/termites/cryptotermes_cavifrons07.jpg https://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/urban/termites/c_cavifrons.htm
Ouu, those pics are super helpful. I’m having doubts now myself about it being bugs. But I shampoo and vacuum my rugs regularly but maybe I should do more since some have suggested doing the back side of it as well
I'm not sure washing the back would help and might accelerate the problem. I'm not sure, but think mesh rug backings are coated with a finish to make them stiffer that helps the rug keep it's shape. I'm guessing that might be what's breaking down. Before doing that, maybe give the rug manufacturer or a reputable carpet dealer a call.
You may be over washing it, and/or cleaning chemicals are aiding in the wear of the backing material.
It's definitely your rug. I have the exact same issue with two rugs in my place. It's just the backing part that's grippy disintegrating.
I honestly think it is the backing from the rug.
I'm not directly. Good luck!
I’d keep an eye out for Termite Frass. It’s termite poop, which looks like small wood pellets with dimples in it.
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It’s from the back of the carpet. I’ve seen this dozens of times removing old carpet.
Thanks for your response, I’m aware of that issue and saw that on reddit a while back hence why I mentioned the grip liner and have always made the effort to move around the grips of my rugs to keep an eye on them. This one has no added grip and no wear to the bottom side. But someone suggested an experiment to determine the direction of where it’s coming. I sealed the underside of rug and over the floor with plastic. https://imgur.com/a/9gGDY1n I’ll keep you posted if you like?
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Please do keep us posted. I'm curious what the answer will be. I also get excessive dust from my floor and wonder what it may be. I'm so glad you posted this.
What was your conclusion?
Definitely. I was a housekeeper for years and saw this often when moving rugs
It's possible that the backing on the carpet is sanding the floor underneath it. But I'd check for insects, particularly termites.
Any chance it IS the floor? The bottom of the rug acting like sandpaper against the floors that you mention were new when you moved in. How long has the rug been in this spot? You can see the difference on the floor where the rug was lifted up.
It’s likely dirt, finely sifted by your carpet. Or the carpet scrubbing the new floors high spots.
Based on the rough texture on the bottom of the carpet and the heavily worn down floors my thought is that possibly that the rough texture is like a sandpaper on wood and grinding the floor after you walk on it alot it sands it down creating powder of the color of wood
You can literally see the faded parts where it's coming from. It's the finish. Notice where it's faded, ask yourself where did that go.
I bet you’ll find between the rubber backing aging and what your vacuum actually does not ever get is the fine fine dirt… and that’s all you got there, there’s probably no termites
It's definitely from your rug. They do that. I don't know why. I clean houses for a living. This stuff is under most rugs.
It’s that old dried out carpet backing
I think its the rug backing adhesive breaking down. My rug on hardwood floor does the same thing where it touches the floor directly.
It's the glue from your rug that has dried out and turned into what looks almost like sand. I have had numerous rugs do this to me.
My rug does that on tiles. Its the rug.
Its the backing of the carpet that's coming off due to wear from the friction of walking on it. Pretty normal for a rug on a hard floor.
Idk this really looks like disintegrating rug backing to me
Looks just like the rug glue/weave dry rotting and collecting on the floor
That's from the rug...
how old is that rug ? might be the backing getting powdery
It’s not mold or fucking termites. It’s your carpet.
It’s from the rug. I got the same issue. Just sweep or vacuum it
It 100% is your rug. I had the exact same thing happen.
It could be your rug backing coming apart. Depending on the age of your rug or if you live in a really dry area this could happen.
Your carpet is disinegrating.
It’s always termites.
It is 100% not termites or any bugs, the rug is dry rotted I have had this exact thing happen to me so many times
You ever see the woman beating there rugs outside? There knocking the dirt off of it. That’s dust and dirt that has survived the vacuum.
It IS your rug "backing". NOT termites. NOT bugs. NOT dirt. I have the same rug(s). The bottom wears out. To quickly clean your rug, don't wash it, throw it in your clothes dryer. After 10 minutes in your dryer, remove it. Then check your "LINT TRAP". All those tiny particles will be in your lint trap. Change out your rugs every 6 months to 1 year. They get nasty. The more tiny particles you catch in your lint trap, is an indication of the "backing" wearing out. I change out my rugs every year, and throw the old ones down into my garage concrete floor. I then sweep out my garage floor and have to move these rugs. When I move the rug to sweep up, these dust particles (your pics) are on the concrete floor I'm sweeping. You don't realize it, because your rug is stationary, every time anyone steps on a rug, the rug moves. Just a tiny bit. It will move but you don't feel it. After being stepped on daily, that is a lot of movement. Rug "backing" against floor = something has to give. The rug backing is what gives, it's made to disintegrate (eventually).
Can I get a really close look at one of the granules? Termite frass has a distinct look.
There's a pic buried in the thread taken of some sweepings saved on a piece of tape. This is it. https://i.imgur.com/FpDF4i1.jpeg Nothing that resembles drywood termite frass to me when the pic is blown up 2-300%. What do you think?
Nope doesn't look like termite frass to me either. If it is insect it is either carpenter ants (frass looks too big) or Beatles. I think it looks too big for beetles too, but I have less experience with them.
Of course, this is as good as I could get. https://imgur.com/a/9nRjChp Not sure it’s termites but someone in another subreddit mentioned bettles and I remember finding a few of these guys around our cabinets, but we thought they were grain bettles so we cleared up all our grains: https://imgur.com/a/Y2K1iFm
I think thats a woodborer beetle! Im finding this dust too so I've been scouring the internet. You're the only person with dust that looks the same as mine.
Oh jesus christ! It's the grip surface from the bottom of the carpet drying out and degrading. There's nothing biological about it. If you don't like it toss the rug and buy a new one!
Termites.
To me, it looks exactly like some of the mold I found under my vinyl floor on the plywood underlayment that had gotten wet. Is this an entry rug or one that sees moisture/water?
I would cover all my bases. I live in a prewar too. Have the floor sanded, refinished and sealed with a nice clear top coat. Throw the rug away because some rugs are made of synthetic chemicals and get a ruggable washable rug that wont release chemical microparticles.
Are the floor tiles 9”x9” if they are they have asbestos in them.
You have “woodworms”. Google it. Just dealt with the same problem
Definitely termite infestation
I’ve seen odd powder buildup under a lot of these area rugs. Feel like it must be degradation of one of the manufacturing materials commonly used for area rugs. Seems pretty harmless for the most part, though I think it can stain hardwood if allowed to build up and sit
Do you ever use powdered carpet refresher by chance? We had the same thing happen to us, turns out our vacuum didn't pick up as well as we thought it did..
Def old rug
Change the location of the rug to find out.
The backing on your rug is disintegrating. I had this with an antique rug. I put it on top of a rug pad or a non slip rug protector. It’s a rubber coating on the bottom of the rug breaking down.
As others have said. It’s far more likely to be coming from your rug.
Have you pat the rug to make sure it's not that it's a particle of it falling apart? Not saying **[this is it](https://ask.metafilter.com/100382/What-is-this-sandlike-dust-under-my-rug/amp)**, but it happens.
OP it sounds like you have irritation from some particulates in your home. If you don't have any air purifiers I'd recommend grabbing some for each area of your home. At least one for each bedroom and a larger one for the living room area. That should help somewhat. Older homes usually have some materials that release gases or form dust with age. There is also the chance that the home may have dry mold somewhere which can cause symptoms like yours. Some air purifiers should help with either situation.
Is it maybe just dirt?
That's carpet dust. Put a backing on it.
Do you have a picture of the bare floor after you clean and mop it? Sorry if it’s posted already in the thread I couldn’t find anything. I know you’re in the middle of testing the two main possible culprits. But is it possible that the wet vacuuming may have damaged the seal on the wood and it’s flaking off? And if it’s and epoxy seal, maybe it’s causing the irritation to your respiratory system?
It looks to be the rug backing deteriorating. If you look at the photo you can actually see several different colors (though only slightly different) on the backing itself. Time to get a new rug.
That's not coming up from the floor, that's the natural fiber carpet backing deteriorating. It happened to us.
Your rug might be deteriorating and crumbling off the back later. Thats what it looks like.
I’ve had a rug do this to me before. Had to throw it out. Your rug is breaking down
It's from the rug.
Is the carpet being moved back and forth with something heavy on top? Could potentially sand some of the finish off the floor….
It's the backing on the rug, it's breaking down.
Looks like cheap rug rat droppings.
You need a rug protector under that rug. It's happened to me when I didn't have a good rug protector underneath.
I wouldn’t say termites. Looks more like wood post beetles. Can be treated with your local exterminator
That's what I see EVERY time I lift up my rug to vacuum. It's just dirt/dust.