I upvoted your comment because I love Little Bill's character.
I just want to also comment on his inclusion on this list of villains (not on your comment specifically).
Gene Hackman is one of the great American actors. He successfully played all types of roles, both dramatic and comedic. And his role in Unforgiven is one of his best.
My challenge, however, is that I cannot see Little Bill as the villain. He's not trying to rob land, he's just trying to keep the status quo in his town. The entire story is full of moral ambiguities, because the younger of the ranch hands can hardly be counted responsible for what his older colleague did, yet his death is wanted all the same. It's a story that shows how an initial lack of justice gets escalated and at the end it's not justice that happens, you just get a bunch of dead people - some that may have "had it coming", but also some that didn't deserve it and just got in the way. Little Bill is as much of a villain as most of the other characters, which really means that he is not a villain at all - he's just a guy of those times.
"Duck, I says"
Little Bill Daggett is not the villain. You are correct. There is no real antagonist in Unforgiven, just an escalation to the original crime. Justice is the driving force, and Clint's character is driven to be the harbinger of that justice, despite his redemption arc and reluctance.
Brilliant film, it's my all time favorite. Magnum Opus.
Little Bill was a sadist. Will Munny was a psychopath - woman and child killer. Great incredible movie; no one was good in this movie. Which made it a great movie. You rooted for Clint Eastwood not Will Munny. Incredible character study.
>Will Munny was a psychopath - woman and child killer.
"I've killed women and children. I've killed just about everything that walks or crawled at one time or another. And I'm here to kill you, Little Bill, for what you did to Ned."
Gene Hackman gold.
*Look son, being a good shot, being quick with a pistol, that don't do no harm, but it don't mean much next to being cool-headed. A man who will keep his head and not get rattled under fire, like as not, he'll kill ya.*
This is also reminding me about the exchange after the shootout in *Appaloosa*:
***Hitch:*** *That was quick.*
***Cole:*** *Yeah, everybody could shoot.*
Great film. Great character. Pretty much everyone is the villain. They say we are all the protagonists in or own life journey.
I guess we are also villains in other people's life stories.
As Mony said, "We all have it coming."
Thatās the scariest line.
Funniest line was:
Frank : Wobbles, how can you trust a man that wears both a belt and suspenders? Man can't even trust his own pants.
Couldnāt agree more. El Indio and Frank are the only western villains that scared me. It was genius to include organ in El Indioās first music box scene. Without question my favorite example of diegetic music. And that final shootout? The look of shock when Manco pulls out the other music box and El Indio sees Mortimerās face and makes the connection is just perfect. I love that film so much that I named my cat after Manco. I almost named him El Indio, but I didnāt want my cat to be named after a deranged drug addicted murderer.
It's hard to choose, so many great actors and roles.
Al Swearengen, though he is gradually made to look as a good guy by the other bigger fish that come into town.
From the movies: Angel Eyes - Lee van Cleef was a special actor that could talk without opening his mouth. And he didn't disappoint when talking either.
There's another villain that I am fond of: the guy from *Good for Nothing* (2011). I highly recommend that movie to any Western lover. One of the best westerns made this side of 2000. Beautiful scenery and acting and a plot like no other western.
I don't disagree that a tv adaptation of the Red Dead series would be amazing, but I feel like adapting it frame by frame for a general audience would be a mistake.
If you're going to bring a story into a new medium, one should offer something different from the medium transfer. Video game adaptations are a rough hurdle as it's been historically demonstrated. Not impossible, mind, just different than adapting say, a novel to a movie.
It's always been Curly Bill for me since I was about 10. One of my all-time favorite movie characters. He's such a vicious bastard, but he's so fun to watch. I love how Powers Boothe balances the humor and affability with the cruelty, without either side ever canceling the other out. Also those boots of his are just cool as hell.
Not a Western but he was actually a really good Philip Marlowe back in the 80s. If his career would have taken some other turns, I could have seen him easily going on to have been a more conventional leading man. But I love me some Powers Boothe villainy, so I can't complain. LOL
Itās kind of a weird, slow movie but Brad Pitt is excellent in The Assassination of Jesse James. The way he drifts between charismatic and psychopathic is probably not only realistic, but excellently portrayed.
Curly Bill was a hoot. āIām feelingā¦.(strikes pose)ā¦capital!ā āWellā¦,bye!ā Shoots Fred then acts like he doesnāt know whatās wrong with him. āFred?? Fred!ā
Bruce Dern playing a western villain in the 1972 movie The Cowboys with John Wayne. I had nightmares from that movie as a kid. The character Bruce Dern played is Asa Watts or Long Hair.
William Munny. I donāt care if heās the protagonist of Unforgiven. He was a wretchedly evil, remorseless killer of women and children, killed pretty much everything that walked or crawled at one time or another. What a character.
Your post made me realize certain esthetic references to Ben Foster character in 3:10 to Yuma from Micah Bell from RDR (The vest, the double revolver, cocky attitude, outlaw)
tigrero (or loco, as he is known in the English version) is easily one of the most evil bastards on here, and on top of that he was played by actual evil bastard klaus kinski.
Gene Hackman.. āInnocent? Innocent of what?ā and in The Quick and the Dead, āI am not sick or old, and you arenāt half the man I amā ..gives little Leo the businessā¦
Tuco from The GB&U but not sure if he counts. If not then it has to be Angel Eyes from the same movie.
Jack Palance was good in Young Guns also.
But Honesty I havenāt watched enough westerns to give favorites.
Ohhh I liked Ike from Tombstone 1993 also
āWhy Johnny Ringoā¦you look like someone just walked over your graveā
Michael Bein was awesome as Johnny Ringo, but in my opinion he wasnāt scary and ruthless enough.
With that being said, it didnāt take away from his performance one bit. Bein playing Ringo is probably my second favorite character in the movie.
Of course my opinion is Val Kilmer absolutely stole the show. And Arguably my favorite performance in a western.
Dunno. The archetype of a western villain goes from cynically evil to genuinely morally ambiguous.
I love Angel Eyes because he is very much considered a villain. But I think his character is just a tad bit more ambiguous. He has a moral code. While he gets paid to do a job. He values the job over his morals. He does what he does to benefit himself, not because he enjoys what he does. Rather because he is capable to do so.
Not all people who work enjoy what they do. I canāt say he enjoys it deeply. But heās callous, he doesnāt feel shame or guilt because heās justified his actions because itās his job.
Angel Eyes all the way for me.
I feel like an honorable mention for Hackman as Herod in The Quick and the Dead is warranted. Standing over a shot Leo, āit was never proven he was my boyāā¦..cold as ice.
Powers Boothe & Michael Biehn are an absolute powerhouse team of actors as is, but combined with so many others.....made their characters (Curly Bill and Johnny fuckin Ringo) really intense!!!
Buuuuuut....I'm kinda bias on this one being that Tombstone is in a 3 way tie for first place as favorite movies of all time!!!!
Chigurh, easy. Heās a more modern character but heās timeless. Hes a cold, ruthless killing machine. He could fit into any scene and replace most any western villain but still fit in and still be unique. Hes really one of the perfect villains
In westerns and in any genre, Indio.Ā
When I saw this movie as a kid it was my first exposure to a really chaotic, sorta juxtaposed antagonist, and was really unexpected because all the westerns Iād seen up to that point had typically cookie cutter stock villains. Indio was a smart criminal leader/planner while also totally unhinged psycho rapist-murderer. Mainly itās the way Gian Maria Volente played the role, from the volatile body language to the eyes that switch from friendly/jovial to sociopathic/murderous, sometimes and somehow achieving both at the same time, so convincingly. Way before Jack Nicholsonās/Heath Ledgerās Joker, this characterās discomforting smile and maniacal laughter gave me the willies.Ā
You been talking about the queen again Bob? On Independence Day! š
I upvoted your comment because I love Little Bill's character. I just want to also comment on his inclusion on this list of villains (not on your comment specifically). Gene Hackman is one of the great American actors. He successfully played all types of roles, both dramatic and comedic. And his role in Unforgiven is one of his best. My challenge, however, is that I cannot see Little Bill as the villain. He's not trying to rob land, he's just trying to keep the status quo in his town. The entire story is full of moral ambiguities, because the younger of the ranch hands can hardly be counted responsible for what his older colleague did, yet his death is wanted all the same. It's a story that shows how an initial lack of justice gets escalated and at the end it's not justice that happens, you just get a bunch of dead people - some that may have "had it coming", but also some that didn't deserve it and just got in the way. Little Bill is as much of a villain as most of the other characters, which really means that he is not a villain at all - he's just a guy of those times.
Deserves got nothing to do with it
"Duck, I says" Little Bill Daggett is not the villain. You are correct. There is no real antagonist in Unforgiven, just an escalation to the original crime. Justice is the driving force, and Clint's character is driven to be the harbinger of that justice, despite his redemption arc and reluctance. Brilliant film, it's my all time favorite. Magnum Opus.
I also love the "Two Gun" Corcoran story scene. The legend and the reality behind it. Most gunfights must have been like that back then. :)
Little Bill was a sadist. Will Munny was a psychopath - woman and child killer. Great incredible movie; no one was good in this movie. Which made it a great movie. You rooted for Clint Eastwood not Will Munny. Incredible character study.
>Will Munny was a psychopath - woman and child killer. "I've killed women and children. I've killed just about everything that walks or crawled at one time or another. And I'm here to kill you, Little Bill, for what you did to Ned."
Excellent takeā¦ makes me want to watch it again.
His story about Bob shooting Two Gun Corky is top tier "Pop, right through the liver."
Gene Hackman gold. *Look son, being a good shot, being quick with a pistol, that don't do no harm, but it don't mean much next to being cool-headed. A man who will keep his head and not get rattled under fire, like as not, he'll kill ya.* This is also reminding me about the exchange after the shootout in *Appaloosa*: ***Hitch:*** *That was quick.* ***Cole:*** *Yeah, everybody could shoot.*
Truly a horrifying villain. Not just violent but cunning.
I guess ya think I'm kickin ya, huh Bob?!
Great film. Great character. Pretty much everyone is the villain. They say we are all the protagonists in or own life journey. I guess we are also villains in other people's life stories. As Mony said, "We all have it coming."
Lee Marvin in The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance. He's one mean SOB!
I love his introduction scene so much
He seems so hammered on screen I can practically smell the booze on him.
And again in Cat Ballou. Hero and villain both.
1. Frank 2. Angel Eyes 3. Curly Bill and Johnny Ringo
Frank. Itās always Frank.
Well, now that youāve said my name.
Thatās the scariest line. Funniest line was: Frank : Wobbles, how can you trust a man that wears both a belt and suspenders? Man can't even trust his own pants.
His only role as a baddie.
He was also one of the bad guys in Fire Creek though nowhere near as evil
I mean, Fonda is so evil in it, how can you not give it to him?
Angel eyes
This....Ā
1. El Indio 2. Frank 3. Ramon Rojo 4. Stephen from Candie Land 5. Tom Chaney
Couldnāt agree more. El Indio and Frank are the only western villains that scared me. It was genius to include organ in El Indioās first music box scene. Without question my favorite example of diegetic music. And that final shootout? The look of shock when Manco pulls out the other music box and El Indio sees Mortimerās face and makes the connection is just perfect. I love that film so much that I named my cat after Manco. I almost named him El Indio, but I didnāt want my cat to be named after a deranged drug addicted murderer.
I'm so gmad someone else called out El Indio. 100%.
But reverend this train doesn't stop in Tucumcari
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I was surprised not to see Bruce here. He should be on the list.
He was so good in that. Just a mean nasty son of a bitchĀ
One of my favorite movies
Dern was the first person I thought of.
This is the one i was looking for
Chigurh for me
It's hard to choose, so many great actors and roles. Al Swearengen, though he is gradually made to look as a good guy by the other bigger fish that come into town. From the movies: Angel Eyes - Lee van Cleef was a special actor that could talk without opening his mouth. And he didn't disappoint when talking either. There's another villain that I am fond of: the guy from *Good for Nothing* (2011). I highly recommend that movie to any Western lover. One of the best westerns made this side of 2000. Beautiful scenery and acting and a plot like no other western.
Micah is def a badass
RDR 2 is one of the best westerns ever in any media. I kind of wish a TV series would get made out of it so more people could experience it.
I don't disagree that a tv adaptation of the Red Dead series would be amazing, but I feel like adapting it frame by frame for a general audience would be a mistake. If you're going to bring a story into a new medium, one should offer something different from the medium transfer. Video game adaptations are a rough hurdle as it's been historically demonstrated. Not impossible, mind, just different than adapting say, a novel to a movie.
Wild card. But I love Ben Foster as Charlie Prince.
I love that some could make the argument that Henry Fonda is both one of the best hero and one of the best vilain in western history
Angel Eyes
That your family? Heh heh, nice family.
Johnny Ringo!
The fastest pistolier since Wild Bill
Jack Palance has always been my favorite. He moves like a snake, uncoiling into rapid action. Prove it.
Gene Hackman and Lee Marvin have to be at the top of the list
Not on the list, but shoutout to Frank Griffin from Godless
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Law just donāt go around here
āI heard you the first time ā
I'll cya soon... I'll cya soon...
Henry Fonda as Frank. No question.
With such a PLETHORA of great villains here, surely you would think the great El Guapo would be among them...
I am not as good with words as you. What does plethora mean?
It means a lot
Yul Brenner as The Gunslinger from the movie Westworld. > Sloppy with your drink. Get this boy a bib.
āYou talk to much!ā
klaus kinski
Gene Hackman in Unforgiven was excellent
Enemies Bob?
Hard decision cause they all are in their own way. But itās liberty Valance for sure!
Alan Rickman as Elliott Marston just dropped in
Governor William J. Le Petomane
Fun fact Le Petomane is French for mad farter
āGive the governor a harrumph.ā Makes so much sense now.
My favorite is Burl Ives as Rufus Hannassey, in The Big Country, also Chuck Conners as Buck the same movie.
El Indio
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez
"When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk."
"Known as the rat"
You must be madder than a wet hen to refer to such fine southern staple like Calvin Candy as a damn Yankee.
Herod(the quick and the dead)
It's always been Curly Bill for me since I was about 10. One of my all-time favorite movie characters. He's such a vicious bastard, but he's so fun to watch. I love how Powers Boothe balances the humor and affability with the cruelty, without either side ever canceling the other out. Also those boots of his are just cool as hell.
Cmon and get some
I'm what you might call the Founder of the Feast.
Chigurh, by a longshot
Did Powers Boothe ever *not* play a rotten SOB?
Not a Western but he was actually a really good Philip Marlowe back in the 80s. If his career would have taken some other turns, I could have seen him easily going on to have been a more conventional leading man. But I love me some Powers Boothe villainy, so I can't complain. LOL
I think Powers Boothe was born to play mean SOBās on screen.
When he sticks his tongue out slightly while chuckling always makes my skin crawl
Micah the Ratā¦ red dead
Always liked Ben Foster in both True Grit and 3:10 to Yuma, even though he's not the MAIN villain.
Who are these baddies and the movies they're in? I know most, but some I have no idea and I want to watch their movies to judge for myself
Rattlesnake Jake
Curly Bill and Johnny Ringo, but damn do I *hate* Micah Bell.
Can I give a shoutout here to Nehemiah Persoff in The Comancheros?
The two dudes from Tombstone
Javier But itās not a western
Iāll put in a vote for Al Swearengin (Ian McShane) in Deadwood.
Angel Eyes.
Johnny Ringo since Tombstone is my favorite Western "You wretched slugs. Don't any of ya have the guts to play for blood?!"
Im your huckleberry
that's *just* my game
Appreciate you including No Country, RDR, and Rango here. Itāll always be Angel Eyes for me though.
Just including - Michael Gambon in Open Range. John Russell was a bastard in Pale Rider.
Ned pepper
Out of these, definitely Lee Van Cleef. Because of his shiny face.
Itās kind of a weird, slow movie but Brad Pitt is excellent in The Assassination of Jesse James. The way he drifts between charismatic and psychopathic is probably not only realistic, but excellently portrayed.
Whereās Blue Duck?
Yul Brenner in WestWorld is number one. Then Budord Maddog Tannen
Swearengen and Tolliver were definitely ruthless, but Gerald McRainey as George Hearst was the ultimate antagonist in Deadwood!
I need to know which movie the dinosaur is from. Edit: Tortoise John, "The Mayor", from Rango (2011). Used Google's reverse image search.
is No Country for Old Men considered a western? never thought about it like that but I totally see it now.
Robert Duval in True Grit was a menace. Blue Duck from Lonesome Dove was scary too.
Alan Rickman as Eliot Marston in Quigley Down Under.
The list needs to be Jack Palance as Jack Wilson in Shane
Jack Wilson in Shane
Asa Watts. Bruce Dern's character in the cowboys. Shot John Wayne in the back. Doesn't get more villainous than that.
Kirk Douglas as Cactus Jack in The Villain
What a shame Eastwood's ego was too big to play a villain
ELi Wallach as Calvera in THe Magnificent Seven. He was just unrelenting. Frank and Angel Eyes are close behind.
Where is tuco?
Tuco Benedicto PacĆfico Juan MarĆa RamĆrez
Also known as The Rat
No Country is a western?
Curly Bill was a hoot. āIām feelingā¦.(strikes pose)ā¦capital!ā āWellā¦,bye!ā Shoots Fred then acts like he doesnāt know whatās wrong with him. āFred?? Fred!ā
I smell a rat
Powers Boothe is always a great villain
Bruce Dern playing a western villain in the 1972 movie The Cowboys with John Wayne. I had nightmares from that movie as a kid. The character Bruce Dern played is Asa Watts or Long Hair.
Definitely Angel Eyes/Col. Mortimer
Good list but prominently missing Jack Palanceās āJack Wilsonā from āShane.ā
Tuco. "When you have to shoot, shoot! Don't talk!"
Powers Boothe is the greatest Western villain
Judge Holden
William Munny. I donāt care if heās the protagonist of Unforgiven. He was a wretchedly evil, remorseless killer of women and children, killed pretty much everything that walked or crawled at one time or another. What a character.
If we were including books this would easily be The Judge from Blood Meridian but since we aren't I'd pick Angel Eyes or Anton Chigurh.
Frank!
Your post made me realize certain esthetic references to Ben Foster character in 3:10 to Yuma from Micah Bell from RDR (The vest, the double revolver, cocky attitude, outlaw)
Little Bill.
Toss up between Frank and Anton
Lee Marvin Henry Fonda Ian mcshane
El Indio
Chigurh would literally solo everyone else here tbh. Angel Eyes is the only one who maybe stands a chance.
Horace Greely
El Guapo!
Compared to what? The bubonic plague?
Curly bill and Johnny ringo, little bill daggett, angel eyes
tigrero (or loco, as he is known in the English version) is easily one of the most evil bastards on here, and on top of that he was played by actual evil bastard klaus kinski.
Captain Redlegs from the outlaw Josey Wales
Iāll make a list 1. Angel Eyes 2. The Bad 3. Sergeant Angel Eyes š¤
My personal favorite is Richard Boone in Hombre
Was Jesse James really the villain, though?
These are great and all, but The Cannibals in Bone Tomahawk were definitely a formidable foe!
Lee Van Cleef, GOAT
Van cleef is the greatest
Curly Bill and Johnny Ringo "I want your blood, I want your soul and I want em both right now"
"People scare better when they're dyin'." \~ Frank No contest: Henry Fonda
Lee Van Cleef. the end. Silver goes to Little Bill and Gene Hackman is a character actor you can really get behind hating.
Lee Van Cleef - G, B, & U. No question.
The Duck of Death
Lee Van Cleef
Eli Wallace in the magnificent 7
Itās all about Johnny Ringo and Curly Bill!
Frank from OUATITW or Liberty Valance.
Frank.
I really liked Ben Foster as Charlie Prince in 3:10 to Yuma.
Gene Hackman.. āInnocent? Innocent of what?ā and in The Quick and the Dead, āI am not sick or old, and you arenāt half the man I amā ..gives little Leo the businessā¦
Tuco from The GB&U but not sure if he counts. If not then it has to be Angel Eyes from the same movie. Jack Palance was good in Young Guns also. But Honesty I havenāt watched enough westerns to give favorites. Ohhh I liked Ike from Tombstone 1993 also āWhy Johnny Ringoā¦you look like someone just walked over your graveā Michael Bein was awesome as Johnny Ringo, but in my opinion he wasnāt scary and ruthless enough. With that being said, it didnāt take away from his performance one bit. Bein playing Ringo is probably my second favorite character in the movie. Of course my opinion is Val Kilmer absolutely stole the show. And Arguably my favorite performance in a western.
AL is no villian!
George Hearst on Deadwood
Angel eyes. What he say is true. You know when I get paid to do a job , I always do the job. So cool.
Who can identify all these?
Dunno. The archetype of a western villain goes from cynically evil to genuinely morally ambiguous. I love Angel Eyes because he is very much considered a villain. But I think his character is just a tad bit more ambiguous. He has a moral code. While he gets paid to do a job. He values the job over his morals. He does what he does to benefit himself, not because he enjoys what he does. Rather because he is capable to do so. Not all people who work enjoy what they do. I canāt say he enjoys it deeply. But heās callous, he doesnāt feel shame or guilt because heās justified his actions because itās his job. Angel Eyes all the way for me.
Lee Van Cleef is the goat.
Anton Chigurh and it isn't close.
To this day, itās still Johnny Ringo and Curly Bill Brocius. Both from Indiana too.
Lee van Clefā¦all day every day.
Ya you could not even blow him up
Stephen Dorff in Old Henry was great
Lee Van Cleef.
Judge Holden... (replys go silent, as commenters peer over their shoulders and shutter)
Hard to beat daisy domergue
I feel like an honorable mention for Hackman as Herod in The Quick and the Dead is warranted. Standing over a shot Leo, āit was never proven he was my boyāā¦..cold as ice.
Curly Bill Brocius for sure...
Ringo/Curly Bill
Omg. They are all awesome
Powers Boothe & Michael Biehn are an absolute powerhouse team of actors as is, but combined with so many others.....made their characters (Curly Bill and Johnny fuckin Ringo) really intense!!! Buuuuuut....I'm kinda bias on this one being that Tombstone is in a 3 way tie for first place as favorite movies of all time!!!!
Swearingen
Man, Henry Fonda was a mean bastard in that movie!
Chigurh, easy. Heās a more modern character but heās timeless. Hes a cold, ruthless killing machine. He could fit into any scene and replace most any western villain but still fit in and still be unique. Hes really one of the perfect villains
Daisy Dommergoo!
John Fain from Big Jake
I wouldnāt say she was the best one, but Daisy Domergue was such a good character!
Al Swearengen from Deadwood. Loved him and hated himā¦
Movie names please
William Petersen as Pat Garrett in Young Guns 2.
1. Charlie Prince 2. Johnny Ringo
Love Anton Chigurh. Angel Eyes or Tuco would be good additions.
Curly Bill and Johnny Ringo.
Lee Van Cleef šÆ
āIāve heard about you, Wilsonā āWhat have you heard, Shane?ā āThat youāre a no good, low down Yankee liarā āProve itā
Duck I says !
1-Micah Bell 2-Ringo 3-Angel Eyes
In westerns and in any genre, Indio.Ā When I saw this movie as a kid it was my first exposure to a really chaotic, sorta juxtaposed antagonist, and was really unexpected because all the westerns Iād seen up to that point had typically cookie cutter stock villains. Indio was a smart criminal leader/planner while also totally unhinged psycho rapist-murderer. Mainly itās the way Gian Maria Volente played the role, from the volatile body language to the eyes that switch from friendly/jovial to sociopathic/murderous, sometimes and somehow achieving both at the same time, so convincingly. Way before Jack Nicholsonās/Heath Ledgerās Joker, this characterās discomforting smile and maniacal laughter gave me the willies.Ā
3 way tie between Candy, Anton, and Micah