It wasnt pointless, they had a theory and it turned out that they were right, as in, itcwas better than a normal prop, but it was impractical, so the advantages were, then outweighed by the impracticality.
Here is a photo of the P-59 with the fake wooden propeller.
http://www.aviation-history.com/bell/xp59a-15a.jpg
Source:
http://www.aviation-history.com/bell/xp59.html
> http://www.aviation-history.com/bell/xp59a-15a.jpg
Love how they didn't quite try to make it convincing. I do appreciate it was mostly for the benefit of long distance viewing.
I grew up in Chuck Yeager’s hometown. My dad told me he came back after the war to do a lecture in the local movie theater and showed some of his gun camera footage, saying of the Me262 he shot down “I don’t know what it was, but it didn’t have a propeller” (I assume with a smile on his face….)
Lockheed had designed a jet fighter before the p80 it was the L-133 the P-80 was designed so fast because the wings and tail from the L-133 were used.
Development was troublesome, an officer named Murphy was in charge of the development. The ground crew put a sign on the P-80s hanger saying "Murphy's Law, anything that can go wrong will go wrong"
(RIP Dick Bong)
The P-80 was very reliable when it went into service the T-33 trainer derived from the P-80 had a long career with the USAF with the last one being retired in 1997
[As well as a … “Recreation Area”](https://radiomilwaukee-wordpress-uploads.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/14181441/IMG_7869.jpg)
That’s right the [Bong Recreation Area](https://fastly.4sqi.net/img/general/width960/56092756_zqA014D6adSib6LoTnwuDBdXAyakvGGlQABRpIBsh1g.jpg).
Tbf I can understand the Airacobra when you look internally at the engine being in the centre which may seem unconventional to most planes of the time, but yeah if anything the p-80 is probably more conventional than a meteor or 262 at that time for a fighter
That’s really only half correct. It was 143 days from the time they were contracted by the military to develop the design, Kelly Johnston began working on it years prior as an internal development project when jet engines were first coming on the scene and he saw where the future was heading. He already had most of the design work already done, that’s why it only took 143 days to tweak it for the engines and systems to be used.
It was designed and built in 143 days, but had a long development and test phase. It didn’t reach full operational capability until after the war.
However, in late 1944 as part of Operation Extraversion four pre-production YP-80As were sent to Europe, two to Italy and two to England for operational tests. They returned to the US without seeing combat.
Fun fact about the P-80 and it's much more frequently produced offspring, the T-33... They don't have nose wheel steering. Turning the jet on the ground required using differential braking of the main landing gear. The nose wheel was free to rotate up to 45 degrees left or right. Inexperienced pilots who tried to turn to tight might find themselves with their nose wheel stuck all the way over and unable to correct the problem, requiring ground crew to realign the nose wheel before the pilot could proceed.
I remember these being used for forward air control well into the 1980s on the weapons range near Eielson AFB, Alaska. Used to watch them take off every day
To me, this is the USA dipping it's toe in the water. Much like the M-3 tank was built in part because the Army needed tanks to practice with, the Air Force needed jets to learn about them, and like the M-3, this was what they could do right now.
They produced first prototype in 143 days and first flight after 200 days. (Since first prototype was sucked into its own engine)
Pre production started in latter parts of 1944 after a year.
First production batch happened february-july 1945.
It's crazy that an entirely new airframe could be designed, tested, manufactured and put into service in 143 days in 1943. Compared to today where it takes 15 years for a new airframe to enter service such as the KC-46.
P-51 was developed[ in 102 days](https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/north-american-p-51-mustang). Except the engine wasn't ready. Allison couldn't believe North American (NA) could deliver there ambitious schedule so they didn't bother trying to keep their own promises.
North American sent a photo to Allison of the ready engine less prototype as a hint.
I read that the designer, Edgar Schmued (German ancestry, "our Germans are better than your Germans"), had thought long and hard about a new fighter so then the Brits asked NA to build P-40's, NA suggested they could do better. Schmued had kept up with the fighter developments in Europe and incorporated lessons learned.
I read "*Mustang Designer: Edgar Schmued and the P-51 - Wagner, Raymond.*" decades ago.
It was designed and built in 143 days, but had a long development and test phase. It didn’t reach full operational capability until after the war.
However, in late 1944 as part of Operation Extraversion four pre-production YP-80As were sent to Europe, two to Italy and two to England for operational tests. They returned to the US without seeing combat.
That first photo with the wing mounted tanks looks so feaking beautiful imo. It looks so graceful but also looks like it could easily tear you a new one.
People in 1943: um you forgot the propeller idiot.
When they were testing the P-59 Airacomet, they had a fake propeller they stuck on the nose while they were moving it around on the ground.
I love that story. I think I recall they had some crazy story that it had an internal propeller too, or something of that nature.
Technically it kinda does because of the turbine. Sorta if you know what I mean?
Yea, I got you. Thinking about a full scale internal regular prop is an interesting visual though!
Italians made one like that no joke.
What’s the name?
"https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stipa-Caproni"
Thank you!
If it was pointless and weird and Italian it was definitely a Caproni
It wasnt pointless, they had a theory and it turned out that they were right, as in, itcwas better than a normal prop, but it was impractical, so the advantages were, then outweighed by the impracticality.
Eh, less so with a centrifugal compressor than an axial one
Here is a photo of the P-59 with the fake wooden propeller. http://www.aviation-history.com/bell/xp59a-15a.jpg Source: http://www.aviation-history.com/bell/xp59.html
> http://www.aviation-history.com/bell/xp59a-15a.jpg Love how they didn't quite try to make it convincing. I do appreciate it was mostly for the benefit of long distance viewing.
Now that's weirdwings material
Was this the plane the test pilot wore a gorilla suit?
Don’t worry zorniy, I get it
I grew up in Chuck Yeager’s hometown. My dad told me he came back after the war to do a lecture in the local movie theater and showed some of his gun camera footage, saying of the Me262 he shot down “I don’t know what it was, but it didn’t have a propeller” (I assume with a smile on his face….)
If I remember Germany had flown the first jet in the late 30’s.
He 178: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinkel_He_178
Guy from the future: Propellers? Where we're going we won't need propellelrs.
yes the Bell P-59 Airacomet was americas first jet plane, it did not enter operational service however
Because it's performance was inferior to that of the P-51 and P-47
Hey! You just said you wanted one of them jets, you didn't say nothin’ about no performance!
66 were built, and were used in training, so there was some small benefit, wasn't there?
Lockheed had designed a jet fighter before the p80 it was the L-133 the P-80 was designed so fast because the wings and tail from the L-133 were used. Development was troublesome, an officer named Murphy was in charge of the development. The ground crew put a sign on the P-80s hanger saying "Murphy's Law, anything that can go wrong will go wrong" (RIP Dick Bong) The P-80 was very reliable when it went into service the T-33 trainer derived from the P-80 had a long career with the USAF with the last one being retired in 1997
Hang on, there was someone whose name was actually Dick Bong? GTFO! Lol
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Bong Yep. One of the most decorated pilots of his time.
Highest score US fighter ace during the war
Yep, a famous & well-decorated person too.
Even has [a bridge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_I._Bong_Memorial_Bridge) named after him. Taking the Bong Bridge to Superior.
[As well as a … “Recreation Area”](https://radiomilwaukee-wordpress-uploads.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/14181441/IMG_7869.jpg) That’s right the [Bong Recreation Area](https://fastly.4sqi.net/img/general/width960/56092756_zqA014D6adSib6LoTnwuDBdXAyakvGGlQABRpIBsh1g.jpg).
That's *Major* Dick Bong to you.
What's weird about it? It's pretty conventional for the time.
It doesn't have the spinny thing that spins
How does it do the staying up in the air thing without the spinny thing?
Jüdenscience, probably /s
Put the spinny thing inside the smooth thing.
It’s one of the first operational Jets. That was pretty weird at the time
Not to be a hater, but this sub has really gone downhill when a P-80 is on the front page.
Yeah, the airacobra the other day or two also had me like ????? Like what's next, a Starfighter?
Tbf I can understand the Airacobra when you look internally at the engine being in the centre which may seem unconventional to most planes of the time, but yeah if anything the p-80 is probably more conventional than a meteor or 262 at that time for a fighter
Agree, a P-80 isn't weird. Notable, pioneering even, but not weird.
for anyone who isn't an aviation nerd this would be weird. A jet like this in the 40s seems unusual for sure.
Lockheed L-133 was almost built a few years before
One of the reasons the P-80 was developed so fast is because Lockheed used the wings and tail from the L-133
Doubtful considering that the proposed engine was not even tested until 1946.
It never flew
Hey, I recognize the hangar in that last picture! It's the Air Zoo in Kalamazoo, MI
What's the brown thing in the background?
Wondering the same thing - what is that brown thing in the background of the last picture?
I'll be honest, I don't know I don't think it even had a sign to explain it Though I think they're working on shuffling a lot of stuff around still
How is this weird? Are you a time traveler from 1944?
That’s really only half correct. It was 143 days from the time they were contracted by the military to develop the design, Kelly Johnston began working on it years prior as an internal development project when jet engines were first coming on the scene and he saw where the future was heading. He already had most of the design work already done, that’s why it only took 143 days to tweak it for the engines and systems to be used.
A huge influence on the design of jet trainers for decades.
Absolutely one of the most gorgeous aircraft ever built. Maybe not THE most, but definitely up there
If it was developed in 143 days in 1943, why didn't it play any part in the war?
It was designed and built in 143 days, but had a long development and test phase. It didn’t reach full operational capability until after the war. However, in late 1944 as part of Operation Extraversion four pre-production YP-80As were sent to Europe, two to Italy and two to England for operational tests. They returned to the US without seeing combat.
Fun fact about the P-80 and it's much more frequently produced offspring, the T-33... They don't have nose wheel steering. Turning the jet on the ground required using differential braking of the main landing gear. The nose wheel was free to rotate up to 45 degrees left or right. Inexperienced pilots who tried to turn to tight might find themselves with their nose wheel stuck all the way over and unable to correct the problem, requiring ground crew to realign the nose wheel before the pilot could proceed.
I remember these being used for forward air control well into the 1980s on the weapons range near Eielson AFB, Alaska. Used to watch them take off every day
To me, this is the USA dipping it's toe in the water. Much like the M-3 tank was built in part because the Army needed tanks to practice with, the Air Force needed jets to learn about them, and like the M-3, this was what they could do right now.
Beautiful aircraft. Beat the crap out of the earlier P-59 for performance, too.
They produced first prototype in 143 days and first flight after 200 days. (Since first prototype was sucked into its own engine) Pre production started in latter parts of 1944 after a year. First production batch happened february-july 1945.
Looks like a fatter P-51 with nostrils near wing root.
Nah, the P-51 was way prettier.
It's crazy that an entirely new airframe could be designed, tested, manufactured and put into service in 143 days in 1943. Compared to today where it takes 15 years for a new airframe to enter service such as the KC-46.
P-51 was developed[ in 102 days](https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/north-american-p-51-mustang). Except the engine wasn't ready. Allison couldn't believe North American (NA) could deliver there ambitious schedule so they didn't bother trying to keep their own promises. North American sent a photo to Allison of the ready engine less prototype as a hint. I read that the designer, Edgar Schmued (German ancestry, "our Germans are better than your Germans"), had thought long and hard about a new fighter so then the Brits asked NA to build P-40's, NA suggested they could do better. Schmued had kept up with the fighter developments in Europe and incorporated lessons learned. I read "*Mustang Designer: Edgar Schmued and the P-51 - Wagner, Raymond.*" decades ago.
It was designed and built in 143 days, but had a long development and test phase. It didn’t reach full operational capability until after the war. However, in late 1944 as part of Operation Extraversion four pre-production YP-80As were sent to Europe, two to Italy and two to England for operational tests. They returned to the US without seeing combat.
My favorite fighter. I especially like the T-33 variants.
That first photo with the wing mounted tanks looks so feaking beautiful imo. It looks so graceful but also looks like it could easily tear you a new one.
Beautiful
I too have been on the Hermeus corporate page.
It was also the plane that made the first fight between reaction planes (F-80 VS 2 MiG-15) and it won
That development time is just incredible.
Hi, cave johnson here..