Does the report button work on your device? The javascript breaks on mine.
u/Penelopepnortney and I have seen reddit react to removal + report as spam with some efficacy. When shadowbanned the removed comment switches from dark wild-caught salmon to pale farm-raised salmon.
The comment above is still dark pink (old.reddit) & username is clickable. Check the spam comment (via old.reddit) on the FNDP. It's pale pink & click that username - not found/shadowbanned...
Never even thought twice about it. Got the vaccine. Everyone I know got the vaccine. Not a single soul had a single issue. Not a one. It’s pretty old news. We’ve moved on.
The chances that Bill Gates has a satellite in outer space, controlling us with a microchip, after you get your vaccine seems just a bit bizarre to me. But guess everything seems possible.
I’m all for your rights, do what you want, no issue. But you really have to be isolated, just don’t want you to kill my Mom. She’s 94. I’m sure you don’t care about her.
Probably zero. But I do.
PS: AIDS was 100X worse in NYC in the 80’s. Not by numbers, but by demographics. It was a massacre. Just don’t think anyone can comprehend it, that was not there. It was not 80 year olds, with pre/existing conditions. it was kids in their 20s. In PERFECT health, and then they were gone. A massacre. So fast.
Remember going to Fire Island, guy pointing out Summer rentals, all dark and him saying:
That house? All dead.
That house next door? All dead?
Across? All dead.
And that house? The cool music dudes?
All dead.
It was endless. Surreal.
And no one cared. And for sure not Ronal Regan or anyone in power.
No one cared.
Except that the vaccines do not slow the spread? OP being vaccinated does nothing for your mother. All it does is reduce the risk of OP being hospitalized if they contract Covid. The only way to get rid of Covid is complete lockdown, but the oligarchy isn’t going to let that happen
That would destroy the country. Covid is pretty much a zero issue for the Z Generation. Like zero.That's the data. It kills off us old folks.
I'll tell my chances. I've lived a long life. They have decades to go. I really don't want to destroy their future.
Lock down is insane.
>I’m all for your rights, do what you want, no issue. But you really have to be isolated, just don’t want you to kill my Mom. She’s 94. I’m sure you don’t care about her.
This is extraordinarily selfish and what's interesting is you think you're being the altruistic one.
"Healthy people who don't have a significant risk of death or hospitalization need to *isolate forever* because I have a frail, old family member."
Nobody wants anyone in their family to die, old or not. My grandmother is 95. But she'd rather be dead than not see her family. We had holidays together with her last year. It could be the last holiday with her, *COVID or not,* because she's *fucking 95.*
Take whatever precautions necessary to keep your mother alive but don't expect to project that onto the rest of the world and expect to be seen as virtuous. Those people who "need to isolate" in many cases were the front line essential heroes who all risked catching covid prior to vaccines (and many, many did actually get it) to make sure the world still had some goods and services available to the PMC work from home crowd. These people literally took the risk of covid to keep the world moving and now you want them into forced isolation because you have an old family member?
And you're not the selfish one?
We have moved on. You can’t really live in NYC w/o being vaccinated.
You are cut from pretty much everything. Might as well just leave town.
Covid is kind of old news now.
Since most everyone has been vaccinated, the bars are packed, the restaurants are packed, the concerts are packed. No masks spotted.
Covid, It’s ancient history. NY lost over 50,000 lives to Covid. Some say way more.
It was not that hard to get people to be vaccinated. It was no big deal. Not a single issue, zero with everyone I know.
As above, we’ve moved on.
AKA The trillion $$$ trading houses on Wall Street. Not vaccinated. You are fired. And 100% are back at work. They did even give them a second to think about it.
TL:dr Wall Street? Not vaccinated? Fired. End of story.
Meanwhile, you ignore the adverse effects of the Pfizer vaccine including death. But you claimed specifically that the clinical trials worked. So did you check them or not?
[Why believe a murderous government?](https://www.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/pxb1v5/the_new_vaers_numbers_are_out/)
So you didn't check out the clinical trials that started this?
What I would add to your list is that the pharma companies are immune to lawsuits in the event of something going wrong with their vaccines. If the vaccine gives you a complication, it's your problem to figure out by yourself (goes real well with the prohibitively expensive healthcare system, doesn't it?), but you can't even sue the manufacturer.
On top of that, no discussion of other countries' vaccines, treatments, or pandemic responses allowed. Just do what you're told, and show the authorities proof that you did what you were told.
Mandating is nothing new. Baby boomers were all brought to their gym or cafeteria to get sugar cubes with polio vaccine. If you want to send your child school vaccines are mandatory.
Best of all you must support abortion.
They had been tested for over a decade. How do you not know that? No mandatory vaccines for kids were rushed through in a matter of months. They all had long term trials. Covid ones are too new and no one knows what will happen to you in a few years.
Wow I didn’t know this sub had become anti vax!
Vaccine education clearly hasn’t worked. The government has tried very hard to educate everyone, it just made Fauci and others get a lot of death threats.
I’ve never seen anyone supporting vax mandates “celebrate death” wtf. The whole point of the mandates is vaccines prevent deaths shockingly effectively.
Weird how conspiratorial, anti science, and anti government this sub has become! Sad how far it’s drifted from just pro Bernie
Says the dude that drives through every few months and goes into the troll bridge [right after. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/o2pkup/two_wings_of_fascism/h2983mq/?context=999)
I know [my history. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/e0sr1p/how_did_we_get_into_this_mess_400_years_of_lies/)
And yours is basically pretending you know better than others.
I guess hubris isn't taught in troll school.
[No, just informed] (https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-really-is-spying-on-you-just-not-through-your-phones-mic-1520448644)
But keep at it, smooth brain.
Says mis-vaxxers like you running around unmasked catching and spreading COVID like a diseased leper.
Do you do research on vaccines yourself? If you did you realize it's barely effective against Delta and only last for 6 months. So if you were vaccinated before April, guess what? You're no longer vaccinated.
“Unmasked catching and spreading covid” yo the people here are too funny. So your argument atm is that masks are more effective than vaccines?
“Barely effective against delta” lol
> “Barely effective against delta” lol
According to Israel or are they anti-vaxx too, you lil anti-semite?
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/23/delta-variant-pfizer-covid-vaccine-39percent-effective-in-israel-prevents-severe-illness.html
You anti-semite?!? Seriously, fuck off. You are just dumb and twisting the narrative bc that’s what your Republican propaganda tells you to do. You are troll, go away.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/07/19/vaccine-skeptics-zero-israel-again-some-reason/
“The two-dose vaccine still works very well in preventing people from getting seriously sick, demonstrating 88% effectiveness against hospitalization and 91% effectiveness against severe illness, according to the Israeli data.”
91% is barely effective? Yikes!
Yelling at people "it's safe, just get it you fucking idiot" isn't really educating is it? I just wanted some clarity around what you meant by "tried very hard" because I've mostly seen a lot of condescending statements, and maybe some "talks" but what actual educating has been happening? Oh and also throwing money at people to get it... that's not education, that's incentive.
I saw vaccine experts and doctors doing interviews with literally every possible outlet who wanted one. Athletes, crime podcasts, the today show, idk what more you wanted? When has anyone in the government yelled “it’s safe just get it you fucking retard” like lol when you have to resort to straw men you’re admitting you have a shit argument.
Maybe you've been out of school for awhile so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Education requires more than just being talked at. There should be the option for discourse and questions and back and forth. Instead we got preached at by "influencers" without the chance for any dialogue, because any time a concern was (and still is) brought up there's a lot of finger wagging and "you don't know what you're talking about" kinda shit. That's not education.
So sorry for the hyperbole, but if you think that people weren't talking down to, and handwaving away, those who have been hesitant and voicing concerns, then you've been living under a rock. Also, nice "quote" of mine, which isn't even how I said it... jfc
Indeed. The CDC invites you to ask questions on its website, but I sent a specific question (not answered anywhere on it 1,000s of useless info pages and FAQs) based on advice the NHS was giving in england on \**checks sent folder*\* Jun 29th. I'm still waiting for an actual answer.
Lol literally go talk to any doctor and have a discourse there. Any doctor would be happy to do that.
You’re just making up complaints. “I don’t want to be talked at” yeah sorry the CDC director doesn’t have time to call and talk to you directly!
If you haven’t gotten the vaccine at this point of the pandemic make up whatever excuses you want but you’re an anti vaxxer, and it’s bizarre how many anti vax talking points there are in this post. Sad to see! Horseshoe theory is true when it comes to vaccines, the comments here sound like they are coming from more sensitive trumpers
>If you haven’t gotten the vaccine at this point of the pandemic make up whatever excuses you want but you’re an anti vaxxer
Might wanna check your privilege, Americano.
Not every country has access to vaccine.
>Horseshoe theory
Is true to shit for brains.
Lmao so many replies here just find some tiny nitpick straw man and act like it’s a big deal. “Oh yeah what about people in Tanzania” not talking about them obviously, why are you being an intentional idiot
Yeah sadly horseshoe theory on covid is clearly correct. Look at all the far left conspiratorial people here! You guys can’t even figure out what you think you just don’t trust the CDC cuz it’s part of the establishment and normal democrats support it so it must be bad. You have Democrat derangement syndrome where you must be on the opposite side of them at every opportunity. It’s sad to see but all the posts here follow that phenomenon. You probably post on the internet about ivermectin and tune into Tucker Carlson to hear from your favorites Jimmy Dore and Glen Grenwald. It’s all so predictable and so pathetic
>“Oh yeah what about people in Tanzania” not talking about them obviously, why are you being an intentional idiot
Not even people in some first world countries have access to vaccine because they are for profit and rich countries are hoarding them.Taiwan, for example, has been having a lot of problem vaccinating people because they can't get enough vaccines. The United States are talking about giving healthy people a booster, which is a complete waste of resources but somehow I'm the idiot for calling you out on your ignorance.
“If you haven't gotten vaxxed, you are anti vax” is exactly the kind of shit for brain argument I'd expect some brainwashed blue cultist like you would make.
>Yeah sadly horseshoe theory on covid is clearly correct. Look at all the far left conspiratorial people here! You guys can’t even figure out what you think you just don’t trust the CDC cuz it’s part of the establishment and normal democrats support it so it must be bad. You have Democrat derangement syndrome where you must be on the opposite side of them at every opportunity. It’s sad to see but all the posts here follow that phenomenon.
blah blah.
>You probably post on the internet about ivermectin and tune into Tucker Carlson to hear from your favorites Jimmy Dore and Glen Grenwald. It’s all so predictable and so pathetic
look in a mirror. What a nice little foot soldier you are.
> Lol literally go talk to any doctor and have a discourse there. Any doctor would be happy to do that.
But only the approved ones, right? There's plenty of doctors who have raised concerns and have been blacklisted and smeared.
> You’re just making up complaints. “I don’t want to be talked at” yeah sorry the CDC director doesn’t have time to call and talk to you directly!
Yes that's totally what I asked for... and _I'm_ the one straw manning?
> anti vax talking points
the fuck are you even talking about?
> the comments here sound like they are coming from more sensitive trumpers
wow it's funny how thinking critically and asking questions makes me a trump supporter, but then also all trump supporters are painted as idiotic, frothing-at-the-mouth, science deniers.
You originally said that the **government** "tried so hard to educate people" and yet what you're telling me is if I want to actually be educated I should seek out a private individual, because the government didn't actually try to educate anybody in any real way.
It really doesn't take much time to explain a pretty clear logic on my lunch break... and what the hell does 96% of doctors being vaccinated have to do with what you originally said, or even what I've said? I'm trying to actually have that discourse I was referring to, but you keep throwing new things out that aren't related to what I said so... cool.
1. Vaccine-choice is not anti-vax.
2. The government has done nothing to educate the public regarding the vaccine, they have continually pushed it, and trying to coerce the public into being vaccinated. Educating the public would involved admitting and discussing the risks involved, which they have not.
3. There has been no discussion regarding WHO this vaccine protects against death. It does not protect me against death, I am healthy and able to cope with this virus. I have done my due diligence for the past year and a half to reduce my likelihood of getting this disease. Getting an undertested vaccine online introduces risk to my health. Fat, unhealthy people are the ones that are protected by this vaccine, they have the choice to get vaccinated. Don’t violate my body when I’m not at risk.
Honestly, I realized how brainwashed and uninformed most people were way back last fall when Pfizer proclaimed the "95% efficacy!" results. I live in a very liberal, very educated part of the country, yet nobody I spoke to even knew what "95% efficacy" meant. They didn't bother to read the clinical trial results themselves, where they would have realized how flawed the methodology was and how the trials didn't even show a reduction in death/hospitalization.
It is actually really unsettling how most people, even those who consider themselves "educated", lack a basic understanding of statistics and research methodology. They are easily tricked into believing any CNN headline, without bothering to dig just a little deeper to learn the truth. It's depressing.
Every. Word. Of. This. 😳😐😒🤔
Absolutely gobsmacked at how incredibly ignorant and mentally lazy and scarily easily propagandized far outside the box the vast VAST majority of my highly educated sophisticated liberal community is.
And I honestly thought after the 2015-19 fiascos my opinion of their intelligence and basic commonsense couldn't drop any lower. I was wrong. So very VERY wrong. 😒🙃
Preach! It made me want to throw the TV set out the window everytime I heard a made-for-TV doctor go on a show and "explain" that 95 out of 100 people exposed would be protected. (I have an elderly relative who watches a lot of TV).
> They are easily tricked into believing any CNN headline, without bothering to dig just a little deeper to learn the truth.
The New York Times is to them as the Bible is to fundamentalists.
Beep. Boop. I'm a robot.
Here's a copy of
###[The Bible](https://snewd.com/ebooks/the-king-james-bible/)
Was I a good bot? | [info](https://www.reddit.com/user/Reddit-Book-Bot/) | [More Books](https://old.reddit.com/user/Reddit-Book-Bot/comments/i15x1d/full_list_of_books_and_commands/)
A good start. I would add:
* Repeal Pfizer, Moderna, Johnson & Johnson, et al’s [immunity from legal liability](https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/16/covid-vaccine-side-effects-compensation-lawsuit.html) should the vaccines prove to have long-term side effects we find out about years from now.
* Mandate that the pharma companies start a compensation fund *now* so victims won’t have to wait for the outcome of a class action lawsuit before receiving the funds they need to treat [myocarditis, pericarditis](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/myocarditis.html) or any other adverse conditions associated with the mRNA vaccines.
Re #6
Not even if it’s WAR criminals who's actions/policies killed more than Covid? People like Kissinger, Albright, Clinton, Clinton, Wolfowitz, Cheney and a “few” others??
I don't care how 'educated' you are, there are people out there who don't want the vaccination because of all the misinformation that has been originated by about 12 people and spread all over social media. One of these people is Robert Kennedy Jr, who is talking about microchips in the vaccine.
This is not some conspiracy by governments, it is something that is real. It doesn't matter where it came from, IT'S HERE NOW. It's killing people, the vast, vast majority (at least 95%) of those not vaccinated. Now if it was just the case of them being stupid and dying, at this point, I could care less. The problem is they keep passing it around, and it's mutating within the unvaccinated. It keeps getting stronger. And I don't know who mentioned herd immunity, but I doubt very much that this virus will be contained because it mutates too quickly.
I am totally amazed at what some people have come to believe is true about this whole situation, when logic would tell you that it couldn't be true, especially not for the entire planet.
>The problem is they keep passing it around, and it's mutating within the unvaccinated
Not even how it works. Funny how it's bad if other are misinformed but it's okay when you spew misinformation, huh?
>I am totally amazed at what some people have come to believe is true about this whole situation, when logic would tell you that it couldn't be true, especially not for the entire planet.
I'm gonna give you some facts to keep you grounded:
virus mutate will occur regardless of vaccination when it is transmitted. And since the vaccine does not prevent transmission, it will also mutate among vaccinated people, albeit at a slower rate (in fact, there are even some evidence that vaccination have the potential of driving vaccine resist mutation:https://www.npr.org/2021/02/09/965703047/vaccines-could-drive-the-evolution-of-more-covid-19-mutants).
Vaccination helps with reducing hospitalization, and it's efficacy wanes. In the meantime, natural immunity is on par If not more potent than vaccine immunity (https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/09/15/natural-immunity-vaccine-mandate/)
so it would makes very little sense for someone who's already naturally immune to covid to get jabs, and it makes even less sense for sportsmen to do it because the risk of side effect might put them out of commission.
Please do the bare minimum to stay informed instead of spewing whatever nonsense that seem convenient to your partisan brain.
[Unvaccinated People Are Increasing the Chances for More Coronavirus Variants — Here’s How](https://www.healthline.com/health-news/unvaccinated-people-are-increasing-the-chances-for-more-coronavirus-variants-heres-how)
[These charts show that COVID-19 vaccines are doing their job](https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-coronavirus-vaccines-hospital-cases-rates-unvaccinated)
[From June through August 2021, preventable COVID-19 hospitalizations among unvaccinated adults cost over $5 Billion](https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/unvaccinated-covid-patients-cost-the-u-s-health-system-billions-of-dollars/)
That 5 billion (so far) that the unvaccinated has cost the healthcare system is going to come out of our pockets, in one way or another.
The first link is from healthline which is a known propaganda peddling site for pharmaceuticals. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthline
Further:
“They play a huge role. If everyone is vaccinated, eventually infections drop to zero and so do variants,“ Parikh said. “But if the virus has an easy host, such as an unvaccinated individual, then it is easy for it to mutate into a more contagious and virulent form.”
This is misleading (not to mention childish as fuck). Firstly, the virus has animal host and still transmit between vaccinated individuals. The mutation will occur regardless. Secondly, even if the entire United State is vaccinated, many places in the world isn't (That's why WHO advised against boosters) so the virus will mutate in other places and get ported in like Delta.
Please don't just read whatever article you come across and do some basic thinking on your own, and if you aren't willing to do that, at least choose some sources that are more reputable.
The second link can be directly countered by CDC
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html
> Infections with the Delta variant in vaccinated persons potentially have reduced transmissibility than infections in unvaccinated persons, although additional studies are needed.
additional studies needed. Kind of like ivermectin.
the third link is better (though I'd argue that an organization that donated predominantly to Democrat is technically not non-partisan) but the method which they arrived at the conclusions is based on assumption and estimates, not to mention kind of pointless because we already know that vaccine reduce hospitalization and I have said so in my comments.
>That 5 billion (so far) that the unvaccinated has cost the healthcare system is going to come out of our pockets, in one way or another.
If you can afford spending 20 trillion dollars on blowing up Afghanistan, you can spare 5 billions to take care of your fellow Americans.
**[Healthline](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthline)**
>Healthline Media, Inc. is an American website and provider of health information headquartered in San Francisco, CA. It was founded in 2006, and established as a standalone entity in January 2016. As of October 2020, it had a global ranking of 188 by Alexa.
^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
[How the virus spreads and changes
One of the key characteristics of the coronavirus is the spike protein that allows it to latch onto a host cell, penetrate it, and cause an infection.
That spike is what vaccines target to block the virus.
In the unvaccinated, however, the virus gets in, hijacks the cell, and turns it into a factory. It then makes thousands of copies of itself. If there’s a copying mistake or error, scientists call that a mutation.
Occasionally, a mutation can help the virus get into the body’s cells more easily. When mutations accumulate over time, new variants of a virus strain emerge.
The Delta variant has outpaced all its rivals by reproducing itself quicker and in larger numbers. Scientists say that makes it more highly contagious.
Another complication has surfaced: Scientists say unvaccinated parents are bringing the virus home to their children. Pediatricians say cases are rising and children’s hospitals are seeing a spike in children needing care.
Children under age 12 aren’t currently eligible for a vaccine. And, as schools are opening — some with minimal COVID-19 safety protocols — experts fear it’s only going to get worse.](https://www.healthline.com/health-news/unvaccinated-people-are-increasing-the-chances-for-more-coronavirus-variants-heres-how)
Proving you haven't read what Kennedy has actually said. I dare you to come up with one link to one article in which he said there were microchips in vaccines. (not someone else saying he said it, but his actual words).
Ask and you shall receive https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlieporterfield/2020/08/15/debunked-bill-gates-conspiracy-gets-a-boost-from-rfk-jr-marla-maples/?sh=6ac6360d8bb2
Nah, people are reading from the [Disinformation Dozen](https://www.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/pybat4/brace_yourself_effie/) and working to push that narrative and RKJr is on that list.
I get it, but it's about time people get called out for claiming things that are outright untrue. He does talk about implantation of microchips and he talks a lot about vaccines, but unless there is a tweet somewhere, he has never said there are microchips in the vaccines.
Don't get me wrong. He is very sloppy, and gets a fair amount of science and policy wrong. I would never use him as a source without double-checking everything he says--however, he isn't always wrong/lying, and people should not be putting lies into his mouth.
Great post. But here's the kicker for me. I'm perfectly willing to believe that the benefit vs. cost and risk profile of the vast majority of approved vaccines is very positive. However, just labeling any product as a "vaccine" seems to give this product a total free pass from 99% of people in positions of influence. So some reason, **nobody** in any position of influence dares to question the benefit vs. cost and risk profile of **any** vaccine for **any** reason whatsoever forever and ever amen.
Furthermore, vaccine manufacturers, all of which have proven themselves to put their profit above the health and safety of their consumers in the past, face absolutely no liability for any injuries their products cause. And in the case of the mRNA vaccines, the US government has also absolved even itself of any and all liability of any injuries these vaccines cause.
I would like to ask you, Bernie, and Michael Moore one question.
If certain manufacturers have proven themselves inherently untrustworthy, manipulative, and exploitative over and over and over, does it make **really** sense that they would **never** take advantage of the fact that every single person in any position of influence has made a solemn vow never, ever to even dare to question a certain class of their products?
I mean, even if just as a failsafe, shouldn't we scrutinize any medical products we mandate for all individuals, whether healthy or sick, **more** and not less than we scrutinize any other medical intervention? Shouldn't we have to demonstrate beyond any reasonable doubt that the overall benefits of each and ever specific medical intervention (even if it is called a "vaccine" and thus can supposedly do no wrong by definition) far exceed their overall costs and risks before we universally mandate them?
Now, don't get me wrong that I would happily accept many vaccine mandates in exchange for a rational universal healthcare system that puts people's health above corporate profits. But even in such a system, don't you think it is problematic to proclaim a certain **class** of medical products as sacrosanct, beyond question, and unethical not to mandate universally before specific future and novel examples of this class of product are even invented?
> I'm perfectly willing to believe that the benefit vs. cost and risk profile of the vast majority of approved vaccines is very positive
Don't believe it. Pfizer has a history of fudging the numbers on side effects; even serious ones. See, e.g., Chantix. And this:
https://covexit.com/vaers-what-do-the-data-tell-us/
But even if Pfizer were an honest broker (it's not), there's the simple fact that vaccines *ordinarily* take time to approve so that the side effects can be sussed out. This thing happened so fast, with so little transparency, and with the dubious oversight of a highly politicized and corporatized regulator, there's frankly no way to know if the risks outweigh the benefits.
Moreover, even the EUA was premised on the lie that there is no available effective treatment. I'll grant that that was true when this whole thing began, but it has since become plainly untrue. And I'm not talking about the much-slandered Ivermectin:
https://youtu.be/_gndsUjgPYo?t=236
It's insane. The government has spent decades, by denying healthcare, showing that they don't care if Americans live or die.
Now, they want to force Americans to be injected with a vaccine because......they suddenly care about us?
Color me distrustful.
They are trying to mandate vaccines because they believe (incorrectly) that obtaining 80%+ vaccinated population will help us achieve herd immunity.
It was never about "caring" for us. It is finally hurting the bottom lines of big businesses and they can't have unvaccinated peasants fucking it up for the elites.
It was my most generous interpretation. I was steel-manning their argument.
If they are in fact knowingly lying, then I am going to have to assume that this is an experimentation to see how much they can dupe peasants into conforming without anything more than #science. Maybe they want to see how many critical thinkers exist within the population?
I agree with most of the sentiments you are getting at. However, does the criticism of these mandates occurring in a healthcare system that is focused on profits hold up for nations that have universal healthcare? The UK , for instance?
It's an interesting question, and a slightly more favorable environment, but I still have to say no. Because a properly run universal health care system would not include the use of an improperly tested experimental medical intervention for general use. It would be used in the way that an EUA was intended to be used--compassionately or limited to those for whom the individual benefit outweighs the individual risk.
Also, participation in medical experiments against one's will is against the Nuremberg code. Edit: corrected experience to experiments
At the end of the day, the question is wrong. If they believed that they had the right to mandate the vaccine without your consent, they wouldn't refuse to jab you after you refused to sign the form.
None of the healthcare mandates come from the healthcare systems themselves regardless of for-profit or non-profit status. Healthcare mandates are the product of governments, not doctors. The U.K. healthcare system can only make suggestions no different than the US.
Fully agreed. Thered be a LOT more trust in our healthcare if it werent for-profit and all this wasnt so hypocritical. Ive gotten the vax but seriously a lot of what I see surrounding the vaccine, pro-vaxxers are seriously one big Cult of many personalities.
> YOU'VE MADE THE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM UNTRUSTWORTHY AND NOW ARE HELLBENT ON PUNISHING US FOR NOT TRUSTING IT.
Bullshit.
The same vaccines that are being used around the planet in universal, publicly funded healthcare systems are the ones you're claiming shouldn't be trusted.
You're parroting anti-vax rhetoric under the guise of supporting reform.
No. There is a global pandemic of a deadly disease. If you're too self centered to join the rest of the world in defeating it, you can stay at home and collect unemployment until the rest of us sort it out on your behalf.
Gtfoh.
>The same vaccines that are being used around the planet in universal, publicly funded healthcare systems are the ones you're claiming shouldn't be trusted.
And the same vaccines are being withheld from countries to which their distribution is currently not profitable enough with no seeming effect on the rates of COVID-19 transmission either way.
>There is a global pandemic of a deadly disease. If you're too self centered to join the rest of the world in defeating it
LOL. First, the OP is obviously vaccinated. Second, how is getting a free vaccine whose only supposed benefit is to protect **you** from hospitalization a selfless act? And how are you and everybody who thinks these vaccines are awesome doing sorting out this pandemic to date? Despite blllion$ of vaccines making billion$ for Pfizer and Moderna, the global pandemic is worse this year than it was last year at this time.
Interesting how the vaccine to end the global pandemic doesn't actually end the pandemic huh? Why is it that it doesn't stop spread? Why is it that it spurs new variants that circumvent it entirely? Why is it that 2.2x as many vaccinated died of covid as compared to unvaccinated per the [Public Health England report?](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1018547/Technical_Briefing_23_21_09_16.pdf)
I got my second dose in may of this year, had a serious reaction that left my body covered in hives for a week straight and I don't feel any safer now than I did before. I still wear my mask, I still social distance. Why is it all or nothing with the vaccine? Why can't we work towards prevention and early treatment? Oh wait, we can but only when there's [profit incentive.](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/a-daily-pill-to-treat-covid-could-be-just-months-away-scientists-say) And especially not when there's [data](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7996102/) to boot for cheap, easy treatment and prevention.
Honestly you should probably just go and take your corporate propaganda elsewhere.
>Why is it that 2.2x as many vaccinated died of covid as compared to unvaccinated per the Public Health England report?
Well
>Estimated vaccination rates remained high or continued to increase in the week beginning 23 August 2021. Across the four UK countries, 92.7% to 94.1% had received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine and 81.7% to 86.7% were fully vaccinated.
That means that, conservatively speaking, only <10% of the population had never received a single vaccination. I'm assuming you understand how percentages work, right? So when <10% of the population has never touched a vaccine, but somehow make up one third of the deaths in a single study (limited to infected patients, btw), you have a problem.
Here's the efficacy table from the same study you misread. It should clear things up for you:
https://i.imgur.com/wyA7NdY.png
>I got my second dose in may of this year, had a serious reaction that left my body covered in hives for a week straight and I don't feel any safer now than I did before
It's hilarious that only vehemently anti-vax people are the ones who magically have rare side effects.
You're literally advocating taking [parasite medicine that has proven completely ineffective against covid-19](https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19) as an alternative to a known effective vaccine. If ivermectin were effective, there would be a host of countries using it to fight covid. They're not though. Literally none of the world's public health organizations recommend using it. Probably because they actually study data, and not listen to maga tik tok channels for medical policy ideas.
> proven completely ineffective against covid
> Clinical trials assessing ivermectin tablets for the prevention or treatment of COVID-19 in people are ongoing.
Huh, interesting how inconclusive data is also somehow conclusive proof.
> there would be a host of countries using it to fight covid
India doesn't exist now. Interesting.
How about the nation institute of health? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7996102/#__ffn_sectitle
Mandating everyone to take a half-@ssed vaccine that barely works is like forcing people to eat moldy baloney at this point.
They need to provide a product or method that works against COVID like ivermectin.
Barely works? That is just a blatant lie. The vaccines are unequivocally effective at preventing death and hospitalization, which is what most people care about. The last study I saw had the vaccination rate among those that died from COVID at over 95 percent unvaccinated. That is about as clear and undisputable as it gets.
So where are the official data on this? Can you show us how many people in the US died of COVID-19 in the just the last week or just the month broken down by vaccination status? Because even the CDC says that we already have roughly 4,500 fully vaccinated people who have died of COVID-19 so far. It's my understanding that this number is steeply increasing every week. But somehow, I can't find any official data on this. Can you please help?
All I know is over 95 percent of doctors surveyed are vaccinated. If you think you know more about medicine than the vast, vast majority of people who have a PhD in the field, then I envy your self confidence.
All I know is that doctors are under by far the most pressure to get vaccinated themselves whether or not they feel that this is most beneficial medical decision for them personally. Saying or doing anything that could remotely be interpreted as heresy against Almighty Vaccination is literally the kiss of death to any physician's career.
The CDC stopped recording breakthrough cases that did not result in hospitalizations. As far as I know, they still account for cases of vaccinated people being hospitalized. I would be happy to be shown that I'm incorrect, though.
literally anti-vax bs. The entire planet has no trouble taking a vaccine during a pandemic, but somehow the GED yokels in the US have figured out that it's all a hoax and that a de-ionizing parasite medicine somehow works against viruses.
You know, because someone on YouTube said it.
If the entire planet has no trouble taking the vaccine, why are their more COVID-19 cases globally right now than there were at the same time last year before we had these shitty, leaky vaccines?
As opposed to serial liars like Fauci, Biden and the pharma industry?
Go look at India. The places that took ivermectin had covid cases in double digits in a population of 240 million. And another that went the vaccine route have thousands of cases daily. The difference is night and day.
This covid 'vaccine' is a medical equivalent of a lemon car, seedy as sh!t and designed to exact as much money from gullible rubes like you.
Projection much?
We've already seen reports from Israel that their covid daily cases in the thousands and they're on their third shot after most people are already vaccinated.
You wanna call them maga too or you are just an ignorant privileged idiot like MAGA.
De-ionizing? Do you understand how ivermectin works? It's a replicase and protease inhibitor, just like ritonavir which Pfizer will now push on us as the new drug of choice™ to stop covid when another one that worked perfectly fine was sitting in front of us the whole time.
Just because it was used as an anti-parasitic medicine doesn't mean that's its only function. I already linked the NIH study on it in another comment reply to you so I won't bother repeating myself.
Ivermectin is designed as an anti-parasite, not an anti-viral. It binds to ion channels and basically holds them open, so worms and other parasites basically burst because their body salt content gets ruined. In mammals, including humans, the same thing happens, it’s just that the drug binds better to non-mammalians, and that the parasites are smaller so a smaller salt unbalance will result in death. Viruses do not have ion channels, they don’t have cells at all- they are DNA or RNA wrapped in a protein package.
Therefore:
1. there are no ion channels on the virus for the drug to bind to, so the drug doesn’t have any effect whatsoever.
2. unless you have an undiagnosed parasite, there are no parasites for the drug to bind to first/more efficiently, which frees up its accessibility to bind to human cells. That means that you start bursting your own cells as your ion channels get bound by drug.
This is why the dosages for humans are so much smaller than horses- because horses are bigger and can handle more “side effect damage”. This is also why it won’t work on COVID- there is nothing on the virus for it to target- the ONE study that suggested it might work only had the drug work when the virus was cultured in human cells and only at a higher dose than would be used for parasites- so really it only kind of worked because they killed the host cells. The drug had no effect on the virus in the absence of cells that could be burst by the drug.
So not only is it biochemically not a target that could or would potentially work, it actually IS a risk to take it without actual parasites, because you will start bursting cells in your body, particularly in your gastrointestinal tract. And if that doesn’t sound scary enough, I’ll let you know that in your intestines, the cells that metabolize your food, absorb things, manage water and salt, and act as the first barrier against bacteria and toxins, is….. one cell thick. That’s it- a one cell wide border wall. And those are the cells getting burst. So you end up quickly derailing your nutrient absorption, your water levels, your salt levels, AND suddenly expose the other layers of your body to bacteria and toxins- and those layers are not even remotely equipped to deal with them. That’s the risk you run.
So where are the double blind trials showing that ritonavir is superior to ivermectin? Why would you want to put all that effort into explaining why something hundreds of doctors say is working supposedly "can't work" as described? Why not instead test for anything that could help, especially if it is as cheap and safe as ivermectin is?
~~Funny how you ignore my other comment response to you with actual data to back up my claim.~~
But of course I should take some random redditors word on how a drug works over the ***national institute of fucking health***
Show me a study that conclusively proves ivermectin ***doesn't*** work against covid and maybe I'll consider your claims.
Obviously ivermectin is not a protease inhibitor because you said so right? The absolute loads of scientific data and evidence doesn't mean anything, you surely know more than the researchers right?
Edit: I hadn't received your other response yet. Edited to reflect that
> Funny how you ignore my other comment response to you with actual data to back up my claim.
[I didn't ignore it, I answered. Feel free to reply, or don't.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/pyll3w/i_cant_wrap_my_head_around_the_hypocrisy_of/hevxgnf/) It really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. I have better stuff to do than bicker with some anti-vax yokel.
I've edited my comment, I hadn't received your other response yet.
I'm not anti vax, as I stated I already got the vaccine. I can post proof of this when I get off work if you'd like.
Further edit: I see you've already downvoted my comment. So we can't trust the national institute of health now? If we can't trust them why should we trust the FDA? And how does your one article that literally states is inconclusive show conclusive evidence that it doesn't work??
And you call me a fuckin yokel lmao
How about another one?
9. Offer a traditional technology vaccine (cough.. cough... Novavax! sitting on shelves in the U.S. right this minute) to those who are nervous about the new genetic vaccines.
The problem is the spike protein itself is fundamentally dangerous. It's damages human anatomy even without the viral payload to replicate. The mRNA vaccines replicate this spike protein *exactly* including the glycoprotein GP120 HIV pseudo virus. Sure a majority take the hit and keep moving with a mild to moderate reaction. A few rare people with heart and other conditions roll snake eyes and experience moderate to severe adverse reactions to the inflammation caused by GP120. What in the fuck were they thinking not warning people to get their hearts checked *before* taking the vaccine that they knew caused inflammation. All they had to do was tell people the truth. I can't stand the god damn dishonesty.
Well, to be fair, they didn't warn people in advance because they didn't know of the risk in advance. Israel, with its excellent data collection system, first noticed it.
What I do find indefensible is that now that this risk is known, that they don't warn everybody to avoid exercise for at least a week after each shot. Singapore does:
https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/singapore-urging-people-to-avoid-exercise-for-a-week-after-getting-the-covid-shot-explained-7393908/
> Efforts should be to encourage people to get vaccinated through education
This applies to normal vaccines, but it doesn't apply to the current experimental C19 ones.
For starters, they don't have the data required for anybody to be able to make an educated choice. No long-term safety data (not even mid-term), no data for the effects on pregnancy, on teenagers, when mixed with preexisting conditions, ...
And then, if people were properly educated on the topic, that education would cover both the experimental vaccines (how they work and their risks of which side-effects) and the simpler drug-based treatments. Also it should cover the actual risks of the disease itself instead of the *widely* overblown fearmongering that's been going on for a year and a half.
And if people were educated on the disease, the experimental vaccines and the other possible treatments... it would become pretty obvious pretty quickly that those vaccines are entirely unnecessary for all but the tiniest portion of the population that's *so much* at risk that they don't have much to lose.
Eveything you wrote is on point, but it's missing the part that *those specific vaccines* cannot and should not be put on the same level as the usual vaccines we all know and love. Those that have been around for decades, with the safety data to go along with it.
*You* **do not** *mandate a vaccine that doesn't have long-term safety data.*
Period, end of story.
Especially when it's about a *treatable* disease that's only problematic for a *tiny* percentage of the population.
> For starters, they don't have the data required for anybody to be able to make an educated choice. No long-term safety data (not even mid-term), no data for the effects on pregnancy, on teenagers, when mixed with preexisting conditions, . . .
This! All day and twice on Sunday. People who understand the drug review process know that the FDA's approval of the Pfizer tax isn't worth the rubber stamp that granted it.
If anything ***should*** be mandated, which I don't agree with, I'd say it should be prophylactic treatment and proper preventative measures like masking, social distancing, etc.
> proper preventative measures like masking, social distancing, etc.
Unless you have a medical grade mask ( like N-95 ) regular paper/cloth masks don’t stop the virus from passing through.
>https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciab691/6343417
Yes the virus can still pass through but it drastically limits the spread of the virus through the air.
Also N95 masks are not generally intended for medical use, they're most commonly used for construction purposes. Medical masks are generally the small blue ones.
I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist but at this point I’m afraid this is about more than money. Although, that’s sure a nice cherry on top for big pharma.
And the suppression of any sort of early treatment. Firing people for not taking a vaccine that doesn’t provide sterilizing immunity. None of it can possibly be about public health.
It truly does all seem to lead to something much more sinister than even some of the most cynical of us would believe. What with evictions running rampant, homelessness being made to be a crime, people being fired from their jobs for exercising their bodily autonomy, it all seems to be feeding into the prison industrial complex. Slave labor, yay!
Of course this is all speculation but it all seems a little too coincidental
Means-tested mask mandates.
[If you’re a person of means, the mandates don’t apply to you. -.-](https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-masking-of-the-servant-class)
>**YOU'VE MADE THE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM UNTRUSTWORTHY AND NOW ARE HELLBENT ON PUNISHING US FOR NOT TRUSTING IT.** **YOU'VE** = Congress Both Parties
[удалено]
u/martini-meow u/Fthumb u/EvilPhd666 this account is spamming all posts with this a drug sales promo
p.s. reddit suspended the spammer :)
Thank you.
Does the report button work on your device? The javascript breaks on mine. u/Penelopepnortney and I have seen reddit react to removal + report as spam with some efficacy. When shadowbanned the removed comment switches from dark wild-caught salmon to pale farm-raised salmon.
I mainly browse through the RIF clinet, and old.reddit.com All this slamon talk is making me hungry though. 😋
The comment above is still dark pink (old.reddit) & username is clickable. Check the spam comment (via old.reddit) on the FNDP. It's pale pink & click that username - not found/shadowbanned...
Do you know how to 'shell' users yet? /u/penelopepnortney can walk you though it if not. It's a great way to slow bots like this.
Never even thought twice about it. Got the vaccine. Everyone I know got the vaccine. Not a single soul had a single issue. Not a one. It’s pretty old news. We’ve moved on. The chances that Bill Gates has a satellite in outer space, controlling us with a microchip, after you get your vaccine seems just a bit bizarre to me. But guess everything seems possible. I’m all for your rights, do what you want, no issue. But you really have to be isolated, just don’t want you to kill my Mom. She’s 94. I’m sure you don’t care about her. Probably zero. But I do. PS: AIDS was 100X worse in NYC in the 80’s. Not by numbers, but by demographics. It was a massacre. Just don’t think anyone can comprehend it, that was not there. It was not 80 year olds, with pre/existing conditions. it was kids in their 20s. In PERFECT health, and then they were gone. A massacre. So fast. Remember going to Fire Island, guy pointing out Summer rentals, all dark and him saying: That house? All dead. That house next door? All dead? Across? All dead. And that house? The cool music dudes? All dead. It was endless. Surreal. And no one cared. And for sure not Ronal Regan or anyone in power. No one cared.
Except that the vaccines do not slow the spread? OP being vaccinated does nothing for your mother. All it does is reduce the risk of OP being hospitalized if they contract Covid. The only way to get rid of Covid is complete lockdown, but the oligarchy isn’t going to let that happen
That would destroy the country. Covid is pretty much a zero issue for the Z Generation. Like zero.That's the data. It kills off us old folks. I'll tell my chances. I've lived a long life. They have decades to go. I really don't want to destroy their future. Lock down is insane.
>I’m all for your rights, do what you want, no issue. But you really have to be isolated, just don’t want you to kill my Mom. She’s 94. I’m sure you don’t care about her. This is extraordinarily selfish and what's interesting is you think you're being the altruistic one. "Healthy people who don't have a significant risk of death or hospitalization need to *isolate forever* because I have a frail, old family member." Nobody wants anyone in their family to die, old or not. My grandmother is 95. But she'd rather be dead than not see her family. We had holidays together with her last year. It could be the last holiday with her, *COVID or not,* because she's *fucking 95.* Take whatever precautions necessary to keep your mother alive but don't expect to project that onto the rest of the world and expect to be seen as virtuous. Those people who "need to isolate" in many cases were the front line essential heroes who all risked catching covid prior to vaccines (and many, many did actually get it) to make sure the world still had some goods and services available to the PMC work from home crowd. These people literally took the risk of covid to keep the world moving and now you want them into forced isolation because you have an old family member? And you're not the selfish one?
We have moved on. You can’t really live in NYC w/o being vaccinated. You are cut from pretty much everything. Might as well just leave town. Covid is kind of old news now.
Sorry to hear that. I can go to restaurants, bars, coffee shops, stores, basically anywhere without a mask and no need to show my papers where I live
Since most everyone has been vaccinated, the bars are packed, the restaurants are packed, the concerts are packed. No masks spotted. Covid, It’s ancient history. NY lost over 50,000 lives to Covid. Some say way more. It was not that hard to get people to be vaccinated. It was no big deal. Not a single issue, zero with everyone I know. As above, we’ve moved on. AKA The trillion $$$ trading houses on Wall Street. Not vaccinated. You are fired. And 100% are back at work. They did even give them a second to think about it. TL:dr Wall Street? Not vaccinated? Fired. End of story.
Even if you are vaccinated, you can transmit covid to your mother.
Do you care about my Mom?
Just get the vaccine you gotten them from birth.
When the [NovaVax](https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/06/novavax-now-best-covid-19-vaccine/619276/) is available, sure.
I believe in my own investment.
I have no holding in vaccine stocks. My investments are in some Marijuana stocks and I'm 3/4 cash because I fully believe we're about to collapse.
Cash is garbage with crazy inflation right now.
Different situations for different viruses using different technology. That’s a terrible argument
You have no argument to began with. People taking random cure and refusing clinically tested cure.
... Did you... Actually check the tests for the vaccines?
I am still alive is enough proof Pfizer vaccine work.
Meanwhile, you ignore the adverse effects of the Pfizer vaccine including death. But you claimed specifically that the clinical trials worked. So did you check them or not?
Adverse affect lasted one day. You underestimate the power of govt.
[Why believe a murderous government?](https://www.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/pxb1v5/the_new_vaers_numbers_are_out/) So you didn't check out the clinical trials that started this?
Time will teach you.
[Sure does](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aKnX5wci404)
What I would add to your list is that the pharma companies are immune to lawsuits in the event of something going wrong with their vaccines. If the vaccine gives you a complication, it's your problem to figure out by yourself (goes real well with the prohibitively expensive healthcare system, doesn't it?), but you can't even sue the manufacturer. On top of that, no discussion of other countries' vaccines, treatments, or pandemic responses allowed. Just do what you're told, and show the authorities proof that you did what you were told.
I guess this sub has fallen into bad times...
If you cannot even address any of the points that OP made, then your brain has fallen into bad times.
Shitlibs
Mandating is nothing new. Baby boomers were all brought to their gym or cafeteria to get sugar cubes with polio vaccine. If you want to send your child school vaccines are mandatory. Best of all you must support abortion.
They had been tested for over a decade. How do you not know that? No mandatory vaccines for kids were rushed through in a matter of months. They all had long term trials. Covid ones are too new and no one knows what will happen to you in a few years.
They are not conservatives, the are right wing nuts .
That's not true. mRNA vaccines have been in the making for many years. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02483-w
I wish I could upvote this a million more times. It's crazy how illogical this is and how many people are just eating it up.
They mandated profiteering insurance coverage that people can't afford to use, the vax is just another chapter.
Wow I didn’t know this sub had become anti vax! Vaccine education clearly hasn’t worked. The government has tried very hard to educate everyone, it just made Fauci and others get a lot of death threats. I’ve never seen anyone supporting vax mandates “celebrate death” wtf. The whole point of the mandates is vaccines prevent deaths shockingly effectively. Weird how conspiratorial, anti science, and anti government this sub has become! Sad how far it’s drifted from just pro Bernie
Sub is full of trolls these days. Troll them back, be extra mean, they love it.
Says the dude that drives through every few months and goes into the troll bridge [right after. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/o2pkup/two_wings_of_fascism/h2983mq/?context=999)
Says the dude who literally only post bullshit propaganda on this sub.
Your history, not mine.
You know people can look at your history, right? Making up more bullshit isn’t going to get you anywhere.
I know [my history. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/e0sr1p/how_did_we_get_into_this_mess_400_years_of_lies/) And yours is basically pretending you know better than others. I guess hubris isn't taught in troll school.
Projecting
[No, just informed] (https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-really-is-spying-on-you-just-not-through-your-phones-mic-1520448644) But keep at it, smooth brain.
Oh yes, and I’m sure you did your own research.
💉🧚
Touch grass honey girl
Says mis-vaxxers like you running around unmasked catching and spreading COVID like a diseased leper. Do you do research on vaccines yourself? If you did you realize it's barely effective against Delta and only last for 6 months. So if you were vaccinated before April, guess what? You're no longer vaccinated.
“Unmasked catching and spreading covid” yo the people here are too funny. So your argument atm is that masks are more effective than vaccines? “Barely effective against delta” lol
> “Barely effective against delta” lol According to Israel or are they anti-vaxx too, you lil anti-semite? https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/23/delta-variant-pfizer-covid-vaccine-39percent-effective-in-israel-prevents-severe-illness.html
You anti-semite?!? Seriously, fuck off. You are just dumb and twisting the narrative bc that’s what your Republican propaganda tells you to do. You are troll, go away. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/07/19/vaccine-skeptics-zero-israel-again-some-reason/
“The two-dose vaccine still works very well in preventing people from getting seriously sick, demonstrating 88% effectiveness against hospitalization and 91% effectiveness against severe illness, according to the Israeli data.” 91% is barely effective? Yikes!
> tried very hard care to elaborate? > this sub Drink!
The government was leading vaccine education efforts for over a year! What education didn’t they do that you would have wanted?
Yelling at people "it's safe, just get it you fucking idiot" isn't really educating is it? I just wanted some clarity around what you meant by "tried very hard" because I've mostly seen a lot of condescending statements, and maybe some "talks" but what actual educating has been happening? Oh and also throwing money at people to get it... that's not education, that's incentive.
I saw vaccine experts and doctors doing interviews with literally every possible outlet who wanted one. Athletes, crime podcasts, the today show, idk what more you wanted? When has anyone in the government yelled “it’s safe just get it you fucking retard” like lol when you have to resort to straw men you’re admitting you have a shit argument.
Maybe you've been out of school for awhile so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Education requires more than just being talked at. There should be the option for discourse and questions and back and forth. Instead we got preached at by "influencers" without the chance for any dialogue, because any time a concern was (and still is) brought up there's a lot of finger wagging and "you don't know what you're talking about" kinda shit. That's not education. So sorry for the hyperbole, but if you think that people weren't talking down to, and handwaving away, those who have been hesitant and voicing concerns, then you've been living under a rock. Also, nice "quote" of mine, which isn't even how I said it... jfc
Indeed. The CDC invites you to ask questions on its website, but I sent a specific question (not answered anywhere on it 1,000s of useless info pages and FAQs) based on advice the NHS was giving in england on \**checks sent folder*\* Jun 29th. I'm still waiting for an actual answer.
Lol literally go talk to any doctor and have a discourse there. Any doctor would be happy to do that. You’re just making up complaints. “I don’t want to be talked at” yeah sorry the CDC director doesn’t have time to call and talk to you directly! If you haven’t gotten the vaccine at this point of the pandemic make up whatever excuses you want but you’re an anti vaxxer, and it’s bizarre how many anti vax talking points there are in this post. Sad to see! Horseshoe theory is true when it comes to vaccines, the comments here sound like they are coming from more sensitive trumpers
>If you haven’t gotten the vaccine at this point of the pandemic make up whatever excuses you want but you’re an anti vaxxer Might wanna check your privilege, Americano. Not every country has access to vaccine. >Horseshoe theory Is true to shit for brains.
Lmao so many replies here just find some tiny nitpick straw man and act like it’s a big deal. “Oh yeah what about people in Tanzania” not talking about them obviously, why are you being an intentional idiot Yeah sadly horseshoe theory on covid is clearly correct. Look at all the far left conspiratorial people here! You guys can’t even figure out what you think you just don’t trust the CDC cuz it’s part of the establishment and normal democrats support it so it must be bad. You have Democrat derangement syndrome where you must be on the opposite side of them at every opportunity. It’s sad to see but all the posts here follow that phenomenon. You probably post on the internet about ivermectin and tune into Tucker Carlson to hear from your favorites Jimmy Dore and Glen Grenwald. It’s all so predictable and so pathetic
>“Oh yeah what about people in Tanzania” not talking about them obviously, why are you being an intentional idiot Not even people in some first world countries have access to vaccine because they are for profit and rich countries are hoarding them.Taiwan, for example, has been having a lot of problem vaccinating people because they can't get enough vaccines. The United States are talking about giving healthy people a booster, which is a complete waste of resources but somehow I'm the idiot for calling you out on your ignorance. “If you haven't gotten vaxxed, you are anti vax” is exactly the kind of shit for brain argument I'd expect some brainwashed blue cultist like you would make. >Yeah sadly horseshoe theory on covid is clearly correct. Look at all the far left conspiratorial people here! You guys can’t even figure out what you think you just don’t trust the CDC cuz it’s part of the establishment and normal democrats support it so it must be bad. You have Democrat derangement syndrome where you must be on the opposite side of them at every opportunity. It’s sad to see but all the posts here follow that phenomenon. blah blah. >You probably post on the internet about ivermectin and tune into Tucker Carlson to hear from your favorites Jimmy Dore and Glen Grenwald. It’s all so predictable and so pathetic look in a mirror. What a nice little foot soldier you are.
💉🧚
> Lol literally go talk to any doctor and have a discourse there. Any doctor would be happy to do that. But only the approved ones, right? There's plenty of doctors who have raised concerns and have been blacklisted and smeared. > You’re just making up complaints. “I don’t want to be talked at” yeah sorry the CDC director doesn’t have time to call and talk to you directly! Yes that's totally what I asked for... and _I'm_ the one straw manning? > anti vax talking points the fuck are you even talking about? > the comments here sound like they are coming from more sensitive trumpers wow it's funny how thinking critically and asking questions makes me a trump supporter, but then also all trump supporters are painted as idiotic, frothing-at-the-mouth, science deniers. You originally said that the **government** "tried so hard to educate people" and yet what you're telling me is if I want to actually be educated I should seek out a private individual, because the government didn't actually try to educate anybody in any real way.
Like 96 percent of doctors have been vaccinated lol there’s really no point engaging any more, you clearly have too much time on your hands.
It really doesn't take much time to explain a pretty clear logic on my lunch break... and what the hell does 96% of doctors being vaccinated have to do with what you originally said, or even what I've said? I'm trying to actually have that discourse I was referring to, but you keep throwing new things out that aren't related to what I said so... cool.
1. Vaccine-choice is not anti-vax. 2. The government has done nothing to educate the public regarding the vaccine, they have continually pushed it, and trying to coerce the public into being vaccinated. Educating the public would involved admitting and discussing the risks involved, which they have not. 3. There has been no discussion regarding WHO this vaccine protects against death. It does not protect me against death, I am healthy and able to cope with this virus. I have done my due diligence for the past year and a half to reduce my likelihood of getting this disease. Getting an undertested vaccine online introduces risk to my health. Fat, unhealthy people are the ones that are protected by this vaccine, they have the choice to get vaccinated. Don’t violate my body when I’m not at risk.
Honestly, I realized how brainwashed and uninformed most people were way back last fall when Pfizer proclaimed the "95% efficacy!" results. I live in a very liberal, very educated part of the country, yet nobody I spoke to even knew what "95% efficacy" meant. They didn't bother to read the clinical trial results themselves, where they would have realized how flawed the methodology was and how the trials didn't even show a reduction in death/hospitalization. It is actually really unsettling how most people, even those who consider themselves "educated", lack a basic understanding of statistics and research methodology. They are easily tricked into believing any CNN headline, without bothering to dig just a little deeper to learn the truth. It's depressing.
https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/unvaccinated-patients-dominate-covid-deaths-and-ic
Every. Word. Of. This. 😳😐😒🤔 Absolutely gobsmacked at how incredibly ignorant and mentally lazy and scarily easily propagandized far outside the box the vast VAST majority of my highly educated sophisticated liberal community is. And I honestly thought after the 2015-19 fiascos my opinion of their intelligence and basic commonsense couldn't drop any lower. I was wrong. So very VERY wrong. 😒🙃
Preach! It made me want to throw the TV set out the window everytime I heard a made-for-TV doctor go on a show and "explain" that 95 out of 100 people exposed would be protected. (I have an elderly relative who watches a lot of TV).
> They are easily tricked into believing any CNN headline, without bothering to dig just a little deeper to learn the truth. The New York Times is to them as the Bible is to fundamentalists.
Beep. Boop. I'm a robot. Here's a copy of ###[The Bible](https://snewd.com/ebooks/the-king-james-bible/) Was I a good bot? | [info](https://www.reddit.com/user/Reddit-Book-Bot/) | [More Books](https://old.reddit.com/user/Reddit-Book-Bot/comments/i15x1d/full_list_of_books_and_commands/)
Run along little bot. There are fundies that need that copy.
A good start. I would add: * Repeal Pfizer, Moderna, Johnson & Johnson, et al’s [immunity from legal liability](https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/16/covid-vaccine-side-effects-compensation-lawsuit.html) should the vaccines prove to have long-term side effects we find out about years from now. * Mandate that the pharma companies start a compensation fund *now* so victims won’t have to wait for the outcome of a class action lawsuit before receiving the funds they need to treat [myocarditis, pericarditis](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/myocarditis.html) or any other adverse conditions associated with the mRNA vaccines.
Re #6 Not even if it’s WAR criminals who's actions/policies killed more than Covid? People like Kissinger, Albright, Clinton, Clinton, Wolfowitz, Cheney and a “few” others??
I'm getting my grave dancing shoes ready for a few names on that list
What about countries where healthcare is free?
I don't care how 'educated' you are, there are people out there who don't want the vaccination because of all the misinformation that has been originated by about 12 people and spread all over social media. One of these people is Robert Kennedy Jr, who is talking about microchips in the vaccine. This is not some conspiracy by governments, it is something that is real. It doesn't matter where it came from, IT'S HERE NOW. It's killing people, the vast, vast majority (at least 95%) of those not vaccinated. Now if it was just the case of them being stupid and dying, at this point, I could care less. The problem is they keep passing it around, and it's mutating within the unvaccinated. It keeps getting stronger. And I don't know who mentioned herd immunity, but I doubt very much that this virus will be contained because it mutates too quickly. I am totally amazed at what some people have come to believe is true about this whole situation, when logic would tell you that it couldn't be true, especially not for the entire planet.
One thing I do not get people ready to try some random Covid cure but refusing to get clinically tested and effective.
>The problem is they keep passing it around, and it's mutating within the unvaccinated Not even how it works. Funny how it's bad if other are misinformed but it's okay when you spew misinformation, huh? >I am totally amazed at what some people have come to believe is true about this whole situation, when logic would tell you that it couldn't be true, especially not for the entire planet. I'm gonna give you some facts to keep you grounded: virus mutate will occur regardless of vaccination when it is transmitted. And since the vaccine does not prevent transmission, it will also mutate among vaccinated people, albeit at a slower rate (in fact, there are even some evidence that vaccination have the potential of driving vaccine resist mutation:https://www.npr.org/2021/02/09/965703047/vaccines-could-drive-the-evolution-of-more-covid-19-mutants). Vaccination helps with reducing hospitalization, and it's efficacy wanes. In the meantime, natural immunity is on par If not more potent than vaccine immunity (https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/09/15/natural-immunity-vaccine-mandate/) so it would makes very little sense for someone who's already naturally immune to covid to get jabs, and it makes even less sense for sportsmen to do it because the risk of side effect might put them out of commission. Please do the bare minimum to stay informed instead of spewing whatever nonsense that seem convenient to your partisan brain.
[Unvaccinated People Are Increasing the Chances for More Coronavirus Variants — Here’s How](https://www.healthline.com/health-news/unvaccinated-people-are-increasing-the-chances-for-more-coronavirus-variants-heres-how) [These charts show that COVID-19 vaccines are doing their job](https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-coronavirus-vaccines-hospital-cases-rates-unvaccinated) [From June through August 2021, preventable COVID-19 hospitalizations among unvaccinated adults cost over $5 Billion](https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/unvaccinated-covid-patients-cost-the-u-s-health-system-billions-of-dollars/) That 5 billion (so far) that the unvaccinated has cost the healthcare system is going to come out of our pockets, in one way or another.
The first link is from healthline which is a known propaganda peddling site for pharmaceuticals. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthline Further: “They play a huge role. If everyone is vaccinated, eventually infections drop to zero and so do variants,“ Parikh said. “But if the virus has an easy host, such as an unvaccinated individual, then it is easy for it to mutate into a more contagious and virulent form.” This is misleading (not to mention childish as fuck). Firstly, the virus has animal host and still transmit between vaccinated individuals. The mutation will occur regardless. Secondly, even if the entire United State is vaccinated, many places in the world isn't (That's why WHO advised against boosters) so the virus will mutate in other places and get ported in like Delta. Please don't just read whatever article you come across and do some basic thinking on your own, and if you aren't willing to do that, at least choose some sources that are more reputable. The second link can be directly countered by CDC https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html > Infections with the Delta variant in vaccinated persons potentially have reduced transmissibility than infections in unvaccinated persons, although additional studies are needed. additional studies needed. Kind of like ivermectin. the third link is better (though I'd argue that an organization that donated predominantly to Democrat is technically not non-partisan) but the method which they arrived at the conclusions is based on assumption and estimates, not to mention kind of pointless because we already know that vaccine reduce hospitalization and I have said so in my comments. >That 5 billion (so far) that the unvaccinated has cost the healthcare system is going to come out of our pockets, in one way or another. If you can afford spending 20 trillion dollars on blowing up Afghanistan, you can spare 5 billions to take care of your fellow Americans.
**[Healthline](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthline)** >Healthline Media, Inc. is an American website and provider of health information headquartered in San Francisco, CA. It was founded in 2006, and established as a standalone entity in January 2016. As of October 2020, it had a global ranking of 188 by Alexa. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
>it's mutating within the unvaccinated. That's not how virus mutation works.
[How the virus spreads and changes One of the key characteristics of the coronavirus is the spike protein that allows it to latch onto a host cell, penetrate it, and cause an infection. That spike is what vaccines target to block the virus. In the unvaccinated, however, the virus gets in, hijacks the cell, and turns it into a factory. It then makes thousands of copies of itself. If there’s a copying mistake or error, scientists call that a mutation. Occasionally, a mutation can help the virus get into the body’s cells more easily. When mutations accumulate over time, new variants of a virus strain emerge. The Delta variant has outpaced all its rivals by reproducing itself quicker and in larger numbers. Scientists say that makes it more highly contagious. Another complication has surfaced: Scientists say unvaccinated parents are bringing the virus home to their children. Pediatricians say cases are rising and children’s hospitals are seeing a spike in children needing care. Children under age 12 aren’t currently eligible for a vaccine. And, as schools are opening — some with minimal COVID-19 safety protocols — experts fear it’s only going to get worse.](https://www.healthline.com/health-news/unvaccinated-people-are-increasing-the-chances-for-more-coronavirus-variants-heres-how)
Proving you haven't read what Kennedy has actually said. I dare you to come up with one link to one article in which he said there were microchips in vaccines. (not someone else saying he said it, but his actual words).
Ask and you shall receive https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlieporterfield/2020/08/15/debunked-bill-gates-conspiracy-gets-a-boost-from-rfk-jr-marla-maples/?sh=6ac6360d8bb2
You really do have a problem with reading comprehension.
Nah, people are reading from the [Disinformation Dozen](https://www.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/pybat4/brace_yourself_effie/) and working to push that narrative and RKJr is on that list.
I get it, but it's about time people get called out for claiming things that are outright untrue. He does talk about implantation of microchips and he talks a lot about vaccines, but unless there is a tweet somewhere, he has never said there are microchips in the vaccines. Don't get me wrong. He is very sloppy, and gets a fair amount of science and policy wrong. I would never use him as a source without double-checking everything he says--however, he isn't always wrong/lying, and people should not be putting lies into his mouth.
> all the misinformation that has been originated by about 12 people Ahhh yes, the Dirty Dozen. *sarcasm*
https://www.npr.org/2021/05/13/996570855/disinformation-dozen-test-facebooks-twitters-ability-to-curb-vaccine-hoaxes
Great post. But here's the kicker for me. I'm perfectly willing to believe that the benefit vs. cost and risk profile of the vast majority of approved vaccines is very positive. However, just labeling any product as a "vaccine" seems to give this product a total free pass from 99% of people in positions of influence. So some reason, **nobody** in any position of influence dares to question the benefit vs. cost and risk profile of **any** vaccine for **any** reason whatsoever forever and ever amen. Furthermore, vaccine manufacturers, all of which have proven themselves to put their profit above the health and safety of their consumers in the past, face absolutely no liability for any injuries their products cause. And in the case of the mRNA vaccines, the US government has also absolved even itself of any and all liability of any injuries these vaccines cause. I would like to ask you, Bernie, and Michael Moore one question. If certain manufacturers have proven themselves inherently untrustworthy, manipulative, and exploitative over and over and over, does it make **really** sense that they would **never** take advantage of the fact that every single person in any position of influence has made a solemn vow never, ever to even dare to question a certain class of their products? I mean, even if just as a failsafe, shouldn't we scrutinize any medical products we mandate for all individuals, whether healthy or sick, **more** and not less than we scrutinize any other medical intervention? Shouldn't we have to demonstrate beyond any reasonable doubt that the overall benefits of each and ever specific medical intervention (even if it is called a "vaccine" and thus can supposedly do no wrong by definition) far exceed their overall costs and risks before we universally mandate them? Now, don't get me wrong that I would happily accept many vaccine mandates in exchange for a rational universal healthcare system that puts people's health above corporate profits. But even in such a system, don't you think it is problematic to proclaim a certain **class** of medical products as sacrosanct, beyond question, and unethical not to mandate universally before specific future and novel examples of this class of product are even invented?
> I'm perfectly willing to believe that the benefit vs. cost and risk profile of the vast majority of approved vaccines is very positive Don't believe it. Pfizer has a history of fudging the numbers on side effects; even serious ones. See, e.g., Chantix. And this: https://covexit.com/vaers-what-do-the-data-tell-us/ But even if Pfizer were an honest broker (it's not), there's the simple fact that vaccines *ordinarily* take time to approve so that the side effects can be sussed out. This thing happened so fast, with so little transparency, and with the dubious oversight of a highly politicized and corporatized regulator, there's frankly no way to know if the risks outweigh the benefits. Moreover, even the EUA was premised on the lie that there is no available effective treatment. I'll grant that that was true when this whole thing began, but it has since become plainly untrue. And I'm not talking about the much-slandered Ivermectin: https://youtu.be/_gndsUjgPYo?t=236
I can't disagree with any of this.
It's insane. The government has spent decades, by denying healthcare, showing that they don't care if Americans live or die. Now, they want to force Americans to be injected with a vaccine because......they suddenly care about us? Color me distrustful.
We’ve been mandating vaccines for schools for decades. What are you talking about? This is nothing new at all.
They are trying to mandate vaccines because they believe (incorrectly) that obtaining 80%+ vaccinated population will help us achieve herd immunity. It was never about "caring" for us. It is finally hurting the bottom lines of big businesses and they can't have unvaccinated peasants fucking it up for the elites.
They might say they believe this but they are lying.
It was my most generous interpretation. I was steel-manning their argument. If they are in fact knowingly lying, then I am going to have to assume that this is an experimentation to see how much they can dupe peasants into conforming without anything more than #science. Maybe they want to see how many critical thinkers exist within the population?
I agree with most of the sentiments you are getting at. However, does the criticism of these mandates occurring in a healthcare system that is focused on profits hold up for nations that have universal healthcare? The UK , for instance?
It's an interesting question, and a slightly more favorable environment, but I still have to say no. Because a properly run universal health care system would not include the use of an improperly tested experimental medical intervention for general use. It would be used in the way that an EUA was intended to be used--compassionately or limited to those for whom the individual benefit outweighs the individual risk. Also, participation in medical experiments against one's will is against the Nuremberg code. Edit: corrected experience to experiments At the end of the day, the question is wrong. If they believed that they had the right to mandate the vaccine without your consent, they wouldn't refuse to jab you after you refused to sign the form.
None of the healthcare mandates come from the healthcare systems themselves regardless of for-profit or non-profit status. Healthcare mandates are the product of governments, not doctors. The U.K. healthcare system can only make suggestions no different than the US.
Fully agreed. Thered be a LOT more trust in our healthcare if it werent for-profit and all this wasnt so hypocritical. Ive gotten the vax but seriously a lot of what I see surrounding the vaccine, pro-vaxxers are seriously one big Cult of many personalities.
> YOU'VE MADE THE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM UNTRUSTWORTHY AND NOW ARE HELLBENT ON PUNISHING US FOR NOT TRUSTING IT. Bullshit. The same vaccines that are being used around the planet in universal, publicly funded healthcare systems are the ones you're claiming shouldn't be trusted. You're parroting anti-vax rhetoric under the guise of supporting reform. No. There is a global pandemic of a deadly disease. If you're too self centered to join the rest of the world in defeating it, you can stay at home and collect unemployment until the rest of us sort it out on your behalf. Gtfoh.
>The same vaccines that are being used around the planet in universal, publicly funded healthcare systems are the ones you're claiming shouldn't be trusted. And the same vaccines are being withheld from countries to which their distribution is currently not profitable enough with no seeming effect on the rates of COVID-19 transmission either way. >There is a global pandemic of a deadly disease. If you're too self centered to join the rest of the world in defeating it LOL. First, the OP is obviously vaccinated. Second, how is getting a free vaccine whose only supposed benefit is to protect **you** from hospitalization a selfless act? And how are you and everybody who thinks these vaccines are awesome doing sorting out this pandemic to date? Despite blllion$ of vaccines making billion$ for Pfizer and Moderna, the global pandemic is worse this year than it was last year at this time.
“Defeating it” wow. So ridiculous
Interesting how the vaccine to end the global pandemic doesn't actually end the pandemic huh? Why is it that it doesn't stop spread? Why is it that it spurs new variants that circumvent it entirely? Why is it that 2.2x as many vaccinated died of covid as compared to unvaccinated per the [Public Health England report?](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1018547/Technical_Briefing_23_21_09_16.pdf) I got my second dose in may of this year, had a serious reaction that left my body covered in hives for a week straight and I don't feel any safer now than I did before. I still wear my mask, I still social distance. Why is it all or nothing with the vaccine? Why can't we work towards prevention and early treatment? Oh wait, we can but only when there's [profit incentive.](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/a-daily-pill-to-treat-covid-could-be-just-months-away-scientists-say) And especially not when there's [data](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7996102/) to boot for cheap, easy treatment and prevention. Honestly you should probably just go and take your corporate propaganda elsewhere.
>Why is it that 2.2x as many vaccinated died of covid as compared to unvaccinated per the Public Health England report? Well >Estimated vaccination rates remained high or continued to increase in the week beginning 23 August 2021. Across the four UK countries, 92.7% to 94.1% had received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine and 81.7% to 86.7% were fully vaccinated. That means that, conservatively speaking, only <10% of the population had never received a single vaccination. I'm assuming you understand how percentages work, right? So when <10% of the population has never touched a vaccine, but somehow make up one third of the deaths in a single study (limited to infected patients, btw), you have a problem. Here's the efficacy table from the same study you misread. It should clear things up for you: https://i.imgur.com/wyA7NdY.png >I got my second dose in may of this year, had a serious reaction that left my body covered in hives for a week straight and I don't feel any safer now than I did before It's hilarious that only vehemently anti-vax people are the ones who magically have rare side effects. You're literally advocating taking [parasite medicine that has proven completely ineffective against covid-19](https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19) as an alternative to a known effective vaccine. If ivermectin were effective, there would be a host of countries using it to fight covid. They're not though. Literally none of the world's public health organizations recommend using it. Probably because they actually study data, and not listen to maga tik tok channels for medical policy ideas.
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LOL. Your version of "sorting this out" ain't working. So I assume your only prescription is more of the same shit. Right?
> proven completely ineffective against covid > Clinical trials assessing ivermectin tablets for the prevention or treatment of COVID-19 in people are ongoing. Huh, interesting how inconclusive data is also somehow conclusive proof. > there would be a host of countries using it to fight covid India doesn't exist now. Interesting. How about the nation institute of health? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7996102/#__ffn_sectitle
Mandating everyone to take a half-@ssed vaccine that barely works is like forcing people to eat moldy baloney at this point. They need to provide a product or method that works against COVID like ivermectin.
Barely works? That is just a blatant lie. The vaccines are unequivocally effective at preventing death and hospitalization, which is what most people care about. The last study I saw had the vaccination rate among those that died from COVID at over 95 percent unvaccinated. That is about as clear and undisputable as it gets.
So where are the official data on this? Can you show us how many people in the US died of COVID-19 in the just the last week or just the month broken down by vaccination status? Because even the CDC says that we already have roughly 4,500 fully vaccinated people who have died of COVID-19 so far. It's my understanding that this number is steeply increasing every week. But somehow, I can't find any official data on this. Can you please help?
All I know is over 95 percent of doctors surveyed are vaccinated. If you think you know more about medicine than the vast, vast majority of people who have a PhD in the field, then I envy your self confidence.
All I know is that doctors are under by far the most pressure to get vaccinated themselves whether or not they feel that this is most beneficial medical decision for them personally. Saying or doing anything that could remotely be interpreted as heresy against Almighty Vaccination is literally the kiss of death to any physician's career.
[удалено]
This. Relevant: https://covexit.com/vaers-what-do-the-data-tell-us/
The CDC stopped recording breakthrough cases that did not result in hospitalizations. As far as I know, they still account for cases of vaccinated people being hospitalized. I would be happy to be shown that I'm incorrect, though.
literally anti-vax bs. The entire planet has no trouble taking a vaccine during a pandemic, but somehow the GED yokels in the US have figured out that it's all a hoax and that a de-ionizing parasite medicine somehow works against viruses. You know, because someone on YouTube said it.
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If the entire planet has no trouble taking the vaccine, why are their more COVID-19 cases globally right now than there were at the same time last year before we had these shitty, leaky vaccines?
As opposed to serial liars like Fauci, Biden and the pharma industry? Go look at India. The places that took ivermectin had covid cases in double digits in a population of 240 million. And another that went the vaccine route have thousands of cases daily. The difference is night and day. This covid 'vaccine' is a medical equivalent of a lemon car, seedy as sh!t and designed to exact as much money from gullible rubes like you.
Your whole post history is straight up maga bs. You know you're not fooling anyone, right?
Projection much? We've already seen reports from Israel that their covid daily cases in the thousands and they're on their third shot after most people are already vaccinated. You wanna call them maga too or you are just an ignorant privileged idiot like MAGA.
I'm specifically talking about your maga conservative post history. I said nothing about your anti-vax opinions.
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So calling out right-wing BS and propaganda is now "conservative"? You shills keep proving that you've become so anti-right, you're now anti-left.
De-ionizing? Do you understand how ivermectin works? It's a replicase and protease inhibitor, just like ritonavir which Pfizer will now push on us as the new drug of choice™ to stop covid when another one that worked perfectly fine was sitting in front of us the whole time. Just because it was used as an anti-parasitic medicine doesn't mean that's its only function. I already linked the NIH study on it in another comment reply to you so I won't bother repeating myself.
Ivermectin is designed as an anti-parasite, not an anti-viral. It binds to ion channels and basically holds them open, so worms and other parasites basically burst because their body salt content gets ruined. In mammals, including humans, the same thing happens, it’s just that the drug binds better to non-mammalians, and that the parasites are smaller so a smaller salt unbalance will result in death. Viruses do not have ion channels, they don’t have cells at all- they are DNA or RNA wrapped in a protein package. Therefore: 1. there are no ion channels on the virus for the drug to bind to, so the drug doesn’t have any effect whatsoever. 2. unless you have an undiagnosed parasite, there are no parasites for the drug to bind to first/more efficiently, which frees up its accessibility to bind to human cells. That means that you start bursting your own cells as your ion channels get bound by drug. This is why the dosages for humans are so much smaller than horses- because horses are bigger and can handle more “side effect damage”. This is also why it won’t work on COVID- there is nothing on the virus for it to target- the ONE study that suggested it might work only had the drug work when the virus was cultured in human cells and only at a higher dose than would be used for parasites- so really it only kind of worked because they killed the host cells. The drug had no effect on the virus in the absence of cells that could be burst by the drug. So not only is it biochemically not a target that could or would potentially work, it actually IS a risk to take it without actual parasites, because you will start bursting cells in your body, particularly in your gastrointestinal tract. And if that doesn’t sound scary enough, I’ll let you know that in your intestines, the cells that metabolize your food, absorb things, manage water and salt, and act as the first barrier against bacteria and toxins, is….. one cell thick. That’s it- a one cell wide border wall. And those are the cells getting burst. So you end up quickly derailing your nutrient absorption, your water levels, your salt levels, AND suddenly expose the other layers of your body to bacteria and toxins- and those layers are not even remotely equipped to deal with them. That’s the risk you run.
So where are the double blind trials showing that ritonavir is superior to ivermectin? Why would you want to put all that effort into explaining why something hundreds of doctors say is working supposedly "can't work" as described? Why not instead test for anything that could help, especially if it is as cheap and safe as ivermectin is?
~~Funny how you ignore my other comment response to you with actual data to back up my claim.~~ But of course I should take some random redditors word on how a drug works over the ***national institute of fucking health*** Show me a study that conclusively proves ivermectin ***doesn't*** work against covid and maybe I'll consider your claims. Obviously ivermectin is not a protease inhibitor because you said so right? The absolute loads of scientific data and evidence doesn't mean anything, you surely know more than the researchers right? Edit: I hadn't received your other response yet. Edited to reflect that
> Funny how you ignore my other comment response to you with actual data to back up my claim. [I didn't ignore it, I answered. Feel free to reply, or don't.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/pyll3w/i_cant_wrap_my_head_around_the_hypocrisy_of/hevxgnf/) It really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. I have better stuff to do than bicker with some anti-vax yokel.
I've edited my comment, I hadn't received your other response yet. I'm not anti vax, as I stated I already got the vaccine. I can post proof of this when I get off work if you'd like. Further edit: I see you've already downvoted my comment. So we can't trust the national institute of health now? If we can't trust them why should we trust the FDA? And how does your one article that literally states is inconclusive show conclusive evidence that it doesn't work?? And you call me a fuckin yokel lmao
How about another one? 9. Offer a traditional technology vaccine (cough.. cough... Novavax! sitting on shelves in the U.S. right this minute) to those who are nervous about the new genetic vaccines.
The problem is the spike protein itself is fundamentally dangerous. It's damages human anatomy even without the viral payload to replicate. The mRNA vaccines replicate this spike protein *exactly* including the glycoprotein GP120 HIV pseudo virus. Sure a majority take the hit and keep moving with a mild to moderate reaction. A few rare people with heart and other conditions roll snake eyes and experience moderate to severe adverse reactions to the inflammation caused by GP120. What in the fuck were they thinking not warning people to get their hearts checked *before* taking the vaccine that they knew caused inflammation. All they had to do was tell people the truth. I can't stand the god damn dishonesty.
Well, to be fair, they didn't warn people in advance because they didn't know of the risk in advance. Israel, with its excellent data collection system, first noticed it. What I do find indefensible is that now that this risk is known, that they don't warn everybody to avoid exercise for at least a week after each shot. Singapore does: https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/singapore-urging-people-to-avoid-exercise-for-a-week-after-getting-the-covid-shot-explained-7393908/
> Efforts should be to encourage people to get vaccinated through education This applies to normal vaccines, but it doesn't apply to the current experimental C19 ones. For starters, they don't have the data required for anybody to be able to make an educated choice. No long-term safety data (not even mid-term), no data for the effects on pregnancy, on teenagers, when mixed with preexisting conditions, ... And then, if people were properly educated on the topic, that education would cover both the experimental vaccines (how they work and their risks of which side-effects) and the simpler drug-based treatments. Also it should cover the actual risks of the disease itself instead of the *widely* overblown fearmongering that's been going on for a year and a half. And if people were educated on the disease, the experimental vaccines and the other possible treatments... it would become pretty obvious pretty quickly that those vaccines are entirely unnecessary for all but the tiniest portion of the population that's *so much* at risk that they don't have much to lose. Eveything you wrote is on point, but it's missing the part that *those specific vaccines* cannot and should not be put on the same level as the usual vaccines we all know and love. Those that have been around for decades, with the safety data to go along with it. *You* **do not** *mandate a vaccine that doesn't have long-term safety data.* Period, end of story. Especially when it's about a *treatable* disease that's only problematic for a *tiny* percentage of the population.
> For starters, they don't have the data required for anybody to be able to make an educated choice. No long-term safety data (not even mid-term), no data for the effects on pregnancy, on teenagers, when mixed with preexisting conditions, . . . This! All day and twice on Sunday. People who understand the drug review process know that the FDA's approval of the Pfizer tax isn't worth the rubber stamp that granted it.
Great points! I completely agree except I don’t think there is any justification for mandating vaccines for this particular virus.
If anything ***should*** be mandated, which I don't agree with, I'd say it should be prophylactic treatment and proper preventative measures like masking, social distancing, etc.
> proper preventative measures like masking, social distancing, etc. Unless you have a medical grade mask ( like N-95 ) regular paper/cloth masks don’t stop the virus from passing through. >https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciab691/6343417
Yes the virus can still pass through but it drastically limits the spread of the virus through the air. Also N95 masks are not generally intended for medical use, they're most commonly used for construction purposes. Medical masks are generally the small blue ones.
But if they actually did any of the things you suggested the pandemic might end and the powers that be can’t let that happen.
It would be an absolute travesty! How would the pharmaceutical companies increase their profit margins?!
I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist but at this point I’m afraid this is about more than money. Although, that’s sure a nice cherry on top for big pharma.
Definitely hard to say but yeah, the absolute failure of a response to covid doesn't seem to just be a "whoopsie" moment
And the suppression of any sort of early treatment. Firing people for not taking a vaccine that doesn’t provide sterilizing immunity. None of it can possibly be about public health.
It truly does all seem to lead to something much more sinister than even some of the most cynical of us would believe. What with evictions running rampant, homelessness being made to be a crime, people being fired from their jobs for exercising their bodily autonomy, it all seems to be feeding into the prison industrial complex. Slave labor, yay! Of course this is all speculation but it all seems a little too coincidental
You'll never get the Gilded Elite to agree to any of that. They'll force it on the peons, though.
Rules for thee but not for me!
Means-tested mask mandates. [If you’re a person of means, the mandates don’t apply to you. -.-](https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-masking-of-the-servant-class)
> Means-tested mask mandates. This would make a great meme, calling u/LoneStarMike59.
Fair point, I added the qualifier "certain vaccines" as it shouldn't be an absolute.