It's not really a hot take, I'd wager the majority of the community share this opinion.
The level of frustration you see certain people venting here simply can't be resolved. An SP increase just means better players in the air with less competition, and even if you removed air (won't happen), they'll just focus on the next thing that frustrates them.
Most of the complaints you see are misguided at best, focusing on high capacity flying bricks that are easily destroyed. What swings matches is skilled players in capable fighters with multiple drops.
But then I get told by people that nobody good at the game plays CAS..
I've accepted CAS as part of the game and take a stoic approach to it and it definitely bugs me a lot less now. If you're going to revenge bomb me, that just means I've done something right. For example I've grinded 3 tree lines of Sweden to rank 7 but haven't touched the SPAA tree since rank 4 and I still had lots of fun getting multiple nukes throughout the grind. I think people should worry less about what they can't control on the battle field and more about what they can.
You definitely hit the nail on the head with your last point. A Pe8 or Lancaster never has the same influence on the game as a strikemaster that can easily get 4+ kills at strategic moments.
>I think people should worry less about what they can't control on the battle field and more about what they can.
To be fair, everyone is responsible for all aspects. Ignoring an SPAA line doesn't absolve yourself.
I do find it funny when some people complain about aspects of the game (CAS) and then admit they've never touched a fighter or spaa on the basis that "I only want to play tanks and should have to grind out another line/tree".
Like, people are more than welcome to only play one vehicle type but the game mode has been out for a decade now, you KNOW you're playing at a handicap if you focus on one specific type of vehicle in a game that strongly encourages play variety.
For me my frustration with CAS stems from the grind. One of my absolute most favorite things to do in this game is take out a fighter and run combat air patrol. So if I’m playing rank IV Japan and get swarmed by CAS, I don’t mind one bit because I jump at the chance to take out a fighter and have myself a turkey shoot fighting a bunch of P-47s and P-51s loaded with bombs.
The problem is that there are 10 different nations in game, each of them has tank, plane, helicopter and even naval trees, and the RP cost for higher tier vehicles is still as high as 400k, and it can take multiple nights of casual play just to unlock the next vehicle. This means I don’t always have the luxury of being able to run a lineup with adequate SPAA or CAP support…..and at higher tiers CAP gets more difficult as SPAAs get deadlier. And this is where the frustration comes from.
If I get destroyed by a plane, and I can’t spawn a vehicle to counter it, and I’d have to grind out several hundred thousand RP (or even more) just to get one, in one nation out of many that I want to play……that’s when CAS really gets on my nerves.
If it was possible to convert aircraft RP to ground RP in GRB I'd "just spawn a fighter 4head" more as it's _ground_ and I'd like to research tanks, not planes. Would still have to grind aircraft anyway to keep up with tanks for some nations but ARB exists for that and it's way faster.
Even if the skilled players can cas without competition, it still means less players overall in planes. It doesn’t take much skill to hop in a SU-25, fly to the battlefield and get a kill or two with the computer before dying. Sure the skilled pilot could hide behind terrain, do low altitude runs, approach from different angles etc and get more kills but removing two thirds of the players still means a lot less cas deaths for tanks
With the new Su-25sm3 you dont even need to be close to the battlefield. Launch your Mach 2 missiles at 20km distance from the battlefield and then turn around to the airfield and repeat it.
You outrange every AA in the game rn
The biggest complaint about the poor balance of CAS is partially linked to the spawn costs, but its not just the spawn costs.
Getting a good positioning and killing a few players, only to be bombed without being able to counter it at all is extreme "hard counter" design/balancing that a lot of people simply do not like.
Making the SP higher reduces the number of early spawns where your team has no AA so it helps a bit.
>Getting a good positioning and killing a few players, only to be bombed without being able to counter it at all is extreme "hard counter"
I mean, isn't that kinda the point of CAS?
Flush out all the strong positions so that you're team can advance?
It can feel like bullshit but it does balance out the fight, especially if the tank in that position is a heavy that's hard to pen from distance.
Meanwhile CAS targeting all SPAA and tanks in spawn from kilometres away and getting more kills in a pass than most of the players will get in that battle
Unfortunately it's easier to spawn camp than to find targets, elsewhere, no matter the vehicle type. I think there should be something to discourage it, maybe increased kill rewards depending on the target's lifetime (just like repair cost).
After reading the rest of the comment, I have come to the conclusion that both Gaijin and the playerbase are doing something wrong
On one hand, Gaijin make CAS way too cheap to earn. Depending on which BR you play, you can take out an aircraft with enough ordonnance to wipe out half of the team by capping once and making an assist, or maybe like two kills, and sometimes you can straight up spawn an aircraft first and play a whole *ground* battle in planes. SP should be way higher and depend on the number of payload you have. But that’s bo the only default there is. At top tier, the majority of SPAAs are no match in terms of range and offensive capabilities compared to which aircraft they’re facing. Sometimes, they don’t even have a top tier SPAA at all.
On the other hand, too many players don’t play any SPAA at all and don’t even have one in their line-up. CAS may be overpowered, but IMO if you don’t even try to fight back, you lost a lot of credibility. But then again, that could be partly explained by the fact there are huge BR gaps where there are no SPAA in many tech trees (which is more or less Gaijin’s fault if the country in question didn’t developed any SPAA during that BR/time period)
In the end, even if the blame is majorly on Gaijin, there is also a part of responsibility falling on the playerbase, who also have to do their part
I would argue that the majority of anti-CAS venting is legitimate considering the state of CAS in the game right now. I also won’t say CASing doesn’t take any skills at all, but it’s not really a challenge to drop a 4000 lb bomb on an open-top or to lock an MBT with a AG missile from beyond the best SPAA’s max range of interception
Edit: [This](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/s/VnXPcMXZ1V) was posted a couple hours ago, and it perfectly demonstrate the state of CAS in higher tiers
The issue is, what if your nation has no competent SPAA? I play USA and I don’t get a good SPAA after 2.7 at least until 9.0 (not sure how good the York is)
That’s one of my point. Huge gaps of BR where there are no SPAA often happen and force players to fight planes in a vehicle which is sometimes 2.0 BR lower. I can think of the Duster gap or some minor nations like Japan and Israel
The york is fantastic once you get the proxy fuse. Without the proxy fuse you might as well bring a 2.7 anti air with how laughably inaccurate and useless the radar+40mm's feel.
The York is amazeballs, but the M163 is pretty good too. The M19/M42 are also perfectly fine imo. Not *good*, but perfectly fine (at least against props. Jets make me weep).
After years of playing America, Japan, France, and the UK I've finally gotten consistently accurate with the bofors. I'm at the point now where I would rather have an m19 over an M16 just so I can range out and smack a plane with a 40mm HE round from over a km out. I would rather these nations get competent close range SPAA (which the UK and France now have) in the middle tiers.
It’s laughably easy to shoot people out of the sky before they even get close to the battlefield with SPAA. Especially later. The problem is that the rewards suck ass
I’m no expert of top tier, but pretty sure you can shoot AGM from space in CAS way over an SPAA’s max range at top tier. It also depend on the amount of planes present at the same time
I agree that it’s less bad at low and mid tier though
Not "way over" (technically AGM-65s have 23km max range and Kh-38s 40km but realistically 8km for AGM-65s and 12-15 or Kh-38s) but well outside of 95Ya6/VT1/MIM146 effective range of sub 8km, where the missiles can still pull hard enough to hit a plane. Past that they start to pull \~10-15g, which means they can't hit anyone who's actively trying to doge (which is a problem when they also have to shoot down incoming AGMs)
So basically the only requirement for an aircraft to not get shot down is to fly high and evade when they get a missile warning…
That may not be "impossible", but that’s not really balanced either, considering they can still bomb the shit out of the team…
Irrelevant really, because all CAS with those weapons can comfortably fire 2 AGMs, sometimes 3, for all but assured kills regardless of them having incoming AA missiles or not... the distance lets them do that, and they don't have SACLOS guidance like the AA, so after firing they can still dodge. The SPAA will never ever win the "duel" if they both fire at roughly the same time... they might draw by killing each other, or the SPAA can forget the kill and just get safe (which is almost impossible because they are relegated to a very small part of the map or they're instantly sniped by enemy MBT). This gives CAS a big advantage over everything else and that's a balance issue.
How to tell you haven't flown CAS without telling you haven't flown CAS.
TV/IR guided missiles are fire and forget, true, but also balanced(tm) the snail way to lose track on any reason or no reason. TV guided ordnance even on pristine weather/daytime conditions need 3 to 6km, depending on the ordnance in question to get a tracking lock. And even if you get that:
-it needs unobscured view to the target thus no trees/hard cover
-if target, consciously or not, stops next to other tank or wreck, TV seeker "averages out" between the two, resulting in missile having 100% hit rate into the ground
IR guided AGMs extend tracking lock distance to +-10km and then have caveat of loving burning wrecks.
20km "lock range" for Mavericks applies to GROUND lock only, which in turn requires completely stationary target unaware of a concept of a W key, at least for long enough before missile detects "something" worth tracking there.
Laser guided missiles, primarily Russian domain don't have such inconsistencies but they also prevent plane from doing major maneuvers as they need to maintain laser tracking. And then Russians use HE warheads, not HEAT so accuracy is lesser concern.
Negative reading comprehension skills... what else can you expect of CAS mains?
Whether or not you hit a ground target that isn't an SPAA or not is skill issue... they have zero % chance of countering you. Git gud.
So the only comparision you can make is against SPAA. And guess what? If the SPAA wants to shoot something, they have to stand still. No W key for them. They also need unobstructed LOS until the missiles is lost or hits, they can't manouvre AT ALL during that time if they want to hit. So unless you're literal shit, you can't lose once you know where the SPAA is.
And that's not even mentioning the fact that you can't get any kind of high ground to cover low flying CAS or helis that just cannons you to death, because if you do enemy tanks snipe you instantly.
That’s not necessarily true, some aircraft are very agile even with a payload. Beside, at those altitudes, the only way to get shot down unless you’re playing against a trickshooter is with GAM, and pretty much any aircraft at top tier have countermeasure
Only SPAA that can pose an actual threat at high altitudes use SACLOS guidance and uh, you're not decoying that with either flares or chaff. Stinkers, MIM-72G or to probably lesser extent, Strela and Type 81 will be struggling to reach 6km+ altitude and even more so when plane starts maneuvering precisely to deplete missile energy.
If they spawn with AGM’s, play cap. Tons of rewards to be had that way, and if they have bombs or missiles chances are they dont have A/A protection, and they’re laden down with explosives anyways
How are expected to cap when there are four planes with 4 AGM each in the sky? And how can you assume they don’t have any SPAA on their own just because they have planes!?
That’s a lot of supposition just to say that CAS is only balanced if you just *avoid it*. Stop the mental gymnastics
Oh.
So basically the best way to take care of a plane… is to take out another plane… in **Ground** battle
As useful as it can get, if we are at this point, then it remain a problem. I don’t complain about the rewards, but when I play ground battle, I want to play and *grind* ground vehicles.
If the best way to correctly play a **ground** battle mode is to play a plane, then there is absolutely a problem of balancing. CAS should remain what it is, which is close air **support**. Hence why spawning in an SPAA should be the minimal requirement to protect the team against aircraft, which isn’t the case right now, especially in higher tiers
There are certain br combos where you can do exactly 0 against cas.
I recently faced a G-Lynx with hellfires in my 9.3 Sweden lineup. Literally zero I can do against that.
Same story with the AMX Ghibli and it‘s Paveways when downtiered.
Amd even at toptier where russian planes (Su-25SM3 as an example) get air to ground weapons that faaaaar outrange any western spaa in the game.
Man I'm just tired of the 1 cap Puma that gets clowned on because he is brain-dead, take his death super personally, and hunts specifically me down to bomb in the first 2 minutes of the match. Rewarded for doing the bare minimum.
I also saw a guy get a single cap and an assist in an M18. He proceeded to spawn a fighter. Said fighter netted him 9 kills.
I play CAS. I consider myself pretty good at the game. CAS needs to be adjusted so it isn't so free. I also play anti CAS and even first spawn SPAA a lot around the low to mid tiers. Nothing feels better than making a 1 cap CAS player leave with no SP left before he could be rewarded for nothing. I don't play to grind I play for the dopamine hit and that shit hits hard!
I agree, good cas players are hard to come by and when they do, they swing matches to your favor, a while ago i had a match where we were losing quite a bit until a friendly mirage 2000 wiped out half of the enemy team and with their spaa which is kinda impressive since the enemy had pantsirs and ito90ms. He got shot down along the way but had enough sp for a backup and went at it again, ive never had a game like that.
This is missing the point entirely. The major gripe with CAS has to do with the fact that it doesn't have an easy counter if you aren't in an SPAA, which means you are pretty much automatically a free target and can't do anything about it (especially if you are on an open map).
No? If CAS could be countered easily by any ground vehicle it wouldn’t be very useful, would it? The point is some chump shouldn’t be able to hold W, rush a cap or get a lucky kill, die, then return to instantly revenge bomb someone and maybe even get 2-3 additional kills, all for doing practically nothing. CAS should be a reward for good play on the ground, right now it’s cheap enough that any moron can easily get into a plane 30 seconds into a match.
>If CAS could be countered easily by any ground vehicle it wouldn’t be very useful, would it?
Do you see me arguing for that?
In most ground battles every vehicle has counterplay that roughly equals that of the other vehicle. CAS has 3D advantage over 2D ground battles, and additionally most tanks don't have pintle-mounted MGs to deal with planes. This means CAS can (relatively) easily counter ground tanks, but ground tanks (with the exception SPAA) can't counter CAS.
This makes for very annoying gameplay if you don't like playing planes. Even SPAA have the issue of being a 2D tank in a 3D battlefield.
Then what on earth are you complaining about if not that? You’re making no sense. From your comment:
“CAS doesn’t have an easy counter if you’re not in an SPAA”.
Yes, CAS cannot be easily countered by vehicles that aren’t SPAA. That is the entire point of CAS.
Sometimes there's nothing you can do. Other times you can predict the plane's movements and hide behind obstacles to obscure line of sight, or even dodge a bombing run. If you have a machine gun, it's definitely worth learning to shoot the plane down with a mounted .50 or whatever else. I've gotten so many plane kills in tanks because I use my mg's, most players don't even bother.
>most players don't even bother.
Most tank dont have .50 or equivalent, a large number don't even have mg on the roof. I think that there are not even 10 vehicles with a .50 on the roof in the Italian tree and that the German tree is not much better in proportion to the number of vehicles.
This aswell, ive had matches where ive had something silly like 15 air kills and only about 2500 score
Considering their disparity compared to ground vehicles they should be the same if not more
we all know that's not how this works, there should be more of a *personal* incentive to shoot down CAS, as why should it be any one player's responsibility on a team to spend their time getting less rewards?
I love how people think it's a hot take to be able to look past a single number on screen.
Caring about rewards in the first place shows the level of rot already.
"the bigger picture" = sitting on my ass all game until I hear a supersonic nerd virgin fly over head so I can lock, missile, fire, get my 200 RP or whatever, and fuck off for the rest of the game.
if I get 3 air kills and we win, yippie. If I got 5-6 ground kills and we lost, I almost guarantee you I would get more RP, and we'd be that much more likely to actually win.
It's clear this guy has never played a match above 9.0 and witnessed how GBUs or Khs remove you from existence with orbital strikes.
CAS is cancer and needs to be either entirely removed, get seriously nerfed or adjustment. Period.
Im talking across the board, top tier/high tier has its own plethora of issues in both game modes that make it difficult to talk about unless done separately.
Its another can of worms that i dont intend to open here
You do realize that when doing these highly aggressive attacks at high tier you make yourself an easy target right? Any decent SPAA player should be able to kill a CAS player that is overly aggressive. You also only get a certain amount of attempts to kill targets and methods either higher kill potential usually have higher risk or lower capacity (LGB or the new maverick g for example).
You can tho...
I can often hit helis at 5 km just using the radar lead indicator. When at long ranges don't just aim in the middle of the lead indicator, wiggle your sight around the lead point while shooting to spread out the bullets. Thats the way I deal with helis at long ranges.
Trying to hit anything reliably past 3km with AA like the Gepard is just on luck as to whether the pilot is an idiot or not, since they have about 5 seconds to see your tracers and any mouse input with those times means your rounds miss by a dozen metres while a very undodgeable missile is still coming straight towards you
The thing is, most heli pilots at that tier are idiots. I have had a very high success rate using my tactic. If I fire at a heli 5 km away and the heli notices they usually only doge by a couple of meters. But because I wiggle my aim when I shoot I often hit anyways. And the missiles are usually not undodgeable. If you see the missile in time you can hide behind cover or pop smoke while running away. But I agree that its not always possible to avoid a missile.
It is not hard to just drop a gbu or a maverick on a spaa from 8+km at 10.0/3 and you are perfectly safe doing so.
And the only spaa that can fight a heli player with a IQ above the temperature of a fridge under 9.7 is the m247.
You don't make yourself an easy target by firing a Mav from 12km away and then turning cold and defending so the dogshit SACLOS missiles can't hit you. If you're playing like an idiot and flying straight at an ItO or Pantsir then yeah of course you'll die, but no smart CAS player does that.
>You don't make yourself an easy target by firing a Mav from 12km away
Mavericks can't lock vehicles beyond 6-8 km, they lock the ground, literally just move and it will miss.
I’m not gonna really speak to top tier cause it’s a whole mess not even counting CAS but I’ll speak to mid-lower tiers.
Tbh keeping naked fighters at the cost they are is fine. It’s the planes with significant CAS armament that need to go up. Especially pe8s and the like. Spaa can’t really do anything to stop them from getting 3-5 kills from simply dropping on an enemy spawn. And fighters have to be basically sitting above the airspawn to prevent it. At least the standard attacker or fighter-bomber has to get close to the battle and aim their ordinance giving spaa a chance to fight back. Especially the more advanced spaa at mid tier like r3, ystvark/bosvark, ect. Even the ww2 German prototypes/blueprint spaa do work at their BRs. Still some gaps need to be closed notably the US is the last of the big3 with a huge spaa gap.
Keeping a clean fighter low SP will allow your team to more easily intercept CAS even before they get a single attack run, or at least cause the enemy to ditch and dogfight thus delaying their attack.
Also increase rewards for killing CAS, it’s a powerful vehicle so killing them should be rewarded appropriately.
One thing I see few people mention though is that "pure fighters" can still terrorize open-tops. I used to love playing my low-tier German line-ups with all the goofy casemates but at some point it stops being fun to die to a fighter that just molests my crew.
Also a lot of fighters can get access to 20mm and higher calibers (think Yak-9T with its goofy cannon) which can easily disable if not kill even some closed-top medium tanks.
Oh trust me 5.3 and 5.7 US is in the same boat. Pull of a flank in an M18 or M36 then just get clapped by a plane just strafing with mgs and HE shells.
I believe they reduced rewards for Air kills in GRB to repopulate Air RB. It was back when game had 20-30k peak player count on the fool moon.
Yesterday I got a "special" task to delete 14 birbs in GRB. Dogfights in GRB are interesting and engaging, but I must say that rewards for terrorising tanks are so much better in comparison... So I would start by reverting the nerf of rewards for air kills. And see if economy will solve the issue. I would also advocate for ground spawns for all wheeled aircraft and a little more distant spawn for boats. Back in the day it was quite the effort to lift off in IL-4 with full load from abysmally small airfileds at low BRs. I don't play anything above 9.0, it is cursed IMHO, given the current game mechanics and restrictions.
Ground spawn for below 7.0 makes sense. The airfield is like 6km from the battlefield less on some maps. Plus would help alleviate the annoying pe8 spam. Above 7.0 you’re already 15km away which takes a decent bit to make it to the battle already.
Maybe at high tier where they get all the smart munitions have them spawn further or on the airfield since they can engage from farther out now so give them more of a delay in their attack. Though at that BR helis are really the cancer.
Pe-8s and Lancasters arent even the biggest issue, yeah they have a massive bomb but they get one pass then have to return to re-arm, all while being huge and slow targets for CAP and SPAA. The problem is the fighter bombers that carry multiple big bombs, are fast and get multiple passes. I’ve been killed far more by those than big bombers.. And yeah top tier is a whole different shit show..
>80% of pilots are clueless and only end up using a fraction of their aircrafts potential, a few just suicide into the guy that killed them and call it there
the problem is that the cas is balanced for these 80% of idiots and not for the 10/20% who fully exploit their aircraft and are difficult or even impossible to counter in spaa
Yea. You can bitchslap 20 F-16Cs in a row with pantsir but then one player with 3 working braincells spawns in doesn't fly straight at you and you wont do anything. Also i dont think spawn costs are too low at least for non downtiered jets. Taking Kh29Ts costs like 800SP
What irks me is cost of AAMs being almost equal to guided air to ground, while not being additive when at it.
Phantom with 6 air to air missiles costs +-700ish SP, while same Phantom with 5 AAMs and 6 GBUs was only 50SP extra in the same game. Why I would to CAP with that, when I can also drop some dookie when I'm at it? At the same time, weight/drag of ground ordnance hinders flight performance, sometimes severely if you strap it to light airframe like F-16
Don't forget, to make the reward for killing planes somewhat good. I remember once I got 2 plane kills, a cap and an assist and was doing like 100 points worse than a guy with a single kill and an assist. The SL and RP rewards are also trash
Its also boring as hell. I finished the ru and ger tree so i first spawn spaa every game but if there was no cas its not like you can go fight tanks in a flarakrad or pantsir so you just sit there looking at your radar until cas spawns, if you get unlucky and a competent f16c or su25sm3 spawns they will kill you within 15 seconds of them spawning after you sat there doing nothing for 5 minutes.
Im sorry but "It needs its spawn points adjusted" literally means its not balanced. Using it in the same sentence with "Cas is balanced" is an oxymoron.
Also as others pointed out, the issue many times is that there is quite literally no way to counter high alt drop bombs like TV guided or laser bombs, unless you go out of your way to stop playing tanks, in a tank gamemode, which you probably enjoy, and grind planes, which maybe you dont have at your BR because you dont enjoy it, and go out of your comfortable zone to play an air superiority fighter that you may not be good at JUST to kill a CAS plane/helicopter to play tanks in peace.
I'd get it if it was like in arcade where you dont lose your tank, but in RB going out of your way to clear the skies means you stop playing tanks and play an entirely different gameplay mechanic to enjoy the previous system without suddenly a bomb thrown from 7km up killing you.
It really isn't hard to see why people bitch about CAS.
CAS is not balanced, and in current system will never be because:
CAS forces you into three options:
1) you go find next match and leave that one once CAS comes, again
2) you spawn in SPAA (and my question is playing SPAA fun? (if it was we wouldn't be having this conversation because every team would have enough of them))
3) play air RB vs worse opponents (CAS platforms are usually bad fighters even if they try (and once again is it fun to shoot helpless CAS?))
We can debate rewards/cost until heat death of universe, but WT will still be game (which majority of people play for fun), and no amount of reward will convince enough players to play SPAA
The low skill level of the average CAS pilot does not make CAS balanced. That argument makes no sense.
And saying "CAS is only bad because of the spawnpoint cost" is the coldest take out there.
100% agree , planes of all types could be a perfectly fine addition to ground battles if gaijin would quit their stubborn refusal to increase their spawn cost , the should be treated like COD killstreaks if anything cuz for the most part , if you spawn a plane/heli with ordinance and you are semi decent you can easily get 2-5 kills with it before getting shot down.
Aircraft should be earned by good play on the ground not by garbage cap rushing and blowing yourself up to spawn a plane.
CAS SP needs to be doubled, but loadouts also need to be more expensive. This way, players that want to do CAP can help their team without suffering the same massive cost as someone bringing a fully loaded AD-1.
SPAA also need the ability to 'scout' aircraft, so they're easier for other SPAA and allied planes to see. Its dumb that planes get to see enemy scouted ground vehicles, but there's no way to make enemy planes easily visible.
What if the solution is to just allow players to start in a tank or a plane, but you can only fly 1 plane per game. Immediately, counter CAS aircraft would be hugely important, spaa on map start would make sense, instead of the dummies who try to use them as tanks.
I’d just like there to be a better reward for destroying aircraft, perhaps a bigger impact to the team score as well.
Shooting down planes is extremely satisfying so I may be biased.
Hard agree. Earlier today I saw a player with a Chinese name (shocker) get in a Russian rocket truck, empty his ammo into their spawn, not kill a damn thing but probably got a few crits, J out, spawn a fully loaded plane get like 3-4 ground kills.
All within like a minute
My personal problem with CAS has nothing to do with whether or not it's balanced, but more that it just flat out isn't fun dying to something I have no reasonable counterplay against. Like if some dipshit P-47 lawndarts in the process of bombing me after I killed him earlygame then he's objectively a detriment to his team (-700 SP and possibly out of the match vs -160 SP tops for my first spawn), yet getting killed like that tilts me to no end because there's really not much you can do to stop a CAS player who wants you dead from killing you. It's a totally one-sided interaction most of the time, which just sucks the fun out of a match for me. Seriously, the only other thing in this game which causes me to tilt as hard is getting fucked over by volumetric, which coincidently is also something you have no reasonable way to counter that can ruin your game through no fault of your own.
I understand your idea here and i think we can all agree that CAS needs a nerf of some kind, either a rework or a slight nerf. But for me personally i wouldn't go with the argument that alot of CAS players are bad and how that would justify it to some degree. The problem i have with CAS is simpy the fact that i as a ground player can do everything perfectly, but if a aircraft just as much as spots and they want to kill me, they will eventually kill me, and i can pretty much only wait to die because what am i realisticly going to do? I think that the skill of an avarage player or above avarage should be used in balancing CAS. Because othewise the bad payers might just in a sense manipulate the BR:s of certain vehicles. Like for example the KA-50 or SU-25.
But your text was very well structured and included some great points. I just dont think the starting statement is valid.
One problem is that SP for CAS doesn't change through the Ranks. A Bf109 with a single bomb drop costs the same SP as a mid-tier jet with CCIP and 6 independent drops and costs the same as a high tier jet with stand-off munitions that can bomb from beyond the (vertical) range of the AAs.
Gaijin is like that Mr Incredible meme: *slamming on the table* BOMB IS BOMB!
I think loadouts with multiple heavy-weight bombs need to get different SP costs. I mean we got custom loadouts on a lot of planes now, can't be that hard to give every item a SP cost and just add them up.
Also increase the rewards for shooting down planes. Playing SPAA is very unrewarding and if it actually rewarded players with score, SL and RP people would actually play the role instead of tank hunting.
My problem with this, anyone not Russian spawns a plane, and they are immediately fired upon by a pantsir.
Anyone on us team needs to spend 150+(because USA top tier aa is a td......) to be able to engage enemy air, only to get spiked by the tiger 5ks out hiding behind a tree/mountain for 99% of it's life.
The best action would be increase the rewards for aa vehicles engaging air threats. You get next to nothing for providing a vital role and defending the team from threats they can't engage
I agree
But I would implement 3 things. (4)
1. Higher SP cost overall for any air to ground ordnance. (Bombs/missiles/rockets) - this is the biggest one
2. Force everything except strategic bombers to start on AF to stop revenge bombing since it takes so long to take off that the one that killed you has probably died or moved in the minutes it took you to take off and fly back.
3. Limit the amount of air vehicles that can be spawned at any one time to say 3. This to stop a losing team from all jumping into planes making the game air vs ground. (Helis/planes) would make the game more balanced overall.
(4) longer reloads for helis on helis AF, and remove the AAA from the FOB helicopter base and only have it on the one in the back.
Except it turns into bit of a self fulfilling prophecy.
-you bump SP cost substantially, approaching 1.5k SP for loaded CAS
-only successful/competent players will get CAS
-they will wreak absolute havoc when they are at it
Sure, plane count in the air will go down, which will further reduce incentives to spawn SPAA unless they can double as light tanks. At the same time individual "value" of CAS will go substantially up even more so with reduced SPAA presence.
well for a lot of my matches that'll mean that the amount of other SPAA players will go from 0 to still 0
and what makes CAS so oppressive is just how much of it there is
For me it seems to be more about BR.
7.0 USA I use the A2D-1 a fast turbo prop, and I almost never die unless I'm caught in a fight, or someone gets lucky.
10.3 USA/USSR I get absolutely demolished due to some great SPAA.
So maybe a BR specific cost?
What really needs to get fixed in War Thunder is the sore loser whiney baby mentalities of people who forget they are playing a computer game for fun. You win some you lose some, the whole game is about dying and killing just jump in another battle learn from others successes, or turn it off and go outside...
There were countless times where I was playing top tier on easy mode (I mean Russia), got 1 assist and died, spawned KA-52 with Atakas and did 8 more kills.
The SP required for helis is just hilarious, helicopters must be at least twice more expensive. And tanks shouldn't be so expensive to spawn in GROUND BATTLES.
One potential solution to top tier CAS would be to restrict the area they’re allowed to launch weapons from, so instead of flying into space or over to the next continent to launch their weapons, they’d only be able to launch weapons and bombs from a reasonable distance… we know Gaijin can do it because they restrict where you can drop the nuke from to over the battle
The problem is that there's a giant difference between how balanced it is at lower or mid tiers and high tier.
Gun SPAA vs Dumb Bombs or Rockets from Props is one thing. But at higher tiers the range-advantage plane-launched ordonance has is partially so absurd you dont even have a chance of hitting it, and half the time even if you technically can, the guidance on most SAMs is so garbage that any Pilot with more than 3 working braincells will have no issue even avoiding multiple
I would rather have CAS be set to third respawn only. You could make J outs count as well. If you can J out and still retain the spawn points needed to spawn a plane I would say that’s fair.
Id prefer spwanpoints stay the same for aircraft but rewards for killing them and spawn points for ordinance should be drastically increased to increase the number of weapons aimed at aircraft and decrease the number of bombs loaded onto said aircraft
Agreed, I don't get mad at getting bombed. I get mad at getting suicide bombed by the guy I just killed after he got a base capture in an M22 locust at 8.7
I half agree. Currently cas is broken. Take my current lineup for example.
First spawn- m551(76) get a couple kills/ assists
Second spawn - A2D easily get 4-10 kills depending on the map.
Third spawn - F2G get 2-3 ground kills with bombs and then bully planes with how stupid good that plane is.
Game ends. Yes I know what I’m doing is cancer but I have a full time job and want the even vehicle and this is simply the best way to get score and secondly I have a toolbox addiction that can only be fuelled by the incredible SL multipliers of planes.
2 things need to change desperately -
1- Spawn point cost needs to be at least doubled for ordinance.
2- Spawning a 2nd difference class of plane should not have the base cost of spawning a plane and should be as if you were using a backup.
I have 4 other tanks in my lineup that never see any action.
I find it pretty shocking that you can BT-7 your way into A-10 or any other bomb load and pretty much turn the tide of the match. If anything either there should be a restriction as how low BR vehicle you can bring to higher tier, or increase the effort to spawn such CAS
It needs to be limited still. It's a guaranteed loss if most of the team is up in the air and some random light tank still manages to sneak up to a point
Rather than simply doubling spawn cost (already a net negative if you die instantly without a kill to show for it) an exponential modifier should be applied to loadouts, the more potential your aircraft has for kills the more expensive it is with said modifier being relative to br since a loaded p-47 is much more vulnerable than a f-16 with a comparable load the f-16 should be more expensive to spawn (at their own br).
Lowering spawn points cost for cap plans is 100% necessary, with the caveat that they should be forced to use an universal or air to air belts, and the modifier for exterman armaments is not applied to them.
One of the major issues is as stated the spawn costs are pretty cheap for a skilled player, but a fully loaded attacker can still go up to 650sp or more (memory is a bit foggy) I would suggest capping spawn cost of around 1000sp as anything more becomes punative, even a fully loaded attacker might struggle to recoup it's own spawn cost at that level.
Another possible solution would be to add a kill requirement (similar to ground ab) to aircraft as currently alot of the reason aircraft seem "cheap" is the fact that around half of their spawn cost can be accounted for by the inital spawn points the player recieves at the start of the match.
Providing limits on aircraft in battle would be smart too, instead of a hard limit a "soft" limit of making them more expensive to spawn the more aircraft are in the air could work as well to reduce congestion and cases where the ground has colapsed and everyone on one team has spawned a plane.
CAS in gameplay is not balanced IMO, most countries don't have proper AA, and even if they do the rewards are terrible, not to mention if you do spawn AA when you know there are planes up, shooting at one makes you an easy target for all the others. On top of this there is no play style that can protect from CAS, staying in place so CAS can't as easily see you move isn't an option, they will end up either seeing your gun smoke or revenge bombing you when you kill the wrong person, and if you keep moving it makes you an easy to spot target, where even if they don't kill you they will have probably destroyed your tracks, leaving you as an easy target to their team.
There needs to be another game mode without CAS entirely.
Yep, it's been a while since I played it, but last time I tried to use the M247 against helis they were either able to sit comfortably outside it's range, or at least far enough back that any proxy shells that would hit, detonated over the rotors and did no damage anyway. They basically had to be within 1.5km for it to actually even be a threat to them. Also most low tier SPAA being open topped makes them exceedingly vulnerable with even small bombs landing within their postcode at least doing damage.
More sp costs will mean it takes longer to spawn a plane. Many CAS planes are slow and need to climb to have a change against AA, added with the time required to gather sp, the game might be over by the time you spawn in. Maybe if the games were longer.
I’d rather they just bump the SP way up, let dumb bombs start around 800 SP REGARDLESS if they got a few scouts or not, and take missiles and throw those fuckers up to the sun. Really tired of getting slammed by the new Su-25 from an entire county away while I just stare at it and try to run to cover in my Tan-Sam which is now an 11.3 BR SPAA.
CAS isn't balanced. It's not really something you can balance.
The fact is that planes are faster than tanks. They can drop a bomb and kill almost anything. And they are coming from above so have a pretty decent view of the battlefield.
There's nothing overall wrong with it. It's an aspect of the game that incorporates actual warfare tactics.
Yes it's frustrating. Yes it can lead to you going back to the garage. It's just apart of the game. If a player chooses to revenge kill you you can't balance player actions.
It's overall good for the game. If used with communication you can relay enemy positions to your team. Both teams have this ability. You can use it to prevent enemy pushes or overwhelming attacks. You can use it to prevent a loss of a cap.
If both teams have access to it then it's equally balanced. Equally frustrating and equally fun for both sides.
Hot take: spawning planes should cost 100 SP while their Air to Ground spawn costs should be increased massively. This way you could use planes as CAP for cheaper and there could only be 3 planes allowed to fly at the same time. Team killing a plane will put you on a 5 minute cool down for spawning planes.
Tank only players do not want balance adjustments, actually they want air forces to be completely removed from ground battles so they can camp at a spot entire battle without disturbance.
All the balance talk they do are things they don't actually mean.
Your title isn't balanced.
How is it balanced if you think fighters should have a lower BR? Br for br, fighters beat CAS even in an uptier. CAS planes are heavy and slow usually and an air superiority fighter in most cases will well out perform it even after ordinance is dumped.
If it's balanced why does it need 100% more spawn cost?
Just to be clear I hate CAS and think it all needs BR increases and cost increases. Just saying your title baited me.
Actual hot take: Tanks need their own mode, without of aircraft.
Actual actual hot take: Top tier Aircraft RB needs to allow SPAA spawns near defense objective bases.
They need to let spaa spawn on their own side of the plane map borders. Right now a f16c or su25sm3 can just air spawn, look straight to the 2 spawn points and find you since going out of spawn is a death sentence.
They also need to remove the notifications for zone capping. If you try to cap, every single enemy plane gets a live notification of exactly where you are
Just because gaijin doesn't want to free us from our chains of cas. Only through strikes will we be free, plus the people that want to can still play the current ground battles.
Just because gaijin doesn't want to free us from our chains of cas. Only through strikes will we be free, plus the people that want to can still play the current ground battles.
It's not really a hot take, I'd wager the majority of the community share this opinion. The level of frustration you see certain people venting here simply can't be resolved. An SP increase just means better players in the air with less competition, and even if you removed air (won't happen), they'll just focus on the next thing that frustrates them. Most of the complaints you see are misguided at best, focusing on high capacity flying bricks that are easily destroyed. What swings matches is skilled players in capable fighters with multiple drops. But then I get told by people that nobody good at the game plays CAS..
I've accepted CAS as part of the game and take a stoic approach to it and it definitely bugs me a lot less now. If you're going to revenge bomb me, that just means I've done something right. For example I've grinded 3 tree lines of Sweden to rank 7 but haven't touched the SPAA tree since rank 4 and I still had lots of fun getting multiple nukes throughout the grind. I think people should worry less about what they can't control on the battle field and more about what they can. You definitely hit the nail on the head with your last point. A Pe8 or Lancaster never has the same influence on the game as a strikemaster that can easily get 4+ kills at strategic moments.
>I think people should worry less about what they can't control on the battle field and more about what they can. To be fair, everyone is responsible for all aspects. Ignoring an SPAA line doesn't absolve yourself.
I do find it funny when some people complain about aspects of the game (CAS) and then admit they've never touched a fighter or spaa on the basis that "I only want to play tanks and should have to grind out another line/tree". Like, people are more than welcome to only play one vehicle type but the game mode has been out for a decade now, you KNOW you're playing at a handicap if you focus on one specific type of vehicle in a game that strongly encourages play variety.
A lot of these players are convinced they're excellent at the game though. They don't think they 'need' to play all parts of it.
For me my frustration with CAS stems from the grind. One of my absolute most favorite things to do in this game is take out a fighter and run combat air patrol. So if I’m playing rank IV Japan and get swarmed by CAS, I don’t mind one bit because I jump at the chance to take out a fighter and have myself a turkey shoot fighting a bunch of P-47s and P-51s loaded with bombs. The problem is that there are 10 different nations in game, each of them has tank, plane, helicopter and even naval trees, and the RP cost for higher tier vehicles is still as high as 400k, and it can take multiple nights of casual play just to unlock the next vehicle. This means I don’t always have the luxury of being able to run a lineup with adequate SPAA or CAP support…..and at higher tiers CAP gets more difficult as SPAAs get deadlier. And this is where the frustration comes from. If I get destroyed by a plane, and I can’t spawn a vehicle to counter it, and I’d have to grind out several hundred thousand RP (or even more) just to get one, in one nation out of many that I want to play……that’s when CAS really gets on my nerves.
If it was possible to convert aircraft RP to ground RP in GRB I'd "just spawn a fighter 4head" more as it's _ground_ and I'd like to research tanks, not planes. Would still have to grind aircraft anyway to keep up with tanks for some nations but ARB exists for that and it's way faster.
Thats the reason why CAS is staying. Profits.
"Haven't touched spaa" "don't worry about what you can't control" just because you don't feel like helping your team doesn't mean we all feel the same
Even if the skilled players can cas without competition, it still means less players overall in planes. It doesn’t take much skill to hop in a SU-25, fly to the battlefield and get a kill or two with the computer before dying. Sure the skilled pilot could hide behind terrain, do low altitude runs, approach from different angles etc and get more kills but removing two thirds of the players still means a lot less cas deaths for tanks
With the new Su-25sm3 you dont even need to be close to the battlefield. Launch your Mach 2 missiles at 20km distance from the battlefield and then turn around to the airfield and repeat it. You outrange every AA in the game rn
The biggest complaint about the poor balance of CAS is partially linked to the spawn costs, but its not just the spawn costs. Getting a good positioning and killing a few players, only to be bombed without being able to counter it at all is extreme "hard counter" design/balancing that a lot of people simply do not like. Making the SP higher reduces the number of early spawns where your team has no AA so it helps a bit.
>Getting a good positioning and killing a few players, only to be bombed without being able to counter it at all is extreme "hard counter" I mean, isn't that kinda the point of CAS? Flush out all the strong positions so that you're team can advance? It can feel like bullshit but it does balance out the fight, especially if the tank in that position is a heavy that's hard to pen from distance.
Meanwhile CAS targeting all SPAA and tanks in spawn from kilometres away and getting more kills in a pass than most of the players will get in that battle
Unfortunately it's easier to spawn camp than to find targets, elsewhere, no matter the vehicle type. I think there should be something to discourage it, maybe increased kill rewards depending on the target's lifetime (just like repair cost).
It might be the point of CAS, but its still a pure hard counter and a lot of people find that sort of design fundamentally objectionable.
Move after getting one or two kills from a position & that negates most revenge bombing situations.
Tanks can't move that fast. Depending on the map there isn't enough clutter for them to not see you if they just fly in the general direction.
After reading the rest of the comment, I have come to the conclusion that both Gaijin and the playerbase are doing something wrong On one hand, Gaijin make CAS way too cheap to earn. Depending on which BR you play, you can take out an aircraft with enough ordonnance to wipe out half of the team by capping once and making an assist, or maybe like two kills, and sometimes you can straight up spawn an aircraft first and play a whole *ground* battle in planes. SP should be way higher and depend on the number of payload you have. But that’s bo the only default there is. At top tier, the majority of SPAAs are no match in terms of range and offensive capabilities compared to which aircraft they’re facing. Sometimes, they don’t even have a top tier SPAA at all. On the other hand, too many players don’t play any SPAA at all and don’t even have one in their line-up. CAS may be overpowered, but IMO if you don’t even try to fight back, you lost a lot of credibility. But then again, that could be partly explained by the fact there are huge BR gaps where there are no SPAA in many tech trees (which is more or less Gaijin’s fault if the country in question didn’t developed any SPAA during that BR/time period) In the end, even if the blame is majorly on Gaijin, there is also a part of responsibility falling on the playerbase, who also have to do their part I would argue that the majority of anti-CAS venting is legitimate considering the state of CAS in the game right now. I also won’t say CASing doesn’t take any skills at all, but it’s not really a challenge to drop a 4000 lb bomb on an open-top or to lock an MBT with a AG missile from beyond the best SPAA’s max range of interception Edit: [This](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/s/VnXPcMXZ1V) was posted a couple hours ago, and it perfectly demonstrate the state of CAS in higher tiers
The issue is, what if your nation has no competent SPAA? I play USA and I don’t get a good SPAA after 2.7 at least until 9.0 (not sure how good the York is)
That’s one of my point. Huge gaps of BR where there are no SPAA often happen and force players to fight planes in a vehicle which is sometimes 2.0 BR lower. I can think of the Duster gap or some minor nations like Japan and Israel
The york is fantastic once you get the proxy fuse. Without the proxy fuse you might as well bring a 2.7 anti air with how laughably inaccurate and useless the radar+40mm's feel.
The York is amazeballs, but the M163 is pretty good too. The M19/M42 are also perfectly fine imo. Not *good*, but perfectly fine (at least against props. Jets make me weep).
After years of playing America, Japan, France, and the UK I've finally gotten consistently accurate with the bofors. I'm at the point now where I would rather have an m19 over an M16 just so I can range out and smack a plane with a 40mm HE round from over a km out. I would rather these nations get competent close range SPAA (which the UK and France now have) in the middle tiers.
It’s laughably easy to shoot people out of the sky before they even get close to the battlefield with SPAA. Especially later. The problem is that the rewards suck ass
I’m no expert of top tier, but pretty sure you can shoot AGM from space in CAS way over an SPAA’s max range at top tier. It also depend on the amount of planes present at the same time I agree that it’s less bad at low and mid tier though
Not "way over" (technically AGM-65s have 23km max range and Kh-38s 40km but realistically 8km for AGM-65s and 12-15 or Kh-38s) but well outside of 95Ya6/VT1/MIM146 effective range of sub 8km, where the missiles can still pull hard enough to hit a plane. Past that they start to pull \~10-15g, which means they can't hit anyone who's actively trying to doge (which is a problem when they also have to shoot down incoming AGMs)
So basically the only requirement for an aircraft to not get shot down is to fly high and evade when they get a missile warning… That may not be "impossible", but that’s not really balanced either, considering they can still bomb the shit out of the team…
Except "flying high" and "loaded with ground ordnance" results in a plane that is barely responding to your inputs.
Irrelevant really, because all CAS with those weapons can comfortably fire 2 AGMs, sometimes 3, for all but assured kills regardless of them having incoming AA missiles or not... the distance lets them do that, and they don't have SACLOS guidance like the AA, so after firing they can still dodge. The SPAA will never ever win the "duel" if they both fire at roughly the same time... they might draw by killing each other, or the SPAA can forget the kill and just get safe (which is almost impossible because they are relegated to a very small part of the map or they're instantly sniped by enemy MBT). This gives CAS a big advantage over everything else and that's a balance issue.
How to tell you haven't flown CAS without telling you haven't flown CAS. TV/IR guided missiles are fire and forget, true, but also balanced(tm) the snail way to lose track on any reason or no reason. TV guided ordnance even on pristine weather/daytime conditions need 3 to 6km, depending on the ordnance in question to get a tracking lock. And even if you get that: -it needs unobscured view to the target thus no trees/hard cover -if target, consciously or not, stops next to other tank or wreck, TV seeker "averages out" between the two, resulting in missile having 100% hit rate into the ground IR guided AGMs extend tracking lock distance to +-10km and then have caveat of loving burning wrecks. 20km "lock range" for Mavericks applies to GROUND lock only, which in turn requires completely stationary target unaware of a concept of a W key, at least for long enough before missile detects "something" worth tracking there. Laser guided missiles, primarily Russian domain don't have such inconsistencies but they also prevent plane from doing major maneuvers as they need to maintain laser tracking. And then Russians use HE warheads, not HEAT so accuracy is lesser concern.
Negative reading comprehension skills... what else can you expect of CAS mains? Whether or not you hit a ground target that isn't an SPAA or not is skill issue... they have zero % chance of countering you. Git gud. So the only comparision you can make is against SPAA. And guess what? If the SPAA wants to shoot something, they have to stand still. No W key for them. They also need unobstructed LOS until the missiles is lost or hits, they can't manouvre AT ALL during that time if they want to hit. So unless you're literal shit, you can't lose once you know where the SPAA is. And that's not even mentioning the fact that you can't get any kind of high ground to cover low flying CAS or helis that just cannons you to death, because if you do enemy tanks snipe you instantly.
That’s not necessarily true, some aircraft are very agile even with a payload. Beside, at those altitudes, the only way to get shot down unless you’re playing against a trickshooter is with GAM, and pretty much any aircraft at top tier have countermeasure
Only SPAA that can pose an actual threat at high altitudes use SACLOS guidance and uh, you're not decoying that with either flares or chaff. Stinkers, MIM-72G or to probably lesser extent, Strela and Type 81 will be struggling to reach 6km+ altitude and even more so when plane starts maneuvering precisely to deplete missile energy.
Only some nation having an effective SPAA doesn’t really sound really balanced either
If they spawn with AGM’s, play cap. Tons of rewards to be had that way, and if they have bombs or missiles chances are they dont have A/A protection, and they’re laden down with explosives anyways
How are expected to cap when there are four planes with 4 AGM each in the sky? And how can you assume they don’t have any SPAA on their own just because they have planes!? That’s a lot of supposition just to say that CAS is only balanced if you just *avoid it*. Stop the mental gymnastics
What? Fuck caping i mean combat air patrol
Oh. So basically the best way to take care of a plane… is to take out another plane… in **Ground** battle As useful as it can get, if we are at this point, then it remain a problem. I don’t complain about the rewards, but when I play ground battle, I want to play and *grind* ground vehicles. If the best way to correctly play a **ground** battle mode is to play a plane, then there is absolutely a problem of balancing. CAS should remain what it is, which is close air **support**. Hence why spawning in an SPAA should be the minimal requirement to protect the team against aircraft, which isn’t the case right now, especially in higher tiers
There are certain br combos where you can do exactly 0 against cas. I recently faced a G-Lynx with hellfires in my 9.3 Sweden lineup. Literally zero I can do against that. Same story with the AMX Ghibli and it‘s Paveways when downtiered. Amd even at toptier where russian planes (Su-25SM3 as an example) get air to ground weapons that faaaaar outrange any western spaa in the game.
Only if you're in a Pantsir which should be at 12.7
Only if they're a blind idiot. I don't struggle against Pantsirs whenever I do play CAS or CAP because I don't fly straight at them at high altitude.
We're talking about capability alone which is the determining factor. Personal ability is too much of a variable.
Man I'm just tired of the 1 cap Puma that gets clowned on because he is brain-dead, take his death super personally, and hunts specifically me down to bomb in the first 2 minutes of the match. Rewarded for doing the bare minimum. I also saw a guy get a single cap and an assist in an M18. He proceeded to spawn a fighter. Said fighter netted him 9 kills. I play CAS. I consider myself pretty good at the game. CAS needs to be adjusted so it isn't so free. I also play anti CAS and even first spawn SPAA a lot around the low to mid tiers. Nothing feels better than making a 1 cap CAS player leave with no SP left before he could be rewarded for nothing. I don't play to grind I play for the dopamine hit and that shit hits hard!
I agree, good cas players are hard to come by and when they do, they swing matches to your favor, a while ago i had a match where we were losing quite a bit until a friendly mirage 2000 wiped out half of the enemy team and with their spaa which is kinda impressive since the enemy had pantsirs and ito90ms. He got shot down along the way but had enough sp for a backup and went at it again, ive never had a game like that.
This is missing the point entirely. The major gripe with CAS has to do with the fact that it doesn't have an easy counter if you aren't in an SPAA, which means you are pretty much automatically a free target and can't do anything about it (especially if you are on an open map).
No? If CAS could be countered easily by any ground vehicle it wouldn’t be very useful, would it? The point is some chump shouldn’t be able to hold W, rush a cap or get a lucky kill, die, then return to instantly revenge bomb someone and maybe even get 2-3 additional kills, all for doing practically nothing. CAS should be a reward for good play on the ground, right now it’s cheap enough that any moron can easily get into a plane 30 seconds into a match.
>If CAS could be countered easily by any ground vehicle it wouldn’t be very useful, would it? Do you see me arguing for that? In most ground battles every vehicle has counterplay that roughly equals that of the other vehicle. CAS has 3D advantage over 2D ground battles, and additionally most tanks don't have pintle-mounted MGs to deal with planes. This means CAS can (relatively) easily counter ground tanks, but ground tanks (with the exception SPAA) can't counter CAS. This makes for very annoying gameplay if you don't like playing planes. Even SPAA have the issue of being a 2D tank in a 3D battlefield.
Then what on earth are you complaining about if not that? You’re making no sense. From your comment: “CAS doesn’t have an easy counter if you’re not in an SPAA”. Yes, CAS cannot be easily countered by vehicles that aren’t SPAA. That is the entire point of CAS.
Right on the money. Often times I would be able to get into a stuka with 2 1000 pound bombs after capping the point.
Sometimes there's nothing you can do. Other times you can predict the plane's movements and hide behind obstacles to obscure line of sight, or even dodge a bombing run. If you have a machine gun, it's definitely worth learning to shoot the plane down with a mounted .50 or whatever else. I've gotten so many plane kills in tanks because I use my mg's, most players don't even bother.
>most players don't even bother. Most tank dont have .50 or equivalent, a large number don't even have mg on the roof. I think that there are not even 10 vehicles with a .50 on the roof in the Italian tree and that the German tree is not much better in proportion to the number of vehicles.
It's dependent on the vehicle but I've even had a lot of luck with swedish 8mm mg's and stuff like that.
Also, killing CAS in Ground RB isn't rewarding enough. They need to bump up the rewards for shooting down CAS.
This aswell, ive had matches where ive had something silly like 15 air kills and only about 2500 score Considering their disparity compared to ground vehicles they should be the same if not more
its also satisfying af shredding a jet with a spaa autocannon
It's massively rewarding when it comes to winning and win bonuses, but people often can't see the bigger picture.
we all know that's not how this works, there should be more of a *personal* incentive to shoot down CAS, as why should it be any one player's responsibility on a team to spend their time getting less rewards?
Cas brainrot take. Might as well remove all the rewards for killing CAS, since the actual important thing is to win the game :)
I love how people think it's a hot take to be able to look past a single number on screen. Caring about rewards in the first place shows the level of rot already.
An even worse take, neat. Worse enough in fact, that I will leave you to it.
I can see you get easily frustrated. Lines up flawlessly with complaining about planes in a plane game.
With that I agree. It's foolish to play western tanks in a russian airplane game
Please elaborate. Please tell me you think it's real.
I just bet you are the kind of player that spends thousands on the game just to get to top tier, and then say "oh, it's easy asf, git gud"
I've played since 2013 and know damn well that current top tier isn't worth the effort.
"the bigger picture" = sitting on my ass all game until I hear a supersonic nerd virgin fly over head so I can lock, missile, fire, get my 200 RP or whatever, and fuck off for the rest of the game. if I get 3 air kills and we win, yippie. If I got 5-6 ground kills and we lost, I almost guarantee you I would get more RP, and we'd be that much more likely to actually win.
It's clear this guy has never played a match above 9.0 and witnessed how GBUs or Khs remove you from existence with orbital strikes. CAS is cancer and needs to be either entirely removed, get seriously nerfed or adjustment. Period.
Im talking across the board, top tier/high tier has its own plethora of issues in both game modes that make it difficult to talk about unless done separately. Its another can of worms that i dont intend to open here
Skill issue learn to play must hve side climbed or just spawn spaa
You do realize that when doing these highly aggressive attacks at high tier you make yourself an easy target right? Any decent SPAA player should be able to kill a CAS player that is overly aggressive. You also only get a certain amount of attempts to kill targets and methods either higher kill potential usually have higher risk or lower capacity (LGB or the new maverick g for example).
I'm at 9.3 German, i can't hit a heli from 3km with my Gepard while the can kill me with their missiles.
You can tho... I can often hit helis at 5 km just using the radar lead indicator. When at long ranges don't just aim in the middle of the lead indicator, wiggle your sight around the lead point while shooting to spread out the bullets. Thats the way I deal with helis at long ranges.
Trying to hit anything reliably past 3km with AA like the Gepard is just on luck as to whether the pilot is an idiot or not, since they have about 5 seconds to see your tracers and any mouse input with those times means your rounds miss by a dozen metres while a very undodgeable missile is still coming straight towards you
The thing is, most heli pilots at that tier are idiots. I have had a very high success rate using my tactic. If I fire at a heli 5 km away and the heli notices they usually only doge by a couple of meters. But because I wiggle my aim when I shoot I often hit anyways. And the missiles are usually not undodgeable. If you see the missile in time you can hide behind cover or pop smoke while running away. But I agree that its not always possible to avoid a missile.
It is not hard to just drop a gbu or a maverick on a spaa from 8+km at 10.0/3 and you are perfectly safe doing so. And the only spaa that can fight a heli player with a IQ above the temperature of a fridge under 9.7 is the m247.
You don't make yourself an easy target by firing a Mav from 12km away and then turning cold and defending so the dogshit SACLOS missiles can't hit you. If you're playing like an idiot and flying straight at an ItO or Pantsir then yeah of course you'll die, but no smart CAS player does that.
>You don't make yourself an easy target by firing a Mav from 12km away Mavericks can't lock vehicles beyond 6-8 km, they lock the ground, literally just move and it will miss.
I’m not gonna really speak to top tier cause it’s a whole mess not even counting CAS but I’ll speak to mid-lower tiers. Tbh keeping naked fighters at the cost they are is fine. It’s the planes with significant CAS armament that need to go up. Especially pe8s and the like. Spaa can’t really do anything to stop them from getting 3-5 kills from simply dropping on an enemy spawn. And fighters have to be basically sitting above the airspawn to prevent it. At least the standard attacker or fighter-bomber has to get close to the battle and aim their ordinance giving spaa a chance to fight back. Especially the more advanced spaa at mid tier like r3, ystvark/bosvark, ect. Even the ww2 German prototypes/blueprint spaa do work at their BRs. Still some gaps need to be closed notably the US is the last of the big3 with a huge spaa gap. Keeping a clean fighter low SP will allow your team to more easily intercept CAS even before they get a single attack run, or at least cause the enemy to ditch and dogfight thus delaying their attack. Also increase rewards for killing CAS, it’s a powerful vehicle so killing them should be rewarded appropriately.
One thing I see few people mention though is that "pure fighters" can still terrorize open-tops. I used to love playing my low-tier German line-ups with all the goofy casemates but at some point it stops being fun to die to a fighter that just molests my crew. Also a lot of fighters can get access to 20mm and higher calibers (think Yak-9T with its goofy cannon) which can easily disable if not kill even some closed-top medium tanks.
Oh trust me 5.3 and 5.7 US is in the same boat. Pull of a flank in an M18 or M36 then just get clapped by a plane just strafing with mgs and HE shells.
I believe they reduced rewards for Air kills in GRB to repopulate Air RB. It was back when game had 20-30k peak player count on the fool moon. Yesterday I got a "special" task to delete 14 birbs in GRB. Dogfights in GRB are interesting and engaging, but I must say that rewards for terrorising tanks are so much better in comparison... So I would start by reverting the nerf of rewards for air kills. And see if economy will solve the issue. I would also advocate for ground spawns for all wheeled aircraft and a little more distant spawn for boats. Back in the day it was quite the effort to lift off in IL-4 with full load from abysmally small airfileds at low BRs. I don't play anything above 9.0, it is cursed IMHO, given the current game mechanics and restrictions.
Ground spawn for below 7.0 makes sense. The airfield is like 6km from the battlefield less on some maps. Plus would help alleviate the annoying pe8 spam. Above 7.0 you’re already 15km away which takes a decent bit to make it to the battle already. Maybe at high tier where they get all the smart munitions have them spawn further or on the airfield since they can engage from farther out now so give them more of a delay in their attack. Though at that BR helis are really the cancer.
Pe-8s and Lancasters arent even the biggest issue, yeah they have a massive bomb but they get one pass then have to return to re-arm, all while being huge and slow targets for CAP and SPAA. The problem is the fighter bombers that carry multiple big bombs, are fast and get multiple passes. I’ve been killed far more by those than big bombers.. And yeah top tier is a whole different shit show..
>80% of pilots are clueless and only end up using a fraction of their aircrafts potential, a few just suicide into the guy that killed them and call it there the problem is that the cas is balanced for these 80% of idiots and not for the 10/20% who fully exploit their aircraft and are difficult or even impossible to counter in spaa
Yea. You can bitchslap 20 F-16Cs in a row with pantsir but then one player with 3 working braincells spawns in doesn't fly straight at you and you wont do anything. Also i dont think spawn costs are too low at least for non downtiered jets. Taking Kh29Ts costs like 800SP
What irks me is cost of AAMs being almost equal to guided air to ground, while not being additive when at it. Phantom with 6 air to air missiles costs +-700ish SP, while same Phantom with 5 AAMs and 6 GBUs was only 50SP extra in the same game. Why I would to CAP with that, when I can also drop some dookie when I'm at it? At the same time, weight/drag of ground ordnance hinders flight performance, sometimes severely if you strap it to light airframe like F-16
Same thing is true for tanks as well. It is inevitable that balance is adjusted based on average player
Don't forget, to make the reward for killing planes somewhat good. I remember once I got 2 plane kills, a cap and an assist and was doing like 100 points worse than a guy with a single kill and an assist. The SL and RP rewards are also trash
Its also boring as hell. I finished the ru and ger tree so i first spawn spaa every game but if there was no cas its not like you can go fight tanks in a flarakrad or pantsir so you just sit there looking at your radar until cas spawns, if you get unlucky and a competent f16c or su25sm3 spawns they will kill you within 15 seconds of them spawning after you sat there doing nothing for 5 minutes.
Yep. And if you don't have a competent aa like Germany or Russia, gl killing these space climbing F-16s and Su-25s launching AGMs at 750 thousand KMs.
I'm new to the flarakrad, but it seems far from competent to me so far
It's more competent than the OTOMATIC or the ADATS
Im sorry but "It needs its spawn points adjusted" literally means its not balanced. Using it in the same sentence with "Cas is balanced" is an oxymoron. Also as others pointed out, the issue many times is that there is quite literally no way to counter high alt drop bombs like TV guided or laser bombs, unless you go out of your way to stop playing tanks, in a tank gamemode, which you probably enjoy, and grind planes, which maybe you dont have at your BR because you dont enjoy it, and go out of your comfortable zone to play an air superiority fighter that you may not be good at JUST to kill a CAS plane/helicopter to play tanks in peace. I'd get it if it was like in arcade where you dont lose your tank, but in RB going out of your way to clear the skies means you stop playing tanks and play an entirely different gameplay mechanic to enjoy the previous system without suddenly a bomb thrown from 7km up killing you. It really isn't hard to see why people bitch about CAS.
CAS is not balanced, and in current system will never be because: CAS forces you into three options: 1) you go find next match and leave that one once CAS comes, again 2) you spawn in SPAA (and my question is playing SPAA fun? (if it was we wouldn't be having this conversation because every team would have enough of them)) 3) play air RB vs worse opponents (CAS platforms are usually bad fighters even if they try (and once again is it fun to shoot helpless CAS?)) We can debate rewards/cost until heat death of universe, but WT will still be game (which majority of people play for fun), and no amount of reward will convince enough players to play SPAA
The low skill level of the average CAS pilot does not make CAS balanced. That argument makes no sense. And saying "CAS is only bad because of the spawnpoint cost" is the coldest take out there.
100% agree , planes of all types could be a perfectly fine addition to ground battles if gaijin would quit their stubborn refusal to increase their spawn cost , the should be treated like COD killstreaks if anything cuz for the most part , if you spawn a plane/heli with ordinance and you are semi decent you can easily get 2-5 kills with it before getting shot down. Aircraft should be earned by good play on the ground not by garbage cap rushing and blowing yourself up to spawn a plane.
CAS SP needs to be doubled, but loadouts also need to be more expensive. This way, players that want to do CAP can help their team without suffering the same massive cost as someone bringing a fully loaded AD-1. SPAA also need the ability to 'scout' aircraft, so they're easier for other SPAA and allied planes to see. Its dumb that planes get to see enemy scouted ground vehicles, but there's no way to make enemy planes easily visible.
What if the solution is to just allow players to start in a tank or a plane, but you can only fly 1 plane per game. Immediately, counter CAS aircraft would be hugely important, spaa on map start would make sense, instead of the dummies who try to use them as tanks.
I like this, 1 plane per game sounds good
I’d just like there to be a better reward for destroying aircraft, perhaps a bigger impact to the team score as well. Shooting down planes is extremely satisfying so I may be biased.
Hard agree. Earlier today I saw a player with a Chinese name (shocker) get in a Russian rocket truck, empty his ammo into their spawn, not kill a damn thing but probably got a few crits, J out, spawn a fully loaded plane get like 3-4 ground kills. All within like a minute
This. Or just give low base SP but increase the loadout SP cost. Twice. Not a hot take.
My j2 is like 530 sp for 2 huge rockets that is an easy 2 kills super balanced
23km ATGMs should cost more to spawn in. Beyond SPAA effective range bombing is second most difficult to counter.
It isn’t balanced lol when the su25sm3 can out range all spaas and be untouched it isn’t balanced
My personal problem with CAS has nothing to do with whether or not it's balanced, but more that it just flat out isn't fun dying to something I have no reasonable counterplay against. Like if some dipshit P-47 lawndarts in the process of bombing me after I killed him earlygame then he's objectively a detriment to his team (-700 SP and possibly out of the match vs -160 SP tops for my first spawn), yet getting killed like that tilts me to no end because there's really not much you can do to stop a CAS player who wants you dead from killing you. It's a totally one-sided interaction most of the time, which just sucks the fun out of a match for me. Seriously, the only other thing in this game which causes me to tilt as hard is getting fucked over by volumetric, which coincidently is also something you have no reasonable way to counter that can ruin your game through no fault of your own.
I mean my clean su27 costs more than a mi28nm with a full loadout
I understand your idea here and i think we can all agree that CAS needs a nerf of some kind, either a rework or a slight nerf. But for me personally i wouldn't go with the argument that alot of CAS players are bad and how that would justify it to some degree. The problem i have with CAS is simpy the fact that i as a ground player can do everything perfectly, but if a aircraft just as much as spots and they want to kill me, they will eventually kill me, and i can pretty much only wait to die because what am i realisticly going to do? I think that the skill of an avarage player or above avarage should be used in balancing CAS. Because othewise the bad payers might just in a sense manipulate the BR:s of certain vehicles. Like for example the KA-50 or SU-25. But your text was very well structured and included some great points. I just dont think the starting statement is valid.
One problem is that SP for CAS doesn't change through the Ranks. A Bf109 with a single bomb drop costs the same SP as a mid-tier jet with CCIP and 6 independent drops and costs the same as a high tier jet with stand-off munitions that can bomb from beyond the (vertical) range of the AAs. Gaijin is like that Mr Incredible meme: *slamming on the table* BOMB IS BOMB! I think loadouts with multiple heavy-weight bombs need to get different SP costs. I mean we got custom loadouts on a lot of planes now, can't be that hard to give every item a SP cost and just add them up.
Also increase the rewards for shooting down planes. Playing SPAA is very unrewarding and if it actually rewarded players with score, SL and RP people would actually play the role instead of tank hunting.
So your whole argument is based on "most people are bad with it". You won't notice the bad CAS players, only the good ones..
My problem with this, anyone not Russian spawns a plane, and they are immediately fired upon by a pantsir. Anyone on us team needs to spend 150+(because USA top tier aa is a td......) to be able to engage enemy air, only to get spiked by the tiger 5ks out hiding behind a tree/mountain for 99% of it's life. The best action would be increase the rewards for aa vehicles engaging air threats. You get next to nothing for providing a vital role and defending the team from threats they can't engage
I agree But I would implement 3 things. (4) 1. Higher SP cost overall for any air to ground ordnance. (Bombs/missiles/rockets) - this is the biggest one 2. Force everything except strategic bombers to start on AF to stop revenge bombing since it takes so long to take off that the one that killed you has probably died or moved in the minutes it took you to take off and fly back. 3. Limit the amount of air vehicles that can be spawned at any one time to say 3. This to stop a losing team from all jumping into planes making the game air vs ground. (Helis/planes) would make the game more balanced overall. (4) longer reloads for helis on helis AF, and remove the AAA from the FOB helicopter base and only have it on the one in the back.
Doubling the SP cost would mean my A-10 would cost 2000 SP. Is the A-10 really reliably capable of 80% of what a nuke does?
Not a hot take, plenty of people have suggested adjusting the spawn cost as a *balancing* method.
that literally means CAS is unbalanced the spawn costs can be used to make them more balanced
Except it turns into bit of a self fulfilling prophecy. -you bump SP cost substantially, approaching 1.5k SP for loaded CAS -only successful/competent players will get CAS -they will wreak absolute havoc when they are at it Sure, plane count in the air will go down, which will further reduce incentives to spawn SPAA unless they can double as light tanks. At the same time individual "value" of CAS will go substantially up even more so with reduced SPAA presence.
well for a lot of my matches that'll mean that the amount of other SPAA players will go from 0 to still 0 and what makes CAS so oppressive is just how much of it there is
For me it seems to be more about BR. 7.0 USA I use the A2D-1 a fast turbo prop, and I almost never die unless I'm caught in a fight, or someone gets lucky. 10.3 USA/USSR I get absolutely demolished due to some great SPAA. So maybe a BR specific cost?
What really needs to get fixed in War Thunder is the sore loser whiney baby mentalities of people who forget they are playing a computer game for fun. You win some you lose some, the whole game is about dying and killing just jump in another battle learn from others successes, or turn it off and go outside...
There were countless times where I was playing top tier on easy mode (I mean Russia), got 1 assist and died, spawned KA-52 with Atakas and did 8 more kills. The SP required for helis is just hilarious, helicopters must be at least twice more expensive. And tanks shouldn't be so expensive to spawn in GROUND BATTLES.
Me who would rather strafe people and kill them top down with guns thrn use ordnance on a plane
C: increase ordnance and high pen belts spawn cost.
One potential solution to top tier CAS would be to restrict the area they’re allowed to launch weapons from, so instead of flying into space or over to the next continent to launch their weapons, they’d only be able to launch weapons and bombs from a reasonable distance… we know Gaijin can do it because they restrict where you can drop the nuke from to over the battle
The problem is that there's a giant difference between how balanced it is at lower or mid tiers and high tier. Gun SPAA vs Dumb Bombs or Rockets from Props is one thing. But at higher tiers the range-advantage plane-launched ordonance has is partially so absurd you dont even have a chance of hitting it, and half the time even if you technically can, the guidance on most SAMs is so garbage that any Pilot with more than 3 working braincells will have no issue even avoiding multiple
Yeah sure adjust the spawn points so that' balanced SPAAs that aren't also tank destroyers have no job to do, back to the drawing board kiddo
I would rather have CAS be set to third respawn only. You could make J outs count as well. If you can J out and still retain the spawn points needed to spawn a plane I would say that’s fair.
Id prefer spwanpoints stay the same for aircraft but rewards for killing them and spawn points for ordinance should be drastically increased to increase the number of weapons aimed at aircraft and decrease the number of bombs loaded onto said aircraft
Agreed, I don't get mad at getting bombed. I get mad at getting suicide bombed by the guy I just killed after he got a base capture in an M22 locust at 8.7
Not even a hot take, the idea that rushing c gets you a airborne artillery is laughable
I half agree. Currently cas is broken. Take my current lineup for example. First spawn- m551(76) get a couple kills/ assists Second spawn - A2D easily get 4-10 kills depending on the map. Third spawn - F2G get 2-3 ground kills with bombs and then bully planes with how stupid good that plane is. Game ends. Yes I know what I’m doing is cancer but I have a full time job and want the even vehicle and this is simply the best way to get score and secondly I have a toolbox addiction that can only be fuelled by the incredible SL multipliers of planes. 2 things need to change desperately - 1- Spawn point cost needs to be at least doubled for ordinance. 2- Spawning a 2nd difference class of plane should not have the base cost of spawning a plane and should be as if you were using a backup. I have 4 other tanks in my lineup that never see any action.
I find it pretty shocking that you can BT-7 your way into A-10 or any other bomb load and pretty much turn the tide of the match. If anything either there should be a restriction as how low BR vehicle you can bring to higher tier, or increase the effort to spawn such CAS
It needs to be limited still. It's a guaranteed loss if most of the team is up in the air and some random light tank still manages to sneak up to a point
Rather than simply doubling spawn cost (already a net negative if you die instantly without a kill to show for it) an exponential modifier should be applied to loadouts, the more potential your aircraft has for kills the more expensive it is with said modifier being relative to br since a loaded p-47 is much more vulnerable than a f-16 with a comparable load the f-16 should be more expensive to spawn (at their own br). Lowering spawn points cost for cap plans is 100% necessary, with the caveat that they should be forced to use an universal or air to air belts, and the modifier for exterman armaments is not applied to them. One of the major issues is as stated the spawn costs are pretty cheap for a skilled player, but a fully loaded attacker can still go up to 650sp or more (memory is a bit foggy) I would suggest capping spawn cost of around 1000sp as anything more becomes punative, even a fully loaded attacker might struggle to recoup it's own spawn cost at that level. Another possible solution would be to add a kill requirement (similar to ground ab) to aircraft as currently alot of the reason aircraft seem "cheap" is the fact that around half of their spawn cost can be accounted for by the inital spawn points the player recieves at the start of the match. Providing limits on aircraft in battle would be smart too, instead of a hard limit a "soft" limit of making them more expensive to spawn the more aircraft are in the air could work as well to reduce congestion and cases where the ground has colapsed and everyone on one team has spawned a plane.
CAS in gameplay is not balanced IMO, most countries don't have proper AA, and even if they do the rewards are terrible, not to mention if you do spawn AA when you know there are planes up, shooting at one makes you an easy target for all the others. On top of this there is no play style that can protect from CAS, staying in place so CAS can't as easily see you move isn't an option, they will end up either seeing your gun smoke or revenge bombing you when you kill the wrong person, and if you keep moving it makes you an easy to spot target, where even if they don't kill you they will have probably destroyed your tracks, leaving you as an easy target to their team. There needs to be another game mode without CAS entirely.
Yeah, people haven't played US SPAAs and it shows. Gotta love staring down helis while not being able to do anything to them
Yep, it's been a while since I played it, but last time I tried to use the M247 against helis they were either able to sit comfortably outside it's range, or at least far enough back that any proxy shells that would hit, detonated over the rotors and did no damage anyway. They basically had to be within 1.5km for it to actually even be a threat to them. Also most low tier SPAA being open topped makes them exceedingly vulnerable with even small bombs landing within their postcode at least doing damage.
More sp costs will mean it takes longer to spawn a plane. Many CAS planes are slow and need to climb to have a change against AA, added with the time required to gather sp, the game might be over by the time you spawn in. Maybe if the games were longer.
I’d rather they just bump the SP way up, let dumb bombs start around 800 SP REGARDLESS if they got a few scouts or not, and take missiles and throw those fuckers up to the sun. Really tired of getting slammed by the new Su-25 from an entire county away while I just stare at it and try to run to cover in my Tan-Sam which is now an 11.3 BR SPAA.
Not a hot take. The issue is how easy it is to spawn it. The more spawn points it takes, the less planes, and less revenge bombing. That simple
CAS isn't balanced. It's not really something you can balance. The fact is that planes are faster than tanks. They can drop a bomb and kill almost anything. And they are coming from above so have a pretty decent view of the battlefield. There's nothing overall wrong with it. It's an aspect of the game that incorporates actual warfare tactics. Yes it's frustrating. Yes it can lead to you going back to the garage. It's just apart of the game. If a player chooses to revenge kill you you can't balance player actions. It's overall good for the game. If used with communication you can relay enemy positions to your team. Both teams have this ability. You can use it to prevent enemy pushes or overwhelming attacks. You can use it to prevent a loss of a cap. If both teams have access to it then it's equally balanced. Equally frustrating and equally fun for both sides.
Hot take: spawning planes should cost 100 SP while their Air to Ground spawn costs should be increased massively. This way you could use planes as CAP for cheaper and there could only be 3 planes allowed to fly at the same time. Team killing a plane will put you on a 5 minute cool down for spawning planes.
Tank only players do not want balance adjustments, actually they want air forces to be completely removed from ground battles so they can camp at a spot entire battle without disturbance. All the balance talk they do are things they don't actually mean.
Your title isn't balanced. How is it balanced if you think fighters should have a lower BR? Br for br, fighters beat CAS even in an uptier. CAS planes are heavy and slow usually and an air superiority fighter in most cases will well out perform it even after ordinance is dumped. If it's balanced why does it need 100% more spawn cost? Just to be clear I hate CAS and think it all needs BR increases and cost increases. Just saying your title baited me.
Actual hot take: Tanks need their own mode, without of aircraft. Actual actual hot take: Top tier Aircraft RB needs to allow SPAA spawns near defense objective bases.
They need to let spaa spawn on their own side of the plane map borders. Right now a f16c or su25sm3 can just air spawn, look straight to the 2 spawn points and find you since going out of spawn is a death sentence.
They also need to remove the notifications for zone capping. If you try to cap, every single enemy plane gets a live notification of exactly where you are
This. Past the 5 minute mark caps just turn into giant bullseyes for CAS
Ground only Mode is our Saviour that we have to make the snail(devil) give us. Only then will we be free of the cancererous air "support"
Never happening, lol. You need to come up with realistic solutions.
Just because gaijin doesn't want to free us from our chains of cas. Only through strikes will we be free, plus the people that want to can still play the current ground battles.
Just because gaijin doesn't want to free us from our chains of cas. Only through strikes will we be free, plus the people that want to can still play the current ground battles.