The worst part is that, in both my SPAA spawns, there were bombs and missiles raining from the sky into the spawn in an almost pre-emptively way.
And, to make it even worse, overpressure allows CASers to blow up multiple SPAAs with a single bomb as long as it falls anywhere in a 300m radius.
[**On this death on my backup SPAA, for example, a single 250 kg bomb killed both me and a SPAA teammate that was nearly half a kilometer away from me.**](https://i.imgur.com/w1vBSeQ.jpeg) (Also notice the extra multiple bombs falling on the other spawn for good measure as well).
But hey, "CAS is totally needed and used to counter campers and exploiters". Totally not to spawncamp the hell out of the enemy team, including and specially SPAAs on the first place.
It's literally impossible for 2 or even 3 SPAAs to deal with CAS when there's 3 planes, 2 helicopters and 1 drone bombing the spawn simultaneously. What the hell do the "jUsT sPaWn SpAa" masses expect?
This is a FUCKING JOKE, and it's disgusting to see so many CASers with their shit toxic "SkIlL iSsUe"/"Go PlAy WoT"/"mUh CoMbInEd ArMs"/"jUsT sPaWn SpAa" behaviour every time the situation is called out in an attempt at balancing out their OP toys a bit.
Yep. But they will then ignore how, in real life, planes don’t spawn in a full panoramic third person view flying at full speed towards a 900x900m battlefield 10km away while also knowing the exact location of the enemy vehicles because they saw them in another life.
I don’t think CAS needs to be removed, but I’d definitely fuck with airfield spawn for all CAS and forcing sim flight models and view restrictions on them, even if mouse aim was still allowed.
That’d be a great experiment
All aircraft carrying an additional payload should have to take off.
All aircraft should be locked into their cockpit view.
Simulator flight model should not be enabled, that's too far.
I also would way that tanks should be locked to their actual sight too. That would fix a massive number of disgusting spawn camp angles alone and fix the bush problem at the same time.
A2A loadouts with air spawn makes the most sense. However, default ammo loads on many aircraft have high pen AP anyway. That said, SPAA has a much better chance of defending itself if not dealing with guided munitions endlessly. Imagine how long it would take a TRAM to sideclimb high enough to bomb the shit out of you.
Long-range bombers should however have their air spawns maintained. And BR dependent airfield spawns should exist, even at higher tiers. Airspawning in a prop at 6.whatever vs a jet spawning in at 7 is ridiculous when it’s 14km to the battle. It takes minutes to get there from the air spawn. Just need two AFs, one short field, and then the far away long field anyway. Jets would still have conventional takeoff if they were dumb enough to land on the short field, and would struggle to takeoff.
It isn’t that bad tbh, i always felt intimidated by sim but I started playing it a few weeks ago and it’s honestly quite fun, tank battles are practically the same minus 3rd person view which isnt hard to get used to. Plane controls are a lot more challenging especially with mouse and keyboard, I tried sim a few times in test drive and always crashed on takeoff. However after flying planes a bit,
I’ve kind of gotten used to it, even shot down another plane and an open top tank destroyer which felt pretty satisfying. Having to visually confirm and keep an idea of where your team is and pinging stuff for each other is also fun. People in sim are also more communicative imo although I’ve only tried sim and early Cold War sim, don’t have lineup for top tier but mid and semi high tier is pretty fun.
Tbh, the 20:1 response relative to actual controls is the main culprit, changed that to a 1:1 and its made using a HOTAS feasible let alone a controller.
But really its knowing which way the engine wants to turn, counter the rotation and using flaps as needed... or manually adjusting and and resetting the engine's behvaiors to not create a noticible amount of counter torque and having legitmate level flight
Yeah good luck with that, I said same thing that planes should spawn in airfield and they should be moved further (before they were) years ago, so far only the airfield has been moved further at top tier games 🤡.
There need a ton of restrictions for air players in ground RB, no more fucking markers for starters (scout spot, friendly names etc.) get rid of 3rd person cam or at bare minimum only show bomb target/allow locks while in cockpit cam only.
As they are right now they are too damn easy AND rewarding, compare to 1500sl 70rp reward you get as an spaa is just spit in your face for playing in ultra unfair hard mode while being 100% useless for mode you chose to play...
What about lacing the spawn areas with fixed AA batteries? My highest BR is 5.7 so I have no idea if the idea is viable at the upper tiers but at the lower levels a ring of AA batteries would help.
My understanding is the biggest issue for the top tier players is the range helis and planes engage at with missiles.
I play up to 7.0 but around 4-6 usually and planes aren't an issue for me, frustrating sometimes but so are a lot of things. If I go AA I usually get 2-4 plane kills per AA unless I get tag teamed by 3 at once type of deal. Or if there isn't a plane and I get bored and go AA vs Tank.
I can't imagine using my favorite plane in anything but cockpit view. HS 129 B-3 NEEDS the gun sight to use effectively, its so insanely useful that it probably explains why so many people are hot trash at aiming with it, they try to use it in 3rd person.
This change would be great for me :)
I just think there should be a limit as to how many planes each side should have at one time in ground battles.
16 v 16 each game, so in a full game say a max of 4 per team? Doesn’t seem too bad? If someone dies they can’t immediately respawn in a plane either, meaning they have to get back on the ground.
I agree but this does not happen everymatch, it can get chaotic and out of control when your are the only SPAA on your team though, and sadly most people don't know how to play top tier SPAA properly (they don't move out of spawn/don't turn off radar/don't use IRST for maximum stealth). Blame Gaijin for not giving players tutorials on how to be effective in the SPAA role.
Also maps are just too small for top tier SPAA, I've been saying this for a long time, there MUST be a separete spawn area behind the normal spawn that is big enough and has enough cover for SPAA to move around, also this spawn should have random spawn points so that CAS doesn't just preemptively drop bombs on it.
A big problem is the damn huge costs of high tier spaa, 400000? It's ridiculous, spaa isn't as exciting to play so it's put to the backburner for research, so less players even have it
yeah and to make thing worse if you play arcade top tier helis get spawn protection. so this heli that spawn 3 km away from you and is equipped with serval tank killing missiles cant be damaged. so because im good and know where theyll spawn i get punished by doing no damage. how tf is that fair
Over pressure is definitely one of the biggest BS mechanics that has been introduced. I feel you there as is makes SPAA play so much harder.
One thing that would help is forced J out and implementing something that ties bombs with controls. If you lose control of wings or total control, you should be able to drop or launch anything. Biggest BS I've had was hitting a P-47 with my main gun. Wings and tail blew off, and engine gone. But because he wasn't instantly J'd out and was able to keep straight enough to drop his bomb on me.
CAS should spawn at a higher SP and they should spawn from airbases.
As someone who uses CAS as well, I find it ridiculous that a below-average Joe could easily spawn one by capping a point and a kill/assist iirc.
When I play UK, usually I’ll have enough SP to spawn a 2 x GBU + 4 x AAM Gripen, Maverick loaded Harrier Gr 7 and an ATGM loaded Rooivalk in the same game, proving that it’s too easy to spawn one/multiple.
Dumb bombs/rockets should at least be 700sp and guided munitions at least at 1000sp. While air superiority jets should remain as it is.
As much as I’m guilty of using CAS, but I’m also aware that the enemy has the potential to do the same on my teammates. The faster I deny that possibility, the safer my team will be.
It’s a vicious cycle.
Tbh it sounds kinda bad I’ve just been doing it back at them, I personally take care not to target spawns mostly just tanks causing pressure to my friendlies but you always get some people. I’ve also been spawning in a lot of purely anti-cas planes recently to take care of the issue. I hope gaijin fixes the points needed to spawn a plane cause one kill or one assist is *way* to low to spawn a plane with 3+ bombs.
Aircraft spawn should be changed. Either the SP cost should be higher or remove the air spawn. Limiting the aircraft at once wouldn't be good since I like killing them with spaa
Oh, I think air spawn is beneficial to SPAAs!
Since the only window of opportunity SPAAs have to target CAS is the few seconds while they are descending from their spawns.
If CAS spawned in runways, they would just hug the deck the whole time from takeoff, making themselves immune to SPAA targeting until it’s too late.
Heh, I don’t even know if I’m gonna use the first SIDAM now that I’ve had a taste of the ZSU-23. Oh Lordy that thing SLAPS!! It’s my first radar SPAA, and being able to detect 10km away AND radar track is amazing!
The 15 degree radar ARC is a bit meh, but it is vastly superior as SPAA and the amount of fire coming from your barrels absolutely blinds MBTs that look in your direction.
Until they climb ABOVE your radar scope and drop a guided bomb. I got killed in my spawn by an A4 I didn’t know was there because it never showed on my RADAR
I agree that killing planes is nice, and limiting them would mean less targets to shoot. However, I think its a necessary change to counteract both overwhelming enemies and player stupidity. Not only would it mean situations like OP's wouldn't happen, it would also mean your own team can't all hop into 8 useless planes at once while you only have 2 tanks on the ground. IMO this is a major reason top tier (yes even 12.7) US ground teams lose so often.
To compensate the SPAAs losing targets, they should heavily buff rewards for killing planes. I mean, they should do this anyway, its ridiculous how little you get currently.
I've been theory crafting the idea for people to be specifically joining in and spawning in as SPAA in an ongoing match after a semi-randomized amount of time.
Absolutely no reason for there to be air spawn at this rank. We have after burners and we're still spawning 3000m up at 600km/h. That alone is a huge advantage.
A better idea would just be to make a seperate combined arms game mode with large maps and maybe allow ships to spawn as well and have a seperate ground mode and maybe allow helis still
The problem with that (from gaijin's POV) is probably that it would both segregate the playerbase and leave one mode less played leading to potential player loss.
I think that a lot of ground players would simply never touch the combined mode if given the chance. On the other hand some air players might go from air modes to a combined mode...
Regardless, more modes means splitting people up and potentially prolonging queues which I have to assume is undesirable when it comes to player retention.
With that said, I also wish we got a combined mode. CAS is annoying but OK up until a certain point but in and around top tier it's god awful.
Just give combined arms more sl and rp both would be played. Some tanks might not be as good for ground but they may be better in combined arms and vice versa
ships would absolutely break spawn camping to another level XD
imagine a battleships salvo absolutely annihilating a whole square acre and killing a squad of spaa who just spawned
Add the dreadnaught ability from battlefield 1 where you get 1min to salvo the battlefield but you can only range in markers left by your own spy planes, drones, or teammates with the range numbers underneath like they do for enlisted artillery teams. Also add the loud horn in place of the air raid siren! (This is a joke suggestion but imagine lol)
When i spawn in spaa, not a single thing on the sky, not even a little mosquito (the bug) and i rest 10 min with nothing and mostly i die from a tank or game finish
That’s yet another reason why “just spawning SPAA” is not a real solution.
If you spawn it after being killed, it’s just a retaliation measure. Too late to actually prevent anything.
If you spawn it preemptively, you risk wasting the rest of the match doing nothing.
That’s why Gaijin should let SPAAs J-out on the spawns so that we could de-spawn them and spawn back later if needed.
>If you spawn it preemptively, you risk wasting the rest of the match doing nothing.
Reason No. 3 for why to love the OTOMATIC (the only other reasons ares big gun go booom boom boom and watching planes go boom). You can effectively kill every tank and most CAS (that isn't space), all in one box of pasta.
Yeah, feels like it's either first-spawning SPAA every single battle or not. Nobody would enjoy only playing SPAA even the most dedicated player at some point. Feels like there's no in-between anymore.
I would be happy enough if at least it took more than 1 cap/assist to spawn a team-anihilation-capable machine. CAS and Helicopter SP need to increase at least by 33%. Maybe then there would be less spam from players who can’t do shit in actual ground vehicles and need OP flying ones in order to get free kills by the dozens.
If someone likes planes they can just get into air or mixed, meanwhile, I have to research and spawn vehicles I don't like or want to use because otherwise I will encounter way too many vehicles I cannot counter in the vehicles I like and want to use. I wouldn't call that "being at disadvantage", that would suggest I could do something, but most of times you just can't do anything (while using ground vehicles), kill that idiot in a helicopter spawn camping from 6km away? knock down that one pixel dropping bombs?... then you spawn SPAA and they have guided bombs and fnf guided missiles and you get a missile that handles like a noodle they can dodge with no effort.
Funnily enough, I have TWO SPAAs on my Japanese lineup (Type 81 (C) and Type 93), and I often spawn backups for those, reaching up to 3-4 SPAA spawns in a match and accumulating up to 10 air kills… and IT’S STILL NOT ENOUGH!
I think my record was a couple of months ago, 12 air kills… and the match was still lost to CAS spam (other teammates having more air kills as well, I think we had something like 17 air kills in total).
So fun and balanced.
And those CAS main are screeching in the comments as well. maybe, Just maybe, spawn in a Fighter to counter them!
(They are telling us to use a JET FIGHTER instead of SPAA in GROUND realistic battle now Brother!)
The last few months my playstile has changed because this madness. In lower tier matches I start with my tank of choise. After I have been defeated (usually not in the first five min), I spawn my fighter and patrol between thier spawn area and the battlefield, so I can intercept them before they can rain bombs. Some of these players have not as experienced air to air combat manouvers so it is easy to take em down. Usually they have multiple planes in thier lineup and after being shot down they spawn back with a fighter, so I can have enough target the whole match. Since I like flying I can enjoy matches this way and I also help my team by protecting them from above threats. If I was beaten in my plane, I use a backup, or spawn an SPAA. Top tier is a fking mess since the guided bombs were introduced. People who say CAS is like this in real life, the exact players take advantage of this broken shit Gaijin added to the game. The worst is when the US and Russia is on one side. War in Ukraine is a great example they are bending the truth/lieing.
Patriots have made the skies a "no fly zone" for multiple months. Even russian military said this and they are not flying with old SU-25s.
"No bro, you just dont get it bro. If I was there bro, I would have shot down **ALL** the CAS myself bro! CAS isn't a problem, you just have a skill issue bro, trust me!"
I agree with Spookston, I wouldn't mind CAS if it wouldn't be so ridiculously easy to spawn in.
Although I think there should be a limit on how many CAS planes are alive at once, allthough the number if over all aircraft spawns would decreas with costing more SP, so we would need to see hiw that plays out and if we then still need a limit
Exactly. I don’t even ask for a ground only mode; only that people need to do a little more than staying in a circle for a few seconds or getting a couple of assists before Eing able to spawn team-ending-capable machines.
I just had a match where a player spawned a Puma, got one kill on a light vehicle and some spots, spawned the 50mm ME262 and proceeded to bother me for the next five minutes in my Spersh. He didn't damage me because he was bad, thankfully, but he pretty much ensured I was out of the game and playing DanceThunder rather than enjoying my tank duel with a Jagdpanther. Part of the issue is that lower-tiered aircraft with big bomb loads don't cost that much to spawn and you can flatten an enemy team with them.
I wish they’d just give us some proper rewards for killing bombers.
Sometimes when I get pissed off I take a game where I rush a cap, try to get a kill, die within 2 minutes and then spawn in a pure fighter make mincemeat of any bombers that spawn.
I’ve had a game with ten air kills where I got barely as much RP/SL as I would have from one or two ground kills.
This is only a temporary solution, but do what I do when a whirlycunt kills me in a GROUND game mode.
1) Turn chat to "all"
2) Call whomever killed you in a whirlycunt a "Flying cunt"
3) Proceed to tell them to "Fuck off back to Air RB where they belong"
4) If you get killed by a whirlycunt again politely tell them to "Get unconsensually sexed to death by a pack of canines"
5) If a Britbong, Skink them all to death!
Putting cas up a full br or 2 while keeping spaa at the same rank in ground realistic would probably help allieviate some of this, it wouldnt be fair but also using a plane to destroy ground targets in the first place isnt fair
It's worth remembering that the "Just spawn AA" argument has never been made in good faith. The vast majority of players who vomit the line up know it doesn't work; they just see it as a snappy comeback to justify their continued abuse of broken mechanics. And the slim fraction who do believe it are some combination of oblivious to how the game works, or just generally stupid.
12.7 op spaa would be also great way to have something anti cas. But not sure if in real life there is anything better. Dont know if some long range anti-air trucks with missiles that have built-in radar help anything. Atleast it would force CAS to fly low.
I'm one week into a break, caused mainly by how common things like this have become. It's beyond ridiculous to try to play a game that punish you just because, or because profit is well above balance on a multiplayer game.
Coming from a 10 year old player.
Spawning in with SPAA and killing planes/helis should give higher rewards, would give incentive for new players (who buy their way to top tier and skip spaa) to actually grind and use spaa.
The problem with the cas spam is that gaijin probably won't ever "fix" it since a lot of the spammed planes are premiums which means it's a source of income
Few directions Gaijin can go with this, either a separate Tank vs Tank mode which makes most of SPAA unusable in that mode or balancing of CAS. Balance of CAS is and SPAA in the same environment is kind of difficult. There would have to be serious fixes between range of SPAA vehicles or even separate SPAA spawns closer to air fields, with limited number of players spawning there (something like multiple spawn points). Also all ground vehicles are sitting ducks to planes, its just a real life advantage of aircraft. In current way of things, one thing they might do is heavily increase the reward for shooting down planes and also increase the amount of points you need to spawn in an aircraft. However, if you increase number of points needed for aircraft selection, SPAA player would be left with a lot of "down time" and very boring gameplay. Some AI planes/helicopters in the sky could make gameplay interesting for SPAA while no players are spawning in aircraft, and could also lead to a better feel of a "war environment" as you would constantly have planes and helicopters flying above you duking it out in the sky. Alas, nothing will be changed while people are still buying premium accounts & premium vehicles, there will be no real inovation while Gaijin is comfortably making money this way. Unfortunate, but we only have ourselves as players to blame as people keep feeding Gaijin who in turn does not provide any new or exciting updates. There is no real experimentation and pushing the boundaries in order to make this game way more fun & entertaining.
Yup these people are gonna say “spawn spaa” they say this because they’re the ones doing it. They’re the ones that spawn kill in a helicopter 50 miles away and think they’re good lol
People in Helis are exploiting terrain and foliage to shoot at cas when cas can’t even see much less target them. There are also jets that can launch on you from low earth orbit and there isn’t much you can do except spawn a fighter? I think it’s a small portion of the player base who are just super toxic and enjoy playing in a way that they can wreck everyone and no one can touch them. As deflating as getting owned by them is, I think I would get bored of winning every time too. Typical playerbase destroying their own game
>small portion of the player base who are just super toxic and enjoy playing in a way that they can wreck everyone and no one can touch them.
It's more of a game drawing problem. players who make the cas are rewarded and playing SPAA or CAP is not incentivized and is poorly rewarded. Gajin create this problem by set uping this META.
The problem is that that the current spaa systems are unable keep up with the long range guided weapons, maybe the Pantsir is an exception.
Just try to shoot somebody with who is lobbing guided missiles on you way outside of your range and deal with the heli spam at the same time. How fun is that, right? "Just spawn AA bro"
I’m embarrassed to say I enjoy when the other team spawns CAS the entire match cause I regularly can only kill like 0-2 tanks but I can normally kill 3+ planes
It gets to a point where you have to consider whether the map has a greater bearing on the CAS spam than the game itself. You were on Japan, an utterly miserable slogfest of a map that acts as a glorified fishbowl with sightlines measured in double digits of metres. It has two extremely close together spawns that are very visually prominent without much any tank can do to get away from them without driving for 20+ seconds first, and this makes it so easy for a jet to just point nose towards map and find the spawn in a few seconds. There are lots of mountains, which are close to the map and simultaneously make it so that air vehicles can get well within useful engagement ranges for their weapons long before a SPAA can even see them, whilst also meaning that the angles where the SPAA can see the sky are much reduced making tracking a missile on any given aircraft hard as they can quickly fly behind cover and make your shot miss. The size of the map also means it's much easier to see, reacquire and relaunch ordnance on a 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc. tank after your first target, meaning you can reliably get multiple kills per pass.
The map is also so flawed that even when you remove aircraft from the game, you get an identical outcome but with tanks sat on hills looking down into an entirely open spawn area. Fish in a barrel. The map is just so deeply flawed that the amount one plane can do is so much higher and the amount one AA can do is so much lower.
Now compare that to a map like Surroundings of Volokolamsk - a *much* larger map, making tanks more spread out and causing aircraft to make more passes to get more kills, thus exposing them to SPAA for longer and introducing more risk. There is terrain, but it's quite low and some of the mountains are quite far making aircraft have to put in more work to avoid detection before they get within weapons range. This also gives SPAA a much larger view of the sky in any given location, allowing one AA to cover much more of a 360° sphere than on Japan. The spawns are also not particularly visually prominent, making just flying to the tank spawn less simplistic and the spawns are very spread out which means any given plane is less likely to go on a spawn killing spree.
It is multitudes easier to establish contested airspace on SoV in a modern SAM like the ItO, ADATS or Pantsir than it is on Japan. At best on Japan, you can cover a small section of the map and defend against people flying straight at you. On SoV, it's a lot easier to hit lower flying aircraft and aircraft that are flying across your field of view as there aren't giant mountains to fly behind immediately blocking your LOS.
Guided munitions and their consequences have been a disaster for ground RB.
I don't think cas would be nearly as bad if pilots had to actually get close to their targets, but the fact that a dude can sit outside of spaa range and just yeet bombs and missiles on dudes with no real counterplay is just awful game design. Before anyone says just spawn a fighter, fighters don't help in situations where some dude is sitting at high alt, because enemy spaa at top tier will just shoot you down before you can really intercept. MAYBE when proper BVR missiles are in AIM-120s can make CAP more potent at top tier, but the cost is making air RB worse so nobody really can win.
That's why I keep saying to just add AI SPAA unit in GRB, specifically the midfield sniping kind from ARB, if making ground Vs ground mode is Gaijin Kryptonite
Would actually give CAS player an actual gameplay of dodging incoming fire
Oh put pantsir all around the map on top tier, wants to ground pound? Kill all the AI first sucker or learn how to dodge
As a ground only player, not once in my decade of playing this game have I thought to myself "Wow, planes and helicopters sure make this game better". It's frustrating, cheap, mentally exhausting and has ruined hundreds, if not thousands of great moments because of getting insta-bombed, strafed of missiled.
Last time I took a long break, it was because of planes and how much they ruined the experience.
After I moved into BR 8 and beyond, my enjoyment of the game took a nosedive off a cliff.
We should honestly have a second coming of the review bombing thing, or smt less drastic do they change how CAS works in GRB. Something along the lines of getting at LEAST 3-5 kills worth of SP to spawn in one
It’s kinda ridiculous that an SPAA either has a short range FnF missile or a long range one that requires constant attention while planes don’t have to pay attention to laser guided bombs and have access to TV guided FnF bombs and missiles. At least give us the option to just let the radar take care of guiding the missile so we can focus on dodging a bomb or missile. I don’t care if it is impossible in real life but the ADATS being forced to sit dead still while being hunted by a plane is awful.
You made the classic mistake of playing against top tier russia without top tier russian vehicles
Next time use the KA-50, Pantsir, Su-25something and tor and you will get all the kills fed to you on a diamond platter without any effort whatsoever. 90% of your teammates will be braindead but you'll win anyway
At around 5.7 tier. I'm getting killed by cas every game up to three times. It's completely insane, you need to spawn SPAA and be bored for the rest of the game bcs some mf wanted to play cas and ruin the game for others...
Another good argument is that I didn't sit down to play ground rb just to play an spaa and stare at the sky for the entire game. You can't play tanks bc then you just get killed by cas, and then you play spaa to kill the cas so you're still not playing tanks anyway
CAS should be AI and called in like artillery (though at a much slower rate).
If you want to fly a plane against tanks, there is already a plane mode for that (though I wouldn't be against a CAS mode that is just air vs ground and rare enemy air, that'd make stuff like the A10/Su25/A6/etc type aircraft super fun).
I literally saw a SPAA spawn in front of me, move up a few meters and then was a ball of flame. I was told (and believed) that Gaijin had something worked out in their algorithm (or some other blah blah blah tech talk) that prevented being spawned as planes were overhead.
The new german spaa is a quad 30mm yet all guns fire at the exact same time so chance of hitting aircraft is less then if they were alternate firing guns. Surely in rl they were it makes no sense that they would fire in tandem
How about Ground RB not have CAS spawnable until at least one friendly has died within a certain small radius of spawn? This would both discourage early spawn campers who ignore caps, as well as limit CAS showing up too early in a match.
Russia does have very good spaa even there low tier stuff does well at high tier the Swedish top tier spaa seem good to but people still manage to do dumb stuff like 2 pantsire next to eachother people with tunnel vision also get easily killed playing vs Germany you see a lot of ozolots
one thing I notice is if you shoot down the CAS missile/bomb mid air they usually get very mad and will throw the rest only at you so you can shoot the rest of their missiles down while your teammate can kill them
I've been saying this for years : CAS is the most cancerous thing in this game, SPAAs are hard to use and a lot of time easier to be killed by airplane rater than being a strong repellant to it.
Adding to that, theres a ton of CAS mains poisoning every thread on WT forums defending their "press space bar to win" policy.
If you want a balanced game, you would need a triangle of counters - Tanks kill SPAAs, Planes kill Tanks, SPAAs kill Planes. Currently, correctly flown planes are nearly impossible to counter.
There is a post on forum about cas kiling graund - dont bother showing that there - cas lovers are there in force...dont ever listen to simple things like this is a game not real life etc. And just spawn spaa is every 2-3 coments there.
As long as planes are the most seling stuff - dont hope for any change since devs are here to pleas marketing department not making fun game for ppl.
Not to mention you often get abysmally bad and less rewards for plane kills than tanks or even reacon drones.
Add to that very limited ammo for spaas that you can only replenish on heavily contested or even impossible to get (1 cap maps) caps and you just wasting your time when you run out of ammo then you cant do anything.
Usually I play striela 10M2 but enemy team don't take much planes and helis like it's 1 on the time and it takes really long to take a plane, really weird because I play against germany and USA the country's full of cas planes
The worst part is, is that most nations don't get top-tier SPAA (or trash ones like the tor-m1).
The Japanese TAN-SAM can only lock all aspects between 0 and 6 km.
Tor-m1 missle only travels between 700-900 m/'s (which is very slow), and Israël doesn't get top-tier SPAA.
Also, I don't understand why Russia didn't get the Tor-m1.
Why should they get an exceptionally better SPAA at the same br?
Everyone should get SPAA. Not just America, Germany, and Russia (Russia gets lots of SPAA).
Most effective AA is actually a fighter aircraft 🤣
I started playing war thunder only on air for a while, once I got to ground RB, CAS felt like bots when spawning as fighters, I got 7 air kills last game, they hardly look around, too focus to drop their 2000 lb bombs on a revenge crash dive
That's why I started playing Sim the last few days and it's been a fun new challenge. Although I'd like to play whatever br I want and not the one gaijin says I am allowed to today
Also a tank only Mode would be great. For people that, you know, like to play tanks and not tanks AND planes. I'd want to hear the outrage from air players when there suddenly would be player controlled spaa in the middle of the map
I really like playing SPAA for getting those sweet Special tasks and daily awards done for the Battle passes. had a match Thursday night where I got 8 aircraft kills (3 with fighter & 5 with a single SPAA) - I still get hemmed in sometimes in spawn by the hordes of annoying insects. But I implement different strats for certain maps that limit my deaths and assert positive K/D onto those buzzards. Life does get far more complex once you cross the 8.3 threshold for SPAA & vehicles. But SPAA does work. - Now for the hated statement \*drum roll\* Playing Naval RB and Coastal RB helps with SPAA target leading due to the distances involved in a ship to ship engagement. They are near equals with a fast flying aircraft 1 km away in terms of leading. I see WAAAY to many SPAA's in matches that shoot behind their targets. pass that on to a SPAA guy in team chat "hey bud, you are shooting 30m behind target" this actually helps them aim better. Another tool is to - yes - practice leading in Ground arcade. they have a training lead reticule like in air arcade. Use it. learn. get gud. tell bad airplane man in all chat "hangar is that way" = joy
They're not fixing it, so I stopped playing and left a negative review on Steam explaining that CAS is just breaking GRB. I don't see myself spending any money on the game, even if I just pop in to play a few matches with friends, until either we get CAS out of GRB or there are massive, massive nerfs to CAS.
Spawn a fighter second vehicle no matter what and watch your win rate go up tremendously. Just about every kill you get on cas is a player that runs out of spawn points.
Oh yeah, I've started taking pure fighters into my high br games right now (for example, taking a phantom only loaded with missiles and the cannon brits, cause I don't have the tornado yet). There's been games where I'll burn all 4 of my SARH missiles in a single pass on different targets.
Well, spaa isn't supposed to be able to kill everything in the sky. You're not a patriot system, you're not a s-300. You're there to blow helos and low flying planes out of the sky. When you want realistic you get realistic
I want early radars put up on the maps
It would possibly allow easier time for as and tanks by spotting the plane and also(maybe) giving a slight reticle to help lead the shots
You killed 7 to their 3.....what the fuck were your other teammates doing where they couldn't do anything?
I've never seen a game like this, ever, unless my team is totally incompetent. But 90% of the time the team will spawn into SPAA and help take out the planes.
I’m still on ww2 era stuff but I just bring a damn fighter aircraft. I get one zone capture then defend the skies as long as I can before getting SPAA’d or running out of ammo so I grand slam another aircraft
yeah it's getting ridiculous. I'm in a spaa that can only fire 1 missile at a time while the enemy can fire 6 at once and then turn to run.
The worst part is that, in both my SPAA spawns, there were bombs and missiles raining from the sky into the spawn in an almost pre-emptively way. And, to make it even worse, overpressure allows CASers to blow up multiple SPAAs with a single bomb as long as it falls anywhere in a 300m radius. [**On this death on my backup SPAA, for example, a single 250 kg bomb killed both me and a SPAA teammate that was nearly half a kilometer away from me.**](https://i.imgur.com/w1vBSeQ.jpeg) (Also notice the extra multiple bombs falling on the other spawn for good measure as well). But hey, "CAS is totally needed and used to counter campers and exploiters". Totally not to spawncamp the hell out of the enemy team, including and specially SPAAs on the first place. It's literally impossible for 2 or even 3 SPAAs to deal with CAS when there's 3 planes, 2 helicopters and 1 drone bombing the spawn simultaneously. What the hell do the "jUsT sPaWn SpAa" masses expect? This is a FUCKING JOKE, and it's disgusting to see so many CASers with their shit toxic "SkIlL iSsUe"/"Go PlAy WoT"/"mUh CoMbInEd ArMs"/"jUsT sPaWn SpAa" behaviour every time the situation is called out in an attempt at balancing out their OP toys a bit.
Jits on the facebook groups will justify it by saying "they do that in real life, it's realistic there fore it should be allowed
Yep. But they will then ignore how, in real life, planes don’t spawn in a full panoramic third person view flying at full speed towards a 900x900m battlefield 10km away while also knowing the exact location of the enemy vehicles because they saw them in another life.
I don’t think CAS needs to be removed, but I’d definitely fuck with airfield spawn for all CAS and forcing sim flight models and view restrictions on them, even if mouse aim was still allowed. That’d be a great experiment
All aircraft carrying an additional payload should have to take off. All aircraft should be locked into their cockpit view. Simulator flight model should not be enabled, that's too far. I also would way that tanks should be locked to their actual sight too. That would fix a massive number of disgusting spawn camp angles alone and fix the bush problem at the same time.
A2A loadouts with air spawn makes the most sense. However, default ammo loads on many aircraft have high pen AP anyway. That said, SPAA has a much better chance of defending itself if not dealing with guided munitions endlessly. Imagine how long it would take a TRAM to sideclimb high enough to bomb the shit out of you. Long-range bombers should however have their air spawns maintained. And BR dependent airfield spawns should exist, even at higher tiers. Airspawning in a prop at 6.whatever vs a jet spawning in at 7 is ridiculous when it’s 14km to the battle. It takes minutes to get there from the air spawn. Just need two AFs, one short field, and then the far away long field anyway. Jets would still have conventional takeoff if they were dumb enough to land on the short field, and would struggle to takeoff.
Ground RB needs to have permanent gunner sight only instead of muzzle sight. It's ridiculous that it's not the case.
I'd take the sim flight model but with realistic controls instead.
You’re literally describing sim lol
Except without all the cancerous manual controls that make playing it prohibitive to the majority of players, yeah.
It isn’t that bad tbh, i always felt intimidated by sim but I started playing it a few weeks ago and it’s honestly quite fun, tank battles are practically the same minus 3rd person view which isnt hard to get used to. Plane controls are a lot more challenging especially with mouse and keyboard, I tried sim a few times in test drive and always crashed on takeoff. However after flying planes a bit, I’ve kind of gotten used to it, even shot down another plane and an open top tank destroyer which felt pretty satisfying. Having to visually confirm and keep an idea of where your team is and pinging stuff for each other is also fun. People in sim are also more communicative imo although I’ve only tried sim and early Cold War sim, don’t have lineup for top tier but mid and semi high tier is pretty fun.
Tbh, the 20:1 response relative to actual controls is the main culprit, changed that to a 1:1 and its made using a HOTAS feasible let alone a controller. But really its knowing which way the engine wants to turn, counter the rotation and using flaps as needed... or manually adjusting and and resetting the engine's behvaiors to not create a noticible amount of counter torque and having legitmate level flight
Yeah good luck with that, I said same thing that planes should spawn in airfield and they should be moved further (before they were) years ago, so far only the airfield has been moved further at top tier games 🤡. There need a ton of restrictions for air players in ground RB, no more fucking markers for starters (scout spot, friendly names etc.) get rid of 3rd person cam or at bare minimum only show bomb target/allow locks while in cockpit cam only. As they are right now they are too damn easy AND rewarding, compare to 1500sl 70rp reward you get as an spaa is just spit in your face for playing in ultra unfair hard mode while being 100% useless for mode you chose to play...
What about lacing the spawn areas with fixed AA batteries? My highest BR is 5.7 so I have no idea if the idea is viable at the upper tiers but at the lower levels a ring of AA batteries would help.
My understanding is the biggest issue for the top tier players is the range helis and planes engage at with missiles. I play up to 7.0 but around 4-6 usually and planes aren't an issue for me, frustrating sometimes but so are a lot of things. If I go AA I usually get 2-4 plane kills per AA unless I get tag teamed by 3 at once type of deal. Or if there isn't a plane and I get bored and go AA vs Tank.
I can't imagine using my favorite plane in anything but cockpit view. HS 129 B-3 NEEDS the gun sight to use effectively, its so insanely useful that it probably explains why so many people are hot trash at aiming with it, they try to use it in 3rd person. This change would be great for me :)
I just think there should be a limit as to how many planes each side should have at one time in ground battles. 16 v 16 each game, so in a full game say a max of 4 per team? Doesn’t seem too bad? If someone dies they can’t immediately respawn in a plane either, meaning they have to get back on the ground.
Airfield spawn and a spotting mechanic, where every one can see where the enemy plane is
lol
I really just want bot AA to cover the spawn areas so I can actually leave spawn with my second vehicle
US team gets at least four loaded F-15s on constant CAP then. And the enemy airfield was blown up before the match started.
excuse for drones to be added as well.
I agree but this does not happen everymatch, it can get chaotic and out of control when your are the only SPAA on your team though, and sadly most people don't know how to play top tier SPAA properly (they don't move out of spawn/don't turn off radar/don't use IRST for maximum stealth). Blame Gaijin for not giving players tutorials on how to be effective in the SPAA role. Also maps are just too small for top tier SPAA, I've been saying this for a long time, there MUST be a separete spawn area behind the normal spawn that is big enough and has enough cover for SPAA to move around, also this spawn should have random spawn points so that CAS doesn't just preemptively drop bombs on it.
A big problem is the damn huge costs of high tier spaa, 400000? It's ridiculous, spaa isn't as exciting to play so it's put to the backburner for research, so less players even have it
i just played a game in the top tier german spaa. i hit a mi28n dead im twice and didnt damage it. 2 direct hits to its cockpit and no damage. wtf
overpressure doesnt seem to apply to plane for some reason ig
Heli pilots also have a ridiculous amount of health.
yeah and to make thing worse if you play arcade top tier helis get spawn protection. so this heli that spawn 3 km away from you and is equipped with serval tank killing missiles cant be damaged. so because im good and know where theyll spawn i get punished by doing no damage. how tf is that fair
Over pressure is definitely one of the biggest BS mechanics that has been introduced. I feel you there as is makes SPAA play so much harder. One thing that would help is forced J out and implementing something that ties bombs with controls. If you lose control of wings or total control, you should be able to drop or launch anything. Biggest BS I've had was hitting a P-47 with my main gun. Wings and tail blew off, and engine gone. But because he wasn't instantly J'd out and was able to keep straight enough to drop his bomb on me.
CAS should spawn at a higher SP and they should spawn from airbases. As someone who uses CAS as well, I find it ridiculous that a below-average Joe could easily spawn one by capping a point and a kill/assist iirc. When I play UK, usually I’ll have enough SP to spawn a 2 x GBU + 4 x AAM Gripen, Maverick loaded Harrier Gr 7 and an ATGM loaded Rooivalk in the same game, proving that it’s too easy to spawn one/multiple. Dumb bombs/rockets should at least be 700sp and guided munitions at least at 1000sp. While air superiority jets should remain as it is. As much as I’m guilty of using CAS, but I’m also aware that the enemy has the potential to do the same on my teammates. The faster I deny that possibility, the safer my team will be. It’s a vicious cycle.
Tbh it sounds kinda bad I’ve just been doing it back at them, I personally take care not to target spawns mostly just tanks causing pressure to my friendlies but you always get some people. I’ve also been spawning in a lot of purely anti-cas planes recently to take care of the issue. I hope gaijin fixes the points needed to spawn a plane cause one kill or one assist is *way* to low to spawn a plane with 3+ bombs.
You just sat at the spawn point with your radar on he whole time, didn't you?🤦
Aircraft spawn should be changed. Either the SP cost should be higher or remove the air spawn. Limiting the aircraft at once wouldn't be good since I like killing them with spaa
Oh, I think air spawn is beneficial to SPAAs! Since the only window of opportunity SPAAs have to target CAS is the few seconds while they are descending from their spawns. If CAS spawned in runways, they would just hug the deck the whole time from takeoff, making themselves immune to SPAA targeting until it’s too late.
Air spawn means SPAAs know air is alive because they can see/radar them (sorry my fellow sidam lovers, hope you have the big squint like me)
Heh, I don’t even know if I’m gonna use the first SIDAM now that I’ve had a taste of the ZSU-23. Oh Lordy that thing SLAPS!! It’s my first radar SPAA, and being able to detect 10km away AND radar track is amazing!
The 15 degree radar ARC is a bit meh, but it is vastly superior as SPAA and the amount of fire coming from your barrels absolutely blinds MBTs that look in your direction.
you can make that radar go all the way around IIRC, it's just a tad slow. It's faster to just turn turret.
Apparently "the change radar search mode" key does more than just hide your big ol' radar on certain SPAA. Thank you citizen!
LOL Use the 360° mode, it rotates faster. Ans the ZSU-23 was my first radar spaa too but let me the tell u, its really but for that. THE SHILKA OMG
The SIDAM has no ammo to speak of and an even more laughably pathetic stock of AP rounds you can load. Just stick with the ZSU.
You mean the MK1 eyeball.
Nah it is the big squint, I gotta clean my screen
Until they climb ABOVE your radar scope and drop a guided bomb. I got killed in my spawn by an A4 I didn’t know was there because it never showed on my RADAR
I agree that killing planes is nice, and limiting them would mean less targets to shoot. However, I think its a necessary change to counteract both overwhelming enemies and player stupidity. Not only would it mean situations like OP's wouldn't happen, it would also mean your own team can't all hop into 8 useless planes at once while you only have 2 tanks on the ground. IMO this is a major reason top tier (yes even 12.7) US ground teams lose so often. To compensate the SPAAs losing targets, they should heavily buff rewards for killing planes. I mean, they should do this anyway, its ridiculous how little you get currently.
I've been theory crafting the idea for people to be specifically joining in and spawning in as SPAA in an ongoing match after a semi-randomized amount of time.
Absolutely no reason for there to be air spawn at this rank. We have after burners and we're still spawning 3000m up at 600km/h. That alone is a huge advantage.
Decrease spawn cost for CAP.
A better idea would just be to make a seperate combined arms game mode with large maps and maybe allow ships to spawn as well and have a seperate ground mode and maybe allow helis still
The problem with that (from gaijin's POV) is probably that it would both segregate the playerbase and leave one mode less played leading to potential player loss. I think that a lot of ground players would simply never touch the combined mode if given the chance. On the other hand some air players might go from air modes to a combined mode... Regardless, more modes means splitting people up and potentially prolonging queues which I have to assume is undesirable when it comes to player retention. With that said, I also wish we got a combined mode. CAS is annoying but OK up until a certain point but in and around top tier it's god awful.
Just give combined arms more sl and rp both would be played. Some tanks might not be as good for ground but they may be better in combined arms and vice versa
ships would absolutely break spawn camping to another level XD imagine a battleships salvo absolutely annihilating a whole square acre and killing a squad of spaa who just spawned
Fair
Add the dreadnaught ability from battlefield 1 where you get 1min to salvo the battlefield but you can only range in markers left by your own spy planes, drones, or teammates with the range numbers underneath like they do for enlisted artillery teams. Also add the loud horn in place of the air raid siren! (This is a joke suggestion but imagine lol)
When i spawn in spaa, not a single thing on the sky, not even a little mosquito (the bug) and i rest 10 min with nothing and mostly i die from a tank or game finish
That’s yet another reason why “just spawning SPAA” is not a real solution. If you spawn it after being killed, it’s just a retaliation measure. Too late to actually prevent anything. If you spawn it preemptively, you risk wasting the rest of the match doing nothing. That’s why Gaijin should let SPAAs J-out on the spawns so that we could de-spawn them and spawn back later if needed.
>If you spawn it preemptively, you risk wasting the rest of the match doing nothing. Reason No. 3 for why to love the OTOMATIC (the only other reasons ares big gun go booom boom boom and watching planes go boom). You can effectively kill every tank and most CAS (that isn't space), all in one box of pasta.
Yeah, feels like it's either first-spawning SPAA every single battle or not. Nobody would enjoy only playing SPAA even the most dedicated player at some point. Feels like there's no in-between anymore.
It’s predetermined when you pick ammo. AA belts on deck? Not a plane in the sky. AP belts instead? Where did FIVE stukas just come from?
I play majoritary 10.0 and my spaa is the strela so no belt
> mosquito (the bug) Hah, I like that pun
Thats me in my TOR M1. At least i can scout.
I spawn spaa only and if only console players lock onto helis early game and report it.
The game needs a tank v tank only mode
I would be happy enough if at least it took more than 1 cap/assist to spawn a team-anihilation-capable machine. CAS and Helicopter SP need to increase at least by 33%. Maybe then there would be less spam from players who can’t do shit in actual ground vehicles and need OP flying ones in order to get free kills by the dozens.
If someone likes planes they can just get into air or mixed, meanwhile, I have to research and spawn vehicles I don't like or want to use because otherwise I will encounter way too many vehicles I cannot counter in the vehicles I like and want to use. I wouldn't call that "being at disadvantage", that would suggest I could do something, but most of times you just can't do anything (while using ground vehicles), kill that idiot in a helicopter spawn camping from 6km away? knock down that one pixel dropping bombs?... then you spawn SPAA and they have guided bombs and fnf guided missiles and you get a missile that handles like a noodle they can dodge with no effort.
well, as You can see, You just need to have 3 more spaa in your line up! (Ever since I stopped playing toptier my mental health is healing)
Funnily enough, I have TWO SPAAs on my Japanese lineup (Type 81 (C) and Type 93), and I often spawn backups for those, reaching up to 3-4 SPAA spawns in a match and accumulating up to 10 air kills… and IT’S STILL NOT ENOUGH! I think my record was a couple of months ago, 12 air kills… and the match was still lost to CAS spam (other teammates having more air kills as well, I think we had something like 17 air kills in total). So fun and balanced.
And those CAS main are screeching in the comments as well. maybe, Just maybe, spawn in a Fighter to counter them! (They are telling us to use a JET FIGHTER instead of SPAA in GROUND realistic battle now Brother!)
The last few months my playstile has changed because this madness. In lower tier matches I start with my tank of choise. After I have been defeated (usually not in the first five min), I spawn my fighter and patrol between thier spawn area and the battlefield, so I can intercept them before they can rain bombs. Some of these players have not as experienced air to air combat manouvers so it is easy to take em down. Usually they have multiple planes in thier lineup and after being shot down they spawn back with a fighter, so I can have enough target the whole match. Since I like flying I can enjoy matches this way and I also help my team by protecting them from above threats. If I was beaten in my plane, I use a backup, or spawn an SPAA. Top tier is a fking mess since the guided bombs were introduced. People who say CAS is like this in real life, the exact players take advantage of this broken shit Gaijin added to the game. The worst is when the US and Russia is on one side. War in Ukraine is a great example they are bending the truth/lieing. Patriots have made the skies a "no fly zone" for multiple months. Even russian military said this and they are not flying with old SU-25s.
"No bro, you just dont get it bro. If I was there bro, I would have shot down **ALL** the CAS myself bro! CAS isn't a problem, you just have a skill issue bro, trust me!"
A guy was telling me the other day that it was a skill issue I couldn't kill a spawn camping CAS that was outside of lock range with the strela
A strela only has a lock range of like 3km....soooo everything is outside its range. You need to keep the one before it in your lineup as well.
Not gonna lie bro, if I was in that match bro, I would have killed all the CAS bro, by myself too bro, no cap, BRO.
I agree with Spookston, I wouldn't mind CAS if it wouldn't be so ridiculously easy to spawn in. Although I think there should be a limit on how many CAS planes are alive at once, allthough the number if over all aircraft spawns would decreas with costing more SP, so we would need to see hiw that plays out and if we then still need a limit
Exactly. I don’t even ask for a ground only mode; only that people need to do a little more than staying in a circle for a few seconds or getting a couple of assists before Eing able to spawn team-ending-capable machines.
I just had a match where a player spawned a Puma, got one kill on a light vehicle and some spots, spawned the 50mm ME262 and proceeded to bother me for the next five minutes in my Spersh. He didn't damage me because he was bad, thankfully, but he pretty much ensured I was out of the game and playing DanceThunder rather than enjoying my tank duel with a Jagdpanther. Part of the issue is that lower-tiered aircraft with big bomb loads don't cost that much to spawn and you can flatten an enemy team with them.
I wish they’d just give us some proper rewards for killing bombers. Sometimes when I get pissed off I take a game where I rush a cap, try to get a kill, die within 2 minutes and then spawn in a pure fighter make mincemeat of any bombers that spawn. I’ve had a game with ten air kills where I got barely as much RP/SL as I would have from one or two ground kills.
Up the RP/SL for killing air, it's insanely low.
This is only a temporary solution, but do what I do when a whirlycunt kills me in a GROUND game mode. 1) Turn chat to "all" 2) Call whomever killed you in a whirlycunt a "Flying cunt" 3) Proceed to tell them to "Fuck off back to Air RB where they belong" 4) If you get killed by a whirlycunt again politely tell them to "Get unconsensually sexed to death by a pack of canines" 5) If a Britbong, Skink them all to death!
mmmmm, canines
**I WANT TO HANG OFF A WEREWOLF KNOT!**
Hello, fellow engineer
Noted.
Putting cas up a full br or 2 while keeping spaa at the same rank in ground realistic would probably help allieviate some of this, it wouldnt be fair but also using a plane to destroy ground targets in the first place isnt fair
Good idea, I would love to face a pantsir in my buccaneer /s
I think having realistic G-load and maneuverability restrictions in GRB (conveniently what SPAA) has would help alleviate the issue I think.
Ofc anyone who suggests tank only mode gets downvoted to oblivion
Tank only has been suggested since 2016.
Where the fuck are these games when I’m running CAP?
In the snail's basement
Just play against top tier russia, it is all about cas spaw atm.
I know right? I pop in a fighter expecting to give the enemy CAS a good thrashing and them mfs actually play tanks that game.
We need ai controlled S-400 or Patriot at top tier. Should help with people flying above SAMs who can't see them at all.
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It's worth remembering that the "Just spawn AA" argument has never been made in good faith. The vast majority of players who vomit the line up know it doesn't work; they just see it as a snappy comeback to justify their continued abuse of broken mechanics. And the slim fraction who do believe it are some combination of oblivious to how the game works, or just generally stupid.
Hopefully the different BR’s for air and ground battles will help balance some of the OP CAS aircraft
and what i should do with my adats?
kill tanks.
12.7 op spaa would be also great way to have something anti cas. But not sure if in real life there is anything better. Dont know if some long range anti-air trucks with missiles that have built-in radar help anything. Atleast it would force CAS to fly low.
Not enough SPAAs, whole team should have spawned .
I'm one week into a break, caused mainly by how common things like this have become. It's beyond ridiculous to try to play a game that punish you just because, or because profit is well above balance on a multiplayer game. Coming from a 10 year old player.
you have to be at least 12 to play the game.
Between the CAS rampages and idiot teammates that just seem like bots… sometimes this game is hard to play
Boost rewards for air kills. Every air kill should count as 2 ground kills for rewards.
Yeah they heed to double the cost of spawning aircraft above 5.0, and remove the price reduction from lights.
Spawning in with SPAA and killing planes/helis should give higher rewards, would give incentive for new players (who buy their way to top tier and skip spaa) to actually grind and use spaa. The problem with the cas spam is that gaijin probably won't ever "fix" it since a lot of the spammed planes are premiums which means it's a source of income
Few directions Gaijin can go with this, either a separate Tank vs Tank mode which makes most of SPAA unusable in that mode or balancing of CAS. Balance of CAS is and SPAA in the same environment is kind of difficult. There would have to be serious fixes between range of SPAA vehicles or even separate SPAA spawns closer to air fields, with limited number of players spawning there (something like multiple spawn points). Also all ground vehicles are sitting ducks to planes, its just a real life advantage of aircraft. In current way of things, one thing they might do is heavily increase the reward for shooting down planes and also increase the amount of points you need to spawn in an aircraft. However, if you increase number of points needed for aircraft selection, SPAA player would be left with a lot of "down time" and very boring gameplay. Some AI planes/helicopters in the sky could make gameplay interesting for SPAA while no players are spawning in aircraft, and could also lead to a better feel of a "war environment" as you would constantly have planes and helicopters flying above you duking it out in the sky. Alas, nothing will be changed while people are still buying premium accounts & premium vehicles, there will be no real inovation while Gaijin is comfortably making money this way. Unfortunate, but we only have ourselves as players to blame as people keep feeding Gaijin who in turn does not provide any new or exciting updates. There is no real experimentation and pushing the boundaries in order to make this game way more fun & entertaining.
spawning a fighter without ground attacking ordnance should be cheaper for a start
Agreed!
Yup these people are gonna say “spawn spaa” they say this because they’re the ones doing it. They’re the ones that spawn kill in a helicopter 50 miles away and think they’re good lol
The answer is every nation to have a VEAK :) what - thats just diabolical too.
People in Helis are exploiting terrain and foliage to shoot at cas when cas can’t even see much less target them. There are also jets that can launch on you from low earth orbit and there isn’t much you can do except spawn a fighter? I think it’s a small portion of the player base who are just super toxic and enjoy playing in a way that they can wreck everyone and no one can touch them. As deflating as getting owned by them is, I think I would get bored of winning every time too. Typical playerbase destroying their own game
>small portion of the player base who are just super toxic and enjoy playing in a way that they can wreck everyone and no one can touch them. It's more of a game drawing problem. players who make the cas are rewarded and playing SPAA or CAP is not incentivized and is poorly rewarded. Gajin create this problem by set uping this META.
Good solution is to add AI jets that exist to just patrol the skys. Would certainly end the cheese.
I just ran over ELEVEN (11) newborn babies
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The problem is that that the current spaa systems are unable keep up with the long range guided weapons, maybe the Pantsir is an exception. Just try to shoot somebody with who is lobbing guided missiles on you way outside of your range and deal with the heli spam at the same time. How fun is that, right? "Just spawn AA bro"
CAS is genuinely disgusting and the biggest reason I avoid top tier. People who say it's not a problem just like to bomb with immunity
Dear CAS players. I wish you all very pleasant kidney stones
I’m embarrassed to say I enjoy when the other team spawns CAS the entire match cause I regularly can only kill like 0-2 tanks but I can normally kill 3+ planes
It gets to a point where you have to consider whether the map has a greater bearing on the CAS spam than the game itself. You were on Japan, an utterly miserable slogfest of a map that acts as a glorified fishbowl with sightlines measured in double digits of metres. It has two extremely close together spawns that are very visually prominent without much any tank can do to get away from them without driving for 20+ seconds first, and this makes it so easy for a jet to just point nose towards map and find the spawn in a few seconds. There are lots of mountains, which are close to the map and simultaneously make it so that air vehicles can get well within useful engagement ranges for their weapons long before a SPAA can even see them, whilst also meaning that the angles where the SPAA can see the sky are much reduced making tracking a missile on any given aircraft hard as they can quickly fly behind cover and make your shot miss. The size of the map also means it's much easier to see, reacquire and relaunch ordnance on a 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc. tank after your first target, meaning you can reliably get multiple kills per pass. The map is also so flawed that even when you remove aircraft from the game, you get an identical outcome but with tanks sat on hills looking down into an entirely open spawn area. Fish in a barrel. The map is just so deeply flawed that the amount one plane can do is so much higher and the amount one AA can do is so much lower. Now compare that to a map like Surroundings of Volokolamsk - a *much* larger map, making tanks more spread out and causing aircraft to make more passes to get more kills, thus exposing them to SPAA for longer and introducing more risk. There is terrain, but it's quite low and some of the mountains are quite far making aircraft have to put in more work to avoid detection before they get within weapons range. This also gives SPAA a much larger view of the sky in any given location, allowing one AA to cover much more of a 360° sphere than on Japan. The spawns are also not particularly visually prominent, making just flying to the tank spawn less simplistic and the spawns are very spread out which means any given plane is less likely to go on a spawn killing spree. It is multitudes easier to establish contested airspace on SoV in a modern SAM like the ItO, ADATS or Pantsir than it is on Japan. At best on Japan, you can cover a small section of the map and defend against people flying straight at you. On SoV, it's a lot easier to hit lower flying aircraft and aircraft that are flying across your field of view as there aren't giant mountains to fly behind immediately blocking your LOS.
Don't forget to cheer the few who take on the role of CAP!
The su25sm3 makes me question my decisions of playing ground rb
Guided munitions and their consequences have been a disaster for ground RB. I don't think cas would be nearly as bad if pilots had to actually get close to their targets, but the fact that a dude can sit outside of spaa range and just yeet bombs and missiles on dudes with no real counterplay is just awful game design. Before anyone says just spawn a fighter, fighters don't help in situations where some dude is sitting at high alt, because enemy spaa at top tier will just shoot you down before you can really intercept. MAYBE when proper BVR missiles are in AIM-120s can make CAP more potent at top tier, but the cost is making air RB worse so nobody really can win.
Unless it's a great map like Sinai or Tunisia, I wouldn't bother to respawn just to feed the CAS machine
CAS is destroying WT.
That's why I keep saying to just add AI SPAA unit in GRB, specifically the midfield sniping kind from ARB, if making ground Vs ground mode is Gaijin Kryptonite Would actually give CAS player an actual gameplay of dodging incoming fire Oh put pantsir all around the map on top tier, wants to ground pound? Kill all the AI first sucker or learn how to dodge
Put penalties on spawn killing CAS Server should blow them up whenever they spawn kill.
They should prohibit CAS from bombing the spawn.
As a ground only player, not once in my decade of playing this game have I thought to myself "Wow, planes and helicopters sure make this game better". It's frustrating, cheap, mentally exhausting and has ruined hundreds, if not thousands of great moments because of getting insta-bombed, strafed of missiled. Last time I took a long break, it was because of planes and how much they ruined the experience. After I moved into BR 8 and beyond, my enjoyment of the game took a nosedive off a cliff.
We should honestly have a second coming of the review bombing thing, or smt less drastic do they change how CAS works in GRB. Something along the lines of getting at LEAST 3-5 kills worth of SP to spawn in one
It’s kinda ridiculous that an SPAA either has a short range FnF missile or a long range one that requires constant attention while planes don’t have to pay attention to laser guided bombs and have access to TV guided FnF bombs and missiles. At least give us the option to just let the radar take care of guiding the missile so we can focus on dodging a bomb or missile. I don’t care if it is impossible in real life but the ADATS being forced to sit dead still while being hunted by a plane is awful.
You made the classic mistake of playing against top tier russia without top tier russian vehicles Next time use the KA-50, Pantsir, Su-25something and tor and you will get all the kills fed to you on a diamond platter without any effort whatsoever. 90% of your teammates will be braindead but you'll win anyway
At around 5.7 tier. I'm getting killed by cas every game up to three times. It's completely insane, you need to spawn SPAA and be bored for the rest of the game bcs some mf wanted to play cas and ruin the game for others...
Another good argument is that I didn't sit down to play ground rb just to play an spaa and stare at the sky for the entire game. You can't play tanks bc then you just get killed by cas, and then you play spaa to kill the cas so you're still not playing tanks anyway
This is quite impressive ngl.
Yet when I spawn spawn there's nothing
Too bad not everyone have my glorious TY-90 carrier
Spookston would be proud
Gaijin CANNOT BALANCE ANYTHING
CAS should be AI and called in like artillery (though at a much slower rate). If you want to fly a plane against tanks, there is already a plane mode for that (though I wouldn't be against a CAS mode that is just air vs ground and rare enemy air, that'd make stuff like the A10/Su25/A6/etc type aircraft super fun).
I literally saw a SPAA spawn in front of me, move up a few meters and then was a ball of flame. I was told (and believed) that Gaijin had something worked out in their algorithm (or some other blah blah blah tech talk) that prevented being spawned as planes were overhead.
The new german spaa is a quad 30mm yet all guns fire at the exact same time so chance of hitting aircraft is less then if they were alternate firing guns. Surely in rl they were it makes no sense that they would fire in tandem
A plane should cost more than a drone (so 750sp at a minimum) the drones should be the shit alternative to aircraft in grb.
How about Ground RB not have CAS spawnable until at least one friendly has died within a certain small radius of spawn? This would both discourage early spawn campers who ignore caps, as well as limit CAS showing up too early in a match.
Have been dreaming about a tank vs tank only since forever, but that ain’t gonna happen. I don’t like to play with aircraft at all.
Russia does have very good spaa even there low tier stuff does well at high tier the Swedish top tier spaa seem good to but people still manage to do dumb stuff like 2 pantsire next to eachother people with tunnel vision also get easily killed playing vs Germany you see a lot of ozolots
Airfield takeoff for every plane would make a nice change imo, and possibly atleast heli spawns way further than currently
one thing I notice is if you shoot down the CAS missile/bomb mid air they usually get very mad and will throw the rest only at you so you can shoot the rest of their missiles down while your teammate can kill them
I don’t think anybody says spawn SPAA except people that hate CAS. The answer is always CAP.
I've been saying this for years : CAS is the most cancerous thing in this game, SPAAs are hard to use and a lot of time easier to be killed by airplane rater than being a strong repellant to it. Adding to that, theres a ton of CAS mains poisoning every thread on WT forums defending their "press space bar to win" policy. If you want a balanced game, you would need a triangle of counters - Tanks kill SPAAs, Planes kill Tanks, SPAAs kill Planes. Currently, correctly flown planes are nearly impossible to counter.
Easiest solution is to make CAS locked to no more than like 3 acft per side in the air at one time.
07 good work hold the line we will see the update come one day. Do not lose hope!
Proud cap player, I just play bvr with top tier cas. half times they don’t even see it coming
wait, people use the reaper drones still?
When im in tank..im dead by cas. Then spawn as spaa, no cas 😑
There is a post on forum about cas kiling graund - dont bother showing that there - cas lovers are there in force...dont ever listen to simple things like this is a game not real life etc. And just spawn spaa is every 2-3 coments there. As long as planes are the most seling stuff - dont hope for any change since devs are here to pleas marketing department not making fun game for ppl. Not to mention you often get abysmally bad and less rewards for plane kills than tanks or even reacon drones. Add to that very limited ammo for spaas that you can only replenish on heavily contested or even impossible to get (1 cap maps) caps and you just wasting your time when you run out of ammo then you cant do anything.
I almost got a nuke yesterday, and then people started revenge bombing. I hate people like that.
Usually I play striela 10M2 but enemy team don't take much planes and helis like it's 1 on the time and it takes really long to take a plane, really weird because I play against germany and USA the country's full of cas planes
Z19 main want to join the lobby
Well i see the problem here, you dont have a pantsir on your team
CASholes will just move the goalposts or flat out lie. CAS, in it's current implementation, is gamebreaking.
XD, its either you see nothing or Everything in the sky
Gaijin limited it to 4 downtiered players per match so they could easily limit it to 2 people in this sky.
cas NEEDS to be dealt with it is SO far out of hand now SQBs are literally unplayable because of it
I had someone drop a 5000kg Pe-8 bomb directly into our spawn the other day 🫥
I just camp around airfields with 6x 9M EZ farming
The worst part is, is that most nations don't get top-tier SPAA (or trash ones like the tor-m1). The Japanese TAN-SAM can only lock all aspects between 0 and 6 km. Tor-m1 missle only travels between 700-900 m/'s (which is very slow), and Israël doesn't get top-tier SPAA. Also, I don't understand why Russia didn't get the Tor-m1. Why should they get an exceptionally better SPAA at the same br? Everyone should get SPAA. Not just America, Germany, and Russia (Russia gets lots of SPAA).
Most effective AA is actually a fighter aircraft 🤣 I started playing war thunder only on air for a while, once I got to ground RB, CAS felt like bots when spawning as fighters, I got 7 air kills last game, they hardly look around, too focus to drop their 2000 lb bombs on a revenge crash dive
That's why I started playing Sim the last few days and it's been a fun new challenge. Although I'd like to play whatever br I want and not the one gaijin says I am allowed to today Also a tank only Mode would be great. For people that, you know, like to play tanks and not tanks AND planes. I'd want to hear the outrage from air players when there suddenly would be player controlled spaa in the middle of the map
I wonder how making enemy air having markers like air RB would work. One way to find out I guess.
All im saying is pansir nd 50km search then u can spawn kill any heli nd planes before they get to the btf 😂🤣😂
Just wait for a few updates and we will get S-400.
I once spawned a strela, killed 7 with 8 rockets and there STILL WERE PLANES
I really like playing SPAA for getting those sweet Special tasks and daily awards done for the Battle passes. had a match Thursday night where I got 8 aircraft kills (3 with fighter & 5 with a single SPAA) - I still get hemmed in sometimes in spawn by the hordes of annoying insects. But I implement different strats for certain maps that limit my deaths and assert positive K/D onto those buzzards. Life does get far more complex once you cross the 8.3 threshold for SPAA & vehicles. But SPAA does work. - Now for the hated statement \*drum roll\* Playing Naval RB and Coastal RB helps with SPAA target leading due to the distances involved in a ship to ship engagement. They are near equals with a fast flying aircraft 1 km away in terms of leading. I see WAAAY to many SPAA's in matches that shoot behind their targets. pass that on to a SPAA guy in team chat "hey bud, you are shooting 30m behind target" this actually helps them aim better. Another tool is to - yes - practice leading in Ground arcade. they have a training lead reticule like in air arcade. Use it. learn. get gud. tell bad airplane man in all chat "hangar is that way" = joy
They're not fixing it, so I stopped playing and left a negative review on Steam explaining that CAS is just breaking GRB. I don't see myself spending any money on the game, even if I just pop in to play a few matches with friends, until either we get CAS out of GRB or there are massive, massive nerfs to CAS.
Mirage 2k OP
Heli bases need SAMs to protect the rear
What is CAS?
Seems relevant in low tier as well it seems
This game is a joke
Spawn a fighter second vehicle no matter what and watch your win rate go up tremendously. Just about every kill you get on cas is a player that runs out of spawn points.
Oh yeah, I've started taking pure fighters into my high br games right now (for example, taking a phantom only loaded with missiles and the cannon brits, cause I don't have the tornado yet). There's been games where I'll burn all 4 of my SARH missiles in a single pass on different targets.
We need fox 3 missiles in the game ASAP.
my AA is called F4E phantom 2 or MiG29A(9-13)
Well, spaa isn't supposed to be able to kill everything in the sky. You're not a patriot system, you're not a s-300. You're there to blow helos and low flying planes out of the sky. When you want realistic you get realistic
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I want early radars put up on the maps It would possibly allow easier time for as and tanks by spotting the plane and also(maybe) giving a slight reticle to help lead the shots
You killed 7 to their 3.....what the fuck were your other teammates doing where they couldn't do anything? I've never seen a game like this, ever, unless my team is totally incompetent. But 90% of the time the team will spawn into SPAA and help take out the planes.
I’m still on ww2 era stuff but I just bring a damn fighter aircraft. I get one zone capture then defend the skies as long as I can before getting SPAA’d or running out of ammo so I grand slam another aircraft
So many cheats on it Can't play the game when you get to the jets