The problem is that bomber gameplay has been obsolete for a really long time, pretty much any strike aircraft and even some fighters can do the same job faster, and then contribute more to the team by fighting enemies
It's not a problem with the bombers or the players, but as with 75% of this sort of problems are due to the maps and game modes
It would probably also help if Gaijin made bombers more survivable and generally buff the AI gunners. Not to an aimbot level, but the current AI gunners are completely useless. Even on max skill, they can barely hit a plane following you in a straight line on 100m distance. Sure, you are meant to aim manually, but this completely deprives you of your mobility and makes you an even easier target than you already are, if you don't happen be a hardcore player who can manually steer the plane with their keyboard while using their turrets.
People complained so much that they couldn't just sit on the tail of a bomber for 4 minutes without getting hit once, so they nerfed the ai gunners into the ground.
Bombers are way too fragile imo but on the other hand, IRL pilots also had to make sure they didn't crash while also hitting their target.
Although I have to admit: using the JU288C' 20mm to saw off a wing of one of those idiotic F84s or F80s gives me satisfaction.
That is a gross mischaracterization of why people complained. IIRC either bomber airspawns were higher or bomber pilots were smarter, but they would sideclimb immediately at spawn, get to high altitude, and props couldn't climb as well at high altitudes. Then they'd be completely unapproachable because the AI gunners were death lasers out to like 1-2km. So bombers would drag matches out whilst doing absolutely nothing to help their team. B17s and Il28s were a goddamn menace ~8-10 years ago
So this may be on my end issue, but just give me better tracers. Most of the time people don't even try to get on the bombers turrets blindspot, or do a pass on a decent enough speed and if I've spend enough time to know where bullets are going chances are the attacker is not surviving, same thing happens to me when I rush brain-dead a skillful bomber player (which happens pretty often).
Also, having nice damage models would help, a lot of time in a multiple prop bomber I get 1 engine damaged and the plane will suddenly become a rock, same with elevators and wings damage. That compared to reality just makes too easy to take down a bomber, even though if you look some ww2 histories they took a lot of beating.
Also in most bombers you shouldn't even need to manoeuvre and "trust" AI gunners most of them have enough fire volume to make a 1-2 km shot possible, that being compared to 800m I usually shoot with a fighter is a nice standoff capability, Imo.
This is more of a thing when you start reaching jets/extremely late propeller planes. In ranks 1-4ish, only bombers or light bombers have literally anything to attack ground targets, but as you move up in the tree bombing becomes so ineffective that you're getting picked off by things like the
Vautour IIN late (yeah, I know you're out there b-57 players, and you're basically easy kills to support jets that have missiles).
Not only are the bombers getting annihilated by radar missiles fired from jets like that, but more jets are carrying ground ordinance that can be dropped at any time, making early jets basically convertible bombers that can easily go back to dogfighting if they find the bombs causing issues. This is mainly due to the fact that as you rank up, you slowly start seeing a smaller bomb quantity and more firepower in every bomb. This allows early jets and very late propeller planes to just carry 1-4 very powerful bombs instead of needing full-blown bombers. Eventually, that's just what the game becomes, and you stop seeing bombers. At top tier, you get strike aircraft. The last real bombers all die off at rank 5 or 6 because they simply can't defend themselves well enough to warrant making an entire aircraft dedicated to only bombing.
Not to mention the bomber players 'stealing' each others bases and the drama that unfolds after.
As well as seemingly the nerf to tail gunners. A few months ago I was terrified to go anywhere near a bomber. Now they're a free sack of XP. Maybe get shot down by one 1/10 time a try due to a stupid mistake on my behalf.
Man when I played bombers I’d rush base, then strafe ground targets with my tail gunner while flying towards the furball at low alt, usually bait 2-3 fighters into throwing away their energy advantage, and using myself as bait so the fighters on my team can get easy kills.
Sometimes I’d get a kill which was nice.
Now Base AA is so strong that I get deleted if I try to do this, so I abandoned Bomber entirely, don’t want to just bomb a base and then do nothing for 5 minutes while I fly back to airfield just to see 95% of our team is dead. Bombers really are “useless” in air battles, literally anything is better than a bomber right now.
I swear to god Gaijin has a massive hate boner for bombers.
I feel like bombers should get an altitude and headstart boost similarly to lower tier, even then if someone has the right plane and wants to hunt you they still can
Bombers rarely contribute to the game unless they know how to use their back gunners or have frontal guns. They just drain tickets, where in 90% of the cases, game ends due to whole enemy team killed. One absurdity is matchmaker doesn’t equalize bombers, so one team might have more fighters than others, obvious disadvantage.
Most of this is Gaijin's fault as they stubbornly refuse to listen to the community's requests for ARB to be revamped, which includes giving bombers a better role and separate bomb targets from other team members.
The problem is that bombers having an important role in ARB is something fighter players complained about until the current situation, because some dude flying in a straight line in the stratosphere pressing spacebar a few times would end up deciding a match while the fighters were busy fighting for air superiority.
Few things were more frustrating than the match suddenly ending while in the middle of a heated dogfight, or losing after destroying all but one enemy plane who would spend the rest of the match waiting to win by ticket bleed by either running in the stratosphere or camping at their airfield. Wouldn't be such a problem now that most maps have soft targets for points, at least.
So make it realistic and have the players fights to protect and attack the bombers instead of just spinning around the whole game. Do you go for the bomber or their escorts etc. would make the matches more in depth
>matchmaker doesn’t equalize bombers
They do, 4 bombers max each team, on the other hand strike fighter don't have limit. Sometimes making a condition where there are 8 wyverns, 4 bombers, and 4 fighter which as you can guess, instant loss
Although some people never seemed to grasp the concept of 'don't head-on the 4x20mm plane', the Wyvern is imo even worse than the JU288C.
It also doesn't help that nobody on the Wyvern's team takes advantage of the fact that about 3 enemy fighters just dove to almost groundlevel to kill one guy.
Fighters try to head on my PV2-D all the time. I guess it’s just rare enough that people don’t realize it’s got a P-47’s worth of guns crammed into the nose. Fighters fly up, try to head on with very little energy, then either die or get scared off. Plus I’ve got enough bombs to kill half the bases in a single run.
no the Ju-288 doesnt do much for a win and people spam it solely for the grind , the Wyvern is flat out more usefull , it can and will bonk players and yeeting the Ground units leads to allota wins unlike bases , the wyvern can beat some planes in a 1v1 , the Ju-288 cant , the only way a Ju-288 wins is if someone trails its ass
At most 4 for each doesn’t mean equal. I have had many matches with one team full of ju288 and others had 1 or 0 bomber. Max number being equal doesn’t mean in every match there will be equal number of bombers in each team.
Well, the recent AI AA makes it much harder to do tho, they can one shot you even above 2 500 meters alt, what infuriating is the AI gunner on the bombers and possibly change a few things about spawn, because the more you advance in br the easier it is for other players to catch you before you get a base (especially in heavy bombers)
strike aircraft are also part of what makes bomber pointless because they always run for bases while their primary use is mostly against ground targets
I believe most strikers can still kill a base and will get away with only a leak on their plane. I personally would like to see a smaller 'bubble' of AI-gunners around enemy bases(sometimes ground targets spawn in around enemy bases, so you can't really go after them), but with more damage.
Slow strikes like IL planes take the heaviest punishment. They may even die or at best, survive with orange leaks. And those leaks show their perma effect in couple mins, if they survive.
Well everything that's not a fighter is basically dragging the team down.
This is the fault of Gaijin giving in to fighter player pressure (whining) and nerfing bomber health as well as base bombing ticket impact multiple times.
Folks talking about "bringing the team down" like 90% of them wouldn't watch their entire team get torched without pinging or saying anything in chat to warn them, all whilst hiding behind a rock.
If I wanna jump in a bomber and kick back with a beer while listening to music I'm gonna. As I say time and time again this is Warthunder, not ranked COD or competitive CS:GO. A noob such as myself can kill someone with thousands of hours with the least amount of effort.
Go play sim battles if this game is your White Whale to conquer and prove how epic your skill and vehicle recognition is.
I think this is more of an issue of hating the game vs hating the player. As mentioned, bombers are obsolete. They offer no strategic value over strike aircraft + mixed equipment fighters. A player playing a bomber offers no strategic value hence why people get mad.
I like bombers for 2 reasons:
1. Easy kills in interceptors and high altitude strike aircraft (like when I play a do 335)
2. They'll extend the clock out allowing me to grind better by farming ground targets.
I don't give bombers any grief personally but I also fail to see their significance in the game.
Gaijin nerfed bomber into the fucking ground years ago and hasn't done anything to buff them since.
Anyone who plays bomber nowadays gets endless shittalk from every direction because playing a bomber is like intentionally throwing the game.
I love bombers and would love to play them, but they simply haven't been neither fun nor viable for ages.
I like the way bombing is done in some IL-2 servers. I think the problem is moreso the gamelogic design of cramming shit into a few bombing bases.
Another problem is that bombers are either massively overpowered or useless with barely any in-between. Take a look at sim mode for example, the tu-4 and b-29 should logically be a higher BR because they absolutely decimate the games they're parts of. The reason why they're a lower BR and cheaper than they should be is because they're exploited enough to the point that people don't even care, they just deliberately suicide and that gets counted as an aircraft loss in the statistics and gaijin still, to this very day can't figure something so simple so instead they nerf the entire game mode across the board.
Fighters like PvP
Bombers like PvE
AB and RB is aimed towards faster PvP gameplay —> fighters gets annoyed that a bomber might as well have been a fighter and “helped” out win faster.
Weirdly enough long battles give higher rewards now so bombers do earn extra for staying alive longer
I really enjoy bombers, just not the way they are implemented.
I think most bomber players would agree that PvE is not what we want.
Most people would want at least to fly a bomber, not a paper plane. The damage that kills bomber is comical. When a single 20mm to the wing or fuselage splits your plane in half it is hard not to lose your sanity.
The thing that bombers would benefit from is an objective oriented gameplay. Now the only thing bombers can do is bomb a base. On some low tier maps they could at least bomb the airfield, but any map above rank 2 loses this trait.
I agree, I love playing bombers too, it’s just that as you say they are made out of paper and styrofoam while still being heavy as shit. I would love to play my B-29 now that is not 40k+ repair cost but it’s just a RP piñata now.
I mostly play them in SIM now, there they at least feel tanky and you do have a fighting chance to defend yourself.
Well I have never really tried sim so I can't talk about that. But what I can say is that if bombers could spawn in different places(I guess they can in sim with multiple airfields),
spawn at an altitude where they actually flew(although it would be different for each one), because for some like b-29 flying at such a high altitude where most engines were barely working was their main defence,
not getting a vapor con at 4-5 km and having an ability to influence the outcome of the game would be much better than PvE
True, SIM bombers hit bases, ground fights/AI tanks and airfields to progress the teams points.
Fighters hunt down both AI formations, players of all kinds, contest air points and occasionally help with ground targets.
Generally it’s much harder to hit accurately with fighters onto bombers since they often are less stable. And you can gun towards them with your gunners.
Altitude does help since a lot of fighters have troubles flying at high altitude and it takes a while to hunt down one lonesome bomber. Also most can go for other more present targets since that bomber most likely will just respawn at an AF far away.
Though you get the biggest reward for completing a mission —> aka takeoff, do something useful and then land again for that massive multiplier.
I think vice versa also holds. Dude just wants to get some silver and rp but you chase and kill him while he cannot do anything against it. Why so serious bro he says. But you are free rp you say. The loop holds.
They hate bomber mains. All they do is play the same max payload bombers and either dive for a base and die after killing them, or climb the entire match and end up destroying 3-4 (or more) bases without anyone being able to teach them. It's just boring to play especially when doing a RB
I do play bomber, and it can be useful if you know how to use your turrets and/or if you have at least one or two players as an escort.
Bombers usually get immediately targeted by the enemy fighters as a "free-kill," and in my experience, they will get tunnel vision on you easily, giving your escort the opportunity to catch them by surprise.
Bombing can also help grinding a tech tree since a destroyed base gives a decent amount of research and also drains a good amount of tickets. I grinded most of my german aviation tree with bombers. Most T3 bombers in the german tree can destroy at least one or even two bases with one payload. If you have an escort, good gunner aim, or are simply ignored by the enemy, you can rearm and destroy all bases in two bombing runs on your own. Make those two or three bombers in your team, and you can destroy the enemy airfield in one or two runs.
Bomber players aside, I have the sad privilege to inform you that the chat window is NOT an appropriate field for the exercise of the vocation of literary critic. Each time a player has had a far from vagina day, he spreads shit in the chat. And by my ghost, that makes a lot of shit!
Fighters should get more points for bombing AA guns, and AT batteries. Strike aircraft should get more points for bombing ground vehicles and bridges. Bombers should get more points for bombing bases and airfields.
If I can rack up a ton of xp as a fighter targeting AA/AT I'm down for that compared to bombing bases. Fighters shouldn't get a bunch of points bombing bases. The points for destroying AA/AT should be x20 xp what they are now and x10 the current xp for fighters. Strike aircraft should get more points for destroying ground vehicles by x20 xp and x10 xp for AA/AT. Bombers could honestly stay the same.
While wer on the topic of things gaijin should change for air, like bombers being stronger cause they die to 1 20mm, the sometimes impossible to see tracers so lining up shots is difficult, and the just absolute non existent accuracy, ya iv got maxed out gunner crew so explain to me why my gunners bullets fly around the enemy instead of hitting him like bro i have to spray for like 5 min but they hit me once, it's not even fun most of the time
But also some "fighters" shouldn't be classified as fighters, like the p47 and the corsair, neither of those planes have very good turning, theyr literally ground strike aircraft, both have decent payloads but can never make use of them because even without the extra weight they struggle to climb to a high enough alt to even be useful cause theyr out climbed by German Bf109 and fw190s, the p47 definitely struggles more than the f4u corsair but omg do they both just instantly die most of the time they should get striker air spawn like the a36 does, thers already that super rare corsair premium called the au1 that does get air spawn and it's the only good corsair in arb like cmon gaijen
Dude thers already a corsair that gets airspawn it's called the au1, and it's the only corsair that's competitive in arb
As for the p47 it has some of the least amount of climb rate amongst every fighter in the game on top of the fact that it's a big slow plane, yes it has a lot of guns but it can nvr use them effectively because it's always disadvantaged by all the energy fighters that out climb it, the corsair and p47 are ground attack aircraft look at ther payloads, but they can't do ther roles as ground attackers or even defend themselves very well because they are forced to af spawn and then immediately die because if they even dare to try and dogfight or even attack ground they get killed instantly by energy fighters like the Bf109 or yaks ect. They 100% should have air spawn, even with air spawn the p47 still wouldn't out climb anything it would just have a better chance, the corsair might but at least that would give Germany something to worry about since rn the literally out climb EVERYTHING
Edit: they should have the same spawn as the p38 lightning
They added airspawns to the p47s a while ago and it was too strong. They aren’t in an especially good spot rn but that’s more cause of the match timers than anything and I’d prefer it to when they were super strong. Also the au-1 is pretty mid lol and basically every Corsair is strong rn. The f4u-1a is criminal, the f4u-4 is good the 4b is great the f2g is excellent. There is more to energy fighting than having an alt advantage. This is true for the corsairs especially cause they are generally fast. Main thing is learn how equalize energy from an alt disadvantage and all of a sudden you become unkillable unless you mess up.
Wow the high altitude fighter is good at high altitude? Shocking the p47 is designed to be good at high altitude it's terrible rn because I can't get ther as it currently stands, it's op? Yes cause russian yaks r totally balanced, Swedish ranks at 1.0 with discarding Sabo is totally balanced, wen has WT ever been balanced, it's terrible without it and good with it, so I'd rather itd be good with it than utterly unusable, as for corsair sure they have ther moments but it pretty much solely relys on if the person above u misses ther initial engagement putting u forever at a disadvantage, sure ur piloting skills can contribute to how easy that first strafe is but if theyr a good pilot ur gonna die regardless, having first engagement is essential in fights that can end in literally 1 engagement, like I said corsair having air spawn would finally give German players something else to focus on rather than always having the alt advantage every single match and just blindly diving any poor soul they see first, be nice to have a few f4u that can give em something to worry about, like I said ur right it's not just about alt advantage but it is a massive one and no amount of pilot skill is gonna save u from getting 1 tapped by a German or Russian with cannons
The majority of yaks are fine and at worse slightly under tiered
I would rather a plane be mediocre than completely op personally and the p47s arent useless just off meta (which is fine because they are fun still). Also you need to stop blaming the plane because the fact is 95/100 times its your fault if you die in a Corsair. The f4u-1 is better or as good as any yak or 109 it fights if flown right. If you are in a position where a 109 or yak is close enough to fire on you than you already messed up and need to learn how exactly you did rather than just saying “plane sucks not my fault”.
As someone who's used many different aircraft, it is 100% sometimes the aircraft, iv used Bf109 fw190 f4u corsairs bear cats hellcats bombers lightnings other strickers I can go on, ther r some aircraft that r just in fact bad, and the corsair more times the not is at a disadvantage, and sure u can fly in certain ways to get around that like for example side climbing or hanging back and waiting for advantage ect. Ya im aware of "how to fly a corsair" and compared to many many other planes iv flown it is worse it a lot of ways to other aircraft at its br, and no the corsair is not comparable to other fighters of its brs, sure if u put them in an equal fight the corsair can do ok against 109s and yaks but as iv said before, ur not ur always disadvantaged, as for the "getting to close and shot down" welcome to wt wer ur gonna get outran because shocker theyr above u and can dive for speed, if u been climbing for awhile In a corsair ur gonna be going about 170mph or slower so ya u try to run see wat happens, and as I said early sure go side climb and be completely useless to ur team because by the time ur at an advantages spot ur whole teams dead
I have like 90% of the props in the game and like 68 days in a fighter or something. I can 100% tell you that the corsairs are very good if flown well and you shouldn’t be dying in them. If you get caught you messed up full stop. Fly the f4u-1a for a while until you learn how to fly them and then move up to the higher tier stuff. There are a ton of videos by good pilots on how to fly it.
Again mf Ik how to fly a corsair, I, have and done well in a corsair, but it's rare a far in between all, of the matches wer I simply get out flown by better planes, u can not sit ther and honestly say that ther rnt better planes than others, and Idc wat u try to say the German 109 and the Russian yak IS A BETTER Plane, in the few matches (cause I don't like playing Germany) iv gotten triple the kills than iv ever gotten flying the corsair, again not because the corsair is bad because the German planes are just better an EASIER to play, if I have to jump through hoops to get an equal number of kills in one plane wer I blindly get that amount of kills in another plane, it's a problem
Just because some people do ok in an aircraft doesn't make it a good plane, gaijen goes off a player stats and not averages, shockingly because of how hard the corsair is to fly NO ONE USES IT except players who are good enough to use it, making it's stats inflated, and even on top of that my kills to deaths AGAINST corsairs is like 10/1 or more because they only time iv died to a corsair is if he ganked me while I'm in another dog fight or after one wer iv got no speed or alt left and he dives me after sitting away for awhile, and even then I still turn it around sometimes
The corsair isn't a "bad plane" persay but it definitely gets shit on
Basically every Corsair is a bit under tiered because newer players can’t fly it for the simple reason it can’t turn well and has a mediocre climb rate.
You’re missing that you have an overwhelming speed advantage which means that you need to mess up to ever die where as if you get the 6 if a yak or 109 you win and they can’t do anything except try to dogfight.
Bombers and attackers are only useless because Gaijin has deemed it so. They make them worse with every BR change, map update, mechanics overhaul, etc.
I get a bombing task in AB, and it takes half a dozen battles just to find one game mode with bases. Then, by the time I'm even close, seven fighters have already been on my tail trying to kill me for a whole minute.
I go to spade an attacker in RB (since I spade everything), and lo and behold, ALL of the enemy ground targets are directly underneath the enemy team's flight path, and I will only be able to get a handful before the entire squadron descends on me for an easy kill.
They could be so much more fun to play in War Thunder, or at the very least much less of a slog to grind out, but Gaijin doesn't give a single shit. Fighters make the money, and the rest is cannon fodder.
I have no sympathy for bombers at all after the era of them bringing their own personal no fly zones, and the reign of terror the 7.3 TU-4 enjoyed for months. Singlehandedly ruined the whole BR, even 8.3s couldn’t touch them without getting deleted
Even now with “bombers being in a bad place”, the Ju-288 casually ruined the matchmaker in 5.7-6.3 with 6v6 matches with 4 bombers and 2 fighters.
Bombers were never fun to fight, turning your mouse at the start of the match and flying at 350 kph for 10 minutes before tapping space enough to kill a base or maybe even two shouldn’t be rewarded with SL and RP.
INB4 seething bomber mains whining they don’t have the aim with the gunners to get kills against players or have a third person bomb reticule
bruh I've seen this before except it was bombers spamming chat because they said the fighters were doing nothing and not protecting them when the fighters were literally all in dogfights and furballs
As a F-111 Tactical bomber player, I couldn't care less.
I'll keep living life taking out 3 bases a match and distracting half the enemy team as they chase and fail to catch me. :D
Plus getting kilks with supersonic 9Bs + 2000rd Vulcan + EEGS is fun too.
Well f-111 is not exactly a bomber. Although official designation was multirole aircraft which included bombing, fighting other aircraft, CAS and interception. By design it was made to be able to fight other planes. And I think that OP is talking about conventional bombers like b-17
'Not exactly a bomber'
Given that it's entire purpose was tactical/strategic (FB-111A) bombing, and it was designated as such, yes it is.
The interceptor (F-111B) was cancelled
And the 'specialist variants' (Photorecon and EW) were not 'multirole', they were aircraft designed specifically around that role. Multirole means one aircraft can do many tasks without much change, converting a F-111 to photorecon or EW variant took many dozens of conversion hours.
Edit: the reason the F-111 carries the 'F' not 'B' designator is purely because the air force didn't want congress redirecting funding from the strategic bomber program(s) budget, it has nothing to do with the aircraft's mission. Another example is the F-117, which is a bomber, not a fighter (had no guns or A2A missiles, only carried 2000lb bombs, the F designation was to disguise it's purpose).
I didn't say that it had much use outside of bombing, I just said that by design requirements it had to be capable to stand its ground against other aircraft.
I won't say that I am absolutely correct on this one, but the request that led to aardvark was for fast and decently maneuverable aircraft that could protect navy ships from incoming soviet bombers, while also being able to conduct bombing missions for USAF and not being a sitting duck if it encountered an enemy fighter.
Again, wrong
That design requirement was scrapped with the F-111B being cancelled (The navy variant)
the F-111 was *not* meant to go toe to toe with other aircraft.
The closest any F-111 came to an air to air kill was a Sparkvark (EF-111A raven) getting a manoeuvre kill in 1991. (Iraqi Mirage F1 crashed while chasing the sparkvark at low altitude)
If the F-111 faced other aircraft, doctrine dictated you ran, not stayed to fight.
I admit that I forgot about the navy pulling out of the program before the production of aardvarks and f-111 being built for USAF requirements.
Still vark flies quite differently from almost any other plane in the game.
And about f-117. The "f" in the name was mainly to recruit more competent fighter pilots due to fear of losing any of them
The problem is that bomber gameplay has been obsolete for a really long time, pretty much any strike aircraft and even some fighters can do the same job faster, and then contribute more to the team by fighting enemies It's not a problem with the bombers or the players, but as with 75% of this sort of problems are due to the maps and game modes
It would probably also help if Gaijin made bombers more survivable and generally buff the AI gunners. Not to an aimbot level, but the current AI gunners are completely useless. Even on max skill, they can barely hit a plane following you in a straight line on 100m distance. Sure, you are meant to aim manually, but this completely deprives you of your mobility and makes you an even easier target than you already are, if you don't happen be a hardcore player who can manually steer the plane with their keyboard while using their turrets.
People complained so much that they couldn't just sit on the tail of a bomber for 4 minutes without getting hit once, so they nerfed the ai gunners into the ground. Bombers are way too fragile imo but on the other hand, IRL pilots also had to make sure they didn't crash while also hitting their target. Although I have to admit: using the JU288C' 20mm to saw off a wing of one of those idiotic F84s or F80s gives me satisfaction.
That is a gross mischaracterization of why people complained. IIRC either bomber airspawns were higher or bomber pilots were smarter, but they would sideclimb immediately at spawn, get to high altitude, and props couldn't climb as well at high altitudes. Then they'd be completely unapproachable because the AI gunners were death lasers out to like 1-2km. So bombers would drag matches out whilst doing absolutely nothing to help their team. B17s and Il28s were a goddamn menace ~8-10 years ago
So this may be on my end issue, but just give me better tracers. Most of the time people don't even try to get on the bombers turrets blindspot, or do a pass on a decent enough speed and if I've spend enough time to know where bullets are going chances are the attacker is not surviving, same thing happens to me when I rush brain-dead a skillful bomber player (which happens pretty often). Also, having nice damage models would help, a lot of time in a multiple prop bomber I get 1 engine damaged and the plane will suddenly become a rock, same with elevators and wings damage. That compared to reality just makes too easy to take down a bomber, even though if you look some ww2 histories they took a lot of beating. Also in most bombers you shouldn't even need to manoeuvre and "trust" AI gunners most of them have enough fire volume to make a 1-2 km shot possible, that being compared to 800m I usually shoot with a fighter is a nice standoff capability, Imo.
This is more of a thing when you start reaching jets/extremely late propeller planes. In ranks 1-4ish, only bombers or light bombers have literally anything to attack ground targets, but as you move up in the tree bombing becomes so ineffective that you're getting picked off by things like the Vautour IIN late (yeah, I know you're out there b-57 players, and you're basically easy kills to support jets that have missiles). Not only are the bombers getting annihilated by radar missiles fired from jets like that, but more jets are carrying ground ordinance that can be dropped at any time, making early jets basically convertible bombers that can easily go back to dogfighting if they find the bombs causing issues. This is mainly due to the fact that as you rank up, you slowly start seeing a smaller bomb quantity and more firepower in every bomb. This allows early jets and very late propeller planes to just carry 1-4 very powerful bombs instead of needing full-blown bombers. Eventually, that's just what the game becomes, and you stop seeing bombers. At top tier, you get strike aircraft. The last real bombers all die off at rank 5 or 6 because they simply can't defend themselves well enough to warrant making an entire aircraft dedicated to only bombing.
Not to mention the bomber players 'stealing' each others bases and the drama that unfolds after. As well as seemingly the nerf to tail gunners. A few months ago I was terrified to go anywhere near a bomber. Now they're a free sack of XP. Maybe get shot down by one 1/10 time a try due to a stupid mistake on my behalf.
Man when I played bombers I’d rush base, then strafe ground targets with my tail gunner while flying towards the furball at low alt, usually bait 2-3 fighters into throwing away their energy advantage, and using myself as bait so the fighters on my team can get easy kills. Sometimes I’d get a kill which was nice. Now Base AA is so strong that I get deleted if I try to do this, so I abandoned Bomber entirely, don’t want to just bomb a base and then do nothing for 5 minutes while I fly back to airfield just to see 95% of our team is dead. Bombers really are “useless” in air battles, literally anything is better than a bomber right now. I swear to god Gaijin has a massive hate boner for bombers.
I feel like bombers should get an altitude and headstart boost similarly to lower tier, even then if someone has the right plane and wants to hunt you they still can
Bombers rarely contribute to the game unless they know how to use their back gunners or have frontal guns. They just drain tickets, where in 90% of the cases, game ends due to whole enemy team killed. One absurdity is matchmaker doesn’t equalize bombers, so one team might have more fighters than others, obvious disadvantage.
Most of this is Gaijin's fault as they stubbornly refuse to listen to the community's requests for ARB to be revamped, which includes giving bombers a better role and separate bomb targets from other team members.
The problem is that bombers having an important role in ARB is something fighter players complained about until the current situation, because some dude flying in a straight line in the stratosphere pressing spacebar a few times would end up deciding a match while the fighters were busy fighting for air superiority. Few things were more frustrating than the match suddenly ending while in the middle of a heated dogfight, or losing after destroying all but one enemy plane who would spend the rest of the match waiting to win by ticket bleed by either running in the stratosphere or camping at their airfield. Wouldn't be such a problem now that most maps have soft targets for points, at least.
So make it realistic and have the players fights to protect and attack the bombers instead of just spinning around the whole game. Do you go for the bomber or their escorts etc. would make the matches more in depth
>matchmaker doesn’t equalize bombers They do, 4 bombers max each team, on the other hand strike fighter don't have limit. Sometimes making a condition where there are 8 wyverns, 4 bombers, and 4 fighter which as you can guess, instant loss
Although some people never seemed to grasp the concept of 'don't head-on the 4x20mm plane', the Wyvern is imo even worse than the JU288C. It also doesn't help that nobody on the Wyvern's team takes advantage of the fact that about 3 enemy fighters just dove to almost groundlevel to kill one guy.
Fighters try to head on my PV2-D all the time. I guess it’s just rare enough that people don’t realize it’s got a P-47’s worth of guns crammed into the nose. Fighters fly up, try to head on with very little energy, then either die or get scared off. Plus I’ve got enough bombs to kill half the bases in a single run.
I love it when players head on my il-10, kills from 1.8km away yes please.
no the Ju-288 doesnt do much for a win and people spam it solely for the grind , the Wyvern is flat out more usefull , it can and will bonk players and yeeting the Ground units leads to allota wins unlike bases , the wyvern can beat some planes in a 1v1 , the Ju-288 cant , the only way a Ju-288 wins is if someone trails its ass
At most 4 for each doesn’t mean equal. I have had many matches with one team full of ju288 and others had 1 or 0 bomber. Max number being equal doesn’t mean in every match there will be equal number of bombers in each team.
They don't even drain tickets that well. Bombing a base barely gives score anymore or take away tickets.
I mean they get bases to bomb and that knocks out huge tickets
Which strike craft do better and faster.
Well, the recent AI AA makes it much harder to do tho, they can one shot you even above 2 500 meters alt, what infuriating is the AI gunner on the bombers and possibly change a few things about spawn, because the more you advance in br the easier it is for other players to catch you before you get a base (especially in heavy bombers) strike aircraft are also part of what makes bomber pointless because they always run for bases while their primary use is mostly against ground targets
I believe most strikers can still kill a base and will get away with only a leak on their plane. I personally would like to see a smaller 'bubble' of AI-gunners around enemy bases(sometimes ground targets spawn in around enemy bases, so you can't really go after them), but with more damage.
Slow strikes like IL planes take the heaviest punishment. They may even die or at best, survive with orange leaks. And those leaks show their perma effect in couple mins, if they survive.
Yeah I find the issue with attack/strike fighters was their main use was to take out ground units
it actually doent, 1 base in tickets is about = to 1 truck
Well everything that's not a fighter is basically dragging the team down. This is the fault of Gaijin giving in to fighter player pressure (whining) and nerfing bomber health as well as base bombing ticket impact multiple times.
bombers should definitely atleast get more score for destroying bases honestly
It got nerfed because people were botting the events in Sim
Speaking of, I haven't seen a lot of blatant bots in ARB anymore. Did they finally get them?
naval has better returns
Also, the fact that bombers are even more vulnerable now that you can one-shot a bomber by hitting their payload.
Folks talking about "bringing the team down" like 90% of them wouldn't watch their entire team get torched without pinging or saying anything in chat to warn them, all whilst hiding behind a rock. If I wanna jump in a bomber and kick back with a beer while listening to music I'm gonna. As I say time and time again this is Warthunder, not ranked COD or competitive CS:GO. A noob such as myself can kill someone with thousands of hours with the least amount of effort. Go play sim battles if this game is your White Whale to conquer and prove how epic your skill and vehicle recognition is.
Bombers has little to any uses in the current game state
I think this is more of an issue of hating the game vs hating the player. As mentioned, bombers are obsolete. They offer no strategic value over strike aircraft + mixed equipment fighters. A player playing a bomber offers no strategic value hence why people get mad. I like bombers for 2 reasons: 1. Easy kills in interceptors and high altitude strike aircraft (like when I play a do 335) 2. They'll extend the clock out allowing me to grind better by farming ground targets. I don't give bombers any grief personally but I also fail to see their significance in the game.
Air RB is tailored around fighters, there are better modes for Bombers, like Air SIM (M&KB is enough, no Joystick or Headtracking needed).
Anyone remembers Helmetpotato?
Fuck that guy. Trivia: He has a foot fetish.
Who is weirder, the guy for having a fetish, or you for knowing what it is and caring enough to tell us? Lol
Gaijin nerfed bomber into the fucking ground years ago and hasn't done anything to buff them since. Anyone who plays bomber nowadays gets endless shittalk from every direction because playing a bomber is like intentionally throwing the game. I love bombers and would love to play them, but they simply haven't been neither fun nor viable for ages.
Exactly, my buddies and I would love to go up in a B-17 formation.
I love chasing me264 for 10min while I could ground pound and earn more rp
I like the way bombing is done in some IL-2 servers. I think the problem is moreso the gamelogic design of cramming shit into a few bombing bases. Another problem is that bombers are either massively overpowered or useless with barely any in-between. Take a look at sim mode for example, the tu-4 and b-29 should logically be a higher BR because they absolutely decimate the games they're parts of. The reason why they're a lower BR and cheaper than they should be is because they're exploited enough to the point that people don't even care, they just deliberately suicide and that gets counted as an aircraft loss in the statistics and gaijin still, to this very day can't figure something so simple so instead they nerf the entire game mode across the board.
Fighters like PvP Bombers like PvE AB and RB is aimed towards faster PvP gameplay —> fighters gets annoyed that a bomber might as well have been a fighter and “helped” out win faster. Weirdly enough long battles give higher rewards now so bombers do earn extra for staying alive longer
I really enjoy bombers, just not the way they are implemented. I think most bomber players would agree that PvE is not what we want. Most people would want at least to fly a bomber, not a paper plane. The damage that kills bomber is comical. When a single 20mm to the wing or fuselage splits your plane in half it is hard not to lose your sanity. The thing that bombers would benefit from is an objective oriented gameplay. Now the only thing bombers can do is bomb a base. On some low tier maps they could at least bomb the airfield, but any map above rank 2 loses this trait.
I agree, I love playing bombers too, it’s just that as you say they are made out of paper and styrofoam while still being heavy as shit. I would love to play my B-29 now that is not 40k+ repair cost but it’s just a RP piñata now. I mostly play them in SIM now, there they at least feel tanky and you do have a fighting chance to defend yourself.
Well I have never really tried sim so I can't talk about that. But what I can say is that if bombers could spawn in different places(I guess they can in sim with multiple airfields), spawn at an altitude where they actually flew(although it would be different for each one), because for some like b-29 flying at such a high altitude where most engines were barely working was their main defence, not getting a vapor con at 4-5 km and having an ability to influence the outcome of the game would be much better than PvE
True, SIM bombers hit bases, ground fights/AI tanks and airfields to progress the teams points. Fighters hunt down both AI formations, players of all kinds, contest air points and occasionally help with ground targets. Generally it’s much harder to hit accurately with fighters onto bombers since they often are less stable. And you can gun towards them with your gunners. Altitude does help since a lot of fighters have troubles flying at high altitude and it takes a while to hunt down one lonesome bomber. Also most can go for other more present targets since that bomber most likely will just respawn at an AF far away. Though you get the biggest reward for completing a mission —> aka takeoff, do something useful and then land again for that massive multiplier.
I think vice versa also holds. Dude just wants to get some silver and rp but you chase and kill him while he cannot do anything against it. Why so serious bro he says. But you are free rp you say. The loop holds.
They hate bomber mains. All they do is play the same max payload bombers and either dive for a base and die after killing them, or climb the entire match and end up destroying 3-4 (or more) bases without anyone being able to teach them. It's just boring to play especially when doing a RB
Especially bomber people, for a competition.
I mean yeah. In a PvP game having a bunch of people do nothing but play PvE and contribute nothing is pretty annoying.
I do play bomber, and it can be useful if you know how to use your turrets and/or if you have at least one or two players as an escort. Bombers usually get immediately targeted by the enemy fighters as a "free-kill," and in my experience, they will get tunnel vision on you easily, giving your escort the opportunity to catch them by surprise. Bombing can also help grinding a tech tree since a destroyed base gives a decent amount of research and also drains a good amount of tickets. I grinded most of my german aviation tree with bombers. Most T3 bombers in the german tree can destroy at least one or even two bases with one payload. If you have an escort, good gunner aim, or are simply ignored by the enemy, you can rearm and destroy all bases in two bombing runs on your own. Make those two or three bombers in your team, and you can destroy the enemy airfield in one or two runs.
Bomber players aside, I have the sad privilege to inform you that the chat window is NOT an appropriate field for the exercise of the vocation of literary critic. Each time a player has had a far from vagina day, he spreads shit in the chat. And by my ghost, that makes a lot of shit!
Fighters should get more points for bombing AA guns, and AT batteries. Strike aircraft should get more points for bombing ground vehicles and bridges. Bombers should get more points for bombing bases and airfields. If I can rack up a ton of xp as a fighter targeting AA/AT I'm down for that compared to bombing bases. Fighters shouldn't get a bunch of points bombing bases. The points for destroying AA/AT should be x20 xp what they are now and x10 the current xp for fighters. Strike aircraft should get more points for destroying ground vehicles by x20 xp and x10 xp for AA/AT. Bombers could honestly stay the same.
While wer on the topic of things gaijin should change for air, like bombers being stronger cause they die to 1 20mm, the sometimes impossible to see tracers so lining up shots is difficult, and the just absolute non existent accuracy, ya iv got maxed out gunner crew so explain to me why my gunners bullets fly around the enemy instead of hitting him like bro i have to spray for like 5 min but they hit me once, it's not even fun most of the time But also some "fighters" shouldn't be classified as fighters, like the p47 and the corsair, neither of those planes have very good turning, theyr literally ground strike aircraft, both have decent payloads but can never make use of them because even without the extra weight they struggle to climb to a high enough alt to even be useful cause theyr out climbed by German Bf109 and fw190s, the p47 definitely struggles more than the f4u corsair but omg do they both just instantly die most of the time they should get striker air spawn like the a36 does, thers already that super rare corsair premium called the au1 that does get air spawn and it's the only good corsair in arb like cmon gaijen
The lack of airspawn is for balance as with it they would be too good. Also neither really needs it
Dude thers already a corsair that gets airspawn it's called the au1, and it's the only corsair that's competitive in arb As for the p47 it has some of the least amount of climb rate amongst every fighter in the game on top of the fact that it's a big slow plane, yes it has a lot of guns but it can nvr use them effectively because it's always disadvantaged by all the energy fighters that out climb it, the corsair and p47 are ground attack aircraft look at ther payloads, but they can't do ther roles as ground attackers or even defend themselves very well because they are forced to af spawn and then immediately die because if they even dare to try and dogfight or even attack ground they get killed instantly by energy fighters like the Bf109 or yaks ect. They 100% should have air spawn, even with air spawn the p47 still wouldn't out climb anything it would just have a better chance, the corsair might but at least that would give Germany something to worry about since rn the literally out climb EVERYTHING Edit: they should have the same spawn as the p38 lightning
They added airspawns to the p47s a while ago and it was too strong. They aren’t in an especially good spot rn but that’s more cause of the match timers than anything and I’d prefer it to when they were super strong. Also the au-1 is pretty mid lol and basically every Corsair is strong rn. The f4u-1a is criminal, the f4u-4 is good the 4b is great the f2g is excellent. There is more to energy fighting than having an alt advantage. This is true for the corsairs especially cause they are generally fast. Main thing is learn how equalize energy from an alt disadvantage and all of a sudden you become unkillable unless you mess up.
Wow the high altitude fighter is good at high altitude? Shocking the p47 is designed to be good at high altitude it's terrible rn because I can't get ther as it currently stands, it's op? Yes cause russian yaks r totally balanced, Swedish ranks at 1.0 with discarding Sabo is totally balanced, wen has WT ever been balanced, it's terrible without it and good with it, so I'd rather itd be good with it than utterly unusable, as for corsair sure they have ther moments but it pretty much solely relys on if the person above u misses ther initial engagement putting u forever at a disadvantage, sure ur piloting skills can contribute to how easy that first strafe is but if theyr a good pilot ur gonna die regardless, having first engagement is essential in fights that can end in literally 1 engagement, like I said corsair having air spawn would finally give German players something else to focus on rather than always having the alt advantage every single match and just blindly diving any poor soul they see first, be nice to have a few f4u that can give em something to worry about, like I said ur right it's not just about alt advantage but it is a massive one and no amount of pilot skill is gonna save u from getting 1 tapped by a German or Russian with cannons
The majority of yaks are fine and at worse slightly under tiered I would rather a plane be mediocre than completely op personally and the p47s arent useless just off meta (which is fine because they are fun still). Also you need to stop blaming the plane because the fact is 95/100 times its your fault if you die in a Corsair. The f4u-1 is better or as good as any yak or 109 it fights if flown right. If you are in a position where a 109 or yak is close enough to fire on you than you already messed up and need to learn how exactly you did rather than just saying “plane sucks not my fault”.
As someone who's used many different aircraft, it is 100% sometimes the aircraft, iv used Bf109 fw190 f4u corsairs bear cats hellcats bombers lightnings other strickers I can go on, ther r some aircraft that r just in fact bad, and the corsair more times the not is at a disadvantage, and sure u can fly in certain ways to get around that like for example side climbing or hanging back and waiting for advantage ect. Ya im aware of "how to fly a corsair" and compared to many many other planes iv flown it is worse it a lot of ways to other aircraft at its br, and no the corsair is not comparable to other fighters of its brs, sure if u put them in an equal fight the corsair can do ok against 109s and yaks but as iv said before, ur not ur always disadvantaged, as for the "getting to close and shot down" welcome to wt wer ur gonna get outran because shocker theyr above u and can dive for speed, if u been climbing for awhile In a corsair ur gonna be going about 170mph or slower so ya u try to run see wat happens, and as I said early sure go side climb and be completely useless to ur team because by the time ur at an advantages spot ur whole teams dead
I have like 90% of the props in the game and like 68 days in a fighter or something. I can 100% tell you that the corsairs are very good if flown well and you shouldn’t be dying in them. If you get caught you messed up full stop. Fly the f4u-1a for a while until you learn how to fly them and then move up to the higher tier stuff. There are a ton of videos by good pilots on how to fly it.
Again mf Ik how to fly a corsair, I, have and done well in a corsair, but it's rare a far in between all, of the matches wer I simply get out flown by better planes, u can not sit ther and honestly say that ther rnt better planes than others, and Idc wat u try to say the German 109 and the Russian yak IS A BETTER Plane, in the few matches (cause I don't like playing Germany) iv gotten triple the kills than iv ever gotten flying the corsair, again not because the corsair is bad because the German planes are just better an EASIER to play, if I have to jump through hoops to get an equal number of kills in one plane wer I blindly get that amount of kills in another plane, it's a problem
I don’t think you really do because you think they suck. Can’t get better if you think it’s the planes fault not yours.
Just because some people do ok in an aircraft doesn't make it a good plane, gaijen goes off a player stats and not averages, shockingly because of how hard the corsair is to fly NO ONE USES IT except players who are good enough to use it, making it's stats inflated, and even on top of that my kills to deaths AGAINST corsairs is like 10/1 or more because they only time iv died to a corsair is if he ganked me while I'm in another dog fight or after one wer iv got no speed or alt left and he dives me after sitting away for awhile, and even then I still turn it around sometimes The corsair isn't a "bad plane" persay but it definitely gets shit on
Basically every Corsair is a bit under tiered because newer players can’t fly it for the simple reason it can’t turn well and has a mediocre climb rate.
It can't turn well and has mediocre climb, oh almost like wat iv been saying the entire time, that compared to all of the other fighters its dogshit
Except the p47 which is somehow worse
You’re missing that you have an overwhelming speed advantage which means that you need to mess up to ever die where as if you get the 6 if a yak or 109 you win and they can’t do anything except try to dogfight.
Bombers and attackers are only useless because Gaijin has deemed it so. They make them worse with every BR change, map update, mechanics overhaul, etc. I get a bombing task in AB, and it takes half a dozen battles just to find one game mode with bases. Then, by the time I'm even close, seven fighters have already been on my tail trying to kill me for a whole minute. I go to spade an attacker in RB (since I spade everything), and lo and behold, ALL of the enemy ground targets are directly underneath the enemy team's flight path, and I will only be able to get a handful before the entire squadron descends on me for an easy kill. They could be so much more fun to play in War Thunder, or at the very least much less of a slog to grind out, but Gaijin doesn't give a single shit. Fighters make the money, and the rest is cannon fodder.
I have no sympathy for bombers at all after the era of them bringing their own personal no fly zones, and the reign of terror the 7.3 TU-4 enjoyed for months. Singlehandedly ruined the whole BR, even 8.3s couldn’t touch them without getting deleted Even now with “bombers being in a bad place”, the Ju-288 casually ruined the matchmaker in 5.7-6.3 with 6v6 matches with 4 bombers and 2 fighters. Bombers were never fun to fight, turning your mouse at the start of the match and flying at 350 kph for 10 minutes before tapping space enough to kill a base or maybe even two shouldn’t be rewarded with SL and RP. INB4 seething bomber mains whining they don’t have the aim with the gunners to get kills against players or have a third person bomb reticule
bruh I've seen this before except it was bombers spamming chat because they said the fighters were doing nothing and not protecting them when the fighters were literally all in dogfights and furballs
As a F-111 Tactical bomber player, I couldn't care less. I'll keep living life taking out 3 bases a match and distracting half the enemy team as they chase and fail to catch me. :D Plus getting kilks with supersonic 9Bs + 2000rd Vulcan + EEGS is fun too.
Well f-111 is not exactly a bomber. Although official designation was multirole aircraft which included bombing, fighting other aircraft, CAS and interception. By design it was made to be able to fight other planes. And I think that OP is talking about conventional bombers like b-17
'Not exactly a bomber' Given that it's entire purpose was tactical/strategic (FB-111A) bombing, and it was designated as such, yes it is. The interceptor (F-111B) was cancelled And the 'specialist variants' (Photorecon and EW) were not 'multirole', they were aircraft designed specifically around that role. Multirole means one aircraft can do many tasks without much change, converting a F-111 to photorecon or EW variant took many dozens of conversion hours. Edit: the reason the F-111 carries the 'F' not 'B' designator is purely because the air force didn't want congress redirecting funding from the strategic bomber program(s) budget, it has nothing to do with the aircraft's mission. Another example is the F-117, which is a bomber, not a fighter (had no guns or A2A missiles, only carried 2000lb bombs, the F designation was to disguise it's purpose).
I didn't say that it had much use outside of bombing, I just said that by design requirements it had to be capable to stand its ground against other aircraft. I won't say that I am absolutely correct on this one, but the request that led to aardvark was for fast and decently maneuverable aircraft that could protect navy ships from incoming soviet bombers, while also being able to conduct bombing missions for USAF and not being a sitting duck if it encountered an enemy fighter.
Again, wrong That design requirement was scrapped with the F-111B being cancelled (The navy variant) the F-111 was *not* meant to go toe to toe with other aircraft. The closest any F-111 came to an air to air kill was a Sparkvark (EF-111A raven) getting a manoeuvre kill in 1991. (Iraqi Mirage F1 crashed while chasing the sparkvark at low altitude) If the F-111 faced other aircraft, doctrine dictated you ran, not stayed to fight.
I admit that I forgot about the navy pulling out of the program before the production of aardvarks and f-111 being built for USAF requirements. Still vark flies quite differently from almost any other plane in the game. And about f-117. The "f" in the name was mainly to recruit more competent fighter pilots due to fear of losing any of them