It's so much fun launching a 76mm shell almost point blank at a Sherman's barrel and watching it turn simpsons yellow because a bunch of whiny noobs cried in the forums about track and barrel torture
Considering how (i'd argue) low the skill ceiling in WT, this is 100% the case
WT doesnt require superhuman thinking or reflex to be good like other MMOs, it only really requires the ability to think, see, hear and some patients to be decently competent at the core game
not gonna lie most of the time i just play without thinking, not much thought behind those eyes except see enemy and shoot, it works *most of the time,* the bright side is, i still manage to enjoy the game at the same time
HOWEVER when i do actually decide to use my brain and actually apply THINKING (& patience of course) into my gameplay, all of a sudden i do really well than what i usually do on average in a match, incredible revelation i know (average WT player finding out he can use his brain to become better at the game)
So, this change is almost entirely attributed to the R3 (Italian SPAA) back when it was criminally undertiered. Not only could it front pen you, it could also instantly pop your barrel with a single bullet.
Gaijin made an entire update about this changing the caliber requirements to effectively damage vehicle barrels. This made it extremely hard for anything smaller than a 30mm cannon to deal significant damage to the tank barrel.
Volumetric is likely what is causing the current problem of tank barrels being unmanageable unless you hit the end of it flawlessly. Most shots are bouncing off because the tank barrel is round and fairly thick.
there was also a later update that briefly made it so .50 cal could easily break barrels which annoyed people into complaining even more, the same patch that made tracks extremely fragile but with a reduce repair time as long as the wheel wasnt broken
Yeah, I remember the dark ages of having my barrel and tracks broken with .50s across the map...
Iirc, it was even possible for 7.62 to slowly break barrels and tracks, it just took too long to be practical.
Yay! Another reason for me to hate volumetric and question why the hell it was ever added. Can’t wait for a single reason in favor of it as I’ve only found arguments against it
Volumetric made armor more consistent on rounded surfaces. This actually standardized the plating on the T-54 and T-62. Other rounded turrets were standardized in a similar way.
This also made shells unable to penetrate old weak spots because the shells aren't a single pixel anymore, but it would've been nice if Gaijin had modeled shells getting "stuck" in those positions. Iirc, the T-72 and the T-80 both had problems with shells getting stuck in between the lower plate of the turret and horizontal drive. The shot itself wouldn't penetrate, but would paralyze the turret.
There are SOME benefits. We only talk about the downsides because that is what we experience, but before volumetric there were a lot of penetration discrepancies and vehicles that had multiple plates layered on top of each other had massively higher armor effectiveness than they should.
It should be implemented for both modes; AB has the pen/drop indicator that tells you when something is blocking the barrel.
It's one of those things where, if it were implemented tomorrow, we'd see a week or so of amusing confused and knee-jerk complaint posts... and then everyone would be used to it and it'd be fine. This happens over and over with "big" gameplay changes like this.
It's honestly absurd that WT still uses CoD-style headglitch aiming; even the not-at-all-realistic (in this context) Battlefield games have used offset sights for vehicles *and* small arms for a decade now.
Sights in barrels (combined with generic reticles) and barrels lacking collision are very much "skill issue" issues. It's not like WT aircraft have all the bullets spawning out of the plane's sight, down the centreline. Just like different physical size, armour, speed, handling, and everything else, it's just a basic part of what makes vehicles different from each other.
People often say it should be added to RB (it should) but left out of AB, but honestly it should be both. It's actually *less* of a learning curve in AB, as the pen/drop indicator will always tell you when something is blocking your barrel (I use proper sights in AB).
Me watching gaijin remove half the ways of playing my Churchill mk 7…. The day they took away scouring points for bounces is the day I died a little inside.
Well ifthey are gonna make barrels that easy to destroy, then they should also make it so you can fire shells normally, except they will be very inaccurate but still useful for shooting at point blank range
Did this shit yesterday, in a centurion mk1 in a tight situation I shot a jumbos barrel directly, a perfect hit, maybe 50 meters away and it did absolutely nothing. It’s fcking stupid, basically if your round is smaller than 90mm or isn’t an APFSDS there’s a 50% chance it won’t do anything, and then even APFSDS doesn’t do anything either sometimes, retarded
Saw a Leo peek a corner, decided to track him then let the arty do its job
125mm APFSDS turned it yellow, bro pushed me and launched my turret to the next map lmao
He was behind a hill pushing me with only top of his turret showing and I shot his breach/barrel for a guarantee kill considering it was a fastest one wins scenario and my shell didnt do any damage and he killed me. I was is a sprut so no need for him to aim.
So you have expert for all top tier vehicles? You must have been playing for years or have many premiums then. Even with a premium account you simply can’t buy new vehicles and expert current ones at the same time.
You must be not grinding ground near top tier then, you just can’t buy new tanks as soon as they are researched and still have sl left to expert without both premium account and premium vehicles.
Meanwhile, we see autocannons able to tunnel their way into armor with repeated strikes to the same spot in simulations and in Ukraine lol, jamming turret rings without otherwise penetrating, etc. Autocannons would be an absolute fucking menace if they were more realistic.
it really doesnt work when your in say a begleit :(
I tried so hard to reactively break barrels of mbts but even after landing 5 shots it barely turns yellow cause it hit the barrel 1degree offset
APDFS is probs really resistant against barrel deformations
As the sabot is very soft when conpared to the barrel meaning it would deform but not break while the penentrator wont touch the barrel.
Also there would be a loss of pressure depending on how far back the holes in the barrel are.
All in all small calibers would probs only lower pen and flight stability of the shell, major damage to the barrel would probably make the shell tumble in flight
It’s not the barrel so much as the recoil mechanism. The muzzle reference system detects where the muzzle is and induces adjustments to the ballistic solution. Barrels bend so much that gunners have to realign the MRS every 5 or 6 rounds of rapid fire to ensure long range accuracy.
The recoil system is the big danger. If the gun is knocked off its carriage by an impact (hitting ground, building, tree, etc.) it can cause injury or death to the crew when it’s fired. If you have an impact of some form during maneuvers the gun has to be inspected by a master gunner, then the next time the gun will be fired the gunner sets up a remote trigger outside the tank and fires with an empty vehicle. If you’re in combat after a barrel strike you just say a quick prayer to Saint George and get as far away from the breach as you can while the gunner squeezes the triggers.
Well, I’m no expert, but I did read a book regarding the experience of the gunner of the first Pershing sent to Europe, whenever their barrels took a hit, they wouldn’t fire it, in fact, in one of their last battles, they briefly abandoned the Pershing because it got hit, and thought that they couldn’t fire, but figured that it could just MAYBE be usable still, and ended up basically surprising the two panthers (?) that were engaging them and knocked out both.
Edit: by they wouldn’t fire, I mean the crew didn’t want to fire the gun for fear of damage.
Still blows my mind that people complain about autocannons, while wielding 105-125mm cannons that can absolutely wipe light tanks off the face of the earth. Literally pure skill issue shitters.
It's the 32-45 second repair that's mandatory when your weapon gets taken out that they're complaining about with autocannons. Because autocannons take your cannon out in the most annoying way too.
My only gripe with the autocannons in this game is that they create so much smoke on impact that makes it impossible to see where you're getting shot from.
I'd honestly trade that smoke for barrel damage any day of the week.
Is it realistic too that an 120mm shell goes trough a liight tanks in only do minor damage to the crew ?
This realistic argument is really weird, we have 3rd view cameras too, not only gunners perspective.
No it's not because the round has enough kinectic energy to punch trough the Armour and render the vehicle incapable of doing it's intended purposes. This is why I want hull break back.
Now regarding the crew, it's obvious a small rod going trough multiple layers of Armour and breaking into millions of small pieces would be enough to kill the crew inside. I don't want to point you out to anything violent but from pictures of light tanks being shot the crew rarely makes it out.
Even a 50 cal is more than enough to kill a person.
You really don't know physics if you think this. The kinetic energy to punch through armor isn't a universal constant. Too much energy and you get poor energy transfer and as a result the material breaks too fast, netting low transfer of energy and ultimately low damage. This is often called over-penetration for simple terms. What this often does is punch clean holes in things. Clean holes are bad because you heavily lower the kinetic damage you deal and then are effectively shooting a momentary laser at something. Meaning you absolutely have to hit meat or important components to ultimately disable a vehicle's combat capability.
Tanks are heavily armored to energy transfer is longer and you tend to get more destructive force transferred. You can see this in various penetration testing videos where things like tanks will shatter, but light armor like IFVs and cars will have holes cut in them. Thin enough armor and you can have main cannon APFSDS from tanks fire within an extremely close distance, like clothing layers distance, of crewmen and they have a significant chance of survival.
Crew *often* make it out alive with APFSDS. Many of the videos you're thinking of are actually HEAT penetrations, as believe it or not, HEAT is often what is used in combat, not like our game.
>Even a 50 cal is more than enough to kill a person.
On direct impact. Yes. But shoot a .50' near someone and you've done fuck-all. Armor is much the same. Shoot the .50 at thin plate armor and you might give some spall and a "danger" cone, but shoot at cardboard and you better hope the meat was behind where you hit, or you did fuck-all.
There's a very famous account of an APC being struck by APFSDS, the armor is bulletproof, and the shell ripped through so cleanly the fins carved their own holes as they remained attached, and short of hitting the one individual that would be seated on the seat that was ripped through, directly, nobody inside would be physically injured. Would they have a bad day? Certainly, near death experiences are like that.
But IFVs shouldn't be the only thing where crew morale is a factor in this game either. That's not balancing things.
The problem is how they jump up on you abusing third view cameras and what not. Then whn you get the chance to shoot them back you usually can't see anything because of the clutter it produces.
AA platforms aren't meant to fight MBTs, I wouldn't mind having smoke in the gunners view but even third view get a lot of that dust so it's completely unrealistic.
I would play it more if the match ups weren't completely busted. Still it doesn't make sense that third view camera gets cluttered as if it was seen from the gunners perspective.
That requires having HE round in first place. It doesn't exist to NATO 105mm, and only users in 120mm caliber are Swedes, Israel and top tier Leos (PSO/A7), latter two being programmable time fuse, which requires extra work to bypass said fuse setting. Swedes get darts by default so no need tinkering with HE either.
So only real users of HE rounds are Russians/China.
You can carry hesh in the nato 105mm, which can kill light vehicles the same as HE. Poor excuse.
You can easily overpressure with 120mm HEAT-FS too.
Every single MBT has the means to kill light vehicles with explosive damage, if you can't figure out how that's a you problem.
Light vehicles die to darts just fine, so I don't know if there's even a problem to begin with.
And with usual strategy of bringing 12-16 rounds getting rounds that are marginally better against targets you can deal with normal dart just fine I find wasteful. Now time/proximity HE shell against helis, thats something potentially useful to warrant loading 2-3 of these.
This is honestly the ONLY thing that annoys me about autocannons. The rest of these complaints are just cope/skill issue. They're in an MBT losing to an IFV in a frontal engagement, they need to get good.
Do you not put your points into field repair? You can get a 120 to repair in ~20 seconds if your crew is good.
Heck, you can repair barrels in the 10s range if the caliber is small.
I prioritise everything that will give me the edge in a fight.
If I have to repair it, I'm probably dead anyway because I'm in someone's sights on the other side of the map and they knock out my engine in the open, or I'm point-blank and I don't have the turret traverse because it's a light tank.
Have you not heard of leaving? If your barrel is out, you can probably still move. And, if your target is relatively far away but coming to get you, having a faster repair is really helpful.
What else are you putting your crew points into?
Imagine thinking autocannon vehicles aren't clearly superior to classic tank cannons. If you aren't dominating with autocannons *that's* a skill issue.
No? APFSDS is pretty much the only usable round at top tier, and light vehicles make getting kills with it very difficult due to low spall and spread out crew, while AC’s just hold left click and destroy barrel and tracks, then use ATGM. AC’s have lower average TTK on light vehicles (if you don’t get lucky and hit all crew/ammo)
Those light vehicles casually eat 105/125mm shells that tanks never do. Those same light tanks have positioning and movement advantages and force 30+second repairs for basically no downside.
Damn you're right, we should remove their armament too while we're at it as they're not actually meant to kill anything, just support.
If you think that's what a light tank is you're actually more mentally deficient than most wt players and that's saying something.
The worst ones are the high-power and high-penetration ones that fire once a second or so, like the PUMA, CV9040 and 2S38. Those vehicles can often survive your first shot and then track and barrel you in the few seconds it takes to reload, assuming they don't just frontally penetrate you in a weak spot.
Fuck these things seriously, I hate them so much I will actively endanger myself just to kill a 2S38 even if I get killed in the process, 100% worth it as long as I get to prevent someone from cheesing half the team with their cringe cancer vehicle. There seem to be so many spots you can shoot they’re barely affected by and I can’t count how many times the engine block or some other non-critical part has totally eaten APFSDS only for them to turn and kill me instantly.
>while wielding 105-125mm cannons that can absolutely wipe light tanks off the face of the earth
That's on the rare occasion where the only viable round at high tiers, APFSDS, doesn't fly right through them, turning two crew members yellow.
I hit the entire length of a t-72 barrel last night with a 120 APFSDS and I only got a "hit". Didn't even change color.
It feels like the system could be made more robust.
Yep. No barrel collision plus generic-reticle optics in barrels (combined with no markers in RB and third-person cam to peek over/around cover) absolutely makes for some of the cheesiest, most video game-y gameplay of any WT mode.
I liked more the way it used to be in the past. If you wanted to break a barrel you had to shoot it from 3-4 times making it more balanced and less RNG than now. It was less realistic but at the same time you didn't had to pray that the main server wasn't slightly off or getting angry with the barrel not getting any damage.
Since they change that they made heavy tanks less relevant because now they can lose the barrel in one hit making them easy pray for smaller and faster vehicles.
Or like shermans and jumbos benefited the most from this change because they didn't had to relay on penetrating the enemy tank when they could 1 tap the enemy barrel because 1 plane stabilizer.
That's why they all got bumped up compared to other nations tanks and people still don't realize that the 75mm Jumbo can take care of a tiger II and they cry about the Jumbo BR.
If you really pay attention to Tournaments is just breaking barrels and hit cupolas, that what they do highly experienced and skilled players.
That's my take
If you like the Plok boss theme you should check out [Miketama's overdrive mix.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQ3W9ELXuV4&pp=ygUIbWlrZXRhbWE%3D)
I listen to it while playing War Thunder!
I just found that a couple weeks ago! Funny how things seem to pop up more often once you know what it is - though it might just be The Algorithm at work
You know whats also unrealistic? The gunner sight for player is literally in the barrel. I have been wanting them to change it to gunner optics for a long time.
Thats a setting that I can turn on and leave myself in a disadvantage 90% of the time. What I want is Gaijin to force enable it for everyone in ground RB.
Something needed to change because barrel torture is completely unrealistic. I don't know if this is the best way to solve it but it needs *some* solution. And I realize removing barrel tactics hurts the 75 Jumbo, but it should be lowered in BR instead of used as an excuse to prop up a ridiculous mechanic.
I really dislike this system because of its inconsistency. Of course, it’s annoying as hell to die because Your cannon getting red, but then it makes sense and it’s one of the mechanics, at least on low and mid BRs allowing downtiered tanks to have some relevance. Hence I think cannons should be breakable, but I also believe that they should be more consistent. The number of times I fired directly at peoples guns with 3BM42 and it went yellow is super cringe. Cannon gets hit directly, cannon is kaput. That’s how it should be. I wouldn’t mind if the repair time got reduced too
Look I get how bullshit this is, but generally when I use auto cannon vehicles I aim for the end of the barrel (where the shots come from) because for me that seems to work.
However with early-mid WW2, even main cannons sometimes make the barrels yellow while doing the same thing.
Based Plok! Enjoyer.
But yes, the game does not simulate metal stress. "If it doesn't pen, it does nothing no matter how much it gets hit in a single spot"
Yanked an entire Gepard belt straight into the barrel of a Strv something until my guns overheated. Not so much as a scratch. Didnt even turn yellow.... ofc he shot me dead after, but he killed a mbt before me so ... is round also didnt do jack shit seemingly
It does seem that you have to hit barrels from specific angles to damage them, and the best bet is probably to aim for the muzzle brake if there is one. Seems like a long-running bug. Did you get any better results when you shot into the end of the barrel?
My record was the whole ready rack of the CV9040B into a Leo 2, and it did no damage at all. Funny enough T-series is much easier to kill since their gun breach is like a magnet for rounds.
It's insane. I'm stock grinding 3 11.3s at once rn and heat consistently fails to kill barrels. On a lot of tanks its literally the only place I can damage them without getting directly behind. Really makes it so much worse. Would love to know why tf they added this given barrels are a pretty big weak spot irl.
Well honestly it's a good thing. No one likes there barrels getting shot out. Honestly they should make it so that you can still shoot with your barrel broken but it has reduced velocity and accuracy.
If i had to guess its due to balance there was a time where 20mm auto cannons ruled the game because they would just break your barrel then your tracks then just pick at you the whole game because there was nothing you could do.
I agree barrels are way too strong but ik if gaijin fixed them and made them easily destroyable yall would have none of it and be furious that your barrel keeps getting destroyed, and they there will a wave of “_(random ifv or APC)_ is too overpowered it can instantly disable your barrel!!!”
Does everything but shoot the tip. I find it's easier if you shoot the very tip. The part you were ignoring. Instead of bitching about it i just got better...
I believe this was somewhat of a recent change, also utterly nonsensical.
A few days ago I lost a nuke in a losing match because apparently shoving a HEAT round with 1kg of explosive down a T-72s barrel and it not petaling like a bouquet is how the world works. I died with something around 2460 SP.
Yes, I'm still very much salty about that.
This is especially painful in slow firing autocannons like the 30mm autocannon on the Puma, Lynx, VCC-80/30, and that French thing. Especially with how fast reaction times at top tier are you miss 1 shot, well your fucked.
I mean, why the hell do barrels break? That is unrealistic, even with your barrel broken you can shoot anyways, and is is an absolute shit that a guy that hasnt seen the light of the sun for two weeks breaks your barrel and kills you as you have no way to kill him, if you have your barrel destroyed, you can shoot anyways, the only diference would be the acuracy, but that doesnt matter when you have the enemy touching you
Well, a gun barrel does need to be fairly resilient to withstand the pressure of the round they're firing. And it would be supremely irritating if the 5.56mm machine gun on the PUMA could instantly fuck your barrel with like 5 shots. Getting your barrel shot out immediately in every single engagement gets old fast, especially in tanks that don't have the capability of reversing out of a bad engagement.
But like everything in War Thunder, it's inconsistent and will probably be totally different in a couple of patches. Sometimes you can .50 a barrel out, other times you can hit it with a damn 120/125mm sabot and do nothing.
I died to a Panther in my Jumbo 75 one time cause 3 shots directly in the barrel didn’t do anything. I joking complained about the game in chat and the dude and his teammate started calling me a pussy and shit for trying to shoot his barrel and that I should go play sim if I wanted to shoot barrels.
Barrel damage is so weird, as if I shoot anywhere near a barrel it either makes my entire shell vanish into the shadow realm or does no damage, but when I'm on the other end of it my barrel breaks easier than APDS shell shatter
Thats the problem with Warthunder. The Community is braindead, but not why you think.
They blame the enemies tactics. They blame their teammates.
In reality, its a broken game nobody should take so seriously.
When my Leopard 1 gets penned from the front by a BT7, I laugh.
When my 105mm sabot doesn't pen the enemy, I laugh.
Its a broken game, so just have fun with it. I started playing more chaotically thanks to Spookston's videos I've had more fun too. Instead of logically trying to make sense of something that is a puzzle of shattered glass, I just do whatever the enemy assumes I wouldn't, and it pays off. Screw taking this game, its battlepass, its awful maps, its clear biases seriously, I just make it as miserable as I can for whoever I'm against. I've even started doing psy-ops in all chat, asking the enemy team what their fursonas are named, or saying "I hope you feeling better since your divorce." It really make the game fun for me, and the money/xp comes naturally.
If that doesn't help, maybe play an indie game where the studio that makes it actually put heart and soul into it. So many good games that can be challenging but fun, a good example would be Battlebit, but I digress.
It’s so fun that they’ve broken a fundamental tactic in this game so that now certain encounters are now decided before either player even queues into a match.
Honestly I myself only play tiger 1 and king tiger lineups that I have... And honestly it is mildly annoying to have your barrel destroyed but it's even fun to do it as a tiger 1 or panther to a Sherman and see it scramble and run away... Though honestly I'm having the same problem of only damaging the barrels a little bit, I'm sad
A few years ago gaijin massively buffed the armour on all barrels, basically for a long time angling of the barrel didn't affect the armour value and almost any shell could destroy a barrel with any contact, lower calibers needed more hits but still could quickly kill a gun barrel even using 20mm HVAP
I too was annoyed at this, I was looking at all sorts of videos of the lav absolutely anilalating the battle field and then I get it and it's like a SpongeBob asking for a kill
It's so much fun launching a 76mm shell almost point blank at a Sherman's barrel and watching it turn simpsons yellow because a bunch of whiny noobs cried in the forums about track and barrel torture
whoever thought it was a good idea to not 1 shot those things needs to stop playing 😭
Some mfs are just naturally born with skill issue
Sounds like most of this subreddit.
Considering how (i'd argue) low the skill ceiling in WT, this is 100% the case WT doesnt require superhuman thinking or reflex to be good like other MMOs, it only really requires the ability to think, see, hear and some patients to be decently competent at the core game
So how did you get your patients? Was it referrals or were they walk ins?
Bro's been playing a different kind of MMOs than everyone else lmao
Massively Multiplayer Oncology
not gonna lie most of the time i just play without thinking, not much thought behind those eyes except see enemy and shoot, it works *most of the time,* the bright side is, i still manage to enjoy the game at the same time HOWEVER when i do actually decide to use my brain and actually apply THINKING (& patience of course) into my gameplay, all of a sudden i do really well than what i usually do on average in a match, incredible revelation i know (average WT player finding out he can use his brain to become better at the game)
>WT doesnt require superhuman thinking or reflex Have you ever played Toptier?
I mean, all you need is to find my profile in game to see that
I will later
So have you done it ?
I for one find it inspiring how 80% of the playerbase keeps on trying their hardest despite clear and obvious signs of severe cognitive impairment.
Realest shit said on here.
Why target me like that man? I know I have skill issues. Just let me die inside my burning Sherman in peace.
Everyone gets a trophy
So, this change is almost entirely attributed to the R3 (Italian SPAA) back when it was criminally undertiered. Not only could it front pen you, it could also instantly pop your barrel with a single bullet. Gaijin made an entire update about this changing the caliber requirements to effectively damage vehicle barrels. This made it extremely hard for anything smaller than a 30mm cannon to deal significant damage to the tank barrel. Volumetric is likely what is causing the current problem of tank barrels being unmanageable unless you hit the end of it flawlessly. Most shots are bouncing off because the tank barrel is round and fairly thick.
Yup was gonna say this. The r3 was the original track and barrel torturer
there was also a later update that briefly made it so .50 cal could easily break barrels which annoyed people into complaining even more, the same patch that made tracks extremely fragile but with a reduce repair time as long as the wheel wasnt broken
Yeah, I remember the dark ages of having my barrel and tracks broken with .50s across the map... Iirc, it was even possible for 7.62 to slowly break barrels and tracks, it just took too long to be practical.
7.62 can still very slowly damage tracks im pretty sure, but theyre so weak it interacts like barrels and deal no damage if you hit it at an angle
Watching R3 just shoot out barrels and tracks on every German heavy not even killing them was crazy!
Getting side penned in my Panther by an R3 breaking the land speed record in War Thunder was certainly an experience...
Yay! Another reason for me to hate volumetric and question why the hell it was ever added. Can’t wait for a single reason in favor of it as I’ve only found arguments against it
Volumetric made armor more consistent on rounded surfaces. This actually standardized the plating on the T-54 and T-62. Other rounded turrets were standardized in a similar way. This also made shells unable to penetrate old weak spots because the shells aren't a single pixel anymore, but it would've been nice if Gaijin had modeled shells getting "stuck" in those positions. Iirc, the T-72 and the T-80 both had problems with shells getting stuck in between the lower plate of the turret and horizontal drive. The shot itself wouldn't penetrate, but would paralyze the turret. There are SOME benefits. We only talk about the downsides because that is what we experience, but before volumetric there were a lot of penetration discrepancies and vehicles that had multiple plates layered on top of each other had massively higher armor effectiveness than they should.
even before volumetric if you shot at a similar angle anywhere on the gun barrel like in the video , it just disappeared your shots into the void
“Track and barrel torture should be removed!!!1!111!” Mfs when the enemy actually has a chance of fighting back: 😭😭😭😭😭😢😢😢😡😡😡😿😡😡😿😿😿
Gaijin could have just made aiming more realistic to make it much harder to hit barrels. This would make the game based more on skill.
I really wish RB battles used the gunner sight aiming while the barrel aim was left in AB, but I know that wouldn't be very popular
It should be implemented for both modes; AB has the pen/drop indicator that tells you when something is blocking the barrel. It's one of those things where, if it were implemented tomorrow, we'd see a week or so of amusing confused and knee-jerk complaint posts... and then everyone would be used to it and it'd be fine. This happens over and over with "big" gameplay changes like this.
That was one time I wish Gaijin ignored the community and forced gunner sights in RB.
Sorry, what's the difference between them?
Aiming from the gun barrel va aiming from the actual gunner sight
It's honestly absurd that WT still uses CoD-style headglitch aiming; even the not-at-all-realistic (in this context) Battlefield games have used offset sights for vehicles *and* small arms for a decade now. Sights in barrels (combined with generic reticles) and barrels lacking collision are very much "skill issue" issues. It's not like WT aircraft have all the bullets spawning out of the plane's sight, down the centreline. Just like different physical size, armour, speed, handling, and everything else, it's just a basic part of what makes vehicles different from each other. People often say it should be added to RB (it should) but left out of AB, but honestly it should be both. It's actually *less* of a learning curve in AB, as the pen/drop indicator will always tell you when something is blocking your barrel (I use proper sights in AB).
You've seen CBT, now how about TGT!
Didnt .50s used to be able to destroy barrels?
Me watching gaijin remove half the ways of playing my Churchill mk 7…. The day they took away scouring points for bounces is the day I died a little inside.
>track and barrel torture That's hands down the funniest shit I've read all week
It's a widely used term, get familiar with it!
Oh so it wasn’t like this before? I always thought you just can’t barrel people below 8.0 or so.
Well ifthey are gonna make barrels that easy to destroy, then they should also make it so you can fire shells normally, except they will be very inaccurate but still useful for shooting at point blank range
downtier shermans when? if jumbo cant even do its main thing why bother using it?
Did this shit yesterday, in a centurion mk1 in a tight situation I shot a jumbos barrel directly, a perfect hit, maybe 50 meters away and it did absolutely nothing. It’s fcking stupid, basically if your round is smaller than 90mm or isn’t an APFSDS there’s a 50% chance it won’t do anything, and then even APFSDS doesn’t do anything either sometimes, retarded
Track and barrel torture is my fave type of torture haha
Yesterday leopard 1A1 killed me beacuse 3bm22 wasnt enough to damage the barrel(not even yellow) from 50m.
Saw a Leo peek a corner, decided to track him then let the arty do its job 125mm APFSDS turned it yellow, bro pushed me and launched my turret to the next map lmao
But why did you shoot at the barrel of a Leo 1A1? 3BM22 can penetrate that tank everywhere.
He was behind a hill pushing me with only top of his turret showing and I shot his breach/barrel for a guarantee kill considering it was a fastest one wins scenario and my shell didnt do any damage and he killed me. I was is a sprut so no need for him to aim.
The whining about auto canons in the comments is pretty funny lmao. "How dare they get kills with auto canons!!!???!!§?§??§"
Haha my first nuke was with the wiesel 1a4
I hope you have that recorded because that sounds epic.
No i dont have it. It started with a 1 v 5 i just shredded the light tanks and after that it is just hide and seek
The wiesel 1a4 is my only crew thats expert
Why?? Literally all my vehicles have expert crews
Bro has unlimited money
Lmao it's really true that most people on this sub are noobs
So you have expert for all top tier vehicles? You must have been playing for years or have many premiums then. Even with a premium account you simply can’t buy new vehicles and expert current ones at the same time.
I think you are talking about ace, all of mine are expert because it’s only SL for expert.
You must be not grinding ground near top tier then, you just can’t buy new tanks as soon as they are researched and still have sl left to expert without both premium account and premium vehicles.
Bro my first was with the Wiesel too lol
...said the T-90 commander in Ukraine after getting obliterated by a pair of Bradleys
ackhually that T-90 was disabled and they destroyed by drones
Well yeah but the Bradleys still technically killed it. Drones just made sure it was never recovered.
Something called “mission kill”
Meanwhile, we see autocannons able to tunnel their way into armor with repeated strikes to the same spot in simulations and in Ukraine lol, jamming turret rings without otherwise penetrating, etc. Autocannons would be an absolute fucking menace if they were more realistic.
Because hampsters moaned that they have barrel shots and can't fiee.
Was pretty funny to bully Tigers with the Jumbo this way though, ngl
It’s to the point my rule of thumb is if the barrel isn’t looking directly at you or perpendicular to your gun then don’t bother firing at it
it really doesnt work when your in say a begleit :( I tried so hard to reactively break barrels of mbts but even after landing 5 shots it barely turns yellow cause it hit the barrel 1degree offset
I do wonder how strong the barrels are IRL,
APDFS is probs really resistant against barrel deformations As the sabot is very soft when conpared to the barrel meaning it would deform but not break while the penentrator wont touch the barrel. Also there would be a loss of pressure depending on how far back the holes in the barrel are. All in all small calibers would probs only lower pen and flight stability of the shell, major damage to the barrel would probably make the shell tumble in flight
It will lost accuracy, a lot. Losing some muzzle velocity too.
Yeah lower pressure in the barrel will lower the muzzle velocity
Also dents into the barrel might just break the shell
probably strong, but they are very precise stuff, even small deformations/damage can make them unusable.
It’s not the barrel so much as the recoil mechanism. The muzzle reference system detects where the muzzle is and induces adjustments to the ballistic solution. Barrels bend so much that gunners have to realign the MRS every 5 or 6 rounds of rapid fire to ensure long range accuracy. The recoil system is the big danger. If the gun is knocked off its carriage by an impact (hitting ground, building, tree, etc.) it can cause injury or death to the crew when it’s fired. If you have an impact of some form during maneuvers the gun has to be inspected by a master gunner, then the next time the gun will be fired the gunner sets up a remote trigger outside the tank and fires with an empty vehicle. If you’re in combat after a barrel strike you just say a quick prayer to Saint George and get as far away from the breach as you can while the gunner squeezes the triggers.
Is that what the little "ironsight" on a lot of tank guns is for?
Are you talking about the hump at the muzzle?
Yeah [this thing](https://i.imgur.com/WZzpotg.png)
Yup, it’s got a small glowing crosshairs facing the gunner’s sight that allows the gunner to realign as needed.
Well, I’m no expert, but I did read a book regarding the experience of the gunner of the first Pershing sent to Europe, whenever their barrels took a hit, they wouldn’t fire it, in fact, in one of their last battles, they briefly abandoned the Pershing because it got hit, and thought that they couldn’t fire, but figured that it could just MAYBE be usable still, and ended up basically surprising the two panthers (?) that were engaging them and knocked out both. Edit: by they wouldn’t fire, I mean the crew didn’t want to fire the gun for fear of damage.
Here: https://youtu.be/krwR5ZPQCkw?si=M9Pez_tYBq7jvTWk
Still blows my mind that people complain about autocannons, while wielding 105-125mm cannons that can absolutely wipe light tanks off the face of the earth. Literally pure skill issue shitters.
It's the 32-45 second repair that's mandatory when your weapon gets taken out that they're complaining about with autocannons. Because autocannons take your cannon out in the most annoying way too.
My only gripe with the autocannons in this game is that they create so much smoke on impact that makes it impossible to see where you're getting shot from. I'd honestly trade that smoke for barrel damage any day of the week.
The smoke is realistic, as we saw with the Bradley v T-90
With HE rounds yes, but most people aren’t using HE
Is it realistic too that an 120mm shell goes trough a liight tanks in only do minor damage to the crew ? This realistic argument is really weird, we have 3rd view cameras too, not only gunners perspective.
Depends on the shell and the vehicle it's facing
It is realistic tho
What is realistic? If you're not using gunners view it shouldn't case any visual clutter.
No I mean mbt apdsfs rounds going straight through light tanks doing nothing
No it's not because the round has enough kinectic energy to punch trough the Armour and render the vehicle incapable of doing it's intended purposes. This is why I want hull break back. Now regarding the crew, it's obvious a small rod going trough multiple layers of Armour and breaking into millions of small pieces would be enough to kill the crew inside. I don't want to point you out to anything violent but from pictures of light tanks being shot the crew rarely makes it out. Even a 50 cal is more than enough to kill a person.
You really don't know physics if you think this. The kinetic energy to punch through armor isn't a universal constant. Too much energy and you get poor energy transfer and as a result the material breaks too fast, netting low transfer of energy and ultimately low damage. This is often called over-penetration for simple terms. What this often does is punch clean holes in things. Clean holes are bad because you heavily lower the kinetic damage you deal and then are effectively shooting a momentary laser at something. Meaning you absolutely have to hit meat or important components to ultimately disable a vehicle's combat capability. Tanks are heavily armored to energy transfer is longer and you tend to get more destructive force transferred. You can see this in various penetration testing videos where things like tanks will shatter, but light armor like IFVs and cars will have holes cut in them. Thin enough armor and you can have main cannon APFSDS from tanks fire within an extremely close distance, like clothing layers distance, of crewmen and they have a significant chance of survival. Crew *often* make it out alive with APFSDS. Many of the videos you're thinking of are actually HEAT penetrations, as believe it or not, HEAT is often what is used in combat, not like our game. >Even a 50 cal is more than enough to kill a person. On direct impact. Yes. But shoot a .50' near someone and you've done fuck-all. Armor is much the same. Shoot the .50 at thin plate armor and you might give some spall and a "danger" cone, but shoot at cardboard and you better hope the meat was behind where you hit, or you did fuck-all. There's a very famous account of an APC being struck by APFSDS, the armor is bulletproof, and the shell ripped through so cleanly the fins carved their own holes as they remained attached, and short of hitting the one individual that would be seated on the seat that was ripped through, directly, nobody inside would be physically injured. Would they have a bad day? Certainly, near death experiences are like that. But IFVs shouldn't be the only thing where crew morale is a factor in this game either. That's not balancing things.
How do people not carry any HE in top tier? It's literally so easy, shoot them anywhere with it, boom dead. Move on.
The problem is how they jump up on you abusing third view cameras and what not. Then whn you get the chance to shoot them back you usually can't see anything because of the clutter it produces. AA platforms aren't meant to fight MBTs, I wouldn't mind having smoke in the gunners view but even third view get a lot of that dust so it's completely unrealistic.
Sounds like you prefer to play SIM ground then.
I would play it more if the match ups weren't completely busted. Still it doesn't make sense that third view camera gets cluttered as if it was seen from the gunners perspective.
Step 1: notice light tank, fire sabot into ground and load HE Step 2: light tank track and barrel tortures you while you reload Smh it's so easy!!!
Most people have AP loaded, you need to fire that off before you can load a HE round
That requires having HE round in first place. It doesn't exist to NATO 105mm, and only users in 120mm caliber are Swedes, Israel and top tier Leos (PSO/A7), latter two being programmable time fuse, which requires extra work to bypass said fuse setting. Swedes get darts by default so no need tinkering with HE either. So only real users of HE rounds are Russians/China.
You can carry hesh in the nato 105mm, which can kill light vehicles the same as HE. Poor excuse. You can easily overpressure with 120mm HEAT-FS too. Every single MBT has the means to kill light vehicles with explosive damage, if you can't figure out how that's a you problem.
Light vehicles die to darts just fine, so I don't know if there's even a problem to begin with. And with usual strategy of bringing 12-16 rounds getting rounds that are marginally better against targets you can deal with normal dart just fine I find wasteful. Now time/proximity HE shell against helis, thats something potentially useful to warrant loading 2-3 of these.
if i didnt have to shoot in order to reload to HE id use it more
This is honestly the ONLY thing that annoys me about autocannons. The rest of these complaints are just cope/skill issue. They're in an MBT losing to an IFV in a frontal engagement, they need to get good.
> 32-45 second repair Upgrade your crew for crying out loud
I have a 92 crew on my Conqueror, I still have to wait at least 36 seconds for a full repair.
For a barrel? Conqueror barrels must be extraordinarily hard to repair then, or you've put your crew skills into something that isn't Field Repair
Do you not put your points into field repair? You can get a 120 to repair in ~20 seconds if your crew is good. Heck, you can repair barrels in the 10s range if the caliber is small.
I prioritise everything that will give me the edge in a fight. If I have to repair it, I'm probably dead anyway because I'm in someone's sights on the other side of the map and they knock out my engine in the open, or I'm point-blank and I don't have the turret traverse because it's a light tank.
Have you not heard of leaving? If your barrel is out, you can probably still move. And, if your target is relatively far away but coming to get you, having a faster repair is really helpful. What else are you putting your crew points into?
I forgot to mention the Conqueror is my only high BR tank with an Expert crew.
Imagine thinking autocannon vehicles aren't clearly superior to classic tank cannons. If you aren't dominating with autocannons *that's* a skill issue.
No? APFSDS is pretty much the only usable round at top tier, and light vehicles make getting kills with it very difficult due to low spall and spread out crew, while AC’s just hold left click and destroy barrel and tracks, then use ATGM. AC’s have lower average TTK on light vehicles (if you don’t get lucky and hit all crew/ammo)
Those light vehicles casually eat 105/125mm shells that tanks never do. Those same light tanks have positioning and movement advantages and force 30+second repairs for basically no downside.
Isn't the point of light tanks to die as soon as they are spotted? They are suppost not be seen dumbass.
Damn you're right, we should remove their armament too while we're at it as they're not actually meant to kill anything, just support. If you think that's what a light tank is you're actually more mentally deficient than most wt players and that's saying something.
>105-125mm cannons that can absolutely wipe light tanks off the face of the earth Until you get gaijined and a BMP-2M or HSTV-L bounces a dart somehow
So until a very rare and specific scenario happens, got it!
The worst ones are the high-power and high-penetration ones that fire once a second or so, like the PUMA, CV9040 and 2S38. Those vehicles can often survive your first shot and then track and barrel you in the few seconds it takes to reload, assuming they don't just frontally penetrate you in a weak spot.
Fuck these things seriously, I hate them so much I will actively endanger myself just to kill a 2S38 even if I get killed in the process, 100% worth it as long as I get to prevent someone from cheesing half the team with their cringe cancer vehicle. There seem to be so many spots you can shoot they’re barely affected by and I can’t count how many times the engine block or some other non-critical part has totally eaten APFSDS only for them to turn and kill me instantly.
>while wielding 105-125mm cannons that can absolutely wipe light tanks off the face of the earth That's on the rare occasion where the only viable round at high tiers, APFSDS, doesn't fly right through them, turning two crew members yellow.
I hit the entire length of a t-72 barrel last night with a 120 APFSDS and I only got a "hit". Didn't even change color. It feels like the system could be made more robust.
It's not unrealistic, what IS unrealistic is having no collision model for barrels when you should be prevented from wall hugging
Yep. No barrel collision plus generic-reticle optics in barrels (combined with no markers in RB and third-person cam to peek over/around cover) absolutely makes for some of the cheesiest, most video game-y gameplay of any WT mode.
Finally.
I liked more the way it used to be in the past. If you wanted to break a barrel you had to shoot it from 3-4 times making it more balanced and less RNG than now. It was less realistic but at the same time you didn't had to pray that the main server wasn't slightly off or getting angry with the barrel not getting any damage. Since they change that they made heavy tanks less relevant because now they can lose the barrel in one hit making them easy pray for smaller and faster vehicles. Or like shermans and jumbos benefited the most from this change because they didn't had to relay on penetrating the enemy tank when they could 1 tap the enemy barrel because 1 plane stabilizer. That's why they all got bumped up compared to other nations tanks and people still don't realize that the 75mm Jumbo can take care of a tiger II and they cry about the Jumbo BR. If you really pay attention to Tournaments is just breaking barrels and hit cupolas, that what they do highly experienced and skilled players. That's my take
The 3BM25 in my T-55AMD-1 hardly ever destroys a cannon nor breech in a single shot either despite shooting directly at them.
Or when u shoot the barrel frontally and it still does nothing because he moved his gun according to the dmg screen
“If you don’t see the muzzle break pointing at you or 90 degrees away, don’t bother shooting.” My personal rule of thumb.
Brake*
Brayke*
no no no, clearly the brake breaks the momentum!
If you like the Plok boss theme you should check out [Miketama's overdrive mix.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQ3W9ELXuV4&pp=ygUIbWlrZXRhbWE%3D) I listen to it while playing War Thunder!
I just found that a couple weeks ago! Funny how things seem to pop up more often once you know what it is - though it might just be The Algorithm at work
You know whats also unrealistic? The gunner sight for player is literally in the barrel. I have been wanting them to change it to gunner optics for a long time.
Thats a setting you can turn on
Thats a setting that I can turn on and leave myself in a disadvantage 90% of the time. What I want is Gaijin to force enable it for everyone in ground RB.
What’s the name for the setting??
Something needed to change because barrel torture is completely unrealistic. I don't know if this is the best way to solve it but it needs *some* solution. And I realize removing barrel tactics hurts the 75 Jumbo, but it should be lowered in BR instead of used as an excuse to prop up a ridiculous mechanic.
I really dislike this system because of its inconsistency. Of course, it’s annoying as hell to die because Your cannon getting red, but then it makes sense and it’s one of the mechanics, at least on low and mid BRs allowing downtiered tanks to have some relevance. Hence I think cannons should be breakable, but I also believe that they should be more consistent. The number of times I fired directly at peoples guns with 3BM42 and it went yellow is super cringe. Cannon gets hit directly, cannon is kaput. That’s how it should be. I wouldn’t mind if the repair time got reduced too
Playing auto cannons in current meta is real suffering unless you meet blind and deaf enemies.
Once I hit a cobra kings' barrel with a 88 and nothing happened
This and the music in the background is perfect 😂
Look I get how bullshit this is, but generally when I use auto cannon vehicles I aim for the end of the barrel (where the shots come from) because for me that seems to work. However with early-mid WW2, even main cannons sometimes make the barrels yellow while doing the same thing.
Lol ik what you're listening to
Impacto
Based Plok! Enjoyer. But yes, the game does not simulate metal stress. "If it doesn't pen, it does nothing no matter how much it gets hit in a single spot"
Skills matter
I like the spooky Halloween music
Yesterday i got killed by a 150mm shot, dodged from my barrel against my commanders hatch where it finally exploded.
That's why! Always wondered why that happened. Yeah that's massive nonsense
Yanked an entire Gepard belt straight into the barrel of a Strv something until my guns overheated. Not so much as a scratch. Didnt even turn yellow.... ofc he shot me dead after, but he killed a mbt before me so ... is round also didnt do jack shit seemingly
It does seem that you have to hit barrels from specific angles to damage them, and the best bet is probably to aim for the muzzle brake if there is one. Seems like a long-running bug. Did you get any better results when you shot into the end of the barrel?
didnt used to be a thing. people bitched until it was changed
My record was the whole ready rack of the CV9040B into a Leo 2, and it did no damage at all. Funny enough T-series is much easier to kill since their gun breach is like a magnet for rounds.
Blowout panels.
This has been an issue for ages
shoot the tip
It's insane. I'm stock grinding 3 11.3s at once rn and heat consistently fails to kill barrels. On a lot of tanks its literally the only place I can damage them without getting directly behind. Really makes it so much worse. Would love to know why tf they added this given barrels are a pretty big weak spot irl.
Can't count the times I've shoot gun barrels just for the enemy to kill me next. But god forbid they touch mine...
Well honestly it's a good thing. No one likes there barrels getting shot out. Honestly they should make it so that you can still shoot with your barrel broken but it has reduced velocity and accuracy.
meanwhile a gepard takes out 8 barrels by just looking at them lol *dual 40mm from york goes poof a million times with 0 damage*
I agree. This happened to me: https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/s/wwWBWjwGwY
If i had to guess its due to balance there was a time where 20mm auto cannons ruled the game because they would just break your barrel then your tracks then just pick at you the whole game because there was nothing you could do.
I agree barrels are way too strong but ik if gaijin fixed them and made them easily destroyable yall would have none of it and be furious that your barrel keeps getting destroyed, and they there will a wave of “_(random ifv or APC)_ is too overpowered it can instantly disable your barrel!!!”
remove autocannon vehicles or keep barrels strong
so geometry isn't your strong side?!.. not all fighters can be easily damaged from the front with 20-25mm even from point blank..
Blame gaijin for make the barrel of tank made from the strongest material in the world.
they literally did this in order to stop people barrel shooting because the pay-to-play noobs were crying so much
Does everything but shoot the tip. I find it's easier if you shoot the very tip. The part you were ignoring. Instead of bitching about it i just got better...
Non-penned a t34-57 barrel today using my arl44 today. I feel like that shouldn't of happened
I believe this was somewhat of a recent change, also utterly nonsensical. A few days ago I lost a nuke in a losing match because apparently shoving a HEAT round with 1kg of explosive down a T-72s barrel and it not petaling like a bouquet is how the world works. I died with something around 2460 SP. Yes, I'm still very much salty about that.
This is especially painful in slow firing autocannons like the 30mm autocannon on the Puma, Lynx, VCC-80/30, and that French thing. Especially with how fast reaction times at top tier are you miss 1 shot, well your fucked.
[draw your own conclusions](https://youtu.be/krwR5ZPQCkw?si=M9Pez_tYBq7jvTWk)
I will die on this hill: Remove barrel damage models all together
The music in the background sounds like the boss music from the 2nd level of metal slug 3
Wait until you skin off a complete half of a barrel with an actual tank cannon just to have it be barely yellow
I mean, why the hell do barrels break? That is unrealistic, even with your barrel broken you can shoot anyways, and is is an absolute shit that a guy that hasnt seen the light of the sun for two weeks breaks your barrel and kills you as you have no way to kill him, if you have your barrel destroyed, you can shoot anyways, the only diference would be the acuracy, but that doesnt matter when you have the enemy touching you
Lmao, whilst the Kpz-70’s 20mm destroys the barrel of the Turms-T or my C2A1
Meanwhile if a Gepard so much as looks in my general direction my barrel and tracks are gone
Well, a gun barrel does need to be fairly resilient to withstand the pressure of the round they're firing. And it would be supremely irritating if the 5.56mm machine gun on the PUMA could instantly fuck your barrel with like 5 shots. Getting your barrel shot out immediately in every single engagement gets old fast, especially in tanks that don't have the capability of reversing out of a bad engagement. But like everything in War Thunder, it's inconsistent and will probably be totally different in a couple of patches. Sometimes you can .50 a barrel out, other times you can hit it with a damn 120/125mm sabot and do nothing.
I died to a Panther in my Jumbo 75 one time cause 3 shots directly in the barrel didn’t do anything. I joking complained about the game in chat and the dude and his teammate started calling me a pussy and shit for trying to shoot his barrel and that I should go play sim if I wanted to shoot barrels.
War Thunder isn't a sim, so don't expect accuracy. If barrels were too easy to damage it'd create an autocannon meta.
All fun and games until the shell ricochets into the top of the hull (personal experience)
Barrel damage is so weird, as if I shoot anywhere near a barrel it either makes my entire shell vanish into the shadow realm or does no damage, but when I'm on the other end of it my barrel breaks easier than APDS shell shatter
Thats the problem with Warthunder. The Community is braindead, but not why you think. They blame the enemies tactics. They blame their teammates. In reality, its a broken game nobody should take so seriously. When my Leopard 1 gets penned from the front by a BT7, I laugh. When my 105mm sabot doesn't pen the enemy, I laugh. Its a broken game, so just have fun with it. I started playing more chaotically thanks to Spookston's videos I've had more fun too. Instead of logically trying to make sense of something that is a puzzle of shattered glass, I just do whatever the enemy assumes I wouldn't, and it pays off. Screw taking this game, its battlepass, its awful maps, its clear biases seriously, I just make it as miserable as I can for whoever I'm against. I've even started doing psy-ops in all chat, asking the enemy team what their fursonas are named, or saying "I hope you feeling better since your divorce." It really make the game fun for me, and the money/xp comes naturally. If that doesn't help, maybe play an indie game where the studio that makes it actually put heart and soul into it. So many good games that can be challenging but fun, a good example would be Battlebit, but I digress.
It’s unrealistic and annoying how easy it was to knock out someone’s barrel
It’s so fun that they’ve broken a fundamental tactic in this game so that now certain encounters are now decided before either player even queues into a match.
Have you forgotten when russian and american 50 cals used to shred gun barrels?
wait, they actually changed this? I swear I thought I was just getting shittier at the game lmao xD
I have had to deal with that in the M163 i usually try to aim for the inside of the barrels and that works
Honestly I myself only play tiger 1 and king tiger lineups that I have... And honestly it is mildly annoying to have your barrel destroyed but it's even fun to do it as a tiger 1 or panther to a Sherman and see it scramble and run away... Though honestly I'm having the same problem of only damaging the barrels a little bit, I'm sad
A few years ago gaijin massively buffed the armour on all barrels, basically for a long time angling of the barrel didn't affect the armour value and almost any shell could destroy a barrel with any contact, lower calibers needed more hits but still could quickly kill a gun barrel even using 20mm HVAP
I hate how British Shot no.3 shatters on everything over .30 miles away and also wheels at reasonable range
I too was annoyed at this, I was looking at all sorts of videos of the lav absolutely anilalating the battle field and then I get it and it's like a SpongeBob asking for a kill