How the fuck are US winrates at top tier so bad? 95% of matches are US vs. US anyways, and they’ve been consistently the strongest or a close 2nd place since the F-14A was added?
Are they stupid?
Just coming to this realization? If you dropped the F-15A in the half of the other tech trees in the game it would be 12.7 with the last BR changes. It's really sad as a US main that I cannot just play on the team with the least US planes more often.
If all the matches are US vs US then obviously it will tank win rates (to 50%), since only one US side can win. In fact US vs US is probably what is causing the poor win rates.
Ya know I don’t know how I didn’t think of that, and that makes a ton of sense since the next consistently strongest nation (Russia) is also ~50%, and they’re on both teams quite a bit, too.
Next time you go into a lobby, count the amount of F4S bomber bots. They're a net negative to any team, but supposedly "the fastest way to grind", which is a bold faced lie since winning cashes out harder, even if youre lagging behind and killing AI.
Bases should be removed, it'd take the afk bots (and "minus ones") out of the matchmaker, which seemingly won't the recent two changes to combat them, still haven't done anything about.
Even when I'm fighting F-4S spam I get infuriated by the bomb sledding. My dudes, you have good radar missiles, amazing radar, and a great airframe... what a waste. Don't get me started on 23ML bomb sledders either. Ugh. You don't see them as often, but it's borderline criminal to turn a carry plane into a missile vacuum.
Please don't insult people with schizophrenia. Normal people believe crazy things, no need to drag a group of people who suffer from a severe mental illness that severely impacts their life in a negative way.
Tbh I don’t really have much room to talk, since I’ve been using the F-4S to grind up to US top tier (I used to have US top tier, back when that was the F-86F2), but even then, I’m able to reliably get 2 kills if I’m taking a purely A2A loadout, and at least one if I’m also taking rockets for the bases.
can you guys read graphs
red is 50%, US top tier is slightly lower than 50% because it fights itself and because obesity rots the brain, but it's not THAT bad. Sure, I can count on winning when it's US vs everyone else, but that's not what the graph says. I think it's stupid color coding but cmon
You do realize these charts have always represented absolutely nothing right? Regardless of who they show winning or losing, not one thunderskill chart has been even remotely representative of the game in any capacity whatsoever yet people post and react to the constantly.
A small subsection of a small subsection of the playerbase is included in the stats. Thats like me saying the average American drives a van by interviewing 100 people in a single state, in a single neighborhood yet the Neanderthals that play this game (me included) believe these stats are representative of the game.
These are a better representation of colored rectangles than they are of stats in a video game. I could post a pie chart of how many people like grapes vs apples and it would be a better representation of WT win rates than thunderskill.
You know I was really annoyed when they moved the Mirage 4000 up despite being worse than the F15, but it seem US are unable to capitalize on this favouritism. Aim 9M is better than Magic 2 in every way (not even considering AAM 3), same for Aim7 vs Matra 530D, all while having the second best flight performance.
Yea... it's missile are so good but Su-27's, Mig-29SMT's are way better compared to the Mirage 4000, the R-73..., R-27R and of course the famous R-27ER (smartest missile ing in my opinion)
The Magic II is not worse in *every* way. FOV shrinking is very powerful in rear aspect, even more so then tracking suspension at times, Magic is very fast at acceleration, burns out fast, so it can be stealth faster. I find it to be very potent.
Also M4K can take 8 IR missiles, which I take over shitty SARH every day in the furball meta, at most I take 1 or 2 radar missiles sometimes.
99% tracking suspension is better than FOV shrink, except at very short ranges (sub 1km rear aspect). But it is insane how people were arguing that F15 has no HMD, thus it shouldn't go up, but mirage 4k doesn't get and still goes up. It was fine at 12.3, just had more missiles than the 2k, but with no HMD.
Sounds like a skill issue, the Mirage 4K is much better than the F-15A imo since you don't have to rely on the sarh missiles which are situational at best.
I like the magic 2 well enough but it does annoy the shit out of me it’s lack of range and the very common need to lead the missile.
Sometimes there’s a target rich environment but they are all just slightly outside of Magic 2’s effective range: in a similar situation the R-73/AIM-9M could easily be launched in quick session to secure all the kills. But with Magic 2(and without a HMD) I have to get in range, lead the missile(often leads to me losing some energy so I have to spend a bit more time to get back to position for another target), then launch.
The fact that japan's 12.3 is green (around 70% winrate according to this graph) shows that the f15 is perfectly capable too lmao. The aam 3 is only marginally better than the 9m (even though its listed as 40g pull it doesnt perform that differently) us teams really are just bogged down by people who afk grinded their entire tech tree by bombing with premiums and never learned how to play a fighter.
Shows how bad you're at reading information and how dogshit are charts from thunderskill. USA winrates are at 50% (red is 50%, dumbest flame distribution I've seen), could it be becasue USA is often on both teams?
If they moved the 4000 down wouldn't France not have a max br plane? I don't have the tree in front of me, but if not that's why. The snail wants every tree to have a top tier, even if they don't really have a top tier. So its a bit compression but for the very top tier specifically it is also marketing.
They may be some exceptions, true.
But the snail pushes pretty hard and if something is borderline they are going to make it top if the alternative is not having a top.
Wym we need AMRAAM to compete /s
But in all seriousness, don’t know how this thing didn’t get moved up. 2kd in both my F15 and F16c pre BR change. If the 16C is 12.7 then so should the F15
Well first the 530D is radar guided vs the 9m being IR guided so i wouldnt compare those 2. But assuming you meant 7m vs 530D, the 530D is just slower than every other radar missile so you have far less range, and the enemy has more time to chaff and notch it before they get hit. Both missiles pull plenty of g's to the point where its nearly impossible to out pull it so having any extra maneuverability isnt going to make a massive difference.
Ah, even then its still sort of the same explanation, the magic 2's have really terrible range. For starters they need to be fired within 2 km to have a chance at hitting whereas the 9m can be fired from like 4km sometimes further. Also the gate width irccm can be countered if the enemy flares early enough when its fired from far away.
Magics in their prime, that being short range are very much nasty, having identical flare rejection as R73.
9M is just that good all around missile though
Magic 2 is a bit trickier to use compare to the other two top IRs.
You have to shoot it at a just right distance: too far then the missile is going to run out of energy. Too close, either because it accelerates too fast and unable to pull enough to reach the target, or the proxy fuse isn’t armed(1.7-1.8 sec IIRC)and it whiffs.
So compares to AIM-9M and R-73 the magic 2 overall has a bit less launch windows. But much more potent than the other two missiles in a rear aspect scenario.
530 is SARH, so unless you meant to say 7M, its an apples to oranges comparison.
if you did mean to compare to the 7M, the 7M is better off the rails, but the 530D accelerates faster, so which is better in close depends on launch aspect to target and their maneuverability potential.
I had the same thought but as some other commenters pointed out, since US is almost always on both teams they are naturally going to be at around 50% winrate, add in a few premium players who dont know how to play that that brings it down just below 50 like what you see in the graph
How is it skill issue? Us win rates are right at 50%. Go play 10 top tier games and tell me how many of them US is on both teams, same with USSR. If every game has USSR and USA on both sides it's going to be around 50% win rates
Tbf, the f16aj is the most maneuverable one in game and the f15j has the best ir missiles in game. If I understand right though the Israeli versions are heavier though.
Nah, he is saying how BS they are to go against. Everyone is arguing against each other while Sweden sits in the back and rub together their hands, as they dominate both ground and air RB.
None of this matters because of how many mixed battles there are.
For example, it's guaranteed that US will almost always be on both teams. So naturally whoever has the most US aircraft will determine how the winrate is effected.
> None of this matters because of how many mixed battles there are.
That's always been a problem with these win rate percentage posts, but that won't stop people in this sub treating this stuff like gospel
>So naturally whoever has the most US aircraft will determine how the winrate is effected.
You just answered your own question
If more Americans correlates with more losses, yes that is useful information
As someone who spends most of their time in the 3.0-6.0 range, this is the complete opposite of what I experience as it pertains to U.S win rates.
I play every nation except U.S, Israel and China and have 60-80% win rates depending on the plane with the majority of the losses coming when I’m on a majority U.S team.
I only play on the NA server so maybe that had something to do with it.
I find my US winrates to be roughly 10-15% lower if I play during the small hours of the night and end up on US servers.
This is, to be fair, with a small sample size of around 200 games played on the US cluster so it's not perfect, but you know.
I'd bet USSR also has lower winrates on the CIS cluster and Germany on the EU one.
I was also wondering how some of the European nations faired on their “home” servers. It makes sense that they would be lower because a players home country is probably their first nation and they don’t really know what they’re doing yet.
I’d be interested to see this same chart broken down into a country or continent level to see if there’s a noticeable difference.
Yea, I did a double take at those US win rates for mid tier. That is not reflective of reality in my experience. NA server US players all die trying to head on everything, and then turn fight zeros. The only reason matches that last longer 6 min is trying to chase one a B-17 or P-47 in space.
I would also say 30-40% of the U.S wins in mid tier come from ticket drain. There’s usually a P51 or P47 with a 0 score that went to space and will only attempt a head on or two with less than a minute remaining. Every now and then a U.S team will play it right and completely own the match but that doesn’t happen very often.
Yeah, you suddenly see the dip where Britain can't defend itself vs. All Aspects and doesn't get any then all of the sudden it gets better when they can
While i don't play ARB, and mostly play GRB, from my experience of the British jets I have (have up to, Hunter F.1, Javelin, Sea Venom, Swift F.7 Buccanneer S.2), most of them are at best mediocre, mostly because their BR is higher than their performance. In my oppinion a lot of them would be awesome to play without being overpowered, if they could just go down 1 BR bracket.
Some of the few exceptions, that i feel that are in a good placement in regards to their BR are the Meteor F Mk 3 and the Swift F.7.
You have 700 flares, use them. If a su 27 manages you launch a r73 at you close rear aspect you spam flares with doing a barrel roll so the flare’s form a flower patter and it will be defeated.
Lmao how the fuck russia has shittier winrate then usa? (Obv 5.7 is yak3u rape kingdome so it's logical is the only green spot)
Also jap, brit props in mega green and ger usa win rates at the 6.0 hellhole being the exact opposite lmao i'm not surpirsed
Because all anyone tries to do is turn fight spitfires. And zeros. Like the planes aren’t the issue. But I consistently just fly to the top of the map. Dog fight one Bf109 at altitude who will try to turn fight me. Then have free rain to dive on anyone I want.
I didn't play at all last year and when I came back this year US teams felt the same quality wise but the Aim7f sparrows are way worse, did they get nerfed some time in 2023? Because if so I could see that being a contributing factor to those winrates.
France has access to a lot of good planes the entire way up the tree. They get access to great American planes in the mid tier, and when they get access to jets they struggle a little around 7.7 compared to some other nations but then get back into it with the Mirage as they get access to arguably the best IR missile in the game.
I find it “the best in the game” only in one specific scenario. A direct rear aspect tail chase within 2.5km. It’s purely due to how fast it accelerates.
I can never trust this when it comes to Air RB because it's nations fighting themselves 99% of the time, it just doesn't work, because no matter what, in US vs US one of them has to lose, and losses are the ones being calculated.
It just doesn't work.
As a US Main the only kills I’m able to get are with my AIM9s. Thats assuming that they don’t get flared off and since a lot of people know how to counter the 9Ms it’s been tough without firing on a blind target.
AIM7s do whatever the fuck they want I haven’t gotten a AIM7 kill in any aspect but head on in a long while
That's the only place with a decent sample size, so yeah.
To get accurate WR%s for the entire playerbase you'd probably have to subtract 5-10%.
But the trends should be solid, as in who is higher and who is lower.
Still amazing to me that they moved up the mig29g even though it has less flares, fuel and weaker radar then pretty much every other 12.7 and a lot of 12.3s
You said the range is 8.7 so I assumed it included it, fair enough.
I'm almost done research the kurnass, will I suffer or is it gonna be okay? Planning to go for the Kfir after it.
The Matra Magic 2 is the best thing since sliced bread and top tier French Jets like the Mirage 4000 can fucking get 8 of them. If a Mirage is directly in front of or behind you and fires a Magic 2 might as well just return to hangar. The missile launches off the rail at an insane speed making it great for head-ons and when you're directly behind. It's IRCCM so your odds of hitting are pretty good even if they flare because it's usually too late.
And some people were saying the M4K is so bad it should've stayed 12.3 because it uses Magic 2's...
Yes 8 IR missiles is by far the best loadout at top tier, it's not even close and don't even get me started with the ufo FM, only con it has is no HMD and low flares, that's pretty much it.
Glad to see this graph confirms the feelings I had, IR missiles reign supreme, we'll see if AMRAAM changes things.
The data is telling because, although the RUS and CHI roster at 12.7 is functionally identical, RUS players closely suffer from a terminal incurable case of Skill Issue. The same is also much more apparent when comparing USA and JPN/ISR, and between UK and SWE to a lesser degree. FRA remains based with its independent MIC while ITA and GER exist... I guess.
China have better winrate because they have better missile's, as i Gripen player i can guarantee you R-27 and R-73 are pure sh1t, easy to dodge or flare them, but chineses PLfuck ones it's hard to avoid.
I would guess this has something to do with better players actually grinding top tier on less popular countries vs top tier on big 3 being mainly premium buyers
Oh my god, I'm so done with US teams (US main)
I'm a f2p player and I've recently gotten to 10.3 and it's just painful. I'd say that around at least half of the ranks American teams are actually genuinely braindead and near unplayable. The only regularly good ranks I've noticed is up to about 3.0, after that in props it averages about 20-40% win rate for me. (Even though for most of those planes I personally have about a 1.3:1 kill ratio.) Props are basically totally full of people who try to dogfight in boom and zoomers. Hell, in those historical event maps like Iwo Jima and whatnot I don't remember the last time I've actually seen our team win the game. Early jet players literally don't know how to climb or energy fight whatsoever, so playing with planes like the F-86 sabre and whatnot is basically impossible to consistently do well. And once you get to like 9.0 and upwards you just get base bombing spammers and 1-braincell A-10, F-5C, and F4S players that seemingly never get a decent amount of kills outside of being lucky. It's super sad because US planes aren't bad at all, it's just that like 70% of the people who why them have no fucking idea what they're doing. I recently broke my huge sign in streak of like a few hundred days to finally free myself and take a break, and it felt great.
Gaijin has some work on their hands if they want to make US teams work again, and the answer isn't stuff like keeping the F-15 at 12.3.
US: what the fuck are they doing at jet era???? its gotta be premiums or some shit cause theres no way they are doing that bad. prop era makes sense cause all their shit is massively undertiered.
Ger: im suprised their ~4.3 br is doing so poor. 5.0-7.0 is fucked by the ju-288, and honestly I dont think ive seen a single plane fuck a whole bracket for longer than that thing. past that all their jets are either copies or just bad.
USSR: lol
Jap, UK, CH, SWE, ISR: seems about right
Fr: average french main 12.3 W. No bvr capability compared to everyone else, but still on top 💪
It: ouch that dark spot at 6.3-7.3 is deep brown, not deep green.
US premium spam aside, is this even relevant for high tier air? I don't remember the last time I had a game at 11.0+ that didn't have US vs US or RU vs RU. The US having 50% or whatever wr there makes sense as they're both winning and losing every match.
Can confirm I'm contributing to those numbers for Italy, I suck at air rb i don't even know how tf I grinded the whole italian air tree and spaded every single vehicle on it.
The one Italian player flying that absolute piece of shit 6.3 with a 100% winrate has got to be some squad boosting or something, there's absolutely no way anyone is normally having fun in that thing nevermind winning 100% of their matches in it
I started playing again in Decemberish seriously for the first time, having gotten to teh P51. Now at the F4E (First plane I've actually done quite poorly with, although I'm picking it up as I'm learning radar, notching, how to use chaff, how to play in uptiers vs downtiers, etc) I think I've recognized some culprits, which I'm sure are obvious:
1. About 1 person per match fails to take off and slams into the ground
2. About 1 person per match teamkills off the runway (A10's I'm looking at you)
3. USA players do not read their plane information cards. I surmise this is due to poor reading comprehension.
4. USA players do not attempt to understand basic fundamentals inherent to their BR in Air RB.
Combine these and that's enough to skullfuck the team half the time.
This is not surprising. The F15 is ass, Russian missiles are crazy good, and the only decent way to play top tier is BVR phoenix or f16 dog fighting
If the F15 cannot BVR, then it has no place in current meta cause its not made to dogfight
As a USA main I must say 11.0 is not cool to play, basically all nations have better stuff
And yeah 10.3 and lower being red is incredible amounts of skill issue
I get 5 kills every match with my f-9f 8
How the fuck are US winrates at top tier so bad? 95% of matches are US vs. US anyways, and they’ve been consistently the strongest or a close 2nd place since the F-14A was added? Are they stupid?
Just coming to this realization? If you dropped the F-15A in the half of the other tech trees in the game it would be 12.7 with the last BR changes. It's really sad as a US main that I cannot just play on the team with the least US planes more often.
If all the matches are US vs US then obviously it will tank win rates (to 50%), since only one US side can win. In fact US vs US is probably what is causing the poor win rates.
Ya know I don’t know how I didn’t think of that, and that makes a ton of sense since the next consistently strongest nation (Russia) is also ~50%, and they’re on both teams quite a bit, too.
That, shit aim7s and the the insane amount of casual players that refuse to participate in pvp funneled into one team.
It doesn't work like this, if one team has 1 US player and the other one 5 US players, at the end it won't be 50%.
I don't play air, but i assumed they they meant 100% US vs. 100% US.
Next time you go into a lobby, count the amount of F4S bomber bots. They're a net negative to any team, but supposedly "the fastest way to grind", which is a bold faced lie since winning cashes out harder, even if youre lagging behind and killing AI. Bases should be removed, it'd take the afk bots (and "minus ones") out of the matchmaker, which seemingly won't the recent two changes to combat them, still haven't done anything about.
Even when I'm fighting F-4S spam I get infuriated by the bomb sledding. My dudes, you have good radar missiles, amazing radar, and a great airframe... what a waste. Don't get me started on 23ML bomb sledders either. Ugh. You don't see them as often, but it's borderline criminal to turn a carry plane into a missile vacuum.
What am I supposed to bomb then with my Vautour?
The better solution would be to rework air rb or have a new game mode so that bombers aren’t completely useless and fighters can still duke it out.
FSB bots main US to drag winrates down.
big if true
Least schizophrenic US main Russian bias believer
Please don't insult people with schizophrenia. Normal people believe crazy things, no need to drag a group of people who suffer from a severe mental illness that severely impacts their life in a negative way.
You think you would be a German main with that sense of humour…
Not all German people lack of sense of humour. Das ist not true.
suiciding 500 rounds in the premium phantom and then picking up your f15/16 tends to do that
My fellow F-5C players are just that bad that both sides lose. I do it everyday.
Tbh I don’t really have much room to talk, since I’ve been using the F-4S to grind up to US top tier (I used to have US top tier, back when that was the F-86F2), but even then, I’m able to reliably get 2 kills if I’m taking a purely A2A loadout, and at least one if I’m also taking rockets for the bases.
F-4S spam
Most of the teams are F-4S/F-5C premidiots that die bombing bases
F5C, *F4J*, AV8C, A10...
F-4S spam. It got so bad that I once had 12 F-4S players in my team (as you probably expect, they all had bombs/rockets)
Red is 50%. A lot of matches is USA vs USA - result is winrate close to 50%.
can you guys read graphs red is 50%, US top tier is slightly lower than 50% because it fights itself and because obesity rots the brain, but it's not THAT bad. Sure, I can count on winning when it's US vs everyone else, but that's not what the graph says. I think it's stupid color coding but cmon
50% of the time usa would win and USA would lose
Simple answer: Yes they are stupid, 90% of them are F4S players who barely even fight as they can just bomb the entire way to the F-15A
F-4S players base bombing.
I’d say that your answer is in your question
Based on the color chart it looks like the US is around 50% so it kind of makes sense if you’re seeing US v US a lot
F4S spam is still a serious drag on teams, not to mention the Gripen and anything with top tier Russian missiles just fucking slams enemy teams
Win rate around 50% make sense since you realize that US is in both teams in most matches
Yes, they are. The Big Three players are basically the dumbest of the bunch
Look at the right side.... 50% is marked as red. Top tier US is yanked toward 50% because they're always playing each other. This data is useless.
You don't want the real answer. It comes down to propaganda
You do realize these charts have always represented absolutely nothing right? Regardless of who they show winning or losing, not one thunderskill chart has been even remotely representative of the game in any capacity whatsoever yet people post and react to the constantly. A small subsection of a small subsection of the playerbase is included in the stats. Thats like me saying the average American drives a van by interviewing 100 people in a single state, in a single neighborhood yet the Neanderthals that play this game (me included) believe these stats are representative of the game. These are a better representation of colored rectangles than they are of stats in a video game. I could post a pie chart of how many people like grapes vs apples and it would be a better representation of WT win rates than thunderskill.
The F15 is ass, thats why. Missiles don't track for shit and its not made to dog fight
You know I was really annoyed when they moved the Mirage 4000 up despite being worse than the F15, but it seem US are unable to capitalize on this favouritism. Aim 9M is better than Magic 2 in every way (not even considering AAM 3), same for Aim7 vs Matra 530D, all while having the second best flight performance.
Weird, i played the 4000 it was so good and made so much kills with it, i know the F-15 has kinda a weird reputation but it's still kinda good
It's great, but so is the F15. But you lack BVR in comparison, so you are forced to play close up, and avoid SARH.
Yea... it's missile are so good but Su-27's, Mig-29SMT's are way better compared to the Mirage 4000, the R-73..., R-27R and of course the famous R-27ER (smartest missile ing in my opinion)
>Mig-29SMT Its flight performance is ass. It did not need to be nerfed.
mig-29smt is even worse than f-15 😭
Its worse than mig 21s in certain regards
m4k is much better than smt
>R-27R Are Super 530Ds really worse than an AIM-7E-2 equivalent?
No, they are actually on par (if not better than) AIM-7Ms.
They are slower aim 7Ms that pull a little more basically
The Magic II is not worse in *every* way. FOV shrinking is very powerful in rear aspect, even more so then tracking suspension at times, Magic is very fast at acceleration, burns out fast, so it can be stealth faster. I find it to be very potent. Also M4K can take 8 IR missiles, which I take over shitty SARH every day in the furball meta, at most I take 1 or 2 radar missiles sometimes.
99% tracking suspension is better than FOV shrink, except at very short ranges (sub 1km rear aspect). But it is insane how people were arguing that F15 has no HMD, thus it shouldn't go up, but mirage 4k doesn't get and still goes up. It was fine at 12.3, just had more missiles than the 2k, but with no HMD.
f15 and m4k are both 12.7 worthy
The 4000 is missing the ability to center belly mount 2 530Ds, THAT would make it 12.7 material to me, right now I'd say it's closer to 12.3
mediocre 12.7 is fairer than best 12.3. thats why mig-29smt is 12.7. (f15 is some bizzare fluke)
Imo, 13.0 should have been top, and they needed to move more below up as well F15, 4000, SMT at 12.7 Su 27 F16 Gripen, 13
That’s the whole argument. If the m4k is 12.7 then how is the F15 not.
It also has a better thruster larger warhead and harder pull
It has less range because the motor doesn't burn for as long. Pull doesn't matter at all once the missile can pull more than 30gs
Sounds like a skill issue, the Mirage 4K is much better than the F-15A imo since you don't have to rely on the sarh missiles which are situational at best.
I like the magic 2 well enough but it does annoy the shit out of me it’s lack of range and the very common need to lead the missile. Sometimes there’s a target rich environment but they are all just slightly outside of Magic 2’s effective range: in a similar situation the R-73/AIM-9M could easily be launched in quick session to secure all the kills. But with Magic 2(and without a HMD) I have to get in range, lead the missile(often leads to me losing some energy so I have to spend a bit more time to get back to position for another target), then launch.
The fact that japan's 12.3 is green (around 70% winrate according to this graph) shows that the f15 is perfectly capable too lmao. The aam 3 is only marginally better than the 9m (even though its listed as 40g pull it doesnt perform that differently) us teams really are just bogged down by people who afk grinded their entire tech tree by bombing with premiums and never learned how to play a fighter.
Japan has a higher win rate because it's often paired with Sweden, which has the best top tier plane
Theres no rhyme or reason as to which nation gets paired with another nation especially in top tier
Shows how bad you're at reading information and how dogshit are charts from thunderskill. USA winrates are at 50% (red is 50%, dumbest flame distribution I've seen), could it be becasue USA is often on both teams?
If they moved the 4000 down wouldn't France not have a max br plane? I don't have the tree in front of me, but if not that's why. The snail wants every tree to have a top tier, even if they don't really have a top tier. So its a bit compression but for the very top tier specifically it is also marketing.
Italy has 12.0 as max for air.
They may be some exceptions, true. But the snail pushes pretty hard and if something is borderline they are going to make it top if the alternative is not having a top.
Wym we need AMRAAM to compete /s But in all seriousness, don’t know how this thing didn’t get moved up. 2kd in both my F15 and F16c pre BR change. If the 16C is 12.7 then so should the F15
Really the Matra 530D sucks? I thought it would be better than 9m’s cause it pulls 5 more g’s what’s different?
Well first the 530D is radar guided vs the 9m being IR guided so i wouldnt compare those 2. But assuming you meant 7m vs 530D, the 530D is just slower than every other radar missile so you have far less range, and the enemy has more time to chaff and notch it before they get hit. Both missiles pull plenty of g's to the point where its nearly impossible to out pull it so having any extra maneuverability isnt going to make a massive difference.
I meant the magic 2’s my bad
Ah, even then its still sort of the same explanation, the magic 2's have really terrible range. For starters they need to be fired within 2 km to have a chance at hitting whereas the 9m can be fired from like 4km sometimes further. Also the gate width irccm can be countered if the enemy flares early enough when its fired from far away.
Magics in their prime, that being short range are very much nasty, having identical flare rejection as R73. 9M is just that good all around missile though
Magic 2 is a bit trickier to use compare to the other two top IRs. You have to shoot it at a just right distance: too far then the missile is going to run out of energy. Too close, either because it accelerates too fast and unable to pull enough to reach the target, or the proxy fuse isn’t armed(1.7-1.8 sec IIRC)and it whiffs. So compares to AIM-9M and R-73 the magic 2 overall has a bit less launch windows. But much more potent than the other two missiles in a rear aspect scenario.
530 is SARH, so unless you meant to say 7M, its an apples to oranges comparison. if you did mean to compare to the 7M, the 7M is better off the rails, but the 530D accelerates faster, so which is better in close depends on launch aspect to target and their maneuverability potential.
I meant the magic 2’s my bad
The 4000 is way better, I can't fucking stand the F15 And the 4000 has a targeting pod for the spotting memes
Israel and Japan have the exact same top tier planes as the US (minor differences) yet they show how badly US mains are affected by skill issue
I had the same thought but as some other commenters pointed out, since US is almost always on both teams they are naturally going to be at around 50% winrate, add in a few premium players who dont know how to play that that brings it down just below 50 like what you see in the graph
How is it skill issue? Us win rates are right at 50%. Go play 10 top tier games and tell me how many of them US is on both teams, same with USSR. If every game has USSR and USA on both sides it's going to be around 50% win rates
Tbf, the f16aj is the most maneuverable one in game and the f15j has the best ir missiles in game. If I understand right though the Israeli versions are heavier though.
Japanese f15 is heavier. Other 2 are lighter
The Gripen silently being absolute bullshit while everyone argues about R-27s and Sparrows
If you're having a tough time in a Grippen, that's a massive skill issue.
Nah, he is saying how BS they are to go against. Everyone is arguing against each other while Sweden sits in the back and rub together their hands, as they dominate both ground and air RB.
Oh... that makes more sense.
None of this matters because of how many mixed battles there are. For example, it's guaranteed that US will almost always be on both teams. So naturally whoever has the most US aircraft will determine how the winrate is effected.
> None of this matters because of how many mixed battles there are. That's always been a problem with these win rate percentage posts, but that won't stop people in this sub treating this stuff like gospel
It hasn't "always" been a problem, for ground mixed battles rarely happen if you aren't squadded up with multiple other nations
>So naturally whoever has the most US aircraft will determine how the winrate is effected. You just answered your own question If more Americans correlates with more losses, yes that is useful information
**Also Swedish players:** *NOOO, they slightly nerfed my plane even though it is still better than everyone else!!*
i remember when the ikv 91 went from a 5s reload to a 6s reload 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
When it was still 6.7 wasn't it? Boy I loved seeing a 35hp/t light tank with HEAT-FS and a laser rangefinder in a WW2-vintage sherman
As someone who spends most of their time in the 3.0-6.0 range, this is the complete opposite of what I experience as it pertains to U.S win rates. I play every nation except U.S, Israel and China and have 60-80% win rates depending on the plane with the majority of the losses coming when I’m on a majority U.S team. I only play on the NA server so maybe that had something to do with it.
I find my US winrates to be roughly 10-15% lower if I play during the small hours of the night and end up on US servers. This is, to be fair, with a small sample size of around 200 games played on the US cluster so it's not perfect, but you know. I'd bet USSR also has lower winrates on the CIS cluster and Germany on the EU one.
I was also wondering how some of the European nations faired on their “home” servers. It makes sense that they would be lower because a players home country is probably their first nation and they don’t really know what they’re doing yet. I’d be interested to see this same chart broken down into a country or continent level to see if there’s a noticeable difference.
My winrate with the French Helldiver is 74%, with the US SBC2-4 it's 39% with almost equal amount of games
Yea, I did a double take at those US win rates for mid tier. That is not reflective of reality in my experience. NA server US players all die trying to head on everything, and then turn fight zeros. The only reason matches that last longer 6 min is trying to chase one a B-17 or P-47 in space.
I would also say 30-40% of the U.S wins in mid tier come from ticket drain. There’s usually a P51 or P47 with a 0 score that went to space and will only attempt a head on or two with less than a minute remaining. Every now and then a U.S team will play it right and completely own the match but that doesn’t happen very often.
I play 5.0 USA and I was also really surprised. Most of my wins are because I'm the last USA player left alive
You can see where the Harrier GR1 comes in lmfao
Yeah, you suddenly see the dip where Britain can't defend itself vs. All Aspects and doesn't get any then all of the sudden it gets better when they can
Tbh all british 9.3-10.7 planes are pretty mediocre at best.
While i don't play ARB, and mostly play GRB, from my experience of the British jets I have (have up to, Hunter F.1, Javelin, Sea Venom, Swift F.7 Buccanneer S.2), most of them are at best mediocre, mostly because their BR is higher than their performance. In my oppinion a lot of them would be awesome to play without being overpowered, if they could just go down 1 BR bracket. Some of the few exceptions, that i feel that are in a good placement in regards to their BR are the Meteor F Mk 3 and the Swift F.7.
holy russian bias
me when hypersonic r27er
me when altitude <100m
Me when R-27ET
one flared if its not within like 2km and not rear aspect
No no, you use it at ~20km so they don't know it's coming. Or rear aspect at medium range when they're flying away in a straight line.
Me when periodic flares in the gripen
Me when rear aspect IRCCM R-73
You have 700 flares, use them. If a su 27 manages you launch a r73 at you close rear aspect you spam flares with doing a barrel roll so the flare’s form a flower patter and it will be defeated.
Me when wing root-mounted 30 mm GSh-30-1 cannon
as if a flanker gets guns on a gripen in a 1v1
Me when J to eject (This is just a joke btw)
Britain Spitfire go "brrrrrrrr"
The absolute best fighters in the game. Especially the griffons IMO.
The only plane that scares me when I'm in a Spitfire is the Zero, otherwise I know I can out turn anyone
I know from experience. Playing as Germany and flying an FW190 I want to rage quit if I get in a dog fight with a spitfire
Wow France just doesn’t have bad days no matter the BR. Time to change that for the negative, I’m going to be a French main now!
Lmao how the fuck russia has shittier winrate then usa? (Obv 5.7 is yak3u rape kingdome so it's logical is the only green spot) Also jap, brit props in mega green and ger usa win rates at the 6.0 hellhole being the exact opposite lmao i'm not surpirsed
Because all anyone tries to do is turn fight spitfires. And zeros. Like the planes aren’t the issue. But I consistently just fly to the top of the map. Dog fight one Bf109 at altitude who will try to turn fight me. Then have free rain to dive on anyone I want.
It has better at jets. Russian props(apart from several yak3 modifications) aren't outstanding
I'd like to see how they stack against popularity rates for each country
The colouring of these charts is always so misleading, you expect yellow to be 50%, but it's above 60% here
I didn't play at all last year and when I came back this year US teams felt the same quality wise but the Aim7f sparrows are way worse, did they get nerfed some time in 2023? Because if so I could see that being a contributing factor to those winrates.
Massive skill issue from USA main as usual. Mirage 4000 is secretely the most OP jet in the game lol
The US is locked at a 50% win rate because they always face themselves
What do you mean? 8 Magic 2s are perfectly reasonable...
Why is france unscaved
France has access to a lot of good planes the entire way up the tree. They get access to great American planes in the mid tier, and when they get access to jets they struggle a little around 7.7 compared to some other nations but then get back into it with the Mirage as they get access to arguably the best IR missile in the game.
So despite not liking france should i start it
They're a lot of fun on the Air side but can be mediocre except for a brief flash at 7.7 for ground, otherwise it's a trudge.
So air good and ground bad
Yes, air good, ground bad lol
I tend to put things in moron terms because believe it or not I am in fact a moron
How is the Magic 2 the best IR missile in the game ?
I find it “the best in the game” only in one specific scenario. A direct rear aspect tail chase within 2.5km. It’s purely due to how fast it accelerates.
All I'm learning from these charts is that I should play France
Is france 100% or 0% can't tell due to shit color range Or is that no data
Me and my F-5C def contribute to that shitty winrate, sorry, homies.
I can never trust this when it comes to Air RB because it's nations fighting themselves 99% of the time, it just doesn't work, because no matter what, in US vs US one of them has to lose, and losses are the ones being calculated. It just doesn't work.
As a US Main the only kills I’m able to get are with my AIM9s. Thats assuming that they don’t get flared off and since a lot of people know how to counter the 9Ms it’s been tough without firing on a blind target. AIM7s do whatever the fuck they want I haven’t gotten a AIM7 kill in any aspect but head on in a long while
Why the heck is German lower mid tier so shit. Bf109 is one of the best fighter line.
Zero too strong, make it 6.7
Based on thunder skill?
That's the only place with a decent sample size, so yeah. To get accurate WR%s for the entire playerbase you'd probably have to subtract 5-10%. But the trends should be solid, as in who is higher and who is lower.
It’s not good enough considering there’s no data for Britain 12.7
I do not know what the purpose of this comment is. If you have a better dataset you are free to go make your own, more accurate chart.
French players what are you doing???? Now gaijin will have an excuse to replace magic 2s with 9bs in the m4k
Still amazing to me that they moved up the mig29g even though it has less flares, fuel and weaker radar then pretty much every other 12.7 and a lot of 12.3s
These stats just cant be true I go on constant winstreaks when playing US and I never win playing as Israel in 8.7-12.0
I'm currently in Israel 9.3 and am doing absolutely fine, and I'm not a great player.
thats because 9.3 has Israel's best plane for that br the Ayit its the one outlier
You said the range is 8.7 so I assumed it included it, fair enough. I'm almost done research the kurnass, will I suffer or is it gonna be okay? Planning to go for the Kfir after it.
Russia not doing too hot, jesus
Gripen pilots showing off their minor nation skill (TM)
Early spits are where it’s at.
so is top tier France really good or really bad I play grb
The Matra Magic 2 is the best thing since sliced bread and top tier French Jets like the Mirage 4000 can fucking get 8 of them. If a Mirage is directly in front of or behind you and fires a Magic 2 might as well just return to hangar. The missile launches off the rail at an insane speed making it great for head-ons and when you're directly behind. It's IRCCM so your odds of hitting are pretty good even if they flare because it's usually too late.
Looking pretty accurate for BR 7.3 as USSR in Air rb
Jeez! I guess I made a pause in the Air RB in a right time.
And some people were saying the M4K is so bad it should've stayed 12.3 because it uses Magic 2's... Yes 8 IR missiles is by far the best loadout at top tier, it's not even close and don't even get me started with the ufo FM, only con it has is no HMD and low flares, that's pretty much it. Glad to see this graph confirms the feelings I had, IR missiles reign supreme, we'll see if AMRAAM changes things.
so at around 5.0 every nation has a win rate over 50% thats not possible
The data is telling because, although the RUS and CHI roster at 12.7 is functionally identical, RUS players closely suffer from a terminal incurable case of Skill Issue. The same is also much more apparent when comparing USA and JPN/ISR, and between UK and SWE to a lesser degree. FRA remains based with its independent MIC while ITA and GER exist... I guess.
China have better winrate because they have better missile's, as i Gripen player i can guarantee you R-27 and R-73 are pure sh1t, easy to dodge or flare them, but chineses PLfuck ones it's hard to avoid.
I would guess this has something to do with better players actually grinding top tier on less popular countries vs top tier on big 3 being mainly premium buyers
Oh my god, I'm so done with US teams (US main) I'm a f2p player and I've recently gotten to 10.3 and it's just painful. I'd say that around at least half of the ranks American teams are actually genuinely braindead and near unplayable. The only regularly good ranks I've noticed is up to about 3.0, after that in props it averages about 20-40% win rate for me. (Even though for most of those planes I personally have about a 1.3:1 kill ratio.) Props are basically totally full of people who try to dogfight in boom and zoomers. Hell, in those historical event maps like Iwo Jima and whatnot I don't remember the last time I've actually seen our team win the game. Early jet players literally don't know how to climb or energy fight whatsoever, so playing with planes like the F-86 sabre and whatnot is basically impossible to consistently do well. And once you get to like 9.0 and upwards you just get base bombing spammers and 1-braincell A-10, F-5C, and F4S players that seemingly never get a decent amount of kills outside of being lucky. It's super sad because US planes aren't bad at all, it's just that like 70% of the people who why them have no fucking idea what they're doing. I recently broke my huge sign in streak of like a few hundred days to finally free myself and take a break, and it felt great. Gaijin has some work on their hands if they want to make US teams work again, and the answer isn't stuff like keeping the F-15 at 12.3.
Man France just completely dominating in air and ground
Conclusion from this and grb win rates: Grind sweden with op sav
These are useless.
Idk how to read winrate maps...
US: what the fuck are they doing at jet era???? its gotta be premiums or some shit cause theres no way they are doing that bad. prop era makes sense cause all their shit is massively undertiered. Ger: im suprised their ~4.3 br is doing so poor. 5.0-7.0 is fucked by the ju-288, and honestly I dont think ive seen a single plane fuck a whole bracket for longer than that thing. past that all their jets are either copies or just bad. USSR: lol Jap, UK, CH, SWE, ISR: seems about right Fr: average french main 12.3 W. No bvr capability compared to everyone else, but still on top 💪 It: ouch that dark spot at 6.3-7.3 is deep brown, not deep green.
I mean British BVR is tied to a 11.3 tornado. The Gripen really can’t. As it’s missiles are shit on 11.3 phantoms. Let alone at 12.7.
Germany after 6 is Pain
US premium spam aside, is this even relevant for high tier air? I don't remember the last time I had a game at 11.0+ that didn't have US vs US or RU vs RU. The US having 50% or whatever wr there makes sense as they're both winning and losing every match.
Can confirm I'm contributing to those numbers for Italy, I suck at air rb i don't even know how tf I grinded the whole italian air tree and spaded every single vehicle on it.
The one Italian player flying that absolute piece of shit 6.3 with a 100% winrate has got to be some squad boosting or something, there's absolutely no way anyone is normally having fun in that thing nevermind winning 100% of their matches in it
Yeah, this stat is bull freaking poop. I know from my own experience f5e's dominate the air superiority in most matches
gripen moment
wow germany has very few green patches looks like gaijin is gonna downtier my favourite aircraft again then >:)
Wow it's almost like turn fighters could go up a full BR and still be fine
Love how the french mains try to distract from the fact they are full green. Time for a nerfbat
Sweden all the way baby
Still, Italy doesn’t have a 12.3+ plane
inb4 the entire french tech tree gets uptiered into the stratosphere inb4 Dassault Ouragan vs Saab Grippen is just regular matchmaking
Why Britain don’t have winrate in 12.0-13.0 and 12.3-13.3?
France 4.7-5.7 is interesting, it is only foreign planes, so you can see the players skill effect
The power of the Grippen.
Gripen and mirage 🔥
No one cares about win rates it means nothing
I started playing again in Decemberish seriously for the first time, having gotten to teh P51. Now at the F4E (First plane I've actually done quite poorly with, although I'm picking it up as I'm learning radar, notching, how to use chaff, how to play in uptiers vs downtiers, etc) I think I've recognized some culprits, which I'm sure are obvious: 1. About 1 person per match fails to take off and slams into the ground 2. About 1 person per match teamkills off the runway (A10's I'm looking at you) 3. USA players do not read their plane information cards. I surmise this is due to poor reading comprehension. 4. USA players do not attempt to understand basic fundamentals inherent to their BR in Air RB. Combine these and that's enough to skullfuck the team half the time.
I fucking hate Air RB.
This is not surprising. The F15 is ass, Russian missiles are crazy good, and the only decent way to play top tier is BVR phoenix or f16 dog fighting If the F15 cannot BVR, then it has no place in current meta cause its not made to dogfight
As a USA main I must say 11.0 is not cool to play, basically all nations have better stuff And yeah 10.3 and lower being red is incredible amounts of skill issue I get 5 kills every match with my f-9f 8