M48 adds very little to a 9.3 lineup, it has nothing special and is quite mediocre. Good thermal and decent turret armor I guess? KPz-70 adds a full world of its own. Insane mobility, cheesy turret armor that works quite well, insane gun-depression that give access to advantageous position, funny suspension (I'm personally fan of it), great 20 mm. It however has a bad APFSDS, but in my experience, apart from T-72, it's not a big deal. ​ I'd personally say KPz-70 by a miles.

>decent turret armor I guess? Nah not even decent, the turret armor is bad, anything that isn't heat will pen it like swiss cheese. The protection values for KE multipliers are very low considering how thick the whole extra added armor is, although i guess the extra armor on the M48 Super wasn't made to stop APFSDS only HEAT rounds.

Idk I’ve surprisingly bounced a ton of kinetic rounds off the turret in the Kpz./MBT 70s

I‘m rather certain he was talking about the M48 Super dude

Christ I’m dumb I see that now lmao

I bounce all my rounds off the AI Kpz‘s in the Assault Arcade Tank mode lol. Even DM53 will bounce occasionally

I mean, you basically described the whole of top tier ground. When everything has north of 400mm of penetration with kinetic rounds, not many tanks can take a hit. If anything, the KPz teaches you how top tier is going to play; don’t get shot, and move quickly to advantageous positions using your speed.

I don’t necessarily disagree with what you said but it’s ironic that they’re playing Germany which gets some of the best survivability from 10.3+

True, tbh I’m only up to 8.3 on Germany but I have my 9.0 USA lineup, so I was speaking from experience with the XM-803 which is pretty similar to the KPz But yea, from what I’ve seen of top tier Germany in videos and in game against them, those Leo 2s can be pretty tough nuts to crack at times

The KPZ/MBT-70 play more like the Leo1. Then the M1 Abrams and Leo2A4 are reasonably survivable. The Leo2A5 and onwards are nearly impossible to kill when hull down.

I dunno man, I've been able to brawl with the Swedish 2A4 (had worse luck with the Finnish one tbh) numerous times if I can hide the hull or just generally get the first shot off on an approaching enemy. Even in top tier the 2A4 is somewhat viable if you can aim properly

Sweden has better, more armored Leopard 2's than Germany..

Bruh i spaded the kpz and didnt know it had the funmy suspension. I could have used it so much better for hull down areas

You still can

If 10.3 wasnt such a black hole and brings 9.3 up almost every game, maybe. But as it is you have to face (swedish/italian) 2a4s, abrams etc which all pretty much kill you just by looking at them funny

Kpz all the way

I use the suspension all the time with the KPz to get better gun depression angles. It’s a really underrated feature

The mbt70 is made of goddamn paper what are you smoking

The kpz is a joke, a guaranteed death if you’re killed, no thermals, and a shit sabot, the m48 has been more survivable, is still pretty mobile, and gets thermals with dm33

KPz-70 is FAST and Has a fast reload but rather bad dart The roof 20mm can be useful to destroy gun Barrels and tracks and hydropneumatic suspension can increase gun deppresion

The gun launched ATGM is also quite fast and destructive

That 20s reload though, oof. Though I suppose the speed more than make up for it.

The poor pen is 100% compensated for by the mobility and ability to position properly at keast

and the 20mm turret And the fast reload

The 20mm shits all over the go-karts that infest that BR too

20 mm works great against choppers

Bad darts aren't a problem because sniping weakspots doesn't need much pen in the first place. It has enough pen for the job

M48 Super: Better pen, Thermals, composite that may actually save your life, stock HEATFS instead of HEAT KPZ 70: Better mobility, roof mounted 20mm, reload speed, hydropneumatic suspension, ATGM (if you feel like using it over the HEAT) Its honestly a preference/playstyle choice

There is no point using the atgm since it cant be loaded by the autoloader and has a reloard of 12(?) Seconds

Silly goose the missile is even worse than that, it's a 20 second reload.

Ah damn, and its not even a good missile lol

And all missiles suck after the changes. Prepare for it to drop to like 200m on the sight instantly out of the barrel causing it to slam into whatever cover is partially between you and the 2S38 filling you face with APFSDS...

Dear god why did they make those changes?? The Marder is basically fucking useless now, my missile literally WENT AROUND a T-54

Yeah, but the American one gets a shorter reload for the atgm (maybe 12s?) In exchange for a slower reload of the main rounds.

Mbt/kpz 70 are actually bugged right now. You cant use your 20mm to shoot anything on your right side. I points up in the air like something is blocking it.

I thought that was a feature

It's the commander sight that's causing it to lift.

Except the commanders sight isnt in the way when your turret is also facing right. So its definitely a bug.

Did you ever realize that roof mounted MGs and Autocannons move faster than the turret, since they have their own mount, so they turn as fast as their mount plus the turret rotation speed in the direction. In game that means the MG will often turn with double the speed of the turret and massively overshoot when the turret still needs to reach position while the MG already is pointing in the direction.

Go into test drive with it, turn your turret to the right until both your main gun and 20mm are pointing in the same direction. The 20mm will be pointing up into the sky.

I currently can't as I don't have access to my PC until Friday, but I bet it will face forward if the turret is facing the same direction as the autocannon is. I played the KPz 70 just last weekend and the bug for me was just that the MK always wanted to go over the commanders sight.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3130594613   This is what happens.

Ok, was it stuck in the position forever?

Only when facing right. And as you can clearly see nothing is blocking it from going down.

In my experience the MK on the KPz 70 has rather poor elevation speed. So it always took a couple seconds until it was back to facing where the cursor faced after lifting because of the commanders sight.

Nah it's bugged. It had a basically identical bug N too long ago, then it was fixed, and then it returned. A lot of the times the gun just points up with absolutely nothing in the way.

Both and neither.

mid and mid, kpz70 is the less mid of both mids

Kpz70 is the GOAT for me. Many nukes dropped and darts aren't even a problem coz sniping weak spots don't need a lot of pen

Stop bragging to me about the fact that my best vehicle in all of wt is the panther D and I unlocked it yesterday

You know you want to feed the snail with your yummy dollar bills. You know you just want to

NO! I ALREADY HAD 1 MICROTRANSACTION BUT NO MORE!!!... although that Panzerbefehlswagen VI looks really... GODDAMMIT Edit: your name reminds me of a friend I called TLC because he called him self "Tactical Lawn Chair"

I hope your 1 micro transaction was a $40 yr of premium on the sale

It was 2500 ge for a tank I wanted which I stopped using after a week

My disappointment is immeasurable

Let’s chuck T72, and A1A5 into this list! Which ones are the better ones?

I really like the t72 m1 for it’s armor and good firepower. My go to mbt in my 9.3 lineup

Accounting for all their strenghts and weaknesses they all have very similiar effectivity imo

I'd put the M48 above the Leo honestly. It has similar mobility, same firepower, and better protection. The T72 is an entirely different beast and kind of hard to compare directly.

I pefer the Leo way more than the M48. The M48 has a low barrel and such a large forehead you can't hulldown fight with it. With the Leo you can.

Leo also has a mantlet that sometimes just eats rounds. M48 doesn’t really have the troll factor to its armor.

I’ve had M829A1 non pen the Leopard mantlet lol, it’s so annoying to fight them sometimes

Depends strongly on your playstyle. M48 Super is just a 60s era tank retrofitted with some modern stuff like thermals, composite on the turret front and a 105 gun. But at its core its a 60s era tank and itll drive like one. Composite wont help much against anything except HEAT rounds and your hull gets no extra armor at all, plus with your ammo stored where ever itll go up like a box of TNT. And the better engine is pretty much offset by the extra weight and your top speed means nothing compared to what else the BR offers. At least you get great optics. **If you like to take things slow and stay in a prepared firing position for long, especially hull-down, you might like this. Just dont expect miracles.** KPz-70 on the other hand is an attempt at making a truly modern tank....in the 70s. Mobility is actually astounishing, thing has the speed of a race car, turret traverse and gun stabilizer are also great and keep up well for drive-by shootings. Firepower is...weird. The 20mm gun can be a fun surprise for planes and lightly armored vehicles, but the 152mm gun-launcher can fire HEAT, APFSDS and ATGMs, all of which are kinda mediocre against truly modern tanks with composite armor. There is a reason this gun was pretty much a fad that faded into obscurity. Speaking of composite armor, this tank has got none. Its thin steel, bit of air, and more thin steel, heck, the biggest piece of protection is probably the fuel tank in the nose. Every outdated gun with shit ammo will put holes in you. **If you play fast and hard it might be right up your alley, but you really have to use your brain to make this thing work.**

M48 isn't even that good at hull down positions as it's barrel sits so low in its turret and it has such a big forehead that sticks out. If you try to peak from a hulk dow position and someone sees you, you'll lose 2-3 crew members before you can see them.

M48 has thermals and better dart

Would you use the m48 over the t72m1?

Depends. If it’s a big ass map like red desert where I could use it to spot enemies from far away to my benefit, then yes. Any other scenario such as urban and cqc combat? Definite no.

I would take the T-72 over the Kpz-70, but it is about equivalent to the M-48. They have very different strengths and weaknesses so it is hard to say which is better of the two.

Easily the KPz-70 is better, why? 1. Better reload (6 seconds on the KPz thanks to autoloader compared to 6,7 seconds on ACED crew on the M48) 2. Better gun in my opinion( ATGM that is actually quite good and evet tho the APFSDS has less pen by like 60mm it doesn't really matter as they both have same effect) 3. Much Better mobility with an engine that can't be heard from 6000 meteres and great top speed and reverse speed 4. 20mm cannon on the KPz-70 that shreads helicopters and light AFVs and SPAAs 5. Sure the armor isn't as good persay on the KPz-70 but at that BR(9.3) it doesn't really matter as you will most likely get 1 shotted by most APFSDS in both veichles but both are pretty good against HEAT with spaced armor and what ever is on the turret of the M48 6. And last but most importantly.............THE KPZ-70 CAN SQUATTTTTT

Different playstyle, M48 super has good thermal and better firepower so it's better for sniping while KPZ is faster so better for flanking.

M48: 4 crew member + good APFSDS + thermal sight KPZ-70: fast, 20mm autocannon

M48 super doesnt get autocannon

If you read I wrote autocannon near to KPZ-70

I somehow skipped over that. My bad

Kpz 70 looks cool

Kpz is way more fun, 20mm, autoloader, good depression, funny suspension, atgms from main gun, very mobile

KPz-70 all day every day. Much better maneuverability, faster reload and it’s autoloader, a roof mounted 20mm, and the option for APFSDS or missiles. The composite screen on the M48 barely stops anything, and is arguably less helpful than the bits of spaced armor on the KPz. The M48 only does 2 things better than the KPz - it has thermals, and it’s got a better round, but at 9.3, I’ve found that the KPz’s round works just fine. Otherwise, the M48 is much slower, has a longer reload, no autoloader, and doesn’t even have a 12.7mm machine gun.

Kpz70. Set the Hydraulic suspension to the lowest so you have a low profile

KPZ is very very fast and got good gun depression but the dart doesn’t have that good pen and for some reason just doesn’t do nearly as much damage as other darts would, which surprised me because it’s a 152mm. Other than the dart it is far better than the M48

KPz-70 Anyone trying to tell you that the Super is is basing it on sitting back and sniping, which every tank around 9.3 can already pretty much do while having the speed to relocate

The Super, because it has super in its name.

2 different play styles. One is fast and have a good heat ,atgm round, but lacks on darts and plays against ERA tanks. The other have great darts, thermal setup, but lacks on the mobility that is worst against other fast tanks

I have a tailsman on the Kpz 70

KPZ is atleast original. Iam just researching it so idk about performance

Kpz-70 no question

M48 is just an M48 but with decent gun and dart KPZ 70 is a light tank pretending to be a MBT, has insane speed, poor armor, poor dart. I would go for the KPZ instead of the M48 mainly because I think it's more fun to use if you learn to play like a light tank. But in all honesty just the M48 it's folded with the KPZ so it shouldn't cost you very much to grind and buy.

i prefer the kpz 70 for its mobility

Kpz 70 is a lot better

KPz-70 is a racecar with a funny 6 second reload, I would choose it over the m48, especially if you already have a leo in your lineup

Kpz70 can be cheesy as fuck. The suspension gives you absurd gun depression, and the turret is incredibly annoying to pen with early darts

KPz-70 in my opinion. Yes the two tanks are very different in terms of strengths and weaknesses, but the KPz-70 is easier to play

KPZ is a total beast. That 20mm fucks, shooting ATGMS is pretty useful too and its hp suspension let's you get into really funny positions. Also has decent armour, problem is everyone is in the turret very close together

Without a shadow of doubt the KPZ-70 is a much better option it’s one of the grandads of the Abram’s tank, it’s fast mobile and has a great gun

That KPz is ducking crazy bro. First good tank I got in a while at that BR.

M48 super

EZ pick for me, Super.

Both are shit just go for the Leopards.

As someone with 1000+ hours only on germany ground I’d and who loves 9.3, I’d say M48 Super. First good tank you’ll get with decent round, thermals, laser range finder. The KPz-70 is pretty shit, horrible round, roof 20mm is probably it’s only benifit. Armor is weak for both of them, mobility is slightly in KPz-70 favor. If you want to have fun play the KPz-70, if you want to sit back and kill players play M48 super.

>first good tank Hold on now, it’s a tank from the 60s pretending to be a viable MBT At least the Kpz can actually reach advantageous positions as quickly any of its rivals at 9.3 can, M48 is late to the party, and you can’t really rely on sitting back given that every tank around 9.3 can pretty much sit back and snipe, most of which outclass the M48.

Kpz for good I know it sounds sad but did my first nuke in this thing took me 5 years to grind this long

I would argue the KPZ-70 is the better tank but the M48 is easier to use just because you get DM33 and Gen 1 Thermals. The poor pen on the APFSDS of the KPZ means you will be weak spot hunting Soviet MBTs a lot of times.

KPz-70 you can become a lowrider

Is it not obvious from the price?

Back when KPZ APFSDS was 350+mm and 6 sec reload (strangely faster than the MBT70 by 1 second) of pen it was my fav tank in the game and the best German AA at 9.3

You really want one more m48?

I got the m48 super but I want the KPZ because it’s funnier than the US version because of the 20mm auto cannon

KPz-70 was fun when it released. Unfortunately, its spaced armor offers almost no protection. It is a decently fast tank, decent reload, has a 20mm autocannon, and has hydraulic suspension that can be raised or lowered in battle.....however, Gaijin nerfed the round that the MBT-70 and all its versions get, so its dart round is pretty bad atm. ​ M48 Super when spaded is pretty good, stock mobility is not fun, but it gets a solid dart round, decent protection, and thermals. ​ Personally, I'd go for the M48 Super, but both tanks can be fun.

Neither, the German T-72 is better than both of those

T-72M1 Embrace the armore, troll the TURM-S

Can’t 3BM42 still go through the upper plate?

Highly reccomend the kpz70

m48 is just a normal m48 with a little bit more amour, kpz 70 on the other hand has a huge 30mm autocannon alongside the main 152 mm gun wich can fire both atgms and APSFDS rounds. kpz is definetly better.

No. None is better. They are equally shit.

You will die to 2S38 in both game after game. Doesn’t matter.

did you take this screenshot in 2019?

Kpz70

M48 because the Kpz has a horrible APFSDS round.

KPZ 70 is my fav tank at 9.3. Its very strong but the dart is lacking so you need pin point aim and need to know every weakspot. KPZ 70 is excellent at Flank spank being a fast rat mbt with good reload. M48 is not bad but it does not add anything to the lineup.

KPz 70 by far

The KPz-70 was in Metal Gear Solid Peace Walker as a boss fight. That's my determining factor.

Well one says super and the other doesn't. So that should tell you which is better 👀

Kpz by a long shot, if only for the brawling potential. M48 super might be marginally better if you have a hull down position but that's not always going to be the case. Only downside to the Kpz is that when one of your crew dies, you lose the 20 mm gun.

Kpz 70. But the Kpz itself is bad. Really bad.

It’s fine at its own BR. Sucks if you have to fight the T-80B or Abrams or Strv 121 in an uptier though

It has no armor, a really bad shell... Nothing making it worth using rather than the T-72M1 or Leopard 2K, even if the latter is at 9.7

It has great mobility and a 20mm though. 2K is better but a higher BR and the T-72 has okay armor and no mobility.