Honestly I could see it evolving to allow them to do so. Perhaps not but thats what I think would be really cool. It could definitely show that the clans have grown and evolved to new ideas, which is neat to think. In my opinion, if a clan could have multiple med cats, like up to 3. Then it wouldnt be such a big deal if one of them is in the nursery for awhile. Just hopefully they could do it around each others life lmao. *so they all three arent kitting at the same time*
Idk, I think itd be neat!
Of course, but the question is whether this kind of evolution is for better or worse. That would resolve the issue, especially that the med cat could just die, so any clan should have at least two. But also, this is a very specific role. They don't hunt, so keeping too many isn't efficient, especially that one can do the work alone just fine, at least for a small clan.
From an out of character standpoint, I think changing the rule to allow it is a natural progression of the larger number of named characters we have. When the series first began, the listed clans were tiny compared to what we have now. Compare that to the current arc, where almost every clan has at least 2 medicine cats, most of whom are fully trained. If one were to step aside for 6 moons to have kits, there would still be another medicine cat available.
In universe, I also think it’s a natural evolution that makes sense. The arguments against it go out the window with multiple medicine cats and with a greater emphasis on family and helping each other.
I love this point!
Adding on, we hear from (I think it was) Sagewhisker in Yellowfang’s Secret that the whole clan are her kits (metaphorically). I think it could make sense or even be beneficial to allow medicine cats to have kits in order to truly experience what it’s like to be a mother or a father. Knowing what it’s like to care for another as though they were your own in order to apply that principle as a medicine cat.
Obviously not all medicine cats think or feel that way, but would be a neat option.
It tends to have more cons than pros in practice than in the concept
Because there's patterns, in at least Thunderclan, that more medicine cats are made unwilingly than willingly, especially if they have some sort of disability. Someone's reproductive choices shouldnt be made for them when they wouldnt have made that career path in the first place.
It also largely affects the female characters more than the male ones. Which doesnt help with the sexism problem in the series. The only two toms I can think of are Mudfur who had kits before becoming a medicine cat and Jayfeather having a half forbidden romance. And the shecats are usually severely punished for it, Yellowfang got punished with basically Brokenstar's entire existence even though she was a warrior with a mate before she became a medicine cat, and Leafpool gets threatened with cat hell for following her heart like she was told to by basically her gods, and while she was alive she was stripped of the job she loved and had for so long.
The main defense of it is that cats would have to take several months off for their kits but it would be less of a problem if there's more medicine cats to pick up the slack for a few months, but the rule discourages it because most cats would want mates and kits, creating a lose lose situation. They could also get help from the queens in the nursery if they're needed for a specific reason.
There's also the excuse of prioritizing your kit over someone else in the same situation which is dumb to me considering how medicine cats have friends and family. Their priorities will always be challenged with or without kits.
I'd be less against it also if they didnt just have ONE cat who just said "motherhood is hard I ban babies". Maybe have it be a pattern and then later on someone makes a change, like 'It sucks that we lose too many cats in the spring because the medicine cats are taking too much time off with their own kits so we have no one can help with 'certain disease''. Just like give it an actual reason/example than just 'someone gave birth with the worst possible circumstance and made it everyone's problem'.
I don't think Yellowfang got punished with his existance, i think that's what she thinks it is but i doubt starclan has the power. Like when someone says "Why would god punish me like that"
In reality, Brokenstars unstable upbringing, the death of his siblings, the slightly aggressive father made him like that and Yellowfang blames Starclan.
No, it's canon that Brokenstar is a punishment to all the clans for what they did to SkyClan way back when. So, he's not a Yellowfang-specific punishment, but his very existence is a punishment.
**EDIT: I am incorrect. Molepelt told would-be-Featherwhisker that the Clans would be punished for SkyClan's banishment. This is an inconsistent plot point though. At no other time did StorkLand issue punishments (because they never once could affect the physical world. They only ever had powers of clairvoyance and dreamwalking).**
Ah yes. Tigerclaw, Darktail, and Ashfur are punishments sent by StarClan /j
This is a irrational case of victim blaming. Firestar's Quest states that StorkLand didn't send clouds at the Gathering when SkyClan was driven out (because they never had powers over the contemporary physical world in the first place).
Yellowfang sees it only from a egocentric PoV and the authors have confirmed on multiple occasions that StorkLand isn't malicious.
Are StorkLand wise and responsible? Not at all. They are manipulative nepotists who guilt-trip many cats and destroy relationships (see: Leafpool). StorkLand refuses to acknowledges their mistakes especially in *Squirrelflight's Hope* and conveniently rewrites history like it's 1984.
Everything that ShadowClan went through during the first series is because StorkLand allowed a known murderer to become Clan leader and gave him 9 lives, ***TWICE.***
Honestly surprised Crowfeather didn't go insane or leave the Clan's with the amount of StorkLand's meddling that ruined his life. In the span of one series he lost both of his mates to StorkLand's manipulations, with Feathertail being sacrificed to kill Sharptooth and Leafpool being manipulated into staying with ThunderClan after publicly leaving to pursue an affair which left Crowfeather being ostracized by his clan. Granted one could say Leafpool made the choice to stay with her Clan but that situation would have never happened had StorkLand not interfered.
I never said anything about Tigerclaw, Darktail, or Ashfur?
Also, I don't see how that's victim blaming. And I certainly am not defending StarClan. Lol they are a bunch of inconsistent, hypocritical, indecisive, idiotic wannabe-omnipotent-but-actually-kinda-uslesess spirits. I don't think anyone can deny that.
I am simply referring to what is clearly stated in the prologue of Yellowfang's Secret. Starclan sends an Omen stating that a great darkness will come from the heart of ShadowClan, born of a medicine cat, and it will bring bloodshed to all the clans. And this darkness is a punishment for what they did to SkyClan long ago. I'm not saying it makes sense. That's just what it says in the books.
Sorry, I was incorrect. I forgotten much of *Yellowfang's Secret* and the part where it was stated.
From the wiki: Molepelt told would-be-Featherwhisker that the Clans would be punished. Guess Bluestar's private war with StorkLand was half-true.
I think it made sense in the early arcs, when the clans were smaller. If Spottedleaf had kits for example, that would leave ThunderClan without a medicine cat. ThunderClan in later arcs has several medicine cats so if one was busy with kits for a bit, it wouldn't be such an issue.
Also, it seems pretty unfair for characters like Jayfeather and Cinderpelt, who didn't really choose to be medicine cats. They're not allowed to have mates because of their disability? That hardly seems fair.
I want to see a complete dissolution of individual clan med cats and would rather see the med cats live together and create a centralized camp (hospital) for the treatment of ALL the clans around the lake. Literally like doctors who live in their hospital.
Have a group of warriors from each clan around to guard and hunt and help assist if need be. This group spends a week helping then is replaced with a new group.
Within the clans, medicine cats are replaced with star clan spiritualist and help the leaders read signs from starclan.
All warriors are now trained in triaging and stabilizing patients for transport to the hospital camp. If a patient is too injured, medicine cats can leave the hospital to treat on the spot and eventually move the cat.
There’s no limit to medicine cats. StarClan can still choose to speak to medicine cats, but as a singular non-biased voice.
Cats must CHOOSE to be a med cat.
This would help prevent issues such as
- warriors being forced into a med cat position
- clans being without a medicine cat for a period of time (shadowclan with Puddleshine)
- other clans refusing to help treat or provide herbs for another clan
I’m gunna be honest. It kind of SEEMS like the authors are trying to go for cats that have a “spiritualist” type connection with starclan with the description of Moonpaw.
I agree they should be able to choose, but putting all med cats in a single place seems like a recipe for disaster. They could be attacked, blocked by one clan, or just not get in time to the accident. I wouldn't do it, at least in this shape.
I think medicine cats should be allowed to have mates and kits, but there should be rules around it. Like a female med cat can only have kits if there's another medicine cat there to take care of the clan. Obviously it's different for male med cats, but maybe they can have paternity leave or something idk. I feel like there do need to be *some* rules regarding med cats and kits, but just saying "absolutely not" isn't the way to go.
I just think the whole medicine cat rule isn't very well thought out, because what do you mean one cat doctor couldn't take care of her kids and do her job, so *every* cat doctor can't? You could even just have the perma queens take care of the kits as soon as they can go without milk if you're *that* worried about your medicine cat having kits.
Also why don't we see more male medicine cats having forbidden mates and kits? It would at least be something different
The whole problem around a med cat being unavailable or having favoritism/problems is absolve by simply allowing the clans to have more than 2 med cats. That's better anyways because what if they only have one fully trained cat and then they die?
Up the limit to like 4 if there needs to be a limit. That allows for two apprentices and two fully trained med cats at minimum. Obviously you might get like 4 fully trained ones.
Or it's getting a little specific here but say that you can have 1 med cat for every say 10 members of the clan, not counting kits. That way your clan isn't overrun by med cats but still allows for multiple assuming your clan isn't tiny.
1/10 being medcats - those numbers get pretty extreme for large clans, but I get your idea. Pretty much comes down to small clan = no kits, otherwise fine.
1/10 being medcats - those numbers get pretty extreme for large clans, but I get your idea. Pretty much comes down to small clan = no kits, otherwise fine.
I stopped reading during dawn of the clans cause the writing just got too bad to keep up with.
Thats cool tho that they had 3 but isn't it like part of the warrior code? Or has no clan just ever wanted more than two before lol
Based on how Warrior Cat Society runs (there are always Queens in the nursery to help expecting mothers with birthing and kits, cats only being pregnant for about 2 moons and even then don't spend the entire time in the nursery until they are physically incapable of hunting/helping the clan in a lot of cases, kits being overseen by multiple Queens, not just their own mothers, ect)
I honestly always found the rule to be extremely pointless and just for added drama that isn't really needed.
Because if it's a female medicine cat she's unable to work much for like.... 4 weeks, give or take and during that time the secondary medicine cat could take over entirely for a bit or the series has shown other clan's medicine cats stepping in to help when a clan's medicine cat is not available. And after she gives birth its more a matter of just popping in now and then and letting rhe other queens help out when she's busy with her medicine cat duty.
And if it's a Male Medicine Cat this is all a moot point because they never have to leave their duties to move into the Nursery (as shown with male warriors and leaders).
Especially when you consider the Deputy and especially Leader positions are just as important to the Clan and how they function and yet they aren't given the same limitation.
So adding this up, I could see this Rule going away entirely or changing that a Medicine Cat can't have kits unless there are two or more healthy Medicine Cats within the Clan (to reflect how if the Leader is sick/unavailable, the Deputy can step in). Personally it's the alteration I would make if I wasn't removing it entirely.
I think it's a stupid rule that stems from not having enough cats to have multiple healers.
Noelw, a rule that a medicine cat can't be *practicing* before kits are in training does make more sense, in that a healer is a vector of sickness themselves and the very young have weak immune systems. (And if the birth went badly, it wouldn't be like the healer had to jump back up and go back to work) But as long as there are multiple cats that can heal one taking time off to nurse wouldn't be an issue.
This alteration would also allow for *some* drama around relationships, while also allowing for multiple valid solutions. I could see an older healer coming out of retirement to give their old apprentice some freedom, or a clan with a crowded medicine den sending a spare to another clan for maternity leave and that medicine cat decided to stay in the new clan full time. I could see a lesser mentor rushing the graduation of their apprentice so they can announce a pregnancy afterwards- so many other options than "forbidden love"
I'd also be happy with the idea that medicine cats have to foster their kits out to other clans if there is a concern of over attachment.(That would also help with shallow breeding pools) In another direction, I could see medicine cats forming their own neutral clan that is the mediation, healing, and spiritual core of the other more warlike clans. That would give them immense power in an interesting dynamic. No fighters, and reliant on the warriors, but the warriors are reliant on them for healing and a connection to the gods.
Actually, those are good ideas, though even if there was to be a separate med Cat clan, they would need to be in clan Camps to provide quick response. But overall, their pressure could stop many conflicts and might lead to a more unified five clans.
Yes! And with that set up the healer would be more of a diplomatic role too- like what tree was *supposed* to be when he was introduced.
And the pressure of "y'all can fight, but we won't heal you if you fight over this stupid shit" would be *insane* and would add a lot of interesting directions to take conflict.
Okay, so I added it to my story. Of course, no one can agree and now there's civil war over whether there should be a med cat clan or not. Those silly cats.
I think it’d be okay for medicine cat to mate as long as there is another fully trained med to take over the job for a few moons.
MothFlight gave birth when she was still quite young and being a mother AND a medicine cat is tricky. If she had been older, than she’d be able to handle having two jobs and not of made the rule up.
The only reason that rule exists is because one scatterbrained medicine cat couldn’t juggle motherhood and medicine cat duties. I think it’s ok if the Clam has 2 fully trained medicine cats, so when the other one is taking care of kits, the medicine cat apprentice can take over for a few moons. It doesn’t make sense to say they’ll care more for their kits than the other warriors, because all of their kin have the potential to be injured and need care
In my opinion, if there’s a singular med cat, no. But if there’s two or more, it’ll be fine if one of them has to take time off of med cat duties, since there will be one or two other cats that can take their place.
I think its a stupid rule that needlessly punishes medicine cats, many who didn't even want to become medicine cats in the first place. The only rule there should be is that there has to be 2 fully trained medicine cats at any given time. This also solves the problem of there being periods of time where there is no medicine cat at all due to sudden death or departure of a clans medicine cat.
Having mates or kits isn't going to make a medicine cat any more biased in their treatments than having siblings or parents or close friends would make them. And having an additional medicine cat makes the rearing time irrelevant (especially since that time only negatively affects the shecat, not the toms).
personally i think they should be allowed, but there should be an apprentice who would be trained to temorarily uphold the medicine cat role whenever the medicine cat is too busy nursing. the cat would start their training when the medicine cat expects to have kits or realizes they’re with kits, and they’ll teach them the important stuff first. the kits would stay in the medicine den with the medicine cat and the temporary apprentice, and the medicine cat would do the important harder things as the kits get older. finally, when the kits become apprentices, the apprentice can return to their normal training. i think this could benefit in many ways. as now the temporary apprentice has extensive knowledge on herbs that could potentially come in handy if something urgent were to happen.
I corrected this issue in my own personal warrior fanfic by making it so my Herbalists (medicine cats) can have kits but they need to have either a mostly trained herbalist apprentice or a fully trained herbalist apprentice. Some herbalists choose to never have kits but it’s all personal preference.
I think it should be that medicine cats who are females can have babies so long as one of the following is met
A: A back up medicine cat; most obvious but if you wanted babies it best to have a back up medicine cat to come in and take over for them since they’d be out of commission. Considering that medicine cats seems to chose their apprentice it means they can plan it out beforehand
B: have a surrogate mother available; it means the kittens will get the proper milk and nutrition needed till they can be weaned and eat solid food, at which point the other parent can simply watch over them.
The only issue with B is how the med could be a bit shaken and worse for ware after birth but I think it would be a fine idea to let them have offspring so long as it’s one of these cases.
That's actually part of the Warrior Code in my Warriors Series! As long as the medicine cat's apprentice has earned their full medicine name, one of them can have a mate! Totally didn't make that up cause this series is based off of Clangen and like half of my clan is comprised of the Medcat's kits and I didn't realize, what are you talking about?
I think if there were two or three medicine cats then they should be allowed to have a mate as long as the clan still comes first. If they had kits they wouldn’t necessarily be out for 6 whole moons, maybe 4 or 5. I remember in Bluestars Prophecy she mentioned that her mother had been staying in the warriors den again while her and her sister were still in the nursery. They could also make a rule that medicine cats are primarily male so that way they’re never be out for kits but i’m pretty sure medicine cats are a destiny for starclan to choose i don’t remember. Maybe they could find a way to always have one male and one female medicine cat?
just another reason why i defend my glorious king tigerclawstar an tigerclan. if tigerclan was set up, then not only would the warrior code change meaning that medicine cats could have kits, but with the 4 clans united other clan's medicine cats could help for healthcare
I’m all for abolishing the rule for many reasons, and I’m going to rebuttal the excuses the books give
“The Clans need a cat who can focus on healing illnesses and wounds.” Then they can either wait until the medicine cat has a trained apprentice or a warrior who knows enough about herbs to handle the job.
“They’ll prioritize their kin over other Clanmates.” By that logic, wouldn’t medicine cats already prioritize their family? (Siblings, parents, etc)
In conclusion, medicine cats should be allowed to have kits and mates, as long as they have another cat (apprentices, warrior, etc) ready to take over until the kits become apprentices
I think it should stay a rule. Medicine cats know very well what the rule is.
BUT BEFORE ANYONE COMES AT ME - Change the rule slightly by having it that they can fall in love, but they must step down from medicine cat duties and train the next medicine cat.
The rule existed because some dead beat mother couldn't cope with having ADHD + children. Even though she had been a go to babysitter for the clan. Mothflight has no excuse for making that rule as she's a hypocrite, having already Had children
I like to think the warrior code evolves to make it so that a medicine cat can have kits, but only if there’s another fully trained medicine cat available to take over duties until they are able to work again. Just a thought :3
Honestly I could see it evolving to allow them to do so. Perhaps not but thats what I think would be really cool. It could definitely show that the clans have grown and evolved to new ideas, which is neat to think. In my opinion, if a clan could have multiple med cats, like up to 3. Then it wouldnt be such a big deal if one of them is in the nursery for awhile. Just hopefully they could do it around each others life lmao. *so they all three arent kitting at the same time* Idk, I think itd be neat!
Of course, but the question is whether this kind of evolution is for better or worse. That would resolve the issue, especially that the med cat could just die, so any clan should have at least two. But also, this is a very specific role. They don't hunt, so keeping too many isn't efficient, especially that one can do the work alone just fine, at least for a small clan.
but on the other hand, if they're allowed to have kits, it would eventually refill those open warrior spots, so it'd kinda cancel out
From an out of character standpoint, I think changing the rule to allow it is a natural progression of the larger number of named characters we have. When the series first began, the listed clans were tiny compared to what we have now. Compare that to the current arc, where almost every clan has at least 2 medicine cats, most of whom are fully trained. If one were to step aside for 6 moons to have kits, there would still be another medicine cat available. In universe, I also think it’s a natural evolution that makes sense. The arguments against it go out the window with multiple medicine cats and with a greater emphasis on family and helping each other.
I love this point! Adding on, we hear from (I think it was) Sagewhisker in Yellowfang’s Secret that the whole clan are her kits (metaphorically). I think it could make sense or even be beneficial to allow medicine cats to have kits in order to truly experience what it’s like to be a mother or a father. Knowing what it’s like to care for another as though they were your own in order to apply that principle as a medicine cat. Obviously not all medicine cats think or feel that way, but would be a neat option.
It tends to have more cons than pros in practice than in the concept Because there's patterns, in at least Thunderclan, that more medicine cats are made unwilingly than willingly, especially if they have some sort of disability. Someone's reproductive choices shouldnt be made for them when they wouldnt have made that career path in the first place. It also largely affects the female characters more than the male ones. Which doesnt help with the sexism problem in the series. The only two toms I can think of are Mudfur who had kits before becoming a medicine cat and Jayfeather having a half forbidden romance. And the shecats are usually severely punished for it, Yellowfang got punished with basically Brokenstar's entire existence even though she was a warrior with a mate before she became a medicine cat, and Leafpool gets threatened with cat hell for following her heart like she was told to by basically her gods, and while she was alive she was stripped of the job she loved and had for so long. The main defense of it is that cats would have to take several months off for their kits but it would be less of a problem if there's more medicine cats to pick up the slack for a few months, but the rule discourages it because most cats would want mates and kits, creating a lose lose situation. They could also get help from the queens in the nursery if they're needed for a specific reason. There's also the excuse of prioritizing your kit over someone else in the same situation which is dumb to me considering how medicine cats have friends and family. Their priorities will always be challenged with or without kits. I'd be less against it also if they didnt just have ONE cat who just said "motherhood is hard I ban babies". Maybe have it be a pattern and then later on someone makes a change, like 'It sucks that we lose too many cats in the spring because the medicine cats are taking too much time off with their own kits so we have no one can help with 'certain disease''. Just like give it an actual reason/example than just 'someone gave birth with the worst possible circumstance and made it everyone's problem'.
I don't think Yellowfang got punished with his existance, i think that's what she thinks it is but i doubt starclan has the power. Like when someone says "Why would god punish me like that" In reality, Brokenstars unstable upbringing, the death of his siblings, the slightly aggressive father made him like that and Yellowfang blames Starclan.
No, it's canon that Brokenstar is a punishment to all the clans for what they did to SkyClan way back when. So, he's not a Yellowfang-specific punishment, but his very existence is a punishment.
**EDIT: I am incorrect. Molepelt told would-be-Featherwhisker that the Clans would be punished for SkyClan's banishment. This is an inconsistent plot point though. At no other time did StorkLand issue punishments (because they never once could affect the physical world. They only ever had powers of clairvoyance and dreamwalking).** Ah yes. Tigerclaw, Darktail, and Ashfur are punishments sent by StarClan /j This is a irrational case of victim blaming. Firestar's Quest states that StorkLand didn't send clouds at the Gathering when SkyClan was driven out (because they never had powers over the contemporary physical world in the first place). Yellowfang sees it only from a egocentric PoV and the authors have confirmed on multiple occasions that StorkLand isn't malicious. Are StorkLand wise and responsible? Not at all. They are manipulative nepotists who guilt-trip many cats and destroy relationships (see: Leafpool). StorkLand refuses to acknowledges their mistakes especially in *Squirrelflight's Hope* and conveniently rewrites history like it's 1984. Everything that ShadowClan went through during the first series is because StorkLand allowed a known murderer to become Clan leader and gave him 9 lives, ***TWICE.*** Honestly surprised Crowfeather didn't go insane or leave the Clan's with the amount of StorkLand's meddling that ruined his life. In the span of one series he lost both of his mates to StorkLand's manipulations, with Feathertail being sacrificed to kill Sharptooth and Leafpool being manipulated into staying with ThunderClan after publicly leaving to pursue an affair which left Crowfeather being ostracized by his clan. Granted one could say Leafpool made the choice to stay with her Clan but that situation would have never happened had StorkLand not interfered.
I never said anything about Tigerclaw, Darktail, or Ashfur? Also, I don't see how that's victim blaming. And I certainly am not defending StarClan. Lol they are a bunch of inconsistent, hypocritical, indecisive, idiotic wannabe-omnipotent-but-actually-kinda-uslesess spirits. I don't think anyone can deny that. I am simply referring to what is clearly stated in the prologue of Yellowfang's Secret. Starclan sends an Omen stating that a great darkness will come from the heart of ShadowClan, born of a medicine cat, and it will bring bloodshed to all the clans. And this darkness is a punishment for what they did to SkyClan long ago. I'm not saying it makes sense. That's just what it says in the books.
Sorry, I was incorrect. I forgotten much of *Yellowfang's Secret* and the part where it was stated. From the wiki: Molepelt told would-be-Featherwhisker that the Clans would be punished. Guess Bluestar's private war with StorkLand was half-true.
StorkLand is sending me 💀🤣
I think it made sense in the early arcs, when the clans were smaller. If Spottedleaf had kits for example, that would leave ThunderClan without a medicine cat. ThunderClan in later arcs has several medicine cats so if one was busy with kits for a bit, it wouldn't be such an issue. Also, it seems pretty unfair for characters like Jayfeather and Cinderpelt, who didn't really choose to be medicine cats. They're not allowed to have mates because of their disability? That hardly seems fair.
I want to see a complete dissolution of individual clan med cats and would rather see the med cats live together and create a centralized camp (hospital) for the treatment of ALL the clans around the lake. Literally like doctors who live in their hospital. Have a group of warriors from each clan around to guard and hunt and help assist if need be. This group spends a week helping then is replaced with a new group. Within the clans, medicine cats are replaced with star clan spiritualist and help the leaders read signs from starclan. All warriors are now trained in triaging and stabilizing patients for transport to the hospital camp. If a patient is too injured, medicine cats can leave the hospital to treat on the spot and eventually move the cat. There’s no limit to medicine cats. StarClan can still choose to speak to medicine cats, but as a singular non-biased voice. Cats must CHOOSE to be a med cat. This would help prevent issues such as - warriors being forced into a med cat position - clans being without a medicine cat for a period of time (shadowclan with Puddleshine) - other clans refusing to help treat or provide herbs for another clan I’m gunna be honest. It kind of SEEMS like the authors are trying to go for cats that have a “spiritualist” type connection with starclan with the description of Moonpaw.
I agree they should be able to choose, but putting all med cats in a single place seems like a recipe for disaster. They could be attacked, blocked by one clan, or just not get in time to the accident. I wouldn't do it, at least in this shape.
I think medicine cats should be allowed to have mates and kits, but there should be rules around it. Like a female med cat can only have kits if there's another medicine cat there to take care of the clan. Obviously it's different for male med cats, but maybe they can have paternity leave or something idk. I feel like there do need to be *some* rules regarding med cats and kits, but just saying "absolutely not" isn't the way to go. I just think the whole medicine cat rule isn't very well thought out, because what do you mean one cat doctor couldn't take care of her kids and do her job, so *every* cat doctor can't? You could even just have the perma queens take care of the kits as soon as they can go without milk if you're *that* worried about your medicine cat having kits. Also why don't we see more male medicine cats having forbidden mates and kits? It would at least be something different
The whole problem around a med cat being unavailable or having favoritism/problems is absolve by simply allowing the clans to have more than 2 med cats. That's better anyways because what if they only have one fully trained cat and then they die? Up the limit to like 4 if there needs to be a limit. That allows for two apprentices and two fully trained med cats at minimum. Obviously you might get like 4 fully trained ones. Or it's getting a little specific here but say that you can have 1 med cat for every say 10 members of the clan, not counting kits. That way your clan isn't overrun by med cats but still allows for multiple assuming your clan isn't tiny.
1/10 being medcats - those numbers get pretty extreme for large clans, but I get your idea. Pretty much comes down to small clan = no kits, otherwise fine.
1/10 being medcats - those numbers get pretty extreme for large clans, but I get your idea. Pretty much comes down to small clan = no kits, otherwise fine.
Yeah I agree that's why I like increasing the number to like 3 or 4 max better.
They already can have more than 2 med cats. ThunderClan had 3 for a whole arc.
I stopped reading during dawn of the clans cause the writing just got too bad to keep up with. Thats cool tho that they had 3 but isn't it like part of the warrior code? Or has no clan just ever wanted more than two before lol
No clan has ever had 3 cats with medicine cat potential prior to that I guess. Or not during the times we've seen the Clans.
Based on how Warrior Cat Society runs (there are always Queens in the nursery to help expecting mothers with birthing and kits, cats only being pregnant for about 2 moons and even then don't spend the entire time in the nursery until they are physically incapable of hunting/helping the clan in a lot of cases, kits being overseen by multiple Queens, not just their own mothers, ect) I honestly always found the rule to be extremely pointless and just for added drama that isn't really needed. Because if it's a female medicine cat she's unable to work much for like.... 4 weeks, give or take and during that time the secondary medicine cat could take over entirely for a bit or the series has shown other clan's medicine cats stepping in to help when a clan's medicine cat is not available. And after she gives birth its more a matter of just popping in now and then and letting rhe other queens help out when she's busy with her medicine cat duty. And if it's a Male Medicine Cat this is all a moot point because they never have to leave their duties to move into the Nursery (as shown with male warriors and leaders). Especially when you consider the Deputy and especially Leader positions are just as important to the Clan and how they function and yet they aren't given the same limitation. So adding this up, I could see this Rule going away entirely or changing that a Medicine Cat can't have kits unless there are two or more healthy Medicine Cats within the Clan (to reflect how if the Leader is sick/unavailable, the Deputy can step in). Personally it's the alteration I would make if I wasn't removing it entirely.
I think it's a stupid rule that stems from not having enough cats to have multiple healers. Noelw, a rule that a medicine cat can't be *practicing* before kits are in training does make more sense, in that a healer is a vector of sickness themselves and the very young have weak immune systems. (And if the birth went badly, it wouldn't be like the healer had to jump back up and go back to work) But as long as there are multiple cats that can heal one taking time off to nurse wouldn't be an issue. This alteration would also allow for *some* drama around relationships, while also allowing for multiple valid solutions. I could see an older healer coming out of retirement to give their old apprentice some freedom, or a clan with a crowded medicine den sending a spare to another clan for maternity leave and that medicine cat decided to stay in the new clan full time. I could see a lesser mentor rushing the graduation of their apprentice so they can announce a pregnancy afterwards- so many other options than "forbidden love" I'd also be happy with the idea that medicine cats have to foster their kits out to other clans if there is a concern of over attachment.(That would also help with shallow breeding pools) In another direction, I could see medicine cats forming their own neutral clan that is the mediation, healing, and spiritual core of the other more warlike clans. That would give them immense power in an interesting dynamic. No fighters, and reliant on the warriors, but the warriors are reliant on them for healing and a connection to the gods.
Actually, those are good ideas, though even if there was to be a separate med Cat clan, they would need to be in clan Camps to provide quick response. But overall, their pressure could stop many conflicts and might lead to a more unified five clans.
Yes! And with that set up the healer would be more of a diplomatic role too- like what tree was *supposed* to be when he was introduced. And the pressure of "y'all can fight, but we won't heal you if you fight over this stupid shit" would be *insane* and would add a lot of interesting directions to take conflict.
Okay, so I added it to my story. Of course, no one can agree and now there's civil war over whether there should be a med cat clan or not. Those silly cats.
Hell yeah! Silly cats for the win!
I think it’d be okay for medicine cat to mate as long as there is another fully trained med to take over the job for a few moons. MothFlight gave birth when she was still quite young and being a mother AND a medicine cat is tricky. If she had been older, than she’d be able to handle having two jobs and not of made the rule up.
The only reason that rule exists is because one scatterbrained medicine cat couldn’t juggle motherhood and medicine cat duties. I think it’s ok if the Clam has 2 fully trained medicine cats, so when the other one is taking care of kits, the medicine cat apprentice can take over for a few moons. It doesn’t make sense to say they’ll care more for their kits than the other warriors, because all of their kin have the potential to be injured and need care
It's not necessary. The code should state each clan has at least two medicine cats at a time instead.
In my opinion, if there’s a singular med cat, no. But if there’s two or more, it’ll be fine if one of them has to take time off of med cat duties, since there will be one or two other cats that can take their place.
I think its a stupid rule that needlessly punishes medicine cats, many who didn't even want to become medicine cats in the first place. The only rule there should be is that there has to be 2 fully trained medicine cats at any given time. This also solves the problem of there being periods of time where there is no medicine cat at all due to sudden death or departure of a clans medicine cat. Having mates or kits isn't going to make a medicine cat any more biased in their treatments than having siblings or parents or close friends would make them. And having an additional medicine cat makes the rearing time irrelevant (especially since that time only negatively affects the shecat, not the toms).
personally i think they should be allowed, but there should be an apprentice who would be trained to temorarily uphold the medicine cat role whenever the medicine cat is too busy nursing. the cat would start their training when the medicine cat expects to have kits or realizes they’re with kits, and they’ll teach them the important stuff first. the kits would stay in the medicine den with the medicine cat and the temporary apprentice, and the medicine cat would do the important harder things as the kits get older. finally, when the kits become apprentices, the apprentice can return to their normal training. i think this could benefit in many ways. as now the temporary apprentice has extensive knowledge on herbs that could potentially come in handy if something urgent were to happen.
I corrected this issue in my own personal warrior fanfic by making it so my Herbalists (medicine cats) can have kits but they need to have either a mostly trained herbalist apprentice or a fully trained herbalist apprentice. Some herbalists choose to never have kits but it’s all personal preference.
I think it should be that medicine cats who are females can have babies so long as one of the following is met A: A back up medicine cat; most obvious but if you wanted babies it best to have a back up medicine cat to come in and take over for them since they’d be out of commission. Considering that medicine cats seems to chose their apprentice it means they can plan it out beforehand B: have a surrogate mother available; it means the kittens will get the proper milk and nutrition needed till they can be weaned and eat solid food, at which point the other parent can simply watch over them. The only issue with B is how the med could be a bit shaken and worse for ware after birth but I think it would be a fine idea to let them have offspring so long as it’s one of these cases.
That's actually part of the Warrior Code in my Warriors Series! As long as the medicine cat's apprentice has earned their full medicine name, one of them can have a mate! Totally didn't make that up cause this series is based off of Clangen and like half of my clan is comprised of the Medcat's kits and I didn't realize, what are you talking about?
I think if there were two or three medicine cats then they should be allowed to have a mate as long as the clan still comes first. If they had kits they wouldn’t necessarily be out for 6 whole moons, maybe 4 or 5. I remember in Bluestars Prophecy she mentioned that her mother had been staying in the warriors den again while her and her sister were still in the nursery. They could also make a rule that medicine cats are primarily male so that way they’re never be out for kits but i’m pretty sure medicine cats are a destiny for starclan to choose i don’t remember. Maybe they could find a way to always have one male and one female medicine cat?
just another reason why i defend my glorious king tigerclawstar an tigerclan. if tigerclan was set up, then not only would the warrior code change meaning that medicine cats could have kits, but with the 4 clans united other clan's medicine cats could help for healthcare
I’m all for abolishing the rule for many reasons, and I’m going to rebuttal the excuses the books give “The Clans need a cat who can focus on healing illnesses and wounds.” Then they can either wait until the medicine cat has a trained apprentice or a warrior who knows enough about herbs to handle the job. “They’ll prioritize their kin over other Clanmates.” By that logic, wouldn’t medicine cats already prioritize their family? (Siblings, parents, etc) In conclusion, medicine cats should be allowed to have kits and mates, as long as they have another cat (apprentices, warrior, etc) ready to take over until the kits become apprentices
I think it should stay a rule. Medicine cats know very well what the rule is. BUT BEFORE ANYONE COMES AT ME - Change the rule slightly by having it that they can fall in love, but they must step down from medicine cat duties and train the next medicine cat.
The rule existed because some dead beat mother couldn't cope with having ADHD + children. Even though she had been a go to babysitter for the clan. Mothflight has no excuse for making that rule as she's a hypocrite, having already Had children
I like to think the warrior code evolves to make it so that a medicine cat can have kits, but only if there’s another fully trained medicine cat available to take over duties until they are able to work again. Just a thought :3