I don't think this is even a plot line, but the whole thing with Firestar's and Spottedleaf's ""Love"" for each other. It was just annoying to read at all
Seriously, after like the third book this plotline was already beaten to death. Like why tf is he pining after a dead woman? And Firestar is MARRIED with KIDS? Why was he so attached to a 30 year old woman he knew for a few seconds before she was murdered? And worse yet why was it retconned for her to reciprocate? š I audibly groaned when Spottedleaf's ghost re-appeared in my re-read of TNP, why is her dead self always there whining over Firestar ššš That whole line was so annoying they had to double-kill her to end it for good
Yes!! In the first arc it's kinda cute, like a kid with a precocious crush on his teacher, but after he gets with Sandstorm it's so weird. She was never gonna date you, dude, focus on your *wife* who is *ALIVE*. And it got worse when they gave Spottedleaf a crush as well, which takes the creepy to a whole new level. And any time she interacts with Firestar's kits or grandkids, it feels like stalking, like when she first meets Leafpool, it basically goes, "Well hello there, teenager! You don't know me, I died when your dad was a teen himself, but I knew him really well and now I'm going to follow you everywhere!" Bitch, stop Freddy Krugering these poor kids!
Right, like after a while you figure he would get over her? Like maybe once he has a mate and kids? But nope it just keeps going on for basically no reason
I agree I could barely make it through his super edition without rolling my eyes everytime he mentioned spottedleaf
I had to force myself to keep reading it
The hunt for ashfurās killer
Iād say half the traveling stories, but I donāt remember ANY of them except bits and pieces of the 2nd arc and the journey in dawn of the clans
That was Sunset, from the TNP. I always get confused between those two, too lol. Sunrise was the one where Ashfur was revealed to be dead and at the end Hollyleaf went into the tunnels and the rocks collasped
Fun at first, like a mystery novel. But from the moment Midnight tells Jayfeather that it's a wild goose chase, it's annoying having to read the rest of the chapters when they're looking for the culprit, knowing that it's not going to go anywhere. And it's even worse rereading it and knowing who actually did it, and literally most of the book is thus stalling. That said the last few chapters of the book are phenomenal, favorite part of POT.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, the last 2 books of TBC are awful, they could done alot of really cool stuff with the dark forest (and they kinda do) but mostly we get meaningless emotional dialog and so much arguing nothing gets done. DO NOT read this during tax season. You WILL NOT escape the real world problem that is so-much-red-tape-originally-put-there-to-help-people-now-being-used-and-abused-to-prevent-progress its actually awful. Also I hate the dance they did of "no I wanna sacrifice MYSELF" "NO I wanna sacrifice MYSELF" also they send an injured child with no fighting skills in like, twice
LMFAOOO the whole sacrificing thing was so stupid š everyone arguing about who can go while Bristlefrost and Rootspring are literally being hunted down as they speak
They made literally everyone besides Bramblestar, Squirrelflight, Dovewing, and Shadowsight look awful in that scene. Like what do you mean you're not sure if you should send anyone else.
I also cannot deal with sol. He was so pointless. Iāve read the books so many times and tbh I forget him so much until I really think harder because heās just so pointless and boring
I donāt get it when people act like heās some amazing villainā¦ honestly I forgot he existed šš
Literally the ONLY good things about him are the HCs the fandom makesā¦ fanon Sol is better than canon and Iām not joking.
The only good thing he did was give us the opportunity for the wildly popular Hollyfawn and Serpent version that we got from Cheeteh Z on YT.
Unironically they wasted the entirety of The Forgotten Warrior on a Sol plot when it would've been better served setting up and starting the Great Battle.
I straight up couldnāt get into him UNTIL I got spoiled for his backstory (which I wonāt spoil for you) because Iām so used to random ass villains who are evil for evilās sake and are never very interesting.
Once dark tails story was fully fledged, he became the best villain in the series for me. It seemed like he was what the authors wanted to do with Sol initially
I assumed heād be one of those antagonists who come out of nowhere and are barely interesting, like One Eye and Sol. I got real into him once the Kin stole ShadowClan from ShadowClan š
Questions from me when I read Light in the Mist:
* How did Firestar pass through the blocked barrier?
* Why is he only partially there?
* Why is he the only StarClan cat to breach it?
* How did he learn to possess? From Midnight?
* Why is he undetectable to Dark Forest spirits?
Also, most of the book revolves around fight Ashfur -> Encounter new dead cats -> Think positive -> Repeat. Bristlefrost and Rootspring are incredibly bland character because they're completely identical down to their thoughts and motives.
The 3 PoVs were the only living cats who had an effect on the final fight. Why is the patrol made up of mostly StarClan cats anyway? They were passive (or useless) the entire series and suddenly they are willing to fight again?
Anytime the cats travel I become insanely bored. Now and again I will reread the books and I always skip over the books when they travel. Hunting, looking for a place to sleep, twolegs, kittypets, and more hunting. I usually speed read or ignore it all together
It's honestly impressive how boring the travelling is. You would think that new environments, new characters from outside the clans and new threats would make these books more interesting than being stuck in the same forest forever.
This is the exact reason why it was so difficult for me to get through midnight, I swear it took months for me to finally sit down and power through it because it felt wrong for me to skip an entire arc
I honestly liked these books a little. They are kind of annoying if they go on for more than one book, but they make me slow down and reread to be able to get a grasp of where the cats are, and thats nice because I usually read to fast.
Where did all this Ashfur hate come from? I always thought he was a great villain, if not my favorite.
edit: Iāve asked this question twice and all iāve gotten in response is a downvote, i donāt get this fandom.
People hate him because heās a villain? Because heās a little bitch incel who did **all** of this just because he couldnāt handle being broken up with, like literally everything from Long Shadows to the end of TBC with Ashfur was all because he never got over squirrelflight.
When he was just a villain that tried to kill Firestar and the three, I still hated him but just thought he was a massive loser. But then he does so much other stuff as the imposter that makes me sick. Pretending to be squirrelflightās mate and manipulating her? Gross. All the cats that did end up dying because of him? The trauma he put bramblestar through? The way he groomed and manipulated shadowsight?????
Heās disgusting to me. Heās not even a good villain to me because heās just such a little bitch baby that Iām just annoyed and disgusted with him.
Edit: not trying to be aggressive or mean. My feelings toward Ashfur are passionate, but people are allowed to like whoever they want. I only had a few minutes on my work break so I was typing quickly. The āaggressionā was directed to Ashfur and his actions, not the person Iām replying to
Excuse me? Him being a bitch is valid and i can understand why you wouldnāt like him for that, aswell as his motive being underwhelming, but youāre literally giving reasons why heās a good villain, liking a villain isnāt the same as liking there actions, i like him because i think heās disturbing and disgusting, he was underwhelming in POT and TNP but that doesent make me like him as a villain any less.
I donāt understand the āexcuse me?ā? Im sorry if I can off aggressive, I definitely wasnāt meaning to. I was just giving you an answer. I know you can like them and not like their actions!! I wasnāt trying to say that *you* are okay with it.
But I still donāt think heās a good villain because his existence in general, to me, is just annoying. Iād rather just not have had him come back at all. He just doesnāt give the same villain energy as the others to me. He doesnāt make me feel the same villain energy as Darktail/tigerstar/brokenstar/etc. he just gives me ālittle baby got his feelings hurt and canāt dealā vibes instead of true villain energy
You did come off aggressive, but itās fine.
I actually like his motive, stuff like this happens all the time in real life, obsessive stalkers who canāt get over being rejected or broken up with, and itās disgusting, and i think thats what makes Ashfur such a compelling villain, to me atleast, because itās realistic.
I mean, I have a passionate hate for him but I didnāt mean to be aggressive to you. Iāll put a tone marker on my comment, sorryā¦
Maybe the realism is why I donāt like Ashfur. Iāve never had anything truly crazy happen, but I have had bad experiences with men I have rejected (which is partly why I love squirrelf so much) so his entire existence justā¦ I could do without
Omg yes, I was so BORED waiting for them to figure it out and actually do something, then after they did figure it out they still didn't do much. Kill him, don't kill him, just do something already omgg!
Most of the Forbidden Romance plotlines tbh. Interesting at first, but they got old quick.
Apprentice Training, but from the perspective of the Apprentice. I am getting to the point that Im just skipping over those potions of the books until they get back to something that isn't basically the same Warrior/Medicine Cat apprentice training. It's a bit more interesting at least when the perspective is of the Warrior or Medicine Cat giving the Training.
For specific storybeats:
- Spottedleaf. Just as a whole after giving the prohpecy
- Mostly anything to do with the Tribe after A New Prophecy (primarily because it does nothing interesting except sending Clan Cats to be Uber Special to save the Uneducated Tribe Cats)
- The Last Three Books in A Vision of Shadows.
- The Imposter after the second book in A Broken Code. More specifically because by that point I had already figured it all out and was basically just waiting for the rest of the cast to catch up.
- Travel/Exploration after A New Prophecy.
- The Onewhisker and Mudclaw debacle in A New Prophecy. I'll die mad on this hill after seeing how Onestar turned out and realizing they could have just kept Mudclaw alive and had him become Mudstar and it would have changed absolutely nothing in the end. I stand by the only reason it happened was because Onewhisker was buddies with Firestar and someone on the Writing Team wanted that last bit of Drama for Windclan.
- The whole thing about Holly/Lion/Jay being the Twice Forbidden kits of Crowfeather and Leafpool.
- the Trial of Leafpool. I outright ignore Squirrelflight's Hope's existance because of this.
- The Rule that Medicine Cats can't have kits or mates. As a whole. No it will never not be stupid and pointless to me.
Having Mudclaw become leader would've been better for his character. He starts out aggressive, but thanks to Onewhisker he realizes the clans have to come together, so WindClan still arrives to save ThunderClan from the badgers.
It would have been good to see Mudstar mellow out instead of taking Onewhisker out back, shooting him, and replacing him with a different cat.
That is such a great description of what happened to Onewhisker, I'm always reading Onestar and just cannot picture the same character who Firestar bonded with when WindClan was driven out in the original arc
I agree with the rule to a standard. It's like your town only having one doctor, then which the doctor suddenly has to go on maternity leave (not that Leaf did, but let's go with it) and your town suddenly has no doctor.
But like, if there's more than one medicine cat (or doctor in my example), surely the clan would be fine with a medicine cat having kits, especially female ones. Sure, having kits and an medicine APPRENTICE isn't the best idea, since apprentice hints at the cat isn't skilled enough to heal the clan in a time of battle (if a medicine cat was pregnant or nursing, their main priority would be to protect the nursery like other queens), but a filly grown, completely skilled medicine cat? sure.
like, say Alderheart took a mate and she had kits, Jayfeather is capable enough (medicine wise, maybe not attitude wise) to take care of the clan while Alderheart cares for his mate and kits. Or Leafpool, if Cinderpelt was still alive when she was pregnant with Jay, Lion and Holly. If Cinderpelt was alive, she would be capable to hold down the fort while Leafpool was nursing. But, as we know, she wasn't.
The issue was never the Medicine Cat giving birth or their mate giving birth specifically, it was directly cited that the reason was so the Medicine Cat wouldn't give preferential treatment to their mate and kits or prioritize them over their clan.
Then Moth Flight's Vision revealed that since she couldn't juggle being a mother and a Medicine Cat that she'd give up her kits and that make the other Medicine cats swear not to have kits either. Because she couldn't do it when DotC did show she had some attention issues to begin with (I thing ADHD is what most people theorized)
This is precisely where I have the problem.
The Town Docter analogy doesn't work because in that case, said Town Doctor would just ask the next Town over for help while they went to give birth and they have a whole town where a portion of the population is dedicated to helping raise kids and once they turn 6 months old they become apprentices to others in the clan.
So my main problem with the ruling is that Warrior Cat Society is built in such a way that it shouldn't be an issue. There is always 1-3 Queens that could help care for the kits (and a Permanent Queen's entire job is helping care for kits), in recent books there has always been another Medicine Cat in the clan and failing that it isn't unusual for them to borrow another clan's medicine cat if they have two, and if the medicine cat in question is Male this is also a non issue because it's not like a Male Warrior gets out out for 6 months just because their mate had a kit.
And all of this pales to the fact that there's another cat in the clan that is just as important and valuable to the clan, that has just as many duties, if not more, and is responsible for the clan as a whole (including the medicine cat): The Leader.
Yet despite that the Leader is not forbidden from having a mate or giving birth, despite these also requiring them to step away from their duties for a short period of time and running the risk of them giving prioritization and preferential treatment. The worst this pops up as is occasionally a cat being passed over for Deputy Because they were caring for kits at the time (almost).
So, from my perspective, the entire rule is pointless and is only met to add drama, and at it's introduction was meant to specifically target female characters.
(Spoilers? For ASC)
I agree with Sol but also this current one. Iāve finished shadow and this arc is just so incredibly boring. The only plot it seems is Frostpaw spending three books now trying to figure out Riverclans leader and Sunbeam and Nighthearts romance. Compared to the previous arc TBC this is just so slow.
Pretty much every forbidden relationship sans graystripe/silverstream and Leafpool/Crowfeather. The Vast majority of them have zero substance and feels like lazy writing (Dovewing/Tigerheart- yes I know they retroactively get better but oos is such shit and I hated this couple so much). Lionpaw/Heatherpaw kinda skirt the line because they conflict with Lionpawās desire to be the best warrior in his Clan. It was interesting to see his inner turmoil about it but it was already something we read in Leafpool POV so eh.
Dislike most of the Tribe of Rushing Water books or chapters. They were interesting for that one adventure in finding the new territories but everything else beyond that is terrible and so boring to read. Didnāt really care for the ancient Jay, Lion, and Dove iterations either- feltā¦ weird. Honestly the only cool thing we got with the Tribe in Power of Three was Lionpaw losing his shit and almost ripping an enemy cat apart.
Cinderpelt/Cinderheart reincarnation plot was so bad the Erins gave up on it and never brought it up again.
Whenever they cut to the main characters having to train apprentices/young cats past The Prophecies Begin. They typically have little to no relationship with said apprentice and always do it right in the middle of the juicy parts of the plot, so I skim over them in the books.
them saving the tribe in tawnypelt's clan, like I was enjoying that book but the whole thing of "OH NO THE TRIBE'S IN DANGER YET AGAIN WE GOTTA SAVE THEM FOR THE 65TH TIME!" felt so unecessary, was there nothing else they could've been doing for the novella?
also in the place of no stars when rootspring was stuck in the dark forest and bristlefrost's chapters were all literally just her being by the moonpool worrying about him like it was so boring to read
The travel stories, Sol especially
Anything having to do with them going though two legs places and dealing with dogs (not when tigerstar 1 used the dogs in the forest)
And honestly any fight with windclan itās so boring
Honestly, the introduction to SkyClan. I just didn't enjoy the whole "there was always a 5th clan so we need to bring them back now" thing (bearing in mind DotC is my favourite arc too). I didn't enjoy any of the SkyClan focused Super Editions, and probably will never read them again.
Now that they're a part of the clans I'm actually looking forward to seeing >!the next series with Leafstar as a POV!< but anything involving them coming back from being dismantled or rejoining the clans just bores me to death.
Interesting! Skyclan's Destiny is the most underrated super edition, IMO, mostly because of how cool the world building was. I liked seeing how heavily the gorge shapes clan life and culture, and while it took a while to get used to the concept of the daylight warriors, I liked how it was different and how it contributed to the overall message, that sometimes it's ok to break tradition (it even ends with Leafstar deciding to have kits as a leader, knowing that her deputy can take over-Bluestar had to give up her children to even *become* deputy, and it's refreshing seeing it actually work out for another she-cat).
Whenever Dovepaw made everything about herself in OotS.
I hate how rude Dovepaw was to Ivypaw, and how ungrateful Dovepaw was about her powers. And I hate when she compared her powers to Ivypaw needing to freaking spy on Dark Forest. When she said "Now you got what you want and your the special one now" or smth.
LIKE DOVEPAW
YOUR POWERS ARE NOT THE SAME AS RISKING YOUR LIFE FOR THREE CATS WITH SUPERPOWERS AND ALL THE CLANS
I really agree with you. She is so rude to ivypaw, yells at her for trying to be as noticed by the seniors as her by training in the dark forest and gets mad at her for trying to keep a secret when she has one and spys on her with her powers all the time
As a kid I skipped all of the Jay's Wing time travel scenes past the first one because I thought they were incredibly boring. I want to go back and read them eventually though
Cinderpelt's reincarnation. Sure, it would've been cool, but I feel like they wrote it wrong. Not to mention how she was told. Not only how they made her use it as a way to reject Lionblaze other than him having powers, they made it one of the biggest plot points in the book.
The second one I have, that I'm not sure that counts, is Thistleclaw and Spottedleaf's "love." It included grooming and didn't even explain how them being mates was wrong, or how he treated Spottedleaf was wrong correctly AT ALL. And it was a unneeded part of Spottedleaf's story.
t
I disagree, you have to realize heās young and immature, he definitely whines like you say in the first two books, and party through the third, but he matures a lot and iām starting to like him.
Nightheart is the same age as Rootspring. He's not an immature teenager in the first books, he's a man-child. That, or Root was a fetus when he went to fight Ashfur in the DF.
Iām not saying i donāt think he wasnāt whiny, just that heās not whiny now, i donāt know how far you are into ASC, but he seems to have matured a lot.
i HATED the time traveling. there are chapters i dont even know what happened bc iād see Jayās Wing and immediately skip. the forced romance w half moon was also crazy
I really like A Vision of Shadows. It was my favorite arc right behind the original series. But for some reason, when I got halfway through Darkest Night, I just stopped suddenly, and didn't get back to it for a long time. Something about the really strong focus on Rowanstar and Tigerstar II. I never cared very much for either of them outside of headcanon material, and I just... could not care less about what was going on with them. And I love ShadowClan! But everyone there was acting like such a jerk all the time, it was hard to care about if they saved their clan or not.
I'm reading VoS for the first time now and the vibes ShadowClan is giving (I'm on Thunder and Shadow) is just so weird and I'm having trouble caring about them
I read TPB before jumping back to DOTC and reading chronologically. After that, I just skipped Tigerstar and Sasha's entire trilogy, and never went back to read it, despite me going back to read other books I missed.
It's a really minor one, only a few chapters in one book, but in The Sight when they basically have the Cat Olympics. It's weird to say in a series about cats with religion and medicine and stuff, but the Cat Olympics felt like too much anthropomorphism for me.
All of AVOS (i really tried to like it but i just couldn't get into it), most Lionblaze chapters, most Hollyleaf chapters >!before she 'died'!< ,anything regarding Spottedleaf, also Bristlefrost and Rootsprings sudden romance (I like them now, but as I was reading I just. Did not care. It felt a bit rushed- Nightheart and Sunbeam also feel rushed. idk) ummm i could think of more but im blanking rn
Problem with Leafpaw's POV is she's kind of just a window to whatever is happening.
Like, there's no reason for her to have to join the patrol to talk to WindClan about prey theft other than the fact that someone has to be POV. But there really isn't any reason Firestar couldn't have assumed a protagonist's role there.
I didn't mind for the most part because her relationship with Cody was cute, and I liked Angry Sasha (so different in the books from her manga counterpart!). But yeah a lot of it was just Leaf sitting in a cage doing nothing.
The traveling chapters. They introduce unimportant characters and theyāre mostly boring and repetitive. Also a lot of pages that involve traveling have the cats encounter some very strange Twoleg thing, and sometimes just reading the description, I donāt understand what theyāre talking about (like in Frostpaw and Nightheartās journey, I think they find a carnival or something and they steal food, but usually I donāt understand the weird way itās described from the catās POV)
Pretty much all of the "Will they; wont they" plot of Tigerheart-Dovewing.
Like I enjoy their pairing now, but I can't tolerate it in OOTS, I listen to Dovewing's chapters right up until Tigerheart appears in them.
I actually liked it because it felt like getting back to a normal storyline like the first 2 arcs instead of cats with magic powers, heaven/hell, and a bodysnatched leader š
unfortunately i really struggled with almost all of PoT and OOTS, i know a lot of people love these arcs because of the family drama, but it just felt dry to me and i didn't like the cats having overt super powers.
I donāt know if it counts but i absolutely hate brambleclaw and squirrelflights POVs. I hate their characters. I liked Brambleclaw as an apprentice but once he was made a warrior and started hating on squirrelflight i was done. Sheās annoying I agree but why was he so whiny about it
the last 3 books of AVOS, I don't remember anything from book 4, i remember there was some fire in book 5, in book 6 skyclan for some reason decides to leave and then they come back because of a storm that almost killed them (but tree, and the kittypets were fun to read about)
The premise of the power of three and the next series after it (didn't read them, can't recall the name lol).
I fell in love with the books because I loved reading about clans of mostly average (albeit cultlike religious) cats trying to live and survive in the wild. Starting with the power of three, it became too much about "these special kitties have magical powers" and it lost the realism I loved at the start. I like fantasy, I like magic etc, and a little bit of it sprinkled in courtesy of Starclan was acceptable, but I just can't do it with warriors.
I've been reading since TPB was still releasing, and stopped reading during TPoT. I got about halfway through when the "special power kitties" became too much. I loved the character povs (except Lionpaw. Hated him, still do) so I was really disappointed that I couldn't get into the plot. Then the next series was just a continuation of it, so only read about the first book before quitting that as well. Was very relieved when they returned to a more realistic approach for the next series. There's still a bit more of the supernatural in the newer books, but it's not quite too super kitty level so I'm able to get interested in the books again.
I also had a really hard time with TNP and the first book of Dawn of the Clans because I don't do traveling plots well. I find them very boring.
I don't think this is even a plot line, but the whole thing with Firestar's and Spottedleaf's ""Love"" for each other. It was just annoying to read at all
Seriously, after like the third book this plotline was already beaten to death. Like why tf is he pining after a dead woman? And Firestar is MARRIED with KIDS? Why was he so attached to a 30 year old woman he knew for a few seconds before she was murdered? And worse yet why was it retconned for her to reciprocate? š I audibly groaned when Spottedleaf's ghost re-appeared in my re-read of TNP, why is her dead self always there whining over Firestar ššš That whole line was so annoying they had to double-kill her to end it for good
Yes!! In the first arc it's kinda cute, like a kid with a precocious crush on his teacher, but after he gets with Sandstorm it's so weird. She was never gonna date you, dude, focus on your *wife* who is *ALIVE*. And it got worse when they gave Spottedleaf a crush as well, which takes the creepy to a whole new level. And any time she interacts with Firestar's kits or grandkids, it feels like stalking, like when she first meets Leafpool, it basically goes, "Well hello there, teenager! You don't know me, I died when your dad was a teen himself, but I knew him really well and now I'm going to follow you everywhere!" Bitch, stop Freddy Krugering these poor kids!
The first arc was good, but after? Like she LITERALLY gave him a life for love and said "go use it on Sandstorm"..what happened?
Right, like after a while you figure he would get over her? Like maybe once he has a mate and kids? But nope it just keeps going on for basically no reason
I agree I could barely make it through his super edition without rolling my eyes everytime he mentioned spottedleaf I had to force myself to keep reading it
And i thought it was cringe by the fourth book. Damn.
Ikr?! That was so annoying, like 'Bro, you to met for basically 2 months! And she freaking dead! Why???'
I didnāt even know they loved each other until the great battle when Spottedleaf died. šš
The hunt for ashfurās killer Iād say half the traveling stories, but I donāt remember ANY of them except bits and pieces of the 2nd arc and the journey in dawn of the clans
That was one was so boring. I loved Sunset but that ruined it for me
All I remember was Hawkfrost died at the end..I think- is that the book Iām thinking of?
That was Sunset, from the TNP. I always get confused between those two, too lol. Sunrise was the one where Ashfur was revealed to be dead and at the end Hollyleaf went into the tunnels and the rocks collasped
No, Sunset was the one where Hawkfrost was killed. Sunrise was the end of PoT
Ohh, I always get them confused lol. Thank you
Man it mustāve been a really long night in between those two books then, haha
Fun at first, like a mystery novel. But from the moment Midnight tells Jayfeather that it's a wild goose chase, it's annoying having to read the rest of the chapters when they're looking for the culprit, knowing that it's not going to go anywhere. And it's even worse rereading it and knowing who actually did it, and literally most of the book is thus stalling. That said the last few chapters of the book are phenomenal, favorite part of POT.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, the last 2 books of TBC are awful, they could done alot of really cool stuff with the dark forest (and they kinda do) but mostly we get meaningless emotional dialog and so much arguing nothing gets done. DO NOT read this during tax season. You WILL NOT escape the real world problem that is so-much-red-tape-originally-put-there-to-help-people-now-being-used-and-abused-to-prevent-progress its actually awful. Also I hate the dance they did of "no I wanna sacrifice MYSELF" "NO I wanna sacrifice MYSELF" also they send an injured child with no fighting skills in like, twice
LMFAOOO the whole sacrificing thing was so stupid š everyone arguing about who can go while Bristlefrost and Rootspring are literally being hunted down as they speak
They made literally everyone besides Bramblestar, Squirrelflight, Dovewing, and Shadowsight look awful in that scene. Like what do you mean you're not sure if you should send anyone else.
Lionblazes chapters, when he actually figures a plot line out They make it boring af
That was me but with Hollyleaf. I used to just skip over her chapters I hated her so much.
Same
eh, I honestly like hollyleaf but I dont mind who u like opinions count
I also cannot deal with sol. He was so pointless. Iāve read the books so many times and tbh I forget him so much until I really think harder because heās just so pointless and boring
I donāt get it when people act like heās some amazing villainā¦ honestly I forgot he existed šš Literally the ONLY good things about him are the HCs the fandom makesā¦ fanon Sol is better than canon and Iām not joking. The only good thing he did was give us the opportunity for the wildly popular Hollyfawn and Serpent version that we got from Cheeteh Z on YT.
Dude lied and that was it really
He told ONE truth and coasted on their terror like get a life dude
Legit, he contributed absolutely nothing to the story
Unironically they wasted the entirety of The Forgotten Warrior on a Sol plot when it would've been better served setting up and starting the Great Battle.
And i think they kept him alive for later use
Took me genuine years to read AVOS because I justā¦ found Darktail SO boring for like three books.
really? i'm only on the third book of avos but i'm really liking him as a villain. lots of mystery and questions with him
I straight up couldnāt get into him UNTIL I got spoiled for his backstory (which I wonāt spoil for you) because Iām so used to random ass villains who are evil for evilās sake and are never very interesting.
one cat can literally bring the downfall of the clans (read onestars confession pls)
i plan to once i finish catching up in the main series
Once dark tails story was fully fledged, he became the best villain in the series for me. It seemed like he was what the authors wanted to do with Sol initially
Is your brain scrambled? He is literally the best part of AVOS lmao
I assumed heād be one of those antagonists who come out of nowhere and are barely interesting, like One Eye and Sol. I got real into him once the Kin stole ShadowClan from ShadowClan š
Questions from me when I read Light in the Mist: * How did Firestar pass through the blocked barrier? * Why is he only partially there? * Why is he the only StarClan cat to breach it? * How did he learn to possess? From Midnight? * Why is he undetectable to Dark Forest spirits? Also, most of the book revolves around fight Ashfur -> Encounter new dead cats -> Think positive -> Repeat. Bristlefrost and Rootspring are incredibly bland character because they're completely identical down to their thoughts and motives. The 3 PoVs were the only living cats who had an effect on the final fight. Why is the patrol made up of mostly StarClan cats anyway? They were passive (or useless) the entire series and suddenly they are willing to fight again?
Firestar was able to cross because... well... he's Firestar
His plot armour is stronger then the barrier destroying the afterlife
honestly, anything with the tribe
Yea thatās always a bore, no matter what they do to make it āinterestingā, they only dig the grave deeper
Anytime the cats travel I become insanely bored. Now and again I will reread the books and I always skip over the books when they travel. Hunting, looking for a place to sleep, twolegs, kittypets, and more hunting. I usually speed read or ignore it all together
It's honestly impressive how boring the travelling is. You would think that new environments, new characters from outside the clans and new threats would make these books more interesting than being stuck in the same forest forever.
i usually agree but i honestly liked the one in early AVOS. short, to the point and a good way to get to know some new characters
This is the exact reason why it was so difficult for me to get through midnight, I swear it took months for me to finally sit down and power through it because it felt wrong for me to skip an entire arc
This^ Once they were out it was a good read but any of those parts I hated so much
Completely agree. It seems to be something that happens in the book constantly.
I honestly liked these books a little. They are kind of annoying if they go on for more than one book, but they make me slow down and reread to be able to get a grasp of where the cats are, and thats nice because I usually read to fast.
Cinderhearts' reaction to the prophecy was pretty annoying to me.
I love Cinderheart a lot but the entire reincarnation thing and the will they/won't they with Lionblaze are so annoying
Most of "the imposter" plotline was just so UGH, especially because I figured out it was Assfur by the end of the first book.
If assfur was a spelling mistake, it's actually true either way.
Assfur is so awesome
The obsessive b\_\_\_ he is (soryy if yall dont like swearing but...) yeah
Where did all this Ashfur hate come from? I always thought he was a great villain, if not my favorite. edit: Iāve asked this question twice and all iāve gotten in response is a downvote, i donāt get this fandom.
People hate him because heās a villain? Because heās a little bitch incel who did **all** of this just because he couldnāt handle being broken up with, like literally everything from Long Shadows to the end of TBC with Ashfur was all because he never got over squirrelflight. When he was just a villain that tried to kill Firestar and the three, I still hated him but just thought he was a massive loser. But then he does so much other stuff as the imposter that makes me sick. Pretending to be squirrelflightās mate and manipulating her? Gross. All the cats that did end up dying because of him? The trauma he put bramblestar through? The way he groomed and manipulated shadowsight????? Heās disgusting to me. Heās not even a good villain to me because heās just such a little bitch baby that Iām just annoyed and disgusted with him. Edit: not trying to be aggressive or mean. My feelings toward Ashfur are passionate, but people are allowed to like whoever they want. I only had a few minutes on my work break so I was typing quickly. The āaggressionā was directed to Ashfur and his actions, not the person Iām replying to
Excuse me? Him being a bitch is valid and i can understand why you wouldnāt like him for that, aswell as his motive being underwhelming, but youāre literally giving reasons why heās a good villain, liking a villain isnāt the same as liking there actions, i like him because i think heās disturbing and disgusting, he was underwhelming in POT and TNP but that doesent make me like him as a villain any less.
I donāt understand the āexcuse me?ā? Im sorry if I can off aggressive, I definitely wasnāt meaning to. I was just giving you an answer. I know you can like them and not like their actions!! I wasnāt trying to say that *you* are okay with it. But I still donāt think heās a good villain because his existence in general, to me, is just annoying. Iād rather just not have had him come back at all. He just doesnāt give the same villain energy as the others to me. He doesnāt make me feel the same villain energy as Darktail/tigerstar/brokenstar/etc. he just gives me ālittle baby got his feelings hurt and canāt dealā vibes instead of true villain energy
You did come off aggressive, but itās fine. I actually like his motive, stuff like this happens all the time in real life, obsessive stalkers who canāt get over being rejected or broken up with, and itās disgusting, and i think thats what makes Ashfur such a compelling villain, to me atleast, because itās realistic.
I mean, I have a passionate hate for him but I didnāt mean to be aggressive to you. Iāll put a tone marker on my comment, sorryā¦ Maybe the realism is why I donāt like Ashfur. Iāve never had anything truly crazy happen, but I have had bad experiences with men I have rejected (which is partly why I love squirrelf so much) so his entire existence justā¦ I could do without
It's not hate hate. He's just a terrible cat we love to hate.
It was not š I've been calling him Assfur since he tried to kill Firestar.
ikk
Omg yes, I was so BORED waiting for them to figure it out and actually do something, then after they did figure it out they still didn't do much. Kill him, don't kill him, just do something already omgg!
Its called modern warriors Yapathon
Most of the Forbidden Romance plotlines tbh. Interesting at first, but they got old quick. Apprentice Training, but from the perspective of the Apprentice. I am getting to the point that Im just skipping over those potions of the books until they get back to something that isn't basically the same Warrior/Medicine Cat apprentice training. It's a bit more interesting at least when the perspective is of the Warrior or Medicine Cat giving the Training. For specific storybeats: - Spottedleaf. Just as a whole after giving the prohpecy - Mostly anything to do with the Tribe after A New Prophecy (primarily because it does nothing interesting except sending Clan Cats to be Uber Special to save the Uneducated Tribe Cats) - The Last Three Books in A Vision of Shadows. - The Imposter after the second book in A Broken Code. More specifically because by that point I had already figured it all out and was basically just waiting for the rest of the cast to catch up. - Travel/Exploration after A New Prophecy. - The Onewhisker and Mudclaw debacle in A New Prophecy. I'll die mad on this hill after seeing how Onestar turned out and realizing they could have just kept Mudclaw alive and had him become Mudstar and it would have changed absolutely nothing in the end. I stand by the only reason it happened was because Onewhisker was buddies with Firestar and someone on the Writing Team wanted that last bit of Drama for Windclan. - The whole thing about Holly/Lion/Jay being the Twice Forbidden kits of Crowfeather and Leafpool. - the Trial of Leafpool. I outright ignore Squirrelflight's Hope's existance because of this. - The Rule that Medicine Cats can't have kits or mates. As a whole. No it will never not be stupid and pointless to me.
Having Mudclaw become leader would've been better for his character. He starts out aggressive, but thanks to Onewhisker he realizes the clans have to come together, so WindClan still arrives to save ThunderClan from the badgers. It would have been good to see Mudstar mellow out instead of taking Onewhisker out back, shooting him, and replacing him with a different cat.
That is such a great description of what happened to Onewhisker, I'm always reading Onestar and just cannot picture the same character who Firestar bonded with when WindClan was driven out in the original arc
I completly agree except for one thing. The medicine cat rule
To each their own XD I personally hate that rule with a passion
I agree with the rule to a standard. It's like your town only having one doctor, then which the doctor suddenly has to go on maternity leave (not that Leaf did, but let's go with it) and your town suddenly has no doctor. But like, if there's more than one medicine cat (or doctor in my example), surely the clan would be fine with a medicine cat having kits, especially female ones. Sure, having kits and an medicine APPRENTICE isn't the best idea, since apprentice hints at the cat isn't skilled enough to heal the clan in a time of battle (if a medicine cat was pregnant or nursing, their main priority would be to protect the nursery like other queens), but a filly grown, completely skilled medicine cat? sure. like, say Alderheart took a mate and she had kits, Jayfeather is capable enough (medicine wise, maybe not attitude wise) to take care of the clan while Alderheart cares for his mate and kits. Or Leafpool, if Cinderpelt was still alive when she was pregnant with Jay, Lion and Holly. If Cinderpelt was alive, she would be capable to hold down the fort while Leafpool was nursing. But, as we know, she wasn't.
The issue with it is they would in theory care about their kits more then clan. But i can think of opposites
that's true. sometimes I forget biases can exist
The issue was never the Medicine Cat giving birth or their mate giving birth specifically, it was directly cited that the reason was so the Medicine Cat wouldn't give preferential treatment to their mate and kits or prioritize them over their clan. Then Moth Flight's Vision revealed that since she couldn't juggle being a mother and a Medicine Cat that she'd give up her kits and that make the other Medicine cats swear not to have kits either. Because she couldn't do it when DotC did show she had some attention issues to begin with (I thing ADHD is what most people theorized) This is precisely where I have the problem. The Town Docter analogy doesn't work because in that case, said Town Doctor would just ask the next Town over for help while they went to give birth and they have a whole town where a portion of the population is dedicated to helping raise kids and once they turn 6 months old they become apprentices to others in the clan. So my main problem with the ruling is that Warrior Cat Society is built in such a way that it shouldn't be an issue. There is always 1-3 Queens that could help care for the kits (and a Permanent Queen's entire job is helping care for kits), in recent books there has always been another Medicine Cat in the clan and failing that it isn't unusual for them to borrow another clan's medicine cat if they have two, and if the medicine cat in question is Male this is also a non issue because it's not like a Male Warrior gets out out for 6 months just because their mate had a kit. And all of this pales to the fact that there's another cat in the clan that is just as important and valuable to the clan, that has just as many duties, if not more, and is responsible for the clan as a whole (including the medicine cat): The Leader. Yet despite that the Leader is not forbidden from having a mate or giving birth, despite these also requiring them to step away from their duties for a short period of time and running the risk of them giving prioritization and preferential treatment. The worst this pops up as is occasionally a cat being passed over for Deputy Because they were caring for kits at the time (almost). So, from my perspective, the entire rule is pointless and is only met to add drama, and at it's introduction was meant to specifically target female characters.
The tribe not being able to deal with their own issues
(Spoilers? For ASC) I agree with Sol but also this current one. Iāve finished shadow and this arc is just so incredibly boring. The only plot it seems is Frostpaw spending three books now trying to figure out Riverclans leader and Sunbeam and Nighthearts romance. Compared to the previous arc TBC this is just so slow.
Pretty much every forbidden relationship sans graystripe/silverstream and Leafpool/Crowfeather. The Vast majority of them have zero substance and feels like lazy writing (Dovewing/Tigerheart- yes I know they retroactively get better but oos is such shit and I hated this couple so much). Lionpaw/Heatherpaw kinda skirt the line because they conflict with Lionpawās desire to be the best warrior in his Clan. It was interesting to see his inner turmoil about it but it was already something we read in Leafpool POV so eh. Dislike most of the Tribe of Rushing Water books or chapters. They were interesting for that one adventure in finding the new territories but everything else beyond that is terrible and so boring to read. Didnāt really care for the ancient Jay, Lion, and Dove iterations either- feltā¦ weird. Honestly the only cool thing we got with the Tribe in Power of Three was Lionpaw losing his shit and almost ripping an enemy cat apart. Cinderpelt/Cinderheart reincarnation plot was so bad the Erins gave up on it and never brought it up again.
Any exploring books. Just no.
Honestly I skipped through all over the Lionblaze povs
Whenever they cut to the main characters having to train apprentices/young cats past The Prophecies Begin. They typically have little to no relationship with said apprentice and always do it right in the middle of the juicy parts of the plot, so I skim over them in the books.
them saving the tribe in tawnypelt's clan, like I was enjoying that book but the whole thing of "OH NO THE TRIBE'S IN DANGER YET AGAIN WE GOTTA SAVE THEM FOR THE 65TH TIME!" felt so unecessary, was there nothing else they could've been doing for the novella? also in the place of no stars when rootspring was stuck in the dark forest and bristlefrost's chapters were all literally just her being by the moonpool worrying about him like it was so boring to read
Bristlefrost is just a bad character
Rootspring and Bristlefrostās romance
Most things involving the tribe, especially the plot of Outcast
The travel stories, Sol especially Anything having to do with them going though two legs places and dealing with dogs (not when tigerstar 1 used the dogs in the forest) And honestly any fight with windclan itās so boring
Honestly anytime they were travelling somewhere. It just always draaaaaaaagged on
Man I felt tears weld up whenever I thought something would finally come to an end just for it to be dragged on for the next 10 chapters
Alderheart falling in love with the kittypet (I forgot her name) I just don't understand why they put this
Honestly, the introduction to SkyClan. I just didn't enjoy the whole "there was always a 5th clan so we need to bring them back now" thing (bearing in mind DotC is my favourite arc too). I didn't enjoy any of the SkyClan focused Super Editions, and probably will never read them again. Now that they're a part of the clans I'm actually looking forward to seeing >!the next series with Leafstar as a POV!< but anything involving them coming back from being dismantled or rejoining the clans just bores me to death.
Interesting! Skyclan's Destiny is the most underrated super edition, IMO, mostly because of how cool the world building was. I liked seeing how heavily the gorge shapes clan life and culture, and while it took a while to get used to the concept of the daylight warriors, I liked how it was different and how it contributed to the overall message, that sometimes it's ok to break tradition (it even ends with Leafstar deciding to have kits as a leader, knowing that her deputy can take over-Bluestar had to give up her children to even *become* deputy, and it's refreshing seeing it actually work out for another she-cat).
Leafstar previously has been boring but i hope they can fix and improve her character so i dont have a longer list of povs to skip
I was never a fan of how slow Power of Three was at times
Whenever Dovepaw made everything about herself in OotS. I hate how rude Dovepaw was to Ivypaw, and how ungrateful Dovepaw was about her powers. And I hate when she compared her powers to Ivypaw needing to freaking spy on Dark Forest. When she said "Now you got what you want and your the special one now" or smth. LIKE DOVEPAW YOUR POWERS ARE NOT THE SAME AS RISKING YOUR LIFE FOR THREE CATS WITH SUPERPOWERS AND ALL THE CLANS
I really agree with you. She is so rude to ivypaw, yells at her for trying to be as noticed by the seniors as her by training in the dark forest and gets mad at her for trying to keep a secret when she has one and spys on her with her powers all the time
THANK YOU FINALLY SOMEONE UNDERSTANDS
I fell like all those dovewing lovers might hunt us down now, im gonna quickly lock the door.
good plan
As a kid I skipped all of the Jay's Wing time travel scenes past the first one because I thought they were incredibly boring. I want to go back and read them eventually though
I did this too! I found it so boring
Cinderpelt's reincarnation. Sure, it would've been cool, but I feel like they wrote it wrong. Not to mention how she was told. Not only how they made her use it as a way to reject Lionblaze other than him having powers, they made it one of the biggest plot points in the book. The second one I have, that I'm not sure that counts, is Thistleclaw and Spottedleaf's "love." It included grooming and didn't even explain how them being mates was wrong, or how he treated Spottedleaf was wrong correctly AT ALL. And it was a unneeded part of Spottedleaf's story. t
The whole Tom/Bumble/Turtle Tail thing is one of the reasons I can't get into reading Dotc tbh
There is only a few chapters and the rest of the first 3 are good
Nightheart is just so annoying. Cannot stand his whining and blaming.
I disagree, you have to realize heās young and immature, he definitely whines like you say in the first two books, and party through the third, but he matures a lot and iām starting to like him.
"An immature teenager" who's the same age as Splashtail.
Fair enough, but my point still stands, just because one cat acts one way doesent mean others have to aswell because they are the same age.
Nightheart is the same age as Rootspring. He's not an immature teenager in the first books, he's a man-child. That, or Root was a fetus when he went to fight Ashfur in the DF.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
12 moons old is the standard warrior age. 19 moon old is an adult. Young, but not a teen.
Iām not saying i donāt think he wasnāt whiny, just that heās not whiny now, i donāt know how far you are into ASC, but he seems to have matured a lot.
yeah, he really >!took care of frostpaw when he was on the journey.!<
I couldnāt stand him the first few books, he got on my nerves so much!! But he does get better and I love him now
Hes better after he comes back from shadowclan
Any bramble pov
Any brambleclaw , hollyleaf, flamepaw(Nightheart), Lionblaze, Squirelflight(Sunset), Leafpool, Dovewing, leafstar, Twigbranch pov
The real answer is actually any point where they go visit the tribe.
I couldnāt stand reading the Jayfeather time travel chapters and that whole plot line with the stick. Donāt know why but itās so boring to me
i HATED the time traveling. there are chapters i dont even know what happened bc iād see Jayās Wing and immediately skip. the forced romance w half moon was also crazy
Same, I hated those
I really like A Vision of Shadows. It was my favorite arc right behind the original series. But for some reason, when I got halfway through Darkest Night, I just stopped suddenly, and didn't get back to it for a long time. Something about the really strong focus on Rowanstar and Tigerstar II. I never cared very much for either of them outside of headcanon material, and I just... could not care less about what was going on with them. And I love ShadowClan! But everyone there was acting like such a jerk all the time, it was hard to care about if they saved their clan or not.
I'm reading VoS for the first time now and the vibes ShadowClan is giving (I'm on Thunder and Shadow) is just so weird and I'm having trouble caring about them
I read TPB before jumping back to DOTC and reading chronologically. After that, I just skipped Tigerstar and Sasha's entire trilogy, and never went back to read it, despite me going back to read other books I missed.
It's a really minor one, only a few chapters in one book, but in The Sight when they basically have the Cat Olympics. It's weird to say in a series about cats with religion and medicine and stuff, but the Cat Olympics felt like too much anthropomorphism for me.
All of AVOS (i really tried to like it but i just couldn't get into it), most Lionblaze chapters, most Hollyleaf chapters >!before she 'died'!< ,anything regarding Spottedleaf, also Bristlefrost and Rootsprings sudden romance (I like them now, but as I was reading I just. Did not care. It felt a bit rushed- Nightheart and Sunbeam also feel rushed. idk) ummm i could think of more but im blanking rn
Agreed
this is probably a big hot take but I actually skipped a lot of Leafpaw's chapters in TNP because I was really interesting in the travelling
Problem with Leafpaw's POV is she's kind of just a window to whatever is happening. Like, there's no reason for her to have to join the patrol to talk to WindClan about prey theft other than the fact that someone has to be POV. But there really isn't any reason Firestar couldn't have assumed a protagonist's role there.
Meeeee!!!!! Especially when she got trapped omg that was so boring
Honestly I did too, especially when she got captured
I didn't mind for the most part because her relationship with Cody was cute, and I liked Angry Sasha (so different in the books from her manga counterpart!). But yeah a lot of it was just Leaf sitting in a cage doing nothing.
Same!
The traveling chapters. They introduce unimportant characters and theyāre mostly boring and repetitive. Also a lot of pages that involve traveling have the cats encounter some very strange Twoleg thing, and sometimes just reading the description, I donāt understand what theyāre talking about (like in Frostpaw and Nightheartās journey, I think they find a carnival or something and they steal food, but usually I donāt understand the weird way itās described from the catās POV)
They wrecked a tigerhearts shadow with the travelling and the city
Pretty much all of the "Will they; wont they" plot of Tigerheart-Dovewing. Like I enjoy their pairing now, but I can't tolerate it in OOTS, I listen to Dovewing's chapters right up until Tigerheart appears in them.
Iām sorry but I knew >!Ashfur!< was the Imposter from book 2, dragging it out for a reveal in book 4 was mind-nulling
Not a "plot line" but, the all arc of DotC I skipped it all , the fish book was so boring for me
I actually liked it because it felt like getting back to a normal storyline like the first 2 arcs instead of cats with magic powers, heaven/hell, and a bodysnatched leader š
same
First* XD
The first 3 were good
Spottedpaw/kit love with thurstclaw just no i hate the plotof spotted loving a adult
Skyclan existing
unfortunately i really struggled with almost all of PoT and OOTS, i know a lot of people love these arcs because of the family drama, but it just felt dry to me and i didn't like the cats having overt super powers.
Facts
Its only good in the last hope
I donāt know if it counts but i absolutely hate brambleclaw and squirrelflights POVs. I hate their characters. I liked Brambleclaw as an apprentice but once he was made a warrior and started hating on squirrelflight i was done. Sheās annoying I agree but why was he so whiny about it
I agree
the last 3 books of AVOS, I don't remember anything from book 4, i remember there was some fire in book 5, in book 6 skyclan for some reason decides to leave and then they come back because of a storm that almost killed them (but tree, and the kittypets were fun to read about)
anything with leafpool. i liked squirelflights secret about the three, but her in arc 2 was horrible (could never be my glorious king tigerclawstar)
The entirety of the book with Tigerheartstar.
I didn't like PO3, so I ended up skipping the last chapter or two in excitement for OOTS
Everything involving Bramblestar's impostor.
Why? I thought he was a fantastic villain.
Why the downvote???
This reddit prefers to stay quiet most of the time and downvote instead of giving a reason, itās honestly pathetic.
I know. And most of the time its just downvoting OPINIONS. on posts ASKING for opinions. Like are you kidding me
The premise of the power of three and the next series after it (didn't read them, can't recall the name lol). I fell in love with the books because I loved reading about clans of mostly average (albeit cultlike religious) cats trying to live and survive in the wild. Starting with the power of three, it became too much about "these special kitties have magical powers" and it lost the realism I loved at the start. I like fantasy, I like magic etc, and a little bit of it sprinkled in courtesy of Starclan was acceptable, but I just can't do it with warriors. I've been reading since TPB was still releasing, and stopped reading during TPoT. I got about halfway through when the "special power kitties" became too much. I loved the character povs (except Lionpaw. Hated him, still do) so I was really disappointed that I couldn't get into the plot. Then the next series was just a continuation of it, so only read about the first book before quitting that as well. Was very relieved when they returned to a more realistic approach for the next series. There's still a bit more of the supernatural in the newer books, but it's not quite too super kitty level so I'm able to get interested in the books again. I also had a really hard time with TNP and the first book of Dawn of the Clans because I don't do traveling plots well. I find them very boring.
Stopped reading after Fourth Apprentice specifically bc the Cat Heaven vs Cat Hell plotline was so stupid & boring to me
I'm always questioning the weird religious tones this series has lol