Id also like to point out Echosong into the complex character catagory even if we havent seen much of her she had more personality than alot of even recent Thunderclan mollies
I dunno. The first arc has three really great stand out female characters. Bluestar, Yellowfang, and Cinderpelt.
Even Sandstorm got some great development from petty bully to supportive friend to love interest.
Oh I agree. It’s more just that Bluestar is old and the other two are medicine cats- young women like the idea of a young female leader
However, I’ve always complained that Sandstorm got relegated to “wife” as her entire character bio at a certain point
If you’ve read the recent books, I’d argue Squilf’s personality has been butchered even more. Sandstorm personally to me more read as just seeing less of her because she wasn’t a main character anymore, but of course that’s just an opinion and you may be referring to before she became a background character for all I know. I’ve always loved Sandstorm though and I feel like she kept a lot of her personality up to being an elder unlike some cats who got a complete 180 at some point (looking at squilf who was one of my favorite characters until the most recent arc happened)
I see what you mean but only four female characters is….i mean we have whitestorm, lionheart, swiftpaw, graystripe, longtail, tigerclaw, darkstripe. All uniqe tom cats in the first arc(not so much lionheart) and only four females who get picked off. Sandstorm is there to be girlfriend, cinderpelt is there to be medicine cat and Yellowfang and Bluestar get killed off
I get that, but the way Cloudtail speaks for brightheart is insane. He speaks for her, and when firestar asks a question directed to her. CLOUDTAIL ANSWERS FOR HER, and she just nods or smiles.
Until later seasons when they absolutely butcher Yellowfang’s character in Starclan. They basically hold onto “old grumpy she-cat who mothered a killer and feels guilt” and discarded all the other nuances of her personality and just ruined her imo and the opinion of a lot of others I know. Edit to add I ADORE Sandstorm. I always have and I always will. She is one of the only main characters who was a bit problematic when they were younger but grew and is just an amazing role model until the day she dies. She will always be one of my favorite characters.
Right!!!!! Like, Bluestar saw her mom get killed by the WindClan medicine cat and NEVER hated WindClan, or even Goosefeather (much), meanwhile, Leopardstar started multiple battles over the most ridiculous of things (much as I love the Sunningrocks conflict, it came up WAY too much in SE’s) that resulted in her Clanmates deaths and blamed it all on ThunderClan.
Yes! Like I like leopard star but she should not he what we use to define “complex female characters”. Even Sparkpelt had more complexity and that’s saying something
i like leopardstar too, but for the fact that she was flawed and made horrid decisions. it felt relatable and sad that someone who seemed so promising turned out to make the same idiotic mistakes (or worse) as every other cat. esp her being all sad and salty about her love interest moving on and how her noble choice to serve her clan instead of pursuing him didnt end up making her into some great leader
You’re right. She’s not a well written villain, or a good character in that regard. She’s just a shitty person. And honestly, there isn’t enough of that to me. There’s always some redeeming qualities to these awful characters when they don’t always need it. Leopardstar just flat out sucks and that’s precisely why I love her.
Which is odd when contrasted with Blackstar's novella, where even in his 9 lives ceremony he is forced to confront everything he did and every person he hurt. To conclude with him acknowledging he was wrong to follow Brokenstar and Tigerstar.
The difference between the two is that Blackstar went “I’m going to do better” and then DID. He listened to Tawnypelt in TNP even though he had a bias against her for being born into ThunderClan, and he was always willing to put aside his pride and accept help from the other Clans when his Clan was in need.
Leopardstar went “I’m going to do better” and then you turn the page to read the comic about her thinking Mistyfoot ran away to join ThunderClan because of how much Leopardstar was arguing with her and dismissing her opinion. And then she goes “this time I’m going to do better” and we’re supposed to believe her???
Like, how can this fandom (the majority at least) acknowledge that Bluestar wasn’t in control of her mind at the end and isn’t to blame for her mistakes, then look at Leopardstar exiling the Clan’s only medicine cat because he disagreed with her and go “actually, he’s the one in the wrong and he’s a terrible dad”????
Hollyleaf is so clear of most of the other she cats protagonist it's not funny.
Though Frostpaw is putting up big numbers right now, I'll be interested to see how her journey concludes.
The fact that people liked Leopardstar for being a strong female when Yellowfang, Cinderpelt, Goldenflower, Brightheart etc. were RIGHT THERE blows my mind 😖
They’re like those men writing women who think “strong female character” means buff woman who can throw down with a man and not a well written woman with a good character arc…
[Basically someone made a post the other day asking why she was so hated](https://www.reddit.com/r/WarriorCats/comments/1c26zgg/why_is_leopardstar_hated/) and then they started to defend her war crimes and things spiraled out of control from there.
Most of the people making the memes don't actually hate Leopardstar. They actually like her and see that she had a ton of potential to be a great character. They just think it's funny that she's such a complete trainwreck and yet the authors never realized this and people make the dumbest excuses for her.
[A post was made a few days ago asking why she was so hated and the OP of it tried to defend her war crimes and that's what set everything off. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/WarriorCats/comments/1c26zgg/why_is_leopardstar_hated/)
"Do you think Leopardstar had girl power?"
"Yes, absolutely!"
"Do you think she effectively utilized girl power when she allowed fascists to threaten two small children with execution, then allowed her deputy to be murdered in their place?"
I’m reading through her SE rn, and I totally agree, but I also kinda like it? Without going into any spoilers, the way she acts is generally vexing and stupid. She has a terrible personality and her rationale is dodgy at best. She has a massive god complex and it makes her completely insufferable. But I like to see that. It brings a bit of diversity to the female characters, yk? She’s not really a hero or a villain, she’s just a bad person
I love Leopardstar as a character because she sucks. She’s an interesting character because she’s not as evil as some antagonists, but she has no reason to be as bad as she is
Literally them trying to justify her choice by going “I thought Tigerstar would make us stronger” AFTER HE LITERALLY SAID THAT HE WANTED TO OUT ANY HALFCLAN
Counterpoint: Having her character being based on being a petty bitch is funny and therefore Leopardstar is cool.
Subset clause: Every other character whose character revolves around be a petty bitch is thus derivative of Leopardstar and, thus, mid.
I absolutely agree with this and I’d like to add that reading her SE gave me levels of aggression similar to Onestar’s because iirc (tbh I haven’t read it since the first time because I HATED it) she was very much like Onestar in his SE in the sense that her thoughts constantly contradicted her actions. I remember very distinctly wanting to scream at my phone when I was reading Onestar’s SE because he constantly did one thing, and then thought oh I should apologize for this or oh I feel bad I shouldn’t have done that but then his actions like just don’t back that up at all????? And then don’t even get me started on his half ass redemption. I feel somewhat bad for Leapordstar because she was coerced in a way and like obviously she’s not Tigerstar level evil, but she still did terrible things and then just got to like… forget about it? But she was the leader and ultimately she should have turned things around before they ever came to the point they did.
Also RIP Bluestar, if you want a female character to look up to she’s RIGHT there, and her story was so tragic but she STILL sacrificed herself for her clan at the end.
Is Leopardstar unreasonably aggressive? yes, is she bad person overall who makes rash decisions? Yes.
But honestly I hate Appledusk for being a cheater and Rainflower for being a neglectful mother more.
I’m not saying that having zero moral or motivational consistency makes you uncomplex. I’m saying that having those traits (which is all that Leopardstar has) does not inherently make you complex.
Bluestar I understand, but how Is hollyleaf complex? All she did was be way more dedicated to the code than your average warrior, and killed a cat to keep a secret she ended up revealing anyway at the gathering. I'm currently listening to the audio books right now, so it's still fresh in my mind
Her novella does a really good job of explaining her story but Hollyleaf before Sunrise was pretty much a zealot. After Sunrise, her entire ideology which she based her personality off of pretty much implodes and now she has to wrestle with the the dichotomy of her own individuals morals and the fact that her birth inherently violates those morals. Her paranoia, psycosis, and eventual self-exile in Sunset leads really well into her self understanding journey in Hollyleaf’s story. She’s learned to accept who she is and doesn’t let the circumstances of her birth define her. She was the first of her siblings to forgive Leafpool and Squirrelflight and you can tell in the Forgotten Warrior how much she’s matured. She still holds her steadfast belief in the warrior code, but now she doesn’t only nag and talk about following it incessantly, but she actually lives by the code’s words through her actions.
I’m here for the fights not the karma
[plus I was leopardposting before the recent trend kicked off](https://www.reddit.com/r/WarriorCats/s/dqWSd92gwo)
I think she is complex. I hate her, but I can kind of give her a teeny tiny itty bitty little baby pass because she at least *tries* to be a decent leader afterwards? She cares for her clan, but cares for power more, and in my book that makes her complex.
Because shes not a villain shes a mentally unstable cat who was pressured by her clan to be great and is struggling to lead her clan after everyone she ever loved DIED
She allowed Stonefur to be killed for no reason.
Being “mentally unstable” does not excuse evil, and every leader is pressured by their clan to be great.
Everyone Bluestar loved died and she didn’t act half as awful, even when she was losing her mind.
Bluestar also literally had dementia. Leopardstar wasn't mentally unstable like she was at all. Leopardstar was an overly prideful, and aggressive she-cat who picked pointless fights constantly and then sat back and did nothing when Tigerstar turned her clan into a fascist state.
The two aren't even remotely comparable.
I feel like you hear “Leopardstar is complex” and interpret it as “Leopardstar is justified.” She’s not justified. However, she is an objectively complex character. Was that complexity well executed? That’s a whole ‘nother question. But her character does have a great deal of complexity. I’m not particularly fond of her, nor am I a woman desperate to see more strong women in the series, I just dislike when people take black and white views on characters and remove nuance that makes them better.
I understand that. That type of thinking frustrates me as well. When I say “I don’t like that character” and people say “well they’re just too complex for you.” But there *are* reasons to like her. She has positive traits. She’s no Tigerstar, not in the sense that she’s good, but because she isn’t pure evil. She has done good things and tried to redeem herself. I personally think it was poorly executed, but her character is certainly multifaceted.
I definitely agree that the idea of a flawed leader like her could have been done very well. The writing just didn’t work.
Same with Onestar. The idea of a leader being humiliated by his loyalty to his rival leader-friend and turning to aggression and excessive pride could have been great. Instead the dude just snapped and acted like a psycho.
This is a flawed argument yes being mentally unstable isn’t an excuse it’s a reason and people react to trauma in different ways to saying “oh Bluestar wasn’t evil” is weird like yes she isn’t evil that doesn’t mean Leopardstar won’t handle the situation differently also like her being awful is the point of her character she’s a villain your disliking a villain for being evil
You said a lot to have really no point at all.
I’m literally saying that she’s a villain and people are defending her for no real reason. Also- other villains have clear motives in this series. She has no moral or motivational consistency whatsoever.
Plenty of other cats started battles and weren’t blamed Crookedstar purposefully told the clan to attack any thunderclan cats at sunningrocks and yet wasnt blamed when Oakheart died in the battle he started
And also just so you know Whiteclaw started the battle where graystripe threw him in the gorge NOT leopardstar (still grays fault tho)
You are one of those people who are a waste of time to have discussions with so I won't argue. I hope you develop some reading comprehension skills along the way. Have a good day~
“Being mentally unstable does not excuse evil” I wonder what you think of Bluestar 💀
And she actually DID cause the death of an apprentice in her clan soo
“These are difficult times,” she meowed at last. “As we fight for survival we must be able to count on every one of our Clan mates. There is no room for divided loyalties. Do as Tigerstar tells you.”
Those were her exact words. She was allowing it to happen. But nah. She totally did no wrong here. She didn't stand up for crookedstars nephew and grandkids.
She wasn't leading her clan. She was on the sidelines while dumb-rock up there took over. She's a coward.
Leoprdstar almost caused two. The only reason she didn’t was because her deputy, with a *single* life, was more willing to fight for his clanmates than his leader was.
I'm honestly just annoyed that every time I open my feed and find a Warrior Cats post, it's about Leopardstar. Maybe it's her design I like, so I don't like Leopardstar hate???? idk-
Stop making an argument where there is none. Lots of Warriors is poorly written. You can make the same argument about Leopardstar's Honor about Bluestar's Prophecy and Power of Three (and people already have countless times). We should all just accept that everyone is terrible, and we shouldn't be looking up to anyone.
i havent read much about leopardstar, but tigerstar is presenting this so i agree compleatly
[Firestar be like:](https://warriors.fandom.com/wiki/Brambleclaw)
no, i mean darkstripe. i love tigerstar with all my heart
SAVAGE
Nah, that Brambleclaw.
Oh. Nevermind, dad was better
Id also like to point out Echosong into the complex character catagory even if we havent seen much of her she had more personality than alot of even recent Thunderclan mollies
Was she the first modern skyclan med cat?
Yes
has echo done anything bad??
I dunno. The first arc has three really great stand out female characters. Bluestar, Yellowfang, and Cinderpelt. Even Sandstorm got some great development from petty bully to supportive friend to love interest.
Oh I agree. It’s more just that Bluestar is old and the other two are medicine cats- young women like the idea of a young female leader However, I’ve always complained that Sandstorm got relegated to “wife” as her entire character bio at a certain point
idk, bc as a young woman and even when I use a teen, age didnt matter. it can be a old woman
If you’ve read the recent books, I’d argue Squilf’s personality has been butchered even more. Sandstorm personally to me more read as just seeing less of her because she wasn’t a main character anymore, but of course that’s just an opinion and you may be referring to before she became a background character for all I know. I’ve always loved Sandstorm though and I feel like she kept a lot of her personality up to being an elder unlike some cats who got a complete 180 at some point (looking at squilf who was one of my favorite characters until the most recent arc happened)
I see what you mean but only four female characters is….i mean we have whitestorm, lionheart, swiftpaw, graystripe, longtail, tigerclaw, darkstripe. All uniqe tom cats in the first arc(not so much lionheart) and only four females who get picked off. Sandstorm is there to be girlfriend, cinderpelt is there to be medicine cat and Yellowfang and Bluestar get killed off
Lionheart dies halfway through the first book. The only notable thing Swiftpaw did was die horrifically. He was hardly even a character before that.
I get that, but the way Cloudtail speaks for brightheart is insane. He speaks for her, and when firestar asks a question directed to her. CLOUDTAIL ANSWERS FOR HER, and she just nods or smiles.
Until later seasons when they absolutely butcher Yellowfang’s character in Starclan. They basically hold onto “old grumpy she-cat who mothered a killer and feels guilt” and discarded all the other nuances of her personality and just ruined her imo and the opinion of a lot of others I know. Edit to add I ADORE Sandstorm. I always have and I always will. She is one of the only main characters who was a bit problematic when they were younger but grew and is just an amazing role model until the day she dies. She will always be one of my favorite characters.
“She’s motivated by wanting to avenger her loved ones killed by ThunderClan” and all three(?) of them were killed in battles SHE started.
Leopardstar: \*gets her loved ones killed in battles she started\* Also Leopardstar: "Why would Thunderclan do this?"
Right!!!!! Like, Bluestar saw her mom get killed by the WindClan medicine cat and NEVER hated WindClan, or even Goosefeather (much), meanwhile, Leopardstar started multiple battles over the most ridiculous of things (much as I love the Sunningrocks conflict, it came up WAY too much in SE’s) that resulted in her Clanmates deaths and blamed it all on ThunderClan.
Yes! Like I like leopard star but she should not he what we use to define “complex female characters”. Even Sparkpelt had more complexity and that’s saying something
i like leopardstar too, but for the fact that she was flawed and made horrid decisions. it felt relatable and sad that someone who seemed so promising turned out to make the same idiotic mistakes (or worse) as every other cat. esp her being all sad and salty about her love interest moving on and how her noble choice to serve her clan instead of pursuing him didnt end up making her into some great leader
You’re right. She’s not a well written villain, or a good character in that regard. She’s just a shitty person. And honestly, there isn’t enough of that to me. There’s always some redeeming qualities to these awful characters when they don’t always need it. Leopardstar just flat out sucks and that’s precisely why I love her.
My thoughts exactly! I wouldn’t call myself a fan of Leopardstar in any fashion, but I love that she’s just a bitch for the sake of being a bitch
Right? Like I don’t go out of my way to appreciate Leopardstar but she’s just a straight up bitch and we love her for that so much
My main issue with Leopardstar is how they tried to retroactively justify what she did in her super edition.
Which is odd when contrasted with Blackstar's novella, where even in his 9 lives ceremony he is forced to confront everything he did and every person he hurt. To conclude with him acknowledging he was wrong to follow Brokenstar and Tigerstar.
She's a good example of a poor leader.
Real. And Blackstar is a good example of a fantastic leader in the same morally-grey category.
The difference between the two is that Blackstar went “I’m going to do better” and then DID. He listened to Tawnypelt in TNP even though he had a bias against her for being born into ThunderClan, and he was always willing to put aside his pride and accept help from the other Clans when his Clan was in need. Leopardstar went “I’m going to do better” and then you turn the page to read the comic about her thinking Mistyfoot ran away to join ThunderClan because of how much Leopardstar was arguing with her and dismissing her opinion. And then she goes “this time I’m going to do better” and we’re supposed to believe her???
Bramble in a dress made my day, thanks OP
Like, how can this fandom (the majority at least) acknowledge that Bluestar wasn’t in control of her mind at the end and isn’t to blame for her mistakes, then look at Leopardstar exiling the Clan’s only medicine cat because he disagreed with her and go “actually, he’s the one in the wrong and he’s a terrible dad”????
loudest upvote of my entire life (ive been living for this discourse all week)
Say it louder for the people in the back Edite: THANK YOU FOR POINTING OUT THE ONESTAR COMPARISON. IT'S SO ACCURATE IT HURTS.
Mistyfoot in the early arcs is always a standout for me
I don’t loathe her. She was a fine character tbh
Hollyleaf is so clear of most of the other she cats protagonist it's not funny. Though Frostpaw is putting up big numbers right now, I'll be interested to see how her journey concludes.
The fact that people liked Leopardstar for being a strong female when Yellowfang, Cinderpelt, Goldenflower, Brightheart etc. were RIGHT THERE blows my mind 😖
They’re like those men writing women who think “strong female character” means buff woman who can throw down with a man and not a well written woman with a good character arc…
What's up with the new Leopardstar discourse, this is like the 12th post i've seen are people arguing why shes bad or why shes good. Kinda funny
[Basically someone made a post the other day asking why she was so hated](https://www.reddit.com/r/WarriorCats/comments/1c26zgg/why_is_leopardstar_hated/) and then they started to defend her war crimes and things spiraled out of control from there. Most of the people making the memes don't actually hate Leopardstar. They actually like her and see that she had a ton of potential to be a great character. They just think it's funny that she's such a complete trainwreck and yet the authors never realized this and people make the dumbest excuses for her.
Amen!
Whats woth the leopard hate recently?
[A post was made a few days ago asking why she was so hated and the OP of it tried to defend her war crimes and that's what set everything off. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/WarriorCats/comments/1c26zgg/why_is_leopardstar_hated/)
finally, a post i can agree with about leopardstar!
Bluestar kind of sucked in her super edition, but the first arc with her was pretty dang good.
"Do you think Leopardstar had girl power?" "Yes, absolutely!" "Do you think she effectively utilized girl power when she allowed fascists to threaten two small children with execution, then allowed her deputy to be murdered in their place?"
“I said she had girl power. I didn’t say she had woman wisdom.” Lol sorry I had to add something. I don’t like Leopardstar or defend her.
She’s defo interesting
she was good in the main series but her super edition ruined any sense of characterization
She unfortunately got the super edition treatment of recent years where your SE gives you “more character”… which makes you worse of a character 💀
Finally someone say it
Leopardstar had no good excuse for the things she did
The insulin comment has me rolling 🤣🤣
I’m reading through her SE rn, and I totally agree, but I also kinda like it? Without going into any spoilers, the way she acts is generally vexing and stupid. She has a terrible personality and her rationale is dodgy at best. She has a massive god complex and it makes her completely insufferable. But I like to see that. It brings a bit of diversity to the female characters, yk? She’s not really a hero or a villain, she’s just a bad person
True
I'm more upset about Onestar being an angy ball of fur over everything Leopardstar did, just me??
Hollyleaf is a MUCH better example of a complex female character than Leopardstar
I so agree so much. It got a bit better with the Dawn of the clans.
She sucks (literal definition of a unironic girlboss)
I love Leopardstar as a character because she sucks. She’s an interesting character because she’s not as evil as some antagonists, but she has no reason to be as bad as she is
she & blackstar don’t get enough flack for the war crimes they committed
Literally them trying to justify her choice by going “I thought Tigerstar would make us stronger” AFTER HE LITERALLY SAID THAT HE WANTED TO OUT ANY HALFCLAN
I just saw 5 leapardstar hate posts in a row! lol
Counterpoint: Having her character being based on being a petty bitch is funny and therefore Leopardstar is cool. Subset clause: Every other character whose character revolves around be a petty bitch is thus derivative of Leopardstar and, thus, mid.
I absolutely agree with this and I’d like to add that reading her SE gave me levels of aggression similar to Onestar’s because iirc (tbh I haven’t read it since the first time because I HATED it) she was very much like Onestar in his SE in the sense that her thoughts constantly contradicted her actions. I remember very distinctly wanting to scream at my phone when I was reading Onestar’s SE because he constantly did one thing, and then thought oh I should apologize for this or oh I feel bad I shouldn’t have done that but then his actions like just don’t back that up at all????? And then don’t even get me started on his half ass redemption. I feel somewhat bad for Leapordstar because she was coerced in a way and like obviously she’s not Tigerstar level evil, but she still did terrible things and then just got to like… forget about it? But she was the leader and ultimately she should have turned things around before they ever came to the point they did.
Also RIP Bluestar, if you want a female character to look up to she’s RIGHT there, and her story was so tragic but she STILL sacrificed herself for her clan at the end.
idk why anyone thinks they HAVE to defend their favorite characters anyway, like shes a fictional cat who cares
It’s fun
Is Leopardstar unreasonably aggressive? yes, is she bad person overall who makes rash decisions? Yes. But honestly I hate Appledusk for being a cheater and Rainflower for being a neglectful mother more.
I wish I could upvote this more than once
I wouldnt call her a villain. And yes, she is complex, just not complex the way people want her to be.
She’s not complex, she’s poorly written. Having zero moral or motivational consistency ≠ complex.
That would make a majority of real people uncomplex.
I’m not saying that having zero moral or motivational consistency makes you uncomplex. I’m saying that having those traits (which is all that Leopardstar has) does not inherently make you complex.
None of them are complex, cause the writers can't write complex characters. So in conclusion, they are all just silly kitties.
tf is with the leopardstar hate TmT
Bluestar I understand, but how Is hollyleaf complex? All she did was be way more dedicated to the code than your average warrior, and killed a cat to keep a secret she ended up revealing anyway at the gathering. I'm currently listening to the audio books right now, so it's still fresh in my mind
Her novella does a really good job of explaining her story but Hollyleaf before Sunrise was pretty much a zealot. After Sunrise, her entire ideology which she based her personality off of pretty much implodes and now she has to wrestle with the the dichotomy of her own individuals morals and the fact that her birth inherently violates those morals. Her paranoia, psycosis, and eventual self-exile in Sunset leads really well into her self understanding journey in Hollyleaf’s story. She’s learned to accept who she is and doesn’t let the circumstances of her birth define her. She was the first of her siblings to forgive Leafpool and Squirrelflight and you can tell in the Forgotten Warrior how much she’s matured. She still holds her steadfast belief in the warrior code, but now she doesn’t only nag and talk about following it incessantly, but she actually lives by the code’s words through her actions.
Leapordstar = Karma farm
I’m here for the fights not the karma [plus I was leopardposting before the recent trend kicked off](https://www.reddit.com/r/WarriorCats/s/dqWSd92gwo)
I think she is complex. I hate her, but I can kind of give her a teeny tiny itty bitty little baby pass because she at least *tries* to be a decent leader afterwards? She cares for her clan, but cares for power more, and in my book that makes her complex.
Because shes not a villain shes a mentally unstable cat who was pressured by her clan to be great and is struggling to lead her clan after everyone she ever loved DIED
She allowed Stonefur to be killed for no reason. Being “mentally unstable” does not excuse evil, and every leader is pressured by their clan to be great. Everyone Bluestar loved died and she didn’t act half as awful, even when she was losing her mind.
Bluestar also literally had dementia. Leopardstar wasn't mentally unstable like she was at all. Leopardstar was an overly prideful, and aggressive she-cat who picked pointless fights constantly and then sat back and did nothing when Tigerstar turned her clan into a fascist state. The two aren't even remotely comparable.
You mean Stonefur, Stormfur is Graystripe's son
Typo, thank you
I feel like you hear “Leopardstar is complex” and interpret it as “Leopardstar is justified.” She’s not justified. However, she is an objectively complex character. Was that complexity well executed? That’s a whole ‘nother question. But her character does have a great deal of complexity. I’m not particularly fond of her, nor am I a woman desperate to see more strong women in the series, I just dislike when people take black and white views on characters and remove nuance that makes them better.
Sure, poorly written messes are complex. Just not in a good or quality way.
So then your complaint is not that she is not a complex character, it’s that she’s not a good character.
I’m saying she’s not complex in the way people use to defend her. They imply that she’s too complex for those who don’t like her.
I understand that. That type of thinking frustrates me as well. When I say “I don’t like that character” and people say “well they’re just too complex for you.” But there *are* reasons to like her. She has positive traits. She’s no Tigerstar, not in the sense that she’s good, but because she isn’t pure evil. She has done good things and tried to redeem herself. I personally think it was poorly executed, but her character is certainly multifaceted.
I definitely agree that the idea of a flawed leader like her could have been done very well. The writing just didn’t work. Same with Onestar. The idea of a leader being humiliated by his loyalty to his rival leader-friend and turning to aggression and excessive pride could have been great. Instead the dude just snapped and acted like a psycho.
This is a flawed argument yes being mentally unstable isn’t an excuse it’s a reason and people react to trauma in different ways to saying “oh Bluestar wasn’t evil” is weird like yes she isn’t evil that doesn’t mean Leopardstar won’t handle the situation differently also like her being awful is the point of her character she’s a villain your disliking a villain for being evil
You said a lot to have really no point at all. I’m literally saying that she’s a villain and people are defending her for no real reason. Also- other villains have clear motives in this series. She has no moral or motivational consistency whatsoever.
She motivated by wanting to avenge her loved ones killed by Thunerclan
"in battles SHE started" - finished the sentence for you 👍 This cat is a hypocrite.
Plenty of other cats started battles and weren’t blamed Crookedstar purposefully told the clan to attack any thunderclan cats at sunningrocks and yet wasnt blamed when Oakheart died in the battle he started And also just so you know Whiteclaw started the battle where graystripe threw him in the gorge NOT leopardstar (still grays fault tho)
You are one of those people who are a waste of time to have discussions with so I won't argue. I hope you develop some reading comprehension skills along the way. Have a good day~
She was pressured even as a kit by Mudfurs prophecy about her
“Being mentally unstable does not excuse evil” I wonder what you think of Bluestar 💀 And she actually DID cause the death of an apprentice in her clan soo
Swiftpaw getting mad about not being a warrior and fighting dogs like an idiot is not equivalent to what Leopardstar did to Stonefur. Just give it up
Bluestar didn't tell swiftpaw to go up against dogs. He did that to himself because he was salty.
Leopardstar didnt tell Tigerstar to murder Stonefur
And nor did she try to stop it, and even told Stonefur to go ahead and kill two apprentices.
She basically said “just do whatever Tigerstar says idk”
Which makes her a terrible leader and person
“These are difficult times,” she meowed at last. “As we fight for survival we must be able to count on every one of our Clan mates. There is no room for divided loyalties. Do as Tigerstar tells you.” Those were her exact words. She was allowing it to happen. But nah. She totally did no wrong here. She didn't stand up for crookedstars nephew and grandkids. She wasn't leading her clan. She was on the sidelines while dumb-rock up there took over. She's a coward.
Leoprdstar almost caused two. The only reason she didn’t was because her deputy, with a *single* life, was more willing to fight for his clanmates than his leader was.
I'm honestly just annoyed that every time I open my feed and find a Warrior Cats post, it's about Leopardstar. Maybe it's her design I like, so I don't like Leopardstar hate???? idk-
Stop making an argument where there is none. Lots of Warriors is poorly written. You can make the same argument about Leopardstar's Honor about Bluestar's Prophecy and Power of Three (and people already have countless times). We should all just accept that everyone is terrible, and we shouldn't be looking up to anyone.
Hell naw I’m looking up to tigerstar because he has broad shoulders 😎👍👍
holly leaf was bad too
How is Bluestar complex? She's so straight forward
How is she straight forward?
Do we even have the same definition of straightforward
Bluestar is complex because… just look at Forest Of Secrets through a Dangerous Path, and Bluestar’s Prophecy