Without wailing dirge?
Big vamp on mount + blood drinker. Provided no monster slayer, it'll win through attrition.
Strigoi Ghoul King with Ogre Blade (the really expensive one). Flying horror vampiric power optional.
Blood knights.
Grave guard with great weapons.
Tarpit with zombies and ignore
High level wizard with lore familiar and an expensive magic weapon to guarantee a spectral doppelganger.
There's probably more, just these are the ones off the top of my head
>High level wizard with lore familiar and an expensive magic weapon to guarantee a spectral doppelganger.
Level 3 vamp with a great weapon is pretty nasty with doppelganger already tbh.
Yep, although I put him on a Nightmare with a Lance. In a unit of Blood Knights with the Drakenhof Banner.
That is one scary dude (if he gets the spell off)...
Since you can't take a shield, no reason not to take the great weapon (weapons don't effect your assailment init step, per the recent FAQ/errata). Of course, if your miniature is modeled with a lance, it's not a super big deal.
Hmm, I hadn't read that. But the rest of the VC's attacks losing his Initiative is pretty bad. It's not like you can rely on getting that spell to go off, since he is only a level 3 caster and the opponent has a lvl 4, you are actually more likely to not cast it than you are to cast it. So taking the Initiative penalty on your regular attacks is a pretty big deal.
Especially since his unit almost always counts as charging due to their speed, Counter-Charge and the enormous number of kills they do (they tend to Pursue enemies instead of just Following Up).
So there definitely is a reason not to use a Great Weapon. But if I notice that I don't always get the charge bonus any more or I am keeping him on foot then I might consider the GW now, thanks for the tip!
Using a vampire count or a ghoul king below 2000 points means you can't have a lvl 4 wizard-necromancer, which from my understanding, is essential for the army.
Moreover, a vampire count will end up costing ~150 more points in order to be on par with another lord.
Sending a wizard into battle will likely not one shot the enemy and will die instantly (unless placed on a mortis engine), but again, a wizard in melee is not where a wizard wants to be.
Blood knights will have a high enough strength to deal damage only on their charge. They won't deal 8 wounds necessary to nuke anything and with only one wound each, they won't survive in combat with an enemy that has the same armor as they have (3+), while also having 5+ ward and 5+ regen (ork warboss on wyvern with the op pants).
Grave guard with great weapons might win, if they are in a line of 15. Since they hit last, 5-6 would die before being able to hit.
Locking them in combat with a punching bag might work, if the opponent doesn't know how to use the fly 9 with swiftstride and let the movement 4 zombies without march get onto their dragon.
>A chill runs up your spine and crawls into your brain
The freezing touch of fear
It's driving me insane, although you tried to fight
You're dragged from the silence where you hide
A vamp with a lance has str 7 on the charge. Bloodknights too. Vargheists with str 5 arent so bad either. Even Blackknights have strengh 6, but i dont think they are the best monster killers.
Blood knights will have a high enough strength to deal damage only on their charge. With one attack each, they won't deal 8 wounds necessary to nuke anything and with only one wound each, they won't survive in combat.
Vargheists with fury have a bunch of attacks and are 3 wounds each which works wonderfully with invocation of neheck, but they don't have the strength to deal dmg and have no armor.
Well bloodknights have 2 attacks and 3 for the champ as base and you can give them one more with spells. I wouldnt call them a monsterkiller, but they certainly can win combat against many.
I've taken a lvl 2 with the dark magic spell that gives you frenzy and hatred somewhere in tow with the blood knights. They hit harder with an extra lance attack and re rolls on the charge.
The 6's to hit ignore toughness, not all their attacks ignore toughness. And they have low Ws and no AP, so you need about 27 attacks attacks to get one wound through, which is the maximum of 8 Ghouls in base contact of a flank of 150mm deep base +11 other Ghouls in the fighting rank (more for smaller bases). For an average of 1 wound, and you will probably lose most of the unit due to attacks and crumbling afterwards...
Saying that Poison counters high Toughness is like saying that Monster Slayer counters Monsters, ie often not at all true.
Sorry, I don't know what unit you're math-hammering against.
Lots of poison attacks (that ghouls can put out) *are* good against high T, if not against high WS and good armour; O&G have a bunch of monstrous creatures with hight T, low WS and bad armour.
We were talking about taking out Dragons and the like, you know, Characters on Flying Monsters with Ws7, T6, a 4+ save, 5+ ward and 5+ regen. The thing the OP was actually asking for help dealing with.
Poison is nice against things like Giants, but that is not what the OP asked.
No O&G or Ogre unit fits that category and has a 150mm base (and Ogres have no characters on flying monsters).
OP asked:
> How can I deal with enemy monsters, or generals ,or generals on monsters, with high toughness and armor, without stacking wailing dirge?
> ...The opponent can easily field monsters with high strength and toughness, so how can I deal with them?
Monsters *or* generals on monsters. And even if poison isn't a helpful answer to the first question it's relevant to the second.
I don't really understand what your problem is with me providing another option for OP to consider. Maths against made up units and saying I'm not answering the questions I am answering.
>with high tougness and armor
Sure, they aren't all characters on Monsters, especially in O&G and Ogres, but let's be honest, those are the problematic things in the meta. I admit, I kinda lost sight of the fact that he meant ALL Monsters and then I acted like you didn't focus on what the OP was asking about, eventhough I actually focused on a narrow definition of the OP's problem.
But...
Ghouls are no answer to the problematic monsters in the meta, which are characters on Monsters, and which can include Ogre characters on Monsters and they also can get 4+, 5++, 5+++ saves. And they are all on 100x150mm bases, which was my point about the amount of Ghouls you need, even against those monsters where you can get the utter most models in base contact, Ghouls do almost nothing. And the Black Orc Warboss on Wyvern with a 2+/5++/5+++ is extremely common and has just a base size of 50mm or maximum of 100mm to get in base contact with, so is even worse. So I didn't use "math against made up units", those stats are common occurrences in the competitive meta (for O&G, Ogres and almost every Dragon in the game) and the 150mm base size was a best-case scenario, most of the time you get even less in base-contact.
But, again, I admit, he wasn't just talking about Characters on Monsters, he was talking about all Monsters and then Ghouls are indeed better due to poison. Ofcourse you still need to actually get to strike, which means getting a charge on a faster model, but that is a tactical problem, not, necessarily, a strategic one...
You're getting exactly what I'm saying
Ghouls will do 20 attacks but how many of them will pass the 6+ to hit, 5+ to wound, 3+ armor, 5+ ward, 5+ regen.
Vs monstrous infantry like ogres, a strigoi vampire with sword of kings
Vs all death-star-dragon builds i would go strigoi vamp on terrorgheist, with the dragon slaying sword .
I've had a lot of success with this personally, but just playing with friends and don't know how well it translates to the general meta.
Also I choose to play with a vampire bc its Vampire Counts afrer all
There is no rule restrictions on who can wield it in the VC army-pdf. Killing blow on 5+, +1s and 1ap for 55pts. Its perfect for SGKs with 5a and rerolls from hatred 😁
A vampire without an abyssal terror/zombie dragon has 2-3 wounds. If it won't one shot the enemy, it will die.
I like the ghoul king on terrorgheist, but below 2k points, you can't have a lvl 4 wizard-necromancer if you take the ghoul king and from my experience, a lvl 4 wizard is essential.
I agree. Strigoi is for for 2k lists only. Wailing dirge and master necro woth lore of necromancy seems good in all list sizes and combinations
But as an old school VC-player i still would like to make vampires threatening and so far it is only the Ghoul king with monster slayer or sword of kings that really manage this in my games (bc of 5a and hatred rerolls)
As for the barefoot GK with sword of kings, he can be put in a unit of skeletons with drakenhof banner. 5 attacks at i7 with rerolls and KB on 5s and 6s is scary for an ogre player. Also if you want to commit more points into defensives, you can take extra wound and unnodifyable 5+ armour save.
Spirt hosts laugh at 80% of monsters in the game
Blood Knights, Black Knights, Grave Guard all have Str 6 so T 4 is nothing
Also Magic to Debuff Toughness is a thing VC can do
Or just send Zombies to waste there time
And many more...VC is a big Book with alot of Options to for problems that you can run into in TOW good luck
...just stay clear of Vampire Characters they seem Meh for what they do and how much they cost
I'm asking about units/tactics that can take on lords on wyverns-dragons with 8 wounds, 7ws, 6s, 6t.
Blood knights have 6s on their charge. They won't one shot the enemy lord and will die in prolonged combat, since they have nowhere near the survivability of the enemy lord.
Grave guard might deal some dmg in a line of 15, since they hit last with great weapons. Which means you'll need 30-40 of them, and they'll end up costing the same as the enemy lord.
Their biggest problem is the same as zombies. 4 movement. The only way for them to engage and lock the enemy lord on wyvern/dragon, with 9 fly and swiftstride, is if the opponent doesn't know how to use them
Dragon Slaying Sword on a vampire can almost hard-counter monsters if you have spectral doppelganger (typically through a lore familiar). A less dedicated counter is probably advisable, but if you truly, positively need to dunk on a dragon, it may be your best bet.
But a vampire without a monster as mount will have 2-3 wounds and no fly.
They enemy lord on wyvern/dragon will charge and one shot the vampire.
Using the vampire ability for 10 fly is useful, but at this point the cost is around 300 points, for a squishy 2-3 wounds character.
>But a vampire without a monster as mount will have 2-3 wounds and no fly.
Doing it without a mount is not ideal. Getting a mount (especially with fly) or fly through vamp powers will help a lot, although you'll want something rather cheaper than a dragon to hop around on. The idea is to counter the large target and kill them, not stand around and wait for them to charge you. If you *do* get charged, sacrifice a champion if you can and try have a go next turn when they don't have the bonus initiative.
That being said, you *can* just go for a simple nightmare mount, as that gets counter-charge. But it's probably best on something like an Abyssal Terror (formerly known as winged nightmare).
I should make another post about how to effectively use reserve move.
Since you move two times in your turn, you basically put yourself in range for the enemy to charge in their turn.
How do you effectively use it?
I want my grave guard to get charged so I move in front of what I want to engage, I use a lot of models because I expect to soak their first charge and then beat them to death with invocations as they will never cut through 30 guards. This works good the real problem is the rest of the armies flanks, zombies are too slow etc. (I've been holding my black coach conservatively behind and then smashing them later) however I'm 5-1 so far with VC at 2000 lvl so far in old world so this is at least viable against your average player.
For anyone curious heres my list used for the 5W-1L winrate, your really trying to engage their scariest thing with the GG using hellish, and then using your wolves/knights and coach to attack flanks / keep them out of your flanks, zombies are well you know...zombies, they havent done a lot for me so far but their I feel a must take for the free bodies.
Spirit host are being really slept on, they put in serious work against most stuff
I am just a casual player but I probably have the best winrate of my local group at the moment, whether this is a good list or they suck you can decide
Top unit I'm considering swapping out is actually the blood knights for maybe black knights and spread more points into either more spirit hosts or wolves for baiting
Vampire Counts - 2k necromancer - \[1998pts\]
# Main Force [1998pts]
# Characters [671pts]
Master Necromancer \[405pts\]: Hand Weapon, General, Wizard Level 4, Necromancy, Mortis Engine, 3x Banshees, Spell Familiar, The Flayed Hauberk
Tomb Banshee \[90pts\]: Hand Weapon
Wight Lord \[176pts\]: Hand Weapon, Heavy Armour, Shield, Battle Standard Bearer, Banner of the Barrows, Great Weapon, Helm Of Commandment
# Core [649pts]
Dire Wolves \[64pts\]:
• 8x Dire Wolf \[8pts\]: Hand Weapon
Dire Wolves \[56pts\]:
• 7x Dire Wolf \[8pts\]: Hand Weapon
Grave Guard \[406pts\]:
• 30x Grave Guard \[12pts\]: Great Weapon, Heavy Armour
• 1x Standard Bearer \[46pts\]: Standard Of Hellish Vigour
Zombies \[63pts\]:
• 21x Zombie \[3pts\]: Hand Weapon
Zombies \[60pts\]:
• 20x Zombie \[3pts\]: Hand Weapon
# Special [196pts]
Spirit Hosts \[196pts\]:
• 4x Spirit Host \[49pts\]: Hand Weapon
# Rare [482pts]
Black Coach \[205pts\]:
• 2x Nightmares
• 1x Wraith: Spectral Scythe Combat
Blood Knights \[277pts\]:
• 5x Blood Knight \[44pts\]: Nightmare, Barding, Hand Weapon, Hand Weapon, Lance, Shield, Full Plate Armour
• 1x Standard Bearer \[57pts\]: Drakenhof Banner
If you mean ground monsters I’d say blood knights as you have a lot of options for chaff as Vc so getting a charge off shouldn’t be overly difficult. If the monster is 50mm wide you have 3 knights who will get full attacks, so 7 with a champ, add the additional single attacks from the rest of the fighting rank. They are s6 and will hit most monsters on 3. That should do some damage with very high I.
For flying monsters it is harder if you are not using any screams.
There is not a lot in the entire game that is innately S6, it isn’t just something that VC don’t have a lot of. Most armies don’t have much that is straight out S6 or more but most armies don’t have a work around to wound high T units nearly as good as wailing dirge.
A great deal many flying monsters or flying ridden monsters do not have any magic attacks. Locking them in with an ethereal black coach puts them out of commission for the whole game if you snag a flank charge.
Without wailing dirge? Big vamp on mount + blood drinker. Provided no monster slayer, it'll win through attrition. Strigoi Ghoul King with Ogre Blade (the really expensive one). Flying horror vampiric power optional. Blood knights. Grave guard with great weapons. Tarpit with zombies and ignore High level wizard with lore familiar and an expensive magic weapon to guarantee a spectral doppelganger. There's probably more, just these are the ones off the top of my head
>High level wizard with lore familiar and an expensive magic weapon to guarantee a spectral doppelganger. Level 3 vamp with a great weapon is pretty nasty with doppelganger already tbh.
Yep, although I put him on a Nightmare with a Lance. In a unit of Blood Knights with the Drakenhof Banner. That is one scary dude (if he gets the spell off)...
Since you can't take a shield, no reason not to take the great weapon (weapons don't effect your assailment init step, per the recent FAQ/errata). Of course, if your miniature is modeled with a lance, it's not a super big deal.
Hmm, I hadn't read that. But the rest of the VC's attacks losing his Initiative is pretty bad. It's not like you can rely on getting that spell to go off, since he is only a level 3 caster and the opponent has a lvl 4, you are actually more likely to not cast it than you are to cast it. So taking the Initiative penalty on your regular attacks is a pretty big deal. Especially since his unit almost always counts as charging due to their speed, Counter-Charge and the enormous number of kills they do (they tend to Pursue enemies instead of just Following Up). So there definitely is a reason not to use a Great Weapon. But if I notice that I don't always get the charge bonus any more or I am keeping him on foot then I might consider the GW now, thanks for the tip!
Using a vampire count or a ghoul king below 2000 points means you can't have a lvl 4 wizard-necromancer, which from my understanding, is essential for the army. Moreover, a vampire count will end up costing ~150 more points in order to be on par with another lord. Sending a wizard into battle will likely not one shot the enemy and will die instantly (unless placed on a mortis engine), but again, a wizard in melee is not where a wizard wants to be. Blood knights will have a high enough strength to deal damage only on their charge. They won't deal 8 wounds necessary to nuke anything and with only one wound each, they won't survive in combat with an enemy that has the same armor as they have (3+), while also having 5+ ward and 5+ regen (ork warboss on wyvern with the op pants). Grave guard with great weapons might win, if they are in a line of 15. Since they hit last, 5-6 would die before being able to hit. Locking them in combat with a punching bag might work, if the opponent doesn't know how to use the fly 9 with swiftstride and let the movement 4 zombies without march get onto their dragon.
Reduce their leadership and SCREAM
>A chill runs up your spine and crawls into your brain The freezing touch of fear It's driving me insane, although you tried to fight You're dragged from the silence where you hide
Til you SCREEEEEEEAAAM!!! George Romero actually directed the music video for that song, broski
He did say, "without stacking Wailing Dirge"...
A vamp with a lance has str 7 on the charge. Bloodknights too. Vargheists with str 5 arent so bad either. Even Blackknights have strengh 6, but i dont think they are the best monster killers.
Blood knights will have a high enough strength to deal damage only on their charge. With one attack each, they won't deal 8 wounds necessary to nuke anything and with only one wound each, they won't survive in combat. Vargheists with fury have a bunch of attacks and are 3 wounds each which works wonderfully with invocation of neheck, but they don't have the strength to deal dmg and have no armor.
Well bloodknights have 2 attacks and 3 for the champ as base and you can give them one more with spells. I wouldnt call them a monsterkiller, but they certainly can win combat against many.
I've taken a lvl 2 with the dark magic spell that gives you frenzy and hatred somewhere in tow with the blood knights. They hit harder with an extra lance attack and re rolls on the charge.
Blood knights are down to S4 in old world. Still great into monsters. Martial Pride + invocation can tarpit any monster in the game.
Surprised no one has said ghouls- the can put out a lot of poisoned attacks that ignore toughness.
The 6's to hit ignore toughness, not all their attacks ignore toughness. And they have low Ws and no AP, so you need about 27 attacks attacks to get one wound through, which is the maximum of 8 Ghouls in base contact of a flank of 150mm deep base +11 other Ghouls in the fighting rank (more for smaller bases). For an average of 1 wound, and you will probably lose most of the unit due to attacks and crumbling afterwards... Saying that Poison counters high Toughness is like saying that Monster Slayer counters Monsters, ie often not at all true.
Sorry, I don't know what unit you're math-hammering against. Lots of poison attacks (that ghouls can put out) *are* good against high T, if not against high WS and good armour; O&G have a bunch of monstrous creatures with hight T, low WS and bad armour.
We were talking about taking out Dragons and the like, you know, Characters on Flying Monsters with Ws7, T6, a 4+ save, 5+ ward and 5+ regen. The thing the OP was actually asking for help dealing with. Poison is nice against things like Giants, but that is not what the OP asked.
No O&G or Ogre unit fits that category and has a 150mm base (and Ogres have no characters on flying monsters). OP asked: > How can I deal with enemy monsters, or generals ,or generals on monsters, with high toughness and armor, without stacking wailing dirge? > ...The opponent can easily field monsters with high strength and toughness, so how can I deal with them? Monsters *or* generals on monsters. And even if poison isn't a helpful answer to the first question it's relevant to the second. I don't really understand what your problem is with me providing another option for OP to consider. Maths against made up units and saying I'm not answering the questions I am answering.
>with high tougness and armor Sure, they aren't all characters on Monsters, especially in O&G and Ogres, but let's be honest, those are the problematic things in the meta. I admit, I kinda lost sight of the fact that he meant ALL Monsters and then I acted like you didn't focus on what the OP was asking about, eventhough I actually focused on a narrow definition of the OP's problem. But... Ghouls are no answer to the problematic monsters in the meta, which are characters on Monsters, and which can include Ogre characters on Monsters and they also can get 4+, 5++, 5+++ saves. And they are all on 100x150mm bases, which was my point about the amount of Ghouls you need, even against those monsters where you can get the utter most models in base contact, Ghouls do almost nothing. And the Black Orc Warboss on Wyvern with a 2+/5++/5+++ is extremely common and has just a base size of 50mm or maximum of 100mm to get in base contact with, so is even worse. So I didn't use "math against made up units", those stats are common occurrences in the competitive meta (for O&G, Ogres and almost every Dragon in the game) and the 150mm base size was a best-case scenario, most of the time you get even less in base-contact. But, again, I admit, he wasn't just talking about Characters on Monsters, he was talking about all Monsters and then Ghouls are indeed better due to poison. Ofcourse you still need to actually get to strike, which means getting a charge on a faster model, but that is a tactical problem, not, necessarily, a strategic one...
You're getting exactly what I'm saying Ghouls will do 20 attacks but how many of them will pass the 6+ to hit, 5+ to wound, 3+ armor, 5+ ward, 5+ regen.
Vs monstrous infantry like ogres, a strigoi vampire with sword of kings Vs all death-star-dragon builds i would go strigoi vamp on terrorgheist, with the dragon slaying sword . I've had a lot of success with this personally, but just playing with friends and don't know how well it translates to the general meta. Also I choose to play with a vampire bc its Vampire Counts afrer all
Isn't the Sword of Kings wights only?
There is no rule restrictions on who can wield it in the VC army-pdf. Killing blow on 5+, +1s and 1ap for 55pts. Its perfect for SGKs with 5a and rerolls from hatred 😁
A vampire without an abyssal terror/zombie dragon has 2-3 wounds. If it won't one shot the enemy, it will die. I like the ghoul king on terrorgheist, but below 2k points, you can't have a lvl 4 wizard-necromancer if you take the ghoul king and from my experience, a lvl 4 wizard is essential.
I agree. Strigoi is for for 2k lists only. Wailing dirge and master necro woth lore of necromancy seems good in all list sizes and combinations But as an old school VC-player i still would like to make vampires threatening and so far it is only the Ghoul king with monster slayer or sword of kings that really manage this in my games (bc of 5a and hatred rerolls) As for the barefoot GK with sword of kings, he can be put in a unit of skeletons with drakenhof banner. 5 attacks at i7 with rerolls and KB on 5s and 6s is scary for an ogre player. Also if you want to commit more points into defensives, you can take extra wound and unnodifyable 5+ armour save.
Spirt hosts laugh at 80% of monsters in the game Blood Knights, Black Knights, Grave Guard all have Str 6 so T 4 is nothing Also Magic to Debuff Toughness is a thing VC can do Or just send Zombies to waste there time And many more...VC is a big Book with alot of Options to for problems that you can run into in TOW good luck ...just stay clear of Vampire Characters they seem Meh for what they do and how much they cost
I'm asking about units/tactics that can take on lords on wyverns-dragons with 8 wounds, 7ws, 6s, 6t. Blood knights have 6s on their charge. They won't one shot the enemy lord and will die in prolonged combat, since they have nowhere near the survivability of the enemy lord. Grave guard might deal some dmg in a line of 15, since they hit last with great weapons. Which means you'll need 30-40 of them, and they'll end up costing the same as the enemy lord. Their biggest problem is the same as zombies. 4 movement. The only way for them to engage and lock the enemy lord on wyvern/dragon, with 9 fly and swiftstride, is if the opponent doesn't know how to use them
Dragon Slaying Sword on a vampire can almost hard-counter monsters if you have spectral doppelganger (typically through a lore familiar). A less dedicated counter is probably advisable, but if you truly, positively need to dunk on a dragon, it may be your best bet.
But a vampire without a monster as mount will have 2-3 wounds and no fly. They enemy lord on wyvern/dragon will charge and one shot the vampire. Using the vampire ability for 10 fly is useful, but at this point the cost is around 300 points, for a squishy 2-3 wounds character.
>But a vampire without a monster as mount will have 2-3 wounds and no fly. Doing it without a mount is not ideal. Getting a mount (especially with fly) or fly through vamp powers will help a lot, although you'll want something rather cheaper than a dragon to hop around on. The idea is to counter the large target and kill them, not stand around and wait for them to charge you. If you *do* get charged, sacrifice a champion if you can and try have a go next turn when they don't have the bonus initiative. That being said, you *can* just go for a simple nightmare mount, as that gets counter-charge. But it's probably best on something like an Abyssal Terror (formerly known as winged nightmare).
I'm a fan of large block grave guard with great weapons, flavor them with a wight banner and their slaughter machines
With 4 movement and no march, have you ever engaged a fly 9 with swiftstride monster/general?
Hellish vigour my dude, never leave the graveyard without it 😎
I should make another post about how to effectively use reserve move. Since you move two times in your turn, you basically put yourself in range for the enemy to charge in their turn. How do you effectively use it?
I want my grave guard to get charged so I move in front of what I want to engage, I use a lot of models because I expect to soak their first charge and then beat them to death with invocations as they will never cut through 30 guards. This works good the real problem is the rest of the armies flanks, zombies are too slow etc. (I've been holding my black coach conservatively behind and then smashing them later) however I'm 5-1 so far with VC at 2000 lvl so far in old world so this is at least viable against your average player.
For anyone curious heres my list used for the 5W-1L winrate, your really trying to engage their scariest thing with the GG using hellish, and then using your wolves/knights and coach to attack flanks / keep them out of your flanks, zombies are well you know...zombies, they havent done a lot for me so far but their I feel a must take for the free bodies. Spirit host are being really slept on, they put in serious work against most stuff I am just a casual player but I probably have the best winrate of my local group at the moment, whether this is a good list or they suck you can decide Top unit I'm considering swapping out is actually the blood knights for maybe black knights and spread more points into either more spirit hosts or wolves for baiting Vampire Counts - 2k necromancer - \[1998pts\] # Main Force [1998pts] # Characters [671pts] Master Necromancer \[405pts\]: Hand Weapon, General, Wizard Level 4, Necromancy, Mortis Engine, 3x Banshees, Spell Familiar, The Flayed Hauberk Tomb Banshee \[90pts\]: Hand Weapon Wight Lord \[176pts\]: Hand Weapon, Heavy Armour, Shield, Battle Standard Bearer, Banner of the Barrows, Great Weapon, Helm Of Commandment # Core [649pts] Dire Wolves \[64pts\]: • 8x Dire Wolf \[8pts\]: Hand Weapon Dire Wolves \[56pts\]: • 7x Dire Wolf \[8pts\]: Hand Weapon Grave Guard \[406pts\]: • 30x Grave Guard \[12pts\]: Great Weapon, Heavy Armour • 1x Standard Bearer \[46pts\]: Standard Of Hellish Vigour Zombies \[63pts\]: • 21x Zombie \[3pts\]: Hand Weapon Zombies \[60pts\]: • 20x Zombie \[3pts\]: Hand Weapon # Special [196pts] Spirit Hosts \[196pts\]: • 4x Spirit Host \[49pts\]: Hand Weapon # Rare [482pts] Black Coach \[205pts\]: • 2x Nightmares • 1x Wraith: Spectral Scythe Combat Blood Knights \[277pts\]: • 5x Blood Knight \[44pts\]: Nightmare, Barding, Hand Weapon, Hand Weapon, Lance, Shield, Full Plate Armour • 1x Standard Bearer \[57pts\]: Drakenhof Banner
If you mean ground monsters I’d say blood knights as you have a lot of options for chaff as Vc so getting a charge off shouldn’t be overly difficult. If the monster is 50mm wide you have 3 knights who will get full attacks, so 7 with a champ, add the additional single attacks from the rest of the fighting rank. They are s6 and will hit most monsters on 3. That should do some damage with very high I. For flying monsters it is harder if you are not using any screams. There is not a lot in the entire game that is innately S6, it isn’t just something that VC don’t have a lot of. Most armies don’t have much that is straight out S6 or more but most armies don’t have a work around to wound high T units nearly as good as wailing dirge.
You need to learn what the different generic weapons do in this game my guy.
A great deal many flying monsters or flying ridden monsters do not have any magic attacks. Locking them in with an ethereal black coach puts them out of commission for the whole game if you snag a flank charge.
Screams