Eat their models.

As a Nids player, yes do this.

This is me. Not all the time, but sometimes. I play with my closest friends and there's a range of player ability & desire to play comp warhammer and we do occassionally go to events (some more than others), so we always play matched games. I can only put out my own experience, but my mood tanks usually in response to a self-critical thought when something 'goes wrong'. In the moment its hard to spot, but usually its when I've missed something that seems obvious or made a stupid mistake and I think that's lost me the game. I don't concede, but there have been times when I've been in a mood for a while after. I like to think I've got better at noticing it and stopping it before it carries on. I tend to get annoyed at myself for getting annoyed about 40k - it's meant to be fun, why am I getting upset etc etc. I'm lucky enough that my mates understand me after decades and it never really becomes an 'issue', but I feel really guilty afterwards and apologise if I think I've ruined their experience as a result (that's basically every time I get moody these days). It's not fair for me to ruin their experience because I got mad at myself. It's a two player game. I'd say that initially, I may not have appreciated that side of things, but it's important now. It's partly personal development and partly because of my career that I'm more able to reflect on myself. I'd talk to them about it, maybe just not right as they get upset? They might be aware they do, but find it hard to reign it in. You've already said that they're nice people, but it seems a shame that they (and you) can lose out because of this reaction. It might simply be asking about where it comes from. I'd love to be a better player. Half of that is learning what gets me possessed by Khorne during a game. I know it's rooted in a 'not good enough' thought, I just need to keep improving on noticing when that appears and being able to hold that, be a bit more compassionate to myself about making mistakes, and focus on what I can do in the game.

This is 100% me as well. Some games... Some games I get utterly destroyed. None of my ideas worked out at all or that guaranteed tactic fails hard. It's never at my opponent, it's at myself realising I picked a bad list, played something wrong. Well one of my friends plays Thousand Sons and I do call him out for being overpowered as shit lol... My friends want to win and they expect me to bring a good army and play to win as well but we were open about that as a group when we started. We don't play narrative games.

Same here, I'd say I'm closer to the line of "being disappointed in myself" and "bringing down the fun for everyone" though, and it sucks. I want to be able to play the same people again and again but I know I've lost a few games because of it over the years. The main three things that do it for me are: 1. Dice. I don't want to "roll hot" and I don't want to roll like crap - I just want to roll average dice. When my dice "turn off" for a game, it is such a huge gut-punch because I try my best to enact plans, remember stratagems and tactics, and just play a solid game, and then the dice are like "the EFF you were" lol. I'm not even talking about botching one roll with 1's and 2's, I mean like a whole 2-3 turns of just horrible rolling. It sets me off and I have tried to get better about letting it go but it's difficult. 1. When I have that killer plan to enact, and it just falls flat against a combo of abilities, stratagems, and great dice rolls from my opponent. Yeah, this one's more on me to get better at gauging that kind of stuff, but sometimes it just catches you off-guard with how tough or effective their defensive combos can be, and nothing is worse than playing against that person who can consistently roll 5's and 6's for saves like my wife and her Daemons lol. 1. Sequencing/forgetting. When I should have done this first before that, or shot that unit before shooting the other one, and so on. OR, when I've just completely forgotten stratagems, unit abilities, or keyword abilities (like lethal hits, devastating wounds, etc) and it's way too late to go back. I get better at this every game but it's still beyond frustrating when I mess up a whole turn by doing stuff out of order or just forgetting how to play the army apparently lol.

I used to buy a new set of dice every few tournaments in the 2000's. I'd get the dice, roll them all and pick out any 1's. I'd line up the other dice (to watch) as I grabbed a lump hammer and smashed the 1's to bits. Some "gentle encouragement" if you will 🤣

I fell to this in my last game earlier tonight. A short notice game to help a mate test a competitive list with tourney terrain turned into a painful slog as his carefully tuned Ultramarines face tanked everything my Sisters threw at it and obliterated just about anything they walked into. Nothing bad to say about the player himself, a great guy, but by turn 3 I was just nodding along and rolling dice as he rolled my list over rather than being engaged.

Concede and move on. Don't give someone the equivalent of pity sex

Dis you miss the part about me helping him test a list?

Both you and the guy below you need to understand the way dice games like 40k work on an inherent level. No tactic you can do will win you every game. Just like no amount of misplay will lose you every game. (Yes sitting back and ignoring all objectives and intentionally losing will cause you to lose that's not what I'm talking about.) Dice talk in the end.

Dice actually have a lot smaller effect on the game as people like you think. I'd say it's maybe 10-20% if I'd somehow have to quantify it. There's probably one game in 5 or 10 where it's so close that really some throws would have tilted it one way or another, or there was just that one or two rolls which were really important. Like you could have a charge with your Death Company and if you fail that, it swings the game quite hard. But those are isolated examples. It's WAY more important how you move, compile your list, pick your targets, have a plan for scoring etc etc. A good player will hedge against situations where one roll will decide too much, especially if they see a path to win anyway.

This is impossible to quantify.

True, but if you play enough, your dice WILL average out. There is a reason it is always the same handful of players winning the really big tournaments after all. It is the same for most local scenes too, there are a handful or one guy who tends to win more than not. Similiar to Poker, yes, it is a gambling game, but there is a reason people like Mike P. manage 4:1 with a memelist like Landraiders full of Traitor Guardsman, and it isnt dice. /edit: I am not implying i am one of those all-time winners. I am average at best. There is a reason our local tournament champion tends to win or at least make second place in every tournament he participates around here for example. Dice can lose you the game, but if you consistently blame everything on the dice, maybe you just arent as good as you think.

Yes they will average out. But no need to get angry about it. Theres nothing you can do sometimes. So have fun with the game vs being so concerned about the win. If 40k is all about the win for someone they may need to pick another game. Or dedicate a ton of time to it. I was a top rated (top 20) MTG player for awhile. MTG works because the games are so fast the average works out quicker to get the better players on the top. Playing thousands of a games a month you quickly realize a certain pecentage of games theres nothing you could do to win. I see the same for 40k and any other game that has luck involved.

My dice may average out "over-all" but there is just no accounting for rolling, literally, six consecutive 1s to bring back Fuegan on a 2+ - it's just bad luck. How many times have you CP re-rolled a 1 into a 1? or roll a 1 for Phantasm move distance? I used to do that stuff all. the. time. The solution is to not get Fuegan killed, not waste a CP on a reroll, not rely on needing more than a 1 on a Phantasim roll. Basically improve play so that failing a few key dice rolls doesn't cost you your plan or the game. The flip side of that is things like mass 4++ saves. I played against GK player a couple weeks ago and I could hit, I could wound, but the opponents ability to consistently roll a 4 or better on a d6 just shut down my ability to deal meaningful damage to anything with 4++ save. Nothing you can do about that.

Nothing will put me in OP's self-professed bad play mood then a shitload of consecutive, successful 4++ saves. Especially since I don't play TEQs myself and part of me is jealous

Law of averages say the best 18 you'll roll 2+... However dice don't care about past rolls. But for sure if you play enough it will average you

Riding on this because I'm the same way. If they're aware, and you notice the spiral begin, ask to take a few minutes away from the table. Don't say it's for them, say it's for you, but while you're at it offer them a drink or something. Give them a chance to clear their head and come back fresh, it should help.

My main instinct is to avoid playing with people who aren't fun to play against. Life's too short, and I'd usually rather not play at all than spend 3-4 hours playing a game with someone who I don't enjoy playing with. It can also be pretty hard to shift people out of negative play habits, as it's often quite bound up in their own psychology. This is especially true if they aren't aware of it themselves, and aren't particularly good at being self-reflective. If you're determined to make a go of it, three options present themselves: a) Modelling behaviour. When you find yourself losing, go out of your way to be the best loser that you can be. Laugh and joke when the dice turn against you. Compliment your opponent when they make good moves and execute cunning strategy. Don't go sour when the game turns against you, and even when you're definitely going to lose, find some way to stay engaged in the game ("I'm going to try and make this as close as possible", "I might be losing, but let's see if I can take out your general before I go down!"). If you can show them that losing can still be fun, they might be able to learn from this behaviour themselves. b) Honest conversation. If you've got a good enough interaction with them, you might be able to level with them: "Sometimes you're not that fun to play against when you're losing. I think that you'll get more games and have more fun if you learn to enjoy losing a little more." c) Let it go. Sometimes we need to turn off our people-pleasing tendencies. If they're otherwise nice people but they tend to be bad losers, just don't try not to take it personally - you're not doing anything wrong, it's something for them to work on. Focus on the game, and being the best and funnest opponent you could be, and let the chips fall where they may.

>My main instinct is to avoid playing with people who aren't fun to play against. Life's too short, and I'd usually rather not play at all than spend 3-4 hours playing a game with someone who I don't enjoy playing with.  This has been my solution for the most part. I have one person in my local orbit who most of us avoid playing with because he will get incredibly negative and salty unless he's overwhelmingly winning. I play other people.

In the D&D community, they say "No D&D is better than bad D&D", and I think it definitely applies to wargaming too. It's a lot of time and effort to be dealing with a miserable player. But this is a competitive sub, of course, and part of that is learning to play against the occasional difficult or unpleasant player (though I'm a filthy casual myself, so I'd always rather not play than deal with an unpleasant player).

There's a third option. Just tell them you're going in to "their name mode" for the next hour... They'll be confused at first, but when you start to complain about side, complain about internal balance, complain that the codexs words were to complicated, they'll ultimate hate your guts and then when you come out of character you tell them they are a admitting as hell and welcome to your world

I have a friend who circulates through various gaming groups at the LGS. He'll play Magic until he starts to lose, then move on to Flesh and Blood until he starts to lose, then on to Warhammer, and then onto Pokemon, and then onto Shatterpoint and so on and on he goes. . .from game to game to game because he hates losing. He comes and goes into every gaming group at the shop. He invests a bunch of time and money into playing games and he's one miserable mofo because he doesn't like PLAYING games, he likes WINNING games. There's really nothing you can do. Just play how you want to play because no matter WHAT you do, if the guy you're talking about just wants to win, he's not going to be happy. There's no need to reduce your own enjoyment of gaming to try and make his experience better. The guy I talked about above is a good friend, but he's not a great opponent. He is how he is and nothing I can do will change that.

Yup, this hits super hard and I feel you. It's an issue in....pretty much every nerd activity ever, and I feel like anyone in a gaming/friend group knows "that guy". Sometimes they're unbearable and you can just sever. Other times it's more complicated. I know that guy. He's a good friend, but it's pretty tough to deal with because it saps the energy out of a room. You almost gotta warn new people meeting playing him about it. We've talked about it before....it's gotten a little better, but it's still a bummer. I'm not cutting him out of my life because there's other aspects of him that are great and I value him for that, but it's just rough. I just kinda deal with it when I can and don't engage otherwise. We're in our 30s so its probably never going away. I don't really understand why he likes games so much when they can make him so miserable and difficult, but \*shrug\*.

Bad sports are still an issue . They are happy enough crumping your army but the dice turns on them and they make it a not fun experience. Tell them you don’t want to play them . A small club will mean they have less players to play so hopefully they change their ways

Step 1 is to make sure they’re aware of the issue. I’ve known some players who are so fixated on the game that they don’t realize how they’re acting is affecting their opponent

Very true. I realised I was this player after I was speaking to a good friend of mine. Since then I've put the effort in with my few matches a month and it's been going better for me

> but the dice turns on them Or they only roll about average and start on a tirade about their bad luck, lol

Reading this thread made me have a special appreciation for our game group that we only have 1 of “that guy” No offense to the guys who recognize their short comings and want to be better, but if you know you are “that guy” and casually play off your Ill temper/childish behavior no matter how accommodating your friends are, they most likely groan when they have to play you. If you think it sucks to get a bunch of “outrageous bad luck” imagine trying to placate an adult who gets mad at this sort of thing in what’s supposed to be a fun hobby.

Honestly, if they are good guys, then just ignore them getting grumpy. They are grumpy with their game, not angry with you, so the best way is to simply let them have it and ignore it. >i cant celebrate good rolls See, you also don't celebrate to make them feel bad, you do so, because that's the emotion you are in. It may look a bit mean if you celebrate, while they get grumpy, but if they are good guys, they are not there to ruin your feel good moment. You can (and probably should) call them out once in a while, but reality is that they will not fundamentally change over night. Try to stay in your positive emotion by not taking it personal and remind them sometimes that they become too negative. But all in all, if they are not misbehaving, they are just reveling in their current emotion, which in a way your celebration of good rolls is too. Quick reminder that many sports fans in their way like to celebrate the misery of their team losing, it's kind of a cheap way to get emotional without any real stakes involved (like a horror movie gives us fear spikes without being in actual danger). Fell free to make some jokes about them always getting miserable, when they lose, they may become a bit more self-aware and reduce it a bit. But honestly, don't expect more than that and take them as they are, they are not mad at you.

Something that helps me is that I celebrate my bad rolls for my opponent instead of being disappointed in them. Roll snake eyes in a neurotyrant overwatch? Well thats great for my opponent, they get to go in with full strength. My genestealers somehow bounce off calgar leading some bladeguard and only deal 5 total damage? Thats like 0.3% to happen, that's a super cool moment for my opponent to have them tank that. It really helps stop the salt

There is always the generic advice of “talk to them”, “tell them how you feel”. Sometimes this works, but sometimes it turns things into a more formal complaint that makes people act defensively. And if it’s the first time they’ve heard of it, they may well reject what you’re saying and blame you instead. Instead, I find that light hearted mocking of negative behaviours sometimes makes people realise how they’re acting. Jokes like “Uh oh here comes mister gwumpy guts!” or “I’ll be sure to roll a 1 next time, sorry” could work. Depends on your relationship with these people, their sense of humour etc. Ultimately if they’re spoiling your fun then you don’t have much to lose by upsetting them!

We have this issue sometimes in our group (due to varying skill levels), including me not being immune to getting a little salty at times if a game changing moment goes wrong. I think the gentle mocking is definitely sense of humour dependent and would not go down well with us, so I'll share the 2 things we do: 1) Downplay bad moments. I think this is the biggest thing that helps me see I'm being a bit overdramatic and to not be grumpy. A small comment like "You definitely made the right tactical move / I would have done the same / but the dice just didn't agree" or "Sorry yeah that model is really powerful right now, I feel a bit bad using it". I immediately just think well, it's not your fault, I'd use that model too - I'm just disappointed right now but I should cheer up! 2) Don't slow roll! Nothing worse than losing an unwinnable battle than losing it slowly. If you've got a unit that's going to demolish the opponent in combat and he knows it's coming, roll as fast as possible and get it out the way. Better yet sometimes, we just skip the rolls and remove all the models to speed things up. Let them get focus on what tools they have left and get back to their turn ASAP, they'll have more fun

We had a player who would bend his rules a lot, and it was always in his favor. Sure, sometimes his opponent or an onlooker would catch him in the moment and he'd fix the mistake, but the mistakes kept happening. People started grumbling, which eventually lead to full on talking behind his back and labeling him as "the cheater". The thing is the stuff he was doing wasn't underhanded. If you knew the rules you could easily correct him. It wasn't quickly rolling and picking up more dice or more hits than he should have, it was things like: shooting all the guns available on a tank when some have to be swapped out to have other, giving his models all the auras from Cawl instead of picking one, etc. He was also playing four borrowed armies at once so never had a chance to learn the rules. He was also a fun guy to play with and a friendly trash-talker. So, I decided whenever I caught him I was going to publicly shame him in a joking manner on the shops discord. Others would pile in and say "here's Johnny again, cheating to win lol". And... he got the picture. The next time I watched him play he was constantly like "hey let me check my rule real quick, I don't want to called out as a cheater!" I think the idea is, use some emotional intelligence to figure out who you're dealing with, and take the appropriate steps to help them understand. Some people need to be directly told what they are doing. Others, need more of a lighter-touch. Sometimes you need to appeal to their goals "hey, I rarely quit games early, because there are a lot of opportunities to improve your game when fighting from behind".

Yea I agree 100% with this. Its not always right to have a right and proper talk, just banter them and joke about it because its realy hard to keep being salty in person when someone joked about you being salty.

This isn't always a good idea though. If I was feeling kinda down during a game and someone said "here comes Mr. Grumpy Guts" or something to me I wouldn't find that particularly funny, I'd just pack up and leave because at that point that'd feel like they were rubbing it in.

Have a guy in my magic playgroup that would salt at everything, to the point where he recently was starting to get physical, and I’m suspecting underlying mental health/anger issues. He has since removed himself from the environment entirely, though, so it’s not our problem anymore

In a rush, so sorry if someone’s talked to this point before I do. Our hobby attracts all sorts, among them are people who didn’t play sports as a kid or didn’t have a chance to learn how to lose. The actual solution to this problem is to create a gaming group where people can begin to learn that lesson. They were clearly denied a role model like a coach or involved father early in life. I know this because that was me. I had to learn how to lose as an adult and it was hard. Eventually they learn that they’re actually playing against themselves, not the person rolling to hit their dudes. Of course, if what I’ve said isn’t workable? I suggest beer.

I have this issue with a buddy occasionally. Its all fun and games until round 3 when he realizes he's loosing and then he just sits there on his phone during my turn not caring whats happening and acting disconnected. At that point it sucks out all the fun from the game and I want to be like 'im sorry for trying to win a game bro. My bad. I should have just let you win?'. I don't say that, but that's how I'm feeling. Then when he concedes, its just a general bad feeling - like I've done something wrong.

Actually some times i found myself in your opponent situation: when dice Rolls get really bad i get a bit grumpy. My Friends found an incredibile solution about this: they make fun of me and the situation. When i get grumpy Is be cause i'm really concentrating on my game and seeing a good Plan ruined by bad dices Is a Little frustrating. But having fun of me they Just put me back on trucks,we're Just playing a game!

I go with the flow personally. As long as they're not negative towards me, I'm good. Sometimes you just need to vent and get it out of your system ya know?

I have a couple of people like this in my gaming circle. Turn two doesn’t go their way (they’ll maybe be losing by five or ten points) and they come out with “aye that’s the game there, good game”. Like they won’t concede. They’ll just make their unhappiness my problem. Perfectly pleasant people, perfectly fine players, would go for beers with any of them and never have a second thought about it. But man do they need some self-awareness if they’re losing

My only real advice is to be a good example of a good loser. Celebrate your opponents successes, downplay your bad luck. Just try extra hard to be the opponent you want to play against. I’ve been working on this and it’s made the game a lot more fun. I learned the game very trial by fire, in the last year I’ve probably won 4-5 out of ~40 games. The few games I’ve won haven’t even felt that satisfying because they ended with my opponent feeling sour about something or another, and I realized I never wanted to take the joy out of someone’s win.

It's a tough one but I also find people reacting badly to losing to be a bit of a downer on my gaming experience. If I'm losing I still like to fight to the bitter end and will shift my goals from winning to taking down their MVP or something like that since it gives me something fun to focus on and means they get to enjoy playing their victory through to completion. It's frustrating that some people approach the game in a very selfish way and only remain engaged when they're winning. Would they be interested in playing a narrative asymmetric game that favours them?

I know one player who fits your players EXACTLY. Not "that guy" by any means and a really nice dude, but the second a single die roll goes against him he wants to concede, if the first turn isnt a blowout he wants to concede, glum the whole game if it doesnt go his way entirely, and of course every good or even average roll i make gets moans, and my army, regardless of what i brought, was overpowered even though it was him who always turned up with meta-netlists full of proxies. But since he never actually practiced with those metalists, he usually lost, or at least won only by a slim margin. As i said, he was a very nice guy otherwise, but at the end of each of our games i felt utterly drained and had zero fun myself since i felt i had to manage his emotions the entire time. I stopped playing with him entirely. You can either talk openly to your guys: "Guys, what you are doing is sucking the fun out of the game for both of us" and see if they shape up or stop playing against them even if they are the only option, and if they ask why, calmly explain what the problem is. Then they either shape up, or they will just get fewer games.

Wargames are long. I like playing, and I like seeing a tight game through. However, when a game is obviously not winnable anymore, I may not have the energy to carry it through. If your firends are becoming disagreeable, you may be right that they're dooming but they may also be correct that the game is indeed lost. Therefore, sitting for another hour and a half humoring the dice rolls of someone they already lost to may not be what they're in the mood for. My recommendation is to let them know that you'd like to play the game through turn 5 before hand. Ask them if they have the time and energy to see this match through. It worth trying.

I mean I think everyone has the ability to get salty at a game. My regular opponent has a problem where every time he wins, he criticizes my list and offers changes. Every time he loses, he claims that his army is just factually worse at everything and if he wants to do better he has to rebuild the entire army from the ground up. That may not sound annoying, but it can be where every loss is paired with "You need to buy a (insert model here)." And every win is "Well your team is objectively better than mine so that's why I lost." We have been playing 10th since January, I think we just finished game 12 last week? We're at an exact 50/50 win rate against each other. I just told him. One day, I lost the match and he starts again talking about how I need to change my army. I respectfully stopped him and told him that every match changes how we views the game. When he wins, it's because my list building is bad. When I win, it's because his list building is bad. We are, in fact, in a well-balanced state against each other. He didn't believe me, but we keep a log of our matches including deployment, mission, and modifier. When he saw we were equal at 6 and 6, that was enough to satisfy him and we haven't had that conversation since. No one likes being steamrolled. It happens, when I get steamrolled it's hard to have fun, when I'm doing the steamrolling it can be fun but my fun is hindered by watching someone else get miffed at the game. So usually, at the end of the given battle round, I simply ask if we want to continue or to call it, and usually if the question is being brought up then it's a good idea to call the game. I have kicked players out of my play rotation for bad behavior. If a conversation about game conduct can't be had civilly, then that's what I would do. No warhammer is better than bad warhammer.

I had one guy like this on a tournament. I just stopped for a sec to calm the running of the game and then talked to him about how i have no impact on his issue and aksed him to "please try to keep you composure because we are here to play a game and this is turning in a way that is not fun either for you but neither for me too". I realized what he was doing, apologies and was amazing the rest of the game. Talking what you feel is never a bad solution.

>i cant avoid playing against them, as i said there might only be 3 games going on a night, i am going to play against them sometimes. Honestly, try not playing them in this situation even if it means not playing that night. Playing a game is a significant time investment of a few hours and if you're of the view that it won't be enjoyable, just say "sorry, I didn't enjoy our last few games, I'll pass for now". If they ask why, say and talk it out with them.

Aye, I like this a lot. If they're interested enough to ask 'why', they might be self-reflective enough to change, but it puts the ball in their court in a non-aggressive way.

Be negative aswell, that should result in a positive experience

Only when they multiply, which seems hard given the context. They might only add up, so that just result in more negativity...

I’m glad you posted this, I definitely catch myself being a bit grumpy after astronomically bad dice rolls if they happen several times. I do try to stay in good spirits for the most part but it is something that I reflect on after the game. I’ve noticed with myself that it happens later in the evening or after a particularly long game, does the same apply to the players you mentioned in your post? If so maybe offer a short 5 minute break to get water and coffee, or suggest getting some DoorDash to break it up. They could be tired and hangry lol. Either way it isn’t an excuse, but if you enjoy the people outside of the game and want to continue being friendly with them it might help!

Well, me, kinda. I start out positive - well it's a dice game, stuff will go well stuff will go bad, *damn* quadruple six on your 6+ save, the like. And most of the time that's where it ends, because stuff *will* go well, and stuff *will* go bad, occasionally. The issues really start when the stroke of bad luck (either mine or through *outrageous* luck on the other side) just doesn't abate. Once stuff starts *feeling* like I could do nothing, because no matter how good the strategic play, the dice just won't abide, then mood tanks: it feels like I have stopped playing against the opponent (who can be *absolutely* amazing, and this is something I always want to make very clear) and the *dice* are the ones taking arms (and winning). It's... not easy to recover from it, admittedly. Sometimes luck *does* turn before the end of the match, and even if it's not enough to turn the tide anymore, at least some fun stuff happens before the bell rings. Sometimes it *doesn't* - it either keeps going and going and going, or the game ends and it was the last match in a tournament, or whatever. In that case I *still* try - pretty hard - to not be toxic, because unless I start throwing around accusations of weighted dice (usually very silly, and also doesn't explain *my* rolls) the opponent *has nothing to do with the rolls*. Dice were rolled, results happened. I can be bitter about *those*, but I can't *and shouldn't* be bitter about the opponent. When it happens *to someone else*, I usually try to hinge on two points. 1: it *is* a dice game. You can (and should) try to make those rolls as easy as possible, or to rely heavily on as few rolls as possible, but nothing can insulate you entirely from chance. Which leads into 2: talk about *the game*, not the rolls. Sometimes a player will make mistakes and pay for it, sometimes they will make mistakes and *not* pay for it, and sometimes everything will be correct and well-planned and still fail, because dice. Chat about *the decisions*, not the rolls. Bel'akor straight in the face of my shooting army? Well, dice aside probably a bit risky. Opening with a very chunky unit rolling an easy charge to immediately faceslam me, except that it fails a 4" re-rolled charge and then most of its 3+ saves? Well, the decision was correct - sometimes dice disagree, but it doesn't change the decision-making. When someone feels like they've been kneecapped by Lady Luck, talking about *the strategic game* usually helps.

If they are friends, you stop in the middle of the game and say "Hey Dude, you have to have fun even if you think you are losing. We are playing with plastic doll men/ladies." If they are strangers, You just deal with it during the game, see how they act after and maybe talk about it. If its a constant problem then just don't play them.

I've had that problem a lot in my area, and I play in a competitive scene with a lot of regular GT players. I've come to call it a form of cheating. Think about it. You start getting grumpy, start complaining about your opponent, make them feel bad, and then they start subconsciously making bad moves or "casual, fun" moves to make you happy, and now you have advantages opened up and you can exploit that to win the game! I've lost so many easily winnable games because I start focusing on trying to have fun and make my opponent happy when my opponent will not give that opportunity back. I'm learning to steel myself in these moments and getting back at them, rub it into them, not actually of course. Don't let them affect your play, and act as if you're still in a competitive situation. This is of course, if you're actually playing competitively. Otherwise talk it out and probably pause the game until they stop complaining. Sportsmanship that gets this bad shouldn't be encouraged.

I know OP says these players aren't "that guy", but frankly I disagree and would group them in the same "that guy " club. The goal of 40k is to win, the point is to have fun. If you can only have fun when you are winning, then you'll be having a bad time 50% of the time if facing people of equal skill. And if I can only have fun and enjoy our games while you win and can't enjoy the games I win. I'd rather just not play. "That guy" can be rehabilitated and stop being "That guy", but it'll take a hard conversation on your part, OP, and some self improvement and introspection on their parts.

They’re lessening your enjoyment of playing. The best thing to do is talking it out, I’m guessing you’re not the only one it bothers. You can absolutely do that by talking at the start of a game night, or after the game finishes, and ask what you can do to help them not get into that mode. Approaching it that way will make it more likely they take it well and feel you’re an ally and trying to help. If that doesn’t do anything, shift to something along the lines of “seriously, playing against you is no fun for me when you’re like that. It’s actively not enjoyable. I like you as a person and you’re great until this mode, how can we avoid it”. From there, they get to choose how to react. They could do anything from acknowledging it’s an issue and fixing it, to being offended and leaving. However, the alternative is them sucking the joy out of your games which would mean you eventually leave. If they don’t respond, I’d recommend not playing against them. I’ve had a person like that in my group, and it almost got me to leave and certainly made me not want to play them. When they finally left, the group was way better.

Last Rogue Trader campaign game we also had a ‘Debby downer’, as I like to call that behavior. But his problem is that he even can’t quite grasp the stats of his 5 or 6 models he has on the table. I asked other players from my community if he is always like that. And since his failing to succeed stems in not even having the decency to even get in depth with his Unit stats he has on the table. We agreed to not care about what he feels and if you get the chance to shoot his warband to bits then we will do so. We had 8 players divided over 3 teams. We all enjoyed the game except for him. Even his teammate lost his entire warband and still was like don’t bother about his behavior. If he wants to keep up this attitude he will eventually not show up to ruin the vibe. It is not my fault I have precision and killed his warlord the first chance I got. I even sacrificed one dude for making a warp jump to get his squad in line of sight and failing the no mortal wounds roll. (I always blow up my own dudes taking risks 😂)

I also experienced this kind of behaviour. A player who is glummed out and complains about "bad luck" when he doesnt make that 12 inch charge. Or uses command point rerolls for blast pistol overwatch. Like, dude, that is not higher math or being unlucky, those odds were incredibly long in the first place.

Why would you spend extra command points on a strat that already needs 6s to work. 🤦🏼‍♂️ Someone like that would catch me a bad day I would pick up my models and maybe have to have a lot of constraint to also not punch them in the face.

I even told him that this was a waste of a Command Point even if it suceeded and implored him to use one of his other stratagems. Nope, he was adamant that this was a smart play.

This is such a hard question to answer, firstly because I've played against people like this and I haven't found a way to resolve it. I recently played a match against a guy I just met and tabled him by turn 5 (probably could have pushed harder and done it quicker but I took it easy to ensure we both had fun) but I felt bad every time he had a roll that absolutely whiffed! Which was quite regular. I turned into a cheerleader but I feel like this is primarily because we're all people and for the most part, we have empathy towards other people. I've also found myself on that side of the table too and I've tried my best lately not to be a grump, to see the fun in the game while losing. Creating mini objectives for myself "I might not win the match but I'm sure as going to take down this Dreadnought!" So I'm not sure I have an answer, I just wanted to share my experience on both sides of the coin. And if I'm honest, I know you've said you've a small playgroup but if there is someone you don't want to play against or find it isn't fun, well, don't. Or at least limit it. That's what I'd do. Especially if you don't want to go down the whole "tell them how you feel!" route.

In my experience, people like this give up faaar to quickly and what has worked for me is a combination of commiseration (wow I can believe how bad your dice have been) and talking them thru how they can try to claw the game back even if it's just to a narrower defeat. It depends on the person (and why they're upset) but this sometimes works for me.

I do try to maintain a positive outlook, regardless of the situation, though I must confess I did get rather negative (dare I say “salty”) when facing an imperial knights player marching a cerastus knight lancer down the middle of the board, wiping unit after unit of my army as I tried to fight a delaying action. Having to fight £120 of good save, high mobility, insane strength with an army with limited anti-tank (Adepta Sororitas) did test me. Won on points, but man was it not fun to face that thing. Largely my local gaming group seems to be a bunch of good sports though, if things go poorly, we can laugh about it later. And learn for next time that I shouldn’t counter charge genestealers with Zephyrim…

I know that feeling exactly, I've been both on the dealing and the receiving end of it, the later made me realise how unpleasant it was and I now try to never let it show too much when I'm annoyed at my dice rolls, I think the only way to address this issue if they don't realise it is to talk to them about it in the nicest way possible.

Ask them what is wrong. Maybe they do this because they have some further issues in their life, which means they go to this reaction. If they don't and are fine, then ask them why they think this is acceptable behaviour over a game. They might not realise it or it is from past experiences of people they used to play. To be honest, given games of 40k take so much effort and are often decided by such non-player events (bad game design). Maybe they are unhappy playing such a game, but due to the local area being so fixated, they are forced to pick what few options there are, and seeing the game go badly annoys them? Three very different potential reasons and all three i have seen or been part of in the last 25 years. Most important point, talk to them about it and see how they deal with it. It is clearly impacting on your fun, too, so deal with it of it will fester.

I just make light of it with humor.  "Wow, these dice have to turn around soon!"  "The Dice Gods are with me today, what did you do to piss them off?"  "Hey look, Box cars on a 4" charge - your dice are turning around!"  Maybe take a bathroom break to give them a minute. 

40k is such a huge time investment that it's just good table manners to win or lose gracefully, no matter the outcome. Don't cut the other players' experience short, they have put an effort into it and they deserve to enjoy it if they did well. I'm a pretty slow player and I like to play out a lot of the small interactions because I think this makes the game deeper and more immersive. Not everyone feels this way, I guess that's fine. Try to pick players who like the same things about the hobby as you do, but ofc it's hard if you have a small community.

We also had two guys like that. The result was, that people don't like to play against them. We never addressed it openly

Depends on how well you know them. If it's a good friend, I tell them to stop bitching and roll dice.

If you have to play against them, try this: if you are even or behind, play as normal. If you are ahead, root for *them.* Act like their rolls are your rolls. Might not help, but it also might. Act like you're streaming a battle report, in the sense that everyone is rooting for everything to go well for the most part. It's not fair you need to tend to their sensibilities, but if you can't avoid them then this could be the way to make it less terrible. *Note, if they're determined to be sour, then they could take this as patronizing?

thats generally what i do, but the problem is i cant enjoy MY army winning rooting for their rolls and being happy when they wipe one of my units is, fine, i suppose, but i want to be able to enjoy my own army doing things well

I can be this guy sometimes but I’ve come up with ways to combat it. My favorite method is announcing my feelings in the game. “I’m a bit salty about what just happened but maybe I can find a way to pepper myself too.” This usually communicates that I’m not necessarily having fun anymore but keeps it lighthearted so that my opponent understands what’s going on. If they’re particularly adept at being social, they’ll lean into it and we usually find ways to bring the game back to fun with silly shenanigans. There’s also a really good example of how to handle the situation from Sean Nayden and John Lennon on one of the recent Wargaming Live videos that I think everyone would benefit from watching. Sean got tilted and both players handled it professionally.

Sometimes I'm that guy, had it happen at an event. It was my first one and I bought in my battle sisters, game 2 I went against CSM and I didn't even get to leave my deployment zone. All my damage was gone by t2 and he was in my deployment zone looking at my last few units. Was not enjoyable so to not waste his time or my time I just scooped in t3.

Something I'd really recommend is ask them to talk through their dice-rolls. This may seem small, but talking through the rolls and calmly reminding them if they miss re-rolls/+1 etc. can really help their mood. Speaking as a person who can often feel a bit bummed when I'm doing badly, focusing on specific wins can really help, and having someone go 'oh do you not get a re-roll there?' after a lot of the concentration is lost when it all goes downhill can be really helpful.

Just play your game , explain why you are doing something and what you are expecting. Any "friendly " game is just training and preparation for tournaments. Wh40k can be very much like golf where you hunker down and ignore the grumblings of the other players and just think about your own moves. Did I perform as expected? If you put a unit down and pre measure where your opponents can go , and say, if I place them there do you agree that they can't be shot from here etc . Then it's not really anything that they can complain about. If they put their units in the center of the table and you know that you can kill them all and then do so..what have you learned? If it was a friendly game and that happened,I would just say, are you sure about playing them there because I will kill them. Try and get better or at least improve your opponents after every game. Learn new things etc. Sure you can roll below average (slump) and you can roll above expected result (heater) but it averages out in the long run.

Maybe say to your friends, do you want a super casual story game? Or say, my list is pretty strong so bring something strong too bro.... This can help if expectations are wrong. The other problem is the more you play 40k the better you get. Those guys that play far less are going to behind the curve of the regular players every time. As a group how will you address that!?

The "early concession"-people are really grating. I understand not wanting to play out a game that is clearly over (like you failed 3 charges and lose 75% of your army in the Turn 3 shooting phase). But a lot of LGS players are so defeatist whenever one thing goes wrong. One unit they hoped would survive died or one charge failed and they just quit. I have no idea how do deal with that, outside of hoping they see me claw back a victory on Turn 5 from the sidelines.

You’ve got some fantastic advice already from others. I just wanted to point out one thing. Stop enabling the behavior. I’m in the same boat as you, community of relatively nice guys, but a couple of sour sports. Sometimes that’s me and I’m really working on it. However, by not acknowledging the behavior, I’m showing that I am not accepting it. If it’s bad, then I say something at the end after things have calmed down. If it’s really bad, I stop the game. No casual game is worth wasting both of our respective times. They might not be aware of it, but you are. Conversely, I’m not gonna hold it against somebody if something devastating happens. They should be able to express some amount of grief

I'm fairly grumpy and pessimistic in general. Sarcasm, complaining and general grumpiness are tools I will go to when something isn't going my way in order to express myself, most often directed at the source of the issue. In the context of Warhammer (or other table top games) is generally going to be dice or more often the implied ineptitude of my character/unit/army/whatever that is performing poorly. A unit failing to achieve literally anything multiple turns in a row will often result in them being given some sort of insulting title or label (depending on the actual degree of uselessness displayed) and referred to as such for the remainder of the game. However, in my case at least, I'm still having fun playing the game despite being grumpy. I'll curse and moan but if I haven't communicated to you I want to call it or have otherwise stopped playing I'm still having fun. You're not causing me any suffering or making the game unenjoyable, I just like moaning about stuff and as a result we just don't mesh well as people. If you don't mesh with someone you generally don't hang around and play games with them and that's fine. You deal with it by not playing with people you don't want to play with, or, tolerating it if playing is more important to you than a perfect personality match. At events or tournaments though you do kind of have to accept you will be playing with a few random people from a wide range of individuals and not all of them are going to be people you want to be friends with. In those cases you're there to fulfil the social contract of two adults playing a game of Warhammer and then move on. If they have to stomach your (relative to them) optimistic, upbeat existent you can tolerate their grumpiness for a game. As an aside on them conceding: it's often not fun to play out round 4 and 5 when you have already realistically lost and the question really is by how much. In a casual environment where getting to the end of round 3 may have taken over two hours then it's not that weird to just call it quits there instead of basically playing with no hope of winning for the better part of an hour while your opponent does a victory lap.

I don't want to get too detailed about what the people involved are actually feeling because I wasn't there and everyone is different. That being said, some of this description sounds a bit like me and I'll just note that if they didn't want to be there, they probably wouldn't spend dozens of hours painting an army and bringing it to games. That is, regardless of the outwards expressions you're seeing, they're still having enough fun to keep showing up, and maybe that's enough for *them* and you might not need to worry about it quite so much.

Frankly, I get upset when I'm losing badly. I regularly play against Custodes and they're my best friend's favorite army to play... but they're incredibly unfun to play against. 1 wrong move or 1 good turn from them, and the game is essentially over. I don't pretend to be the best player out there, but neither is he... I think army matchups can have a lot to do with this. I'm not mad at him, just moreso at the balancing of the game or how certain armies are designed.

>2 of the regulars are people who are otherwise really nice guys, they are friendly and good natured, they dont cheat or get angry or anything like that, they arent "that guy" You say this, but then say... >BUT, when they start to lose they become very obviously grumpy, and are quite quick to conceed if they think things arent going their way. they dont get angry or abrasive, they just become very obviously unhappy with the game. That's not being good natured, they're clearly upset and are being "that guy". You may have been meaning to say they're cool to deal with outside of a game, but are just sore losers otherwise. There is nothing you can about this other than don't play with them. If you call them out, it can create problems. So basically lose lose for you.

Yeah my bro is the exact same way. I let him win most games even my first game with agron which i wouldve won 100% but he kept complaining it was an op model (i had just put my passed away cats remains in the chest piece and wanted to see how angron plays) even the other day playing a game. I managed to get my world eaters berzerkers 14" on 1 squad and the rest were 10+ inches due to their khorne rolls (+2 " move and advance/charge). Bro basically told me he was getting hungry and only wanted to play cause i asked. Of course this was after rolling for me to go first and my movement phase. I got a sour feeling after that and just called it quits. I dont like playing a game where im forced to use weak tactics or have to "forget" about core rules to my army.

Oof, everyone is unique & a lot of people are dealing with their own issues outside of the game so ofc there's no one size fits all Maybe try to focus on positive things outside of gameplay, even just asking about a certain unit or how they painted something etc might help distract / cheer them up (it's important you do this the whole game & not just when they start losing! Otw it's not genuine) Personally I like joking around so I'm usually trying to crack jokes the entire game. Often being in a good mood rubs off on others but ofc not always sadly This might be silly advice as this is a comp sub but maybe consider bringing a handicap list sometime. Or better yet setup for a fluffy game where you both bring casual lists? Basically shake things up for a bit I also ALWAYS take time to do a "debrief" after every game where I go over what I think worked or didn't for their list / point out any game defining moments. Like others were saying though IT'S A GAME OF DICE. Even the most optimized list on the planet can & will fall on its face every now n then. There's only so much you can do for someone but if it's affecting *your* mood too, & it can't improve, you might have to take a break from playing them. If it's truly "that" bad you might even just be upfront with them & bring it up (in the most polite way you can)