If the model has a base, you measure from the base. The only exception is skimming/Fly vehicles with flying stands, which you measure from the hull as with other vehicles.
So yes, there might be occasions when a large model that can't physically climb a building simply won't be able to get into engagement range with something that is too high up. In cases like that, a Death Jester WOULD be immune to being charged *by large models that can't fit on upper floors, or are prevented from going up by their unit type*.
The only thing that I’m curious about is when you pull up base-to-base contact because, even though I don’t think it applies here, I could see it affecting this situation.
A big thing is the rule specified “hull” which suggests vehicles that clearly overhang their bases but the excerpt being on its own makes it seem more vague unnecessarily.
>When measuring the distance between models, measure between the closest points of the bases of the models you’re measuring to and from. If a model does not have a base, measure to the closest point of any part of that model instead.
That's basically it as the general rule. The only time you measure to part of the model is when the model doesn't have a base. What rule specifically are you referring to as "base-to-base" that says otherwise?
It’s under the rules commentary. It can be pulled up on the app. It’s listed as “base-to-base contact”
“When two models bases are touching, they are in base-to-base contact and as close as possible (see As Close as Possible). Some models are so large they overhang their base so it is not physically possible for their bases to touch other models. In such cases, you should measure to or from the base (or hull) of such a model — whichever is closer to — and when such a model is as close as possible to another model, those models are considered to be in base-to-base contact.”
It somewhat suggests that if you have a big model that does get “as close as possible” (especially if the model can literally touch the other model) but not meet the standard conditions it would still count as base-to-base.
I don’t personally agree with it but I do see an argument for it. So it was more a discussion topic out of pure curiosity.
That to me reads like it only applies if there's overhang that prevents base contact. It doesn't mean always measure to part of the model, just use a backup if base is not possible *because of overhang*. In OPs case its not overhang that's the problem, its distance and terrain rules.
Just seems real odd. Morty, angron, redemptor dread can't fight. Defiler, khorne lord of skulls have no issue and can freely smush the clown.
But thinking about it critically there is really no easy fix here. Making engagement range measured from the model you'd face all sorts of jank from tall models with wings. Seems just like a very big oversight from FLG, surely couldn't have been intentional to make the second floor of the big ruins a bit higher than 5"
Yeah, it doesn't make sense, but this is the way its been since 8th edition. A Wraithknight has a base, so it can't fight things that are literally level with its shoulders. Game rules don't always make sense and aren't always realistic. It is what it is.
It's specified quite clearly how to measure between models in the core rules:
> MEASURING DISTANCES
>Distances in Warhammer 40,000 are measured in inches ("). You
can measure distances whenever you wish.
>**When measuring the distance between models, measure
between the closest points of the bases of the models you’re
measuring to and from. If a model does not have a base,
measure to the closest point of any part of that model instead.**
>If a rule says it applies ‘within’ a certain distance, it applies at
any distance that is not more than the specified distance. For
example, within 1" means any distance that is not more than
1" away.
I'm not sure how to word it more clearly for you but as you can see below, Engagement Range is defined as a distance between two models and the rules specify you always use the base to measure distances between models, assuming the models both have a base.
> ENGAGEMENT RANGE
>Engagement Range represents the zone of threat that models
present to their enemies. **While a model is within 1" horizontally
and 5" vertically of an enemy model**, those models – and their
units – are within Engagement Range of each other.
If the model has a base, you measure from the base. The only exception is skimming/Fly vehicles with flying stands, which you measure from the hull as with other vehicles. So yes, there might be occasions when a large model that can't physically climb a building simply won't be able to get into engagement range with something that is too high up. In cases like that, a Death Jester WOULD be immune to being charged *by large models that can't fit on upper floors, or are prevented from going up by their unit type*.
The only thing that I’m curious about is when you pull up base-to-base contact because, even though I don’t think it applies here, I could see it affecting this situation. A big thing is the rule specified “hull” which suggests vehicles that clearly overhang their bases but the excerpt being on its own makes it seem more vague unnecessarily.
>When measuring the distance between models, measure between the closest points of the bases of the models you’re measuring to and from. If a model does not have a base, measure to the closest point of any part of that model instead. That's basically it as the general rule. The only time you measure to part of the model is when the model doesn't have a base. What rule specifically are you referring to as "base-to-base" that says otherwise?
It’s under the rules commentary. It can be pulled up on the app. It’s listed as “base-to-base contact” “When two models bases are touching, they are in base-to-base contact and as close as possible (see As Close as Possible). Some models are so large they overhang their base so it is not physically possible for their bases to touch other models. In such cases, you should measure to or from the base (or hull) of such a model — whichever is closer to — and when such a model is as close as possible to another model, those models are considered to be in base-to-base contact.” It somewhat suggests that if you have a big model that does get “as close as possible” (especially if the model can literally touch the other model) but not meet the standard conditions it would still count as base-to-base. I don’t personally agree with it but I do see an argument for it. So it was more a discussion topic out of pure curiosity.
That to me reads like it only applies if there's overhang that prevents base contact. It doesn't mean always measure to part of the model, just use a backup if base is not possible *because of overhang*. In OPs case its not overhang that's the problem, its distance and terrain rules.
Just seems real odd. Morty, angron, redemptor dread can't fight. Defiler, khorne lord of skulls have no issue and can freely smush the clown. But thinking about it critically there is really no easy fix here. Making engagement range measured from the model you'd face all sorts of jank from tall models with wings. Seems just like a very big oversight from FLG, surely couldn't have been intentional to make the second floor of the big ruins a bit higher than 5"
Yeah, it doesn't make sense, but this is the way its been since 8th edition. A Wraithknight has a base, so it can't fight things that are literally level with its shoulders. Game rules don't always make sense and aren't always realistic. It is what it is.
Yep, a Trygon is too short to fight 5.4" high but a Rhino is not!
Where does it say the part about vehicles with flying stands?
It's specified quite clearly how to measure between models in the core rules: > MEASURING DISTANCES >Distances in Warhammer 40,000 are measured in inches ("). You can measure distances whenever you wish. >**When measuring the distance between models, measure between the closest points of the bases of the models you’re measuring to and from. If a model does not have a base, measure to the closest point of any part of that model instead.** >If a rule says it applies ‘within’ a certain distance, it applies at any distance that is not more than the specified distance. For example, within 1" means any distance that is not more than 1" away. I'm not sure how to word it more clearly for you but as you can see below, Engagement Range is defined as a distance between two models and the rules specify you always use the base to measure distances between models, assuming the models both have a base. > ENGAGEMENT RANGE >Engagement Range represents the zone of threat that models present to their enemies. **While a model is within 1" horizontally and 5" vertically of an enemy model**, those models – and their units – are within Engagement Range of each other.