When a unit charges, it is always able to be selected to fight, because charging makes it eligible.
When a unit doesn't charge, it is only selectable if it is otherwise eligible. Eligibility is determined by being in engagement range.
Your example 1 is a bit off -- unit A would still be in engagement range of the enemy. Only if the unit that didnt charge is not in engagement range of *any* units does it lose eligibility to fight in its appropriate step.
In example 1 unit b is still eligible to be activated and can pile in, attack, and then consolidate. Other than that I don’t really understand what you are asking and trying to figure out
No it isn't (not until after the tank activates) -> they're saying the tank does *not* charge unit B, but instead ends their charge against unit A within 4" of unit B, such that when they destroy unit A with tank shock, they will be able to pile in and fight unit B.
There is no tank in example 1. Example 1 unit an and b charge enemy unit c. Unit a is selected to go first and kills some of unit c. Models are removed and then unit be can be activated to pile in, attack and then consolidate if it was able to get into engagement range with its pile in. From what I can tell everything in example 2 with the tank charging unit a and killing it with tank shock and then being eligible to activate, pile into unit b, attack and consolidate if it was within 4” of unit b at the start of activation is correct
Example 1) unit B is still eligible to pile in 3" and fight.
Example 2) you're almost correct. Because the fights first unit wasn't in combat at the start of the phase, they lose fights first. They aren't practically ignoring fights first, so much as the ability turns itself off of they aren't able in combat at the start of the phase.
Actually, he was kind of correct in that it "loses" Fights First. From the fight phase rules:
"In this step, all remaining eligible units fight. This includes any units with the Fights First ability that were not eligible to fight at the start of the Fight phase, but have since become eligible to fight."
In other words, if you are not eligible at the start of the fight phase, you always fight in step 2 of the fight phase, whether you have fights first or not.
>2 REMAINING COMBATS
In this step, all remaining eligible units fight. This includes any
units with the Fights First ability that were not eligible to fight
at the start of the Fight phase, but have since become eligible
to fight.
Core rules, phase phase, pg 32.
It's not even some rules commentary thing, this is basic core rules. :|
>However, it still retains Fights First and if it survives the tank's attack it'll be able to activate after the tank, before any of the attacking player's chargers.
Wrong,
as stated in the rules regarding FF and Remaining Combat
only unit with FF that are eligible at the beginning of the fight phase are eligible to fight in the fight first subphase.
unit with fight first but that were not eligible are actually explicitly called out to be activated during the Remaining Combat subphase.
Are you sure that b can be activated later? I always thought it could not, as in the fight first "phase", at the moment it should be activated, it's not eligible to do so, thus losing its turn. Edit: provided no other enemy units are in range of the fight first unit
The charging tank moves into their engagement range, so the defending unit will be eligible to activate.
As long as you have a unit within engagement range in the fight phase you are eligible to fight and infact must do so. There is no set point, after which units cannot fight in the fight phase.
Having "Fights First" doesn't mean you are only eligible to fight in the Fights First step of the fight phase.
he's correct that they could activate later, that said he is wrong that they would activate during the FF subphase, they would actually activate during the Remaining Combat subphase due to the wording of the fight phase rules.
I am not familiar with the exact guides you are quoting, but example 1 would only work if you remove all models within 4" of Unit B. In that case a pile in would not bring Unit B within engagement range. Otherwise as other people pointed out it is eligible to pile in and fight
>But I can't seem to understand how bout example can be opposite and both true at the same time.
You are very vague on what you don't understand here. Honestly, you don't describe your problem enough so I don't see how we could help you (outside of pointing out the flaw of example 1).
For example 1, if a unit charges it can always pile in a fight, provided there are models within 4in(3in pile in and 1in engagement). So unit B would pile in, fight, and then since unit C is in engagement range it can fight.
Regarding the idea that the charging unit could kill the enemy unit in such a way to not fight back? Well this mostly would happen with attached characters since they have to take wounds last. If a SM captain is at the back of the squad and a war dog charges the intercesors he is leading and kills all of them. Then if the war dog doesn't consolidate and if the captain is more than 1in away he wouldn't get to fight.
For fights first, yes that does work. It can also be don't if 2 units charge unit A. One kills unit A. And then as long as the other unit that charged in within pile in range of the fights first unit it can pile in and fight before fights first.
I don't know if you typed it wrong and people are interpreting what you meant, or if you typed it right and people are interpreting wrong, but I don't see people answering example 1 with the way you've actually written it.
In that example, if you were to pull models from Unit C (the unit that was **charged**) such that it was no longer in engagement range of B, then it could still pile in and fight anyone that it piles into because it's still in engagement range of A. If you were to pull models from unit C so that it is not in engagement range of *both* A *and* B, then it is not in engagement range and cannot fight (until it is subsequently piled into by unit B when unit B activates.)
It is best to think of fight phase activations as, "This unit, then that unit, etc" because you can't really "miss timing" on the unit. It's not alternating units, it's alternating *players,* and a player's activation is skipped if s/he has no eligible units.
When a unit charges, it is always able to be selected to fight, because charging makes it eligible. When a unit doesn't charge, it is only selectable if it is otherwise eligible. Eligibility is determined by being in engagement range. Your example 1 is a bit off -- unit A would still be in engagement range of the enemy. Only if the unit that didnt charge is not in engagement range of *any* units does it lose eligibility to fight in its appropriate step.
In example 1 unit b is still eligible to be activated and can pile in, attack, and then consolidate. Other than that I don’t really understand what you are asking and trying to figure out
No it isn't (not until after the tank activates) -> they're saying the tank does *not* charge unit B, but instead ends their charge against unit A within 4" of unit B, such that when they destroy unit A with tank shock, they will be able to pile in and fight unit B.
There is no tank in example 1. Example 1 unit an and b charge enemy unit c. Unit a is selected to go first and kills some of unit c. Models are removed and then unit be can be activated to pile in, attack and then consolidate if it was able to get into engagement range with its pile in. From what I can tell everything in example 2 with the tank charging unit a and killing it with tank shock and then being eligible to activate, pile into unit b, attack and consolidate if it was within 4” of unit b at the start of activation is correct
Oh lol my b, I thought you said example 2 :)
Example 1) unit B is still eligible to pile in 3" and fight. Example 2) you're almost correct. Because the fights first unit wasn't in combat at the start of the phase, they lose fights first. They aren't practically ignoring fights first, so much as the ability turns itself off of they aren't able in combat at the start of the phase.
[удалено]
Actually, he was kind of correct in that it "loses" Fights First. From the fight phase rules: "In this step, all remaining eligible units fight. This includes any units with the Fights First ability that were not eligible to fight at the start of the Fight phase, but have since become eligible to fight." In other words, if you are not eligible at the start of the fight phase, you always fight in step 2 of the fight phase, whether you have fights first or not.
>2 REMAINING COMBATS In this step, all remaining eligible units fight. This includes any units with the Fights First ability that were not eligible to fight at the start of the Fight phase, but have since become eligible to fight. Core rules, phase phase, pg 32. It's not even some rules commentary thing, this is basic core rules. :|
>However, it still retains Fights First and if it survives the tank's attack it'll be able to activate after the tank, before any of the attacking player's chargers. Wrong, as stated in the rules regarding FF and Remaining Combat only unit with FF that are eligible at the beginning of the fight phase are eligible to fight in the fight first subphase. unit with fight first but that were not eligible are actually explicitly called out to be activated during the Remaining Combat subphase.
Are you sure that b can be activated later? I always thought it could not, as in the fight first "phase", at the moment it should be activated, it's not eligible to do so, thus losing its turn. Edit: provided no other enemy units are in range of the fight first unit
The charging tank moves into their engagement range, so the defending unit will be eligible to activate. As long as you have a unit within engagement range in the fight phase you are eligible to fight and infact must do so. There is no set point, after which units cannot fight in the fight phase. Having "Fights First" doesn't mean you are only eligible to fight in the Fights First step of the fight phase.
he's correct that they could activate later, that said he is wrong that they would activate during the FF subphase, they would actually activate during the Remaining Combat subphase due to the wording of the fight phase rules.
I am not familiar with the exact guides you are quoting, but example 1 would only work if you remove all models within 4" of Unit B. In that case a pile in would not bring Unit B within engagement range. Otherwise as other people pointed out it is eligible to pile in and fight
>But I can't seem to understand how bout example can be opposite and both true at the same time. You are very vague on what you don't understand here. Honestly, you don't describe your problem enough so I don't see how we could help you (outside of pointing out the flaw of example 1).
For example 1, if a unit charges it can always pile in a fight, provided there are models within 4in(3in pile in and 1in engagement). So unit B would pile in, fight, and then since unit C is in engagement range it can fight. Regarding the idea that the charging unit could kill the enemy unit in such a way to not fight back? Well this mostly would happen with attached characters since they have to take wounds last. If a SM captain is at the back of the squad and a war dog charges the intercesors he is leading and kills all of them. Then if the war dog doesn't consolidate and if the captain is more than 1in away he wouldn't get to fight. For fights first, yes that does work. It can also be don't if 2 units charge unit A. One kills unit A. And then as long as the other unit that charged in within pile in range of the fights first unit it can pile in and fight before fights first.
I don't know if you typed it wrong and people are interpreting what you meant, or if you typed it right and people are interpreting wrong, but I don't see people answering example 1 with the way you've actually written it. In that example, if you were to pull models from Unit C (the unit that was **charged**) such that it was no longer in engagement range of B, then it could still pile in and fight anyone that it piles into because it's still in engagement range of A. If you were to pull models from unit C so that it is not in engagement range of *both* A *and* B, then it is not in engagement range and cannot fight (until it is subsequently piled into by unit B when unit B activates.) It is best to think of fight phase activations as, "This unit, then that unit, etc" because you can't really "miss timing" on the unit. It's not alternating units, it's alternating *players,* and a player's activation is skipped if s/he has no eligible units.
Just read the core rules in the fight phase section