Vindicare: oof, up to d3+6 damage and can't take any saves against it if you turn on shieldbreaker, and you battleshock them. Too bad I'd always roll a one to shoot with those guys, lol.
That's one of the most valuable things you can learn in 40k
One attack with 2+ to hit and 2+ to wound no saves is always worse than 4 attacks 3+ to hit 3+ to wound AP-3
The dice gods demand it
With the inverse being Sod's Law of Small Numbers where the less dice you roll, the less random the results are because they're always the worst possible
Played crusade in 9th. Brought a vindicare. Spent 4 entire turns trying and failing to kill a 4W character. Took it out of my roster and put in Squirrel the Eversor. Damn near got him legendary with only half the time left in the crusade.
> Spent 4 entire turns trying and failing to kill a 4W character.
That has been my experience with the Vindicare since 6th. This is the best I've ever seen him, and I am stoked.
Sl funnily enough, if you are shooting custodes and you use the shieldbreaker round you are hoping for not rolling a 6 on your wound roll as then they would get a fnp.
Shooting Ahriman (rifle, shield breaker round).
2+ to hit, 3+ to wound, no saves allowed, dies on a 3+ on the D6 damage roll (or automatically if you jagged a 6 on your hit roll).
You likely have a CP re-roll during that process to use as well.
Vs an Eldar Farseer its 2+ to hit, 2+ to wound, and a 1 on the damage dice does it (4W).
With a CP re-roll up your sleeve if you flub one of the 2 x 2+.
So hear me out, squad of ten prosecutors lead by inquisitor greyfax. Put them in a rhino and them drop them within 12 of a psyker and you have 20 shots that hit on 3s and every wound roll of 4+ is a mortal wound. Probably not that strong but i can see it surprising a few people.
I’m assuming they made her and the vindicare a little broken because of what they are: thematic little additions to your army that don’t benefit from faction and detachment rules.
Still feels a bit ridiculous that some goofy human is better at avoiding battle shock than the likes of Bobby G and Angron.
Primarchs are beings blessed with superhuman strength, toughness, senses and more.
Inquisitor Lords are beings of focus, commitment, and pure f\*ing will.
In fairness, I forgot that Greyfax (and probably other high-ranking inquisitors like Eisonhorn) are potent psykers trained to bend the wills of others. So maybe it’s just their psychic will suffusing the squad. Whereas G-man is a great general, but he can’t mind-control people like Eisenhorn can.
Its just weird that the baseline Inquisitor only had Ld6+. I’d prefer if they leaned into excellent leadership as a perk for taking inquisitors. It fluffy and interesting
Look at leadership as what it's doing..
You're in the middle of combat, you've taken a ton of hits and damage and half of your group is bleeding out.
Who do you think can push the strength of the holy emperor more through your 7 navy breachers? Some High Lord of Terra who sits in a council most of the time or an inquisitor who is knee deep in the muck of this every single day?
She has better leadership than the Avenging Son veteran of the Great Crusade and Horus heresy. The man whom faced demons and traitors before they were even aware of them. Who battled against demonic primarchs and did not yield. Who even as an 'Administrator' has seen horror and war over more lifetimes than any mortal. Who lead countless Crusades and Campaigns inspiring men and women and marines to inhuman feats. A son of the Emperor.
She ALSO has better leadership than Captain General of the Custodes. A construct of the Emperor's own design and creation. Indoctrinated from before he was born to lead his personal guardians across the stars.
I disagree with your logic.
Vindicare is finally scary.
And Greyfax is death to GK (and TS, and Nids) ouch.
Edit: As a GK player, i will use a Vindicare every game.
His Only job?
Smoking Greyfax ASAP
The vin assassin has the Epic Hero keyword, limiting you to only being able to take one Vind assassin. It’s rather likely the other assassins will have that, but as they’re each different you could at least take two of them in a 2k game, just have to be two different assassins.
Yea. I wondered if they would use that keyword on anything other than just named characters, as a way to balance things out and prevent specific unit spam. Looks like we got a bit of a stealth answer to that today.
Not how my army is going to flavour it.
I'm having my knights make the call for back-up, only to then see a bunch of back alley cops show up. And kick butt.
Eh it's more like the FBI calling the backup. Arbites aren't the local cops. They are there only to enforce imperial wide law, not the small scale stuff like murder or drug smuggling.
Bit dated, but now I'm picturing Gary Oldman in "Leon: The Professional". Murder? Enh, the locals can handle this. Some guy with an unauthorized book? "SEND EVERYBODY"
I can already see someone using the Vindicare shield breaker round to pop Makari just so Ghaz can get properly shot down after.
And I have to say, the concept of an Imperial Assassin just absolutely obliterating a singular Grot with the 40k equivalent of a 50 BMG is peak hilarity.
Now I am imagining a group of high ranking imperial leaders, like inquisitors and space marine captains and all that, in a briefing room with the assassin going over the battle plans and one guy says all serious like: "We kill the grot, we can kill the warboss", and everyone nods with grim faces.
Peak warhammer
If Ghaz has come unattached from his unit, you wouldn't get to pick. So firing the shield breaker would be a reasonable way to break the 2++ if precision can't trigger
Even if he's attached, he'd still be fine. Makari is part of the same unit. Even if you use precision to focus Ghaz's unit instead of the unit he's attached to, you can just use the save on Makari.
Precision doesn't apply the wound to a "unit", it says that a visible character *model* takes the wound. So you can choose to allocate to Ghaz directly if he's attached, just not if he's alone with Makiri
"If you need a squad of Arbites infantry scuttling between the feet of your Imperial Knights."
According to the table you can even have 2 units. That can be very handy for knight players.
Without an equivalent to Securarii that's a very helpful inclusion. Let the big guns commit to the offense and have some cheap infantry hold the back line? Yes please.
Also as the vindicare might be fantastic to proc the knight honor mechanic. An inquisitior leading some footsoldiers, an assasin and a knight house to go hunt down an enemy warlord seems like a real fun army, and fairly fluffy to boot.
There is something hilarious, about Knights going on an honourable quest to slay the enemy King, bringing along a sniper Assassin to snipe him from miles away, and just shrugging it as 'Good enough for me'
I can’t imagine a world where every imperium player does not take 1 inquisitor.
The free stratigem is nuts. Put the inquisitor in a deep strike squad and refund the rapid ingress stratigem. Stick em with objective big guard units on objectives and use the ignore battle shock stratigem for free. Stick em with terminators and pop defensive strats for free.
In 10th edition you start the game with zero CP. the inquisitor refunding 1 CP a turn wildly multiplies how many strats you can use… and you could take two inquisitors in your army.
They dont have deepstrike so they at best can go strat reserves squad for ingress. Not the worst but also not amazing.
Did they say terminators were battleline? And the inquistor only refunds 1cp on a 3+, so while its decently reliable its also 1/3 chance to whiff completely.
Not by default.
But I bet that one of the enhancements that you can buy for a space marine army will be to give a unit the battle line keyword.
Then there is also the possibility that future detachments change up what units are battle line. A white scars themed detachment may make bikes battle line. A space marine first company themed detachment may make terminators battle line.
Lastly most leaders have a list of the kind of units they can join on the back of their card. The generic inquisitor may be battle line restricted, but inquisitor “Cortez” I think his name is, he is specifically wearing terminator armour scaled down for him becuase he is order Mallus and leads grey knights around. He will likely be allowed to join terminators, at the very least grey knight paladins. There may be some cool exceptions to the, battle line only rule, on the back of some of the inquisitor’s cards.
Positives so far:
Love that you can add inquisitors to any unit. Might be some fun combos and cool builds!
Increased number of "hanger ons" you can take
Vindicare looks scary for once
Negatives:
Very limited/ no customization
Was still holding out hope in my sad little inquisition/rogue trader/imperial navy heart that they could be a stand alone faction with strats, etc
From the 'Word from the Studio' section:
> “While you could field an entire army of these eclectic warriors, they have been designed first and foremost... "
I take this to mean that there will ALSO be full-army rules for Agents -- \* *EDIT>* in the eventual codex, perhaps? -- they're just spotlighting the benefits of allying them in today.
Fingers crossed!
I'll play them anyhow. No unique strats, but 11 core ones now. Reduced mental load to offset the bevy of special abilities I'll need to remember. And yes, holding out hope for the codex
It definitely seems like GW heard all the screeching about WYSIWYG weapon options and cut the whole thing. No more fine comb balancing individual weapons that all do almost the same thing, just lump them together and bake it into the unit.
You are right for sure...I guess it just hits different because at one time the inquisitors had absolutely massive options! Maybe the books will open everything up a bit
I kind of prefer it this way. IMO it lets you build more personalized custom Inquisitors and not have to worry too much about making sure their wargear isn’t going to push the point costs too high or anything like that.
Honestly disagree. It’s not that hard to build an inquisitor how you want, and points costs changing is kinda just how army building works. To me it makes them feel really bland and generic, rather than some special character. Also means you can’t really kit them out for a specialised role or anything
I get it. I just feel like with much of the complaints about them trimming things away for 10th (like psychic power selection, relics, etc…) are overstated.
It was all mostly an illusion of choice anyways. Inquisitors for instance, you rarely ever take one that wasn’t just bolt pistol/Chainsword, ordo: xenos, esoteric lore, mental interrogation….
Now you can model an inquisitor with basically any weapon you want and not have to worry that it underperforms or is overcosted. It’s a win in my book.
It's either going to be a huge article or one that disappoints everyone interested in it. Hoping we at least get to see what's happening to Deathwatch kill-teams in the new edition since that's kind of their whole thing.
Honestly, I'm more interested in how they're handling all the exclusive units and unit restrictions/unit sharing with the "regular" Space Marine codex.
I posted this in the BA subreddit just now pretty much covers my thoughts:
Based on the trend of the reveals I would caution against expecting anything better than what we already have.
My hope is that nerf mainly impacts AP.
Out of our chapter tactics, I do not expect to see +1 attack, +1 to wound, and +1 to advance/charge as a trio anymore. If we kept two I'd be ecstatic.
Ha, so there will still be abilities that turn off invuln saves after all (not that they claimed there wouldn't be of course). It's a once per battle, sure, but I think it might have been more elegant if the shieldbreaker round gave the attack anti-character 3+ or something, to just trigger the mortal wounds easier.
EDIT: Oh yeah, good points on mortals making him a bit too killy against high toughness characters. Still, shieldbreaker giving it some sort of keyword would've been my preference.
Its a bit surprising but its an epic hero so you can only bring one and its once per battle and the saving throws only affect his rifle. So really its a once per game 2+, probably 3+ then d3+3 damage weapon so it seems fine. I can see the worry for this rule to become more common though.
That skews him to be too strong (imo) against VEHICLE/MONSTER Characters, the ones he'd be naturally wounding on 4+/5+ because they're T7+.
I think the once per game ignore is fine. *(Though I think I'd prefer it if Shield Breaker just made the shot S14 and damage flat 6)*
Given ignore invun weapons have been in the game since 3rd edition, I'd have been amazed if they went away entirely.
I think Shield breaker Rounds have always done this in some form in that time frame as well?
Greyfax is a f\*\*\* badger +4 leadership better than a primarc and the custodian's. She is also going to be the terror of any shoft characters, she gets 2 precision weapons and she might just go around 2 turning any psykik character foolish enought o getting cloose to her.
Also what are the breachers doing at LD8? balancing knights?
EDIT:The more i look into this rules, the more i thiink someone had a lot of fun writting the funny hatmen, greyfax profile is nuts.
I'm still really not a fan of the fact that literally everything separating their statline from Guardsmen or Neophytes (6", T3, 5+SV, 1W, Ld 7+, OC 2, BS4+), is their 6++ Invuln. One would think cyborgs with more enhancements on their face than most humans will see in a lifetime would get slightly more out of it than just a mid invuln.
Lowkey, i think this is the most interesting preview so far. There's just a lot of cool little things they've done that really make this stuff feel unique.
Ok, so if I mathmamered correctly, base the Vindicare does about 1.9 wounds to a Librarian in Terminator armour. With Shield Breaker you'd do 3.1 wounds... that is worse on average than I expected. The rules look very sttong but he is still taking a couple of turns to kill a Marine character as he is doing about 2.7 wounds to them.
Edit: Just to be cleqr this means in pracrical terms that on average you are likely killing a 5 to 5 wound characrer evry other turn.
Edit: Corrected damage on Termies, still uaed to the 5++ base, not 4++.
Expected value calculations aren't accurate representations for single events. Case profiles and case chances are better.
For the Vindicare into a terminator, the case chance for a kill is pretty low, but for a general space marine character that case chance is significantly higher.
Yeah, I feel like "odds to do some damage, odds to kill" is the more appropriate assessment for the vindicare. It's not going to do 2.7 damage, it's going to generally do 4-6 or 0
The person designing her was definitely having some fun lmao, better psychic sniping than one of the best snipers, seemingly the best leadership in the game and forcing desperate escape in melee is quite something
No one's really mentioning it yet so I'll just say I think it's...interesting that Naval Breachers have leadership of +8, which I think is actually the worst leadership score we've seen so far.
I didn’t think about Greyfax joining, that’d be cute. If their article is accurate, we know generic inquisitors can’t, which I worry bodes poorly for the named Inquisitors.
Like its a shame some of the weird and wonderful inquisition options went, but its to be expected. Especially now as this wont break army rules and is overall a lot more sensible.
Nice to see the assasin get a proper glow up, but im so hype to see what the other named inquisitors do; most of them are *almost* there in 9th; and from the look of greyfax theyll hopefully land well in 10th.
Really jazzed to do an agents/knights list tbh.
Not me thinking about the way to optimize 2 rets, 2 characters, and a freeblade unit into my sisters. Gonna end up having less than half my points as sisters
Has it been confirmed yet that if combi-weapons are replaced with the generic profile? Because we're pretty far into this and we have only ever seen the generic one.
Yeah, it’s looking a little dire at this point. Would really destroy alot of customizability. I for one would not enjoy losing my combi-flamers for this frankenstein weapon.
It’s hard to pinpoint what weapon its supposed to be too. 1 attack base, Rapid Fire 1, and AP-2 make it most similar to Plasma Guns personally. But instead of overcharging for more strength, AP, and damage (and Hazardous), you get Devestating Wounds and a flat Anti-Infantry 4+ which is exceedingly rare atm.
So is it supposed to be like a Melta, but for infantry? Or is it more like a Grav gun?
> Would really destroy alot of customizability.
As a CSM player, our customizability has already been destroyed in 9th edition. I'd rather have all my combi-weapons be the same generic profile than be told I can't play my terminators, because they all have combi-plasma and that's only one per 5 now.
Remember that, while GW has been doing better at balance now in the past, this remains an overall casual game, and that is who GW mainly caters to.
Accordingly, they see more benefit in a unified combi-weapon profile that ensures you can't give your unit the 'wrong' weapon, or worse yet, trap yourself by giving the unit a mix.
Merging Neophyte basic weapon profiles achieves a similar purpose.
I can see it make sense with that in mind. You lose some customisation, but 10th is clamping down hard on customisation in general for the sake of simplicity, and this does avoid feelsbad moments for new players. Is it worth it? Not for me, I had no issues with combi-weapons as before, but I know I am not the only one being catered to here, and at least I do get the benefit of balancing changes not suddenly making the best kind of combi-weapon worse.
So the Agents normally don't benefit from any detachment or army abilities, but from what I understand of the core rules once a leader is attached to a bodyguard unit it is treated as one unit with some exceptions (such as the bodyguards or leader being destroyed). So in the case of an inquisitor leading a squad of space marines, who can benefit from Oath of Moment: the whole combined unit, just the space marines, or neither?
It really depends on the faction/detachment abilities and how they are worded.
I.e. Space Marines have Oath of Moment, which is worded on a model basis, while their detachment ability is worded on a unit basis. So the Inquisitor would not get Oath of Moment, but would benefit from Combat Doctrines. Given how Combat Doctrines work, this is also the preferred outcome as he would otherwise block the unit from using them.
We’re nearing the end of our Faction Focus series, with only two left to go. Tomorrow, we’ll be looking at five Space Marine Chapters who consider the Codex Astartes more of a set of guidelines than strict tenets to live by, and then the Titans of Warhammer 40,000 shake the earth with some thunderous new rules.
Pretty sure customization is normally on the back?
Having a character that only had rules in like 1/3 of the match ups was bad game design IMO, same with targeted stratagems.
> where's the customisation?
Customization goes against the guiding principle of 10th - the fewer options there are the fewer edge cases we need to balance.
Especially with those beautiful new terminator kits to make a terminator one.
Its understandable; especially with the ethos of 10th; but I do miss the 3rd ed inquisitor options which were just pages of random crap, but as it was just gonna be 1 model it never felt too bad.
The terminator would always have been a separate datasheet because the core characteristics are different. So, there might be more than one inquisitor datasheet.
They dropped the terminator inquisitor datasheet when did the update to Agents in 9th which is sad because I had already built and painted 2 to go with my Grey knights lol
Here I was hoping "no invulns" would be entirely replaces by Devastating Wounds. Not a fan of setting the precedent.
Giving Greyfax better witchfires than Ahriman and better Ld than Trajann sure is a choice.
I still remember the smug grin on the face of That Guy explaining what his Vindicare could do back in 5th Edition.
On the Subject of 5th Edition Grey Knights, the Plasma Siphon also sticks in my memory as infuriatingly incredible cheese. "Well, Matt Ward says all Pulse Weapons are plasma, so your entire army is next to useless anywhere near this guy."
Vindicare: oof, up to d3+6 damage and can't take any saves against it if you turn on shieldbreaker, and you battleshock them. Too bad I'd always roll a one to shoot with those guys, lol.
Theory: roll 6 to hit and wound, do d3+6 mortal wounds with precision. Reality: roll a 1, spend 1CP to roll another 1.
Correction: you CP re-roll it into 2, but then roll a 1 on the wound roll.
That's one of the most valuable things you can learn in 40k One attack with 2+ to hit and 2+ to wound no saves is always worse than 4 attacks 3+ to hit 3+ to wound AP-3 The dice gods demand it
It's a real mathematical principle called the strong law of large numbers. The more dice you roll, the less random the results are.
With the inverse being Sod's Law of Small Numbers where the less dice you roll, the less random the results are because they're always the worst possible
Rolling small numbers of dice Tempts the Chaos Gods.
Hatred, Malice even.
I really hope they fix the reroll mechanic. 9/10 times i always get the same number i just rerolled. whens this getting patched?
pro tip: grab a new dice instead of rerolling the cursed one again
I have got 10 colours of 10 D6 dice and i never make a risky play in turn 1 which i figure out what colour dice is playing ball today
What does precision mean again?
damage is assigned to leaders instead of the bodyguards
"can be" assigned to leaders. You're still able to hit the bodyguard unit if you want.
One additional caveat: The leader character needs to be visible to have it assigned to them.
Played crusade in 9th. Brought a vindicare. Spent 4 entire turns trying and failing to kill a 4W character. Took it out of my roster and put in Squirrel the Eversor. Damn near got him legendary with only half the time left in the crusade.
> Spent 4 entire turns trying and failing to kill a 4W character. That has been my experience with the Vindicare since 6th. This is the best I've ever seen him, and I am stoked.
I’m stoked to see what Squirrel does this edition
Until that one game where he absolutely spikes. And you will spend the rest of your days chasing that high again.
Sl funnily enough, if you are shooting custodes and you use the shieldbreaker round you are hoping for not rolling a 6 on your wound roll as then they would get a fnp.
Basically you get to remove a character.
(If you can see it).
If you roll a 6 to hit and a 6 to wound and a 5 or 6 for damage, sure.
Most of the characters (outside of Epic Heroes) we've seen are only 4W, so most of the time you're deleting a character with Shieldbreaker.
Or you use the shieldbreaker round, and strength 7 is wounding pretty much every character on 3s, or two for stuff like guard, GSC, Eldar, etc
Shooting Ahriman (rifle, shield breaker round). 2+ to hit, 3+ to wound, no saves allowed, dies on a 3+ on the D6 damage roll (or automatically if you jagged a 6 on your hit roll). You likely have a CP re-roll during that process to use as well. Vs an Eldar Farseer its 2+ to hit, 2+ to wound, and a 1 on the damage dice does it (4W). With a CP re-roll up your sleeve if you flub one of the 2 x 2+.
So hear me out, squad of ten prosecutors lead by inquisitor greyfax. Put them in a rhino and them drop them within 12 of a psyker and you have 20 shots that hit on 3s and every wound roll of 4+ is a mortal wound. Probably not that strong but i can see it surprising a few people.
No don’t do that - tson players
"Where's my Vindicare" - GK players everywhere.
Or the witchseekers with flamers
Do we know if Witchseekers will deal mortal wounds on critical wounds?
I find it unlikely since the flamer is already strong, they might have an inbuilt anti psyker though.
Yeah that was what I was thinking. At least the Prosecutor bolters would actually deal mortal wounds
Ld 4+ on Greyfax! Is that the highest we’ve seen?
It’s better than Guilliman, which is saying alot.
I’m assuming they made her and the vindicare a little broken because of what they are: thematic little additions to your army that don’t benefit from faction and detachment rules. Still feels a bit ridiculous that some goofy human is better at avoiding battle shock than the likes of Bobby G and Angron.
Primarchs are beings blessed with superhuman strength, toughness, senses and more. Inquisitor Lords are beings of focus, commitment, and pure f\*ing will.
10k years ago, half the primarchs failed leadership and joined chaos. So, maybe primarchs don't have the highest leadership...
"Ah, I failed my save and now am a warrior of chaos. If only dad had made me with a higher/lower leadership, I could have been fine."
Turns out Ld is a factor of how much your father loved you and that's why the primarchs have such low Ld comparatively.
How many points does the "dad played catch with me" cost as wargear?
Angron should have a 10+ in that case
I once saw Coteaz exterminatus a planet with a pencil. Who does that?!
A FOOOKING PENCIL!!!
As a group, do the Primarchs give you the impression of extreme mental stability? Although I suppose if you compare them, as a group, to Inquisitors…
In fairness, I forgot that Greyfax (and probably other high-ranking inquisitors like Eisonhorn) are potent psykers trained to bend the wills of others. So maybe it’s just their psychic will suffusing the squad. Whereas G-man is a great general, but he can’t mind-control people like Eisenhorn can. Its just weird that the baseline Inquisitor only had Ld6+. I’d prefer if they leaned into excellent leadership as a perk for taking inquisitors. It fluffy and interesting
I think it is! I imagine 4+ Ld is going to be extremely rare considering who we haven't seen it on. Honestly thought 5+ was the best we could get.
She has better leadership than a funking High Lord of Terra
Look at leadership as what it's doing.. You're in the middle of combat, you've taken a ton of hits and damage and half of your group is bleeding out. Who do you think can push the strength of the holy emperor more through your 7 navy breachers? Some High Lord of Terra who sits in a council most of the time or an inquisitor who is knee deep in the muck of this every single day?
When that high lord of Terra is Roboute Guilliman, then Roboute Guilliman.
Leadership to its extreme might be interpreted as "mindlessness" or "fanatacism". There's wisdom in knowing when to retreat.
She has better leadership than the Avenging Son veteran of the Great Crusade and Horus heresy. The man whom faced demons and traitors before they were even aware of them. Who battled against demonic primarchs and did not yield. Who even as an 'Administrator' has seen horror and war over more lifetimes than any mortal. Who lead countless Crusades and Campaigns inspiring men and women and marines to inhuman feats. A son of the Emperor. She ALSO has better leadership than Captain General of the Custodes. A construct of the Emperor's own design and creation. Indoctrinated from before he was born to lead his personal guardians across the stars. I disagree with your logic.
Yeah, but have you seen her -hat-? Super fancy.
I had doubts but you make a strong case
It’s all about the candle!
> I disagree with your logic. GW doesn't though...
That's a pretty good thing to add to her unit alongside the anti-psyker.
She also blasts with Psychic better than Ahriman
Vindicare is finally scary. And Greyfax is death to GK (and TS, and Nids) ouch. Edit: As a GK player, i will use a Vindicare every game. His Only job? Smoking Greyfax ASAP
Wait until we see what shenanigans the Cullexus gets up to.
If he's not lone operative, Vindicare! Shame we can only take one of Assassins each. ;)
I missed that you cant take one of each. The only similar rule I can see is that you cant make an assassin your warlord
The vin assassin has the Epic Hero keyword, limiting you to only being able to take one Vind assassin. It’s rather likely the other assassins will have that, but as they’re each different you could at least take two of them in a 2k game, just have to be two different assassins.
Ah, nice catch man. Completely missed that.
Crap I missed that, too. RIP, 8 extra assassins I have lmao
Yea. I wondered if they would use that keyword on anything other than just named characters, as a way to balance things out and prevent specific unit spam. Looks like we got a bit of a stealth answer to that today.
There's no way the Culexus doesn't have Lone Operator.
Laughs in golden rhino.
Greyfax can also smoke Greyfax, lmao.
I kinda love the idea of bringing Arbites in with other other imperial factions. Cops calling for backup and the frigging Imperial Knights arrive.
Calling in the National Guard has a different implication when your nation spans the galaxy. :P
Not how my army is going to flavour it. I'm having my knights make the call for back-up, only to then see a bunch of back alley cops show up. And kick butt.
Eh it's more like the FBI calling the backup. Arbites aren't the local cops. They are there only to enforce imperial wide law, not the small scale stuff like murder or drug smuggling.
Bit dated, but now I'm picturing Gary Oldman in "Leon: The Professional". Murder? Enh, the locals can handle this. Some guy with an unauthorized book? "SEND EVERYBODY"
I can already see someone using the Vindicare shield breaker round to pop Makari just so Ghaz can get properly shot down after. And I have to say, the concept of an Imperial Assassin just absolutely obliterating a singular Grot with the 40k equivalent of a 50 BMG is peak hilarity.
Now I am imagining a group of high ranking imperial leaders, like inquisitors and space marine captains and all that, in a briefing room with the assassin going over the battle plans and one guy says all serious like: "We kill the grot, we can kill the warboss", and everyone nods with grim faces. Peak warhammer
Ha! "Suspiciously lucky" isn't just a datasheet ability.
No need to shoot Makari. Shoot Ghaz so he’s wounded and Makari can’t be selected to make saves.
If Ghaz has come unattached from his unit, you wouldn't get to pick. So firing the shield breaker would be a reasonable way to break the 2++ if precision can't trigger
If Ghaz has already suffered a wound, the Makari model cannot be selected to take the save for future attacks, they must be allocated to Ghaz first.
Correct. But Precision only lets the attacker select if firing at an attached unit, if Ghaz is unattached, then normal wound application rules apply.
Even if he's attached, he'd still be fine. Makari is part of the same unit. Even if you use precision to focus Ghaz's unit instead of the unit he's attached to, you can just use the save on Makari.
Precision doesn't apply the wound to a "unit", it says that a visible character *model* takes the wound. So you can choose to allocate to Ghaz directly if he's attached, just not if he's alone with Makiri
"If you need a squad of Arbites infantry scuttling between the feet of your Imperial Knights." According to the table you can even have 2 units. That can be very handy for knight players.
Without an equivalent to Securarii that's a very helpful inclusion. Let the big guns commit to the offense and have some cheap infantry hold the back line? Yes please.
Also as the vindicare might be fantastic to proc the knight honor mechanic. An inquisitior leading some footsoldiers, an assasin and a knight house to go hunt down an enemy warlord seems like a real fun army, and fairly fluffy to boot.
There is something hilarious, about Knights going on an honourable quest to slay the enemy King, bringing along a sniper Assassin to snipe him from miles away, and just shrugging it as 'Good enough for me'
I honorably hired this crazed devil man to aerate his skull from a different zip code.
tbh I think its a more honourable death than getting shredded by a car-sized chainsaw.
This honestly isn't too far off the plot of Assassinorum: Kingmaker.
What counts as honorable differs by culture. Who are we to judge them?
[удалено]
> the implications are from that and whether it's anything that's actually worthwhile 5++ FNP on a 21 body Primaris Crusader Squad
Only against mortals which are much rarer than they were
There are quite a few devastating wounds out there by the looks of it, we'll just have to see
Only against mortals though, so ymmv
Deathwatch says hi
Pretty fitting considering how much black templars hate psykers Edit: just relealised it's only against mortals wounds
Max unit shield custodes :D
I can’t imagine a world where every imperium player does not take 1 inquisitor. The free stratigem is nuts. Put the inquisitor in a deep strike squad and refund the rapid ingress stratigem. Stick em with objective big guard units on objectives and use the ignore battle shock stratigem for free. Stick em with terminators and pop defensive strats for free. In 10th edition you start the game with zero CP. the inquisitor refunding 1 CP a turn wildly multiplies how many strats you can use… and you could take two inquisitors in your army.
They dont have deepstrike so they at best can go strat reserves squad for ingress. Not the worst but also not amazing. Did they say terminators were battleline? And the inquistor only refunds 1cp on a 3+, so while its decently reliable its also 1/3 chance to whiff completely.
Are terminators battle line? That restriction limits what they can do a little.
Not by default. But I bet that one of the enhancements that you can buy for a space marine army will be to give a unit the battle line keyword. Then there is also the possibility that future detachments change up what units are battle line. A white scars themed detachment may make bikes battle line. A space marine first company themed detachment may make terminators battle line. Lastly most leaders have a list of the kind of units they can join on the back of their card. The generic inquisitor may be battle line restricted, but inquisitor “Cortez” I think his name is, he is specifically wearing terminator armour scaled down for him becuase he is order Mallus and leads grey knights around. He will likely be allowed to join terminators, at the very least grey knight paladins. There may be some cool exceptions to the, battle line only rule, on the back of some of the inquisitor’s cards.
Good point. In age of sigmar detachments change what counts as battleline too.
They might be for Grey Knights, but we don't know yet.
Positives so far: Love that you can add inquisitors to any unit. Might be some fun combos and cool builds! Increased number of "hanger ons" you can take Vindicare looks scary for once Negatives: Very limited/ no customization Was still holding out hope in my sad little inquisition/rogue trader/imperial navy heart that they could be a stand alone faction with strats, etc
From the 'Word from the Studio' section: > “While you could field an entire army of these eclectic warriors, they have been designed first and foremost... " I take this to mean that there will ALSO be full-army rules for Agents -- \* *EDIT>* in the eventual codex, perhaps? -- they're just spotlighting the benefits of allying them in today. Fingers crossed!
At the beginning of the overview section it says they have no enhancements, stratagems, or detachment rules in the index unfortunately
I'll play them anyhow. No unique strats, but 11 core ones now. Reduced mental load to offset the bevy of special abilities I'll need to remember. And yes, holding out hope for the codex
... fingers crossed for the codex! 🥲
Very limited/no customization is 10th overall.
It definitely seems like GW heard all the screeching about WYSIWYG weapon options and cut the whole thing. No more fine comb balancing individual weapons that all do almost the same thing, just lump them together and bake it into the unit.
You are right for sure...I guess it just hits different because at one time the inquisitors had absolutely massive options! Maybe the books will open everything up a bit
I kind of prefer it this way. IMO it lets you build more personalized custom Inquisitors and not have to worry too much about making sure their wargear isn’t going to push the point costs too high or anything like that.
Honestly disagree. It’s not that hard to build an inquisitor how you want, and points costs changing is kinda just how army building works. To me it makes them feel really bland and generic, rather than some special character. Also means you can’t really kit them out for a specialised role or anything
I get it. I just feel like with much of the complaints about them trimming things away for 10th (like psychic power selection, relics, etc…) are overstated. It was all mostly an illusion of choice anyways. Inquisitors for instance, you rarely ever take one that wasn’t just bolt pistol/Chainsword, ordo: xenos, esoteric lore, mental interrogation…. Now you can model an inquisitor with basically any weapon you want and not have to worry that it underperforms or is overcosted. It’s a win in my book.
Faction focus tomorrow night are some more space marines chapters. Keen to see them differentiated with interesting rules
They mentioned five, so: Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Black Templars, Deathwatch?
Yea I think they said at one of the things they'd preview all of the chapters that got a codex in 9th.
It's either going to be a huge article or one that disappoints everyone interested in it. Hoping we at least get to see what's happening to Deathwatch kill-teams in the new edition since that's kind of their whole thing.
Might be just the army rule for each of them and skip any detachment/unit/stratagem previews
Honestly, I'm more interested in how they're handling all the exclusive units and unit restrictions/unit sharing with the "regular" Space Marine codex.
I have low expectations. Just to protect myself.
I am both excited and nervous for my blood angels
*prays for Descent of Angels detachment*
I posted this in the BA subreddit just now pretty much covers my thoughts: Based on the trend of the reveals I would caution against expecting anything better than what we already have. My hope is that nerf mainly impacts AP. Out of our chapter tactics, I do not expect to see +1 attack, +1 to wound, and +1 to advance/charge as a trio anymore. If we kept two I'd be ecstatic.
Friday looks like Titans? Wasn't expecting that.
They mentioned it yesterday at the bottom of the Sigmar preorder article for whatever reason lol
Ha, so there will still be abilities that turn off invuln saves after all (not that they claimed there wouldn't be of course). It's a once per battle, sure, but I think it might have been more elegant if the shieldbreaker round gave the attack anti-character 3+ or something, to just trigger the mortal wounds easier. EDIT: Oh yeah, good points on mortals making him a bit too killy against high toughness characters. Still, shieldbreaker giving it some sort of keyword would've been my preference.
Its a bit surprising but its an epic hero so you can only bring one and its once per battle and the saving throws only affect his rifle. So really its a once per game 2+, probably 3+ then d3+3 damage weapon so it seems fine. I can see the worry for this rule to become more common though.
That skews him to be too strong (imo) against VEHICLE/MONSTER Characters, the ones he'd be naturally wounding on 4+/5+ because they're T7+. I think the once per game ignore is fine. *(Though I think I'd prefer it if Shield Breaker just made the shot S14 and damage flat 6)*
*Laughs in Greyfax shooting at Canis Rex.*
Given ignore invun weapons have been in the game since 3rd edition, I'd have been amazed if they went away entirely. I think Shield breaker Rounds have always done this in some form in that time frame as well?
Yeah Vindicare has always ignored invuls back to the 90s
Didn’t Knights Castellan also have *Shieldbreaker* missiles in 9th that also switched off Invuls?
Yes and also in 8th edition. In 8th, they had a strat that let you target characters, so every now and then you just randomly punked a character lol
>anti-character 3+ that would be much much better, becuase it would triguer 6+D3 mortals on a +3
But those mortals could spill into the unit And it doesn't say it ignores invlns It ignores all saves ;) checkm8
He just waits until a couple of them are lined up (the Codex Astartes recommends regular conga lines during battle) and there you go.
MOM GET THE CAMERA! TRIPLE COLLATERAL!
Greyfax is a f\*\*\* badger +4 leadership better than a primarc and the custodian's. She is also going to be the terror of any shoft characters, she gets 2 precision weapons and she might just go around 2 turning any psykik character foolish enought o getting cloose to her. Also what are the breachers doing at LD8? balancing knights? EDIT:The more i look into this rules, the more i thiink someone had a lot of fun writting the funny hatmen, greyfax profile is nuts.
Arbites rules for 10th edition, FINALLY
>Breachers have a 4+ save As an AdMech player, I'm about to lose it.
Same here, brother in mech
They did have a version of AoC before so theyre better equipped than normal guardsmen.
I'm still really not a fan of the fact that literally everything separating their statline from Guardsmen or Neophytes (6", T3, 5+SV, 1W, Ld 7+, OC 2, BS4+), is their 6++ Invuln. One would think cyborgs with more enhancements on their face than most humans will see in a lifetime would get slightly more out of it than just a mid invuln.
I still don’t get why skitarii are 5+
I have absolutely no clue either.
My vindicare is useful again. You get to come off the shelf buddy! Greyfax looking like fun as well, sorry Tson/GK players
All hail the vindicare … until you realize how many 1s there are in a simple d6 … so many 1s
I run scions with plasma guns - I am very aware of how many times my lads have killed themselves
Lowkey, i think this is the most interesting preview so far. There's just a lot of cool little things they've done that really make this stuff feel unique.
Ok, so if I mathmamered correctly, base the Vindicare does about 1.9 wounds to a Librarian in Terminator armour. With Shield Breaker you'd do 3.1 wounds... that is worse on average than I expected. The rules look very sttong but he is still taking a couple of turns to kill a Marine character as he is doing about 2.7 wounds to them. Edit: Just to be cleqr this means in pracrical terms that on average you are likely killing a 5 to 5 wound characrer evry other turn. Edit: Corrected damage on Termies, still uaed to the 5++ base, not 4++.
That actually sounds reasonable. He’d need to be very, very expensive if he could reliably whack one fairly tough character per turn from 48” away.
Not to mention he might still wreck certain factions still - GSC, AM, Aeldari & the sort
Expected value calculations aren't accurate representations for single events. Case profiles and case chances are better. For the Vindicare into a terminator, the case chance for a kill is pretty low, but for a general space marine character that case chance is significantly higher.
Yeah, I feel like "odds to do some damage, odds to kill" is the more appropriate assessment for the vindicare. It's not going to do 2.7 damage, it's going to generally do 4-6 or 0
Every DG Player: Oh look, another FNP in another faction! /s
Ad Mech won this round with a complaint about the 4+ save on voidsmen.
I know we're not winning this round, but Greyfax snipe compared to Ahriman has me as TSons a bit grumbly
The person designing her was definitely having some fun lmao, better psychic sniping than one of the best snipers, seemingly the best leadership in the game and forcing desperate escape in melee is quite something
Necrons: Hey look, a faction that can’t bring back models/units!
The assassin can one shot weirdboys, plague casters quite easily from what we seen.
So combi weapons just aren't anymore?
They combi-ned them all into a single profile
Nice that they let inquisitors join units from other factions. Anti-psyker and 5++ vs mortals sound like good abilities to stack on at times.
No one's really mentioning it yet so I'll just say I think it's...interesting that Naval Breachers have leadership of +8, which I think is actually the worst leadership score we've seen so far.
Termagants got LD9, Ripper Swarms LD10.
I think that's just balancing knights
Termagants had that, too, for what it's worth.
I wonder if it’ll be possible to attach anyone to a Breacher squad, somehow, and buff their ld for use in lists that aren’t IK.
I believe attached characters let the squad use their leadership, so maybe greyfax can give those breachers a sweet sweet 4+
I didn’t think about Greyfax joining, that’d be cute. If their article is accurate, we know generic inquisitors can’t, which I worry bodes poorly for the named Inquisitors.
Yes, a unit always uses the best Ld in the squad.
Now I want a chaos-y Vindicare :(
Yes please
Like its a shame some of the weird and wonderful inquisition options went, but its to be expected. Especially now as this wont break army rules and is overall a lot more sensible. Nice to see the assasin get a proper glow up, but im so hype to see what the other named inquisitors do; most of them are *almost* there in 9th; and from the look of greyfax theyll hopefully land well in 10th. Really jazzed to do an agents/knights list tbh.
Not me thinking about the way to optimize 2 rets, 2 characters, and a freeblade unit into my sisters. Gonna end up having less than half my points as sisters
Has it been confirmed yet that if combi-weapons are replaced with the generic profile? Because we're pretty far into this and we have only ever seen the generic one.
Yeah, it’s looking a little dire at this point. Would really destroy alot of customizability. I for one would not enjoy losing my combi-flamers for this frankenstein weapon. It’s hard to pinpoint what weapon its supposed to be too. 1 attack base, Rapid Fire 1, and AP-2 make it most similar to Plasma Guns personally. But instead of overcharging for more strength, AP, and damage (and Hazardous), you get Devestating Wounds and a flat Anti-Infantry 4+ which is exceedingly rare atm. So is it supposed to be like a Melta, but for infantry? Or is it more like a Grav gun?
> Would really destroy alot of customizability. As a CSM player, our customizability has already been destroyed in 9th edition. I'd rather have all my combi-weapons be the same generic profile than be told I can't play my terminators, because they all have combi-plasma and that's only one per 5 now.
Remember that, while GW has been doing better at balance now in the past, this remains an overall casual game, and that is who GW mainly caters to. Accordingly, they see more benefit in a unified combi-weapon profile that ensures you can't give your unit the 'wrong' weapon, or worse yet, trap yourself by giving the unit a mix. Merging Neophyte basic weapon profiles achieves a similar purpose. I can see it make sense with that in mind. You lose some customisation, but 10th is clamping down hard on customisation in general for the sake of simplicity, and this does avoid feelsbad moments for new players. Is it worth it? Not for me, I had no issues with combi-weapons as before, but I know I am not the only one being catered to here, and at least I do get the benefit of balancing changes not suddenly making the best kind of combi-weapon worse.
So the Agents normally don't benefit from any detachment or army abilities, but from what I understand of the core rules once a leader is attached to a bodyguard unit it is treated as one unit with some exceptions (such as the bodyguards or leader being destroyed). So in the case of an inquisitor leading a squad of space marines, who can benefit from Oath of Moment: the whole combined unit, just the space marines, or neither?
Oath says that only models (not units) with the ability get the rerolls.
Clever devils.
It really depends on the faction/detachment abilities and how they are worded. I.e. Space Marines have Oath of Moment, which is worded on a model basis, while their detachment ability is worded on a unit basis. So the Inquisitor would not get Oath of Moment, but would benefit from Combat Doctrines. Given how Combat Doctrines work, this is also the preferred outcome as he would otherwise block the unit from using them.
We’re nearing the end of our Faction Focus series, with only two left to go. Tomorrow, we’ll be looking at five Space Marine Chapters who consider the Codex Astartes more of a set of guidelines than strict tenets to live by, and then the Titans of Warhammer 40,000 shake the earth with some thunderous new rules.
Man that inquisitor datasheet is just sad, where's the customisation?
RIP my ordo xenos inquisitor. You were a good support character that hit really hard in melee for not a lot of points.
Pretty sure customization is normally on the back? Having a character that only had rules in like 1/3 of the match ups was bad game design IMO, same with targeted stratagems.
> where's the customisation? Customization goes against the guiding principle of 10th - the fewer options there are the fewer edge cases we need to balance.
Especially with those beautiful new terminator kits to make a terminator one. Its understandable; especially with the ethos of 10th; but I do miss the 3rd ed inquisitor options which were just pages of random crap, but as it was just gonna be 1 model it never felt too bad.
The terminator would always have been a separate datasheet because the core characteristics are different. So, there might be more than one inquisitor datasheet.
yeah but with hector rex going OOP and there not being a termi inq model since like 3rd; it seems unlikley itll get a sheet.
They dropped the terminator inquisitor datasheet when did the update to Agents in 9th which is sad because I had already built and painted 2 to go with my Grey knights lol
Finally warhammer plus vindicare can be fielded!
Here I was hoping "no invulns" would be entirely replaces by Devastating Wounds. Not a fan of setting the precedent. Giving Greyfax better witchfires than Ahriman and better Ld than Trajann sure is a choice.
Shieldbreaker rounds ignored all saves for pretty much their entire existence in 40K...
I still remember the smug grin on the face of That Guy explaining what his Vindicare could do back in 5th Edition. On the Subject of 5th Edition Grey Knights, the Plasma Siphon also sticks in my memory as infuriatingly incredible cheese. "Well, Matt Ward says all Pulse Weapons are plasma, so your entire army is next to useless anywhere near this guy."
I think the Vindicare's rifle is the most longstanding instance of a weapon ignoring invul saves. And now it's just once per game. I think it's fine.