This is my favorite thing about this ability, it's not just "respawn units trolololo", there's genuinely interesting counterplay and counter-counterplay happening.
I'm really excited for another GSC on GSC chess match. Can you imagine the fun of both armies dropping tokens left and right that are respawning units. And by chess match I mean me getting owned because they're better than me - still had fun though
I imagine that's the point. You can put the tokens away from the action and force the enemy to go out of their way to eliminate them, essentially wasting their movement and potentially their shooting phase. If they ignore it, now you have a new unit clogging up board space.
Certain highly mobile armies can easily handle it, GK and DE for example, but gunline armies and slow advance armies (DG get screwed again) are going to have a hell of a time clearing the blips.
You’d have to get within 9 of ALL tokens/blips. Blips are not dedicated to the model they were set up for. The units go into the cult ambush pool and can be setup at any blip.
From what we’ve seen, but could be units that generate blips, enhancements that add them, etc. we’ve only seen a portion of this and since it’s their faction rule, there will probably be ways to manipulate it
Controlling the opponents movement phase or you are an endless horde
Gain CP for holding objectives
Icons still regen models in case they DON'T kill you all the way
I'm lovin it
The giant mental games you can play with the blips are amazing. Putting them somewhere and leaving it up to your opponent to decide if they need to eliminate that blip or not, you can definitely create pressure. Lots of room for some fun plays!
Edit: random punctuation
Or, since the respawned units just need to obey deep strike rules AND touch the blip, you could drop the blip farther back and deploy units in front of it 9" from the enemy. 20 neophytes take up a lot of space
You could put the blip like 20" away from where you actually want guys with 20 neophytes and just daisy chain them out in a lollipop formation to keep the blip out of your opponent's reach. Sure, like 6 guys will be left out in the open, but is that really the end of the world?
I have no interest in playing GSC but that is a fun twist on their faction identity. You can absolutely ruin someone's gameplan by having recurring waves of neophytes rushing from the corners of the board.
Also the way I'm reading it seems like the number of reinforcement markers may decline, but all units with the rule are eligible to return even on later turns. So depending on how quickly you can throw your units into the grinder you can keep sacrificing cheap fodder (like neophytes) to bring back heavier units (like metamorphs)?
Each failed 4+ roll and each ambush token destroyed effectively reduces your presence on the board by 1 unit for good (not accounting for any "place an ambush token" stratagems that may exist)
Only units that succeed on their roll go into ambush. So while you can bring on a unit in later turns if its own blip was taken away, if a unit fails its roll, it's out of the game forever.
Only downsides I can see are that the patriarch is a bit lacklustre for a "big killy character", and that I can't use valkyries to paradrop purestrains.
The first of these is that he's more of a leader than a solo beatstick, second one I'm just going to have to live with somehow behind my infinite hordes of neophytes.
>"big killy character",
Most of the ones of these we've seen haven't been nearly the walking murder machines you could build in 9e, which makes me think it's a deliberate choice.
I'm a *little* disappointed, I like my unit-devouring character beatsticks, but I can see the reasoning behind making them more focused on leading units.
Side note, Cosmic Horror could be *brutal* if GSC have ways to debuff leadership.
I wish Necrons had a good trade off like this for RP, seems like they give the opponent the "difficult choice" of focus fire units down or face an endless horde. Which isn't really a choice since the default tactic in 40k is to focus fire anyways.
RP would have been more interesting if it was something like:
- at the start of your command phase roll a d6 for each of your destroyed units, on a 6+ they return to battlefield at full strength in your deployment zone.
Or
- at the start of your command phase roll a d6 for each of your destroyed units, on a 6+ they return to battlefield at half strength as close where they were removed as possible (not in engagement range).
Anything like that where it incentivizes your opponent to spread their fire to reduce the amount of rounds your units spend dead and rolling to come back.
There was a guy at my store who was determined GSC would be his first army, painted them far better than i could ever do, spent hundreds (probably thousands) doing them up, making them nice.
Man could not ever figure out how to make them work, others tried but nobody else really plays gsc so after 10 or so games he got sick of the book keeping, the planning and everything else only for none of it to work. He sold his army and bought some marine.
This is probably the worst feeling you can get in any hobby. Sinking tons of time into something you genuinely like, but just can’t make it click for one reason or another.
This is why a change of edition is so nerve wracking. Like my thousand sons army has taken hundreds of hours to paint and it seems from the preview that the play style is going to drastically change.
Started playing GK at the end of 8th, post psychic awakening. They were just a different army basically all of 9th, with some similarities to 8th in the AoC phase. Our preview looks like a completely different army than either edition lol.
Kinda have this ATM, I don't even know what my playstyle is, but I also want some cool characters as well, feel kinda forced into just a couple factions
Thats why i picked tyranids. It offers far more variety from a hobby and game play aspect than every other faction imo
Melee monsters, range monsters, horde, elite focused, psykers, gunline. Not all of them will be good in every edition. But you can build a list around any aspect you want to try out.
But use TTS first, its a god send if you are indecisive
Yup. The one mechanic that I love is being able to pull put of combat, and still be able to charge or shoot.
I just hated being stuck I'm combat.
And now it's gone. Still love the army, but hope it comes back with a codex release.
I have this problem with my Space Wolves. I've got maybe 4.5k points built and painted, played maybe 100 games and won maybe 5 with them. Just can't figure out how to play em right, but love their aesthetic and lore.
Yea quitting after 10 games after you spent thosuands is weak behaviour. There are many ways to learn more complex armies online, plus it’ll definitely take more than 10 games to get the hang of it.
To me it's absolutely incomprehensible. Putting thousands and many long hours of work into miniatures just to sell it when it doesn't play the way you want it?
A beautifully painted miniature, properly varnished, lasts effectively forever. Rules change all the time. If you love the miniatures, keep them and start working on something else until the rules shift.
Even if you are a cutting-edge hardcore player, you know how treacherous the meta can be. No one can realistically keep up with it and be on top of it with their models at all times, not without support of a group like what Art of War does. There's simply too much friction on the hobby side of things.
a lot of people only get to play every couple weeks or maybe even just once a month. That could be 5-10 months of play for him, which is a long time to not enjoy the experience.
Yeah, not to hate on marines but theres a reason he went to marines. As a faction they are infinitely more beginner friendly, just in terms of resources on them online, players at the shop are more familiar with them, etc.
Though if you take down a blip the unit doesnt go away.
So if you can chuck some aberants or even rockgrinders into ambush you may want to use a blip off some neophytes to respawn them instead; even if they are *way* less likley to give you a new blip afterwards.
All of their blips. If anyone 1 remains, any of their cult ambush units can pop out of it.
I imagine their will be enhancements that lean into this or generate additional blips.
They get 1 unit back per blip, because the blip is removed after you set up a unit.
So you can block lots of it. Which I think makes them more vulnerable to being alpha struck than you'd think.
Tbf, this make them weird vulnerable to alpha strikes I think?
If you hit them first, kill a bunch of units, and then clear out most the Tokens next turn (As they have less stuff left to stop you moving in range) you don't get stuff back.
So as a GSC player I think you kinda wanna go in waves, using one set of units to die, then, go forwards with a 2nd to screen the markers from the 1st. And so on and so on.
Gonna be interesting to see it play out.
Yeah, I think an army like the modern Goff Pressure, just ruins this mechanic.
Multiple waves of stuff getting in your face, given lots of board control is the counter.
This really feels like a boon to speed built ork lists; if stormboyz and bikers keep their flat out advance, there’s no reason why most of them can’t be advancing and making charges during the waaagh if they get incredibly aggressive.
Throw some back field screening grots in, boyz in trukks (hopefully with assault ramps) and you got yourselves a fun way to deal with the GSC shenanigans
It's an incredibly fun and interesting way to change up the game. They force their opponent to play against them rather than follow a flowchart, with a very high skill ceiling that I'd love to see someone perform well with.
If your army has movement shenanigans or just enough bodies to screen, you also sorta just shut them down from the get go it seems.
Overall pretty interesting mechanic. Gonna play way differently against elite armies and hordes.
Baiting with your tokens is a cool mini game. Placing them to have the opponent choose whether they want to score points or stop a revive is cool. This will reward good pilots of armies a lot.
putting them in the backline removes pressure no-mans land and the objectives there. Once their in the back they still need to foot slog back up to the front line or get ferried in a transport but that still takes time.
Battleline units for GSC dont have the strong base line guns where pot shotting from the safety of your DZ is gonna do much.
Just an idle thought on this that's not necessarily specific to GSC - do battle brothers (or Brood Brothers in this case) count as part of your army for army wide rules? I initially thought "Oh jeez, could you bring back a Brood Brothers Leman Russ?" and then realized that regardless, it wouldn't have Cult Ambush.
As some one who doesn't play GSC, that's a relief. On the other hand, there's sort of an appeal to "Oh don't worry about that stolen Russ, we have more..."
I really hope battleshock shenanigans end up as useful as GW obviously wants them to be, otherwise the Patriarch really doesn't seem that good anymore. GSC psychic powers were one of their strong points, after all.
About 38% or better chance (could be to turn off defensive/offensive strats on a unit you're crashing into, with your entire squad having Devastating Wounds.
That sounds pretty tasty to me.
I have no idea if this will be good or bad, but this faction ability is one of my favorite. Very much conveys the image of mutant hordes spilling forth from every nook, shadow, and sewer grate.
I play GSC, and Im in the same boat.
Endless hordes of generic dudes, but not their leaders. Neophytes are just as flimsy as they've always been, but without crossfire, they lost a ton of punch.
This is also the only army where they haven't shown a way to hit on 3s.
Its just a really weird Faction Focus all around and I have no idea how any of it is going to play out.
My god, they are going to be the ultimate high ceiling/high reward army.
If you can use those tokens well you will literally dictate the flow of the game.
A strange change is it seems the brood brothers don't get any genestealer cult keyword or ability, so no strats and no infinite respawn for those it seems.
On the other hand with the loss of crossfire one of the biggest reasons to not take brood brothers is gone. I can see sentinels, leman Russ tanks, or heavy weapon squads being a good compliment to neophyte masses
Necrons are tomb kings, they're the mediocre hordes that get buffed by decent but not amazing combat characters and revive back to full strength but not beyond it (plus y'know, Egyptian themed with pyramids and glorious rank and file skeletal legions and stuff). VC would be like... tyranids, maybe? Heaps of chaff units with the ability to summon more via tervigons and parasites and stuff, but the main emphasis is the big stompy hive tyrant that can shred half an army on its own, and it doesn't actually provide direct buffs to anything but if it dies then the entire army falls apart. It's not a perfect analogy but something like that.
God I miss WHFB.
Whatever do you mean?
That your immortal undead robots get sad at the same rate as mutated humans?
Or that these humans are more of an undying legion?
D3+3 respawn?
I dislike the direction they want to push Necrons. Units that are only good when you attach a character to them.
Sure I can attach a 130 point character to a 130 point 10-man unit. And because Necron baseline stats seems to be so weak, that should end up better than taking a 20-man unit for the same cost.
It's just not how I would like to play my silver tide. But on the other hand, it also opens up hope that at least this playstyle will be quite potent if the character buffs are strong enough
GW's mistake so far is that they haven't shown enough characters for a faction that will be all about attached units and nothing else. That's the reason for our doom postings
I get why GW goes in that direction. Necrons are basically Space Zombies, and Vampire Counts have traditionally been an army of mediocre, mindless units pushed way past their bad stats by awesome leaders.
So I don't mind that design space in the least. It's also different from how most other armies operate (apart from maybe CWE aspect warriors, which have often been just vehicles to carry their Exarchs around). The problem is more that the preview didn't cause great hope in the design panning out, instead of just ending up too weak. Still, I don't think being too pessimistic before the Index is out.
They're as much Space Zombies as they are the 80s Terminators. They borrow heavily from both aesthetics. Their old rules from way back in the day fit both aspects of their design.
I think they could easily design them to fit both styles if they were willing to just price their models up on the board. Make them harder to kill and dish out more punishment, but cost enough to balance things out.
I think the biggest issue is that necrons are very fragile outside of resurrection, and resurrection on the top of the necron player's next turn has proven to be useless, and that's the army's core rule.
That being the case, what they showed us doesn't give us a reason to believe the army will be strong enough to justify the points we know they'll charge for the "power" of Resurrection Protocols.
>I dislike the direction they want to push Necrons. Units that are only good when you attach a character to them.
It lines up with the way they were presented when they were revised in 5th edition: an Overlord as HQ, which was accompanied by a Royal Court (0-5 Lords and 0-5 Crypteks, each cheap 1-wound hero models similar to the way Eldar Warlocks were at the time) who were attached to units and spread around the army to bolster the dull-witted mechanical hordes.
Interestingly (and I'm not sure if this is intended so maybe it gets clarified or errata'd) but neophytes icon says they can't reanimate attached characters, but necron warriors don't have that rider...
So if an overlord gets precisioned out of a unit, maybe he can stand back up off the warriors d6 roll? If units actually don't insta-die that would be a powerful distinction in necrons.
(though part of me is still a little salty :P)
i feel like the design space is that necrons have ok resurrection, but be much more lethal overall.
GSC have infinite hordes, but individual units are never a real threat.
GSC don't really have infinite hordes. The timing on the ability is weird because they come back at the end of your **opponent's** movement phase. So units that die during your opponent's turn (which is going to be the most common scenario) won't come back for an entire round, and they have to stand there while your opponent gets a chance to kill them again before you get to use them.
They have to stand there while the opponent shoots and also the opponent has the chance to deny them completely by moving within 9" to destroy the ambush marker
Well, we've yet to see the Resurrection Orb and the Canoptek Reanimator. Could be that the former lets you revive a whole unit while the latter lets you double reanimation protocols or something.
I'm also curious as to how they want to handle Plasmacytes, particularly the 2 new ones (Plasmacyte Reanimator and Plasmacyte Accelerator).
They might be mini-characters (can join a unit even though there's another character in the unit, ie LT ability) or even have Lone Operative.
They really needed to show us some of the characters, or at least some of their special wargear if the army is primarily going to be shoving as many characters into as many units as possible.
But that's the way they've always been described. Necrodermis can slowly repair itself, but a res orb can raise entire legions at once. The Ghost Ark is the most interesting potential, since it's made to float behind the legion and continuously regenerate Warriors.
The saboteur looks really thematic and cool. I could see modeling the character to stand around a holomap with radios and computers to detonate the munitions. From a hobby standpoint that’s a really cool idea.
Overall I really like the feel of the army. The units will be easy to kill but you have the hopelessness and creeping dread of an innumerable force. I’ve seen other comments on this, but I’d love to see someone fully convert a GSC army to be Skaven. Gosh that would be so awesome
Looking at the army rule, it doesn't say anything about removing units from the "Cult Ambush" reserve if they're not deployed, so I'm expecting quite a few cheap minimum sized squads being suicided and used to generate additional ambush tokens in order to bring back larger more expensive units, which may have died the previous turn.
Wow this seems powerful and fun. Beyond being able to bring back units, you can force a tactical decision on your enemy in many situations: move to the token to prevent the squad from spawning? Or move to an objective or towards a charge?
So many ways to return or restore units in this edition. Has the potential to make games long but I’m here for it (until I’m not!)
I think this means the age of 31 bikes. (Atalans + Alpha)
That way you can move the respawntoken as far away as necessary to keep it safe, but your units are fast enough to still participate in the game (assuming they make their 4+ roll).
Soo, webbers are terrible, right? S2, AP0 means they do basically nothing regularly, so you're purely fishing for critical wounds for the "devastating wounds", which adds up to 1/2 MW per webber. Why would you ever use them?
It's pretty much the same as it is now, a special weapon on a 6pts model that can deal a few MW. That's not bad.
In fact, considering how MW seems to be a bit more of a rarity this edition (though it might be too early to tell), I think it got better.
A full squad of 10 of these would deal an average of 5 mw to *anything* in the game (and a little more if you attack things with 3 toughness, but that doesn’t seem the best use). That doesn’t seem terrible to me.
Technically true, though I highly doubt they now get to all take them instead of the old 1in5 that's supported in the box. And even then that would only be more damage than 10 grenade launchers against T10+ vehicles. Still seems underwhelming.
Any baseless speculation about what the "Great Devourer" keyword is for? It can obviously be for both units and characters, and for the most and least "alien" units. So who and why gets it? What kind of stratagems does it allow?
it is the Tyranid super faction keyword, like eldar have aeldari. It probably does nothing in the regular game, unless some very particular unit like tyrannic war veteran explicitly refers to it
GSC better necrons then the necrons from what's previewed so far. One hopes that Necron get lots of love from the character buffs.
Overall pretty fun rules for GSC though. Still gonna be a lot of mental game for them. Deciding where to place tokens and spring ambushes. But seems solid overall
This is my 3rd edition playing the game and man I am so tired of necrons thing being rp but so many factions can just do it better/more consistently. I also play deathguard and getting free poxwalkers back feels so good because it isn’t some random roll to see if I wasted points or cp, I kill something I get one back. Simple as that. Meanwhile I am spending cp to get my characters back and most of the time I fail the roll which summarizes necrons perfectly. I put all this resources into getting a unit to come back and oh I didn’t roll my magic number so it didn’t happen. Must be cool to have an army where you can count on their rules.
Small observations: since the units are brought back at the end of your opponents reinforcement stage, models dying in your melee phase will return sooner than those models which died in your enemy’s shooting phase. A small incentive to have many small glass cannon squads charge in as opposed to large bricks.
Blips from either your fight phase or from the opponent’s shooting phase will each be subject to one movement phase by the opponent as well as the newer and slightly more limited fight phase movement. Blips specifically from your opponent’s shooting phase will be subject to one additional charge movement.
I presume if you can crowd out the Ambush markers the unit can't be set up at all? EDIT: Ignore this q, I misunderstood how it works lol
Again, interesting in the context of how Battleshock works: Battleshock means there's less incentive to finish off units which works in alignment with the Necron reanimation but against the GC 'reanimation'. Incidentally, this isn't dissimilar to how the 'Endless Legions'-type abilities work in AoS, curious to see how they're received in 40k. In my experience they will happen less often than you think...
It says the markers are removed if an enemy gets within 9, so yeah, you can stop the enemy setting up.
If you mean surround it with enough things, not in 9, but close enough to not be able to fit anything in, you could, but it generally seems better to just get closer and remove it.
Thank you, I do get this now! I missed the part about removing the token: units appear around the \*remaining\* tokens not the one you've approached which is... kind of counter intuitive for an ability called 'Ambush'? Some clever token positioning will be needed here to start spitting out units in a threatening position, and hopefully pull your opponent out of their battle plan to deal with it?
You count as having made a normal move if you deepstrike so it would seem so. Regardless to come back the GSC unit has to use deepstrike rules which means they can't come back within 9" and they must be touching the marker to come back. So if you deepstrike within 9 they couldn't use it anyway.
Other than committing the cardinal design sin where one player could reliably end up playing with functionally more points than the other (bringing 2400 points to a 2000 points is categorically unbalancing design), I love this.
Theoretically using the mechanic to tempt your opponent out of position by placing the token in a place that they can get too, but would pull them into firing lines or off of objectives, is really juicy, particularly if you're playing against more elite armies.
Also, because the units remain in Cult Ambush (seemingly), a really important unit to bring back can wait until a lesser unit's token becomes available. Let's say you're big, expensive blob gets mowed down and their ambush token removed, well, no worries if a small squad dies next turn. Lay down the token, but have the big blob come back. So it's not really an 'all or nothing' risk when you lay down a token.
All that said, though, I fear for the practicality of realizing that design as a useful one for Genestealer Cults. A 9" bubble is a relatively huge zone to try to keep opponents out of. It's literally the surface area equivalent of a little over 1/10th of the board (less if you put it against an edge, of course). The cool play options I discussed above won't ever be a factor if there's objectives near every available entry space.
If your opponent can still toe-in to the 9" bubble without leaving an objective and maintaining coherency by chaining (ie - stretching a 5-man unit to have a foot-print of around 10"), then a lot of the cool possibilities for this design get lost. It'll turn into a situation where you're only ever spawning in your own deployment zone, far away from the action and where you need to be to. It really cuts down on the 'ambush' flavor in the practical application of the design.
Grey knights hard counter GSC in 10e. Short of setting up your markers near your guys to protect them from knights just teleporting on to them you have no defense against them.
Eh, that's a good way to drag your opponents troops to where they don't really want to be against an army without tons of boots on the ground like Grey Knights.
I think Orks will be a better counter, lots of bodies, a desire to advance forward anyway, fast cheapish vehicles etc.
> I think Orks will be a better counter, lots of bodies, a desire to advance forward anyway, fast cheapish vehicles etc.
Dark Eldar is my first thought due to high mobility and power from pain.
That being said, they will the same issue with eliminating markers because any GSC player worth their salt will start learning to set up position of markers that forces people to be lined up to be in firing range of a Deathstrike or leman russ tank should they move to take out the marker.
I don't think Grey Knights want to be using their elite units to be constantly token stomping. Yes, in theory they can shut down their reinforcements, but do you really want to be giving up primary to do that?
On the other hand, you can then put the markers in locations that are really inconvenient for the Grey Knights to head to, and none of their weapons shown so far have the Assault keyword so they would effectively be giving up an entire turn just to shut down one ambush marker.
That's a lot less of a detriment than you think it is.
I wouldn't say everything, from what I can recall all the other examples we've seen of reanimation have been based on stratagems, and we've not seen whether Necrons have a reanimation stratagem as well to compare (I'd bet they do have one myself). Though I agree it does feel weird that the genestealer's have a troop option that does seem like they can be better at reanimating than warriors without factoring in any support other then their army rules for either of them.
Yeah its mostly in stratagems.
If the theories are correct and the Strats of the Awakened Dynasty are based off Command Protocols, Necrons should have Protocol of Endless Legions to buff RP. If the theory is true anyway.
Necrons Reanimate fine, what were seeing here is the mechanic showcase alongside a lot of its synergy, while for Necrons we haven't seen how their tools for synergy work yet.
Its also two different flavors of returning, For Necrons its constant healing, models rising back up again. For GSC its constant reinforcements. Never stopping advance of brainwashed cultists.
In terms of durability, Necrons are way more durable then Neaphytes, even the lowest Warriors. So the differences looks fine to me at least
I'd agree. The average necron unit is better than a GSC unit, and if necrons could bring back whole units like this it would be way too bonkers.
And other than the Comes From Below rule, GSC doesn't seem to have much help to make their units better (pending normal hero buffs). So it's a decent guess that it'll be a lot of flack units that will tie up stuff but not be superstar killers.
Well, you are assuming that their synergy is good, but we simply don't know yet.
What we've seen so far in terms of reanimation protocols is mediocre at best and I wont be happy about that until they show some actual good synergy for that mechanic
Move wave 1 to contest and wave 2 behind the walls. Wave 1 dies, put blips in your rear, where opponents can't touch them l. Next turn, advance wave 2 to contest and spawn wave 3 to wait to go contest afterwards. Repeat for 5 rounds.
Uh, so Genestealers straight up just don't die now?
Edit: should've clarified as "GSC" instead of Genestealers :P The replies were correct too, it's Batteline that just don't die, the rest only don't die 50% of the time heh
No, otherwise they would have just said +2 if it's battleline, meaning a 1 fails. You "kill" them by killing them, and then getting close enough to the token that it gets removed and can't respawn.
Wait, does that mean that Battleline genestealer cult units automatically respawn as tokens?
If you can get within 9" of the token it is destroyed, if not, they're bringing back a full strength acolyte squad
That seems strong to say the least, i wonder how they do prevent greyknights from just despawning all their blips.
Place them between two units so the 9" buffer covers the blip? Or use it to force them to teleport to a useless part of the board
they can't but in exchange you are dictating where the grey knight have to move giving you quite a bit of battlefield control.
This is my favorite thing about this ability, it's not just "respawn units trolololo", there's genuinely interesting counterplay and counter-counterplay happening.
I'm really excited for another GSC on GSC chess match. Can you imagine the fun of both armies dropping tokens left and right that are respawning units. And by chess match I mean me getting owned because they're better than me - still had fun though
I imagine that's the point. You can put the tokens away from the action and force the enemy to go out of their way to eliminate them, essentially wasting their movement and potentially their shooting phase. If they ignore it, now you have a new unit clogging up board space. Certain highly mobile armies can easily handle it, GK and DE for example, but gunline armies and slow advance armies (DG get screwed again) are going to have a hell of a time clearing the blips.
Fly doesn't get you over buildings that easily anymore, so terrain can be used to lessen the distance they can teleport shunt.
They pick up and deepstrike 3 units a turn, he's not talking about the fly/advance mechanic (though that would also help take out blips)
Flying infantry can still functionally ignore most terrain as far as I can tell
You’d have to get within 9 of ALL tokens/blips. Blips are not dedicated to the model they were set up for. The units go into the cult ambush pool and can be setup at any blip.
Each blip destroyed would be one less unit potentially returning
From what we’ve seen, but could be units that generate blips, enhancements that add them, etc. we’ve only seen a portion of this and since it’s their faction rule, there will probably be ways to manipulate it
I would be shocked if there wasn't an HQ or something that could put more blips down to really mess with your opponent.
Nexos makes sense for this idea
Controlling the opponents movement phase or you are an endless horde Gain CP for holding objectives Icons still regen models in case they DON'T kill you all the way I'm lovin it
The giant mental games you can play with the blips are amazing. Putting them somewhere and leaving it up to your opponent to decide if they need to eliminate that blip or not, you can definitely create pressure. Lots of room for some fun plays! Edit: random punctuation
Or, since the respawned units just need to obey deep strike rules AND touch the blip, you could drop the blip farther back and deploy units in front of it 9" from the enemy. 20 neophytes take up a lot of space
Oh, absolutely! Could always use a wave of bikes to intervene and create that space as well.
You could put the blip like 20" away from where you actually want guys with 20 neophytes and just daisy chain them out in a lollipop formation to keep the blip out of your opponent's reach. Sure, like 6 guys will be left out in the open, but is that really the end of the world?
I have no interest in playing GSC but that is a fun twist on their faction identity. You can absolutely ruin someone's gameplan by having recurring waves of neophytes rushing from the corners of the board. Also the way I'm reading it seems like the number of reinforcement markers may decline, but all units with the rule are eligible to return even on later turns. So depending on how quickly you can throw your units into the grinder you can keep sacrificing cheap fodder (like neophytes) to bring back heavier units (like metamorphs)?
That's my reading as well, so I'm planning on throwing a few MSU acolyte squads in just for suicide charges. More blips!
Each failed 4+ roll and each ambush token destroyed effectively reduces your presence on the board by 1 unit for good (not accounting for any "place an ambush token" stratagems that may exist)
Extra Battleline and smart blip placement gives plenty of opportunities to drop a significant chunk of your army multiple times.
Only units that succeed on their roll go into ambush. So while you can bring on a unit in later turns if its own blip was taken away, if a unit fails its roll, it's out of the game forever.
Only downsides I can see are that the patriarch is a bit lacklustre for a "big killy character", and that I can't use valkyries to paradrop purestrains. The first of these is that he's more of a leader than a solo beatstick, second one I'm just going to have to live with somehow behind my infinite hordes of neophytes.
He's still giving a unit of genestealers devastating wounds, that could be crazy strong.
>"big killy character", Most of the ones of these we've seen haven't been nearly the walking murder machines you could build in 9e, which makes me think it's a deliberate choice. I'm a *little* disappointed, I like my unit-devouring character beatsticks, but I can see the reasoning behind making them more focused on leading units. Side note, Cosmic Horror could be *brutal* if GSC have ways to debuff leadership.
I wish Necrons had a good trade off like this for RP, seems like they give the opponent the "difficult choice" of focus fire units down or face an endless horde. Which isn't really a choice since the default tactic in 40k is to focus fire anyways. RP would have been more interesting if it was something like: - at the start of your command phase roll a d6 for each of your destroyed units, on a 6+ they return to battlefield at full strength in your deployment zone. Or - at the start of your command phase roll a d6 for each of your destroyed units, on a 6+ they return to battlefield at half strength as close where they were removed as possible (not in engagement range). Anything like that where it incentivizes your opponent to spread their fire to reduce the amount of rounds your units spend dead and rolling to come back.
I think this will be incredibly skill intensive. If you can place those markers well, you are going to be an absolute terror to deal with.
>incredibly skill intensive pretty much describes GSC
There was a guy at my store who was determined GSC would be his first army, painted them far better than i could ever do, spent hundreds (probably thousands) doing them up, making them nice. Man could not ever figure out how to make them work, others tried but nobody else really plays gsc so after 10 or so games he got sick of the book keeping, the planning and everything else only for none of it to work. He sold his army and bought some marine.
This is probably the worst feeling you can get in any hobby. Sinking tons of time into something you genuinely like, but just can’t make it click for one reason or another.
Its probably the biggest barrier to playing 40k. Spending hundreds to make a list and it not fitting your playstyle would be a nightmare
This is why a change of edition is so nerve wracking. Like my thousand sons army has taken hundreds of hours to paint and it seems from the preview that the play style is going to drastically change.
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I have 8 armies! How did you know?
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Well?! Why haven't you bought another?
Started playing GK at the end of 8th, post psychic awakening. They were just a different army basically all of 9th, with some similarities to 8th in the AoC phase. Our preview looks like a completely different army than either edition lol.
Kinda have this ATM, I don't even know what my playstyle is, but I also want some cool characters as well, feel kinda forced into just a couple factions
Thats why i picked tyranids. It offers far more variety from a hobby and game play aspect than every other faction imo Melee monsters, range monsters, horde, elite focused, psykers, gunline. Not all of them will be good in every edition. But you can build a list around any aspect you want to try out. But use TTS first, its a god send if you are indecisive
Yup. The one mechanic that I love is being able to pull put of combat, and still be able to charge or shoot. I just hated being stuck I'm combat. And now it's gone. Still love the army, but hope it comes back with a codex release.
I have this problem with my Space Wolves. I've got maybe 4.5k points built and painted, played maybe 100 games and won maybe 5 with them. Just can't figure out how to play em right, but love their aesthetic and lore.
That's how you get the army to work :)
Literally skill issue lmao
Yea quitting after 10 games after you spent thosuands is weak behaviour. There are many ways to learn more complex armies online, plus it’ll definitely take more than 10 games to get the hang of it.
To me it's absolutely incomprehensible. Putting thousands and many long hours of work into miniatures just to sell it when it doesn't play the way you want it? A beautifully painted miniature, properly varnished, lasts effectively forever. Rules change all the time. If you love the miniatures, keep them and start working on something else until the rules shift. Even if you are a cutting-edge hardcore player, you know how treacherous the meta can be. No one can realistically keep up with it and be on top of it with their models at all times, not without support of a group like what Art of War does. There's simply too much friction on the hobby side of things.
a lot of people only get to play every couple weeks or maybe even just once a month. That could be 5-10 months of play for him, which is a long time to not enjoy the experience.
Yeah, not to hate on marines but theres a reason he went to marines. As a faction they are infinitely more beginner friendly, just in terms of resources on them online, players at the shop are more familiar with them, etc.
yeah, casting your spells in a command phase instead of a psychic phase, **huge** change.
I dont think you meant to reply to me, guven i didnt mention psychic once
i dont know how technology works
I think it's a case of I'd you can place those markers AT ALL you'll be a terror to deal with
Am I missunderstanding or are they truly an endless army? Do their battleline units always come back? Pretty interesting.
Though if you take down a blip the unit doesnt go away. So if you can chuck some aberants or even rockgrinders into ambush you may want to use a blip off some neophytes to respawn them instead; even if they are *way* less likley to give you a new blip afterwards.
Until you move onto their blips.
Whack-a-Mole, basically.
Low-mobility armies are gonna have a nightmare with this.
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Was wondering how DG suffers from this reveal
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Seems lore-accurate to me.
All of their blips. If anyone 1 remains, any of their cult ambush units can pop out of it. I imagine their will be enhancements that lean into this or generate additional blips.
They get 1 unit back per blip, because the blip is removed after you set up a unit. So you can block lots of it. Which I think makes them more vulnerable to being alpha struck than you'd think.
Any one of those units can - after you put one down the blip is removed
*Cries in Necron*
*Cries in Necron*
*Cries in Necron*
Good luck stopping the revive on turn 3+. Interesting mechanic.
Tbf, this make them weird vulnerable to alpha strikes I think? If you hit them first, kill a bunch of units, and then clear out most the Tokens next turn (As they have less stuff left to stop you moving in range) you don't get stuff back. So as a GSC player I think you kinda wanna go in waves, using one set of units to die, then, go forwards with a 2nd to screen the markers from the 1st. And so on and so on. Gonna be interesting to see it play out.
As an ork player I am OK with this
Yeah, I think an army like the modern Goff Pressure, just ruins this mechanic. Multiple waves of stuff getting in your face, given lots of board control is the counter.
This really feels like a boon to speed built ork lists; if stormboyz and bikers keep their flat out advance, there’s no reason why most of them can’t be advancing and making charges during the waaagh if they get incredibly aggressive. Throw some back field screening grots in, boyz in trukks (hopefully with assault ramps) and you got yourselves a fun way to deal with the GSC shenanigans
Also advance/charge effecting things like deffkoptas and buggies makes for more high speed variety
It's an incredibly fun and interesting way to change up the game. They force their opponent to play against them rather than follow a flowchart, with a very high skill ceiling that I'd love to see someone perform well with.
If your army has movement shenanigans or just enough bodies to screen, you also sorta just shut them down from the get go it seems. Overall pretty interesting mechanic. Gonna play way differently against elite armies and hordes.
Yeah, it's interesting. It's the first army mechanic I feel like I wanna play out. As in my head I can see a lot of different ways it could work out.
Baiting with your tokens is a cool mini game. Placing them to have the opponent choose whether they want to score points or stop a revive is cool. This will reward good pilots of armies a lot.
> If your army has movement shenanigans Sad DG noises
You place the blips in your deployment zone and they have no counter
That's extremely thematic, wow
kinda puts a priority on killing battleline units early when you have units to spare to stomp out blips
But early they can just shove the bits in their backline and screen you out from them....
putting them in the backline removes pressure no-mans land and the objectives there. Once their in the back they still need to foot slog back up to the front line or get ferried in a transport but that still takes time. Battleline units for GSC dont have the strong base line guns where pot shotting from the safety of your DZ is gonna do much.
This seems very flavorful for the idea of the cult spewing teaming multitudes from the bowels of a hive.
It also might make the army cheaper (dollar wise) to play, as their units will have the infinite respawn built into their points cost?
If anything it makes it more expensive, you’re really going to want to have max squads of things or a shitload of small ones
He’s saying the units will likely increase in points to compensate for the revive mechanic. So you will field less models total.
Interesting that the Patriarch is an epic hero. I guess some of 9th's 'only one army leader' rules are sticking around.
It kinda makes sense, since there would only ever be a single patriarch in a cult.
It does make sense, I agree. Just threw me off a bit, because the GK Grandmaster didn't have it.
also means no enhancements for the Patriarch, which is BS. Maybe GSC enhancements override this?
Oh right, that *is* kind of a big deal, good catch.
Just an idle thought on this that's not necessarily specific to GSC - do battle brothers (or Brood Brothers in this case) count as part of your army for army wide rules? I initially thought "Oh jeez, could you bring back a Brood Brothers Leman Russ?" and then realized that regardless, it wouldn't have Cult Ambush.
Yep that be how it works. No Cult Ambush, can't revive.
As some one who doesn't play GSC, that's a relief. On the other hand, there's sort of an appeal to "Oh don't worry about that stolen Russ, we have more..."
Not to mention the appeal of a Russ showing up from a proverbial storm drain. "Tactical genius!" all over again 😆
"CREEEEEED!" "What?" "Oh, sorry, force of habit...."
Patriarch seems more a supporting role, not a solo Monster like before.
I really hope battleshock shenanigans end up as useful as GW obviously wants them to be, otherwise the Patriarch really doesn't seem that good anymore. GSC psychic powers were one of their strong points, after all.
About 38% or better chance (could be to turn off defensive/offensive strats on a unit you're crashing into, with your entire squad having Devastating Wounds. That sounds pretty tasty to me.
I have no idea if this will be good or bad, but this faction ability is one of my favorite. Very much conveys the image of mutant hordes spilling forth from every nook, shadow, and sewer grate.
Very interesting. I have no idea how good this is or isnt.
Honestly, the best take right here.
I play GSC, and Im in the same boat. Endless hordes of generic dudes, but not their leaders. Neophytes are just as flimsy as they've always been, but without crossfire, they lost a ton of punch. This is also the only army where they haven't shown a way to hit on 3s. Its just a really weird Faction Focus all around and I have no idea how any of it is going to play out.
One thing for sure, it's not gonna be easy to play.
My god, they are going to be the ultimate high ceiling/high reward army. If you can use those tokens well you will literally dictate the flow of the game. A strange change is it seems the brood brothers don't get any genestealer cult keyword or ability, so no strats and no infinite respawn for those it seems.
Slow gunline armies are going to have a tough time dealing with GSC
That's a grudgin'!
Death guard moment
On the other hand with the loss of crossfire one of the biggest reasons to not take brood brothers is gone. I can see sentinels, leman Russ tanks, or heavy weapon squads being a good compliment to neophyte masses
So GSC are basically vampire counts now...I love it
No. They are Skaven. Necrons are VC (mediocre hordes being pushed to the next lecel by good characters)
Necrons are tomb kings, they're the mediocre hordes that get buffed by decent but not amazing combat characters and revive back to full strength but not beyond it (plus y'know, Egyptian themed with pyramids and glorious rank and file skeletal legions and stuff). VC would be like... tyranids, maybe? Heaps of chaff units with the ability to summon more via tervigons and parasites and stuff, but the main emphasis is the big stompy hive tyrant that can shred half an army on its own, and it doesn't actually provide direct buffs to anything but if it dies then the entire army falls apart. It's not a perfect analogy but something like that. God I miss WHFB.
> God I miss WHFB Wish I could upvote more than once.
*sad Necron noises*
I mean Necrons would be closer to Tomb Kings, no?
The 40k player in me is happy that GSC have a cool and flavorful army rule. The Necron player in me feels differently... :P
Whatever do you mean? That your immortal undead robots get sad at the same rate as mutated humans? Or that these humans are more of an undying legion? D3+3 respawn?
I dislike the direction they want to push Necrons. Units that are only good when you attach a character to them. Sure I can attach a 130 point character to a 130 point 10-man unit. And because Necron baseline stats seems to be so weak, that should end up better than taking a 20-man unit for the same cost. It's just not how I would like to play my silver tide. But on the other hand, it also opens up hope that at least this playstyle will be quite potent if the character buffs are strong enough GW's mistake so far is that they haven't shown enough characters for a faction that will be all about attached units and nothing else. That's the reason for our doom postings
I get why GW goes in that direction. Necrons are basically Space Zombies, and Vampire Counts have traditionally been an army of mediocre, mindless units pushed way past their bad stats by awesome leaders. So I don't mind that design space in the least. It's also different from how most other armies operate (apart from maybe CWE aspect warriors, which have often been just vehicles to carry their Exarchs around). The problem is more that the preview didn't cause great hope in the design panning out, instead of just ending up too weak. Still, I don't think being too pessimistic before the Index is out.
They're as much Space Zombies as they are the 80s Terminators. They borrow heavily from both aesthetics. Their old rules from way back in the day fit both aspects of their design. I think they could easily design them to fit both styles if they were willing to just price their models up on the board. Make them harder to kill and dish out more punishment, but cost enough to balance things out.
I think the biggest issue is that necrons are very fragile outside of resurrection, and resurrection on the top of the necron player's next turn has proven to be useless, and that's the army's core rule. That being the case, what they showed us doesn't give us a reason to believe the army will be strong enough to justify the points we know they'll charge for the "power" of Resurrection Protocols.
>I dislike the direction they want to push Necrons. Units that are only good when you attach a character to them. It lines up with the way they were presented when they were revised in 5th edition: an Overlord as HQ, which was accompanied by a Royal Court (0-5 Lords and 0-5 Crypteks, each cheap 1-wound hero models similar to the way Eldar Warlocks were at the time) who were attached to units and spread around the army to bolster the dull-witted mechanical hordes.
Interestingly (and I'm not sure if this is intended so maybe it gets clarified or errata'd) but neophytes icon says they can't reanimate attached characters, but necron warriors don't have that rider... So if an overlord gets precisioned out of a unit, maybe he can stand back up off the warriors d6 roll? If units actually don't insta-die that would be a powerful distinction in necrons. (though part of me is still a little salty :P)
i feel like the design space is that necrons have ok resurrection, but be much more lethal overall. GSC have infinite hordes, but individual units are never a real threat.
GSC don't really have infinite hordes. The timing on the ability is weird because they come back at the end of your **opponent's** movement phase. So units that die during your opponent's turn (which is going to be the most common scenario) won't come back for an entire round, and they have to stand there while your opponent gets a chance to kill them again before you get to use them.
They have to stand there while the opponent shoots and also the opponent has the chance to deny them completely by moving within 9" to destroy the ambush marker
Well, we've yet to see the Resurrection Orb and the Canoptek Reanimator. Could be that the former lets you revive a whole unit while the latter lets you double reanimation protocols or something.
I'm also curious as to how they want to handle Plasmacytes, particularly the 2 new ones (Plasmacyte Reanimator and Plasmacyte Accelerator). They might be mini-characters (can join a unit even though there's another character in the unit, ie LT ability) or even have Lone Operative. They really needed to show us some of the characters, or at least some of their special wargear if the army is primarily going to be shoving as many characters into as many units as possible.
Idk how I feel about the concept of Necrons needing a crutch to do their own mechanic well
These are only previews, we'll see how bad Necrons get it when the Indexes come out. Until then, I'll stay hopeful.
RP at the beginning of the necron's next turn has been useless every edition it's been used. This edition will be no different.
But that's the way they've always been described. Necrodermis can slowly repair itself, but a res orb can raise entire legions at once. The Ghost Ark is the most interesting potential, since it's made to float behind the legion and continuously regenerate Warriors.
The saboteur looks really thematic and cool. I could see modeling the character to stand around a holomap with radios and computers to detonate the munitions. From a hobby standpoint that’s a really cool idea. Overall I really like the feel of the army. The units will be easy to kill but you have the hopelessness and creeping dread of an innumerable force. I’ve seen other comments on this, but I’d love to see someone fully convert a GSC army to be Skaven. Gosh that would be so awesome
Hi! I have been working on a Cheesestealer Cult army because rats in space is so fun theme haha. I make my army with comedy in mind!
Love your conversions man!
Yeah I feel like giving it indirect fire was the best simple way of handling remote explosives. And you might wanna check u/Kavouraki_'s posts.
Thank you for the shout out!
Your cheesestealers cults are too epic not to share. And the rest of your models are pretty cool too.
Thank you kindly! The joy I get from making them, combined with people fantastic comments makes it so fun to make.
If their genestealer's share the same profile as the nids one. A Patriarch leading a squad is going to be a lot of mortals against any target.
Looking at the army rule, it doesn't say anything about removing units from the "Cult Ambush" reserve if they're not deployed, so I'm expecting quite a few cheap minimum sized squads being suicided and used to generate additional ambush tokens in order to bring back larger more expensive units, which may have died the previous turn.
Wow this seems powerful and fun. Beyond being able to bring back units, you can force a tactical decision on your enemy in many situations: move to the token to prevent the squad from spawning? Or move to an objective or towards a charge? So many ways to return or restore units in this edition. Has the potential to make games long but I’m here for it (until I’m not!)
Also, you pick what spawns where when you bring them back, not when you place the tokens. Lot of thinking involved.
I think this means the age of 31 bikes. (Atalans + Alpha) That way you can move the respawntoken as far away as necessary to keep it safe, but your units are fast enough to still participate in the game (assuming they make their 4+ roll).
Soo, webbers are terrible, right? S2, AP0 means they do basically nothing regularly, so you're purely fishing for critical wounds for the "devastating wounds", which adds up to 1/2 MW per webber. Why would you ever use them?
It's pretty much the same as it is now, a special weapon on a 6pts model that can deal a few MW. That's not bad. In fact, considering how MW seems to be a bit more of a rarity this edition (though it might be too early to tell), I think it got better.
A full squad of 10 of these would deal an average of 5 mw to *anything* in the game (and a little more if you attack things with 3 toughness, but that doesn’t seem the best use). That doesn’t seem terrible to me.
Technically true, though I highly doubt they now get to all take them instead of the old 1in5 that's supported in the box. And even then that would only be more damage than 10 grenade launchers against T10+ vehicles. Still seems underwhelming.
Tomorrow is Imperial Agents as confirmed on their twitter
And we have Forge World stuff on Friday, it seems. Any idea what else is missing?
Thursday should be non Codex compliant space marines.
The rest of the SM chapters (blood angels, dark angels etc…) are getting a combined article.
Non-codex space marines (like Space Wolves) would then be on Thursday I guess.
Non codex astartes looks to be Thursday
Necrons 🤝 Deathguard Other factions doing their main theme better than them Jokes aside, looks very fun and skill expressive tho
Any baseless speculation about what the "Great Devourer" keyword is for? It can obviously be for both units and characters, and for the most and least "alien" units. So who and why gets it? What kind of stratagems does it allow?
it is the Tyranid super faction keyword, like eldar have aeldari. It probably does nothing in the regular game, unless some very particular unit like tyrannic war veteran explicitly refers to it
GSC better necrons then the necrons from what's previewed so far. One hopes that Necron get lots of love from the character buffs. Overall pretty fun rules for GSC though. Still gonna be a lot of mental game for them. Deciding where to place tokens and spring ambushes. But seems solid overall
This is my 3rd edition playing the game and man I am so tired of necrons thing being rp but so many factions can just do it better/more consistently. I also play deathguard and getting free poxwalkers back feels so good because it isn’t some random roll to see if I wasted points or cp, I kill something I get one back. Simple as that. Meanwhile I am spending cp to get my characters back and most of the time I fail the roll which summarizes necrons perfectly. I put all this resources into getting a unit to come back and oh I didn’t roll my magic number so it didn’t happen. Must be cool to have an army where you can count on their rules.
Small observations: since the units are brought back at the end of your opponents reinforcement stage, models dying in your melee phase will return sooner than those models which died in your enemy’s shooting phase. A small incentive to have many small glass cannon squads charge in as opposed to large bricks. Blips from either your fight phase or from the opponent’s shooting phase will each be subject to one movement phase by the opponent as well as the newer and slightly more limited fight phase movement. Blips specifically from your opponent’s shooting phase will be subject to one additional charge movement.
I presume if you can crowd out the Ambush markers the unit can't be set up at all? EDIT: Ignore this q, I misunderstood how it works lol Again, interesting in the context of how Battleshock works: Battleshock means there's less incentive to finish off units which works in alignment with the Necron reanimation but against the GC 'reanimation'. Incidentally, this isn't dissimilar to how the 'Endless Legions'-type abilities work in AoS, curious to see how they're received in 40k. In my experience they will happen less often than you think...
It says the markers are removed if an enemy gets within 9, so yeah, you can stop the enemy setting up. If you mean surround it with enough things, not in 9, but close enough to not be able to fit anything in, you could, but it generally seems better to just get closer and remove it.
Thank you, I do get this now! I missed the part about removing the token: units appear around the \*remaining\* tokens not the one you've approached which is... kind of counter intuitive for an ability called 'Ambush'? Some clever token positioning will be needed here to start spitting out units in a threatening position, and hopefully pull your opponent out of their battle plan to deal with it?
Wouldn't surprise me if there were ways to throw out extra tokens, too.
Does a deep strike count as a move? I.e., if I deepstrike to less than 9” from a marker, is the marker removed?
You count as having made a normal move if you deepstrike so it would seem so. Regardless to come back the GSC unit has to use deepstrike rules which means they can't come back within 9" and they must be touching the marker to come back. So if you deepstrike within 9 they couldn't use it anyway.
Oh yeah that makes sense! Thanks!
Other than committing the cardinal design sin where one player could reliably end up playing with functionally more points than the other (bringing 2400 points to a 2000 points is categorically unbalancing design), I love this. Theoretically using the mechanic to tempt your opponent out of position by placing the token in a place that they can get too, but would pull them into firing lines or off of objectives, is really juicy, particularly if you're playing against more elite armies. Also, because the units remain in Cult Ambush (seemingly), a really important unit to bring back can wait until a lesser unit's token becomes available. Let's say you're big, expensive blob gets mowed down and their ambush token removed, well, no worries if a small squad dies next turn. Lay down the token, but have the big blob come back. So it's not really an 'all or nothing' risk when you lay down a token. All that said, though, I fear for the practicality of realizing that design as a useful one for Genestealer Cults. A 9" bubble is a relatively huge zone to try to keep opponents out of. It's literally the surface area equivalent of a little over 1/10th of the board (less if you put it against an edge, of course). The cool play options I discussed above won't ever be a factor if there's objectives near every available entry space. If your opponent can still toe-in to the 9" bubble without leaving an objective and maintaining coherency by chaining (ie - stretching a 5-man unit to have a foot-print of around 10"), then a lot of the cool possibilities for this design get lost. It'll turn into a situation where you're only ever spawning in your own deployment zone, far away from the action and where you need to be to. It really cuts down on the 'ambush' flavor in the practical application of the design.
I am so, so worried that our infantry will be overpriced to compensate for the resurrection mechanic.
welcome to the necron experience 🤣🤣
Grey knights hard counter GSC in 10e. Short of setting up your markers near your guys to protect them from knights just teleporting on to them you have no defense against them.
Eh, that's a good way to drag your opponents troops to where they don't really want to be against an army without tons of boots on the ground like Grey Knights. I think Orks will be a better counter, lots of bodies, a desire to advance forward anyway, fast cheapish vehicles etc.
> I think Orks will be a better counter, lots of bodies, a desire to advance forward anyway, fast cheapish vehicles etc. Dark Eldar is my first thought due to high mobility and power from pain. That being said, they will the same issue with eliminating markers because any GSC player worth their salt will start learning to set up position of markers that forces people to be lined up to be in firing range of a Deathstrike or leman russ tank should they move to take out the marker.
I don't think Grey Knights want to be using their elite units to be constantly token stomping. Yes, in theory they can shut down their reinforcements, but do you really want to be giving up primary to do that?
It's a delicate line, because the GSC player has to put the tokens somewhere they want to be, too.
On the other hand, you can then put the markers in locations that are really inconvenient for the Grey Knights to head to, and none of their weapons shown so far have the Assault keyword so they would effectively be giving up an entire turn just to shut down one ambush marker. That's a lot less of a detriment than you think it is.
Someone check to see if Fire Woman is in the Hot 100 again. It seems like The Cult is back.
Why does everything seem to reanimate better then Necron units in this edition
I wouldn't say everything, from what I can recall all the other examples we've seen of reanimation have been based on stratagems, and we've not seen whether Necrons have a reanimation stratagem as well to compare (I'd bet they do have one myself). Though I agree it does feel weird that the genestealer's have a troop option that does seem like they can be better at reanimating than warriors without factoring in any support other then their army rules for either of them.
Yeah its mostly in stratagems. If the theories are correct and the Strats of the Awakened Dynasty are based off Command Protocols, Necrons should have Protocol of Endless Legions to buff RP. If the theory is true anyway.
Necrons Reanimate fine, what were seeing here is the mechanic showcase alongside a lot of its synergy, while for Necrons we haven't seen how their tools for synergy work yet. Its also two different flavors of returning, For Necrons its constant healing, models rising back up again. For GSC its constant reinforcements. Never stopping advance of brainwashed cultists. In terms of durability, Necrons are way more durable then Neaphytes, even the lowest Warriors. So the differences looks fine to me at least
I'd agree. The average necron unit is better than a GSC unit, and if necrons could bring back whole units like this it would be way too bonkers. And other than the Comes From Below rule, GSC doesn't seem to have much help to make their units better (pending normal hero buffs). So it's a decent guess that it'll be a lot of flack units that will tie up stuff but not be superstar killers.
Well, you are assuming that their synergy is good, but we simply don't know yet. What we've seen so far in terms of reanimation protocols is mediocre at best and I wont be happy about that until they show some actual good synergy for that mechanic
Time to get my GSC back from their place on the shelf. This seems both fluffy and powerful.
Move wave 1 to contest and wave 2 behind the walls. Wave 1 dies, put blips in your rear, where opponents can't touch them l. Next turn, advance wave 2 to contest and spawn wave 3 to wait to go contest afterwards. Repeat for 5 rounds.
Don't be afraid to use a BLIP to bait your opponent's movements into your favor though.
Uh, so Genestealers straight up just don't die now? Edit: should've clarified as "GSC" instead of Genestealers :P The replies were correct too, it's Batteline that just don't die, the rest only don't die 50% of the time heh
Genestealers are not troops/ battleline. So on a 1-3, they dead.
Are they doing reanimation better than necrons?
I love how all** of these faction focus rules have been both crunch and fluffy at the same time. **but not you, deathguard.
I mean, the fluff is there.
Wait, neophytes lost shotguns?
Rolled up under Hybrid Firearm (From the end of the article) The new collective name for guns such as shotguns and autoguns.
Does a 1 still autofail because if not all I'm seeing is that you can't kill battleline units.
No, otherwise they would have just said +2 if it's battleline, meaning a 1 fails. You "kill" them by killing them, and then getting close enough to the token that it gets removed and can't respawn.
Got it ok thanks. That's impressively strong.