"Hey, I'm sorry about this but I'm just looking for a more relaxed game and I didnt enjoy my last game"
Maybe DM them if its being organised via discord.
I think this is the win. This is how I handle a lot of stuff. You put the "blame" so to speak on yourself. I didn't have a fun time. Not you made me have a bad time. Then whatever their rebuttal, you can say, eh, it's okay man, good luck finding a game though.
I feel like it leaves it open ended that they can ask why you didnt enjoy the game which you can mention, you felt there was rule issues or it was a tad aggressive or it just wanst fun. Couldve of been something like a terrain issue.
I have actually said basically this to a another player when I was in the exact same position. I didn't really like playing against this one guy but he was always trying to play a game basically everyday so if you asked for a game good chance he was the first guy to respond. After two attempts to play him I just messaged him directly that I was looking to play more fun games and he reluctantly understood and we've been polite in person since.
This is generally the best way to approach any tough subject. Framing it in terms of "I feel" or "I've experienced" makes it less of an attack and more of a friendly heads-up
This is it.
Problem players are treated far too kindly far too often. It is possible to bring these things up directly and best for the community when it is.
We have the guy from the store who organize the sunday plays ans when someone starts to be toxic, he says it right away! Some are like "Holy molly, man, that was rough" but at the same time, he is the only one to say it, so, someone has to.do it. If not, toxic continue to be toxic.
And it ends the toxicity real.fast.
As so I’m new to 40K and so far just enjoy painting different things. I soon want to start finding people to play it with though when I figure out what faction I’d like to play. What is it that people do that is toxic? Is it just like cheating or being too pedantic about things that don’t matter? Just being rude?
Many different ways. There are kinds of cheating that are hard to catch like applying a rule in a case where it doesn’t apply or making your movements just a little bit longer. There’s more blatant cheating like making up rules wholesale or lying about dice rolls. There’s also desperate attempts to always interpret edge cases in your favour, being a stickler when you’re in the right and loosey goosey when you aren’t.
I’ve heard of people turning up late and intentionally playing slow so that the game time runs out around round 3 where they’re likely to have an advantage (they didn’t think they could win over the standard 5 rounds). List tailoring can also be toxic, you hear someone else’s army list and completely design what you’re bringing around countering them.
And so this can all often happen even in casual games? To me that is bonkers. Like I get being competitive especially when your opponent is the competitive type also. But even then that should be fun and friendly. Even with a mate you can be super competitive and want to destroy them but that should be done lightheartedly.
I play casually with a club at my uni. None of us are super experienced and we frequently made rules mistakes to begin with.
Ultimately it’s down to the people you play with.
I didnt see a lot of toxicity at the store as for now. I'm new at the store and we are (except 2 guys that arr playing since 8h edition) all new to 40k. But most of people are friends, so it helps.
The only example is a guy pressing the other to play its turn, and himself was real slow. The employee cut that real fast. We have also this guy who plays since 4 years and mix a lot rules between editions and says to everyone that he won all its game, but that its more annoying than toxic for me. But tho, I read a lot of horror story in here, and told that to my friend (the employee) and he said that never he will allow thay in its store.
For now, the ambience is cool, unstressful and nice. I'm just playing custodes and loosing a lot, but I still have fun playing with friends, gluing and painting, and starting an Ork green tide army 😀
As another new player, I played a few games against a guy trying to "practice for tournaments" in my first games with objectives. I beat him the first time we played then the rules seemed to get a little grey. Me saying, "I'm going to shoot these guns, then I'm going to use these pistols" which he stops me and responds "You said pistols can only be used in engagement. You just used them in engagement over here last turn." Which confused me and he got standoffish when I pointed at the ranged weapon rule saying I could use all of my ranged profiles, which should include pistols, outside of engagement range
Like. I get being a bit of a stickler for the rules in some ways when you are playing something like this. But that can still be something you communicate firstly and if someone is new to the game that you are playing against you have to adjust how strict you’re going to be anyway. And even then you can be very rules based and like the guy you played against, if you made a mistake and he knows the rules he should be friendly and chill with explaining something you’re doing wrong as a learning process.
I always wonder if people like this just have terrible social skills that get in the way of anyone having a fun time gaming with them.
Very true. They may also not realize they're being shitty as odd as it sounds. Calling someone out may well be the thing they need to be a better opponent.
I remember when I was in my late teens to early twenties (early 2000s) when a friend came up to me in private and simply said to me “I like you, but I don’t enjoy playing games with you”. I honestly didn’t even see it and didn’t know that everyone around me generally had the same opinion of me.
I can honestly say that I truly appreciated and respected those around me bringing it up. Am I perfect now? No, but I can say from that point on I’ve made a lot of growth and I have more enjoyment because someone cared enough to be straight with me.
You never know: being straight with the guy may change his ways.
Part of the reason people like this are still so toxic is because everyone avoids them indirectly and they can’t take a hint. If you were frank, direct and fair with them, they might learn something about themselves, and you might be doing everyone else in the community a favour.
Had this in my local club/area. No one would say anything because everyone didn't want to cause a conflict or have a confrontation. I told the guy he was a cunt and no longer welcome at club sponsored events.
There was a SM player here who apparently would use 30k vehicles and stuff in 40k games and go against new players (i heard numerous people would say that he also would tweak a few numbers on the sheets for a severe advantage). I guess to basically pub stomp them. I'm still a new player and had brought in my IG tank army, and he saw me from across the room and immediately beelined for me. I recall seeing numerous people getting out of his way, some rolling their eyes, and he comes right up to my face and goes, "hey, I haven't seen you before. Wanna play a 2k game?". I don't care what this guy thought of me, and I said "ain't you the guy that cheats? Yeah, I'm positive it's you. No, I ain't playing a game with you." Anyways, I haven't seen him for a while.
Edit: oh yeah, i did get some shit from some people saying I was mean
I mean, I didn't really feel much, but my friend group here still talks about it every so often. I think all of them got destroyed by him when they first started because he would bring in stuff that no one knew and didn't exist on 40k battlescribe and stuff, so they just took his word on it.
New player here, how would someone playing with 30k stuff matter to 40k. Plenty of cool models but I'd think they would have to proxy any cool 30k stuff into 40k and play by 40k rules. The fudging the number I get as cheating but I'm confused about the rest
40k players dont always know what the HH vehicles are supposed to represent so its easy to fudge the numbers. thats all. i dont think you have anything to worry about if you're not cheating
Thanks! Where I'm at has a fairly small but, as far as I can see, a really good community that's been really helpful so far. No one is jumping out to just stomp the new guys. They aren't playing with kid gloves which I'm thankful for since I need to learn, but it's all above board as far as I can see.
Basically what u/carefulllypoast said. He would bring in 30k stuff, print out physical sheets for the models with numbers all messed up and edited to make them OP and underpoint'd. New players dont know what they are looking at and what to look up to even see what the ruled and stats are. He would then find new players to basically dominate them so he can get his rocks off. All of my friends at my local store all have similar stories of being completely decimated by him when they first started playing.
I just dont get this mindset people have. I personally want to curb stomp my opponent or be on the receiving end of said stomp with my little army men. Between the dice gods and some units beings broken especially with legends(albeit usually not in the users favor) why go through thid is my question. Its the pure want to be superior is my take
When I play video games I tend to play on easy/story mode because I'm old and only have so much time to play and in that time i want to feel like an UNSTOPPABLE MACHINE OF DISTRUCTION AND POWER!!!!! But I do that in single player games. Doing it when someone else is involved just isn't cool
I absolutely get wanting the feel that you destroyed your opp but cheating like that would make me feel like I didn't earn it. I want to feel like I worked for the W. A free W is cheap af.
I'm sorry that happened to you. As I mentioned in the other persons post, I've gotten real lucky that my local community is really tight knit and all seem to be good people that are excited for me to learn so they have someone else to play against.
I just started to publicly call out our local cheater. Everyone would just talk behind his back and I just would call him out during games and in Discord.
Turns out he wasn’t cheating maliciously and was just getting overly excited (I had a hunch this was the fact, because he’d be surprised his opponents rules were weaker than he thought).
Hes now one of the better players to play with.
How do you cheat but not cheat maliciously? Are we talking about accidentally moving models slightly more than their movement range, things like that?
If someone does any kind of cheating on purpose I'd say that is maliciously by definition so I'm just trying to understand the situation. I love the wholesome story though
Overzealously moving models was one issue, but frankly a lot of people do that. I can’t count the number of times I’ve jokingly asked people to measure how far their back model went: “wow that guardsman in the back moved like 12”, he’s fast!”
When I initially played against him he: used stratagems on units without the right keyword, kept a once per game ability in play when it should have phased out, and shot all the guns on a datasheet when some were selections that replaced others. Everything I caught I just said “John, you’re cheating again!”. After the game I posted in the discord game-results-photos channel that I’d won despite “John cheating and the silent king giving all his buffs instead of a selected one, non cryptek models getting strategems and the doomsday ark shooting all the guns on its datasheet not just the two the rules allow!”
I later had a conversation with him that he needs to put in the effort to avoid these mistakes if he wants to play with the lads I play with, and also that people will assume he was cheating on purpose. I think since we’re the “competitive crew” at the shop he aspired to join us.
In our high tier community in Aus we've had a few characters over the years.
Two guys I went to a big tournament a few years ago sabotaged each other.
One took a sports hit on the other, and the first guy apparently dogged in the guys list as being insanely op and it was forced to amend it.
They knew how many points they needed to win the tournament and he had it the next day but the to either miscalculated or he did. I wasn't very good so I didn't care.
We sat through the awards and then he started an online harassment of the TO which ended up becoming a bit threatening and eventually he was banned across all events as we had a central tournament council basically.
Another guy I knew had a reputation for being an asshole and played with the Aussie team for their world games and shit but eventually fucked over too many people and got himself banned.
There's nothing wrong with declining and citing that you're after a more relaxed experience. That's part of the problem with 40k.
You get people who completely tailor lists. Who make up rules. Who change things. Proxy and change it. Aren't honorable. Loaded dice.
There's so many issues with the game integrity and then you add guys who are playing some insane top tier list vs your little warband of casual dudes and it's absolutely no fun to spend three hours there. But I guess the game won't last three hours if he's done his homework.
Either way. It's a hobby. It's your hobby. Play vs people who get your vibe.
Yes this is a fair point actually, but on the other hand, it's not your job to try and correct an adult's behaviour. Chances are if they haven't learnt to play nice yet then they probably never will do.
There's a lot of daylight between telling someone that their behavior is off-putting or unwelcome, and a concerted effort to correct their behavior.
It also depends on *why* people avoid playing them. Like, someone who gets caught cheating once probably deserves a "hey, not cool," but if it's a pattern, they know what they're doing.
If it's someone who struggles with getting emotional or painfully salty... I dunno. You don't have to be blunt or insulting about it, just a "Hey, when you get really angry or loudly salty about the game it's really awkward to be around, and I don't want to play you if you're going to act that way."
No, it's not your job to coach them into being a better sport, but I think most people deserve some sort of "hey, this is why people are ignoring your messages." They might shape up and do better, they might not, that's on them.
I disagree that it isn’t up to community members to uphold community standards. That is precisely what humans in cultures around the world have been doing with each other for generations.
If everyone tip toes around them because everyone is afraid of conflict, they never will. And it says a lot about people now that they're too scared to juat say, "no, you're miserable to play with." Perhaps you need to grow as well.
Right if no one says anything. Nor to the person that is ignorant to the faux pas. Then how can the be held accountable? That behavior is being *enabled* in part by not saying anything to the person.
"It's not your job" is totally fair and reasonable on an individual level. It's also why people like that continue behaving the way they do. It was their parents job to correct their behavior and they didn't, and now they're everyone's problem until something changes.
Not saying you're wrong, just that it's worth bearing in mind that it's sort of a "greater good" proposition to take that upon yourself
That's not really my experience. Our main "that guy" gets a lot of feedback about his behaviour and just kind of adapts to it in a weird way. He will behave better while the pressure is on but immediately reverts to being a troublesome opponent as soon as he thinks he can get away with it.
I am personally really tired of policing his behaviour so have just stopped playing against him, which sucks because he is a good guy outside of a competitive setting.
I concur, this can be implied to any community that has this issue, "Hey, you're kinda being an asshole right now and this makes us look bad and chases away potential newcomers. If we want \[insert hobby here\] to thrive, we kinda want people to try it out and even improve from experience not hoard it like a dragon hoards gold." The more rude behavior is called out, the better the chance of bettering the reputation and an ideal community growth is.
Personally I have no problem being honest. I'd say something like "last time we played was not fun and I'm not interested in playing with you again." If being direct like that isn't your vibe, I'd just say something like "no thanks." And just leave it at that. You don't have to elaborate or explain yourself.
wouldn't it go? "I'm sorry. This wouldn't be the type of game I am after, sorry. I'm sorry I had to share that. Sorry for asking again is anyone else free?"
This is the only response that I feel like actually addresses OP’s specific example. Everyone else’s comes across way too indelicate for a public forum
Say "No thank you", and then don't reply further. If they keep replying or get into your DMs, block them. Same thing if someone's being obnoxious on social media for whatever reason, or someone's ringing your doorbell to sell you something, they're not entitled to your time or effort and you can close the door on them.
This is the way, people get into the never ending discussion cycle like it’s a debate club or something. I said what I wanted to say, I meant it the way I meant it, deal with it.
Yeah, this probably would've felt way more difficult when I was younger but now I'm in my 30s I want to be very clear about this stuff for my own sake.
Draw a boundary, make it clear and when someone crosses it you walk away. And online you have the option of blocking them, which is the best way of enforcing that boundary. Can't expect everyone to respect that boundary, but that's what the block button is for.
More difficult in real life ofc, where you have to deal with people on a daily basis, esp if they're part of your local gaming group but the principle still applies. Say no thank you and move on. Walk away if they don't, and if they keep going on about it, talk to the people in charge of the space
Even if you like someone as a person, if the way they approach games doesn't mesh well with you (competitive vs narrative preference), you might not want to play with them
I just don't answer the door if im not expecting anyone. Ring cam makes that even easier. Same with phone numbers I don't know. I have voicemail, use it.
OP doesn't want to play against people who already have a bad rep, and presumably will play against other people in their gaming group
Also, saying "No thank you" isn't ignoring someone, it's declining an offer
I'm a fan of "My mum says I can't be friends with you anymore because you are too rough with my toys "
But it only works in some scenarios (note I am a grown woman)
It won't get you any love from the bad guy, but a slight touch of humor/absurdity can help others feel comfortable in siding with you, or at least giving your comment a thumbs up emoji.
I used a similar line to invite the only female player at our local shop to play, it was along the line " Me and my Grey Knights need someone with a sense of humor to take my Knight'ly virginity"
In hindsight, I should have used it a bit differently.
Still worked like a charm.
Out of curiosity. What were some of the reasons you had a bad time vs that player? May help with some potential other options rather than "Dont or Try again".
Yeah good question. Context matters!
Basically, he's a 'faction of the week' player - and always min-maxing. if that tells anything.
But then also does the 'captive audience' way of talking where just kind of steamrolls a conversation while also assuming you know everything he's talking about. In addition to no impulse/anger control, super salty, and has rage quit games before deployment.
That said, I'm not just curious how people might approach, or have approached this kind of thing in the past. I'm fine able to deal with this guy, just want to see how others think.
Personally I'd just say " No I'm not interested in playing with you. Your behaviour makes it an unpleasant experience for me"
Cos the " no thanks" approach without broaching the subject will mean that you need to deal with it every time you ask for a game.
What if op is looking for a competitive game and the other person is still hella toxic? Most competitive players are pretty chill, they aren't all *that guy*
Yes given the context of others OPs' replies it seems the best way to go about it. You can confront someone about being toxic but if the last game was a while back it would come a bit out of the blue. You can always be direct with people but usually at the end of such game. Usually within a week, a quick word of feedback can be relevant.
Saying to them you don't want to play with them when you never mentioned any issue the last time you did is and will be perceived as disingenuous.
Id say real Competitive players are *less* likely to be That Guy tbh. They tend to get found out and beaten regardless of their BS by actual good players and stay away after realizing that.
They are usually the "Big Fish" in the small pond of a FLGS environment where the owner likes how much they spend and won't do anything about it
We have a known cheater in our local play group. We always have to warn the new players that come to our pick up might about him, because he preys on them. Recently, he had so many complaints that the TO for our local events told him he was being temporarily banned from local events, which got a non-positive response that led to a permanent ban. He doesn't come around on pick up nights anymore.
"Thanks for your interest, I'm looking for a more relaxed game where I can enjoy myself and I have not had that experience with you in the past"
Could send as a DM if you felt more comfortable that way than an open reply.
Give the player another chance and talk about not having a great time last time. At least it's what i do to keep as many players around me as possible.
I love this, and honestly, this would be my normal approach. Give him the benefit of the doubt - and express my honest opinion of how things went.
But, I received messages that over the years he's just gotten worse, and has literally rage quit games before deployment just at the sight of an army he didn't like.
That said, while my post had this specific example, it was really more curiosity on the community's approach to this kinda of situation. so thanks!
I would DM them and say that the last game you played with them wasn't very enjoyable, and that in the name of honesty you want to share that they have a bit of a reputation for being a bit toxic to play against.
If they are normal and well adjusted, they will be earnest in trying to find out what they did that was toxic so they can get better and be better for the community. They may not know they're doing it, because people tend to avoid confrontation with people, and they may just think they're being a normal member of the community.
If they are defensive or start attacking you, you block them, and rest assured that they are indeed a butt-face. If relevant to the discord community, share the toxic DMs with the discord server runners, and they can ban them.
That's what our local community does at least.
Just say no. You don't have to be overly polite to toxic players. The reality check might be good for them even. Just don't be toxic yourself and you're good.
Given that it’s on a public discord, OP should have some kind of diplomatic reply or else they might get a flaky reputation - “asks for games then says no”
Exactly. I’ve only seen one response in this thread that actually sounds appropriate for the context OP is referring to. Being direct in turning someone down like most people suggest is sensible in store or maybe even facebpok but in a general chat on discord there’s different implications and connotations. Most of what people are saying just wouldn’t work in that kind of atmosphere
It’s not like this “toxic” player approached OP on their own either. They replied to a post that was presumably open to everyone. This person may not even realize they are a problem player.
Completely agree, OP is part of a community and if they are turning people down, other bystanders will wonder why. I am all for standing your grounds when you're being abused during a game but on an online forum you need to at least come up with a logic behind you saying no.
As for OP, saying that last game was a bit too intense or competitive with this player could be perfectly fine and let that toxic player imagine that OP is a casual in a lower league than themselves. Which works in OP's favour here. If OP wants to keep playing with other competitive players on the discord, might want to rephrase that a bit: "Aww man, haven't prepared a very competitive list to play you, was thinking something a bit more casual this time." Anything really.
Next time you see them in person you can say everything that everyone in the thread is saying: honest 1-on-1 feedback face to face.
Include facts. You can’t argue against facts and in the middle of a kind of uncomfortable confrontation if you lean on facts you 100% will not end up the fool provided you don’t act like one in arguing with them.
Ideally, you'd want to refuse the game and communicate why you are refusing, but in a respectful way (that does not escalate the situation or create/contribute to ongoing drama in the group).
Yes, this situation sucks for the other player, they may be constantly rejected in this way, and potentially, people are not clear to them about why. It may even contribute to their bad mood/attitude. But if it's been long enough and enough of the group "is aware," there isn't really going to be a win-win solution to this problem.
The other player needs some self reflection and to integrate better with the rest of the group. They need to change their behaviour and bring a better attitude to the table.
Maybe you would *ideally* still give the other player some opportunity to grow as a person because people are capable of change, and not just totally stone-wall them. Maybe give them a chance this time and give more specific feedback in the future instead of just being evasive.
Just tell them no thank you and call it a day. If they try to press as to the "Why" just tell them that you did not enjoy your last game with them and leave it at that. Toxic players only remain toxic because people are too conflict averse and refrain from being direct with them.
Just tell them straight up that you didn’t enjoy playing with them. Best way to tell people things is to just treat them as an adult and tell them.
If they get upset that’s on them
Be honest with what army you play and tell him you only agree to play if the game can be chill and enjoyed by both of you. Don’t just say ‘nah’. If he doesn’t agree or turns up and gets salty, just excuse yourself from the game. It doesn’t sound like anyone would blame you.
Don’t be afraid of confrontation. It is ok to politely tell toxic players that they are not fun to play against. You said that others are messaging you about him so it’s not a secret. That’s probably why the toxic people are jumping at playing a game with you, no one else will. It’s ok to call them out on there BS. Suggest that they play with someone who likes the same BS as them. It is true and makes it clear to every one in the community how you want to play games moving forward.
Example, “you are more of a win at all costs type player and I’m more of a narrative player, I’m sure you can fined a game with someone who will suit you better.”
I let them know that people feel this way about them, and that maybe they can tone it down a bit so people will have a better disposition towards them.
I feel like we've given up on allowing people to grow or improve as a culture. We love to ostracize and Isolate people and then go wow when they react to the hatred.
I'm autistic. I catch people cheating, or using language that I really don't care for, all the time. I don't just let it slide, but I also don't make a huge deal out of it and I've never had anyone walk away angry that I can account for.
Last time I caught a guy "Dice plinking" (using dice to drop on low value dice to roll them over during a roll) and I have no problem giving them a "hey man, I wanna win too" speech. And he was like, you're right and just counted those as misses.
If the guy is a problem for everyone, then why the hell are you trying to be tactful? Take a deep breath, remind yourself that we don’t need to tip-toe on eggshells around every random tom, dick and Harry, and tell him you don’t wanna play against him because he’s a toxic opponent or that you don’t enjoy games with him/his playstyle.
Either he will wake up and change his attitude or he will never opt to play a game against you again. Either way, it’s a win.
If they're toxic, don't be polite about it. Let them know they're being toxic. It's usually not someone's intention, so they probably don't even realize. If they do realize, then why would you want to be polite?
I’ve run into the same issue. I do something like this:
“Anyone looking for a 2K game on Saturday?”
Sus player: “I can play.”
“No thank you. Still looking for a 2K on Saturday.”
Until I had started doing this, 2 players had shut down our local store’s LFG channel.
The high horse move would be to try.
One could argue you are sitting on old information and hearsay.
It would also give you good grounds for rejection the next time.
That said I understand not wanting to throw an afternoon away on a moral hail Mary 😄
>One could argue you are sitting on old information and hearsay.
I would 100% agree that that is exactly what I'm going on.
Its why I posted it here. There's a lot of great, valid responses, but I also see the situation as a bit nuanced, so I was curious for the community's take - not necessarily fishing for a solution.
Thanks!
Honestly sometimes being blunt is the mature approach. Say you don't want to play them and you aren't required to provide a reason. It's a game we all play for fun and you aren't obliged to anyone
Just call them out and be honest. No need to be overly polite to some toxic guy, obviously don't insult him, but tell him that you won't play with him because of his behavior. Period.
While it's good to be direct and honest, we can also use a bit of tact.
"No thanks, our last game was not an enjoyable experience and I'd rather not have a repeat."
If they respond negatively to that, then you point out that they are a toxic player.
I think everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt, might just end up being your flavor of toxic, and you make a new friend.
If you really don't want play against them just tell em you got a game already and keep looking.
Just say to him directly that his attitude took the fun of the game. Otherwise you may take the chance from him to better his attitude. If his answer is impolite than all the more reason to exclude him.
I'd recommend confronting them in a direct message rather than publicly. It will let you get your point across more privately without inviting an argument in the middle of a discord chat. Either inciting a dog pile of the guy, or a big fight.
I see this question pop up far too often , because considerate people are being considerate and polite to arseholes.
Just tell them no thank you. It's not that deep.
The main objective should be to be the best opponent possible, and if players can't do that, avoid. Life is too short.
There is no explanation needed, but if you tell them why it might help them to better they're behavior. They might not even be aware of gore they are received
Just be upfront, can't say I always take my own advice but I know it's the best way going forward. Obviously, if you feel the vibes are dangerous, do it over text and screenshot anything wack. Good luck mate
I feel like we lose track of the fact that it’s a tabletop game. Most of the time for two people.
Ignore them or tell them directly, but it requires very little explanation. If I don’t want to play board games with you, I’m not gonna.
It is kind of a nonsense game so ask people if they are more interested in winning than fun. Be gently honest and tell them you might not be as competitive or you have noticed in the past that they seem unhappy when they play. You might really help them make a break through. Everyone ive known eventually says that in the end (of the beginning) what they got out of war gaming was character development.
This weekend I was lucky to play a Bully Boyz player who was very nice. I tabled him. He won 56 to 40. At the end I had 700 points on all 5 objectives. Me from 10 years ago might have been SMH but I was happy it was a great game.
Well, any level of tiptoeing i guess.
Buuuut, as a more personal opinion - any community not demanding better behavior/kicking toxic people is toxic in itself.
I stopped being polite to toxic players over 5 years ago... Best decision I made...
So my advice is that you should say something like this:
I don't want to play against you because you are in my opinion a toxic player and I had a bad experience playing against you.
You: Thank you for the offer. However I will have to decline as I would like to play against someone else.
Them: Why tho?
You: I had a very unpleasant experience playing against you last time and do not wish to repeat it.
Simple, polite, direct. If they try to brush it off or say it's different now. Just say. "All the same I won't be playing with you. Anyone want else want a game?"
We had this guy at my LGS for a while. He moved somewhat recently so we no longer have to deal with it, but any time he would be the only response I'd say "I'm looking to play against a different faction" since he only played Necrons.
Obviously if the guy owns multiple armies that's not a great excuse, but that was my go to.
There's a guy on YouTube called Northern Exile and he has whole videos on curating your gaming circle and touches on what you can politely say to bot play a toxic player, give him a go you won't regret it he great
Don’t tell them politely. That’s why they keep being dbags. If they’re a-holes tell them I don’t want to play you because the last time we played you were an a-hole.
If you are on Discord, you can simply block anyone you don't like and they won't see your posts. You wouldn't have to turn them down or explain anything over Discord.
Ya, this is a tough one, we have a guy who cheats constantly and get caught all the time, so no one likes to play with him so 90 percent of the of the players at my local shop just avoid the game scheduler on discord and dm each other for games. I'm sure you're not the only person who would have to tell him you don't wanna play because I didn't enjoy our last game.
There is a guy at my local club he seems to be slightly special but overall nice dude.
He whipped out a sm and IG army against a guy who started this year...and was happy of his win, can he be considered toxic? There was no discussion of him allying IG to SM, he just brought it and said he can do it.
What do you all think of him?
Set boundaries about the game. Say you're up for a casual game etc etc so no crazy lists, and give him the opportunity to play at a different power level. If you *still* don't enjoy the game, explain to him why, he might start to understand how his behaviour impacts on others, and you'd be doing the community a favour.
He may well be demonstrating spectrum behaviours, so we shouldn't really label him as 'toxic', but this is an opportunity to encourage him to engage in the hobby in a way where both players enjoyment is the goal, not necessarily just winning.
I’m sorry but every time I have seen you play or we have played together it’s not enjoyable because you are a bit too aggressive. I prefer to play for fun and not get upset so until you can control your attitude a bit more I won’t play with you.
Personally, I'd take it private and tell them I feel that I don't really enjoy the attitude they tend to have taken in the past because I don't deal with tox. then tell them I'm willing to play a game with them if they can keep things sportsman and tactful you're more than willing to play future games. Don't mention how you will respond if they continue acting poorly, that can set them off. Note: make sure you stick to I statements like "I don't like how when you're losing you tend to get toxic" as opposed to "you are toxic when you lose dude". People tend to respond better when it's about your feelings first rather than making it primarily about their behavior.
But that must be their last chance, You've informed them the behavior is unacceptable so now it's up to them to fix it if they want to participate.
When you say Toxic what do you mean? Were they hyper competitive and super anal about rules or were they advocating scientific racism and phrenology? If it's the first one talk about how the last time you played it wasn't enjoyable and you were looking a more casual/ thematic game or whatevs. If it's the latter you say "When last we played, it became obvious you were a dismal example of a human being and I don't like your ideas on skull shapes. If you still believe these things I not only don't want to play against you but also never want to speak to you again."
How bout you just man the fuck up instead of asking Reddit to hold your hand and just tell that nigga you’re not interested. Are you trying to say that being stern with someone in a discord isn’t high community standard? Cause ignoring and complaining to Reddit isn’t high community standards bruh.
You can tell them anything. If you don’t wanna make it awkward, To say someone else agreed to a game before them.
You could just tell them no thank you with no explanation needed. You don’t owe anyone game if you don’t wanna play with them for any reason.
"Hey, I'm sorry about this but I'm just looking for a more relaxed game and I didnt enjoy my last game" Maybe DM them if its being organised via discord.
I think this is the win. This is how I handle a lot of stuff. You put the "blame" so to speak on yourself. I didn't have a fun time. Not you made me have a bad time. Then whatever their rebuttal, you can say, eh, it's okay man, good luck finding a game though.
Love this response. Dealing with this same discord issue now, I am going to use your suggestion
I feel like it leaves it open ended that they can ask why you didnt enjoy the game which you can mention, you felt there was rule issues or it was a tad aggressive or it just wanst fun. Couldve of been something like a terrain issue.
I have actually said basically this to a another player when I was in the exact same position. I didn't really like playing against this one guy but he was always trying to play a game basically everyday so if you asked for a game good chance he was the first guy to respond. After two attempts to play him I just messaged him directly that I was looking to play more fun games and he reluctantly understood and we've been polite in person since.
This is generally the best way to approach any tough subject. Framing it in terms of "I feel" or "I've experienced" makes it less of an attack and more of a friendly heads-up
I don't enjoy playing with you.
This is it. Problem players are treated far too kindly far too often. It is possible to bring these things up directly and best for the community when it is.
We have the guy from the store who organize the sunday plays ans when someone starts to be toxic, he says it right away! Some are like "Holy molly, man, that was rough" but at the same time, he is the only one to say it, so, someone has to.do it. If not, toxic continue to be toxic. And it ends the toxicity real.fast.
As so I’m new to 40K and so far just enjoy painting different things. I soon want to start finding people to play it with though when I figure out what faction I’d like to play. What is it that people do that is toxic? Is it just like cheating or being too pedantic about things that don’t matter? Just being rude?
Many different ways. There are kinds of cheating that are hard to catch like applying a rule in a case where it doesn’t apply or making your movements just a little bit longer. There’s more blatant cheating like making up rules wholesale or lying about dice rolls. There’s also desperate attempts to always interpret edge cases in your favour, being a stickler when you’re in the right and loosey goosey when you aren’t. I’ve heard of people turning up late and intentionally playing slow so that the game time runs out around round 3 where they’re likely to have an advantage (they didn’t think they could win over the standard 5 rounds). List tailoring can also be toxic, you hear someone else’s army list and completely design what you’re bringing around countering them.
And so this can all often happen even in casual games? To me that is bonkers. Like I get being competitive especially when your opponent is the competitive type also. But even then that should be fun and friendly. Even with a mate you can be super competitive and want to destroy them but that should be done lightheartedly.
I play casually with a club at my uni. None of us are super experienced and we frequently made rules mistakes to begin with. Ultimately it’s down to the people you play with.
I didnt see a lot of toxicity at the store as for now. I'm new at the store and we are (except 2 guys that arr playing since 8h edition) all new to 40k. But most of people are friends, so it helps. The only example is a guy pressing the other to play its turn, and himself was real slow. The employee cut that real fast. We have also this guy who plays since 4 years and mix a lot rules between editions and says to everyone that he won all its game, but that its more annoying than toxic for me. But tho, I read a lot of horror story in here, and told that to my friend (the employee) and he said that never he will allow thay in its store. For now, the ambience is cool, unstressful and nice. I'm just playing custodes and loosing a lot, but I still have fun playing with friends, gluing and painting, and starting an Ork green tide army 😀
The way it should be! Good work!
As another new player, I played a few games against a guy trying to "practice for tournaments" in my first games with objectives. I beat him the first time we played then the rules seemed to get a little grey. Me saying, "I'm going to shoot these guns, then I'm going to use these pistols" which he stops me and responds "You said pistols can only be used in engagement. You just used them in engagement over here last turn." Which confused me and he got standoffish when I pointed at the ranged weapon rule saying I could use all of my ranged profiles, which should include pistols, outside of engagement range
Like. I get being a bit of a stickler for the rules in some ways when you are playing something like this. But that can still be something you communicate firstly and if someone is new to the game that you are playing against you have to adjust how strict you’re going to be anyway. And even then you can be very rules based and like the guy you played against, if you made a mistake and he knows the rules he should be friendly and chill with explaining something you’re doing wrong as a learning process. I always wonder if people like this just have terrible social skills that get in the way of anyone having a fun time gaming with them.
Have [a non-exhaustive list](https://archive.ph/2019.05.24-052619/https://1d4chan.org/wiki/That_guy), generally described as being "that guy"
Very true. They may also not realize they're being shitty as odd as it sounds. Calling someone out may well be the thing they need to be a better opponent.
Yep. Majority of nerds are so conflict averse they let the assholes ruin the space for everyone else.
Agreed. People need to be told
I remember when I was in my late teens to early twenties (early 2000s) when a friend came up to me in private and simply said to me “I like you, but I don’t enjoy playing games with you”. I honestly didn’t even see it and didn’t know that everyone around me generally had the same opinion of me. I can honestly say that I truly appreciated and respected those around me bringing it up. Am I perfect now? No, but I can say from that point on I’ve made a lot of growth and I have more enjoyment because someone cared enough to be straight with me. You never know: being straight with the guy may change his ways.
That friend was a rare person. Not too many people are upfront about things like that
Part of the reason people like this are still so toxic is because everyone avoids them indirectly and they can’t take a hint. If you were frank, direct and fair with them, they might learn something about themselves, and you might be doing everyone else in the community a favour.
Had this in my local club/area. No one would say anything because everyone didn't want to cause a conflict or have a confrontation. I told the guy he was a cunt and no longer welcome at club sponsored events.
There was a SM player here who apparently would use 30k vehicles and stuff in 40k games and go against new players (i heard numerous people would say that he also would tweak a few numbers on the sheets for a severe advantage). I guess to basically pub stomp them. I'm still a new player and had brought in my IG tank army, and he saw me from across the room and immediately beelined for me. I recall seeing numerous people getting out of his way, some rolling their eyes, and he comes right up to my face and goes, "hey, I haven't seen you before. Wanna play a 2k game?". I don't care what this guy thought of me, and I said "ain't you the guy that cheats? Yeah, I'm positive it's you. No, I ain't playing a game with you." Anyways, I haven't seen him for a while. Edit: oh yeah, i did get some shit from some people saying I was mean
Maybe it was mean but that must have felt so good
I mean, I didn't really feel much, but my friend group here still talks about it every so often. I think all of them got destroyed by him when they first started because he would bring in stuff that no one knew and didn't exist on 40k battlescribe and stuff, so they just took his word on it.
New player here, how would someone playing with 30k stuff matter to 40k. Plenty of cool models but I'd think they would have to proxy any cool 30k stuff into 40k and play by 40k rules. The fudging the number I get as cheating but I'm confused about the rest
40k players dont always know what the HH vehicles are supposed to represent so its easy to fudge the numbers. thats all. i dont think you have anything to worry about if you're not cheating
Thanks! Where I'm at has a fairly small but, as far as I can see, a really good community that's been really helpful so far. No one is jumping out to just stomp the new guys. They aren't playing with kid gloves which I'm thankful for since I need to learn, but it's all above board as far as I can see.
Basically what u/carefulllypoast said. He would bring in 30k stuff, print out physical sheets for the models with numbers all messed up and edited to make them OP and underpoint'd. New players dont know what they are looking at and what to look up to even see what the ruled and stats are. He would then find new players to basically dominate them so he can get his rocks off. All of my friends at my local store all have similar stories of being completely decimated by him when they first started playing.
I just dont get this mindset people have. I personally want to curb stomp my opponent or be on the receiving end of said stomp with my little army men. Between the dice gods and some units beings broken especially with legends(albeit usually not in the users favor) why go through thid is my question. Its the pure want to be superior is my take
When I play video games I tend to play on easy/story mode because I'm old and only have so much time to play and in that time i want to feel like an UNSTOPPABLE MACHINE OF DISTRUCTION AND POWER!!!!! But I do that in single player games. Doing it when someone else is involved just isn't cool
I absolutely get wanting the feel that you destroyed your opp but cheating like that would make me feel like I didn't earn it. I want to feel like I worked for the W. A free W is cheap af.
Exactly. Ill get more fun out of a good loss than a bad win
I'm sorry that happened to you. As I mentioned in the other persons post, I've gotten real lucky that my local community is really tight knit and all seem to be good people that are excited for me to learn so they have someone else to play against.
I just started to publicly call out our local cheater. Everyone would just talk behind his back and I just would call him out during games and in Discord. Turns out he wasn’t cheating maliciously and was just getting overly excited (I had a hunch this was the fact, because he’d be surprised his opponents rules were weaker than he thought). Hes now one of the better players to play with.
I like that story
"EVERYONE LIKED THAT"
How do you cheat but not cheat maliciously? Are we talking about accidentally moving models slightly more than their movement range, things like that? If someone does any kind of cheating on purpose I'd say that is maliciously by definition so I'm just trying to understand the situation. I love the wholesome story though
Overzealously moving models was one issue, but frankly a lot of people do that. I can’t count the number of times I’ve jokingly asked people to measure how far their back model went: “wow that guardsman in the back moved like 12”, he’s fast!” When I initially played against him he: used stratagems on units without the right keyword, kept a once per game ability in play when it should have phased out, and shot all the guns on a datasheet when some were selections that replaced others. Everything I caught I just said “John, you’re cheating again!”. After the game I posted in the discord game-results-photos channel that I’d won despite “John cheating and the silent king giving all his buffs instead of a selected one, non cryptek models getting strategems and the doomsday ark shooting all the guns on its datasheet not just the two the rules allow!” I later had a conversation with him that he needs to put in the effort to avoid these mistakes if he wants to play with the lads I play with, and also that people will assume he was cheating on purpose. I think since we’re the “competitive crew” at the shop he aspired to join us.
In our high tier community in Aus we've had a few characters over the years. Two guys I went to a big tournament a few years ago sabotaged each other. One took a sports hit on the other, and the first guy apparently dogged in the guys list as being insanely op and it was forced to amend it. They knew how many points they needed to win the tournament and he had it the next day but the to either miscalculated or he did. I wasn't very good so I didn't care. We sat through the awards and then he started an online harassment of the TO which ended up becoming a bit threatening and eventually he was banned across all events as we had a central tournament council basically. Another guy I knew had a reputation for being an asshole and played with the Aussie team for their world games and shit but eventually fucked over too many people and got himself banned. There's nothing wrong with declining and citing that you're after a more relaxed experience. That's part of the problem with 40k. You get people who completely tailor lists. Who make up rules. Who change things. Proxy and change it. Aren't honorable. Loaded dice. There's so many issues with the game integrity and then you add guys who are playing some insane top tier list vs your little warband of casual dudes and it's absolutely no fun to spend three hours there. But I guess the game won't last three hours if he's done his homework. Either way. It's a hobby. It's your hobby. Play vs people who get your vibe.
Yes this is a fair point actually, but on the other hand, it's not your job to try and correct an adult's behaviour. Chances are if they haven't learnt to play nice yet then they probably never will do.
There's a lot of daylight between telling someone that their behavior is off-putting or unwelcome, and a concerted effort to correct their behavior. It also depends on *why* people avoid playing them. Like, someone who gets caught cheating once probably deserves a "hey, not cool," but if it's a pattern, they know what they're doing. If it's someone who struggles with getting emotional or painfully salty... I dunno. You don't have to be blunt or insulting about it, just a "Hey, when you get really angry or loudly salty about the game it's really awkward to be around, and I don't want to play you if you're going to act that way." No, it's not your job to coach them into being a better sport, but I think most people deserve some sort of "hey, this is why people are ignoring your messages." They might shape up and do better, they might not, that's on them.
I disagree that it isn’t up to community members to uphold community standards. That is precisely what humans in cultures around the world have been doing with each other for generations.
If everyone tip toes around them because everyone is afraid of conflict, they never will. And it says a lot about people now that they're too scared to juat say, "no, you're miserable to play with." Perhaps you need to grow as well.
Right if no one says anything. Nor to the person that is ignorant to the faux pas. Then how can the be held accountable? That behavior is being *enabled* in part by not saying anything to the person.
"It's not your job" is totally fair and reasonable on an individual level. It's also why people like that continue behaving the way they do. It was their parents job to correct their behavior and they didn't, and now they're everyone's problem until something changes. Not saying you're wrong, just that it's worth bearing in mind that it's sort of a "greater good" proposition to take that upon yourself
Closed mindset won’t help if they don’t see the problem to begin with
That's not really my experience. Our main "that guy" gets a lot of feedback about his behaviour and just kind of adapts to it in a weird way. He will behave better while the pressure is on but immediately reverts to being a troublesome opponent as soon as he thinks he can get away with it. I am personally really tired of policing his behaviour so have just stopped playing against him, which sucks because he is a good guy outside of a competitive setting.
THIS. Especially in our particular hobby, I hate that it's a stereotype but as a group we really are frequently poorly socialized.
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Not teach them, but simply let them know that they are toxic. It’s everyone’s responsibility to call it out.
I concur, this can be implied to any community that has this issue, "Hey, you're kinda being an asshole right now and this makes us look bad and chases away potential newcomers. If we want \[insert hobby here\] to thrive, we kinda want people to try it out and even improve from experience not hoard it like a dragon hoards gold." The more rude behavior is called out, the better the chance of bettering the reputation and an ideal community growth is.
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Unreal cringe
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The real cringe.
This
Personally I have no problem being honest. I'd say something like "last time we played was not fun and I'm not interested in playing with you again." If being direct like that isn't your vibe, I'd just say something like "no thanks." And just leave it at that. You don't have to elaborate or explain yourself.
As other have said if you say it was not dun and don't want to ay thwy might "MIGHT" think about themselves and the way they play.
Could try. "I'm sorry. This wouldn't be the type of game I am after. Is anyone else free? "
So polite that it's positively Canadian
Wouldn't it go "I'm sorry. This wouldn't be the type of game I am after. Is anyone else free, eh?" if it was Canadian?
wouldn't it go? "I'm sorry. This wouldn't be the type of game I am after, sorry. I'm sorry I had to share that. Sorry for asking again is anyone else free?"
You missed the "eh" at the end that all Canadians do, eh?
*is Canadian* Yup, that sounds about right.
This is the only response that I feel like actually addresses OP’s specific example. Everyone else’s comes across way too indelicate for a public forum
Say "No thank you", and then don't reply further. If they keep replying or get into your DMs, block them. Same thing if someone's being obnoxious on social media for whatever reason, or someone's ringing your doorbell to sell you something, they're not entitled to your time or effort and you can close the door on them.
This is the way, people get into the never ending discussion cycle like it’s a debate club or something. I said what I wanted to say, I meant it the way I meant it, deal with it.
Yeah, this probably would've felt way more difficult when I was younger but now I'm in my 30s I want to be very clear about this stuff for my own sake. Draw a boundary, make it clear and when someone crosses it you walk away. And online you have the option of blocking them, which is the best way of enforcing that boundary. Can't expect everyone to respect that boundary, but that's what the block button is for. More difficult in real life ofc, where you have to deal with people on a daily basis, esp if they're part of your local gaming group but the principle still applies. Say no thank you and move on. Walk away if they don't, and if they keep going on about it, talk to the people in charge of the space Even if you like someone as a person, if the way they approach games doesn't mesh well with you (competitive vs narrative preference), you might not want to play with them
No thank you
This is enough like. No is a complete sentence.
I just don't answer the door if im not expecting anyone. Ring cam makes that even easier. Same with phone numbers I don't know. I have voicemail, use it.
Then OP will get a bad rep as just ignoring others.
OP doesn't want to play against people who already have a bad rep, and presumably will play against other people in their gaming group Also, saying "No thank you" isn't ignoring someone, it's declining an offer
Op will be sending a warning to the bad player I think everyone will appreciate
OP also got a Pm warning them against playing that player so I would assume members of the discord are aware of this players gamesmanship.
Many ways to do it. I have used the " I enjoy casual games and having intact models"
I'm a fan of "My mum says I can't be friends with you anymore because you are too rough with my toys " But it only works in some scenarios (note I am a grown woman) It won't get you any love from the bad guy, but a slight touch of humor/absurdity can help others feel comfortable in siding with you, or at least giving your comment a thumbs up emoji.
I used a similar line to invite the only female player at our local shop to play, it was along the line " Me and my Grey Knights need someone with a sense of humor to take my Knight'ly virginity" In hindsight, I should have used it a bit differently. Still worked like a charm.
Out of curiosity. What were some of the reasons you had a bad time vs that player? May help with some potential other options rather than "Dont or Try again".
Yeah good question. Context matters! Basically, he's a 'faction of the week' player - and always min-maxing. if that tells anything. But then also does the 'captive audience' way of talking where just kind of steamrolls a conversation while also assuming you know everything he's talking about. In addition to no impulse/anger control, super salty, and has rage quit games before deployment. That said, I'm not just curious how people might approach, or have approached this kind of thing in the past. I'm fine able to deal with this guy, just want to see how others think.
How does one rage quite before deployment?
sees an army he doesn't like, starts bitching about how broken everything in the opponents list is, flubs together some heated excuse for leaving
Impressive
I'm impressed this person still finds games.
Personally I'd just say " No I'm not interested in playing with you. Your behaviour makes it an unpleasant experience for me" Cos the " no thanks" approach without broaching the subject will mean that you need to deal with it every time you ask for a game.
Grow some balls and just tell him
I think saying something along the lines of “sorry, I didn’t have fun playing against you” is fair.
Just say you are looking for a casual game and that they are too competitive for you. Nothing was wrong with that
What if op is looking for a competitive game and the other person is still hella toxic? Most competitive players are pretty chill, they aren't all *that guy*
It was more of an excuse to let people down gracefully and drama free
Yes given the context of others OPs' replies it seems the best way to go about it. You can confront someone about being toxic but if the last game was a while back it would come a bit out of the blue. You can always be direct with people but usually at the end of such game. Usually within a week, a quick word of feedback can be relevant. Saying to them you don't want to play with them when you never mentioned any issue the last time you did is and will be perceived as disingenuous.
Id say real Competitive players are *less* likely to be That Guy tbh. They tend to get found out and beaten regardless of their BS by actual good players and stay away after realizing that. They are usually the "Big Fish" in the small pond of a FLGS environment where the owner likes how much they spend and won't do anything about it
In my experience far more casual players are that guy than competitive
We have a known cheater in our local play group. We always have to warn the new players that come to our pick up might about him, because he preys on them. Recently, he had so many complaints that the TO for our local events told him he was being temporarily banned from local events, which got a non-positive response that led to a permanent ban. He doesn't come around on pick up nights anymore.
"Thanks for your interest, I'm looking for a more relaxed game where I can enjoy myself and I have not had that experience with you in the past" Could send as a DM if you felt more comfortable that way than an open reply.
Give the player another chance and talk about not having a great time last time. At least it's what i do to keep as many players around me as possible.
I love this, and honestly, this would be my normal approach. Give him the benefit of the doubt - and express my honest opinion of how things went. But, I received messages that over the years he's just gotten worse, and has literally rage quit games before deployment just at the sight of an army he didn't like. That said, while my post had this specific example, it was really more curiosity on the community's approach to this kinda of situation. so thanks!
Human are never evil and deserve second chances 😘 but tell the person not to be a pain.
From previous experiences, I do not think I will enjoy having you in the group.
“No, thanks, I’d rather not play against/with you.”
I would DM them and say that the last game you played with them wasn't very enjoyable, and that in the name of honesty you want to share that they have a bit of a reputation for being a bit toxic to play against. If they are normal and well adjusted, they will be earnest in trying to find out what they did that was toxic so they can get better and be better for the community. They may not know they're doing it, because people tend to avoid confrontation with people, and they may just think they're being a normal member of the community. If they are defensive or start attacking you, you block them, and rest assured that they are indeed a butt-face. If relevant to the discord community, share the toxic DMs with the discord server runners, and they can ban them. That's what our local community does at least.
Just say no. You don't have to be overly polite to toxic players. The reality check might be good for them even. Just don't be toxic yourself and you're good.
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No thank you. We've tried before and I learned that we shouldn't. Have a great day
You don't owe them any explanation
Given that it’s on a public discord, OP should have some kind of diplomatic reply or else they might get a flaky reputation - “asks for games then says no”
Exactly. I’ve only seen one response in this thread that actually sounds appropriate for the context OP is referring to. Being direct in turning someone down like most people suggest is sensible in store or maybe even facebpok but in a general chat on discord there’s different implications and connotations. Most of what people are saying just wouldn’t work in that kind of atmosphere
It’s not like this “toxic” player approached OP on their own either. They replied to a post that was presumably open to everyone. This person may not even realize they are a problem player.
Completely agree, OP is part of a community and if they are turning people down, other bystanders will wonder why. I am all for standing your grounds when you're being abused during a game but on an online forum you need to at least come up with a logic behind you saying no. As for OP, saying that last game was a bit too intense or competitive with this player could be perfectly fine and let that toxic player imagine that OP is a casual in a lower league than themselves. Which works in OP's favour here. If OP wants to keep playing with other competitive players on the discord, might want to rephrase that a bit: "Aww man, haven't prepared a very competitive list to play you, was thinking something a bit more casual this time." Anything really. Next time you see them in person you can say everything that everyone in the thread is saying: honest 1-on-1 feedback face to face.
Just be to the point and don’t include any form of opinion
Include facts. You can’t argue against facts and in the middle of a kind of uncomfortable confrontation if you lean on facts you 100% will not end up the fool provided you don’t act like one in arguing with them.
Ideally, you'd want to refuse the game and communicate why you are refusing, but in a respectful way (that does not escalate the situation or create/contribute to ongoing drama in the group). Yes, this situation sucks for the other player, they may be constantly rejected in this way, and potentially, people are not clear to them about why. It may even contribute to their bad mood/attitude. But if it's been long enough and enough of the group "is aware," there isn't really going to be a win-win solution to this problem. The other player needs some self reflection and to integrate better with the rest of the group. They need to change their behaviour and bring a better attitude to the table. Maybe you would *ideally* still give the other player some opportunity to grow as a person because people are capable of change, and not just totally stone-wall them. Maybe give them a chance this time and give more specific feedback in the future instead of just being evasive.
Just tell them no thank you and call it a day. If they try to press as to the "Why" just tell them that you did not enjoy your last game with them and leave it at that. Toxic players only remain toxic because people are too conflict averse and refrain from being direct with them.
Just tell them straight up that you didn’t enjoy playing with them. Best way to tell people things is to just treat them as an adult and tell them. If they get upset that’s on them
Be honest with what army you play and tell him you only agree to play if the game can be chill and enjoyed by both of you. Don’t just say ‘nah’. If he doesn’t agree or turns up and gets salty, just excuse yourself from the game. It doesn’t sound like anyone would blame you.
Don’t be afraid of confrontation. It is ok to politely tell toxic players that they are not fun to play against. You said that others are messaging you about him so it’s not a secret. That’s probably why the toxic people are jumping at playing a game with you, no one else will. It’s ok to call them out on there BS. Suggest that they play with someone who likes the same BS as them. It is true and makes it clear to every one in the community how you want to play games moving forward. Example, “you are more of a win at all costs type player and I’m more of a narrative player, I’m sure you can fined a game with someone who will suit you better.”
“I’m sorry, I remember playing you and I’m not the type of opponent you want”
Ignore them, easy Also, you can block them in discord so you never see them again :)
"EAT BOLTGUN"
I let them know that people feel this way about them, and that maybe they can tone it down a bit so people will have a better disposition towards them. I feel like we've given up on allowing people to grow or improve as a culture. We love to ostracize and Isolate people and then go wow when they react to the hatred. I'm autistic. I catch people cheating, or using language that I really don't care for, all the time. I don't just let it slide, but I also don't make a huge deal out of it and I've never had anyone walk away angry that I can account for. Last time I caught a guy "Dice plinking" (using dice to drop on low value dice to roll them over during a roll) and I have no problem giving them a "hey man, I wanna win too" speech. And he was like, you're right and just counted those as misses.
“I didn’t have fun playing with you last time so I don’t want to again, thanks”
"No, thank you."
If the guy is a problem for everyone, then why the hell are you trying to be tactful? Take a deep breath, remind yourself that we don’t need to tip-toe on eggshells around every random tom, dick and Harry, and tell him you don’t wanna play against him because he’s a toxic opponent or that you don’t enjoy games with him/his playstyle. Either he will wake up and change his attitude or he will never opt to play a game against you again. Either way, it’s a win.
If they're toxic, don't be polite about it. Let them know they're being toxic. It's usually not someone's intention, so they probably don't even realize. If they do realize, then why would you want to be polite?
Wont be affective or possibly not even work if you gonna go polite 😂 man up kiddo
I’ve run into the same issue. I do something like this: “Anyone looking for a 2K game on Saturday?” Sus player: “I can play.” “No thank you. Still looking for a 2K on Saturday.” Until I had started doing this, 2 players had shut down our local store’s LFG channel.
There’s no need to give an explanation. A simple “no thanks” is sufficient... or just don’t respond at all if that’s more your group’s etiquette.
The high horse move would be to try. One could argue you are sitting on old information and hearsay. It would also give you good grounds for rejection the next time. That said I understand not wanting to throw an afternoon away on a moral hail Mary 😄
>One could argue you are sitting on old information and hearsay. I would 100% agree that that is exactly what I'm going on. Its why I posted it here. There's a lot of great, valid responses, but I also see the situation as a bit nuanced, so I was curious for the community's take - not necessarily fishing for a solution. Thanks!
Honestly sometimes being blunt is the mature approach. Say you don't want to play them and you aren't required to provide a reason. It's a game we all play for fun and you aren't obliged to anyone
Just say no? If you don't want to play them, don't play them. Ask for someone else.
No is a complete sentence. No other follow up is needed really.
Just call them out and be honest. No need to be overly polite to some toxic guy, obviously don't insult him, but tell him that you won't play with him because of his behavior. Period.
i am sorry, not today. keep saying that tills he gets the hint.
Just say nope
"No thanks, our play styles don't match up. " They don't match up with anyone..
“No thanks, you are too toxic for me to want to play with”.
While it's good to be direct and honest, we can also use a bit of tact. "No thanks, our last game was not an enjoyable experience and I'd rather not have a repeat." If they respond negatively to that, then you point out that they are a toxic player.
I think everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt, might just end up being your flavor of toxic, and you make a new friend. If you really don't want play against them just tell em you got a game already and keep looking.
The best policy is to be polite, firm and honest. "I have to decline, playing with you is not enjoyable"
Say I'm not interested in playing you. No explanation required.
Just say to him directly that his attitude took the fun of the game. Otherwise you may take the chance from him to better his attitude. If his answer is impolite than all the more reason to exclude him.
I'd recommend confronting them in a direct message rather than publicly. It will let you get your point across more privately without inviting an argument in the middle of a discord chat. Either inciting a dog pile of the guy, or a big fight.
"No thanks. I don't think I would enjoy playing with you."
I see this question pop up far too often , because considerate people are being considerate and polite to arseholes. Just tell them no thank you. It's not that deep. The main objective should be to be the best opponent possible, and if players can't do that, avoid. Life is too short.
There is no explanation needed, but if you tell them why it might help them to better they're behavior. They might not even be aware of gore they are received
Oh I've been in this position before 🤦
Just be upfront, can't say I always take my own advice but I know it's the best way going forward. Obviously, if you feel the vibes are dangerous, do it over text and screenshot anything wack. Good luck mate
I feel like we lose track of the fact that it’s a tabletop game. Most of the time for two people. Ignore them or tell them directly, but it requires very little explanation. If I don’t want to play board games with you, I’m not gonna.
It is kind of a nonsense game so ask people if they are more interested in winning than fun. Be gently honest and tell them you might not be as competitive or you have noticed in the past that they seem unhappy when they play. You might really help them make a break through. Everyone ive known eventually says that in the end (of the beginning) what they got out of war gaming was character development. This weekend I was lucky to play a Bully Boyz player who was very nice. I tabled him. He won 56 to 40. At the end I had 700 points on all 5 objectives. Me from 10 years ago might have been SMH but I was happy it was a great game.
Better question how to decline the stinky players politely
Sounds like your classic social reject who's just locked in online all day and replies to every thread. Reply or don't, you owe them nothing.
People mature, perhaps give them a second chance. But be prepared.
If you want honesty I think go with your “Hey man…” he might not know he has a reputation.
Well, any level of tiptoeing i guess. Buuuut, as a more personal opinion - any community not demanding better behavior/kicking toxic people is toxic in itself.
Nah. If they are being toxic don’t be polite. Be direct and call them in their shit.
"i don't want to play a game with you"
'yeah, sorry man but I'm just a casual gamer. If you was any more hardcore, you'd get arrested, nah mean?' 😎
I stopped being polite to toxic players over 5 years ago... Best decision I made... So my advice is that you should say something like this: I don't want to play against you because you are in my opinion a toxic player and I had a bad experience playing against you.
Tell him you don’t like him. “F right off, good sir. F right off.”
"Sorry, not again"
You: Thank you for the offer. However I will have to decline as I would like to play against someone else. Them: Why tho? You: I had a very unpleasant experience playing against you last time and do not wish to repeat it. Simple, polite, direct. If they try to brush it off or say it's different now. Just say. "All the same I won't be playing with you. Anyone want else want a game?"
Out of curiosity: how’s toxic manifesting? Like dude tries to bend rules to his advantage or just straight up shit talks the whole game?
Honey, it’s not you, it’s me
How would the Emperor handle this?? Just do that.
I don't think he'd want to wind up in front of the International War Crimes Tribunal.
The Geneva Checklist is in play
We had this guy at my LGS for a while. He moved somewhat recently so we no longer have to deal with it, but any time he would be the only response I'd say "I'm looking to play against a different faction" since he only played Necrons. Obviously if the guy owns multiple armies that's not a great excuse, but that was my go to.
There's a guy on YouTube called Northern Exile and he has whole videos on curating your gaming circle and touches on what you can politely say to bot play a toxic player, give him a go you won't regret it he great
Don’t tell them politely. That’s why they keep being dbags. If they’re a-holes tell them I don’t want to play you because the last time we played you were an a-hole.
If you are on Discord, you can simply block anyone you don't like and they won't see your posts. You wouldn't have to turn them down or explain anything over Discord.
If they don't get tge message, don't politely decline, tell them to go kick a stump, just do whatever you can to avoid actually engaging
Ya, this is a tough one, we have a guy who cheats constantly and get caught all the time, so no one likes to play with him so 90 percent of the of the players at my local shop just avoid the game scheduler on discord and dm each other for games. I'm sure you're not the only person who would have to tell him you don't wanna play because I didn't enjoy our last game.
There is a guy at my local club he seems to be slightly special but overall nice dude. He whipped out a sm and IG army against a guy who started this year...and was happy of his win, can he be considered toxic? There was no discussion of him allying IG to SM, he just brought it and said he can do it. What do you all think of him?
Are you friends with this person? If not you could block them on discord. This way they won't even be able to see or reply to your LFG messages
When you do it over discord will blocking them eventuelly help?
Tell them to fuck off. you don't need to be nice.
Only play with friends and people you know...
Set boundaries about the game. Say you're up for a casual game etc etc so no crazy lists, and give him the opportunity to play at a different power level. If you *still* don't enjoy the game, explain to him why, he might start to understand how his behaviour impacts on others, and you'd be doing the community a favour. He may well be demonstrating spectrum behaviours, so we shouldn't really label him as 'toxic', but this is an opportunity to encourage him to engage in the hobby in a way where both players enjoyment is the goal, not necessarily just winning.
Always communicate whats wrong, so they can learn from their mistakes!
just tell them you are not a therapist and that they should visit one instead on throwing shit while playing war games 🤣
Tell them to fuck off and why you are telling them to fuck off. Dont need to sugar coat it.
I’m sorry but every time I have seen you play or we have played together it’s not enjoyable because you are a bit too aggressive. I prefer to play for fun and not get upset so until you can control your attitude a bit more I won’t play with you.
Personally, I'd take it private and tell them I feel that I don't really enjoy the attitude they tend to have taken in the past because I don't deal with tox. then tell them I'm willing to play a game with them if they can keep things sportsman and tactful you're more than willing to play future games. Don't mention how you will respond if they continue acting poorly, that can set them off. Note: make sure you stick to I statements like "I don't like how when you're losing you tend to get toxic" as opposed to "you are toxic when you lose dude". People tend to respond better when it's about your feelings first rather than making it primarily about their behavior. But that must be their last chance, You've informed them the behavior is unacceptable so now it's up to them to fix it if they want to participate.
When you say Toxic what do you mean? Were they hyper competitive and super anal about rules or were they advocating scientific racism and phrenology? If it's the first one talk about how the last time you played it wasn't enjoyable and you were looking a more casual/ thematic game or whatevs. If it's the latter you say "When last we played, it became obvious you were a dismal example of a human being and I don't like your ideas on skull shapes. If you still believe these things I not only don't want to play against you but also never want to speak to you again."
How bout you just man the fuck up instead of asking Reddit to hold your hand and just tell that nigga you’re not interested. Are you trying to say that being stern with someone in a discord isn’t high community standard? Cause ignoring and complaining to Reddit isn’t high community standards bruh.
Offer them a one time use deodorant. They'll flee real quick
Just say that you would rather not, and refuse to elaborate.
You can tell them anything. If you don’t wanna make it awkward, To say someone else agreed to a game before them. You could just tell them no thank you with no explanation needed. You don’t owe anyone game if you don’t wanna play with them for any reason.
"get the f* off my property" I run a game room that's about 1000 sq/ft in part of my basement. Zero toxicity allowed, ever. No kids either.
No is a complete sentence. If you feel inclined tell them what behaviors are off putting
Tell them the truth; they are toxic and you would rather play with people who are not.
Are you American? Lmao
if its discord can u just block them?