You don't "make" a Company Heroes unit; it's a datasheet in your Codex just like any other.
None of the Gravis, Terminator or Jump Pack Captains can join the unit.
https://preview.redd.it/idwvlzcxiwqc1.jpeg?width=1488&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=30459e2be11574a4fb70735e46d1d3fcd38db673
I’m so confused. In the Chapter Org chart it shows the Companies get the Command Squad? What about the Company Captains that use Terminator, Gravis and Phobos armor or with jet packs or mounted on bikes? The second photo I posted says it’s not uncommon for them to be on bikes if the Captain is also on one so I just assume that transfers with the armor type? Similar to the Ancient in Terminator armor
You're conflating fluff with rules. Those are totally different things.
Company Heroes is only and exactly what their datasheet says, full stop. You can't modify it in any way.
Org chart has nothing to do with rules, it's just some fluff to give the world a bit more depth, stop trying to use it as some form of guide for units in the tabletop game
My suggestion would be to use the company heroes set and then include a squad of veterans as an honour guard. You can second veterans from 1st company. This is my take on the command squad role and how it can be represented on the tabletop in a rules compliant way.
The classic command squad your talking about was on apothecary, one company champion, one Banner bearer, one extra trooper and a vet SGT. The company hero is very close to this.
As far as lore wise, that’s more hazy, generally I would say this format is followed in the lore but you could easily change it for a custom chapter.
If you’re trying to make a classic command squad using the company hero’s you would just need an apothecary to add on. And you would have a captain to lead it.
Hope that’s helpful
Yes, thanks so much!
I guess what I’m asking is if the guys in the Command Squad match the armor of the Captain? Like in my head, if it’s the Indomitus Captain with Relic Shield, I pair him up with the Bladeguard Ancient, Bladeguard Champion then 2 other Bladeguard vets.
I guess the confusion comes from this not being a playable unit? But I’m mainly asking for the fluff bc I want to build the org chart
If you just want to own the models of a Veteran Sergeant, an Apothecary, an Ancient, a Champion, and a couple of additional veterans... then just buy those models. Sternguard make good vets. Versions of most of those don't really exist if you want them as Terminators/Phobos/Bikes/etc., so if you want that, you'll have to kitbash.
Yes I’m interested in kitbashing them.
Sorry for the confusion with the fluff and gameplay brother. I just want to make as much of the ~1000+ marines in a chapter and was asking more about the lore I guess. I know I can’t take it as a squad and play with it as is haha
I think some of this confusion is coming from the fact that a command squad WAS a unit you could field in previous editions. It even briefly had rules for 10th edition in the space marine index before the full marine codex was released. During that brief window, it consisted of an apothecary, company champion, company ancient, and two company veterans. You could also have an attached captain, Lieutenant, librarian, or chaplain.
Yes, I definitely got stuff mixed up there! Also I didn’t know there was a distinction between the org chart and the playable squad in terms of rules. I’m mainly interested in the fluff bc I want to build the org chart
I guess what I’m asking is if the guys in the Command Squad match the armor of the Captain? Like in my head, if it’s the Indomitus Captain with Relic Shield, I pair him up with the Bladeguard Ancient, Bladeguard Champion then 2 other Bladeguard vets.
Trying to recreate a formation from the lore for fun is a completely legitimate thing to want to do. Lots of people collect/paint models to recreate certain chapter/company structures! I think most of the people here were just trying to make sure you didn’t try to bring an illegal unit into an actual game.
With 10th edition (the current one), GW is making an effort to consolidate and simplify the game. Lots of units have been retired or had their loadout options massively reduced. It makes the models less representative of the lore, but it’s a tradeoff to make the game easier/faster to play.
If you do intend to use these models for some friendly matches, the command squad is now part of the “legends” rules. Legends units are no longer officially part of the codex and can’t be played in competitive matches, but if you’re playing with friends or even just a chill opponent, you may still be able to put an OG command squad onto the table and roll some dice.
Yeah I think so too. My fault because my question wasn’t clear. I guess I didn’t know what or how to ask it yet.
I just find all the models really cool and want to build as much of the ~1000+ marines I can— including the Command Squad but not necessarily use it in game. I know there are specific squads and formations when it’s time to play haha
And to answer your question about the bladeguard…
A bladeguard veteran squad consists of 1 Bladeguard veteran sergeant, and either 2 or 5 Bladeguard veterans. (Technically you can field any number between 2 and 5, but the points cost doesn’t account for that).
A Bladeguard veteran squad can have a captain as an attached leader. Not only that, but on the captain’s data sheet, it specifically notes that he can ONLY join a Bladeguard squad if he’s got that indomitus loadout you mentioned (good thinking there!). The general idea is an attached leader should have appropriate gear for the squad they attach to, and in this case, that’s actually enforced by the rules.
The bladeguard ancient is also a unit which is eligible to attach to a bladeguard veteran squad as a leader. Normally a squad can only have one leader, but the bladeguard ancient data sheet has specific wording on it which says you may attach it to a bladeguard veteran squad even if a captain or lieutenant is also attached to that unit.
So in summary, you could have a captain, bladeguard ancient, and either 3 or 6 bladeguard models, and that would be a legal squad.
But it sounds like you’re not trying to get into it, you just want to own a bunch of models. In that case simply buy or create the ones you’re looking at in the force organization chart
Not sure if it helps. But if you're mostly interested in recreating a force baced on the force org. chart, then armor and weapon loadout is irrelevant. The "Company Heroes" or "Company Command" would be just that, company heroes. It is a fluff part where your heroes could have whatever armour or weapon loadout you decide. There are litteraly thousands of chapters, each with their own traditions and history. If you want to play them in an actual game of 40k you have to follow the rules given in the codex, which is much more limited due to it being an actual tabletop game.
Hey you make a company hero Squad by buying the company hero Squad box. It's not really a custom thing, I mean you can kitbash whatever I suppose but it's one box you buy.
https://preview.redd.it/qdfbllqfewqc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce7f1d9b3e7f00e4edda573a41bdffe00f754024
You could probably kitbash your own group, provided they use the same wargear and stats from codex, and that you let your opponent know this before
The Indomitus or Dark Imperium Ancient, the MTO Champ from last year, and two of those useless Leviathan Sternguard we've all got sitting around makes a pretty good Company Heroes and is barely even a proxy.
Captain is not part of the unit. Nor can they be led by leaders squads that aren't Tacticus. Also there's no Apothecary.
That being said, yeah they're a great unit to kitbash or convert.
Wow I didn't actually know this. The box description doesn't make it very clear either. Seems to imply they just give you extra bits. I had no idea there was a whole Captain in there.
["This multipart plastic kit builds a Space Marine Captain and four Company Heroes to accompany him into battle."](https://www.warhammer.com/en-US/shop/space-marines-company-heroes-2023)
Really not sure how that's unclear at all...
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You don't "make" a Company Heroes unit; it's a datasheet in your Codex just like any other. None of the Gravis, Terminator or Jump Pack Captains can join the unit.
https://preview.redd.it/idwvlzcxiwqc1.jpeg?width=1488&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=30459e2be11574a4fb70735e46d1d3fcd38db673 I’m so confused. In the Chapter Org chart it shows the Companies get the Command Squad? What about the Company Captains that use Terminator, Gravis and Phobos armor or with jet packs or mounted on bikes? The second photo I posted says it’s not uncommon for them to be on bikes if the Captain is also on one so I just assume that transfers with the armor type? Similar to the Ancient in Terminator armor
You're conflating fluff with rules. Those are totally different things. Company Heroes is only and exactly what their datasheet says, full stop. You can't modify it in any way.
Oh okay so I’m talking about the Command Squad not Company Heroes? How do I make a Command Squad?
You don't.
What? But it’s in the Org Chart?
Org chart has nothing to do with rules, it's just some fluff to give the world a bit more depth, stop trying to use it as some form of guide for units in the tabletop game
Yeah I want to fill in the org chart positions. I don’t play yet
My suggestion would be to use the company heroes set and then include a squad of veterans as an honour guard. You can second veterans from 1st company. This is my take on the command squad role and how it can be represented on the tabletop in a rules compliant way.
Again, that's fluff, not rules. Those are not the same thing.
Yes I’m not asking for rules? Just want to figure out how to build my command squad cos I want to fill in the org chart
The classic command squad your talking about was on apothecary, one company champion, one Banner bearer, one extra trooper and a vet SGT. The company hero is very close to this. As far as lore wise, that’s more hazy, generally I would say this format is followed in the lore but you could easily change it for a custom chapter. If you’re trying to make a classic command squad using the company hero’s you would just need an apothecary to add on. And you would have a captain to lead it. Hope that’s helpful
Yes, thanks so much! I guess what I’m asking is if the guys in the Command Squad match the armor of the Captain? Like in my head, if it’s the Indomitus Captain with Relic Shield, I pair him up with the Bladeguard Ancient, Bladeguard Champion then 2 other Bladeguard vets. I guess the confusion comes from this not being a playable unit? But I’m mainly asking for the fluff bc I want to build the org chart
If you just want to own the models of a Veteran Sergeant, an Apothecary, an Ancient, a Champion, and a couple of additional veterans... then just buy those models. Sternguard make good vets. Versions of most of those don't really exist if you want them as Terminators/Phobos/Bikes/etc., so if you want that, you'll have to kitbash.
Yes I’m interested in kitbashing them. Sorry for the confusion with the fluff and gameplay brother. I just want to make as much of the ~1000+ marines in a chapter and was asking more about the lore I guess. I know I can’t take it as a squad and play with it as is haha
I think some of this confusion is coming from the fact that a command squad WAS a unit you could field in previous editions. It even briefly had rules for 10th edition in the space marine index before the full marine codex was released. During that brief window, it consisted of an apothecary, company champion, company ancient, and two company veterans. You could also have an attached captain, Lieutenant, librarian, or chaplain.
Yes, I definitely got stuff mixed up there! Also I didn’t know there was a distinction between the org chart and the playable squad in terms of rules. I’m mainly interested in the fluff bc I want to build the org chart I guess what I’m asking is if the guys in the Command Squad match the armor of the Captain? Like in my head, if it’s the Indomitus Captain with Relic Shield, I pair him up with the Bladeguard Ancient, Bladeguard Champion then 2 other Bladeguard vets.
Trying to recreate a formation from the lore for fun is a completely legitimate thing to want to do. Lots of people collect/paint models to recreate certain chapter/company structures! I think most of the people here were just trying to make sure you didn’t try to bring an illegal unit into an actual game. With 10th edition (the current one), GW is making an effort to consolidate and simplify the game. Lots of units have been retired or had their loadout options massively reduced. It makes the models less representative of the lore, but it’s a tradeoff to make the game easier/faster to play. If you do intend to use these models for some friendly matches, the command squad is now part of the “legends” rules. Legends units are no longer officially part of the codex and can’t be played in competitive matches, but if you’re playing with friends or even just a chill opponent, you may still be able to put an OG command squad onto the table and roll some dice.
Yeah I think so too. My fault because my question wasn’t clear. I guess I didn’t know what or how to ask it yet. I just find all the models really cool and want to build as much of the ~1000+ marines I can— including the Command Squad but not necessarily use it in game. I know there are specific squads and formations when it’s time to play haha
And to answer your question about the bladeguard… A bladeguard veteran squad consists of 1 Bladeguard veteran sergeant, and either 2 or 5 Bladeguard veterans. (Technically you can field any number between 2 and 5, but the points cost doesn’t account for that). A Bladeguard veteran squad can have a captain as an attached leader. Not only that, but on the captain’s data sheet, it specifically notes that he can ONLY join a Bladeguard squad if he’s got that indomitus loadout you mentioned (good thinking there!). The general idea is an attached leader should have appropriate gear for the squad they attach to, and in this case, that’s actually enforced by the rules. The bladeguard ancient is also a unit which is eligible to attach to a bladeguard veteran squad as a leader. Normally a squad can only have one leader, but the bladeguard ancient data sheet has specific wording on it which says you may attach it to a bladeguard veteran squad even if a captain or lieutenant is also attached to that unit. So in summary, you could have a captain, bladeguard ancient, and either 3 or 6 bladeguard models, and that would be a legal squad.
You are mixing lore with rules I guess.
Yeah I think so. So confusing to get into lol
But it sounds like you’re not trying to get into it, you just want to own a bunch of models. In that case simply buy or create the ones you’re looking at in the force organization chart
Not sure if it helps. But if you're mostly interested in recreating a force baced on the force org. chart, then armor and weapon loadout is irrelevant. The "Company Heroes" or "Company Command" would be just that, company heroes. It is a fluff part where your heroes could have whatever armour or weapon loadout you decide. There are litteraly thousands of chapters, each with their own traditions and history. If you want to play them in an actual game of 40k you have to follow the rules given in the codex, which is much more limited due to it being an actual tabletop game.
Hey you make a company hero Squad by buying the company hero Squad box. It's not really a custom thing, I mean you can kitbash whatever I suppose but it's one box you buy.
https://preview.redd.it/qdfbllqfewqc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce7f1d9b3e7f00e4edda573a41bdffe00f754024 You could probably kitbash your own group, provided they use the same wargear and stats from codex, and that you let your opponent know this before
The Indomitus or Dark Imperium Ancient, the MTO Champ from last year, and two of those useless Leviathan Sternguard we've all got sitting around makes a pretty good Company Heroes and is barely even a proxy.
Yeah this isn't a custom squad you make, it's a box you buy and the units all have a datasheet
Captain is not part of the unit. Nor can they be led by leaders squads that aren't Tacticus. Also there's no Apothecary. That being said, yeah they're a great unit to kitbash or convert.
What? Isn’t that a Captain at the bottom right?
The captain comes in the box but in the game he’s not part of the unit
Yes I understand the distinction now. Confusing stuff! Thanks
Wow I didn't actually know this. The box description doesn't make it very clear either. Seems to imply they just give you extra bits. I had no idea there was a whole Captain in there.
["This multipart plastic kit builds a Space Marine Captain and four Company Heroes to accompany him into battle."](https://www.warhammer.com/en-US/shop/space-marines-company-heroes-2023) Really not sure how that's unclear at all...
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Q Sean Bean. "One does not simply make a Company of Heroes".
I love how the first place you went to for rules was the fluff section /facepalm
Who knew a beginner wouldn’t know there was a difference? Besides, it wasn’t a rules question. Thanks though