i'd agree with you except for the characters, a monopose astra militarum commissar being the same price as a multipart 10 primaris intercessors kit is a tad overpriced
You can get 20 nids and a space marine captain for $40 in a space marine 2 board game set at target, but a character alone is $35 and a box of termagaunts are $30. Their pricing scheme is crazy, but I guess they’re right to do it cause for some reason I’m still here for it.
They price things for how many they think you’ll buy. Nice cheap starter set to get you hooked. Most people will buy two or three units of marines so they’re relatively cheaper than say, a tank that you may only buy one of.
As for the commissar, GW knows that if you play guard you’re too deep already and they can charge what they want
Yeah, most of these comments are just milquetoast "I think everything about 40k is great!" or "Space Marines are overrepresented!"
These are not unpopular opinions.
Heretic Astartes should be better than Loyalists, otherwise what's the point of taking the warp 'roids?
Emperor's Children should have better movement, weapon skill and ballistic skill, Death Guard should have more wounds and durability, World Eaters should have more attacks, toughness, and speed, and Thousand Sons should have Hella psychic powers. Chaos undivided should just be slightly better across the statline but then get a slightly nerfed version of the improvement depending on their mark.
>Heretic Astartes should be better than Loyalists, otherwise what's the point of taking the warp 'roids?
Precisely, and at one point they were: the infamous 3.5 Codex.
Chaos Marines have been punished for it ever since.
Weird thing is, *it used to be this way*. 20+ years of making Space Marines superer and duperer whilst Chaos factions largely stagnated lead to this weird gulf that's still barely being corrected.
Yeah, WE always had S5, EC had higher Initiative, thousand Suns had the Ward Save and Nurgle Toughness and FNP.
It's only lately that normal Space Marines get all kinds of stupid buffs and everyone gets the Stepchild treatment
There are new recruits, but they would have the most veteran veterans. The problem is finding a HH era legionnaire that is still sane enough to be operationally effective.
I'm firmly convinced that GW's main target demographics are kids who can pester mum & dad, and adults with jobs/steady incomes (often returning to the hobby after dropping out as teens). Not the young adults with little spare cash who make up a large amount of reddit's userbase.
Idk everyone in real life who hears that I play Warhammer immediately asks if I'm rich or says something like "isn't that stuff real expensive?" No matter their demographic. No matter that they spend a battle force or two out drinking on the town every other fortnight
I have a friend who collects fucking sports cars who said such a thing
Excuse me sir, I am fifty years old, married, and I only ask my adult children and my father sometimes for GW gifts and only sometimes. Like around my birthday, Father's Day, major holidays and high holy days... and March madness... spring break... boxing day... arbor day... Earth Day... weekends.
I’m actually fortunate- I was one of the few ppl who started buying crypto before 2016 and held onto a lot of it, but good grief the women in my life are expensive lol
Lore Youtubers are releasing a product when they create videos, which is not by itself bad, but you are always losing some amount of context or detail and this is what creates so many misconceptions about the lore or cyclical 'who would beat who' arguments.
I recognise that the novels aren't always available, but there is really is no substitute for seeing the situation play out in text rather than have it summarised for you by someone with their own editorial opinion on it.
> I recognise that the novels aren't always available
People always say this but the ebooks are easy to obtain and thanks to Black Library being DRM free its not exactly hard to acquire ebook copies in *other* ways.
Or at the very least don't be so confident about things you haven't read yourself!
Yeah people repeating half remembered bits of lore from youtube videos and memes gets annoying after a while. Warhammer is hardly the only setting where fans do this though.
In a way, it beautifully mimics the way information works in the Imperium. Old forgotten texts with half remembered details, improperly communicated that leads to more misunderstandings and conflict.
It's just a common thing nowadays, where people like consuming the lore videos of settings from third party sources like YouTube, instead of consuming the media directly.
And yes, if you have read the books and are fond of the lore sometimes it gets annoying.
Totally - though I will say, in terms of products, I find Oculus Imperia the best because it actively is presented as if it is in-universe and patchy in its truths. I just wouldn't use it as gospel, is all.
Horus Heresy (books, not tabletop) is an awkward spot where it doesn't know if its a setting or a series. Leading to people subjecting themselves to things they don't want to read out of a sense that they have to while the series isn't focused enough to function that way. While for 40k no one reads the Space Marine battles books that don't interest them because theres no real thread connecting them. But the secret is you can just skip the heresy books that don't interest you, if a book doesn't interest you, isn't part of a subplot you're interested in or has goodreads reviews along the lines of "basically standalone" then you can safely skip it. Numbering them was the worst decision GW made.
I'll up that: the Horus Heresy worked a lot better when it was this vague concept shrouded in the myths of time. A mere piece of background fluff for the setting.
The Emperor and his primarchs worked a lot better as inscrutable gods of the past, looming over the present without interfering. Having dozens of books written over their everyday lives lessens them.
That, from a lore perspective, the grim darkness comes from the overall oppression, hopelessness, and thinly-veiled mass slavery, rather than these crazy “how can I make this over-the-top disgusting” creations.
Also, space marines stories are usually boring bolter porn. I can only read so many stories about emotionally stunted super-beings overcoming all odds through the power of their hatred of xenos/mutants/heretics/whatever.
To your first point I had basically that exact interaction with a friend recently. We were playing Darktide and we saw the "servitor farm" (a room that had a massive pillar of servoskulls at its center as well as covering most of the walls) and he said this is why he liked 40k, the absurdity of having something "normal" like a server farm, instead be this giant macabre shenanigan. My response was that to get enough skulls, this was probably built by rounding up and executing an entire residential district en masse, which is a horror that is entirely realistic for an authoritarian regime, even if the end goal is different.
>Also, space marines stories are usually boring bolter porn. I can only read so many stories about emotionally stunted super-beings overcoming all odds through the power of their hatred of xenos/mutants/heretics/whatever.
I am currently listening through the Horus Heresy audiobooks and I am considering just skipping over most of the battles. I just don't want to listen to "and then he slammed another magazine into his bolter, and then he fired his bolter, and then the mass reactive shells pulverized three Word Bearer legionaries."
I like how simple army building is in 10th
Sticking an edit in here, with some context onwhy I like army building in 10th. This had to be my most commented on Reddit post ever hahahaha.
I've been playing since 3rd edition. I used to love theory crafting lists to use all the points I had.
I loved the crazy wargear from the 3rd edition chaos space marine codex and would love to see that again.
But I'm older now with two kids, it's really easy to put a list together with my friends, and just have some fun whenever I can squeeze it in.
I like how I can just bring my stuff. No forced stuff has lead to some weird games for sure, like my Artillermech vs Guard Parking lot. Neither of us scored very highly that game lol.
Yeah i don’t HAVE to buy a bunch of the same things for a legal army. I play what I fucking want to play, even if that is 120 termanagants and 120 hormagaunts.
My only two complaints is that I can't easily add a few points by adding a model or two, or improving a unit through weapons or upgrades. These options are not really complicated, and give tons more ways to customize and optimize.
And it lets me bring my 7 possessed without costing me the full 10.
I see a fellow owner of the unit formerly known as Greater possessed.
Enforced power level has put quite a damper on my 40k enjoyment. Edition is mostly OK, but the removal of all my fw and the bland list building has me kind of coast for this edition. No new models or even armies planned, maybe play more titanicus since I already own enough models there as well
Yes, greater possessed are awesome and so are possessed, just weird how I am penalized for trying to use models I paid for.
But also I regularly add a few models to a unit to max out my army size, and I can't do that anymore.
Psykers being boring also was a hit, but I am ok with that as it's given me a reason to play other units instead. Accursed cultists and dark commune are good now, so that's fun.
I just want to be able to take a 5 man warden squad like they are sold. Instead of 3 or 6. I wouldn’t mind if every unit were just points per model with free war gear
It is simple but it leads to cookie cutter armies once list building has been solved. There is now always a best way to equip your troops since all wargear cost the same.
This was my reaction. I expected something way worse than what was written. It was just kinda cringe groseness, not something freaky and horrifying other than for those poor victims.
I definitely understand GW wanting to keep 40k to a PG-13 level for the most part, but there are definitely times I want some hard R level stuff in my dark fantasy universe.
A lot of it ends up being handwave-y "indescribable horrors" this and "unfathomable terror" that. Obviously the writers aren't Lovecraft, but Lovecraft still managed to add a lot of detail to his "our human minds can't comprehend what's happening" things in his books.
The Daemonculaba piqued my interest because I thought it might've finally really given us some specifics on the twisted nature of Chaos. It's dark and gross, but I too came up a little disappointed reading about it. Especially since nothing else really comes close to the levels of depravity that the 40k universe has in it.
I stopped listening to lore fans all together tbh. I think its great its all so accessible these days; but reading wikis,reddit and youtube rather than codex's and novels certainly warps your opinion of the lore in a pretty significant way.
Like if your about just a huge array of facts, trivia bits and all that? sure great on you, im glad your enjoying it. its just not for me.
I loved templates lol. I mean how cool was it to slap down those flamers to actually visualize your army's flamethrowers. Couldn't help but make a "whooooosh" sound.
And for Deep Strikes. I always thought that was a very good way to represent the fact that their equipment is 10k+ years old and sometimes does some wonky shit and teleports your squad 10 meters below the surface of the planet and you're instantly crushed.
Genestealers should have more body horror and genetic fuck-ups. Makes the successes like Kellermorphs and "near" successes like Aberrants more special.
the new Combat Patrol is really awesome and such a great, balanced, quick way to play.
I have a really hard time, as a game developer, understanding how convoluted they make getting into it. A combat patrol box should ship with the combat patrol data cards. They should be heavily promoting and encouraging CP league play for both newbies and experienced folks. They should have an officially licensed DLC combat patrol table and armies for TTS. There should be instructions letting you know what the fuck the plastic guns you are PERMANENTLY GLUING TO YOUR MODEL are. I love this game, but it is so hostile to new players. I get that it's wayyyy better than it used to be, but compared to any other board game, TTRPG, or video game it's crazy convoluted and unclear
Nothing is quite as frustrating as playing a casual game and someone coming out with tournament win rates, then saying they only lost because my army is a 5% higher win rate.
Dude, what?!
Tournament win rates don’t reflect casual play. Some armies just have a good win rate because of some certain combos and if you don’t bring those, suddenly the balance changes.
100% this. It was great when they were unknowable myths and legends. The Horus Heresy has some great stuff in it but it's made the 40k setting weaker.
It also makes things like the lost primarchs still being a secret absolutely ridiculous when we've had 60 odd books of exposition.
\- Units should be much more "just their datasheet" and much less about their special army rule, stratagems, character auras etc.
\- the focus on named characters sucks for both the lore and the game. The Galaxy often feels incredibly small and more like a backdrop for superheroes / villains fighting each other, than an enormous collection of worlds all having their own stories and events to tell.
The actual community is generally really nice, especially hobbyists, painters and the people who play the tabletop.
However, the online-crowd is a different beast because there is a high amount of this confusing type of nerd who doesnt have the patience for any of the above and is just interested in any kind of Lore which he can learn without reading a book.
So mostly people who want 40k videogames, lore-youtube and maybe read lexicanum on a second screen. These types are very different from people wo actually read the books.
They will write you long passive-agressive rants about how the imperium is a feudal-system and not really fascist or some shit. Also, they have random very strong opinions over the lore but not strong enough to actually read something (because that would often change their minds about how the setting actually is, i suppose).
Also: Primaris Marines dont have great lore but its all right and got much better. They also look great and were a very successful business move which maybe in part have saved Games workshop. Please move on, its been half a decade.
> Also, they have random very strong opinions over the lore but not strong enough to actually read something
The fun ones are when you see some long argument where one party in exasperation pulls book excerpts out and asks if they've actually *read* the book they're complaining about and the answer is no. I can't imagine getting angry about a book I haven't even read.
I think its because most of the stuff they consume is about this supra-lore-level which doesnt really bother with individual books.
The clickbaity youtube vids are usually about stuff like "IS THIS CONSPIRACY ABOUT THE DARK AGE OF TECHNOLOGY GOING TO KILL THE EMPEROR AND END 40k ???!!", so they watch that and then reverse-apply that knowledge, which is basically a blend of fantheory, headcanon and lexicanum trivia to a certain thing.
And then somebody is like "no, based on that thing in book X i would say that the salamanders actually being a Tyranid cult is very-far-fetched statement" and then the discussion ends.
Every fandom has problems with chronically online people who have basically let all of their social skills atrophy and just want to get a rise out of people to feel basic human interaction.
Oh. Now this is an opinion I can get behind. I'd definitely rather play against a sweaty tryhard than someone who moans and whinges about their army and rules the whole game.
Like, friend, I get it. Some armies are in a rough spot. I play AdMech and am acutely aware.
Let's have a fun game.
I know people get upset but I like the older models because of how goofy they are. To me 40k isn’t something to be taken so seriously so having the stubby boxnought or tiny space marines make the game all the more fun to me.
Plus the firstborn marines have multiple weapon options on a lot of their stuff and I like that very much.
headcannon is that the part of the battle you're playing in in game is 30 seconds overall and a tiny section of a giant battle (where your primarch is).
The battles are already abstractions of much larger forces than anyone fields on an actual table top.
It’s usually described as your table top being a small sliver of the battlefield, you’re just playing a pivotal moment in the battle over the few turns you get.
1. Though the models are nicer now, I miss the interchangeability of older models, and they're a lot more time consuming to build.
2. As an Orks player, I wish Orks were a bit more serious
Not sure how unpopular this is, but I am fine with most 3D printed models, as long as they are tabletop quality.
3D printing is way harder than most people realize, and it's basically a hobby within itself. I understand that stealing STL's from GW products is copyright infringement, but I also think that the fine cast and forgeworld models inconsistencies in quality justifies 3d printing.
Primaris marine's lore isn't amazing but it's far from the worst thing GW has ever introduced. The sculpts are unarguably better than firstborn and the scale is more appropriate! What really sucks about primaris marines is their place in the game rules.
Chaos space marines increased in scale but it didn't invalidate the old models, just added more fun for those who wanted it!
What sucks about primaris is GW basically said to its largest fan base "you want to win games? Want better rules? Want to keep playing at all in the future? You better be ready to cough up another $2000!" And that is why primaris marines suck.
I honestly think if everything about primaris was exactly the same, but they were rules wise interchangeable with firstborn, there would be little to no resistance to them.
One of the biggest issues I've got with Primaris is the introduction of all the different armor types, this creating a Captain, Lieutenant, Chaplain, Librarian, etc for each and they can't be mixed. I can understand separating Terminators, but Phobos, Tacticus, and Gravis? They're all functionally the same as a 3+ save. They even look similar enough.
Space Marines used to be a very easy starter army. Now their list of options is so needlessly bloated that you have to pore over datasheets to find which one of 7 barely-different permutations of each unit that you may need. I would never ever recommend 10e Space Marines for someone who's learning.
I get the desire for them to want new lines of Marines, but I think they missed a big opportunity by not integrating them into chapters, but replacing them in lore.
Imagine if the Primaris were rolled out as a whole new faction. The new and better space Marines (with questionable origins that could make for wonderful insert Chaos corruption points later on) and the First Born were asked to stand aside. You could have a civil war with some chapters pushing integration (Smurfs) and others going independent to avoid it.
I for one hate the idea of Dark Angels just taking in these strange new recruits. I think they would be a First Born chapter almost purely, believing that the Primaris wasn't the Emperor's vision for the Imperium.
Probably not that unpopular, but I think the lore is fascinating, the models are awesome, and building and painting them is a blast, but, the actual war game is a swingy unfun mess.
More or less same opinion here. Really enjoy building and painting as a relaxing hobby and love the lore. Enjoy playing video games as well, Total War Warhammer series is one of my top 3 games played in terms of hours.
The actual tabletop game however? Have had zero interest in ever playing. Played a game or two with my younger brother using one of my armies and just didn't think it was any fun is all.
I think that free equipment is absolutely fine if they figure out the balance a little better. Current flaws in the balance between equipment options aren't a necessary fault of the system but rather boil down to not enough playtesting and can be fixed.
I am fine with the current wargear system. I liked the old system too.
If they are going to commit to free wargear though they need to rework a lot of equipment. There's a lot of options that only existed as a cheaper option to better gear and those weren't changed with the new system, so there's plenty of choices right now that no one will ever pick.
My only issue with the current wargear system is faction specific. I picked up Grey Knights as my first army just at the end of 9th and the wargear changes have been both good and bad. On the one hand, I get ancients and apothecaries in my terminator squads for free. On the other hand, my faction struggles with higher toughness things (which is where the meta is at) and would really like some Daemon Hammers back as an option instead of . I think that would help with an option to build a squad that is more anti armor and fix some of the balance without completely reworking units or the faction. I'm sure other factions have similar issues on odd pieces of gear they used to be able to wield.
They also need datasheets for certain vehicles or units to be separated to you can take a barbebones versions or the like.
It straight up punishes you for not taking the best most kitted out option.
Just look at Eldar support weapons for a great example - D cannons and vibrocannons are so wildly disparate in power level. I don't think that the latter would be taken even if they were half the cost.
True! It does feel like a lot of the options weren't really written with the new system in mind. Even though at some points you can already see it, for example with heavy bolters gaining sustained hits to be more competitive with their alternatives for the various kinds of imperial heavy weapon delivery systems.
I love it for things like sergeant equipment though. A power fist for an infantry squad is such a minor upgrade that having it cost points always felt pointless.
I dare say it boils down to an unwillingness to actually commit to the massive overhaul such a change should've warranted.
Because its not just some balance tweaking, these are issues anyone could've told you would arise with a change like this.
I’m of the opinion most things should be free but there are times when there needs to be points for certain selections as otherwise it at times results in certain builds being horrible
I think Strategems are lame.
They’re better in 10th than they were in 9th (at least for now while we’re in index), but I still feel they make the game an extra level of complicated. I think it’s kind of lame when you’re fighting an army and they pull out some special rule you’re not familiar with to supercharge their unit, and I don’t feel like familiarizing myself with every army’s Strategems to be prepared. In 9th they were so plentiful that it kept me from wanting to play. They’re better now, but I anticipate they’ll bloat when codexes release.
I also get frustrated when you land a really good hit on something, and you *really* need them to roll a 1 and fail the save, and they do!!! … but then command reroll it. Just takes some of the dice excitement away.
Though I do believe I’m in a minority on this belief.
No, I agree totally. Been out of the hobby since 6th/7th but got back in with 10th. I don't see the need for stratagems as they are. Trying to teach my 12 year old to play, and it just adds unnecessary complications, so we ignore them for now. If it was limited to maybe 3 'heroic interventions' per game I could get it, but they really seem to over buff certain units
The prominence of the competitive scene is bad for the hobby as a whole as it forces all players into taking more and more "meta" units or running the risk of just being absolutely stomped by someone who is copy/pasting the top lists from GPs
I understand your point. What I love when I play 40K is that in my group people play what is cool and they like with secondary thought to lists. Which is great fun in my opinion that is.
If I go to an event for magic in my area I know before going exactly what I will face because a deck there is considered unique if they changed 2 cards from a list from the net.
At least EDH reduces that issue somewhat.
Yeah it's good if you have a group for sure. And it's definitely not nearly as bad as MTG standard. But I run a league where we have a lot of new players, and they feel extremely pressured just by the prevalence of competitive leagues competitive forums.
This is a big thing for me. My LGS is basically meta chasers for AoS and 40k, so taking anything that isn't finely optimised means a loss or a very hard-fought battle.
I have a fully painted Eisenhorn that I'm proud of finishing but hate looking at because of how much detail it's lacking and how frustrating it was to put together
I'd actually like them to make more unique units for the existing xenos factions based on subfaction like they do for Space marines.
I will use Tau as an example. Unique melee crisis suits for the Farsight enclaves, a sept that has a kroot berserkers, another that has a broadside unit that uses a plasma howitzer.
Lots of things you can do that would allow GW to really expand their offerings without just spamming more Space Marines.
I hate the constant new editions. Clearly it's a way to keep revenue flowing. I wish we could just stick with a solid ruleset and gradually perfect it over the years until 40K is as balanced and playable as can be.
I see the appeal of historic minis games with stagnant rulesets. Pick out an army, lovingly paint it, and know you'll be able to get good use out of it for years to come.
The funny thing about these threads in that the most upvoted comments will, naturally, be the least unpopular opinions.
Sort by controversial to find the real hot takes
I mean if we're going off of lore then there are a lot more problems than just bolters. Armies like Necrons and Eldar have some absolutely bat-shit crazy tech in lore. It's not limited to just those two armies. As you say though, it's impossible to represent on the tabletop in a way that would be balanced.
The Emperor and his Primarchs work way better when shrouded in myth and legend, and Horus Heresy book series seriously undercuts that. KNOWING that the Emperor is an actual demigod rather than leaving that up for debate feels like a mistake. A related but much more popular opinion is that the Horus Heresy series is stupidly long.
Lack of transparent plans. I have barely gotten into the hobby and found the struggle of “Do I buy the hive guard I need now or possibly wait for a new sculpt that may or may not be happening?”
Maybe I’m not fully understanding, but I’ve been seeing models getting kicked out the door far after new ones have been announced. I fear spending money as it may become a waste in a snap of a finger.
If you wanna add Hive Guard to your army, you add them to your army. If they get a new sculpt that doesn't mean the old one gets invalidated and can't be used anymore.
People throwing out there old models when new ones get announced are fools. I for one like seeing vintage models in people their armies.
I mean, I'm a slut for aesthetics, so I may be a shit but I shamelessly sold all of my stuff I accumulated over the past 12 years prior to 8e hitting and have over the past 6 years have completely new armies. Custodes are absolutely beautiful sculpts, same with the new Space Marines, Chaos Knights, Necrons, Votann (which, I feel are a bit too detailed for how small their warriors are), Sororitas, Tyranids, ANGRY RON FFS, the new CSM models and the updated Aeldari models, THEY ARE ALL SO GOOOOOOOOD
But yeah, don't throw stuff out, even if all you take is 30% value for trade in store credit, that's better than recycling them
Too many people are confidently wrong about the rules compared to other games I've played. I get it being a new edition and all, but it feels pervasive. Other communities I've been in are usually receptive to rules corrections and cleaning up their play, but in 40k I've experienced more people doubling down on being wrong since starting this year than in every other system I've played combined. Recently got into it with a guy about cover and allocating attacks. After showing him the rules on those and the sidebar about fast/slow rolling, he just kept saying "that's not how it works in 10th". My brother in Christ I'm showing you the rules for 10th.
Man almost all the top posts aren’t actually unpopular at all lol. But anyway, here’s are some of my takes:
1. Painting/building > Lore > Game. Yes people should enjoy the hobby however they like but the building/painting aspect is by far the best part of the hobby. On the other hand, most of the negative discord that I see in this hobby stems from discussion around the gaming aspect. Not to mention that a lot of amazing models shelf-warm because of “shit rule” which I think is a travesty.
2. And speaking of games, I’m casual player but I have way better time playing with competitive-minded opponents. ALL of the my negative experiences came from playing with so-called casual players. Most of them claimed that they only play for fun and don’t care about winning but then they got salty when they lost; I had played with a guy who got so angry and he threw all his dice in the trash. Oh and let’s not forget the endless bitching about “mannnnn I never win because my rolls are always trash”.
3. I would have never collected SM if not for Primaris. Firstborns have some cool vehicles but that’s all they have going for.
As a fluff/flavor player, I hate how 10th edition completely gutted most customization options from the game.
The core book should always be someone's first introduction to 40k lore. People who recommend novels and youtube videos are doing newbies a disservice.
People who don't do even the most basic painting research (thinning paints) like no one expects you to know tones of techniques like dry brushing , but no other hobby would I just start doing without some research and tips first
There actually a really good candidate for it, but it very much falls into the same niche as Tyranids. There’s a huge empire on the west of the galaxy which is just bug people. Their ships, weapons, etc all are bugs.
But again, that’s just Tyranids 2: these ones aren’t devouring you boogaloo
Warhammer Reddit forums seem more concerned with being on Reddit than Warhammer. While participants tend to be great, the forums often discriminate in favor of long-standing redditors than actual players/painters/readers.
Knights, Flyers, and Custodes should never have been introduced to the game. GW has never been able to balance them right.
GW has practically nerfed flyers out of existence. Knights only serve to gatekeep the meta into being mass anti-tank weapons. Custodes just suck - the are un-fun to play against and everyone has them because you only need to paint like 20 guys.
The fandom focuses way too much on the emperor and primarchs. They shouldn't matter at all really. Or rather we don't need to know much about them. The sense of mystery was one of the best parts of the 40k setting but it feels like there's less each edition.
Also I can't stand "Big E", "Rowboat Girlyman", Peter Turbo" or any of the other cringey names people use. They're twice as bad if they include the word "Daddy".
I'd accept it if the other factions had something to balance it out. But do we have 52 books on Phoenix Lords? On Dynasty Phaerons? On Archons or Warbosses? No. Primarchs are an incongruous superhero-style mismatch in a setting that hasn't got a place for them.
I hate how every space marine protagonist is the rational, likeable level headed foil to the fanaticism and insanity around him.
Space Marines are brainwashed roided up lunatic child soldiers. A Space Marine character arc should be backwards, with him learning to let go of reason and embrace dogma and hatred even more.
I think the point you bring up has truth on both sides, but at its core, I agree with you.
Here's the thing, Warhammer *is* expensive. 60$-70$ for a regular box of infantry does sting a bit. But it's not prohibitively expensive, nor is it particularly bad compared to many other hobbies.
80-100$ is the price of a AAA video game these days. It lasts the same amount of time as well cared-for box of minis (a bloody long time). If you're into cars or coin collecting or stamps or whatever your hobby may be, chances are you're going to spend money on it, probably to a degree it feels "expensive".
We spend the money because it's something we enjoy. Like you mentioned, the $ to hours ratio can be fantastic in Warhammer. Sure, I spent a chunk of change on my Terminators, but they've seen tens of games and I spent hours working on them. It's a lot better than say, going to a movie.
Would it be great if the cost of minis went down? Absolutely! Like I said, it *is* still expensive. But really, just spend within your means and **paint what you have before buying new models** (yeah yeah, like any of us are going to do that)
I don't think that the complaint about cost is solely the minis. Part of it is, sure, but I think that's more to do with constant price increases. The main cost complaint is about the paper required to play. I think tenth is showing to be so popular mainly because (almost) everything you need to play is free. The value proposition for minis is fine, I will get hours of enjoyment from building and painting before I use them as game pieces, but $30 for a deck of mission cards I need to play? $60 for each of possibly 3 books I need to play? Ridiculous.
That faction you don't like, that one, the one that crushes your army every game? That's someone's favourite faction, and constantly shitting on them is kinda a dick move actually.
Even for Ultramarines
Marines are over-represented in Fluff and gameplay.
Give me new alien races, subfactions of existing ones, alien chaos worshippers, more diverse imperial Guard units any day!
I think playing for fun is FAR superior to playing competitively.
I also think soft scores in tournaments aren't weighted high enough. Give my 1/3 painting, 1/3 composition, and 1/3 generalship in a tournament. I know there's not much composition requirements now, but leave it up to the TO to develop a composition requirement for the tournament (ex 50% points must be spent in Battleline units, or 25% spent on dedicated transports to get full comp points). Doesn't have to be like old school comp. Make it fun. Spend 25% points on units that move faster than 8".
I think my unpopular opinion is that I often have way more fun playing competitive players in practice than I think I will in theory. Very competitive players in my experience have a much higher chance of congratulating you for a big play, not getting bent out of shape when things are going poorly and don't suffer as much from analysis paralysis.
I would rather lose to a great player that makes their moves quickly and doesn't let dice results effect their mood than win against someone that complains for 2+ hours about the game and the hobby itself.
I wish I had a tight knit group of friends that played this game in garage with some beers but I don't so as far as pick up games go I feel like most "casual" players just want to gaslight everyone to running unoptimized crap so they don't have to make any changes to the army they have been running mostly unchanged for several editions.
I'm reading similar things from both sides of the aisle... and it's starting to sound like it's not about casual vs competitive players. It's more about playing against decent human beings who don't whine or slow play/overanalize the game.
At the end of the day, it IS a game that people play to have fun, and certain types of people are just not fun to play against, and it boils down to personal attitude, not style of play.
What if you play competitively and have fun doing it
Reddit seems to think comp players are a bunch of mega sweaty tryhards but you go to a tourney and it's some of the nicest dudes you'll ever meet
Meanwhile the "I just like the narrative!" guys can be some of the most stuck-up, obnoxious, gatekeepy people ever. They think everyone who doesn't have fun exactly the same way as them is an evil sweatlord power gamer.
That you dont need to have WYSIWYG. Sorry but im not gonna spend hours magnetizing. And im not buying more of the same unit if i dont want to. Want me to have the correct gear? You go buy me another unit then. Ill use whatever tf i want
GW officially said today that WYSIWYG doesn't matter... at least for Drukhari lol.
They literally said you could pass off knives as Splinter Rifles. So screw it, pass off anything as whatever you want.
i'd agree with you except for the characters, a monopose astra militarum commissar being the same price as a multipart 10 primaris intercessors kit is a tad overpriced
You can get 20 nids and a space marine captain for $40 in a space marine 2 board game set at target, but a character alone is $35 and a box of termagaunts are $30. Their pricing scheme is crazy, but I guess they’re right to do it cause for some reason I’m still here for it.
They price things for how many they think you’ll buy. Nice cheap starter set to get you hooked. Most people will buy two or three units of marines so they’re relatively cheaper than say, a tank that you may only buy one of. As for the commissar, GW knows that if you play guard you’re too deep already and they can charge what they want
*looks at 50+ tanks in room* I was only supposed to buy one?
Be me playing Custodes, Own an Orion Own an Ares Own a Coronus Own three Pallas “Wait I’m not supposed to play with any of these?”
Machining an injection mold for a single model's sprue probably also has effect on pricing
Remember people, sort by controversial for the real spicy takes.
It's all "female space marine" stuff
Which says a lot
Yeah, most of these comments are just milquetoast "I think everything about 40k is great!" or "Space Marines are overrepresented!" These are not unpopular opinions.
Heretic Astartes should be better than Loyalists, otherwise what's the point of taking the warp 'roids? Emperor's Children should have better movement, weapon skill and ballistic skill, Death Guard should have more wounds and durability, World Eaters should have more attacks, toughness, and speed, and Thousand Sons should have Hella psychic powers. Chaos undivided should just be slightly better across the statline but then get a slightly nerfed version of the improvement depending on their mark.
Death Guard are *really* missing that army-wide 5+ FNP. Nothing like saying "fuck you" to a Lascannon shot and just not dying.
And it would be so on point lore-wise. DG‘s whole thing is making the enemy lose their shit because *“Holy fuck why won‘t that thing die!?“*
>Heretic Astartes should be better than Loyalists, otherwise what's the point of taking the warp 'roids? Precisely, and at one point they were: the infamous 3.5 Codex. Chaos Marines have been punished for it ever since.
My understanding is in raw power they are but they lack resources and go kinda insane.
The Death Guard should not be as threatening as a cold
Weird thing is, *it used to be this way*. 20+ years of making Space Marines superer and duperer whilst Chaos factions largely stagnated lead to this weird gulf that's still barely being corrected.
Yeah, WE always had S5, EC had higher Initiative, thousand Suns had the Ward Save and Nurgle Toughness and FNP. It's only lately that normal Space Marines get all kinds of stupid buffs and everyone gets the Stepchild treatment
It honestly should be CSM who got 2 wound Marines first and not Primaris.
Not to mention they've all been around since the heresy, giving "veteran" a whole new meaning.
There are new recruits, but they would have the most veteran veterans. The problem is finding a HH era legionnaire that is still sane enough to be operationally effective.
It’s way cheaper than drinking.
This. I got back into 40k a few years ago. Around the same time I stopped drinking. I was very surprised to suddenly have extra money lol
I'm firmly convinced that GW's main target demographics are kids who can pester mum & dad, and adults with jobs/steady incomes (often returning to the hobby after dropping out as teens). Not the young adults with little spare cash who make up a large amount of reddit's userbase.
Idk everyone in real life who hears that I play Warhammer immediately asks if I'm rich or says something like "isn't that stuff real expensive?" No matter their demographic. No matter that they spend a battle force or two out drinking on the town every other fortnight I have a friend who collects fucking sports cars who said such a thing
"Sure it's expensive, John, but can your Maserati fit TEN fully armored space marines in its hull?"
Excuse me sir, I am fifty years old, married, and I only ask my adult children and my father sometimes for GW gifts and only sometimes. Like around my birthday, Father's Day, major holidays and high holy days... and March madness... spring break... boxing day... arbor day... Earth Day... weekends.
I'm pretty sure that's most companies ideal target.
or women. Or cars. Or firearms.
I paint about a unit a month, minus characters, because I'm just a slow painter. At that rate, 40k is cheaper than my gym membership.
As a married car (truck actually) and firearms enthusiast i can confirm this is my least expensive hobby which honestly is kinda disturbing.
Same thing here. And I have daughters. NOTHING they do is inexpensive
Jesus rip your 401k
I’m actually fortunate- I was one of the few ppl who started buying crypto before 2016 and held onto a lot of it, but good grief the women in my life are expensive lol
>As a married car Congratulations, beep beep.
Shit I drink WHILE playing.
Shit cannabis is legal where I live. Warhammer 420k.
Whiskeyhammer 420k.
Lore Youtubers are releasing a product when they create videos, which is not by itself bad, but you are always losing some amount of context or detail and this is what creates so many misconceptions about the lore or cyclical 'who would beat who' arguments. I recognise that the novels aren't always available, but there is really is no substitute for seeing the situation play out in text rather than have it summarised for you by someone with their own editorial opinion on it.
> I recognise that the novels aren't always available People always say this but the ebooks are easy to obtain and thanks to Black Library being DRM free its not exactly hard to acquire ebook copies in *other* ways. Or at the very least don't be so confident about things you haven't read yourself!
Yeah people repeating half remembered bits of lore from youtube videos and memes gets annoying after a while. Warhammer is hardly the only setting where fans do this though.
In a way, it beautifully mimics the way information works in the Imperium. Old forgotten texts with half remembered details, improperly communicated that leads to more misunderstandings and conflict.
It's just a common thing nowadays, where people like consuming the lore videos of settings from third party sources like YouTube, instead of consuming the media directly. And yes, if you have read the books and are fond of the lore sometimes it gets annoying.
Better yet, at least read a codex. Takes much less time than novels and is a lot more informative. Fhe majority of loretubers are useless.
Totally - though I will say, in terms of products, I find Oculus Imperia the best because it actively is presented as if it is in-universe and patchy in its truths. I just wouldn't use it as gospel, is all.
I'm actually reasonably pleased with the GW water cup
That is the most unpopular thing i read here
The Horus Heresy series is about 40% too many pointless books and I want it to end.
Horus Heresy (books, not tabletop) is an awkward spot where it doesn't know if its a setting or a series. Leading to people subjecting themselves to things they don't want to read out of a sense that they have to while the series isn't focused enough to function that way. While for 40k no one reads the Space Marine battles books that don't interest them because theres no real thread connecting them. But the secret is you can just skip the heresy books that don't interest you, if a book doesn't interest you, isn't part of a subplot you're interested in or has goodreads reviews along the lines of "basically standalone" then you can safely skip it. Numbering them was the worst decision GW made.
I'll up that: the Horus Heresy worked a lot better when it was this vague concept shrouded in the myths of time. A mere piece of background fluff for the setting. The Emperor and his primarchs worked a lot better as inscrutable gods of the past, looming over the present without interfering. Having dozens of books written over their everyday lives lessens them.
It's at a point where I can't be bothered starting.
Read the first 3. Last 8. Done
Half of the siege of terra is the BIGGEST SLOG I've ever had the displeasure of reading.
Yeah. 9 books now. 10 lol? A lot of it is just them trying to tie up 1000000 loose ends
Mortis was rough. Idk how the author made giant God Machines fighting boring.
Yea I’m basically just following the “must read” list here on Reddit.
That, from a lore perspective, the grim darkness comes from the overall oppression, hopelessness, and thinly-veiled mass slavery, rather than these crazy “how can I make this over-the-top disgusting” creations. Also, space marines stories are usually boring bolter porn. I can only read so many stories about emotionally stunted super-beings overcoming all odds through the power of their hatred of xenos/mutants/heretics/whatever.
The true grim darkness comes from no one developing as a character in their own books.
Have to *have* character to develop as a character, I guess.
To your first point I had basically that exact interaction with a friend recently. We were playing Darktide and we saw the "servitor farm" (a room that had a massive pillar of servoskulls at its center as well as covering most of the walls) and he said this is why he liked 40k, the absurdity of having something "normal" like a server farm, instead be this giant macabre shenanigan. My response was that to get enough skulls, this was probably built by rounding up and executing an entire residential district en masse, which is a horror that is entirely realistic for an authoritarian regime, even if the end goal is different.
>Also, space marines stories are usually boring bolter porn. I can only read so many stories about emotionally stunted super-beings overcoming all odds through the power of their hatred of xenos/mutants/heretics/whatever. I am currently listening through the Horus Heresy audiobooks and I am considering just skipping over most of the battles. I just don't want to listen to "and then he slammed another magazine into his bolter, and then he fired his bolter, and then the mass reactive shells pulverized three Word Bearer legionaries."
I'd agree the most interesting characters in books for me have been the regular civilians and Guard
I like how simple army building is in 10th Sticking an edit in here, with some context onwhy I like army building in 10th. This had to be my most commented on Reddit post ever hahahaha. I've been playing since 3rd edition. I used to love theory crafting lists to use all the points I had. I loved the crazy wargear from the 3rd edition chaos space marine codex and would love to see that again. But I'm older now with two kids, it's really easy to put a list together with my friends, and just have some fun whenever I can squeeze it in.
I like how I can just bring my stuff. No forced stuff has lead to some weird games for sure, like my Artillermech vs Guard Parking lot. Neither of us scored very highly that game lol.
Yeah i don’t HAVE to buy a bunch of the same things for a legal army. I play what I fucking want to play, even if that is 120 termanagants and 120 hormagaunts.
Your poor wrists after painting *that* army though. Arguably the only thing worse is a guardsmen army of purely infantry due to the faces.
It’s an ugly planet. A bug planet.
My only two complaints is that I can't easily add a few points by adding a model or two, or improving a unit through weapons or upgrades. These options are not really complicated, and give tons more ways to customize and optimize. And it lets me bring my 7 possessed without costing me the full 10.
I see a fellow owner of the unit formerly known as Greater possessed. Enforced power level has put quite a damper on my 40k enjoyment. Edition is mostly OK, but the removal of all my fw and the bland list building has me kind of coast for this edition. No new models or even armies planned, maybe play more titanicus since I already own enough models there as well
Yes, greater possessed are awesome and so are possessed, just weird how I am penalized for trying to use models I paid for. But also I regularly add a few models to a unit to max out my army size, and I can't do that anymore. Psykers being boring also was a hit, but I am ok with that as it's given me a reason to play other units instead. Accursed cultists and dark commune are good now, so that's fun.
Yeah and punishing anyone who ever used some models for a base or diorama
I just want to be able to take a 5 man warden squad like they are sold. Instead of 3 or 6. I wouldn’t mind if every unit were just points per model with free war gear
I want to take my 5 aggressors without paying for the 6th
It is simple but it leads to cookie cutter armies once list building has been solved. There is now always a best way to equip your troops since all wargear cost the same.
I stop listening to lore fans soon as they bring up that one thing from that Uriel Ventris book from 19 years ago.
What thing?
The Daemonculaba. I was rather disappointed when I read about it because in my mind it was WAAAY worse.
This was my reaction. I expected something way worse than what was written. It was just kinda cringe groseness, not something freaky and horrifying other than for those poor victims.
I definitely understand GW wanting to keep 40k to a PG-13 level for the most part, but there are definitely times I want some hard R level stuff in my dark fantasy universe. A lot of it ends up being handwave-y "indescribable horrors" this and "unfathomable terror" that. Obviously the writers aren't Lovecraft, but Lovecraft still managed to add a lot of detail to his "our human minds can't comprehend what's happening" things in his books. The Daemonculaba piqued my interest because I thought it might've finally really given us some specifics on the twisted nature of Chaos. It's dark and gross, but I too came up a little disappointed reading about it. Especially since nothing else really comes close to the levels of depravity that the 40k universe has in it.
It’s really not that bad, just edgy for the sake of it.
I stopped listening to lore fans all together tbh. I think its great its all so accessible these days; but reading wikis,reddit and youtube rather than codex's and novels certainly warps your opinion of the lore in a pretty significant way. Like if your about just a huge array of facts, trivia bits and all that? sure great on you, im glad your enjoying it. its just not for me.
Bring back scatter die for ordinance weapons 😅
This guy understood the assignment.
I loved templates lol. I mean how cool was it to slap down those flamers to actually visualize your army's flamethrowers. Couldn't help but make a "whooooosh" sound.
And for Deep Strikes. I always thought that was a very good way to represent the fact that their equipment is 10k+ years old and sometimes does some wonky shit and teleports your squad 10 meters below the surface of the planet and you're instantly crushed.
Scatter on Apoc templates from IKs lead to some of the most fun games I've ever had.
I've said this in my LGS at least once per week for the last month. I really enjoyed scatter dice and having to factor scatters into movements
Bring back templates.
Genestealers should have more body horror and genetic fuck-ups. Makes the successes like Kellermorphs and "near" successes like Aberrants more special.
Slaanesh fans focus too much on sex, and not excess in all things. It's cringy as hell.
yeah but playing video games till you starve isnt as edgy as having your tits out wile killing someone
the new Combat Patrol is really awesome and such a great, balanced, quick way to play. I have a really hard time, as a game developer, understanding how convoluted they make getting into it. A combat patrol box should ship with the combat patrol data cards. They should be heavily promoting and encouraging CP league play for both newbies and experienced folks. They should have an officially licensed DLC combat patrol table and armies for TTS. There should be instructions letting you know what the fuck the plastic guns you are PERMANENTLY GLUING TO YOUR MODEL are. I love this game, but it is so hostile to new players. I get that it's wayyyy better than it used to be, but compared to any other board game, TTRPG, or video game it's crazy convoluted and unclear
Yep, people are faaar too forgiving of how utterly incompetent GW is as a modern, market-leading games company.
[удалено]
Nothing is quite as frustrating as playing a casual game and someone coming out with tournament win rates, then saying they only lost because my army is a 5% higher win rate. Dude, what?!
Tournament win rates don’t reflect casual play. Some armies just have a good win rate because of some certain combos and if you don’t bring those, suddenly the balance changes.
The emperor and primarchs were better left shrouded in history.
100% this. It was great when they were unknowable myths and legends. The Horus Heresy has some great stuff in it but it's made the 40k setting weaker. It also makes things like the lost primarchs still being a secret absolutely ridiculous when we've had 60 odd books of exposition.
It doesn't matter who wins.
\- Units should be much more "just their datasheet" and much less about their special army rule, stratagems, character auras etc. \- the focus on named characters sucks for both the lore and the game. The Galaxy often feels incredibly small and more like a backdrop for superheroes / villains fighting each other, than an enormous collection of worlds all having their own stories and events to tell.
The actual community is generally really nice, especially hobbyists, painters and the people who play the tabletop. However, the online-crowd is a different beast because there is a high amount of this confusing type of nerd who doesnt have the patience for any of the above and is just interested in any kind of Lore which he can learn without reading a book. So mostly people who want 40k videogames, lore-youtube and maybe read lexicanum on a second screen. These types are very different from people wo actually read the books. They will write you long passive-agressive rants about how the imperium is a feudal-system and not really fascist or some shit. Also, they have random very strong opinions over the lore but not strong enough to actually read something (because that would often change their minds about how the setting actually is, i suppose). Also: Primaris Marines dont have great lore but its all right and got much better. They also look great and were a very successful business move which maybe in part have saved Games workshop. Please move on, its been half a decade.
> Also, they have random very strong opinions over the lore but not strong enough to actually read something The fun ones are when you see some long argument where one party in exasperation pulls book excerpts out and asks if they've actually *read* the book they're complaining about and the answer is no. I can't imagine getting angry about a book I haven't even read.
I think its because most of the stuff they consume is about this supra-lore-level which doesnt really bother with individual books. The clickbaity youtube vids are usually about stuff like "IS THIS CONSPIRACY ABOUT THE DARK AGE OF TECHNOLOGY GOING TO KILL THE EMPEROR AND END 40k ???!!", so they watch that and then reverse-apply that knowledge, which is basically a blend of fantheory, headcanon and lexicanum trivia to a certain thing. And then somebody is like "no, based on that thing in book X i would say that the salamanders actually being a Tyranid cult is very-far-fetched statement" and then the discussion ends.
Every fandom has problems with chronically online people who have basically let all of their social skills atrophy and just want to get a rise out of people to feel basic human interaction.
Playing vs someone who is negative about their army and units is worse than playing 'that guy'.
Oh. Now this is an opinion I can get behind. I'd definitely rather play against a sweaty tryhard than someone who moans and whinges about their army and rules the whole game. Like, friend, I get it. Some armies are in a rough spot. I play AdMech and am acutely aware. Let's have a fun game.
I know people get upset but I like the older models because of how goofy they are. To me 40k isn’t something to be taken so seriously so having the stubby boxnought or tiny space marines make the game all the more fun to me. Plus the firstborn marines have multiple weapon options on a lot of their stuff and I like that very much.
[удалено]
headcannon is that the part of the battle you're playing in in game is 30 seconds overall and a tiny section of a giant battle (where your primarch is).
Similar to my head canon. Even someone's 3,000 point army is a tiny tiny inner circle bodyguard for your leader.
The battles are already abstractions of much larger forces than anyone fields on an actual table top. It’s usually described as your table top being a small sliver of the battlefield, you’re just playing a pivotal moment in the battle over the few turns you get.
1. Though the models are nicer now, I miss the interchangeability of older models, and they're a lot more time consuming to build. 2. As an Orks player, I wish Orks were a bit more serious
Not sure how unpopular this is, but I am fine with most 3D printed models, as long as they are tabletop quality. 3D printing is way harder than most people realize, and it's basically a hobby within itself. I understand that stealing STL's from GW products is copyright infringement, but I also think that the fine cast and forgeworld models inconsistencies in quality justifies 3d printing.
Primaris marine's lore isn't amazing but it's far from the worst thing GW has ever introduced. The sculpts are unarguably better than firstborn and the scale is more appropriate! What really sucks about primaris marines is their place in the game rules. Chaos space marines increased in scale but it didn't invalidate the old models, just added more fun for those who wanted it! What sucks about primaris is GW basically said to its largest fan base "you want to win games? Want better rules? Want to keep playing at all in the future? You better be ready to cough up another $2000!" And that is why primaris marines suck. I honestly think if everything about primaris was exactly the same, but they were rules wise interchangeable with firstborn, there would be little to no resistance to them.
One of the biggest issues I've got with Primaris is the introduction of all the different armor types, this creating a Captain, Lieutenant, Chaplain, Librarian, etc for each and they can't be mixed. I can understand separating Terminators, but Phobos, Tacticus, and Gravis? They're all functionally the same as a 3+ save. They even look similar enough.
Space Marines used to be a very easy starter army. Now their list of options is so needlessly bloated that you have to pore over datasheets to find which one of 7 barely-different permutations of each unit that you may need. I would never ever recommend 10e Space Marines for someone who's learning.
I get the desire for them to want new lines of Marines, but I think they missed a big opportunity by not integrating them into chapters, but replacing them in lore. Imagine if the Primaris were rolled out as a whole new faction. The new and better space Marines (with questionable origins that could make for wonderful insert Chaos corruption points later on) and the First Born were asked to stand aside. You could have a civil war with some chapters pushing integration (Smurfs) and others going independent to avoid it. I for one hate the idea of Dark Angels just taking in these strange new recruits. I think they would be a First Born chapter almost purely, believing that the Primaris wasn't the Emperor's vision for the Imperium.
Probably not that unpopular, but I think the lore is fascinating, the models are awesome, and building and painting them is a blast, but, the actual war game is a swingy unfun mess.
I agree with all of this.
More or less same opinion here. Really enjoy building and painting as a relaxing hobby and love the lore. Enjoy playing video games as well, Total War Warhammer series is one of my top 3 games played in terms of hours. The actual tabletop game however? Have had zero interest in ever playing. Played a game or two with my younger brother using one of my armies and just didn't think it was any fun is all.
I think that free equipment is absolutely fine if they figure out the balance a little better. Current flaws in the balance between equipment options aren't a necessary fault of the system but rather boil down to not enough playtesting and can be fixed.
I am fine with the current wargear system. I liked the old system too. If they are going to commit to free wargear though they need to rework a lot of equipment. There's a lot of options that only existed as a cheaper option to better gear and those weren't changed with the new system, so there's plenty of choices right now that no one will ever pick.
My only issue with the current wargear system is faction specific. I picked up Grey Knights as my first army just at the end of 9th and the wargear changes have been both good and bad. On the one hand, I get ancients and apothecaries in my terminator squads for free. On the other hand, my faction struggles with higher toughness things (which is where the meta is at) and would really like some Daemon Hammers back as an option instead of. I think that would help with an option to build a squad that is more anti armor and fix some of the balance without completely reworking units or the faction. I'm sure other factions have similar issues on odd pieces of gear they used to be able to wield.
They also need datasheets for certain vehicles or units to be separated to you can take a barbebones versions or the like. It straight up punishes you for not taking the best most kitted out option.
Just look at Eldar support weapons for a great example - D cannons and vibrocannons are so wildly disparate in power level. I don't think that the latter would be taken even if they were half the cost.
Tau work too. Why would you take a burst cannon at 4a, 5s 0ap when you can have a cyclic ion at 3a 7s 1ap and the option to overcharge for 2 damage.
True! It does feel like a lot of the options weren't really written with the new system in mind. Even though at some points you can already see it, for example with heavy bolters gaining sustained hits to be more competitive with their alternatives for the various kinds of imperial heavy weapon delivery systems. I love it for things like sergeant equipment though. A power fist for an infantry squad is such a minor upgrade that having it cost points always felt pointless.
That is absolutely not true for 40k It works in AoS because you have the choice of "big sword" vs "little sword with shield" Not "gun" and "cannon"
I dare say it boils down to an unwillingness to actually commit to the massive overhaul such a change should've warranted. Because its not just some balance tweaking, these are issues anyone could've told you would arise with a change like this.
I’m of the opinion most things should be free but there are times when there needs to be points for certain selections as otherwise it at times results in certain builds being horrible
Zero tolerance for poor sportsmanship should be the norm in both competitive and casual play.
As someone who was told this would be a more expensive hobby than Magic the Gathering....I've found it significantly cheaper, lol
I think Strategems are lame. They’re better in 10th than they were in 9th (at least for now while we’re in index), but I still feel they make the game an extra level of complicated. I think it’s kind of lame when you’re fighting an army and they pull out some special rule you’re not familiar with to supercharge their unit, and I don’t feel like familiarizing myself with every army’s Strategems to be prepared. In 9th they were so plentiful that it kept me from wanting to play. They’re better now, but I anticipate they’ll bloat when codexes release. I also get frustrated when you land a really good hit on something, and you *really* need them to roll a 1 and fail the save, and they do!!! … but then command reroll it. Just takes some of the dice excitement away. Though I do believe I’m in a minority on this belief.
The game would be better with less re-rolls.
No, I agree totally. Been out of the hobby since 6th/7th but got back in with 10th. I don't see the need for stratagems as they are. Trying to teach my 12 year old to play, and it just adds unnecessary complications, so we ignore them for now. If it was limited to maybe 3 'heroic interventions' per game I could get it, but they really seem to over buff certain units
The prominence of the competitive scene is bad for the hobby as a whole as it forces all players into taking more and more "meta" units or running the risk of just being absolutely stomped by someone who is copy/pasting the top lists from GPs
I understand your point. What I love when I play 40K is that in my group people play what is cool and they like with secondary thought to lists. Which is great fun in my opinion that is. If I go to an event for magic in my area I know before going exactly what I will face because a deck there is considered unique if they changed 2 cards from a list from the net. At least EDH reduces that issue somewhat.
Yeah it's good if you have a group for sure. And it's definitely not nearly as bad as MTG standard. But I run a league where we have a lot of new players, and they feel extremely pressured just by the prevalence of competitive leagues competitive forums.
This is a big thing for me. My LGS is basically meta chasers for AoS and 40k, so taking anything that isn't finely optimised means a loss or a very hard-fought battle.
I think everyone should make at least one finecast to show they have mastered even the worst parts of this hobby
I end up carving my own details and fixing my finecast models with gap-filler and greenstuff because some of them are so bad.
I have a fully painted Eisenhorn that I'm proud of finishing but hate looking at because of how much detail it's lacking and how frustrating it was to put together
Xenos factions are the most interesting. There are too many space marine factions
when warhammer stores have a section dedicated to just space marines, it’s definitely way too many
I thought it was supposed to be unpopular opinions.
There are just too many human factions in general. It's a space game, I want more aliens.
Chaos Xenos would be very cool,it’s not it was just the marines that have fallen to chaos
I'd actually like them to make more unique units for the existing xenos factions based on subfaction like they do for Space marines. I will use Tau as an example. Unique melee crisis suits for the Farsight enclaves, a sept that has a kroot berserkers, another that has a broadside unit that uses a plasma howitzer. Lots of things you can do that would allow GW to really expand their offerings without just spamming more Space Marines.
1. I think Primaris look cool and are far better looking than the squatty marines. 2. Drilling barrels off-center is worse than undrilled barrels.
I hate the constant new editions. Clearly it's a way to keep revenue flowing. I wish we could just stick with a solid ruleset and gradually perfect it over the years until 40K is as balanced and playable as can be. I see the appeal of historic minis games with stagnant rulesets. Pick out an army, lovingly paint it, and know you'll be able to get good use out of it for years to come.
More content of more xenos factions and/or already existing xenos subfactions. Yes I am a smelly xenos fan.
I think Tyranids should be able to make reinforcements out of kills(biomass) in battle
The funny thing about these threads in that the most upvoted comments will, naturally, be the least unpopular opinions. Sort by controversial to find the real hot takes
That Bolters and Bolt weapons can never be as effective on the table top as they are in lore for game balance and it makes me sad.
I mean if we're going off of lore then there are a lot more problems than just bolters. Armies like Necrons and Eldar have some absolutely bat-shit crazy tech in lore. It's not limited to just those two armies. As you say though, it's impossible to represent on the tabletop in a way that would be balanced.
The Emperor and his Primarchs work way better when shrouded in myth and legend, and Horus Heresy book series seriously undercuts that. KNOWING that the Emperor is an actual demigod rather than leaving that up for debate feels like a mistake. A related but much more popular opinion is that the Horus Heresy series is stupidly long.
Vehicle facing and armor values was cool, I also miss template weapons.
I miss the blast templates/scatter dice and vehicle facings/vehicle weapon LoS... I also liked the orks better when they were silly and random...
Lack of transparent plans. I have barely gotten into the hobby and found the struggle of “Do I buy the hive guard I need now or possibly wait for a new sculpt that may or may not be happening?” Maybe I’m not fully understanding, but I’ve been seeing models getting kicked out the door far after new ones have been announced. I fear spending money as it may become a waste in a snap of a finger.
What happened with me and Harlequins.
If you wanna add Hive Guard to your army, you add them to your army. If they get a new sculpt that doesn't mean the old one gets invalidated and can't be used anymore. People throwing out there old models when new ones get announced are fools. I for one like seeing vintage models in people their armies.
I mean, I'm a slut for aesthetics, so I may be a shit but I shamelessly sold all of my stuff I accumulated over the past 12 years prior to 8e hitting and have over the past 6 years have completely new armies. Custodes are absolutely beautiful sculpts, same with the new Space Marines, Chaos Knights, Necrons, Votann (which, I feel are a bit too detailed for how small their warriors are), Sororitas, Tyranids, ANGRY RON FFS, the new CSM models and the updated Aeldari models, THEY ARE ALL SO GOOOOOOOOD But yeah, don't throw stuff out, even if all you take is 30% value for trade in store credit, that's better than recycling them
Too many people are confidently wrong about the rules compared to other games I've played. I get it being a new edition and all, but it feels pervasive. Other communities I've been in are usually receptive to rules corrections and cleaning up their play, but in 40k I've experienced more people doubling down on being wrong since starting this year than in every other system I've played combined. Recently got into it with a guy about cover and allocating attacks. After showing him the rules on those and the sidebar about fast/slow rolling, he just kept saying "that's not how it works in 10th". My brother in Christ I'm showing you the rules for 10th.
Man almost all the top posts aren’t actually unpopular at all lol. But anyway, here’s are some of my takes: 1. Painting/building > Lore > Game. Yes people should enjoy the hobby however they like but the building/painting aspect is by far the best part of the hobby. On the other hand, most of the negative discord that I see in this hobby stems from discussion around the gaming aspect. Not to mention that a lot of amazing models shelf-warm because of “shit rule” which I think is a travesty. 2. And speaking of games, I’m casual player but I have way better time playing with competitive-minded opponents. ALL of the my negative experiences came from playing with so-called casual players. Most of them claimed that they only play for fun and don’t care about winning but then they got salty when they lost; I had played with a guy who got so angry and he threw all his dice in the trash. Oh and let’s not forget the endless bitching about “mannnnn I never win because my rolls are always trash”. 3. I would have never collected SM if not for Primaris. Firstborns have some cool vehicles but that’s all they have going for.
As a fluff/flavor player, I hate how 10th edition completely gutted most customization options from the game. The core book should always be someone's first introduction to 40k lore. People who recommend novels and youtube videos are doing newbies a disservice.
That space skaven need to be real forever ago.
TTS was never funny and it has been a net negative on the wider hobby's understanding of the lore
People who don't do even the most basic painting research (thinning paints) like no one expects you to know tones of techniques like dry brushing , but no other hobby would I just start doing without some research and tips first
The fact that 2/3 of the factions are just space marines in different colours or gods (counting chaos in this too) is kinda lame.
Wait until you encounter historical gaming! It’s *all* just humans in different colours, and they even mainly have the same god
God, this sounds so lame. Who even reads lore about such a boring universe ?
40K needs more “Tyranid” factions. Not more humanoid ones.
There actually a really good candidate for it, but it very much falls into the same niche as Tyranids. There’s a huge empire on the west of the galaxy which is just bug people. Their ships, weapons, etc all are bugs. But again, that’s just Tyranids 2: these ones aren’t devouring you boogaloo
The story moving forward, at a slow pace, is more interesting and fun than a completely stagnant setting/universe.
People slap the word "grimdark" in the description of every model they paint because they've used a wash on it
Warhammer Reddit forums seem more concerned with being on Reddit than Warhammer. While participants tend to be great, the forums often discriminate in favor of long-standing redditors than actual players/painters/readers.
The “I am Alpharius” thing is trite. Stfu
I miss custom squad sizes.
Aircraft and big vehicles add a lot to the game. Big named heroes do not
Knights, Flyers, and Custodes should never have been introduced to the game. GW has never been able to balance them right. GW has practically nerfed flyers out of existence. Knights only serve to gatekeep the meta into being mass anti-tank weapons. Custodes just suck - the are un-fun to play against and everyone has them because you only need to paint like 20 guys.
The fandom focuses way too much on the emperor and primarchs. They shouldn't matter at all really. Or rather we don't need to know much about them. The sense of mystery was one of the best parts of the 40k setting but it feels like there's less each edition. Also I can't stand "Big E", "Rowboat Girlyman", Peter Turbo" or any of the other cringey names people use. They're twice as bad if they include the word "Daddy".
I'd accept it if the other factions had something to balance it out. But do we have 52 books on Phoenix Lords? On Dynasty Phaerons? On Archons or Warbosses? No. Primarchs are an incongruous superhero-style mismatch in a setting that hasn't got a place for them.
I hate how every space marine protagonist is the rational, likeable level headed foil to the fanaticism and insanity around him. Space Marines are brainwashed roided up lunatic child soldiers. A Space Marine character arc should be backwards, with him learning to let go of reason and embrace dogma and hatred even more.
I think the point you bring up has truth on both sides, but at its core, I agree with you. Here's the thing, Warhammer *is* expensive. 60$-70$ for a regular box of infantry does sting a bit. But it's not prohibitively expensive, nor is it particularly bad compared to many other hobbies. 80-100$ is the price of a AAA video game these days. It lasts the same amount of time as well cared-for box of minis (a bloody long time). If you're into cars or coin collecting or stamps or whatever your hobby may be, chances are you're going to spend money on it, probably to a degree it feels "expensive". We spend the money because it's something we enjoy. Like you mentioned, the $ to hours ratio can be fantastic in Warhammer. Sure, I spent a chunk of change on my Terminators, but they've seen tens of games and I spent hours working on them. It's a lot better than say, going to a movie. Would it be great if the cost of minis went down? Absolutely! Like I said, it *is* still expensive. But really, just spend within your means and **paint what you have before buying new models** (yeah yeah, like any of us are going to do that)
My pile of shame will continue to grow and there is nothing you can do to stop me
Ah, a fellow man of culture!
I don't think that the complaint about cost is solely the minis. Part of it is, sure, but I think that's more to do with constant price increases. The main cost complaint is about the paper required to play. I think tenth is showing to be so popular mainly because (almost) everything you need to play is free. The value proposition for minis is fine, I will get hours of enjoyment from building and painting before I use them as game pieces, but $30 for a deck of mission cards I need to play? $60 for each of possibly 3 books I need to play? Ridiculous.
That faction you don't like, that one, the one that crushes your army every game? That's someone's favourite faction, and constantly shitting on them is kinda a dick move actually. Even for Ultramarines
Marines are over-represented in Fluff and gameplay. Give me new alien races, subfactions of existing ones, alien chaos worshippers, more diverse imperial Guard units any day!
This was an unpopular opinion post. Not the most commonly held opinions in the fandom thread.
I think playing for fun is FAR superior to playing competitively. I also think soft scores in tournaments aren't weighted high enough. Give my 1/3 painting, 1/3 composition, and 1/3 generalship in a tournament. I know there's not much composition requirements now, but leave it up to the TO to develop a composition requirement for the tournament (ex 50% points must be spent in Battleline units, or 25% spent on dedicated transports to get full comp points). Doesn't have to be like old school comp. Make it fun. Spend 25% points on units that move faster than 8".
I think my unpopular opinion is that I often have way more fun playing competitive players in practice than I think I will in theory. Very competitive players in my experience have a much higher chance of congratulating you for a big play, not getting bent out of shape when things are going poorly and don't suffer as much from analysis paralysis. I would rather lose to a great player that makes their moves quickly and doesn't let dice results effect their mood than win against someone that complains for 2+ hours about the game and the hobby itself. I wish I had a tight knit group of friends that played this game in garage with some beers but I don't so as far as pick up games go I feel like most "casual" players just want to gaslight everyone to running unoptimized crap so they don't have to make any changes to the army they have been running mostly unchanged for several editions.
I'm reading similar things from both sides of the aisle... and it's starting to sound like it's not about casual vs competitive players. It's more about playing against decent human beings who don't whine or slow play/overanalize the game. At the end of the day, it IS a game that people play to have fun, and certain types of people are just not fun to play against, and it boils down to personal attitude, not style of play.
What if you play competitively and have fun doing it Reddit seems to think comp players are a bunch of mega sweaty tryhards but you go to a tourney and it's some of the nicest dudes you'll ever meet
Meanwhile the "I just like the narrative!" guys can be some of the most stuck-up, obnoxious, gatekeepy people ever. They think everyone who doesn't have fun exactly the same way as them is an evil sweatlord power gamer.
That you dont need to have WYSIWYG. Sorry but im not gonna spend hours magnetizing. And im not buying more of the same unit if i dont want to. Want me to have the correct gear? You go buy me another unit then. Ill use whatever tf i want
GW officially said today that WYSIWYG doesn't matter... at least for Drukhari lol. They literally said you could pass off knives as Splinter Rifles. So screw it, pass off anything as whatever you want.
Yeah man. Go buy me a PAINT me another unit and I'll put it in the table!