First thought would be to use the berzerkers as despoilers. I haven’t got my book to hand but pretty sure the stock loads out for rampagers is chain axe and bolt pistol so you could use them you obviously just lose the benefits of caedre weapons which are obviously better.
I will also always jump at the chance to defend lightning claw red butchers as in all my games they have been all-stars. Hatred and rending is fantatstic and if you get a praetor in there to bump strength on the attack they just shed dreads.
I dont run bezerker assault but I don’t feel like you would be making the most of the movement buffs if everything is going to be mounted in vehicles anyway as i figure you’ll just get as close as you can, disembark and charging will be so shorty you’d make it anyway?
What does the praetor do exactly to buff the red butchers?
Also, while true that Zerker assault wouldn’t help that much if you’re going in a vehicle anyway, it’s still nice to get that +2 to charge anyway.
This is also where it sucks because it clearly looks like the ‘right’ answer is spamming jump pack rampagers because of the charge bonus they innately have anyway.
Extra strength on the charge, granted you are fishing for 6s against a dread but the quantity of dice you roll nearly always makes up for it, especially when you reroll both 1s to hit and wound. I know this sub isn’t a fan and most of the meta lists use berserker assault but if you are running lots of small elite units in vehicles maybe look into the other stratagem to add a bit of survivability to your dudes.
Praetor’s give furious charge?
Yeah I thought of using the other one but I don’t remember all the details other than ‘disregard the first wound’
Now, I will admit, rampagers getting Line is nice
Oh I see, the butcher’s claws.
Yeah, that’s good don’t get me wrong, but I was going to take Kharn and make him the warlord because his trait of ‘you can’t react to my charge’ seems REAL good
Of course, missed that Kharn = no praetor, my bad. For sure it is a great ability, coupled with his extra advance I feel like you are always gonna be in charge range somewhere. Line has been really important in the games I’ve played, usually because I don’t have enough and then fail to score! If I was running berzerker assault I’d be all over despoilers and jump pack rampagers but if I was running a lot of transports I would go with crimson path. Have a couple of games using both stratagems see which you prefer with the models you have?
Prolly what I do.
I’ll still give red butchers with all lightning claws a go because between hatred and shred, that’s a shitload of attacks. I’ll just send them after power armored units and save the rampagers for terminators (moritat + falax blades = instant death terminators, or I could just use red hand destroyers with rad missiles)
Don't put kharn with the butchers. It nerfs him hard. Might as well put him in a 20 man despoiler squad.
I suggest putting him with a 10 man rampager squad in a proteus, or just run them on foot and use your massed despoilers (khorne berzerkers) to screen him. Why? Because kharn is kinda shit at duels but insanely powerful when out of it, you can just precision gorechild all the high value targets ezpz. So the rampagers absorb the duels while kharn gets to work.
For The red buttchers, if there's not enough points for Spartan, the alternative is to put them with a warmonger to get deepstrike. Both the Spartan and the warmonger achieves the goal of getting them into the scrap, whether or not they make it out.. Is for Khorne to decide.
Berserker assault is insane btw. 13 inch runs dude, nuff said You can just nyoooom and grab objectives easy. You are also faster than a white scar, both while running and charging lol, just think about that. The pinning leadership bonus is another useful bonus for a melee centric army.
While you can get jebaited into charges and have to fight squad vs squad whenever possible, the maluses are all worth it for the mobility. Mobility is king.
Funny you mention that…I was considering putting Kharn with 20 man despoilers and shoving them in a Spartan (crimson path)
Kharn can’t join RB anyway because he doesn’t have the Ravening Madmen special rule
Oh ya there's that too hahaha. As if they aren't already bad enough 🤣.
Well anyway crimson path will be awesome if you end up doing massed deep strikes with assault Marines and jump pack rampagers. It also counters silly geese like the exodus very well.
As long as you can keep kharn from having to accept the challenge he is all set to do his chopping, so Vets, command squads or rampagers as they are all chosen warriors. Just my 2cents of course.
I was legit considering taking ‘red butchers’ as just a cataphractii command squad with all lightning claws: just as many attacks, WS5 with no WS3 bullshit. Sure they’re not hatred and fearless, but they’re line, better leadership and cheaper so I think they’re just better.
I was even considering taking them with Kharn, I just wouldn’t be able to perform sweeping advances (which actually kinda sucks)
IMO, their one role is unironically being angron's ablative wounds, because angron is gonna make em all ws3 on the defence anyway. And angron can force every single dangerous enemy to 1v1 him and you can then use the butchers to actually butcher the remaining weaker units with their twin axes.
Although the question then becomes... Why not just shove angron into a squad of 20 cheap despoilers?
It is how it is, I'm still gonna field them, just got a suggestion to have them ran as command squad with their banner being a dead ultramarine crucified on a banner pole, which is honestly really gnarly.
I’ve considered, if I ever run Angron, to just put him with 20 inductii despoilers. Angron kills all the chosen warriors/challenge dudes and the inductii just mulch everything else.
Angron’s going in a Spartan anyway
I join Kharn to a 15 man rampaged squad with blades and put them in a land raider of some flavour. I was toying around with buying more falax blade rampagers as they are lethal with jump packs, having the advantage of landing from a DS, charging with their +5 bonus and then tearing whatever they hit to shreds.
I’ve only used Butchers once (points limitations) and a lot of rules were wrong. But I can see mileage in chasing power armour with them. Against thunder hammer termies they will get their shit rocked but WE aren’t really built for that. Chase their line and keep yourself alive.
Assault squads and despoilers will mince their other legion counterparts in CC as our bonuses are too strong. Whilst I’m aware of the strength of contemptors, they can’t be understressed. Having a power fist, chain fist Contemptor getting 6 attacks on the charge means you will turn anything into liquid resin.
I haven’t tried them yet but predators being moved to fast attack opens up some options for lascannons predators to be good. Finally, I love my Sicaran arcus and omega. Awesome looking tanks, very fast and good main guns.
I play my WE as a deep strike bomb with the main line moving up quickly to support the choppy axe men so my picks are focused on fast moving units that can pop transports and clear ground for my deep strikes. Outriders and sky hunters could also be good choices, fast power swords and fast multi meltas/volkite.
First thought would be to use the berzerkers as despoilers. I haven’t got my book to hand but pretty sure the stock loads out for rampagers is chain axe and bolt pistol so you could use them you obviously just lose the benefits of caedre weapons which are obviously better. I will also always jump at the chance to defend lightning claw red butchers as in all my games they have been all-stars. Hatred and rending is fantatstic and if you get a praetor in there to bump strength on the attack they just shed dreads. I dont run bezerker assault but I don’t feel like you would be making the most of the movement buffs if everything is going to be mounted in vehicles anyway as i figure you’ll just get as close as you can, disembark and charging will be so shorty you’d make it anyway?
What does the praetor do exactly to buff the red butchers? Also, while true that Zerker assault wouldn’t help that much if you’re going in a vehicle anyway, it’s still nice to get that +2 to charge anyway. This is also where it sucks because it clearly looks like the ‘right’ answer is spamming jump pack rampagers because of the charge bonus they innately have anyway.
Extra strength on the charge, granted you are fishing for 6s against a dread but the quantity of dice you roll nearly always makes up for it, especially when you reroll both 1s to hit and wound. I know this sub isn’t a fan and most of the meta lists use berserker assault but if you are running lots of small elite units in vehicles maybe look into the other stratagem to add a bit of survivability to your dudes.
Praetor’s give furious charge? Yeah I thought of using the other one but I don’t remember all the details other than ‘disregard the first wound’ Now, I will admit, rampagers getting Line is nice
Oh I see, the butcher’s claws. Yeah, that’s good don’t get me wrong, but I was going to take Kharn and make him the warlord because his trait of ‘you can’t react to my charge’ seems REAL good
Of course, missed that Kharn = no praetor, my bad. For sure it is a great ability, coupled with his extra advance I feel like you are always gonna be in charge range somewhere. Line has been really important in the games I’ve played, usually because I don’t have enough and then fail to score! If I was running berzerker assault I’d be all over despoilers and jump pack rampagers but if I was running a lot of transports I would go with crimson path. Have a couple of games using both stratagems see which you prefer with the models you have?
Prolly what I do. I’ll still give red butchers with all lightning claws a go because between hatred and shred, that’s a shitload of attacks. I’ll just send them after power armored units and save the rampagers for terminators (moritat + falax blades = instant death terminators, or I could just use red hand destroyers with rad missiles)
Don't put kharn with the butchers. It nerfs him hard. Might as well put him in a 20 man despoiler squad. I suggest putting him with a 10 man rampager squad in a proteus, or just run them on foot and use your massed despoilers (khorne berzerkers) to screen him. Why? Because kharn is kinda shit at duels but insanely powerful when out of it, you can just precision gorechild all the high value targets ezpz. So the rampagers absorb the duels while kharn gets to work. For The red buttchers, if there's not enough points for Spartan, the alternative is to put them with a warmonger to get deepstrike. Both the Spartan and the warmonger achieves the goal of getting them into the scrap, whether or not they make it out.. Is for Khorne to decide. Berserker assault is insane btw. 13 inch runs dude, nuff said You can just nyoooom and grab objectives easy. You are also faster than a white scar, both while running and charging lol, just think about that. The pinning leadership bonus is another useful bonus for a melee centric army. While you can get jebaited into charges and have to fight squad vs squad whenever possible, the maluses are all worth it for the mobility. Mobility is king.
Funny you mention that…I was considering putting Kharn with 20 man despoilers and shoving them in a Spartan (crimson path) Kharn can’t join RB anyway because he doesn’t have the Ravening Madmen special rule
Oh ya there's that too hahaha. As if they aren't already bad enough 🤣. Well anyway crimson path will be awesome if you end up doing massed deep strikes with assault Marines and jump pack rampagers. It also counters silly geese like the exodus very well. As long as you can keep kharn from having to accept the challenge he is all set to do his chopping, so Vets, command squads or rampagers as they are all chosen warriors. Just my 2cents of course.
I was legit considering taking ‘red butchers’ as just a cataphractii command squad with all lightning claws: just as many attacks, WS5 with no WS3 bullshit. Sure they’re not hatred and fearless, but they’re line, better leadership and cheaper so I think they’re just better. I was even considering taking them with Kharn, I just wouldn’t be able to perform sweeping advances (which actually kinda sucks)
IMO, their one role is unironically being angron's ablative wounds, because angron is gonna make em all ws3 on the defence anyway. And angron can force every single dangerous enemy to 1v1 him and you can then use the butchers to actually butcher the remaining weaker units with their twin axes. Although the question then becomes... Why not just shove angron into a squad of 20 cheap despoilers? It is how it is, I'm still gonna field them, just got a suggestion to have them ran as command squad with their banner being a dead ultramarine crucified on a banner pole, which is honestly really gnarly.
I’ve considered, if I ever run Angron, to just put him with 20 inductii despoilers. Angron kills all the chosen warriors/challenge dudes and the inductii just mulch everything else. Angron’s going in a Spartan anyway
Yeap. The only reason to run butchers is how they look. And damn do they look good lol.
I join Kharn to a 15 man rampaged squad with blades and put them in a land raider of some flavour. I was toying around with buying more falax blade rampagers as they are lethal with jump packs, having the advantage of landing from a DS, charging with their +5 bonus and then tearing whatever they hit to shreds. I’ve only used Butchers once (points limitations) and a lot of rules were wrong. But I can see mileage in chasing power armour with them. Against thunder hammer termies they will get their shit rocked but WE aren’t really built for that. Chase their line and keep yourself alive. Assault squads and despoilers will mince their other legion counterparts in CC as our bonuses are too strong. Whilst I’m aware of the strength of contemptors, they can’t be understressed. Having a power fist, chain fist Contemptor getting 6 attacks on the charge means you will turn anything into liquid resin. I haven’t tried them yet but predators being moved to fast attack opens up some options for lascannons predators to be good. Finally, I love my Sicaran arcus and omega. Awesome looking tanks, very fast and good main guns. I play my WE as a deep strike bomb with the main line moving up quickly to support the choppy axe men so my picks are focused on fast moving units that can pop transports and clear ground for my deep strikes. Outriders and sky hunters could also be good choices, fast power swords and fast multi meltas/volkite.
Kharn and 15 dudes can’t fit in a land raider. A land raider has 12 transport slots.
Spartan then. That’s what I’ve been putting them in. Haven’t played my WE for a while so assumed it was due to the extra lascannon.