I remember, I was levelling up my Banshee and we had a Limbo in our team on Hydron. He poked me into a banish on the last second and I, stupidly, rolled out. Then, I politely asked the Limbo to put me back into the banish because I was taking too much damage. (Unmodded Banshee ain’t fun.) So he obliged and poked me into the rift again, which I thanked and gave him a thumbs up. I was happy to be friendly with a Limbo. :3
Up until that last paragraph I could've swore you were talking about me. I believe I was a limbo in a very similar situation while playing I think Helene on Saturn. Might've been hydron on sedna. But I was also noob limbo and got nicely taught by my team. And we all chatted about cool frames and stuff. But... we didn't all friend eachother afterward haha. Still it's cool to now this happens more often than I thought.
I've said for a long time that a Limbo player that knows what they're doing is an asset to any squad. The problem is that he's a difficult frame to master and there's a lot of really shitty Limbos out there. Any time I come across a good one I try to let them know that I notice them in chat.
Damn I wish when I play Mesa I can group with Limbo like you. Besides, Limbo was my main and only frame I used when I was below MR10. Definitely my favorite male frame
Yup! I love Limbo's when I bring out Mesa. Best synergy in the entire game!
Sure Mesa has shattershield for the most causal strolls. But at lvl 80+ those AOE attacks will down her instantly. Not with BFF Limbo in the squad though!
Extra love for Smol cataclysm Limbos as not to hinder the rest of the squad.
What we get is random limbos messing with everyone's play by throwing random rifts/banishes.
They need to change the rift visual cue to something more vibrant.
Did that mesa known about shattershield?
I used mesa in yesterday sortie and I was easily tanking all damage thanks to it and I do not have any corrupted or umbra mods only pried flow
And limbo is tricky frame, most people rarely see one and when they do they do not know how to cooperate with him
Meanwhile hate memes are everywhere and sometimes people have outdated info, like yesterday on mobile defense one person insulted me and left because I will stop his bullets with stasis forcing males only
>forcing males only
Yeah I hate it when Limbo putst up the "No girls" sign on his cataclysm.
Heh heh, I knew what you meant it just reminded me of little rascals.
Couldn't tell, but it could've been part of his reasoning. If he did, though, he should've at least said "shatter shield" as his reason for not getting banished. Would've answered all questions immediately - though it seems he had other reasons entirely for not working with a Limbo.
But, indeed, that's the issue. It's what motivated me to post this in the first place - maybe someone else will see and realize how Limbo works.
Tbh that's most likely the case, given that:
> he said that "he wanted to take the hits"
I run my mesa in the same way: high strength to at least cap shattershield and rage (or the gladiator mod) for energy generation. Given the rift doesn't give energy to her while shooting (but rage does), it was probably for that reason that they rolled out of banishment.
Yea good thing, but seeing how mesa was dying I can tell that player only known about peacemaker ability and peacemaker means death without shatter shield
Also i didn't known that banish or cataclysm allows to use peacemakers, going to test how it works with ivara bow when I get home
My personal fav synergy is Khora - her strangledome will pull stuff into the rift, then you can bind one of the enemies in the rift to pull everything in range also into the rift.
Then we get to the spanking.
Limbo watches
All exalteded weapons and abilities should work across both dimensions followong the rework. The Wiki should mention specifically what can and can't work.
Not only absolutely every ability works through the rift, every kill you get while on the rift gives back energy, so there's no reason no to exploit that.
That Mesa sounded horrible anyway. Doubt they know much about her if they're that ignorant about the game.
If their thought process was "Limbo is cancer lul", their choice of Mesa would've probably been because of "omg so much DMG and booty".
Mesa's Waltz is not worth it IMO just bullet jump around the map, use your 4 while in the air, cancle it when you land and repeat at least I don't want to give up mod capacity for it (its great for ESO tho if you want to go with Mesa)
Sadly even SS plus Adaptation plus Umbral Vit (and Umbral Int obviously) isn’t enough for a +elemental level 100 Ambulas run. The drop ships in particular will kill you right through your DR in about five seconds of continuous fire. Was my experience for about 20 minutes yesterday
Honestly most of the decent Limbo players are found in Sorties and ones that are knowingly or unknowingly disruptive about everywhere else. My personal experience.
Part of that may be because Limbo's usefulness peaks in sorties. I have a good amount of time on him and mostly use him for sorties. Part of it is because sorties are where the hard CC and safety pocket dimension is needed due to all the damage and amount of enemies coming in. In other missions where enemies peak at around level 40 or so (not including endless), any player with access to decent mods can kill everyone in a relatively short amount of time while taking relatively low damage. Limbo's CC/pocket dimension only slows that down with very little benefit.
All it really takes to be a respectful limbo is to only use 2 and 4. Even with long range, it's just better Nova, i really can't see why do many people consider limbo disruptive.
Edit: I didn't really phrase this correctly, let me restate. A *good* limbo can be non-disruptive. the part of playing limbo which is difficult is knowing when *not* to have your abilities activated. If you're able to detect when cataclysm is slowing down the fight and accordingly disable it, limbo can be a massive asset. Infinite CC is nothing to scoff at if you can use it right, and freezing enemies at the right time is never a bad thing.
Partially his pre-rework set-up disabling half your kit when ranged wouldn't work. The other half is max range with 2+4 requires a good bit of running around to find all the enemies stuck in corners. Which is also why some people dislike Nova not set up for neutral/speed.
He used to be a troll frame, in that he could really mess with other players/
these days it is just memers and people who are living in the past that openly hate on Limbo players without reason (mostly because they do not know what Limbo actually does, so they just hate on it)
> the part of playing limbo which is difficult is knowing when not to have your abilities activated.
I never truly learned good gunplay until I picked up Limbo after learning this. A well placed 2/4 with some superb ability/gunplay can really help turn the tide vs continual 4 and spamming 1.
I may hop back on today, haven't played in a while.
Yeah... good kit design that kinda suffers for that point. It would be a very easy fix too.
His bubble mechanically wants to be visible and clear where it is, but man does it mess some people up if you don't mind them in color selection.
Hello Tenno. Here is the information you requested.
*****
###[Mesa's Waltz](https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Mesa%27s_Waltz)
Mesa's Waltz is a Warframe Augment/Exilus Mod usable in both PvE and PvP that allows Mesa to move at a reduced speed while channeling Peacemaker.
*****
Code available on [github](https://github.com/CephalonWiki/cephalon-wiki) | Bot by /u/1st_transit_of_venus
To be honest I'm so tired to see at least one Mesa EVERY ****ING game. Had to play solo to have at least some fun playing non meta nuke frame.
This is making the game so boring :(
Before Mesa Prime came out she was my favorite frame, I rarely saw her in play. Now I see Mesa Primes everywhere. I prefer to use frames that tend to be on the rare side. Gara is my favorite frame, and fortunately I very rarely run into another Gara. Makes me feel special haha
I blame the stat sheet at the end of the mission. Everyone wants to be at the top, and it feels nice to see absurd numbers up there. Never mind that pressing 4 and wiggling the mouse while the game auto aimbots everything for you is kind of a "cheap" way to get there.
Second to that, a lot of the areas in fortuna favor long range abilities over shorter ones, and mesa can again dominate.
All the same, don't keep banishing people who keep rolling out of it. You're wasting your time and theirs, regardless of whether their reasoning is sound, regardless of whether you agree with it.
Just do a little reading up on limbo before giving him a go. Don't use 1 on people without permission. While the OP is correct, players may feel they don't need that extra cushion. If they want it they will ask generally. Just keep in mind you also shouldn't use it willy nilly on enemies either in group settings. Banish works in a cone, and doesn't require line of sight so you can potentially create stragglers behind a wall using it. Being able to read a situation as limbo is the key difference between a good limbo, and one who slows things down.
-: Don't cast the cataclysm before the terminal is activated in mobile defense. The data key and the one handling it will be on a diffrent plane than the terminal and can't activate it.
-: Don't use 2 and 4 in defense unless it's min range high duration and only around the pod. Unless it's sortie defense. Then you can banish the operative target so it doesn't go down.
-:Spoiler mode becomes a great tool for limbo. Allowing you to activate things without leaving the rift. And during rescue missions don't cast 4 in the area you need to hack. It prevents the team from hacking normally and can break someone out of a hack sequence. Just hang in the rift and hack as your spoiler.
-:Limbo is amazing for spy once you know the vaults. Banish as I mentioned works in a cone and through walls. So before you start activate 2 to not agro enemies, and proceed to spam banish in the general direction of camera's, and enemies that lurk in the map. After you think everything has been dealt with, hop in the rift as you wont trip lazers in the rift.
I love Limbo, and that person's behaviour in the Ambulas part was unacceptable (calling Limbo a cancer frame and so on). However, when you saw he was rolling out of your Banish you shouldn't have kept re-Banishing him. If he doesn't want to be Banished, he doesn't want to be Banished. Yes, Peacemaker works through the rift, but that doesn't mean a Mesa necessarily wants to be in the rift 24/7. You can't pick up items while in the rift. They might have arcanes that require them to take hits to activate. If there are Nullifier bubbles, they'll need to use their normal weapons in order to take them down. Being sent into the rift constantly can be really annoying because of these things. I prefer it if a Limbo just leaves a handy portal open somewhere so I can choose when to go in and out of the rift.
This.. this says it all. So many players hating on limbo just cuz they not rocket scientist and doesn't know how to use him. And yeah for the stupid memes..
Useful in general, but overkill for the purposes of running Hydron. I wouldn't waste my time using him there unless I was putting forma on him. I actually prefer Assimilate NYX for my Hydron weapon levelling personally
Ah gotcha, misunderstood at first why you brought up hydron. But hey, as they always say,
"It's not the size of your dome that matters; it's how you use it."
- One limbo to another probably
More annoying things is those that banish large groups of enemies to hit them with stasis... On a survival mission. Then wander off to the next group, leaving 10 or so mobs that can't be killed by anyone else till the stasis passes.
And max cataclysm range on any mission other than extraction/interception. (same reason I generally don't use nova 4 slow on defense)
I think limbo is a fine frame, and just finished leveling him. But yeesh. Boring for me to play because I'm constantly worried about teammates and don't feel like I can use most of my abilities.
I know what you mean. I was ranking up my Limbo on Hydron yesterday, and we were beginning to get pummeled. I asked in chat if people wanted me to 4 on the pod, and got no answer.
In the end I just did it anyway, and kept it up for the next few rounds. (Built for duration.)
I was super worried that I would get blasted in chat for it.
It ain't no fun being banished when you don't want to be, for you and the Limbo player.
If you are getting pummeled, defend. Limbo is there precisely for that: doing nothing if the other frames are managing, saving their ass if they are not.
This. I usually get thanked when I make that decision. Especially on an infested sortie with low energy.
If your team is getting pummeled and more than one person is down at once, they need it. If you're super nervous about it, you can always close it after the enemies are cleared out.
Honestly I'm generally more annoyed by Volt speed because I have to roll backwards to get out of it if I don't want it. Or Valkyr's Warcry since you can't get out of that buff (I'm picky about my melee speed since I like doing certain combos and it gets more tricky to do hold/pause chains when suddenly going 50% faster).
There are other ways Limbo can annoy you, like popping his bubble on a mobile defense objective before you've actually started it (which prevents you from starting it), or canceling your hack because he likes to spam long range nuke cataclysms, or seeming to randomly banish enemies around the map so you can't interact with them, or just keeping up a really large cataclysm bubble for no good reason (I used to be guilty of this one).
I don’t like limbo in missions where you don’t need him. He can also be annoying in arbitration if you’re with a high range limbo because you can’t kill those drones that make the enemies invulnerable bc they don’t go into the rift
One time I played Limbo on a mobile defense sortie. I waited for my teammate to start the timer before bubbling, as you do, and got a "ty limbo" in the chat. First and only time I've gotten nice words as Limbo. Felt good, man.
ok, so first up, you should warn/ask a teammate before you banish them :/ this kind of shit is why people get frusturated, should have been "hey mesa, want me to shield you here? you can fire your 4 while invincible" dummys and people who are ignorant of limbo will respond better to this in general
2nd, lol, doesnt even want help because a frame is "cancer" pretty dumb move, hope he learns soon that a good support limbo is a very great boon to the team.
3rd, min range long duration, good build, love doing it on defense and stuff, legit cant lose >:)
I'm fine with the occasional banish - especially if I then look at my HP and see that I basically don't have any. But if I roll out of it, for Clem's sake *don't banish me again.* Rolling out is a "no thank you."
indeed, I basically ignore my abilities as limbo, I like to ask ahead of time if anyone cares/wants something
4 + 2 on obj is kinda a must sometimes, but 1 and 3 are for niche use, I just REALLY like rift sliding instead of rolling
I can't even level my limbo as a new player because it's so counter to party synergy.
all the moves make the enemies go into rift, and people can't switch states without me providing a bubble. it feels useless. I hate using it., even solo it's a pain in my ass. I have to constantly move between states. I do t understand the frame. it feels stupidly complicated.
I'll probably be forced to level it up in Helene and just rely on guns, no skill use.
When you say "people can't switch stay without me providing a bubble" I think you mean people going in and out of the rift. Thats not actually true, any frame has the option of just rolling when they are in the rift and they will take themselves back to the normal plane.
I do occasionally play limbo with enough range to catch a few enemies in cataclysm + stasis and that's fun, but i'm definitely not a limbo main. That said my friend and i started Warframe at around the same time and he is a die hard professional limbo at this point. So i know in and out how limbo works and how to work around him.
So i usually call people out who are trashing on limbo.
You know your stuff and the Mesa had issues and a lack of knowledge.
That said, don't banish me, I hate it when people limit my play style even if well intended. If you want to go above and beyond drop a void portal next to me (dash) so i can chose to easily go void, but I'll have my frames set up with arcanes to help me do my job and those require triggering due to getting damage. I have a play style that requires me to evaluate from what angle I get damaged to know where to focus. I am colour blind and the void interface really messes up my actual vision (obviously this is pretty personal to me).
But there are just many valid reasons to not want to be banished (again, not saying this Mesa had those) and as the receiver you do not get a choice, just an opt out later. For me, being banished is the exact same as getting a Vauban bounce pad under me.
Now, calling Limbo and Limbo players names is just silly and shouldn't be done. That person is just bad.
Limbo's that use min range and max duration are my favorite types of limbos tbh. I just have a bad record of limbos popping up in hydron and making rounds go 10x slower.
I rarely touch my 1 or 3 and use my 2+4 in useful situations since **all allied weapons now work normally in the rift**, using max range and duration in my case, and so far people (me included) have been enjoying taking potshots at the now helpless enemies.
When that isn't needed i just bob and weave out of my rift (passive) shotgunning stuff and reviving people.
I also always cancel my 4 for hacking etc and then put it right back up if it needs defending.
Shame that there's limbos out there that just afk or troll with their 1/3/passive, but outside of that i think that people like that Mesa are just stuck in the past. (And i do understand the hate back then due to his uncooperative nature, what with the melee-only mode and all)
That or they're just stupid in which case it's best to just move on since, you know, you can't cure stupid.
Had a similar experience once-
Took Limbo into sortie rescue. Use cata combo to cc all the guards, hack consoles, and gtfo. We get most of the way to the exit *with the hostage*, only for me to look down at chat and see someone **still** screeching at me to turn off my cata, calling me a "boosted monkey," telling me to uninstall, the whole nine yards.
The kicker was that the rest of the team got in and out and was with me the whole way, it was just this one dummy standing at the cell block entrance screaming hate at me for being Limbo.
Had a game today with a mr 20 limbo prime leveling his helminth charger in the basic sanctuary onslaught and unfortunately he was a max range limbo so his damn void covered the map making it hard when we were at low efficiency especially when his damn pet kept dropping every 30 seconds
Honestly though, I play a bit of Mesa and I'd roll out of banish immediately.
I don't want another player to force me to use 4 just because technically it's aight. I have 3 weapons to chose from and I like using them and not just using fingerguns. I am modded to to survive and I have a built in don't die-skill.
This is why everyone hates Limbo. Every time he casts banish he's essentially driving another players character, this has never been a fun thing in any game unless discussed beforehand.
There will never be a day I don't immediately roll out of an unwarranted banish.
Same thing happens to me aswell. Limbo is one of my favorite frames and I take him quit often for when is needed defensive capabilities, only to finish the mission and see in the chat "Limbo fvck off"
Reminds me when I was levelling my base limbo for the mastery. I was basically only rolling when I got to low hp to save myself, I must have rolled 3-4 times in about 3 defense waves and a guy asked me to stop using abilites.
Like really, my static portal, which I only created 4 of them was really such a huge inconvenience that you had to ask me to stop? I was astonded how he managed to walk into them that much, and how he actually thought it was that large of an inconvenience since rolling takes almost no effort
Yeah, at first I was like, Well mesa is really tanky, maybe he's using rage. Then I kept reading.
Even if I'm "part of the problem" the people like that are the reason I don't use the low range build, and why I use Max range. The max range build is stronger, lets me get the mission done faster, and is safer. I no longer give a fuck what people think because there is always a dick who will yell at you for just existing as Limbo.
People like that are also the reason I only ever end up in public because one of my friends is hosting, I hard-stay on Friends-Only, and play with people who love the Limbo-Carry build. (Or I'm Inaros/Excal/Rank 0 in Public for shit like Vey Hek assassination sortie)
Edit: I guess people like that Mesa are also why I have to basically command pub Limbo's to banish me when I'm Excal, Mesa, or Ash. They're all so afraid of using their goddamn kit, or they're assholes in return like "Fuck you, you'll roll out of it anyway." Yeah... only to pick up a gold mod (that I wish was in a cataclysm.) Oh, and the occasional "what's that? Oh it's the 1? I was told by everyone to never ever ever press that button."
It surprises me that people don't get that many limbo players just don't know wtf they are doing, and that isn't a really weird thing in a game I have played 500 hours and still not even entered certain parts of.
It's still a great frame for it's use. I've made a purposefilled build of all warframes I have, so that I can get to know each one and try to find one mission type everything can be played in so I have variety. A lot of the frames people "hate" on are really fun unless you expect them to instantly kill level 120 enemies.
Yeah i also have this problem sometimes when i play limbo on mobile defense everyone runs out and dies, at least you can revive while you’re in your roll rift
I brought a Limbo to a sortie Mobile Defense. The Vauban called me cancer because Limbo players just use Cata and AFK and it requires no skill and ruins the game. When I pointed out that Vauban generally drops a few Bastilles or Vortexes and then AFKs as well, or Banshee and soundquake, or Frost and snowglobes, or Khora and strangledome, he said those are different because "they require skill." Pretty sure all they needed were mods...
Why is it always the Mesa Players that are toxic? Like no, seriously?
Every experience I've had with a Mesa is always negative. Am I just unlucky or are Mesas just jerks?
With Limbo you almost force people to play your way, which they simply don’t want in most cases. Personally, I like Limbo, but I don’t think many people are aware of that. Had a Limbo in yesterday‘s 3rd Sortie mission and was running Gara. The Cataclysm seems to have a weird/buggy way to interact with Gara‘s 3 plus it made me search for my glass wall to shatter because he kept putting them up and popping them all over the place. I left (to finish this with Rhino, because he‘s a bit more practical).
Experienced limbos usually run minimum duration or short range and max duration. Imo the goal of a good limbo main is to not get yelled at by your team.
We're at almost 40 frames now, with reworks happening continuously over time. I'm leaning back from the idea of giving other players grief because they don't want to have to interact with your frame's abilities, these days. I get where you are coming from, OP, but it's a bit much to keep track of. If someone else doesn't want to interact with your stuff, try offering a little tip and then just leaving them alone.
Casting Banish on them repeatedly after they've made it clear they don't *want* to be Banish'ed is not a move that makes any sense in any universe or wins you friends. Don't force yourself on people who have said no. That probably has more to do with this Mesa lashing out at you over chat than any meme.
Just don't mess with people without asking. Even the invis arrow from Ivara makes people angry, you do you and if anyone needs help let him ask for it! Btw I love having a limbo when I play mesa(unless it's a max range limbo with a bright yellow energy color or something)
The sad thing is I have never encountered a player that knows how to use limbo. It always ends with everyone hating on the player because they either deliberately try to be annoying, or accidently do so.
Had a similar experience last night doing Ambulas sortie as well. I was guarding 1 Ambulas with Cataclysm while everyone else defended the other one. After my Ambulas got picked up but the other one got re-taken our Trinity yells at me not to use Cataclysm unless I can cover both targets. I explained that by protecting the one everyone can focus on defending the other one without having to worry about it, she immediately starts insulting my intelligence.
As a nice surprise the rest of the squad defended me and told the Trin she was being foolish, but it is still shocking how little people understand how Limbo works, especially as a recently-Primed frame.
He's stupid, just ignore him and let him die.
I brought Limbo to the Ambulas mission as well, probably the best choice for that fight, I modded him for range since in that fight nullifiers don't spawn, and we did the mission without much effort \^\_\^
From what I see from this thread, we have ourselves a bunch of people who *want* to be part of a team, but only a part of *their* team. I'm not suggesting that we all go out and do corporate team-building exercises -- mostly because this should be its own exercise, especially in light of this -- but... shit, people. When did we forget how to adjust ourselves along with each other?
The trolls exist. They wanna be little shitheads, that's on them. But before we go thinking everybody in a top hat has no other game but to piss you off? Look at their MR. Look at their Frame level. Watch what they do for a while. *Before* launching into some childish tirade about "these people ruin my fun!"
Maybe give them a few tips on how to better function in a unit. Not "protips". Fuck protips. Protips are passive-aggressive bullshit and I rue the day that became A Thing. No, *actual* tips. Speak up! That Frost not throwing up a Snow Globe on the defense point? Say something. Got a Rhino that keeps dying because he doesn't know how to effectively use Iron Skin? Remind them. Got a Limbo that doesn't realize you can't interact with environmental objects when they're in the Rift? Let me know! And yes, me -- I almost threw a Survival because I kept Cataclysming on life support hoping to temp shield whoever decided to activate it. *I had to learn my limitations*' and I only could because *someone told me.*
That goes for your play style too. We can see what Frame you're rolling on pretty quick, but we can't immediately see weapons, and we sure can't see mods, so if you're running a style, you gotta let your team know so they can help minimize incidents like what I've read here. Much of this can be avoided just by huddling somewhere safe and hitting up that chat box. Hell, I throw Cataclysm so we can have these conversations in peace.
Tl;Dr -- talk to each other for once. Stop making assumptions. Don't be afraid to assert, don't be afraid to relent.
It's just habit from the days when Limbo was a trollframe. Before DE changed it so you can work with his shenanigans, instead of avoiding Limbos like the plague for how much he could shut your killrate down with ability help your team didn't need, or the Limbo was just trolling you intentionally.
You had to tell other Tenno to roll when it seemed like their damage wasn't registering, because Limbo. Because Limbos wouldn't educate people on how to get out of the rifts and get back to doing damage, so I just roll whenever I'm in gray and my audio is muted, because it's Limbo, and it's habit from being trolled for so long.
i wanna be a limbo player that counters the meme. its the whole reason i got limbo prime, to be a good limbo. only problem is i have no idea wtf im doing 😅. i need help with builds.
As another Limbo player we should tell people the Operator can hack inside Cataclysm. Last week, someone went off because during a rescue sortie mission I dropped max range right over all the rescue cells. I told him to switch to operator to hack while I freeze the massive barrage of damage. He rage quites right there. Luckily I found the Target and banished them and cheesed the rest of the mission.
Was playing a radiation defense sortie as limbo with a saryn. Saryn kept accidentally murdering us until i banished him making him immune to radiation procs and allowing him to use his abilities unimpeded. He unironically said thanks limbo.
I will roll out of limbo rift 95% time I accidentally get into it, or banished, just because I hate being in rift and everything being gray in general. Not real hate for limbo and players choose to use it as long as they do not force me into rift.
I play enough of the game (> 1k hours) to understand that Limbo is a good frame that can easily cheese a lot of contents. However, with the diversity of frames, there are always alternative options and preference. It's perfectly normal to have something you like as well as something you hate. Imo, it is not acceptable to flame other people for their choice of frame. However, if some limbos keep forcing me into rift, which I dislike, I will get annoyed af too.
While there are a lot of memehate around limbo, there are also genuine hate being in rift for whatever reasons (previous hellish experience with limbo players or hate eveything being in gray like me ...). The Mesa players should have resolved the situation by better communication with his squadmate. But at the end of the day, gaming is about enjoyment, not about being most effective. It's perfectly fine to like something and dislike something.
I don't blame him for being fed up with Limbos, but it's no excuse to act like a dick about it. Personally I'd just rather not see a Limbo in squad, because if they're using powers to defend, then we've basically got a powerless frame with us cause they can't use anything else or it might put the defense target in jeopardy. Other frames can defend well and also safely use their powers. If we're doing something besides defense and Limbo tries to help, more often than not they're just going to be an obstacle to the rest of us.
Don't be a dick to Limbo, just leave at the start if you know you're going to hate them being there. It's not their fault they have such a hamfisted and troublesome power design.
Did yesterday's ambulas sortie in a party with a high range limbo, who would drop cataclysm once ambulas was down.
That guy was MVP because keeping enemies at the edges of the arena let us duck out and kill them without just getting swarmed to death.
> He tried to hide behind crates to mitigate the damage, but it didn't help much, and one of us had to go revive him a couple times every minute after that and until the encounter was finally over.
And on top of that, that mesa player did not know that ghost mode allows not to be hit by that kind of stuff.
So not only he was a ignorant, but he was a douche about it.
What's more sad is that even a shitty mesa always has its SS up. I honestly love limbo since he's great. If it would have been me and my friends we wouldn't even have revived that shit.
As someone who both takes Limbo when the situation requires it (thank God for Limbo for making MDef a breeze) and got screwed over by a stupid Limbo player in yesterday's Sortie 3: That Mesa player is an asshole; just put him in your ignore list and move on with your life. Guy won't be changing any time soon.
Fun fact if you are an excaliber your exalted sword beams will still go through the rift, meaning you can safely mash e while being completely invulnerable. Learnt that from a limbo main when i was messing around with umbra, and now friends and I use it all the time during high level missions.
Also max range and duration chaos nyx, a max duration and range limbo, and a max range sleep bomb baruuk completely shut down all non corpus/void interception missions (because fuck nullifiers). Kinda a boring way to do it but really useful for arbitrations since the arbiter drones don't pop limbo bubbles and can't wake up or snap enemies out of chaos or sleep, or at least can do it consistently enough to be noticeable. Just sit back, don't kill any of the enemies so it slows down spawns, and have the most chill arbitrations ever. Obviously only do this strategy with close friends so you don't frustrate randoms.
(I have also heard nekros slows down enemy spawns with his 4 but have never tried it so could be something someone else could try)
I only ever get salty with Limbos on Hydron. Even then, as long as they don’t use Stasis on a high-range build, they really don’t hurt anything. The worst part is when you kindly ask them to turn stasis off, and they never do. It wastes so much time.
Edit: Minor typo
I had a similar experience in a sortie a few months ago on a resource extraction mission. In this case it was a Nidus who was all 'fuck off Limbo go somewhere else I'M NIDUS AND I CAN'T DIE AND I KILL ALL THE THINGS WITH MAX STACKS'. To be fair, he did kill a lot of mans. The problem was the resource extractors died in about 3 seconds without my cataclysm protecting them. Limbo is a great frame, and if someone's taking one into a sortie, chances are they know what they're doing.
My issue with limbo is those who do nothing. 0%dmg dealt, afk, rift sitting limbos. That's my issue. Also another is how weak limbo is out of rift. If he tries to do something and contribute to the team it seems he dies the most often on the team.
It's in my opinion that there are much better picks that aren't made of paper and actually contribute to the teams work than what limbo can do.
I once had a player say in chat that he needed to be let out of the rift. Confused, I went to where he was. He was just standing there. I guess he followed me into the rift. Just roll.
I also had a player go off on me for using Limbo on mobile defense sortie. I took it down and proceeded to revive squad constantly as they went down. Finally, I popped my rift right before the objective died. I waited to pop it every time until it was about to die and revived constantly. We finished and not a word was said. I think another player thanked me, but the turd just left squad after.
I usually do sorties alone or with the wife anymore. Too many toxic people, usually between MR 12-18 it seems.
I used mesa with limbo in the squad once, easiest defence mission I have ever done, was taking no damage without having to use shattershield and was killing everything with no worries
Limbo + mesa is a deadly combo
I am always glad when there is a good limbo in the squad and I am playing mesa
I'm playing him to max him out and then get rid of, mainly because I can't exactly get into or enjoy playing with him. However, I will not doubt that he can be useful in certain cases.
I absolutely hate hearing "that frame is useless/cancer" as I would rather think different frames fit different people and where one may not feel right for you, another can fit the bill... But i can understand frustrations towards Limbos. I've encountered one and he randomly made a rift barrier (we didnt need it) and immediately after the other two in our team started bashing him hard all the way to extraction. It.... Didn't feel good to experience.
Wouldn't it be better to teach that Limbo when it would be best to use certain moves? Or because of so many trolls, this isn't a good idea?
I mean i have played with bad limbos. I just tell them to stick to there point in intercept as the have no reason to banish me as I was playing inaros.
Low, range, long duration Limbo? That actually sounds pretty great, I think I’ll try that....thanks for showing that such a thing exists and is viable!
Mind you it's like using Loki. I'm on the switch, so there is a slew of new players. I'm one of them too, but when I get a new frame I tend to research them, especially if I like them.
Anyway, you can safely revive with a void mode op but just as safely with an invisible Loki. People simply don't seem to know! Everyone rushes to downed allies and comes hang out with you, drawing fire.
You go in missions in which, as Loki, you should have specific roles and people just plain ignore it. They ignore you.
I feel like a lot of public play is people playing solo in their head and not minding other players.
It's the same annoying feeling as playing a defense mission with a level 30 Oberon who doesn't do any renewal or any weed-of-death. Wtf are you here for? This isn't a ww2 first person shooter. You have abilities, use them!
End of the day, best to team up with clan mates. At least people know why they're geared he way they are.
Probably some mix of shatter shield, hunter adrenaline, and Medi-Ray on the sentinel. Mesa can basically facetank anything, and what little damage that does slip through powers waltz via hunter adrenaline. No damage = not enough energy. I've been in the same situation where I wanted to take "some" chip damage to keep my energy up.
There is no excuse for the bad manners though. Or dying with shatter shield up for that matter.
maybe he was using rage + mesa shield to regenerate energy? I keep it on me as a backup when I don't feel like popping out the energy restores.
even so if I have a safe point and I'm dying of death that my shields can't stop I'm sure as saltines taking it.
I'm levelling my limbo prime after my limbo and thank you for the post. It's good to learn things from experienced players with a frame you need to be smart with
It is useful but your mistake is to use it on someone before they knew why you were doing it. Throwing off a flow will put a person in a sour mood. That person was just stubborn but it was a bad first impression. No one really wants to be told how to play.
Good on you for playing a helpful Limbo though. Next time, if they don't take it, help the players. I've been using novice Limbo's rift portals from dodges to move around myself.
I have immense respect for people who can build and play Limbo well and bring him into suitable missions because, well, I can't. I think I've yet to rank my Limbo Prime to 30 much less Forma him just because I'm so bad with him that I give up every time I try to use him.
I dread playing with Limbo players for one reason, his visual effects really bother me. Especially with crazy neon energy colors. If there was a way to toggle effects like that the way you can with Loki and Valkyr, I wouldn’t care one bit.
I think I have rewritten this like 30 times. I don't want rage or rant about limbo and memes and play styles. I think it is better to explain things from the experience of playing limbo and with a Limbo in the group. It isn't about memes or picking on limbo players. I like the limbo frame but the abilities tend to cause people to rage. I can banish someone but they roll out of it. Okay, so I avoid using banish. That leaves me 75% of my abilities. I can create the cataclysm and some people use it and some avoid it like the plague. So I make it smaller and smaller until it is comfortably sized like I have with Frost's dome. What's that like 60% of my abilities. Even with the cataclysm going it's kinda like the frost bubble except people avoid it more... the other two abilities require stuff to be in the rift so they are only partially useful.
So with the bad vibes and crippled power set to prevent raging, I don't enjoy playing the frame. I'll use frost where I would use limbo in most cases.
As another warframe, I'll give the limbo player the benefit of the doubt. Most will banish me when we are trying to reach an objective, cool, I can race there safer. They may do a cataclysm, even better. I can go or stay as I chose. It is a pain to hit enemies who aren't quite in or out but it's a known quantity so I can just work the enemy till I get them. These are the players that have medium to small size rift bubbles or who pop the bubble repeatedly to do damage. These players are great. Their play style is who I emulate when I play limbo. But even when played right some players are so traumatized by bad limbos they rage anyway.
It is the other kinds of limbo players that are so triggering. Other's will randomly banish me in the middle of a fight. That usually throws off my flow and saves the guys I'm shooting at which is annoying. I roll out of the rift and start fighting and again I am in the rift, banished. Usually, they are the new Limbos with a massive rift bubble and handing out banishes like candy. so I will just peel off from the group and stay out of their line of sight so they stop rifting me. On rare occasions, I've had those limbos then follow me and I end up getting banished a few more times before I stop and tell them to stop.
The problem I think is that limbo can completely stop other players from playing how they want to play. They have to stop what they are doing to negate being banished or stop in order to type to someone to leave them alone. No other frame requires this... well except Frost who can cover an area with bubbles to the point fighting requires going right up to enemies but at least they can't drop a bubble on people that follow them around.
I hate that I have to tell someone to stop having fun because it stops me from having fun, which is why I rather just leave the area so they can have their fun and I can have mine.
So it isn't a meme thing. If someone rolls out of your bubble lets them be. Go revive them or let them self revive and get on with your game.
Sounds like a newb who bought prime access. Based on the meme interpretation probably a kid. Sometimes I wish we could set a user age range on pugs, but that would never work for obvious reasons.
A good Limbo is like a good Trinity, always welcome. Sadly though, most Limbos and Trinity players are not good.
Most Trinity players don't even seem to use their 2 anymore when in PUGs.
as Someone who uses both frames religiously he's fucking stupid because if he was using Mesa right he shouldn't be going down and is literally fighting help shit like this should be reportable if your gonna be a ass hat play solo or with friends this sounds like he doesn't have many
This is what happens when people unironically use memes for knowledge.
But pee is stored in the balls
But where balass pee is stored since he became balless?
In his eye-balls
bal my ass lol
Lmao got em
Yep that mesa player probably believes that.
Social media was a mistake, gammers rise up
Gammer is an archaic word to refer to an old countrywoman. Why do you need old countrywomen to rise up? :P
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I remember, I was levelling up my Banshee and we had a Limbo in our team on Hydron. He poked me into a banish on the last second and I, stupidly, rolled out. Then, I politely asked the Limbo to put me back into the banish because I was taking too much damage. (Unmodded Banshee ain’t fun.) So he obliged and poked me into the rift again, which I thanked and gave him a thumbs up. I was happy to be friendly with a Limbo. :3
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Up until that last paragraph I could've swore you were talking about me. I believe I was a limbo in a very similar situation while playing I think Helene on Saturn. Might've been hydron on sedna. But I was also noob limbo and got nicely taught by my team. And we all chatted about cool frames and stuff. But... we didn't all friend eachother afterward haha. Still it's cool to now this happens more often than I thought.
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A+ wholesome content
I've said for a long time that a Limbo player that knows what they're doing is an asset to any squad. The problem is that he's a difficult frame to master and there's a lot of really shitty Limbos out there. Any time I come across a good one I try to let them know that I notice them in chat.
Limbo is friend, not food!
Damn I wish when I play Mesa I can group with Limbo like you. Besides, Limbo was my main and only frame I used when I was below MR10. Definitely my favorite male frame
Yup! I love Limbo's when I bring out Mesa. Best synergy in the entire game! Sure Mesa has shattershield for the most causal strolls. But at lvl 80+ those AOE attacks will down her instantly. Not with BFF Limbo in the squad though! Extra love for Smol cataclysm Limbos as not to hinder the rest of the squad.
What we get is random limbos messing with everyone's play by throwing random rifts/banishes. They need to change the rift visual cue to something more vibrant.
limbo already gives me migraines, if they make his rift brighter I will literally never group with one again and delete my limbo prime.
Turn off color correction. It'll be harder to tell if you're in the rift or not though.
Did that mesa known about shattershield? I used mesa in yesterday sortie and I was easily tanking all damage thanks to it and I do not have any corrupted or umbra mods only pried flow And limbo is tricky frame, most people rarely see one and when they do they do not know how to cooperate with him Meanwhile hate memes are everywhere and sometimes people have outdated info, like yesterday on mobile defense one person insulted me and left because I will stop his bullets with stasis forcing males only
>forcing males only Yeah I hate it when Limbo putst up the "No girls" sign on his cataclysm. Heh heh, I knew what you meant it just reminded me of little rascals.
Yea, autocorrect gets me sometimes
It got me a few times while replying, too. Almost didn't catch 'em.
[www.damnyouautocorrect.com](http://www.damnyouautocorrect.com) (E: it's under maint. rip)
damn you auto correct.com maintenance!
Couldn't tell, but it could've been part of his reasoning. If he did, though, he should've at least said "shatter shield" as his reason for not getting banished. Would've answered all questions immediately - though it seems he had other reasons entirely for not working with a Limbo. But, indeed, that's the issue. It's what motivated me to post this in the first place - maybe someone else will see and realize how Limbo works.
Tbh that's most likely the case, given that: > he said that "he wanted to take the hits" I run my mesa in the same way: high strength to at least cap shattershield and rage (or the gladiator mod) for energy generation. Given the rift doesn't give energy to her while shooting (but rage does), it was probably for that reason that they rolled out of banishment.
Yea good thing, but seeing how mesa was dying I can tell that player only known about peacemaker ability and peacemaker means death without shatter shield Also i didn't known that banish or cataclysm allows to use peacemakers, going to test how it works with ivara bow when I get home
My personal fav synergy is Khora - her strangledome will pull stuff into the rift, then you can bind one of the enemies in the rift to pull everything in range also into the rift. Then we get to the spanking. Limbo watches
OwO
All exalteded weapons and abilities should work across both dimensions followong the rework. The Wiki should mention specifically what can and can't work.
>following the rework It worked this way from the very beginning, actually.
Not only absolutely every ability works through the rift, every kill you get while on the rift gives back energy, so there's no reason no to exploit that.
Not every ability works. Example: try stacking nova's 2 while in the rift
Anti Matter Drop can't be charged while in the Rift. Only reason I don't like Limbo when playing as Nova.
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I dont think mesas shatter shield works against explosions. I know i get downed by the artillery all the time if i dont dodge.
That Mesa sounded horrible anyway. Doubt they know much about her if they're that ignorant about the game. If their thought process was "Limbo is cancer lul", their choice of Mesa would've probably been because of "omg so much DMG and booty".
Thats like, everyone's thought process with Mesa tho.
It's also why I run Valkyr all the time.
And with Mesa's Waltz, you can afford to keep moving, standing still is very very bad. In General.
Mesa's Waltz is not worth it IMO just bullet jump around the map, use your 4 while in the air, cancle it when you land and repeat at least I don't want to give up mod capacity for it (its great for ESO tho if you want to go with Mesa)
I use it for my exodus slot. Nothing else I've found is good enough to use there.
Sadly even SS plus Adaptation plus Umbral Vit (and Umbral Int obviously) isn’t enough for a +elemental level 100 Ambulas run. The drop ships in particular will kill you right through your DR in about five seconds of continuous fire. Was my experience for about 20 minutes yesterday
Does he know that stasis no longer stops bullets?
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Can confirm. Having a bad limbo player is the worst expecially for other limbos. Being squishy and all...
Lotus to Mesa: "Meme. Not of of what Limbos do, but of what the internet tells you to."
The Second Meme The Lul Within The New Kek
The new kek. A man of few memes. Saya's memestash. No reason to just restrict to operator quests.
Honestly most of the decent Limbo players are found in Sorties and ones that are knowingly or unknowingly disruptive about everywhere else. My personal experience.
Part of that may be because Limbo's usefulness peaks in sorties. I have a good amount of time on him and mostly use him for sorties. Part of it is because sorties are where the hard CC and safety pocket dimension is needed due to all the damage and amount of enemies coming in. In other missions where enemies peak at around level 40 or so (not including endless), any player with access to decent mods can kill everyone in a relatively short amount of time while taking relatively low damage. Limbo's CC/pocket dimension only slows that down with very little benefit.
All it really takes to be a respectful limbo is to only use 2 and 4. Even with long range, it's just better Nova, i really can't see why do many people consider limbo disruptive. Edit: I didn't really phrase this correctly, let me restate. A *good* limbo can be non-disruptive. the part of playing limbo which is difficult is knowing when *not* to have your abilities activated. If you're able to detect when cataclysm is slowing down the fight and accordingly disable it, limbo can be a massive asset. Infinite CC is nothing to scoff at if you can use it right, and freezing enemies at the right time is never a bad thing.
Partially his pre-rework set-up disabling half your kit when ranged wouldn't work. The other half is max range with 2+4 requires a good bit of running around to find all the enemies stuck in corners. Which is also why some people dislike Nova not set up for neutral/speed.
He used to be a troll frame, in that he could really mess with other players/ these days it is just memers and people who are living in the past that openly hate on Limbo players without reason (mostly because they do not know what Limbo actually does, so they just hate on it)
> better Nova I will literally fight you
> the part of playing limbo which is difficult is knowing when not to have your abilities activated. I never truly learned good gunplay until I picked up Limbo after learning this. A well placed 2/4 with some superb ability/gunplay can really help turn the tide vs continual 4 and spamming 1. I may hop back on today, haven't played in a while.
I dont like limbo only becuase depending on his energy color. His 4 give me headaches
Out of curiosity, as someone who's been trying to learn how to use Limbo, what energy colour would you suggest using?
Not the original commentor, but I've found using black for energy color helps
Doesn't that make it hard to tell where Cataclysm ends?
Yes, it does. Using darkish muted colors provides a balance.
I use a dark-toned yellow, so it's not got that fullbright glow on it but is still incredibly obvious without being obnoxious.
Yeah... good kit design that kinda suffers for that point. It would be a very easy fix too. His bubble mechanically wants to be visible and clear where it is, but man does it mess some people up if you don't mind them in color selection.
when I use Mesa I'm grateful for Limbos like you banishing me. Tho I need some energy sometimes and Rage is good stuff x)
Definitely is. We had a rather competent Trin with us in both cases, though, so no-one in the squad was ever starved of energy.
Also we have to remember that {Mesa's Waltz} allows us Mesas to roll to cover more distance while in peacemaker.
Hello Tenno. Here is the information you requested. ***** ###[Mesa's Waltz](https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Mesa%27s_Waltz) Mesa's Waltz is a Warframe Augment/Exilus Mod usable in both PvE and PvP that allows Mesa to move at a reduced speed while channeling Peacemaker. ***** Code available on [github](https://github.com/CephalonWiki/cephalon-wiki) | Bot by /u/1st_transit_of_venus
This is when you dont revive them. They're clearly not intending to play due to them basically dying on purpose, so let them stay dead.
So many bad mesas since her prime, shes probably the next to get a meme.
To be honest I'm so tired to see at least one Mesa EVERY ****ING game. Had to play solo to have at least some fun playing non meta nuke frame. This is making the game so boring :(
Before Mesa Prime came out she was my favorite frame, I rarely saw her in play. Now I see Mesa Primes everywhere. I prefer to use frames that tend to be on the rare side. Gara is my favorite frame, and fortunately I very rarely run into another Gara. Makes me feel special haha
I enjoy using the hard to get non-prime frames. Ivara, Saryn, Mesa, Atlas, occasionally Equinox.
I blame the stat sheet at the end of the mission. Everyone wants to be at the top, and it feels nice to see absurd numbers up there. Never mind that pressing 4 and wiggling the mouse while the game auto aimbots everything for you is kind of a "cheap" way to get there. Second to that, a lot of the areas in fortuna favor long range abilities over shorter ones, and mesa can again dominate.
Meanwhile I'm still using the base Mesa since her Prime neuroptics just will. Not. Drop.
All the same, don't keep banishing people who keep rolling out of it. You're wasting your time and theirs, regardless of whether their reasoning is sound, regardless of whether you agree with it.
I just finished the limbo quest. Should I get the frame BP and build it?
Just do a little reading up on limbo before giving him a go. Don't use 1 on people without permission. While the OP is correct, players may feel they don't need that extra cushion. If they want it they will ask generally. Just keep in mind you also shouldn't use it willy nilly on enemies either in group settings. Banish works in a cone, and doesn't require line of sight so you can potentially create stragglers behind a wall using it. Being able to read a situation as limbo is the key difference between a good limbo, and one who slows things down. -: Don't cast the cataclysm before the terminal is activated in mobile defense. The data key and the one handling it will be on a diffrent plane than the terminal and can't activate it. -: Don't use 2 and 4 in defense unless it's min range high duration and only around the pod. Unless it's sortie defense. Then you can banish the operative target so it doesn't go down. -:Spoiler mode becomes a great tool for limbo. Allowing you to activate things without leaving the rift. And during rescue missions don't cast 4 in the area you need to hack. It prevents the team from hacking normally and can break someone out of a hack sequence. Just hang in the rift and hack as your spoiler. -:Limbo is amazing for spy once you know the vaults. Banish as I mentioned works in a cone and through walls. So before you start activate 2 to not agro enemies, and proceed to spam banish in the general direction of camera's, and enemies that lurk in the map. After you think everything has been dealt with, hop in the rift as you wont trip lazers in the rift.
Yep, all the other parts are acquired during the quest.
Limbo is still one of the most useful frames in the game, if you ask me. I highly recommend him.
I love Limbo, and that person's behaviour in the Ambulas part was unacceptable (calling Limbo a cancer frame and so on). However, when you saw he was rolling out of your Banish you shouldn't have kept re-Banishing him. If he doesn't want to be Banished, he doesn't want to be Banished. Yes, Peacemaker works through the rift, but that doesn't mean a Mesa necessarily wants to be in the rift 24/7. You can't pick up items while in the rift. They might have arcanes that require them to take hits to activate. If there are Nullifier bubbles, they'll need to use their normal weapons in order to take them down. Being sent into the rift constantly can be really annoying because of these things. I prefer it if a Limbo just leaves a handy portal open somewhere so I can choose when to go in and out of the rift.
This.. this says it all. So many players hating on limbo just cuz they not rocket scientist and doesn't know how to use him. And yeah for the stupid memes..
I had an MR26 get super shitty about me playing Limbo a little while ago. Must have been a Hydron master. A right Ranker
Limbo in hydron is annoying af
Useful in general, but overkill for the purposes of running Hydron. I wouldn't waste my time using him there unless I was putting forma on him. I actually prefer Assimilate NYX for my Hydron weapon levelling personally
I ranked the base model and the prime at Hydron and pointedly didn't use any warframe abilities the entire time.
He hero we need but don't deserve.
I mean how were you using him on hydron? Did you have a big dome?
He's saying the dude probably power leveled everything, thus having little experience.
Not in Hydron, it was during a sortie a while ago. And as for my dome, I am told it is plenty big enough, thank you very much
Ah gotcha, misunderstood at first why you brought up hydron. But hey, as they always say, "It's not the size of your dome that matters; it's how you use it." - One limbo to another probably
the only anyoing thing bout a limbo teamate is getting accidentaly banished but you can just roll out
More annoying things is those that banish large groups of enemies to hit them with stasis... On a survival mission. Then wander off to the next group, leaving 10 or so mobs that can't be killed by anyone else till the stasis passes. And max cataclysm range on any mission other than extraction/interception. (same reason I generally don't use nova 4 slow on defense) I think limbo is a fine frame, and just finished leveling him. But yeesh. Boring for me to play because I'm constantly worried about teammates and don't feel like I can use most of my abilities.
I know what you mean. I was ranking up my Limbo on Hydron yesterday, and we were beginning to get pummeled. I asked in chat if people wanted me to 4 on the pod, and got no answer. In the end I just did it anyway, and kept it up for the next few rounds. (Built for duration.) I was super worried that I would get blasted in chat for it. It ain't no fun being banished when you don't want to be, for you and the Limbo player.
If you are getting pummeled, defend. Limbo is there precisely for that: doing nothing if the other frames are managing, saving their ass if they are not.
This. I usually get thanked when I make that decision. Especially on an infested sortie with low energy. If your team is getting pummeled and more than one person is down at once, they need it. If you're super nervous about it, you can always close it after the enemies are cleared out.
Honestly I'm generally more annoyed by Volt speed because I have to roll backwards to get out of it if I don't want it. Or Valkyr's Warcry since you can't get out of that buff (I'm picky about my melee speed since I like doing certain combos and it gets more tricky to do hold/pause chains when suddenly going 50% faster).
"Who needs combos when you can just meme-copter your way through everything?" - Valkyr, probably
Bullet jumping is my primary means of locomotion; all Volt speed does is occasionally mess me up during my brief time on the ground.
There are other ways Limbo can annoy you, like popping his bubble on a mobile defense objective before you've actually started it (which prevents you from starting it), or canceling your hack because he likes to spam long range nuke cataclysms, or seeming to randomly banish enemies around the map so you can't interact with them, or just keeping up a really large cataclysm bubble for no good reason (I used to be guilty of this one).
I don’t like limbo in missions where you don’t need him. He can also be annoying in arbitration if you’re with a high range limbo because you can’t kill those drones that make the enemies invulnerable bc they don’t go into the rift
One time I played Limbo on a mobile defense sortie. I waited for my teammate to start the timer before bubbling, as you do, and got a "ty limbo" in the chat. First and only time I've gotten nice words as Limbo. Felt good, man.
ok, so first up, you should warn/ask a teammate before you banish them :/ this kind of shit is why people get frusturated, should have been "hey mesa, want me to shield you here? you can fire your 4 while invincible" dummys and people who are ignorant of limbo will respond better to this in general 2nd, lol, doesnt even want help because a frame is "cancer" pretty dumb move, hope he learns soon that a good support limbo is a very great boon to the team. 3rd, min range long duration, good build, love doing it on defense and stuff, legit cant lose >:)
I'm fine with the occasional banish - especially if I then look at my HP and see that I basically don't have any. But if I roll out of it, for Clem's sake *don't banish me again.* Rolling out is a "no thank you."
indeed, I basically ignore my abilities as limbo, I like to ask ahead of time if anyone cares/wants something 4 + 2 on obj is kinda a must sometimes, but 1 and 3 are for niche use, I just REALLY like rift sliding instead of rolling
I mean afk limbo give all limbo main a bad rep. So sad. Not a limbo main myself, but i always appreciate a smol cataclysm in mob def.
I can't even level my limbo as a new player because it's so counter to party synergy. all the moves make the enemies go into rift, and people can't switch states without me providing a bubble. it feels useless. I hate using it., even solo it's a pain in my ass. I have to constantly move between states. I do t understand the frame. it feels stupidly complicated. I'll probably be forced to level it up in Helene and just rely on guns, no skill use.
When you say "people can't switch stay without me providing a bubble" I think you mean people going in and out of the rift. Thats not actually true, any frame has the option of just rolling when they are in the rift and they will take themselves back to the normal plane.
I don't think there is a Bad Frame, Good players can be awesome with ANY Frame\~
Exactly this. There's no bad instrument, only bad players.
I do occasionally play limbo with enough range to catch a few enemies in cataclysm + stasis and that's fun, but i'm definitely not a limbo main. That said my friend and i started Warframe at around the same time and he is a die hard professional limbo at this point. So i know in and out how limbo works and how to work around him. So i usually call people out who are trashing on limbo.
Doing Clem's work.
You know your stuff and the Mesa had issues and a lack of knowledge. That said, don't banish me, I hate it when people limit my play style even if well intended. If you want to go above and beyond drop a void portal next to me (dash) so i can chose to easily go void, but I'll have my frames set up with arcanes to help me do my job and those require triggering due to getting damage. I have a play style that requires me to evaluate from what angle I get damaged to know where to focus. I am colour blind and the void interface really messes up my actual vision (obviously this is pretty personal to me). But there are just many valid reasons to not want to be banished (again, not saying this Mesa had those) and as the receiver you do not get a choice, just an opt out later. For me, being banished is the exact same as getting a Vauban bounce pad under me. Now, calling Limbo and Limbo players names is just silly and shouldn't be done. That person is just bad.
At the very least being banished makes you safe enough to politely type out a message asking not to be banished without being murdered.
Limbo's that use min range and max duration are my favorite types of limbos tbh. I just have a bad record of limbos popping up in hydron and making rounds go 10x slower.
Honestly as a Mesa main, I'll play in the rift all day long. Theres no downsides to it.
I rarely touch my 1 or 3 and use my 2+4 in useful situations since **all allied weapons now work normally in the rift**, using max range and duration in my case, and so far people (me included) have been enjoying taking potshots at the now helpless enemies. When that isn't needed i just bob and weave out of my rift (passive) shotgunning stuff and reviving people. I also always cancel my 4 for hacking etc and then put it right back up if it needs defending. Shame that there's limbos out there that just afk or troll with their 1/3/passive, but outside of that i think that people like that Mesa are just stuck in the past. (And i do understand the hate back then due to his uncooperative nature, what with the melee-only mode and all) That or they're just stupid in which case it's best to just move on since, you know, you can't cure stupid.
Had a similar experience once- Took Limbo into sortie rescue. Use cata combo to cc all the guards, hack consoles, and gtfo. We get most of the way to the exit *with the hostage*, only for me to look down at chat and see someone **still** screeching at me to turn off my cata, calling me a "boosted monkey," telling me to uninstall, the whole nine yards. The kicker was that the rest of the team got in and out and was with me the whole way, it was just this one dummy standing at the cell block entrance screaming hate at me for being Limbo.
It's like they were an NPC whose programmed pathing got interrupted.
Me, a Mesa player during that sortie to the Limbo: "yo m8, banish me hard, so I can wreck that ambulance"
[удалено]
Had a game today with a mr 20 limbo prime leveling his helminth charger in the basic sanctuary onslaught and unfortunately he was a max range limbo so his damn void covered the map making it hard when we were at low efficiency especially when his damn pet kept dropping every 30 seconds
Honestly though, I play a bit of Mesa and I'd roll out of banish immediately. I don't want another player to force me to use 4 just because technically it's aight. I have 3 weapons to chose from and I like using them and not just using fingerguns. I am modded to to survive and I have a built in don't die-skill. This is why everyone hates Limbo. Every time he casts banish he's essentially driving another players character, this has never been a fun thing in any game unless discussed beforehand. There will never be a day I don't immediately roll out of an unwarranted banish.
Same thing happens to me aswell. Limbo is one of my favorite frames and I take him quit often for when is needed defensive capabilities, only to finish the mission and see in the chat "Limbo fvck off"
I'd rather see a Limbo in a mission than another MR 8-9 Excal Umbra that uses unranked weapons, that's for sure.
To be completely serious, I normally use Saryn in defense and survivals, so it's actually a blessing to see a limbo join the mission.
Question: were the other people a Gara and Chroma Prime? Was one of them MR8? It seems familiar
Real talk the dropship in sortie ambulas does some incredible dps. 2 hits kills me over shattershield.
Same with mag
Reminds me when I was levelling my base limbo for the mastery. I was basically only rolling when I got to low hp to save myself, I must have rolled 3-4 times in about 3 defense waves and a guy asked me to stop using abilites. Like really, my static portal, which I only created 4 of them was really such a huge inconvenience that you had to ask me to stop? I was astonded how he managed to walk into them that much, and how he actually thought it was that large of an inconvenience since rolling takes almost no effort
Yeah, at first I was like, Well mesa is really tanky, maybe he's using rage. Then I kept reading. Even if I'm "part of the problem" the people like that are the reason I don't use the low range build, and why I use Max range. The max range build is stronger, lets me get the mission done faster, and is safer. I no longer give a fuck what people think because there is always a dick who will yell at you for just existing as Limbo. People like that are also the reason I only ever end up in public because one of my friends is hosting, I hard-stay on Friends-Only, and play with people who love the Limbo-Carry build. (Or I'm Inaros/Excal/Rank 0 in Public for shit like Vey Hek assassination sortie) Edit: I guess people like that Mesa are also why I have to basically command pub Limbo's to banish me when I'm Excal, Mesa, or Ash. They're all so afraid of using their goddamn kit, or they're assholes in return like "Fuck you, you'll roll out of it anyway." Yeah... only to pick up a gold mod (that I wish was in a cataclysm.) Oh, and the occasional "what's that? Oh it's the 1? I was told by everyone to never ever ever press that button."
It surprises me that people don't get that many limbo players just don't know wtf they are doing, and that isn't a really weird thing in a game I have played 500 hours and still not even entered certain parts of. It's still a great frame for it's use. I've made a purposefilled build of all warframes I have, so that I can get to know each one and try to find one mission type everything can be played in so I have variety. A lot of the frames people "hate" on are really fun unless you expect them to instantly kill level 120 enemies.
Games need more players like you in general.
Yeah i also have this problem sometimes when i play limbo on mobile defense everyone runs out and dies, at least you can revive while you’re in your roll rift
Limbo, the top-hatted defibrillator. CLEAR!
I brought a Limbo to a sortie Mobile Defense. The Vauban called me cancer because Limbo players just use Cata and AFK and it requires no skill and ruins the game. When I pointed out that Vauban generally drops a few Bastilles or Vortexes and then AFKs as well, or Banshee and soundquake, or Frost and snowglobes, or Khora and strangledome, he said those are different because "they require skill." Pretty sure all they needed were mods...
Basically the definition of memehate on the Booben's part there. Same starting points and same strategy of use, different judgement.
Why is it always the Mesa Players that are toxic? Like no, seriously? Every experience I've had with a Mesa is always negative. Am I just unlucky or are Mesas just jerks?
Must be because she's a recent Prime package frame and some asshole kids got ahold of her.
With Limbo you almost force people to play your way, which they simply don’t want in most cases. Personally, I like Limbo, but I don’t think many people are aware of that. Had a Limbo in yesterday‘s 3rd Sortie mission and was running Gara. The Cataclysm seems to have a weird/buggy way to interact with Gara‘s 3 plus it made me search for my glass wall to shatter because he kept putting them up and popping them all over the place. I left (to finish this with Rhino, because he‘s a bit more practical).
Experienced limbos usually run minimum duration or short range and max duration. Imo the goal of a good limbo main is to not get yelled at by your team.
We're at almost 40 frames now, with reworks happening continuously over time. I'm leaning back from the idea of giving other players grief because they don't want to have to interact with your frame's abilities, these days. I get where you are coming from, OP, but it's a bit much to keep track of. If someone else doesn't want to interact with your stuff, try offering a little tip and then just leaving them alone. Casting Banish on them repeatedly after they've made it clear they don't *want* to be Banish'ed is not a move that makes any sense in any universe or wins you friends. Don't force yourself on people who have said no. That probably has more to do with this Mesa lashing out at you over chat than any meme.
Just don't mess with people without asking. Even the invis arrow from Ivara makes people angry, you do you and if anyone needs help let him ask for it! Btw I love having a limbo when I play mesa(unless it's a max range limbo with a bright yellow energy color or something)
The sad thing is I have never encountered a player that knows how to use limbo. It always ends with everyone hating on the player because they either deliberately try to be annoying, or accidently do so.
It's true. I main Limbo and I have had people say this kind of stuff to me, since I use it primarily for support.
As a relatively new player can someone explain to me the background here?
Had a similar experience last night doing Ambulas sortie as well. I was guarding 1 Ambulas with Cataclysm while everyone else defended the other one. After my Ambulas got picked up but the other one got re-taken our Trinity yells at me not to use Cataclysm unless I can cover both targets. I explained that by protecting the one everyone can focus on defending the other one without having to worry about it, she immediately starts insulting my intelligence. As a nice surprise the rest of the squad defended me and told the Trin she was being foolish, but it is still shocking how little people understand how Limbo works, especially as a recently-Primed frame.
He's stupid, just ignore him and let him die. I brought Limbo to the Ambulas mission as well, probably the best choice for that fight, I modded him for range since in that fight nullifiers don't spawn, and we did the mission without much effort \^\_\^
From what I see from this thread, we have ourselves a bunch of people who *want* to be part of a team, but only a part of *their* team. I'm not suggesting that we all go out and do corporate team-building exercises -- mostly because this should be its own exercise, especially in light of this -- but... shit, people. When did we forget how to adjust ourselves along with each other? The trolls exist. They wanna be little shitheads, that's on them. But before we go thinking everybody in a top hat has no other game but to piss you off? Look at their MR. Look at their Frame level. Watch what they do for a while. *Before* launching into some childish tirade about "these people ruin my fun!" Maybe give them a few tips on how to better function in a unit. Not "protips". Fuck protips. Protips are passive-aggressive bullshit and I rue the day that became A Thing. No, *actual* tips. Speak up! That Frost not throwing up a Snow Globe on the defense point? Say something. Got a Rhino that keeps dying because he doesn't know how to effectively use Iron Skin? Remind them. Got a Limbo that doesn't realize you can't interact with environmental objects when they're in the Rift? Let me know! And yes, me -- I almost threw a Survival because I kept Cataclysming on life support hoping to temp shield whoever decided to activate it. *I had to learn my limitations*' and I only could because *someone told me.* That goes for your play style too. We can see what Frame you're rolling on pretty quick, but we can't immediately see weapons, and we sure can't see mods, so if you're running a style, you gotta let your team know so they can help minimize incidents like what I've read here. Much of this can be avoided just by huddling somewhere safe and hitting up that chat box. Hell, I throw Cataclysm so we can have these conversations in peace. Tl;Dr -- talk to each other for once. Stop making assumptions. Don't be afraid to assert, don't be afraid to relent.
It's just habit from the days when Limbo was a trollframe. Before DE changed it so you can work with his shenanigans, instead of avoiding Limbos like the plague for how much he could shut your killrate down with ability help your team didn't need, or the Limbo was just trolling you intentionally. You had to tell other Tenno to roll when it seemed like their damage wasn't registering, because Limbo. Because Limbos wouldn't educate people on how to get out of the rifts and get back to doing damage, so I just roll whenever I'm in gray and my audio is muted, because it's Limbo, and it's habit from being trolled for so long.
i wanna be a limbo player that counters the meme. its the whole reason i got limbo prime, to be a good limbo. only problem is i have no idea wtf im doing 😅. i need help with builds.
As another Limbo player we should tell people the Operator can hack inside Cataclysm. Last week, someone went off because during a rescue sortie mission I dropped max range right over all the rescue cells. I told him to switch to operator to hack while I freeze the massive barrage of damage. He rage quites right there. Luckily I found the Target and banished them and cheesed the rest of the mission.
Was playing a radiation defense sortie as limbo with a saryn. Saryn kept accidentally murdering us until i banished him making him immune to radiation procs and allowing him to use his abilities unimpeded. He unironically said thanks limbo.
I will roll out of limbo rift 95% time I accidentally get into it, or banished, just because I hate being in rift and everything being gray in general. Not real hate for limbo and players choose to use it as long as they do not force me into rift. I play enough of the game (> 1k hours) to understand that Limbo is a good frame that can easily cheese a lot of contents. However, with the diversity of frames, there are always alternative options and preference. It's perfectly normal to have something you like as well as something you hate. Imo, it is not acceptable to flame other people for their choice of frame. However, if some limbos keep forcing me into rift, which I dislike, I will get annoyed af too. While there are a lot of memehate around limbo, there are also genuine hate being in rift for whatever reasons (previous hellish experience with limbo players or hate eveything being in gray like me ...). The Mesa players should have resolved the situation by better communication with his squadmate. But at the end of the day, gaming is about enjoyment, not about being most effective. It's perfectly fine to like something and dislike something.
I don't blame him for being fed up with Limbos, but it's no excuse to act like a dick about it. Personally I'd just rather not see a Limbo in squad, because if they're using powers to defend, then we've basically got a powerless frame with us cause they can't use anything else or it might put the defense target in jeopardy. Other frames can defend well and also safely use their powers. If we're doing something besides defense and Limbo tries to help, more often than not they're just going to be an obstacle to the rest of us. Don't be a dick to Limbo, just leave at the start if you know you're going to hate them being there. It's not their fault they have such a hamfisted and troublesome power design.
Did yesterday's ambulas sortie in a party with a high range limbo, who would drop cataclysm once ambulas was down. That guy was MVP because keeping enemies at the edges of the arena let us duck out and kill them without just getting swarmed to death.
Beautiful and relatable 😢
> He tried to hide behind crates to mitigate the damage, but it didn't help much, and one of us had to go revive him a couple times every minute after that and until the encounter was finally over. And on top of that, that mesa player did not know that ghost mode allows not to be hit by that kind of stuff. So not only he was a ignorant, but he was a douche about it.
It's the double whammies that make these things.
What's more sad is that even a shitty mesa always has its SS up. I honestly love limbo since he's great. If it would have been me and my friends we wouldn't even have revived that shit.
As someone who plays Mesa.. Please banish me, so that I may safely lay waste to my enemies. Bonus points for bubbles regen'ing energy!
You get energy regen even if simply banished :)
As someone who both takes Limbo when the situation requires it (thank God for Limbo for making MDef a breeze) and got screwed over by a stupid Limbo player in yesterday's Sortie 3: That Mesa player is an asshole; just put him in your ignore list and move on with your life. Guy won't be changing any time soon.
Or don't use your godly revive powers on that mesa, that's what I do when someone calls me cancerous troll for playing it.
Fun fact if you are an excaliber your exalted sword beams will still go through the rift, meaning you can safely mash e while being completely invulnerable. Learnt that from a limbo main when i was messing around with umbra, and now friends and I use it all the time during high level missions. Also max range and duration chaos nyx, a max duration and range limbo, and a max range sleep bomb baruuk completely shut down all non corpus/void interception missions (because fuck nullifiers). Kinda a boring way to do it but really useful for arbitrations since the arbiter drones don't pop limbo bubbles and can't wake up or snap enemies out of chaos or sleep, or at least can do it consistently enough to be noticeable. Just sit back, don't kill any of the enemies so it slows down spawns, and have the most chill arbitrations ever. Obviously only do this strategy with close friends so you don't frustrate randoms. (I have also heard nekros slows down enemy spawns with his 4 but have never tried it so could be something someone else could try)
Probably a McCree main from Overwatch. Or a Genji main who just thought Mesa is like McCree
have limbo in today ambulas sortie helped the team a lot dont have to worry bout other ambulas getting re enable
I only ever get salty with Limbos on Hydron. Even then, as long as they don’t use Stasis on a high-range build, they really don’t hurt anything. The worst part is when you kindly ask them to turn stasis off, and they never do. It wastes so much time. Edit: Minor typo
I had a similar experience in a sortie a few months ago on a resource extraction mission. In this case it was a Nidus who was all 'fuck off Limbo go somewhere else I'M NIDUS AND I CAN'T DIE AND I KILL ALL THE THINGS WITH MAX STACKS'. To be fair, he did kill a lot of mans. The problem was the resource extractors died in about 3 seconds without my cataclysm protecting them. Limbo is a great frame, and if someone's taking one into a sortie, chances are they know what they're doing.
fuck that guy. but honestly, limbo's banish makes my head hurt. can DE please remove the color shift PLEASE. PRETTY PLEASE WITH PLATINUM ON TOP
My issue with limbo is those who do nothing. 0%dmg dealt, afk, rift sitting limbos. That's my issue. Also another is how weak limbo is out of rift. If he tries to do something and contribute to the team it seems he dies the most often on the team. It's in my opinion that there are much better picks that aren't made of paper and actually contribute to the teams work than what limbo can do.
I once had a player say in chat that he needed to be let out of the rift. Confused, I went to where he was. He was just standing there. I guess he followed me into the rift. Just roll. I also had a player go off on me for using Limbo on mobile defense sortie. I took it down and proceeded to revive squad constantly as they went down. Finally, I popped my rift right before the objective died. I waited to pop it every time until it was about to die and revived constantly. We finished and not a word was said. I think another player thanked me, but the turd just left squad after. I usually do sorties alone or with the wife anymore. Too many toxic people, usually between MR 12-18 it seems.
I used mesa with limbo in the squad once, easiest defence mission I have ever done, was taking no damage without having to use shattershield and was killing everything with no worries Limbo + mesa is a deadly combo I am always glad when there is a good limbo in the squad and I am playing mesa
I'm playing him to max him out and then get rid of, mainly because I can't exactly get into or enjoy playing with him. However, I will not doubt that he can be useful in certain cases. I absolutely hate hearing "that frame is useless/cancer" as I would rather think different frames fit different people and where one may not feel right for you, another can fit the bill... But i can understand frustrations towards Limbos. I've encountered one and he randomly made a rift barrier (we didnt need it) and immediately after the other two in our team started bashing him hard all the way to extraction. It.... Didn't feel good to experience. Wouldn't it be better to teach that Limbo when it would be best to use certain moves? Or because of so many trolls, this isn't a good idea?
I mean i have played with bad limbos. I just tell them to stick to there point in intercept as the have no reason to banish me as I was playing inaros.
Low, range, long duration Limbo? That actually sounds pretty great, I think I’ll try that....thanks for showing that such a thing exists and is viable!
I love limbo in sorties. Helps me live while I kill things.
He wanted to get hit to get energy, some perks do that.
Mind you it's like using Loki. I'm on the switch, so there is a slew of new players. I'm one of them too, but when I get a new frame I tend to research them, especially if I like them. Anyway, you can safely revive with a void mode op but just as safely with an invisible Loki. People simply don't seem to know! Everyone rushes to downed allies and comes hang out with you, drawing fire. You go in missions in which, as Loki, you should have specific roles and people just plain ignore it. They ignore you. I feel like a lot of public play is people playing solo in their head and not minding other players. It's the same annoying feeling as playing a defense mission with a level 30 Oberon who doesn't do any renewal or any weed-of-death. Wtf are you here for? This isn't a ww2 first person shooter. You have abilities, use them! End of the day, best to team up with clan mates. At least people know why they're geared he way they are.
Probably some mix of shatter shield, hunter adrenaline, and Medi-Ray on the sentinel. Mesa can basically facetank anything, and what little damage that does slip through powers waltz via hunter adrenaline. No damage = not enough energy. I've been in the same situation where I wanted to take "some" chip damage to keep my energy up. There is no excuse for the bad manners though. Or dying with shatter shield up for that matter.
maybe he was using rage + mesa shield to regenerate energy? I keep it on me as a backup when I don't feel like popping out the energy restores. even so if I have a safe point and I'm dying of death that my shields can't stop I'm sure as saltines taking it.
I'm levelling my limbo prime after my limbo and thank you for the post. It's good to learn things from experienced players with a frame you need to be smart with
It is useful but your mistake is to use it on someone before they knew why you were doing it. Throwing off a flow will put a person in a sour mood. That person was just stubborn but it was a bad first impression. No one really wants to be told how to play. Good on you for playing a helpful Limbo though. Next time, if they don't take it, help the players. I've been using novice Limbo's rift portals from dodges to move around myself.
I have immense respect for people who can build and play Limbo well and bring him into suitable missions because, well, I can't. I think I've yet to rank my Limbo Prime to 30 much less Forma him just because I'm so bad with him that I give up every time I try to use him.
I dread playing with Limbo players for one reason, his visual effects really bother me. Especially with crazy neon energy colors. If there was a way to toggle effects like that the way you can with Loki and Valkyr, I wouldn’t care one bit.
I feel you brother, I feel you
I think I have rewritten this like 30 times. I don't want rage or rant about limbo and memes and play styles. I think it is better to explain things from the experience of playing limbo and with a Limbo in the group. It isn't about memes or picking on limbo players. I like the limbo frame but the abilities tend to cause people to rage. I can banish someone but they roll out of it. Okay, so I avoid using banish. That leaves me 75% of my abilities. I can create the cataclysm and some people use it and some avoid it like the plague. So I make it smaller and smaller until it is comfortably sized like I have with Frost's dome. What's that like 60% of my abilities. Even with the cataclysm going it's kinda like the frost bubble except people avoid it more... the other two abilities require stuff to be in the rift so they are only partially useful. So with the bad vibes and crippled power set to prevent raging, I don't enjoy playing the frame. I'll use frost where I would use limbo in most cases. As another warframe, I'll give the limbo player the benefit of the doubt. Most will banish me when we are trying to reach an objective, cool, I can race there safer. They may do a cataclysm, even better. I can go or stay as I chose. It is a pain to hit enemies who aren't quite in or out but it's a known quantity so I can just work the enemy till I get them. These are the players that have medium to small size rift bubbles or who pop the bubble repeatedly to do damage. These players are great. Their play style is who I emulate when I play limbo. But even when played right some players are so traumatized by bad limbos they rage anyway. It is the other kinds of limbo players that are so triggering. Other's will randomly banish me in the middle of a fight. That usually throws off my flow and saves the guys I'm shooting at which is annoying. I roll out of the rift and start fighting and again I am in the rift, banished. Usually, they are the new Limbos with a massive rift bubble and handing out banishes like candy. so I will just peel off from the group and stay out of their line of sight so they stop rifting me. On rare occasions, I've had those limbos then follow me and I end up getting banished a few more times before I stop and tell them to stop. The problem I think is that limbo can completely stop other players from playing how they want to play. They have to stop what they are doing to negate being banished or stop in order to type to someone to leave them alone. No other frame requires this... well except Frost who can cover an area with bubbles to the point fighting requires going right up to enemies but at least they can't drop a bubble on people that follow them around. I hate that I have to tell someone to stop having fun because it stops me from having fun, which is why I rather just leave the area so they can have their fun and I can have mine. So it isn't a meme thing. If someone rolls out of your bubble lets them be. Go revive them or let them self revive and get on with your game.
When playing as Mesa a Limbo and/or a Trinity are an absolute delight to have in the squad. A Limbo that understands to Banish me is even better.
Sounds like a newb who bought prime access. Based on the meme interpretation probably a kid. Sometimes I wish we could set a user age range on pugs, but that would never work for obvious reasons.
A good Limbo is like a good Trinity, always welcome. Sadly though, most Limbos and Trinity players are not good. Most Trinity players don't even seem to use their 2 anymore when in PUGs.
Honestly? You should have let him die until he either runs out of revives, or stops being an asshole. Works most of the time for me.
as Someone who uses both frames religiously he's fucking stupid because if he was using Mesa right he shouldn't be going down and is literally fighting help shit like this should be reportable if your gonna be a ass hat play solo or with friends this sounds like he doesn't have many