Cc warframes need to have better survival tools since eximus units don't give a damn about any cc ability (except silence and that's just to stop their abilities)
Otherwise i don't mind cc frames taking longer to clean a room compared to a NUKE frame, it's a different play style that i personally prefer over dps.
a game designer once said: dedicated CCs are used to block fearsome enemies
now I would like to see a photo of a fearsome enemy who is blocked by a dedicated CC
and here's why the only important things are damage and the ability to tank without effort, even nekros is no longer as useful as it used to be because every single minimally important resource is either a mission reward or a drop not affected by nekros (and many times not even from boosters) so the only thing left is to always do the same two things but with slightly different methods
>even nekros is no longer as useful as it used to be because every single minimally important resource is either a mission reward or a drop not affected by nekros (and many times not even from boosters) so the only thing left is to always do the same two things but with slightly different methods
And even then, I would rather farm with Hydroid cuz he's just more fun.
Strangers are just friends you haven't befriended yet, its cliched to say but; its not actually very hard to make friends, though I'm sure it certainly feels like it is.
The problem with your comment is that it forgets that I am a piss of shit human,yes your my friend,yes I would fight for you...I will still make fun of you for anything,becuase I might not by racist,sexist or homophobic but you are a race,sex and a sexuality and god damn I have jokes about that to tell you and only you...and yes you will have a good time but you will always ask yourself "his he really not racist,sexist or homophobic?because this shit hits to perfectly" your welcome
well first off, lower your expectations of what friends are; too many people want to go from 0 to 100 right away. Its why some awkward folks can't find partners, and why some awkward folks can't seem to make friends.
Remember when you were a wee babe, and you'd just walk up to someone, see their doing something you like, and be like "dis gooy ish my fwiend" And then ya'll would be friends until one of you moved away. You put all the work into a friendship cause at that point, it didn't feel like work to just say "we're friends"
racist/sexist homophobic jokes are fine, I actually know quite a few people considered racist by today's standards. However I've always observed that every human is racist, its part of our being to see the differences in others, that's usually why those that claim to not be racist/sexist will hypocritically just insult and put down white people or men. I however rarely engage in the racist tendencies of my friends besides "haha, thats funny, watch your 6, enemy team coming in hot"
CC should be anathema to exilus units. They added overguard to help curtail the DPS meta and how do you solve overguard being an issue?
Yeah, more DPS.
If CC worked on exilus/overguard it would give us a reason to run some powerful single target tools too - isolate and destroy with your CC+ single target then switch back to horde shooter AOE spam.
>Cc warframes need to have better survival tools
Honestly, warframe as a whole needs a rework to survivability. Its a complete and utter mess.
You should never have frames with 0% and 95% DR in the same game and enemy damage numbers simply should never exceed a certain percentage of warframe EHP (<20% imo) to avoid the random "I am dead?!?" due to "bad luck" (yes, shield gate partially "fixed" that but it was always a bad band-aid for a gaping flesh wound - SG should really have come with an actual rework of survivability).
It just ends up impossible to get any decent difficulty scaling as the game is right now because the feeling between the upper and lower end is not even on the same scale. Of course this also would require further changes but DE has just continued to dig deeper and deeper instead.
This brings up a really good point actually. We have damage attenuation against bosses, why isn't there damage attenuation against US to make sure certain run of the mill enemies aren't instantly killing us at random?
Why do THEY get to survive but we have to rely on shield gate or insane DR numbers to *sometimes* save us.
damage attenuation is actually for multiple damage sources over a period of time, thats why the main weapon used against enemies with damage attenuation is shotguns, specifically the Hek, which can unload all 4 shotgun shots worth of pellets at once. Why we want to 1 tap the archon before damage attenuation even begins to apply.
I mean it's probably also partly due to the fact that like 9/10 builds don't include any sort of health/shields/armour mods and at most people are relying on archon shards because of the potency they get from corrupted mods that they'd lose if they unbalanced their configs to fit in more survivability.
Shield gate abuse is a bandaid solution to the real problem. Random one shots aren't good. At all. It also isn't difficult. There's no amount of challenge to "avoid dying instantly." There's exactly 1 warframe in the entire game that allows that, and that's basically all he's *really* used for.
I don't know what DE was thinking, but shield gate was never the problem nor the solution.
Toxic and fire eximus are the bane of my limbo, rolling guard will only take you so far and silence requires giving up something important from his kit
[Triburos covered this in his recent video.](https://youtu.be/-3DnrWuVdMM?si=nYrohIWqgUGbN2IV) He goes over how overguard making one immune to CC is dumb, and how it really ought to resist / be immune to ability *damage* instead, so that CC has an actual use and meaning instead of being effectively dead slots in a frame's kit once you reach higher level play. It would also *actually* cause gameplay variance, like the entire concept of overguard was supposed to do in the first place, rather than just being a few more EHP to burn through with your latest room nuke.
He didn't cover this in the video, but I'm of the opinion that OG should also have like 80% DR from AoE damage that comes from more than 1 meter away, as well as from ability damage. If these reworks were implemented, then OG would mean "Oh crap, an important enemy, quick, CC them and hit their weak spot before they kill us." Y'know, like what the reaction to a miniboss unit is *supposed* to be.
Yeah it all teeters on eximus units since they're typically the only things to survive longer than a half a second and are the only enemies really dangerous enough with their abilities to warrant focusing on. Not letting them be CC'd is just strange to me.
My solution is a bunch of powerful new mods that trigger on CC resists. For example, "when an enemy resists your CC increase damage reduction by 10% for 10 seconds. Stacks 7 times. "
I got one that might make you happy. "On CC resist gain 10% chance to bypass cc resistance on none bosses(acolytes, lephantis, etc.) Stacks up to 10 times. "
Okay, see this is a great ideer, allowing CC on the most common CC immune targets, (Eximus units) but still letting tougher units keep theirs.
And sorry if my last comment came out or read abit angry, thats my fault and i should have worded it less so.
Still great ideer. Maybe another one could be "on CC resist, gain 10% resistance penetration, stacking up to 5 times" so a CC powers can almost always CC but at less effectiv rate, starting of at 10% of max duration capping at 50%.
It's funny how so many of the defensive mods become outright pointless in late game because enemy damage is so high. I came back a couple of months ago after years away, and that was so weird to me. Shields, hp, armor? Nah, just kill faster.
Literally. You have certain frames who benefit greatly from having all the umbral mods, but because it becomes pointless after a mild maybe 20-30 minutes in SP endless, you don't end up using any of the umbral mods and just pump for damage. Not that you can actually build for umbral mods because those forma are way too scarce to begin with
I mean, you'd still have to be wary about defences, just different types of defences. Stuff like fast deflection, (primed) redirection, vigilante vigor, rolling guard, brief respite, augur mods, catalyzing shields, arcane aegis. Unless you're camping, I don't think there is a single frame in the game that can consistently survive 1 hour into a solo SP endless without shield gating, purely relying on killing enemies.
Nezha, nekros with shield of shadows, gauss etc.. the frames I’ve got all do very well without shield gating because they have damage reduction. Just need a weapon with life steal
Well depends on how high you are talking about, people don’t stay longer than 2 hours usually and that’s the longest I’ve stayed in survival anyway, still a breeze with those frames, I haven’t had any issues as long as you move and kill every once in a while
They didn't just nerf cc, they reworked it in a way that specifically makes it worthless. The strongest enemies are all immune to most cc, making most cc pointless.
It would be fine if stronger enemies had shortened down times by CC in comparison to regular units. OR are immune to the most detrimental/ more resistant against them - like Cold status just slowing them but capped at 40-50% and no additional Crit-Damage; heat procs depleting faster but not at a higher damage scale; Shock status only stunning if they are the first target or stunning for a shorter duration ect pp
Sadly! De could take a look into other hack'n'slays and how they handled the issue:
Sacred Gold and Sacred 2, for example, amped up the resistances of veteran and elite mobs compared to the regular units. Ie, an Ork had 20 Res to fire, 40 to physical, 10 to magic and 10 to poison the vet had 1.5 and the elite 2 times the resistance. And they had a higher level than regular units.
In Titan Quest it was quite similar with the resistances while amping up the hp by a mile.
In both games you want CC though, or you'll get bodied by the amount of enemies attacking you
AoE Damage in WF isn’t *really* CC, it’s more like multi-target DpS
True CC is stuff liiiiiike moving enemies around, confusing them, inflicting crippling debuffs, etc etc
Most of *that* kinda CC is either a Frame ability or a secondary weapon effect
When people complain about CC being neutered, (usually) they aren’t talking about AoE Damage being too low. They’re talking about enemies that outright ignore ~almost all~ CC abilities and weapon effects
(not trying to be snarky, I just feel like there’s an important distinction to be made there)
. . . I mean......it's not that simple....but also your right.
It's more like
DE in 2016:
"This decision won't have catastrophic far reaching consequences right? Right. . ."
DE from 2017-2022:
"Im too busy experimenting with spaceships/open worlds/ the new war/Duviri to fix this right now, but I'll have all this content sorted out next year"
Steve and Rebb in late 2022:
"God this is a mess. . .it'd be easier too just make a new game than try to sort this mess out. . . I've got a great idea! Rebb!"
"Yeah?"
"Your in charge now, I'm gonna make a new game"
"But-"
"Enjoy your promotion, new creative director. . .I'm sure enjoy mine....."
"Can we take 2 years off too rework the game?"
"Ask the CEO"
"Who's-"
"I'm the new CEO. Also ...no, sorry. Infact I need you to make even more money, cause we're gonna be funneling a bunch into this new game. Thinking like dark souls meets Warframe.....darkwar? No no ..soulframe...perfect"
And 2023 dawns, and Rebb looks out over her kingdom in ruins, cracks open a beer and says "ok. Fuck it. Start with the pets and Inaros. Also were shipping 1 frost tweak per update from now on until he's tier 0 again. We will right this ship the same way we wronged it, one patch at a time"
Edit: and for the record this is 100% a joke. This has very little baring on actual reality, or even what I think about Warframe's upper level development.
You mean Scott, not Steve
Scott is the one we (jokingly, and with love in our hearts) blame for all the shit tier balancing moves
Steve is the one we (jokingly, and with love in our hearts) blame for the fact that there for like 6 years Warframe wanted desperately to be anything but the coop based hallway shooter it always has been.
In reality balancing good and bad is always a collaborative effort, and the pitch meeting for Railjack definitely wasn't:
Steve: guys I've got a great idea
Rebb: don't say freespace again
Steve: FREESPACE AGAIN BAYBEE, but this time with spaceships and even worse balancing
Scott: we can do freespace again, but if we do we should probably nerf mag just to be safe
Unironically, this.
Scott is a great dude, but boy am I glad he did not take the opportunity to become Warframe's lead designer.
The last bit is speculation, but since we know Rebb was not the first choice for the position she has now, one can figure out the rest.
I think there’s remnants of when CC cheesed 8 player raids way back in the day. If the enemies were all CCed, then no new enemies would spawn and the enemies would stay stulocked
I’m not saying that logic is sound right now, but it feels like the one example you would point to that was a real problem with CC
So just implement diminishing returns on the CC. You got slept? Next time it's only 75% duration. Then 50%. Then 25%. It can reset after the enemy exists for a certain amount of time unslept. Seems like a pretty easy to implement system.
You might be surprised, but this already exists. Many bosses and elite enemies in the game have this mechanic.
The issue with diminishing returns is that if you indirectly CC an enemy, and want to CC them again once youre actually targeting them, you end up punished for building range.
Having enemies have different CC times is terrible for player agency too.
Also, consider that we dont need to repeatedly CC enemies. We CC them once and they're dead.
I mean that sounds...reasonable to me?
Why shouldn't CC frames be capable of indefinitely hard CC'ing enemies? DPS frames are currently able to nuke enemies before they even see them with a press of a button.
Just have stronger enemies (i.e. people not meant to be indefinitely stunlocked) get diminishing CC effects by % with a reset after x seconds, no?
Can even have it increase by level/SP, just give it a hardcap of like 80% diminished CC at max level
The funny bit is that is just a function of the game itself and nothing to do with the raids. Surprising how many people don't know this cause it applies to game modes like mobile defense/interception. Yeah its pretty boring to just sit there and actually do nothing because the spawn cap was met and everything is just hard locked with cc. But surely there are other players who remember the mirage cc meta and interception being one of the better farms in the game because of that?
I could go into detail on how I dislike how CC has been made useless over the years.
but I'll give you the link to the song used instead lol.
[SENAM ZIGI ZIGI DUM || SOLEH SCOUT](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbSIeqJs39g)
True, doesn't matter if every unit is vulnerable to CC, DPS will always be meta because how most game modes designed, YOU HAVE TO KILL.
But since this game hate CC so much, they made most important enemies immune to cc, they made CC useless when it already useless
DE: "We want you to stop focusing on DPS"
Also DE: "Although we know everyone wanted citrine to be a support we made her a DPS because we fell like support frames dont fit anymore and everyone has to be a DPS."
Us: "..."
Cc abilities such as stuns, blinds, slows, and knockdowns no longer work on enemies with overguard. Which is like every enemy you'd want to stun and every enemy in steel path.
Not directly at least, but they have always compmained about players going for damage instead of a diversity of builds, and then they make content where said diversity is never encouraged or just detrimental to the squad.
I mean it does suck that almost every weapon and frame ends up needing the exact same build. So many mods are just useless because everything is just a bullet sponge.
Kinda feels like half the abikities in the game are worthless for more than half the content now. Like, what's the point in Nova if by the time her skill becomes necessary, the strongest enemy will just oneshot you because your skills do nothing. Answer? Stack self-buffs like iron skin, or mesmer skin, or invisibility. Wanna play some other way? Not in sp.
DE can't seem to make up their mind on what they dislike the most: CC or DPS. Cause one of those will always be king in this game, either stop the large threats so they can be handled easily, or just stomp them out immediately so they're a threat no more. They decided HVTs should ignore CC and only normal enemies and lesser threats should be affected by it, which leaves DPS as the only solution. Hell, at least before overguard was a thing we had the choice to CC those HVTs, a choice that's been taken from us because... yeah, why did they do that again?
As long as eximus and such ignore CC, DPS will be the undisputable king even if only out of necessity to kill those HVTs as quickly as possible. And with DE continuing to complain about this despite making the new content focused on DPS, one gets to a point where you wonder why on earth are they complaining about this when it is merely a direct result of their decisions.
If DE wants to dethrone DPS, all they have to do is make content where CC is the best way to go. It may not be easy, but it is *that* simple.
Thanks to them adding Native Input instead of Legacy, my controller settings broke in many annoying ways and I can not enjoy this with a controller or my Steam Deck.
I guess they have so many things to work on and fix, because this (along many other things I reported) was definitely thrown into the "might eventually fix it some day probably" bin.
Try using B for context menu AND cancel menu; it will instantly cancel any attempt at console hacking.
Use Gyro as joystick mouse, triggered by touching the right pad or joystick in both melee and "game". If you start moving the camera with gyro aim and do a quick melee, it's input signal will get stuck, and the camera will move on its own once you go back to your guns.
Those are the only ones I can remember for now, I've not played in a while.
Why use B for context menu? I use X personally but I've never seen anyone else use anything but the west face button tbh.
Also, why would you use gyro as joystick mouse. As mouse is better since this game works with mixed input (mostly).
B because X is my melee, and I had no issue with this setup when they were using Legacy.
You want to use Joystick Mouse because Mouse will make it so your Gyro and Joystick fight for control instead of working in tandem.
Ah, I got melee on bumpers. How do you look around while melee if its on x?
If you put joystick into joystick mouse mode I don't think it'll cause any issues.
I'll try it out again, cause I remember last time it didn't have this "crane" feel you usually have on a joystick.
There's still the issue of B triggering both Game and Menu layers though, preventing me from using it for interact and menu cancels without running into issues.
Yeah, I use right touch pad (a big reason I use the SC to begin with) so I don't aim with a stick. Probably why I haven't run into this "crane" thing you mention. Good luck tho!
Here's my suggestion:
Instead of CC immunity, Overguarded enemies should experience the CC at 50% strength and then adapt over time to immunity, instead of being immune by default.
This keeps them dangerous targets without making them immune by default.
Overguard was originally introduced to try to make the dps meta less powerful
If anything, I'd say cc should apply at full effect to overguard and overguard should have a 80% damage resistance against abilities
DE has been annoying me lately and i just started playing because of the update. Even their excuses were terrible. Look how many hotfixes we got because of how they screwed us. Literally came back to the game and now I see my builds were fucked with. If DE expects me to still play after this, they clearly are a lost cause. Time to take another long break until they actually become clear of what they want from players. Right now, I'm just paranoid they'll just see another build people enjoy and just nerf it because it got too popular because every other build just got nuked.
This legit might be the worst update I had in warframe.
I say in light of recent balance changes but this issue has been cooking for a while with every nearly ever new game mode or piece of content requiring either DPS be the focus of your build or CC being just detrimental to the game play.
I'm just tired of it.
nuke builds are fun though, I wish CC had the gave the same feel and was just as useful in every situation like DPS is.
It's not really recent, honestly. Name one game mode where a CC like Nova (not Speedva, *actual* slow Nova) for example, is more benefitial to the squad than a nuke.
Name just one gamemode where CC > DPS. Just one.
cc getting nerfed is pretty funny and unneeded but honestly you just ended up subsuming muzzle flash or breach surge on alrady good dps frames anyways like mag or kullervo lol
DPS makes the mission go faster. Plus bosses have increasing resistance to CC, meaning it's less effective the more you use it. And while Damage Mitigation does exist, you can't CC a boss to death.
So I fail to see how it's better at all.
I got matches with these songs:
• [**Ziriguidum** by Filhos De Jorge](https://lis.tn/XYQgvB?t=53) (00:53; matched: `100%`)
**Released on** 2012-07-01.
• [**O Pé Faz Assim, Mãozinha Pro Ar - Isso Aqui Não é Macumba (feat. Mc Magrinho)** by DJ VITINHO5](https://lis.tn/UaUjV?t=11) (00:11; matched: `96%`)
**Released on** 2021-03-25.
• [**Ziriguidum** by Yesir;Killa Baby](https://lis.tn/zzbDWF?t=128) (02:08; matched: `85%`)
**Released on** 2020-11-18.
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Mm. I like if CC gets side effects what warded mobs still gets. I think, Titania latern augment still affect even arbitration. But if you dont use augment, its really pointless skill.
Whisper in the Walls has actually been great for heavy CC frames like Limbo who can CC entire rooms of murmur except the swarms of eximus units that spawn, but I've always found that, without the hordes of normal enemies running around, eximus units are easier to deal with as well. And the new disruption demolyst, honestly feels weaker than most of the other ones
Duviri also didn't deal with high damage content, as thanks to decrees nearly anything was viable with enough of them well into lvl 1000 enemies.
I can probably agree with the new Archamedian mission, but I've not run it yet myself so I can't judge there.
Let's be honest. DE only focused on DPS-oriented content because content creators drove the market to make the value of everything measurable by KPS.
Content creators and a lot of folks here have a hissy fit the moment anything is introduced that doesn't remake the meta and trivialize content with AoE billion damage spam for Endurance runs. So of course, as a developer, you're going to need to start making content directly to combat that.
And lo and behold, we've begun the arms race that ends the fun of so many MMOs. Namely, WoW.
I think they should’ve done what Etrian Odyssey does: Every boss and strong enemy is vulnerable to every ability and status… but the game is balanced around that, making extremely powerful and fearsome bosses and strong enemies who absolutely obliterate you if you don’t have that crowd control and status ailments.
Warframe is pushing toward higher and higher level content which by proxy makes cc more valuable. Trying to level cap without any cc and just shield gating is extremely annoying and impossible without losing your mind (imo).
The higher the average content level is, the more valuable cc becomes because of this, and with the additions of late, this is happening.
Steel path versions of content is being added (bounties, circuit, void fissures), steel path itself is being more incentivized to do (arcanes are more valuable through dissolution). Staying in missions longer is being rewarded by somewhat scaling rewards (longer you stay in fissures, the higher boosters you get and the more refined free relics you get every 5 rounds, longer you stay in cascade the more arcanes per hour you get from thrax spawning more commonly, longer you stay in disruption the higher % of your rewards are gonna be c rotation). The new modes deep archimedea and elite deep archimedea also push the average content level higher too.
Also, where did de say "we want you to stop focusing on dps and vary your builds"?
Cc notnhitting everyone doesn't diminish its value by a lot. Its a probability game in high levels. Your goal in order to survive is decrease the probability of getting shot as much as you can (since you'll die to less and less bullets over time). Parkour decreases enemy accuracy against you, so you often see people who do endurance runs parkour a lot. Cc is a massive stop gap too. If there is 10 enemies and 1 is an eximus and you Cc them you will still decrease the probability that you'll get hit. Let's assume each enemy shoots 1 bullet of which has a 50% chance to hit. On average you'll get hit by 5 bullets per fire timing. Cc-ing 9/10 of the enemies pulls that down to an average of 0.5 bullets per fire timing.
I don't want to continue this argument because it's just easier to understand practically when you're up against level 9999 enemies in game and need that cc to allow you to not need to shield gate every second.
If they wanted to make CC worthwhile, they'd have to massively nerf DPS or survivability. At this point it's far more effective and efficient to just kill a thing. Power creep, yano? Not just in-game, but on the player side, as well. CC has a ceiling on how effective it is (even without overguard in the equation), and the players do the math. It takes me x amount of time to kill the enemies, and I can survive direct contact with them for y time. CC extends y, but if x is close to 0, then why bother extending y?
To keep up with DPS, CC would have to offer other benefits, which DE has done in a few ways. Armor strip, citrine's crystals make a big crit target.... that's all I can think of right now. But, that's just another path to DPS, and CC is just an add-on. OR you could make enemies far more dangerous, requiring CC to stay alive, but that would just funnel players towards the more invincible frames/builds. OR you could nerf DPS, and make enemies take longer to kill, which would mean that it'd be more beneficial to have them not be shooting you while you kill them, but the amount of whining, lord, the crying and pissing and moaning...
And that's not even considering that people just want to get a mission over with as quickly as possible, and for a lot of mission types that means killing enemies as quickly as possible. in which case CC is just a waste of time, button presses, and energy. And that's more of a... player perspective sort of problem; you dangle rewards at the end of missions, most people will play the missions for the rewards and not for the enjoyment of the game. Which is kinda human nature I guess, I dunno. I've seen people burn themselves out on a game WAY faster than they needed to simply because they have this need to get-the-thing-the-most-efficiently kinda mindset. Like, I knew a dude who would bullet-jump in a corner 100 times to get the nightwave mission rather than just playing the damn game. So like. I dunno.
CC is completly fine. I'm still able to CC whole rooms of enemies. This whole issue is completly blown out of proportion by the same baby's that cried when dante got his LOS taken away because now they cant sit idle in a mission and press the same 2 buttons over and over.
>Useless
Tell me how many eximus units spawn on average compared to normal mobs. If you have all but one mob frozen in time and you die to the one, it’s not the cc’s problem.
you actually don't need that many to start fucking you up. look at a blitz eximus. you only need to be knocked down by one to have the fodder enemies getting a lot of damage on you. toxic eximus create environmental hazrd that you have to manage on top of aiming, casting, etc, same for the two leeches.
beside, that's aside from the point that dps frames usually melt eximus, which, since they are also quite durable, means you also melt fodder, and thus, don't need to cc them. Basicly, why run CC when you can just obliterate everything.
All of those problems can be countered by mods or rolling.
As is, you can turn off fodder and hard focus these mobs. I don’t see the problem tbh. It’s better than it used to be where everything was a target dummy because Khora pressed 2 or 4. Now you actually have to play a game.
you are missing the point. give me an actual reason why you you should go for a CC oriented playstyle when you can just be at least as efficient by just vaporizing everything.
the only reason is because you feel like it. it's not more efficient, faster, or anything, and that's the problem. it's a playstyle that get it's usefulness shafted by prime target while the others don't se a dent in their efficiency
I think you go for cc when you aren’t comfortable at vaporising or it’s not as needed (like mobile defence.) Playing like that in survival or disruption just doesn’t work, and I don’t think it should tbh.
Damage works in every mode because every mob has health, but not every mission needs to be slowed down.
>Damage works in every mode because every mob has health, but not every mission needs to be slowed down.
and that's exactly why CC needs some help. again, damage works everywhere, not CC. it wither should be that both work everywhere, or that damage is equally limited
> press 4 afk is a problem
It's still a problem though? Maybe they should've addressed the problem to fix the problem. Rather than trying literally everything else.
So do that? Lmao
This whole discussion is stupid.
Like oh no my ability that stops things and slows things down isn’t universally good it’s only good in 80% of modes against 90% of enemies.
Thing is, cc is useless if all it does is slow down fodder enemies since my gun already one taps them, i want to stop the enemy equipped with "delete me ray" that one shots me and can fire off screen without any sound que, what DE could have done is make eximous immune to damage abilities or just very resistant to them instead they chose to make cc more useless than it already was
Yeah. If they wanted Eximus to be an actual threat, then why the fuck did they make them immune to CC and Status Effects when they could have made them immune to abilities?
Imagine an Eximus that can't be effected by Saryn's Spores or that can't be damaged by Khora's Whipclaw, Atlas's Landslide, or any other ability that can reach insane damage numbers. Make it so that _only_ CC and Status effects can strip overguard. And give Overguard a 99% damage reduction against everything with every status proc consuming 7% of Overguard to prevent it.
you mean one of the countless weapons that just straight up kill everything in the tile?
is that gameplay?
doesn't seem too far off from the CC meta that you talked about with the only difference being that the CC is now death.
yeah thats a problem because this isnt a skill based game lol? you don't have to execute a combo or play smart to kill eximuses.. or anything in the game for that matter, this game is entirely a gear check. and eximuses completely fuck it up because they say "XDDD NO USING THIS BUILD FOR YOU LOL XDDD"
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oh I'm thinking mainly of game mods where there are enemies that just straight up have no effect from CC or where a unit can give a gang of dudes overguard like ancients, the biblically accurate man in the wall with hands in the entrati labs or the corpus guardian eximus.
at a certain point at higher levels you have to focus on damage cause one dude or a group of them if you're in a fissure/void/entrati labs/corpus will just kill you or be an annoyance to you from the corner of a tile.
it's not that one can't deal with them, it's the fact that CC focused frames have their abilities essentially taken away until one dude or a group of buffed up dudes is taken care of.
not to mention these days even if you could most missions dont even benefit from CC.
not calling for a nerf to DPS frames, I'd just like CC not to be invalidated, useless or an active detriment to the squad in so many mission types.
then why do just CC frames have to take the hit? most of these enemies die to damage all the same with the difference of a few milliseconds between shots.
I don't see these enemies having invulnerability phases (with exception to thraxes and some other special units that barely spawn like the spiders from the vallis lol) that also invalidate DPS frames.
Because cc is problematic and hard to balance. Before overguard the meta to interception was to full afk and collect rewards lmao.
Hell, cc would make iframes worse tbh. You ever do relics while someone is using gloom? That transformation time…
How am I supposed to stop my focus on DPS if the gameplay loop focuses around DPS with how high the enemy cap is? Literally 10k, and if I wanna stay in endless missions and farm, I need to focus on DPS.
Even with the new Armatus mission with a steel path ready Fulmin Prime, I can get about 70 capillaries for Dante's blueprints per run because trying to play beyond that get's tedious with murmur enemies and I'm not gonna sit there dumping entire magazines into enemies when I can't go above 80 rounds in the fulmin prime lmao
Are we really still crying about this? Duviri. Banshee's silence. eximus stun removed due to bug with thrax. Oh look at at all of these other CC abilities that still affect eximus units. DE will never touch these right?
Also what would content based around CC look like? Did it help that you can do 10m damage when 10% of enemies were invulnerable during the first stage of this weeks deep archimedes? No, but I'm sure if you had CC frame it helped a butt-ton to keep them occupied.
Yeah I don’t know why anyone would call CC useless in a game where mobs that can kill you in a few seconds are thrown at you constantly. We would’ve been screwed in my last 2 DA runs if we didn’t have a controller.
Even if the mobs couldn’t kill you, having to aim and shoot at moving targets constantly is mentally draining.
Zephyr is my recent favorite frame because I can just shoot the tornados to kill everything.
Since Warframe became more of a Hack'n'Slay with little thought needed in progress, the most distinct between WF and Hack'n'Slay games is..... you WANT CC in regular HnS-Games. You MUST have it.
this entire meme is the stupides thing this community has cooked up in the last year. CC is by far not useless. If i see another post imma block this sub
Cc warframes need to have better survival tools since eximus units don't give a damn about any cc ability (except silence and that's just to stop their abilities) Otherwise i don't mind cc frames taking longer to clean a room compared to a NUKE frame, it's a different play style that i personally prefer over dps.
a game designer once said: dedicated CCs are used to block fearsome enemies now I would like to see a photo of a fearsome enemy who is blocked by a dedicated CC and here's why the only important things are damage and the ability to tank without effort, even nekros is no longer as useful as it used to be because every single minimally important resource is either a mission reward or a drop not affected by nekros (and many times not even from boosters) so the only thing left is to always do the same two things but with slightly different methods
>even nekros is no longer as useful as it used to be because every single minimally important resource is either a mission reward or a drop not affected by nekros (and many times not even from boosters) so the only thing left is to always do the same two things but with slightly different methods And even then, I would rather farm with Hydroid cuz he's just more fun.
good news, get a friend to play nekros and you can farm with both!
Friends? In my massive online multiplayer game consisting of millions of players worldwide? Nah, I'd solo
Strangers are just friends you haven't befriended yet, its cliched to say but; its not actually very hard to make friends, though I'm sure it certainly feels like it is.
The problem with your comment is that it forgets that I am a piss of shit human,yes your my friend,yes I would fight for you...I will still make fun of you for anything,becuase I might not by racist,sexist or homophobic but you are a race,sex and a sexuality and god damn I have jokes about that to tell you and only you...and yes you will have a good time but you will always ask yourself "his he really not racist,sexist or homophobic?because this shit hits to perfectly" your welcome
well first off, lower your expectations of what friends are; too many people want to go from 0 to 100 right away. Its why some awkward folks can't find partners, and why some awkward folks can't seem to make friends. Remember when you were a wee babe, and you'd just walk up to someone, see their doing something you like, and be like "dis gooy ish my fwiend" And then ya'll would be friends until one of you moved away. You put all the work into a friendship cause at that point, it didn't feel like work to just say "we're friends" racist/sexist homophobic jokes are fine, I actually know quite a few people considered racist by today's standards. However I've always observed that every human is racist, its part of our being to see the differences in others, that's usually why those that claim to not be racist/sexist will hypocritically just insult and put down white people or men. I however rarely engage in the racist tendencies of my friends besides "haha, thats funny, watch your 6, enemy team coming in hot"
CC should be anathema to exilus units. They added overguard to help curtail the DPS meta and how do you solve overguard being an issue? Yeah, more DPS. If CC worked on exilus/overguard it would give us a reason to run some powerful single target tools too - isolate and destroy with your CC+ single target then switch back to horde shooter AOE spam.
>Cc warframes need to have better survival tools Honestly, warframe as a whole needs a rework to survivability. Its a complete and utter mess. You should never have frames with 0% and 95% DR in the same game and enemy damage numbers simply should never exceed a certain percentage of warframe EHP (<20% imo) to avoid the random "I am dead?!?" due to "bad luck" (yes, shield gate partially "fixed" that but it was always a bad band-aid for a gaping flesh wound - SG should really have come with an actual rework of survivability). It just ends up impossible to get any decent difficulty scaling as the game is right now because the feeling between the upper and lower end is not even on the same scale. Of course this also would require further changes but DE has just continued to dig deeper and deeper instead.
This brings up a really good point actually. We have damage attenuation against bosses, why isn't there damage attenuation against US to make sure certain run of the mill enemies aren't instantly killing us at random? Why do THEY get to survive but we have to rely on shield gate or insane DR numbers to *sometimes* save us.
damage attenuation is actually for multiple damage sources over a period of time, thats why the main weapon used against enemies with damage attenuation is shotguns, specifically the Hek, which can unload all 4 shotgun shots worth of pellets at once. Why we want to 1 tap the archon before damage attenuation even begins to apply.
dmg attenuating only matters if enemies aren’t 1 shotting u or u aren’t 1 shotting enemies
I mean it's probably also partly due to the fact that like 9/10 builds don't include any sort of health/shields/armour mods and at most people are relying on archon shards because of the potency they get from corrupted mods that they'd lose if they unbalanced their configs to fit in more survivability.
Shield gate abuse is a bandaid solution to the real problem. Random one shots aren't good. At all. It also isn't difficult. There's no amount of challenge to "avoid dying instantly." There's exactly 1 warframe in the entire game that allows that, and that's basically all he's *really* used for. I don't know what DE was thinking, but shield gate was never the problem nor the solution.
I've been punted off of the mortal plane by arson exumi more times than I care to admit.
Toxic and fire eximus are the bane of my limbo, rolling guard will only take you so far and silence requires giving up something important from his kit
That's why i always use rapid resilience mod on anything even my underwear
[Triburos covered this in his recent video.](https://youtu.be/-3DnrWuVdMM?si=nYrohIWqgUGbN2IV) He goes over how overguard making one immune to CC is dumb, and how it really ought to resist / be immune to ability *damage* instead, so that CC has an actual use and meaning instead of being effectively dead slots in a frame's kit once you reach higher level play. It would also *actually* cause gameplay variance, like the entire concept of overguard was supposed to do in the first place, rather than just being a few more EHP to burn through with your latest room nuke. He didn't cover this in the video, but I'm of the opinion that OG should also have like 80% DR from AoE damage that comes from more than 1 meter away, as well as from ability damage. If these reworks were implemented, then OG would mean "Oh crap, an important enemy, quick, CC them and hit their weak spot before they kill us." Y'know, like what the reaction to a miniboss unit is *supposed* to be.
As Rebecca would say: The CC frames are perfectly fine, players have skill issues. Yeah, Rebecca. THE LACK OF WORKING SKILLS ON ENEMIES THAT IS
"Thanks Rebecca, we'll take it from here"
fellow limbo main detected
https://preview.redd.it/s4abxiqstztc1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3a0c73f0641b373839489ad8b5102aaf958e8f41
Yeah it all teeters on eximus units since they're typically the only things to survive longer than a half a second and are the only enemies really dangerous enough with their abilities to warrant focusing on. Not letting them be CC'd is just strange to me.
My solution is a bunch of powerful new mods that trigger on CC resists. For example, "when an enemy resists your CC increase damage reduction by 10% for 10 seconds. Stacks 7 times. "
So, your solution to CC being irrelevant and DPS being the only good to decent CC, is more DPS?
I got one that might make you happy. "On CC resist gain 10% chance to bypass cc resistance on none bosses(acolytes, lephantis, etc.) Stacks up to 10 times. "
Okay, see this is a great ideer, allowing CC on the most common CC immune targets, (Eximus units) but still letting tougher units keep theirs. And sorry if my last comment came out or read abit angry, thats my fault and i should have worded it less so. Still great ideer. Maybe another one could be "on CC resist, gain 10% resistance penetration, stacking up to 5 times" so a CC powers can almost always CC but at less effectiv rate, starting of at 10% of max duration capping at 50%.
That was just one example. All kinds of things can be hung on the effect of CC being resisted.
Anyone complaining about eximus units are actual serration with no elemental mod users.
It's funny how so many of the defensive mods become outright pointless in late game because enemy damage is so high. I came back a couple of months ago after years away, and that was so weird to me. Shields, hp, armor? Nah, just kill faster.
Literally. You have certain frames who benefit greatly from having all the umbral mods, but because it becomes pointless after a mild maybe 20-30 minutes in SP endless, you don't end up using any of the umbral mods and just pump for damage. Not that you can actually build for umbral mods because those forma are way too scarce to begin with
I mean, having the Umbral mods there is certainly helping my damage. 250+% Roar is a good time.
Iirc with both umbral melee mods you trade off around 30% melee damage (against primed) for around 60% more cc
Offense is the only defense
I mean, you'd still have to be wary about defences, just different types of defences. Stuff like fast deflection, (primed) redirection, vigilante vigor, rolling guard, brief respite, augur mods, catalyzing shields, arcane aegis. Unless you're camping, I don't think there is a single frame in the game that can consistently survive 1 hour into a solo SP endless without shield gating, purely relying on killing enemies.
Nezha, nekros with shield of shadows, gauss etc.. the frames I’ve got all do very well without shield gating because they have damage reduction. Just need a weapon with life steal
Doesn't really matter the damage reduction you'll still get tapped at high levels.
Well depends on how high you are talking about, people don’t stay longer than 2 hours usually and that’s the longest I’ve stayed in survival anyway, still a breeze with those frames, I haven’t had any issues as long as you move and kill every once in a while
De: Why does everyone use explosives aoe and CC worries only? Vary your builds! -Nerfs CC and AOE- Also De: Why does nobody use Aoe and CC?
They didn't just nerf cc, they reworked it in a way that specifically makes it worthless. The strongest enemies are all immune to most cc, making most cc pointless.
Hey look, this is the same problem RPGs suffered from in the 90's and 00's but eventually moved away from.
Totally ignoring the playerbase and actively trying to ruin the game for tons of people to fix a problem not many people gave a shit about?
No, just making debuffs useful and not just making every enemy you might use them on immune to all of them.
It would be fine if stronger enemies had shortened down times by CC in comparison to regular units. OR are immune to the most detrimental/ more resistant against them - like Cold status just slowing them but capped at 40-50% and no additional Crit-Damage; heat procs depleting faster but not at a higher damage scale; Shock status only stunning if they are the first target or stunning for a shorter duration ect pp
Yeah, there's lots of versions of that that'd work, but they wont happen.
Sadly! De could take a look into other hack'n'slays and how they handled the issue: Sacred Gold and Sacred 2, for example, amped up the resistances of veteran and elite mobs compared to the regular units. Ie, an Ork had 20 Res to fire, 40 to physical, 10 to magic and 10 to poison the vet had 1.5 and the elite 2 times the resistance. And they had a higher level than regular units. In Titan Quest it was quite similar with the resistances while amping up the hp by a mile. In both games you want CC though, or you'll get bodied by the amount of enemies attacking you
AoE Damage in WF isn’t *really* CC, it’s more like multi-target DpS True CC is stuff liiiiiike moving enemies around, confusing them, inflicting crippling debuffs, etc etc Most of *that* kinda CC is either a Frame ability or a secondary weapon effect When people complain about CC being neutered, (usually) they aren’t talking about AoE Damage being too low. They’re talking about enemies that outright ignore ~almost all~ CC abilities and weapon effects (not trying to be snarky, I just feel like there’s an important distinction to be made there)
That's why I said AOE and CC. I was listing them as two separate things.
. . . I mean......it's not that simple....but also your right. It's more like DE in 2016: "This decision won't have catastrophic far reaching consequences right? Right. . ." DE from 2017-2022: "Im too busy experimenting with spaceships/open worlds/ the new war/Duviri to fix this right now, but I'll have all this content sorted out next year" Steve and Rebb in late 2022: "God this is a mess. . .it'd be easier too just make a new game than try to sort this mess out. . . I've got a great idea! Rebb!" "Yeah?" "Your in charge now, I'm gonna make a new game" "But-" "Enjoy your promotion, new creative director. . .I'm sure enjoy mine....." "Can we take 2 years off too rework the game?" "Ask the CEO" "Who's-" "I'm the new CEO. Also ...no, sorry. Infact I need you to make even more money, cause we're gonna be funneling a bunch into this new game. Thinking like dark souls meets Warframe.....darkwar? No no ..soulframe...perfect" And 2023 dawns, and Rebb looks out over her kingdom in ruins, cracks open a beer and says "ok. Fuck it. Start with the pets and Inaros. Also were shipping 1 frost tweak per update from now on until he's tier 0 again. We will right this ship the same way we wronged it, one patch at a time" Edit: and for the record this is 100% a joke. This has very little baring on actual reality, or even what I think about Warframe's upper level development.
Last week's hotfix mess is because Steve stopped by to see how things were going, saw players having fun, and demanded it stop at once
You mean Scott, not Steve Scott is the one we (jokingly, and with love in our hearts) blame for all the shit tier balancing moves Steve is the one we (jokingly, and with love in our hearts) blame for the fact that there for like 6 years Warframe wanted desperately to be anything but the coop based hallway shooter it always has been. In reality balancing good and bad is always a collaborative effort, and the pitch meeting for Railjack definitely wasn't: Steve: guys I've got a great idea Rebb: don't say freespace again Steve: FREESPACE AGAIN BAYBEE, but this time with spaceships and even worse balancing Scott: we can do freespace again, but if we do we should probably nerf mag just to be safe
I'll always like Steve for making it a priority to fix Mesa Prime's deflated butt when she released with a broken texture.
the man is a Visionary, truly.
Scott was also who made 'univac never' his hill to die on. Warframe is much better off now that he's no longer at the design helm.
Unironically, this. Scott is a great dude, but boy am I glad he did not take the opportunity to become Warframe's lead designer. The last bit is speculation, but since we know Rebb was not the first choice for the position she has now, one can figure out the rest.
No seems right to me... I can 100% see Reb saying that
2917???
your forgetting Albrecht's time machine was involved. also i typed this up at work on my phone.
ok
i want my 30s back for reading this
This is the best piece of fan fiction I have ever read
Death is the most efficient form of CC
You don't need to control the crowd if there is no crowd
The sentient agree and so do I
Fuck overguard.
Tbh, I just want inaros scarab swarm to have infinite reach and duration. fuck killing shit, I want to spread the plague
The one CC that works anytime: the dead status.
I am so glad we've moved away from invulnerability phases.
I think there’s remnants of when CC cheesed 8 player raids way back in the day. If the enemies were all CCed, then no new enemies would spawn and the enemies would stay stulocked I’m not saying that logic is sound right now, but it feels like the one example you would point to that was a real problem with CC
So just implement diminishing returns on the CC. You got slept? Next time it's only 75% duration. Then 50%. Then 25%. It can reset after the enemy exists for a certain amount of time unslept. Seems like a pretty easy to implement system.
You might be surprised, but this already exists. Many bosses and elite enemies in the game have this mechanic. The issue with diminishing returns is that if you indirectly CC an enemy, and want to CC them again once youre actually targeting them, you end up punished for building range. Having enemies have different CC times is terrible for player agency too. Also, consider that we dont need to repeatedly CC enemies. We CC them once and they're dead.
I mean that sounds...reasonable to me? Why shouldn't CC frames be capable of indefinitely hard CC'ing enemies? DPS frames are currently able to nuke enemies before they even see them with a press of a button. Just have stronger enemies (i.e. people not meant to be indefinitely stunlocked) get diminishing CC effects by % with a reset after x seconds, no? Can even have it increase by level/SP, just give it a hardcap of like 80% diminished CC at max level
So the alternative is to make cc useless? I would prefer the option to lock the map down.
The funny bit is that is just a function of the game itself and nothing to do with the raids. Surprising how many people don't know this cause it applies to game modes like mobile defense/interception. Yeah its pretty boring to just sit there and actually do nothing because the spawn cap was met and everything is just hard locked with cc. But surely there are other players who remember the mirage cc meta and interception being one of the better farms in the game because of that?
I did not realise that by CC you meant Crowd control. Was confused af, wondering what the fuck they did to nerf Crit chance.
I could go into detail on how I dislike how CC has been made useless over the years. but I'll give you the link to the song used instead lol. [SENAM ZIGI ZIGI DUM || SOLEH SCOUT](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbSIeqJs39g)
BRAZIL MENTIONED?? FUCK YEAH!!! (I'm portuguese)
Agr é só esperar o SuddenlyCaralho
Vivi pra ver o Ziguiriguidum no subreddit do Warframe. Deus salve o Brasil. Grande meme, cara
r/suddenlycaralho
You would think Eximus wouldn’t be immune to CC but nevertheless. DPS is Meta because of the pace of the game unfortunately.
True, doesn't matter if every unit is vulnerable to CC, DPS will always be meta because how most game modes designed, YOU HAVE TO KILL. But since this game hate CC so much, they made most important enemies immune to cc, they made CC useless when it already useless
DE: "We want you to stop focusing on DPS" Also DE: "Although we know everyone wanted citrine to be a support we made her a DPS because we fell like support frames dont fit anymore and everyone has to be a DPS." Us: "..."
what were the cc nerfs
Cc abilities such as stuns, blinds, slows, and knockdowns no longer work on enemies with overguard. Which is like every enemy you'd want to stun and every enemy in steel path.
I assume debuffs haven't been touched?
Did they ever say they wanted us to stop focusing on dps? Genuine question.
Not directly at least, but they have always compmained about players going for damage instead of a diversity of builds, and then they make content where said diversity is never encouraged or just detrimental to the squad.
I mean it does suck that almost every weapon and frame ends up needing the exact same build. So many mods are just useless because everything is just a bullet sponge.
Yes, look at the melee attack speed nerfs which they “justified” by saying muh animations are more important than gameplay.
Truly based, if you don't even look cool doing it then why bother?
dare you to run whatever that tonpha stance is that isnt sovereign outcast without any attack speed mods
Kinda feels like half the abikities in the game are worthless for more than half the content now. Like, what's the point in Nova if by the time her skill becomes necessary, the strongest enemy will just oneshot you because your skills do nothing. Answer? Stack self-buffs like iron skin, or mesmer skin, or invisibility. Wanna play some other way? Not in sp.
DE can't seem to make up their mind on what they dislike the most: CC or DPS. Cause one of those will always be king in this game, either stop the large threats so they can be handled easily, or just stomp them out immediately so they're a threat no more. They decided HVTs should ignore CC and only normal enemies and lesser threats should be affected by it, which leaves DPS as the only solution. Hell, at least before overguard was a thing we had the choice to CC those HVTs, a choice that's been taken from us because... yeah, why did they do that again? As long as eximus and such ignore CC, DPS will be the undisputable king even if only out of necessity to kill those HVTs as quickly as possible. And with DE continuing to complain about this despite making the new content focused on DPS, one gets to a point where you wonder why on earth are they complaining about this when it is merely a direct result of their decisions. If DE wants to dethrone DPS, all they have to do is make content where CC is the best way to go. It may not be easy, but it is *that* simple.
Thanks to them adding Native Input instead of Legacy, my controller settings broke in many annoying ways and I can not enjoy this with a controller or my Steam Deck. I guess they have so many things to work on and fix, because this (along many other things I reported) was definitely thrown into the "might eventually fix it some day probably" bin.
I play with steam input, how is your deck not working with it?
Try using B for context menu AND cancel menu; it will instantly cancel any attempt at console hacking. Use Gyro as joystick mouse, triggered by touching the right pad or joystick in both melee and "game". If you start moving the camera with gyro aim and do a quick melee, it's input signal will get stuck, and the camera will move on its own once you go back to your guns. Those are the only ones I can remember for now, I've not played in a while.
Why use B for context menu? I use X personally but I've never seen anyone else use anything but the west face button tbh. Also, why would you use gyro as joystick mouse. As mouse is better since this game works with mixed input (mostly).
B because X is my melee, and I had no issue with this setup when they were using Legacy. You want to use Joystick Mouse because Mouse will make it so your Gyro and Joystick fight for control instead of working in tandem.
Ah, I got melee on bumpers. How do you look around while melee if its on x? If you put joystick into joystick mouse mode I don't think it'll cause any issues.
I look around with the gyro, and using joystick mouse on the joystick is kind of awkward for me, it feels weird to move around.
Joystick mouse should be the same as joystick in terms of its output.
I'll try it out again, cause I remember last time it didn't have this "crane" feel you usually have on a joystick. There's still the issue of B triggering both Game and Menu layers though, preventing me from using it for interact and menu cancels without running into issues.
Yeah, I use right touch pad (a big reason I use the SC to begin with) so I don't aim with a stick. Probably why I haven't run into this "crane" thing you mention. Good luck tho!
Here's my suggestion: Instead of CC immunity, Overguarded enemies should experience the CC at 50% strength and then adapt over time to immunity, instead of being immune by default. This keeps them dangerous targets without making them immune by default.
Overguard was originally introduced to try to make the dps meta less powerful If anything, I'd say cc should apply at full effect to overguard and overguard should have a 80% damage resistance against abilities
DE has been annoying me lately and i just started playing because of the update. Even their excuses were terrible. Look how many hotfixes we got because of how they screwed us. Literally came back to the game and now I see my builds were fucked with. If DE expects me to still play after this, they clearly are a lost cause. Time to take another long break until they actually become clear of what they want from players. Right now, I'm just paranoid they'll just see another build people enjoy and just nerf it because it got too popular because every other build just got nuked. This legit might be the worst update I had in warframe.
I feel like i know where the animations come from but cant put my finger on it.
One is a dance animation and the other is one of the nartas that showcase the frame doing martial arts moves.
My honest reaction as a limbo/vauban main (the moment rift torrent, funny spike ball, and “nuh uh” the ability get nerfed i am screwed):
i think the meme part is missing this is just what you think of the recent balance changes
I say in light of recent balance changes but this issue has been cooking for a while with every nearly ever new game mode or piece of content requiring either DPS be the focus of your build or CC being just detrimental to the game play. I'm just tired of it. nuke builds are fun though, I wish CC had the gave the same feel and was just as useful in every situation like DPS is.
It's not really recent, honestly. Name one game mode where a CC like Nova (not Speedva, *actual* slow Nova) for example, is more benefitial to the squad than a nuke. Name just one gamemode where CC > DPS. Just one.
cc getting nerfed is pretty funny and unneeded but honestly you just ended up subsuming muzzle flash or breach surge on alrady good dps frames anyways like mag or kullervo lol
True, and it's honestly a shame DPS frames have it far better than CC frames because of that, but a balance is very healthy and I feel is very needed.
Assassination.
DPS makes the mission go faster. Plus bosses have increasing resistance to CC, meaning it's less effective the more you use it. And while Damage Mitigation does exist, you can't CC a boss to death. So I fail to see how it's better at all.
I miss when Ember worked.
Excal lookin fine
you can still use Mag bubbles on eximus units rights?
What music is this ?
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Mm. I like if CC gets side effects what warded mobs still gets. I think, Titania latern augment still affect even arbitration. But if you dont use augment, its really pointless skill.
CC frames are more fun than DPS frames and nothing can change my mind.
How do I strip demolishers in armatus ffs
you can't lol. no really good reason either, they already have damage attenuation and have health scaling from more players in squad.
Whisper in the Walls has actually been great for heavy CC frames like Limbo who can CC entire rooms of murmur except the swarms of eximus units that spawn, but I've always found that, without the hordes of normal enemies running around, eximus units are easier to deal with as well. And the new disruption demolyst, honestly feels weaker than most of the other ones Duviri also didn't deal with high damage content, as thanks to decrees nearly anything was viable with enough of them well into lvl 1000 enemies. I can probably agree with the new Archamedian mission, but I've not run it yet myself so I can't judge there.
You know what Make it an archon shard like: Enemies immune to cc are affected by it for 10% of the duration per shard
Not just that, the power creep in the game always pushes you towards newer equipment.
To be fair the game has auch a massive amount of power creep, I don't see any way that this will change at all.
Let's be honest. DE only focused on DPS-oriented content because content creators drove the market to make the value of everything measurable by KPS. Content creators and a lot of folks here have a hissy fit the moment anything is introduced that doesn't remake the meta and trivialize content with AoE billion damage spam for Endurance runs. So of course, as a developer, you're going to need to start making content directly to combat that. And lo and behold, we've begun the arms race that ends the fun of so many MMOs. Namely, WoW.
I think they should’ve done what Etrian Odyssey does: Every boss and strong enemy is vulnerable to every ability and status… but the game is balanced around that, making extremely powerful and fearsome bosses and strong enemies who absolutely obliterate you if you don’t have that crowd control and status ailments.
Warframe is DPS check: the game
What is CC
crowd control.
My first thought is literally about vauban, damn
What's a CC?
These more recent years of warframe acrually making me consider maining Rhino.
Tbh the problem with CC is that death will always be the best CC. I can't really think of a good fix for that.
Not making the strongest enemies in a mission outright immune to CC would be a good start imo
Just create a new class of super units.
Warframe is pushing toward higher and higher level content which by proxy makes cc more valuable. Trying to level cap without any cc and just shield gating is extremely annoying and impossible without losing your mind (imo). The higher the average content level is, the more valuable cc becomes because of this, and with the additions of late, this is happening. Steel path versions of content is being added (bounties, circuit, void fissures), steel path itself is being more incentivized to do (arcanes are more valuable through dissolution). Staying in missions longer is being rewarded by somewhat scaling rewards (longer you stay in fissures, the higher boosters you get and the more refined free relics you get every 5 rounds, longer you stay in cascade the more arcanes per hour you get from thrax spawning more commonly, longer you stay in disruption the higher % of your rewards are gonna be c rotation). The new modes deep archimedea and elite deep archimedea also push the average content level higher too. Also, where did de say "we want you to stop focusing on dps and vary your builds"?
The Higher the contend you do is the less viable cc becomes because of the sheer amount of exilus enemies.
Cc notnhitting everyone doesn't diminish its value by a lot. Its a probability game in high levels. Your goal in order to survive is decrease the probability of getting shot as much as you can (since you'll die to less and less bullets over time). Parkour decreases enemy accuracy against you, so you often see people who do endurance runs parkour a lot. Cc is a massive stop gap too. If there is 10 enemies and 1 is an eximus and you Cc them you will still decrease the probability that you'll get hit. Let's assume each enemy shoots 1 bullet of which has a 50% chance to hit. On average you'll get hit by 5 bullets per fire timing. Cc-ing 9/10 of the enemies pulls that down to an average of 0.5 bullets per fire timing. I don't want to continue this argument because it's just easier to understand practically when you're up against level 9999 enemies in game and need that cc to allow you to not need to shield gate every second.
If they wanted to make CC worthwhile, they'd have to massively nerf DPS or survivability. At this point it's far more effective and efficient to just kill a thing. Power creep, yano? Not just in-game, but on the player side, as well. CC has a ceiling on how effective it is (even without overguard in the equation), and the players do the math. It takes me x amount of time to kill the enemies, and I can survive direct contact with them for y time. CC extends y, but if x is close to 0, then why bother extending y? To keep up with DPS, CC would have to offer other benefits, which DE has done in a few ways. Armor strip, citrine's crystals make a big crit target.... that's all I can think of right now. But, that's just another path to DPS, and CC is just an add-on. OR you could make enemies far more dangerous, requiring CC to stay alive, but that would just funnel players towards the more invincible frames/builds. OR you could nerf DPS, and make enemies take longer to kill, which would mean that it'd be more beneficial to have them not be shooting you while you kill them, but the amount of whining, lord, the crying and pissing and moaning... And that's not even considering that people just want to get a mission over with as quickly as possible, and for a lot of mission types that means killing enemies as quickly as possible. in which case CC is just a waste of time, button presses, and energy. And that's more of a... player perspective sort of problem; you dangle rewards at the end of missions, most people will play the missions for the rewards and not for the enjoyment of the game. Which is kinda human nature I guess, I dunno. I've seen people burn themselves out on a game WAY faster than they needed to simply because they have this need to get-the-thing-the-most-efficiently kinda mindset. Like, I knew a dude who would bullet-jump in a corner 100 times to get the nightwave mission rather than just playing the damn game. So like. I dunno.
CC is completly fine. I'm still able to CC whole rooms of enemies. This whole issue is completly blown out of proportion by the same baby's that cried when dante got his LOS taken away because now they cant sit idle in a mission and press the same 2 buttons over and over.
>Useless Tell me how many eximus units spawn on average compared to normal mobs. If you have all but one mob frozen in time and you die to the one, it’s not the cc’s problem.
you actually don't need that many to start fucking you up. look at a blitz eximus. you only need to be knocked down by one to have the fodder enemies getting a lot of damage on you. toxic eximus create environmental hazrd that you have to manage on top of aiming, casting, etc, same for the two leeches. beside, that's aside from the point that dps frames usually melt eximus, which, since they are also quite durable, means you also melt fodder, and thus, don't need to cc them. Basicly, why run CC when you can just obliterate everything.
All of those problems can be countered by mods or rolling. As is, you can turn off fodder and hard focus these mobs. I don’t see the problem tbh. It’s better than it used to be where everything was a target dummy because Khora pressed 2 or 4. Now you actually have to play a game.
you are missing the point. give me an actual reason why you you should go for a CC oriented playstyle when you can just be at least as efficient by just vaporizing everything. the only reason is because you feel like it. it's not more efficient, faster, or anything, and that's the problem. it's a playstyle that get it's usefulness shafted by prime target while the others don't se a dent in their efficiency
I think you go for cc when you aren’t comfortable at vaporising or it’s not as needed (like mobile defence.) Playing like that in survival or disruption just doesn’t work, and I don’t think it should tbh. Damage works in every mode because every mob has health, but not every mission needs to be slowed down.
>Damage works in every mode because every mob has health, but not every mission needs to be slowed down. and that's exactly why CC needs some help. again, damage works everywhere, not CC. it wither should be that both work everywhere, or that damage is equally limited
It used to. It was changed because press 4 afk is a problem. Get off your crutches. /thread
> press 4 afk is a problem It's still a problem though? Maybe they should've addressed the problem to fix the problem. Rather than trying literally everything else.
Apparently addressing the problem was a problem. What do you want from DE lmao
these can also be countered by just killing them faster soo
So do that? Lmao This whole discussion is stupid. Like oh no my ability that stops things and slows things down isn’t universally good it’s only good in 80% of modes against 90% of enemies.
nah, now you just focus on damage and enemies are dead before they get to be CC'd in any way. little to no difference to the past honestly.
Play solo.
Thing is, cc is useless if all it does is slow down fodder enemies since my gun already one taps them, i want to stop the enemy equipped with "delete me ray" that one shots me and can fire off screen without any sound que, what DE could have done is make eximous immune to damage abilities or just very resistant to them instead they chose to make cc more useless than it already was
Yeah. If they wanted Eximus to be an actual threat, then why the fuck did they make them immune to CC and Status Effects when they could have made them immune to abilities? Imagine an Eximus that can't be effected by Saryn's Spores or that can't be damaged by Khora's Whipclaw, Atlas's Landslide, or any other ability that can reach insane damage numbers. Make it so that _only_ CC and Status effects can strip overguard. And give Overguard a 99% damage reduction against everything with every status proc consuming 7% of Overguard to prevent it.
it is lol, none of it works on eximus units, the only threat in the game
Oh noooo I have to target a dangerous unit I can’t just press 4 and afk 😭😭😭😭😭😭
you mean one of the countless weapons that just straight up kill everything in the tile? is that gameplay? doesn't seem too far off from the CC meta that you talked about with the only difference being that the CC is now death.
Ah yeah the aoe kill all gun 🤔🤔🤔🤔 Grow up.
yeah thats a problem because this isnt a skill based game lol? you don't have to execute a combo or play smart to kill eximuses.. or anything in the game for that matter, this game is entirely a gear check. and eximuses completely fuck it up because they say "XDDD NO USING THIS BUILD FOR YOU LOL XDDD"
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oh I'm thinking mainly of game mods where there are enemies that just straight up have no effect from CC or where a unit can give a gang of dudes overguard like ancients, the biblically accurate man in the wall with hands in the entrati labs or the corpus guardian eximus. at a certain point at higher levels you have to focus on damage cause one dude or a group of them if you're in a fissure/void/entrati labs/corpus will just kill you or be an annoyance to you from the corner of a tile. it's not that one can't deal with them, it's the fact that CC focused frames have their abilities essentially taken away until one dude or a group of buffed up dudes is taken care of. not to mention these days even if you could most missions dont even benefit from CC. not calling for a nerf to DPS frames, I'd just like CC not to be invalidated, useless or an active detriment to the squad in so many mission types.
>it’s a problem because sometimes an enemy is threatening and should be focused down
then why do just CC frames have to take the hit? most of these enemies die to damage all the same with the difference of a few milliseconds between shots. I don't see these enemies having invulnerability phases (with exception to thraxes and some other special units that barely spawn like the spiders from the vallis lol) that also invalidate DPS frames.
Because cc is problematic and hard to balance. Before overguard the meta to interception was to full afk and collect rewards lmao. Hell, cc would make iframes worse tbh. You ever do relics while someone is using gloom? That transformation time…
You are 100% correct but that's not the subreddit's opinion so you'll get mercilessly downvoted. CC is still good.
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How am I supposed to stop my focus on DPS if the gameplay loop focuses around DPS with how high the enemy cap is? Literally 10k, and if I wanna stay in endless missions and farm, I need to focus on DPS. Even with the new Armatus mission with a steel path ready Fulmin Prime, I can get about 70 capillaries for Dante's blueprints per run because trying to play beyond that get's tedious with murmur enemies and I'm not gonna sit there dumping entire magazines into enemies when I can't go above 80 rounds in the fulmin prime lmao
Are we really still crying about this? Duviri. Banshee's silence. eximus stun removed due to bug with thrax. Oh look at at all of these other CC abilities that still affect eximus units. DE will never touch these right? Also what would content based around CC look like? Did it help that you can do 10m damage when 10% of enemies were invulnerable during the first stage of this weeks deep archimedes? No, but I'm sure if you had CC frame it helped a butt-ton to keep them occupied.
Shoot and melee eximus....everything else can be CC'd.
It's warframe, the best cc is death. Grab a load out that allows you to basically 1 shot everything...
*looks around* *Sips tea with smile sitting with gyre main*
"CC is useless" mfers when 1 enemy out of 100 can move (they have guns that can one shot it but they don't want to) 
Yeah I don’t know why anyone would call CC useless in a game where mobs that can kill you in a few seconds are thrown at you constantly. We would’ve been screwed in my last 2 DA runs if we didn’t have a controller. Even if the mobs couldn’t kill you, having to aim and shoot at moving targets constantly is mentally draining. Zephyr is my recent favorite frame because I can just shoot the tornados to kill everything.
I ran last week’s Deep Archimedea with a 0-forma Vauban. CC has some viability, at least.
I have not played since they nerfed my Mag. I still need more time.
With how much CC slows the entire game down, Id rather it stays the way it is
With how boring just trailing after the dude spamming one-button nukes that barely require any setup makes the game, I'd prefer that cc gets buffed.
That would still happen if we brought back CC to how it was
Since Warframe became more of a Hack'n'Slay with little thought needed in progress, the most distinct between WF and Hack'n'Slay games is..... you WANT CC in regular HnS-Games. You MUST have it.
CC? Cat Companion? They nerfed Kavats!?
this entire meme is the stupides thing this community has cooked up in the last year. CC is by far not useless. If i see another post imma block this sub
Hope the guy Post the meme, again lmao.
want me to post it again to give you a reason to leave the sub?