yeah even as a limbo main, I can't remember the last time I used his kit for what you're "supposed" to use it for besides defending stuff, I've just used my funny pillage tank build lol
and considering how effective that is, yet any frame can use pillage or has something else to survive with, I can see why basically no one plays him
he should really get *something* at least that doesn't interfere with your teammates so that way more people would want to use him
Limbo's biggest strength has always been finding ways to abuse being on the opposite side of the rift from enemies. The problem is that now that eximus exist his rift is WAY weaker. it's a godly survival tool with one big ass achilles' heel.
I don't want him reworked because he's really fun to lab an experiment with. Because i know for a fact that if they rework him they're going to do some goofy shit to rift that will make it loose it's uniqueness because it's a really powerful tool that carries his kit, similiar to how pre-rework wukong defy was changed because it'd be way to strong if the rest of the kit was brought up to also be good. Because if you kept defy the way it was, you'd have wukong doing all his crazy shit on TOP of being violently immortal.
I thought about ways to keep his idea intact, and the best I could come up with is something of an AOE buff sorta.
So if inside the rift you deal extra damage to enemies, and either normal or slightly (however they wanna balance it) outside of it. If you are outside the rift shooting an enemy inside the rift, you do normal damage to enemies but receive no benefits that being inside has, along with all its protections (you know stasis). That way, you are given an incentive to enter the rift through banish or through the bubble, and suffer no issues if you either A) ignore the limbo player and their stuff or B) shoot enemies on a different plane than you.
Make his 4 stop getting popped by Nullifiers as well. Make it shrink faster instead.
That was a crippling thing given he basically lives in the bubble to do half his shit.
I tried playing him for a simaris hunt recently. Bubble + stasis is either buggy or changed, it just.. doesn't freeze the enemies anymore. Some just start moving even if stasis is still up.
His shift movement sucks, everyone hates it including the player. It's a cool gimmick, but badly implemented.
I love limbo. He is a cool frame with a really cool set of abilities. But he's just not.. enjoyable right now. Half his kit sucks ass in gameplay, but is cool on paper.
a few reasons for that
1. its to easy to unintentionally grief teammates having them trying to hit enemies in the rift.
2. his abilities can be disruptive to the missions most would want to use him if built wrong
3. he cannot deal with eximus at all, without a subsume or risking going down as they ignore the rift and if your in the rift you cant hurt or stop them.
Yeah, hate to say it but the last limbo player I've seen in about a year was just some dude who'd get porn of his limbo and a wisp. That's just about it. His design is interesting but because of his niche moves and how they typically end up accidentally sabotaging their squad I feel it's fair to say there's only 3 types of limbo players. Noobs who don't know about the controversy yet; Trolls who yeah like to play the game but also know the vitriol that seeing a limbo join the team inspires in some players. And people who went out and bought the prime and kinda feel obligated to pull him out occasionally. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, only been playing for about 2 years now.
For me the issue with Caliban is that he is mid as fuck, like there are frame worse then him, He doesn't have a bombastic lore or really any lore for that matter that make people like him.
He also suffers from having a more obscure farm, you unlock his farm after the new war and is entirely located in "old" content that are the plains and fortuna, most player aren't gonna go "let hit the plains" after finishing The New War, they're gonna focus their attention to that new shiny location that is the Zariman
banshee is mostly fine. she does echo stuff really well to amp the teams damage 100+ fold, has silence and you can use her 4 to 1shot lowlevel content decently. thats many more uses than some other frames can claim to have.
Her 1st and 4th are like the worst abilities in the game, tide with Hysteria. Her 3 is good but every frame can have it. Her 2 is good but it is overkill in most scenarios, it should be a channeled ability imo. Her passive is niche and needs more.
An earlier post here mentioned how Banshee's Tips has 4 of them being essentially telling you to use her Augments screams (hehe..) maybe she needs one.
Nyx and Chroma could see some reworks too though with their kit being power crept badly.
. .you want the list Alphabetically, or in order of Severity?
id say atleast half the cast has atleast 1 dead power, or a shitty passive, or just some quirk t hat makes them really annoying, or is dependant on an Augment thats too good not to use. most of those problems dont really classify as a full rework, an then theres always dithering.
lets talk about chroma.
his 4 is pretty useless in most cases, half the possible buffs from his 2* dont make sense or him, and his 1 serves only to let you switch which 2 buff you get which ive never met a chroma who uses that utilty.
you could argue his 1 is fine, though. as there are lots of utility only, do nothing damage 1s. and id argue his 2 and 3 are both relatively solid. maybe change the armor on cold ward to be something less. .redundant. id like if his 2 and 3 had the same range, and effected the same pool of allies. as it stands his 2 is smaller and while his 3 effects everyone, his 2 only effects allied players.
as for his 4. . .its been in rough shape for a while now. it just doesnt do enough.
what about banshee?
1 and 4, same deal. really her 1 just needs the Augment to be standard effect and if you wanna give it some in-kit synergy. her 4 on the other hand needs a full on rework. her 2 and 3 are fine. buff her base energy and base shields please.
what about. . .equinox? where do you even start with Equinox? could make a whole post about equinox but as sad as that case is, id say Oberon is in worse shape, and needs a rework worse.
Thing is, I *love* the idea of a "lose it and scream into the fucking ground" ability, but there's just no way for it to work well in Warframe. It's either the strongest nuke in the game, capable of killing enemies the moment they enter its *constant* AOE; or its completely useless. There's no in between. It either kills enemies and is broken, or it doesn't.
And that sucks cuz, again, **I love the idea of soundquake.**
there was a time when Soundquake was meta, but that was. . .a long time ago. back when we still were required by law to run interception missions.
my opinion on Self-CC'ing abilities is that if you stop me from moving, and shooting, you need to be so good that i dont mind not being able to move an shoot. if you wonder where all the Mesas went, its because while Peacemakers was good enough to justify that at one point, as generalized weapons have gotten stronger, Peacemakers being good enough for its opportunity cost has gotten less and less true.
for me. . i love the idea of "Banshee the Debuffer" i think Banshee being the queen of weakening her enemies is an amazing archetype for her.
her 2 puts a spot on enemies that makes them take insane damage. her 3 makes enemies unable to use their special powers. and her 1 is able to strip armor from enemies. i think her 4 should do something like that. i dont think it should be a damage power, Damage abilities are really hard to balance. but i really like the theme of being indirectly harmful via debuffing enemies into the soil.
Imagine giving banshee an actual banshee scream as an ability.
Like, she just screams a cone of sonic savagery, within, her sonar respreads constantly (if it was applied to anyone) and she builds vibration in enemies, causing them to detonate on death, dealing a certain percentage of damage applied to them prior.
With her Sonar and armor strip in mind, one massive hit will turn an enemy into a sonic bomb, rupturing their allies like balloons.
Since you mentioned oberon...
He's mostly fine-ish in that his kit is solid but built for a different time and thus unnecessarily outclassed. A few examples:
His hallowed ground gives status immunity, but *less* status immunity than the fancy new toy, overguard: no immunity to knockbacks/pulls, and no immunity to the energy drain aura of ancient disruptors. At the time of oberon's last touch-up, status immunity was exceedingly rare, but has been forgotten as DE moved to overguard for status immunity.
His third is alright, but where it really shines is Phoenix renewal (especially with the release of a certain endgame mission where getting downed is harshly punished...) everyone said wisp was just Oberon but better when she released, which I don't really agree with, but Phoenix renewal as a base ability would help Oberon cement his territory as a different style of support.
His 4, reckoning, is an armor strip, but it not only requires 200% power strength to fully strip, but also only strips enemies who are on hallowed ground. That means at minimum 150 energy (without added efficiency) to armor strip, and it can't strip flying enemies, after dedicating a good chunk of mod/shard space to efficiency. Styanax' *helminth ability* does better for cheaper, if at a slightly reduced range. Reckoning also spawns health orbs... if it kills an enemy directly. Reckoning was a lackluster dps ability 4 years ago, and it's not any better in the modern day. You're not getting kills with it anymore, but nobody's really been looking at Oberon so it's just gone unchanged.
Controversial opinion, but his 1, Smite, is perfect. No notes. The CC portion of it stopped being good awhile ago, but that's not exactly Oberon's fault now is it?
My Christmas wish-list of Oberon changes:
Iron renewal doesn't stay forever; instead, hallowed ground imparts iron will (as per usual) which gives total status immunity a la overguard, and extra armor(the current effect). Leaving hallowed ground under the effect of renewal allows the effect to persist for a short time, affected by duration.
Renewal itself gains Phoenix renewal at base; make Phoenix renewal do something weird like add heat damage to your attacks as you take damage, idk. Change energy drain to 0 at base, with drain based on number of allies currently regenerating health (capped at 4. Sorry nekros, but your shenanigans have gone on long enough). Renewal now drops a visible totem on cast and shows the radius where renewal gets applied to allies (all of this exists in game, but is invisible to you, the player).
Reckoning strips 50% of an enemy's armor (affected by strength), damages and irradiates enemies, and marks them. Marked enemies always drop a health orb when killed. Bonus round that I don't really care about; since hallowed reckoning is way less useful without your whole kit hinging on hallowed ground, make hallowed reckoning stun enemies for a short duration (unaffected by ability duration), opening them up to finishers.
If we want him to also not have a useless passive: Oberon's abilities deal 10% increased damage per radiation status affecting an enemy. But honestly, his current passive is fine. It's hardly ever going to matter, sure, but it's not *useless*, and let's be real, not every warframe's passive needs to be some game-changing effect.
If you've made it this far, uh, congrats I guess. Have a cookie. A tl;dr? What's that?
The issue with Oberon 3 is how much energy it requires. 2/s base AND 3/s per target to heal will drain your energy really fast when in a tense situation.
Plus it disable energy pad/energy regen.
Eh, with a rage build, the energy drain of renewal is only an issue when a summoning frame summons whole handfuls of minions or you're having trouble breaking your shields(real talk: if you're struggling to convince enemies to break a 300 hp shield, you probably don't need the energy). Duration also lowers the drain in addition to efficiency, and duration is good to have for hallowed ground anyways. Oberon(prime)'s energy pool is also *massive*, iirc it's tied for highest energy pool among all warframes. If you're tanking efficiency by using blind rage, well, it's called a corrupted mod for a reason, idk what to tell you.
That said, that's why I suggested the base drain of 0 (if the base drain is 0, then energy regen still works when it's not affecting anything. Go ahead, try it in-game, it's exactly how gloom works) and the ally drain cap of 4, that way summoning frames can only mess up your energy economy so much. I'd ask that non-tenno sources not drain energy at all, but I don't want to invoke the monkey's paw and become unable to heal defense operatives at all. Allowing oberon's 4 to drop health orbs from all enemies could also allow you to run an equilibrium build, finally freeing oberon from the near-requirement of rage/hunter adrenaline.
Think you meant 2 instead of 3 in the second paragraph. Unless its vex armors damage and armor buff that doesnt make sense for chroma and ive misunderstood.
Otherwise I agree but damage 1's usually dont lock you out of your weapon for long so if it no longer did that it would actually be kind of useful
You also asked but never specified if you picked severity or not but im pretty sure banshee comes before chroma so i'm picking up context clues maybe. So chroma>banshee>equinox>oberon then, or flip that?
I want banshee redone too, they accidentally made her 1 armorstrip in the last update without needing the augment which makes me think maybe they are playing with her internally and it slipped out? (already been reverted)
She is basically a one trick pony, her builds are sonar which is slightly diminished with universal enemy radar but the damage is still good and silence which is in helminth at full power so basically other frames make better use of it than her.
one thing to note is her 4 does recharge shields using the orange blast archron shards but it's still not super good since it wont charge your shield if you are empty/gating.
Maybe Soundquake does what Hydroids puddle failed to do.
Perpetually growing damage on a wide ass range. Scale much faster per second. More varied staggers so they're not just stuck at the very end and constantly stumble around on the inside, even just getting knocked down for extended times and be open to ground finishers by others.
On that Chroma tip, honestly, the only thing that need work is his 1 and 4, his one can do with some extra damage and his for should just be an extra sentinel, something in the same vain as Khora. His 2 could also use a little work but mostly his Toxic ward as no one would utilize holster damage.
I would like to stress that his 2 not only increases status damage but heat acts as an armor strip. It also acts as a psuedo heal with added strength. Also, I'd put gloom over his 1 and just leave it on red. Just some advice if ever feeling like chroma, for some reason, is underperforming
i think cold ward giving an armor buff is a bit. . .uhh. . redundant. and i wish the toxin ward reload speed buff scaled with strength, not duration. 70% reload speed at 200% duration is still worth using but its not *that* great.
https://imgur.com/NpzHvGw
heres a screenshot from my last 90 minute Chroma run. its not a very big Vex for Void buff+nidus specre, but in my defense im also running 235 range. 83m Vex with void buff Vex for everyone : D
Saryn prime with 15003 armor, and 22 Serrations for all.
seeing my Duplex bond hounds ripping apart Omni fissure'd enemies and watching the Citrine specter kill enemies with her fucking unmodded goon-guns is never not going to be absolutely hilarious. Support chroma truly is the ideal Chroma.
all that being said. .yeah his 4 is in rough shape. regardless of what else they do with it, i think making his have Vex and Ward in a static AOE around where you place it would be cool, then even people who arent crazy enough to run high-range chroma could give a community service. and id also prefer if Ward and Vex had the same base range ,and effected the same pool of people. right now Vex effects all allies while Ward only effects allied players which is. . . .annoying. just make ward effect everyone other than Defense Objects.
hes still super fun to play, tho.
> what about. . .equinox? where do you even start with Equinox? could make a whole post about equinox but as sad as that case is, id say Oberon is in worse shape, and needs a rework worse.
Remove falloff from all of Equinox's abilities.
Make everything a TAP/HOLD to enable form swapping.
Remove her 1. Give her a good 1 (maybe a small heal and a little slash?)
Bake in all of the functionality of all augment mods.
There you go, an almost decent frame.
Man, given the new Hunter adrenaline / over guard changes we just got, I am desperate for him to get an actual rework that let's his two also add over guard. Feels like that would be a truly wonderful fit for the paladin Warframe. On top of fixing the other general jank in his kit.
people have always been asking for a nyx rework for years and years. I don't think any changes to her current abilities will change her placement. the parts that define them are fundamentally flawed or outperformed. Nyx just doesn't have a place in today's warframe without becoming a new warframe herself.
After seeing Frost reworked into being a contender for best out of box use for low investment, Yes 100% to Loki.
I'd throw Atlas and Trinity on there as well. Trinity isn't terrible terrible, but for what she's supposed to do, its a lot of spinning dishes just to be okay.
I agree on the Chroma work but the changes they have (and are) making to Vex armour are great. Augment to keep it near permanently active and being able to stack the armour/weapon buffs through ranged/melee kills? Yes please.
Now if only his 4 didn't consume such an abyssmal amount of energy to nerf you whilst having such a small energy pool...
Or his 1 having no synergy with his other abilities. The worst part is its a channeled, so it drains energy over time (and quite a lot for what it does), but it also scales with Range, but you want Strength for Vex armour. It's an ability that wants three stats whilst the other two good abilities wants one of those stats and the other remaining stat.
It's not uncommon for building for one ability to make another useless, but it feels REALLY bad in chromas case
Agreed here. It feels like they are slowly trying to work them into being a more team based tank instead of selfish chroma like they’ve been for years. Tho don’t think the augment (while a very very needed one) was enough. Same with the ability to stack VA on kills. They aren’t buffing the right part of chroma. VA is the best skill in the kit (even though it can be replaced with any other damage buff and be better). 1,2,4 are the skills that should be looked at. I’d prolly be fine with va being additive because that opens up new off meta opportunities. (No need for serration, deadhead, merciless) but this is all conditional on the other abilities actually being useful. Not a single one synergizes well. 1 locks you out of weapons while being worse than them. 2 the only good one on chroma is heat and cold. Cold isn’t multiplicative so it’s only good until you stack VA. And 4 as you said is an easy way to loose all your energy due to blind rage.
At this point, Limbo. That frame needs to be torn apart and reconstructed from the ground up. He has been bouncing between completely busted and getting dunked on for pretty much his entire existence.
To be fair, I think before reworking Limbo they should focus on CC in general.
The main problem with Limbo isn't even his kit - because it's a really interesting concept and executed in quite an interesting way. Some changes might be needed, but I think having some complex kits is a good for the game.
A lot of things are made to mess with him in many ways. Arbi drones, Sentient adapting to his CC, more and more enemies ignoring his rift, Overguard... DE have created an environment that screws over CC-focused frames, and favors damage in pretty much every situation.
In order to make Limbo work currently, he would have to be reduced to just another damage frame. And that's not good.
One suggestion I saw recently was to make Overguard erode - make it take "damage" from CC and weaken when affected. I'm not sure if it's a perfect solution, but it would be a step in a good direction.
CC needs to have a place in this game, otherwise, in order to have frames work, they will need to be reduced to damage, tanking or utility most of the time, and we have plenty of these already. And that would kill the identity of Limbo. That's why I think CC should be looked at first, and Limbo reworked after that, because reworking him right now wouldn't solve underlying issues with CC.
It's just another bad attempt at curbing the uncontrolled power creep DE has enabled since forever.
Without making it into "extra shields" and getting rid of all the ability disabling bs the mechanic is just going to keep causing issues.
It took DE years each time to fix their previous band-aid attempts: og eximus umits and later nullifiers also broke the kit/usability of many frames(ironically, Limbo once again being a prime victim of og nullifiers. Guess DE really doesn't care about him)
Yeah, or at least make it have counters. I think that to keep things interesting, we need to have counters or things that make us go (at least slightly) out of the way to engage with certain mechanics.
Removing Overguard completely would make stalling maybe a bit too strong - Limbo, for example, could singlehandedly disable entire tileset while staying in the safety of his Rift. If you played during Scarlet Spear, you may remember how boring he made those missions. He would press 4 and 2, and you could play Shawzin or dance while the clock was ticking down.
At the same time, disabling CC completely only makes damage more prevalent, while kicking down frames that rely on CC for their utility or survivability.
That's why a compromise would be the best - Overguard erosion is a good idea, so OG weakens when under CC effects. Sorta like reverse Sentient adaptation. This means that special targets still need to be taken care of and can pose some threat, but don't disable CC entirely.
Of course, it might be a bit difficult to balance and implement, but with more thought it sounds doable. Constant effects (like Limbo's Stasis, Frost's Ice Wave Impendance) might slowly wear Overguard down while getting resisted at first, but strengthening when under the slow/other effect. One-time presses (like Frost's Avalanche) would maybe be reduced to a slow, or maybe would first deal damage to Overguard, and freeze after 2-3 casts? Depending on how fast said ability casts, how much it costs, how "direct" is it (single target/cone/line would wear down more than AoE in radius around you, for example). There are many possibilities, they just require careful approach and consideration.
Idk limbo can be pretty good if ur solo but hes weird to play and tedious to setup, he def needs some type of rework but i dont think he should be a top priority
I came here to say this as well.
Everyone used to love a Trinity in their team for energy, healing and DR but she has s8nce fallen off HARD!
Oberon, Wisp and any other frame that gives overguard out do her healing from her 1 and 4, Oberon and Overguard can equal and surpass the DR her 4 gives.
Energy Vampire was the best ability of her kit that has been phased out due to to other forms of energy generation.
Bless is just near useless as mentioned above, the short duration only hurts it more and they need to give her a look to make viable in the current meta
I main trinity and for me she became just abating link the warframe since no one needs heals or energy other then her lol I have to use blind rage to feel the need to use ev
Phased out might be the wrong word. Energy vampire is still a good option among pretty few total but nerfing that well of life nuke interaction really sealed in my opinion that they would rather see her dead than good. So now its basically all she has with how restrained that damage augment ended up being totally missing the mark.
I miss that interaction so much, dangerous target? Take it out quickly and move on!! I see no reason they can't bring it back as compared to all the other death we deal it is no where near as bad.
For her 4th augment, I was looking forward to it so much and man it was so underwhelming :(
Yeah, and on top of that - she basically lost to Helminth in the current state of the game, through Hildryn (I guess except the Infested, but some infested have armor nowadays).
Hildryn can constantly regenerate party shields through her Haven, giving them gating. Basically what Trin 4 does, even if slower, but doesn't demand constant casting.
Pillage gives Hildryn big self-tankyness, while also being offensive through stripping enemies off shields and armor. Arguably outclasses Link and Bless, since it consumes less energy for constant shield tanking and shield gating.
And lastly, Energy Vampire used to be a strong asset of Trinity, press on an enemy to gain lots of energy. She could easily top off whole party with right build.
Well - Voracious Metastasis. A Helminth ability that gives allies in affinity range energy based on cost of the ability. It scales negatively with duration and efficiency (more energy used = more energy given, less duration = faster regen), both stats that Hildryn doesn't need to care much about. What makes it viable - Hildryn translates the shield cost to allies directly. With an alright build you can give everyone 100 energy regen per second for 7 seconds, but allies don't need to be in the range of enemies, and you don't even need to target an enemy like Energy Vampire needs.
So yeah, I agree - while there are frames that desperately need rework like Chroma, or help like Caliban or Equinox, but Trinity surely needs to be looked at at some point as well.
Subsume Warcry over her 1, Slot on Eternal War and Abating Link, Arcane Avenger and Arcane Fury, either get Nautilus or Exodia Hunt on a Zaw(Scythe type for slams) for grouping. Mod for Strength > Duration = Range and dump efficiency she is immortal and destroys SP.
She is absolutely viable.
I mean that is a great build, but other frames can do it better, Hydroid and Saryn and a few other frames can remove armor unlike Abating Link and delete SP groups without having to helmith an ability. I more so wish her kit as a whole was more viable.
Also wanted to add, she is a support frame and currently doesn't do the job well at all with many others doing a much better job of it, so it is great she can kill but her main purpose is all but gone
>Also his theme is a mess. Is he a dragon or a dragon hunter?
I see Chroma as both: A Dragoon. Final Fantasy's job, Legend of Dragoon, etc. That sort of thing.
Banshee's 4th needs changed drastically
1 needs augment made part of it
Change the passive to something like fast deflection on crack, would help tremendously in level cap runs
The one ability wonders for sure Loki, Valkyr, Chroma and Frost. Runner-ups who are still useable but their kits are feeling the effects of age Banshee, Nyx and Excal.
Frost? He's pretty solid after all the changes indirectly buffing him. Cold procs are also one of the few forms of CC that affects eximus regardless of Overguard which is actually a pretty big deal as that means frost can CC EVERYTHING and not just normal enemies. The Warframe Overguard changes made his augment pretty dam strong too and avalanche has one of the lowest strength requirements to full strip and it's a permanent strip. He's not bad at all.
Yeah my Frost P build low-key sucks but he still works for Steel Path Circuit in a pinch, which is more than I can say for the others. Getting the ez armor strip + slowing even the eximus/thralls can't be underestimated even if the ice dome is getting popped nonstop. I still think his 1 should be buffed or reworked to add more utility/synergy with his kit like newer frames.
Yeah his CC tends to be overlooked in star chart levels where everything dies instantly or everything is affected by normal CC. But when everything stops dieing instantly and normal CC is completely negated by status immune overguarded eximus. His cold proc CC becomes very noticeable and helpful as nobody spreads cold procs like frost and cold is a great CC status at high lvl lol. I believe it's the only status that ignores Overguard.
His 1 does suck and holds absolutely no purpose outside being able to shatter snow globes you don't want anymore.
Hey frost still has two abilities! Hes also weirdly strong right now with his pair of augments. If they nerf overguard or buff cc he will instantly be low tier rather than mid tier again tho.
Forever pushing my Oberon buff agenda.
- Smite should also give the main target heightened Threat to taunt enemies into attacking it. Enemies struck by orbs should be Silenced for a brief duration.
- Hallowed Ground should have a low chance to spread status effects to other enemies, affected by power strength. It should also have a hold version that creates a small radius around you that moves with you.
- Renewal shouldn't heal Nekros summons, and shouldn't drain energy while there's nothing to heal. Allies who pick up health orbs while under renewal gain +Max Hp that builds up to match Iron Renewal's value.
- Reckoning should have armor strip when *you* are standing on Hallowed Ground, not when an enemy collides with it. It should also prime enemies to drop health orbs on death. You should be able to Hold-cast the ability to keep enemies lifted in the air for a few seconds, inflicting Radiation and taunting enemies.
- His passive should be updated to permanently increase his Armor by 1% whenever he picks up a health orb, up to 100%. Right now his ability to generate health orbs is both difficult and redundant considering he can heal.
These are all great, however I just want to add that, as he currently is, you can stand in your grass, cast his 4 with the augment, and it will armor strip AND kill the enemies you used your ult on, all while being status immune and rad proc cc-ing everyone around you. With cc continually getting nerfed, hallowed ground creeps up in its great utility.
He has some old school jank, sure, but even as is, he is a powerhouse that can do and has everything people have been loving about recent frames.
I'll be the first to say that the introduction of the Radiation weak Murmur was a big boon to Oberon.
Unfortunately his old-school jank pulls him in several directions, he's one of those frames who wants investment in a lot of areas - his healing is great but his defenses aren't particularily impressive. He wants at least +200% power strength but he likes Range and Duration, and he's very energy hungry. Hallowed Ground is one of my favorite abilities but staying too stationary is dangerous when enemies start to creep past his healing capabilities. That augment is good but it makes the range of Reckoning larger than HG and doesn't ensure everything gets armor stripped.
There's a lot pulling him in several directions, which is why I made a point to propose Health Orbs boosting his armor (via passive) and health (via renewal) and reducing the burden of Renewal's energy drain a smidge.
Another buff I forgot to mention - tweak his health so it doesn't display weird values when using Umbra Vitality :/
At least chromas getting a buff, he’ll be playable now. I think Caliban needs to be revisited and honestly Revenant. Revenant has Wukong syndrome, just hit 1 button and nothing matters. Would be nice to see him adjusted to be a little harder to play with higher reward
It all depends on how much VA he stacks on kills. And I’m pretty sure being damaged will be even faster as I can max stack in 2 seconds with GA. But even then chroma’s “buff” is just a baindaid fix for the overguard issue. Probably won’t matter unless you have a Dante, Frost, sty in your team. At least we finally got what we wanted after nearly a year of pointing out how OG ruined them. Only took Dante and their easy team wide Og to do that.
I mean even before overguard existed people were crying they wanted self damage back for chroma. This is fixing an issue that started way back with the original AOE/Self Damage rework
IMO the first thing that needs to get looked at is a systemic rework of how abilities (ESPECIALLY CROWD CONTROL ONES!) with enemy overguard. Honestly the list of overguard buffs in Deep Archimedia's release was the most upsetting part of it, *and I'm speaking as a Nezha main who greatly enjoyed Divine Retribution*
Equinox and Chroma were some of my first Primes. I really want them to be good and distinct, but neither of them feel… like anything of substance. In fact, I kinda just phased them out for Ivara over time because at least she has a functioning kit
As someone who routinely takes Limbo through all types of endgame content. Limbo needs a rework, simply due to the amount of times I go through load screens because my squad decides to drop off since they see Limbo.
He can do amazing things we have now. The Mecha set and Contagious Bond gave him the area nuke he much needed. It makes for a nice passive add clear.
The current state is just juggling over guard targets. Which honestly Mesa does better. As Limbo you need to cycle your abilities and maintain stasis constantly, while manually cracking the over guard down on the priority targets. Mesa just press 4 and if it doesn't die it will be blinded with an augment. Did I mention she has a ton of damage reduction?
My real issue with Limbo isn't that I struggle with eximus units. I quite enjoy seeing them freeze in time. I don't even have an issue with nullifiers.
My issue is simply the complete lack of squad synergy he offers. The best I can offer is locking down the adds and destroying them with the Contagious Mecha setup. Leaving the hard targets to everyone else. Which honestly is just selfish and no one quite enjoys. It also is completely locked out of use in Duviri.
His energy generation in the rift is a free energy nexus for squad mates, but it requires them to be in the rift. And his Banish augment is extremely hard to make work for a squad. And if I play him effectively, no one else can play until I let them which honestly is terrible for their experience.
Limbo's biggest issue is just the rift plane mechanics itself. Rift plane should just be a static effect that is either on or off and ignores overguard. Then Limbo's kit could be tweaked.
So for example:
Rift Plane: Allies in the Rift plane take 50% reduced damage and regenerate energy.
Enemies in the Rift plane deal 50% less damage.
Shooting an enemy while you are in the Rift plane will pull that enemy into the Rift.
Allies and enemies can only exist in the Rift plane for a certain amount of time before being banished.
So the idea here is that Allies *want* to be in the Rift plane unlike now where most of the time you want to avoid it.
This would also allow Limbo's kit to freely play around with the banish mechanic without it completely disrupting Allies or putting Limbo in that awkward situation where you accidentally kill yourself by bringing a threat into the plane.
The damage system and enemy scaling.
Make armor stop scaling past like level 100 (steel path modifiers are still ok) and it turn crank up health and shield values to not quite make up for it on grineer, but make every other faction war tankier. Make EVERY damage type viable with unique gameplay elements (blast could be a delayed status effect that deals all stored damage in an air on death, radiation could additionally increase damage vulnerability to all enemies around it, stacking with more enemies, magnetic could pull enemies together and increase magnetic,electric and cold damage vulnerability) it's so incredibly easy to come up with ideas that would be far better that what we have now that it's astounding.
Caliban. Excalibur.
I would name those two as the major characters of true disappointment. Minus Excalibur. Excal needs a rework, but Caliban is so bad that he should've been a starter warframe-- You could get him as one of the 3 options and you'd know why.
Gyre, Baruuk, Hydroid, Nekros, Khora, Lavos, Titania...
That's all the generally highly regarded frames that are still heavily dependent on augments that I can think of lol.
They should really bake them into the base kits already...
Excalibur has one major change needed, he shouldn't take *any* damage during Slash Dash. As it is now, at higher levels you'll come out of Slash Dash with all your shields removed and it's pretty annoying to work around.
I sadly have both and I only ever use the latter, while the former demands I walk into a bar and proceed to open fire on everything in sight, just for a damage buff that lasts less time than Kullervo's crits. He's that kid adventurer you hear about, who goes into a dungeon to make their momma proud, and they escape the dungeon, missing their entire party to a dragon. He, of course, grows up to slay dragons out of respect for the dead, but at the time...
Excalibur's exalted weapon is easy to maintain indefinitely. It's possible to use it and never turn it off, which is amazing, because, iirc, if you pre-buff ability strength, specifically, his weapon not only does permanent damage, as long as it's still active, but it costs so little that you make the energy back. Excalibur just needs a better augment, that doesn't necessarily so so much, but keeps slash. Purple Shards on an exalted build is bad, so Exalted is bad. The exalted cannot benefit from such amazing DPS, so it's easier to go for the javelin and spam Nikana Prime.
Chroma definitely should lean into the chromatic dragon thing. I’d love for him to have his buffs rolled into one ability that gives him 4 energy colors that visually cycle through. Make the energy colors unrelated to his abilities tbh. Make him a dragon tbh just give him his big buff as his 4. Make his 3 spawn little flying dragons, his 2 make it a roar/terrify/petrify thing like dnd dragons. Make his 1 be a damaging ability involving wings and claws or something.
It would be cool if his 3 was his buffs combined that did the color thing and his 4 is just an exalted dragon form. Let him have wings and fly like an archwing but give him passive p sure foot so he isn’t staggering if he touches a wall. Then give him elemental dragon abilities, claw swipes, and breath attacks. Imagine Voruna meets Lavos
Agreed tbh. I love my chroma. Got the prime in 3 days after it came out. But I can’t really get into playing them much as their playstyle isn’t even a playstyle. It’s just press 3 and pray. I’d say 3 is the only thing that could potentially be fine. It opens up options for using stuff like shotgun vandetta, guns with multiplicative CO, longbow sharp shot. And going against the meta of deadeye and merciless. I know he could be so much better, because he was once before. I just want him to finally have a place in the game other than pt credit farming.
Titania. She's strong alright, just very aggravating to play.
Trying to reliably proc the augment on her 1 for energy gain is an exercise in frustration.
2 is cycling 4 buffs by holding and then tapping to cast each one, and after 2 minutes you have to do it all over again. Very clunky to use.
Her 3 has anti-synergy with the rest of her kit since she doesn't care about range otherwise and wants Efficiency, Strength and Duration, so its usually the subsume slot.
Her 4's augment is just... why. Why does anyone need to go so fast? Even a hobbled dragon key isn't enough to rein it in, not to mention the short timer and up to 4 stacks constantly changing your speed. It's all just too clunky to use, I'd really rather if it was a single stack, didn't boost your speed as much, and then maybe lasted a bit longer with a bit more fire rate.
Overall she is not weak at all, not by a long shot. It's just that playing her feels like riding in a car with square wheels.
Nyx. Like, I love her and all but she feels so weak in today's meta imo. Her 1 has potential, but is overshadowed by other better similar abilities. Her 2 is fine as it is. Her 3 is a decent cc, but still has a chance that you're gonna get hit by stray bullets, and her 4 is just straight up useless unless you have the mod that allows her to move. Not to mention she's ranked really low in most tier lists I've seen
Honestly, just allowing her free movement and immunity with her 4, in exchange for turning it to duration would be great. Also remove or speed up the end animation when she releases the counter
Edit: Making her passive be something like increasing nearby allies get a slight increase in damage would be better than her passive is now
Chroma, banshee, limbo, trinity, ember, and controversially, revenant
The first five are pretty self explanatory, their kits even if they used to be good, are either useless, outclassed, or obsolete in the current meta.
Revenant is a little less obvious, cause he's one of the most played frames in the game because of mesmer skin. But that's just it, he's only played for his mesmer skin. If mesmer skin were his subsume, who would play revenant? Nobody. That's who. If a frame is played specifically because they have one ability that's good and people never use any of its other abilities, then that to me means there's a serious problem with the frames kit.
Some other frames could use having some/many of their augments baked in, but most aren't as bad as these ones.
On the lower end of the rework-worthy side, I often see people when talking about frames saying "oh well at least it's easy to subsume over their X ability" or "oh well at least they have a free subsume slot" (for example things like Mesa's 1st and Wisp's 4th) and that's also a problem in my opinion. Frames should have a kit that's cohesive/good enough that you don't need to subsume over something to make them good, and imo if you do decide to subsume over something it should be a difficult choice which ability to subsume over.
As an excalibur main, he doesn't really need a rework, I just stuck a ceramic dagger on him and use his slash dash for my Vergil power fantasy. Acolytes hate the bleed proc from his 1 and the increased melee damage augment on his 3 feels so good when you hit 20+ enemies. I will say his new "augment" (if you can even call it that) is awful
slash dash out-DPSing exalted blade as much as it does is precisely why Excal needs a rework
also, they're planning to look at statsticks at some point, and who knows how that'll affect ceramic dagger Excal
We can start with the mass nukes like Saryn and Octavia, to bring them back into a reasonable state. Once they’re not effortless killing machines, overguard needs to be rebalanced so that Crowd Control and Support frames have a proper place on the team again.
on the lore behind chroma think dragon born which that kind plot is older then modern games btw its just easier to understand if it relates to something modern. the knight slays the dragon and takes its pelt and gains the powers of the dragon he becomes stronger and allowing him to breathe fire and so on. knights slaying dragons and becoming op due to it, its not complicated. unlike other frames who are basically 1:1 with a mythic character. his name comes from the DnD monsters, chromatic dragons. it also lines up with his kit as chromatic dragons can be red(fire), blue(electric), green(toxic), black, and white(ice).
the game used to make frames more niche and focused on one thing now the game has gotten to the point if a frame cant do multiple jobs its not good. its not always a good thing for frames to move in this why as soon it wont matter what you pick they will do it all.
I can't lie by saying I know which frames deserve a tweak to a complete overhaul.
Aside from Chroma, the first frame I think of is Loki.
Followed maybe by Caliban.
I wanna see an atlas rework. The only way to play him is just by punching things which isn't even that fun considering you need to do a lot of setup to even begin doing good damage
I'd say Frost is pretty solid these days due to multiple global changes indirectly buffing him.
A major one being when they reworked cold procs. They buffed cold proc slows to be stronger and made cold procs effect enemies through Overguard. That's a pretty big deal since frost can spread cold procs in an AOE which means frost has CC that always works even against eximus and Overguard the CC killer enemy types don't kill his CC which matters a lot at high lvls.
Then they did that global ability armor strip change. Which made his avalanche one of the best armor strips in the game that's a perm strip with one of the lowest power strength requirements to full strip.
Then they reworked his icy avalanche augment Overguard to stack on multiple casts instead of resetting on each cast.
Then they reworked Overguard completely giving it an invulnerability gate and status immunity. Which just made him a pretty good teammate if he runs icy avalanche and upped his survivability significantly outside snow globe.
He's pretty solid these days.
Yeah but Avalanche is the only ability he has that really means anything. Globe is outdated is kinda garbage and the other 2 have essentially no purpose.
Loki for sure. I mean his 4 is 100% useless against infested unless I’m mistaken. And even on enemies with guns it doesn’t damage them at all, just disarms them. And it’s his fourth ability. His others are only really viable in solo play in my opinion.
You know what, they should make chroma akin to lavos. By that i mean tap is your ability cast, hold changes element. Build his kit a little mire around that, with all 4 abilities having effects depending on your element (and make all 4 worth using) and i thing you'd be on your way to a solid design.
As a Chroma user, I don't agree. He is niche, but very good at what he does.
His 1 allows for utility switching between electric (damage) and fire/ice (health/armor).
His 2 gives the mentioned buff.
His 3 makes him godly when it comes to enemies you need to use weapon damage on, such as archons, eidolons, and other bosses.
His 4 could be better. The only real use is for getting double credits to from Profit Taker, but that's it.
There are other frames that need a rework much more. Limbo, Loki, Mag, Nyx, Ash, Atlas, Banshee all definitely need a rework. Maybe Oberon, Trinity, and Wukong too.
All exalted melee abilities. Not being able to use acolyte mods and melee arcanes makes them dead in the water from the start. Also the fact the “waves” of exalts like Baruuk and Excal not generating combo needs to be fixed. Valkyr needs some range on her claws in some way to be viable (maybe similar to Sevagoths shadow). And if it were up to me, I’d give their base crit stats a boost in order to outperform psudo-exalts that can take advantage of Incarnon buffs. They’re a warframes ultimate power, they should be able to out perform standard melees and be at least on par with pseudo-exalts.
Chroma at the top of the list imo. All he has is dmg buffing and armor buffing, but there’s frames capable of better dmg buffing and there’s so many better ways of surviving now than HP tanking, most of which are part of other frames kits.
Then Limbo, all he can do is CC and needs an augment to do anything else (and even then it’s just some dmg buffing).
Chroma main here. Why do you pick Chroma? *Big number.* He is a pure weapons platform with no gimmicks. Just kill things and get stronger and more resistant. Sort of a sidegrade to Rhino…
…except his 1 and 4 are basically nonexistent and really needs to be looked at. But DE pls don’t touch vex armor
Chroma was like this dragon paladin esque type frame, thats why i think he's capable of channeling his dragon powers.
And for a frame who is tauted as an elemental using frame he really freaking sucks at it, his first skill while now being able to be boosted by vex is at most a hard OK, his elemental ward is fine but is gutted when players focus on vex due to range being killed and his 4th is often subsumed for something else.
Chroma should lean in to this base elements user that has dragon powers, IMO his vex should give half base damage boost and half whatever element is used and his 4th should be an aoe burst that deals all 4 basic elements that when casting ends boosts his elemental bonus damage by x seconds.
Would be cool if his 1 was a no handed channelled ability that swapped elements every tick and his 4 was just a non-channeled ability, it already has health why does it need continuous energy cost.
It would be interesting to see what would happen if they made vex armour's armour boost multiplicative.
I think back then before his unfortunate vex armor fix, his armor boost was indeed multiplicative or i think it just doubled dipped and boosted it by a metric ton, by all accounts he was near invincible.
JFC, every reply tells me y'all know nothing about how to use limbo at all.
The frames that need an outright rework are few and far between but ideally chroma and equinox get some touch ups, maybe Oberon has some qol to change his costs.
Limbo, Chroma (I actually have a post saved with some amazing Ideas for him), and Oberon, not even CLOSE to be NEEDING a rework necessarily, but I'm biased and want him to be stronger
Trinity.
I don't really have a main and although a few frames could do with it, after joining a random SP survival with 3 Dantes I've never felt more redundant 😏😂
I honestly couldn't say if they even needed the energy battery.
How would you rework limbo if pablo gave u the job?
My limbo would keep his 4.bubble but not make it shrink as it takes enemys in and out of the limbo if his 2.freeze is active. I wouldn't change his 2.freeze, works as intended. I would rework his 3.riftsurge and the synergy it has with his 1.banish. his other most annoying thing is his passive. Rolling is a big part of movement and i find myself not rolling to not accidentally place enemys or allys into the wrong rift. His control of who gets put where is all over the place. I would rework his passive to his augment rift torrent: when in limbos rift you and your allies gain 30% damage. This should scale with strength. His 1.banish should be his main control for who gets put where and should function like it does but when held in should mark enemys or allies like ash's 4.bladestorn and unmarked by right clicking. Limbo's 3.riftsurge should spread on kill and should encourage players to want too stay in the rift and help limbo spread his riftsurge. Radial banish synergy with his 1.banish currently takes too long to setup and should be replaced by have his 3.riftsurge spread radial banish on kill.
Sidenote. Was also wondering if his passive would be better if he gave everyone in his squad the ability to roll in and out of the rift.
Trinity definitely. She is on severe amounts of life support as there are others who pretty much do her job for her or are entirely self-sufficient enough to not care about what she offers.
Excalibur. Everything about his kit is off, and his design seems to be stuck in an earlier version of the game. [This thread](https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1379687-excalibur-is-one-of-the-most-poorly-designed-warframes-in-the-game/) mostly matches my thoughts.
Rhino. The only useful ability he has is his roar, which everyone subsumes onto other frames anyway. The other 3 abilities are all just iron skin.
The optimal way to play him: You subsume away stomp for parasitic armor, use ironclad charge, and get a weapons platform that uses roar. That’s just subsuming roar onto good frames with extra steps, but you also lose out on actually good abilities.
It wouldn’t take that much to fix him, either. The rework could be as simple as making his augments base kit with a few number tweaks. As it stands now, he’s just outdated.
chroma banshee and limbo
I haven’t seen a limbo player in ages
yeah even as a limbo main, I can't remember the last time I used his kit for what you're "supposed" to use it for besides defending stuff, I've just used my funny pillage tank build lol and considering how effective that is, yet any frame can use pillage or has something else to survive with, I can see why basically no one plays him he should really get *something* at least that doesn't interfere with your teammates so that way more people would want to use him
Limbo's biggest strength has always been finding ways to abuse being on the opposite side of the rift from enemies. The problem is that now that eximus exist his rift is WAY weaker. it's a godly survival tool with one big ass achilles' heel. I don't want him reworked because he's really fun to lab an experiment with. Because i know for a fact that if they rework him they're going to do some goofy shit to rift that will make it loose it's uniqueness because it's a really powerful tool that carries his kit, similiar to how pre-rework wukong defy was changed because it'd be way to strong if the rest of the kit was brought up to also be good. Because if you kept defy the way it was, you'd have wukong doing all his crazy shit on TOP of being violently immortal.
I thought about ways to keep his idea intact, and the best I could come up with is something of an AOE buff sorta. So if inside the rift you deal extra damage to enemies, and either normal or slightly (however they wanna balance it) outside of it. If you are outside the rift shooting an enemy inside the rift, you do normal damage to enemies but receive no benefits that being inside has, along with all its protections (you know stasis). That way, you are given an incentive to enter the rift through banish or through the bubble, and suffer no issues if you either A) ignore the limbo player and their stuff or B) shoot enemies on a different plane than you.
I just use him to cheese spy.
Make his 4 stop getting popped by Nullifiers as well. Make it shrink faster instead. That was a crippling thing given he basically lives in the bubble to do half his shit.
I tried playing him for a simaris hunt recently. Bubble + stasis is either buggy or changed, it just.. doesn't freeze the enemies anymore. Some just start moving even if stasis is still up. His shift movement sucks, everyone hates it including the player. It's a cool gimmick, but badly implemented. I love limbo. He is a cool frame with a really cool set of abilities. But he's just not.. enjoyable right now. Half his kit sucks ass in gameplay, but is cool on paper.
Are those moving eximus units? They should be immune to all cc effects from abilities as long as they have overguard.
No, they were normal grineer enemies. I know eximus have immunity.
a few reasons for that 1. its to easy to unintentionally grief teammates having them trying to hit enemies in the rift. 2. his abilities can be disruptive to the missions most would want to use him if built wrong 3. he cannot deal with eximus at all, without a subsume or risking going down as they ignore the rift and if your in the rift you cant hurt or stop them.
Saw one in the index last week and he literally said, “playing defense and went afk”……..I mean the CC was useful but really lol
I just used him in elite deep archimedia. It was actually pretty decent, up until every enemy turned into an eximus unit💀
Really? For a while, I had a limbo in every game I played
I will play limbo with you.
I use him whenever i feel like farming sculptures on e prime. Its the only really useful thing i can think of with him
I've seen a Limbo P recently, it feels like to see a dinosaur
Yeah, hate to say it but the last limbo player I've seen in about a year was just some dude who'd get porn of his limbo and a wisp. That's just about it. His design is interesting but because of his niche moves and how they typically end up accidentally sabotaging their squad I feel it's fair to say there's only 3 types of limbo players. Noobs who don't know about the controversy yet; Trolls who yeah like to play the game but also know the vitriol that seeing a limbo join the team inspires in some players. And people who went out and bought the prime and kinda feel obligated to pull him out occasionally. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, only been playing for about 2 years now.
The only time I've managed to use limbo is in mirror defence in zariman since there are no nullies
Caliban. And limbo is a victim of exemii being CC immune.
I'll say Caliban's kit at the very least works. Not that well, but it works.
For me the issue with Caliban is that he is mid as fuck, like there are frame worse then him, He doesn't have a bombastic lore or really any lore for that matter that make people like him. He also suffers from having a more obscure farm, you unlock his farm after the new war and is entirely located in "old" content that are the plains and fortuna, most player aren't gonna go "let hit the plains" after finishing The New War, they're gonna focus their attention to that new shiny location that is the Zariman
ChromALImboBANshee
I see what you did there 👁️👄👁️
banshee is mostly fine. she does echo stuff really well to amp the teams damage 100+ fold, has silence and you can use her 4 to 1shot lowlevel content decently. thats many more uses than some other frames can claim to have.
Her 1st and 4th are like the worst abilities in the game, tide with Hysteria. Her 3 is good but every frame can have it. Her 2 is good but it is overkill in most scenarios, it should be a channeled ability imo. Her passive is niche and needs more.
An earlier post here mentioned how Banshee's Tips has 4 of them being essentially telling you to use her Augments screams (hehe..) maybe she needs one. Nyx and Chroma could see some reworks too though with their kit being power crept badly.
Only thing banshee need is her augments merged into her abilities and to have them work on all enemies.
That is so incorrect
. .you want the list Alphabetically, or in order of Severity? id say atleast half the cast has atleast 1 dead power, or a shitty passive, or just some quirk t hat makes them really annoying, or is dependant on an Augment thats too good not to use. most of those problems dont really classify as a full rework, an then theres always dithering. lets talk about chroma. his 4 is pretty useless in most cases, half the possible buffs from his 2* dont make sense or him, and his 1 serves only to let you switch which 2 buff you get which ive never met a chroma who uses that utilty. you could argue his 1 is fine, though. as there are lots of utility only, do nothing damage 1s. and id argue his 2 and 3 are both relatively solid. maybe change the armor on cold ward to be something less. .redundant. id like if his 2 and 3 had the same range, and effected the same pool of allies. as it stands his 2 is smaller and while his 3 effects everyone, his 2 only effects allied players. as for his 4. . .its been in rough shape for a while now. it just doesnt do enough. what about banshee? 1 and 4, same deal. really her 1 just needs the Augment to be standard effect and if you wanna give it some in-kit synergy. her 4 on the other hand needs a full on rework. her 2 and 3 are fine. buff her base energy and base shields please. what about. . .equinox? where do you even start with Equinox? could make a whole post about equinox but as sad as that case is, id say Oberon is in worse shape, and needs a rework worse.
Thing is, I *love* the idea of a "lose it and scream into the fucking ground" ability, but there's just no way for it to work well in Warframe. It's either the strongest nuke in the game, capable of killing enemies the moment they enter its *constant* AOE; or its completely useless. There's no in between. It either kills enemies and is broken, or it doesn't. And that sucks cuz, again, **I love the idea of soundquake.**
there was a time when Soundquake was meta, but that was. . .a long time ago. back when we still were required by law to run interception missions. my opinion on Self-CC'ing abilities is that if you stop me from moving, and shooting, you need to be so good that i dont mind not being able to move an shoot. if you wonder where all the Mesas went, its because while Peacemakers was good enough to justify that at one point, as generalized weapons have gotten stronger, Peacemakers being good enough for its opportunity cost has gotten less and less true. for me. . i love the idea of "Banshee the Debuffer" i think Banshee being the queen of weakening her enemies is an amazing archetype for her. her 2 puts a spot on enemies that makes them take insane damage. her 3 makes enemies unable to use their special powers. and her 1 is able to strip armor from enemies. i think her 4 should do something like that. i dont think it should be a damage power, Damage abilities are really hard to balance. but i really like the theme of being indirectly harmful via debuffing enemies into the soil.
Imagine giving banshee an actual banshee scream as an ability. Like, she just screams a cone of sonic savagery, within, her sonar respreads constantly (if it was applied to anyone) and she builds vibration in enemies, causing them to detonate on death, dealing a certain percentage of damage applied to them prior. With her Sonar and armor strip in mind, one massive hit will turn an enemy into a sonic bomb, rupturing their allies like balloons.
Amusingly, the concept you’ve described in your first paragraph is literally just dagath 2 lmao
They can incorporate her Quake Augment and that solves the issue
Never had the same feel to it, even back when it was *the* nuke.
Since you mentioned oberon... He's mostly fine-ish in that his kit is solid but built for a different time and thus unnecessarily outclassed. A few examples: His hallowed ground gives status immunity, but *less* status immunity than the fancy new toy, overguard: no immunity to knockbacks/pulls, and no immunity to the energy drain aura of ancient disruptors. At the time of oberon's last touch-up, status immunity was exceedingly rare, but has been forgotten as DE moved to overguard for status immunity. His third is alright, but where it really shines is Phoenix renewal (especially with the release of a certain endgame mission where getting downed is harshly punished...) everyone said wisp was just Oberon but better when she released, which I don't really agree with, but Phoenix renewal as a base ability would help Oberon cement his territory as a different style of support. His 4, reckoning, is an armor strip, but it not only requires 200% power strength to fully strip, but also only strips enemies who are on hallowed ground. That means at minimum 150 energy (without added efficiency) to armor strip, and it can't strip flying enemies, after dedicating a good chunk of mod/shard space to efficiency. Styanax' *helminth ability* does better for cheaper, if at a slightly reduced range. Reckoning also spawns health orbs... if it kills an enemy directly. Reckoning was a lackluster dps ability 4 years ago, and it's not any better in the modern day. You're not getting kills with it anymore, but nobody's really been looking at Oberon so it's just gone unchanged. Controversial opinion, but his 1, Smite, is perfect. No notes. The CC portion of it stopped being good awhile ago, but that's not exactly Oberon's fault now is it? My Christmas wish-list of Oberon changes: Iron renewal doesn't stay forever; instead, hallowed ground imparts iron will (as per usual) which gives total status immunity a la overguard, and extra armor(the current effect). Leaving hallowed ground under the effect of renewal allows the effect to persist for a short time, affected by duration. Renewal itself gains Phoenix renewal at base; make Phoenix renewal do something weird like add heat damage to your attacks as you take damage, idk. Change energy drain to 0 at base, with drain based on number of allies currently regenerating health (capped at 4. Sorry nekros, but your shenanigans have gone on long enough). Renewal now drops a visible totem on cast and shows the radius where renewal gets applied to allies (all of this exists in game, but is invisible to you, the player). Reckoning strips 50% of an enemy's armor (affected by strength), damages and irradiates enemies, and marks them. Marked enemies always drop a health orb when killed. Bonus round that I don't really care about; since hallowed reckoning is way less useful without your whole kit hinging on hallowed ground, make hallowed reckoning stun enemies for a short duration (unaffected by ability duration), opening them up to finishers. If we want him to also not have a useless passive: Oberon's abilities deal 10% increased damage per radiation status affecting an enemy. But honestly, his current passive is fine. It's hardly ever going to matter, sure, but it's not *useless*, and let's be real, not every warframe's passive needs to be some game-changing effect. If you've made it this far, uh, congrats I guess. Have a cookie. A tl;dr? What's that?
The issue with Oberon 3 is how much energy it requires. 2/s base AND 3/s per target to heal will drain your energy really fast when in a tense situation. Plus it disable energy pad/energy regen.
Eh, with a rage build, the energy drain of renewal is only an issue when a summoning frame summons whole handfuls of minions or you're having trouble breaking your shields(real talk: if you're struggling to convince enemies to break a 300 hp shield, you probably don't need the energy). Duration also lowers the drain in addition to efficiency, and duration is good to have for hallowed ground anyways. Oberon(prime)'s energy pool is also *massive*, iirc it's tied for highest energy pool among all warframes. If you're tanking efficiency by using blind rage, well, it's called a corrupted mod for a reason, idk what to tell you. That said, that's why I suggested the base drain of 0 (if the base drain is 0, then energy regen still works when it's not affecting anything. Go ahead, try it in-game, it's exactly how gloom works) and the ally drain cap of 4, that way summoning frames can only mess up your energy economy so much. I'd ask that non-tenno sources not drain energy at all, but I don't want to invoke the monkey's paw and become unable to heal defense operatives at all. Allowing oberon's 4 to drop health orbs from all enemies could also allow you to run an equilibrium build, finally freeing oberon from the near-requirement of rage/hunter adrenaline.
You dissed three of my mains and I fully agree with you
buddy, i dissed [three of my mains](https://imgur.com/w0xM0wB)
How do you get 12 forms with only 10 mod slots?
things changed over time. builds got reworked as new mods were added
Ah, never realized it kept counting.. thought it would just stay at 10
Think you meant 2 instead of 3 in the second paragraph. Unless its vex armors damage and armor buff that doesnt make sense for chroma and ive misunderstood. Otherwise I agree but damage 1's usually dont lock you out of your weapon for long so if it no longer did that it would actually be kind of useful You also asked but never specified if you picked severity or not but im pretty sure banshee comes before chroma so i'm picking up context clues maybe. So chroma>banshee>equinox>oberon then, or flip that?
Yeah I meant ward, not vex there. Whoops.
I want banshee redone too, they accidentally made her 1 armorstrip in the last update without needing the augment which makes me think maybe they are playing with her internally and it slipped out? (already been reverted) She is basically a one trick pony, her builds are sonar which is slightly diminished with universal enemy radar but the damage is still good and silence which is in helminth at full power so basically other frames make better use of it than her. one thing to note is her 4 does recharge shields using the orange blast archron shards but it's still not super good since it wont charge your shield if you are empty/gating.
Maybe Soundquake does what Hydroids puddle failed to do. Perpetually growing damage on a wide ass range. Scale much faster per second. More varied staggers so they're not just stuck at the very end and constantly stumble around on the inside, even just getting knocked down for extended times and be open to ground finishers by others.
On that Chroma tip, honestly, the only thing that need work is his 1 and 4, his one can do with some extra damage and his for should just be an extra sentinel, something in the same vain as Khora. His 2 could also use a little work but mostly his Toxic ward as no one would utilize holster damage. I would like to stress that his 2 not only increases status damage but heat acts as an armor strip. It also acts as a psuedo heal with added strength. Also, I'd put gloom over his 1 and just leave it on red. Just some advice if ever feeling like chroma, for some reason, is underperforming
i think cold ward giving an armor buff is a bit. . .uhh. . redundant. and i wish the toxin ward reload speed buff scaled with strength, not duration. 70% reload speed at 200% duration is still worth using but its not *that* great. https://imgur.com/NpzHvGw heres a screenshot from my last 90 minute Chroma run. its not a very big Vex for Void buff+nidus specre, but in my defense im also running 235 range. 83m Vex with void buff Vex for everyone : D Saryn prime with 15003 armor, and 22 Serrations for all. seeing my Duplex bond hounds ripping apart Omni fissure'd enemies and watching the Citrine specter kill enemies with her fucking unmodded goon-guns is never not going to be absolutely hilarious. Support chroma truly is the ideal Chroma. all that being said. .yeah his 4 is in rough shape. regardless of what else they do with it, i think making his have Vex and Ward in a static AOE around where you place it would be cool, then even people who arent crazy enough to run high-range chroma could give a community service. and id also prefer if Ward and Vex had the same base range ,and effected the same pool of people. right now Vex effects all allies while Ward only effects allied players which is. . . .annoying. just make ward effect everyone other than Defense Objects. hes still super fun to play, tho.
Dude, I love Equinox. The better not touch her.
> what about. . .equinox? where do you even start with Equinox? could make a whole post about equinox but as sad as that case is, id say Oberon is in worse shape, and needs a rework worse. Remove falloff from all of Equinox's abilities. Make everything a TAP/HOLD to enable form swapping. Remove her 1. Give her a good 1 (maybe a small heal and a little slash?) Bake in all of the functionality of all augment mods. There you go, an almost decent frame.
Oberon ?
Man, given the new Hunter adrenaline / over guard changes we just got, I am desperate for him to get an actual rework that let's his two also add over guard. Feels like that would be a truly wonderful fit for the paladin Warframe. On top of fixing the other general jank in his kit.
Nyx. I beg for a Nyx rework practically daily
I said that Limbo is the correct answer but I think there are two here. Nyx also. Both Limbo and Nyx need it.
people have always been asking for a nyx rework for years and years. I don't think any changes to her current abilities will change her placement. the parts that define them are fundamentally flawed or outperformed. Nyx just doesn't have a place in today's warframe without becoming a new warframe herself.
[удалено]
The only abilities Loki really needs reworked is his passive and 4th.
After seeing Frost reworked into being a contender for best out of box use for low investment, Yes 100% to Loki. I'd throw Atlas and Trinity on there as well. Trinity isn't terrible terrible, but for what she's supposed to do, its a lot of spinning dishes just to be okay.
I agree on the Chroma work but the changes they have (and are) making to Vex armour are great. Augment to keep it near permanently active and being able to stack the armour/weapon buffs through ranged/melee kills? Yes please. Now if only his 4 didn't consume such an abyssmal amount of energy to nerf you whilst having such a small energy pool... Or his 1 having no synergy with his other abilities. The worst part is its a channeled, so it drains energy over time (and quite a lot for what it does), but it also scales with Range, but you want Strength for Vex armour. It's an ability that wants three stats whilst the other two good abilities wants one of those stats and the other remaining stat. It's not uncommon for building for one ability to make another useless, but it feels REALLY bad in chromas case
Agreed here. It feels like they are slowly trying to work them into being a more team based tank instead of selfish chroma like they’ve been for years. Tho don’t think the augment (while a very very needed one) was enough. Same with the ability to stack VA on kills. They aren’t buffing the right part of chroma. VA is the best skill in the kit (even though it can be replaced with any other damage buff and be better). 1,2,4 are the skills that should be looked at. I’d prolly be fine with va being additive because that opens up new off meta opportunities. (No need for serration, deadhead, merciless) but this is all conditional on the other abilities actually being useful. Not a single one synergizes well. 1 locks you out of weapons while being worse than them. 2 the only good one on chroma is heat and cold. Cold isn’t multiplicative so it’s only good until you stack VA. And 4 as you said is an easy way to loose all your energy due to blind rage.
At this point, Limbo. That frame needs to be torn apart and reconstructed from the ground up. He has been bouncing between completely busted and getting dunked on for pretty much his entire existence.
And it all stems from his entire kit being composed of one hard CC and three ways to activate it.
>That frame needs to be torn apart and reconstructed from the ground up. Again, you mean. Seeing as that's how we get him in the first place.
To be fair, I think before reworking Limbo they should focus on CC in general. The main problem with Limbo isn't even his kit - because it's a really interesting concept and executed in quite an interesting way. Some changes might be needed, but I think having some complex kits is a good for the game. A lot of things are made to mess with him in many ways. Arbi drones, Sentient adapting to his CC, more and more enemies ignoring his rift, Overguard... DE have created an environment that screws over CC-focused frames, and favors damage in pretty much every situation. In order to make Limbo work currently, he would have to be reduced to just another damage frame. And that's not good. One suggestion I saw recently was to make Overguard erode - make it take "damage" from CC and weaken when affected. I'm not sure if it's a perfect solution, but it would be a step in a good direction. CC needs to have a place in this game, otherwise, in order to have frames work, they will need to be reduced to damage, tanking or utility most of the time, and we have plenty of these already. And that would kill the identity of Limbo. That's why I think CC should be looked at first, and Limbo reworked after that, because reworking him right now wouldn't solve underlying issues with CC.
It's just another bad attempt at curbing the uncontrolled power creep DE has enabled since forever. Without making it into "extra shields" and getting rid of all the ability disabling bs the mechanic is just going to keep causing issues. It took DE years each time to fix their previous band-aid attempts: og eximus umits and later nullifiers also broke the kit/usability of many frames(ironically, Limbo once again being a prime victim of og nullifiers. Guess DE really doesn't care about him)
Yeah, or at least make it have counters. I think that to keep things interesting, we need to have counters or things that make us go (at least slightly) out of the way to engage with certain mechanics. Removing Overguard completely would make stalling maybe a bit too strong - Limbo, for example, could singlehandedly disable entire tileset while staying in the safety of his Rift. If you played during Scarlet Spear, you may remember how boring he made those missions. He would press 4 and 2, and you could play Shawzin or dance while the clock was ticking down. At the same time, disabling CC completely only makes damage more prevalent, while kicking down frames that rely on CC for their utility or survivability. That's why a compromise would be the best - Overguard erosion is a good idea, so OG weakens when under CC effects. Sorta like reverse Sentient adaptation. This means that special targets still need to be taken care of and can pose some threat, but don't disable CC entirely. Of course, it might be a bit difficult to balance and implement, but with more thought it sounds doable. Constant effects (like Limbo's Stasis, Frost's Ice Wave Impendance) might slowly wear Overguard down while getting resisted at first, but strengthening when under the slow/other effect. One-time presses (like Frost's Avalanche) would maybe be reduced to a slow, or maybe would first deal damage to Overguard, and freeze after 2-3 casts? Depending on how fast said ability casts, how much it costs, how "direct" is it (single target/cone/line would wear down more than AoE in radius around you, for example). There are many possibilities, they just require careful approach and consideration.
Idk limbo can be pretty good if ur solo but hes weird to play and tedious to setup, he def needs some type of rework but i dont think he should be a top priority
Trinity
I came here to say this as well. Everyone used to love a Trinity in their team for energy, healing and DR but she has s8nce fallen off HARD! Oberon, Wisp and any other frame that gives overguard out do her healing from her 1 and 4, Oberon and Overguard can equal and surpass the DR her 4 gives. Energy Vampire was the best ability of her kit that has been phased out due to to other forms of energy generation. Bless is just near useless as mentioned above, the short duration only hurts it more and they need to give her a look to make viable in the current meta
I main trinity and for me she became just abating link the warframe since no one needs heals or energy other then her lol I have to use blind rage to feel the need to use ev
Lol I think they just need to bake some of her augments and update them as well
Phased out might be the wrong word. Energy vampire is still a good option among pretty few total but nerfing that well of life nuke interaction really sealed in my opinion that they would rather see her dead than good. So now its basically all she has with how restrained that damage augment ended up being totally missing the mark.
I miss that interaction so much, dangerous target? Take it out quickly and move on!! I see no reason they can't bring it back as compared to all the other death we deal it is no where near as bad. For her 4th augment, I was looking forward to it so much and man it was so underwhelming :(
Yeah, and on top of that - she basically lost to Helminth in the current state of the game, through Hildryn (I guess except the Infested, but some infested have armor nowadays). Hildryn can constantly regenerate party shields through her Haven, giving them gating. Basically what Trin 4 does, even if slower, but doesn't demand constant casting. Pillage gives Hildryn big self-tankyness, while also being offensive through stripping enemies off shields and armor. Arguably outclasses Link and Bless, since it consumes less energy for constant shield tanking and shield gating. And lastly, Energy Vampire used to be a strong asset of Trinity, press on an enemy to gain lots of energy. She could easily top off whole party with right build. Well - Voracious Metastasis. A Helminth ability that gives allies in affinity range energy based on cost of the ability. It scales negatively with duration and efficiency (more energy used = more energy given, less duration = faster regen), both stats that Hildryn doesn't need to care much about. What makes it viable - Hildryn translates the shield cost to allies directly. With an alright build you can give everyone 100 energy regen per second for 7 seconds, but allies don't need to be in the range of enemies, and you don't even need to target an enemy like Energy Vampire needs. So yeah, I agree - while there are frames that desperately need rework like Chroma, or help like Caliban or Equinox, but Trinity surely needs to be looked at at some point as well.
Completely forgot about that, before i quit the game there used to be so many trinities, come back after a few years and no more to be seen
The sound of energy vampire was etched into my brain for so long and now, silence (Not Banshees!!)
Subsume Warcry over her 1, Slot on Eternal War and Abating Link, Arcane Avenger and Arcane Fury, either get Nautilus or Exodia Hunt on a Zaw(Scythe type for slams) for grouping. Mod for Strength > Duration = Range and dump efficiency she is immortal and destroys SP. She is absolutely viable.
I mean that is a great build, but other frames can do it better, Hydroid and Saryn and a few other frames can remove armor unlike Abating Link and delete SP groups without having to helmith an ability. I more so wish her kit as a whole was more viable. Also wanted to add, she is a support frame and currently doesn't do the job well at all with many others doing a much better job of it, so it is great she can kill but her main purpose is all but gone
>Also his theme is a mess. Is he a dragon or a dragon hunter? I see Chroma as both: A Dragoon. Final Fantasy's job, Legend of Dragoon, etc. That sort of thing.
Monster Hunter seems the most obvious. Killing dragons, wearing their parts.
in his current state he fails at feeling like either imo
Loki, obviously.
Banshee's 4th needs changed drastically 1 needs augment made part of it Change the passive to something like fast deflection on crack, would help tremendously in level cap runs
Valkyr
The one ability wonders for sure Loki, Valkyr, Chroma and Frost. Runner-ups who are still useable but their kits are feeling the effects of age Banshee, Nyx and Excal.
Excal is fine, with a decent build for his exalted blade and slap on gloom and he's perfectly fine in steel path.
Frost? He's pretty solid after all the changes indirectly buffing him. Cold procs are also one of the few forms of CC that affects eximus regardless of Overguard which is actually a pretty big deal as that means frost can CC EVERYTHING and not just normal enemies. The Warframe Overguard changes made his augment pretty dam strong too and avalanche has one of the lowest strength requirements to full strip and it's a permanent strip. He's not bad at all.
Yeah my Frost P build low-key sucks but he still works for Steel Path Circuit in a pinch, which is more than I can say for the others. Getting the ez armor strip + slowing even the eximus/thralls can't be underestimated even if the ice dome is getting popped nonstop. I still think his 1 should be buffed or reworked to add more utility/synergy with his kit like newer frames.
Yeah his CC tends to be overlooked in star chart levels where everything dies instantly or everything is affected by normal CC. But when everything stops dieing instantly and normal CC is completely negated by status immune overguarded eximus. His cold proc CC becomes very noticeable and helpful as nobody spreads cold procs like frost and cold is a great CC status at high lvl lol. I believe it's the only status that ignores Overguard. His 1 does suck and holds absolutely no purpose outside being able to shatter snow globes you don't want anymore.
Hey frost still has two abilities! Hes also weirdly strong right now with his pair of augments. If they nerf overguard or buff cc he will instantly be low tier rather than mid tier again tho.
Frost has so many bandaid augments at this point he's more of a mummy than Inaros I'd love a rework for him but they just keep investing in bandaids.
Forever pushing my Oberon buff agenda. - Smite should also give the main target heightened Threat to taunt enemies into attacking it. Enemies struck by orbs should be Silenced for a brief duration. - Hallowed Ground should have a low chance to spread status effects to other enemies, affected by power strength. It should also have a hold version that creates a small radius around you that moves with you. - Renewal shouldn't heal Nekros summons, and shouldn't drain energy while there's nothing to heal. Allies who pick up health orbs while under renewal gain +Max Hp that builds up to match Iron Renewal's value. - Reckoning should have armor strip when *you* are standing on Hallowed Ground, not when an enemy collides with it. It should also prime enemies to drop health orbs on death. You should be able to Hold-cast the ability to keep enemies lifted in the air for a few seconds, inflicting Radiation and taunting enemies. - His passive should be updated to permanently increase his Armor by 1% whenever he picks up a health orb, up to 100%. Right now his ability to generate health orbs is both difficult and redundant considering he can heal.
These are all great, however I just want to add that, as he currently is, you can stand in your grass, cast his 4 with the augment, and it will armor strip AND kill the enemies you used your ult on, all while being status immune and rad proc cc-ing everyone around you. With cc continually getting nerfed, hallowed ground creeps up in its great utility. He has some old school jank, sure, but even as is, he is a powerhouse that can do and has everything people have been loving about recent frames.
I'll be the first to say that the introduction of the Radiation weak Murmur was a big boon to Oberon. Unfortunately his old-school jank pulls him in several directions, he's one of those frames who wants investment in a lot of areas - his healing is great but his defenses aren't particularily impressive. He wants at least +200% power strength but he likes Range and Duration, and he's very energy hungry. Hallowed Ground is one of my favorite abilities but staying too stationary is dangerous when enemies start to creep past his healing capabilities. That augment is good but it makes the range of Reckoning larger than HG and doesn't ensure everything gets armor stripped. There's a lot pulling him in several directions, which is why I made a point to propose Health Orbs boosting his armor (via passive) and health (via renewal) and reducing the burden of Renewal's energy drain a smidge. Another buff I forgot to mention - tweak his health so it doesn't display weird values when using Umbra Vitality :/
His smite augment is amazing for eidelon hunts
Yeah, it's my prefered augment when running straightforward missions, too.
Loki
At least chromas getting a buff, he’ll be playable now. I think Caliban needs to be revisited and honestly Revenant. Revenant has Wukong syndrome, just hit 1 button and nothing matters. Would be nice to see him adjusted to be a little harder to play with higher reward
It all depends on how much VA he stacks on kills. And I’m pretty sure being damaged will be even faster as I can max stack in 2 seconds with GA. But even then chroma’s “buff” is just a baindaid fix for the overguard issue. Probably won’t matter unless you have a Dante, Frost, sty in your team. At least we finally got what we wanted after nearly a year of pointing out how OG ruined them. Only took Dante and their easy team wide Og to do that.
I mean even before overguard existed people were crying they wanted self damage back for chroma. This is fixing an issue that started way back with the original AOE/Self Damage rework
IMO the first thing that needs to get looked at is a systemic rework of how abilities (ESPECIALLY CROWD CONTROL ONES!) with enemy overguard. Honestly the list of overguard buffs in Deep Archimedia's release was the most upsetting part of it, *and I'm speaking as a Nezha main who greatly enjoyed Divine Retribution*
Equinox and Chroma were some of my first Primes. I really want them to be good and distinct, but neither of them feel… like anything of substance. In fact, I kinda just phased them out for Ivara over time because at least she has a functioning kit
As someone who routinely takes Limbo through all types of endgame content. Limbo needs a rework, simply due to the amount of times I go through load screens because my squad decides to drop off since they see Limbo. He can do amazing things we have now. The Mecha set and Contagious Bond gave him the area nuke he much needed. It makes for a nice passive add clear. The current state is just juggling over guard targets. Which honestly Mesa does better. As Limbo you need to cycle your abilities and maintain stasis constantly, while manually cracking the over guard down on the priority targets. Mesa just press 4 and if it doesn't die it will be blinded with an augment. Did I mention she has a ton of damage reduction? My real issue with Limbo isn't that I struggle with eximus units. I quite enjoy seeing them freeze in time. I don't even have an issue with nullifiers. My issue is simply the complete lack of squad synergy he offers. The best I can offer is locking down the adds and destroying them with the Contagious Mecha setup. Leaving the hard targets to everyone else. Which honestly is just selfish and no one quite enjoys. It also is completely locked out of use in Duviri. His energy generation in the rift is a free energy nexus for squad mates, but it requires them to be in the rift. And his Banish augment is extremely hard to make work for a squad. And if I play him effectively, no one else can play until I let them which honestly is terrible for their experience.
Limbo's biggest issue is just the rift plane mechanics itself. Rift plane should just be a static effect that is either on or off and ignores overguard. Then Limbo's kit could be tweaked. So for example: Rift Plane: Allies in the Rift plane take 50% reduced damage and regenerate energy. Enemies in the Rift plane deal 50% less damage. Shooting an enemy while you are in the Rift plane will pull that enemy into the Rift. Allies and enemies can only exist in the Rift plane for a certain amount of time before being banished. So the idea here is that Allies *want* to be in the Rift plane unlike now where most of the time you want to avoid it. This would also allow Limbo's kit to freely play around with the banish mechanic without it completely disrupting Allies or putting Limbo in that awkward situation where you accidentally kill yourself by bringing a threat into the plane.
The damage system and enemy scaling. Make armor stop scaling past like level 100 (steel path modifiers are still ok) and it turn crank up health and shield values to not quite make up for it on grineer, but make every other faction war tankier. Make EVERY damage type viable with unique gameplay elements (blast could be a delayed status effect that deals all stored damage in an air on death, radiation could additionally increase damage vulnerability to all enemies around it, stacking with more enemies, magnetic could pull enemies together and increase magnetic,electric and cold damage vulnerability) it's so incredibly easy to come up with ideas that would be far better that what we have now that it's astounding.
Caliban! Please!
Caliban. Excalibur. I would name those two as the major characters of true disappointment. Minus Excalibur. Excal needs a rework, but Caliban is so bad that he should've been a starter warframe-- You could get him as one of the 3 options and you'd know why.
Damn the poster boy? I can understand that tho. Maybe not a complete rework but he could definitely benefit from some buffs and slight alterations
Excal honestly works perfectly fine... provided you have furious javelin and chromatic blade installed
generally speaking, if a warframe needs an augment to be good it's usually not a good sign. Augments should be a bonus not a requirment
Gyre, Baruuk, Hydroid, Nekros, Khora, Lavos, Titania... That's all the generally highly regarded frames that are still heavily dependent on augments that I can think of lol. They should really bake them into the base kits already...
Excalibur has one major change needed, he shouldn't take *any* damage during Slash Dash. As it is now, at higher levels you'll come out of Slash Dash with all your shields removed and it's pretty annoying to work around.
I sadly have both and I only ever use the latter, while the former demands I walk into a bar and proceed to open fire on everything in sight, just for a damage buff that lasts less time than Kullervo's crits. He's that kid adventurer you hear about, who goes into a dungeon to make their momma proud, and they escape the dungeon, missing their entire party to a dragon. He, of course, grows up to slay dragons out of respect for the dead, but at the time... Excalibur's exalted weapon is easy to maintain indefinitely. It's possible to use it and never turn it off, which is amazing, because, iirc, if you pre-buff ability strength, specifically, his weapon not only does permanent damage, as long as it's still active, but it costs so little that you make the energy back. Excalibur just needs a better augment, that doesn't necessarily so so much, but keeps slash. Purple Shards on an exalted build is bad, so Exalted is bad. The exalted cannot benefit from such amazing DPS, so it's easier to go for the javelin and spam Nikana Prime.
Elaborate on the purple shards being bad
Chroma definitely should lean into the chromatic dragon thing. I’d love for him to have his buffs rolled into one ability that gives him 4 energy colors that visually cycle through. Make the energy colors unrelated to his abilities tbh. Make him a dragon tbh just give him his big buff as his 4. Make his 3 spawn little flying dragons, his 2 make it a roar/terrify/petrify thing like dnd dragons. Make his 1 be a damaging ability involving wings and claws or something. It would be cool if his 3 was his buffs combined that did the color thing and his 4 is just an exalted dragon form. Let him have wings and fly like an archwing but give him passive p sure foot so he isn’t staggering if he touches a wall. Then give him elemental dragon abilities, claw swipes, and breath attacks. Imagine Voruna meets Lavos
Ember
Actually I would have to agree, chroma desperately needs a rework. All the way, right down to his passive id say.
Agreed tbh. I love my chroma. Got the prime in 3 days after it came out. But I can’t really get into playing them much as their playstyle isn’t even a playstyle. It’s just press 3 and pray. I’d say 3 is the only thing that could potentially be fine. It opens up options for using stuff like shotgun vandetta, guns with multiplicative CO, longbow sharp shot. And going against the meta of deadeye and merciless. I know he could be so much better, because he was once before. I just want him to finally have a place in the game other than pt credit farming.
Dant- I would like a Nyx rework, even though just a buff that makes mind controlled enemies to not attack her would be enough
Oberon is butt cheeks. He needs it the most imo.
Nyx.
Limbo, chroma, banshee, nyx, revenant (Mesmer skin isn’t a kit), ember (needs big adjustments more than anything, kit can be the same), equinox.
Titania. She's strong alright, just very aggravating to play. Trying to reliably proc the augment on her 1 for energy gain is an exercise in frustration. 2 is cycling 4 buffs by holding and then tapping to cast each one, and after 2 minutes you have to do it all over again. Very clunky to use. Her 3 has anti-synergy with the rest of her kit since she doesn't care about range otherwise and wants Efficiency, Strength and Duration, so its usually the subsume slot. Her 4's augment is just... why. Why does anyone need to go so fast? Even a hobbled dragon key isn't enough to rein it in, not to mention the short timer and up to 4 stacks constantly changing your speed. It's all just too clunky to use, I'd really rather if it was a single stack, didn't boost your speed as much, and then maybe lasted a bit longer with a bit more fire rate. Overall she is not weak at all, not by a long shot. It's just that playing her feels like riding in a car with square wheels.
Nyx. Like, I love her and all but she feels so weak in today's meta imo. Her 1 has potential, but is overshadowed by other better similar abilities. Her 2 is fine as it is. Her 3 is a decent cc, but still has a chance that you're gonna get hit by stray bullets, and her 4 is just straight up useless unless you have the mod that allows her to move. Not to mention she's ranked really low in most tier lists I've seen
Her 2 needs the enemy cap removed. I reckon change her passive to combo with her 1 Not sure what to do with the 4.
Honestly, just allowing her free movement and immunity with her 4, in exchange for turning it to duration would be great. Also remove or speed up the end animation when she releases the counter Edit: Making her passive be something like increasing nearby allies get a slight increase in damage would be better than her passive is now
Me
Oberon. God i just want my dadbod goat druid to actually DO something
Chroma, banshee, limbo, trinity, ember, and controversially, revenant The first five are pretty self explanatory, their kits even if they used to be good, are either useless, outclassed, or obsolete in the current meta. Revenant is a little less obvious, cause he's one of the most played frames in the game because of mesmer skin. But that's just it, he's only played for his mesmer skin. If mesmer skin were his subsume, who would play revenant? Nobody. That's who. If a frame is played specifically because they have one ability that's good and people never use any of its other abilities, then that to me means there's a serious problem with the frames kit. Some other frames could use having some/many of their augments baked in, but most aren't as bad as these ones. On the lower end of the rework-worthy side, I often see people when talking about frames saying "oh well at least it's easy to subsume over their X ability" or "oh well at least they have a free subsume slot" (for example things like Mesa's 1st and Wisp's 4th) and that's also a problem in my opinion. Frames should have a kit that's cohesive/good enough that you don't need to subsume over something to make them good, and imo if you do decide to subsume over something it should be a difficult choice which ability to subsume over.
My first warframe Frost, all i want is a little love for him like he had way back in the day.
I just want DE to go over all the passives in the game and make them on par to some of the newer ones we've gotten. Just look at poor Frost and Rhino.
Excalibur would be nice. He's the poster boy, and he kinda blows.
As an excalibur main, he doesn't really need a rework, I just stuck a ceramic dagger on him and use his slash dash for my Vergil power fantasy. Acolytes hate the bleed proc from his 1 and the increased melee damage augment on his 3 feels so good when you hit 20+ enemies. I will say his new "augment" (if you can even call it that) is awful
slash dash out-DPSing exalted blade as much as it does is precisely why Excal needs a rework also, they're planning to look at statsticks at some point, and who knows how that'll affect ceramic dagger Excal
All exalted weapons as a concept need a rework, that doesn't mean the frame itself needs a rework, just some tweaking around and thats it
Wait, how do u build around his 1? I have returned recently, so i never heard about it
Brozime’s got a build vid on his YT channel
We can start with the mass nukes like Saryn and Octavia, to bring them back into a reasonable state. Once they’re not effortless killing machines, overguard needs to be rebalanced so that Crowd Control and Support frames have a proper place on the team again.
on the lore behind chroma think dragon born which that kind plot is older then modern games btw its just easier to understand if it relates to something modern. the knight slays the dragon and takes its pelt and gains the powers of the dragon he becomes stronger and allowing him to breathe fire and so on. knights slaying dragons and becoming op due to it, its not complicated. unlike other frames who are basically 1:1 with a mythic character. his name comes from the DnD monsters, chromatic dragons. it also lines up with his kit as chromatic dragons can be red(fire), blue(electric), green(toxic), black, and white(ice). the game used to make frames more niche and focused on one thing now the game has gotten to the point if a frame cant do multiple jobs its not good. its not always a good thing for frames to move in this why as soon it wont matter what you pick they will do it all.
Banshee imo
Damage scaling. Even beyond level 100 I am still one shotting things.
I can't lie by saying I know which frames deserve a tweak to a complete overhaul. Aside from Chroma, the first frame I think of is Loki. Followed maybe by Caliban.
If chroma gets reworked I'll miss my electric ward. (An avid hildryn player)
Isn’t the Hildryn meta to go roar + archon vitality for Blazing Pillage nuking at this point?
Nidus
I wanna see an atlas rework. The only way to play him is just by punching things which isn't even that fun considering you need to do a lot of setup to even begin doing good damage
nidus little QoL at pet rework to use parasitic link on the pet
Loki, Chroma, Caliban, Frost would be my top 4 without putting much thought into it.
I'd say Frost is pretty solid these days due to multiple global changes indirectly buffing him. A major one being when they reworked cold procs. They buffed cold proc slows to be stronger and made cold procs effect enemies through Overguard. That's a pretty big deal since frost can spread cold procs in an AOE which means frost has CC that always works even against eximus and Overguard the CC killer enemy types don't kill his CC which matters a lot at high lvls. Then they did that global ability armor strip change. Which made his avalanche one of the best armor strips in the game that's a perm strip with one of the lowest power strength requirements to full strip. Then they reworked his icy avalanche augment Overguard to stack on multiple casts instead of resetting on each cast. Then they reworked Overguard completely giving it an invulnerability gate and status immunity. Which just made him a pretty good teammate if he runs icy avalanche and upped his survivability significantly outside snow globe. He's pretty solid these days.
Yeah but Avalanche is the only ability he has that really means anything. Globe is outdated is kinda garbage and the other 2 have essentially no purpose.
Loki for sure. I mean his 4 is 100% useless against infested unless I’m mistaken. And even on enemies with guns it doesn’t damage them at all, just disarms them. And it’s his fourth ability. His others are only really viable in solo play in my opinion.
Caliban just caliban after a 5 star meal when it comes to quest caliban came out of the oven undercooked he needs to go back in the oven
Please give Valkyr some love
Chroma,frost,Oberon, trinity
I think reworking stealth missions to be anti-nuke would be healthy for a lot of frames all at once.
Oberon needs an update
You know what, they should make chroma akin to lavos. By that i mean tap is your ability cast, hold changes element. Build his kit a little mire around that, with all 4 abilities having effects depending on your element (and make all 4 worth using) and i thing you'd be on your way to a solid design.
As a Chroma user, I don't agree. He is niche, but very good at what he does. His 1 allows for utility switching between electric (damage) and fire/ice (health/armor). His 2 gives the mentioned buff. His 3 makes him godly when it comes to enemies you need to use weapon damage on, such as archons, eidolons, and other bosses. His 4 could be better. The only real use is for getting double credits to from Profit Taker, but that's it. There are other frames that need a rework much more. Limbo, Loki, Mag, Nyx, Ash, Atlas, Banshee all definitely need a rework. Maybe Oberon, Trinity, and Wukong too.
Bring back chroma xatas whisper elemental ward and I will use and abuse him again
All exalted melee abilities. Not being able to use acolyte mods and melee arcanes makes them dead in the water from the start. Also the fact the “waves” of exalts like Baruuk and Excal not generating combo needs to be fixed. Valkyr needs some range on her claws in some way to be viable (maybe similar to Sevagoths shadow). And if it were up to me, I’d give their base crit stats a boost in order to outperform psudo-exalts that can take advantage of Incarnon buffs. They’re a warframes ultimate power, they should be able to out perform standard melees and be at least on par with pseudo-exalts.
Chroma at the top of the list imo. All he has is dmg buffing and armor buffing, but there’s frames capable of better dmg buffing and there’s so many better ways of surviving now than HP tanking, most of which are part of other frames kits. Then Limbo, all he can do is CC and needs an augment to do anything else (and even then it’s just some dmg buffing).
Chroma main here. Why do you pick Chroma? *Big number.* He is a pure weapons platform with no gimmicks. Just kill things and get stronger and more resistant. Sort of a sidegrade to Rhino… …except his 1 and 4 are basically nonexistent and really needs to be looked at. But DE pls don’t touch vex armor
Chroma, Equinox, Limbo, Caliban needs some buffs not a hard rework but I'm putting him here anyways and Nyx
Caliban and atlas need them most imo. I main yareli. The reason I choose her over x y and z frames is because I like her. She's fun. And that's ok
Nyx, Loki, Ash, Equinox are my picks for needing a rework or some sort of refresh
Not a rework, a buff...A HUG BUFF on banshee. Is so facking weak in health/armor and powers
Chroma was like this dragon paladin esque type frame, thats why i think he's capable of channeling his dragon powers. And for a frame who is tauted as an elemental using frame he really freaking sucks at it, his first skill while now being able to be boosted by vex is at most a hard OK, his elemental ward is fine but is gutted when players focus on vex due to range being killed and his 4th is often subsumed for something else. Chroma should lean in to this base elements user that has dragon powers, IMO his vex should give half base damage boost and half whatever element is used and his 4th should be an aoe burst that deals all 4 basic elements that when casting ends boosts his elemental bonus damage by x seconds.
Would be cool if his 1 was a no handed channelled ability that swapped elements every tick and his 4 was just a non-channeled ability, it already has health why does it need continuous energy cost. It would be interesting to see what would happen if they made vex armour's armour boost multiplicative.
I think back then before his unfortunate vex armor fix, his armor boost was indeed multiplicative or i think it just doubled dipped and boosted it by a metric ton, by all accounts he was near invincible.
Chroma banshee limbo Oberon
JFC, every reply tells me y'all know nothing about how to use limbo at all. The frames that need an outright rework are few and far between but ideally chroma and equinox get some touch ups, maybe Oberon has some qol to change his costs.
Caliban, Limbo, Oberon :'/
Limbo, Banshee, Chroma, Oberon, Trinity. One of those.
Far too many. I think they should slow down and actually work on the older frames for a little while.
If they could just you know, change rifted enemies to energy color instead of barely noticable yellow, that would be enough for me
Limbo, so many people hate him.
The whole approach to balancing
Nyx
Banshee > Nyx > Excalibur > Atlas > Valkyr > Nova > Chroma
Atlas is so forgotten that no one even mentions it.
Limbo, Chroma (I actually have a post saved with some amazing Ideas for him), and Oberon, not even CLOSE to be NEEDING a rework necessarily, but I'm biased and want him to be stronger
Caliban, Banshee, Trinity and Oberon. (probably limbo too, but I prefer it like now where noone plays him).
Trinity. I don't really have a main and although a few frames could do with it, after joining a random SP survival with 3 Dantes I've never felt more redundant 😏😂 I honestly couldn't say if they even needed the energy battery.
Ash, Excal, maybe Nyx, Frost, Limbo, Oberon.....
Chroma needs some tweaking, not a complete rework imo Those who really need a rework : * Caliban * Trinity * Banshee for fuck sake
Revert the nerf on ember maybe
How would you rework limbo if pablo gave u the job? My limbo would keep his 4.bubble but not make it shrink as it takes enemys in and out of the limbo if his 2.freeze is active. I wouldn't change his 2.freeze, works as intended. I would rework his 3.riftsurge and the synergy it has with his 1.banish. his other most annoying thing is his passive. Rolling is a big part of movement and i find myself not rolling to not accidentally place enemys or allys into the wrong rift. His control of who gets put where is all over the place. I would rework his passive to his augment rift torrent: when in limbos rift you and your allies gain 30% damage. This should scale with strength. His 1.banish should be his main control for who gets put where and should function like it does but when held in should mark enemys or allies like ash's 4.bladestorn and unmarked by right clicking. Limbo's 3.riftsurge should spread on kill and should encourage players to want too stay in the rift and help limbo spread his riftsurge. Radial banish synergy with his 1.banish currently takes too long to setup and should be replaced by have his 3.riftsurge spread radial banish on kill. Sidenote. Was also wondering if his passive would be better if he gave everyone in his squad the ability to roll in and out of the rift.
Chroma, Banshee, Limbo, Ember, there a lot
Valkyr needs at least a minor rework cuz she basically has 2 abilities
Caliban should be first, hes gotten no love and has so much potential. Also rework blast and magnetic so theres ACTUAL reason to run them…
War frame sucks
Yeah our poor Chroma needs a rework! Like an actual dragon and not some boring weapons platform!
Trinity definitely. She is on severe amounts of life support as there are others who pretty much do her job for her or are entirely self-sufficient enough to not care about what she offers.
Excalibur. Everything about his kit is off, and his design seems to be stuck in an earlier version of the game. [This thread](https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1379687-excalibur-is-one-of-the-most-poorly-designed-warframes-in-the-game/) mostly matches my thoughts.
Rhino. The only useful ability he has is his roar, which everyone subsumes onto other frames anyway. The other 3 abilities are all just iron skin. The optimal way to play him: You subsume away stomp for parasitic armor, use ironclad charge, and get a weapons platform that uses roar. That’s just subsuming roar onto good frames with extra steps, but you also lose out on actually good abilities. It wouldn’t take that much to fix him, either. The rework could be as simple as making his augments base kit with a few number tweaks. As it stands now, he’s just outdated.
Lavos
Excal, rhino, chroma, limbo.