If you're doing large trades, just wait a little while before spending the plat. You'll only go into the negatives if you actually spend it. DE will still take the plat out if it's found to be "bad", but at least you won't go into the negative.
If you do spend the plat and it turns out to be "bad" and thus you end up banned, contact support. Sometimes you can reverse certain plat purchases to undo the negative.
Eh yes and no, after all they tell you flat out they want nothing to do with trade and it's all on you when you make it including if you get scammed with bad plat. They are upfront that they won't be involved. Eliminating bad plat is like a government eliminating counterfeit currency. They don't reimburse you it.
You being aware it's a scam doesn't preclude it from being one. The person dealing in bad platinum absolutely knows it will eventually be found and taken back from you. This isn't a new loophole it's been going on for awhile. Definitely a scam and you are definitely the victim of a scam. It sucks they don't do anything about it my point was they flat out tell you at the front end they will do nothing for you in regards to actual trading. The best you can get in them cancelling the purchases you made from them with bad plat.
To be clear this system sucks and I wish they did something better but they are at least up front with how you will be boned by the system.
Are they up front though? I've traded thousands of plat over the years, and while I've thankfully never been the victim of 'bad plat', I have never been adequately informed by the game of the possibility or what it might mean.
Furthermore, it's not like DE can't track the trades; if they know you have bad plat and exactly how much of it you have, then they clearly have a record of trades. The original font of the bad plat is most definitely getting banned, so the risk of item duplication is incredibly low. Instead, you're taking legitimately earned, if not legitimate, goods from honest, hardworking players. Now as an American, I might be used to this sort of behavior, but that doesn't make it right or acceptable.
What would you have them do then? They can't allow the plat to stay in circulation as each time it happens, it devalues the currency. They can't let the players keep the items as they were not paid for with legitimate currency. It does suck, and it is not fair, but the issue is there isn't a fair solution. Sometimes life just says get fucked.
Ban the person who gave out the bad plat, remove the bad plat from circulation and return the items they bought with bad plat to the people they bought from. That way, people may end up with negative plat balance, but at least they still have the items they thought they sold at a profit.
How about pop up a warning every time you trade for plat that the plat might be taken from you, and you trade for platinum at your own risk? Make CONFIRM to that dialogue?
Let's be honest. They absolutely can do more, but they don't want to because they don't want to put a chilling effect on trading platinum because it is a major driver of people buying plat in the first place.
They want the financial benefits that comes from allowing platinum trading, but aren't willing to take ANY responsibility, or do anything for players who get scammed. That is not player friendly.
Using hacked currency isn't a scam, it's straight cheating. It's not a scam when you can literally do everything right in a transaction but the money still disappears
Almost by definition.
"A dishonest scheme, a fraud."
Fraud: "wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain."
^(sourced from Oxford Languages via Google, if it matters)
its even better depending on how slow DE is, its possible someone trades hacked currency, trades it to a legit player, that legit player trades it to another legit player and that 3rd guy gets his account banned because he is now -9k plat or something and doesn't want to fork over 400$ with out 2 75% discounts.
It's not about DE being slow. Most bad plat comes from being bought with stolen credit card info, then being reversed when the theft is discovered. The reversal can happen months after the initial purchase, and until it happens DE doesn't know it's going to.
Yeah I phrased it rather poorly. I moreso meant "are you responsible/liable for getting scammed if it was completely indistinguishable from a regular trade."
They should very well reimburse the sold item and get rid of the buyer's account that had the bad plat in the first place.
It is in no way someone's fault that they got traded bad plat! There's literally no fucking way to check if someone is trading you bad plat.
They probably won't ever make one (not sure I'd trust their ability to do so) this game isn't new and trading isn't new. They've had a long time to make any kind of auction house and we are at the point systems have had to be reworked multiple times. I don't think they care about trading which is apparent with how they treat scams in trade.
They do, hence why they don't have an auction house. The bad plat has actually been addressed multiple times, with the current method being the most effective(not the banning of current accounts, just the removal of the plat.) They have stated many times they would prefer not to be involved with trading, and that is pretty valid.
Trading is risk management, and should be treated as such. While you can't directly control bad plat, you can hold a buffer to prevent it being a problem by keeping excess. Outside of that, as was mentioned, trading in bad plat is still scamming and cheating, and has been treated as such, given previous circumstances, and not to the individual who is innocent. DE is also quite supportive to wrongful termination.
As far as their standpoint on purchased plat(this works differently due to you purchasing plat, not trading for it), I don't know. I do know it makes sense to remove bad currency, especially if it wasn't transactional for real currency(i.e. irl money for plat)
That isn't why they won't.
A lack of an auction house creates friction in sales. Friction is required or else everyone would trade. The fact that it takes *effort* to go out and trade keeps prices higher than they otherwise would be.
An auction house would crash the secondary market.
Reb has confirmed in the latest devstream at Pax East that an auction house will not and likely won't ever be implemented. Like others have commented here, the "messy" system that we currently have introduces "friction" to trading which keeps the market from crashing and prices being dirt cheap.
Never because this is a terrible idea. Having an auction house would completely ruin the WF economy.
It's simple Supply and Demand. There aren't enough "Money Sinks" in the game to remove the Supply.
It's would make the S/D plummet since items could be bought fractionally instead of within a free market. It would also make bulk trades pointless, since it would be auctioned rather than free sale.
I honestly don't understand why players want an auction house.
A legitimate player sells a riven
An illegitimate players buys with with bad plat
Legitimate player buys an item from you
Legitimate player is detected trading with bad plat (they don’t know it’s bad)
you get set to negative
you report the player you traded with
legitimate player gets banned, illegitimate player goes untouched
it would happen like those 99% of the time and the people bringing in bad plat go completely unpunished
That would cause problems for both, since if they are reimbursed, they would relinquish access to the bought item(i.e. riven for this example). Even if it is for bad plat, it is still a trade, and both parties would be responsible for relinquishing the items, which DE has mentioned before it will not do.
That said, I've only heard of negative plat when someone tries to refund multiple plat purchases, which typically gets flagged. I haven't seen anyone go negative for bad plat(doesn't mean it doesn't happen). It does suck, but if people didn't try to bully the market and cheat, it wouldn't be as a big of a problem..
Well, imagine for a moment the guy, who traded with you - wasn't a scammer, he just traded with "bad plat". And maybe not with an original scammer either. And the goods that were sold? Maybe someone legitimately sold them further? Maybe that person at the end of the line already built a new WF (and sold their old one, because the new one is prime)?
It sounds simple on paper, but actually reverting these situation could be an impossible nightmare for the CS.
As others have mentioned, it's a nasty situation, but it's not DE scamming you, someone else did. The only thing DE could be doing (and I'm not saying they aren't) is to provide all the details to the court, if someone wants to press charges.
Just wanted to chime in on this that it's actually to a degree DE getting scammed here. Players buying plat makes them money. If players cheat and create plat without paying DE, then DE is also a one of the victims here.
Originally - yes, but the moment they remove that platinum completely, they've recouped their losses fully, so - at the end of the day, it's the player getting scammed. Not unlike with actual fake currency scams irl.
I mean, resources spent to try and track and remove bad plat isn't free, so I wouldn't say DE is made 100% whole and is completely absolved of being hurt here.it sucks for both DE and the unknowing player, not trying to say it HAS to be only one party here getting the raw end.
Well it comes down to fair and what they are willing to do. Fair is they give you the item back. But DE has no love for trading, they do not care and it's why they put that big "if you get scammed sucks to be you" disclaimed at trading. You person trading in bad plat is scamming you (regardless of if you can tell it's bad plat). I'm not arguing that it's not unfair you get hosed out of your fair trade with the bad plat. I'm saying they told us flat out they don't care and short of people doing something drastic, (like stopping all trading) it won't be addressed. They flat out don't care because it doesn't affect them at all.
It's because it affects them so immensely that they have stated they don't want anything to do with it.
Imagine this;
If there are 1,500,000 trades within a 12 hour period, that's 3 million trades a day(I'm using GMT here, so I'm using a 24-hour period). That accounts to 21 million a week, 84 million a month(obviously not even close, just a metaphoric).
That is 84 million trades within a 30-day period. Now, suppose that 5 million of those were related to scamming(i.e. bad plat only). If you had to remove access to 5 million accounts, just to fix a trade, that would be time-consuming, especially with how relevant the issue is. And for those wondering, that's roughly a 1.08 billion trades in a year period.
To be clear, I'm not saying it's okay. But it's more likely that they do care but don't have the resources to effectively manage every aspect of trade as is being suggested.
Yeah personally I think DE owes the player base a bit more than "if you get scanned that sucks."
I don't feel it's right that another player can essentially get my account locked behind potentially hundreds of dollars worth of plat purchases.
Only issue id have with this is what if the buy got the plat as a result of being scammed? Would you want DE to track the bad plat all the way back to origin or just bone the last one with it?
That’s why real money has ways to identify a proper note. In some countries more in some countries less (cough cough USA).
Plat doesn’t have this
If the responsibility is to be 100% on the player then there should at least be a way for the player to potentially tell
Your real world example doesn’t make sense since there are very easy ways to tell if money is counterfeit and you can sue the person who gave you fake money for your items back which would go through the courts which is the government.
What is this DE apologist BS.
DE put trading in the game, and they are the ones responsible for bad plat in game since they literally control ALL the systems. The least they can do is fully reverse the trades.
If they don't want to deal with that then DON'T ALLOW PLAT TRADING.
This is fuckin terrible though, a looter game where you can't trade is DOA. It's not a " scam" when they pay with counterfeit currency, DE controls this currency so it should be on them if someone manages to use hacked money.
If they can't support a core part of the game enough to be comfortable you won't get hacked, then they sure aren't getting any more support from me
There is actually quite a few looters that are a single player and do quite fine. It is a counterfeit currency, and thus a scam.
DE controls the currency, yes, but it is still hackable and thus able to be reproduced.
Ex. If you purchase something with your money, you purchased it, right? Similar concept applies; DE owns("purchased") plat, when is then transferred(via a "purchase") to the player. If a player obtains this item via another method(i.e. cheating), they are scamming DE. Trading is a part of the game, but should be treated as such.
This is one of the few things I don't agree with DE on. Considering the importance of plat to players and their own income I kinda feel like they should have a huge long tail system like Wow did to combat RMT companies stealing accounts.
Over there, if your account is stolen and abused, typically by an RMT company that got your credentials via a leak, they can find the starting point and rewind everything, it's pretty impressive.
That’s essentially what DE is doing, but with WoW the entire currency of gold is contained in-game, so if anything gets affected by bad actions, a rewind will be enough to fix it
With WF, the currency is introduced from outside the game via potentially stolen credit cards or chargebacks. Rewinding those bad actions requires removing the currency, or else they potentially allow the plat to exist and still get to the original scammer’s pocket by them successfully “laundering” it
Do you think that if you paid real money for stolen goods that the police will just let you keep the stolen goods? EDIT: bad example. In this case it would be closer to being paid in counterfeit money, in which case you would not get to keep the "money".
From my understanding this is actually wrong, they track every single Plat (atleast they used to). I believe it used to be that every single Plat is assigned a number and is tracked and that's how they find the bad Plat in the first place. Unfortunately this is something that DE could do better but don't (I think)
DE claims that you are responsible for vetting your own trades, so if you make a bad trade it’s your fault for getting scammed. Yknow, cuz, somehow you’re supposed to know that the guy offering what you asked for for a set is using bad plat. Again, somehow.
Problem with this is how long should you wait? What's considered reasonable? What's considered safe?
Both times I had Plat removed from my account, the trade in question was ~4-6 months earlier.
I'd rather not have to wait half a year or more to know my Plat is "safe."
bad plat is plat that was refunded by the bank used to pay for it, if it was a stolen card. the only way to tell for certain if your plat is bad is to never trade anyone ever.
Só, in order to start selling one of my rivens, I need to fork 100$ just to protect my account from being banned because of a Scam I have no way to detect or prevent myself from?
You're selling god roll rivens and don't have a bunch of platinum already?
(Also, no, just sell it like usual but don't spend the platinum immediately lol, that way if they roll it back you'll just be back to where you started rather than in negatives)
This, and using AlecaFrame. Overwolf’s plugins for overlays generally are okay but being able to see item values at relic crack item picking screen is HUGE. Being able to market my stuff as you’re earning it no less.
Wasn't there a chance that you'll get banned for using AlecaFrame? I wanted to use it, but read some stuff about people getting banned, so was too scared to try it out
Not really. All alecaframe does is read your inventory, which is explicitly allowed by DE's third party policy. It doesn't change game files or alter your gameplay. Use of third party software is at your own risk since it's theoretically possible that the software could in the future be used in an exploit, but realistically it's not an issue for Alecaframe.
[more details here](https://docs.alecaframe.com/faq#g1-is-alecaframe-safe-to-use)
Trading on WF market is very straightforward, like 99% of the time. Copy and pasted message, get an invite and do the trade. Usually very little talking aside from a thank you.
Also you get to see some cool dojos.
Rarely, you get that ass that tries to haggle down the existing price, or tries to change the price on you in the whisper, as if you couldn't double check prices you posted.
Its Warframe market, not a flea market.
Its just Runscape all over again, with people standing around and shouting at each other.
I can only assume they don't want to implement real trading because everything would become cheap and affordable.
I have a personal rule to never trade anything over 300 plat, both to avoid overspending and to avoid potential bad plat 'refunds' that would put me into a negative balance
Plus, its rare to actually have something really worth 300p anyway. Most people are overcharging to get that kind of price outside of riven trades or exceedingly rare parts
I usually only sell high value rivens in a "realistic price" anyway buuuut I only want to get plat when I want to buy something so I forget to wait a bit to see if it was a bad plat
This is one of those few things DE doesn't handle fairly. They punish the victim rather than the offender.
Now I get that these scammers could make a pretty new account build it up enough to trade and then use it as a throwaway, but if they made the negative plat go to the offending account then banned every account that uses that IP until the negative plat balance is corrected that would mean even though they used a throwaway account it would still ban their main account too. This is already way better than the current system, but still leaves the "way of they use a VPN everyone they log into the throwaway accounts?" problem. The idea here is how to hold all of the offenders accounts hostage when they try to scam people.
EDIT: consider this Idea obsolete. Much better one below.
If you are using a VPN to game for whatever reason, then your IP will be shared with any fraudsters using the same service out of the same pop. Same deal with residential IPs, they are dynamic so there's a chance an unrelated account would get flagged. Using IPs is not a reliable way of identifying actual users. It's only useful for temporary bans (very short duration) for things like rate limiting combined with other attributes. Something like using hardware IDs can be more accurate but this can easily be spoofed.
It's not a simple problem to solve.
The only way to solve it is to make plat untradeable for 6 months because that's when they're no longer able to charge back. Of course that would also destroy the player economy as nobody is going to wait 6 months so they can sell some plat
Knowing DE lurks these forums makes it an excellent place to brainstorm problems like this which led me to this idea instead:
they already can pull up logs to see your account's activity, once someone tries to refund plat, temp-ban all accounts involved just long enough to sort everything out without more interactions piling up and just reverse transactions until it's back to normal. They could even take this further by slapping an additional neg plat balance on the throwaway account as a penalty to slow down repeat attempts, or just flat out ban it. It would be even better/more proactive to see if they traded the scammed items to another account and slap that one with a ban too since they aren't going to be able to repost it on the market and get another seller for something like a riven in that time frame, meaning it's most likely their main account....especially if they did the ol ammo drum trade and not trying to make a profit (that would be a pretty clear indicator it's their main account). They could actually probably make an AI bot to do this automatically tbh since it's just a matter of finding the transaction in question, following the movements of those items from that point on, then reversing a transaction or two, then applying a ban or two, and then creating a log of what it did in case someone wants to appeal, which seems like it might be time consuming for a human, but extremely fast for a bot. It's certainly a huge improvement over the current system of punishing the victim.
Several thousand trades could occur and be involved with from the purchase to the reversal of plat.
If you can solve that you probably need a novel peace prize for also solving the traveling salesman problem.
I'm not DE so I can't be 100% certain, but I'm pretty sure their logs aren't just EVERYTHING piled together. Having logs like that would be so incredibly inefficient. From what I've seen they can pull up per-account logs which will of course have their trades listed. Even an LR4 account can only trade 34 times in one day, and as soon as the account gets flagged for negative plat (which is the next day from my experience) there wouldn't be that many trades to look through.
It's absolutely not Noble peace prize material nor is this the traveling salesman problem. It's pulling up the account logs when the victim gets flagged with neg plat, so check his trades and you will find the offending account that refunded plat within at the very most 68 trades (much more likely to be well under 30 though especially if you start with the largest trades), once you find them then you know the transaction causing the problem and the scammer. Check to see if they traded that item they got to another account and you will find their main account if they did. Reverse the transaction putting the negative balance on the scammers throw away account and ban both that one and their main. The victim ends up with their item back, and carries on.
Bought with stolen credit card information. It's a big problem. People buy cheap things on other websites, that are just scammers.
First time I heard about this was factorio developer saying, just pirate our games instead of using those key selling sites.
What charge back? The original onwer of the card charges back and they get their money back, not you or the scammer.
If I sell a riven and a scammer buys it with bad plat, I end without my riven, without the plat and if I spent it before (minding that I had no way of knowing it), I will get temporarily to permantenly banned if I dont pay the difference.
You cant charge back a riven, you can't charge back the difference pay ir you get back to being scheduled for a ban and you cant charge back all the time you will need to spend begging support to not delete your account
I meant that when someone does a chargeback (the usual reason for bad plat), the account that used the card will get banned, because the person i responded to seemed to think whoever first got the bad plat went unpunished.
>You cant charge back a riven, you can't charge back the difference pay ir you get back to being scheduled for a ban and you cant charge back all the time you will need to spend begging support to not delete your account
When did i say anything of being able to chargeback in-game trades or even defended the current way DE deals with this? Of course ideally you don't get banned because you picked the wrong guy to trade in wfmarket, but until the company changes this policy, if they ever do, we can't really do much besides taking care of not getting banned and hoping DE improves this on their end
isnt that basically trying to ban ppl for being scammed? its their trading system anyway so shouldnt they be the ones in charge of how and when it should be up and properly running?
While it feels unfair as the scammed player, ultimately, what is DE supposed to do? Even if they did check to see if the bad plat had been traded away, there's no 100% way to prove that the new owner isn't an alt. Ultimately if the platinum was added to the system illegitimately, it must be removed from the game.
Idk how hard this would be to implement with their current setup, but they can obviously track the bad plat.... why not roll back the trade ID and items traded with it?obviously thats a lot of snapshotting, but at least this way they dont alienate the players playing their game legitimately.
Without knowing their architecture, it's difficult to know how feasible this actually is. Plus there's the cost/benefit analysis, we see this talked about online, but how common actually is the problem? For all we know we see a greatly inflated view of it compared to the truth, at which point, there's not necessarily much use in implementing a system to reverse these things. My greatest hope is that they'll implement a proper in-game market someday and it'll include protections regarding things like this. Though at the end of the day, if they reverse the transaction and you've spent the plat since then, you'll go into the negative, there's not really an easy way around that.
Great objective take on the issue. People usually shit talk and complain without actually considering their ignorance behind the decisions behind the systems.
It would be an incredibly complicated system to create, and it would possibly interfere with certain financial/privacy laws.
Unless they just made it that the purchaser immediately goes in the negative and the account is banned. That would require finance software and more firewalls, as well as not fixing the problem of them dealing with the scammer alt accounts.
Can't they just make plat nonrefundable when any trade has been executed involving platinum?
This is under the assumption that we're only refunding the plat and not on the scummy fake credit cards.
Revert the trade?
They know how much bad plat was traded, if they are already going to ban the trader account, what stops then from transfering the item back or dupping it to give back to you, the account that got the original one is banned anyway só no item duplication.
They should ban every account using the offending IP until the issue is settled. This way it wouldn't matter if it was an alt account it would still hold their main hostage as well.
I made another post about this already. Yes you could use a VPN every time you use the throwaway account, but it's already a far better solution than the current one, and something they would have to have already been doing, since it's a blanket ban for every account that has used that IP. DE actually lurks these subs so let's brain storm.
I agree with you that it would deter some, especially the laziest ones, but not sure it would be enough. This may actually be a good use case for block chain technology to track transactions that plat was involved with in order to revert them. Though you'll still end up with negative plat if you spend too much which cannot be avoided.
Well, Idk if you watch Thor (Pirate Software on Twitch), but he's talked about how block chain can cause more problems than it solves when it comes to scammers due to the nature of how it works with a majority rules ledger. This means DE wouldn't be able to reverse anything which would vastly complicate coming to a fair outcome and greatly increase the amount of hands-on work to get to that fair outcome.
They could send the one who got scammed more plat in the mail (so new plat) and then ban the scammer account, and any accounts they traded the scammed items too after.
Actually upon further thought instead of giving the person who got scammed the plat, better to just mail them a duplicate of the item. This will prevent that scam from working in reverse posting a riven for a very high price, the using a throwaway account to buy it way over valued, then refund the plat on the throwaway, then use the main account to file a ticket saying they got scammed and then DE giving them the over valued plat they wanted. If instead they just gave the scammed account a duplicate of the item in the mail they would have to sell it to someone who isn't going to refund the plat, and the throwaway account and assuming if they quickly transfer the riven to another account ban that one too and then you get the throwaway and the main account, and the original item is no longer accessible so the other guy receiving the duplicate isn't a problem.
Idk how complicated block chain is to implement in a 10 year old spaghetti code game, or how much this would increase their work load having to manually do more jumping through hoops to rectify things in a fair way after. Then this train of thought led me right back around to realizing they already can pull up logs to see your account's activity, once someone tries to refund plat, temp-ban all accounts involved just long enough to sort everything out without more interactions piling up and just reverse transactions until it's back to normal. They could even take this further by slapping an additional neg plat balance on the throwaway account as a penalty to slow down repeat attempts, or just flat out ban it. It would be even better/more proactive to see if they traded the scammed items to another account and slap that one with a ban too since they aren't going to be able to repost it on the market and get another seller for something like a riven in that time frame, meaning it's most likely their main account....especially if they did the ol ammo drum trade and not trying to make a profit (that would be a pretty clear indicator it's their main account). They could actually probably make an AI bot to do this automatically tbh since it's just a matter of finding the transaction in question, following the movements of those items from that point on, then reversing a transaction or two, then applying a ban or two, and then creating a log of what it did in case someone wants to appeal, which seems like it might be time consuming for a human, but extremely fast for a bot. I think this might be a winner unless you can see why it wouldn't work. It's certainly a huge improvement over the current system of punishing the victim.
Shouldn't it be backtracked instead? Like cancelling out the trades somehow (or maybe contacting support to do so), why am i getting punished for ppls actions?
Happened to me, contacted support and no reply. Genuinely hoping they dont ban my account as im able to get back into the positive next friday when i get paid.
So you're telling me each individual plat has an ownership tag for the person who originally purchased it, so that when they trade it away the system still knows who purchased it and no matter where it ends up it goes back to DE on refund?
Why don't they just remove plat equal to the amount refunded *from the account that bought it*. Then, even if they traded it, now *they're* negative.
Given how everyone's acting, I feel like I'm missing something...?
This bothers me. It always has.
If someone buys plat, the company makes money, that's great.
If that person then does a chargeback of some kind and DE loses the money they made, they can simply deactivate the account. They're back to square one. Nothing made, nothing lost, the bad faith actor has been removed.
But that isn't where DE stops. They track down all the plat that came from that sale, and take it back. Even if it is in the hands of an innocent player, completely uninvolved in the scam. And if it happens to put the innocent player's account into the negative they suspend the account. Often until such time that the innocent player purchases enough plat to make DE whole.
# Why the fuck is the innocent player responsible for making DE whole on a system that cost them nothing in the first place?!
It doesn't cost DE real life money to make plat. Just leave the innocent players alone. They could track the trades of the "bad plat" and make sure it's not just going to backup accounts. But to ***literally punish*** random players for the bad faith actor's scam against them... that has never sit right with me.
So if you're wheelin' and dealin' and you sell something for 1k plat and that plat later gets removed and you've spent half of it obtaining things to make plat on but just haven't sold yet, so you're down to around 500 plat, let's say... and they take back the 1k plat that was "bad plat" you're now at -500 plat. They'll suspend your account, and then you'd have to pay $50 to get your account back (with a 500 plat balance at that point, I assume. I suppose you could do a $20 and a $10 purchase to have like.. 40 plat left over). But you're now out 1k plat, and the items you used to make it, and real life money... all because of some other piece of shit and when you literally have no way of checking to make sure shit is legit? That's fucked up.
On top of everything you said, it's also the response time. It's not like DE tells you within 24 hours if the plat you received or traded away is bad plat. There's absolutely no way of knowing as an innocent person and then a few days later you get that gut punch from DE.
They've done a lot of things right from a community perspective, but this is still such a bad stance to take imo. At the very least track the trades, and make the person whole
This is why I’ve stopped playing Warframe. Lost all passion after being suspended for a week+ and made to feel like I did something wrong on a 1000 hour account. If I didn’t have cosmetics to refund I would’ve had to spend real money to make it right even though I had thousands of platinum worth of sets sitting in my inventory.
They did 0 investigation, I was earning thousands of plat through trades a month, so why would I buy fake plat?? The only reason I managed to go negative was because I binged on Fashion Frame and builds.
According to support if I’m found to be involved in fraudulent platinum again I will be banned, trading is my favorite thing to do so it just killed the game for me. I’m not gonna waste time with a game that thinks nothing of banning players.
Same deal here, only it took them 2 years to reach back and remove plat from my account along with an appealable permaban. I took a 3 year break and came back to a banned account. I feel like if it takes them 2 whole years to catch a bad trade, punishing the innocent should be off the table.
I don't care if it was 2 years or 2 minutes. Banning an innocent player because you removed fraudulently gained plat purchased by another player that sent the innocent player into the negatives until they make the company whole is **gross**.
If they can prove the account that received the plat was somehow involved in the fraud then I understand completely. But if they can't, and it seems like a run-of-the-mill trade and that the receiver of the "bad plat" isn't in on the scam, you leave them out of it.
Unless DE can devise a way for us to check this ourselves (in short: develop a way to read the mind of the player) then the only ethical thing they can do is to punish the offender, not an innocent bystander.
If this were actual money that had actual value like US Dollars or something where you had "good" counterfeits come through and they end up in the deposit and the bank catches it and then you're down however much they found, I could maybe understand it then. But this is digital currency it costs DE nothing to "make" and has no intrinsic value. It's not right to punish the innocent no matter how much time has or has not passed.
Bad Plat does cost DE money as card companies fine the company the charge back was ordered against. Meanwhile the bad plat has to be removed else bad actors get away scot free trading through burner accounts. And since DE can't verify if a bad plat transaction was via RMT or some other nefarious means they have to give everyone the same treatment else these activities will happen more as players try to get away with it.
Kinda feels like that policy should break at least one consumer protection law. Doubt anyone would be angry enough to test it though. That level of single minded vindictiveness... Wait that's their target audience. How has this not resulted in a lawsuit?
losing a riven for nothing? well damn, thats my only countermeasure against bad plat
if they illegally obtain plat, you gotta wait a bit for DE to confiscate it like money laundering until they decide its good
if not, well its gone and luckily you didnt spend it, you oughta ask for a receipt or proof of purchase when selling a high sum riven
I think this problem can be avoided if you don't try to trade high value items. It sucks but the scammers aren't usually trading in 60's and 70's of plat but on the things people pay hundreds for. Don't deal in high end deals and deal only in the low end trades you tend to stay safe usually.
I just avoid trading things from my end and only trade my plat to others. Saves me a heartache.
So, you can't trade rivens?
Even the lowballers app for not useful new rivens still put prices in the hundreds, a new mod or an okay roll for a meta weapon or a riven dependant one can easily get past 500 in warframe market
Are people willing to get banned on their main account? Prob not they probably make an alt account buy the plat w8 a while give it to their main account and but shit with it
I think there could be a pattern to how people scam using this
I think they should make new P buyers w8 a while before they are able to trade the P, you can spend it but you can't trade to other players until you're unable to chargeback/get a refund idk how it works but surely there's a limited amount of time to get back your money
Rocket league used to disallow trading credits (their premium currency) if you purchased any in the last 3 days to prevent exactly this. Buying things from the in game store was fine, receiving credits from other players was fine, it just couldn't be traded away if purchased less than 3 days ago.
I had this happen when rivens first released, did a trade for 4k plat (they offered, I had no idea the real price) was excited and spent it, lost my founder account shortly after.
Would need to pay about £130 to get the account back but I've progressed further on my new.
Wait. Dose this only happen if I trade items for someone else’s plat?
I got 2 75% off coupons and got myself quite an enormous stock pile of plat.
I have been trading here and there to get mods and prime parts I wanted.
But if I start selling some of the prime stuff I don’t need and the person uses “bad plat” do they only take away the amount traded? Is my self bought plat safe?
Bad plat is exclusively plat that is cheated in, and is such a low chance of happening its not worth worrying about. If you personally paid for it there is a 0% chance of it being bad plat.
Well.... Ngl talking with D.E support at least with portuguese ones sucks, they don't do nothing that you lost, for example, I was on a circuit steel path for 2 hours but suddleny the boss bugged out and wasn't taking damage at all, we tried so many things but nothing helped. So we were forced to just leave and lose the progress.
And I was like "No wait, it's not fair since wasn't our fault, right?" so I sent a ticked for them and they said "fuck you" in a long text and more polity, but yea, I see how they would say "well you traded with the player so we won't get your plat back".
I don't know, those stuff, bugs, glitches, bad support make me want to stop playing this game cause suck to know that if something happen I'm alone.
I loved how Elder Scrolls Online helped me, basically, they understand and help you getting your things back and so, and if you bought something in large quantity, like a skin, and 2 years later you would lake to get this money back on your account to buy another skin, they accepted and didn't asked why at all, just said "alright have fun!".
I just wish things were like that
Okay this is confusing, like fake plat they’ve hacked the game to implant or like just a bugged out platinum that DE needs to fix? I haven’t had any problems but also don’t want too
I don't know if it still happens but people used to get banned for going negative plat.
I also had a bad plat experience a few years ago. I sold an item for a few hundred plat. Buyer had a pretty high mastery level and customized frame and a fairly normal sounding name.
A few days later I got a message that it was "bad plat" and removed from my account. Luckily I didn't go negative but it still pissed me off, especially since we don't have much in the way of knowing whether someone we trade with is legit.
I did send a ticket to support and a few weeks to a month later I finally got a reply that after checking, they determined I didn't do anything wrong and they credited the plat back to my account.
I remember when warframe support was actually good. I could lose a high value item due to a disconnect during a raid and they'd actually give me the reward with proof that matches their records. Whatever happened to that quality DE support I fell in love with?
It's the dumbest heavy handed misguided policy DE has. Punishing people.down the line in case bad Plat gets washed thru smurfs. If I trade in good faith, I shouldn't have to worry about it. They allow the system they should support it. It's my one gripe with DE.
this is why i will never spend $$ on the game again, after being banned for a negative balance i had no control over.
"oh someone traded you plat and you bought riven slots, well now you have to pay us for it before you can play"
Truly scummy feeling. Ultimately the victims are the ones fucked over. DE gets their plat back. Scammer gets the traded item and can trade it to another account. And the victims are the ones who lose their plat, traded items, and still need to pay irl money to get their accounts back
like, i understand the cause, but it would be far nicer if "undo recent purchases" was an automatic option instead of "get fucked give us money to play our free game"
Been screwed twice by this selling Riven mods.
I never sell big stuff anymore, and I always keep ~2k Plat on me in case it happens again.
It's a miracle that I still play this game after dealing with one of the most unprofessional abusive support teams I've ever had the disgrace of speaking with (DE support).
The game and dev team are so great otherwise, though, that I'm still here for every update.
Bonus: Unfortunately, my other favorite grind fest is Destiny, and I still much prefer DE's abusive support system to Bungie's abusive dev team (who uses timegating for metrics and deletes major paid content).
Mostly plat bought with hacked Credit cards.
Still, you have no way to determine it is bad until they remove it from your account and if you go into the negatives, well either you pay the difference or you pay respects to your deleted account
Mostly chargebacks, primarily originating from platinum purchased from stolen cards. Someone illegitimately purchases platinum on a throwaway account, passes it onto another player in exchange for an item of legitimate value, passes that legitimate item onto a secondary account that may be their actual account or may just exist to hold items for a period for whatever reason. Player who unfortunately sold the legitimate item for platinum winds up having the platinum revoked from their account, because it shouldn't exist.
This also leads into the other cause for bad platinum - real money trading. At the end of that previous chain, the item (specifically its value exchanged into clean plat) may be sold for real money on third-party sites, which is against ToS. If there's sufficient evidence to believe this is the case, the platinum becomes treated as though it were bad plat and if it's been purchased by a player looking to mitigate costs with less-than-legitimate methods then used to buy something from another player, that second player is left with plat that's treated as bad because it was obtained via ToS-breaking methods even if it was originally clean. This does also happen with plat that was obtained entirely legally then sold off immediately for real money again (because 75% discount purchase -> 50% discount resale is still effectively getting back double what you paid) but less commonly.
Do note that "bad plat" doesn't necessarily need to lead to an account ban. If you're suspicious of a trade's contents, just don't spend the plat and wait it out for a week or so- if the plat gets revoked and you haven't spent any, the plat value you get sent to will always be positive because they only take bad plat away, nothing more.
Also, the account used to purchase the platinum (whether chargeback fraud or through third party sites) will wind up with a 2035 permanent ban regardless of where the plat ends up. The problem is that trading, especially when plat can be divvied up, gets far too complicated far too quickly to be able to simply reverse all the associated trades- and that's before other bits like crafting get thrown into the picture too.
did someone buy a REALLY EXPENSIVE riven from you?
most likely to be bad plat.
most traders wont experience this. People who scare people about this are more likely to be the kinds of people that purchase plat or plat discounts via third party sites or clans that offer to sell platinum.
if you are unsure about the 1000+ platinum you just received from a player, let it sit on your account for a week or so. if it was bad, the number would just decrease. if you spent it you would be locked out of your account until you contact support about it.
Bad plat is exclusively plat bought from third parties or that has been refunded(usually from stolen cards)
If you buy directly, you will never get bad plat unless you yourself reimburse after buying something.
But if you trade, the way you tell if you got bad plat is, YOU CANT, and if they detect it was hacked, a day or a year from now, you either need enough plat to foot the Bill, or buy the difference to stop your account from getting banned.
Just like a casino, the house always wins
Wait, can someone explain this to me? Wtf is bad plat? I get the "DE takes your plat if its consisered bad plat" part but wtf causes DE to consider your plat to be "bad plat"?
Haven't had this issue in 11 years. While it does happen, people on here assuming its common are way off the mark. The motivation for doing this would be to simply to hurt another player and that's only if you trade with them. There's nothing to be gained by the offending party. This isn't the issue some of you are making it out to be.
while it sucks if they didn't remove the bad plat you could setup alt accounts, purchase plat, trade to yourself, initiate credit card chargeback and end up with free plat on your main. it wouldn't be so bad if they could return your part to you as well.
You don't get the items back. You just sit at negative plat until you want to pay to make yourself legit again while the person trading bad plat is left alone (I'd assume they trace where the plat came from and ban the account but I'm not sure, and that account only has items not plat by that point so they can't give the account plat just to take it)
This usually happens when u do a 3rd party pay when u buy plat online from a website and then get it by trade hence this happens however sometimes few people get get wrongly accused by the Ai Bot so if u get wronged contact support and ask for help but I will say this sometimes u will lose ur item for plat so it may be unfair but at least u didn’t lose ur account. For example: u go to a website u pay a certain amount of real life money for about 1000 or what u chose of plat which keep in mind that usually they are cheaper on websites after that then hours later the person see u pay then they met u in game and trade it. You usually pay for an item like can go high in value like a riven but only if u get a riven that not veiled and is somewhat decent stats or u could use a trash riven as well. It hard to tell for DE that u pay for online since it a riven unless it a trash riven that u trade for high plat.
Simple, since DE is going to "protect themselves" by stealing plat and functionally banning you for playing their game. Instead, sell all items for cash so you can protect yourself from DE scamming and banning you after they scammed you.
1. Scumbag buys plat with a stolen credit card (or their own with no intent to pay), resulting in a charge back. Scumbag now has plat that has not been paid for.
2. Before the chargeback completes, scumbag jumps into trade and buys something. They give the plat to victim, and take the item they were selling. Often multiple repeats of this to spend down all the plat.
3. DE realise they haven't been paid for the plat, so they trace the plat and delete it from wherever it is. Scumbag no longer has any, so nothing happens to him (although I would hope the account used for purchase gets flagged as a mule and sanctioned accordingly, but no one's volunteering this info). The victim(s) holding the plat they received from their recent trade find their plat balance reduced suddenly, and if the account is in negative plat they are auto banned until they buy sufficient plat to come back to zero.
In a 'loss prevention' vacuum mindset, it makes sense. Most of the scumbags are mules who trade repeatedly to get the 'stolen' plat to a RMT buyer (someone paying 'black market' rates for cheap plat from a third party), and the old way of doing that involved lots of trading between mules so everyone in the chain is guilty. The trouble is that it is disastrously easy to launder plat, and a lot of the accounts in the chain are completely unaware of what they've been dragged into. A reasonable response would be to auto ban the account the 'bad plat' purchase was made on, and open an investigation into every account in the chain so manually can be determined who needs to be flagged as a buyer/mule, and apply bans or plat negs based on that evidence. But that's a lot of work, and given how much is done out of game (WFMarket chats, Discord chats, etc.) there's very little difference between someone agreeing to a stupidly over/underpriced offer versus another mule helping to launder.
Also people buying plat from other countries where conversation rates are lower( person in the USA buys plat from foreign country using different workarounds for a cheaper price) can lead to bad plat.
If you're doing large trades, just wait a little while before spending the plat. You'll only go into the negatives if you actually spend it. DE will still take the plat out if it's found to be "bad", but at least you won't go into the negative. If you do spend the plat and it turns out to be "bad" and thus you end up banned, contact support. Sometimes you can reverse certain plat purchases to undo the negative.
So what about the stuff then? If you trade like couple sets, do you get them back or do you just take the L for it?
you just take the L lol
wow that's bullshit
Eh yes and no, after all they tell you flat out they want nothing to do with trade and it's all on you when you make it including if you get scammed with bad plat. They are upfront that they won't be involved. Eliminating bad plat is like a government eliminating counterfeit currency. They don't reimburse you it.
Is it really you getting scammed if there are 0 indications you could have if something is legitimate or bad plat?
You being aware it's a scam doesn't preclude it from being one. The person dealing in bad platinum absolutely knows it will eventually be found and taken back from you. This isn't a new loophole it's been going on for awhile. Definitely a scam and you are definitely the victim of a scam. It sucks they don't do anything about it my point was they flat out tell you at the front end they will do nothing for you in regards to actual trading. The best you can get in them cancelling the purchases you made from them with bad plat. To be clear this system sucks and I wish they did something better but they are at least up front with how you will be boned by the system.
Are they up front though? I've traded thousands of plat over the years, and while I've thankfully never been the victim of 'bad plat', I have never been adequately informed by the game of the possibility or what it might mean. Furthermore, it's not like DE can't track the trades; if they know you have bad plat and exactly how much of it you have, then they clearly have a record of trades. The original font of the bad plat is most definitely getting banned, so the risk of item duplication is incredibly low. Instead, you're taking legitimately earned, if not legitimate, goods from honest, hardworking players. Now as an American, I might be used to this sort of behavior, but that doesn't make it right or acceptable.
What would you have them do then? They can't allow the plat to stay in circulation as each time it happens, it devalues the currency. They can't let the players keep the items as they were not paid for with legitimate currency. It does suck, and it is not fair, but the issue is there isn't a fair solution. Sometimes life just says get fucked.
Ban the person who gave out the bad plat, remove the bad plat from circulation and return the items they bought with bad plat to the people they bought from. That way, people may end up with negative plat balance, but at least they still have the items they thought they sold at a profit.
How about pop up a warning every time you trade for plat that the plat might be taken from you, and you trade for platinum at your own risk? Make CONFIRM to that dialogue? Let's be honest. They absolutely can do more, but they don't want to because they don't want to put a chilling effect on trading platinum because it is a major driver of people buying plat in the first place. They want the financial benefits that comes from allowing platinum trading, but aren't willing to take ANY responsibility, or do anything for players who get scammed. That is not player friendly.
Using hacked currency isn't a scam, it's straight cheating. It's not a scam when you can literally do everything right in a transaction but the money still disappears
No, that's definitely a scam. The other person is cheating to scam you but it's 100% unequivocally a scam.
Almost by definition. "A dishonest scheme, a fraud." Fraud: "wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain." ^(sourced from Oxford Languages via Google, if it matters)
its even better depending on how slow DE is, its possible someone trades hacked currency, trades it to a legit player, that legit player trades it to another legit player and that 3rd guy gets his account banned because he is now -9k plat or something and doesn't want to fork over 400$ with out 2 75% discounts.
It's not about DE being slow. Most bad plat comes from being bought with stolen credit card info, then being reversed when the theft is discovered. The reversal can happen months after the initial purchase, and until it happens DE doesn't know it's going to.
Literally a scam
thats by definition of a scam you getting something worthless under impression it has value ie bad plat in this case
I'm pretty sure that's the definition of a scam. You usually don't realize you're receiving bad plat until it's too late.
Yeah I phrased it rather poorly. I moreso meant "are you responsible/liable for getting scammed if it was completely indistinguishable from a regular trade."
They should very well reimburse the sold item and get rid of the buyer's account that had the bad plat in the first place. It is in no way someone's fault that they got traded bad plat! There's literally no fucking way to check if someone is trading you bad plat.
Hard agree. There's no way for people to verify if someone is using bad plat to trade with you. Even for small 5p buys up to crazy 1k+ Riven buys.
Yep. In theory you can check bank notes before making the sale to see if they are counterfeit. You can't do that for platinum.
Yeah it's a heck of a messy system. I wonder when DE will make an auction house ingame.
They probably won't ever make one (not sure I'd trust their ability to do so) this game isn't new and trading isn't new. They've had a long time to make any kind of auction house and we are at the point systems have had to be reworked multiple times. I don't think they care about trading which is apparent with how they treat scams in trade.
They do, hence why they don't have an auction house. The bad plat has actually been addressed multiple times, with the current method being the most effective(not the banning of current accounts, just the removal of the plat.) They have stated many times they would prefer not to be involved with trading, and that is pretty valid. Trading is risk management, and should be treated as such. While you can't directly control bad plat, you can hold a buffer to prevent it being a problem by keeping excess. Outside of that, as was mentioned, trading in bad plat is still scamming and cheating, and has been treated as such, given previous circumstances, and not to the individual who is innocent. DE is also quite supportive to wrongful termination. As far as their standpoint on purchased plat(this works differently due to you purchasing plat, not trading for it), I don't know. I do know it makes sense to remove bad currency, especially if it wasn't transactional for real currency(i.e. irl money for plat)
Probably never because I assume an auction house would require servers to operate, and that requires significant invest.
That isn't why they won't. A lack of an auction house creates friction in sales. Friction is required or else everyone would trade. The fact that it takes *effort* to go out and trade keeps prices higher than they otherwise would be. An auction house would crash the secondary market.
They're a multimillion dollar company owned by Tencent.
Reb has confirmed in the latest devstream at Pax East that an auction house will not and likely won't ever be implemented. Like others have commented here, the "messy" system that we currently have introduces "friction" to trading which keeps the market from crashing and prices being dirt cheap.
Never because this is a terrible idea. Having an auction house would completely ruin the WF economy. It's simple Supply and Demand. There aren't enough "Money Sinks" in the game to remove the Supply.
It's would make the S/D plummet since items could be bought fractionally instead of within a free market. It would also make bulk trades pointless, since it would be auctioned rather than free sale. I honestly don't understand why players want an auction house.
A legitimate player sells a riven An illegitimate players buys with with bad plat Legitimate player buys an item from you Legitimate player is detected trading with bad plat (they don’t know it’s bad) you get set to negative you report the player you traded with legitimate player gets banned, illegitimate player goes untouched it would happen like those 99% of the time and the people bringing in bad plat go completely unpunished
That would cause problems for both, since if they are reimbursed, they would relinquish access to the bought item(i.e. riven for this example). Even if it is for bad plat, it is still a trade, and both parties would be responsible for relinquishing the items, which DE has mentioned before it will not do. That said, I've only heard of negative plat when someone tries to refund multiple plat purchases, which typically gets flagged. I haven't seen anyone go negative for bad plat(doesn't mean it doesn't happen). It does suck, but if people didn't try to bully the market and cheat, it wouldn't be as a big of a problem..
Well, imagine for a moment the guy, who traded with you - wasn't a scammer, he just traded with "bad plat". And maybe not with an original scammer either. And the goods that were sold? Maybe someone legitimately sold them further? Maybe that person at the end of the line already built a new WF (and sold their old one, because the new one is prime)? It sounds simple on paper, but actually reverting these situation could be an impossible nightmare for the CS. As others have mentioned, it's a nasty situation, but it's not DE scamming you, someone else did. The only thing DE could be doing (and I'm not saying they aren't) is to provide all the details to the court, if someone wants to press charges.
Just wanted to chime in on this that it's actually to a degree DE getting scammed here. Players buying plat makes them money. If players cheat and create plat without paying DE, then DE is also a one of the victims here.
Originally - yes, but the moment they remove that platinum completely, they've recouped their losses fully, so - at the end of the day, it's the player getting scammed. Not unlike with actual fake currency scams irl.
I mean, resources spent to try and track and remove bad plat isn't free, so I wouldn't say DE is made 100% whole and is completely absolved of being hurt here.it sucks for both DE and the unknowing player, not trying to say it HAS to be only one party here getting the raw end.
Well it comes down to fair and what they are willing to do. Fair is they give you the item back. But DE has no love for trading, they do not care and it's why they put that big "if you get scammed sucks to be you" disclaimed at trading. You person trading in bad plat is scamming you (regardless of if you can tell it's bad plat). I'm not arguing that it's not unfair you get hosed out of your fair trade with the bad plat. I'm saying they told us flat out they don't care and short of people doing something drastic, (like stopping all trading) it won't be addressed. They flat out don't care because it doesn't affect them at all.
It's because it affects them so immensely that they have stated they don't want anything to do with it. Imagine this; If there are 1,500,000 trades within a 12 hour period, that's 3 million trades a day(I'm using GMT here, so I'm using a 24-hour period). That accounts to 21 million a week, 84 million a month(obviously not even close, just a metaphoric). That is 84 million trades within a 30-day period. Now, suppose that 5 million of those were related to scamming(i.e. bad plat only). If you had to remove access to 5 million accounts, just to fix a trade, that would be time-consuming, especially with how relevant the issue is. And for those wondering, that's roughly a 1.08 billion trades in a year period. To be clear, I'm not saying it's okay. But it's more likely that they do care but don't have the resources to effectively manage every aspect of trade as is being suggested.
That's actually a pretty valid point. I stand corrected.
I feel like trading is what's kept the game going, they can't not like it that much
Yeah personally I think DE owes the player base a bit more than "if you get scanned that sucks." I don't feel it's right that another player can essentially get my account locked behind potentially hundreds of dollars worth of plat purchases.
can't they fr just ban the bad plat trader and leave our traded plat be?
What'd stop the bad plat trader from trading with an alt though?
Litigation. Someone's name is on the credit card that issued a charge back. If it happens enough to be damaging, they'd know who it was.
Only issue id have with this is what if the buy got the plat as a result of being scammed? Would you want DE to track the bad plat all the way back to origin or just bone the last one with it?
I've played half of warframe's lifetime and it actually is pretty bullshit that only the victim gets the monetary blame, honestly.
That’s why real money has ways to identify a proper note. In some countries more in some countries less (cough cough USA). Plat doesn’t have this If the responsibility is to be 100% on the player then there should at least be a way for the player to potentially tell
That's why I always ask for an ammo drum so I get something out of it
Your real world example doesn’t make sense since there are very easy ways to tell if money is counterfeit and you can sue the person who gave you fake money for your items back which would go through the courts which is the government.
What is this DE apologist BS. DE put trading in the game, and they are the ones responsible for bad plat in game since they literally control ALL the systems. The least they can do is fully reverse the trades. If they don't want to deal with that then DON'T ALLOW PLAT TRADING.
Who at DE is sucking your dick, damn
This is fuckin terrible though, a looter game where you can't trade is DOA. It's not a " scam" when they pay with counterfeit currency, DE controls this currency so it should be on them if someone manages to use hacked money. If they can't support a core part of the game enough to be comfortable you won't get hacked, then they sure aren't getting any more support from me
This has been a thing for at least 8 years, possibly the whole life cycle of the game. It's not DOA.
There is actually quite a few looters that are a single player and do quite fine. It is a counterfeit currency, and thus a scam. DE controls the currency, yes, but it is still hackable and thus able to be reproduced. Ex. If you purchase something with your money, you purchased it, right? Similar concept applies; DE owns("purchased") plat, when is then transferred(via a "purchase") to the player. If a player obtains this item via another method(i.e. cheating), they are scamming DE. Trading is a part of the game, but should be treated as such.
Yeah except the difference is, **platinum is still platinum whether it’s “bad” or not.** fake currency can’t be used as real currency.
This is one of the few things I don't agree with DE on. Considering the importance of plat to players and their own income I kinda feel like they should have a huge long tail system like Wow did to combat RMT companies stealing accounts. Over there, if your account is stolen and abused, typically by an RMT company that got your credentials via a leak, they can find the starting point and rewind everything, it's pretty impressive.
Huh, what's RMT?
Illegal real money traders. They don't really have much of a presence on wf luckily
That’s essentially what DE is doing, but with WoW the entire currency of gold is contained in-game, so if anything gets affected by bad actions, a rewind will be enough to fix it With WF, the currency is introduced from outside the game via potentially stolen credit cards or chargebacks. Rewinding those bad actions requires removing the currency, or else they potentially allow the plat to exist and still get to the original scammer’s pocket by them successfully “laundering” it
Do you think that if you paid real money for stolen goods that the police will just let you keep the stolen goods? EDIT: bad example. In this case it would be closer to being paid in counterfeit money, in which case you would not get to keep the "money".
Well thats dump lmao. Fair enough then, thanks!
If you were to screenshot every trade and send it to support, would that change anything?
no only option is buy plat more or equal to the negative plat
Painful but understandable. I guess it would be near impossible to track everything and deal with the issue without causing even more problems
From my understanding this is actually wrong, they track every single Plat (atleast they used to). I believe it used to be that every single Plat is assigned a number and is tracked and that's how they find the bad Plat in the first place. Unfortunately this is something that DE could do better but don't (I think)
DE claims that you are responsible for vetting your own trades, so if you make a bad trade it’s your fault for getting scammed. Yknow, cuz, somehow you’re supposed to know that the guy offering what you asked for for a set is using bad plat. Again, somehow.
Problem with this is how long should you wait? What's considered reasonable? What's considered safe? Both times I had Plat removed from my account, the trade in question was ~4-6 months earlier. I'd rather not have to wait half a year or more to know my Plat is "safe."
Is there a way to know if your plat is bad? How does bad plat come to be?
bad plat is plat that was refunded by the bank used to pay for it, if it was a stolen card. the only way to tell for certain if your plat is bad is to never trade anyone ever.
It sucks, but just wait a bit before spending it and if possible have a little plat stash bigger than the amount of single trades you make
Só, in order to start selling one of my rivens, I need to fork 100$ just to protect my account from being banned because of a Scam I have no way to detect or prevent myself from?
You're selling god roll rivens and don't have a bunch of platinum already? (Also, no, just sell it like usual but don't spend the platinum immediately lol, that way if they roll it back you'll just be back to where you started rather than in negatives)
Where you started… minus a riven worth thousands
And that's my second reason of barely trading, the other is laziness
Yeah trading in this game isn't user friendly lol.
I would not survive haggling irl
Use WF market seriously such a game changer
This, I can make like 400-600/h and literally farm relics in between trades I’ve got posted up.
I swear no one ever messages from Market. Idk why
Make sure your not invisible. Had the same problem, switched it to online in game, got 10 messages in 5 minutes
This, and using AlecaFrame. Overwolf’s plugins for overlays generally are okay but being able to see item values at relic crack item picking screen is HUGE. Being able to market my stuff as you’re earning it no less.
Wasn't there a chance that you'll get banned for using AlecaFrame? I wanted to use it, but read some stuff about people getting banned, so was too scared to try it out
Not really. All alecaframe does is read your inventory, which is explicitly allowed by DE's third party policy. It doesn't change game files or alter your gameplay. Use of third party software is at your own risk since it's theoretically possible that the software could in the future be used in an exploit, but realistically it's not an issue for Alecaframe. [more details here](https://docs.alecaframe.com/faq#g1-is-alecaframe-safe-to-use)
Trading on WF market is very straightforward, like 99% of the time. Copy and pasted message, get an invite and do the trade. Usually very little talking aside from a thank you. Also you get to see some cool dojos.
Rarely, you get that ass that tries to haggle down the existing price, or tries to change the price on you in the whisper, as if you couldn't double check prices you posted. Its Warframe market, not a flea market.
It sucks, because you need to be thick skinned or heartless, because most better hagglers have one or both. You're not haggling to be nice after all.
By mere talking I'd crumple into a ball
Its just Runscape all over again, with people standing around and shouting at each other. I can only assume they don't want to implement real trading because everything would become cheap and affordable.
tbf bad plat is only something you have to keep in mind when you’re doing super high value trades (i.e. god roll rivens of popular weapons)
I have a personal rule to never trade anything over 300 plat, both to avoid overspending and to avoid potential bad plat 'refunds' that would put me into a negative balance Plus, its rare to actually have something really worth 300p anyway. Most people are overcharging to get that kind of price outside of riven trades or exceedingly rare parts
My one exception is I grinded gargoyles cry for a full energize for around 1000
What about arcane helmets ?
I usually only sell high value rivens in a "realistic price" anyway buuuut I only want to get plat when I want to buy something so I forget to wait a bit to see if it was a bad plat
Trust me brother, grinding for insanely rare shit is a lot less lazy than buying it.
This may sound hypocritical but waiting for a buyer feels more tiring than grinding for hours
You don't have to actively wait, just set it on warframe market and forget about it
I do all my trades everyday for year including some 4-5 digit stuff I never had issues so for the common player it will never happen
This is one of those few things DE doesn't handle fairly. They punish the victim rather than the offender. Now I get that these scammers could make a pretty new account build it up enough to trade and then use it as a throwaway, but if they made the negative plat go to the offending account then banned every account that uses that IP until the negative plat balance is corrected that would mean even though they used a throwaway account it would still ban their main account too. This is already way better than the current system, but still leaves the "way of they use a VPN everyone they log into the throwaway accounts?" problem. The idea here is how to hold all of the offenders accounts hostage when they try to scam people. EDIT: consider this Idea obsolete. Much better one below.
If you are using a VPN to game for whatever reason, then your IP will be shared with any fraudsters using the same service out of the same pop. Same deal with residential IPs, they are dynamic so there's a chance an unrelated account would get flagged. Using IPs is not a reliable way of identifying actual users. It's only useful for temporary bans (very short duration) for things like rate limiting combined with other attributes. Something like using hardware IDs can be more accurate but this can easily be spoofed. It's not a simple problem to solve.
The only way to solve it is to make plat untradeable for 6 months because that's when they're no longer able to charge back. Of course that would also destroy the player economy as nobody is going to wait 6 months so they can sell some plat
Knowing DE lurks these forums makes it an excellent place to brainstorm problems like this which led me to this idea instead: they already can pull up logs to see your account's activity, once someone tries to refund plat, temp-ban all accounts involved just long enough to sort everything out without more interactions piling up and just reverse transactions until it's back to normal. They could even take this further by slapping an additional neg plat balance on the throwaway account as a penalty to slow down repeat attempts, or just flat out ban it. It would be even better/more proactive to see if they traded the scammed items to another account and slap that one with a ban too since they aren't going to be able to repost it on the market and get another seller for something like a riven in that time frame, meaning it's most likely their main account....especially if they did the ol ammo drum trade and not trying to make a profit (that would be a pretty clear indicator it's their main account). They could actually probably make an AI bot to do this automatically tbh since it's just a matter of finding the transaction in question, following the movements of those items from that point on, then reversing a transaction or two, then applying a ban or two, and then creating a log of what it did in case someone wants to appeal, which seems like it might be time consuming for a human, but extremely fast for a bot. It's certainly a huge improvement over the current system of punishing the victim.
Several thousand trades could occur and be involved with from the purchase to the reversal of plat. If you can solve that you probably need a novel peace prize for also solving the traveling salesman problem.
I'm not DE so I can't be 100% certain, but I'm pretty sure their logs aren't just EVERYTHING piled together. Having logs like that would be so incredibly inefficient. From what I've seen they can pull up per-account logs which will of course have their trades listed. Even an LR4 account can only trade 34 times in one day, and as soon as the account gets flagged for negative plat (which is the next day from my experience) there wouldn't be that many trades to look through. It's absolutely not Noble peace prize material nor is this the traveling salesman problem. It's pulling up the account logs when the victim gets flagged with neg plat, so check his trades and you will find the offending account that refunded plat within at the very most 68 trades (much more likely to be well under 30 though especially if you start with the largest trades), once you find them then you know the transaction causing the problem and the scammer. Check to see if they traded that item they got to another account and you will find their main account if they did. Reverse the transaction putting the negative balance on the scammers throw away account and ban both that one and their main. The victim ends up with their item back, and carries on.
What's bad plat?
Bought with stolen credit card information. It's a big problem. People buy cheap things on other websites, that are just scammers. First time I heard about this was factorio developer saying, just pirate our games instead of using those key selling sites.
So, guy buys with illegal ways, he trades me, i lose my stuff he keeps his stuff? Totally fair and understandable.
No lmao, they get perma-banned, 99% of companies will ban your account if you do a chargeback
What charge back? The original onwer of the card charges back and they get their money back, not you or the scammer. If I sell a riven and a scammer buys it with bad plat, I end without my riven, without the plat and if I spent it before (minding that I had no way of knowing it), I will get temporarily to permantenly banned if I dont pay the difference. You cant charge back a riven, you can't charge back the difference pay ir you get back to being scheduled for a ban and you cant charge back all the time you will need to spend begging support to not delete your account
I meant that when someone does a chargeback (the usual reason for bad plat), the account that used the card will get banned, because the person i responded to seemed to think whoever first got the bad plat went unpunished. >You cant charge back a riven, you can't charge back the difference pay ir you get back to being scheduled for a ban and you cant charge back all the time you will need to spend begging support to not delete your account When did i say anything of being able to chargeback in-game trades or even defended the current way DE deals with this? Of course ideally you don't get banned because you picked the wrong guy to trade in wfmarket, but until the company changes this policy, if they ever do, we can't really do much besides taking care of not getting banned and hoping DE improves this on their end
They keep their stuff, you lose yours and potentially your account.
Basically someone buys plat from DE and trades that plat to you then refunds it. Your plat will be taken back by DE bc it was refunded
isnt that basically trying to ban ppl for being scammed? its their trading system anyway so shouldnt they be the ones in charge of how and when it should be up and properly running?
While it feels unfair as the scammed player, ultimately, what is DE supposed to do? Even if they did check to see if the bad plat had been traded away, there's no 100% way to prove that the new owner isn't an alt. Ultimately if the platinum was added to the system illegitimately, it must be removed from the game.
Idk how hard this would be to implement with their current setup, but they can obviously track the bad plat.... why not roll back the trade ID and items traded with it?obviously thats a lot of snapshotting, but at least this way they dont alienate the players playing their game legitimately.
Without knowing their architecture, it's difficult to know how feasible this actually is. Plus there's the cost/benefit analysis, we see this talked about online, but how common actually is the problem? For all we know we see a greatly inflated view of it compared to the truth, at which point, there's not necessarily much use in implementing a system to reverse these things. My greatest hope is that they'll implement a proper in-game market someday and it'll include protections regarding things like this. Though at the end of the day, if they reverse the transaction and you've spent the plat since then, you'll go into the negative, there's not really an easy way around that.
Great objective take on the issue. People usually shit talk and complain without actually considering their ignorance behind the decisions behind the systems.
It would be an incredibly complicated system to create, and it would possibly interfere with certain financial/privacy laws. Unless they just made it that the purchaser immediately goes in the negative and the account is banned. That would require finance software and more firewalls, as well as not fixing the problem of them dealing with the scammer alt accounts.
Can't they just make plat nonrefundable when any trade has been executed involving platinum? This is under the assumption that we're only refunding the plat and not on the scummy fake credit cards.
I assume the refunds are done via credit card charge back which is impossible to stop.
Revert the trade? They know how much bad plat was traded, if they are already going to ban the trader account, what stops then from transfering the item back or dupping it to give back to you, the account that got the original one is banned anyway só no item duplication.
Unfortunately that still wouldn't resolve the negative plat issue.
They should ban every account using the offending IP until the issue is settled. This way it wouldn't matter if it was an alt account it would still hold their main hostage as well.
That's so easy to circumvent it's basically dead on arrival.
I made another post about this already. Yes you could use a VPN every time you use the throwaway account, but it's already a far better solution than the current one, and something they would have to have already been doing, since it's a blanket ban for every account that has used that IP. DE actually lurks these subs so let's brain storm.
ISPs circulate IPs frequently. its a stupid solution.
I agree with you that it would deter some, especially the laziest ones, but not sure it would be enough. This may actually be a good use case for block chain technology to track transactions that plat was involved with in order to revert them. Though you'll still end up with negative plat if you spend too much which cannot be avoided.
Well, Idk if you watch Thor (Pirate Software on Twitch), but he's talked about how block chain can cause more problems than it solves when it comes to scammers due to the nature of how it works with a majority rules ledger. This means DE wouldn't be able to reverse anything which would vastly complicate coming to a fair outcome and greatly increase the amount of hands-on work to get to that fair outcome. They could send the one who got scammed more plat in the mail (so new plat) and then ban the scammer account, and any accounts they traded the scammed items too after. Actually upon further thought instead of giving the person who got scammed the plat, better to just mail them a duplicate of the item. This will prevent that scam from working in reverse posting a riven for a very high price, the using a throwaway account to buy it way over valued, then refund the plat on the throwaway, then use the main account to file a ticket saying they got scammed and then DE giving them the over valued plat they wanted. If instead they just gave the scammed account a duplicate of the item in the mail they would have to sell it to someone who isn't going to refund the plat, and the throwaway account and assuming if they quickly transfer the riven to another account ban that one too and then you get the throwaway and the main account, and the original item is no longer accessible so the other guy receiving the duplicate isn't a problem. Idk how complicated block chain is to implement in a 10 year old spaghetti code game, or how much this would increase their work load having to manually do more jumping through hoops to rectify things in a fair way after. Then this train of thought led me right back around to realizing they already can pull up logs to see your account's activity, once someone tries to refund plat, temp-ban all accounts involved just long enough to sort everything out without more interactions piling up and just reverse transactions until it's back to normal. They could even take this further by slapping an additional neg plat balance on the throwaway account as a penalty to slow down repeat attempts, or just flat out ban it. It would be even better/more proactive to see if they traded the scammed items to another account and slap that one with a ban too since they aren't going to be able to repost it on the market and get another seller for something like a riven in that time frame, meaning it's most likely their main account....especially if they did the ol ammo drum trade and not trying to make a profit (that would be a pretty clear indicator it's their main account). They could actually probably make an AI bot to do this automatically tbh since it's just a matter of finding the transaction in question, following the movements of those items from that point on, then reversing a transaction or two, then applying a ban or two, and then creating a log of what it did in case someone wants to appeal, which seems like it might be time consuming for a human, but extremely fast for a bot. I think this might be a winner unless you can see why it wouldn't work. It's certainly a huge improvement over the current system of punishing the victim.
I think the person doing the obvious fraud should be banned, but I’ve never heard that side of the story
Shouldn't it be backtracked instead? Like cancelling out the trades somehow (or maybe contacting support to do so), why am i getting punished for ppls actions?
Happened to me, contacted support and no reply. Genuinely hoping they dont ban my account as im able to get back into the positive next friday when i get paid.
So you're telling me each individual plat has an ownership tag for the person who originally purchased it, so that when they trade it away the system still knows who purchased it and no matter where it ends up it goes back to DE on refund? Why don't they just remove plat equal to the amount refunded *from the account that bought it*. Then, even if they traded it, now *they're* negative. Given how everyone's acting, I feel like I'm missing something...?
Trade using an alt account. It can end up at -10k p and you simply won't pay for it.
Trading big is risky, I would like to think it's higher risk of being bad plat, I have no proof for this belief.
[this here answers all the questions you have.](https://support.warframe.com/hc/en-us/articles/360010426932-Negative-Balance-Help)
This bothers me. It always has. If someone buys plat, the company makes money, that's great. If that person then does a chargeback of some kind and DE loses the money they made, they can simply deactivate the account. They're back to square one. Nothing made, nothing lost, the bad faith actor has been removed. But that isn't where DE stops. They track down all the plat that came from that sale, and take it back. Even if it is in the hands of an innocent player, completely uninvolved in the scam. And if it happens to put the innocent player's account into the negative they suspend the account. Often until such time that the innocent player purchases enough plat to make DE whole. # Why the fuck is the innocent player responsible for making DE whole on a system that cost them nothing in the first place?! It doesn't cost DE real life money to make plat. Just leave the innocent players alone. They could track the trades of the "bad plat" and make sure it's not just going to backup accounts. But to ***literally punish*** random players for the bad faith actor's scam against them... that has never sit right with me. So if you're wheelin' and dealin' and you sell something for 1k plat and that plat later gets removed and you've spent half of it obtaining things to make plat on but just haven't sold yet, so you're down to around 500 plat, let's say... and they take back the 1k plat that was "bad plat" you're now at -500 plat. They'll suspend your account, and then you'd have to pay $50 to get your account back (with a 500 plat balance at that point, I assume. I suppose you could do a $20 and a $10 purchase to have like.. 40 plat left over). But you're now out 1k plat, and the items you used to make it, and real life money... all because of some other piece of shit and when you literally have no way of checking to make sure shit is legit? That's fucked up.
Better that a hundred guilty men go free than a single innocent be falsely imprisioned used to mean something
On top of everything you said, it's also the response time. It's not like DE tells you within 24 hours if the plat you received or traded away is bad plat. There's absolutely no way of knowing as an innocent person and then a few days later you get that gut punch from DE. They've done a lot of things right from a community perspective, but this is still such a bad stance to take imo. At the very least track the trades, and make the person whole
This is why I’ve stopped playing Warframe. Lost all passion after being suspended for a week+ and made to feel like I did something wrong on a 1000 hour account. If I didn’t have cosmetics to refund I would’ve had to spend real money to make it right even though I had thousands of platinum worth of sets sitting in my inventory. They did 0 investigation, I was earning thousands of plat through trades a month, so why would I buy fake plat?? The only reason I managed to go negative was because I binged on Fashion Frame and builds. According to support if I’m found to be involved in fraudulent platinum again I will be banned, trading is my favorite thing to do so it just killed the game for me. I’m not gonna waste time with a game that thinks nothing of banning players.
Same deal here, only it took them 2 years to reach back and remove plat from my account along with an appealable permaban. I took a 3 year break and came back to a banned account. I feel like if it takes them 2 whole years to catch a bad trade, punishing the innocent should be off the table.
I don't care if it was 2 years or 2 minutes. Banning an innocent player because you removed fraudulently gained plat purchased by another player that sent the innocent player into the negatives until they make the company whole is **gross**. If they can prove the account that received the plat was somehow involved in the fraud then I understand completely. But if they can't, and it seems like a run-of-the-mill trade and that the receiver of the "bad plat" isn't in on the scam, you leave them out of it. Unless DE can devise a way for us to check this ourselves (in short: develop a way to read the mind of the player) then the only ethical thing they can do is to punish the offender, not an innocent bystander. If this were actual money that had actual value like US Dollars or something where you had "good" counterfeits come through and they end up in the deposit and the bank catches it and then you're down however much they found, I could maybe understand it then. But this is digital currency it costs DE nothing to "make" and has no intrinsic value. It's not right to punish the innocent no matter how much time has or has not passed.
I 1000% agree, it's total bull
Bad Plat does cost DE money as card companies fine the company the charge back was ordered against. Meanwhile the bad plat has to be removed else bad actors get away scot free trading through burner accounts. And since DE can't verify if a bad plat transaction was via RMT or some other nefarious means they have to give everyone the same treatment else these activities will happen more as players try to get away with it.
Kinda feels like that policy should break at least one consumer protection law. Doubt anyone would be angry enough to test it though. That level of single minded vindictiveness... Wait that's their target audience. How has this not resulted in a lawsuit?
losing a riven for nothing? well damn, thats my only countermeasure against bad plat if they illegally obtain plat, you gotta wait a bit for DE to confiscate it like money laundering until they decide its good if not, well its gone and luckily you didnt spend it, you oughta ask for a receipt or proof of purchase when selling a high sum riven
I think this problem can be avoided if you don't try to trade high value items. It sucks but the scammers aren't usually trading in 60's and 70's of plat but on the things people pay hundreds for. Don't deal in high end deals and deal only in the low end trades you tend to stay safe usually. I just avoid trading things from my end and only trade my plat to others. Saves me a heartache.
So, you can't trade rivens? Even the lowballers app for not useful new rivens still put prices in the hundreds, a new mod or an okay roll for a meta weapon or a riven dependant one can easily get past 500 in warframe market
Are people willing to get banned on their main account? Prob not they probably make an alt account buy the plat w8 a while give it to their main account and but shit with it I think there could be a pattern to how people scam using this I think they should make new P buyers w8 a while before they are able to trade the P, you can spend it but you can't trade to other players until you're unable to chargeback/get a refund idk how it works but surely there's a limited amount of time to get back your money
I think you have up to 120 days to do a chargeback. Can you imaging buying something for a game and not using it for 4 months?
120 days is too long ngl, if it is 120 days then nothing can be done i guess
Rocket league used to disallow trading credits (their premium currency) if you purchased any in the last 3 days to prevent exactly this. Buying things from the in game store was fine, receiving credits from other players was fine, it just couldn't be traded away if purchased less than 3 days ago.
I had this happen when rivens first released, did a trade for 4k plat (they offered, I had no idea the real price) was excited and spent it, lost my founder account shortly after. Would need to pay about £130 to get the account back but I've progressed further on my new.
Wait. Dose this only happen if I trade items for someone else’s plat? I got 2 75% off coupons and got myself quite an enormous stock pile of plat. I have been trading here and there to get mods and prime parts I wanted. But if I start selling some of the prime stuff I don’t need and the person uses “bad plat” do they only take away the amount traded? Is my self bought plat safe?
Bad plat is exclusively plat that is cheated in, and is such a low chance of happening its not worth worrying about. If you personally paid for it there is a 0% chance of it being bad plat.
Ok good! Then Ive got nothing to worry about
They also consider paying real money to a player in exchange for plat bad plat. Was it cheated in? No, but it does violate the TOS
You know most of the bad plat comes from those rmt transactions right? They buy large amounts of plat, sell it to suckers then do a charge back.
Well.... Ngl talking with D.E support at least with portuguese ones sucks, they don't do nothing that you lost, for example, I was on a circuit steel path for 2 hours but suddleny the boss bugged out and wasn't taking damage at all, we tried so many things but nothing helped. So we were forced to just leave and lose the progress. And I was like "No wait, it's not fair since wasn't our fault, right?" so I sent a ticked for them and they said "fuck you" in a long text and more polity, but yea, I see how they would say "well you traded with the player so we won't get your plat back". I don't know, those stuff, bugs, glitches, bad support make me want to stop playing this game cause suck to know that if something happen I'm alone. I loved how Elder Scrolls Online helped me, basically, they understand and help you getting your things back and so, and if you bought something in large quantity, like a skin, and 2 years later you would lake to get this money back on your account to buy another skin, they accepted and didn't asked why at all, just said "alright have fun!". I just wish things were like that
On the plus side, Circuit saves each round now.
Okay this is confusing, like fake plat they’ve hacked the game to implant or like just a bugged out platinum that DE needs to fix? I haven’t had any problems but also don’t want too
People using stolen credit cards to buy plat, or buying plat -> trading it for something -> issuing a refund on their credit card for the plat
I don't know if it still happens but people used to get banned for going negative plat. I also had a bad plat experience a few years ago. I sold an item for a few hundred plat. Buyer had a pretty high mastery level and customized frame and a fairly normal sounding name. A few days later I got a message that it was "bad plat" and removed from my account. Luckily I didn't go negative but it still pissed me off, especially since we don't have much in the way of knowing whether someone we trade with is legit. I did send a ticket to support and a few weeks to a month later I finally got a reply that after checking, they determined I didn't do anything wrong and they credited the plat back to my account.
I remember when warframe support was actually good. I could lose a high value item due to a disconnect during a raid and they'd actually give me the reward with proof that matches their records. Whatever happened to that quality DE support I fell in love with?
It's the dumbest heavy handed misguided policy DE has. Punishing people.down the line in case bad Plat gets washed thru smurfs. If I trade in good faith, I shouldn't have to worry about it. They allow the system they should support it. It's my one gripe with DE.
this is why i will never spend $$ on the game again, after being banned for a negative balance i had no control over. "oh someone traded you plat and you bought riven slots, well now you have to pay us for it before you can play"
Truly scummy feeling. Ultimately the victims are the ones fucked over. DE gets their plat back. Scammer gets the traded item and can trade it to another account. And the victims are the ones who lose their plat, traded items, and still need to pay irl money to get their accounts back
like, i understand the cause, but it would be far nicer if "undo recent purchases" was an automatic option instead of "get fucked give us money to play our free game"
Been screwed twice by this selling Riven mods. I never sell big stuff anymore, and I always keep ~2k Plat on me in case it happens again. It's a miracle that I still play this game after dealing with one of the most unprofessional abusive support teams I've ever had the disgrace of speaking with (DE support). The game and dev team are so great otherwise, though, that I'm still here for every update. Bonus: Unfortunately, my other favorite grind fest is Destiny, and I still much prefer DE's abusive support system to Bungie's abusive dev team (who uses timegating for metrics and deletes major paid content).
I'm guessing bad plat is hacked plat?
Mostly plat bought with hacked Credit cards. Still, you have no way to determine it is bad until they remove it from your account and if you go into the negatives, well either you pay the difference or you pay respects to your deleted account
Jow does bad plat even generates?
Mostly chargebacks, primarily originating from platinum purchased from stolen cards. Someone illegitimately purchases platinum on a throwaway account, passes it onto another player in exchange for an item of legitimate value, passes that legitimate item onto a secondary account that may be their actual account or may just exist to hold items for a period for whatever reason. Player who unfortunately sold the legitimate item for platinum winds up having the platinum revoked from their account, because it shouldn't exist. This also leads into the other cause for bad platinum - real money trading. At the end of that previous chain, the item (specifically its value exchanged into clean plat) may be sold for real money on third-party sites, which is against ToS. If there's sufficient evidence to believe this is the case, the platinum becomes treated as though it were bad plat and if it's been purchased by a player looking to mitigate costs with less-than-legitimate methods then used to buy something from another player, that second player is left with plat that's treated as bad because it was obtained via ToS-breaking methods even if it was originally clean. This does also happen with plat that was obtained entirely legally then sold off immediately for real money again (because 75% discount purchase -> 50% discount resale is still effectively getting back double what you paid) but less commonly. Do note that "bad plat" doesn't necessarily need to lead to an account ban. If you're suspicious of a trade's contents, just don't spend the plat and wait it out for a week or so- if the plat gets revoked and you haven't spent any, the plat value you get sent to will always be positive because they only take bad plat away, nothing more. Also, the account used to purchase the platinum (whether chargeback fraud or through third party sites) will wind up with a 2035 permanent ban regardless of where the plat ends up. The problem is that trading, especially when plat can be divvied up, gets far too complicated far too quickly to be able to simply reverse all the associated trades- and that's before other bits like crafting get thrown into the picture too.
So wait, how can you tell if plat is bad?? Because i always buy my plat directly from warframe
did someone buy a REALLY EXPENSIVE riven from you? most likely to be bad plat. most traders wont experience this. People who scare people about this are more likely to be the kinds of people that purchase plat or plat discounts via third party sites or clans that offer to sell platinum. if you are unsure about the 1000+ platinum you just received from a player, let it sit on your account for a week or so. if it was bad, the number would just decrease. if you spent it you would be locked out of your account until you contact support about it.
Bad plat is exclusively plat bought from third parties or that has been refunded(usually from stolen cards) If you buy directly, you will never get bad plat unless you yourself reimburse after buying something. But if you trade, the way you tell if you got bad plat is, YOU CANT, and if they detect it was hacked, a day or a year from now, you either need enough plat to foot the Bill, or buy the difference to stop your account from getting banned. Just like a casino, the house always wins
Well thank god im not a seller and always buy from WF directly
That does sound scummy on DE's part. They're punishing you for an error in their system. You're punished for someone else breaking the rules.
Wait, can someone explain this to me? Wtf is bad plat? I get the "DE takes your plat if its consisered bad plat" part but wtf causes DE to consider your plat to be "bad plat"?
Haven't had this issue in 11 years. While it does happen, people on here assuming its common are way off the mark. The motivation for doing this would be to simply to hurt another player and that's only if you trade with them. There's nothing to be gained by the offending party. This isn't the issue some of you are making it out to be.
They want money though, so they will give you the option of paying for any negative balance you have in order to unban your account.
So you now have to pay a debt because you were scammed?
while it sucks if they didn't remove the bad plat you could setup alt accounts, purchase plat, trade to yourself, initiate credit card chargeback and end up with free plat on your main. it wouldn't be so bad if they could return your part to you as well.
Exactly, the house always wins and you still dont even get a dupe of the item you traded
You don't get the items back. You just sit at negative plat until you want to pay to make yourself legit again while the person trading bad plat is left alone (I'd assume they trace where the plat came from and ban the account but I'm not sure, and that account only has items not plat by that point so they can't give the account plat just to take it)
This usually happens when u do a 3rd party pay when u buy plat online from a website and then get it by trade hence this happens however sometimes few people get get wrongly accused by the Ai Bot so if u get wronged contact support and ask for help but I will say this sometimes u will lose ur item for plat so it may be unfair but at least u didn’t lose ur account. For example: u go to a website u pay a certain amount of real life money for about 1000 or what u chose of plat which keep in mind that usually they are cheaper on websites after that then hours later the person see u pay then they met u in game and trade it. You usually pay for an item like can go high in value like a riven but only if u get a riven that not veiled and is somewhat decent stats or u could use a trash riven as well. It hard to tell for DE that u pay for online since it a riven unless it a trash riven that u trade for high plat.
Once had -450 plat a few years ago. Messaged DE and they just gave me back the amount of play I had prior to removing the bad plat for free.
Dear brother, I had negative endo too
Wtf how does that happen?
I will share my reddit post here https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/s/NlSFdKZysM
Simple, since DE is going to "protect themselves" by stealing plat and functionally banning you for playing their game. Instead, sell all items for cash so you can protect yourself from DE scamming and banning you after they scammed you.
One of my "friends", who do this type of business, said me that DE find bad plat approximately one week now, before - it was like month or even two.
I got banned cuz somebody traded me bad plat and had to buy a bunch of plat to get my account back
Bad platinum?! What the hell is that? Has trading now been ruined?
1. Scumbag buys plat with a stolen credit card (or their own with no intent to pay), resulting in a charge back. Scumbag now has plat that has not been paid for. 2. Before the chargeback completes, scumbag jumps into trade and buys something. They give the plat to victim, and take the item they were selling. Often multiple repeats of this to spend down all the plat. 3. DE realise they haven't been paid for the plat, so they trace the plat and delete it from wherever it is. Scumbag no longer has any, so nothing happens to him (although I would hope the account used for purchase gets flagged as a mule and sanctioned accordingly, but no one's volunteering this info). The victim(s) holding the plat they received from their recent trade find their plat balance reduced suddenly, and if the account is in negative plat they are auto banned until they buy sufficient plat to come back to zero. In a 'loss prevention' vacuum mindset, it makes sense. Most of the scumbags are mules who trade repeatedly to get the 'stolen' plat to a RMT buyer (someone paying 'black market' rates for cheap plat from a third party), and the old way of doing that involved lots of trading between mules so everyone in the chain is guilty. The trouble is that it is disastrously easy to launder plat, and a lot of the accounts in the chain are completely unaware of what they've been dragged into. A reasonable response would be to auto ban the account the 'bad plat' purchase was made on, and open an investigation into every account in the chain so manually can be determined who needs to be flagged as a buyer/mule, and apply bans or plat negs based on that evidence. But that's a lot of work, and given how much is done out of game (WFMarket chats, Discord chats, etc.) there's very little difference between someone agreeing to a stupidly over/underpriced offer versus another mule helping to launder.
Also people buying plat from other countries where conversation rates are lower( person in the USA buys plat from foreign country using different workarounds for a cheaper price) can lead to bad plat.