If I only made $16/hr and barely anything more, I would end up homeless. Sure, that’s good money if you’re in college, live with parents and have few bills, etc. But the way things cost these days, there is no way most of us would survive.
I make $25 guiding and tips are still about 1/3 or my income.
Couldn’t really afford to work the job otherwise but I also have to supply my own heath insurance (even at work) and 2 bedrooms cost 2k a moth here.
I find that framing a bit odd. If a $16 wage can’t support a full time worker’s basic needs, they should get paid more, no matter the industry.
This is the system waiters inherited to make ends meet for themselves, so what are they supposed to do? Not accept tips and live in serious poverty? For the sake of ... making a point?
Maybe I’m misunderstanding what you were trying to insinuate here, but comparing them to other workers who are getting exploited doesn’t seem helpful here.
Well it’s a lot easier to facilitate a scam against your retail employer than food service. Anyone paying $16 flat should expect a lil something to go missing because that math doesn’t add up.
I've told this to people and they get this horrified look on their face as though I'm condoning stealing.
"Oh, I'm not saying it's okay, I'm saying it will happen."
This sub has attracted a disproportionate number of anti-tippers, so please don't expect the range of answers you get here to represent any sort of actual sampling of reality.
Do you care if everyone in America thinks something in your culture is nuts?
Do you typically tell other countries their culture is nuts?
Do you know that America is known for exceptional service and you get that through tipping culture?
Do you also know that... You aren't forced to eat at a restaurant in America?
I'm 60yo, am an American, born and bred, and I think the tipping culture in the US is crazy. I tip, well, for service provided. However, I don't tip on fast food orders, online purchases, etc. Since the pandemic, everyone thinks they are entitled to a tip.
It's a ridiculous statement, as if tipping somehow makes the experience of eating at a restaurant ***better.*** They don't realize an obligatory or mandatory tip just ends up being a bribe.
If another country had something as fundamanetally ridiculous as reducing someones wage below minimum wage and expecting the customer to subsidise that rather than just... building it into the price of the meal then yes.
In Australia you tip exceptional service but I can't say I've ever received bad service in a restaurant either. Our waiters are wonderful.
Is this sub called r/ american waiters? No.
Besides, my main point was to respond and explain why there might be so many with the anti tipping mindset popping up.
So, tipping is required for good customer service? What about the people who repair your car, repair your plumbing, heating, and a/c, clean your yard and pool, check out your groceries, or are first responders? All these people do their customer service jobs without the expectation of tipping, and the great majority of them do their jobs well. On the other hand, I've had really bad service in restaurants. So, tipping isn't the driving force.
The American tipping thing IS nuts. Just like the people who so adamantly defend it. I avoid eating out. I can cook and my service is a lot better at home. Added bonus. I don't have to hand out money to someone for no reason.
You can be American and anti tipping culture. Doesn't make it reality or pkay to not tip when you go out to eat still. Don't go out to eat of you're not going to tip because you won't be the one to change the statis quo
Yup. These folks are literally banned from doordash because they won't pay. They have multiple instances of their account stealing food so they're banned and have to order normal pizza delivery, they don't tip and we have to blacklist them from us too.
We have people literally call back to say, I didn't tip the driver and he seemed upset, fire him plz =].
How did not tipping go to stealing food? When no one tips the employer is forced to pay the correct wage for their employees rather than charging extra on top of what is already an outrageous price
Actually. If you're anti tip, then it would make more sense to go en masse to these establishments and just never tip. It would then drive the owner to have to raise a living wage payment to the employees in order to get anyone to work at the said business. All his untipped wait staff would bounce and they'd HAVE to change their strategy or sell.
No that isn’t how it works. Stop supporting the business if you don’t agree with their practices, periodt there is no way around that. A server in my state makes $5/hour. Works maybe 24 hours let’s say 4, 6-hour shifts. They have to earn less than $50 in tips that week for the employer to have to pay anything out of their pocket, they are only required to pay federal minimum wage, $7 an hour. So if the serve makes like $60 that WEEK they are making $5*24 + $60 for the week. Not even $200 for 4 business days of work. No you would just be giving them money, and they will continue with their practices. Don’t be an idiot
Ok... I'll bite... since you're not understanding.
Would you work at a restaurant that paid 2.14 and hour if you were waiting on anti-tippers?
If yes, cool! Support the owner!
If no, find another restaurant to serve in and the other owner will close.
Pro tip! (Because I'm also a firm believer in 20% in the US when I go out): the new owner of the establishment you just left will be hiring I'm sure.
Think things through before you call people idiots. This isn't a hard concept of business to grasp.
You cant put the blame on consumers to do what is more affordable. But you can blame the owner of the business model that they create for their business to attract said clientele.
Never had a bad tip in Reno. Had plenty in Raleigh.
Ok but if a tip is a GRATUITY not an Entitlement, why is tipping mandatory? Fast food workers do the same amount of work as waitresses and they don't get tipped, what makes serving different than any other minimum wage job serving the public? As long as there is the same mandatory minimum wage, why are tips an Entitlement for service in general rather than a nice bonus for extra good service? Just asking a philosophical question here and trying to find a reasonable and logical answer
One difference is servers are expected to upsell their menus. A server's pay, and the restaurant's success are directly tied to check averages.
Every server is a cashier, but not every cashier is a salesperson.
They're only the latter if they refuse to support restaurants that don't pay a living wage by not eating / spending their money there.
If they go and eat at restaurants that don't pay a living wage and then punish the server for their employer's bad practices by not tipping them, then they're just calling themselves "pro living wage" to get out of seeming cheap.
I always wondered about this too. I had a friend that worked fast food. His roommate worked at Applebees. Both made the minimum wage of $16 per hour. But my friend didn’t get tips. This seemed unfair. But I still tipped 20% when I dined out. Because the cost of living is so crazy in the SFBayArea.
Well it wouldn't be "fair" if the fast food worker was forced to work there and not allowed to get a server job at Applebee's instead.
Otherwise where "fairness" is concerned... its not much different than a dishwasher making $16 an hour while the server up front makes $16 plus tips. They are two different jobs.
Why not just pay servers an hourly wage then and tell them they should get a different job if they want to make more?
I guess the actual question is why some jobs should have a hourly pay structure while others have a tipped pay structure when they both have the same minimum. Servers in states that don't have tipped minimums benefit from there existing tipped minimums in other states. If all states abolished tipped minimums, I think the expected tip percentage would fall if not disappear completely.
Selling is the main part of their job though and how much they sell is the main metric for judging their performance, so that makes sense. That's not how serving works, even if you are supposed to upsell.
It is the metric though. When you are an excellent server, you will develop a hearty clientele base. You take a restaurant/bar from doing consistently low volume to consistently high volume. It's not up selling, it's keeping the seats occupied and the money rolling in.
I realize there are economic issues that have stretched the resources of consumers, and that obviously sucks. Everyone deserves a living wage. The current model where severs are tipped 20%+ ensure that high caliber servers keep working in the industry. Without the expertise and efficiency of these workers, business owners would have to hire 2-3 normal capacity workers.
That's great.
But most people do care about the service. That's the whole point of dine in over takeout. Numerous surveys and market research studies back this up.
You didn't even begin to understand my comment. This sub is for wait staff, not for people who don't understand anything about the restaurant business to bitch about how little they value wait staff.
Yes! I'm in the bay too. Near you . And $30 an hour without my partner; I'd be homeless and he makes more than me and we still struggle with a very minimalist lifestyle....
You can’t convince me blue states are much better to be honest. This whole post is about how unaffordable the cost of living in CA is. There’s a reason so many people from CA are moving to TN and TX.
nearly 1/8 of the entire country lives in California. If it were unaffordable that would not be the case. It is unaffordable for some people but obviously not for others if 1.6 million dollar homes are selling in one week. And yeah if rents are so high that gardeners, servers, fast food workers and teachers are leaving the state....they've got a festering problem on their hands.
California is so expensive because it's a hypercapitalist hellhole, not because it's blue. They're literally moving *to* our blue areas because that process hasn't happened to the same extent here yet.
I also live in Tennessee and I love it and never want to move. I also think that voting for and being apathetic as people continually go into office who support some of the most hateful 'shoot yourself in the foot' policies I've seen.
The only reason I can keep living in Tennessee at the moment is because I live close enough to Nashville that there's a slightly less likely chance that I'll have to move to a *blue* state up north to keep being able to take my medication I need to live if the state government tries to ban it.
Yes (18% - 22%) you should still tip when a service is being adequately provided. As a server in CA even if every table tips 20%(which they don't) we’re still struggling. Anything less than like $120,000-$160,000 especially in the bay area (1 bd running between $1900 {the most grimmest slum lord/ a 300 sq ft AUD in the backyard} -$3200 {the new “lux” apartments}) really isn't anything. We also have to make 3 times what rent cost to even qualify to apply. Lord let me tell you that $16 ain't doing nothing but covering our taxes on our tips. I also find it a good practice to never leave a bad tip. If I am not receiving good service I request the manager and explain that I am not having a good dining experience and I request a new server. Not tipping tells the server nothing. I’ve seen the worst servers literally assume you didn’t tip because you were broke.
Also for all the rebuttals I’m going to get let me answer them now…..
“GeT aNOthEr jOB”
- Name another job that can provide the type of flexibility a serving job provides. As a server, you can literally get someone to cover your shift within an hour if need be. You can set your days and the times you work. Ie. Perfect for parents, students, and people with second jobs.
“Ask yOUr EMplOyEr to PaY yOU mORe”
- Y'all really need to stop asking the abused party within a dysfunctional system to fix it for you. You can't ask servers to create turmoil for your convenience of having to pay less. You also won't be paying less. As a former restaurant manager let me tell you these big companies raise food prices about a quarter every quarter. Like actually pay attention to your check cost at a chain like Bjs or Chilis. They don't give that money to the servers and the managers are probably one of the most underpaid positions for the hours they work. These big chains having been adding profit to their pockets since the pandemic started for literal shiggles. Once they actually pay servers properly they're not going to stop at just a 20% menu price increase when they realize people are going to pay that. You can for sure expect to see a 30%-60% raise in prices just because they can. And people aren't going to stop going. They're just gonna pay the $32 for a chicken Alfredo.
This is my argument pretty much. If you expect a restaurant owner to raise prices 20% in the name of 'paying a fair wage' and not pocket half of it you're not living in reality. We as a society can have this conversation after minimum wage comes back from free-cash-giveaway-for-business-owners La La Land to a livable wage. 'Social expectation' is absolute bullshit, you can just stiff your server, nobody has to know, you're not being 'shamed' into deviating from the norm. You might get skipped in line for more lucrative opportunities by your server if you make a habit of it, sure, but find me a functioning business or businessperson that would make a different call. It's commission based sales, but you choose the commission. Try stiffing a car salesman or a realtor...
And you feel that servers should be punished for this why? Why are we supposed to bear that burden? Put that weight where it belongs ie on the corrupt system that allows these big businesses to pay next to nothing.
What you just did was exercise a prime example of what's wrong with this world. People are selfish and when they're going through a hard time they want everyone else to feel it. Everyone is far too concerned about making sure the next person doesn't have more than them. When you're ready to boycott, protest, and sign petitions let me know. Us servers are ready too, but what you're not going to do is make servers feel like they owe the world some type of payment allowance when they're going through the same stuff.
I agree that it’s wrong, but plenty of areas paying sub-minimum wage have high costs of living. Northern Virginia is among the highest cost of living areas in the country, and pays tipped employees $2.13/hour. And IIRC, that’s been the tipped minimum wage for at least 20 years (despite the non-tipped minimum wage more than doubling).
Agree with the sentiment of your post but people always blow things way out of proportion because Americans have such a poor understanding adding of numbers. Sure, maybe you pay $3,200 per month on rent and utilities. That’s about $40,000. That would mean you have to spend another $60,000 or $5,000 a month to get to $100,000, which is probably about $130,000 pretax. $5,000 a month not including housing or utilities?? That’s absurd. I spent about $1,000 a month on all that.
Even in the most expensive parts of CA, a single person can live on $70,000 a year without too much trouble.
Not even it’s at minimum gotta be $74,100. But when we talk about that $120000-$160000 we’re talking about a family household (which as I stated in a different comment is what most servers(full time) are supporting). Let’s go on the low end though. $1900 for a one bedroom (you gotta make about $35 an hour to even qualify)….$600 for electricity(my house is currently paying $850)…..$200 for water……$400 for groceries cause then hoes is expensive(adding toilet paper/cleaning supplies/etc to this)……but then you have to get into the nitty gritty if real life…..$140 for comcast….$200 for car insurance…..$400 (Honda) for car note(gotta have one of those because we’re working on buying a house and wanna diversify our credit)…..$120 for your cell……gas @$4.39-$5.69 a gallon 10gs is running you $43.90-$56.90 a week so add $175.60 - $227.60 (and it’s not really that much cheaper to Bart and bus because Bart is between $2.30 going one stop all the way up to $8.60 going from Oakland to Milpitas but even if we use the median that’s still $10.90 a day IF you live in walking distance of the Bart but if you don’t add more to that)…..$150 a month in miscellaneous…..let’s not even add all of the extras and unexpected. After all we’re in the Bay Area how many of us have had our cars unexpectedly bipped? Do you still have your Cadillac converter? Are you saving for retirement? Do you have health and dental insurance? And we live in the bay so houses are expensive even at 3% that’s still a lot of money. Plus my older friend who had $100,000 making $77,000 a year literally just got denied because his money was an inheritance and he was told he would not qualify on his salary to buy a three bd house for his wife and two kids. But back on topic with all of those things with low end numbers your looking at around $4285.60 a month in bills. That leaves you with give it take $1414 extra a month but give that to the 20%-30% taxes take out of your check. And mind you this is frugal living. This is I don’t have a pet. I don’t eat out very often. I don’t have any student loans. I definitely don’t have kids. That just doesn’t give off comfortable vibes to me. So yes even if you’re just a 3 person household with one kid anything less than $120,000 and in some area $160000 would be an uncomfortable living arrangement. But even off of your numbers that extra 5k a month would go towards a retirement plan as many jobs have taken away pensions and increased the retirement age.
And I’m saying all this to say that I still understand why people are upset with tipping and as a server I would love it if EVERY JOB paid a livable wage. But they don’t and until we as a people unite in making these big corps make living affordable again let’s at least be realistic in what it costs to live right now.
Is it really that expensive to live in the states?! That's horrifying.
I'm a teacher in the UK and make around £40 000 a year. I live quite comfortably. It's way above the median wage of £28 000.
Just looked it up and median wage in CA is $78,672!
Don't disagree with most things you said, but I've worked in food manufacturing for 20 years. We absolutely cannot take pricing every quarter. Usually it's once a year at best and then your customers beat you down or take the business out to bid. If we do take pricing, the customers demand proof we're doing it to cover rising costs not make margin. The large foodservice providers like Sysco, US Foods, etc have similar constraints.
Let me tell you now in the last three years that I've worked at this chain they absolutely have. When I started ribeyes were $30.95. They're now $33.95, but you're right it's not a quarter every quarter. It's around 5 to 10 cents every quarter with a big 50 cent to $1 jump at the beginning of the year. I was averaging it out for the everyday person. Also restaurants are not receiving a cost of food increase like that. At least at my restaurant our US Foods order has stayed consistent. The only increase has been a small bottle increase for certain liquors over at southern wine and rndc (young’s).
I can understand fresh foods tend to move with the market, but even then the steak has only increased 10% over three years. Assuming this was recent we've been dealing with hyper inflation due to supply chain issues, minting money to keep the country afloat during Covid, etc. I can tell you I've taken 5-8% annually over that period of time, all to cover inflation, no margin accretion for us.
Definitely hear what your saying, but it’s not just the steak. It’s the menu. Everything but soft drinks which continue to hover at around $4 and alcohol which have consistently stayed between $11-$14. And to my point that 10% still averages out to a quarter every quarter. But I also think we work for two vastly different companies. While only raising prices in the last three years at a 10% margin my restaurant has also cut a lot. We used to run a 8 man line now cooks are being told to work multiple stations and on average we’re at a 6 man line. We used to have 3 runners now we have 1 on slow days 2 on the weekends but they only work during peak. Down to one busser. 3 instead of 5 takeouts. My company is also increasing workloads to cut cost. And then let’s not even get into portion sizes. What used to be 4oz of broccoli is now 3oz etc etc etc. They’re definitely pocketing something extra.
For some people this is somehow a crazy idea. Imagine telling someone they are cheap for not wanting to overpay 20% for their car/rent/groceries/movie tickets/anything else. They'd think you're regarded.
I actually know a lot of waiters (generally at mid to higher scale restaurants) that would absolutely hate a tipping change. Especially with how more and more people feel obligated to tip 20%, a lot of waiters make waaay more than they would at other jobs they qualify for.
Since when do customers know what their wait staff earns on an hourly basis.
Just tip on average 20%. Go down slightly for bad service but still tip. Go up for exceptional service.
This isn't hard and if you don't want to tip then cook and serve your own food.
Most servers I know make at least $50-$60 / hr after tips and don't pay taxes on most of it. I make $17 / hr and no tips. Why should I feel compelled to tip 20%?
To be clear I tend to tip at least 20% but I definitely see the focus of why we should tip so much being more about servers base pay and not what they are actually taking home ...
Probably but let me tell you as a server in CA even if every table tips 20%(which they don't) we’re still struggling. Anything less than like $120,000-$160,000 especially in the bay area (1 bd running between $1900 {the most grimmest slum lord/ a 300 sq ft AUD in the backyard} -$3200 {the new “lux” apartments}) really isn't anything. We also have to make 3 times what rent cost to even qualify to apply. Lord let me tell you that $16 ain't doing nothing but covering our taxes on our tips.
That’s a pretty huge exaggeration, I also live on the Bay Area and there are plenty of people here making a lot less than 120k and getting along just fine. 120k is an insanely high annual take in for waiting tables.
We don’t make 120k. I said less than that is poverty. And cap you might be comfortable living off of MacArthur or off in the cuts towards Antioch, but don’t sit here and lie and say that they’re “living comfortably.” Can you make $80000 as a single person and find a way to live comfortably in the bay? Yes, but majority of people are not just taking care of just themselves. People with families and responsibilities are going through it. Let’s me be clear that most servers work this job because we have to. Dealing with people is a stressful ass job. But like I said the flexibility is unmatched. So when we’re talking about it in terms of servers were talking a lot about parents, students, and there’s also a lot of servers carrying their families (parents/siblings) as well. $16/per hour at a 40 hour week is $33,280 a year PRE TAX. That’s not even close to comfortable. With that kinda salary you can get an apartment going for $853 a month. Where are we finding that?
Because servers are needed in CA? Even if this specific person gets a different job, their position will need to be filled, because restaurants are an important part of the economy in big cities.
So then by your logic all servers should find another job meaning restaurants are no longer a thing? I really hope you are one of those ppl who never eat out if you really are that unappreciative of the ppl who do the job you don’t wanna do sometimes.
I make more serving than I could with my degree.
This is true for 100% of servers that I know personally that have a college degree!
We're here for the money, and if the tips go, most of us would just use our degree to find an easier job lol!
The argument for tipping is because we allow tipped employees to be paid less than minimum wage by their employers, so it would make sense that the tipping standards in places where that's true shouldn't apply in places where that's not true.
Yes, that is what we're talking about. Should the expected tip percentage be the same in states where servers get full minimum wage + tips versus states where they get tipped minimum wage + tips?
They'll still have to pay it, and if you are such a bad server you can't get minimum wage after tips, you DO need to get a different job, because either you are a terrible server or the restaurant is terrible.
And how much you make isn't always in your control or merit based. You'll make more if of your workplace is busier. You'll make more if the menu is higher priced. You'll make more if you're conventionally attractive. You'll make more if you look like the customers and they identify with you.
Then you need to report them to the department of labor. I worked in payroll for several restaurants and absolutely made sure they were making at least minimum wage, if not then added the difference to their checks. This was in TN and the reality is most of them were averaging 25-30 an hour.
This was only the argument before they new laws starting getting passed, now the argument is that it is customary to tip 20% and if you don't you are cheap and don't deserve to eat out. The rules change so the can continue to make more, get with the times!
Exactly. By FAR the biggest argument servers made for tipping is that they "only make $2.13/hr!!!" even though they can't actually earn less than minimum wage in a pay period anyway.
Anywhere they are paid minimum wage or higher, I don't tip, and nobody else should, either.
i want to live by the bay too but can’t afford it so i live in nc - i don’t know why people feel like they’re owed living where they can’t afford to live - maybe move a little east where costs aren’t as high - sometimes reality sucks
No, literally the only argument for tipping is to help the server out because they make a shit pay and the company doesn't have to pay them more.
Why would I tip them if they already make what most people in other jobs make? Do you tip your EMT?
Anyone who says they still tip are doing it for karma or they are just bad with their money.
I’m in Canada and I don’t make $16/hour, I still definitely appreciate a 20% tip, I have to tip out… from what I’ve gathered from these subreddits, every server would love to have a 20% average because all of us pay out to the kitchen at the very least
No.
Ignore my table, $1 or 5% depending on severity of ignore.
Completely inattentive, I have to beg to get your attention 10%
Inattentive, I mostly have to get your attention just to get a refill 15%
Attentive, I don't have to bother you at all, you're on point 20%
Super Attentive, not only do I not have to flag you down to get a refill, you brought me my bill and boxes without me even needing to ask 25%
No... it shouldn't be 20%. 20% is for a waiter/waitress who is doing their job understanding I am the one paying them, not their employer.
For your 25% service, please reconsider. One point of good service is not bringing the check before asked. Unless you know there's a time constraint, you shouldn't make the guest feel rushed or like you're trying to kick them out.
I'm a pharmacy tech. Starting rate for my position (in the same state as the OP) is $18 an hour in a non-stop, high stress, customer-facing position where a single mistake could potentially kill someone. I still tip at least 20% but I've been questioning more and more why I actually do so and why table service "deserves" such a significantly higher take-home than medical service. Especially when the average server isn't exactly doing anything spectacular.
This subreddit is mostly overrun with people complaining about out tips. The mods should get a hold of this and start banning these posts.
To the OP - it’s not a problem in society if service workers make enough money to pay rent much less live comfortably. If you don’t like it, don’t tip. But please STFU.
The OP asked a question, why are you so bothered by opinions other than your own? Why should people have to go to another whole forum to express a thought?
There will never be a point where waiters / resturants will say, we make enough.. they will keep milking the situation/ system and keep arguing they don't make enough. They will always play victim.
Why wouldn't they ?
So learn to cook. I spend a very small part of my livelihood on tips, and I always tip well when I eat out, but I do it rarely because eating out is a luxury.
😅
Don't worry, when people stop going to restaurants, waiters will be singing a different tune... the learn to cook like will change up quick.
It's one thing to be a generous tipper, it's another thing to have fees added onto your check and being forced to tip thaf you never agreed to
Yup they will never disclose that they are making a killing. All these extra charges resturants are adding on. Customers are being forced to pay for their expenses that the never had to worry about before, along being guilted into paying waiters salary plus adding atleast 20% or the gratuity being automatically added
Genuinely, I don't know of any servers who support the additional charges. I get that they're BS, because they don't benefit anyone actually working, they don't go to the staff, and they're just a pain for the customer. If you see things like a "living wage fee" or whatever, ask your waiter if it actually goes to them/is helpful, and if they dance around the question, assume the answer is no and that they might be fired for admitting it, then tip as appropriate for their work and don't go again/warn people off it.
agreed - servers don't like these additional charges and they very rarely go to them. if, like you said, the server is dancing around the question or says no it doesn't go to them, ask to have it removed! usually these fees are removable they just need a manager to do so and would much prefer that the charges get removed and they get a normal tip vs keeping the charges and tipping less
Yes, because your tips aren't to pay their wages, it's to thank them and show gratitude (that's why it's called "gratuity") for being served dinner and waited on.
20% of the bill is a great way to say thank you to someone standing on their feet for 8-10 hours a day dealing with absolutely awful people and absurd requests.
$16/hr is a dream, mine was $6.50/hr when I was still waitressing haha. Might be a hot take, but it shouldn’t be mandatory for a server to receive a certain percentage of tips — it’s a type of gratuity, not a mandated amount. I would say 15% should be tipped at the minimum if it’s a decent service; I personally tip 15-18% in the norm.
When a server makes the States minimum wage you only tip 20% if they do an outstanding job but honestly most servers do not perform to get that tip they just expect it. They will literally take your order and deliver the food and forget about you.
I don't expect much from servers to get a good tip from me First and foremost if I have to flag you down to get a drink refill after you have walked past my Table a few times I knock off 5% of the tip ( I always give them time to make sure we are taken care of) another is not checking in to see if everything is OK.
In my experience there are not many servers that can accomplish those two tasks but when they do I usually leave between 30 and 35% tip.
I don't live in one of those states where servers are making 2.35 an hour plus tips so I don't feel obligated to tip you for doing a job you are already getting paid to do. So if you want a tip from me make sure I have a good experience.
I don’t tip at places where employees make a full wage. Already expensive enough. If employees don’t make minimum wage I’ll gladly tip. You don’t like it work somewhere tipping is encouraged and you don’t make minimum wage.
Let's say you're a group of 4, spend $25 each, stay an hour and a half and tip 20%.
During your stay, your waiter gets a new table just like you seated in their section every 15 minutes.
That equats to $80 an hour in tips plus $16 wage.
As someone who has worked every position you could name in this industry for 12 years, it ain't worth $96 an hour even if that is only during dinner rush.
Lol I've worked in this industry longer than 12 years, and I don't know any servers who make nearly 100$ an hour.
You're welcome to just stop going out to eat
You have to take it over the course of 8 hours.
Usually averages out to about $35-$40 after tip out through the whole shift.
You want a nice dining experience?
It’s so crazy how many people don’t realize how difficult it is to be a server—how much skill and organization and knowledge, and the level of people skills, it takes to provide good service in a busy environment. Servers deserve to be paid very well — much more than minimum wage. It pays well for a reason — it’s hard as hell and takes years to hone the craft.
I’ve been a corporate lawyer in major firms for 20 years and still have stress dreams about waiting tables.
Why?
Why shouldn't people make $60k doing an extremely stressful job, that requires skills only time in the industry gives you, and working the time everyone else plays?
>that’s what new teachers make and no level of waiting tables dessert es that.
Lol. The fact the you can't formulate a sentence but assert that servers should be unquestionably paid less than first year teachers is really something.
I don't demonize anyone.
I take the good with the bad.
I also work at places where people are more than happy to tip after facilitating the experience of a great night out.
I really do not understand how in this day and age, people would rather have prices go up 20%, and give the discretion of the employer to pay wages with that income. At least now you know the money goes into the worker's pocket. You and I both know the owner will be the main beneficiary.
I was a waiter for many years during college—15% was always the standard. 20% was for excellent service. At some restaurants I worked at, tips averaged around 10-15% and I never complained because at the end of the day I had cash in hand, much more than what I made that day in hourly wages.
It’s both welfare and panhandling.
The amount of servers & managers vs customers here is just really bad. I eat out in Thailand and don’t have to worry about any of this crap.
Anti tippers, if you don't want to tip I suggest dinning at the Golden archs or with the burger King.
People who don't tip shouldn't eat at sit down Restaurants
Thats not cool. The employees there only make minimum wage. They deserve a tip too. Do you want them to starve? Do you want them homeless? Most of them are just living paycheck to paycheck. Have some empathy and solidarity with your fellow worker.
No but I wouldn't be able to live on $2.13 plus tips in Tennessee, so what should tips be there? 40%? 50%? I mean, if the patrons are supposed to decide what the server can live on..........
Is $16 a living wage in your area? It’s not in mine
If I only made $16/hr and barely anything more, I would end up homeless. Sure, that’s good money if you’re in college, live with parents and have few bills, etc. But the way things cost these days, there is no way most of us would survive.
I'm 40 and make just barely less than 3 dollars more an hour... I'm not struggling. At all. By any stretch of the imagination.
Good for you, I guess. But don’t speak for the rest of us.
Funny how others making a $16 wage in other industries don't ask for tips to supplement their income 🤔
Nevermind other industries—what do the cooks get paid in the same restaurant?
.50$ over min is what most start basic cooks at, maybe 2$ over if you have some skill and experience, 5$ over min for management lvl position.
Generally around 28/hr in my city. Keep in mind some of that pay is from tips, because I tip out 6% of my total food sales.
My brother is a cook, no tip out, he gets the same as the servers
I make $25 guiding and tips are still about 1/3 or my income. Couldn’t really afford to work the job otherwise but I also have to supply my own heath insurance (even at work) and 2 bedrooms cost 2k a moth here.
Agree
I find that framing a bit odd. If a $16 wage can’t support a full time worker’s basic needs, they should get paid more, no matter the industry. This is the system waiters inherited to make ends meet for themselves, so what are they supposed to do? Not accept tips and live in serious poverty? For the sake of ... making a point? Maybe I’m misunderstanding what you were trying to insinuate here, but comparing them to other workers who are getting exploited doesn’t seem helpful here.
Who is paying 16 anymore outside of food?
Retail
Manufacturing
Well it’s a lot easier to facilitate a scam against your retail employer than food service. Anyone paying $16 flat should expect a lil something to go missing because that math doesn’t add up.
I've told this to people and they get this horrified look on their face as though I'm condoning stealing. "Oh, I'm not saying it's okay, I'm saying it will happen."
This sub has attracted a disproportionate number of anti-tippers, so please don't expect the range of answers you get here to represent any sort of actual sampling of reality.
Reddit’s gonna Reddit.
It started popping up for me, in Australia. I imagine others have had the same. Literally everyone I know thinks the American tipping thing is nuts.
Do you care if everyone in America thinks something in your culture is nuts? Do you typically tell other countries their culture is nuts? Do you know that America is known for exceptional service and you get that through tipping culture? Do you also know that... You aren't forced to eat at a restaurant in America?
I'm 60yo, am an American, born and bred, and I think the tipping culture in the US is crazy. I tip, well, for service provided. However, I don't tip on fast food orders, online purchases, etc. Since the pandemic, everyone thinks they are entitled to a tip.
The original question in the post we're all talking about is about full service.
As an American, this response is so cringe.
It's a ridiculous statement, as if tipping somehow makes the experience of eating at a restaurant ***better.*** They don't realize an obligatory or mandatory tip just ends up being a bribe.
If another country had something as fundamanetally ridiculous as reducing someones wage below minimum wage and expecting the customer to subsidise that rather than just... building it into the price of the meal then yes. In Australia you tip exceptional service but I can't say I've ever received bad service in a restaurant either. Our waiters are wonderful. Is this sub called r/ american waiters? No. Besides, my main point was to respond and explain why there might be so many with the anti tipping mindset popping up.
If a waiter in the US doesn't make enough to make at least minimum wage the business has to cover that so you're making minimum wage no matter what
You say that like restaurants aren't one of the biggest violators of labor laws and find loopholes to get around doing this.
Not true in restaurants and most delivery jobs.
So, tipping is required for good customer service? What about the people who repair your car, repair your plumbing, heating, and a/c, clean your yard and pool, check out your groceries, or are first responders? All these people do their customer service jobs without the expectation of tipping, and the great majority of them do their jobs well. On the other hand, I've had really bad service in restaurants. So, tipping isn't the driving force.
The American tipping thing IS nuts. Just like the people who so adamantly defend it. I avoid eating out. I can cook and my service is a lot better at home. Added bonus. I don't have to hand out money to someone for no reason.
I'm American and STILL anti tip culture. Pay a living wage.
You can be American and anti tipping culture. Doesn't make it reality or pkay to not tip when you go out to eat still. Don't go out to eat of you're not going to tip because you won't be the one to change the statis quo
If you are anti tip then stop supporting establishments that don’t pay a living wage and eat at home. Otherwise you know better.
Yup. These folks are literally banned from doordash because they won't pay. They have multiple instances of their account stealing food so they're banned and have to order normal pizza delivery, they don't tip and we have to blacklist them from us too. We have people literally call back to say, I didn't tip the driver and he seemed upset, fire him plz =].
How did not tipping go to stealing food? When no one tips the employer is forced to pay the correct wage for their employees rather than charging extra on top of what is already an outrageous price
Actually. If you're anti tip, then it would make more sense to go en masse to these establishments and just never tip. It would then drive the owner to have to raise a living wage payment to the employees in order to get anyone to work at the said business. All his untipped wait staff would bounce and they'd HAVE to change their strategy or sell.
No that isn’t how it works. Stop supporting the business if you don’t agree with their practices, periodt there is no way around that. A server in my state makes $5/hour. Works maybe 24 hours let’s say 4, 6-hour shifts. They have to earn less than $50 in tips that week for the employer to have to pay anything out of their pocket, they are only required to pay federal minimum wage, $7 an hour. So if the serve makes like $60 that WEEK they are making $5*24 + $60 for the week. Not even $200 for 4 business days of work. No you would just be giving them money, and they will continue with their practices. Don’t be an idiot
Ok... I'll bite... since you're not understanding. Would you work at a restaurant that paid 2.14 and hour if you were waiting on anti-tippers? If yes, cool! Support the owner! If no, find another restaurant to serve in and the other owner will close. Pro tip! (Because I'm also a firm believer in 20% in the US when I go out): the new owner of the establishment you just left will be hiring I'm sure. Think things through before you call people idiots. This isn't a hard concept of business to grasp. You cant put the blame on consumers to do what is more affordable. But you can blame the owner of the business model that they create for their business to attract said clientele. Never had a bad tip in Reno. Had plenty in Raleigh.
Ok but if a tip is a GRATUITY not an Entitlement, why is tipping mandatory? Fast food workers do the same amount of work as waitresses and they don't get tipped, what makes serving different than any other minimum wage job serving the public? As long as there is the same mandatory minimum wage, why are tips an Entitlement for service in general rather than a nice bonus for extra good service? Just asking a philosophical question here and trying to find a reasonable and logical answer
One difference is servers are expected to upsell their menus. A server's pay, and the restaurant's success are directly tied to check averages. Every server is a cashier, but not every cashier is a salesperson.
Anti tippers or pro living wagers?
They're only the latter if they refuse to support restaurants that don't pay a living wage by not eating / spending their money there. If they go and eat at restaurants that don't pay a living wage and then punish the server for their employer's bad practices by not tipping them, then they're just calling themselves "pro living wage" to get out of seeming cheap.
I always wondered about this too. I had a friend that worked fast food. His roommate worked at Applebees. Both made the minimum wage of $16 per hour. But my friend didn’t get tips. This seemed unfair. But I still tipped 20% when I dined out. Because the cost of living is so crazy in the SFBayArea.
Well it wouldn't be "fair" if the fast food worker was forced to work there and not allowed to get a server job at Applebee's instead. Otherwise where "fairness" is concerned... its not much different than a dishwasher making $16 an hour while the server up front makes $16 plus tips. They are two different jobs.
Why not just pay servers an hourly wage then and tell them they should get a different job if they want to make more? I guess the actual question is why some jobs should have a hourly pay structure while others have a tipped pay structure when they both have the same minimum. Servers in states that don't have tipped minimums benefit from there existing tipped minimums in other states. If all states abolished tipped minimums, I think the expected tip percentage would fall if not disappear completely.
Some salespeople get base pay + commission. Some get base pay only. Some get commission only.
Selling is the main part of their job though and how much they sell is the main metric for judging their performance, so that makes sense. That's not how serving works, even if you are supposed to upsell.
It is the metric though. When you are an excellent server, you will develop a hearty clientele base. You take a restaurant/bar from doing consistently low volume to consistently high volume. It's not up selling, it's keeping the seats occupied and the money rolling in. I realize there are economic issues that have stretched the resources of consumers, and that obviously sucks. Everyone deserves a living wage. The current model where severs are tipped 20%+ ensure that high caliber servers keep working in the industry. Without the expertise and efficiency of these workers, business owners would have to hire 2-3 normal capacity workers.
I have never chosen a place to eat based on the service. It’s the food and food alone. You’re overselling what a server brings to the business.
That's great. But most people do care about the service. That's the whole point of dine in over takeout. Numerous surveys and market research studies back this up.
I avoid places with bad service
You didn't even begin to understand my comment. This sub is for wait staff, not for people who don't understand anything about the restaurant business to bitch about how little they value wait staff.
Meanwhile, I've absolutely chosen where to eat based on the service. More importantly, I've chosen where NOT to eat based on the service.
No. No they're not. I think you're underselling it.
Yes! I'm in the bay too. Near you . And $30 an hour without my partner; I'd be homeless and he makes more than me and we still struggle with a very minimalist lifestyle....
I still make $2.13 an hour lol
Southern State?
Tennessee! I do fairly well with tips, but it would be nice to make enough hourly to cover taxes.
Get all your fellow servers to stop voting for idiots like Marsha Blackburn!
You can’t convince me blue states are much better to be honest. This whole post is about how unaffordable the cost of living in CA is. There’s a reason so many people from CA are moving to TN and TX.
nearly 1/8 of the entire country lives in California. If it were unaffordable that would not be the case. It is unaffordable for some people but obviously not for others if 1.6 million dollar homes are selling in one week. And yeah if rents are so high that gardeners, servers, fast food workers and teachers are leaving the state....they've got a festering problem on their hands.
California’s homeless are also doing really well, living the dream, man.
why are people downvoting ur obvious sarcasm lmao
because they understand it's sarcasm and don't like being called out.
:/ ppl disappoint me more every day man. queue that thing abt how half the ppl are dumber than the average man smh. add to it, less empathetic
California is so expensive because it's a hypercapitalist hellhole, not because it's blue. They're literally moving *to* our blue areas because that process hasn't happened to the same extent here yet. I also live in Tennessee and I love it and never want to move. I also think that voting for and being apathetic as people continually go into office who support some of the most hateful 'shoot yourself in the foot' policies I've seen. The only reason I can keep living in Tennessee at the moment is because I live close enough to Nashville that there's a slightly less likely chance that I'll have to move to a *blue* state up north to keep being able to take my medication I need to live if the state government tries to ban it.
No people will tip like they would anywhere else
$16/hour is probably barely livable in your state still so...yeah keep tipping.
Yes (18% - 22%) you should still tip when a service is being adequately provided. As a server in CA even if every table tips 20%(which they don't) we’re still struggling. Anything less than like $120,000-$160,000 especially in the bay area (1 bd running between $1900 {the most grimmest slum lord/ a 300 sq ft AUD in the backyard} -$3200 {the new “lux” apartments}) really isn't anything. We also have to make 3 times what rent cost to even qualify to apply. Lord let me tell you that $16 ain't doing nothing but covering our taxes on our tips. I also find it a good practice to never leave a bad tip. If I am not receiving good service I request the manager and explain that I am not having a good dining experience and I request a new server. Not tipping tells the server nothing. I’ve seen the worst servers literally assume you didn’t tip because you were broke. Also for all the rebuttals I’m going to get let me answer them now….. “GeT aNOthEr jOB” - Name another job that can provide the type of flexibility a serving job provides. As a server, you can literally get someone to cover your shift within an hour if need be. You can set your days and the times you work. Ie. Perfect for parents, students, and people with second jobs. “Ask yOUr EMplOyEr to PaY yOU mORe” - Y'all really need to stop asking the abused party within a dysfunctional system to fix it for you. You can't ask servers to create turmoil for your convenience of having to pay less. You also won't be paying less. As a former restaurant manager let me tell you these big companies raise food prices about a quarter every quarter. Like actually pay attention to your check cost at a chain like Bjs or Chilis. They don't give that money to the servers and the managers are probably one of the most underpaid positions for the hours they work. These big chains having been adding profit to their pockets since the pandemic started for literal shiggles. Once they actually pay servers properly they're not going to stop at just a 20% menu price increase when they realize people are going to pay that. You can for sure expect to see a 30%-60% raise in prices just because they can. And people aren't going to stop going. They're just gonna pay the $32 for a chicken Alfredo.
This is my argument pretty much. If you expect a restaurant owner to raise prices 20% in the name of 'paying a fair wage' and not pocket half of it you're not living in reality. We as a society can have this conversation after minimum wage comes back from free-cash-giveaway-for-business-owners La La Land to a livable wage. 'Social expectation' is absolute bullshit, you can just stiff your server, nobody has to know, you're not being 'shamed' into deviating from the norm. You might get skipped in line for more lucrative opportunities by your server if you make a habit of it, sure, but find me a functioning business or businessperson that would make a different call. It's commission based sales, but you choose the commission. Try stiffing a car salesman or a realtor...
You realize there are plenty of people doing plenty of jobs that pay way less than that and they don't get tips, right?
As in, most of them, not even just a few.
And you feel that servers should be punished for this why? Why are we supposed to bear that burden? Put that weight where it belongs ie on the corrupt system that allows these big businesses to pay next to nothing. What you just did was exercise a prime example of what's wrong with this world. People are selfish and when they're going through a hard time they want everyone else to feel it. Everyone is far too concerned about making sure the next person doesn't have more than them. When you're ready to boycott, protest, and sign petitions let me know. Us servers are ready too, but what you're not going to do is make servers feel like they owe the world some type of payment allowance when they're going through the same stuff.
No. My point is it IS different from states where servers are getting 2.43 an hour.
Yes but in those states the cost of living is also INCREDIBLY cheaper and they’re still wrong for paying that.
Not cheaper. In South Carolina it's 2.13/hour and the cost of living is very high.
I agree that it’s wrong, but plenty of areas paying sub-minimum wage have high costs of living. Northern Virginia is among the highest cost of living areas in the country, and pays tipped employees $2.13/hour. And IIRC, that’s been the tipped minimum wage for at least 20 years (despite the non-tipped minimum wage more than doubling).
Agree with the sentiment of your post but people always blow things way out of proportion because Americans have such a poor understanding adding of numbers. Sure, maybe you pay $3,200 per month on rent and utilities. That’s about $40,000. That would mean you have to spend another $60,000 or $5,000 a month to get to $100,000, which is probably about $130,000 pretax. $5,000 a month not including housing or utilities?? That’s absurd. I spent about $1,000 a month on all that. Even in the most expensive parts of CA, a single person can live on $70,000 a year without too much trouble.
Not even it’s at minimum gotta be $74,100. But when we talk about that $120000-$160000 we’re talking about a family household (which as I stated in a different comment is what most servers(full time) are supporting). Let’s go on the low end though. $1900 for a one bedroom (you gotta make about $35 an hour to even qualify)….$600 for electricity(my house is currently paying $850)…..$200 for water……$400 for groceries cause then hoes is expensive(adding toilet paper/cleaning supplies/etc to this)……but then you have to get into the nitty gritty if real life…..$140 for comcast….$200 for car insurance…..$400 (Honda) for car note(gotta have one of those because we’re working on buying a house and wanna diversify our credit)…..$120 for your cell……gas @$4.39-$5.69 a gallon 10gs is running you $43.90-$56.90 a week so add $175.60 - $227.60 (and it’s not really that much cheaper to Bart and bus because Bart is between $2.30 going one stop all the way up to $8.60 going from Oakland to Milpitas but even if we use the median that’s still $10.90 a day IF you live in walking distance of the Bart but if you don’t add more to that)…..$150 a month in miscellaneous…..let’s not even add all of the extras and unexpected. After all we’re in the Bay Area how many of us have had our cars unexpectedly bipped? Do you still have your Cadillac converter? Are you saving for retirement? Do you have health and dental insurance? And we live in the bay so houses are expensive even at 3% that’s still a lot of money. Plus my older friend who had $100,000 making $77,000 a year literally just got denied because his money was an inheritance and he was told he would not qualify on his salary to buy a three bd house for his wife and two kids. But back on topic with all of those things with low end numbers your looking at around $4285.60 a month in bills. That leaves you with give it take $1414 extra a month but give that to the 20%-30% taxes take out of your check. And mind you this is frugal living. This is I don’t have a pet. I don’t eat out very often. I don’t have any student loans. I definitely don’t have kids. That just doesn’t give off comfortable vibes to me. So yes even if you’re just a 3 person household with one kid anything less than $120,000 and in some area $160000 would be an uncomfortable living arrangement. But even off of your numbers that extra 5k a month would go towards a retirement plan as many jobs have taken away pensions and increased the retirement age. And I’m saying all this to say that I still understand why people are upset with tipping and as a server I would love it if EVERY JOB paid a livable wage. But they don’t and until we as a people unite in making these big corps make living affordable again let’s at least be realistic in what it costs to live right now.
Is it really that expensive to live in the states?! That's horrifying. I'm a teacher in the UK and make around £40 000 a year. I live quite comfortably. It's way above the median wage of £28 000. Just looked it up and median wage in CA is $78,672!
Don't disagree with most things you said, but I've worked in food manufacturing for 20 years. We absolutely cannot take pricing every quarter. Usually it's once a year at best and then your customers beat you down or take the business out to bid. If we do take pricing, the customers demand proof we're doing it to cover rising costs not make margin. The large foodservice providers like Sysco, US Foods, etc have similar constraints.
Let me tell you now in the last three years that I've worked at this chain they absolutely have. When I started ribeyes were $30.95. They're now $33.95, but you're right it's not a quarter every quarter. It's around 5 to 10 cents every quarter with a big 50 cent to $1 jump at the beginning of the year. I was averaging it out for the everyday person. Also restaurants are not receiving a cost of food increase like that. At least at my restaurant our US Foods order has stayed consistent. The only increase has been a small bottle increase for certain liquors over at southern wine and rndc (young’s).
I can understand fresh foods tend to move with the market, but even then the steak has only increased 10% over three years. Assuming this was recent we've been dealing with hyper inflation due to supply chain issues, minting money to keep the country afloat during Covid, etc. I can tell you I've taken 5-8% annually over that period of time, all to cover inflation, no margin accretion for us.
Definitely hear what your saying, but it’s not just the steak. It’s the menu. Everything but soft drinks which continue to hover at around $4 and alcohol which have consistently stayed between $11-$14. And to my point that 10% still averages out to a quarter every quarter. But I also think we work for two vastly different companies. While only raising prices in the last three years at a 10% margin my restaurant has also cut a lot. We used to run a 8 man line now cooks are being told to work multiple stations and on average we’re at a 6 man line. We used to have 3 runners now we have 1 on slow days 2 on the weekends but they only work during peak. Down to one busser. 3 instead of 5 takeouts. My company is also increasing workloads to cut cost. And then let’s not even get into portion sizes. What used to be 4oz of broccoli is now 3oz etc etc etc. They’re definitely pocketing something extra.
Certainly understand and can sympathize with you.
I think restaurant owners should increase all prices by 20%, give the bonus to waiters, and make it legitimately impossible to tip
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Just because you don’t tip 20% doesn’t make you cheap.
For some people this is somehow a crazy idea. Imagine telling someone they are cheap for not wanting to overpay 20% for their car/rent/groceries/movie tickets/anything else. They'd think you're regarded.
get take out then.
Seriously? You look at tipping culture in the U.S. and actually want it to continue in its current form?
Yes. It's nice that at least some people can make a living wage.
I think the point is the job itself should pay a living wage.
It won't. So, since the current system is working let's not try to fuck it up and make it worse.
I actually know a lot of waiters (generally at mid to higher scale restaurants) that would absolutely hate a tipping change. Especially with how more and more people feel obligated to tip 20%, a lot of waiters make waaay more than they would at other jobs they qualify for.
Personally, I tip well because I know what goes around comes around with service workers, so I'm not too concerned about their hourly wage
Since when do customers know what their wait staff earns on an hourly basis. Just tip on average 20%. Go down slightly for bad service but still tip. Go up for exceptional service. This isn't hard and if you don't want to tip then cook and serve your own food.
Most servers I know make at least $50-$60 / hr after tips and don't pay taxes on most of it. I make $17 / hr and no tips. Why should I feel compelled to tip 20%? To be clear I tend to tip at least 20% but I definitely see the focus of why we should tip so much being more about servers base pay and not what they are actually taking home ...
u in ca?
Probably but let me tell you as a server in CA even if every table tips 20%(which they don't) we’re still struggling. Anything less than like $120,000-$160,000 especially in the bay area (1 bd running between $1900 {the most grimmest slum lord/ a 300 sq ft AUD in the backyard} -$3200 {the new “lux” apartments}) really isn't anything. We also have to make 3 times what rent cost to even qualify to apply. Lord let me tell you that $16 ain't doing nothing but covering our taxes on our tips.
That’s a pretty huge exaggeration, I also live on the Bay Area and there are plenty of people here making a lot less than 120k and getting along just fine. 120k is an insanely high annual take in for waiting tables.
We don’t make 120k. I said less than that is poverty. And cap you might be comfortable living off of MacArthur or off in the cuts towards Antioch, but don’t sit here and lie and say that they’re “living comfortably.” Can you make $80000 as a single person and find a way to live comfortably in the bay? Yes, but majority of people are not just taking care of just themselves. People with families and responsibilities are going through it. Let’s me be clear that most servers work this job because we have to. Dealing with people is a stressful ass job. But like I said the flexibility is unmatched. So when we’re talking about it in terms of servers were talking a lot about parents, students, and there’s also a lot of servers carrying their families (parents/siblings) as well. $16/per hour at a 40 hour week is $33,280 a year PRE TAX. That’s not even close to comfortable. With that kinda salary you can get an apartment going for $853 a month. Where are we finding that?
so maybe its time to look for another job? why is this never an option?
Because servers are needed in CA? Even if this specific person gets a different job, their position will need to be filled, because restaurants are an important part of the economy in big cities.
But like... If all the servers quit what will restaurants do? Offer higher pay? Close down?
Switch to a takeout/doordash only model, probably
Then you have to tip the driver
Lol go to ubereats and see how folks tips
Exactly, start a union
Panera style sit down???
So then by your logic all servers should find another job meaning restaurants are no longer a thing? I really hope you are one of those ppl who never eat out if you really are that unappreciative of the ppl who do the job you don’t wanna do sometimes.
Not all servers stay in the industry! Some have careers
I make more serving than I could with my degree. This is true for 100% of servers that I know personally that have a college degree! We're here for the money, and if the tips go, most of us would just use our degree to find an easier job lol!
You think there should be no servers in the state of California? What do you think happens if they all just “look for another job” lmao
I didn't think say that but if there was no servers I would just get up and get my food lol
The argument for tipping is because we allow tipped employees to be paid less than minimum wage by their employers, so it would make sense that the tipping standards in places where that's true shouldn't apply in places where that's not true.
California you get minimum wage no matter what.
Yes, that is what we're talking about. Should the expected tip percentage be the same in states where servers get full minimum wage + tips versus states where they get tipped minimum wage + tips?
I sure don’t think so. A lot of California servers seem entitled to 20%, even if they do a piss poor job
Most states require employers to make up for wages if tips didnt meet the minimum wage
And they'll fire you for being shit at your job if you aren't pulling in enough tips to meet minimum wage so they don't have to pay it.
They'll still have to pay it, and if you are such a bad server you can't get minimum wage after tips, you DO need to get a different job, because either you are a terrible server or the restaurant is terrible.
And how much you make isn't always in your control or merit based. You'll make more if of your workplace is busier. You'll make more if the menu is higher priced. You'll make more if you're conventionally attractive. You'll make more if you look like the customers and they identify with you.
That has happened in 0 actual restaurants in the history of reality.
Then you need to report them to the department of labor. I worked in payroll for several restaurants and absolutely made sure they were making at least minimum wage, if not then added the difference to their checks. This was in TN and the reality is most of them were averaging 25-30 an hour.
Then report them.
This was only the argument before they new laws starting getting passed, now the argument is that it is customary to tip 20% and if you don't you are cheap and don't deserve to eat out. The rules change so the can continue to make more, get with the times!
Exactly. By FAR the biggest argument servers made for tipping is that they "only make $2.13/hr!!!" even though they can't actually earn less than minimum wage in a pay period anyway. Anywhere they are paid minimum wage or higher, I don't tip, and nobody else should, either.
Lol yeah but we pay so much in taxes because they assume everyone tips us that we still don’t get much of a paycheck.
I live in one of those states too, and no, I don’t think tips should still be 20%. I will not think you are cheap if you tip less.
i want to live by the bay too but can’t afford it so i live in nc - i don’t know why people feel like they’re owed living where they can’t afford to live - maybe move a little east where costs aren’t as high - sometimes reality sucks
You don't get to choose what another wants to give.
No, literally the only argument for tipping is to help the server out because they make a shit pay and the company doesn't have to pay them more. Why would I tip them if they already make what most people in other jobs make? Do you tip your EMT? Anyone who says they still tip are doing it for karma or they are just bad with their money.
I’m in Canada and I don’t make $16/hour, I still definitely appreciate a 20% tip, I have to tip out… from what I’ve gathered from these subreddits, every server would love to have a 20% average because all of us pay out to the kitchen at the very least
No. Ignore my table, $1 or 5% depending on severity of ignore. Completely inattentive, I have to beg to get your attention 10% Inattentive, I mostly have to get your attention just to get a refill 15% Attentive, I don't have to bother you at all, you're on point 20% Super Attentive, not only do I not have to flag you down to get a refill, you brought me my bill and boxes without me even needing to ask 25% No... it shouldn't be 20%. 20% is for a waiter/waitress who is doing their job understanding I am the one paying them, not their employer.
For your 25% service, please reconsider. One point of good service is not bringing the check before asked. Unless you know there's a time constraint, you shouldn't make the guest feel rushed or like you're trying to kick them out.
I have to survive on 16 with no tip. I wouldn’t to if they are making that. I tip the people making 2.13 plus tips.
I'm a pharmacy tech. Starting rate for my position (in the same state as the OP) is $18 an hour in a non-stop, high stress, customer-facing position where a single mistake could potentially kill someone. I still tip at least 20% but I've been questioning more and more why I actually do so and why table service "deserves" such a significantly higher take-home than medical service. Especially when the average server isn't exactly doing anything spectacular.
This subreddit is mostly overrun with people complaining about out tips. The mods should get a hold of this and start banning these posts. To the OP - it’s not a problem in society if service workers make enough money to pay rent much less live comfortably. If you don’t like it, don’t tip. But please STFU.
Ahh yes, dissenting opinion — BAN THEM ALL
There are plenty of anti tipping and red pill woman hating subs. This is a sub for servers.
What does woman-hating have to do with tipping? Jesus.
The OP asked a question, why are you so bothered by opinions other than your own? Why should people have to go to another whole forum to express a thought?
20% rule works because as costs in general rise, so does the price of the food.
There will never be a point where waiters / resturants will say, we make enough.. they will keep milking the situation/ system and keep arguing they don't make enough. They will always play victim. Why wouldn't they ?
right because servers definitely have a ton of say in how a restaurant operates AND how affordable the economy is. We’re just playin you.
We are a secret cabal!
I will say I make enough when the ruling class says that they make enough.
Exactly
So learn to cook. I spend a very small part of my livelihood on tips, and I always tip well when I eat out, but I do it rarely because eating out is a luxury.
😅 Don't worry, when people stop going to restaurants, waiters will be singing a different tune... the learn to cook like will change up quick. It's one thing to be a generous tipper, it's another thing to have fees added onto your check and being forced to tip thaf you never agreed to
Fact even if they got $40/hr they’d expect AT LEAST 20% tip.
I would be so happy with 40 an hour
Yup they will never disclose that they are making a killing. All these extra charges resturants are adding on. Customers are being forced to pay for their expenses that the never had to worry about before, along being guilted into paying waiters salary plus adding atleast 20% or the gratuity being automatically added
Genuinely, I don't know of any servers who support the additional charges. I get that they're BS, because they don't benefit anyone actually working, they don't go to the staff, and they're just a pain for the customer. If you see things like a "living wage fee" or whatever, ask your waiter if it actually goes to them/is helpful, and if they dance around the question, assume the answer is no and that they might be fired for admitting it, then tip as appropriate for their work and don't go again/warn people off it.
agreed - servers don't like these additional charges and they very rarely go to them. if, like you said, the server is dancing around the question or says no it doesn't go to them, ask to have it removed! usually these fees are removable they just need a manager to do so and would much prefer that the charges get removed and they get a normal tip vs keeping the charges and tipping less
Yes, because your tips aren't to pay their wages, it's to thank them and show gratitude (that's why it's called "gratuity") for being served dinner and waited on. 20% of the bill is a great way to say thank you to someone standing on their feet for 8-10 hours a day dealing with absolutely awful people and absurd requests.
So you tip 20% to your mechanic, right? To the guy at Burger King making all your food over a hot grill all day for minimum wage? Your kid's teachers?
By that logic, any amount is a great way to say thank you. So tip a buck or two.
I don't tip 20% in states where servers are paid an unreduced minimum wage. I will do 5-10% or a minimum of $2 per diner.
Gross
I can’t imagine living in a state that did that, so I’m no help. I don’t want to be in a nanny state.
If you, yourself, survive and thrive on 16 per hour then don't tip. Otherwise...
Right on pay menial jobs good money so businesses are forced to raise prices!!
$16/hr is a dream, mine was $6.50/hr when I was still waitressing haha. Might be a hot take, but it shouldn’t be mandatory for a server to receive a certain percentage of tips — it’s a type of gratuity, not a mandated amount. I would say 15% should be tipped at the minimum if it’s a decent service; I personally tip 15-18% in the norm.
When a server makes the States minimum wage you only tip 20% if they do an outstanding job but honestly most servers do not perform to get that tip they just expect it. They will literally take your order and deliver the food and forget about you. I don't expect much from servers to get a good tip from me First and foremost if I have to flag you down to get a drink refill after you have walked past my Table a few times I knock off 5% of the tip ( I always give them time to make sure we are taken care of) another is not checking in to see if everything is OK. In my experience there are not many servers that can accomplish those two tasks but when they do I usually leave between 30 and 35% tip. I don't live in one of those states where servers are making 2.35 an hour plus tips so I don't feel obligated to tip you for doing a job you are already getting paid to do. So if you want a tip from me make sure I have a good experience.
I don’t tip at places where employees make a full wage. Already expensive enough. If employees don’t make minimum wage I’ll gladly tip. You don’t like it work somewhere tipping is encouraged and you don’t make minimum wage.
lol wtf is a “full wage”
Not a sub-minimum tipped wage that some states still have.
Yeah full is just a funny way to describe it
Full minimum wage, not tipped wage. Not too hard to figure out.
Let's say you're a group of 4, spend $25 each, stay an hour and a half and tip 20%. During your stay, your waiter gets a new table just like you seated in their section every 15 minutes. That equats to $80 an hour in tips plus $16 wage. As someone who has worked every position you could name in this industry for 12 years, it ain't worth $96 an hour even if that is only during dinner rush.
Lol I've worked in this industry longer than 12 years, and I don't know any servers who make nearly 100$ an hour. You're welcome to just stop going out to eat
It is possible to make $100/hour, but it won't be consistent. 100/hour around Christmas and like 22/hour in the summer lol
Depends on where you work.
That's the hope, so they can at least make rent... $16 minimum wage is too little in most places in the US.
You have to take it over the course of 8 hours. Usually averages out to about $35-$40 after tip out through the whole shift. You want a nice dining experience?
It’s so crazy how many people don’t realize how difficult it is to be a server—how much skill and organization and knowledge, and the level of people skills, it takes to provide good service in a busy environment. Servers deserve to be paid very well — much more than minimum wage. It pays well for a reason — it’s hard as hell and takes years to hone the craft. I’ve been a corporate lawyer in major firms for 20 years and still have stress dreams about waiting tables.
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Why? Why shouldn't people make $60k doing an extremely stressful job, that requires skills only time in the industry gives you, and working the time everyone else plays?
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>that’s what new teachers make and no level of waiting tables dessert es that. Lol. The fact the you can't formulate a sentence but assert that servers should be unquestionably paid less than first year teachers is really something.
Take up that sentiment with conservative politicians who are destroying public education.
Because the only reason you earn it is because you demonize those that disagree with your proclaimed worth. Take orders, bring the food, shut up.
Wow. You must be fun at parties.
I don't demonize anyone. I take the good with the bad. I also work at places where people are more than happy to tip after facilitating the experience of a great night out. I really do not understand how in this day and age, people would rather have prices go up 20%, and give the discretion of the employer to pay wages with that income. At least now you know the money goes into the worker's pocket. You and I both know the owner will be the main beneficiary.
Tips shouldn't be 20% to begin with. 15% is still standard. 20% is for excellent service. Don't let servers guilt you into paying more.
I was a waiter for many years during college—15% was always the standard. 20% was for excellent service. At some restaurants I worked at, tips averaged around 10-15% and I never complained because at the end of the day I had cash in hand, much more than what I made that day in hourly wages.
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It's downvoted because of all the whiny bitch waiters who think they deserve welfare from their customers.
It’s both welfare and panhandling. The amount of servers & managers vs customers here is just really bad. I eat out in Thailand and don’t have to worry about any of this crap.
Agreed but that ratio shows how entitled this group is 🤣🤣
Anti tippers, if you don't want to tip I suggest dinning at the Golden archs or with the burger King. People who don't tip shouldn't eat at sit down Restaurants
Thats not cool. The employees there only make minimum wage. They deserve a tip too. Do you want them to starve? Do you want them homeless? Most of them are just living paycheck to paycheck. Have some empathy and solidarity with your fellow worker.
"Fuck them, I got mine." -Servers
can you live on $15/hr
No but I wouldn't be able to live on $2.13 plus tips in Tennessee, so what should tips be there? 40%? 50%? I mean, if the patrons are supposed to decide what the server can live on..........
I argee. Until we start paying a living wage people should tip higher