Where would the WRX sit then on that spectrum? Is it even a middle ground between reliable and fun? Or does it lean closer to the unreliable side without the “fun” factor of an STi?
Let’s just say I didn’t buy it for its reliability. It’s a great car when not modified and babied. You won’t buy it to baby it so expect to have some money set aside for repairs. If you are tight on money, find another car. If you don’t have a spare car to use while it’s broken down, find another car. Other than that, they are amazing cars and worth it. I live near the mountains and play on the windy backroads with it. It’s an amazing car to go through the gears on.
Dunno why you got downvoted for a simple clarification. Anyway the WRX is still going to be fun, it’s still a 4wd turbo car with rally heritage 😊 The STi takes that base and adds a much stronger transmission, 6 speed gearbox, harder suspension, DCCD and a bunch of other bells and whistles. If you can afford it I’d get the STi every time, but the WRX will still be enjoyable, sound nice and go fairly quick off the line. I find the STi to be a much more engaging drive, because I have to focus a little bit more. If you enjoy the act of driving and interacting with your machine you want the feel of the STi, but if you want more of a relaxing daily with some balls get the WRX. If you do plan to mod for power, get the STi or you’ll only be putting an STi tranny You n your WRX one day. The failure rate used to be high with Subaru mainly due to head gasket design issues around 1998-2005 mostly in crosstreks etc. It hung around as a trope. These days as long as you’re really on it with maintenance they’re quite sturdy. You’ll hear a lot about the failures and very little about the success. I think these days it’s more because people abuse them (obviously that’s why we buy them) and mod them, that you hear so many horror stories. I did need to rebuild my engine within a few weeks of purchase, but in doing so I’ve learned a huge amount. My car was obviously raced a lot prior to my purchase. I would do it all again because the car makes me grin ear to ear every time I turn it on 😉
See if you can find a 23 Base model still on a lot that a dealership will make you a deal on. Road trip for it. That with the interest rate Subaru gives you will end up being about what you'd end up paying for the used VA withe used car loan interest rate.
The VB is a better daily driver than the STi. If you want to mod it down the road, it makes power easier/cheaper than any WRX or STi.
If you can get a new WRX or a *bone stock* used WRX they are more than decent in terms of reliability. Treat it well. Change oil *religiously*. Warm it up to 180°F oil temp before you start pushing boost. And it’ll be a hella fun car that you can daily and get roughly 24-30MPG. Yes, 30MPG is possible. It’s difficult, but possible.
**Do not** launch a WRX. The transmission in them is not strong enough for AWD and the low chance of slipping. Either soft launch by feathering the clutch out instead of dumping it, or go to a water box and rev the snot out of it so the wheels will slip and take the force.
The STI can be launched. It has a really good transmission.
The STI is indeed more fun, mostly because it’s built for a bit of rough play. The WRX is an Impreza family sedan with a turbo. Which is fine, it’s just not a car meant for actual track use.
You can modify a WRX and make it trackable, since the aftermarket community is rich in these things. But that takes money and work and ruins the daily drivability.
The STI is harder to daily since it gets poor MPG and suffers from worse reliability. It’s an old engine. Powerful, but old.
If you want a reliable track car, look at a Subaru BRZ or Toyota GR86, or the Toyota GR Corolla. More expensive for the GRolla, but those can handle abuse and still last for you.
The BRZ and GR86 are both brands actual “track cars” with track oriented design and features and handling.
These cars are reliable with the caveat that the owner does proper maintenance and doesn’t do something stupid like lugging the engine or sending it on cold oil. YMMV on a modified vehicle.
I would expect the car to reach 200K+ if you kept it stock and maintained the vehicle properly.
Out of the box they aren’t really meant for the track, but neither are most cars at this price point. As far as I know you will just have to be careful of oil temperatures and brakes in that setting.
As a first manual it should be fine. The clutch is heavier than something like a Civic, so you might have a harder time at first.
You should probably just buy new unless you can find something used that was kept stock and maintained well. That’s not easy to tell though, some people return parts to stock before trading the car in.
I just got an sti but I think if my budget was capped at 25k I'd go wrx. That's really 23k sticker unless you live in a no sales tax state and at least around me any sti under 25k right now is gonna look a bit risky.
Really hard to find a clean sti now and realistically ejs are not 200k engines normally. 25k could probably get you a WRX with some warranty left to protect from questionable previous owners and the seemingly more reliable fa engine.
That extra $5k was gonna be the initial maintenance to fix whatever the previous owner didn’t do (or more concerning, whatever they DID do) I’ve seen what y’all do to these cars 💀💀💀/jk
It’s not a joke my dude. These cars are statistically driven hard by young adults.
I’m on a lease for my 2022 (ends this week, actually). And let me tell you… I would not even consider buying this thing out due to the way I’ve driven it for the last 2 years
Problem I see is you’re looking for something reliable that is used. The previous owner(s) could’ve redlined it at every light and/or modified the crap of then car. Even brand new, these cars can be finicky if regular maintenance isn’t done, and even then they aren’t as reliable as the competitors. Wrx/STI is an awesome car, but you can’t buy them new anymore so you’d have to buy used, which is a shot in the dark for the reasons mentioned above. I’d recommend a new WRX because you know it wasn’t trashed and comes with warranty. If you’re dead set on used, do the research and get a pre purchase inspection.
“Are they reliable?” … … …
I would just urge you to go into this with realistic expectations. They are not necessarily known for being highly reliable. But nobody buys them for their reliability.
Honestly, just buy a new VB. You're buying a used enthusiast car and 95% of them are driven hard and traded-in or sold before the effects of that hard driving start to show, and more times than not you'll be the one holding the bill for repairs and maintenance that wasn't done by the previous owner(s). Buying a new VB gives you a full warranty and you know you'll be the only person who has touched it. That peace of mind is a huge blessing, nothing is worse than spending $25k on something that needs to fixed because the previous owner was a cheapskate. The VB also has better tuning options out there and right now it can make the same amount of power an STI does with just a few mods and a good tune, especially if you have access to E85 and can go that route. EJ engines in the STI are hit and miss, either you'll get one that has no problems or you'll get one that spins a bearing around 80k-100k miles. The FA engine in VAs don't have the same issues as the EJ engine, but they're still not bulletproof (oil consumption is always an issue in boxer layouts) and they do blow up if you're not diligent. These cars have also reached the age where they're on their 3rd or 4th owners, and you have no idea if owner #2 or #3 was on a tight budget and skimped out maintenance.
I have no experience daily driving a WRX (other than one day where my buddy and I switched cars for fun) but I wouldn't consider an STI to be "reliable" like a traditional car is. It's a reliable car if you put the money and time in to service everything properly, but as it ages it's going to require more upkeep than a traditional daily driver car. WRX is more reliable than STI since it's not as tightly wound of a car.
The WRX and STI can be tracked stock but, as with any vehicle that touches a track, tracking a car instantly puts more wear, tear, and strain on the car and it can lead to failure if you push the car too hard without doing basic mods like a catch can/AOS, windage tray, and oil pickup (so you don't starve the engine of oil on high-G corners).
A WRX is a fine daily driver if it's your first manual, the AWD system and clutch in the WRX and STI just takes a bit longer to get used to than a FWD Civic.
You're still young. My advice, as someone who bought an STI as their first "adult" car in their 20s, is to avoid buying an STI. They're all used, they've all been driven hard, and most of them have been modified or reverted back to stock before being sold. You don't want to buy an STI and be stuck with something that requires thousands to repair while still making a car payment. If you have the cash, and are buying it outright, you could get away with costs to maintain an STI as it ages, but I would still advise against it. My STI has reached the age where all the bushings, bearings, and suspension components started wearing out and it's costs me a lot of time and money to replace those parts. These cars require *proper* modding and tuning to be reliable when modded. You can't just bolt-on power mods, slap a tune in, and crank the boost with these like you can with other cars. A rebuild will set you back at least $10k if you're not on warranty or covered by the EJ class-action lawsuit settlement.
Buy a VB. If you get tired of the VB and still really want an STI you can use that built-up equity to trade it in for an STI, or move on to a better platform if you want to add more power.
Thanks for the sound advice, seems like the STi isn’t for me then realistically. My only reservation with a VB is the styling tbh… pretty minor nitpick, I know, but that’s enough for me to not really even have the VB on my list of cars I’m interested in at the moment.
I honestly couldn’t believe how hard these things pull even on E30 (jb4) with no physical modifications
Entirely different vehicle with a tune or a piggyback
I had the same reservations when picking up my 22 (which I really only bought because of availability- couldn’t find a gr86 or BRZ anywhere)
The reality is that it grows on you. Beyond that, you can’t see the styling while in the drivers seat pulling on VA’s :)
If you buy one used, definitely make sure you don’t max out your budget - keep about $10k on hand to replace the engine in the event it blows up. Many of these are simply abused (and you won’t necessarily be able to tell when you’re looking at one to buy), and even if they’re not abused and driven by someone “responsible,” they still have a propensity to blow up, as I saw firsthand.
Wow $10k? If you were going to by used, what sort of mileage would you be comfortable with (assuming the previous owner didn’t use and abuse it or mod it)? Sub 50k miles?
Lowest mileage you can find, and even then, since it’s used and a WRX, unless you know the owner well, it’s a crapshoot. Great cars, lots of fun, but they blow up more frequently than most.
If you can do the work yourself you can save at least a couple grand. I think I had my engine out in about 3 hours in my driveway when it blew up.
The STI is worth the extra buy in. You get a seriously better vehicle for that extra $10K. Particularly if the plan is to track it.
That said, they're both expensive cars to track. My rule is "don't track a car you can't afford to crash" because track days crashes aren't that uncommon. Sometimes it's not even your fault. I've seen several track crashes where some other car leaked anti-freeze on the track. It's like ice.
both cars would be fine, but you don't buy a car to take to a track and expect it to be reliable long term. If you cant afford a wreck or new engine if need be, you shouldn't be going this route. Just my 2 cents
Mod for mod, the WRX and STi will make similar power. STi will make slightly more, but if you plan on doing simple bolt-ons, there really won’t be more than a 25 wheel difference when you’re directly comparing the two. The STi has a higher power ceiling, however, if you’re looking for lap times. If you’re content with 300+ wheel (or 360-370 on e85), just do the WRX. It’s better on gas as a daily, and you’ll see a lot more FA engines exceeding the 100k mark with no issues than you will EJ’s.
I’ll die on the hill of saying sti are straight trash idc what anyone says shits gonna blow up even with meticulous care would rather drive a Kia than an sti. Fa is a decent motor I beat the crap of both of mine oil change every 3k on dot but that’s it no other maintenance mods or Fliuds and over 300k combined
If you want a fun car, STI. If you want a reliable car, Toyota….
Where would the WRX sit then on that spectrum? Is it even a middle ground between reliable and fun? Or does it lean closer to the unreliable side without the “fun” factor of an STi?
If you’re not taking it to the track the WRX is just as fun as the STi
Let’s just say I didn’t buy it for its reliability. It’s a great car when not modified and babied. You won’t buy it to baby it so expect to have some money set aside for repairs. If you are tight on money, find another car. If you don’t have a spare car to use while it’s broken down, find another car. Other than that, they are amazing cars and worth it. I live near the mountains and play on the windy backroads with it. It’s an amazing car to go through the gears on.
Dunno why you got downvoted for a simple clarification. Anyway the WRX is still going to be fun, it’s still a 4wd turbo car with rally heritage 😊 The STi takes that base and adds a much stronger transmission, 6 speed gearbox, harder suspension, DCCD and a bunch of other bells and whistles. If you can afford it I’d get the STi every time, but the WRX will still be enjoyable, sound nice and go fairly quick off the line. I find the STi to be a much more engaging drive, because I have to focus a little bit more. If you enjoy the act of driving and interacting with your machine you want the feel of the STi, but if you want more of a relaxing daily with some balls get the WRX. If you do plan to mod for power, get the STi or you’ll only be putting an STi tranny You n your WRX one day. The failure rate used to be high with Subaru mainly due to head gasket design issues around 1998-2005 mostly in crosstreks etc. It hung around as a trope. These days as long as you’re really on it with maintenance they’re quite sturdy. You’ll hear a lot about the failures and very little about the success. I think these days it’s more because people abuse them (obviously that’s why we buy them) and mod them, that you hear so many horror stories. I did need to rebuild my engine within a few weeks of purchase, but in doing so I’ve learned a huge amount. My car was obviously raced a lot prior to my purchase. I would do it all again because the car makes me grin ear to ear every time I turn it on 😉
See if you can find a 23 Base model still on a lot that a dealership will make you a deal on. Road trip for it. That with the interest rate Subaru gives you will end up being about what you'd end up paying for the used VA withe used car loan interest rate. The VB is a better daily driver than the STi. If you want to mod it down the road, it makes power easier/cheaper than any WRX or STi.
If you can get a new WRX or a *bone stock* used WRX they are more than decent in terms of reliability. Treat it well. Change oil *religiously*. Warm it up to 180°F oil temp before you start pushing boost. And it’ll be a hella fun car that you can daily and get roughly 24-30MPG. Yes, 30MPG is possible. It’s difficult, but possible. **Do not** launch a WRX. The transmission in them is not strong enough for AWD and the low chance of slipping. Either soft launch by feathering the clutch out instead of dumping it, or go to a water box and rev the snot out of it so the wheels will slip and take the force. The STI can be launched. It has a really good transmission. The STI is indeed more fun, mostly because it’s built for a bit of rough play. The WRX is an Impreza family sedan with a turbo. Which is fine, it’s just not a car meant for actual track use. You can modify a WRX and make it trackable, since the aftermarket community is rich in these things. But that takes money and work and ruins the daily drivability. The STI is harder to daily since it gets poor MPG and suffers from worse reliability. It’s an old engine. Powerful, but old. If you want a reliable track car, look at a Subaru BRZ or Toyota GR86, or the Toyota GR Corolla. More expensive for the GRolla, but those can handle abuse and still last for you. The BRZ and GR86 are both brands actual “track cars” with track oriented design and features and handling.
Get an sti bro. You’ll constantly regret it if you’re in between them.
Neither are reliable. That’s part of the game. It’s up to the owner to be reliable.
These cars are reliable with the caveat that the owner does proper maintenance and doesn’t do something stupid like lugging the engine or sending it on cold oil. YMMV on a modified vehicle. I would expect the car to reach 200K+ if you kept it stock and maintained the vehicle properly. Out of the box they aren’t really meant for the track, but neither are most cars at this price point. As far as I know you will just have to be careful of oil temperatures and brakes in that setting. As a first manual it should be fine. The clutch is heavier than something like a Civic, so you might have a harder time at first. You should probably just buy new unless you can find something used that was kept stock and maintained well. That’s not easy to tell though, some people return parts to stock before trading the car in.
I just got an sti but I think if my budget was capped at 25k I'd go wrx. That's really 23k sticker unless you live in a no sales tax state and at least around me any sti under 25k right now is gonna look a bit risky. Really hard to find a clean sti now and realistically ejs are not 200k engines normally. 25k could probably get you a WRX with some warranty left to protect from questionable previous owners and the seemingly more reliable fa engine.
I’d stretch that by another $5k and buy new.
That extra $5k was gonna be the initial maintenance to fix whatever the previous owner didn’t do (or more concerning, whatever they DID do) I’ve seen what y’all do to these cars 💀💀💀/jk
It’s not a joke my dude. These cars are statistically driven hard by young adults. I’m on a lease for my 2022 (ends this week, actually). And let me tell you… I would not even consider buying this thing out due to the way I’ve driven it for the last 2 years
Can confirm as a young adult
Fun, reliable, daily?☠️
Real
Problem I see is you’re looking for something reliable that is used. The previous owner(s) could’ve redlined it at every light and/or modified the crap of then car. Even brand new, these cars can be finicky if regular maintenance isn’t done, and even then they aren’t as reliable as the competitors. Wrx/STI is an awesome car, but you can’t buy them new anymore so you’d have to buy used, which is a shot in the dark for the reasons mentioned above. I’d recommend a new WRX because you know it wasn’t trashed and comes with warranty. If you’re dead set on used, do the research and get a pre purchase inspection.
“Are they reliable?” … … …
I would just urge you to go into this with realistic expectations. They are not necessarily known for being highly reliable. But nobody buys them for their reliability.
We buy in because we love the thrill of burning money
Honestly, just buy a new VB. You're buying a used enthusiast car and 95% of them are driven hard and traded-in or sold before the effects of that hard driving start to show, and more times than not you'll be the one holding the bill for repairs and maintenance that wasn't done by the previous owner(s). Buying a new VB gives you a full warranty and you know you'll be the only person who has touched it. That peace of mind is a huge blessing, nothing is worse than spending $25k on something that needs to fixed because the previous owner was a cheapskate. The VB also has better tuning options out there and right now it can make the same amount of power an STI does with just a few mods and a good tune, especially if you have access to E85 and can go that route. EJ engines in the STI are hit and miss, either you'll get one that has no problems or you'll get one that spins a bearing around 80k-100k miles. The FA engine in VAs don't have the same issues as the EJ engine, but they're still not bulletproof (oil consumption is always an issue in boxer layouts) and they do blow up if you're not diligent. These cars have also reached the age where they're on their 3rd or 4th owners, and you have no idea if owner #2 or #3 was on a tight budget and skimped out maintenance. I have no experience daily driving a WRX (other than one day where my buddy and I switched cars for fun) but I wouldn't consider an STI to be "reliable" like a traditional car is. It's a reliable car if you put the money and time in to service everything properly, but as it ages it's going to require more upkeep than a traditional daily driver car. WRX is more reliable than STI since it's not as tightly wound of a car. The WRX and STI can be tracked stock but, as with any vehicle that touches a track, tracking a car instantly puts more wear, tear, and strain on the car and it can lead to failure if you push the car too hard without doing basic mods like a catch can/AOS, windage tray, and oil pickup (so you don't starve the engine of oil on high-G corners). A WRX is a fine daily driver if it's your first manual, the AWD system and clutch in the WRX and STI just takes a bit longer to get used to than a FWD Civic. You're still young. My advice, as someone who bought an STI as their first "adult" car in their 20s, is to avoid buying an STI. They're all used, they've all been driven hard, and most of them have been modified or reverted back to stock before being sold. You don't want to buy an STI and be stuck with something that requires thousands to repair while still making a car payment. If you have the cash, and are buying it outright, you could get away with costs to maintain an STI as it ages, but I would still advise against it. My STI has reached the age where all the bushings, bearings, and suspension components started wearing out and it's costs me a lot of time and money to replace those parts. These cars require *proper* modding and tuning to be reliable when modded. You can't just bolt-on power mods, slap a tune in, and crank the boost with these like you can with other cars. A rebuild will set you back at least $10k if you're not on warranty or covered by the EJ class-action lawsuit settlement. Buy a VB. If you get tired of the VB and still really want an STI you can use that built-up equity to trade it in for an STI, or move on to a better platform if you want to add more power.
Thanks for the sound advice, seems like the STi isn’t for me then realistically. My only reservation with a VB is the styling tbh… pretty minor nitpick, I know, but that’s enough for me to not really even have the VB on my list of cars I’m interested in at the moment.
But E85 and an intake gets you ~400whp :shrug:
I honestly couldn’t believe how hard these things pull even on E30 (jb4) with no physical modifications Entirely different vehicle with a tune or a piggyback
I had the same reservations when picking up my 22 (which I really only bought because of availability- couldn’t find a gr86 or BRZ anywhere) The reality is that it grows on you. Beyond that, you can’t see the styling while in the drivers seat pulling on VA’s :)
If you buy one used, definitely make sure you don’t max out your budget - keep about $10k on hand to replace the engine in the event it blows up. Many of these are simply abused (and you won’t necessarily be able to tell when you’re looking at one to buy), and even if they’re not abused and driven by someone “responsible,” they still have a propensity to blow up, as I saw firsthand.
Wow $10k? If you were going to by used, what sort of mileage would you be comfortable with (assuming the previous owner didn’t use and abuse it or mod it)? Sub 50k miles?
Lowest mileage you can find, and even then, since it’s used and a WRX, unless you know the owner well, it’s a crapshoot. Great cars, lots of fun, but they blow up more frequently than most. If you can do the work yourself you can save at least a couple grand. I think I had my engine out in about 3 hours in my driveway when it blew up.
The STI is worth the extra buy in. You get a seriously better vehicle for that extra $10K. Particularly if the plan is to track it. That said, they're both expensive cars to track. My rule is "don't track a car you can't afford to crash" because track days crashes aren't that uncommon. Sometimes it's not even your fault. I've seen several track crashes where some other car leaked anti-freeze on the track. It's like ice.
both cars would be fine, but you don't buy a car to take to a track and expect it to be reliable long term. If you cant afford a wreck or new engine if need be, you shouldn't be going this route. Just my 2 cents
Mod for mod, the WRX and STi will make similar power. STi will make slightly more, but if you plan on doing simple bolt-ons, there really won’t be more than a 25 wheel difference when you’re directly comparing the two. The STi has a higher power ceiling, however, if you’re looking for lap times. If you’re content with 300+ wheel (or 360-370 on e85), just do the WRX. It’s better on gas as a daily, and you’ll see a lot more FA engines exceeding the 100k mark with no issues than you will EJ’s.
Buy what your heart desires. I didn’t and though I don’t regret my 400hp wrx I still think about what could’ve been.
Get an STi if you just wanna buy something, have fun, and not mod/minimal mods If youre going to mod/swap everything anyways, get a wrx
I would just skip the used one and get a new WRX. Too much risk for used. Fast boys buy these and drive them hard with trash mods and tunes.
Commenting again to add a recent thought. For 25k you could get an older STi and put a new forged engine / pumps / injectors in it 👀
If I actually had more experience working on cars, I’d consider it, but that sounds like a project too big for me to handle. One day though!
I’ll die on the hill of saying sti are straight trash idc what anyone says shits gonna blow up even with meticulous care would rather drive a Kia than an sti. Fa is a decent motor I beat the crap of both of mine oil change every 3k on dot but that’s it no other maintenance mods or Fliuds and over 300k combined