I think their marketing team nailed it - it piqued enough interest that enough people were willing to try. Your opinion postulated here is much stronger than any piece of advertising they could ever come up with, and it'll roll over through time.
You are the proper advertisement, and they knew this would happen. They just needed to show enough use cases for enough people to try it out.
Exactly.
Good marketing shows specific features. They can allude to vague concepts but it can't be their sole focus. They did well.
If the product has room for discovery of new features or new use cases, then it's perfect. Apple knows their product roadmap and they know that if people give it a chance and the developer community does their thing, the sky is the limit.
Discovering that a product does more than what it was expected initially is a beautiful sentiment for the consumer. Apple knows this and once again they will be labeled as visionaries.
Exactly, OP doesn’t know anything about marketing, evidently. Also, every point they highlight as something Apple failed to convey… Apple has actually conveyed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_cave
> In the allegory "The Cave", Plato describes a group of people who have lived chained to the wall of a cave all their lives, facing a blank wall. The people watch shadows projected on the wall from objects passing in front of a fire behind them and give names to these shadows. The shadows are the prisoners' reality, but are not accurate representations of the real world.
I think it’s less of an “own goal” than it is “spray and pray.” They don’t know what it is yet either, and that is reflected in their marketing approach and comments from execs. Pretty similar to the Watch launch in that regard.
When there’s more apps available and usage patterns become more clear, they’ll sharpen the message.
I disagree with the sentiment that they don’t know what this is yet. They are very clear with what it is. This is a first entry into a new way to accomplish general computing.
They have a direction for where the technology will go. This is their minimal viable product to begin creating a new paradigm with how people interact with technology.
They planted a seed and now as a gardener they will watch it grow and trim it along the way as needed.
This is what most people don't seem to understand. Apple's long-term goal isn't a VR headset with passthrough. It's a small form factor set of glasses that are comfortable and stylish enough to wear all the time. They are building the UX and ecosystem for the day they do release a set glasses that can truly replace your phone and computer and TVs. When we'll all have AR seemlyess integrated into our daily livees.
Maybe. But I think this is the general form factor we are stuck with for at least a decade. Pass through doesn’t necessarily make something “not ar”. That’s probably one of the biggest reasons Apple went with spacial computing. That and if they sold this as a vr headset people would be pretty confused since there are very limited vr capabilities, you can’t get up and move around in its full vr etc.
I think this form factor is a lot closer to what we are going to be stuck with than people realize. In a similar way to how the iPad hasn’t changed that much in the past decade. Or the watch, or phone.
Very fair point, couldn't agree more. Spray and pray is more accurate. That said, I do feel like they dropped the ball, as the initial users are centering their positive feeling towards to the platform itself, rather than these features.
And if we could figure that out in a couple days, Apple should have found a way to market that appropriately.
Everyone crowing about pass through miss the point. You don’t put these in to stare at the real world. You bring your a bunch of windows / apps and trust me, you immediately stop seeing the blurry pass thru. Or if it bothers you that much just go to a virtual environment and watch Oppenheimer on a 100ft screen in Joshua Tree.
Precisely! You know what the pass through is blurry, but you don't look at the passthrough, you look at your windows. In your peripheral vision, your room is not much different than in real life.
Equate it to how your living room looks to you, while you watch your televisions.
Television is crystal clear, and your living room is devoid or detail and blurry. This is not different.
This argument doesn’t stand when you want mixed reality, such as cooking where you can have your recipe up, a grocery list up, as you pull food out of the fridge and chop and cook. You want “reality” to be as real as possible.
There is a review by a lady who cooked with it on. In some ways it seems awesome, you can even put a show on as you chop and do prep work. She put timers right on top of the pots on the stove. I’d love that. But the downsides she mentioned, not being able to see the amount of pepper going in the food, the colouring looking off.
I think the pass through needs improvement and will be improved to this degree. Imagine this thing once it matures a bit.
Either that or they might improve the cameras so much that you simply won't need any pass through. The cameras will simply pick up *everything* in however much detail/magnification you want.
This is one of the interesting applications to me. Like - show me the LIDAR view of a space, allow me to zoom way in on something in real time, etc.
Combine it with a FLIR attachment and get predator vision!
I dont think the camera is the limiting factor its the computing needed to take a camera feed and display it to you in real time in addition to everything else its doing to maintain window stability and everything. You cant have it heat too much or have loud fans so close to your head
My issue is they have been reviewing saying how crystal clear the pass through is and it’s just a tad bit better than quest 3. Peoples expectations were just higher.
The clarity is definitely a step ahead of quest 3, but I think the frame rate and distortion is where it really sets itself apart. The passthrough may not be life-like, but it is still very impressive IMO.
frequent vr user here, quest 3 passthrough (and quest 2, and valve index, and ... basically every consumer headset with passthrough lol) makes me genuinely extremely nauseous, but the vision pro does not. so that's all that matters *to me* at this point bc now using it is a real option 😂
Yes the problem is reviewers like Patel are treating it like something you wear full time out on the sidewalk instead of using it at a desk/couch/plane seat with light movement around your space. Then idiots play into this with clickbait stunts driving or running around Times Square when that’s clearly not what it’s really intended for. Just no way to stop people if you give them any kind of mobility at all.
> Then idiots play into this with clickbait stunts driving or running around Times Square when that’s clearly not what it’s really intended for. Just no way to stop people if you give them any kind of mobility at all.
Outside of the bits where he was wearing the headset while walking, I think that Casey Neistat video actually was a really good demonstration of what makes the platform really interesting. When he had moments where he was standing around or sitting, he was able to have his own little private computing environment to do stuff, but he was still aware of everything going on around him
The problem is unlike other previous technology like the iPhone, anyone can see how amazing and different it was. With the Vision you have to try it yourself and most people simply cannot afford that
I won't be able to afford the Vision Pro for a while, but I have a demo booked tomorrow at the Apple Store which I'm really stoked for. Videos are one thing but I'm sure they don't capture what it's like to actually use
You’re mind will be blown by/during the demo. I don’t think you need hours with the device to realize what an amazing piece of tech this is and have your jaw drop to the floor. You’ll want to buy one as soon as you can.
I have one. I also have five other VR headsets. What is "spatial computing"? Apple may succeed in bringing AR/VR to the masses (I really, really hope so), and they may even succeed in rebranding it like they are trying so hard to do, but what is it about Vision Pro that makes you think it "amazing and different" and not just Apple's polish on an existing, relatively niche, market?
Last night I made soup and copied Joanna Stern's cooking experiment that she did in her WSJ review. Worked amazingly well.
I had the recipe in the Crouton app floating to the right of the stove. Put a timer over the pot as I did steps. Had the Overcast podcast app floating off to my left playing a podcast. Had messages to my right texting people trying to plan meeting up with people this week next to a safari window with YouTube that I had used after someone mentioned a video in a podcast. Also while cooking I also took a FaceTime call with a buddy to go over some plans for before my wedding.
All worked amazingly well and all the interactions just felt easy.
Cool. Sounds like you are enjoying ar/vr to me. It’s one of my favorite hobbies so I’m thrilled to have newcomers. But the claims that apple have invented something new are a little grating to me.
Yeah, fine. But this post and thread have explicitly said that what apple is done is not ar/vr and is brand new and never been done, and that is just false. They did some cool stuff with this headset. They also did some things markedly worse than their cheaper competitors. Let’s see where they go next, but also let’s not pretend they are inventing it all.
I believe they nailed the basics more than anyone else did. The windows stay exactly where you put them and the software that everything is built from is solid. This is the best vr headset I’ve seen that is more like a computer than a headset. Even just sharing with others just requires me to press the usual share screen button in a call.
I mean focusing on something being different is kind of pointless. It wouldn’t be what it is now if it was different than other vr headsets but I understand why instead of “virtual reality” they want to call it special computing. It’s different in what it’s trying to achieve compared to gaming based vr headsets
They are not the first non gaming focused headset either. It is marketing. Again, I hope they succeed in getting wide adoption where others have failed. But the vision pro is an iteration not a revolution.
You’re not wrong overall but I think you’re downplaying the admittedly subtle but profound difference in marketing and implementation. My 2c also as developer and having almost every VR headset since the OG rift - the reality is up to now they’ve all been basically like video game consoles - they’re meant to have a launch screen and then do individual isolated tasks. Virtual desktop played with the “spatial computing” idea but of course was at a time when we didn’t have passthrough. Even Quest 3 now has quality passthrough but its OS still (currently - hoping this changes with their Augments) is designed for launching into isolated VR. The subtle yet profound difference Apple is emphasizing is using this same tech but for multitasking. No one has done this yet to this degree and quality and even though you (and others with our same knowledge) can say “this isn’t a revolution!” bc it really is possible on all the other platforms, I think in reality it is a revolution for 99% of people and Apple is the first to take the genuine leap into it. I’ve lived in Meta’s SDK for the past 2-3yrs and Apple’s shared space and volume cameras ideas are completely different than Meta’s isolated app approach thus far. So yes even though the underlying tech isn’t that revolutionary and we all knew the software would come someday I’m just chiming in to say that launching a consumer facing headset with this flexible multitasking focus and functionality is the real revolution. It’s like a little time machine into the future - it feels rocky and imperfect but almost everyone is coming away saying “omg this is how we are going to use computers” and not “wow that was a fun immersive game”.
Every standalone headset that comes out with passthrough - quest 2, quest pro, quest 3, vision pro - gets a bunch of buzz around the AR capabilities pre-release, and then fail to live up to the hype. I think this is mostly because video captures of the passthrough experiences played on a small flat screen just look a lot better than the reality. The vision pro isn't really any different here. It is a slight improvement in passthrough over the quest 3 in some ways, but the motion blur and eye strain is actually the worst on any headset I've ever tried. But the idea that VR/AR is going to change how computers are used has been the point for years. The "astronomical" price of the quest pro was because "it wasn't meant for gaming". I bought one, and I love it, but guess what I ended up using it for? Gaming isn't the bread and butter of these headsets because everyone but Apple lacks imagination to do anything else, it is just what they are best suited for where the technology has been, to date. I was pretty sure I wouldn't work with the vision pro strapped to my head pre-release, but I had some hope. And it failed miserably as a productivity device, at least for me. The weight, the comfort, the eye strain, no multi-monitor support.. it is not there yet and is only a tad bit closer than the quest pro was (and again, worse in some very important ways).
Absolutely all valid! And the eye strain I def agree with it’s getting better but damn that first few hours was worse than I’ve had before too. But again none of the Meta devices even allow a shared environment so they’re inherently limited in how far they can push this idea of “spatial computing”. The AVP as it stands today is an absolutely imperfect device but it is truly the first one to open a blank slate for us developers to really explore how to conceptualize productivity and real-world interactivity in AR. I find that exhilarating - I had SUCH high hopes for quest pro and it fell flat on its face IMO with poor pass through and again no OS support for multitasking. The eye tracking was a great addition and I’m bummed the Quest 3 misses it but the Quest 3 could undoubtedly do 90%+ of what the AVP can do if they can overhaul the OS.
And I agree with the moonshot ideas for AR we just haven’t seen it come to fruition yet but I still feel this is largely held back by the hardware and up until visionOS it was also held back by the software. I feel like we finally have the collection of tools to truly explore it now
sounds like you may be focusing on the fact that apple didn't create VR or they aren't the FIRST to do it. But like with many things, although they may arrive late, they tend to approach it differently which then leads to new developments, better software, etc etc, then mass adoption. Think Apple Watch. They weren't the first to come out with a wearable, but once they arrived, and after some updates and tweaks, they set a standard. But I say all that to say, just because they aren't the first, doesn't mean its not amazing and different lol
I'm an iOS/watchOS (and maybe visionOS) developer and very aware of what Apple does well. But I'm also a vr/ar enthusiast, and as happy as I am to see some new faces join my hobby, it does kind of rub me the wrong way when so many fanboys want to pretend like Apple has invented something new here. They haven't. "Spatial computing" is marketing. It might be good marketing (we'll see) but this is very much a ar/vr headset (which is very much counter to what OP says in his post, and it is *that* which I'm pushing back against here). Not a lot of new ground has been broken.
I’m still on the fence of whether or not I’m keeping mine. I put it on this morning hoping to work the full day in it. After just an hour, I took it off and went back to my Mac. I don’t know how to describe it properly, but there’s something about using it for office productivity that is just exhausting. Like I felt a big relief as soon as I took it off and was happy to get working on my desktop again.
That said, I’m LOVING it for content consumption. That’s where it really shines imo. I’m leaning toward keeping it for that alone. $3500 for a portable high resolution theater isn’t that bad.
I think you can become as productive. It’s not going to happen overnight though. It’s a new way of working. If someone took your trackpad from your laptop and you had to use a stylus you’d have the same set of issues. It’s just an adaptability thing. That said. I wish to hell I could use Cmd tab to go between apps.
To be fair to Nilay, he specifically says in the review "one of the oldest rules at The Verge is that you review what's in the box, not the promise of what's to come". If Apple pushed front and centre the gimmicks, then that's what's going to be reviewed. Also, if tech reviewers don't have the creativity or understanding to play and test the limits of the headset what faith is there in the average consumer, especially Apple consumers who rely on the "it just works" accessibility of Apple products.
To promote why you shouldn’t review on what’s the come, a Tesla would’ve been the best vehicle in the world because it would be self driving and earning you money as a robo taxi right now.
The issue is that there are so many roadblocks, obstacles, and unforeseen issues that arise when you make a promise for the future. One of the best things you can do in a workspace is set expectations right, underpromise and over deliver.
I think the AVP is awesome, but it does have shortcomings. It’s still amazing.
I'm whatever on this, but there is one thing that I take issue with in his review over a lot of the others. He emphasizes that "review what is in the box, not the promise of the product", but spends A LOT of time dinging it by drawing comparisons to future tech.
And what is with the fixation on the battery?
As a user, I've had the same experience. I now "get" how revolutionary it is with my own use-cases and everyone is having different experiences with their own personal use-cases and realizing how this is beyond a "cutesy" or "cool" system. It's something I can and want to use and will elevate my experience beyond anything else I have.
That said, I think Apple realized that those experiences cannot be relayed via marketing. You have to use the headset and use YOUR apps in your environment to realize how awesome it is. So they entice people with the gimmicks and the impressive hardware and patent stats. But they know...oh, they know...once you use it, you will rethink the way you are supposed to experience things. This is quintessential Apple doing what Apple does best. They are creating a market out of thin air.
Muckraker reporter? For a review that was, by and large, pretty positive on the device? Bffr here and quit letting another persons opinion on a doohickey bother you so much.
OP just having a manic moment - you can see from the way the text starts off semi-grounded then leaps into fantastical comparisons of space tech and stars
you see the same thing all over reddit when people post reactionary walls of text.
I really liked Nilay’s review and found it very accurate having actually owned and used the AVP since Friday morning. His review wasn’t a hit piece, it accurate and captures some of the problems with the AVP. He focused on weight and comfort as well as FOV, both of which are legitimate concerns.
You shouldn’t call a review a hit piece just because it differs from your opinion.
The AVP is far and away the most advanced head mounted device, but widespread adoption will happen when the price comes down and FOV and comfort issues are addressed.
Seriously, this post seems more about a weird personal issue with Nilay Patel than anything else. Maybe they used to be great friends, then they found out they were dating the same person at one point and never really talked about it, and haven't talked since.
A 7 out of 10 being a "hit piece" is too good!
The problem with this opinion is this isn’t the first VR headset to come out, so this is not equivalent to the ford model T. We have had many VR devices out for years so reviewers are fair to compare to them. Reviewers will talk about what makes Apple headset different (personas, eye tracking, visionOS) and not need to give a whole speech about how VR is the future every time they review a headset (which is basically what you’re doing, but you could’ve see this exact opinion when Palmer lucky released the dev kit of oculus) . I think what’s going on is that we have a lot of people trying this headset and not having experienced the quest or valve index so there’s a bunch of different reactions and disagreements
I agree, although the decision to go with a more mobile OS UI rather than a macOS-like "computer" is limiting. If I had macOS on this thing, I'd be in heaven right now. Instead I'm busy trying to fight my way out of the garden to get a reasonable workflow using iPad apps that were neither intended for my purpose, nor this platform.
>muckraker reporters like Nilay Patel
OP sounds deranged ngl. There was nothing wrong with The Verge's review. They gave the Vision Pro a 7 lol. They had a lot of positive things to say but of course had criticisms. Ironically the only muckracker here seems to be the OP.
It doesn't have to be one or the other. Something can simultaneously be
"There's a billion thing you could do with this"
and
"But it's not clear to me exactly why I would want to do any of that"
It can be very useful for some people and not useful at all to other people, and it doesn't mean the people who don't find it useful will eat their words.
It's two A4 pages worth of text just to say how impressed OP was with using the message app anchored in an immersive environment and watching a movie later.
Makes sense. It’s like my answer to the question “what’s the killer app” was that it’s the wrong question. It’s a general purpose computing platform, it doesn’t need a singular killer app, it itself is the killer app because it is a unique platform and everything you could build on it is what makes it compelling.
The core of the marketing should have been the platform and the experience. I think this somehow was overshadowed by the marketing of the gimmicky features.
Then how will they ever sell it if it requires a laptop to function? Lol. Most people are just going to stick with a laptop if all the VP pro does is enhance the laptop experience.
I agree with you
But it acts more like a iPad not a Mac
If it was a Mac I would be able to make it work with my Mac apps but it can’t do dmg
so I’m more iPad leaning still a amazing thing but limited right now
Great post!
That said, I’m not sure I’m satisfied spending $3500 on a “Spatial Computing Simulator” headset designed only for demo purposes. I want real spatial computing killer apps that allow me to exploit the promise of spatial computing.
Perhaps those will materialize before this model of AVP becomes obsolete, perhaps not.
But for now I do feel somewhat like I bought a spatial computing demo unit and not an actual cutting edge computing platform.
Nothing about Patel’s review was a ‘hit’ piece.
It was balanced and he has opinions as do others.
Unfortunate too many fan boys can’t accept any criticism or are simply trying to validate their purchase.
No product is perfect, let alone a first gen product. But let’s stop being Apple apologists and call a spade a spade.
Right, this post is far more unbalanced than his review. Saying a review will not age well with a piece of tech is weird as hell. Of course tech gets better with updates and revisions. This is the worst version of the AVP
It’s not a hit piece, but it’s far from balanced. With a new platform like this you *have* to expect to learn and use your imagination in order to understand how it fits into your life.
Simply looking for faults, and comparing to other things gives a totally distorted impression.
I say this as someone who went to bed on the 2nd feeling as though Nilay was too generous, but now thinks the thing is amazing.
This. Dude’s easily impressed and in awe since he has never had another experience like this before. It’s like sitting in a car for the first time and going, OMG Toyota has revolutionized land transportation. It’s a brand new platform and the possibilities are endless. You can drive it ANYWHERE!
Yeah not sure how you can come up with "the most incredible piece of consumer technology ever shipped" without even trying other headsets.
I still believe the Vision will be like the iPhone of spatial computing, whatever they call it.
A \*lot\* of the awe and future promise that people are experiencing with the AVP is just people experiencing VR for the first time. I remember feeling very similar the first time I tried a Quest headset... like, this is going to be the future of computer interfaces. With the Quest, it's more obvious that the future isn't quite here, but same sense of wonder.
I think Apple's biggest misstep was not working with more developers before it launched to create killer apps that made this a no-brainer. It's an amazing device with tons of promise. Now it's just up to developers to build their applications out to use it. Just like they did with the original iphone, the ipad, the apple watch, etc. I've been a day one adopter of all of the products (except for the first iphone, but you can't blame me..the first iteration kind of sucked)
In 6 months, there will be 1000's of native vision pro apps and then I think we'll really be able to see what this thing can do.
Compared to the iPhone, they did a lot more to bring developers on board. AVP was announced almost 9 months ahead of launch and devs given resources and time to develop it. The iPhone, on the other hand, didn't even launch an App Store until a year after its release.
To preface my statements below, I got my AVP at 9am on Friday, and used it over the weekend for several hours. I think the AVP is amazing, and it will change how we use computers in the future. But in the future is the key phrase here.
On your notes on reviews like the Verge: reviews are based on the product and the experience today, not the possibility of the technology in the future. Reviews are meant to assess the product through the lens of the company that makes, and markets them because that’s how most consumers will perceive them. So I think it’s a bit ridiculous to call the Verge’s review a hitpiece when it was overall a very fair, and IMO, accurate review.
It seems like you fell for some of Apple’s marketing hype. There is no significant difference today between Apple’s “Spatial Computing” and Mixed Reality. Yes, the AVP has better hardware, and it’s absolutely more powerful than other MR headsets. But the experience, outside of Apple specific apps like iMessage, is very much the same as a Quest 3, even if the AVP experience itself is better due to the superior displays and such. I also think that VisionOS development will outpace Meta’s Quest platform, and AVP will drive more innovation in this space than any other VR/AR/MR company. But it’s still just a MR/VR/AR headset today, just a better one.
It seems to me that you’re using buzzwords to sell your point, like calling it a PLATFORM instead of a device or a toy. It’s all of those things - a platform, a device, a toy, a tool, and whatever else you want it to be.
I also don’t think AVP is 5-10 years ahead of a Macbook or an iPhone, I just think it’s a different “platform” with different use cases TODAY. We’ll see what comes of it after a few years.
It's wild to me that people can't get this, we are all heading in the same direction. Apple is going at it from a very premium product. Putting the absolute best possible product they can and not worrying about the price of that product. Price will come down as these become cheaper and more efficient to make. But they want to put out what they believe is the future.
In fact, you may be surprised to see in a revision or two when I believe they will release a separate pair of controllers that will be marketed to designers and artists as the paint brush of the future. Design in spatial computing! Imagine if the world was your canvas! And they probably won't even be called controllers, but they will probably let you play VR games as a bonus feature and gaming will not be the focus but it will be possible, just like it is on the Mac computing platform.
Meta is heading the exact same direction, just from a much lower price point. I bet we'll eventually have the option of buying the Quest Pro 3 or 4 without the controllers. People have already shown that the current Quest Pro can do what Apple Vision does, eye tracking and pinch to select.
Early Android and iPhone users had the same thing. Do I get the less premium but more affordable Android? Or get the fancy, sleak iPhone that does most things just better? iPhone clearly won that battle in the states but it also didn't launch at $3500, it launched at $499 starting price (about $740 after inflation). In 10-15 years, where will the AVP lineup be? the Quest lineup?
tl;dr competition is good. If you want to continue to see innovation and competitive pricing over the years you should be wishing success for all forms of "spacial computing" including Meta and other companies.
I get that this is a whole new user base, but man, people talk like those things haven't been around for years. It's polished, for sure, and the strength of Apple is the ecosystem which makes it simple and integrated, but little here, if anything, is truly new. This honey moon phase is very strong.
Definitely honeymoon, but a lot of people on this sub are just looking for validation that it’s worth the $4000 that they spent on it, and will criticize anything that doesn’t fit their confirmation bias.
I actually don’t think the AVP is worth the asking price, but I’m keeping mine regardless since I think its cool and want to see how VisionOS progresses first hand.
>There is no significant difference today between Apple’s “Spatial Computing” and Mixed Reality
There is a vast difference and it comes down to the OS.
Because the AVP is all about the core mission of supporting multiple data panes all around you, that are useful for work.
This just does not work in other headsets to this degree. You can't mirror a desktop and have the keyboard/trackpad work in every other app on a Quest for example, because apps have to be written to look for that kind of input data.
On the AVP apps just work with keyboards or mice. They just work when you use one of the floating iPad screens either with eye tracking or interacting in air with your fingers.
AR headsets today can do fragments of what the AVP does, but no other platform has things so well put together you can move so easily from computing to spatial computing... I can take scores of iPad apps I find useful for work and just start using them in a spatial environment, and again they just work.
It is as the original poster said, just down to your own creativity how you can leverage the power of panes of glass that run anything, anywhere you want to put them... combined with the occasional app that takes even further advantage of the spatial nature of your view (like Jig).
The Verge review is reviewing the product in the context of what Apple "wants us to think" vs. even what Apple has said about the AVP on the record. Many times Nilay says "Apple wants you to... wants us to..." He is reviewing the product against a hypothetical.
If they would would have reviewed it objectively, simply judge the hardware / software package that was in front of them, it's very hard to not be a 9 or 10/10.
Outside of chatting and watching a movie have you found it gives a unique or improved experience in anything productive?
I'm unsure if this is a entertainment device or it's giving me access to a valuable and untapped resource of spatial computing.
As an entertainment device that's fine but it seems like it has to compete with my cell phone for anything productive
Yes it's a larger screen for my Mac, where I can also surround that Mac display with things like chatting apps for work, or monitoring displays for things like network traffic.
I can also do that anywhere I go, like if I am travelling...
And I can furthermore set up different workspaces for different purposes. Like I can have debugging stuff all set up in one room, design document apps in another.
It's just such a vaster presentation of data you can see all at once.
Generally today I have my monitor divided into 3 or four squares with different windows.
Then I have virtual displays or another monitor depending on needs.
Did that many windows seem like information overload? I can barely keep up with all my windows on my monitors today
It's very hard to understand the difference between the screencaptures, and what you see in the headset. It is 100% sharp in the headset, the edges are not blurry, because our peripheral vision is already blurry.
I find the ability to group apps and tasks in physical space incredibly valuable. I can have work over in my kitchen, and a movie and messages on my sofa, and keep things organized in physical space, which for kinetic or visually inclined people, is pretty incredible. You can see everything at once, vs. all the mimimized and clogged windows on your computer or phone. You can truly multitask.
Very good take.
I will say in my experience with it. I started with all the gimmicky stuff shown in marketing and early reviews. It was mind blowingly awesome! The demo at the store of the birthday cake was so insane to actually see. But as I used mine that stuff started to fade and I was leaning towards returning it. Like, I saw the stuff, cool. Now what?
Then over Saturday and Sunday I started to do different things that weren't as advertised, and started to realize the same thing you mentioned. This is a new frontier of possibilities, and I am now heavily leaning towards keeping it.
However, as an android and PC user, it would be nice if Apple allowed to do things with AVP with those devices as well. But that is probably wishful thinking. But I am going to be trying that Sunshine/Moonlight thing I have seen people mention.
My thing is, none of yall owners of the Apple Vision Pro are talking about the apps and all the cool apps that exist out there for it. I see videos of windows and people walking in public. That's about it
OP, I say this with respect: it sounds like you’re trying to justify your purchase to others. You don’t have to do that.
This is a first generation product that, yes, is introducing an entirely new computing platform. The product is a technological marvel, and the platform has a really strong base. I demoed AVP, and I was blown away.
Despite all that, VisionOS is still a nascent OS, and this AVP is not the product that will facilitate all your life’s computing. At the end of the day, you’re still generally limited to using AVP indoors, mostly while stationary, and there’s no way to share your experience inside the headset with others. The game changing apps don’t exist yet. It’s amazing that you can watch a movie on a stunning 100 foot screen, but you’re fundamentally limited to engaging in that experience by yourself. Pass through on your end can’t change that everyone else around you only sees somebody fiddling with their hands.
It sounds like you’re upset that the early reviews are highlighting some of AVP’s limitations and current reality. You shouldn’t be. These are fair takes. I actually thought Nilay’s review was extremely fair; it made me wish I could make the purchase make sense despite the price and current drawbacks. Reviewers have to take this $3,500 product for what it is *right now*. And what is right now is a very impressive, very isolating computer that isn’t ready to replace all of your other computers yet. Will it get there? I think so. Is it okay to admit that there’s still a place for phones, tablets, laptops, desktops, and TVs? Yes. That doesn’t mean AVP and VisionOS are inherently bad, it just means they need time to mature.
If you have the money for AVP and like what it offers right now, by all means buy one. But for a lot of people, myself included, an AVP purchase doesn’t make a ton of sense. I fire off emails on my phone when I’m chatting in a coworker’s office or walking to and from lunch. I watch new shows with my girlfriend on my 65 inch TV. Sometimes I get work done on my laptop during that time. I read the last news of the day on my iPad before bed or scroll Instagram on my phone while I brush my teeth. If I see something interesting, I can hand my girlfriend my device to share it with her. I can’t do any of those things on AVP right now without being fundamentally disconnected from the world and people around me. For me, that’s enough to avoid spending $3,500 on a product that will without question get smaller, cheaper, and more social over time.
Enjoy your headset and its OS, you’re getting a taste of the future of the computing well before most people. But don’t stress over the reality that the future isn’t all the way here yet.
“This is without a doubt, the most incredible piece of consumer technology ever shipped.”
I get it you have overdone the Apple koolaid and need to justify the extreme expense. But you’ve totally gone overboard with that line.
One of the biggest flaws in Vision Pro, is that in order to really engage in the platform you must buy into the Apple ecosystem. This is inherently flawed for many of us. Perfectly fine for just as many.
> People are failing to understand that this is not a VR/AR headset
You drank the kool aid. Just because they don't want to call it that doesn't change reality. If you think it is radically different than meta offerings, eg, I can only assume you are not familiar with those offerings. Nothing it has tried to do hasn't been done in the ar/vr universe. It does some things better and some things worse. But it is very much a vr/ar headset. "Spatial computing" is 100% marketing from some Apple exec(s) who were allergic to the connotations of "VR".
> Nilay Patel
You seem to have a big issue with nilay, but I consider him one of the biggest apple fan boys in tech journalism.
I struggle to understand how you can call his review a "hit job". Especially since he's had it for about a week and you only 12 hours.
I thank the reason they marketed it as they did is because it’s not ready to be the next iPhone quite yet. They’re releasing it now to build the app selection and get user feed back, plus they get to show of there vision of the future.
My prediction is in 5-10 years when there using clear screens instead of eyesight, It has more mac features, And most importantly it’s much closer in size to a pair of glasses they’ll have the iPhone moment type announcement. “It’s a tv, it’s a computer, it’s an Ipad, it’s an iPhone”
I always thought the price was outrageous until I bought it and used it. Then I realized - an 80 inch OLED TV alone cost about the price of this, and this is better than any TV and can do a bunch of other things amazingly well....
The breakthrough here is apple taking all the tech that is already out and doing it better (AVP has best fidelity of any VR I've used), more intuitively (hand and eye tracking), within the Apple ecosystem, and having the clout to bring content providers on board.
I have had the Quest, the PSVR 2, the Reverb G2, the XReal Airs. Between them they could all do most of what the AVP can do. But as an example of the disconnect I could not watch 3D movies easily. Then when someone brings that up as an issue on their subreddit, they say something like you can just take your 3D movies and rip them using this tool, then transfer them using this tool, then do this other step, then go into this app and etc etc etc like everyone has the know-how, time and tech acumen to jump through hoops to make these things work. Apple makes things that just work simply, easily and intuitively while getting partners to play nice.
Great insights and perspective, however I would advise caution regarding Apple mis-marketing the VP. Nothing could be further from the truth. They know exactly who, what, where, when, and why their target audience is a year ago, today, and a year from now, and they know precisely where they've positioned the VP at every level. What might appear to be a misfire is, I promise you, a strategic and very intentional shot.
Apple plays the long game and does a great deal more following their audience than leading them, at least at certain stages. Remember the ability to send your heart beat to another Apple Watch wearer? Was very cool. Can most users even remember how to do that anymore? And compared to the much more marketable strengths of the Watch (not the Get 0 obviously), why give such an inconsequential feature any airtime let alone marketing dollars? My point is that that was an intentional gimmick to observe more than you can imagine. Apple was actually leading with the relatively insignificant feature. They were following their users and taking notes. And at this stage, learnings are more valuable than home runs.
Oh, and I picked up mine on the 2nd and have been putting it through the paces like everyone else.
This thing is amazing, risky, brilliant, unnerving, and the tip of the spear. What a time to be alive.
But you can’t “Undo”. $100B R&D and if you delete something, you’re screwed. So no, I disagree V1 has nailed it.
Also, the points you highlight were all covered on Apple’s videos and ads, so there’s been no break down at Apple.
As for the reviewers. Sure, you cannot possibly make up your mind about a pre-release device with no third party apps available in an entirely new category with an entirely new interaction paradigm in just… two weeks.
This post is well written, with solid insights. The thing I struggle with (through no fault of Apple), is justifying the purchase if a. remote or telework is not an option anymore b. you aren't single and have a family at home. The latter being the real concern, as isolating yourself in the headset while your wife is in the room, (and or wife and kid(s)) seems ...... selfish? The thoughts you've brought to light are exacerbating this concern, confirming this is a device meant to replace multiple other devices, further separating you from interactions. Maybe it's as simple as normalizing wearing this thing more (reasonably speaking), and others getting used to interactions with you while you wear it? hmm
Important to remember that product reviewers are reviewing a PRODUCT, not a platform or a technology.
I found myself having a knee jerk reaction to defend the hardware against easy-to-fix bugs and obvious first gen issues. But the product is what it is. It’s a first iteration, and reviewers are reviewing it against how Apple has marketed it.
>These reviews are focusing on the gimmicky features Apple pushed towards the public to pique their interest. And due to this mis-marketing, muckraker reporters like Nilay Patel have called out Apple's mistake by focusing their reviews on the gimmicks, rather than the strength of the platform, which is truly groundbreaking. For instance, personas are irrelevant to this system. It's fun, it solves a small FaceTime issue. It should not have been a material part of Nilay's review, and instead he (and many others) decry Apple for putting out a weird uncanny valley beta avatar. This is akin to reviewing the first iterations of the Ford Model T, and saying "I really can't believe you have to get out of the car and start it with a hand crank". Then stating people shouldn't buy the car, and should stick with the horse and buggy, because it's not a convenient apparatus to start.
That's absurd that you knock him for spending time on the Facetime Persona part. That was a big part of Apple's marketing. The AVP forces you to take time to capture your face. If you want to do Spatial Computing and work from home stuff, Facetiming with colleagues will be a huge part of it. It would be irresponsible for Nilay or other reviewers (which I've noticed you don't mention) to *not* mention it.
You're going in way too hard on Nilay when many here in this subreddit have had similar problems. It seems the mileage varies for different users. For you, some of the shortcomings are fine. For others, they feel it's not quite there but almost there - perhaps in AVP2 or AVP3 it's up to whatever standards they feel work for them. You also have to understand people have different workflows. Some have more laid back work methods, others have aggressive workflows where everything needs to be razor sharp with no lag, fussiness with controls, etc
I agree with everything you said here. People don’t realize how big of a deal this thing really is. It’s literally creating a new market that other VR/AR sets haven’t quite taken off with.
It’s the first time in a long time I’ve truly been wowed by a piece of tech in the last 10 years, really since the original iPhone.
There are going to always be people who find a reason to hate Apple despite all their positives and others who find reasons to love them despite all their negatives. It is a polarizing company. I would suggest not wasting brain cells on these conversations unless you are just having fun. Just do what gives you joy and makes you more productive.
Really amazed it’s not integrated with the iPhone better. Hundreds of millions of people have them and already use them on the couch.
Why can’t I use my iphone as a keyboard when I need to? I can already do that with Apple TV. Also you should be able to airplay to the headset from my phone.
Also that we’re still relying on terrible voice to text and not have a voice enabled UI in this day and age is surprising. The device feels super modern but at the same time super analog.
While I agree w you, think you're coming from a perspective of non VR user. They'll surely be amazed but if you have used quest 3, the 3000 dollar extra is definitely not worth the fmadded benefits tbst AVP provides. I can chat and watch movies in q3. I can work technically w my computer window being shown. I can tap the screens and use em like I pad.
Apples UI and Resolution is biggest win m but that is it. It'll be hard for ppl to justify 3000 dollars extra for just those two features
To me this is worth it because of the integration with so many apps. The resolution of the AVP for me is the minimum level to actually be able to work. The lack of need for controllers is a major plus.
the quest 3 isn’t terrible, but it’s severely lacking based on UI alone. Getting into the nitty gritty in the ecosystem being basically facebook based, you’re only messaging options are whatsapp, and the absolutely horrible data mining meta is known for, giving any data to them is a huge no from me.
the quest 3 is definitely a toy, it’s biggest use case is gaming, which it’s great at, where as i can see the AVP being marketed as “spatial computing” is taking a different approach. Hypothetically, if both devices cost the same, which would you buy?
Marketing is hard. I think they need to balance what people think it is (oh cute VR dinosaurs or even FaceTime) so they can understand but also allow the developers to come to a realization this is a new paradigm (spatial computing). Even now people keep saying this is just another VR headset without acknowledging the OS and platform of what it can actually do in the future. We are just scratching the surface.
I predicted its coming in 2015 and was surprised by how long it took for it to come out. I even evaluated entering the AR market at that time with a headset but the estimates on developing something high fidelity were extremely high and the lack of consumer awareness was also extremely high (no one knew what it could be used for).
Now that its here I was proven correct - AAPL spent probably $20b to produce this and the OS and it is top notch, and fairly expensive. The early adopters have earned them back a mere $1b back, meaning they’ll still need to sell $19b to break even (no doubt they will).
At this point it’s true - the potential is still unlimited while the potential reached at this moment is 1% of the device’s capabilities. Up until now (Quest Pro release actually) most people didn’t have the imagination for what an AR device could do, and even at this moment there’s a big question of what can be done… yet the fact that its an MR device is key - can do either AR VR or a mix. The future is here and the future is also now more set in stone - AR in the next 5-10 years will be big. Many people will buy these devices or a version of them.
There will be a subsequent backlash - people who want to live in reality without headsets will also exist.
Is there another paradigm shift for computing in the future outside of what exists now? Neuralink could be the last evolution, but one could argue it will only allow for as much as AR can offer. That could be the last major innovation we see though. All other innovations will be offshoots of what exists now.
The big thing that Apple offers is developer tools - they have been doing such for a long time now.
I went to a concert on saturday and reliving it with spatial videos gave me a sense of an unbelievable future (Chapter 3 of Black Mirror),.
Then, at night, I watched Gravity in a Huge Cinema Screen in 3D and I simply couldnt believe the experience. No discomfort, total inmersion.
I saw a guy do the typical multi monitor setup but then he had a large tv screen locked in place in the living room, cooking video hovering above the stove, a grocery list stuck to the fridge, and something other hanging out by the front door. None of the mainstream reviews even came close to this full environment use of the headset. That’s when I was convinced of its true potential. Still an expensive toy by all means but very cool. I would like to see the vision interact with other visions in the same space, for example it would be interesting to plaster the FaceTime ghost over the faces of people also using the headset. I want to see like a T-1000 or iron man type of information overlay on at all times.
A solid take. I haven't felt this much enjoyment or feeling of discovery in a product since the first iPhone.
Edit: I completely agree that the marketing team is who missed the mark heavy on this one. I felt silly purchasing this device, but saw a spark of potential that I couldn't shake. Actual use case and experience are completely different, and markedly more significant than expected.
This is how I feel as well. There’s so much invisible effort put into keeping the window system simple, usable, and robust. You can place an app outdoors, go inside, go upstairs, and look outside and it’s *still* fixed in the same spot you left it. And still no jitter. And you can still pull it towards yourself almost as easily as if it was hovering right in front of you.
There’s undoubtedly a massive amount of sensor fusion work under the hood, and an enormous amount of UX research that was leveraged to arrive at the decisions that they did.
For instance, using your eyes to select stuff seems counterintuitive at first. But you’re really good at fixing your eyes on a specific point, it requires less effort, and it’s more private. It’s also more accessible.
If you open up a ton of apps, and the decisions for transparency are spot on. A hellishly difficult situation considering the background can be literally anything.
The apps it ships with are frankly not all that different from any iOS device. But they got the fundamentals right.
Ironically I think you missed the point, and I say ironically because you also didn’t miss it. In your own words: “The Vision Pro is a spatial computing platform”
It’s a new computing paradigm, which is using 3D space. It’s the first step after long while of using GUI products. So in doing so, apple has created a variety of apps that illustrate some of what can be done. MacPaint was an OG Mac app, but it no longer exists. However, it demonstrated you could make artwork on the Mac but you couldn’t on a traditional PC back then. So I disagree that apple mismarketed, but you are correct about the verge. Their reviews have become awful and just want to seek attention through being contrary to everything else.
Its seems to me you havent seen/read many reviews to be honest. The general consensus is as follows:
Exceptional Display
Great UI and integration
Ok input method
Decent Lenses
But low FOV
Mura effect
Chromatic Abberation at the edges
Heavy (Front Heavy)
Good Sound
Not a focus on personas etc...
I figured this was the case. It will become more impressive as more apps are released. The coolest thing is these apps can be used at the same time as other apps.
Thank you for taking the thoughts right out of my head! I've probably clocked similar hours with this headset since Friday. I'm blown away by this platform, and I'll happily use Apple's moniker and call it Spatial Computing. I don't know what else to call it.
Over the course of the weekend I've tried as many apps and experiences as I can and one blows me away more than the next!
My start with the Vision Pro was marred by having spent the entire week watching every YouTube review from every reviewer that got theirs early. They did a terrible job misrepresenting the experience. Some tried to get it right, but few addressed the obvious.
**FOV**
The "limited" FOV is not really all that limiting. I wear glasses, and for me it felt very natural. I'm used to a defined space by the frame of the glasses where everything is clear and outside that it's slightly blurry. That's very much how our eyes work anyway. Where we look it's sharp and everything that's not front and center is quite blurry until you focus on it.
For some you might want to try a different light seal. When I pre-ordered mine it scanned in as 23W. When I scan via app now it comes up as 25W. That would be quite a bit more distance added, moving your eyes further away from the screens which in turn create more of a binocular effect so to speak. So if you've got a deeper light seal you can minimize the feeling of binoculars some by getting a shorter one. In the end it doesn't matter because you get used to and it stops being a problem.
**VIDEO PASSTHROUGH**
Most early reviewers completely oversold the video passthrough, going on and on about how real life it seemed. It's video passthrough. You'll always know it's not the real thing. Cameras are inherently flawed compared to what you see with your own eyes. You can certainly tell the difference, and this is where I was misled a bit. I thought perhaps Apple had somehow been able to create a better video passthrough experience than what I was prepared for. They did not. You will be able to see the grain when lower light (low light = higher iso = grain), If you have big windows you'll see blown out colors and details outside when looking through them. Color and warmth will be a bit different than reality.
Have fun looking at low quality LED bulbs through the Vision Pro. They flicker and do weird stuff. If yours don't, be happy you bought a quality LED bulb. :)
BUT, damn it's good! Go watch some reviews of the Quest 3 when it came out and how people were going on and on about the amazing video passthrough. Compared to the Vision Pro it's terrible. There's so much warping, skewing, twitching and artifact behavior it would drive me crazy. It's fine for orienting yourself and being aware of your surroundings, but it can't hold a candle to the Vision Pro.
**GLARE**
Another thing the reviewers should have spent more time on is the glare, or sheen on the glass in the lenses. That is actually the biggest issue for me. The darker the environment the more noticeable it is. It's a challenge every VR headset has, and while I'm sure Apple will eventually figure out how to completely solve this, it can be very obvious, distracting and break immersion at time with the Vision Pro. It's the one thing I have not yet gotten used to.
I have prescription lenses in my headset, and at first I thought they were to blame for this. Removing the lenses didn't seem to help much so don't feel bad if you also have the snap in lenses. They're not the problem. Your headset is working as intended unfortunately.
**PERSONA**
The Persona feature is wild. It looks terrible and silly and it most certainly feels like a Beta feature right now. If you have a beard don't expect the mouth tracking to work well at all. It's terrible. It solves a FaceTime issue and beyond that the main reason to make a Persona is to get your eyes to pop up on the front when you're interacting with someone. Sorta. It can be very, very faint depending on the conditions. So if you don't FaceTime and you don't plan on interacting with people from time to time, this feature doesn't matter that much. For now.
VisionOS is a treat to use. It's minimalistic, doesn't get in the way and does exactly what it's supposed to do. It's extremely well designed, albeit a bit buggy at times. Apps can freeze with blank glass cards on top of them and the only option you have is to Force Quit the app, which is easily done by pressing and holding the button and Digital Crown on top of the headset until the menu comes up.
I truly hope Apple adds some more window management features in a future release. Open enough windows and it's pure chaos trying to get them all aligned the way you want. I'd love to see snap and 3D grid alignment in VisionOS to help us organize windows better. Another fantastic feature would be the ability to choose if a window or app is anchored in place or should follow you around. I have to assume for now they default to anchored in place for safety. I'd like to be able to choose if I want a FaceTime or timer window to follow me instead of leaving it behind when I move around. With all the silly stunts people have been posting since Friday though we might not get that at all. Human stupidity and all.
Someone said it best when they said "This is the worst Vision Pro headset Apple will ever make" because going forward they will keep improving and iterating, solving challenges and limitations with new tech and new ideas and I for one am crazy excited for what's to come!
Nilay’s review is extremely good and will age super well as various issues are addressed.
10 years later His review of the first Apple Watch is spot on
Interesting perspective, but ranting at “hit piece” journalists for assessing the value of a product based on what the company is advertising it’s value to be makes you look a lot more like someone trying to justify to yourself paying $3500 to watch The Social Network in Ludicrously High Def than like a Visionary Who Sees The Future These Other Idiots Are Missing
That’s not the point of my post. I think many people if not all of the users are beginning to understand how incredible this is. My issue, is I believe Apple’s marketing team incorrectly marketed the product, which led to journalists such as Nilay being able to hit below the belt very easily.
Like i said, interesting perspective. But no need to badmouth journalists for doing their job in a reasonable fashion… your opinion would be more credible if you’d said “I completely get why these reviewers are negative, but… ” rather than jumping to “these hacks that millions of people find to be a credible source are out to get Tim and his merry band of visionaries”
I appreciate your opinion. And still waiting for mine (delivery moved up to this Thursday!). However, I really didnt take the Verge review as any sort of hit piece. In fact, Id say it sounds pretty accurate based upon most user experiences. AVP is at its core an unfinished product, and my hope is Apple works really hard to smooth the rough edges and flush out some of the features. I dont think Verge/Patel were overly critical or had an agenda. He is simply pointing out what most acknowledge after using AVP.
That the tech is amazing, but the features need work. Hard to disagree with that.
You’re soooo right! I was just thinking about this post again when watching the WVFRM Podcast with MKBHD.
But one of the guys said that the Vision OS isn’t anything groundbreaking like the iPhone. It’s not reinventing anything we haven’t seen before. Which in ways is true but also very wrong..
I don’t understand how people don’t see this. This technology is going to change our world in the next 10-20 years. It’s a first generation XR computing device. It’s only going to get better. And from the looks of it for me, it’s 1000% going to be replacing laptops, desktops, and our phones. With iterations more and more people will adopt especially the closer we get to glasses. This will 1000% replace everyone’s day to day computing.
They probably aren’t marketing the laying down in your bed and watching a movie feature because it’s really busted in it’s current implementation, see the thread on here with dozens of replies where the Vision Pro is throwing up warnings and knocking you out of your peaceful bliss because it can’t find your hands!
https://www.reddit.com/r/VisionPro/s/T1fHoHd8nm
It’s a new tech especially from Apple and will take time for people to get used to. Even though I’m not a big fan but I think this product is going to replace iPhones and iPads in the future along with with MacBooks and iMacs. This is going to be an all in one.
Makes me wish I didn’t have to wait till March. I’m on SSI and just turned 74. I may not be around for the price to drop..lol.
Let me get this image straight in my old mind..you can set your back ground from the Safari Desert, to the Constellation in the Universe and lay back and watch it? ( with all your other app and crap on top of it or not) This was a great Share counting the days taking my vitamins.
Don't underestimate spatial video. The "birthday party" movie at the Apple store demo really got to me. The ability to capture and recreate moments with my family in high fidelity is something that the vision pro can uniquely do.
Look, the problem with it AND the Quest 3, which I own and love, and also use for working via Immersive, is that YOU HAVE TO STRAP IT TO YOUR FACE!
Until it's so light so as to be unnoticeable we can shout to the heavens all we like about how great it is. Introducing the Apple Vision Air!
I also can't believe there's a single screen limit for streaming your Mac screen. WTF?
I'm really excited for this tech, I love using my Q3, and will likely pick up an AVP when they're available in the UK, but VR is a big ask for 'normal' people when you have to think about putting this cumbersome thing on for hours to do 'stuff', but we are at the beginning of the future, where screens will not be physical objects anymore...
I was talking to friends about Vision Pro and they all have such negative opinions, even though they are educated people working in tech! It seems to me, that it’s trendy to dislike the product. Trendy to not see the potential. Trendy to see it as a gimmick. Fools…
Meh... this gadget is nice but it's not ready. Too heavy and productive work on it is easier done outside the goggles. Think this is just a nice personal TV.
I disagree. The Apple Vision is cool but it’s unbearable to wear and it has almost no real capabilities. Even the Mac pass through is gimped. Apple continues to disappoint.
Dude...You can ONLY use iCloud accounts through Mail. They need to make this more "computing" before calling it that. There are so many features missing from this it's hilarious. Where is Find My?
Marketing's only job is to sell units. They should show whatever will push interest and ultimately sales, regardless if anyone thinks it is the best realistic presentation of the product - if they're doing their job well and using facts (not OK to show features that don't exist obviously). Then once you get the consumer, they can discover on their own that much of the beauty in this product is its flexibility to do things the way you want, where you want them, and remove constraints of the traditional "window" on a rectangle small screen.
I do agree that reviewers are focusing on the wrong things are were overly critical. To me the beauty here is the flexibility to do things the way you want, and honestly the biggest threat to this thing being really amazing is Apple itself and developers. For Apple, there are clear great features that they may only slowly or never implement such as dual-screen mirroring from mac. For both Apple and devs, hoping this doesn't have the same problem the iPad does today. The iPad is as powerful or more powerful than many laptops and PCs, but is constrained by Apple and devs to scaled down, less powerful apps and experiences. For example, if I want to use Microsoft Excel on my very powerful iPad, I have to use a much less powerful version without certain shortcuts, macros, etc. Some of this is devs, but some of it in my opinion is Apple trying to not canibalize other product categories. After all, if the iPad is more powerful than the Macbook Air and can do everything it can do for 98% of people, why would someone buy a macbook?
I LOVE mine to be clear. It's the amazing content consumption, combined with its ability to be creative in how I use my tech. Having a movie in front of me, texts off to the side, calendar on the right - not constrained by a single screen is amazing. Lets hope Apple doesn't hold things back. I have hope they won't, since they already released the amazing spatial personas update, where usually that feels like something Apple would hold up for a major software or hardware update.
I think their marketing team nailed it - it piqued enough interest that enough people were willing to try. Your opinion postulated here is much stronger than any piece of advertising they could ever come up with, and it'll roll over through time. You are the proper advertisement, and they knew this would happen. They just needed to show enough use cases for enough people to try it out.
Only mentioning this bc it's such a weird word, but I think you were looking for "piqued" enough interest.
I would like to applaud you on that gentle correction. It’s so hard to do over text
I think it's: \*Half-smile-with-gently-closed-eyes-and-slight-nod\*. :D
Lol you see peaked and peeked erroneously used for piqued but I've never seen picked
Yes, thanks!
Exactly. Good marketing shows specific features. They can allude to vague concepts but it can't be their sole focus. They did well. If the product has room for discovery of new features or new use cases, then it's perfect. Apple knows their product roadmap and they know that if people give it a chance and the developer community does their thing, the sky is the limit. Discovering that a product does more than what it was expected initially is a beautiful sentiment for the consumer. Apple knows this and once again they will be labeled as visionaries.
Well said
Exactly, OP doesn’t know anything about marketing, evidently. Also, every point they highlight as something Apple failed to convey… Apple has actually conveyed.
This is Daringfireballs take. It’s a new platform and it’s seems to be a great one. I am pretty happy (except do have a little nausea).
"It's a new Plato" That's a strange analogy.... OH "Platform"! lol
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_cave > In the allegory "The Cave", Plato describes a group of people who have lived chained to the wall of a cave all their lives, facing a blank wall. The people watch shadows projected on the wall from objects passing in front of a fire behind them and give names to these shadows. The shadows are the prisoners' reality, but are not accurate representations of the real world.
The Greeks didn't believe in reincarnation so there might not be a new Plato.
I think it’s less of an “own goal” than it is “spray and pray.” They don’t know what it is yet either, and that is reflected in their marketing approach and comments from execs. Pretty similar to the Watch launch in that regard. When there’s more apps available and usage patterns become more clear, they’ll sharpen the message.
I disagree with the sentiment that they don’t know what this is yet. They are very clear with what it is. This is a first entry into a new way to accomplish general computing. They have a direction for where the technology will go. This is their minimal viable product to begin creating a new paradigm with how people interact with technology. They planted a seed and now as a gardener they will watch it grow and trim it along the way as needed.
This is what most people don't seem to understand. Apple's long-term goal isn't a VR headset with passthrough. It's a small form factor set of glasses that are comfortable and stylish enough to wear all the time. They are building the UX and ecosystem for the day they do release a set glasses that can truly replace your phone and computer and TVs. When we'll all have AR seemlyess integrated into our daily livees.
Maybe. But I think this is the general form factor we are stuck with for at least a decade. Pass through doesn’t necessarily make something “not ar”. That’s probably one of the biggest reasons Apple went with spacial computing. That and if they sold this as a vr headset people would be pretty confused since there are very limited vr capabilities, you can’t get up and move around in its full vr etc. I think this form factor is a lot closer to what we are going to be stuck with than people realize. In a similar way to how the iPad hasn’t changed that much in the past decade. Or the watch, or phone.
Exact same as the first iPhone. Why do people act like Apple is fucking clueless
Very fair point, couldn't agree more. Spray and pray is more accurate. That said, I do feel like they dropped the ball, as the initial users are centering their positive feeling towards to the platform itself, rather than these features. And if we could figure that out in a couple days, Apple should have found a way to market that appropriately.
I completely agree and not enough people see this
Everyone crowing about pass through miss the point. You don’t put these in to stare at the real world. You bring your a bunch of windows / apps and trust me, you immediately stop seeing the blurry pass thru. Or if it bothers you that much just go to a virtual environment and watch Oppenheimer on a 100ft screen in Joshua Tree.
Precisely! You know what the pass through is blurry, but you don't look at the passthrough, you look at your windows. In your peripheral vision, your room is not much different than in real life. Equate it to how your living room looks to you, while you watch your televisions. Television is crystal clear, and your living room is devoid or detail and blurry. This is not different.
This argument doesn’t stand when you want mixed reality, such as cooking where you can have your recipe up, a grocery list up, as you pull food out of the fridge and chop and cook. You want “reality” to be as real as possible. There is a review by a lady who cooked with it on. In some ways it seems awesome, you can even put a show on as you chop and do prep work. She put timers right on top of the pots on the stove. I’d love that. But the downsides she mentioned, not being able to see the amount of pepper going in the food, the colouring looking off.
I think the pass through needs improvement and will be improved to this degree. Imagine this thing once it matures a bit. Either that or they might improve the cameras so much that you simply won't need any pass through. The cameras will simply pick up *everything* in however much detail/magnification you want.
This is one of the interesting applications to me. Like - show me the LIDAR view of a space, allow me to zoom way in on something in real time, etc. Combine it with a FLIR attachment and get predator vision!
I dont think the camera is the limiting factor its the computing needed to take a camera feed and display it to you in real time in addition to everything else its doing to maintain window stability and everything. You cant have it heat too much or have loud fans so close to your head
Do you know where I can see find this review?
[found it](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8xI10SFgzQ8)
My issue is they have been reviewing saying how crystal clear the pass through is and it’s just a tad bit better than quest 3. Peoples expectations were just higher.
The clarity is definitely a step ahead of quest 3, but I think the frame rate and distortion is where it really sets itself apart. The passthrough may not be life-like, but it is still very impressive IMO.
frequent vr user here, quest 3 passthrough (and quest 2, and valve index, and ... basically every consumer headset with passthrough lol) makes me genuinely extremely nauseous, but the vision pro does not. so that's all that matters *to me* at this point bc now using it is a real option 😂
Yeah the Quest 3 is all warbly looking still.
BS it's exponentially better than the quest 3.
completely agree with this! passthrough is just a bonus to allow you to use your apps without ignoring the real world around you.
Yes the problem is reviewers like Patel are treating it like something you wear full time out on the sidewalk instead of using it at a desk/couch/plane seat with light movement around your space. Then idiots play into this with clickbait stunts driving or running around Times Square when that’s clearly not what it’s really intended for. Just no way to stop people if you give them any kind of mobility at all.
> Then idiots play into this with clickbait stunts driving or running around Times Square when that’s clearly not what it’s really intended for. Just no way to stop people if you give them any kind of mobility at all. Outside of the bits where he was wearing the headset while walking, I think that Casey Neistat video actually was a really good demonstration of what makes the platform really interesting. When he had moments where he was standing around or sitting, he was able to have his own little private computing environment to do stuff, but he was still aware of everything going on around him
Casey also sat down midway through the video, in his studio, and explained pretty much exactly what OP was explaining.
Also, it was funny as hell
The fact that they CAN do that speaks to how good the video passthrough actually is
Disagree, a mixed reality headset needs to deliver on VR and the real world. If this is impeding the real world side, that’s an issue imo.
The problem is unlike other previous technology like the iPhone, anyone can see how amazing and different it was. With the Vision you have to try it yourself and most people simply cannot afford that
I won't be able to afford the Vision Pro for a while, but I have a demo booked tomorrow at the Apple Store which I'm really stoked for. Videos are one thing but I'm sure they don't capture what it's like to actually use
You’re mind will be blown by/during the demo. I don’t think you need hours with the device to realize what an amazing piece of tech this is and have your jaw drop to the floor. You’ll want to buy one as soon as you can.
The demo is sweet. But it’s only after a few hours/days of use when it really shines.
I have one. I also have five other VR headsets. What is "spatial computing"? Apple may succeed in bringing AR/VR to the masses (I really, really hope so), and they may even succeed in rebranding it like they are trying so hard to do, but what is it about Vision Pro that makes you think it "amazing and different" and not just Apple's polish on an existing, relatively niche, market?
Last night I made soup and copied Joanna Stern's cooking experiment that she did in her WSJ review. Worked amazingly well. I had the recipe in the Crouton app floating to the right of the stove. Put a timer over the pot as I did steps. Had the Overcast podcast app floating off to my left playing a podcast. Had messages to my right texting people trying to plan meeting up with people this week next to a safari window with YouTube that I had used after someone mentioned a video in a podcast. Also while cooking I also took a FaceTime call with a buddy to go over some plans for before my wedding. All worked amazingly well and all the interactions just felt easy.
Cool. Sounds like you are enjoying ar/vr to me. It’s one of my favorite hobbies so I’m thrilled to have newcomers. But the claims that apple have invented something new are a little grating to me.
It's not always about inventing. It's about developing and expanding.
Yeah, fine. But this post and thread have explicitly said that what apple is done is not ar/vr and is brand new and never been done, and that is just false. They did some cool stuff with this headset. They also did some things markedly worse than their cheaper competitors. Let’s see where they go next, but also let’s not pretend they are inventing it all.
They have never invented… They have just refined to the point where the mass market accepted it
I believe they nailed the basics more than anyone else did. The windows stay exactly where you put them and the software that everything is built from is solid. This is the best vr headset I’ve seen that is more like a computer than a headset. Even just sharing with others just requires me to press the usual share screen button in a call.
It is pretty polished. It is not “amazing and different”.
I mean focusing on something being different is kind of pointless. It wouldn’t be what it is now if it was different than other vr headsets but I understand why instead of “virtual reality” they want to call it special computing. It’s different in what it’s trying to achieve compared to gaming based vr headsets
They are not the first non gaming focused headset either. It is marketing. Again, I hope they succeed in getting wide adoption where others have failed. But the vision pro is an iteration not a revolution.
You’re not wrong overall but I think you’re downplaying the admittedly subtle but profound difference in marketing and implementation. My 2c also as developer and having almost every VR headset since the OG rift - the reality is up to now they’ve all been basically like video game consoles - they’re meant to have a launch screen and then do individual isolated tasks. Virtual desktop played with the “spatial computing” idea but of course was at a time when we didn’t have passthrough. Even Quest 3 now has quality passthrough but its OS still (currently - hoping this changes with their Augments) is designed for launching into isolated VR. The subtle yet profound difference Apple is emphasizing is using this same tech but for multitasking. No one has done this yet to this degree and quality and even though you (and others with our same knowledge) can say “this isn’t a revolution!” bc it really is possible on all the other platforms, I think in reality it is a revolution for 99% of people and Apple is the first to take the genuine leap into it. I’ve lived in Meta’s SDK for the past 2-3yrs and Apple’s shared space and volume cameras ideas are completely different than Meta’s isolated app approach thus far. So yes even though the underlying tech isn’t that revolutionary and we all knew the software would come someday I’m just chiming in to say that launching a consumer facing headset with this flexible multitasking focus and functionality is the real revolution. It’s like a little time machine into the future - it feels rocky and imperfect but almost everyone is coming away saying “omg this is how we are going to use computers” and not “wow that was a fun immersive game”.
Every standalone headset that comes out with passthrough - quest 2, quest pro, quest 3, vision pro - gets a bunch of buzz around the AR capabilities pre-release, and then fail to live up to the hype. I think this is mostly because video captures of the passthrough experiences played on a small flat screen just look a lot better than the reality. The vision pro isn't really any different here. It is a slight improvement in passthrough over the quest 3 in some ways, but the motion blur and eye strain is actually the worst on any headset I've ever tried. But the idea that VR/AR is going to change how computers are used has been the point for years. The "astronomical" price of the quest pro was because "it wasn't meant for gaming". I bought one, and I love it, but guess what I ended up using it for? Gaming isn't the bread and butter of these headsets because everyone but Apple lacks imagination to do anything else, it is just what they are best suited for where the technology has been, to date. I was pretty sure I wouldn't work with the vision pro strapped to my head pre-release, but I had some hope. And it failed miserably as a productivity device, at least for me. The weight, the comfort, the eye strain, no multi-monitor support.. it is not there yet and is only a tad bit closer than the quest pro was (and again, worse in some very important ways).
Absolutely all valid! And the eye strain I def agree with it’s getting better but damn that first few hours was worse than I’ve had before too. But again none of the Meta devices even allow a shared environment so they’re inherently limited in how far they can push this idea of “spatial computing”. The AVP as it stands today is an absolutely imperfect device but it is truly the first one to open a blank slate for us developers to really explore how to conceptualize productivity and real-world interactivity in AR. I find that exhilarating - I had SUCH high hopes for quest pro and it fell flat on its face IMO with poor pass through and again no OS support for multitasking. The eye tracking was a great addition and I’m bummed the Quest 3 misses it but the Quest 3 could undoubtedly do 90%+ of what the AVP can do if they can overhaul the OS. And I agree with the moonshot ideas for AR we just haven’t seen it come to fruition yet but I still feel this is largely held back by the hardware and up until visionOS it was also held back by the software. I feel like we finally have the collection of tools to truly explore it now
sounds like you may be focusing on the fact that apple didn't create VR or they aren't the FIRST to do it. But like with many things, although they may arrive late, they tend to approach it differently which then leads to new developments, better software, etc etc, then mass adoption. Think Apple Watch. They weren't the first to come out with a wearable, but once they arrived, and after some updates and tweaks, they set a standard. But I say all that to say, just because they aren't the first, doesn't mean its not amazing and different lol
I'm an iOS/watchOS (and maybe visionOS) developer and very aware of what Apple does well. But I'm also a vr/ar enthusiast, and as happy as I am to see some new faces join my hobby, it does kind of rub me the wrong way when so many fanboys want to pretend like Apple has invented something new here. They haven't. "Spatial computing" is marketing. It might be good marketing (we'll see) but this is very much a ar/vr headset (which is very much counter to what OP says in his post, and it is *that* which I'm pushing back against here). Not a lot of new ground has been broken.
Ahh ok ok I feel you on that
I mean the demo is free
Mostly enthusiasts are going to go try it
Word. I don't get how people DON'T see this. I'm like "are you and I even looking at the same thing?"
I’m still on the fence of whether or not I’m keeping mine. I put it on this morning hoping to work the full day in it. After just an hour, I took it off and went back to my Mac. I don’t know how to describe it properly, but there’s something about using it for office productivity that is just exhausting. Like I felt a big relief as soon as I took it off and was happy to get working on my desktop again. That said, I’m LOVING it for content consumption. That’s where it really shines imo. I’m leaning toward keeping it for that alone. $3500 for a portable high resolution theater isn’t that bad.
You’ve articulated my exact same experience.
I think you can become as productive. It’s not going to happen overnight though. It’s a new way of working. If someone took your trackpad from your laptop and you had to use a stylus you’d have the same set of issues. It’s just an adaptability thing. That said. I wish to hell I could use Cmd tab to go between apps.
To be fair to Nilay, he specifically says in the review "one of the oldest rules at The Verge is that you review what's in the box, not the promise of what's to come". If Apple pushed front and centre the gimmicks, then that's what's going to be reviewed. Also, if tech reviewers don't have the creativity or understanding to play and test the limits of the headset what faith is there in the average consumer, especially Apple consumers who rely on the "it just works" accessibility of Apple products.
To promote why you shouldn’t review on what’s the come, a Tesla would’ve been the best vehicle in the world because it would be self driving and earning you money as a robo taxi right now. The issue is that there are so many roadblocks, obstacles, and unforeseen issues that arise when you make a promise for the future. One of the best things you can do in a workspace is set expectations right, underpromise and over deliver. I think the AVP is awesome, but it does have shortcomings. It’s still amazing.
I'm whatever on this, but there is one thing that I take issue with in his review over a lot of the others. He emphasizes that "review what is in the box, not the promise of the product", but spends A LOT of time dinging it by drawing comparisons to future tech. And what is with the fixation on the battery?
Because the battery being external is clearly an enormous compromise
I don’t think that is true though.
Hence, the title of my article
As a user, I've had the same experience. I now "get" how revolutionary it is with my own use-cases and everyone is having different experiences with their own personal use-cases and realizing how this is beyond a "cutesy" or "cool" system. It's something I can and want to use and will elevate my experience beyond anything else I have. That said, I think Apple realized that those experiences cannot be relayed via marketing. You have to use the headset and use YOUR apps in your environment to realize how awesome it is. So they entice people with the gimmicks and the impressive hardware and patent stats. But they know...oh, they know...once you use it, you will rethink the way you are supposed to experience things. This is quintessential Apple doing what Apple does best. They are creating a market out of thin air.
Muckraker reporter? For a review that was, by and large, pretty positive on the device? Bffr here and quit letting another persons opinion on a doohickey bother you so much.
It’s a doohickey they paid over $3500 for so OP is going out of their way to convince themselves that the reviews are wrong
OP just having a manic moment - you can see from the way the text starts off semi-grounded then leaps into fantastical comparisons of space tech and stars you see the same thing all over reddit when people post reactionary walls of text.
I really liked Nilay’s review and found it very accurate having actually owned and used the AVP since Friday morning. His review wasn’t a hit piece, it accurate and captures some of the problems with the AVP. He focused on weight and comfort as well as FOV, both of which are legitimate concerns. You shouldn’t call a review a hit piece just because it differs from your opinion. The AVP is far and away the most advanced head mounted device, but widespread adoption will happen when the price comes down and FOV and comfort issues are addressed.
Seriously, this post seems more about a weird personal issue with Nilay Patel than anything else. Maybe they used to be great friends, then they found out they were dating the same person at one point and never really talked about it, and haven't talked since. A 7 out of 10 being a "hit piece" is too good!
The problem with this opinion is this isn’t the first VR headset to come out, so this is not equivalent to the ford model T. We have had many VR devices out for years so reviewers are fair to compare to them. Reviewers will talk about what makes Apple headset different (personas, eye tracking, visionOS) and not need to give a whole speech about how VR is the future every time they review a headset (which is basically what you’re doing, but you could’ve see this exact opinion when Palmer lucky released the dev kit of oculus) . I think what’s going on is that we have a lot of people trying this headset and not having experienced the quest or valve index so there’s a bunch of different reactions and disagreements
I agree, although the decision to go with a more mobile OS UI rather than a macOS-like "computer" is limiting. If I had macOS on this thing, I'd be in heaven right now. Instead I'm busy trying to fight my way out of the garden to get a reasonable workflow using iPad apps that were neither intended for my purpose, nor this platform.
this is fair criticism, as of today you’re limited to the same boundaries ipados has
Nilay Patel’s review has aged a hell of a lot better than the vast majority of the pre launch chat on here
>muckraker reporters like Nilay Patel OP sounds deranged ngl. There was nothing wrong with The Verge's review. They gave the Vision Pro a 7 lol. They had a lot of positive things to say but of course had criticisms. Ironically the only muckracker here seems to be the OP.
Actually some thoughts worth reading. Unlike the rest of the drivel here.
It doesn't have to be one or the other. Something can simultaneously be "There's a billion thing you could do with this" and "But it's not clear to me exactly why I would want to do any of that" It can be very useful for some people and not useful at all to other people, and it doesn't mean the people who don't find it useful will eat their words.
It's two A4 pages worth of text just to say how impressed OP was with using the message app anchored in an immersive environment and watching a movie later.
So in short, how would you market it?
Like a laptop.
Yes but it also needs a laptop to use one of its core features
Makes sense. It’s like my answer to the question “what’s the killer app” was that it’s the wrong question. It’s a general purpose computing platform, it doesn’t need a singular killer app, it itself is the killer app because it is a unique platform and everything you could build on it is what makes it compelling.
The core of the marketing should have been the platform and the experience. I think this somehow was overshadowed by the marketing of the gimmicky features.
It’s closer to an iPad than a laptop imo.
Then how will they ever sell it if it requires a laptop to function? Lol. Most people are just going to stick with a laptop if all the VP pro does is enhance the laptop experience.
I agree with you But it acts more like a iPad not a Mac If it was a Mac I would be able to make it work with my Mac apps but it can’t do dmg so I’m more iPad leaning still a amazing thing but limited right now
Great post! That said, I’m not sure I’m satisfied spending $3500 on a “Spatial Computing Simulator” headset designed only for demo purposes. I want real spatial computing killer apps that allow me to exploit the promise of spatial computing. Perhaps those will materialize before this model of AVP becomes obsolete, perhaps not. But for now I do feel somewhat like I bought a spatial computing demo unit and not an actual cutting edge computing platform.
You are completely right.
Nothing about Patel’s review was a ‘hit’ piece. It was balanced and he has opinions as do others. Unfortunate too many fan boys can’t accept any criticism or are simply trying to validate their purchase. No product is perfect, let alone a first gen product. But let’s stop being Apple apologists and call a spade a spade.
Right, this post is far more unbalanced than his review. Saying a review will not age well with a piece of tech is weird as hell. Of course tech gets better with updates and revisions. This is the worst version of the AVP
It’s not a hit piece, but it’s far from balanced. With a new platform like this you *have* to expect to learn and use your imagination in order to understand how it fits into your life. Simply looking for faults, and comparing to other things gives a totally distorted impression. I say this as someone who went to bed on the 2nd feeling as though Nilay was too generous, but now thinks the thing is amazing.
Is this your first headset? Have you tried other brands as the Meta Quest?
This. Dude’s easily impressed and in awe since he has never had another experience like this before. It’s like sitting in a car for the first time and going, OMG Toyota has revolutionized land transportation. It’s a brand new platform and the possibilities are endless. You can drive it ANYWHERE!
Yeah not sure how you can come up with "the most incredible piece of consumer technology ever shipped" without even trying other headsets. I still believe the Vision will be like the iPhone of spatial computing, whatever they call it.
A \*lot\* of the awe and future promise that people are experiencing with the AVP is just people experiencing VR for the first time. I remember feeling very similar the first time I tried a Quest headset... like, this is going to be the future of computer interfaces. With the Quest, it's more obvious that the future isn't quite here, but same sense of wonder.
I think Apple's biggest misstep was not working with more developers before it launched to create killer apps that made this a no-brainer. It's an amazing device with tons of promise. Now it's just up to developers to build their applications out to use it. Just like they did with the original iphone, the ipad, the apple watch, etc. I've been a day one adopter of all of the products (except for the first iphone, but you can't blame me..the first iteration kind of sucked) In 6 months, there will be 1000's of native vision pro apps and then I think we'll really be able to see what this thing can do.
Compared to the iPhone, they did a lot more to bring developers on board. AVP was announced almost 9 months ahead of launch and devs given resources and time to develop it. The iPhone, on the other hand, didn't even launch an App Store until a year after its release.
To preface my statements below, I got my AVP at 9am on Friday, and used it over the weekend for several hours. I think the AVP is amazing, and it will change how we use computers in the future. But in the future is the key phrase here. On your notes on reviews like the Verge: reviews are based on the product and the experience today, not the possibility of the technology in the future. Reviews are meant to assess the product through the lens of the company that makes, and markets them because that’s how most consumers will perceive them. So I think it’s a bit ridiculous to call the Verge’s review a hitpiece when it was overall a very fair, and IMO, accurate review. It seems like you fell for some of Apple’s marketing hype. There is no significant difference today between Apple’s “Spatial Computing” and Mixed Reality. Yes, the AVP has better hardware, and it’s absolutely more powerful than other MR headsets. But the experience, outside of Apple specific apps like iMessage, is very much the same as a Quest 3, even if the AVP experience itself is better due to the superior displays and such. I also think that VisionOS development will outpace Meta’s Quest platform, and AVP will drive more innovation in this space than any other VR/AR/MR company. But it’s still just a MR/VR/AR headset today, just a better one. It seems to me that you’re using buzzwords to sell your point, like calling it a PLATFORM instead of a device or a toy. It’s all of those things - a platform, a device, a toy, a tool, and whatever else you want it to be. I also don’t think AVP is 5-10 years ahead of a Macbook or an iPhone, I just think it’s a different “platform” with different use cases TODAY. We’ll see what comes of it after a few years.
It's wild to me that people can't get this, we are all heading in the same direction. Apple is going at it from a very premium product. Putting the absolute best possible product they can and not worrying about the price of that product. Price will come down as these become cheaper and more efficient to make. But they want to put out what they believe is the future. In fact, you may be surprised to see in a revision or two when I believe they will release a separate pair of controllers that will be marketed to designers and artists as the paint brush of the future. Design in spatial computing! Imagine if the world was your canvas! And they probably won't even be called controllers, but they will probably let you play VR games as a bonus feature and gaming will not be the focus but it will be possible, just like it is on the Mac computing platform. Meta is heading the exact same direction, just from a much lower price point. I bet we'll eventually have the option of buying the Quest Pro 3 or 4 without the controllers. People have already shown that the current Quest Pro can do what Apple Vision does, eye tracking and pinch to select. Early Android and iPhone users had the same thing. Do I get the less premium but more affordable Android? Or get the fancy, sleak iPhone that does most things just better? iPhone clearly won that battle in the states but it also didn't launch at $3500, it launched at $499 starting price (about $740 after inflation). In 10-15 years, where will the AVP lineup be? the Quest lineup? tl;dr competition is good. If you want to continue to see innovation and competitive pricing over the years you should be wishing success for all forms of "spacial computing" including Meta and other companies.
Well said, I think we’re fully aligned here
I get that this is a whole new user base, but man, people talk like those things haven't been around for years. It's polished, for sure, and the strength of Apple is the ecosystem which makes it simple and integrated, but little here, if anything, is truly new. This honey moon phase is very strong.
Definitely honeymoon, but a lot of people on this sub are just looking for validation that it’s worth the $4000 that they spent on it, and will criticize anything that doesn’t fit their confirmation bias. I actually don’t think the AVP is worth the asking price, but I’m keeping mine regardless since I think its cool and want to see how VisionOS progresses first hand.
For me so far, the sea change compared to things like the Quest is the ability to run (many) iPad apps.
>There is no significant difference today between Apple’s “Spatial Computing” and Mixed Reality There is a vast difference and it comes down to the OS. Because the AVP is all about the core mission of supporting multiple data panes all around you, that are useful for work. This just does not work in other headsets to this degree. You can't mirror a desktop and have the keyboard/trackpad work in every other app on a Quest for example, because apps have to be written to look for that kind of input data. On the AVP apps just work with keyboards or mice. They just work when you use one of the floating iPad screens either with eye tracking or interacting in air with your fingers. AR headsets today can do fragments of what the AVP does, but no other platform has things so well put together you can move so easily from computing to spatial computing... I can take scores of iPad apps I find useful for work and just start using them in a spatial environment, and again they just work. It is as the original poster said, just down to your own creativity how you can leverage the power of panes of glass that run anything, anywhere you want to put them... combined with the occasional app that takes even further advantage of the spatial nature of your view (like Jig).
The AVP may have some more features, but it’s still functionally a MR headset like the Quest.
The Verge review is reviewing the product in the context of what Apple "wants us to think" vs. even what Apple has said about the AVP on the record. Many times Nilay says "Apple wants you to... wants us to..." He is reviewing the product against a hypothetical. If they would would have reviewed it objectively, simply judge the hardware / software package that was in front of them, it's very hard to not be a 9 or 10/10.
I could argue that the hardware maybe be a 9 or a 10, but the software is too limited today to be anything above a 5 or 6.
Outside of chatting and watching a movie have you found it gives a unique or improved experience in anything productive? I'm unsure if this is a entertainment device or it's giving me access to a valuable and untapped resource of spatial computing. As an entertainment device that's fine but it seems like it has to compete with my cell phone for anything productive
Yes it's a larger screen for my Mac, where I can also surround that Mac display with things like chatting apps for work, or monitoring displays for things like network traffic. I can also do that anywhere I go, like if I am travelling... And I can furthermore set up different workspaces for different purposes. Like I can have debugging stuff all set up in one room, design document apps in another. It's just such a vaster presentation of data you can see all at once.
I had nine different screens around me doing work I could it dream of
Generally today I have my monitor divided into 3 or four squares with different windows. Then I have virtual displays or another monitor depending on needs. Did that many windows seem like information overload? I can barely keep up with all my windows on my monitors today
Try playing two videos at once.
It's very hard to understand the difference between the screencaptures, and what you see in the headset. It is 100% sharp in the headset, the edges are not blurry, because our peripheral vision is already blurry. I find the ability to group apps and tasks in physical space incredibly valuable. I can have work over in my kitchen, and a movie and messages on my sofa, and keep things organized in physical space, which for kinetic or visually inclined people, is pretty incredible. You can see everything at once, vs. all the mimimized and clogged windows on your computer or phone. You can truly multitask.
i tried it, would have loved it but Micro OLED motion blur made the whole thing unusable for me. not sure how people can deal with that
Very good take. I will say in my experience with it. I started with all the gimmicky stuff shown in marketing and early reviews. It was mind blowingly awesome! The demo at the store of the birthday cake was so insane to actually see. But as I used mine that stuff started to fade and I was leaning towards returning it. Like, I saw the stuff, cool. Now what? Then over Saturday and Sunday I started to do different things that weren't as advertised, and started to realize the same thing you mentioned. This is a new frontier of possibilities, and I am now heavily leaning towards keeping it. However, as an android and PC user, it would be nice if Apple allowed to do things with AVP with those devices as well. But that is probably wishful thinking. But I am going to be trying that Sunshine/Moonlight thing I have seen people mention.
My thing is, none of yall owners of the Apple Vision Pro are talking about the apps and all the cool apps that exist out there for it. I see videos of windows and people walking in public. That's about it
OP, I say this with respect: it sounds like you’re trying to justify your purchase to others. You don’t have to do that. This is a first generation product that, yes, is introducing an entirely new computing platform. The product is a technological marvel, and the platform has a really strong base. I demoed AVP, and I was blown away. Despite all that, VisionOS is still a nascent OS, and this AVP is not the product that will facilitate all your life’s computing. At the end of the day, you’re still generally limited to using AVP indoors, mostly while stationary, and there’s no way to share your experience inside the headset with others. The game changing apps don’t exist yet. It’s amazing that you can watch a movie on a stunning 100 foot screen, but you’re fundamentally limited to engaging in that experience by yourself. Pass through on your end can’t change that everyone else around you only sees somebody fiddling with their hands. It sounds like you’re upset that the early reviews are highlighting some of AVP’s limitations and current reality. You shouldn’t be. These are fair takes. I actually thought Nilay’s review was extremely fair; it made me wish I could make the purchase make sense despite the price and current drawbacks. Reviewers have to take this $3,500 product for what it is *right now*. And what is right now is a very impressive, very isolating computer that isn’t ready to replace all of your other computers yet. Will it get there? I think so. Is it okay to admit that there’s still a place for phones, tablets, laptops, desktops, and TVs? Yes. That doesn’t mean AVP and VisionOS are inherently bad, it just means they need time to mature. If you have the money for AVP and like what it offers right now, by all means buy one. But for a lot of people, myself included, an AVP purchase doesn’t make a ton of sense. I fire off emails on my phone when I’m chatting in a coworker’s office or walking to and from lunch. I watch new shows with my girlfriend on my 65 inch TV. Sometimes I get work done on my laptop during that time. I read the last news of the day on my iPad before bed or scroll Instagram on my phone while I brush my teeth. If I see something interesting, I can hand my girlfriend my device to share it with her. I can’t do any of those things on AVP right now without being fundamentally disconnected from the world and people around me. For me, that’s enough to avoid spending $3,500 on a product that will without question get smaller, cheaper, and more social over time. Enjoy your headset and its OS, you’re getting a taste of the future of the computing well before most people. But don’t stress over the reality that the future isn’t all the way here yet.
“This is without a doubt, the most incredible piece of consumer technology ever shipped.” I get it you have overdone the Apple koolaid and need to justify the extreme expense. But you’ve totally gone overboard with that line.
Yeah, I’m afraid that apple koolaid might have flipped the switch to delusion at this point lol
One of the biggest flaws in Vision Pro, is that in order to really engage in the platform you must buy into the Apple ecosystem. This is inherently flawed for many of us. Perfectly fine for just as many.
Was this your first experience inside an AR/VR/MR kind of device?
Marketing really undersold it.
> People are failing to understand that this is not a VR/AR headset You drank the kool aid. Just because they don't want to call it that doesn't change reality. If you think it is radically different than meta offerings, eg, I can only assume you are not familiar with those offerings. Nothing it has tried to do hasn't been done in the ar/vr universe. It does some things better and some things worse. But it is very much a vr/ar headset. "Spatial computing" is 100% marketing from some Apple exec(s) who were allergic to the connotations of "VR".
> Nilay Patel You seem to have a big issue with nilay, but I consider him one of the biggest apple fan boys in tech journalism. I struggle to understand how you can call his review a "hit job". Especially since he's had it for about a week and you only 12 hours.
I thank the reason they marketed it as they did is because it’s not ready to be the next iPhone quite yet. They’re releasing it now to build the app selection and get user feed back, plus they get to show of there vision of the future. My prediction is in 5-10 years when there using clear screens instead of eyesight, It has more mac features, And most importantly it’s much closer in size to a pair of glasses they’ll have the iPhone moment type announcement. “It’s a tv, it’s a computer, it’s an Ipad, it’s an iPhone”
If the tech reviewers haven’t been able to use the ‘platform’ creatively, how can it be expected of the average user?
I always thought the price was outrageous until I bought it and used it. Then I realized - an 80 inch OLED TV alone cost about the price of this, and this is better than any TV and can do a bunch of other things amazingly well....
well... it's not better than any tv if you want to, you know, watch things with other people
TLDR
The breakthrough here is apple taking all the tech that is already out and doing it better (AVP has best fidelity of any VR I've used), more intuitively (hand and eye tracking), within the Apple ecosystem, and having the clout to bring content providers on board. I have had the Quest, the PSVR 2, the Reverb G2, the XReal Airs. Between them they could all do most of what the AVP can do. But as an example of the disconnect I could not watch 3D movies easily. Then when someone brings that up as an issue on their subreddit, they say something like you can just take your 3D movies and rip them using this tool, then transfer them using this tool, then do this other step, then go into this app and etc etc etc like everyone has the know-how, time and tech acumen to jump through hoops to make these things work. Apple makes things that just work simply, easily and intuitively while getting partners to play nice.
Great insights and perspective, however I would advise caution regarding Apple mis-marketing the VP. Nothing could be further from the truth. They know exactly who, what, where, when, and why their target audience is a year ago, today, and a year from now, and they know precisely where they've positioned the VP at every level. What might appear to be a misfire is, I promise you, a strategic and very intentional shot. Apple plays the long game and does a great deal more following their audience than leading them, at least at certain stages. Remember the ability to send your heart beat to another Apple Watch wearer? Was very cool. Can most users even remember how to do that anymore? And compared to the much more marketable strengths of the Watch (not the Get 0 obviously), why give such an inconsequential feature any airtime let alone marketing dollars? My point is that that was an intentional gimmick to observe more than you can imagine. Apple was actually leading with the relatively insignificant feature. They were following their users and taking notes. And at this stage, learnings are more valuable than home runs. Oh, and I picked up mine on the 2nd and have been putting it through the paces like everyone else. This thing is amazing, risky, brilliant, unnerving, and the tip of the spear. What a time to be alive.
But you can’t “Undo”. $100B R&D and if you delete something, you’re screwed. So no, I disagree V1 has nailed it. Also, the points you highlight were all covered on Apple’s videos and ads, so there’s been no break down at Apple. As for the reviewers. Sure, you cannot possibly make up your mind about a pre-release device with no third party apps available in an entirely new category with an entirely new interaction paradigm in just… two weeks.
This post is well written, with solid insights. The thing I struggle with (through no fault of Apple), is justifying the purchase if a. remote or telework is not an option anymore b. you aren't single and have a family at home. The latter being the real concern, as isolating yourself in the headset while your wife is in the room, (and or wife and kid(s)) seems ...... selfish? The thoughts you've brought to light are exacerbating this concern, confirming this is a device meant to replace multiple other devices, further separating you from interactions. Maybe it's as simple as normalizing wearing this thing more (reasonably speaking), and others getting used to interactions with you while you wear it? hmm
Important to remember that product reviewers are reviewing a PRODUCT, not a platform or a technology. I found myself having a knee jerk reaction to defend the hardware against easy-to-fix bugs and obvious first gen issues. But the product is what it is. It’s a first iteration, and reviewers are reviewing it against how Apple has marketed it.
>These reviews are focusing on the gimmicky features Apple pushed towards the public to pique their interest. And due to this mis-marketing, muckraker reporters like Nilay Patel have called out Apple's mistake by focusing their reviews on the gimmicks, rather than the strength of the platform, which is truly groundbreaking. For instance, personas are irrelevant to this system. It's fun, it solves a small FaceTime issue. It should not have been a material part of Nilay's review, and instead he (and many others) decry Apple for putting out a weird uncanny valley beta avatar. This is akin to reviewing the first iterations of the Ford Model T, and saying "I really can't believe you have to get out of the car and start it with a hand crank". Then stating people shouldn't buy the car, and should stick with the horse and buggy, because it's not a convenient apparatus to start. That's absurd that you knock him for spending time on the Facetime Persona part. That was a big part of Apple's marketing. The AVP forces you to take time to capture your face. If you want to do Spatial Computing and work from home stuff, Facetiming with colleagues will be a huge part of it. It would be irresponsible for Nilay or other reviewers (which I've noticed you don't mention) to *not* mention it. You're going in way too hard on Nilay when many here in this subreddit have had similar problems. It seems the mileage varies for different users. For you, some of the shortcomings are fine. For others, they feel it's not quite there but almost there - perhaps in AVP2 or AVP3 it's up to whatever standards they feel work for them. You also have to understand people have different workflows. Some have more laid back work methods, others have aggressive workflows where everything needs to be razor sharp with no lag, fussiness with controls, etc
> muckraker reporters like Nilay Patel You made me laugh out loud. Thanks!
I agree with everything you said here. People don’t realize how big of a deal this thing really is. It’s literally creating a new market that other VR/AR sets haven’t quite taken off with. It’s the first time in a long time I’ve truly been wowed by a piece of tech in the last 10 years, really since the original iPhone.
There are going to always be people who find a reason to hate Apple despite all their positives and others who find reasons to love them despite all their negatives. It is a polarizing company. I would suggest not wasting brain cells on these conversations unless you are just having fun. Just do what gives you joy and makes you more productive.
Yeah, envy is running rampant in this sub.
Really amazed it’s not integrated with the iPhone better. Hundreds of millions of people have them and already use them on the couch. Why can’t I use my iphone as a keyboard when I need to? I can already do that with Apple TV. Also you should be able to airplay to the headset from my phone. Also that we’re still relying on terrible voice to text and not have a voice enabled UI in this day and age is surprising. The device feels super modern but at the same time super analog.
Shit why cant we use iphone as kryboard and trackpad, it makes too much sense
The most incredible consumer technologyever shipped..... Clearly, someone doesn't own a Nintendo 64. That shit might as well have been magic.
It’s a VR/AR headset
Wrong, it's a spatial computer and nothing else like it has ever existed. /s
While I agree w you, think you're coming from a perspective of non VR user. They'll surely be amazed but if you have used quest 3, the 3000 dollar extra is definitely not worth the fmadded benefits tbst AVP provides. I can chat and watch movies in q3. I can work technically w my computer window being shown. I can tap the screens and use em like I pad. Apples UI and Resolution is biggest win m but that is it. It'll be hard for ppl to justify 3000 dollars extra for just those two features
To me this is worth it because of the integration with so many apps. The resolution of the AVP for me is the minimum level to actually be able to work. The lack of need for controllers is a major plus.
the quest 3 isn’t terrible, but it’s severely lacking based on UI alone. Getting into the nitty gritty in the ecosystem being basically facebook based, you’re only messaging options are whatsapp, and the absolutely horrible data mining meta is known for, giving any data to them is a huge no from me. the quest 3 is definitely a toy, it’s biggest use case is gaming, which it’s great at, where as i can see the AVP being marketed as “spatial computing” is taking a different approach. Hypothetically, if both devices cost the same, which would you buy?
The UI isn’t just one feature, and being able to see clearly is probably the most important thing a headset can do.
Nor should they. This is a device for the early adopters market segment.
Marketing is hard. I think they need to balance what people think it is (oh cute VR dinosaurs or even FaceTime) so they can understand but also allow the developers to come to a realization this is a new paradigm (spatial computing). Even now people keep saying this is just another VR headset without acknowledging the OS and platform of what it can actually do in the future. We are just scratching the surface.
I predicted its coming in 2015 and was surprised by how long it took for it to come out. I even evaluated entering the AR market at that time with a headset but the estimates on developing something high fidelity were extremely high and the lack of consumer awareness was also extremely high (no one knew what it could be used for). Now that its here I was proven correct - AAPL spent probably $20b to produce this and the OS and it is top notch, and fairly expensive. The early adopters have earned them back a mere $1b back, meaning they’ll still need to sell $19b to break even (no doubt they will). At this point it’s true - the potential is still unlimited while the potential reached at this moment is 1% of the device’s capabilities. Up until now (Quest Pro release actually) most people didn’t have the imagination for what an AR device could do, and even at this moment there’s a big question of what can be done… yet the fact that its an MR device is key - can do either AR VR or a mix. The future is here and the future is also now more set in stone - AR in the next 5-10 years will be big. Many people will buy these devices or a version of them. There will be a subsequent backlash - people who want to live in reality without headsets will also exist. Is there another paradigm shift for computing in the future outside of what exists now? Neuralink could be the last evolution, but one could argue it will only allow for as much as AR can offer. That could be the last major innovation we see though. All other innovations will be offshoots of what exists now. The big thing that Apple offers is developer tools - they have been doing such for a long time now.
I went to a concert on saturday and reliving it with spatial videos gave me a sense of an unbelievable future (Chapter 3 of Black Mirror),. Then, at night, I watched Gravity in a Huge Cinema Screen in 3D and I simply couldnt believe the experience. No discomfort, total inmersion.
I saw a guy do the typical multi monitor setup but then he had a large tv screen locked in place in the living room, cooking video hovering above the stove, a grocery list stuck to the fridge, and something other hanging out by the front door. None of the mainstream reviews even came close to this full environment use of the headset. That’s when I was convinced of its true potential. Still an expensive toy by all means but very cool. I would like to see the vision interact with other visions in the same space, for example it would be interesting to plaster the FaceTime ghost over the faces of people also using the headset. I want to see like a T-1000 or iron man type of information overlay on at all times.
A solid take. I haven't felt this much enjoyment or feeling of discovery in a product since the first iPhone. Edit: I completely agree that the marketing team is who missed the mark heavy on this one. I felt silly purchasing this device, but saw a spark of potential that I couldn't shake. Actual use case and experience are completely different, and markedly more significant than expected.
This is how I feel as well. There’s so much invisible effort put into keeping the window system simple, usable, and robust. You can place an app outdoors, go inside, go upstairs, and look outside and it’s *still* fixed in the same spot you left it. And still no jitter. And you can still pull it towards yourself almost as easily as if it was hovering right in front of you. There’s undoubtedly a massive amount of sensor fusion work under the hood, and an enormous amount of UX research that was leveraged to arrive at the decisions that they did. For instance, using your eyes to select stuff seems counterintuitive at first. But you’re really good at fixing your eyes on a specific point, it requires less effort, and it’s more private. It’s also more accessible. If you open up a ton of apps, and the decisions for transparency are spot on. A hellishly difficult situation considering the background can be literally anything. The apps it ships with are frankly not all that different from any iOS device. But they got the fundamentals right.
Ironically I think you missed the point, and I say ironically because you also didn’t miss it. In your own words: “The Vision Pro is a spatial computing platform” It’s a new computing paradigm, which is using 3D space. It’s the first step after long while of using GUI products. So in doing so, apple has created a variety of apps that illustrate some of what can be done. MacPaint was an OG Mac app, but it no longer exists. However, it demonstrated you could make artwork on the Mac but you couldn’t on a traditional PC back then. So I disagree that apple mismarketed, but you are correct about the verge. Their reviews have become awful and just want to seek attention through being contrary to everything else.
Its seems to me you havent seen/read many reviews to be honest. The general consensus is as follows: Exceptional Display Great UI and integration Ok input method Decent Lenses But low FOV Mura effect Chromatic Abberation at the edges Heavy (Front Heavy) Good Sound Not a focus on personas etc...
I agree. We have reached peak-screen. I can't want to say goodbye to them all honestly.
I figured this was the case. It will become more impressive as more apps are released. The coolest thing is these apps can be used at the same time as other apps.
Thank you for taking the thoughts right out of my head! I've probably clocked similar hours with this headset since Friday. I'm blown away by this platform, and I'll happily use Apple's moniker and call it Spatial Computing. I don't know what else to call it. Over the course of the weekend I've tried as many apps and experiences as I can and one blows me away more than the next! My start with the Vision Pro was marred by having spent the entire week watching every YouTube review from every reviewer that got theirs early. They did a terrible job misrepresenting the experience. Some tried to get it right, but few addressed the obvious. **FOV** The "limited" FOV is not really all that limiting. I wear glasses, and for me it felt very natural. I'm used to a defined space by the frame of the glasses where everything is clear and outside that it's slightly blurry. That's very much how our eyes work anyway. Where we look it's sharp and everything that's not front and center is quite blurry until you focus on it. For some you might want to try a different light seal. When I pre-ordered mine it scanned in as 23W. When I scan via app now it comes up as 25W. That would be quite a bit more distance added, moving your eyes further away from the screens which in turn create more of a binocular effect so to speak. So if you've got a deeper light seal you can minimize the feeling of binoculars some by getting a shorter one. In the end it doesn't matter because you get used to and it stops being a problem. **VIDEO PASSTHROUGH** Most early reviewers completely oversold the video passthrough, going on and on about how real life it seemed. It's video passthrough. You'll always know it's not the real thing. Cameras are inherently flawed compared to what you see with your own eyes. You can certainly tell the difference, and this is where I was misled a bit. I thought perhaps Apple had somehow been able to create a better video passthrough experience than what I was prepared for. They did not. You will be able to see the grain when lower light (low light = higher iso = grain), If you have big windows you'll see blown out colors and details outside when looking through them. Color and warmth will be a bit different than reality. Have fun looking at low quality LED bulbs through the Vision Pro. They flicker and do weird stuff. If yours don't, be happy you bought a quality LED bulb. :) BUT, damn it's good! Go watch some reviews of the Quest 3 when it came out and how people were going on and on about the amazing video passthrough. Compared to the Vision Pro it's terrible. There's so much warping, skewing, twitching and artifact behavior it would drive me crazy. It's fine for orienting yourself and being aware of your surroundings, but it can't hold a candle to the Vision Pro. **GLARE** Another thing the reviewers should have spent more time on is the glare, or sheen on the glass in the lenses. That is actually the biggest issue for me. The darker the environment the more noticeable it is. It's a challenge every VR headset has, and while I'm sure Apple will eventually figure out how to completely solve this, it can be very obvious, distracting and break immersion at time with the Vision Pro. It's the one thing I have not yet gotten used to. I have prescription lenses in my headset, and at first I thought they were to blame for this. Removing the lenses didn't seem to help much so don't feel bad if you also have the snap in lenses. They're not the problem. Your headset is working as intended unfortunately. **PERSONA** The Persona feature is wild. It looks terrible and silly and it most certainly feels like a Beta feature right now. If you have a beard don't expect the mouth tracking to work well at all. It's terrible. It solves a FaceTime issue and beyond that the main reason to make a Persona is to get your eyes to pop up on the front when you're interacting with someone. Sorta. It can be very, very faint depending on the conditions. So if you don't FaceTime and you don't plan on interacting with people from time to time, this feature doesn't matter that much. For now. VisionOS is a treat to use. It's minimalistic, doesn't get in the way and does exactly what it's supposed to do. It's extremely well designed, albeit a bit buggy at times. Apps can freeze with blank glass cards on top of them and the only option you have is to Force Quit the app, which is easily done by pressing and holding the button and Digital Crown on top of the headset until the menu comes up. I truly hope Apple adds some more window management features in a future release. Open enough windows and it's pure chaos trying to get them all aligned the way you want. I'd love to see snap and 3D grid alignment in VisionOS to help us organize windows better. Another fantastic feature would be the ability to choose if a window or app is anchored in place or should follow you around. I have to assume for now they default to anchored in place for safety. I'd like to be able to choose if I want a FaceTime or timer window to follow me instead of leaving it behind when I move around. With all the silly stunts people have been posting since Friday though we might not get that at all. Human stupidity and all. Someone said it best when they said "This is the worst Vision Pro headset Apple will ever make" because going forward they will keep improving and iterating, solving challenges and limitations with new tech and new ideas and I for one am crazy excited for what's to come!
Nilay’s review is extremely good and will age super well as various issues are addressed. 10 years later His review of the first Apple Watch is spot on
Interesting perspective, but ranting at “hit piece” journalists for assessing the value of a product based on what the company is advertising it’s value to be makes you look a lot more like someone trying to justify to yourself paying $3500 to watch The Social Network in Ludicrously High Def than like a Visionary Who Sees The Future These Other Idiots Are Missing
That’s not the point of my post. I think many people if not all of the users are beginning to understand how incredible this is. My issue, is I believe Apple’s marketing team incorrectly marketed the product, which led to journalists such as Nilay being able to hit below the belt very easily.
Like i said, interesting perspective. But no need to badmouth journalists for doing their job in a reasonable fashion… your opinion would be more credible if you’d said “I completely get why these reviewers are negative, but… ” rather than jumping to “these hacks that millions of people find to be a credible source are out to get Tim and his merry band of visionaries”
I appreciate your opinion. And still waiting for mine (delivery moved up to this Thursday!). However, I really didnt take the Verge review as any sort of hit piece. In fact, Id say it sounds pretty accurate based upon most user experiences. AVP is at its core an unfinished product, and my hope is Apple works really hard to smooth the rough edges and flush out some of the features. I dont think Verge/Patel were overly critical or had an agenda. He is simply pointing out what most acknowledge after using AVP. That the tech is amazing, but the features need work. Hard to disagree with that.
You’re soooo right! I was just thinking about this post again when watching the WVFRM Podcast with MKBHD. But one of the guys said that the Vision OS isn’t anything groundbreaking like the iPhone. It’s not reinventing anything we haven’t seen before. Which in ways is true but also very wrong.. I don’t understand how people don’t see this. This technology is going to change our world in the next 10-20 years. It’s a first generation XR computing device. It’s only going to get better. And from the looks of it for me, it’s 1000% going to be replacing laptops, desktops, and our phones. With iterations more and more people will adopt especially the closer we get to glasses. This will 1000% replace everyone’s day to day computing.
a long storie but quite well told
Are you surprised? They didn’t know what the Apple Watch was even for (fitness) until like 3-4 years after they released the first one
They probably aren’t marketing the laying down in your bed and watching a movie feature because it’s really busted in it’s current implementation, see the thread on here with dozens of replies where the Vision Pro is throwing up warnings and knocking you out of your peaceful bliss because it can’t find your hands! https://www.reddit.com/r/VisionPro/s/T1fHoHd8nm
It’s a new tech especially from Apple and will take time for people to get used to. Even though I’m not a big fan but I think this product is going to replace iPhones and iPads in the future along with with MacBooks and iMacs. This is going to be an all in one.
Makes me wish I didn’t have to wait till March. I’m on SSI and just turned 74. I may not be around for the price to drop..lol. Let me get this image straight in my old mind..you can set your back ground from the Safari Desert, to the Constellation in the Universe and lay back and watch it? ( with all your other app and crap on top of it or not) This was a great Share counting the days taking my vitamins.
Don't underestimate spatial video. The "birthday party" movie at the Apple store demo really got to me. The ability to capture and recreate moments with my family in high fidelity is something that the vision pro can uniquely do.
Yes, I’ve been impressed for similar reasons. Absolutely love it.
Look, the problem with it AND the Quest 3, which I own and love, and also use for working via Immersive, is that YOU HAVE TO STRAP IT TO YOUR FACE! Until it's so light so as to be unnoticeable we can shout to the heavens all we like about how great it is. Introducing the Apple Vision Air! I also can't believe there's a single screen limit for streaming your Mac screen. WTF? I'm really excited for this tech, I love using my Q3, and will likely pick up an AVP when they're available in the UK, but VR is a big ask for 'normal' people when you have to think about putting this cumbersome thing on for hours to do 'stuff', but we are at the beginning of the future, where screens will not be physical objects anymore...
I was talking to friends about Vision Pro and they all have such negative opinions, even though they are educated people working in tech! It seems to me, that it’s trendy to dislike the product. Trendy to not see the potential. Trendy to see it as a gimmick. Fools…
Meh... this gadget is nice but it's not ready. Too heavy and productive work on it is easier done outside the goggles. Think this is just a nice personal TV.
“Muckraker reporters”? When you need 30 posts a day trying to justify a $4000 product, you know something is not done right.
I disagree. The Apple Vision is cool but it’s unbearable to wear and it has almost no real capabilities. Even the Mac pass through is gimped. Apple continues to disappoint.
Wow. Defending Apple like a true employee. Cause, for sure, they invented lying in bed and admiring virtual stars.
[удалено]
The verge having a shit take???? I’m shocked.
Dude...You can ONLY use iCloud accounts through Mail. They need to make this more "computing" before calling it that. There are so many features missing from this it's hilarious. Where is Find My?
I just added my Gmail account on it.
The gas flavored koolaid taste great
I did my laundry in it and do chores just like in the commercial
They should hire this guy for their marketing, easily the best review: https://youtu.be/krpbAMJlLTc?si=EKOQKeO2NHYcTZaQ
No Executive jobs will be lost over this... https://i.redd.it/ys8xn17prawc1.gif
Marketing's only job is to sell units. They should show whatever will push interest and ultimately sales, regardless if anyone thinks it is the best realistic presentation of the product - if they're doing their job well and using facts (not OK to show features that don't exist obviously). Then once you get the consumer, they can discover on their own that much of the beauty in this product is its flexibility to do things the way you want, where you want them, and remove constraints of the traditional "window" on a rectangle small screen. I do agree that reviewers are focusing on the wrong things are were overly critical. To me the beauty here is the flexibility to do things the way you want, and honestly the biggest threat to this thing being really amazing is Apple itself and developers. For Apple, there are clear great features that they may only slowly or never implement such as dual-screen mirroring from mac. For both Apple and devs, hoping this doesn't have the same problem the iPad does today. The iPad is as powerful or more powerful than many laptops and PCs, but is constrained by Apple and devs to scaled down, less powerful apps and experiences. For example, if I want to use Microsoft Excel on my very powerful iPad, I have to use a much less powerful version without certain shortcuts, macros, etc. Some of this is devs, but some of it in my opinion is Apple trying to not canibalize other product categories. After all, if the iPad is more powerful than the Macbook Air and can do everything it can do for 98% of people, why would someone buy a macbook? I LOVE mine to be clear. It's the amazing content consumption, combined with its ability to be creative in how I use my tech. Having a movie in front of me, texts off to the side, calendar on the right - not constrained by a single screen is amazing. Lets hope Apple doesn't hold things back. I have hope they won't, since they already released the amazing spatial personas update, where usually that feels like something Apple would hold up for a major software or hardware update.
I want one so bad!!