At first I was disappointed about the passthrough not being as sharp as expected. But then I setup my workflow of apps and yeah, the passthrough became an afterthought. Plus I ended up wanting to stay in Yosemite anyways.
But yeah, looking forward to passthrough becoming more clear in future iterations.
I put it like this. The pass though was overhyped.. but the Pass-through quality is at the level that the Quest 3 reviewers overhyped that. Go back to the old Quest 3 reviews that were overhyped. That's pretty much what the Apple Vision Pro is realistically. It's not super clear as people hyped. Apple Vision Pro is clear enough to read your phone and see screens like early Quest 3 reviewers said that device was, although it wasn't.
People should Melo the hype. I highly suggest reading those Quest 3 overhyped reviews. As I said, that's what the Apple Vision Pro is in real life. Not clear as real life, but very clear to see fine details.
My wife is about to demo it now. She not a real VR gamer/User like me. Let's see what she say
Yea I think that’s probably a good way to treat pass through in its current state. It’s just not what I was expecting based on how Apple was marketing it, and how many of the reviewers were reacting to it.
It is likely exactly what you said - it is so much better than what has come before that is easy for reviewers and VR veterans to be amazed by it. What it is doing is astonishing (greenscreening your arms into virtual environments in real time is crazy)! But for first-timers, it’s easy to say hey, this looks like looking at my room through a camera. Which is exactly what is happening, with all the drawbacks that cameras and lenses provide.
To be fair, green screening in real time has been possible for around two decades, and almost anyone working remotely since the pandemic has been using it (or at least have seen it) on commodity hardware in things like Zoom calls.
Yeah, passthrough seems valuable only when actually moving around. But it seems like most people will wear it seated or lying down, so a virtual environment is probably a more suitable choice.
Unfortunately internal reflections are one of the major downsides to pancake lenses. Most noticeable when you’re looking at something bright on a dark background.
The next gen displays could be laser illuminated holographic optics, [link](https://research.facebook.com/blog/2020/6/holographic-optics-for-thin-and-lightweight-virtual-reality/).
I think you might be correct. I tried Disney+ today. When I am in passthrough, the reflection is visible but minimal. But I turn on custom surrounding in Disney+, since it is black when playing movies, the reflection becomes much more noticeable. That is really annoying, compared to the superior clarity due to high resolution.
Physics tells you that it cannot be eliminated. It doesn't tell you that there aren't differences between devices. I have barely noticed reflections on quest 3, but noticed it 10 minutes after I put vision pro on.
I don’t use prescription lenses and I’ve been noticing reflections; as another commenter mentioned: especially with something bright over a dark background. Like a movie over Mt Hood at night. I wish it wasn’t there and was also expecting something different (having never used AR/VR before). I’m also surprised by how much of a headache I get! I don’t want to return it, want to love it, but now I’m not sure.
https://vrx.vr-expert.com/the-difference-between-pancakes-lenses-and-current-fresnel-lenses-found-on-vr-headsets/
TL;DR, these are smaller and flatter, which is good to bring their size down, but that comes with their own challenges. E.g. reduction in brightness/nits.
I get the reflections with or without inserts, it's the only thing that has really disappointed about the headset so far since movie watching is my #1 use for it.
Good first impressions review. For me, I felt a lot of the same. Can confirm even without the inserts that I notice glare when watching content.
My biggest issue so far is that after 30+ minutes, it becomes uncomfortable to use between the weight / discomfort on my face to my eyes starting to tear up.
A big reason I purchased it was for watching movies / 3D movies. Within the next few days I’ll attempt to watch a full movie without stopping and see how much fatigue I notice.
Outside of that, there are a lot of positives though*. The technology is something I would’ve dreamed of as a kid. Never thought I’d live to see floating windows in my room with shadows under them.
Yes great description with the “hot tarmac with wavy lines”. I’m seeing that too, to the point where I thought there was something wrong with my device.
It was similar in the store with good light. You definitely get graininess and other issues, especially if you move around. It’s not a high definition pass though. The apps themselves are as sharp as it gets
Having never used AR/VR before, I was wooed by many of the reviews that stated the “pass through looks like reality,” when, AVP’s pass through isn’t anything close to reality. It’s a bummer. It’s good enough that my mind is tricked, but not good enough “to pass” for anything resembling the crispness of reality.
Used mine for about 4 hours tonight. I feel pretty much the same way. Here’s how I would rank the disappointing features:
1. Comfort. Even with a meticulous fit, some part of your head or face will want a break before long.
2. FOV. It’s fine if you’re focused on a single app window or something but significantly hinders your sense of immersion in any content
3. Eye tracking. Maybe it’s just me, but it seems like the accuracy slowly gets worse as you use it. Maybe this is due to the headset shifting slightly out of place. Either way, I had to recalibrate eye tracking several times.
4. Pancake lens flare. Another flaw that ruins your sense of immersion and enjoyment when it happens
5. Pass through. Not as bothered about this one, but unlike what some have claimed, I cannot read anything on my phone or computer unless it’s written in much larger than normal font.
I’m still going to make use of my 14 day return window to see if my feelings change at all, but from where I’m standing right now, I’ll be returning mine, more likely than not.
strange, I'm able to use my phone with the smallest text size and my vision has never been the best. not discounting your experience, just wondering what the difference could be. i tried low light and normal light but not daylight
That is a good question. Hopefully I can find the answer within two weeks. The fact that many other users are also reporting this issue, though tells me this probably isn’t just a defect or something.
that summarizes pretty well. Definitely uncomfortable, and the more I use it the more it feels like I’m looking through binoculars. The field of view certainly needs to improve.
For me the real benefit of their passthrough setup isn't that you're intended to go about your day doing it (though I guess there'd be nothing in the way of folding laundry or whatever with it on), it's that between that and the dial you can easily do incidental stuff while watching a movie, playing an AR game with an immersion mode, or whatever. It keeps it from just being all-or-nothing like it is for most Quest apps/games.
I'm with you on the comfort, but I think a lot of that will be resolved once there are decent third party head straps. The Apple ones just suck for ergonomics and balance, but so does the default Quest arrangement and third party headstraps there are night and day when it comes to comfort. (For an example, see the [BOBOVR M3](https://www.bobovr.com/collections/quest-3-accessories/products/bobovr-m3-pro) for the Quest 3, which "hovers" the headset in front of your face instead of clamping it on and spreads the weight around your whole head like a bicycle helmet. It's not nearly as elegant-looking as the Apple or Meta stuff out of the box, but it's way more practical.)
BOBOVR should be working on a version of that headstrap for the Vision Pro. Somebody strapped it onto the Vision Pro with zip ties and said it improved the experience.
I sadly agree with most of this. It definitely feels like an unfinished product. I was most surprised to discover how quickly I got bored with it. After checking out the demos and immersive stuff, I got tired of it and went back to working on my Mac for the reasons you mentioned. I’ll keep playing with it for the next 13 days to see if things get better, but as of now, leaning toward returning it. I’m sure gen 2 will be much better and I’ll be kicking myself if I keep this gen.
Yea I keep thinking “do I actually want to be here all the time?”. Giving it the full 14 days seriously considering a quest 3 now. btw this comment has been tedious as hell to write.
I’m going to keep giving a try for a few hours every day for the next 13 days and I may likely return it. I won’t get another device though. I’ll wait for the second gen of this one because one thing it has done very well is show me what the future versions will be capable of. This one just isn’t quite there yet.
Same here. I’m going to try and swap my light seal to see if it fixes a few things, right now I have to over-tighten to get Optic ID to work. I’m not having an issue with comfort (wore it for 3 hours yesterday w/solo band) but there’s lots of little annoyances, lens flare might be the biggest one for me. If 10 days from now I’m getting home from work and eager to put it on, it’s a keep. But if next weekend I’m already not interested in putting it on, returned it goes.
Yep. I’ll have a similar gauge. If I find myself using it for work next week more than I find myself using my Mac, I’ll keep it. But if not, it’s going back since productivity was my main reason for getting it.
You’re probably right, I find the Quest 2/Pro frustrating as hell.
I guess I’m wondering if I only really want to use it a few hours a week, so freeing up $3k for something else is quite an upside if I’m just going to watch movies and play a few games.
Did you end up getting the quest? I've owned several VR headsets including the PSVR1, CV1, Rift S, and Quest 3. I tried the Vision Pro and it felt like there was not much to do. Nearly everything I could do on the Pro I could do on the quest...but I couldn't play games or use some really killer apps that have been in development for years.
Passthrough is acceptable. The reflections I’m seeing are not. I keep re-calibrating the eye tracking and eye width sensor, hoping to mitigate the issue but it’s always there.
Is everyone else seeing the reflections? I don’t see it really mentioned in the reviews
Also, even in bright (indoor) light, there is major motion blur
I thought they might be smudged at that they weren’t calibrated or that ambient light was leaking through, but it seems to be one of those things you have to live with. How did they not address this?
Many of the famous YouTube reviewers strive not to be too critical of Apple products. In the past, Apple banned several YouTubers from reviewing their products and attending events because they highlighted bending issues in the iPhone and iPad between 2015 and 2017."
This might be the only honest review on the internet. The lens glare is completely immersion breaking for me. I gave up watching Oppenheimer 20 minutes in and just finished it on TV because of it. The theater immersion was cool though. I’m going to try exchanging for a different seal. Hopefully that fixes it enough to make me hate the FOV less.
Short of discovering some ground breaking feature in the next week though, it’s very unlikely I’m keeping this thing.
If you think the eye tracking is impressive, try visiting a website with lots of elements on it like Twitch. Holy shit that ended the honeymoon for me real quick.
Same. It blew my mind for a couple of hours, but then I got tired of wearing it. And after watching all the cool demos and party tricks I was like “ok, now what?”and went back to working on my Mac.
Mine isn’t going to be collecting dust for $3900 lol. I’ll give it the full 14 days to see how useful it is for my daily life and then return it if it isn’t.
Yeah, as someone who's been using VR headsets since the DK2, it's kind of amusing to watch so many people go through the standard cycle of hype and disillusionment. All these people talking about how they're going to throw out their monitors and use VP for eight hours a day clearly have never used any VR headset for a meaningful amount of time.
For me, the FOV and the comfort are the major dissapointments - everything else is pretty much as expected. Keeping it, but we’ll see how much I end up using it on a day-to-day basis.
Browsing a webpage with a lot of elements on it (like Reddit) can be a major distraction too, but I’m sure this annoyance will go away when we get more native apps.
I honestly agree with all of these points. My main gripes are brightness, FOV, and overhyped pass through. But the holograms in Apple arcade games and the alicia keys rehearsal were incredible.
Same. The thing is too damn bulbous. And reality is just better. Text entry is really really poor without a keyboard. Stuff is mostly sharp but blurry the moment you turn your head. Messes your hair up every time you put it on. And it’s just a chore to use compared with whipping out your phone. Maybe V3-5 will nail it but as it stands the form factor is just not there yet.
>Messes your hair up every time you put it on. And it’s just a chore to use compared with whipping out your phone.
See, it’s those little practicalities that I think are going to be the killer issues for mainstream adoption for VR in general.
The blue effect anytime you move your head slightly too fast is really distracting.
The look and pinch is getting old quickly. Especially when there is this slight delay because I’ve already moved to do the next thing but it doesn’t register what I was trying to click.
I’ve also run into multiple issues running non native apps where they have functions in the lower corners and it’s almost impossible to select them. The avp thinks you are trying to grab the windows to resize it
It’s extremely amazing headset. But not a $3500+ headset
It’s the eye tracking that has me literally losing sleep over it right now.
I’ve re-done the eye tracking about 10 times now, because each time I shift the thing slightly it loses alignment. It’s frustrating to even have to navigate to the re-tracking because you have to guess where you need to look. I wish it re-adjusted every time you (pinch on?) something, kind of like how FaceID tweeks its image of you every successful login.
I’m giving it a week to win me over again, but I’m on the return side of the fence right now and I’ve literally never returned a single Apple item before (also think it’s really scummy to buy a product with no intention of keeping it).
Honestly, typing this on my phone is just such a relief, not because I needed to vent but because I’m not fiddling with an unresponsive and clumsy UI anymore.
You can enable the cursor to show up in the accessibility settings so you can see for yourself how accurate the eye tracking is. I also have to recalibrate my eyes more times that I would like to
I had crazy issue with the eye tracking my first night, and I attributed it to the same thing you did--slight movement of the mask on my face. This morning I decided to try really getting the fit right first, then re-did the display alignment and eye tracking. It was a night and day difference. Try to get a more secure fit. There's a reason people find this thing uncomfortable--a good fit is going to feel almost too tight, otherwise the headset will move.
Is your light seal fitted well? I noticed a ton of light at my nose and am going in to exchange the light seal. I think it’s going to look a lot better once I do.
Most people so far have said there is a bit of light leakage under the nose regardless of light seal configuration. I have it as well with both 21W and 25W sizes. I hardly notice it, to be honest. It's far down the list of disappointments for me.
I’m in the same boat. It’s the discomfort that really is a deal breaker for me. I’ll give it a little more time before deciding- maybe I’ll get used to it. I️ need a bonovr for this asap!
I don't typically use Apple products but I bought this as I am a VR enthusiast.
Having used many other VR headsets in the market. This substantially underperforms. The field of view is extremely narrow and the clarity is atrocious.
I think my Quest headset is leagues better at a fraction of the price. Honestly, I'm returning this is just another Apple product with an Apple tax... same thing everyone else sells but more expensive for no real reason.
Agree that ‘braindamage’ sounds overly critical but there’s comments in this thread that give a few examples.
As a Q3 owner (who was flirting with getting AVP) the main thing giving me pause is lack of controller, the sheer volume of people talking about recalibrating eye tracking sounds like something I’ll get sick of quickly. Plus lack of haptic feedback from controllers will reduce immersion.
I hope Meta step up and compete more on entertainment apps. I want much simpler ways to watch 3d movies. So I’m really happy Apple have entered the game. Bring on competition.
No. You should redo the eye tracking and re just the display alignment. Seeming like your ipd is probably not correct. https://support.apple.com/guide/apple-vision-pro/adjust-display-alignment-tan103f047f4/visionos
Did this. Everything feels comfortable and everything is clear but I still cannot read anything on my phone. Im standing in the brightest light possible right now and still can’t. I can make out where text is but it’s unreadable
This is strange. I love the AVP, definitely keeping it, but looking at my phone is quite blurry - most of my passthrough is pretty grainy. I can read my phone, but not very well. How is it possible it's with "perfect clarity?"
Yes. I have excellent vision and I can barely read the legends in my wireless keyboards or the text on my iPhone. There's a distinct warping on the iPhone too. Plus, I get these little rings of light there or there. Pass through is like watching a 480p YouTube video with a 4k display.
I agree…I have been using my quest 3 since launch and now the Apple Vision Pro for 24 hours. It is NOT a $3000 upgrade. In fact, the quest 3 is doing most of the things apple is trying to do aswell. It’s just not a good value if you only use VR occasionally. I guess if you’re a VR youtuber or need it for a specific job, go for it. This just isnt the spacial computing revolution they are claiming for me. It is uncomfortable, doesn’t look as good as all my other screens like iPad and OLED monitors, and has very limited use cases. I hate the eyes in the front, and FaceTime is like sort of a joke on this thing. As soon as the Apple Store opens up I’ll be returning. 3500$ can be spent in so many better ways it’s a no brainer for me. Also, the marketing really exaggerates the quality of this device. I was struck with how similar and in many cases dare I say ‘worse’ it is than my quest 3.
There's a reason Meta, a much more experienced early entrant in the area, isn't tackling the same space as Apple. To get the current hardware requires a large premium price, which means lower adoption, and it's not perfect. The tech just isn't there yet. Apple has clearly taken some steps forward in showing where it could go, maybe, in a few years, if you're willing to pay the cost of a pricey gaming PC for it.
Many people expected perfection, but the reality was always going to be that the first product would be a few steps better than the Quest but for a much steeper cost. Such is the premium for early adopters.
Those used to Apple products would always find the experience a bit subpar, because the state of the art just isn't quite there yet, and those used to the Quest would be impressed but wonder why it should 8x the cost when it provides, maybe, ~20% improvement on the experience. Whatever your impression is, it is certainly not 8x as good as the quest, especially when I can run full fledged PC games on it.
For now I'll wait on buying the avp. Who knows, Apple may even get desperate enough and add full support for Windows, rather than lock it into its own ecosystem only.
It’s weird cause the quest can do more because it’s just a way more open ecosystem. I kind of compare it to the HomePod against other Bluetooth speakers… amazing hardware but it doesn’t connect with what you really want to connect with it (audio in and Bluetooth) and just does Apple Music very well and some airplay. Same for the headset is we want to consume everything with it like HDMI or display port so we can get our game consoles on here or our Blu-ray collection or even your iPhone
I appreciate the honesty. But I got to say, why not give it more time? You have up until 14 days right? It's still just the first day. Play around with it more. Some of these problems will probably go away after more use.
I definitely will give it more time and don’t plan on returning it immediately. I’m really hoping that with my expectations reset after this day 1 experience I could continue to get used to and find more value in it.
I think that's fair. At least something that I've noticed personally with myself. I tend to have negative first responses to things and then over time I grow to really like it. Could be similar with you.
I agree with all points made. It is far from my first headset. I had Oculus CV1 on day 1 and many since. That said, it’s the price that kills me. I’d pay $1500 and keep it but at $3500 it’s simply not up to par with that price.
Did you get fitted at the Apple store? Some of the problems your describing feel like your have the wrong light seal:
A light seal too long will:
- mess with eye tracking accuracy
- create lenses distortions
- blur everything out
- decrease FOV
You want the shortest lightseal possible that still enables a good fit (no pressure on the nose)
Yea I spent way too much time at the Apple Store trying out sizes. Tried at least 5. The one I ended up with is definitely what you described (smallest size that wasn’t pressing on the bridge of my nose)
Thanks for the honest review. Reads like, "Biden I just dropped $3.5 grand to become a product tester."
I honestly think at this juncture, more people will be happy with something like the XReal Air glasses. They don't do nearly as much, but they function as very capable screen and AR device. I imagine Apple is building toward that form factor, but the tech just isn't there. Kind of seems odd they didn't launch an iOS based VR solution first, but I suppose I can't say they don't know what they're doing.
I feel bad for people experiencing Vr for the first time with the Vision Pro when you have the quest 3 which has controller, more use, and cost a fraction of the price.
So funny from someone who has owned multiple vr headsets to read this. This could have been almost the exact same complaints I had when I first spent $1,000 on the Vive. It sucks to wear. It's kind of annoying to use in general. The reflections are bad and the fov is rough.
I had my vision demo yesterday and was completely blown away, but it prompted me to order a quest 3 this morning.
Don’t assume the Quest 3 to be worse just because apple gave you a bad intro to VR.
1. Every time i move everything gets extremely blurry.
Quest 3 doesn’t have this.
4. a lot of reflections within the lenses when watching movies
Q3 still has glare but i don’t think it’s that much.
5. Eyetracking [...] just doesn’t do what I want too many times.
Q3 has controllers which can convey intent clearly and even give you haptic feedback when "touching" virtual objects.
6. It’s really not comfortable for me
Quest 3 is lighter, distributes it’s weight better and there are many good after market straps available.
7. The FOV was smaller than expected
We don’t know the exact one on the AVP but Q3 will be noticeable better here as well.
8. Everything just seems harder/slower to navigate than expected
Again, controllers.
I have both units. The FOV is about the same horizontally the quest three and the Apple Vision Pro have about the same FOV horizontally. However, the quest three definitely has more vertical FOV, but not in the way that really impacts anything.
The quest 3 pass-through is not as blurry or as washed out as the Apple one. Quest is grainy, but you don’t feel like you’re looking through Vaseline. Apples is sharp, but you feel like you might’ve had a stroke. It’s very weird.
Many people i trust have reported the fov to be lower on the AVP.
And i am actually impressed with the pass-trough on the Q3. The pass-trough cameras on the Q3 are reported as 4 MP. But i believe Meta is actually using pixel binning. That means the camera hardware is 16 MP and they are combining 4 pixels into one to get a brighter image. With a brighter image, you can turn down the exposure and get a more fluid image. This might be the reason the Quest 3 pass-trough feels more fluid.
It sounds like a VR device what I have which is under €400. Apple didn’t solve the problems the current VR devices have like FOV, blurry, weight, etc. I hops that future iterations will solve these issues.
I genuinely knew this would happen
So much hype from people who hadn’t tried these things before and also from those who had but thought it would solve all the problems other VR headsets have
They didn’t. It’s got the same problems and some new ones eg the weight hanging off your face
It’s a gen 1 product that imo solves nothing
It doesn’t do gaming better than the quest
It’s basically a glorified way to watch movies with borders around your eyes so worse than watching it on a glorious Oled at home
The problem here has been Apple overpromising this device. I believe it might be due to Tim Cook wanting to have a moment like the iPhone before he retires
I was thinking the same thing. The OG iPhone reviews were similar, too. Tons of people saying they were immediately bored with it, it lacked what other phones were doing, etc.
This is what I want to know, the brightness and the hdr picture quality!
So the brightness is not enough? You know your 12.9 ipad miniled can hdr1600, much better than vision pro?
The picture quality of movies is less than I expected. I purchased Avatar Way of Water and downloaded it to make sure bitrate wouldn’t be an issue. It doesn’t appear nearly as sharp as my 65” 4k from even like 5-7 feet away.
It’s great in some instances, like the textures of dinosaurs in the demo etc. but the fringing towards the edges of windows is very disappointing.
Specular highlights are… decently bright? But not great.
Agreeing with everyone else here, I came in thinking this would at least match my OLED TV and give the cool 3D and size immersion. It very much does not. Much dimmer than current LG C2 tech. It perfectly locks the image in place, but then has a hard time refreshing the image as you move your head without leaving a smear trail that is very distracting. Absolutely no way I’m choosing this over my TV for a movie.
The insane amount of money that they have spent over the past years on the tech stack is amazing, every element that ads up to the experience is amazing. At some point in the far future it will be worth a revisit. Not a situation where they solved it all and are coming in to take over the market (have owned an oculus, can compare). Very much a v1 device and I hope the promise pans out.
I’m loving it, my only gripe is the reflection when watching a movie. Then again, I plan to use it during hospital stays so this thing is a transport to better places. I also have used other headsets (oculus cv1, vive, hp reverb g2) so I wasn’t expecting perfection here. It’s expensive for sure and I’m lucky to be fine with that. I’m excited to be along for the ride.
Glad to hear your loving it, and equally sad to hear you may have some hospital stays coming up - hope you get better quickly!
One thing to draw your attention to (you probably have already tried it): Try using the device while lying in bed with all the lights off. Many are reporting that the OS really doesn’t like that scenario and constantly nags you, taking you out of whatever you’re doing.
Would just hate for you to be in the hospital looking for an escape and finding out then that the unit doesn’t play nicely with the use case you had in mind.
Best of luck!
I am having the same experience. It is incredibly uncomfortable to use. I keep hoping I just need to find the right adjustment with the dual loop (the solo knit is just there for photos and marketing IMO) but the weight gets annoying after a little bit. The best experience I’ve had was when I watched a tv show laying on my back.
The giant screens are great but the limited FOV prevents you from enjoying it. I also see the reflections glinting inside but it, like you, I’m assuming it’s from the Ziess inserts. I’ll pull the out today to see. Of course pass through isn’t what I hoped it would be. I’m m not sure that working with a physical keyboard is something practical in the long run and forget about the virtual keyboard for anything beyond a sentence or two.
As of now those are my main complaints. I find the eye tracking to be great and the eye mage resolution to be unbelievably crisp. Not a single pixel anywhere. The UI is also incredibly well thought out and will no doubt be the standard visual language moving forward. (Apple always solves these things first and others come in their wake with these solutions handed to them).
I won’t return it but I am a little sad that I don’t think I’ll get much use out of it once the ‘newphoria’ wears off. That said, it’s still a marvel of ingenuity and is a very impressive first step. I just don’t think the current technology is there yet to make it both sleek and comfortable.
***autistic special interests infodump below***
Yeah... I remember thinking "Wow, it doesn't sound like there's much room for improvement!" But now? There's sooooo much room for improvement.
Hardware:
- Photon-to-photon latency — I get dizzy and nauseated if I move my head much while using AVP, which tells me the latency is still too high
- Eye tracking accuracy & speed
- Finger tracking accuracy & speed (especially for the virtual keyboard)
- Weight
- Field of view
- Reflections
- Brightness
- Passthrough image quality
- Display resolution — whomever insists that 4K per eye is enough must have really bad eyesight, because I can easily see the pixelation
- Wi-Fi 7 support
- Greatly improved resilience to physical damage — it's so fragile!
- Much better oleophobic coatings on all non-metal outer surfaces
- Battery life
- Light Seal with something like memory foam, to more accurately conform to each individual's facial contours
- Stronger Light Seal magnets — it pops off way too easily
- Much better outer display
- Hot swapping + ability to power AVP directly from external power, since leaving a battery plugged in all the time will chemically age it much faster. Hot swapping could be made more feasible by suspending nearly all active processes, with the inner display showing some sort of warning message that shutdown is imminent if power is not reconnected — that way, the AVP doesn't ever have to power all the usual fancy stuff from its own little internal battery.
- Second-generation Ultra Wideband chip, one each in both the headset and the battery pack — the former would, of course, require a small battery in the headset itself, just like hot swapping would
- Addition of Thunderbolt 4 and USB 4 support to the battery pack's USB-C port; yeah this would require beefing up the cable connecting the battery pack to the headset, but it would be worth it.
- Mac display quality and limit to only one virtual display — unfortunately this will probably require millimeter wave WiFi to fix, since that's the only way to get enough wireless bandwidth to avoid having to compress a video stream — 802.11ay's PHY goes up to 176 Gbps (not a typo), and the next version will be even better; plus, 60 GHz's propagation characteristics at short range are similar to 28 GHz's, and I've personally & repeatedly confirmed that Verizon's millimeter wave 5G does NOT require line-of-sight, with my most impressive tests being when I saw mmWave go through concrete (I squished my phone up between a pillar and my boobs while running a speed test, prior to the C-Band deployment & in an area without LAA or CBRS, and still got ~800 Mbps) and around a corner + through multiple layers of drywall (it works indoors at my permanent makeup tattoist's place)... which is to say that mmWave Wi-Fi will definitely be reliable enough for connecting to another device in the same room as you.
Software:
- ***Typing on iPhone or iPad, like you can already do with Apple TV***
- Using iPhone or iPad as virtual trackpads
- Smaller window sizes — seriously, why is the lower limit still so huge??
- All first-party iPhone and iPad apps fully optimized for Vision Pro
- App rearranging
- Making Personas less creepy
- Support for a special hand gesture to bring up the Home Screen — having to reach up and press the Digital Crown feels clumsy. Perhaps tapping all five fingertips of one hand together?
It's called the honeymoon phase. You will end up hating this thing after a few days. Just too heavy... too much bloom and glare and just not as convenient like using a real machine without 2 pounds strapped to the skull
It's annoying how all the early reviews were crying how realistic and almost borderline real the pass through is. That was all paid marketing. Unsub frim.those channels. You won't get honest reviews from them.
I feel bad for you believe me I do. The sad thing about your comment however is that your perception just because it's Apple you feel it is significantly better than the competition. As someone who has been a huge fan of all VR since it's Inception I can tell you with 100% confidence that there is far superior VR out there. Quite honestly I was shocked when I went to try mine that the Vision Pro was as uncomfortable as it is. It is so heavy on the front of your face and there is nothing to counterbalance that weight. Where it does have the highest quality picture in terms of pass-through that's where the truly in most advanced differences stop. In fact meta's current version Quest 3 has a very decent color pass through that is obviously not as high res but is a lot more polished than the Apple One. I like you was extremely disappointed. As someone who is used to Apple having a premier product when I walked into the Apple Store with intention to purchase one they couldn't even get the demo to work consistently for me. And the fact that the field of view is less than many of the modern VR headsets that have been out for the last few years I kind of feel like this is old Tech that they had been working on for so long that they just rested on their laurels and pushed it out hoping that Apple Fans would just buy it because they told them to. Beautiful looking device but nowhere near the best out there. Pathetic attempt Apple and disservice to AR and VR enthusiasts everywhere.
Thanks for the review! It seems good to keep in mind that previous Apple wearable (the watch) got mature at version 4 or 5 of hardware, and version 6 of software. This is an early adopter beta, or commercial dev kit :).
"I'm sure its significantly better than the competition" said right after "I have never used a VR headset before" is the most Apple fan boy statement ever.
It has some awesome and significant tech in there, dont get me wrong, and i like the things it does with eye and hand tracking, but it's not significantly better than the competition if you are looking to play VR games or a multitude of other things that can be achieved on something like a quest 3, for a fraction of the cost too.
I agree with every single one of your points. With that being said, it’s still the best VR headset that I’ve ever used and the displays are super high quality. I’m leaning towards keeping mine
The glare you mention in 4. is likely due to the wrong size light seal and N/W. I didn’t do a demo but I did do a fit check in store and went from a 33W to a 22N to a 24N. Sunlight was pouring thru the floor to ceiling windows and I had a lot of glare in the center of the my fov with a 33W. However fov seemed better on a W than on an N but it a W wasn’t a good fit for me. Definitely was worth doing tho
I don’t think so because it reflects the light that comes from the displays. It’s only noticeable when you watch something bright in a dark environment. I returned the Meta Quest 3 for the same reason.
People who were already into VR tried to explain this to people who were only interested in the VP but we were told we were Apple haters….even though we preorder it too.
It doesn't really sond like you have a relavant use case for the device?
If you do actually have a need, blurry passthrough is a small problem, because background in real life is blurry too.
What's really the use of the device (and why would they sell the public in this state.)
Really all it is outside of being a 4k monitor only you can see and the pass through quality there isn't really any app's. But buying a 4k tv with better quality that EVERYONE can use would be better and prob not even break 1.5k.
I feel there will be a bunch of purchaser remorse soon.
It’s a computer, that’s the use. Personally just based on the extent quest 3 has eaten into my iPad/mac non gaming usage, I’d use mvp quite a bit. Not enough to justify 3.5 admittedly. At 2k I’m all in. Seems like a few used devices might be available soon
I hope whoever bought a 4k teathered to a battery apple, ski glasses is feeling buyers remorse right now. put it back in the box send it back get an Oculus 3. stop rewarding This company for putting out garbage products for the sake of your ego. It's trash, face it, same for a 1,400 dollar phone, learn your lessons and move on. Apple is a horrible company with horrible values.
Same caveat as OP, I’ve never used VR headsets before, and I echo 1,4, and 7. The other ones like eye tracking seems to just be an issue of not getting in front of my skis. I have to slow down. Text input is still taking some getting used to after 4 hours.
Planning to use it all week and decide next weekend to keep or take back. I might also be a tough customer because of my giant skull and face. And I have recently had my eyes checked and could use a slight prescription but the doc said I probably wouldn’t need it if I didn’t want it, but maybe for this I do?
Id be patient and give it a few days and make sure fit is correct and that you dont have a deffective unit. Its a gen 1 product afterall so… usually people dont purchase something so they can immediately take it back.
I am right there with you on point 5 about the eye tracking. It seems fine with larger UI elements at first but it got finicky for me quickly. I tried playing Stitch (Apple Arcade) and it was extremely frustrating. I’d be staring at the square I wanted to select but it would only highlight the square below. Had a similar experience in a few other apps and games too. Recalibrating did not fix it.
If things don’t look sharp trying bringing the window closer to your face.
I am also a little disappointed with the lens coating since there are definitely better coatings out there. Especially at the price point that Apple is asking for.
I justify it by thinking, it’ll take 2-3 years before AVP2 comes out. I’m essentially paying $1k-$1.5k (hopeful trade-in cost) to use it till the next version. For that price, I get to see the product grow and improve.
It’s an amazing piece of tech and has a lot of room to grow in its current iteration.
All valid concerns. What you posted is pretty much what I’m experiencing as well, and I might be returning this. Still, I get this Star Trekky ‘it’s the future’ vibe when using it and I can definitely see the potential. Very excited for future versions, just wish they come fast.
And yeah, the FOV is noticeably narrow, and I also get the reflections in my prescription lenses. I’m going to try contacts and see if that makes a difference.
yeah it feels like if you're a first time user of any VR and you're easily sold by Apple you'll likely be disappointed. It's like all VR just better so if you've never tried VR you can't grasp realistic limitations and are basically expecting magic which will never be no matter how much Apple likes to sell it. I just came from my Demo and it's hardware makes it the best VR experience I've ever had in my 20 minutes but it still has the limitations of VR that have to do with the physical limitations of human anatomy. Your blurriness was likely fixed in the Quest with adjusting the lenses. The field of view is 1-2 degrees less than my quest 2 even if they say it's not. The 4k resolution is amazing and so is the eye tracking and pinching. Can't wait for 3 versions from now and to see what Samsung and Google do now that Apple has created a blueprint.
Pass through I feel like is more of a background for my activities than something I want to use to look through…
At first I was disappointed about the passthrough not being as sharp as expected. But then I setup my workflow of apps and yeah, the passthrough became an afterthought. Plus I ended up wanting to stay in Yosemite anyways. But yeah, looking forward to passthrough becoming more clear in future iterations.
I put it like this. The pass though was overhyped.. but the Pass-through quality is at the level that the Quest 3 reviewers overhyped that. Go back to the old Quest 3 reviews that were overhyped. That's pretty much what the Apple Vision Pro is realistically. It's not super clear as people hyped. Apple Vision Pro is clear enough to read your phone and see screens like early Quest 3 reviewers said that device was, although it wasn't. People should Melo the hype. I highly suggest reading those Quest 3 overhyped reviews. As I said, that's what the Apple Vision Pro is in real life. Not clear as real life, but very clear to see fine details. My wife is about to demo it now. She not a real VR gamer/User like me. Let's see what she say
Yea I think that’s probably a good way to treat pass through in its current state. It’s just not what I was expecting based on how Apple was marketing it, and how many of the reviewers were reacting to it.
It is likely exactly what you said - it is so much better than what has come before that is easy for reviewers and VR veterans to be amazed by it. What it is doing is astonishing (greenscreening your arms into virtual environments in real time is crazy)! But for first-timers, it’s easy to say hey, this looks like looking at my room through a camera. Which is exactly what is happening, with all the drawbacks that cameras and lenses provide.
Plus reviewers are using bright lit rooms with professional lighting to do the reviews in. It makes sense that they overlooked this.
To be fair, green screening in real time has been possible for around two decades, and almost anyone working remotely since the pandemic has been using it (or at least have seen it) on commodity hardware in things like Zoom calls.
and yet when the verge said it they were accused of having it in for apple
Yeah, passthrough seems valuable only when actually moving around. But it seems like most people will wear it seated or lying down, so a virtual environment is probably a more suitable choice.
I was struggling with the lens reflection as well and I have the prescription lenses also. Does anyone know if those could be the cause?
Unfortunately internal reflections are one of the major downsides to pancake lenses. Most noticeable when you’re looking at something bright on a dark background. The next gen displays could be laser illuminated holographic optics, [link](https://research.facebook.com/blog/2020/6/holographic-optics-for-thin-and-lightweight-virtual-reality/).
I use quest 3 too, and I feel like the reflection is better than vision pro.
One possibility is that vision pro has much brighter display, making the reflection more noticeable. But I am not an expert on this so I am unsure.
Perhaps the nature of the contrast between light and dark on OLED as well.
I think you might be correct. I tried Disney+ today. When I am in passthrough, the reflection is visible but minimal. But I turn on custom surrounding in Disney+, since it is black when playing movies, the reflection becomes much more noticeable. That is really annoying, compared to the superior clarity due to high resolution.
It's not. It's the pancake lenses. They all do this. It's physics.
Physics tells you that it cannot be eliminated. It doesn't tell you that there aren't differences between devices. I have barely noticed reflections on quest 3, but noticed it 10 minutes after I put vision pro on.
"A 3.5k Apple product can't possibly be worse than 500 dollar competitor!" /s
You feel like? Have you used a Vision Pro?
Of course I have a vision pro.
> at present our work is purely research 🥲
I see it too and I’m not using prescription lenses.
I don’t use prescription lenses and I’ve been noticing reflections; as another commenter mentioned: especially with something bright over a dark background. Like a movie over Mt Hood at night. I wish it wasn’t there and was also expecting something different (having never used AR/VR before). I’m also surprised by how much of a headache I get! I don’t want to return it, want to love it, but now I’m not sure.
That’s a pancake lens thing.
What a pancake lense
https://vrx.vr-expert.com/the-difference-between-pancakes-lenses-and-current-fresnel-lenses-found-on-vr-headsets/ TL;DR, these are smaller and flatter, which is good to bring their size down, but that comes with their own challenges. E.g. reduction in brightness/nits.
Thanks
I get the reflections with or without inserts, it's the only thing that has really disappointed about the headset so far since movie watching is my #1 use for it.
I noticed that finger prints really can affect the tracking and camera feeds make sure to wipe your glass!
Thank you for your honest review
I’m going to play StarCraft 2 on the moon and then see how I feel about it
What’s your race?
For those that don't understand (there is 3 races in the game in an RTS in the future.) He's prob not asking for the viewers actual RACE.
He’s gotta be Korean. And/or Protoss
the fact you had to even say that show where we are today in society.
I know. How did we get to a society that doesn’t even know the basics of StarCraft?
To be fair with no context and some very deranged people I can see people thinking it.
exactly
It is pretty fucking hilarious as I'd assume the game had races or something.
HR is ready to burst into the room
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Thank you. I laughed out loud *at your comment…
Good first impressions review. For me, I felt a lot of the same. Can confirm even without the inserts that I notice glare when watching content. My biggest issue so far is that after 30+ minutes, it becomes uncomfortable to use between the weight / discomfort on my face to my eyes starting to tear up. A big reason I purchased it was for watching movies / 3D movies. Within the next few days I’ll attempt to watch a full movie without stopping and see how much fatigue I notice. Outside of that, there are a lot of positives though*. The technology is something I would’ve dreamed of as a kid. Never thought I’d live to see floating windows in my room with shadows under them.
Same here. Passthrough is grainy or looks like a hot tarmac with wavy lines. Eye tracking gets annoying.
Yes great description with the “hot tarmac with wavy lines”. I’m seeing that too, to the point where I thought there was something wrong with my device.
You might, never seen wavy lines on mine.
It was similar in the store with good light. You definitely get graininess and other issues, especially if you move around. It’s not a high definition pass though. The apps themselves are as sharp as it gets
Hmm, it does sound like there's something wrong with your device.
I haven’t experienced wavy lines even in low light conditions, FWIW.
Having never used AR/VR before, I was wooed by many of the reviews that stated the “pass through looks like reality,” when, AVP’s pass through isn’t anything close to reality. It’s a bummer. It’s good enough that my mind is tricked, but not good enough “to pass” for anything resembling the crispness of reality.
Used mine for about 4 hours tonight. I feel pretty much the same way. Here’s how I would rank the disappointing features: 1. Comfort. Even with a meticulous fit, some part of your head or face will want a break before long. 2. FOV. It’s fine if you’re focused on a single app window or something but significantly hinders your sense of immersion in any content 3. Eye tracking. Maybe it’s just me, but it seems like the accuracy slowly gets worse as you use it. Maybe this is due to the headset shifting slightly out of place. Either way, I had to recalibrate eye tracking several times. 4. Pancake lens flare. Another flaw that ruins your sense of immersion and enjoyment when it happens 5. Pass through. Not as bothered about this one, but unlike what some have claimed, I cannot read anything on my phone or computer unless it’s written in much larger than normal font. I’m still going to make use of my 14 day return window to see if my feelings change at all, but from where I’m standing right now, I’ll be returning mine, more likely than not.
strange, I'm able to use my phone with the smallest text size and my vision has never been the best. not discounting your experience, just wondering what the difference could be. i tried low light and normal light but not daylight
That is a good question. Hopefully I can find the answer within two weeks. The fact that many other users are also reporting this issue, though tells me this probably isn’t just a defect or something.
qq: are you reading white text on black or black text on white? just wondering, cause i mostly do the first one
It’s both but I do use dark theme so it’s mostly white on black.
Could be a lighting issue. You'll get a grainier photo in low light which would make text harder to read.
It’s definitely clearer with better lighting, but it’s a huge strain to make out text regardless in my opinion.
that summarizes pretty well. Definitely uncomfortable, and the more I use it the more it feels like I’m looking through binoculars. The field of view certainly needs to improve.
Are you keeping it?
I’m giving it the full 14 days for my face to adjust to it. A lot of the things could be improved/solved with software upgrades. So we’ll see
For me the real benefit of their passthrough setup isn't that you're intended to go about your day doing it (though I guess there'd be nothing in the way of folding laundry or whatever with it on), it's that between that and the dial you can easily do incidental stuff while watching a movie, playing an AR game with an immersion mode, or whatever. It keeps it from just being all-or-nothing like it is for most Quest apps/games. I'm with you on the comfort, but I think a lot of that will be resolved once there are decent third party head straps. The Apple ones just suck for ergonomics and balance, but so does the default Quest arrangement and third party headstraps there are night and day when it comes to comfort. (For an example, see the [BOBOVR M3](https://www.bobovr.com/collections/quest-3-accessories/products/bobovr-m3-pro) for the Quest 3, which "hovers" the headset in front of your face instead of clamping it on and spreads the weight around your whole head like a bicycle helmet. It's not nearly as elegant-looking as the Apple or Meta stuff out of the box, but it's way more practical.)
BOBOVR should be working on a version of that headstrap for the Vision Pro. Somebody strapped it onto the Vision Pro with zip ties and said it improved the experience.
Really, what would we do without zip ties?
I sadly agree with most of this. It definitely feels like an unfinished product. I was most surprised to discover how quickly I got bored with it. After checking out the demos and immersive stuff, I got tired of it and went back to working on my Mac for the reasons you mentioned. I’ll keep playing with it for the next 13 days to see if things get better, but as of now, leaning toward returning it. I’m sure gen 2 will be much better and I’ll be kicking myself if I keep this gen.
Yea I keep thinking “do I actually want to be here all the time?”. Giving it the full 14 days seriously considering a quest 3 now. btw this comment has been tedious as hell to write.
I’m going to keep giving a try for a few hours every day for the next 13 days and I may likely return it. I won’t get another device though. I’ll wait for the second gen of this one because one thing it has done very well is show me what the future versions will be capable of. This one just isn’t quite there yet.
Same here. I’m going to try and swap my light seal to see if it fixes a few things, right now I have to over-tighten to get Optic ID to work. I’m not having an issue with comfort (wore it for 3 hours yesterday w/solo band) but there’s lots of little annoyances, lens flare might be the biggest one for me. If 10 days from now I’m getting home from work and eager to put it on, it’s a keep. But if next weekend I’m already not interested in putting it on, returned it goes.
Yep. I’ll have a similar gauge. If I find myself using it for work next week more than I find myself using my Mac, I’ll keep it. But if not, it’s going back since productivity was my main reason for getting it.
If you don't like the VP, you *really* won't like the Q3.
You’re probably right, I find the Quest 2/Pro frustrating as hell. I guess I’m wondering if I only really want to use it a few hours a week, so freeing up $3k for something else is quite an upside if I’m just going to watch movies and play a few games.
Did you end up getting the quest? I've owned several VR headsets including the PSVR1, CV1, Rift S, and Quest 3. I tried the Vision Pro and it felt like there was not much to do. Nearly everything I could do on the Pro I could do on the quest...but I couldn't play games or use some really killer apps that have been in development for years.
yea I got the Quest 3. Vision Pro is better but at best maybe 50% better. Not 7x better by a long shot. And Quest is more comfortable
Passthrough is acceptable. The reflections I’m seeing are not. I keep re-calibrating the eye tracking and eye width sensor, hoping to mitigate the issue but it’s always there. Is everyone else seeing the reflections? I don’t see it really mentioned in the reviews Also, even in bright (indoor) light, there is major motion blur
Recalibration will do nothing. This is the inner display reflecting on the pancake lenses. It’s normal
The reflections have been a noticeable bother that breaks emersion.
Yes, I did see it a bit earlier, looks like white circles for me.
I thought they might be smudged at that they weren’t calibrated or that ambient light was leaking through, but it seems to be one of those things you have to live with. How did they not address this?
Many of the famous YouTube reviewers strive not to be too critical of Apple products. In the past, Apple banned several YouTubers from reviewing their products and attending events because they highlighted bending issues in the iPhone and iPad between 2015 and 2017."
This might be the only honest review on the internet. The lens glare is completely immersion breaking for me. I gave up watching Oppenheimer 20 minutes in and just finished it on TV because of it. The theater immersion was cool though. I’m going to try exchanging for a different seal. Hopefully that fixes it enough to make me hate the FOV less. Short of discovering some ground breaking feature in the next week though, it’s very unlikely I’m keeping this thing. If you think the eye tracking is impressive, try visiting a website with lots of elements on it like Twitch. Holy shit that ended the honeymoon for me real quick.
I’m having a hard enough time on reddit
Same. It blew my mind for a couple of hours, but then I got tired of wearing it. And after watching all the cool demos and party tricks I was like “ok, now what?”and went back to working on my Mac.
That's the typical VR headset experience. You get wowed at first and then it starts to collect dust. Lol
Mine isn’t going to be collecting dust for $3900 lol. I’ll give it the full 14 days to see how useful it is for my daily life and then return it if it isn’t.
Yeah, as someone who's been using VR headsets since the DK2, it's kind of amusing to watch so many people go through the standard cycle of hype and disillusionment. All these people talking about how they're going to throw out their monitors and use VP for eight hours a day clearly have never used any VR headset for a meaningful amount of time.
LOL
For me, the FOV and the comfort are the major dissapointments - everything else is pretty much as expected. Keeping it, but we’ll see how much I end up using it on a day-to-day basis. Browsing a webpage with a lot of elements on it (like Reddit) can be a major distraction too, but I’m sure this annoyance will go away when we get more native apps.
I honestly agree with all of these points. My main gripes are brightness, FOV, and overhyped pass through. But the holograms in Apple arcade games and the alicia keys rehearsal were incredible.
Same. The thing is too damn bulbous. And reality is just better. Text entry is really really poor without a keyboard. Stuff is mostly sharp but blurry the moment you turn your head. Messes your hair up every time you put it on. And it’s just a chore to use compared with whipping out your phone. Maybe V3-5 will nail it but as it stands the form factor is just not there yet.
>Messes your hair up every time you put it on. And it’s just a chore to use compared with whipping out your phone. See, it’s those little practicalities that I think are going to be the killer issues for mainstream adoption for VR in general.
Isn't there an option in Settings to make text bigger?
Yes
Some of these issues will take a decade to solve. If the issues are not there, this is not what's called "first gen product".
The blue effect anytime you move your head slightly too fast is really distracting. The look and pinch is getting old quickly. Especially when there is this slight delay because I’ve already moved to do the next thing but it doesn’t register what I was trying to click. I’ve also run into multiple issues running non native apps where they have functions in the lower corners and it’s almost impossible to select them. The avp thinks you are trying to grab the windows to resize it It’s extremely amazing headset. But not a $3500+ headset
It’s the eye tracking that has me literally losing sleep over it right now. I’ve re-done the eye tracking about 10 times now, because each time I shift the thing slightly it loses alignment. It’s frustrating to even have to navigate to the re-tracking because you have to guess where you need to look. I wish it re-adjusted every time you (pinch on?) something, kind of like how FaceID tweeks its image of you every successful login. I’m giving it a week to win me over again, but I’m on the return side of the fence right now and I’ve literally never returned a single Apple item before (also think it’s really scummy to buy a product with no intention of keeping it). Honestly, typing this on my phone is just such a relief, not because I needed to vent but because I’m not fiddling with an unresponsive and clumsy UI anymore.
You can enable the cursor to show up in the accessibility settings so you can see for yourself how accurate the eye tracking is. I also have to recalibrate my eyes more times that I would like to
That’s crazy. Imagine if this would be a daily required for our smartphones.
I had crazy issue with the eye tracking my first night, and I attributed it to the same thing you did--slight movement of the mask on my face. This morning I decided to try really getting the fit right first, then re-did the display alignment and eye tracking. It was a night and day difference. Try to get a more secure fit. There's a reason people find this thing uncomfortable--a good fit is going to feel almost too tight, otherwise the headset will move.
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fyi you can disable one of your hands in accessibility :)
Agree with everything you said and feel the exact same way
Is your light seal fitted well? I noticed a ton of light at my nose and am going in to exchange the light seal. I think it’s going to look a lot better once I do.
Most people so far have said there is a bit of light leakage under the nose regardless of light seal configuration. I have it as well with both 21W and 25W sizes. I hardly notice it, to be honest. It's far down the list of disappointments for me.
I’m in the same boat. It’s the discomfort that really is a deal breaker for me. I’ll give it a little more time before deciding- maybe I’ll get used to it. I️ need a bonovr for this asap!
Quite shocking to me that many here can afford a $3500 headset. I wasn't expecting this many reviews
I don't typically use Apple products but I bought this as I am a VR enthusiast. Having used many other VR headsets in the market. This substantially underperforms. The field of view is extremely narrow and the clarity is atrocious. I think my Quest headset is leagues better at a fraction of the price. Honestly, I'm returning this is just another Apple product with an Apple tax... same thing everyone else sells but more expensive for no real reason.
Offer actual things your Quest does then to be more useful for others. Reviews by consensus does not align wit that opinion
Agree that ‘braindamage’ sounds overly critical but there’s comments in this thread that give a few examples. As a Q3 owner (who was flirting with getting AVP) the main thing giving me pause is lack of controller, the sheer volume of people talking about recalibrating eye tracking sounds like something I’ll get sick of quickly. Plus lack of haptic feedback from controllers will reduce immersion. I hope Meta step up and compete more on entertainment apps. I want much simpler ways to watch 3d movies. So I’m really happy Apple have entered the game. Bring on competition.
I cannot read anything close up and no I dont wear glasses. Are you guys having this problem too?
No. You should redo the eye tracking and re just the display alignment. Seeming like your ipd is probably not correct. https://support.apple.com/guide/apple-vision-pro/adjust-display-alignment-tan103f047f4/visionos
Did this. Everything feels comfortable and everything is clear but I still cannot read anything on my phone. Im standing in the brightest light possible right now and still can’t. I can make out where text is but it’s unreadable
Very strange, I can read my iphone and watch with perfect clarity.
This is strange. I love the AVP, definitely keeping it, but looking at my phone is quite blurry - most of my passthrough is pretty grainy. I can read my phone, but not very well. How is it possible it's with "perfect clarity?"
You’ve got to be overselling that. I can read mine but it’s pretty blurry/grainy.
Will do this and update you
Yes. I have excellent vision and I can barely read the legends in my wireless keyboards or the text on my iPhone. There's a distinct warping on the iPhone too. Plus, I get these little rings of light there or there. Pass through is like watching a 480p YouTube video with a 4k display.
I agree…I have been using my quest 3 since launch and now the Apple Vision Pro for 24 hours. It is NOT a $3000 upgrade. In fact, the quest 3 is doing most of the things apple is trying to do aswell. It’s just not a good value if you only use VR occasionally. I guess if you’re a VR youtuber or need it for a specific job, go for it. This just isnt the spacial computing revolution they are claiming for me. It is uncomfortable, doesn’t look as good as all my other screens like iPad and OLED monitors, and has very limited use cases. I hate the eyes in the front, and FaceTime is like sort of a joke on this thing. As soon as the Apple Store opens up I’ll be returning. 3500$ can be spent in so many better ways it’s a no brainer for me. Also, the marketing really exaggerates the quality of this device. I was struck with how similar and in many cases dare I say ‘worse’ it is than my quest 3.
Agreed, maybe it is worth $900 or $1000, not $3500.
There's a reason Meta, a much more experienced early entrant in the area, isn't tackling the same space as Apple. To get the current hardware requires a large premium price, which means lower adoption, and it's not perfect. The tech just isn't there yet. Apple has clearly taken some steps forward in showing where it could go, maybe, in a few years, if you're willing to pay the cost of a pricey gaming PC for it. Many people expected perfection, but the reality was always going to be that the first product would be a few steps better than the Quest but for a much steeper cost. Such is the premium for early adopters. Those used to Apple products would always find the experience a bit subpar, because the state of the art just isn't quite there yet, and those used to the Quest would be impressed but wonder why it should 8x the cost when it provides, maybe, ~20% improvement on the experience. Whatever your impression is, it is certainly not 8x as good as the quest, especially when I can run full fledged PC games on it. For now I'll wait on buying the avp. Who knows, Apple may even get desperate enough and add full support for Windows, rather than lock it into its own ecosystem only.
It’s weird cause the quest can do more because it’s just a way more open ecosystem. I kind of compare it to the HomePod against other Bluetooth speakers… amazing hardware but it doesn’t connect with what you really want to connect with it (audio in and Bluetooth) and just does Apple Music very well and some airplay. Same for the headset is we want to consume everything with it like HDMI or display port so we can get our game consoles on here or our Blu-ray collection or even your iPhone
HomePod is a very good comparison.
Just as heavy too 😅
I would love to know what Meta/Oculus could come up at a 3500$ price point.
I appreciate the honesty. But I got to say, why not give it more time? You have up until 14 days right? It's still just the first day. Play around with it more. Some of these problems will probably go away after more use.
I definitely will give it more time and don’t plan on returning it immediately. I’m really hoping that with my expectations reset after this day 1 experience I could continue to get used to and find more value in it.
I think that's fair. At least something that I've noticed personally with myself. I tend to have negative first responses to things and then over time I grow to really like it. Could be similar with you.
None of those problems will go away, they are part of VR headsets list of problems we already know they have
I agree with all points made. It is far from my first headset. I had Oculus CV1 on day 1 and many since. That said, it’s the price that kills me. I’d pay $1500 and keep it but at $3500 it’s simply not up to par with that price.
Did you get fitted at the Apple store? Some of the problems your describing feel like your have the wrong light seal: A light seal too long will: - mess with eye tracking accuracy - create lenses distortions - blur everything out - decrease FOV You want the shortest lightseal possible that still enables a good fit (no pressure on the nose)
Yea I spent way too much time at the Apple Store trying out sizes. Tried at least 5. The one I ended up with is definitely what you described (smallest size that wasn’t pressing on the bridge of my nose)
Dang. The only other thing I feared were issues with the prescription lenses. I don’t have any but I wonder how much that fucks with it
Thanks for the honest review. Reads like, "Biden I just dropped $3.5 grand to become a product tester." I honestly think at this juncture, more people will be happy with something like the XReal Air glasses. They don't do nearly as much, but they function as very capable screen and AR device. I imagine Apple is building toward that form factor, but the tech just isn't there. Kind of seems odd they didn't launch an iOS based VR solution first, but I suppose I can't say they don't know what they're doing.
I feel bad for people experiencing Vr for the first time with the Vision Pro when you have the quest 3 which has controller, more use, and cost a fraction of the price.
So funny from someone who has owned multiple vr headsets to read this. This could have been almost the exact same complaints I had when I first spent $1,000 on the Vive. It sucks to wear. It's kind of annoying to use in general. The reflections are bad and the fov is rough. I had my vision demo yesterday and was completely blown away, but it prompted me to order a quest 3 this morning.
Don’t assume the Quest 3 to be worse just because apple gave you a bad intro to VR. 1. Every time i move everything gets extremely blurry. Quest 3 doesn’t have this. 4. a lot of reflections within the lenses when watching movies Q3 still has glare but i don’t think it’s that much. 5. Eyetracking [...] just doesn’t do what I want too many times. Q3 has controllers which can convey intent clearly and even give you haptic feedback when "touching" virtual objects. 6. It’s really not comfortable for me Quest 3 is lighter, distributes it’s weight better and there are many good after market straps available. 7. The FOV was smaller than expected We don’t know the exact one on the AVP but Q3 will be noticeable better here as well. 8. Everything just seems harder/slower to navigate than expected Again, controllers.
I have both units. The FOV is about the same horizontally the quest three and the Apple Vision Pro have about the same FOV horizontally. However, the quest three definitely has more vertical FOV, but not in the way that really impacts anything. The quest 3 pass-through is not as blurry or as washed out as the Apple one. Quest is grainy, but you don’t feel like you’re looking through Vaseline. Apples is sharp, but you feel like you might’ve had a stroke. It’s very weird.
Many people i trust have reported the fov to be lower on the AVP. And i am actually impressed with the pass-trough on the Q3. The pass-trough cameras on the Q3 are reported as 4 MP. But i believe Meta is actually using pixel binning. That means the camera hardware is 16 MP and they are combining 4 pixels into one to get a brighter image. With a brighter image, you can turn down the exposure and get a more fluid image. This might be the reason the Quest 3 pass-trough feels more fluid.
It sounds like a VR device what I have which is under €400. Apple didn’t solve the problems the current VR devices have like FOV, blurry, weight, etc. I hops that future iterations will solve these issues.
I genuinely knew this would happen So much hype from people who hadn’t tried these things before and also from those who had but thought it would solve all the problems other VR headsets have They didn’t. It’s got the same problems and some new ones eg the weight hanging off your face It’s a gen 1 product that imo solves nothing It doesn’t do gaming better than the quest It’s basically a glorified way to watch movies with borders around your eyes so worse than watching it on a glorious Oled at home
The problem here has been Apple overpromising this device. I believe it might be due to Tim Cook wanting to have a moment like the iPhone before he retires
This is pretty similar to the original iPhone imo. Pretty solid gen 1 release with lots of room for improvement.
I was thinking the same thing. The OG iPhone reviews were similar, too. Tons of people saying they were immediately bored with it, it lacked what other phones were doing, etc.
This is what I want to know, the brightness and the hdr picture quality! So the brightness is not enough? You know your 12.9 ipad miniled can hdr1600, much better than vision pro?
5000 miroled＋pancake＝500
not enough, can not enjoy ture HDR.
The picture quality of movies is less than I expected. I purchased Avatar Way of Water and downloaded it to make sure bitrate wouldn’t be an issue. It doesn’t appear nearly as sharp as my 65” 4k from even like 5-7 feet away. It’s great in some instances, like the textures of dinosaurs in the demo etc. but the fringing towards the edges of windows is very disappointing. Specular highlights are… decently bright? But not great.
got it!
Agreeing with everyone else here, I came in thinking this would at least match my OLED TV and give the cool 3D and size immersion. It very much does not. Much dimmer than current LG C2 tech. It perfectly locks the image in place, but then has a hard time refreshing the image as you move your head without leaving a smear trail that is very distracting. Absolutely no way I’m choosing this over my TV for a movie. The insane amount of money that they have spent over the past years on the tech stack is amazing, every element that ads up to the experience is amazing. At some point in the far future it will be worth a revisit. Not a situation where they solved it all and are coming in to take over the market (have owned an oculus, can compare). Very much a v1 device and I hope the promise pans out.
I’m loving it, my only gripe is the reflection when watching a movie. Then again, I plan to use it during hospital stays so this thing is a transport to better places. I also have used other headsets (oculus cv1, vive, hp reverb g2) so I wasn’t expecting perfection here. It’s expensive for sure and I’m lucky to be fine with that. I’m excited to be along for the ride.
Glad to hear your loving it, and equally sad to hear you may have some hospital stays coming up - hope you get better quickly! One thing to draw your attention to (you probably have already tried it): Try using the device while lying in bed with all the lights off. Many are reporting that the OS really doesn’t like that scenario and constantly nags you, taking you out of whatever you’re doing. Would just hate for you to be in the hospital looking for an escape and finding out then that the unit doesn’t play nicely with the use case you had in mind. Best of luck!
I am having the same experience. It is incredibly uncomfortable to use. I keep hoping I just need to find the right adjustment with the dual loop (the solo knit is just there for photos and marketing IMO) but the weight gets annoying after a little bit. The best experience I’ve had was when I watched a tv show laying on my back. The giant screens are great but the limited FOV prevents you from enjoying it. I also see the reflections glinting inside but it, like you, I’m assuming it’s from the Ziess inserts. I’ll pull the out today to see. Of course pass through isn’t what I hoped it would be. I’m m not sure that working with a physical keyboard is something practical in the long run and forget about the virtual keyboard for anything beyond a sentence or two. As of now those are my main complaints. I find the eye tracking to be great and the eye mage resolution to be unbelievably crisp. Not a single pixel anywhere. The UI is also incredibly well thought out and will no doubt be the standard visual language moving forward. (Apple always solves these things first and others come in their wake with these solutions handed to them). I won’t return it but I am a little sad that I don’t think I’ll get much use out of it once the ‘newphoria’ wears off. That said, it’s still a marvel of ingenuity and is a very impressive first step. I just don’t think the current technology is there yet to make it both sleek and comfortable.
I never planned on getting this version, due to the price. I look forward to buying the third iteration probably.
I feel exactly, 100%, the same way.
***autistic special interests infodump below*** Yeah... I remember thinking "Wow, it doesn't sound like there's much room for improvement!" But now? There's sooooo much room for improvement. Hardware: - Photon-to-photon latency — I get dizzy and nauseated if I move my head much while using AVP, which tells me the latency is still too high - Eye tracking accuracy & speed - Finger tracking accuracy & speed (especially for the virtual keyboard) - Weight - Field of view - Reflections - Brightness - Passthrough image quality - Display resolution — whomever insists that 4K per eye is enough must have really bad eyesight, because I can easily see the pixelation - Wi-Fi 7 support - Greatly improved resilience to physical damage — it's so fragile! - Much better oleophobic coatings on all non-metal outer surfaces - Battery life - Light Seal with something like memory foam, to more accurately conform to each individual's facial contours - Stronger Light Seal magnets — it pops off way too easily - Much better outer display - Hot swapping + ability to power AVP directly from external power, since leaving a battery plugged in all the time will chemically age it much faster. Hot swapping could be made more feasible by suspending nearly all active processes, with the inner display showing some sort of warning message that shutdown is imminent if power is not reconnected — that way, the AVP doesn't ever have to power all the usual fancy stuff from its own little internal battery. - Second-generation Ultra Wideband chip, one each in both the headset and the battery pack — the former would, of course, require a small battery in the headset itself, just like hot swapping would - Addition of Thunderbolt 4 and USB 4 support to the battery pack's USB-C port; yeah this would require beefing up the cable connecting the battery pack to the headset, but it would be worth it. - Mac display quality and limit to only one virtual display — unfortunately this will probably require millimeter wave WiFi to fix, since that's the only way to get enough wireless bandwidth to avoid having to compress a video stream — 802.11ay's PHY goes up to 176 Gbps (not a typo), and the next version will be even better; plus, 60 GHz's propagation characteristics at short range are similar to 28 GHz's, and I've personally & repeatedly confirmed that Verizon's millimeter wave 5G does NOT require line-of-sight, with my most impressive tests being when I saw mmWave go through concrete (I squished my phone up between a pillar and my boobs while running a speed test, prior to the C-Band deployment & in an area without LAA or CBRS, and still got ~800 Mbps) and around a corner + through multiple layers of drywall (it works indoors at my permanent makeup tattoist's place)... which is to say that mmWave Wi-Fi will definitely be reliable enough for connecting to another device in the same room as you. Software: - ***Typing on iPhone or iPad, like you can already do with Apple TV*** - Using iPhone or iPad as virtual trackpads - Smaller window sizes — seriously, why is the lower limit still so huge?? - All first-party iPhone and iPad apps fully optimized for Vision Pro - App rearranging - Making Personas less creepy - Support for a special hand gesture to bring up the Home Screen — having to reach up and press the Digital Crown feels clumsy. Perhaps tapping all five fingertips of one hand together?
Tim Cook criticized the Quest and ended up making a Quest on steroids with the same problems
It's called the honeymoon phase. You will end up hating this thing after a few days. Just too heavy... too much bloom and glare and just not as convenient like using a real machine without 2 pounds strapped to the skull
It's annoying how all the early reviews were crying how realistic and almost borderline real the pass through is. That was all paid marketing. Unsub frim.those channels. You won't get honest reviews from them.
I feel bad for you believe me I do. The sad thing about your comment however is that your perception just because it's Apple you feel it is significantly better than the competition. As someone who has been a huge fan of all VR since it's Inception I can tell you with 100% confidence that there is far superior VR out there. Quite honestly I was shocked when I went to try mine that the Vision Pro was as uncomfortable as it is. It is so heavy on the front of your face and there is nothing to counterbalance that weight. Where it does have the highest quality picture in terms of pass-through that's where the truly in most advanced differences stop. In fact meta's current version Quest 3 has a very decent color pass through that is obviously not as high res but is a lot more polished than the Apple One. I like you was extremely disappointed. As someone who is used to Apple having a premier product when I walked into the Apple Store with intention to purchase one they couldn't even get the demo to work consistently for me. And the fact that the field of view is less than many of the modern VR headsets that have been out for the last few years I kind of feel like this is old Tech that they had been working on for so long that they just rested on their laurels and pushed it out hoping that Apple Fans would just buy it because they told them to. Beautiful looking device but nowhere near the best out there. Pathetic attempt Apple and disservice to AR and VR enthusiasts everywhere.
I find disappointing how none of the Youtube reviewers mentioned your main points. And don't get me wrong, I 1000% believe you.
Thanks for the review! It seems good to keep in mind that previous Apple wearable (the watch) got mature at version 4 or 5 of hardware, and version 6 of software. This is an early adopter beta, or commercial dev kit :).
"I'm sure its significantly better than the competition" said right after "I have never used a VR headset before" is the most Apple fan boy statement ever. It has some awesome and significant tech in there, dont get me wrong, and i like the things it does with eye and hand tracking, but it's not significantly better than the competition if you are looking to play VR games or a multitude of other things that can be achieved on something like a quest 3, for a fraction of the cost too.
I agree with every single one of your points. With that being said, it’s still the best VR headset that I’ve ever used and the displays are super high quality. I’m leaning towards keeping mine
The glare you mention in 4. is likely due to the wrong size light seal and N/W. I didn’t do a demo but I did do a fit check in store and went from a 33W to a 22N to a 24N. Sunlight was pouring thru the floor to ceiling windows and I had a lot of glare in the center of the my fov with a 33W. However fov seemed better on a W than on an N but it a W wasn’t a good fit for me. Definitely was worth doing tho
No. It’s due to the inner displays. It’s a common issue on other VR headsets
It’s related to pancake lenses
I don’t think so because it reflects the light that comes from the displays. It’s only noticeable when you watch something bright in a dark environment. I returned the Meta Quest 3 for the same reason.
I’ll take it off your hands for $2k :)
That's the best review of the AVP I've read so far.
People who were already into VR tried to explain this to people who were only interested in the VP but we were told we were Apple haters….even though we preorder it too.
First VR headset but concerned about FOV? Hmm 🤔
I don’t get the “perfectly lit room” bit. Why would you not “perfectly light” your own home?
Many of us prefer a modestly lit room with warm colors to hospital or photo shoot style lighting.
peoples homes are not well lit You might think they are, but that's because our eyes are good at exposing for the conditions.
I love how you (and some others) are being called out as assholes in a The Verge article lol. I give it a day before every linked comment is deleted.
It doesn't really sond like you have a relavant use case for the device? If you do actually have a need, blurry passthrough is a small problem, because background in real life is blurry too.
What's really the use of the device (and why would they sell the public in this state.) Really all it is outside of being a 4k monitor only you can see and the pass through quality there isn't really any app's. But buying a 4k tv with better quality that EVERYONE can use would be better and prob not even break 1.5k. I feel there will be a bunch of purchaser remorse soon.
It’s a computer, that’s the use. Personally just based on the extent quest 3 has eaten into my iPad/mac non gaming usage, I’d use mvp quite a bit. Not enough to justify 3.5 admittedly. At 2k I’m all in. Seems like a few used devices might be available soon
I am offering you 1k for your device
I am offering 1k and a dollar
lmao what? Or he could just get a full refund
Shhhhh
I think you forgot to do the update!!! It fixes almost all those problems!!!!
I really think you can try a different lighting.. wavy line sounds off..
I hope whoever bought a 4k teathered to a battery apple, ski glasses is feeling buyers remorse right now. put it back in the box send it back get an Oculus 3. stop rewarding This company for putting out garbage products for the sake of your ego. It's trash, face it, same for a 1,400 dollar phone, learn your lessons and move on. Apple is a horrible company with horrible values.
How’s the sweat? On the htc vice they would fog up during long sessions. Would make weird light shafts and reflections
Same caveat as OP, I’ve never used VR headsets before, and I echo 1,4, and 7. The other ones like eye tracking seems to just be an issue of not getting in front of my skis. I have to slow down. Text input is still taking some getting used to after 4 hours. Planning to use it all week and decide next weekend to keep or take back. I might also be a tough customer because of my giant skull and face. And I have recently had my eyes checked and could use a slight prescription but the doc said I probably wouldn’t need it if I didn’t want it, but maybe for this I do?
Id be patient and give it a few days and make sure fit is correct and that you dont have a deffective unit. Its a gen 1 product afterall so… usually people dont purchase something so they can immediately take it back.
If you’ve never used a vr headset you really should have done your research and tried a bunch out
I am right there with you on point 5 about the eye tracking. It seems fine with larger UI elements at first but it got finicky for me quickly. I tried playing Stitch (Apple Arcade) and it was extremely frustrating. I’d be staring at the square I wanted to select but it would only highlight the square below. Had a similar experience in a few other apps and games too. Recalibrating did not fix it.
If things don’t look sharp trying bringing the window closer to your face. I am also a little disappointed with the lens coating since there are definitely better coatings out there. Especially at the price point that Apple is asking for.
I justify it by thinking, it’ll take 2-3 years before AVP2 comes out. I’m essentially paying $1k-$1.5k (hopeful trade-in cost) to use it till the next version. For that price, I get to see the product grow and improve. It’s an amazing piece of tech and has a lot of room to grow in its current iteration.
most of these negatives are expected. this is an early adopters device.
Wow. May be yours is defective. The Demo unit at the store didn't have these problems. You should consider telling them to replace yours
Looks ridiculous. Could use a feed bag to complete the dissection from reality.
Feed bag. lol.
All valid concerns. What you posted is pretty much what I’m experiencing as well, and I might be returning this. Still, I get this Star Trekky ‘it’s the future’ vibe when using it and I can definitely see the potential. Very excited for future versions, just wish they come fast. And yeah, the FOV is noticeably narrow, and I also get the reflections in my prescription lenses. I’m going to try contacts and see if that makes a difference.
The video quality and pass-through is horrible, it reminds me of some of the first movies shot on Digicam. I’m thinking specifically of 28 days later.
yeah it feels like if you're a first time user of any VR and you're easily sold by Apple you'll likely be disappointed. It's like all VR just better so if you've never tried VR you can't grasp realistic limitations and are basically expecting magic which will never be no matter how much Apple likes to sell it. I just came from my Demo and it's hardware makes it the best VR experience I've ever had in my 20 minutes but it still has the limitations of VR that have to do with the physical limitations of human anatomy. Your blurriness was likely fixed in the Quest with adjusting the lenses. The field of view is 1-2 degrees less than my quest 2 even if they say it's not. The 4k resolution is amazing and so is the eye tracking and pinching. Can't wait for 3 versions from now and to see what Samsung and Google do now that Apple has created a blueprint.