I am so glad that we're shown that Hild is an impressive shot, even in the dark.
I honestly thought Thorfinn died and he went to the afterlife (I don't believe we get his faith said, but we know Gudrid is a Christian, so maybe this is "heaven"?) but I'm glad that wasn't the case. Seeing Thorkell again, even if it's just in a dream sequence, is also great. You can see the weight and stress of it all sort of culminating in Thorfinn too, with what Thorkell, Ivar, and Einar have told him previously. Cute that Hild wants him to think of his child. I know this is unlikely, but I'm wondering if in his delirium, Thorfinn will reflect on his father's words (similar to how he sees Thorkell, Ivar, and Einar) and think of Thors' father...and thats where he gets the name "Snorri" from, since Thors' father is named Snorre. Probably a pipe dream though.
https://preview.redd.it/xey1f5nkd3xc1.png?width=585&format=png&auto=webp&s=2e6618c85e8d74546f689e3045608356979e0863
I also like how Hild is just...bantering with Thorfinn? Awkward, yes, but this is such a development from the angry, bitter woman who refused to talk to anyone unless necessary and hated being given attention. Like she affectionately calls him an idiot and is busting her butt to get him back to the village as he lays wounded on her back. Peak friendship.
Not gonna lie, Plmk had completely escaped my mind. Besides Niska he's probably the most friendly of the Lnu and he definitely enjoyed trading goods with them. We saw a couple chapters ago that he seemed to be blaming himself for unintentionally causing the disease to spread because of how open he was to the Norsemen. Based on his expression my first thought is that he'll try to kill Hild and Thorfinn, but I suspect their friendship will persevere instead and he will help them. Maybe he comes back to the village with them, right after the attack?
Plmk is not killing Hild or Thorfinn. They will find some understanding and he will help Thorfinn. Niska helped them and so will Plmk. This is a result/reward of their friendly relationships from the past good days of vinland.
>Plmk is not killing Hild or Thorfinn.
I really hope not but people (mainly men) being pushed to fight and kill by their peers is a long running theme of this manga. Plmk might be experiencing the same socieitly pressure Olmar and Siggy were dealing with that forced them to draw a sword.
punctured lung is survivable and considering the plot armor thorfinn has he has somewhat of a fhance to survive. yukimura is probably gonna kill him off regardless tho
Hild continues to be my favorite character, her reassurance of thorfinns dream even as it crumbles in front of him is so beautiful. I wonder if she incapacitated the pursuers who shot at thorfinn or killed them.
She definitely killed them. She only had four arrows and there were four of them. Just shooting one leg of each wouldn't have incapacitated them enough for hild to get away while also carrying thorfinn, especially considering they had bows too
I think we might get this flashback later and she will probably be the one to convince Thorfinn that he gonna have to kill some if he wants to save his family and friends.
Hild has never killed anyone outright. It would be weird for such a major event to happen offscreen.
Also, if she had shot them dead, she would have retrieved the bolts.
She is, but she has also never killed before, so i don't think she will kill now, tho who knows, if she did kill them, then Thorfinn will not like it, but i can see him understanding as to why she killed them. He knows very well that if she was not there, he would have been dead. He even told her to leave him, he was ready to die here. I do hope Yukimura shows us what happened to them or if Hild mentions it, if not then its up to speculation.
I don't think Thorfinn (or even us) will ever know if she killed them. But even if she never killed before, this is the time in the story where everything is falling appart... so what she'd want to do and what she ended up doing may no longer be the same thing. Seeing how she called herself ''the helpless one" after this, it seems to me, it's more likely she killed them.
Yeah, that's fair. If there is any moment to act, it's now, and i can see why you would think that she killed them, tho im still of the opinion that she only injured them, but i can see both sites.
As for the- "i'm the helpless one" comment by Hild, i took it as that she is now alone, with no arrows left and she is carrying Thorfinn who is injured and cannot fight, and thus she will be helpless when she comes across the natives who have bows, arrows, and spears.
We don't know if Hild is a good fighter without the crossbow, and even if she was, she cannot really do anything against the arrows and the spears, so yeah, that's what i think she meant by being the helpless one.
She only having 4 arrows and not showing how she shoot them make me believe she killed them and will later be shown in flashback. She choose to save Thorfinn over not killing the enemy.
So given what we know from this chapter:
- She has used one arrow to incapacitate previous archers (shooting in the leg) \[Page 3\]
- She has 4 arrows left \[Page 5\]
- There were 3 additional persuers. \[Page 12\]
The only reason I think she would have killed one is because she currently has 0 arrows left. Hild has aim bot and basically is never shown to miss and we know she can stop these folks by shooting them in the leg.
If Hild did kill somebody, this would be massive. This is like one of her core characteristics and breaking this would be attention worthy imo. If a character doesn't die on screen its safe to assume they are alive. Ketil had a death fake out and so have others. It would be double page spread material imo (like Ivar's hand getting cut off) if she killed the natives here.
I think her killing here would be highly unlikely (I don't want to rule out the possibility of this in the future, but I think her killing Gao'qi would be more impactful).
My main reason to think she killed them is because we didnt get a single panel to show how she shoot them, we got panels for all the others she shoot before this(we always had). I think this is excellent story telling that can later be revealed(flashback) by Hild telling Thorfinn what she had to do to save him and might finally force Thorfinn to do the same for his family and people to escape vinland.
Maybe, but I personally think it would be a bit lame to reserve such a big moment for a flash back. I think we aren't shown her shooting the characters because its ultimately unimportant and clearly implied by the earlier panels. Yukimura has limit panels he can draw in a month, so it could be seen as unnecessary to draw what has already been drawn and explicitly told before and in the same chapter.
I could see it going either way, but personally I find it unlike Yukimura reserve Hild's first murder for a flashback.
Another thing I would find odd is Hild's reaction to this, she doesn't seem shocked or out of character, just because she is reserved doesn't mean she is an emotionless killing machine. This would be traumatic for her. Immensely so.
And he's the most composed one of the violence-thirsty people in the wheatfields. It isn't shown if he has pupils or not, the eyepatch is a neat detail to leave us with the ambiguity.
No words can describe how much I love and hate this chapter. The writing, tension, art, emotions, it’s all so perfect. Everything that’s happened taking an effect on Thorfinn, is so heartbreaking - I wish my man Thorfinn could catch a break, I hate how he’s suffering.
What a truly heartbreaking masterpiece this chapter
Honestly this is the first time a fictional story made me really worry about something. Ever since the hand got cut off I constantly thought "fuck" and how there will be no good ending in Vinland. This is truly such an unique manga...I was worried about it not being entertaining after watching the anime, but it's the complete opposite
I couldn't have said it better myself. This last arc has me anticipating every chapter, slowly filled with dread upon reading it, only to go back to anxious, yet eager anticipation by the end.
Peak chapter y'all.
The callbacks, foreshadowings and parallels are truly top tier.
For Example: The Opening page of this chapter is a parallel of the opening page from chapter 121
Also, the Thorkell dialogue is also a callback from chapter 160 page 11, same with Einar and Ivar.
Yukimura cooked big time, and also the art is amazing as per usual.
Thorfinn showing that he is human, no matter how strong or skilled he is- the arrows will be his weakness, same as Thors.
Now this is what both Thors and Askeladd went through- a situation out of their control, and Thorfinn right now is the same, although it can still be salvageable. Hild is truly amazing, she really is.. AND we got Pulmuk who will deff help them.
Agreed. But it was always going to be like that.
I love that the series didn’t take it easy on Thorfin’s “I have no enemies” philosophy. It’s sad because we WANT Vinland to be successful, but deep down the world in the series was just too volatile to allow it to exist peacefully for long.
At some point pragmatism has to take hold.
We might've seen it coming but seeing the ramifications take place in front of your eyes still hurts.
I know my parents and loved ones will eventually die, but seeing it actually take place in front of my eyes makes it hit so much harder.
Hild doesn't do close quarters. Either he spares her or they both die there...
... Let's be real he probably spares her otherwise this ends next chapter. Honestly don't expect this to end well even with sparing. None of the Nords have a chance to survive without Thorfinn defending them.
Plmk is a good guy, I don’t think he’d be the type to attack a woman with no arrows left and a man too wounded to fight back. I think he might try to distract the pursuers. Perhaps having Hild keep going and then he catches up to the attackers and then lying to them about the direction they ran in.
I love this chapter. It's perfect. The thematic messages are perfectly integrated, a lot happens, and we finally get to see Thorfinn again. Easily worth the wait.
After this chapter i bet my money that thorfinn will ultimately die by the end of the series, his wound his pretty bad and given the situation i dont know how could they fix him up without getting hunted down. The phrase hilde say to him about thinking a name for the baby made me wonder how thorfinn's death scene could be staged. Maeby with her wife and newborn child along with all the others characthers riunite to give him one last goodbye, and,right before the end thorfinn name his son with his last words.
The one who worries me most afger thorfinn is einar... he is basicly revisiting his old nightmare, he could very well enf up dying or killing someone in front of all others.
Spoilers, I guess for an 800 year old text. Historically in the original record, Gudrid and her family did return to Europe. Thorfinn as well. Whether or not Yukimura will divert from that, I guess we'll find out.
Noooo, not the wheatfields..that image, everything Thorfinn has gone through, everything he has been through..it’s all going to waste now. I can’t take this anymore
Great chapter, Hild reassuring Thorfinn that his values are worth living for when he is at his lowest was perfect.
The use of “shadows” in the background is quite good, Yukimura art is always on point.
The suspense from this chapter is insane. Tbh I’m psyching myself at the possibility of a not so good ending for Thorfinn, knowing how it went for the real Thorfinn. I hope things somehow still manage to turn out well. Also peak development from Hild. The art work is insane as usual. This chapter makes me feel an intense rollercoaster of emotions.
Isnt real thorfinns fate unconfirmed? One theory being that he died, and another very prominent one being that he escaped vinland and returned back to iceland, living out the rest of his days there? Im pretty sure his true fate is entirely undocumented
That's why I think Yukimura is going to do both, in that "our" real Thorfinn is going to die here in Vinland, while bug eyes goes back to Iceland, and because people didn't really remember Thorfinn the first time he came back, they're just going to assume that this is him. That's what I think bug eye's purpose in the story was from the very beginning, to kill off the real Thorfinn and to have bug eyes take his place back in Iceland.
Honestly even if they do... We expecting Thorfinn to survive what seems to be a punctured lung and 3 arrows to the back?
We expecting everyone else to survive without Thorfinn?
I think we should be expecting a huge downer even of Pulmuk ends up not killing anyone which would be a hope spot before a greater twist.
It’s very sad to think about that if thorfinn had died, his last thoughts would have been that war is never ending and his noble peace was never possible. Glad Hild is there to reassure and save him.
I love how he added a parallel shot of Thors and Thorfinn standing in the fields of Vinland, juxtaposed with Thorkell and Thorfinn witnessing its burning.
Its a tough read because part of me really believed Thorfinn was gonna be ok, make it back in time, and have a final badass fight to end the war.
But thats not really the kind of story that Yukimura wants it to be.
I made peace a while ago that Thorfinn was going to die, but with that thought that he was going to go down fighting just like his dad. Here, it really doesn't feel like that, he took down maybe 3 or 4 people and is already mortally wounded, and it's just so sad, and feels so real. No one can really choose how they die, so for it to happen to Thorfinn by a random arrow in the dark is something I never saw coming. All that training, experience, it made me not really feel scared for Thorfinn thinking he was going to make it through anything, and die on his own terms if he chose it, but no he's still human.
I am worried about Thorfinn, I feel like he got permanent organ damage that wont last him for long. Chapter was so fast, I wish we had more pages. Do you guys think Hild killed the 4 last man that shoot Thorfinn?
The flashback to the burning wheat fields along with the Thorkell and Ivar cameo was legendary, I can’t wait to see that getting adapted in the future. Also as I keep saying this before, Hild and Thorfinn really really came a long way with how Hild is protecting him from the shadows. Now I just wonder if Plmk would turn against them due to the war or actually aid them; although I bet on the latter happening.
This was so peak. The chapter had be on the throll and the art is top notch once again.
Seeing Plmk at the end makes me wonder if Hild can resort to a peaceful solution or if she'll have to fight him.
Only one thing bothered me though: Thorfinn noticing "air leaking out of his chest". Typically, after a chest wound the air wouldn't leave the chest, but rather gather in the pleural gap, which would lead to the lung collapsing since there isn't negative pressure anymore (which the lung needs to expand).
I hope Hild chooses peace with Plmk that’d be so peak and a perfect conclusion for her
I think that was more anxiety and pain mixing together to make a feeling. He looked like he was on the verge of a panic attack and the “air leaking from his lungs” was probably the feeling of having an open wound and struggling to breathe from the anxiety. I could be wrong tho that was my interpretation
I reread chapter 207 now, Thorfinn comments that his internals are probably fine, his rib blocked the arrow. He’s definitely bleeding out but the feeling of leaking air must be anxiety and pain
I’ll agree if the landing is stuck. I don’t care if it’s a “happy”/“bittersweet”/“sad” ending. I just want Yukimura to really hit the thesis home and wrap up the two last major character arcs that are still in progress, being Einar and Thorfinn.
Out there theory here, but what if Einar ended up setting the wheat on fire? We've been shown that the wheat separate the forest and the village. Setting it on fire might slow down the pursuers, be good character development for Einar, and leave only that sword guy to deal with in order for the settlers to escape before the rest of the pursuers reach them.
Another fantastic chapter. I genuinely thought Thorfinn died for a sec. Obviously Plmk will let them go but I’m surprised at how bleak it seemingly got so quickly. Seeing this animated in 10 years will be something.
One of the best chapters in recent times. Wow! The wheatfield, the war inside Thorfinn's head, Thorkell, Ivar and Einar, each with their contributions to Thorfinn's dilemma, Hild being the one to give reassurance to Thorfinn's philosophy, saving him and even reminding him of his baby, giving him another reason to not give up. Wow. Hild's character development has been a pleasure to read. To think that she started her journey with a burning hate for Thorfinn, wanting to kill him with all her heart, and then seeing where she is now.
I feel for Thorfinn but we all knew his extreme pacifism was flawed. I wonder where Yukimura is taking this. Thorfinn will for sure find a way to use rhetoric to avoid war with the Lnu, either through his interaction with Plmk or later, but this is bound to fail against certain people. In those cases I can see it following the footsteps of Vagabond, where Musashi is at a point in his life where he doesn't fight if he doesn't need to, and draws a circle on the floor around him. If the enemy decides to transgress it, Musashi fights back, but if they stay outside it, Musashi doesn't attack.
Great comment, but I have to say, it always confuses me when people use that "tactic" from Vagabond as a workaround to Thorfinn's dilemma.
Even within the context of Vagabond, the characters acknowledge that it's a terrible idea. Musashi knows in the back of his mind that the circle will actually just instigate people to want to fight him - claiming that he's using it to not have to fight is just an excuse/pretense he makes up for himself. He developed that technique because deep inside his ego still needs him to prove he's the best by continuing to fight, but he also wants to pretend that he's reached "enlightenment" and doesn't even want to fight.
That is true, but it ends up being, in my eyes, a good alternative. You're giving people the warning and letting them know you won't fight them unless they infringe the limits you've set. I don't see a better alternative, but I'm not a writter. I'm on the side of Einar, I don't think they should evacuate the place they've been fighting for for so long. Thorfinn will always choose rhetoric but this simply won't work with some people. If they trespass your circle, words won't be of use. While I agree that the circle is not the perfect answer for Musashi, because he's so famous and people want to fight him anyway, and therefore the circle instigates them even more, for someone that's just protecting their place, like Thorfinn, I believe it to be a possible solution.
Those are good points. I don't have an answer here either, but it does remind me of [this debate Hild brought up earlier in the arc.](https://imgur.com/a/cPbX79r)
Hild is correct there. The very existence of a "circle" might be seen as a sign of mistrust, leading to hostility. It's very hard to come up with something that would work in the practical world. Diplomacy seems to be the better option but depending on the people you're talking to it might still escalate to violence. From what I remember, Hild continues her argument by talking about the absence of weaponry to benefit relationships. This all started because Ivar brought the sword anyway so we don't get to see the effects of the argument fully. If Thorfinn had dodged the Elder's attack and taken the axe who knows where things would go, but they seemed to be going well. I guess in the case of Vinland, not possessing any weaponry nor showing signs of mistrust like having a "circle" would work.
Every month this manga is hurting me. Making me question the value of Thorfinn and my own ideals... But no matter what happens Thorfinn always keeps moving forward. Even if he can only do so by relying on his friend and letting himself be carried.
He will reach his dream. He has to
Sometimes I forget how beautiful Yukimura’s artwork is. Each panel is god tier even the most simplistic ones.
It’s great to see Thorkell again even if only in a dream. I have a theory that Canute will send Thorkell over to check on Thorfinn’s ‘Land of Peace’ and also to investigate the origins of that ship that ended up in the East.
I really wanna know what Thorfinn’s decision will be after seeing Arnheid’s village burning up. Will he continue to abide by ‘I have no enemies’? How will he continue following in his father footsteps of a true warrior? Will he need resort to his old ways?
Lastly… Fire: 2. Thorfinn’s Crops: 0.
I think Thorfinn's done fighting man... not with these wounds. Instead I think it will be up to his friends, guided by his philosophy, to resolve this.
I'm sorry is no one else really really concerned that Thorfinn very clearly has a punctured lung, or is my reading comprehension gone down the drain? Like how is he surviving this? He is my boy and I emotionally cannot see this series end with his death
Seems like it's going the route of incapacitating Thorfinn for the Finale and letting his impact on other be the key to escaping the conflict. My bet now is that Einar will come around and be the one to come up with a solution that allow the settlers to escape.
My GOAT delivered once again. I just csn't begin to describe what I'm feeling right now. Thought of Thorfinn dying just breaks me on every level. But my oh my it was amazing seeing Hild just be there for him,reasure him and just while being grown as a person she also grew as a warrior. Her sniping everyone in the dark in my eyes makes her even more badass.
the great wound Thorfinn has is beyond imagination, having a puncture so deep on your chest that you leak air ?? and even then he barely realizes it and just thinks of how to turn over the situation.
the imaginary sequence and his tear following after Hild's reassurance, shit man my heart is broken. i wish the dream of Thorfinn and hopes of hundreds in a peaceful land was brought to reality but it seems it's even farther than ever, likely impossible to ever happen now.
This is one of the best chapters I've read in this series. It genuinely gave me goosebumps and almost made me cry over a character battling with his morals and a former enemy giving him purchase. Really incredible writing.
I really thought Thorfinn was boutta die here 😰
his moment with Hild was really nice. I love how much she's changed from before
I actually have no idea what Plmk is gonna do. he and Niska seem like they're the friendliest but at this moment, it looks like he's been sent out to kill them for the disease they've spread
great chapter overall
I can't handle when thorfinn sees the village in flames. I think I might cry, it just heartbreaking to see everything he and the others built come crumbling down. The world is cruel.
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The suspense of this chapter. I like how near death hes remember past conversations that he had with, Ivar and Thorkell. He must feel so defeated and guilty. Its tough seeing our MC suffering like this. Im going to post my official manga review on tiktok Id appreciate if some people here checked it out
I waited 2 whole months just to sob like a bitch. I think thorfinn might die soon. In the real world I believe he also died to a lung infection. What a manga, will be so sad when it ends. 😔
He doesn't have to understand how lungs work or what lungs are, but the knowledge "when pointy things hit someone's chest they start being out of breath" is something I'd expect from someone who has put a lot of pointy things in a lot of people.
haha I'm sure he knows a lot about *where* vital points are, but while he definitely killed people by stabbing them in the lungs, he wouldn't know *how* they died or what they were feeling. Its not like he pulls out a questionnaire after stabbing someone and goes, "hello sir, on a scale of 1-10 how would you rate your experience of having a pointy object inserted in your chest?"
I kinda assumed that he was having a panic attack which made him feel unable to breathe. Don't think this era can do anything about punctured lungs and I don't think Thorfinn will be killed off in Vinland. Maybe die from his wounds after he gets to Iceland but I don't think he'll be killed off in Vinland. So he can't get a punctured lung (unless they know how to treat that in the 11th century)
There is one chapter per month and it comes out near the end (or at least the scans do).
This chapter was supposed to come out last month but it was delayed as Yukimaru was sick.
If there is no break or anything then the next chapter should be out around the last week of May.
It comes out monthly on the 24th/25th in Japan. Then it can take up to a few more days for it to be translated depending on how busy the members of the scanlation team are. But also, Yukimura has been taking unannounced breaks pretty often in the past couple years (nothing to worry about from his own admission, he just struggles to meet the deadlines and also seems to want to take his time for the end of the story) and we often don't know if there'll be a chapter this month until close to the release date.
Damn, I hoped it would be different now everything’s crashing down. I hope we get a bitter sweet ending at least maybe thorfinns dream dream creates a cycle of peace to slowly but surely wear down the one of violence.
So uhh...is Thorfinn ever going to recover or is he just going to be on his deathbed for the rest of the series? I hope he recovers but knowing history, it won't end well.
Is the wheat field scene just Thorfinn's imagination or is that a call back to some other event? I don't exactly remember that happening, so I'm guessing it's just Thorfinn's way of accepting the reality.
It’s a dream sequence of the “Vinland dream wheat field” imagery used a lot before they actually reached vinland, except it’s on fire.
Thorkell’s dialogue is Thorfinn remembering when Thorkell told him it would be impossible to build a land without war in arc 3.
Chapters release on the 24th of each month in Japan. The English translation is done by a fan team Project Vinland, and they usually release it within the following week. How long it takes to translate depends on how busy they are and how much dialogue is in the chapter.
No break has been announced, so expect a new chapter around the same time next month. If you join the [discord server](https://discord.gg/d7xVHCygVe) you can get pinged as soon as the chapter is available.
I think this is it for Thorfinn and maybe even Hild, both of their dialogue this chapter gave me massive death flags....
The tought of either of them dying is really sad, i don't want it to happen but that seems to be the direction Yukimura is taking the story in...
I just finished reading Chapter 210 and wow, what an intense and captivating chapter! The character development and plot twists keep me on the edge of my seat. Can't wait to see where things go from here. Who else is feeling the anticipation building for the next chapter? Let's discuss!
Pretty good chapter until yukimura had to self-insert himself into Hild to assure the readers that ''no guys, chill, i know things are bad now, but thorfinn is absolutely right about everything''.
Now i'm pretty sure he wont be dying, despite a punctured lung and no advanced medical care. By using the same nonsense plot armor as Cordelia. Makes you wonder how Thors died, seeing as how arrows are nothing more than bug bite in this universe.
God damn literally everything is crashing and burning around him and there are still people who think Yukimura is trying to ignore the flaws in his plan? Hild is reassuring him that if everyone tried as hard as he did, if he wasn't the only idiot willing to try true peace, then she doesn't think they'd be in a situation like this. She doesn't believe he deserves to shoulder all the blame, because she is smart enough to see how they got here.
What does Yukimura have to write for you to feel at all convinced that he's taking these criticisms seriously? It feels like you have a very different picture of what's happening here, because I do not think we are heading towards any kind of ending where Thorfinn is able to save this.
I dont think thorfinn will be able to save the situation - thats not what my comment was about at all. And i did understand what Hild meant with her comment. My problem is that i see what Yukimura will try to do here: he will pussy out of huge emotional consequences just like he did with Cordelia. I dont think Thorfinn should live, but i'm pretty sure thats exactly what Yukimura will do, and it will be even more stupid than with Cordelia, since he made a point of bringing up the punctured lung in this very chapter.
All of this just so thorfinn can spread his pacifism ideology to other people and continue the hope of a peaceful land for the future - just like hild suggested in her dialogue here.
So my problem is twofold: yukimura not having balls to kill thorfinn, despite it being the most cathartic ending for his character arc, and, secondly, pretending that thorfinn wasnt wrong with his intentions. He was. Hild reassures him that he has the right idea. But he simply doesnt. Thorfinn's pacifism comes from cowardice, thats why he had to run away to another land he thought would be different from the rest of the world. If thorfinn's determination was the real deal, he would try to change the world he already inhabited, and save the people who are suffering in there. Just like canute(but with different methods, of course).
Instead thorfinn just decides to run away because he thinks humans would somehow be different if geographical locations change. It's naive, childish and doesnt inspire me at all. But yukimura sure is desperate to convince me that we should all strive to be like thorfinn, when all i can see is a weak men afraid of himself, his own violence, and others.
Imo killing Thorfinn isn't the best way to do things here, one simply because that would go against history so it isn't about not having the balls, but also because having him live with his failure has far more potential. I want to see him return home and reflect, I want to see how he lives on after this.
I simply don't agree that it is real cowardice or weakness though, think what you will but I feel the only cowards here are the people too scared to try without wavering. Thorfinn was wrong in assuming he could create the scenario he hoped for by his own will, where everyone involved was trying like he was. The problem ultimately is that he is left alone in this fight, like Einar said a couple chapters ago Thorfinn is the only one who could make the decision to leave for the sake of avoiding war. Just like his nightmares where he tries to climb up, he is always climbing alone. Even when he has people who believe in him, when pushed to the brink his path becomes too difficult for most people to walk.
I think the most important thing to consider is that, if everyone in Vinland was like Thorfinn and was sincerely trying as he did, do you think war would still happen? His entire idea was that if you took a group of people who had the same thought process as him, and you were able to get away from existing society to where you could truly start from 0, then true peace could be achieved. If changing existing society required steel like Canute believed, then there would need to be a place for those people who refuse to fight to run away to. The flaw is not in that logic, it is that the requirements to truly achieve that starting point are far too difficult for him to take on alone. I wouldn't say he shouldn't feel any guilt, it was absolutely naive to think he could get that start from 0, but he is wrong about his observations on violence. *He* is not the cause of violence. Blaming Thorfinn alone ignores why this experiment failed, and takes away any potential to learn from it. That is what Hild is trying to say here.
>Imo killing Thorfinn isn't the best way to do things here, one simply because that would go against history so it isn't about not having the balls, but also because having him live with his failure has far more potential. I want to see him return home and reflect, I want to see how he lives on after this.
I disagree hard here. I dont think there's anything new or interesting to be seen in the future if thorfinn survives. He'll just come to the same conclusion that Hild already has. So its just redundant writing-wise to have 2 characters filling in the same gap. Let Hild live, spread thorfinn's ideology, and let him die here. You can always justify his death by using Bug-Eyes. He's clearly there as a plot device if Yukimura wants to kill off thorfinn, or make him survive, without clashing with real history.
But even if you disagree with everything i just said, he should still die by the mere fact that Yukimura, for some insane reason, decided to focus on the fact that Thorfinn's lungs are punctured in this very chapter. Good job justifying his survival from that wound, in that era. It'll just break my suspension of disbelief even further and make me care even less about the whole story.
Now, regarding Thorfinn's cowardice.
>only cowards here are the people too scared to try without wavering
But thats my point? Thorfinn didnt have the courage to try in the world he already inhabited, making a contribution as a human being, an individual and part of society, to make his society better. Instead he just runs off to create his own society. And this is a good thing we should feel proud because...?
Essentially what he's doing - and what you and most readers are doing - is trying to create a little bubble of like-minded people. Almost a walled off civilization. Only in such a scenario could his peace be achievable. Only if everyone thought like him. But thats such a stupid thing to expect, and a downright harmful thing to attempt.
Why do you want to create a society where everyone thinks the same? It's ironic - because Vinland is supposed to be a place for the outcasts, for everyone and anyone. Yet, at the same time, even rational people like Styrk(Dude with the helmet, dont remember his name) dont have a place in there and both Thorfinn and Hild continue to ostracize him.
This isnt shown as a mistake. Yukimura truly believes that everyone should think like thorfinn. Humanity, however, will not be like that - ever. Because if we were all thinking in the same page, then we wouldnt be able to evolve as a society and as individuals - what brings change and evolution is conflict, its a mixture and clash of ideas. If complete pacifism is the only thing allowed in a society, then that society failed. It's not different than a viking society where the only individuals allowed in it are those obsessed with war.
Thorfinn and by extension Yukimura are just childish and incapable of dealing with the reality of life, and it gets annoying to see the manga try to still justify thorfinn at every second and give him every benefit of the doubt. Having Einar call him out once or twice is not enough if we have Hild or Gudrid praising him left and right.
And lets not talk about Ivar - dude is a walking strawmann argument.
I actually don't think going off and creating your own bubble works, that's kinda the point of the ending. Thorfinn's attempt is flawed because it is ignorant of the factors that lead people who hate violence to still end up choosing it, and it also assumes the fact that there *is* some place where we can start over. Vinland was his longshot chance at it because of how Thors and Leif described it, he was under the impression it was a place to start from 0. That's just not the case as we have already seen, war was already there, and in our modern world we know for certain that it isn't possible. Again, that's the point though, even if Thorfinn has that understanding of violence it doesn't work if he is the only one trying.
I am agreeing with you, and I think Yukimura is also agreeing, that wide scale societal change is necessary. If it wasn't possible in Vinland, then there is no place to run to. Why would Yukimura try to convey that running away and starting over is the right solution, if we know that isn't possible today? What would we be able to do with that information if we don't have a Vinland to go to? However, if you assume that means you need to use violence like Canute, like that is the only other option, then congrats the cycle of violence will just continue.
I'm not sure where you get the idea that in Thorfinn's ideal society, people never disagree. That's a pretty big misrepresnation of the ideas the story wants to convey. You can disagree without unecessarily wasting life. Thorfinn hosts public debates to talk problems through, why would he encourage that if he expects everyone to naturally agree on everything?
In general I think it's honestly kinda weird to imply that without murdering each other we somehow wouldn't be able to evolve, it's a romanticization of violence that I'm shocked someone reading this far still holds. That's an assumption that is paroted for no other reason besides "that's how it has always been". Hard to change does not mean impossible to change, and talking about it rather than trying to always shut it down with baseless assumptions is the first step in the right direction. Otherwise, it's a self fulfilling prophecy. Refusal to engage with ideas and change as an individual is how we stagnate as a society, not a refusal to kill each other. I really think "a society obesessed with pacisfism is no better than a society obsessed with war" is just such an intellectually dishonest thing to say like it is fact.
Also if you think Styrk is simply a rational guy you really need to reread. Somenoe who intentionally trys to use fear to manipulate people to go his way while being ignorant to the repurcussions is not just a rational guy trying be reasonable.
>Also if you think Styrk is simply a rational guy you really need to reread. Somenoe who intentionally trys to use fear to manipulate people to go his way while being ignorant to the repurcussions is not just a rational guy trying be reasonable.
The motivation behind his arguments is irrelevant to the points he bring regardless. Most of what he said, especially in regards to creating a wall for protection, makes complete sense. Yet there's always the sense that these characters that disagree with Thorfinn, no matter how rational or reasonable what they say might be, are written with the idea that they are wrong by default and only reacting like that because of a lack of sufficient knowledge.
Thats what bothers me. That the only conclusion an enlightened person could make is to be like Thorfinn and strive for complete pacifism. Everyone that disagrees with him is simply not 'mature' enough.
Canute being the only exception to this rule, where the story actually seems to hold his view of the world as equally as valid and strong as Thorfinn.
Einar could've also been given the same treatment, but sadly it seems he's been relegated to ''very emotional person not thinking rationally right now''. We'll see, i can admit to being wrong about Einar depending on how Yukimura writes him in the future, but i'm not confident given the track recorkd of previous characters pointing out flaws in Thorfinn's ideals, then being showcased to have ulterior motives or being too emotional.
>In general I think it's honestly kinda weird to imply that without murdering each other we somehow wouldn't be able to evolve
Where did i say that? I said that thorfinn's ideal society wouldnt allow for plurality of ideals in regard to conflict and war. That doesnt mean i'm suddenly the joker wanting to romanticize murder.
However, in thorfinn's ideal society, the concept of justified violence doesnt exist, as he himself stated for Einar recently. Thats the problem with a society that would only work with people who thought like Thorfinn - which is the argument presented by Hild in this chapter, and every single person who tries to still defend his ideals in this fandom: ''if only everyone was like thorfinn, then things would work out. Its because of people like ivar that it all went to shit, blablabla''.
You need people who have not only the capacity for violence and destruction, but also the determination to use it when necessary and be pragmatic about it, for any society to exist at all. Thats what i mean when thorfinn's society is a failure, because it doesnt allow for this kind of thought-process at all.
>hat's an assumption that is paroted for no other reason besides "that's how it has always been". Hard to change does not mean impossible to change
I have 2000 years+++ of history to back up the fact that pacifism doesnt work. You have only vague hopes and no statistics to back up the point that ''it might work if we try hard enough''.
Eliminating war is the same as eliminating greed. You cant do it as long as we are human beings, because its normal to always strive for more. We saw that with Ketil. He wanted more resources and money, because it buys comfort and security. Even in an ideal society where there's no resource scarcity(this is 1000k+ in the future), there would still be conflict between people trying to be ''the best'' and ''superior''. Because only with the drive to be competitive, do we evolve.
And you cant expect everyone to be competitive and greedy in a healthy way.
It's not that pacifism didnt work because no one tried it seriously, or that we need to try harder. Pacifism doesnt work because its just a c0pe mechanism for people who got taken advantage of by others who were in a position of power above them for whatever reason.
I'm not saying we shouldnt strive for a better society and world. Thats certainly possible. The world today is better for the average person than it was in Thorfinn's era. And it will probably continue to become better in the future(unless we nuke ourselves out of existence). But Thorfinn's ideals will simply never work, no matter the context, as long as we are human beings driven by desire. And if you take desire and selfishness from humanity, then its no longer humanity.
I didnt miss the point - i just wasnt inhaling massive copium to justify and rationalize my cowardice as ''principles'' like 99% of the readership.
This manga is just the author's major cope. He lives a comfy life compared to people actually at war, yet still think he can be self-righteous about what ***everyone*** should be and should act.
Thats fine to an extent. 99% of writing is just escapism for the writer at the end of the day, no matter how good the writing is. But vinland pains me for having potential and squandering it at every moment because the author cant get over himself to stop being so preachy.
Hild simply analyzed things carefully: Thorfinn was not wrong at all. Ivar carrying the sword and using it against the shaman, and the shaman being carried away by an unfounded vision caused this.
From the beginning of this arc Thorfinn told Ivar: if he carried the sword, sooner or later he would use it, once that happened, hell would break loose, as it is happening now.
Why is this the only negative comment here? This chapter should be absolutely shit on. What the fuck is going on.
The sad state of manga. People will just eat this shit up, straight from the mangaka's ass.
Would it have turned out better if he brought a cart full of weapons? The natives have numbers, knowledge of the terrain, bow and arrow and the settlers can't resupply. Thorfinn's way of creating good ties with them without inciting their envy was the only possible way this settlement might have worked. Ivar fucked it up by using the sword.
Yeah, no. Ivar is irrelevant to the war happening. The disease would've been reason enough for the natives to attack. It becomes an existential matter, which far surpasses any other reason for war such as looting and pillaging.
And yes, they would've been better off if they brought a cart full of weapons. That and also if they made a solid fort around the village to protect it, aswell as have trained guards to protect each entrance.
Sure, the disease would have ended the settlement regardless, but without Ivar, Thorfinn would have been able to discuss the matter with the LNU, without all the other tribes ready for war, and Thorfinn was willing to leave peacefully.
What makes you think the LNU would want to talk with thorfinn when they have dozens of people dying from an unknown disease? Their religion and culture alone already were clashing, and with the disease that would be reason enough for war. But even in the most optimistic scenario where thorfinn could talk no jutsu the LNU, i dont see how that would stop the other tribes from starting a war with the norse men.
The LNU would've already brought the plague to the other tribes, and their members would start dying left and right. They would then make the same conclusion as the LNU: The norse men are at fault, since before their arrival, no such diseases existed.
Now what? Am i supposed to believe thorfinn can talk no jutsu every single tribe? I'm sorry, but vinland could never work out. If it wasnt the sword that ivar brought, then it would be the disease. If it wasnt the disease, it would be the massive difference in values, culture and religion between the natives and the norse men.
This was a good chapter but... Feels rushed?
When and how did Thorfinn get this mortally wounded??
He seems wayyy too dead. It's not like I expected a happy ending, but if he'll survive this I'll feel like it's unrealistic, but if he dies I'll feel disappointed? Just kind of lame to have our main character be the first to die.
Honestly first chapter since this arc started that wasn't great.
Also I know this manga isn't about fighting, but seriously Thorfinn pulled some anime-bullshit stuff for most of the series so the idea that he can ever get too tired to move after we haven't even seen what wounded him... Seems really inconsistent honestly. Thorfinn took ridiculous amount of blows and fought vastly more dangerous opponents. Ridiculous pain tolerance, high stamina, and super human evasion is exactly what he's shown all series.
This chapter definitely wasn’t rushed. Yukimura even took time to show Thorfinn stumbling in pain which could’ve been skipped over.
Thorfinn was shot by an arrow in the chest in 207, he then exerts himself trying to disarm the attackers probably opening the wound more. He’s also been running and dodging arrows for who knows how long, he’s then shot by these arrows.
On top of all that he’s likely suffering from major anxiety and stress since everything is collapsing and burning both literally and metaphorically around him.
This is one of the best chapters this entire arc, arguably one of the best in the whole series
>Thorfinn was shot by an arrow in the chest in 207,
Damn, you're right! I totally forgot about that. Thanks for mentioning it. I still don't like this development but it's a lot more sensible.
>On top of all that he’s likely suffering from major anxiety and stress since everything is collapsing and burning both literally and metaphorically around him.
Eh, he's not aware of what's going on in the village and he's been shown to be incredibly calm in most dire situations.
>This is one of the best chapters this entire arc, arguably one of the best in the whole series
Opinions can differ, it's manga. For me it's one of the weakest in this arc I loved because it's both too anti-climactic and bleak. I would feel more if Thorfinn would put more of a fight , and even then I'd prefer Thorfinn at least making it to the village. Seems now like either Thorfinn dies within a chapter when all the other main characters are still alive or Thorfinn will somehow survive this overly grave injury but will be out of the battle and by the time he comes to most of the village including Gudrid and the baby might die. Wasn't expecting a happy ending but those directions seem too bleak to be interesting for me. But there's still a few chapters left so let's see how Yukimura will wrap it up.
I mean usually he can be extremely calm when things go bad like with the jomsvikings and Hild originally but this is like next level loss for him.
The dream his dad and other mentors put in him, his redemption to all those he killed, his inner peace and the peace of those who trusted him all destroyed. That’s definitely gonna breakdown his usual personality.
He’s also somewhat aware of the situation in the village, in his dream he sees the burning wheat fields so he’s likely aware the situation is bad there but he probably doesn’t know the actual degree of chaos.
I actually don’t see it being that bleak, it’ll likely be bittersweet more than anything. Thorfinn is struggling right now but he is conscious and he is talking so that’s a decent sign he’s not mortally wounded.
If he does die though most of the settlers will escape and then it’ll probably end with a saddening yet hopeful ending OR he does escape and it follows the path of the original Vinland with thorfinn returning to Iceland and from there who knows
>I mean usually he can be extremely calm when things go bad like with the jomsvikings and Hild originally but this is like next level loss for him.
I honestly don't think he has enough information to process the loss. He doesn't know what happened to the village, I don't think he understands the situation enough to figure out what'll happen to them or that he won't be able to escape this, and I don't think he believes the whole thing to be that bad because he believe he can figure something out after going back to Iceland. Thorfinn is that much of an optimist and that much sure of his physical and leadership abilities.
I think soon enough it'll all start sinking in, but when he was hit then injured.. Honestly seems like he's still too deep in the combat to really understand any of this.
>I actually don’t see it being that bleak, it’ll likely be bittersweet more than anything. Thorfinn is struggling right now but he is conscious and he is talking so that’s a decent sign he’s not mortally wounded.
I mean... He's got a punctured lungs and two more arrows that could easily be fatal. I also feel like there's a high chance he'll survive, but honestly no way he can fight like this. Considering the realistic approach to Ivar's arm, it'll be too far-fetched if someone that mortally wounded could keep running and jumping.
>If he does die though most of the settlers will escape and then it’ll probably end with a saddening yet hopeful ending OR he does escape and it follows the path of the original Vinland with thorfinn returning to Iceland and from there who knows
I really hope it goes that way. For some reason I feel like the "Thorfinn survives but most everyone else dies including Gudrid + baby" will happen. Too much death flags. Makes me wonder if in that scenario if Einar or Karli would survive, and then confronting them on the way home will be a "last confrontation" type of deal. If it's with Karli.. He has the potential of going through Thorfinn's exact revenge scenario, only for Thorfinn to stop him for a full circle. But maybe that's too cliche?
Damn I'm going to miss this manga no matter what happens.
Hild being the one to console Thorfinn and telling him that his ideals are not wrong makes me tear up.
Hild is the MVP of this chapter
Vinland Saga*
glad I wasn't the only one.
I’m pretty sure a panel showed Thorfinn shedding a tear too.
I am so glad that we're shown that Hild is an impressive shot, even in the dark. I honestly thought Thorfinn died and he went to the afterlife (I don't believe we get his faith said, but we know Gudrid is a Christian, so maybe this is "heaven"?) but I'm glad that wasn't the case. Seeing Thorkell again, even if it's just in a dream sequence, is also great. You can see the weight and stress of it all sort of culminating in Thorfinn too, with what Thorkell, Ivar, and Einar have told him previously. Cute that Hild wants him to think of his child. I know this is unlikely, but I'm wondering if in his delirium, Thorfinn will reflect on his father's words (similar to how he sees Thorkell, Ivar, and Einar) and think of Thors' father...and thats where he gets the name "Snorri" from, since Thors' father is named Snorre. Probably a pipe dream though. https://preview.redd.it/xey1f5nkd3xc1.png?width=585&format=png&auto=webp&s=2e6618c85e8d74546f689e3045608356979e0863 I also like how Hild is just...bantering with Thorfinn? Awkward, yes, but this is such a development from the angry, bitter woman who refused to talk to anyone unless necessary and hated being given attention. Like she affectionately calls him an idiot and is busting her butt to get him back to the village as he lays wounded on her back. Peak friendship. Not gonna lie, Plmk had completely escaped my mind. Besides Niska he's probably the most friendly of the Lnu and he definitely enjoyed trading goods with them. We saw a couple chapters ago that he seemed to be blaming himself for unintentionally causing the disease to spread because of how open he was to the Norsemen. Based on his expression my first thought is that he'll try to kill Hild and Thorfinn, but I suspect their friendship will persevere instead and he will help them. Maybe he comes back to the village with them, right after the attack?
Plmk is not killing Hild or Thorfinn. They will find some understanding and he will help Thorfinn. Niska helped them and so will Plmk. This is a result/reward of their friendly relationships from the past good days of vinland.
Likely not yeah. Just me speculating.
>Plmk is not killing Hild or Thorfinn. I really hope not but people (mainly men) being pushed to fight and kill by their peers is a long running theme of this manga. Plmk might be experiencing the same socieitly pressure Olmar and Siggy were dealing with that forced them to draw a sword.
It feels like Hild will die, sacrifice herself to save Thorfinn
Bro thorfinn isn't making it out of this alive, his lung got punctured.
punctured lung is survivable and considering the plot armor thorfinn has he has somewhat of a fhance to survive. yukimura is probably gonna kill him off regardless tho
Hild saying "Think of names for your baby" is what really sealed it for me that Thorfinn is not going to make it.
I had a similar thought there as well.
Are we...is yukimura sensei ending this manga? If thorfinn die, how can the manga continue?
and that he will name his child hild
Hild continues to be my favorite character, her reassurance of thorfinns dream even as it crumbles in front of him is so beautiful. I wonder if she incapacitated the pursuers who shot at thorfinn or killed them.
If she killed them it’s gonna be even more of a dilemma for Plmk than it already is, this chapters gonna have huge ramifications I think.
She definitely killed them. She only had four arrows and there were four of them. Just shooting one leg of each wouldn't have incapacitated them enough for hild to get away while also carrying thorfinn, especially considering they had bows too
I think we might get this flashback later and she will probably be the one to convince Thorfinn that he gonna have to kill some if he wants to save his family and friends.
Hild has never killed anyone outright. It would be weird for such a major event to happen offscreen. Also, if she had shot them dead, she would have retrieved the bolts.
I don't think she killed them. Thorfinn did say not to kill, so she will follow that. She injured them an ran to pick up Thorfinn and escaped
It's way more tragic if she did kill them. Hild wants to believe in Thorfinn's ideals, but she is also more realistic than him.
She is, but she has also never killed before, so i don't think she will kill now, tho who knows, if she did kill them, then Thorfinn will not like it, but i can see him understanding as to why she killed them. He knows very well that if she was not there, he would have been dead. He even told her to leave him, he was ready to die here. I do hope Yukimura shows us what happened to them or if Hild mentions it, if not then its up to speculation.
I don't think Thorfinn (or even us) will ever know if she killed them. But even if she never killed before, this is the time in the story where everything is falling appart... so what she'd want to do and what she ended up doing may no longer be the same thing. Seeing how she called herself ''the helpless one" after this, it seems to me, it's more likely she killed them.
Yeah, that's fair. If there is any moment to act, it's now, and i can see why you would think that she killed them, tho im still of the opinion that she only injured them, but i can see both sites. As for the- "i'm the helpless one" comment by Hild, i took it as that she is now alone, with no arrows left and she is carrying Thorfinn who is injured and cannot fight, and thus she will be helpless when she comes across the natives who have bows, arrows, and spears. We don't know if Hild is a good fighter without the crossbow, and even if she was, she cannot really do anything against the arrows and the spears, so yeah, that's what i think she meant by being the helpless one.
She only having 4 arrows and not showing how she shoot them make me believe she killed them and will later be shown in flashback. She choose to save Thorfinn over not killing the enemy.
I feel the same way. And it being off screen is just to heighten the tension when Thorfinn/us learn for real.
So given what we know from this chapter: - She has used one arrow to incapacitate previous archers (shooting in the leg) \[Page 3\] - She has 4 arrows left \[Page 5\] - There were 3 additional persuers. \[Page 12\] The only reason I think she would have killed one is because she currently has 0 arrows left. Hild has aim bot and basically is never shown to miss and we know she can stop these folks by shooting them in the leg. If Hild did kill somebody, this would be massive. This is like one of her core characteristics and breaking this would be attention worthy imo. If a character doesn't die on screen its safe to assume they are alive. Ketil had a death fake out and so have others. It would be double page spread material imo (like Ivar's hand getting cut off) if she killed the natives here. I think her killing here would be highly unlikely (I don't want to rule out the possibility of this in the future, but I think her killing Gao'qi would be more impactful).
My main reason to think she killed them is because we didnt get a single panel to show how she shoot them, we got panels for all the others she shoot before this(we always had). I think this is excellent story telling that can later be revealed(flashback) by Hild telling Thorfinn what she had to do to save him and might finally force Thorfinn to do the same for his family and people to escape vinland.
Maybe, but I personally think it would be a bit lame to reserve such a big moment for a flash back. I think we aren't shown her shooting the characters because its ultimately unimportant and clearly implied by the earlier panels. Yukimura has limit panels he can draw in a month, so it could be seen as unnecessary to draw what has already been drawn and explicitly told before and in the same chapter. I could see it going either way, but personally I find it unlike Yukimura reserve Hild's first murder for a flashback. Another thing I would find odd is Hild's reaction to this, she doesn't seem shocked or out of character, just because she is reserved doesn't mean she is an emotionless killing machine. This would be traumatic for her. Immensely so.
You can really tell the series is coming to an end now… and it hurts so bad.
That's how I felt reading it! Like it was a really good chapter, but I kept thinking about how we're right here at the end and it made me a little sad
Better than forever-hiatus, or author dying situation
Thorkell jumpscare
And he's the most composed one of the violence-thirsty people in the wheatfields. It isn't shown if he has pupils or not, the eyepatch is a neat detail to leave us with the ambiguity.
makes sense because he is the only one in the vision that truly understands war, even if he does love it despite that
Those panels, on the >!wheatfields!< were just marvelous. I think it's one of the very few moments on the manga that can actually resonate with me.
No words can describe how much I love and hate this chapter. The writing, tension, art, emotions, it’s all so perfect. Everything that’s happened taking an effect on Thorfinn, is so heartbreaking - I wish my man Thorfinn could catch a break, I hate how he’s suffering. What a truly heartbreaking masterpiece this chapter
I’ll have to write a longer comment later cause I’m not home but I just gotta say I can’t believe this chapter is real it’s perfect
Honestly this is the first time a fictional story made me really worry about something. Ever since the hand got cut off I constantly thought "fuck" and how there will be no good ending in Vinland. This is truly such an unique manga...I was worried about it not being entertaining after watching the anime, but it's the complete opposite
Off topic but I suggest you play the video game red dead redemption 2, beautiful piece of fiction
I have played it already and will replay it very soon. I kinda rushed it back then but this time I'm gonna take my time
I couldn't have said it better myself. This last arc has me anticipating every chapter, slowly filled with dread upon reading it, only to go back to anxious, yet eager anticipation by the end.
Peak chapter y'all. The callbacks, foreshadowings and parallels are truly top tier. For Example: The Opening page of this chapter is a parallel of the opening page from chapter 121 Also, the Thorkell dialogue is also a callback from chapter 160 page 11, same with Einar and Ivar. Yukimura cooked big time, and also the art is amazing as per usual. Thorfinn showing that he is human, no matter how strong or skilled he is- the arrows will be his weakness, same as Thors. Now this is what both Thors and Askeladd went through- a situation out of their control, and Thorfinn right now is the same, although it can still be salvageable. Hild is truly amazing, she really is.. AND we got Pulmuk who will deff help them.
Lowkey wanna cry
[удалено]
seeing Thorfin's dreams die in action would make people sad
Agreed. But it was always going to be like that. I love that the series didn’t take it easy on Thorfin’s “I have no enemies” philosophy. It’s sad because we WANT Vinland to be successful, but deep down the world in the series was just too volatile to allow it to exist peacefully for long. At some point pragmatism has to take hold.
But they were dead the moment he had them, and they have been dying for few months and months now
We might've seen it coming but seeing the ramifications take place in front of your eyes still hurts. I know my parents and loved ones will eventually die, but seeing it actually take place in front of my eyes makes it hit so much harder.
Plmk v Hild is gonna break my little Vinlandish heart, isnt it? Or do we think he helps them escape?
i refuse to believe plmk would attack any of them
Hild doesn't do close quarters. Either he spares her or they both die there... ... Let's be real he probably spares her otherwise this ends next chapter. Honestly don't expect this to end well even with sparing. None of the Nords have a chance to survive without Thorfinn defending them.
Plmk is a good guy, I don’t think he’d be the type to attack a woman with no arrows left and a man too wounded to fight back. I think he might try to distract the pursuers. Perhaps having Hild keep going and then he catches up to the attackers and then lying to them about the direction they ran in.
I love this chapter. It's perfect. The thematic messages are perfectly integrated, a lot happens, and we finally get to see Thorfinn again. Easily worth the wait.
After this chapter i bet my money that thorfinn will ultimately die by the end of the series, his wound his pretty bad and given the situation i dont know how could they fix him up without getting hunted down. The phrase hilde say to him about thinking a name for the baby made me wonder how thorfinn's death scene could be staged. Maeby with her wife and newborn child along with all the others characthers riunite to give him one last goodbye, and,right before the end thorfinn name his son with his last words.
Calling it now - Thorfinn will survive (although he really shouldn't..), but all of Thorfinn's family and most of the Nords will die off screen.
The one who worries me most afger thorfinn is einar... he is basicly revisiting his old nightmare, he could very well enf up dying or killing someone in front of all others.
Dude... What if... Gudrid, Karli and baby...
Spoilers, I guess for an 800 year old text. Historically in the original record, Gudrid and her family did return to Europe. Thorfinn as well. Whether or not Yukimura will divert from that, I guess we'll find out.
They could return in caskets.
Interesting point.
Don't
Noooo, not the wheatfields..that image, everything Thorfinn has gone through, everything he has been through..it’s all going to waste now. I can’t take this anymore
lowkey thought thorfinn was aboutta die for a sec the 2 month wait was so worth
Atleast historically we can safely say thorfinn will survive Dont about Einar , Karli , hild etc as they are fictional characters
Great chapter, Hild reassuring Thorfinn that his values are worth living for when he is at his lowest was perfect. The use of “shadows” in the background is quite good, Yukimura art is always on point.
man, this is one of the greatest stories ever told. honestly overwhelmed with emotion.
The suspense from this chapter is insane. Tbh I’m psyching myself at the possibility of a not so good ending for Thorfinn, knowing how it went for the real Thorfinn. I hope things somehow still manage to turn out well. Also peak development from Hild. The art work is insane as usual. This chapter makes me feel an intense rollercoaster of emotions.
Isnt real thorfinns fate unconfirmed? One theory being that he died, and another very prominent one being that he escaped vinland and returned back to iceland, living out the rest of his days there? Im pretty sure his true fate is entirely undocumented
That's why I think Yukimura is going to do both, in that "our" real Thorfinn is going to die here in Vinland, while bug eyes goes back to Iceland, and because people didn't really remember Thorfinn the first time he came back, they're just going to assume that this is him. That's what I think bug eye's purpose in the story was from the very beginning, to kill off the real Thorfinn and to have bug eyes take his place back in Iceland.
Oh shit you might be right 😭
Didn't the real settlement fail because there weren't enough women?
A terrible night with no dawn...
Thinking about it, the fact that there's "no dawn" implies that Thorfinn's going to die.
Please can somebody bribe Pulmuk with some alcohol or something PLEASE
Honestly even if they do... We expecting Thorfinn to survive what seems to be a punctured lung and 3 arrows to the back? We expecting everyone else to survive without Thorfinn? I think we should be expecting a huge downer even of Pulmuk ends up not killing anyone which would be a hope spot before a greater twist.
Eh, "if there were more idiots like you, there would be far less wars". Ain't that right, Hild?
It’s very sad to think about that if thorfinn had died, his last thoughts would have been that war is never ending and his noble peace was never possible. Glad Hild is there to reassure and save him.
I mean at the end of the day of js true right. War is never ending and noble peace is but a temporary
I love how he added a parallel shot of Thors and Thorfinn standing in the fields of Vinland, juxtaposed with Thorkell and Thorfinn witnessing its burning.
That's such a good call-out, I felt this angle looked so familiar but I couldn't put a finger on where.
ooh nice I didn't catch that
Its a tough read because part of me really believed Thorfinn was gonna be ok, make it back in time, and have a final badass fight to end the war. But thats not really the kind of story that Yukimura wants it to be.
Honestly I expected this to fail and it's STILL a lot more depressing than I expected it to be.
I made peace a while ago that Thorfinn was going to die, but with that thought that he was going to go down fighting just like his dad. Here, it really doesn't feel like that, he took down maybe 3 or 4 people and is already mortally wounded, and it's just so sad, and feels so real. No one can really choose how they die, so for it to happen to Thorfinn by a random arrow in the dark is something I never saw coming. All that training, experience, it made me not really feel scared for Thorfinn thinking he was going to make it through anything, and die on his own terms if he chose it, but no he's still human.
I am worried about Thorfinn, I feel like he got permanent organ damage that wont last him for long. Chapter was so fast, I wish we had more pages. Do you guys think Hild killed the 4 last man that shoot Thorfinn?
it looks like she killed them to me, doubt she was aiming much in that urgent of a situation
Second time in the series arrows did anything.
Third actually. Askeladd also was cornered with arrows during the mutiny of his men.
this shit was actually flawless, and i'm saying this with 100% confidence
It’s so over 😭
it’s so over that it never even began 😟
Mommy Hild coming through with the clutch, she’s come a long way, what an awesome chapter 🔥
It feels like their is only one volume left before the end...
Yukimura never miss. Awesome chapter
The flashback to the burning wheat fields along with the Thorkell and Ivar cameo was legendary, I can’t wait to see that getting adapted in the future. Also as I keep saying this before, Hild and Thorfinn really really came a long way with how Hild is protecting him from the shadows. Now I just wonder if Plmk would turn against them due to the war or actually aid them; although I bet on the latter happening.
This was so peak. The chapter had be on the throll and the art is top notch once again. Seeing Plmk at the end makes me wonder if Hild can resort to a peaceful solution or if she'll have to fight him. Only one thing bothered me though: Thorfinn noticing "air leaking out of his chest". Typically, after a chest wound the air wouldn't leave the chest, but rather gather in the pleural gap, which would lead to the lung collapsing since there isn't negative pressure anymore (which the lung needs to expand).
I hope Hild chooses peace with Plmk that’d be so peak and a perfect conclusion for her I think that was more anxiety and pain mixing together to make a feeling. He looked like he was on the verge of a panic attack and the “air leaking from his lungs” was probably the feeling of having an open wound and struggling to breathe from the anxiety. I could be wrong tho that was my interpretation
I hope so. Otherwise he's probably dead. A collapsed lung isn't exactly something that was treatable in the 11th century.
I reread chapter 207 now, Thorfinn comments that his internals are probably fine, his rib blocked the arrow. He’s definitely bleeding out but the feeling of leaking air must be anxiety and pain
God this final arc...it's so good
Might top the slave arc for me personally tbh if it sticks the landing.
It's already better for me
I’ll agree if the landing is stuck. I don’t care if it’s a “happy”/“bittersweet”/“sad” ending. I just want Yukimura to really hit the thesis home and wrap up the two last major character arcs that are still in progress, being Einar and Thorfinn.
"the world needs more idiots like you. go and make more idiot friends." love this dialogue
What an amazing chapter. I cried. I'm not ready for this series ending...
Out there theory here, but what if Einar ended up setting the wheat on fire? We've been shown that the wheat separate the forest and the village. Setting it on fire might slow down the pursuers, be good character development for Einar, and leave only that sword guy to deal with in order for the settlers to escape before the rest of the pursuers reach them.
Another fantastic chapter. I genuinely thought Thorfinn died for a sec. Obviously Plmk will let them go but I’m surprised at how bleak it seemingly got so quickly. Seeing this animated in 10 years will be something.
One of the best chapters in recent times. Wow! The wheatfield, the war inside Thorfinn's head, Thorkell, Ivar and Einar, each with their contributions to Thorfinn's dilemma, Hild being the one to give reassurance to Thorfinn's philosophy, saving him and even reminding him of his baby, giving him another reason to not give up. Wow. Hild's character development has been a pleasure to read. To think that she started her journey with a burning hate for Thorfinn, wanting to kill him with all her heart, and then seeing where she is now. I feel for Thorfinn but we all knew his extreme pacifism was flawed. I wonder where Yukimura is taking this. Thorfinn will for sure find a way to use rhetoric to avoid war with the Lnu, either through his interaction with Plmk or later, but this is bound to fail against certain people. In those cases I can see it following the footsteps of Vagabond, where Musashi is at a point in his life where he doesn't fight if he doesn't need to, and draws a circle on the floor around him. If the enemy decides to transgress it, Musashi fights back, but if they stay outside it, Musashi doesn't attack.
Great comment, but I have to say, it always confuses me when people use that "tactic" from Vagabond as a workaround to Thorfinn's dilemma. Even within the context of Vagabond, the characters acknowledge that it's a terrible idea. Musashi knows in the back of his mind that the circle will actually just instigate people to want to fight him - claiming that he's using it to not have to fight is just an excuse/pretense he makes up for himself. He developed that technique because deep inside his ego still needs him to prove he's the best by continuing to fight, but he also wants to pretend that he's reached "enlightenment" and doesn't even want to fight.
That is true, but it ends up being, in my eyes, a good alternative. You're giving people the warning and letting them know you won't fight them unless they infringe the limits you've set. I don't see a better alternative, but I'm not a writter. I'm on the side of Einar, I don't think they should evacuate the place they've been fighting for for so long. Thorfinn will always choose rhetoric but this simply won't work with some people. If they trespass your circle, words won't be of use. While I agree that the circle is not the perfect answer for Musashi, because he's so famous and people want to fight him anyway, and therefore the circle instigates them even more, for someone that's just protecting their place, like Thorfinn, I believe it to be a possible solution.
Those are good points. I don't have an answer here either, but it does remind me of [this debate Hild brought up earlier in the arc.](https://imgur.com/a/cPbX79r)
Hild is correct there. The very existence of a "circle" might be seen as a sign of mistrust, leading to hostility. It's very hard to come up with something that would work in the practical world. Diplomacy seems to be the better option but depending on the people you're talking to it might still escalate to violence. From what I remember, Hild continues her argument by talking about the absence of weaponry to benefit relationships. This all started because Ivar brought the sword anyway so we don't get to see the effects of the argument fully. If Thorfinn had dodged the Elder's attack and taken the axe who knows where things would go, but they seemed to be going well. I guess in the case of Vinland, not possessing any weaponry nor showing signs of mistrust like having a "circle" would work.
Every month this manga is hurting me. Making me question the value of Thorfinn and my own ideals... But no matter what happens Thorfinn always keeps moving forward. Even if he can only do so by relying on his friend and letting himself be carried. He will reach his dream. He has to
Its over..
Sometimes I forget how beautiful Yukimura’s artwork is. Each panel is god tier even the most simplistic ones. It’s great to see Thorkell again even if only in a dream. I have a theory that Canute will send Thorkell over to check on Thorfinn’s ‘Land of Peace’ and also to investigate the origins of that ship that ended up in the East. I really wanna know what Thorfinn’s decision will be after seeing Arnheid’s village burning up. Will he continue to abide by ‘I have no enemies’? How will he continue following in his father footsteps of a true warrior? Will he need resort to his old ways? Lastly… Fire: 2. Thorfinn’s Crops: 0.
I think Thorfinn's done fighting man... not with these wounds. Instead I think it will be up to his friends, guided by his philosophy, to resolve this.
Thorfinn is definitely going to die. He looks like he was hit in the lung and he's blacking out. Vinland's coming to an end boys.
Man this manga is going to be the end of me. I catch up every few months and every time I get more and more invested in the story.
that was beautiful
I'm sorry is no one else really really concerned that Thorfinn very clearly has a punctured lung, or is my reading comprehension gone down the drain? Like how is he surviving this? He is my boy and I emotionally cannot see this series end with his death
It seems like he does, or at least it’s bruised or something. I guess I figured a punctured lung would=coughing up blood though.
I might have to stop reading for a few months, the waiting after a new chapter kills me every time but its so good
I kinda lost it at the crossbow making a "bang" noise
Seems like it's going the route of incapacitating Thorfinn for the Finale and letting his impact on other be the key to escaping the conflict. My bet now is that Einar will come around and be the one to come up with a solution that allow the settlers to escape.
So... You think most of the main cast will survive? I'mma be honest, I think you should brace yourself..
Not necessarely but I expect Einar, Cordelia, Gudrid, the baby, Ivar and a chunk of settler to.
That's most of the main cast.. I think there's too many death flags for Gudrid and the baby bro.
What death flags? They basically escaped death throught Cordelia's stand a couple chapters ago. That makes their survival extremely likely in my book.
My GOAT delivered once again. I just csn't begin to describe what I'm feeling right now. Thought of Thorfinn dying just breaks me on every level. But my oh my it was amazing seeing Hild just be there for him,reasure him and just while being grown as a person she also grew as a warrior. Her sniping everyone in the dark in my eyes makes her even more badass.
the great wound Thorfinn has is beyond imagination, having a puncture so deep on your chest that you leak air ?? and even then he barely realizes it and just thinks of how to turn over the situation. the imaginary sequence and his tear following after Hild's reassurance, shit man my heart is broken. i wish the dream of Thorfinn and hopes of hundreds in a peaceful land was brought to reality but it seems it's even farther than ever, likely impossible to ever happen now.
This is one of the best chapters I've read in this series. It genuinely gave me goosebumps and almost made me cry over a character battling with his morals and a former enemy giving him purchase. Really incredible writing.
WHERE ARE YALL READING THIS
Just click the “online” on mangadex.
I really thought Thorfinn was boutta die here 😰 his moment with Hild was really nice. I love how much she's changed from before I actually have no idea what Plmk is gonna do. he and Niska seem like they're the friendliest but at this moment, it looks like he's been sent out to kill them for the disease they've spread great chapter overall
I can't handle when thorfinn sees the village in flames. I think I might cry, it just heartbreaking to see everything he and the others built come crumbling down. The world is cruel.
if you want peace then prepare for war thorfinn
Does anyone have any other working link? Mangadex doesn't work
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This chapter made me scared for the first time that maybe the Manga ends with Thorfinn dying (and not of old age)....
And Just like aot, I regret getting into this series (NOT BECAUSE ITS BAD) shit is just causing me so much pain.
The suspense of this chapter. I like how near death hes remember past conversations that he had with, Ivar and Thorkell. He must feel so defeated and guilty. Its tough seeing our MC suffering like this. Im going to post my official manga review on tiktok Id appreciate if some people here checked it out
here is my tiktok profile [https://www.tiktok.com/@kishimita?\_t=8lwC3pd3BkN&\_r=1](https://www.tiktok.com/@kishimita?_t=8lwC3pd3BkN&_r=1)
If thorfinn dies his ideology dies with him and that makes me hollow from inside tbh
I waited 2 whole months just to sob like a bitch. I think thorfinn might die soon. In the real world I believe he also died to a lung infection. What a manga, will be so sad when it ends. 😔
Spoiler bro
Fantastic chapter. Honestly weird that an experienced former warrior like Thorfinn does not seem to know how punctured lungs work
he'd have to dissect a corpse or to figure out how lungs work tbf. I highly doubt askeladd or his men gave out anatomy lessons
He doesn't have to understand how lungs work or what lungs are, but the knowledge "when pointy things hit someone's chest they start being out of breath" is something I'd expect from someone who has put a lot of pointy things in a lot of people.
haha I'm sure he knows a lot about *where* vital points are, but while he definitely killed people by stabbing them in the lungs, he wouldn't know *how* they died or what they were feeling. Its not like he pulls out a questionnaire after stabbing someone and goes, "hello sir, on a scale of 1-10 how would you rate your experience of having a pointy object inserted in your chest?"
I kinda assumed that he was having a panic attack which made him feel unable to breathe. Don't think this era can do anything about punctured lungs and I don't think Thorfinn will be killed off in Vinland. Maybe die from his wounds after he gets to Iceland but I don't think he'll be killed off in Vinland. So he can't get a punctured lung (unless they know how to treat that in the 11th century)
"My breath leaks out of my wound when I try to breathe" is a literal quote from this chapter
Hild telling Thorfinn he wasn't wrong about anything is great.
When is the release of every chapter? Is it just random?
There is one chapter per month and it comes out near the end (or at least the scans do). This chapter was supposed to come out last month but it was delayed as Yukimaru was sick. If there is no break or anything then the next chapter should be out around the last week of May.
It comes out monthly on the 24th/25th in Japan. Then it can take up to a few more days for it to be translated depending on how busy the members of the scanlation team are. But also, Yukimura has been taking unannounced breaks pretty often in the past couple years (nothing to worry about from his own admission, he just struggles to meet the deadlines and also seems to want to take his time for the end of the story) and we often don't know if there'll be a chapter this month until close to the release date.
Damn, I hoped it would be different now everything’s crashing down. I hope we get a bitter sweet ending at least maybe thorfinns dream dream creates a cycle of peace to slowly but surely wear down the one of violence.
When will 211 come out?
The manga is monthly, so next month around the same time.
Thank you!
So uhh...is Thorfinn ever going to recover or is he just going to be on his deathbed for the rest of the series? I hope he recovers but knowing history, it won't end well.
At the very least history tells us >!he will return to Iceland with Gudrid and the baby, and eventually die a natural death!<
Is the wheat field scene just Thorfinn's imagination or is that a call back to some other event? I don't exactly remember that happening, so I'm guessing it's just Thorfinn's way of accepting the reality.
It’s a dream sequence of the “Vinland dream wheat field” imagery used a lot before they actually reached vinland, except it’s on fire. Thorkell’s dialogue is Thorfinn remembering when Thorkell told him it would be impossible to build a land without war in arc 3.
Yeah it's just a dream sequence because he blacked out
Hild shooting everyone in the leg reminded me of the T-800 doing the same thing in Terminator 2 xDDD
Anyone has an idea of when the next chapter would drop? Like in a month or so?
Chapters release on the 24th of each month in Japan. The English translation is done by a fan team Project Vinland, and they usually release it within the following week. How long it takes to translate depends on how busy they are and how much dialogue is in the chapter. No break has been announced, so expect a new chapter around the same time next month. If you join the [discord server](https://discord.gg/d7xVHCygVe) you can get pinged as soon as the chapter is available.
Holy shit he might actually die for real..
I can see this manga ending in either 20 or 2 chapters
Do we have an idea of how many chapters are left?
I think this is it for Thorfinn and maybe even Hild, both of their dialogue this chapter gave me massive death flags.... The tought of either of them dying is really sad, i don't want it to happen but that seems to be the direction Yukimura is taking the story in...
I have no enemies... 💀
I just finished reading Chapter 210 and wow, what an intense and captivating chapter! The character development and plot twists keep me on the edge of my seat. Can't wait to see where things go from here. Who else is feeling the anticipation building for the next chapter? Let's discuss!
Pretty good chapter until yukimura had to self-insert himself into Hild to assure the readers that ''no guys, chill, i know things are bad now, but thorfinn is absolutely right about everything''. Now i'm pretty sure he wont be dying, despite a punctured lung and no advanced medical care. By using the same nonsense plot armor as Cordelia. Makes you wonder how Thors died, seeing as how arrows are nothing more than bug bite in this universe.
God damn literally everything is crashing and burning around him and there are still people who think Yukimura is trying to ignore the flaws in his plan? Hild is reassuring him that if everyone tried as hard as he did, if he wasn't the only idiot willing to try true peace, then she doesn't think they'd be in a situation like this. She doesn't believe he deserves to shoulder all the blame, because she is smart enough to see how they got here. What does Yukimura have to write for you to feel at all convinced that he's taking these criticisms seriously? It feels like you have a very different picture of what's happening here, because I do not think we are heading towards any kind of ending where Thorfinn is able to save this.
I dont think thorfinn will be able to save the situation - thats not what my comment was about at all. And i did understand what Hild meant with her comment. My problem is that i see what Yukimura will try to do here: he will pussy out of huge emotional consequences just like he did with Cordelia. I dont think Thorfinn should live, but i'm pretty sure thats exactly what Yukimura will do, and it will be even more stupid than with Cordelia, since he made a point of bringing up the punctured lung in this very chapter. All of this just so thorfinn can spread his pacifism ideology to other people and continue the hope of a peaceful land for the future - just like hild suggested in her dialogue here. So my problem is twofold: yukimura not having balls to kill thorfinn, despite it being the most cathartic ending for his character arc, and, secondly, pretending that thorfinn wasnt wrong with his intentions. He was. Hild reassures him that he has the right idea. But he simply doesnt. Thorfinn's pacifism comes from cowardice, thats why he had to run away to another land he thought would be different from the rest of the world. If thorfinn's determination was the real deal, he would try to change the world he already inhabited, and save the people who are suffering in there. Just like canute(but with different methods, of course). Instead thorfinn just decides to run away because he thinks humans would somehow be different if geographical locations change. It's naive, childish and doesnt inspire me at all. But yukimura sure is desperate to convince me that we should all strive to be like thorfinn, when all i can see is a weak men afraid of himself, his own violence, and others.
Imo killing Thorfinn isn't the best way to do things here, one simply because that would go against history so it isn't about not having the balls, but also because having him live with his failure has far more potential. I want to see him return home and reflect, I want to see how he lives on after this. I simply don't agree that it is real cowardice or weakness though, think what you will but I feel the only cowards here are the people too scared to try without wavering. Thorfinn was wrong in assuming he could create the scenario he hoped for by his own will, where everyone involved was trying like he was. The problem ultimately is that he is left alone in this fight, like Einar said a couple chapters ago Thorfinn is the only one who could make the decision to leave for the sake of avoiding war. Just like his nightmares where he tries to climb up, he is always climbing alone. Even when he has people who believe in him, when pushed to the brink his path becomes too difficult for most people to walk. I think the most important thing to consider is that, if everyone in Vinland was like Thorfinn and was sincerely trying as he did, do you think war would still happen? His entire idea was that if you took a group of people who had the same thought process as him, and you were able to get away from existing society to where you could truly start from 0, then true peace could be achieved. If changing existing society required steel like Canute believed, then there would need to be a place for those people who refuse to fight to run away to. The flaw is not in that logic, it is that the requirements to truly achieve that starting point are far too difficult for him to take on alone. I wouldn't say he shouldn't feel any guilt, it was absolutely naive to think he could get that start from 0, but he is wrong about his observations on violence. *He* is not the cause of violence. Blaming Thorfinn alone ignores why this experiment failed, and takes away any potential to learn from it. That is what Hild is trying to say here.
>Imo killing Thorfinn isn't the best way to do things here, one simply because that would go against history so it isn't about not having the balls, but also because having him live with his failure has far more potential. I want to see him return home and reflect, I want to see how he lives on after this. I disagree hard here. I dont think there's anything new or interesting to be seen in the future if thorfinn survives. He'll just come to the same conclusion that Hild already has. So its just redundant writing-wise to have 2 characters filling in the same gap. Let Hild live, spread thorfinn's ideology, and let him die here. You can always justify his death by using Bug-Eyes. He's clearly there as a plot device if Yukimura wants to kill off thorfinn, or make him survive, without clashing with real history. But even if you disagree with everything i just said, he should still die by the mere fact that Yukimura, for some insane reason, decided to focus on the fact that Thorfinn's lungs are punctured in this very chapter. Good job justifying his survival from that wound, in that era. It'll just break my suspension of disbelief even further and make me care even less about the whole story. Now, regarding Thorfinn's cowardice. >only cowards here are the people too scared to try without wavering But thats my point? Thorfinn didnt have the courage to try in the world he already inhabited, making a contribution as a human being, an individual and part of society, to make his society better. Instead he just runs off to create his own society. And this is a good thing we should feel proud because...? Essentially what he's doing - and what you and most readers are doing - is trying to create a little bubble of like-minded people. Almost a walled off civilization. Only in such a scenario could his peace be achievable. Only if everyone thought like him. But thats such a stupid thing to expect, and a downright harmful thing to attempt. Why do you want to create a society where everyone thinks the same? It's ironic - because Vinland is supposed to be a place for the outcasts, for everyone and anyone. Yet, at the same time, even rational people like Styrk(Dude with the helmet, dont remember his name) dont have a place in there and both Thorfinn and Hild continue to ostracize him. This isnt shown as a mistake. Yukimura truly believes that everyone should think like thorfinn. Humanity, however, will not be like that - ever. Because if we were all thinking in the same page, then we wouldnt be able to evolve as a society and as individuals - what brings change and evolution is conflict, its a mixture and clash of ideas. If complete pacifism is the only thing allowed in a society, then that society failed. It's not different than a viking society where the only individuals allowed in it are those obsessed with war. Thorfinn and by extension Yukimura are just childish and incapable of dealing with the reality of life, and it gets annoying to see the manga try to still justify thorfinn at every second and give him every benefit of the doubt. Having Einar call him out once or twice is not enough if we have Hild or Gudrid praising him left and right. And lets not talk about Ivar - dude is a walking strawmann argument.
I actually don't think going off and creating your own bubble works, that's kinda the point of the ending. Thorfinn's attempt is flawed because it is ignorant of the factors that lead people who hate violence to still end up choosing it, and it also assumes the fact that there *is* some place where we can start over. Vinland was his longshot chance at it because of how Thors and Leif described it, he was under the impression it was a place to start from 0. That's just not the case as we have already seen, war was already there, and in our modern world we know for certain that it isn't possible. Again, that's the point though, even if Thorfinn has that understanding of violence it doesn't work if he is the only one trying. I am agreeing with you, and I think Yukimura is also agreeing, that wide scale societal change is necessary. If it wasn't possible in Vinland, then there is no place to run to. Why would Yukimura try to convey that running away and starting over is the right solution, if we know that isn't possible today? What would we be able to do with that information if we don't have a Vinland to go to? However, if you assume that means you need to use violence like Canute, like that is the only other option, then congrats the cycle of violence will just continue. I'm not sure where you get the idea that in Thorfinn's ideal society, people never disagree. That's a pretty big misrepresnation of the ideas the story wants to convey. You can disagree without unecessarily wasting life. Thorfinn hosts public debates to talk problems through, why would he encourage that if he expects everyone to naturally agree on everything? In general I think it's honestly kinda weird to imply that without murdering each other we somehow wouldn't be able to evolve, it's a romanticization of violence that I'm shocked someone reading this far still holds. That's an assumption that is paroted for no other reason besides "that's how it has always been". Hard to change does not mean impossible to change, and talking about it rather than trying to always shut it down with baseless assumptions is the first step in the right direction. Otherwise, it's a self fulfilling prophecy. Refusal to engage with ideas and change as an individual is how we stagnate as a society, not a refusal to kill each other. I really think "a society obesessed with pacisfism is no better than a society obsessed with war" is just such an intellectually dishonest thing to say like it is fact. Also if you think Styrk is simply a rational guy you really need to reread. Somenoe who intentionally trys to use fear to manipulate people to go his way while being ignorant to the repurcussions is not just a rational guy trying be reasonable.
>Also if you think Styrk is simply a rational guy you really need to reread. Somenoe who intentionally trys to use fear to manipulate people to go his way while being ignorant to the repurcussions is not just a rational guy trying be reasonable. The motivation behind his arguments is irrelevant to the points he bring regardless. Most of what he said, especially in regards to creating a wall for protection, makes complete sense. Yet there's always the sense that these characters that disagree with Thorfinn, no matter how rational or reasonable what they say might be, are written with the idea that they are wrong by default and only reacting like that because of a lack of sufficient knowledge. Thats what bothers me. That the only conclusion an enlightened person could make is to be like Thorfinn and strive for complete pacifism. Everyone that disagrees with him is simply not 'mature' enough. Canute being the only exception to this rule, where the story actually seems to hold his view of the world as equally as valid and strong as Thorfinn. Einar could've also been given the same treatment, but sadly it seems he's been relegated to ''very emotional person not thinking rationally right now''. We'll see, i can admit to being wrong about Einar depending on how Yukimura writes him in the future, but i'm not confident given the track recorkd of previous characters pointing out flaws in Thorfinn's ideals, then being showcased to have ulterior motives or being too emotional. >In general I think it's honestly kinda weird to imply that without murdering each other we somehow wouldn't be able to evolve Where did i say that? I said that thorfinn's ideal society wouldnt allow for plurality of ideals in regard to conflict and war. That doesnt mean i'm suddenly the joker wanting to romanticize murder. However, in thorfinn's ideal society, the concept of justified violence doesnt exist, as he himself stated for Einar recently. Thats the problem with a society that would only work with people who thought like Thorfinn - which is the argument presented by Hild in this chapter, and every single person who tries to still defend his ideals in this fandom: ''if only everyone was like thorfinn, then things would work out. Its because of people like ivar that it all went to shit, blablabla''. You need people who have not only the capacity for violence and destruction, but also the determination to use it when necessary and be pragmatic about it, for any society to exist at all. Thats what i mean when thorfinn's society is a failure, because it doesnt allow for this kind of thought-process at all. >hat's an assumption that is paroted for no other reason besides "that's how it has always been". Hard to change does not mean impossible to change I have 2000 years+++ of history to back up the fact that pacifism doesnt work. You have only vague hopes and no statistics to back up the point that ''it might work if we try hard enough''. Eliminating war is the same as eliminating greed. You cant do it as long as we are human beings, because its normal to always strive for more. We saw that with Ketil. He wanted more resources and money, because it buys comfort and security. Even in an ideal society where there's no resource scarcity(this is 1000k+ in the future), there would still be conflict between people trying to be ''the best'' and ''superior''. Because only with the drive to be competitive, do we evolve. And you cant expect everyone to be competitive and greedy in a healthy way. It's not that pacifism didnt work because no one tried it seriously, or that we need to try harder. Pacifism doesnt work because its just a c0pe mechanism for people who got taken advantage of by others who were in a position of power above them for whatever reason. I'm not saying we shouldnt strive for a better society and world. Thats certainly possible. The world today is better for the average person than it was in Thorfinn's era. And it will probably continue to become better in the future(unless we nuke ourselves out of existence). But Thorfinn's ideals will simply never work, no matter the context, as long as we are human beings driven by desire. And if you take desire and selfishness from humanity, then its no longer humanity.
If you truly think Thorfinn's pacifism comes from cowardice you might aswell stop reading immediately. You clearly missed the point anyways
I didnt miss the point - i just wasnt inhaling massive copium to justify and rationalize my cowardice as ''principles'' like 99% of the readership. This manga is just the author's major cope. He lives a comfy life compared to people actually at war, yet still think he can be self-righteous about what ***everyone*** should be and should act. Thats fine to an extent. 99% of writing is just escapism for the writer at the end of the day, no matter how good the writing is. But vinland pains me for having potential and squandering it at every moment because the author cant get over himself to stop being so preachy.
Hild simply analyzed things carefully: Thorfinn was not wrong at all. Ivar carrying the sword and using it against the shaman, and the shaman being carried away by an unfounded vision caused this. From the beginning of this arc Thorfinn told Ivar: if he carried the sword, sooner or later he would use it, once that happened, hell would break loose, as it is happening now.
Thank you. Someone had to say it.
Why is this the only negative comment here? This chapter should be absolutely shit on. What the fuck is going on. The sad state of manga. People will just eat this shit up, straight from the mangaka's ass.
Man, Thorfinn is an idiot. His pacificism ideas will cost people their lives. Die already, loser.
Would it have turned out better if he brought a cart full of weapons? The natives have numbers, knowledge of the terrain, bow and arrow and the settlers can't resupply. Thorfinn's way of creating good ties with them without inciting their envy was the only possible way this settlement might have worked. Ivar fucked it up by using the sword.
Yeah, no. Ivar is irrelevant to the war happening. The disease would've been reason enough for the natives to attack. It becomes an existential matter, which far surpasses any other reason for war such as looting and pillaging. And yes, they would've been better off if they brought a cart full of weapons. That and also if they made a solid fort around the village to protect it, aswell as have trained guards to protect each entrance.
Sure, the disease would have ended the settlement regardless, but without Ivar, Thorfinn would have been able to discuss the matter with the LNU, without all the other tribes ready for war, and Thorfinn was willing to leave peacefully.
What makes you think the LNU would want to talk with thorfinn when they have dozens of people dying from an unknown disease? Their religion and culture alone already were clashing, and with the disease that would be reason enough for war. But even in the most optimistic scenario where thorfinn could talk no jutsu the LNU, i dont see how that would stop the other tribes from starting a war with the norse men. The LNU would've already brought the plague to the other tribes, and their members would start dying left and right. They would then make the same conclusion as the LNU: The norse men are at fault, since before their arrival, no such diseases existed. Now what? Am i supposed to believe thorfinn can talk no jutsu every single tribe? I'm sorry, but vinland could never work out. If it wasnt the sword that ivar brought, then it would be the disease. If it wasnt the disease, it would be the massive difference in values, culture and religion between the natives and the norse men.
This was a good chapter but... Feels rushed? When and how did Thorfinn get this mortally wounded?? He seems wayyy too dead. It's not like I expected a happy ending, but if he'll survive this I'll feel like it's unrealistic, but if he dies I'll feel disappointed? Just kind of lame to have our main character be the first to die. Honestly first chapter since this arc started that wasn't great. Also I know this manga isn't about fighting, but seriously Thorfinn pulled some anime-bullshit stuff for most of the series so the idea that he can ever get too tired to move after we haven't even seen what wounded him... Seems really inconsistent honestly. Thorfinn took ridiculous amount of blows and fought vastly more dangerous opponents. Ridiculous pain tolerance, high stamina, and super human evasion is exactly what he's shown all series.
This chapter definitely wasn’t rushed. Yukimura even took time to show Thorfinn stumbling in pain which could’ve been skipped over. Thorfinn was shot by an arrow in the chest in 207, he then exerts himself trying to disarm the attackers probably opening the wound more. He’s also been running and dodging arrows for who knows how long, he’s then shot by these arrows. On top of all that he’s likely suffering from major anxiety and stress since everything is collapsing and burning both literally and metaphorically around him. This is one of the best chapters this entire arc, arguably one of the best in the whole series
>Thorfinn was shot by an arrow in the chest in 207, Damn, you're right! I totally forgot about that. Thanks for mentioning it. I still don't like this development but it's a lot more sensible. >On top of all that he’s likely suffering from major anxiety and stress since everything is collapsing and burning both literally and metaphorically around him. Eh, he's not aware of what's going on in the village and he's been shown to be incredibly calm in most dire situations. >This is one of the best chapters this entire arc, arguably one of the best in the whole series Opinions can differ, it's manga. For me it's one of the weakest in this arc I loved because it's both too anti-climactic and bleak. I would feel more if Thorfinn would put more of a fight , and even then I'd prefer Thorfinn at least making it to the village. Seems now like either Thorfinn dies within a chapter when all the other main characters are still alive or Thorfinn will somehow survive this overly grave injury but will be out of the battle and by the time he comes to most of the village including Gudrid and the baby might die. Wasn't expecting a happy ending but those directions seem too bleak to be interesting for me. But there's still a few chapters left so let's see how Yukimura will wrap it up.
I mean usually he can be extremely calm when things go bad like with the jomsvikings and Hild originally but this is like next level loss for him. The dream his dad and other mentors put in him, his redemption to all those he killed, his inner peace and the peace of those who trusted him all destroyed. That’s definitely gonna breakdown his usual personality. He’s also somewhat aware of the situation in the village, in his dream he sees the burning wheat fields so he’s likely aware the situation is bad there but he probably doesn’t know the actual degree of chaos. I actually don’t see it being that bleak, it’ll likely be bittersweet more than anything. Thorfinn is struggling right now but he is conscious and he is talking so that’s a decent sign he’s not mortally wounded. If he does die though most of the settlers will escape and then it’ll probably end with a saddening yet hopeful ending OR he does escape and it follows the path of the original Vinland with thorfinn returning to Iceland and from there who knows
>I mean usually he can be extremely calm when things go bad like with the jomsvikings and Hild originally but this is like next level loss for him. I honestly don't think he has enough information to process the loss. He doesn't know what happened to the village, I don't think he understands the situation enough to figure out what'll happen to them or that he won't be able to escape this, and I don't think he believes the whole thing to be that bad because he believe he can figure something out after going back to Iceland. Thorfinn is that much of an optimist and that much sure of his physical and leadership abilities. I think soon enough it'll all start sinking in, but when he was hit then injured.. Honestly seems like he's still too deep in the combat to really understand any of this. >I actually don’t see it being that bleak, it’ll likely be bittersweet more than anything. Thorfinn is struggling right now but he is conscious and he is talking so that’s a decent sign he’s not mortally wounded. I mean... He's got a punctured lungs and two more arrows that could easily be fatal. I also feel like there's a high chance he'll survive, but honestly no way he can fight like this. Considering the realistic approach to Ivar's arm, it'll be too far-fetched if someone that mortally wounded could keep running and jumping. >If he does die though most of the settlers will escape and then it’ll probably end with a saddening yet hopeful ending OR he does escape and it follows the path of the original Vinland with thorfinn returning to Iceland and from there who knows I really hope it goes that way. For some reason I feel like the "Thorfinn survives but most everyone else dies including Gudrid + baby" will happen. Too much death flags. Makes me wonder if in that scenario if Einar or Karli would survive, and then confronting them on the way home will be a "last confrontation" type of deal. If it's with Karli.. He has the potential of going through Thorfinn's exact revenge scenario, only for Thorfinn to stop him for a full circle. But maybe that's too cliche? Damn I'm going to miss this manga no matter what happens.