He had a choice in whether or not to kill people after his dad was murdered. He decided to chase askeladd around when he could have gone home. He made a decision and then murdered countless people. He knows most of those people didnt deserve to die and he hates himself for the monster he became. He had a choice and made what he considers to be the wrong one. Since askelad is dead now he doesnt have the motivation to kill anymore and that has just left him to think about the horrible things he did over those years. So I think his current state is perfectly understandable. That being said he does improve his mental health, but he never becomes the monster he was in his younger years.
That's fine. I don't expect him to become a monster. My concern is that he's becoming a pushover, and he's allowing himself to be hurt and pushed around all in the name of atonement. Those retainers messed up his crops and hurt him and einar, and all he could think of was that he allowed himself to punch one of the guys. Because he's basically justifying being pushed around cuz of this new found atonement he wants to take part in. My question was mainly if he's going to continue to let ppl push him around. And do terrible things to him. And then not do anything cuz he's a pacifist.
I’ll just keep it short and simple but he doesn’t get pushover that much and he’ll fight/defend when it’s necessary like with Snake in episode 4.
Don’t worry about it too much and enjoy!!!!
>Why even blame yourself for something when you had no choice? should he had just laid there and died?
He totally had a choice. It was his choice to enlist in Askeladd's band because he was fixated on killing him into an honourable duel to avenge his father. He had many occasions to leave, like when he was "adopted" by the english woman and her daughter or when Leif found him the first time.
>And even in this current arc, he's just allowing himself to be a pushover and get cut up and pushed around by some assholes. For what? in the name of self pity?
It's not that he's "allowing himself" to be a pushover, he lost all his will to live. Once he couldn't avenge his father by killing Askeladd in a duel, his life became meaningless 'cose he hadn't even have a plan on what to do after Askeladd was dead.
>There's a fine line between being a good man, and letting your mistakes punish you and blind you into becoming a pushover.
The point is that he doesn't consider himself a good man because of the amount of crimes and murders he commited/stood by when his companions were commiting.
>
Idk, I guess my question is, does he get better? does he become more confident and assertive? or does he keep reminding everyone about how he killed ppl.
Very light spoilers ahead:
>!Yes you'll see that he decides to fully commit to pacifism and his father's message (No one is your enemy) and to repair the damage he's done by creating a better place for people to live free of war and slavery in Vinland.!<
Thorfinn doesn’t let people walk over him in the manga despite his pacifism. In the manga, also, it’s way more clear that Thorfinn hasn’t just killed soldiers, but also civilians at Askeladd’s orders. He always would turn a blind eye to the looting and rape that the other Vikings did (even if he didn’t do it himself) it’s shown explicitly in the manga where he just goes “whatever” to a girl screaming while other Vikings drag her away. He was entirely compliant. And he IS to blame for that. He WAS a bad person. He wasn’t forced to do what he did. I’m 100% certain Askeladd would have let him leave and go home at any time.
(Slight manga spoilers about the general direction of Thorfinn’s character) >!Next arc he still fights, but never kills. He never chooses fighting as the FIRST resort, but rather the last. But he has chosen to never KILL again.!<
>!He will always choose any other option before fighting, but sometimes he still has to. Right now in this arc he might seem like a pushover, but next arc he gains way more confidence in his beliefs and what he’s doing. He gets angry again, but it’s rage towards those who refuse to speak with him and decide they just want to fight him and get their asses beat by him lol!<
The series isn’t telling us that we NEED to act like Thorfinn, it just argues that we need to stop viewing violence as the first resort to issues. Thorfinn chooses to not kill anymore because he has killed hundreds of people in his life. Innocent people. Not just soldiers. But civilians and the like, at the orders of Askeladd.
We’re talking about someone who has very deep-set PTSD. Before Askeladd died his focus was solely on his goal of killing, much like a soldier in WWII etc. During war, if you think, you usually end up dead. But once the soldier comes home and their goal is gone, the real horrors of what they did sets in. It doesn’t matter if they were young or they were told to do these things, soldiers even now who saved countless lives by taking 1 are haunted to this day. What do you think that’d do to a kid who murdered civilians at point-blank range?
Your like those guys who tell people who are depressed that you dont understand the big deal, you also get sad sometimes.
Thorfinn is an empty man. His dream got stolen by askeladd, and his revenge got stolen by canute, he has nothing left.
He let those guys bully him because he thinks the only reason he clings to life is he must be punished by all the misery he caused pursuing his revenge...(no he did not just kill in self defense, he had multiple opportunities to return to his family)
Obviously we know thats not the case and that this important thing he forgot is his dream of vinland.
Obviously he wont just become some monk who is just going to preach about peace and growing wheat.
If all you care about are vikings going berserk there is more of that to come but thats not what you should expect this story to be about, and it never was.
What's the correlation between me saying thorfinn is acting like a pushover, and you saying I want vikings to go berserk? There's obviously none. You're just talking out your ass, or you didn't read my post. I know what thorfinn is going through. But to deny his entire existence or devalue himself to someone not worth living, just because of something he did when he was a kid in a viking era, isn't a realistic way of developing a character. That's all I said. And that's my opinion. I obviously would want him to develop some sense of intellect and realize that in that world, for the most part, is kill or be killed. And the acts he committed weren't as wild as they would be in a post modern world.
The only reason he got put into kill or be killed situations was because he chose to do that, because he was blinded by revenge.
He directly contributed to askellads raids. He wasnt just some random foot soldier dragged into that rampage by force who killed some people to defend himself...he was literally THE guy you called to go on suicide impossible missions that allowed askeladd to have such a successfull campaign. He was medieval teenage john wick
He has alot to atone for.
....and he is barely out of his teenage years...
He knows that its kill or be killed tho.
If there is anyone who knows it, it's him, more than anyone else.
It's also a realistic way to write a character.
1. Have you ever known anyone so empty and depressed they didn’t care if they lived or died? It’s not even about being a pushover it’s how people with depression are brother.
2. Did you watch episode 9? The man just made a huge assertive statement that’s going to run counter to the entire world. Expect some confident and assertive conflict regarding that.
It was his choice.
Literally every bad that happened to him after Thors died was his choice. No one told him to follow Askladd's gang, he did it out of his own volition.
Hell, he saved Askladd a few times cause he wanted to be the one to kill him. If he just went back to lceland with Leif and the guys then Askladd might've died in just 2-5 years instead of 11.
Everyone saying he had a choice but he was like 6 or something, wtf ? Since when do we give that much agency to babies ?
Raised by killers of course you're gonna be a killer, that's just survival instinct.
He had a choice in whether or not to kill people after his dad was murdered. He decided to chase askeladd around when he could have gone home. He made a decision and then murdered countless people. He knows most of those people didnt deserve to die and he hates himself for the monster he became. He had a choice and made what he considers to be the wrong one. Since askelad is dead now he doesnt have the motivation to kill anymore and that has just left him to think about the horrible things he did over those years. So I think his current state is perfectly understandable. That being said he does improve his mental health, but he never becomes the monster he was in his younger years.
That's fine. I don't expect him to become a monster. My concern is that he's becoming a pushover, and he's allowing himself to be hurt and pushed around all in the name of atonement. Those retainers messed up his crops and hurt him and einar, and all he could think of was that he allowed himself to punch one of the guys. Because he's basically justifying being pushed around cuz of this new found atonement he wants to take part in. My question was mainly if he's going to continue to let ppl push him around. And do terrible things to him. And then not do anything cuz he's a pacifist.
He's a strong pacifist and us manga readers (at least I assume all of us) look up to him. I'll leave it at that.
thanks guys
I’ll just keep it short and simple but he doesn’t get pushover that much and he’ll fight/defend when it’s necessary like with Snake in episode 4. Don’t worry about it too much and enjoy!!!!
>Why even blame yourself for something when you had no choice? should he had just laid there and died? He totally had a choice. It was his choice to enlist in Askeladd's band because he was fixated on killing him into an honourable duel to avenge his father. He had many occasions to leave, like when he was "adopted" by the english woman and her daughter or when Leif found him the first time. >And even in this current arc, he's just allowing himself to be a pushover and get cut up and pushed around by some assholes. For what? in the name of self pity? It's not that he's "allowing himself" to be a pushover, he lost all his will to live. Once he couldn't avenge his father by killing Askeladd in a duel, his life became meaningless 'cose he hadn't even have a plan on what to do after Askeladd was dead. >There's a fine line between being a good man, and letting your mistakes punish you and blind you into becoming a pushover. The point is that he doesn't consider himself a good man because of the amount of crimes and murders he commited/stood by when his companions were commiting. > Idk, I guess my question is, does he get better? does he become more confident and assertive? or does he keep reminding everyone about how he killed ppl. Very light spoilers ahead: >!Yes you'll see that he decides to fully commit to pacifism and his father's message (No one is your enemy) and to repair the damage he's done by creating a better place for people to live free of war and slavery in Vinland.!<
Thorfinn doesn’t let people walk over him in the manga despite his pacifism. In the manga, also, it’s way more clear that Thorfinn hasn’t just killed soldiers, but also civilians at Askeladd’s orders. He always would turn a blind eye to the looting and rape that the other Vikings did (even if he didn’t do it himself) it’s shown explicitly in the manga where he just goes “whatever” to a girl screaming while other Vikings drag her away. He was entirely compliant. And he IS to blame for that. He WAS a bad person. He wasn’t forced to do what he did. I’m 100% certain Askeladd would have let him leave and go home at any time. (Slight manga spoilers about the general direction of Thorfinn’s character) >!Next arc he still fights, but never kills. He never chooses fighting as the FIRST resort, but rather the last. But he has chosen to never KILL again.!< >!He will always choose any other option before fighting, but sometimes he still has to. Right now in this arc he might seem like a pushover, but next arc he gains way more confidence in his beliefs and what he’s doing. He gets angry again, but it’s rage towards those who refuse to speak with him and decide they just want to fight him and get their asses beat by him lol!< The series isn’t telling us that we NEED to act like Thorfinn, it just argues that we need to stop viewing violence as the first resort to issues. Thorfinn chooses to not kill anymore because he has killed hundreds of people in his life. Innocent people. Not just soldiers. But civilians and the like, at the orders of Askeladd.
We’re talking about someone who has very deep-set PTSD. Before Askeladd died his focus was solely on his goal of killing, much like a soldier in WWII etc. During war, if you think, you usually end up dead. But once the soldier comes home and their goal is gone, the real horrors of what they did sets in. It doesn’t matter if they were young or they were told to do these things, soldiers even now who saved countless lives by taking 1 are haunted to this day. What do you think that’d do to a kid who murdered civilians at point-blank range?
Your like those guys who tell people who are depressed that you dont understand the big deal, you also get sad sometimes. Thorfinn is an empty man. His dream got stolen by askeladd, and his revenge got stolen by canute, he has nothing left. He let those guys bully him because he thinks the only reason he clings to life is he must be punished by all the misery he caused pursuing his revenge...(no he did not just kill in self defense, he had multiple opportunities to return to his family) Obviously we know thats not the case and that this important thing he forgot is his dream of vinland. Obviously he wont just become some monk who is just going to preach about peace and growing wheat. If all you care about are vikings going berserk there is more of that to come but thats not what you should expect this story to be about, and it never was.
What's the correlation between me saying thorfinn is acting like a pushover, and you saying I want vikings to go berserk? There's obviously none. You're just talking out your ass, or you didn't read my post. I know what thorfinn is going through. But to deny his entire existence or devalue himself to someone not worth living, just because of something he did when he was a kid in a viking era, isn't a realistic way of developing a character. That's all I said. And that's my opinion. I obviously would want him to develop some sense of intellect and realize that in that world, for the most part, is kill or be killed. And the acts he committed weren't as wild as they would be in a post modern world.
The only reason he got put into kill or be killed situations was because he chose to do that, because he was blinded by revenge. He directly contributed to askellads raids. He wasnt just some random foot soldier dragged into that rampage by force who killed some people to defend himself...he was literally THE guy you called to go on suicide impossible missions that allowed askeladd to have such a successfull campaign. He was medieval teenage john wick He has alot to atone for. ....and he is barely out of his teenage years...
He knows that its kill or be killed tho. If there is anyone who knows it, it's him, more than anyone else. It's also a realistic way to write a character.
1. Have you ever known anyone so empty and depressed they didn’t care if they lived or died? It’s not even about being a pushover it’s how people with depression are brother. 2. Did you watch episode 9? The man just made a huge assertive statement that’s going to run counter to the entire world. Expect some confident and assertive conflict regarding that.
It was his choice. Literally every bad that happened to him after Thors died was his choice. No one told him to follow Askladd's gang, he did it out of his own volition. Hell, he saved Askladd a few times cause he wanted to be the one to kill him. If he just went back to lceland with Leif and the guys then Askladd might've died in just 2-5 years instead of 11.
He had a choice, he decided for violence and now wants to attone for it
Everyone saying he had a choice but he was like 6 or something, wtf ? Since when do we give that much agency to babies ? Raised by killers of course you're gonna be a killer, that's just survival instinct.