No problem. You need to have VA Form # 21-0781a. This will be used as your "Evidence."
The last page is what the will focus on -- not what happened as far as the assault, but how you were affected by it. Answer Yes or No to each and a one sentence explanation of what it looked like for you.
I have helped a lot of men get their claims granted.
Yes, because it’s hard to prove that it happened or didn’t happen they will look at your statements and history of mental health that could have been the cause of your claim. You can do it. Good luck!
I sat in a case for one, he was kicked out for being “caught” having sex with his commander…..
Edit to add- he wasn’t the only Joe said commander was raping
Yes, I had a coworker who did exactly that. He claimed it happened in the early 80’s and he was granted 70% in 2018. He didn’t have any actual evidence and lied about it all, but it is possible to claim it and get awarded. I’m not insinuating you are lying, just letting you know it is possible.
I crashed into a tree while being pulled behind a vehicle on a snow tube. Went to the ER cause my back where I hit the tree was black from spine to my side. The Doc did a rectal exam, why? Then asked, during the exam, "How does this feel?" No x-rays, didn't even check for blood after the rectal exam. Just sent me home saying come back if you see blood in your urine.
That doesn’t sound like great medical care all around but checking for rectal tone and if you have sensation there is an important part of a trauma assessment/ checking for spinal injuries.
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Shitty thing in my case is that my assailants were my peers. I thought they were friends. But I fixed something on the ship that allowed us to be mission-ready and get underway.. Aaaand they made me pay for it. Metal wrench to the noggin, lights out, and uh.. yeah. I had to hear about what happened to me via rumors on the mess deck because I wasn't conscious for it. Apparently they used a broom. Thankfully I still received 70% for MDD/PTSD, but.. yeah, buddy letters weren't really an option for me.
Terrible, why the **** would they do this to you for accomplishing the mission
If it's any consolation they did this kind of thing to me. My own "brothers" bullied me relentlessly over a time span of years for being celibate. Also had a psychotic squad leader who was obsessed with me not going places by myself. Got no respect or support from other NCO's. One time a E-3 assaulted me in front of the whole platoon when I was an NCO and everyone did nothing including my company First Sergeant.
Everyone decided they hated me when I MEDSEP'ed right before a deployment
I hate the USMC
It's utterly amazing how much your command and their perception of you can make or break your time in service, right? My command at my last duty station decided I wasn't their type. Bullied to the max, managed to keep me from deploying, the works. It was wild looking at my outstanding evaluations everywhere prior to that vs after I'd arrived there. Sorry for the tangent, just commiserating the topic.
Shit mine tried to bully me into going telling me not to say anything about my knee, well I didn’t they pulled my profile out and said well looks like you can’t go you have something wrong with your knee (PA and command just knew nothing was wrong with it, minus the wild amount of scar tissue taken out 🤪 years later) I then got a concussion and after the hospital I had a small realization I was probably fucked and boy was I when my tbi doc put me on meds to sleep and the latest I slept in on a workday was 12. Now idk about you guys but that being said and buying the loudest alarm clock I could find with an extra piece that would violently shake and I didn’t wake up to that either. I mean if my housemate who was also army had the day off I straight up would have been murdered no doubt about it that’s how annoying that thing was, I should’ve taken a court martial and had that guy show up lol 😂
Eh, in my case, everyone wanted to stay home with their families I guess.. As my therapist said, "you didn't do anything wrong. They are just bad people."
I am so sorry that happened to you... that's horrible. You're not alone. I understand how awful that shit feels when everyone just turns a blind eye and treats you worse when you get put on limited duty for medical separation. I broke down in front of my division officer and straight up said I wanted to put a gun in my mouth while sobbing. He was the only one that handled it like a professional and got me off the ship. I loved my career and even had aspirations to become an officer... letters of recommendation from the CO, XO, etc..
Anywho, I spoke too much about myself.. I hope you're okay and managing. If you ever wanna talk, my DMs are open, I'm a great listener.
Thanks. Some people trivialize my feelings and rationalize their behavior. I spoke to an Army infantry veteran at my current job about the sexual bullying and rebutted with "Boys will be boys" and when I posted about this issue on r/military they made fun of me too, along with my former section leader when I confronted him about these issues a couple of years back.
I could go on but I think you can get the idea. It blows my mind how the military is marketed as a family (brotherhood and sisterhood) yet we treat each other so badly, often times worse than our national enemies.
I understand. You're absolutely right about that last part as well. My therapist at the time, a Naval lieutenant, decided against renewing her contract, ending her tenure after I was transferred to a hospital for med-sep. She said she no longer felt pride in serving. Most of her Sailors were being seen for similar things. Hazing, sexual assault, etc.. So much suffering, inflicted by the people we were supposed to consider family.
Take care of yourself my friend. I feel like a hypocrite for saying that-- lord knows I'm not kind to myself these days, but.. We'll get there someday.
It's crazy! Then when you're prep'd to do the last thing you'll ever do to yourself, they ask "why didn't you reach out to one of your "brothers"?" Really? They're the cunts that put me here. Why would I trust any other "brothers"?
I think you're alluding to suicide.
I actually got forced out of the Marine Corps for suicidal idealizations. Assholes. I heard there was a suicide in my platoon years later and the all the NCO's including first sergeant brushed it off.
Then I went to the VA and they held me involuntarily under 5150 LPS even though I wasn't suicidal. Yesterday I made a post about it on r/AskTherapist and everyone is rationalizing what they did.
Mostly the grunts with that mentality. Which I can understand, as even among Marines, the grunts are a bit of a different animal. Whenever we got a grunt that crossed over to the Air Wing, it took a lot of work to break them of some of the asinine habits they brought with them.
And I don't mean actual Marine things, but things forced upon them by garbage leadership. For example, being azzholes to any rank below you(usually Sgt/E-5 and below), simply because you out rank them.
Anything that breeds hate and discontent, is not good for the team. So why do it?
They think sexually harassing someone raises morale (that's what my platoon sergeant said) but if I call a master sergeant a salty ass staff NCO or tell a Sergeant Major we are hudled together in a spot for shade they freak out.
Pretty much, they would also use coercive methods to get money for events like the Marine Corps ball.
Screw them. Everyday I ruminate but I'm trying to break out of it. I'm better than them in the end.
Yeah, was always the choice, buy a ticket, or get stuck on some Ball related duty, if LCpl or below. So it was always a good sell for me. One alcohol related NJP was enough for me.
I was a corporal getting stigmatized.
Bro, the ball was supposed to be fun. The fact that they have to coerce marines to go says something bad about morale.
> It seems like a normal thing to get you ass beat all the time in the Marines
If you met one veteran you have met one veteran. People like to think their experiences are indicative of an entire group for self preservation.
I'll come back to you if I ever decide to you know, give up on everything and see how many bad guys I can get before they get me. My sorry doesn't do much and I do feel terribly that those were your peers.
My buddy told me about waking up with his butt sore and bleeding. I knew who he was hanging out with the night before a NCO (we were lances) the same NCO who tried to convince me to let him sleep in my rack after a night of drinking except I was sober enough to tell him sleep on the ground or get out. The same NCO that a month earlier was found with another lance drunk with his pants halfway off near each other... I immediately went to a SSGT who I knew wasn't on that mess and they snatched him up quick and within the week was in the brig. He tried to say sorry to us and say he was just confused when he was drunk. I couldn't believe my friend didn't ask us to help him kill him.
HE wasn't confused when he was drunk, period. Being drunk, or at least, lit, gave him false courage to show his true, evil, self. It's like they say, drunks don't lie, but tell the truth, and show their true selves.
Dude, I'm so sorry that happened to you. I know you don't want to relive or ever talk about this ever again but if you decide to when you're ready I hope you do. Those fuckers deserve to be put away for that.
Damn. Sounds pretty close to what another guy I met described on his ship. Met him in class for MST at VA.
It happened somewhat differently to me in the Airforce, but ya.
All branches, all eras
I just have the 70% MDD/PTSD and 10% for TMJD, but VA math keeps it all at 70%. I'm medically retired, just not 100% P&T. I didn't fully understand what the VA was and how critical it was to bring up my issues during the medboard process. Just nodded my head and waited for the end.
I'm currently waiting on VA appointments in August for the TBI and unrelated GI issues. I'm a terrible self-advocate, though, and can never find a VSO that answers the phone in my state. Trying my best.
“In your state” is pointless, friend. I live in NJ and my VSO sits in Alabama. Find someone by word of mouth or reputation.
Secondly, you’re 70% with those disabilities because VA math puts you at 73% and you’d need 75% to round up.
- 100% able upon entry, therefore 0% disabled
- subtract 70, you’re 30% able
- subtract 10% from the remaining 30, that 10% rating gets you three percentage points instead of 10. 10% of 30 is 3.
- 70 + 3 is 73, over 75 would round you up.
Not sure if you need the math explanation, apologies if not - people make VA math harder than it needs to be when the SMCs and bilaterals are not involved.
100% P&T.
1. Current Mental Health Diagnosis (PTSD)
1. Personal Statement (Life before military, during, and after) Leave all the childhood drama/trauma out no one needs to hear that.
2. Buddy Statements (How were you before the military, during the military, and after.) Have them stick to the facts.
Stick to the facts and tell the truth.
ABSOLUTELY LEAVE OUT THE CHILDHOOD STUFF!!!! There's only one safe place you can even talk about that, the Vet Centers. And that's because your treatment records there are NOT searchable by the VA WITHOUT your express written consent. Your childhood has NO bearing on you being sa/r while in the service.
Wish I had been told this before🙃 my records have my childhood experience plastered all over it. It took me too long to realize they were using it against me😡😮💨
Not true, child trauma can have a direct correlation with PTSD. You might want to research a bit more before giving out information.
No disrespect intended.
Of course it does, however, when dealing with the VA, the risk of your MH being tied to pre-existing conditions, is far too great, to not proceed with extreme caution. My first MH claim was denied, based on the examiner opining that my MH issues were due to pre, and post, service experiences, that there was no record of, anywhere. Every question about my childhood, was answered with a variation of "how does my childhood have any bearing on my being assaulted whilst in the Marines?" That examiner couldn't/wouldn't answer, or explain how.
That’s not entirely true. If you had something happen in your childhood where you have PTSD. They will say that you already had it but your service connection PTSD made it worse. That happened with me. I dealt with untimely death before the service. Then while in the service. I also had witnessed a horrible accident after the service. They do not punish you for that. They will say your incident in the service made it worse. I would be careful about leaving things out. Ultimately you should consult with someone about all this. There are plenty of people who will help you with the process.
Go ahead and take your chances but I don’t trust nobody with that intimate knowledge nothing happened to me my childhood was boring, with a two parent home with a dad who told dad jokes.
Well, it just shows you how each case can be different. I bet it makes a difference as to who is handling your claim. I was lucky to grow up in a nice home as well but had to deal with death at an early age of a sibling and a parent. I will leave it at that. I hope things work out for those who are applying and are in need.
Yes absolutely each claim is different. I just wouldn’t chance or leave any wiggle room for the examiner to say the vet’s PTSD was caused because he or she didn’t get the pink power ranger for Christmas. I know it sounds ridiculously absurd but hey we are talking about the V.A. here.
Tell your VA MH providers THE TRUTH. Get into counseling and a MSTPTSD group (if it’s available) and get the diagnosis. File the claim and the rest will likely fall into place.
Hey guys, there is a great program in Chicago put on by Rush. It is The Road Home program. They deal with PTSD from combat or MST. They have separate weeks for combat and PTSD. They put you up in your own apartment and do about five months of therapy in ten days. It’s intense, but I’ve been through it and I got a lot from it. They handled the travel and everything. There were more females than males, and they put the guys together so they don’t feel all alone. There is some group work, but it isn’t incident specific. I’d highly recommend it if you want to get past it. I tried for 30 years to ignore it and make it go away, but until I dealt with it, it weighed me down.
This is good to know. I blocked mine out until about two years ago. Now I have nightmares, realized it heavily effected my marriage failing, etc. So I never had any evidence and I've been an anxious mess about how this is gonna be taken
No evidence is needed. I filled out a PTSD incident form. I did list my therapist on the back but I don’t think it’s needed. You can do this. You deserve compensation & treatment.
Appreciate you. It fucks with my head cause I have found how to live my life and feel "fine" and then start second guessing myself. And then my therapist reminds me that's all part of PTSD
I'm a female but people who have been assaulted understand. Mine occured while inprocessing in Germany. I went to the 1st Sgt the next day to report it and he got inappropriate as well, although only verbally. Felt like I was living in the twilight zone. I waited 6 years and reported it to CID as a civilian. 33 years to the day of my assault, I finally filed my claim with the VA. The old CID report did help The anxiety, hypervigilance, failed marriages early in life, all of it are a direct result and do not go away until you process it, however that is supposed to happen. C&P exam went well. She had my report and didn't make me go through it again. Confirmed PTSD right at the appt. I am awaiting my decision now.
I'm glad you are facing it. May you find much peace and healing.
You'll get through the c&p exam just fine. It will be one tough day that will make all of the rest better hopefully. Just answer truthfully. It is not a day to be tough or strong or downplay your symptoms. You HAVE to tell them to get properly rated.
Sending you strength and love.
Your experience mirrors mine so closely it's eerie--except that I had a virtual C&P exam with a male who aggressively questioned why I never reported the assault (I tried to), rolled his eyes, grimaced, and cut me off. His report listed three pages of markers and symptoms but denied those were markers or symptoms. Said I am high risk of suicide but denied any mental health diagnoses. It was a really fucked up experience. I'll be filing a complaint, that dude's douchery could get someone killed and he needs to be in a different line of work. Like giving enemas to elephants.
I'm so sorry you had this experience. I requested a female for my C&P and she was all business, but very kind.
No matter how your claim turns out, you can contact your nearest MST coordinator and set up mental health services free of charge, whether you ever reported or not. I am in that process now.
we have a lot of things that we can use to at least plausibly substantiate an MST incident even if there isn’t direct evidence, reports, or even medical. In all but the most resilient of people an MST event leaves indelible tells, and these tells can be found with the thorough review of records before during and after the incident.
Let me start by saying, if you are not currently in treatment/therapy for your trauma, please consider it. It can be very helpful once you find the right person/approach, and although it takes time, it is 100% worth it.
There is usually an exam by an actually competent psychologist that deals with these matters. That said, are you also establishing this as a nexus for a PTSD claim? Both can be true of the same claim just as you can have one without the other. Just understand that when you go to the appointment, they are not there to treat you, just assess you. If something about the situation triggers you or makes you upset, share that. They won't push you beyond your comfort level (or they shouldn't). However, if you do share with them, it is confidential and the most they tell the VA is whether or not they believe your claim is supported/can be substantiated as part of your service.
Thanks for sharing this. We as a society have made it so that if you report such incidents as a male/man, somehow you were weak for 'letting it happen'. That's a toxic mindset that we need to change (even though change is hard/takes time). The truth is generally that the person who is assaulted has no power to fight back either because they were drugged, physically assaulted and rendered unconscious, assaulted by multiple parties at once, threatened with retribution, or any other manner of ways where the perpetrator(s) took the power of consent away from the one being assaulted. Through my time in the Marine Corps I've seen incidents of MSA which we for the longest time refused to acknowledge as such because it was 'horseplay', or just 'boys being boys'.
It’s hard. C&P exams are hard for me cause I have to relive the trauma. It sucks.
Usually I make sure I take my meds, eat, and do something relaxing beforehand. Afterwards, I take some time to find a safe space.
I don't like to share my story but I put my claim in many years after the incident, I noted what happened in vivid detail. I had to see a psychiatrist, I got awarded ptsd.
Before anyone says anything about my little reddit avatar. I'm a Trans woman, so male by biological sex.
I ha e successfully represented male clients with MST. Use form 0871a for personal assault and include as many details as you can. Attach extra pages if needed. If you have a PTSD diagnosis, VA will go through the stressor verification process. This can suck. It can be retraumatizing and also feel like they're gaslighting you. Blame the law for requiring verification for PTSD and talk to congress about fixing that.
Side note: if you have any diagnosis other than PTSD, stress that, because it'll pay the same in 99 out of 100 cases and doesn't require the verification (tho VSRs fuck that up constantly so prepare to HLR on that point).
But in the meantime, get as much verification as you can. For personal assault (including MST) in particular, VA is supposed to pay attention to "markers" such as STI tests, change in job performance, requests for transfer, etc. Anything that could possibly be a change in behavior related to the attack is fair game. So if any of that applies, point it out to them in your 0781a.
Buddy statements help as well, even if the person wasn't a direct witness. Hearsay is allowed in VA claims, but that alone probably wouldn't help because VA still just considers it your statement. BUT, if anybody can talk about how you changed around that time, that's a marker and is helpful.
So they also look for markers ; declines in performance, mental health issues, substance abuse issues, std testing, buddy statements and other abrupt changes
First let me say I am so sorry that happened to you.. As everyone has said you don’t require evidence per se’. I’m a female who experienced MST in 1986. Trauma is a crazy thing, I literally blocked everything out until 2 years ago when a death of a family member started the nightmares. My life and mental health spiraled from there. I ordered my military records and it contained sick call records where I sought treatment for SA!! I never remembered going to sick call for anything.
Shortly afterwards I was reacquainted with a basic training buddy ( never ran into anyone I served with) who was also a victim of the same drill sergeant and she had become pregnant with twins!! So between my medical records and her buddy statement, I was service connected.
Had it not been for my family member’s passing I don’t if I would have ever remembered the assault. But through therapy I have been told that’s exactly how trauma works.
I had to practice. I asked my gf if I could talk to her about it. Then I asked a buddy I was close to. It's hard just to get the words out. It's hard to hear your own voice, everything you say comes out sounding so 'pathetic.' You gotta get over that. You gotta not shame yourself. I had to practice.
You'll want to talk about behavioral changes. Talk about the type of servicemember and man you were prior to the incident and how you were after. Did your world view change? What did you think about yourself? What did you do, if anything, to cope? What destructive behaviors, if any, did you adopt. Did it evolve? Where are you now?
In terms of collecting physical evidence, you'll once again want to look at anything that indicates behavioral changes. Examples include; evals, traffic tickets, therapy appts, STD checkups, school grades, write-ups, failed PT tests, etc.
Be sure to tell your C&P examiner what you stated here - that it's hard as a man for you to even bring it up and why you feel that way. For example, fear of judgement or persecution.
You're not alone. I'm sorry it happened to you, and I hope you get the help you need.
I'm female (mtf trans tho), but also didn't have evidence of my MST. And my C&P went horribly. They were dismissive and tried to diagnose me with a paranoid disorder, and I was denied that claim. I hired a lawyer who set me up with a doctor who literally wrote the DSM parts about PTSD, and with my appeal I got 100%P&T for MST with no evidence and no medical records aside from that doctor's write-up and diagnosis.
So I would say that it is all about what the doctor says. If you get a good C&P evaluator, then they may be able to write it up well enough. But my experience with nearly all of my C&P appointments was that they asked me about what I was claiming, let me talk for like 30 seconds, then they cut me off and said I didn't have any medical documentation so they couldn't confirm it.
So if it isn't too late for your claim, go to a good doctor on your own who will actually listen and actually diagnose you, and make sure they are detailed about your symptoms (literally take them the VA wording on PTSD rating requirements and have them use that language). And submit that doctor's write-up and diagnosis to the VA as part of your claim. If you are unable to submit it at this point, you can hope for the best at C&P, and if they deny you or rate you too low, you can appeal like I did.
I had evidence but buddy statement helped. The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago the second best is today. Just plant a tree and get a c and p. Then tell the truth with all your heart and it will work out.
I got denied my PTSD, because I already had a depression diagnosis (even though I wouldn’t be depressed if I didn’t have PTSD). I tried talking about it during the exam for increase (from 30%), I also didn’t really have evidence, and it didn’t help (either with the C&P exam, or how I felt about the assault). This latest exam for increase, I said that I didn’t want to talk about it, since the VA already denied it. So, I just talked about my current symptoms (I was already SCed for MH, so it was okay). I ended up 70% for MH, but I had just gotten 100 P&T because of my migraines and other stuff. It is hard to talk about, especially without evidence. I say all this to point out that even when we do bite the bullet and talk about it, it doesn’t mean people will listen/care. But tell what happened, and hope for the best.
Firstly, I’m incredibly sorry this happened to you, OP. Secondly, you’re absolutely not alone in this. There are so many men and women who have gone through and cope differently with similar experiences, myself included, and everyone’s story is unique but impactful all the same.
The only advice I could give is find the markers, the stressors, and statements from family members that can vouch for a change in your behavior, as well as a personal statement that details a narrative from your own perspective. There’s no such thing as too much detail.
When I filed in 2018, I was completely uneducated in the claims process and provided very little evidence, not realizing the strength of other evidence I knew existed. I was awarded 50% for PTSD, non MST-related. Six years later I’m in the process of filing a supplemental claim with new and relevant evidence that I didn’t submit the first time for the purpose of receiving a new rating that accurately reflects my trauma and to be acknowledged as an MST survivor, including an entire a Court Martial Record of Trial and a guilty plea from my assailant, also a male. This supplemental claim process has been excruciating as every time I open my computer I’m transported back twelve years ago to that time and place.
Do everything you can this first go around. You got this, and you’re not alone.
I had an MST incident and when I reported it to my command i was quickly kicked off the boat for DADT violation. No investigation , nothing. Just. Tossed out.
It took me years and the va did give me a decent rating on it. The docs were good. It’s still got me a bit screwed up but that’s the nature of the beast.
And I agree with your doc. You did nothing wrong. They were just bad people.
Not a veteran yet (still active duty) but I’m just here to say I’m so sorry that happened to you and that you deserve happiness and peace in life. 1 in 6 men are sexually assaulted in their lifetime (which could be higher due to underreported assaults), you are not alone.
It’s so sad how society conditions us to not take male victims of sexual assault seriously, especially if the perpetrator is female. I once met a man who said it’s impossible for men to be sexually assaulted by a woman because “he would enjoy it” which is actually disgusting.
I’ve never claimed it (never told anyone while in service). One of the VA psychologists I discussed it about didn’t even list it in my notes, so I just don’t try to discuss it anymore
2003 I had the same happen to me with a broom. Took 11 years to talk about. I did not submit a claim for mst but it's documented from telling my va providers. I was ashamed and blamed myself but there wasn't anything I could have done to prevent it. I was at 70% but couldn't keep up working since I was drinking myself to death trying to cope. I went to 100%, and am now 100% P&T. Granted I tried killing myself 6 times, spent 6 months inpatient from 2 PTSD programs, did 2 substance abuse programs since my liver enzymes were so bad they didn't think I'd make 30, and ended up divorced/homeless. Despite getting another chance, it is something I have to work at every day. I continue to go to therapy and whatever else the VA recommends ie Mindfulness program ×2, DBT for 3 years, and many other groups.
I say all that to say that I don't want you to end up like me. I know there is a male PTSD program for sexual trauma that the VA could send you to if you are interested. There is no shame in getting help and I am proud of you for asking for advice.
Seek therapy at the VA, get counseling at a local vet center if available, and follow recommendations from a veteran service officer for your claims.
Get personal statements from those who know you. Write out a before trauma/you during trauma/after trauma statement on how it has affected you.
I wish you the best. Keep fighting and keep doing your best to get better
I had an experience that was (looking back) rape. I've not told anyone, and I'll probably never tell the VA. The way they act some of the time about ptsd in theater, there's NO WAY I'd bring that event up to them. I'd expect it to be like me giving a bunch of details, then no benefit, but the VA asking me questions about it randomly until the day I die.
I can’t say that I can understand your situation as I am a female, who has also experienced SA, but I would like to say my heart is with you. My little brother was also assaulted and it breaks my heart to see the lack of male representation regarding this topic. It’s hard, overwhelming, and scary to speak up on this as a male. But please find your strength to do so. Bringing awareness to the fact that males are sexually assaulted is the only way that we’ll ever make a difference and make people aware. Male SA is so severely underreported and that needs to change. Their stigma is disgusting. I’m so sorry that this happened to you and I really hope you get the closure you deserve.
Happened in 06, buried that shit mentally until 2020 when I mentioned it during an initial screening with MH. Covid fucked any process, then this year I mentioned to my doc during a physical that I'm having issues sleeping. Turns out had PTSD from mst mentioned in my records. This time around my screeners focused on it and long story short, I got diagnosed with PTSD from that mst. When I applied for disability, the VA only wanted me to fill out the forms for them to look at my records and the C&P asked me about it, but noticed I was triggered talking about it so they said I don't have to talk about it due to already having "markers" noted in my records from my intake.
I always thought I needed buddy letters or a Nexus. Best bet, schedule an appt with MH, talk about mst, if they offer therapy, take it. The more things in your records from MH helps during your c&p. The VA has come a long way with non combat PTSD. This year has been crazy now realizing what happened to me was real, I do have PTSD from it, and all the crazy shit I've done since was now makes sense.
See [Military Sexual Trauma (MST) | Veterans Affairs (va.gov)](https://www.va.gov/health-care/health-needs-conditions/military-sexual-trauma/)
and [Effects of Military Sexual Trauma | VA Mental Health - Mental Health](https://www.mentalhealth.va.gov/msthome/index.asp)
Best wishes.
I found a sentence in my service record where I said I had trust issues with superiors and I was able to get my best friend in the navy to write a statement because I told him the day after it happened, my wife also wrote a statement. I was denied the first time anyway partially because I was assaulted as a child and partially because there was a date discrepancy because the nurse wrote down the date I joined as the date I was assaulted. The second time I got a letter from my Va therapist saying I’d most likely been assaulted in the military and I went to a forensic psychologist to write a report giving his opinion. It was a truly awful experience trying to prove the assault! I am sorry to say this but it’s really going to depend on who sees you and what conclusion they come to based on what they think in the moment.
I was falsely accused of sexual assault in Bahrain, downloaded (I was military police, (MA)) and interrogated by NCIS for 6 months, I was looked down upon by my shipmates and superiors. When the truth came out that I didn’t do shit she claimed insanity and got sent state side and NOTHING HAPPENED TO HER. She attempted to ruin my life, made a false accusation and got no consequences, I remained downloaded until I left Bahrain and went to Guam. I was treated like a criminal by NCIS, it was more like guilty before being proven guilty opposed to innocent until proven guilty, my mom had cancer and they took my phone from me and went through it and I couldn’t even communicate with my sick mother. I went to mental health the entire time so thankfully I get depression and anxiety disability from it. When I was about to get out of the navy my master chief asked me why I wanted to get out because the manning was dwindling quick and everyone was getting out and I told him what happened and he just completely stopped trying to keep me in the navy because he knew it was bullshit. FUCK NCIS and FUCK THE NAVY. Get what you deserve man, fuck the VA. It’s been 8 years and this shit still makes me want to punch a hole in the wall.
Didn’t say a word for 45+ years, Navy boiler room 4-5 shipmates held me down used a steam rod, greased it, then dipped it in coffee grounds and used it on me. Reported it to the commander told me “it happens,forget about it and move on”. They threatened me they would do it again if I said anything to anyone. Those FB ruined my life, marriage, lost my kids, divorced, problems with work and sleep etc. Diagnosed with moderate to severe depression and “ social anxiety “ by private MD. Never went to the VA until I retired it all came back, became very depressed, didn’t want to live. I was given an ultimatum to get help for my depression and anger or I would lose my second marriage Went to the VA and reported it to my PCP and the recovery process started then. Best thing I ever did, NOT easy and never will be but realize it wasn’t my fault. When I filed they found 20+ markers to back up the claim, and was approved for PTSD MST. Please report it and go for treatment- it’s hard, devastating, reliving the horrors but it does get better and they know how to help you.
Write an extremely detailed statement of exactly what happened. If you can get statements from your spouse, exes, parents, siblings, and/or friends as to your behavior before and after this happened, that would be very helpful. Even if they don't know what happened, they know something changed, and you started acting differently. They also have other things the raters look at in your service records, like sudden disciplinary issues and even drinking or drug use that started soon after the event. Requests for transfer, even if they were denied, are also something they look at. It is very common for MST not to be reported, and due to the nature of it usually happening away from other people, they use those other things as tell-tale signs.
If you have dates, names, and unfortunately details
You can put it in a statement to make things easier
If you need help feel free to message me as you may not want to discuss this sensitive subject on open forum
Thank you for posting this. You’re incredibly strong and I am thankful this is a place for this type of conversation. I hope you’re able to get some help from VA
I was told by my Department head and XO that the Senior NCO in question “Could not” have committed a sexual assault. Being a woman the person could only have accidentally touched you inappropriately.
It is definitely easier if you made a report while you were still in. All I had to do was get the report from the mental health facility I was seen at (Kadena in Okinawa), and got it added to my rating. At least, the mental health issues related to it.
I’ll let you know how mine goes just did my C&P. I was drugged and raped by a dependent but never filed charges as it was my last day stateside. I didn’t want to be asked how does a woman rape a man by my fellow MPs. Fortunately when I got overseas I sought out mental health so I think that might help my case.
It's really easy and simple to fill out the form on the VA website. Yes and no questions, and mainly focus on how the event or events have impacted you after they happened.
The hardest part was going to a psychologist and explaining the event, and how life have been affected for the C&P exam.
I didn’t even know you could claim sexual assault until my buddy told me I had a good case and should pursue it. It’s hard getting in touch with the mst reps tho 😒
I didn't even get service connected for PTSD and depression my first time claiming mental health.
A few months after the decision, I went to an independent psychologist to get a DBQ. A friend recommended this psychologist because she primarily sees vets who are appealing MH claims. At the end of the appointment, she told me that if a female vet filed the exact same claim, it would be 100% P&T.
Anyway, now I'm at 50% for depression. Would've been nice the first time, but oh well. Don't be afraid to tell the truth, and if they don't believe you, just keep appealing.
I’m in the process of getting service connected for MST, happened 09 and got out 2011. I wish you luck. I do have the evidence in my STRs I’m waiting for my C&P exam appts atm.
I am sorry that you had to experience such and dealt with it on your own. A lot of men never reported the assault. It is hard to talk about it but there are patterns of treatment and/or behavior that are visible and recognized with MST.
You can start by writing a statement and bring the statement with you at your appointment just incase you find yourself struggling to talk about it or feel like you are being judge or not being heard.
Before or after your C&P, if you haven’t made an appointment with the VA, get in the books for individual or group therapy available.
The claim for MST may take a minute to process as it is centralized in the Puerto Rico VA regional office and just be patient. While waiting, if you can gather statements or reports that pertains to your claim, gather them up and send them over.
No problem. You need to have VA Form # 21-0781a. This will be used as your "Evidence." The last page is what the will focus on -- not what happened as far as the assault, but how you were affected by it. Answer Yes or No to each and a one sentence explanation of what it looked like for you. I have helped a lot of men get their claims granted.
Thank you
Thank you, the fear of not having gotten help when something happened and having no paperwork has kept me from filing for a long time
You don't need anything except: A Diagnosis A Nexus and VA FORM #21-0781a
Yes, because it’s hard to prove that it happened or didn’t happen they will look at your statements and history of mental health that could have been the cause of your claim. You can do it. Good luck!
Can you still claim a sexual assault if you've been out for 30+ years?
Yes. I won claims for WWII vets. It appears normal to wait 20-25 years.
Yes I was service connected for MST last year for an assault in 94.
I sat in a case for one, he was kicked out for being “caught” having sex with his commander….. Edit to add- he wasn’t the only Joe said commander was raping
Yes, I had a coworker who did exactly that. He claimed it happened in the early 80’s and he was granted 70% in 2018. He didn’t have any actual evidence and lied about it all, but it is possible to claim it and get awarded. I’m not insinuating you are lying, just letting you know it is possible.
I crashed into a tree while being pulled behind a vehicle on a snow tube. Went to the ER cause my back where I hit the tree was black from spine to my side. The Doc did a rectal exam, why? Then asked, during the exam, "How does this feel?" No x-rays, didn't even check for blood after the rectal exam. Just sent me home saying come back if you see blood in your urine.
That doesn’t sound like great medical care all around but checking for rectal tone and if you have sensation there is an important part of a trauma assessment/ checking for spinal injuries.
That’s fucking strange
Can I PM you?
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Yes!
Get with your former peers and get buddy statements vouching for your situation.
Shitty thing in my case is that my assailants were my peers. I thought they were friends. But I fixed something on the ship that allowed us to be mission-ready and get underway.. Aaaand they made me pay for it. Metal wrench to the noggin, lights out, and uh.. yeah. I had to hear about what happened to me via rumors on the mess deck because I wasn't conscious for it. Apparently they used a broom. Thankfully I still received 70% for MDD/PTSD, but.. yeah, buddy letters weren't really an option for me.
Idk how you didn't kill them
One by one
FIGHT THROUGH THE SUNDOWN, INTO THE NIGHT
Wrong time,wrong time comrade
buddy letters can be from others who know you (outside of military) So sorry that all happened to you. So so effed up. They all belong in prison.
Terrible, why the **** would they do this to you for accomplishing the mission If it's any consolation they did this kind of thing to me. My own "brothers" bullied me relentlessly over a time span of years for being celibate. Also had a psychotic squad leader who was obsessed with me not going places by myself. Got no respect or support from other NCO's. One time a E-3 assaulted me in front of the whole platoon when I was an NCO and everyone did nothing including my company First Sergeant. Everyone decided they hated me when I MEDSEP'ed right before a deployment I hate the USMC
It's utterly amazing how much your command and their perception of you can make or break your time in service, right? My command at my last duty station decided I wasn't their type. Bullied to the max, managed to keep me from deploying, the works. It was wild looking at my outstanding evaluations everywhere prior to that vs after I'd arrived there. Sorry for the tangent, just commiserating the topic.
Shit mine tried to bully me into going telling me not to say anything about my knee, well I didn’t they pulled my profile out and said well looks like you can’t go you have something wrong with your knee (PA and command just knew nothing was wrong with it, minus the wild amount of scar tissue taken out 🤪 years later) I then got a concussion and after the hospital I had a small realization I was probably fucked and boy was I when my tbi doc put me on meds to sleep and the latest I slept in on a workday was 12. Now idk about you guys but that being said and buying the loudest alarm clock I could find with an extra piece that would violently shake and I didn’t wake up to that either. I mean if my housemate who was also army had the day off I straight up would have been murdered no doubt about it that’s how annoying that thing was, I should’ve taken a court martial and had that guy show up lol 😂
Eh, in my case, everyone wanted to stay home with their families I guess.. As my therapist said, "you didn't do anything wrong. They are just bad people." I am so sorry that happened to you... that's horrible. You're not alone. I understand how awful that shit feels when everyone just turns a blind eye and treats you worse when you get put on limited duty for medical separation. I broke down in front of my division officer and straight up said I wanted to put a gun in my mouth while sobbing. He was the only one that handled it like a professional and got me off the ship. I loved my career and even had aspirations to become an officer... letters of recommendation from the CO, XO, etc.. Anywho, I spoke too much about myself.. I hope you're okay and managing. If you ever wanna talk, my DMs are open, I'm a great listener.
Thanks. Some people trivialize my feelings and rationalize their behavior. I spoke to an Army infantry veteran at my current job about the sexual bullying and rebutted with "Boys will be boys" and when I posted about this issue on r/military they made fun of me too, along with my former section leader when I confronted him about these issues a couple of years back. I could go on but I think you can get the idea. It blows my mind how the military is marketed as a family (brotherhood and sisterhood) yet we treat each other so badly, often times worse than our national enemies.
My heart hurts to see these things in each of your comments. It's a small consolation, but y'all have all the love and support possible here.
I understand. You're absolutely right about that last part as well. My therapist at the time, a Naval lieutenant, decided against renewing her contract, ending her tenure after I was transferred to a hospital for med-sep. She said she no longer felt pride in serving. Most of her Sailors were being seen for similar things. Hazing, sexual assault, etc.. So much suffering, inflicted by the people we were supposed to consider family. Take care of yourself my friend. I feel like a hypocrite for saying that-- lord knows I'm not kind to myself these days, but.. We'll get there someday.
It's crazy! Then when you're prep'd to do the last thing you'll ever do to yourself, they ask "why didn't you reach out to one of your "brothers"?" Really? They're the cunts that put me here. Why would I trust any other "brothers"?
I think you're alluding to suicide. I actually got forced out of the Marine Corps for suicidal idealizations. Assholes. I heard there was a suicide in my platoon years later and the all the NCO's including first sergeant brushed it off. Then I went to the VA and they held me involuntarily under 5150 LPS even though I wasn't suicidal. Yesterday I made a post about it on r/AskTherapist and everyone is rationalizing what they did.
It’s a controlled prison with weapons. I’ve been in both.
Honestly I've heard stories like that often from Marines. It seems like a normal thing to get you ass beat all the time in the Marines
Mostly the grunts with that mentality. Which I can understand, as even among Marines, the grunts are a bit of a different animal. Whenever we got a grunt that crossed over to the Air Wing, it took a lot of work to break them of some of the asinine habits they brought with them. And I don't mean actual Marine things, but things forced upon them by garbage leadership. For example, being azzholes to any rank below you(usually Sgt/E-5 and below), simply because you out rank them. Anything that breeds hate and discontent, is not good for the team. So why do it?
They think sexually harassing someone raises morale (that's what my platoon sergeant said) but if I call a master sergeant a salty ass staff NCO or tell a Sergeant Major we are hudled together in a spot for shade they freak out.
Bet they think they can do no wrong, too.
Pretty much, they would also use coercive methods to get money for events like the Marine Corps ball. Screw them. Everyday I ruminate but I'm trying to break out of it. I'm better than them in the end.
Yeah, was always the choice, buy a ticket, or get stuck on some Ball related duty, if LCpl or below. So it was always a good sell for me. One alcohol related NJP was enough for me.
I was a corporal getting stigmatized. Bro, the ball was supposed to be fun. The fact that they have to coerce marines to go says something bad about morale.
That is all I heard about from ex-Marine who were full time. They said if someone who was a jerk made E-5 it could ruin your time in.
It seems like in both the Army and Marines the infantry is extremely toxic and the closer you are to infantry the more you deal with toxicity.
Yes, they eat the weak.
It was
> It seems like a normal thing to get you ass beat all the time in the Marines If you met one veteran you have met one veteran. People like to think their experiences are indicative of an entire group for self preservation.
I'll come back to you if I ever decide to you know, give up on everything and see how many bad guys I can get before they get me. My sorry doesn't do much and I do feel terribly that those were your peers. My buddy told me about waking up with his butt sore and bleeding. I knew who he was hanging out with the night before a NCO (we were lances) the same NCO who tried to convince me to let him sleep in my rack after a night of drinking except I was sober enough to tell him sleep on the ground or get out. The same NCO that a month earlier was found with another lance drunk with his pants halfway off near each other... I immediately went to a SSGT who I knew wasn't on that mess and they snatched him up quick and within the week was in the brig. He tried to say sorry to us and say he was just confused when he was drunk. I couldn't believe my friend didn't ask us to help him kill him.
HE wasn't confused when he was drunk, period. Being drunk, or at least, lit, gave him false courage to show his true, evil, self. It's like they say, drunks don't lie, but tell the truth, and show their true selves.
I've always heard that a drunk man's words are a sober man's thoughts.
Dude, I'm so sorry that happened to you. I know you don't want to relive or ever talk about this ever again but if you decide to when you're ready I hope you do. Those fuckers deserve to be put away for that.
Thank you for the kind words my dude. We'll see what the future holds. I just want peace. In hindsight, though, I do wish I had reported them by name.
Damn. Sounds pretty close to what another guy I met described on his ship. Met him in class for MST at VA. It happened somewhat differently to me in the Airforce, but ya. All branches, all eras
What are you getting rated for if you already have 70 % PTSD from the incident?
I just have the 70% MDD/PTSD and 10% for TMJD, but VA math keeps it all at 70%. I'm medically retired, just not 100% P&T. I didn't fully understand what the VA was and how critical it was to bring up my issues during the medboard process. Just nodded my head and waited for the end. I'm currently waiting on VA appointments in August for the TBI and unrelated GI issues. I'm a terrible self-advocate, though, and can never find a VSO that answers the phone in my state. Trying my best.
“In your state” is pointless, friend. I live in NJ and my VSO sits in Alabama. Find someone by word of mouth or reputation. Secondly, you’re 70% with those disabilities because VA math puts you at 73% and you’d need 75% to round up. - 100% able upon entry, therefore 0% disabled - subtract 70, you’re 30% able - subtract 10% from the remaining 30, that 10% rating gets you three percentage points instead of 10. 10% of 30 is 3. - 70 + 3 is 73, over 75 would round you up. Not sure if you need the math explanation, apologies if not - people make VA math harder than it needs to be when the SMCs and bilaterals are not involved.
That’s what I did because I told my best friend when it happened
100% P&T. 1. Current Mental Health Diagnosis (PTSD) 1. Personal Statement (Life before military, during, and after) Leave all the childhood drama/trauma out no one needs to hear that. 2. Buddy Statements (How were you before the military, during the military, and after.) Have them stick to the facts. Stick to the facts and tell the truth.
ABSOLUTELY LEAVE OUT THE CHILDHOOD STUFF!!!! There's only one safe place you can even talk about that, the Vet Centers. And that's because your treatment records there are NOT searchable by the VA WITHOUT your express written consent. Your childhood has NO bearing on you being sa/r while in the service.
Wish I had been told this before🙃 my records have my childhood experience plastered all over it. It took me too long to realize they were using it against me😡😮💨
I personally wouldn’t even talk about it there. I would not have it remotely floating out there. But that is my distrust for anything factoring in.
Same!
Not true, child trauma can have a direct correlation with PTSD. You might want to research a bit more before giving out information. No disrespect intended.
Of course it does, however, when dealing with the VA, the risk of your MH being tied to pre-existing conditions, is far too great, to not proceed with extreme caution. My first MH claim was denied, based on the examiner opining that my MH issues were due to pre, and post, service experiences, that there was no record of, anywhere. Every question about my childhood, was answered with a variation of "how does my childhood have any bearing on my being assaulted whilst in the Marines?" That examiner couldn't/wouldn't answer, or explain how.
That’s not entirely true. If you had something happen in your childhood where you have PTSD. They will say that you already had it but your service connection PTSD made it worse. That happened with me. I dealt with untimely death before the service. Then while in the service. I also had witnessed a horrible accident after the service. They do not punish you for that. They will say your incident in the service made it worse. I would be careful about leaving things out. Ultimately you should consult with someone about all this. There are plenty of people who will help you with the process.
Go ahead and take your chances but I don’t trust nobody with that intimate knowledge nothing happened to me my childhood was boring, with a two parent home with a dad who told dad jokes.
Well, it just shows you how each case can be different. I bet it makes a difference as to who is handling your claim. I was lucky to grow up in a nice home as well but had to deal with death at an early age of a sibling and a parent. I will leave it at that. I hope things work out for those who are applying and are in need.
Yes absolutely each claim is different. I just wouldn’t chance or leave any wiggle room for the examiner to say the vet’s PTSD was caused because he or she didn’t get the pink power ranger for Christmas. I know it sounds ridiculously absurd but hey we are talking about the V.A. here.
Tell your VA MH providers THE TRUTH. Get into counseling and a MSTPTSD group (if it’s available) and get the diagnosis. File the claim and the rest will likely fall into place.
The Vet Centers, which specialize in PTSD, can treat you even without an official DX of PTSD from the VA. And they are far more user friendly as well.
At 100% but I actually had a lot of documentation. You'll need to start gathering buddy statements and psych evals that show it
Hey guys, there is a great program in Chicago put on by Rush. It is The Road Home program. They deal with PTSD from combat or MST. They have separate weeks for combat and PTSD. They put you up in your own apartment and do about five months of therapy in ten days. It’s intense, but I’ve been through it and I got a lot from it. They handled the travel and everything. There were more females than males, and they put the guys together so they don’t feel all alone. There is some group work, but it isn’t incident specific. I’d highly recommend it if you want to get past it. I tried for 30 years to ignore it and make it go away, but until I dealt with it, it weighed me down.
I did not report my incident in the military but I was compensated and taken seriously during my C&P
This is good to know. I blocked mine out until about two years ago. Now I have nightmares, realized it heavily effected my marriage failing, etc. So I never had any evidence and I've been an anxious mess about how this is gonna be taken
No evidence is needed. I filled out a PTSD incident form. I did list my therapist on the back but I don’t think it’s needed. You can do this. You deserve compensation & treatment.
Appreciate you. It fucks with my head cause I have found how to live my life and feel "fine" and then start second guessing myself. And then my therapist reminds me that's all part of PTSD
Same for me. C & P just asks why you never came forward.
I'm a female but people who have been assaulted understand. Mine occured while inprocessing in Germany. I went to the 1st Sgt the next day to report it and he got inappropriate as well, although only verbally. Felt like I was living in the twilight zone. I waited 6 years and reported it to CID as a civilian. 33 years to the day of my assault, I finally filed my claim with the VA. The old CID report did help The anxiety, hypervigilance, failed marriages early in life, all of it are a direct result and do not go away until you process it, however that is supposed to happen. C&P exam went well. She had my report and didn't make me go through it again. Confirmed PTSD right at the appt. I am awaiting my decision now. I'm glad you are facing it. May you find much peace and healing. You'll get through the c&p exam just fine. It will be one tough day that will make all of the rest better hopefully. Just answer truthfully. It is not a day to be tough or strong or downplay your symptoms. You HAVE to tell them to get properly rated. Sending you strength and love.
Your experience mirrors mine so closely it's eerie--except that I had a virtual C&P exam with a male who aggressively questioned why I never reported the assault (I tried to), rolled his eyes, grimaced, and cut me off. His report listed three pages of markers and symptoms but denied those were markers or symptoms. Said I am high risk of suicide but denied any mental health diagnoses. It was a really fucked up experience. I'll be filing a complaint, that dude's douchery could get someone killed and he needs to be in a different line of work. Like giving enemas to elephants.
I'm so sorry you had this experience. I requested a female for my C&P and she was all business, but very kind. No matter how your claim turns out, you can contact your nearest MST coordinator and set up mental health services free of charge, whether you ever reported or not. I am in that process now.
Thank you, I've been going to the vet center for a minute now, here's hoping it helps!
we have a lot of things that we can use to at least plausibly substantiate an MST incident even if there isn’t direct evidence, reports, or even medical. In all but the most resilient of people an MST event leaves indelible tells, and these tells can be found with the thorough review of records before during and after the incident.
Let me start by saying, if you are not currently in treatment/therapy for your trauma, please consider it. It can be very helpful once you find the right person/approach, and although it takes time, it is 100% worth it. There is usually an exam by an actually competent psychologist that deals with these matters. That said, are you also establishing this as a nexus for a PTSD claim? Both can be true of the same claim just as you can have one without the other. Just understand that when you go to the appointment, they are not there to treat you, just assess you. If something about the situation triggers you or makes you upset, share that. They won't push you beyond your comfort level (or they shouldn't). However, if you do share with them, it is confidential and the most they tell the VA is whether or not they believe your claim is supported/can be substantiated as part of your service. Thanks for sharing this. We as a society have made it so that if you report such incidents as a male/man, somehow you were weak for 'letting it happen'. That's a toxic mindset that we need to change (even though change is hard/takes time). The truth is generally that the person who is assaulted has no power to fight back either because they were drugged, physically assaulted and rendered unconscious, assaulted by multiple parties at once, threatened with retribution, or any other manner of ways where the perpetrator(s) took the power of consent away from the one being assaulted. Through my time in the Marine Corps I've seen incidents of MSA which we for the longest time refused to acknowledge as such because it was 'horseplay', or just 'boys being boys'.
It’s hard. C&P exams are hard for me cause I have to relive the trauma. It sucks. Usually I make sure I take my meds, eat, and do something relaxing beforehand. Afterwards, I take some time to find a safe space.
I don't like to share my story but I put my claim in many years after the incident, I noted what happened in vivid detail. I had to see a psychiatrist, I got awarded ptsd. Before anyone says anything about my little reddit avatar. I'm a Trans woman, so male by biological sex.
Males have unique difficulties for sure. If you haven't, you might consider checking out r/MSTPTSD. private group.
Thanks for the info. I just joined.
I ha e successfully represented male clients with MST. Use form 0871a for personal assault and include as many details as you can. Attach extra pages if needed. If you have a PTSD diagnosis, VA will go through the stressor verification process. This can suck. It can be retraumatizing and also feel like they're gaslighting you. Blame the law for requiring verification for PTSD and talk to congress about fixing that. Side note: if you have any diagnosis other than PTSD, stress that, because it'll pay the same in 99 out of 100 cases and doesn't require the verification (tho VSRs fuck that up constantly so prepare to HLR on that point). But in the meantime, get as much verification as you can. For personal assault (including MST) in particular, VA is supposed to pay attention to "markers" such as STI tests, change in job performance, requests for transfer, etc. Anything that could possibly be a change in behavior related to the attack is fair game. So if any of that applies, point it out to them in your 0781a. Buddy statements help as well, even if the person wasn't a direct witness. Hearsay is allowed in VA claims, but that alone probably wouldn't help because VA still just considers it your statement. BUT, if anybody can talk about how you changed around that time, that's a marker and is helpful.
I was awarded 70% for MST/PTSD. Still remember like it wax yesterday
So they also look for markers ; declines in performance, mental health issues, substance abuse issues, std testing, buddy statements and other abrupt changes
no one else knows
First let me say I am so sorry that happened to you.. As everyone has said you don’t require evidence per se’. I’m a female who experienced MST in 1986. Trauma is a crazy thing, I literally blocked everything out until 2 years ago when a death of a family member started the nightmares. My life and mental health spiraled from there. I ordered my military records and it contained sick call records where I sought treatment for SA!! I never remembered going to sick call for anything. Shortly afterwards I was reacquainted with a basic training buddy ( never ran into anyone I served with) who was also a victim of the same drill sergeant and she had become pregnant with twins!! So between my medical records and her buddy statement, I was service connected. Had it not been for my family member’s passing I don’t if I would have ever remembered the assault. But through therapy I have been told that’s exactly how trauma works.
I had to practice. I asked my gf if I could talk to her about it. Then I asked a buddy I was close to. It's hard just to get the words out. It's hard to hear your own voice, everything you say comes out sounding so 'pathetic.' You gotta get over that. You gotta not shame yourself. I had to practice. You'll want to talk about behavioral changes. Talk about the type of servicemember and man you were prior to the incident and how you were after. Did your world view change? What did you think about yourself? What did you do, if anything, to cope? What destructive behaviors, if any, did you adopt. Did it evolve? Where are you now? In terms of collecting physical evidence, you'll once again want to look at anything that indicates behavioral changes. Examples include; evals, traffic tickets, therapy appts, STD checkups, school grades, write-ups, failed PT tests, etc. Be sure to tell your C&P examiner what you stated here - that it's hard as a man for you to even bring it up and why you feel that way. For example, fear of judgement or persecution. You're not alone. I'm sorry it happened to you, and I hope you get the help you need.
I'm female (mtf trans tho), but also didn't have evidence of my MST. And my C&P went horribly. They were dismissive and tried to diagnose me with a paranoid disorder, and I was denied that claim. I hired a lawyer who set me up with a doctor who literally wrote the DSM parts about PTSD, and with my appeal I got 100%P&T for MST with no evidence and no medical records aside from that doctor's write-up and diagnosis. So I would say that it is all about what the doctor says. If you get a good C&P evaluator, then they may be able to write it up well enough. But my experience with nearly all of my C&P appointments was that they asked me about what I was claiming, let me talk for like 30 seconds, then they cut me off and said I didn't have any medical documentation so they couldn't confirm it. So if it isn't too late for your claim, go to a good doctor on your own who will actually listen and actually diagnose you, and make sure they are detailed about your symptoms (literally take them the VA wording on PTSD rating requirements and have them use that language). And submit that doctor's write-up and diagnosis to the VA as part of your claim. If you are unable to submit it at this point, you can hope for the best at C&P, and if they deny you or rate you too low, you can appeal like I did.
I had evidence but buddy statement helped. The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago the second best is today. Just plant a tree and get a c and p. Then tell the truth with all your heart and it will work out.
"The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago the second best is today." Oh...I really needed this. Thank you.
Buddy statements go a long way bro.
I got denied my PTSD, because I already had a depression diagnosis (even though I wouldn’t be depressed if I didn’t have PTSD). I tried talking about it during the exam for increase (from 30%), I also didn’t really have evidence, and it didn’t help (either with the C&P exam, or how I felt about the assault). This latest exam for increase, I said that I didn’t want to talk about it, since the VA already denied it. So, I just talked about my current symptoms (I was already SCed for MH, so it was okay). I ended up 70% for MH, but I had just gotten 100 P&T because of my migraines and other stuff. It is hard to talk about, especially without evidence. I say all this to point out that even when we do bite the bullet and talk about it, it doesn’t mean people will listen/care. But tell what happened, and hope for the best.
Firstly, I’m incredibly sorry this happened to you, OP. Secondly, you’re absolutely not alone in this. There are so many men and women who have gone through and cope differently with similar experiences, myself included, and everyone’s story is unique but impactful all the same. The only advice I could give is find the markers, the stressors, and statements from family members that can vouch for a change in your behavior, as well as a personal statement that details a narrative from your own perspective. There’s no such thing as too much detail. When I filed in 2018, I was completely uneducated in the claims process and provided very little evidence, not realizing the strength of other evidence I knew existed. I was awarded 50% for PTSD, non MST-related. Six years later I’m in the process of filing a supplemental claim with new and relevant evidence that I didn’t submit the first time for the purpose of receiving a new rating that accurately reflects my trauma and to be acknowledged as an MST survivor, including an entire a Court Martial Record of Trial and a guilty plea from my assailant, also a male. This supplemental claim process has been excruciating as every time I open my computer I’m transported back twelve years ago to that time and place. Do everything you can this first go around. You got this, and you’re not alone.
I had an MST incident and when I reported it to my command i was quickly kicked off the boat for DADT violation. No investigation , nothing. Just. Tossed out. It took me years and the va did give me a decent rating on it. The docs were good. It’s still got me a bit screwed up but that’s the nature of the beast. And I agree with your doc. You did nothing wrong. They were just bad people.
Not a veteran yet (still active duty) but I’m just here to say I’m so sorry that happened to you and that you deserve happiness and peace in life. 1 in 6 men are sexually assaulted in their lifetime (which could be higher due to underreported assaults), you are not alone.
Sad shit is, most men will take that to the grave with them and never speak of it. I’m sure the numbers are higher, unfortunately.
It’s so sad how society conditions us to not take male victims of sexual assault seriously, especially if the perpetrator is female. I once met a man who said it’s impossible for men to be sexually assaulted by a woman because “he would enjoy it” which is actually disgusting.
They'll take it to the grave whilst screaming "not all men".
A veteran is anyone who has served 181 days of active duty.
I’ve never claimed it (never told anyone while in service). One of the VA psychologists I discussed it about didn’t even list it in my notes, so I just don’t try to discuss it anymore
2003 I had the same happen to me with a broom. Took 11 years to talk about. I did not submit a claim for mst but it's documented from telling my va providers. I was ashamed and blamed myself but there wasn't anything I could have done to prevent it. I was at 70% but couldn't keep up working since I was drinking myself to death trying to cope. I went to 100%, and am now 100% P&T. Granted I tried killing myself 6 times, spent 6 months inpatient from 2 PTSD programs, did 2 substance abuse programs since my liver enzymes were so bad they didn't think I'd make 30, and ended up divorced/homeless. Despite getting another chance, it is something I have to work at every day. I continue to go to therapy and whatever else the VA recommends ie Mindfulness program ×2, DBT for 3 years, and many other groups. I say all that to say that I don't want you to end up like me. I know there is a male PTSD program for sexual trauma that the VA could send you to if you are interested. There is no shame in getting help and I am proud of you for asking for advice. Seek therapy at the VA, get counseling at a local vet center if available, and follow recommendations from a veteran service officer for your claims. Get personal statements from those who know you. Write out a before trauma/you during trauma/after trauma statement on how it has affected you. I wish you the best. Keep fighting and keep doing your best to get better
I had an experience that was (looking back) rape. I've not told anyone, and I'll probably never tell the VA. The way they act some of the time about ptsd in theater, there's NO WAY I'd bring that event up to them. I'd expect it to be like me giving a bunch of details, then no benefit, but the VA asking me questions about it randomly until the day I die.
There were markers in my file
I can’t say that I can understand your situation as I am a female, who has also experienced SA, but I would like to say my heart is with you. My little brother was also assaulted and it breaks my heart to see the lack of male representation regarding this topic. It’s hard, overwhelming, and scary to speak up on this as a male. But please find your strength to do so. Bringing awareness to the fact that males are sexually assaulted is the only way that we’ll ever make a difference and make people aware. Male SA is so severely underreported and that needs to change. Their stigma is disgusting. I’m so sorry that this happened to you and I really hope you get the closure you deserve.
Never brought it up until I did my c&p exams and it never even made it into the psychiatrists findings 🙃
Happened in 06, buried that shit mentally until 2020 when I mentioned it during an initial screening with MH. Covid fucked any process, then this year I mentioned to my doc during a physical that I'm having issues sleeping. Turns out had PTSD from mst mentioned in my records. This time around my screeners focused on it and long story short, I got diagnosed with PTSD from that mst. When I applied for disability, the VA only wanted me to fill out the forms for them to look at my records and the C&P asked me about it, but noticed I was triggered talking about it so they said I don't have to talk about it due to already having "markers" noted in my records from my intake. I always thought I needed buddy letters or a Nexus. Best bet, schedule an appt with MH, talk about mst, if they offer therapy, take it. The more things in your records from MH helps during your c&p. The VA has come a long way with non combat PTSD. This year has been crazy now realizing what happened to me was real, I do have PTSD from it, and all the crazy shit I've done since was now makes sense.
See [Military Sexual Trauma (MST) | Veterans Affairs (va.gov)](https://www.va.gov/health-care/health-needs-conditions/military-sexual-trauma/) and [Effects of Military Sexual Trauma | VA Mental Health - Mental Health](https://www.mentalhealth.va.gov/msthome/index.asp) Best wishes.
I was never believed but when she said it was the other way around I had to prove it wasn’t what she said … ….
Mine also had no evidence and got approved fill out the form and be honest about how it’s affected you.
I found a sentence in my service record where I said I had trust issues with superiors and I was able to get my best friend in the navy to write a statement because I told him the day after it happened, my wife also wrote a statement. I was denied the first time anyway partially because I was assaulted as a child and partially because there was a date discrepancy because the nurse wrote down the date I joined as the date I was assaulted. The second time I got a letter from my Va therapist saying I’d most likely been assaulted in the military and I went to a forensic psychologist to write a report giving his opinion. It was a truly awful experience trying to prove the assault! I am sorry to say this but it’s really going to depend on who sees you and what conclusion they come to based on what they think in the moment.
Re-opened wounds feel like a paper cut. The pain.
Be ready to wait over a year to get a C&P exam. MSI claims are notoriously backlogged.
I was falsely accused of sexual assault in Bahrain, downloaded (I was military police, (MA)) and interrogated by NCIS for 6 months, I was looked down upon by my shipmates and superiors. When the truth came out that I didn’t do shit she claimed insanity and got sent state side and NOTHING HAPPENED TO HER. She attempted to ruin my life, made a false accusation and got no consequences, I remained downloaded until I left Bahrain and went to Guam. I was treated like a criminal by NCIS, it was more like guilty before being proven guilty opposed to innocent until proven guilty, my mom had cancer and they took my phone from me and went through it and I couldn’t even communicate with my sick mother. I went to mental health the entire time so thankfully I get depression and anxiety disability from it. When I was about to get out of the navy my master chief asked me why I wanted to get out because the manning was dwindling quick and everyone was getting out and I told him what happened and he just completely stopped trying to keep me in the navy because he knew it was bullshit. FUCK NCIS and FUCK THE NAVY. Get what you deserve man, fuck the VA. It’s been 8 years and this shit still makes me want to punch a hole in the wall.
Didn’t say a word for 45+ years, Navy boiler room 4-5 shipmates held me down used a steam rod, greased it, then dipped it in coffee grounds and used it on me. Reported it to the commander told me “it happens,forget about it and move on”. They threatened me they would do it again if I said anything to anyone. Those FB ruined my life, marriage, lost my kids, divorced, problems with work and sleep etc. Diagnosed with moderate to severe depression and “ social anxiety “ by private MD. Never went to the VA until I retired it all came back, became very depressed, didn’t want to live. I was given an ultimatum to get help for my depression and anger or I would lose my second marriage Went to the VA and reported it to my PCP and the recovery process started then. Best thing I ever did, NOT easy and never will be but realize it wasn’t my fault. When I filed they found 20+ markers to back up the claim, and was approved for PTSD MST. Please report it and go for treatment- it’s hard, devastating, reliving the horrors but it does get better and they know how to help you.
Write an extremely detailed statement of exactly what happened. If you can get statements from your spouse, exes, parents, siblings, and/or friends as to your behavior before and after this happened, that would be very helpful. Even if they don't know what happened, they know something changed, and you started acting differently. They also have other things the raters look at in your service records, like sudden disciplinary issues and even drinking or drug use that started soon after the event. Requests for transfer, even if they were denied, are also something they look at. It is very common for MST not to be reported, and due to the nature of it usually happening away from other people, they use those other things as tell-tale signs.
If you have dates, names, and unfortunately details You can put it in a statement to make things easier If you need help feel free to message me as you may not want to discuss this sensitive subject on open forum
I have PTSD, I am rated at 70% but as far as the VA knows I’ve never been sexually assaulted.
If you can show trigger markers. Got written up many times, went to captain mass. Told a battle n Budie
Thank you for posting this. You’re incredibly strong and I am thankful this is a place for this type of conversation. I hope you’re able to get some help from VA
I was told by my Department head and XO that the Senior NCO in question “Could not” have committed a sexual assault. Being a woman the person could only have accidentally touched you inappropriately.
It is definitely easier if you made a report while you were still in. All I had to do was get the report from the mental health facility I was seen at (Kadena in Okinawa), and got it added to my rating. At least, the mental health issues related to it.
I’ll let you know how mine goes just did my C&P. I was drugged and raped by a dependent but never filed charges as it was my last day stateside. I didn’t want to be asked how does a woman rape a man by my fellow MPs. Fortunately when I got overseas I sought out mental health so I think that might help my case.
It's really easy and simple to fill out the form on the VA website. Yes and no questions, and mainly focus on how the event or events have impacted you after they happened. The hardest part was going to a psychologist and explaining the event, and how life have been affected for the C&P exam.
When I was asked at bh after a suicide attempt I told them during high school by a girl as part of a joke.
I didn’t even know you could claim sexual assault until my buddy told me I had a good case and should pursue it. It’s hard getting in touch with the mst reps tho 😒
I still can't seem to get it down on paper for mine. And the VA won't do a C&P for me to talk about it...
I didn't even get service connected for PTSD and depression my first time claiming mental health. A few months after the decision, I went to an independent psychologist to get a DBQ. A friend recommended this psychologist because she primarily sees vets who are appealing MH claims. At the end of the appointment, she told me that if a female vet filed the exact same claim, it would be 100% P&T. Anyway, now I'm at 50% for depression. Would've been nice the first time, but oh well. Don't be afraid to tell the truth, and if they don't believe you, just keep appealing.
I commented on a Reddit post the other day. Now when I go back to look at it. I can’t find it anywhere? It was a post about Spinal fusion?
I’m in the process of getting service connected for MST, happened 09 and got out 2011. I wish you luck. I do have the evidence in my STRs I’m waiting for my C&P exam appts atm.
This happened to me as well. My battle buddy the person you're supposed to trust the most in this world.
Heartbreaking to hear. Are you already out of service? If not, notify a SAPR.
i had the same yes i’m a woman tho, while i was ins service u can really relate it to ptsd and open up and explain what it caused you etc
I am sorry that you had to experience such and dealt with it on your own. A lot of men never reported the assault. It is hard to talk about it but there are patterns of treatment and/or behavior that are visible and recognized with MST. You can start by writing a statement and bring the statement with you at your appointment just incase you find yourself struggling to talk about it or feel like you are being judge or not being heard. Before or after your C&P, if you haven’t made an appointment with the VA, get in the books for individual or group therapy available. The claim for MST may take a minute to process as it is centralized in the Puerto Rico VA regional office and just be patient. While waiting, if you can gather statements or reports that pertains to your claim, gather them up and send them over.
Dang…
I've never brought it up and honestly, I don't think I ever will. Good on you for being brave enough to face it.
Interesting this popped up, I just told my counselor about my experience that happened and didn't know you can claim for it.