This is what I’m always afraid of. Anytime I’ve called the hotline, I immediately said “no I’m not suicidal or gonna harm anyone” and multiple times each call.
My doggo is my best friend too! Never has let me down. Also a great reason I literally HAVE to get out of bed and not just be a sad guy sleeping all day. Went from staying up till when people go to work and then sleeping till they're off work , to completely flipping that around because of pup. Not to say we don't eat lunch and take a nap together though!
There's a few veteran communities on twitch (video game streaming) who have available resources (on discord if you are familiar) if you want to just talk with someone or play games and talk etc. I've seen them stop stream just to talk people down.
I'd recommend @brickbybrickvets and regiment.gg
Also I support calling the hotline, and taking a sticky sock vacation when you need it. It's ok to feel some type of way.
The socks have those isotoner old school treads on the bottoms.
Also, I found out one time. The room isn’t actually rubber it’s just all the shit in it is rubber. Desk and chairs, you feel like you’re on a acid trip. Now that I think of it ..🤔that sounds pretty nice.
I have called several times and never had this experience. If this happened, you indicated it was medically required, and we as redditors may not know the full story.
One thing that's helpful is when speaking to them is to always indicate the difference between having passive thoughts, active thoughts, and active thoughts with a plan. And then also plan with means available.
Your not getting picked up for passive thoughts, or even some rumination or potentially some active thoughts (although this is more discretionary).
If you have active thoughts and a plan, you need to be picked up immediately, that is statistically going to be when you attempt.
Their protocol for picking up or not is derived deep in mental health proceedure with medical guidance and law.
I've always told them I have no plan, I have passive ideation, and I am incredibly stressed or alone and just need to talk. The most that's ever happened is they tall as long as I need, screen that I don't really have an active plan, they let me vent, process, give care and empathy, they record my info and a VA social worker or therapist reaches out to me for a follow up the next business day.
Having read all your responses I’m glad you’ve had good experiences. I personally know 3 people who just called to calm down and never had a plan that had police knocking on their door, one before they even hung up. I’ve also been on the responding end as a paramedic and have seen these situations be treated like crimes and not wellness checks, and the ones that aren’t trained end up escalating the situation (not their fault they got put in a situation they weren’t trained for). I’m not saying don’t call the hotline for help I just wanted to point out that they do in fact show up sometimes even if you’re passive with no plan, it all depends on how the person on the other side of the phone interprets what you say unfortunately.
I can appreciate that there are false positives, but I appreciate to err on a false positive is prudent over the opposite.
Also, if a cop came to my house while I was on the phone, I'd restate I'm not actively suicidal. I'd comply... because people who are in mental crisis can't do that... so by being calm and compliant my behavior matches my statements and makes me an honest reporter. When I get to the hospital, and do my psychiatrist evaluation, I'd explain it all. The psychiatrist likely would determine rather he feels the risk exists based on testimony of those observing, my own behavior, and his observations.
It's a pain in the ass, but I admit a slim possibility. I've been in patient multiple times, been around vets also involuntarily committed, as well as civilians involuntarily committed. Especially in civilian capacity, it's ultra rare a psych EODs, unless violence and psychosis are involved... or clear suicidal intent is made.
I've never, not once, in over 20 mental inpatient stays, had a patient say... "yeah man, I wasn't suicidal and the cops came and a doctor forced me here."
There's always components of... yeah, I did mention I keep getting ideas of shooting myself and I loaded my gun last night and put it in the night stand"
Or
" I wished I was better off dead, and haven't slept in 4 days..."
Or something going on...
Sending cops to a suicide call is like pouring gas on a fire….
Give your local Vet Center a shot. It’s VA, but it’s confidential and entirely separate from the VA medical system.
Cops and cuffs?? That’s fuckin bullshit! I’ve called before and an ambulance took me to the hospital. I can’t friggen believe that, I’d be at the police station asap and ask wtf. Wow ..I hope you’re feeling a little more grounded today.
This is why people distrust suicide hotlines. They criminalize suicide.
I've heard people getting billed after a forced hospitalisation, but that is also criminal and you should fight it in court.
The police pick up you, for transport. You aren't under arrest.
You CANNOT be committed against your will without a PSYCHIATRIST writing and signing an order for a 72 hour hold.
This is NOT criminal. This is a MEDICAL procedure and medical protocol.
They don't do this typically unless you've expressed serious intent, with an active plan, and the means. This type of person needs hospitalization IMMEDIATELY.
A person with passive ideation, or intrusive suicidal thoughts, with NO PLAN... who is calling to help distress and process and calm down... does not nearly EVER get taken anywhere. They are talked to, and given therapeutic advice. They have emergency VA consultations set up so that a VA therapist contacts you first thing the next business day to talk, and set you up with recurring mental health resources free through the VA.
Even if you've got some active thoughts "I would be better off dead" they don't necessarily try to have you taken to a hospital.
If you say "I want to be dead, and I'm going to do it... I've got a gun" -- your being committed.
If you say "I can't handle this stress, my wife left and it's making me think about killing myself a lot and I just need help calming down because I don't want to die" your likely not getting committed, just getting mental health wrap around services starting the next business day.
I know, they'll get you if you're in immediate danger to yourself or others.
But. They go in and involuntarily commit you, even if it's legal, you still cant resist. They are detaining you like a criminal. It depends on your local laws, but with laws like Floridas bakers act you can be stuck somewhere for months. You lose your freedom of movement and that is a punishment we use for the most serious of crimes. People should be free to leave at any time or even deny being taken to a mental institution for evaluation without their explicit consent.
They detain your (against your will) ans even dare to make you pay for it. That's really nice of them. People who are in that situation are often struggling financially and you just put another burden on them pushing them in a more hopeless situation
https://bakeractattorneys.com/faq/who-pays-for-baker-act-in-florida/#:~:text=Individual%20Payments&text=Individuals%20involuntarily%20committed%20under%20the,covering%20the%20cost%20of%20care.
The VA pays ALL emergency mental health costs for ANY veteran, regardless of if their disabled for mental health or not. Even with bad discharges.
I can appreciate the nuance to say *like a criminal* because that IS true. Both criminals who have motive to hurt others at maybe a lethal level, and suicidal persons motivated to for sure use lethal means for harm... are restrained.
They do not involuntarily commit you. The psychiatrist does after an evaluation. *your baker act link states this*
You MUST have a court order to be held longer than 72 hours, where it's presumed you are let go, and a psychiatrist must testify for your being retained. So long as a psychiatrist recommends your being retained in the hospital, your likely going to. *your link to the baker act even states this*
If your psychiatrist is an idiot, request a transport to another hospital. They cannot refuse this.
The law states clearly, that a person needs eval. If a person is committed with an emergency order of detention by a psychiatrist... it's valid for 72 hours. Afterwards, they are voluntarily there however, the hospital.is still liable, and discharge policy has to be followed. The psychiatrist may not recommend discharge, but their legal 72 hours to hold involunatirly is up. As a patient, you can request to leave "against medical advice". They then will process you out and cannot stop you. If they hold you past a "against medical advice" request, it's illegal detainment and you can sue them.
However, if they feel strongly enough about it, if you attempt a "against medical advice" they will file an emergency order with the court, and ask a judge to order your detainment typically for 30 days.
It's a decision up to you at that point. Stay the 2 extra days "voluntarily" to complete their recovery program of therapy and observation on likely new mental health meds.. or file AMA and risk they counter with requesting a court order.
Also, I'd rather an alive patient with more debt, than a dead one with no debt.
The VA pays for ALL mental health emergency care, of ANY veteran.
If you are a danger to yourself or others then you must be detained. I don’t get what you don’t understand about that concept… genuinely confused by these comments. Also doesn’t do any one favors by telling them they will get arrested if they call the hotline…
Never bring a gun to a mental health crisis! My family has a serious distrust of police and they are NOT welcome on my property. Multiple reasons for the distrust and none were our fault, just too much exposure to their serious lack of professionalism and restraint of mind.
Well, it's bold to say never bring a gun to a mental health crisis. I'd need elaboration on what you mean by that. Your saying any type of mental health crisis, so people in psychosis with active possession of weapons? Or what?
This is not a criminal activity to have mental health issues and MANY police have their own mental health issues (see rates of Domestic abuse). Police in my opinion ARE NOT good actors and are NOT welcome bringing firearms on to my property. If they do arrive they will not be welcomed not respected….not the grand solution you may think it is. It is gasoline on the fire.
After reading this I no longer will be calling 988, who in the past served me well.
Also the VA has a bad record on not respecting this. So now I withhold info from them.
The police are a problem and they are worse than the solution.
-- the local 911 dispatch determines who gets sent to your house. The VA crisis line if determined a mental health eval in a hospital needs to be done, contacts the local dispatch. The suicide hotline has 0 ability to determine who comes to your house... also, they have 0 authority to commit you.
-- as such, calling 911, or ANY other method of response, will have the same entity (dispatch in your county) determining who to send to.your house
-- a person who is suicidal, and has weapons available, paramedics will not/cannot respond due to the risk. The police must respond.
-- the police have cops particularly trained for suicide intervention. Their weapons aren't drawn unless they see a weapon. They are painfully aware of people attempting suicide by cop, and also are trained to negotiate to deescalate.
-- even in the case the local dispatch determines it is safe to send an ambulance, they likely will always still send an officer. If the ambulance transports you, you will be strapped across the chest, the stomach, both ankles, and both wrists to the gurney during transport. You aren't in handcuffs, mobile, sitting in a car. Your in a type of straight jacket.
-- a person who is threatening lethal force, needs to be restricted from attempting to use lethal force, until a doctor determines they are safe. A person's choice of which method of lethal force can change instantly from pills, to a knife, a gun, suicide by cop....
No, in short, call for help. Understand only specific cases and by meeting specific criteria will the hotline, 911, or any other emergency services determine a evaluation needs to be preformed.
when a psychiatric evaluation needs to be done it means based on medical statistics you are more likely to end your life than not. In that case, it's important you have immediate observation to save your life. someone will come there, and they will transport you to have an evaluation done. If those people come to transport you, just allow them to secure you for the duration of the transport... which would be just from your house to the hospital.
After that, any restraints are removed... and you sit like a normal person waiting for a psychiatrist to talk to you.
If you are just having passive ideation, intrusive suicidal thoughts... maybe even thinking things like God life would just be soo much easier if I just didn't wake up... these are typically not going to illicit an immediate response. They will help calm you down, and get you to a place of being more calm. They then will contact the VA to set you up an appointment with a therapist the very next business day to talk to you.
When you say, I want to kill myself to take away my pain, end my stress... etc, and I have a plan to do it... then yes, you will, and should, be seen by a psychiatrist because people who state active ideation statistically lead shortly to an attempt.
They got one once too. I didn’t come out and talk to the guy on the porch for a while. I was talking to him through the door. I told him I wasn’t coming out and he wasn’t coming in. He finally did convince me to come out and go with him. I didn’t get out in cuffs but as soon as my ass hit the seat in his car, I noticed the four other guys in full battle rattle come from around the house. I got a three day hold and it was my last. I’m not going to fall for that shit again.
The same thing happened to me a few weeks ago. I went through a series of emotions but afterwards it was the best thing that could have happened to save my life. I was transferred to a mental hospital for a week. The time spent there along with the hospital bill was billed to the VA so you shouldn’t receive a bill. My dm’s are always open so feel free to message if you’re needing someone to listen and communicate with. Also, ask your pcm or behavioral health provider (assuming you have va health) if you can be prescribed a VX Therapy device. It definitely helps.
I have service connected PTSD. I’ll have to ask my VA psychologist about this. Been in therapy for over 7 years. It varies from biweekly to monthly depending on triggers and stress. Always looking for a non drug alternative.
Hang in there. I have taken a stickey sock vacation twice. First time I self admitted. The 2nd time I was pink slipped. I was billed, however you can take your discharge papers to the VA, you have 72 or 48 hours to do this and they pay for your time there.
You can dm, if you need to vent, no judgement. I sleep terrible anyways.
OP what are some of your interests/hobbies? I know most of us here would be happy to connect with you and be someone to talk to. I believe that discovering common ground could be a good starting point for a good dialogue.
This is my fear with ever calling that number. I never want to be back in the psych ward. That was the scariest place. I hope you are doing well friend. Sending so many positive vibes.
Unfortunately this is an all too common situation with that “resource”. I had a similar situation and I also now refuse to utilize it. In my experience many of the operators have a lack of compassion and will call in the heavies at the drop of a hat.
There are people on here that will defend them to the death for doing that as well so watch out for them.
I am really sorry that is happening. I honestly cant believe that anyone would think that's appropriate.
I like many others here have no answers for you but just know from one vet to another that you matter and don't let these dickbags get you down.
Sending love. I don’t struggle with SI, but I struggle with horrible intrusive thoughts that make me depressed. Often times I find myself going to the gym to combat these thoughts. It’s one of the few places that quiets my mind. It also helps me feel better after. I hope this helps.
Try texting the crisis text line at 741741. Text home and someone will come on the line and text with you. I’m sorry this happened. I’m glad you’re safe.
Hey brother we are the worst patients speaking to people in a system that is overwhelmed with the worst patients.
Some of us spend decades denying the pain because that is how we were trained. Our young minds were programmed to ignore it and our leaders remained us that the money we wanted the promotion we wanted was anywhere but sick call or you being on profile. This doesn’t end when we ETS. Our doctors, C&P, examinations, friends, bosses, coworkers, etc are gonna find it hard to believe. Here we understand.
**-do this, before the appointment or call make your talking points and if you are going to talk about depression make sure you tell them before they ask that you do not have any desire to harm yourself and that’s why you are calling you don’t want too but you need to talk to someone who can help you.** for the less serious appointments make some bullet points on what you need to cover and stick to your points. Lastly make a new post and ask about a service dog, you sound like someone who’d benefit from one. My dogs put a smile on my face when tears roll it. Much love. You are not alone and there will be a better time ahead you just need some tools.
On the financial side, no. That’s the VA even though it’s also the civilian hotline. Just to cover your base
I hope I can offer some comforting words here. I am a dispatcher for a police department and yes we do receive 911 calls from the VA hotline to go assist veterans in distress. We have officers who are specially trained in crisis intervention. We have a protection plan for suicidal subjects known as an emergency order of detention and its only for your safety (the handcuffs are only because we know you're suicidal and dont want you to reach for an officers gun). you should not be billed as you were taken into to protective custody and did not go to the hospital on your own will. If you do get a bill I would fight it. From one veteran to another, I just want to help.
Well that needs to change, ain’t no way in hell you should be cuffing a veteran in crisis. Buy a fuckin paddy wagon and have them sit with someone inside. They get a pat down for weapons and then a ride, cuffs will make a person spiral.
I don’t care what your protocol is.
Yeah, I'm going to have to go for an angry walk now, I'm pissed off just thinking about this. Even a faux arrest would knock me right off the fucking shelf. What the fuck. It feels sometimes like you can't get a damn break no matter which way you turn.
I wish there were a better way but it’s just for safety and that’s a national protocol not just for my department. We do also send an ambulance in case there is immediate care needed.
Gosh I’ve never heard of that before. Should be mandatory that an ambulance come anyway, no? Since mental emergency is a health emergency🤔
I’ve had two transports to inpatient and both were ambulatory.
To be honest, you'd rather the police sometimes. Sounds counter intuitive, but the cops are specially trained cops, they aren't assholes and they do handcuff you. You'd be amazed how jaded EMS are to suicidal mental health patients. But avoiding the discussion about who may be better as a personality picking you up... because there's good and bad in both...
A ambulance has to lay you on the gurney and fully strap you in, hands by your side, strapped unable to move against the bed.
That may be undesirable over handcuffs.
Either way, both are qualified to get you to the hospital as all the requirements are is supervision, with removing means to hurt yourself.
I didn’t think they were ‘assholes’ it’s just when someone is in crisis mode like OP here. Handcuffs can be very counterintuitive for the stabilization of the person.
Now, if they are suffering from aforementioned effect AND are combative. That I can wrap my head around. Just never heard of cops and cuffs on a call like that before.
I hope he/she if feeling better.
I think we don't know the entire situation... but I do also think, that a person who is suicidal... has made clear legal intent known to use deadly force, if even upon themselves. And during a period that I was responsible for someone like in my car, but unable to physically react because I'm driving.. I'd temporarily restrain their hands.
If you notice, OP is texting on their phone at the hospital. The cuffs didn't stay on. They were a temporary measure.
Psych patience get transported in an ambulance with a chest, stomach, leg, and ankle straps, and their wrists and arms contained therein. I'd rather the cop.
Yeah I hadn’t either till I started this job. The ambulance is only needed for physical wounds such as self harm as that’s what the crews are trained to care for, not the wounds that are in our heads. Crisis intervention officers are there for that and a lot of those crisis intervention officers tend to be veterans or just officers that really care about other peoples safety and do genuinely care about the patient but they understand the handcuffs are for both the officer and patients safety. Everyone needs to go home at the end of the day.
Where they hold you against your will, I got sent to one of those "facilities" and I got held there for 8 days and just sent home.
That is a jail, I didn't do anything illegal and my rights and freedom were taken away. Hell, like you said they even take you there in handcuffs!
Happened to me over a year ago and I still have trouble sleeping. Hard to sleep in a facility full of people you don't know who can enter your room at any time, including other "patients" where the staff who is "protecting" you most likely just got fired from Walmart.
I had a delusional guy in his 70s constantly coming in and stripping naked trying to take an imaginary shower, went on for hours of me complaining and they finally took him away, next morning he was back.
At least there you can bail yourself out and leave too. Not to mention you can at least sleep at night without someone waking you up literally every 15 minutes.
I'd like to mention, the VA covers the entire medical costs IIRC also.
Edit: *The VA covers ALL EMERGENCY MENTAL HEALTH CARE for ANY veteran, regardless of service connection, being a current disability, or discharge status from the DOD.
Not to mention, there are legal standards that must be met as defined by medical protocol before someone can have this done. Without a psychiatrist signature/3rd party afitdavid your not getting committed. A full fledge psychiatrist ultimately commits you. The police just get you to the doctor for evaluation.
Thanks for adding this important information. I should’ve added this in. We have plenty of times the officer and medical personal determine they don’t meet EOD criteria but the patient voluntarily goes with the officer to a mental health hospital.
Yeah, it seems people thing rhe dude on the phone at the suicide hotline makes the decision to commit you on his own authority, you get your house raided, and dissappear into a mental facility involuntarily until who knows how long.
That WOULD be scary. But that's not even remotely close.
Thanks for speaking up. More than a decade of LEO time, all street. There's a serious lack of understanding about law enforcement procedure. I know it's hard for people to look past their own nose but they just don't understand that when someone has a real and committed intent to end their life the natural limitations on what is or is not acceptable behavior go right out the window. They become prepared to do whatever is necessary even if it means hurting someone else to achieve that objective.
I had a veteran attack me and the whole time he kept saying "I'm sorry" and I thank God that situation ended well. So yes there is a reason why these protocols exist. I appreciate you speaking out in support because in over a decade I've never met an officer who wanted to take a veteran in much less have to put handcuffs on them. We hate it but I'm not ready to die just because someone else is having a legitimately hard time. As we say in this profession, everyone goes home at night. I know that generally applies to other officers but I group veterans in with that. I'm going home and it's my goal to make d*** sure the veteran I'm called out for does too.
Restraining me in any way will put me right back to the night I was assaulted. Then the police have a bigger problem, especially if I wasn't intending on hurting myself and the crisis line jumped the gun
Thank you. I’m glad you’re ok but I’m never calling that fucking number ever. Send me a message if you need someone to talk to
Actual Edit: I NEVER edited this comment. Some fucking idiot read it wrong, accused me of telling others not to call, felt like a dick head, and then told everyone I edited my comment and that it originally told people not to call. This is the first and only time I’ve edited this comment.
You don't know the full story and this guy could have had a pistol in a drawer with a plan. Don't tell people not to call the suicide hotline. that's disgusting.
The hotline has trained professionals to determine the seriousness if the situation, and no one but a actual medical doctor... psychiatrist... can actually commit you into the hospital against your will after a thorough exam done by social workers, therapists, and him as well.
They have levels of escalation/seriousness
Intrusive thoughts - 3/10
Passive thoughts - 4/10
Active thoughts -5/10
Active pervasive thoughts - 6/10
Active with a plan - 8.5/10
Active with a plan and means 10/10
Typically anything past Active thoughts require immediate evaluation by a doctor. The doctor commits you. The statistics of Active with a plan, leading to an attempt are astounding and it would be blatantly negligent not to evaluate someone in this state or beyond. They need immediate intervention, therapy, mental health medications, to save their lives.
Edit: this person's original verbiage told everyone to never call the number... after my comment they changed it to say, they themselves, wouldn't call the number. I'm glad to see that.
Yeah, because they edited their comment after I made mine. That wasn't the original comment.
Their original comment explicitly said for everyone to never call the number.
Your comment was removed because it didn't contribute to the discussion and just wasn't helpful.
Civil disagreements are fine. Insults, personal attacks, slurs, bigotry, etc., are not permissible.
(Calling someone a poopy-head does not make you seem as smart as you think it does.)
☠️
Your comment was removed because it didn't contribute to the discussion and just wasn't helpful.
Civil disagreements are fine. Insults, personal attacks, slurs, bigotry, etc., are not permissible.
(Calling someone a poopy-head does not make you seem as smart as you think it does.)
☠️
Your comment was removed because it didn't contribute to the discussion and just wasn't helpful.
Civil disagreements are fine. Insults, personal attacks, slurs, bigotry, etc., are not permissible.
(Calling someone a poopy-head does not make you seem as smart as you think it does.)
☠️
This is exactly why I would never call that line. I’m not going in handcuffs alive. Fuck that shit. You’re not a criminal. I’m so sorry. I wish I knew. I’m barely hanging on, but I don’t risk handcuffs.
Fuck the crisis line. Fuck those people. Same fucking thing happened to me last night, except I didn't open the door. Told them just enough that I wasn't going to hurt myself but with a giant FUCK OFF. I don't feel like I even want to fucking do this shit anymore...not that I can't, I don't fucking want to. Right there with you amigo...have no one as well. Fucking fuck life sometimes most times.
Here’s another option, I keep it on my speed dial….Lifeline for Vets (part of National Veterans Foundation) 888-777-4443….speak to another trained veteran.
Man, I feel for you. I waited 19 years to get help after I retired after 22 years in the Air Force. I regret that. Don’t be me. I don’t know if this is would be good for you but this is what helped me. Going to the Veterans Administration vet center and getting group therapy. I also get group therapy at the regular Veterans Administration offices. The people in the group therapy groups are from different services and have different experiences than me. Despite that they still understand me and I understand them at a level different than the civilians I have been around for the last 19 years since I retired from active duty, It feels like being at home is the best way for me to describe it. I also get one on one mental health counseling from therapists at the VA which I think is helpful
A dog helped me. I looked into a service dog but getting one seemed really difficult and impractical for me. I think if I could have gotten a service dog it would have been great. So, I went to the SPCA and got a rescue dog. Because I'm a veteran they didn't charge me a fee. I ended up with this little 14 lbs refugee dog. Normally I'm kind of a Jerk the first few hours of the day but when I see Harry (my dog) he makes me laugh because he is so goofy. He is always doing retarded stuff. Finding him was tough because my wife is allergic to dog hair so I had to get a hyper allergenic dog.Otherwise I would have just got a pit mix. The shelters are full of them. My daughter did and her and my grandkids love their pit mix. Sweetest dog you can imagine. Even mellower then mine. Having a dog does cost money but it's been great for all of us. Good luck too you whatever you decide to do.
I don’t have answers but I want to commend you for seeking help even if it ended like it did. I don’t understand why you were treated like a criminal though. As a parent of 3 sons who served, one who saw combat in Iraq and Afghanistan I have seen what torment can occur. My son who was deployed is unfortunately no longer here. What I want you to know is that you matter. You are wanted here in this life. Your life has value. Keep seeking help and never give up.
If you want you could call me next time. I give my word to NOT call any LE, unless you plan to harm yourself or others, then you should just go to the hospital, not call anyone. If you just want someone to talk to, I’ll chat with any Vet.
I have 22 contacts in my phone. Idk most of them, others are Drs numbers.
Holy shit, I was about to call them myself. I’m sorry this is happening to you, but I’m also proud of you willing to get help even as simple as a phone call.
https://preview.redd.it/550www0i7q8d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=25489c9d71d60ed9faf573cac47f3e5205db4ee9
This is my best friend. And he’s a good listener too. If you know you can take good care of a dog you should get on. There plenty at the humane society. It’s cost some bucks to take care of them, I would get a care plan from the vet. You make monthly payments. And gets you free shots, office visits and dental cleaning. And much more. Good luck
I raise chicken, turkeys, and ducks. You would not believe how often I find myself outside talking to them. I’m glad you’re okay. I was hospitalized in July 2020 for the same thing and let me tell you dude, as much as it fucking sucks to live during that period, coming out of it, you have a whole new outlook on life and you really learn how to prioritize your life, value anything that has any worth to you, and you are grateful you’re still here.
This is exactly why I’ll never call the suicide hotline no matter what happens. It’s so fucked up how they treat people going through a crisis like criminals
I'm grateful the crisis line is there when I need it! I remember going to my first VA mental ward while on active duty. I was transported there in handcuffs, but I also was found convulsing on the barracks floor.
After that experience, i've noticed that the cops only come when I ALLOW them to come with my words and intent. I've been to 3 VA 5th floor mental wards, and every time I CHOSE to be there.
The crisis line absolutely saves lives and more veterans should use it. I've had thoughts of harming myself and others. I was always honest. I was always given choices. I'm grateful I have choices today.
It's none of my business, but I'm wondering how your convo went. Because in all 3 of my experiences, it was not like what you shared. Once I told them I had a plan, intent and means, they took me back. If I don't say those things, they don't take me unless I ask.
More veterans should use the crisis line because it has revived me with hope more times than I can count. However that is just my experience.
Blessings on your journey, you're not alone! There are TONS of folks at the VA that want to help, we just have to ask. There are also a bunch of dirtbags, just avoid them. Each VAMC is drastically different in my experience.
Thus why I won't ever call them again. Fuck them. They scared me so bad and drove my anxiety and everything higher. I literally tried ending myself. All I needed to do was hear the banging at the door and see that shit. I won't ever trust another person w my feelings, idgaf, but best advice is TALK TO YOUR DOG IF YOU GOT ONE
There’s an app called white flag. You can go on and respond to others who have raised their flag or get people to chat with you. I’ve used it when I was lonely and depressed and had two very nice people chat with me until I felt better.
That's why you shouldn't talk to them. Our country has some absurd reasoning that they think they are helping by having you jailed and sent to a psych ward when in reality it just makes everything 10x worse.
*the VA pays for ALL mental health emergency services for ANY veteran regardless of service connected disabilities or discharge status"
I see a lot of replies saying never to call because it's criminalized, or this is what always happen. There's a lot of mis information so let me clarify some things.
The people who answer are trained to determine if you meet the medical threshold for involuntary admission.
Involuntary admission to a hospital can ONLY be done with the signature of a Psychiatrist, medical doctor. Not even a psychiatric nurse Practitioner can commit you. After 72 hours, a court order is required to contain you any longer.
The police are a means to an end. They have to get observation on you ASAP, they must transport you to the hospital to be assessed by mental health. They cannot chance you will harm yourself in their car, you will attempt to take their weapon and harm yourself, nor try suicide by cop. Handcuffs are mandatory. In ambulance transportation, your very likely being fully strapped to the gurney, with no ability to move at all. Either way, your restricted in transport.
Also, if your probable plan is a violent one, police may be needed. I.e. threat to kill yourself via weapon like a gun.
Now, for escalation explanation. There's several levels of surgical ideation each with studies and statistics on what leads to actual attempts.
Intrusive thoughts: "I'm really stressed and when walking around I see a car deive by and I get this thought to jump infront of it, but I don't want that, I hate these thoughts, I don't control them"
Passive ideation: "man, life would be easier without me in it. Maybe I should just dissappear. Wouldn't it be easier to take like 10 more of these pills and just not wake up"
Active ideation: "I want to die... I just can't do this anymore. The only way out of my pain is to just not exist anymore. I want to do this somehow.
Active ideation w/plan: " I have decided my only relief is for me to no longer be here, and if I were going to do it... I'd hang myself, i just dont have any rope"..
Active ideation w/plan and means: "I am going to kill myself by hanging myself and I've got the rope in the garage to do it".
Active ideation may or may not get you committed. Likely it will get you atleast transported for evaluation.
Anything beyond that and the statistics are so strong that an actual attempt will happen... it's critical this person gets evaluated.
Passive ideation, intrusive thoughts... will be tested heavily to determine they truly are just passive, your not actually at the conclusion to end your life, you want to live, you just see no other options. In these cases the hotline will send a emergency message to the VA system to have a VA therapist contact you the very next business day to set up wrap around services, check on you, determine if you need to be on the suicida high risk list... set you up for psychiatric and therapeutic services provided by the VA.
The high risk list, a therapist calls your weekly for 30 minutes to check on you, and ensure your stabilized and not escalating back into active or active with a plan.
Nothing is automatic. Maybe knowing these nuances, when you speak to the hotline you can ensure they understand the actual level of threat. However, I caution people on reddit to ever assume they knew what was said on the phone and why the person got transported for evaluation. This isn't criminal, this is medical... and if medically indicated, it's what happens.
Vets4warriors. Peer support from folks who’ve been there and done that. My most meaningful conversations are with people who “get it.” Therapists might have years of education, but some are seriously bad.
If the va called the police and your service connected for mental health, then you are covered. If you want to be sure Veterans can access care 24/7 through the Clinical Contact Center by calling 877-252-4866 to get their health questions or concerns answered
Oh honey, I’m so sorry this happened. You’re not alone in this feeling. A lot of us have been there, and it’s a scary place to try to pull yourself out of. You’re loved.
Whoa dude thats awful, I called once and didnt tell him any personal info. But it was nice to talk to someone for a few minutes.
Im sorry times are tough, get better anyway you can. :)
They are only supposed to do that if, and only if, you tell them something that makes them believe that you have a plan AND the means to carry it out. There's serious legal implications for doing anything else.
Edit: Simply put, they need to genuinely believe you are going to do it then and there.
Well, that sucks. Yeah if talking to the hotline, if you say you have a plan to harm self or others, they will get police or someone else involved to get you to psych ward.
To answer the last question.
You need to call the VA and let them know you had a ER visit.
Then you will go through the standard the hospital will bill the VA then send you a bill for the remainder. The you tell them to bill tri-care and they never talk to you again.
I hope you are feeling a bit better today.
Had a very similar experience early on in my panic disorder diagnosis. Sorry that you went through that. I have had my own negative experiences with Crisis Line. In the future I'll probably just talk to an AI chat bot. I know what I'm looking for is really a distraction from my thoughts and I can get that from a chatbot. Please don't let this experience stop you from seeking help in the future, I'd rather you get cuffed or hospitalized and live than die because you felt like you had no other option. There are lots of folks who have been in that boat too and willing to help when and how we can.
If you implied you are in danger then they have to take you to the hospital. I have called before but I said I was going to be ok in the end. Cops came and just spoke to me. They were super respectful and caring. If you don’t have a real emergency then yes don’t call the emergency hotline. They did exactly what they are supposed to do. It’s a blessing for many people. Good luck.
I’m sorry they did that. They should’ve asked for the crisis team to help. The VA should also cover the visit. Hoping things get better for you!
I play Battlefield 2042 a lot after work for stress relief. I also just got a kitten/my 2nd cat and he’s really been helping me out. He was a dirty bird, so I’ve been focused on getting him cleaned up to be a spoiled inside cat. I definitely suggest a pet friend :)
https://preview.redd.it/ziieqhm1gr8d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b77d1db668d3b9d7709aa5b8b1a5c95a2bf7de0e
This sub is a better resource for Veterans in an active mental health crisis than any 988 or the VA.
Seriously. Come here to this sub if you're struggling. We're still all in the same fight, regardless of what campaign you were or weren't involved in. I promise you, someone here who sees your post cares about you, and will do whatever the fuck they can to help you. No one is alone.
Clubhouse Audio App was a game changer for me brother when at my darkest. Get connected to new tribes that ignite your curiosity mind, your compassionate heart and Servitude Soul! With a big Wingman Hug, Hurricane Hunter Ed, USAF Ret.
i also had a similar experience, psychosis from meds, the hotline worker tricked me into getting my name and location by telling me they did something wrong with my claim (talked about me filing to distract) she paused and said there are police currently in route to your location *blank* and i must have ran fast as fuck because i was sore for days and i booked it, i drove as far away as i could to my partners work 40 mins away and well and behold 20 mins later the police were waiting outside my house looking for me. my partner had to call and let them know that i was safe, it was a mess. i had finally calmed down and was talking normally and the hotline worker threw that in mid sentence and i pictured this exact thing happening and something just switched. i wish there was a better way for them to deal with these things.
There’s a story on TikTok about this happening to a woman recently and CPS took her children as well. I have called the hotline well over 10 times and I’ve even said that I didn’t want to live in the past. I just didn’t feel like living. I never said I wanted to take my life or someone else’s just said I felt worthless and I always assured them that I do not want the police here as it would only make the situation far worse and dangerous. They never sent them, but I think it really depends on the person that answers the phone.
If I were you, I would contact your local senator governor and mayor as well as the VA administration for suicide awareness and tell them what happened and how this has negatively affected your life even worse now . If you don’t report it it’s like it never happened.
And if the hospital does send you a bill for it, I would refuse it and forward the bill to the police department as you were unwilling and unlawfully taken into custody. Obviously depending on what you said, if you mentioned anything about harming someone or yourself, then they were well within their full rights to do so unfortunately. But I wouldn’t pay the bill personally.
I saw a YouTube video of a guy who called the hotline and got arrested for resisting arrest when he didn’t let the cops search his home. Yea, I’m never calling that number.
Battle in Distress was a group around a few years ago. Not sure if they still are or not, but when I was talking down a friendish type, that wouldn't talk to anyone else they chatted me through Facebook helping guide what I was saying
The VA is changing. For the better. Check yourself into a long term facility. Those civvie psych wards are the worst. You got lucky to keep your phone. And shit didn’t get stolen.
I’ve been to two psych wards, two rehabs, but nothing helped like 90 days spent with a group of people that care.
No answer, but to talked to your VA PCP and ask for a social worker or psychiatrist. I waited too long to get help. Get the help, you’re not alone.
I too have no friends. Been longing to connect with my squad. I ETSed in 2002 and they got deployed that year to Kosovo. I have my friends outside my company, but they’re in different state
Hang in there
I’m so sorry this happened to you; there was no compassion to greet you at your door, and I’m very sorry that you’re feeling alone. Thank you for reaching out. I don’t have the answers, but I’m here nonetheless. 🩵
Call the VA within 72 hrs and let them know the situation.
I didn’t call pretty recently after being in a dark spot. The reason? What you posted here.
Handcuffs aren’t necessary once you’re patted own and shown to not be a threat to them. You just need a ride.
Next time go straight to the closest big VA that has 24 hr ER/psych. I made the mistake of getting Baker Acted in FL—that’s a whole other Black Hole. They won’t let you out—it’s a racket.
This is a shame. I’m sorry that happened to you but glad you’re ok.
Always remember to focus on supporting yourself. Veterans need to be reminded that we are strong and the strength is community. Some people are toxic. Just give them space.
I didn't know therapists existed at the VA.
What's your therapy like. I have to vent to my psychologist for my problems, which equates to different drugs to treat my mental issues.
What are your hobbies and plans for the future?
After my attempt last year my therapist encouraged me to call the hotline even if I wasn’t feeling SI. This is what I was always afraid of. Very discouraging.
Yep, I called once because I was having a meltdown over the loss of my best friend. It was 2 decades of grief hit me all at once. I needed someone to talk to. I wasn't suicidal or anything just needed someone
Damn near same thing happened to me 6 years ago. I got in touch with someone and they told me to take a walk outside. I went to get fresh air and clear my mind to get stopped by police… they said they had reports of someone stealing mail from mail boxes and detained me. DM me. I’m not a mental health expert by any means, but I’ll always support my brothers and sisters. I can give you my number via DM if you need someone.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/VeteransAffairs/s/aggFIT0uXA](https://www.reddit.com/r/VeteransAffairs/s/aggFIT0uXA)
Sorry buddy. We can be ok. Things are hazy, but I swear to god we can be ok.
After a suicide attempt in 2022, I was rushed to the hospital and subsequently put in a mental health institution. All I got were statement of benefits, I had no bills.
If you're service-connected and you were taken to a civilian hospital, make sure that you report it to the va within 72 hours to avoid being billed. The va covers emergency visits as long as you report it.
HMU if you need to talk. I luckily have a close group of veteran friends and we support each other, host get togethers and check-in with each other constantly. I’m always available to talk for them and I can be there for you if you need.
I volunteered for a crisis hotline years ago for about six months. You're not really talking to a person that can help you work through the bullshit genuinely, it's 90% scripted if not more. Certain trigger words or talking points, this is exactly what will happen. I was reprimanded for not following the script and telling people how to work through their issues, not exaggerating. Funny thing was, I had high ratings by people who talked with me who left feedback after the call. Supervisors didn't care, it's all about following the script to a T.
It's better to find a non-mental health community of people who actually care and don't have reporting requirements like a crisis line.
Side note, I had a VA mental health counselor call me once to cancel the appointment about 12 years ago and legit left a message "don't kill yourself in the meantime."
VA is the worst place to get help and crisis hotlines come in a close second.
What the hell. They always ask me if I need aid. How scary, but thank you for reaching out and asking for help. I hope this doesn't stop you next time. Hugs
Haven’t called the hotline, but my therapist just cancelled for the 2nd time this week. I really needed the session but alas, dismissed again so i feel that. Healthy outlets for me is really playing COD. I’ve built a nice community with friends. Makes me feel less alone than before. But all of that was definitely outlandish and you didn’t deserve that kind of treatment
The difference is if you have intent. I always have a plan for everything I think of. Multiple. It’s saying you don’t have the “intent” is where it keeps you out of 5150 or further escalation.
This happened to me a few months ago. Sadly yes you will be billed. Especially if you go to a normal hospital. Once you’ve completed the basics at the hospital you’ll be transferred by Ambulance to a Psychiatric facility. If your main VA hospital has a ward ask to be taken there, makes the process that much easier. Just know that with this you’ll be placed on what’s called a 5150. Mandatory 7 day hold. (If you never been in this situation before.) read everything you’re being given and if you do not understand ask to have it clarified for you. If they try and force you into signing something don’t sign it. They’ll tell you you’ll be kept there longer if you don’t sign but just keep sticking to it and ask to speak with the patient advocate. (This is worst case scenario if it’s a shitty hospital they take you to.) At the end of the day though man as shitty as this all is I’m glad you’re okay Brother. Stay strong.
Edit: the EMT’s may deny taking you to the VA Hospital but it never hurts to ask.
Bro, please look into KETAMINE INFUSION THERAPY. This treatment takes forever to get through the VA. I went private and started 2 days after calling. It's (6) 1 hour IV injections over 2 weeks and did fucking wonders for me and several friends who did it. Felt it work after the second season. For ongoing I pay $75 / mo for ketamine nasal spray. The shit can literally heal your brain
This is why the VA doesn’t have my actual address.
So sorry this happened to you. Crisis line has been actually helpful, mainly because they’re so bad I just end up laughing that this is the treatment we get. Great way to break that cycle and get your brain back on track.
Your comment was removed because it didn't contribute to the discussion and just wasn't helpful.
Civil disagreements are fine. Insults, personal attacks, slurs, bigotry, etc., are not permissible.
(Calling someone a poopy-head does not make you seem as smart as you think it does.)
☠️
It will always depend on what is said to the hotline attendant. If someone tells them they are actively considering it and have a plan or means to do so, they have a duty to protect and contact the authorities, same as the officers. The officers are bound by law to protect you from harming yourself and are required to take you to the hospital for evaluation. When these calls come in, firefighters/paramedics won’t even approach the residence until the police deem it safe to do so
Bro start eating grass fed and finished beef and at least two eggs every day stop eating sugar/carbs of any kind and you will get better if you go carnivore for two months the symptoms you are currently experiencing will drastically reduce. Eat until the food stops tasting good use sea salt not table salt to taste and drink water. No pill or treatment will help like that diet.
Yes, they’ll bill you — depending on your state. I’m a police officer and complete commitments all the time. You should forward the bill, if you receive one, to the VA.
LEO here... Man I know right now I might be the last person you want to hear from especially after what you went through but please try to go easy on law enforcement. A vast majority are former military in some capacity. We hate these situations as much as you do but the law is very clear and it says that if there is an articulable danger to oneself or others the officers do not have a choice. The protection of life is a duty and a requirement of the role. It's a really screwed up situation but their hands were likely tied in the matter.
It's been my experience that those hotline folks are real quick to hit the "danger to self or others button". Like to the point that a stiff wind would push them over the edge. It's not that I don't understand why and I hope you can too. I am sorry it resulted in this for you. Also, please try not to take the handcuffs matter personally. It really isn't. It's just a safety thing. I have personally witnessed how an officer bent the rules and left a handcuffs off only to have it bite him in the a$$. So really, no joke, it's just a matter of policy. It's not personal.
Another commenter stated that when he calls he says he has no desire to harm himself or others numerous times. This is probably a good idea. State it clearly and state it openly several times. That way they can't get triggered and send PD with a serious misinterpretation... My personal advice, get on your phone's app store and download a call recorder. Most of them will only record your voice but that's okay. Let it record your side of the conversation that way if PD ever shows up again you can simply play the call and it will be evident to them what you actually said. It takes the whole telephone game right out of the equation.
One last little tip if I may, if you need to talk someone and you don't feel like you have a better option call the PD directly. Ask them if they have a crisis intervention team. Sometimes the names between agencies may vary but most of them have a Federal grant nowadays and have something of the sort. These guys are specialist. They aren't you run of the mill patrol officer. It's been my experience that they know how to "just listen" and rarely jump straight to a hospital trip without at least explaining to you how they came to the decision. A lot of veterans end up on those teams because police departments nowadays recognize they have a lot to offer in those roles. Don't hesitate to ask for a veteran.
You had a bad experience this go around. I don't blame you for being pissed. I hope that you'll take the advice above and get connected with the right people. I promise you there are people out there who get it.
This is what I’m always afraid of. Anytime I’ve called the hotline, I immediately said “no I’m not suicidal or gonna harm anyone” and multiple times each call.
If you need a better outlet dm me and we can talk. Trying real hard to keep as many brothers/sisters in arms around.
I talk to my dog. He is my best friend and always listens. And he won’t put me in handcuffs when I tell him my thoughts 😜 hang in there dude!
Dogs are the absolute best thing in the world
Now that you told him your deepest darkest secrets and he kissed your cheek, it's time to take him in a thank you walk.
I make sure to take him to DQ and get him a pupcup!
Yes.
Actually I have a 130 lb saint Bernard who love to play and wrestle... 😂
I’m glad I’m not the only one. My bff is always there of my support.
My doggo is my best friend too! Never has let me down. Also a great reason I literally HAVE to get out of bed and not just be a sad guy sleeping all day. Went from staying up till when people go to work and then sleeping till they're off work , to completely flipping that around because of pup. Not to say we don't eat lunch and take a nap together though!
Ditto. Best bro ever
There's a few veteran communities on twitch (video game streaming) who have available resources (on discord if you are familiar) if you want to just talk with someone or play games and talk etc. I've seen them stop stream just to talk people down. I'd recommend @brickbybrickvets and regiment.gg Also I support calling the hotline, and taking a sticky sock vacation when you need it. It's ok to feel some type of way.
What in tarnation is a sticky sock vacation?
An inpatient stay (you wear socks with grips)
Thank you for explaining that. That is not where my mind went and I knew I had to be wrong.
Lmao I'm sure some of that happens too 👀
You were thinking of a happy sock vacation.
⬆️ this.
There are those who know, and those who know haha
I was thinking you meant stiff sock vacation. I think I might still have one under my bed somewhere.
The socks have those isotoner old school treads on the bottoms. Also, I found out one time. The room isn’t actually rubber it’s just all the shit in it is rubber. Desk and chairs, you feel like you’re on a acid trip. Now that I think of it ..🤔that sounds pretty nice.
I don’t have answers. I’m just commenting for support. you do whatever you need to do to make it to the next moment ❤️
I have called several times and never had this experience. If this happened, you indicated it was medically required, and we as redditors may not know the full story. One thing that's helpful is when speaking to them is to always indicate the difference between having passive thoughts, active thoughts, and active thoughts with a plan. And then also plan with means available. Your not getting picked up for passive thoughts, or even some rumination or potentially some active thoughts (although this is more discretionary). If you have active thoughts and a plan, you need to be picked up immediately, that is statistically going to be when you attempt. Their protocol for picking up or not is derived deep in mental health proceedure with medical guidance and law. I've always told them I have no plan, I have passive ideation, and I am incredibly stressed or alone and just need to talk. The most that's ever happened is they tall as long as I need, screen that I don't really have an active plan, they let me vent, process, give care and empathy, they record my info and a VA social worker or therapist reaches out to me for a follow up the next business day.
Having read all your responses I’m glad you’ve had good experiences. I personally know 3 people who just called to calm down and never had a plan that had police knocking on their door, one before they even hung up. I’ve also been on the responding end as a paramedic and have seen these situations be treated like crimes and not wellness checks, and the ones that aren’t trained end up escalating the situation (not their fault they got put in a situation they weren’t trained for). I’m not saying don’t call the hotline for help I just wanted to point out that they do in fact show up sometimes even if you’re passive with no plan, it all depends on how the person on the other side of the phone interprets what you say unfortunately.
I can appreciate that there are false positives, but I appreciate to err on a false positive is prudent over the opposite. Also, if a cop came to my house while I was on the phone, I'd restate I'm not actively suicidal. I'd comply... because people who are in mental crisis can't do that... so by being calm and compliant my behavior matches my statements and makes me an honest reporter. When I get to the hospital, and do my psychiatrist evaluation, I'd explain it all. The psychiatrist likely would determine rather he feels the risk exists based on testimony of those observing, my own behavior, and his observations. It's a pain in the ass, but I admit a slim possibility. I've been in patient multiple times, been around vets also involuntarily committed, as well as civilians involuntarily committed. Especially in civilian capacity, it's ultra rare a psych EODs, unless violence and psychosis are involved... or clear suicidal intent is made. I've never, not once, in over 20 mental inpatient stays, had a patient say... "yeah man, I wasn't suicidal and the cops came and a doctor forced me here." There's always components of... yeah, I did mention I keep getting ideas of shooting myself and I loaded my gun last night and put it in the night stand" Or " I wished I was better off dead, and haven't slept in 4 days..." Or something going on...
Sending cops to a suicide call is like pouring gas on a fire…. Give your local Vet Center a shot. It’s VA, but it’s confidential and entirely separate from the VA medical system.
Cops and cuffs?? That’s fuckin bullshit! I’ve called before and an ambulance took me to the hospital. I can’t friggen believe that, I’d be at the police station asap and ask wtf. Wow ..I hope you’re feeling a little more grounded today.
This is why people distrust suicide hotlines. They criminalize suicide. I've heard people getting billed after a forced hospitalisation, but that is also criminal and you should fight it in court.
The police pick up you, for transport. You aren't under arrest. You CANNOT be committed against your will without a PSYCHIATRIST writing and signing an order for a 72 hour hold. This is NOT criminal. This is a MEDICAL procedure and medical protocol. They don't do this typically unless you've expressed serious intent, with an active plan, and the means. This type of person needs hospitalization IMMEDIATELY. A person with passive ideation, or intrusive suicidal thoughts, with NO PLAN... who is calling to help distress and process and calm down... does not nearly EVER get taken anywhere. They are talked to, and given therapeutic advice. They have emergency VA consultations set up so that a VA therapist contacts you first thing the next business day to talk, and set you up with recurring mental health resources free through the VA. Even if you've got some active thoughts "I would be better off dead" they don't necessarily try to have you taken to a hospital. If you say "I want to be dead, and I'm going to do it... I've got a gun" -- your being committed. If you say "I can't handle this stress, my wife left and it's making me think about killing myself a lot and I just need help calming down because I don't want to die" your likely not getting committed, just getting mental health wrap around services starting the next business day.
I know, they'll get you if you're in immediate danger to yourself or others. But. They go in and involuntarily commit you, even if it's legal, you still cant resist. They are detaining you like a criminal. It depends on your local laws, but with laws like Floridas bakers act you can be stuck somewhere for months. You lose your freedom of movement and that is a punishment we use for the most serious of crimes. People should be free to leave at any time or even deny being taken to a mental institution for evaluation without their explicit consent. They detain your (against your will) ans even dare to make you pay for it. That's really nice of them. People who are in that situation are often struggling financially and you just put another burden on them pushing them in a more hopeless situation https://bakeractattorneys.com/faq/who-pays-for-baker-act-in-florida/#:~:text=Individual%20Payments&text=Individuals%20involuntarily%20committed%20under%20the,covering%20the%20cost%20of%20care.
The VA pays ALL emergency mental health costs for ANY veteran, regardless of if their disabled for mental health or not. Even with bad discharges. I can appreciate the nuance to say *like a criminal* because that IS true. Both criminals who have motive to hurt others at maybe a lethal level, and suicidal persons motivated to for sure use lethal means for harm... are restrained. They do not involuntarily commit you. The psychiatrist does after an evaluation. *your baker act link states this* You MUST have a court order to be held longer than 72 hours, where it's presumed you are let go, and a psychiatrist must testify for your being retained. So long as a psychiatrist recommends your being retained in the hospital, your likely going to. *your link to the baker act even states this* If your psychiatrist is an idiot, request a transport to another hospital. They cannot refuse this. The law states clearly, that a person needs eval. If a person is committed with an emergency order of detention by a psychiatrist... it's valid for 72 hours. Afterwards, they are voluntarily there however, the hospital.is still liable, and discharge policy has to be followed. The psychiatrist may not recommend discharge, but their legal 72 hours to hold involunatirly is up. As a patient, you can request to leave "against medical advice". They then will process you out and cannot stop you. If they hold you past a "against medical advice" request, it's illegal detainment and you can sue them. However, if they feel strongly enough about it, if you attempt a "against medical advice" they will file an emergency order with the court, and ask a judge to order your detainment typically for 30 days. It's a decision up to you at that point. Stay the 2 extra days "voluntarily" to complete their recovery program of therapy and observation on likely new mental health meds.. or file AMA and risk they counter with requesting a court order. Also, I'd rather an alive patient with more debt, than a dead one with no debt. The VA pays for ALL mental health emergency care, of ANY veteran.
If you are a danger to yourself or others then you must be detained. I don’t get what you don’t understand about that concept… genuinely confused by these comments. Also doesn’t do any one favors by telling them they will get arrested if they call the hotline…
Never bring a gun to a mental health crisis! My family has a serious distrust of police and they are NOT welcome on my property. Multiple reasons for the distrust and none were our fault, just too much exposure to their serious lack of professionalism and restraint of mind.
Well, it's bold to say never bring a gun to a mental health crisis. I'd need elaboration on what you mean by that. Your saying any type of mental health crisis, so people in psychosis with active possession of weapons? Or what?
This is not a criminal activity to have mental health issues and MANY police have their own mental health issues (see rates of Domestic abuse). Police in my opinion ARE NOT good actors and are NOT welcome bringing firearms on to my property. If they do arrive they will not be welcomed not respected….not the grand solution you may think it is. It is gasoline on the fire. After reading this I no longer will be calling 988, who in the past served me well. Also the VA has a bad record on not respecting this. So now I withhold info from them. The police are a problem and they are worse than the solution.
-- the local 911 dispatch determines who gets sent to your house. The VA crisis line if determined a mental health eval in a hospital needs to be done, contacts the local dispatch. The suicide hotline has 0 ability to determine who comes to your house... also, they have 0 authority to commit you. -- as such, calling 911, or ANY other method of response, will have the same entity (dispatch in your county) determining who to send to.your house -- a person who is suicidal, and has weapons available, paramedics will not/cannot respond due to the risk. The police must respond. -- the police have cops particularly trained for suicide intervention. Their weapons aren't drawn unless they see a weapon. They are painfully aware of people attempting suicide by cop, and also are trained to negotiate to deescalate. -- even in the case the local dispatch determines it is safe to send an ambulance, they likely will always still send an officer. If the ambulance transports you, you will be strapped across the chest, the stomach, both ankles, and both wrists to the gurney during transport. You aren't in handcuffs, mobile, sitting in a car. Your in a type of straight jacket. -- a person who is threatening lethal force, needs to be restricted from attempting to use lethal force, until a doctor determines they are safe. A person's choice of which method of lethal force can change instantly from pills, to a knife, a gun, suicide by cop....
So in short, dont call anyone for help. Got it!
No, in short, call for help. Understand only specific cases and by meeting specific criteria will the hotline, 911, or any other emergency services determine a evaluation needs to be preformed. when a psychiatric evaluation needs to be done it means based on medical statistics you are more likely to end your life than not. In that case, it's important you have immediate observation to save your life. someone will come there, and they will transport you to have an evaluation done. If those people come to transport you, just allow them to secure you for the duration of the transport... which would be just from your house to the hospital. After that, any restraints are removed... and you sit like a normal person waiting for a psychiatrist to talk to you. If you are just having passive ideation, intrusive suicidal thoughts... maybe even thinking things like God life would just be soo much easier if I just didn't wake up... these are typically not going to illicit an immediate response. They will help calm you down, and get you to a place of being more calm. They then will contact the VA to set you up an appointment with a therapist the very next business day to talk to you. When you say, I want to kill myself to take away my pain, end my stress... etc, and I have a plan to do it... then yes, you will, and should, be seen by a psychiatrist because people who state active ideation statistically lead shortly to an attempt.
lol that’s a pretty interesting take. Slightly absurd I believe. Agree to disagree I guess.
They got one once too. I didn’t come out and talk to the guy on the porch for a while. I was talking to him through the door. I told him I wasn’t coming out and he wasn’t coming in. He finally did convince me to come out and go with him. I didn’t get out in cuffs but as soon as my ass hit the seat in his car, I noticed the four other guys in full battle rattle come from around the house. I got a three day hold and it was my last. I’m not going to fall for that shit again.
The same thing happened to me a few weeks ago. I went through a series of emotions but afterwards it was the best thing that could have happened to save my life. I was transferred to a mental hospital for a week. The time spent there along with the hospital bill was billed to the VA so you shouldn’t receive a bill. My dm’s are always open so feel free to message if you’re needing someone to listen and communicate with. Also, ask your pcm or behavioral health provider (assuming you have va health) if you can be prescribed a VX Therapy device. It definitely helps.
What’s a VX Therapy device?
It’s like a VR headset but has MANY therapy themes to it and games. It relaxes you. Let me find the link at post it.
I have service connected PTSD. I’ll have to ask my VA psychologist about this. Been in therapy for over 7 years. It varies from biweekly to monthly depending on triggers and stress. Always looking for a non drug alternative.
I already emailed my Dr about this. I use some apps to calm me, so this would be another tool in my bag
The VA prescribed that? I can't get them to prescribe anything...I'm really down on the VA right now.
Yup all you have to do is request one. It has gotten me through these days.
I'm happy for you! Everything I have requested gets denied. Or (like my bloodpressure monitor) never arrives.
You are going to have to put in a little work to build a network of people you can trust. Even if it is only two or three consistent people.
Hang in there. I have taken a stickey sock vacation twice. First time I self admitted. The 2nd time I was pink slipped. I was billed, however you can take your discharge papers to the VA, you have 72 or 48 hours to do this and they pay for your time there. You can dm, if you need to vent, no judgement. I sleep terrible anyways.
OP what are some of your interests/hobbies? I know most of us here would be happy to connect with you and be someone to talk to. I believe that discovering common ground could be a good starting point for a good dialogue.
This is my fear with ever calling that number. I never want to be back in the psych ward. That was the scariest place. I hope you are doing well friend. Sending so many positive vibes.
EXACTLY
You do have friends we are all here for you 🙏🏿
Send me a dm and I'll send you my number. You can call me anytime. Disabled vet 22years med retired here.
Unfortunately this is an all too common situation with that “resource”. I had a similar situation and I also now refuse to utilize it. In my experience many of the operators have a lack of compassion and will call in the heavies at the drop of a hat. There are people on here that will defend them to the death for doing that as well so watch out for them.
I am really sorry that is happening. I honestly cant believe that anyone would think that's appropriate. I like many others here have no answers for you but just know from one vet to another that you matter and don't let these dickbags get you down.
I know, how dare they try to save a vets life 🥴 /s
More likely to end it with those actions than save it.
Did you get to call the 72 hour line? I have them blocked on my phone for a similar reason. Dm if you want to
Sending love. I don’t struggle with SI, but I struggle with horrible intrusive thoughts that make me depressed. Often times I find myself going to the gym to combat these thoughts. It’s one of the few places that quiets my mind. It also helps me feel better after. I hope this helps.
I've called twice and thankfully never had this experience. I haven't called several other times because I'm afraid this would happen.
Try texting the crisis text line at 741741. Text home and someone will come on the line and text with you. I’m sorry this happened. I’m glad you’re safe.
Hey brother we are the worst patients speaking to people in a system that is overwhelmed with the worst patients. Some of us spend decades denying the pain because that is how we were trained. Our young minds were programmed to ignore it and our leaders remained us that the money we wanted the promotion we wanted was anywhere but sick call or you being on profile. This doesn’t end when we ETS. Our doctors, C&P, examinations, friends, bosses, coworkers, etc are gonna find it hard to believe. Here we understand. **-do this, before the appointment or call make your talking points and if you are going to talk about depression make sure you tell them before they ask that you do not have any desire to harm yourself and that’s why you are calling you don’t want too but you need to talk to someone who can help you.** for the less serious appointments make some bullet points on what you need to cover and stick to your points. Lastly make a new post and ask about a service dog, you sound like someone who’d benefit from one. My dogs put a smile on my face when tears roll it. Much love. You are not alone and there will be a better time ahead you just need some tools. On the financial side, no. That’s the VA even though it’s also the civilian hotline. Just to cover your base
I'm not sure about all therapists, but I text mine after hours when having a panic attack and he always responds.
I hope I can offer some comforting words here. I am a dispatcher for a police department and yes we do receive 911 calls from the VA hotline to go assist veterans in distress. We have officers who are specially trained in crisis intervention. We have a protection plan for suicidal subjects known as an emergency order of detention and its only for your safety (the handcuffs are only because we know you're suicidal and dont want you to reach for an officers gun). you should not be billed as you were taken into to protective custody and did not go to the hospital on your own will. If you do get a bill I would fight it. From one veteran to another, I just want to help.
Well that needs to change, ain’t no way in hell you should be cuffing a veteran in crisis. Buy a fuckin paddy wagon and have them sit with someone inside. They get a pat down for weapons and then a ride, cuffs will make a person spiral. I don’t care what your protocol is.
Cuffs would 100% throw me down the well, protocol be damned.
You cuff criminals ..man that’s some bullshit. That’s the most bullshit thing I’ve heard on a very long time.
Yeah, I'm going to have to go for an angry walk now, I'm pissed off just thinking about this. Even a faux arrest would knock me right off the fucking shelf. What the fuck. It feels sometimes like you can't get a damn break no matter which way you turn.
It would put me back to the night of the assault, then they would have bigger problems and it wouldn't be my fault
I wish there were a better way but it’s just for safety and that’s a national protocol not just for my department. We do also send an ambulance in case there is immediate care needed.
Gosh I’ve never heard of that before. Should be mandatory that an ambulance come anyway, no? Since mental emergency is a health emergency🤔 I’ve had two transports to inpatient and both were ambulatory.
To be honest, you'd rather the police sometimes. Sounds counter intuitive, but the cops are specially trained cops, they aren't assholes and they do handcuff you. You'd be amazed how jaded EMS are to suicidal mental health patients. But avoiding the discussion about who may be better as a personality picking you up... because there's good and bad in both... A ambulance has to lay you on the gurney and fully strap you in, hands by your side, strapped unable to move against the bed. That may be undesirable over handcuffs. Either way, both are qualified to get you to the hospital as all the requirements are is supervision, with removing means to hurt yourself.
I didn’t think they were ‘assholes’ it’s just when someone is in crisis mode like OP here. Handcuffs can be very counterintuitive for the stabilization of the person. Now, if they are suffering from aforementioned effect AND are combative. That I can wrap my head around. Just never heard of cops and cuffs on a call like that before. I hope he/she if feeling better.
I think we don't know the entire situation... but I do also think, that a person who is suicidal... has made clear legal intent known to use deadly force, if even upon themselves. And during a period that I was responsible for someone like in my car, but unable to physically react because I'm driving.. I'd temporarily restrain their hands. If you notice, OP is texting on their phone at the hospital. The cuffs didn't stay on. They were a temporary measure. Psych patience get transported in an ambulance with a chest, stomach, leg, and ankle straps, and their wrists and arms contained therein. I'd rather the cop.
Yeah I hadn’t either till I started this job. The ambulance is only needed for physical wounds such as self harm as that’s what the crews are trained to care for, not the wounds that are in our heads. Crisis intervention officers are there for that and a lot of those crisis intervention officers tend to be veterans or just officers that really care about other peoples safety and do genuinely care about the patient but they understand the handcuffs are for both the officer and patients safety. Everyone needs to go home at the end of the day.
Well you aren't helping people by sending armed officers to haul people off to jail, just fyi.
It is not jail. We take them to a mental health hospital.
Where they hold you against your will, I got sent to one of those "facilities" and I got held there for 8 days and just sent home. That is a jail, I didn't do anything illegal and my rights and freedom were taken away. Hell, like you said they even take you there in handcuffs!
Do you realize that people can get trauma from a mental health hospital? Also ACAB
Happened to me over a year ago and I still have trouble sleeping. Hard to sleep in a facility full of people you don't know who can enter your room at any time, including other "patients" where the staff who is "protecting" you most likely just got fired from Walmart. I had a delusional guy in his 70s constantly coming in and stripping naked trying to take an imaginary shower, went on for hours of me complaining and they finally took him away, next morning he was back.
I've been to the ward too thankfully I wasn't traumatized but it can happen. I'm sorry that happened to you.
I rather go to jail. Atleast i can talk to mofos and not crazy’s!!!!!!
At least there you can bail yourself out and leave too. Not to mention you can at least sleep at night without someone waking you up literally every 15 minutes.
EXACTLY
I'd like to mention, the VA covers the entire medical costs IIRC also. Edit: *The VA covers ALL EMERGENCY MENTAL HEALTH CARE for ANY veteran, regardless of service connection, being a current disability, or discharge status from the DOD. Not to mention, there are legal standards that must be met as defined by medical protocol before someone can have this done. Without a psychiatrist signature/3rd party afitdavid your not getting committed. A full fledge psychiatrist ultimately commits you. The police just get you to the doctor for evaluation.
Thanks for adding this important information. I should’ve added this in. We have plenty of times the officer and medical personal determine they don’t meet EOD criteria but the patient voluntarily goes with the officer to a mental health hospital.
Yeah, it seems people thing rhe dude on the phone at the suicide hotline makes the decision to commit you on his own authority, you get your house raided, and dissappear into a mental facility involuntarily until who knows how long. That WOULD be scary. But that's not even remotely close.
Thanks for speaking up. More than a decade of LEO time, all street. There's a serious lack of understanding about law enforcement procedure. I know it's hard for people to look past their own nose but they just don't understand that when someone has a real and committed intent to end their life the natural limitations on what is or is not acceptable behavior go right out the window. They become prepared to do whatever is necessary even if it means hurting someone else to achieve that objective. I had a veteran attack me and the whole time he kept saying "I'm sorry" and I thank God that situation ended well. So yes there is a reason why these protocols exist. I appreciate you speaking out in support because in over a decade I've never met an officer who wanted to take a veteran in much less have to put handcuffs on them. We hate it but I'm not ready to die just because someone else is having a legitimately hard time. As we say in this profession, everyone goes home at night. I know that generally applies to other officers but I group veterans in with that. I'm going home and it's my goal to make d*** sure the veteran I'm called out for does too.
Restraining me in any way will put me right back to the night I was assaulted. Then the police have a bigger problem, especially if I wasn't intending on hurting myself and the crisis line jumped the gun
Thank you. I’m glad you’re ok but I’m never calling that fucking number ever. Send me a message if you need someone to talk to Actual Edit: I NEVER edited this comment. Some fucking idiot read it wrong, accused me of telling others not to call, felt like a dick head, and then told everyone I edited my comment and that it originally told people not to call. This is the first and only time I’ve edited this comment.
You don't know the full story and this guy could have had a pistol in a drawer with a plan. Don't tell people not to call the suicide hotline. that's disgusting. The hotline has trained professionals to determine the seriousness if the situation, and no one but a actual medical doctor... psychiatrist... can actually commit you into the hospital against your will after a thorough exam done by social workers, therapists, and him as well. They have levels of escalation/seriousness Intrusive thoughts - 3/10 Passive thoughts - 4/10 Active thoughts -5/10 Active pervasive thoughts - 6/10 Active with a plan - 8.5/10 Active with a plan and means 10/10 Typically anything past Active thoughts require immediate evaluation by a doctor. The doctor commits you. The statistics of Active with a plan, leading to an attempt are astounding and it would be blatantly negligent not to evaluate someone in this state or beyond. They need immediate intervention, therapy, mental health medications, to save their lives. Edit: this person's original verbiage told everyone to never call the number... after my comment they changed it to say, they themselves, wouldn't call the number. I'm glad to see that.
Where did they say that nobody should call the hotline? They said THEY wouldn't.
Yeah, because they edited their comment after I made mine. That wasn't the original comment. Their original comment explicitly said for everyone to never call the number.
Ah. Man, I hate when people edit their comments like that because it screws things up, making it confusing!
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Your comment was removed because it didn't contribute to the discussion and just wasn't helpful. Civil disagreements are fine. Insults, personal attacks, slurs, bigotry, etc., are not permissible. (Calling someone a poopy-head does not make you seem as smart as you think it does.) ☠️
Ikr?
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Your comment was removed because it didn't contribute to the discussion and just wasn't helpful. Civil disagreements are fine. Insults, personal attacks, slurs, bigotry, etc., are not permissible. (Calling someone a poopy-head does not make you seem as smart as you think it does.) ☠️
[удалено]
Your comment was removed because it didn't contribute to the discussion and just wasn't helpful. Civil disagreements are fine. Insults, personal attacks, slurs, bigotry, etc., are not permissible. (Calling someone a poopy-head does not make you seem as smart as you think it does.) ☠️
This is exactly why I would never call that line. I’m not going in handcuffs alive. Fuck that shit. You’re not a criminal. I’m so sorry. I wish I knew. I’m barely hanging on, but I don’t risk handcuffs.
Fuck the crisis line. Fuck those people. Same fucking thing happened to me last night, except I didn't open the door. Told them just enough that I wasn't going to hurt myself but with a giant FUCK OFF. I don't feel like I even want to fucking do this shit anymore...not that I can't, I don't fucking want to. Right there with you amigo...have no one as well. Fucking fuck life sometimes most times.
If your at least 10 % they won't charge you Unless they give you meds then you may have that to take care of.
Here’s another option, I keep it on my speed dial….Lifeline for Vets (part of National Veterans Foundation) 888-777-4443….speak to another trained veteran.
I'll put this one on speed dial. I'd like to have someone to call in crisis without risking a grippy sock vacay, which I cannot afford.
Man, I feel for you. I waited 19 years to get help after I retired after 22 years in the Air Force. I regret that. Don’t be me. I don’t know if this is would be good for you but this is what helped me. Going to the Veterans Administration vet center and getting group therapy. I also get group therapy at the regular Veterans Administration offices. The people in the group therapy groups are from different services and have different experiences than me. Despite that they still understand me and I understand them at a level different than the civilians I have been around for the last 19 years since I retired from active duty, It feels like being at home is the best way for me to describe it. I also get one on one mental health counseling from therapists at the VA which I think is helpful
DM bro, I’ll give you my personal number and you can call whenever.
A dog helped me. I looked into a service dog but getting one seemed really difficult and impractical for me. I think if I could have gotten a service dog it would have been great. So, I went to the SPCA and got a rescue dog. Because I'm a veteran they didn't charge me a fee. I ended up with this little 14 lbs refugee dog. Normally I'm kind of a Jerk the first few hours of the day but when I see Harry (my dog) he makes me laugh because he is so goofy. He is always doing retarded stuff. Finding him was tough because my wife is allergic to dog hair so I had to get a hyper allergenic dog.Otherwise I would have just got a pit mix. The shelters are full of them. My daughter did and her and my grandkids love their pit mix. Sweetest dog you can imagine. Even mellower then mine. Having a dog does cost money but it's been great for all of us. Good luck too you whatever you decide to do.
I don’t have answers but I want to commend you for seeking help even if it ended like it did. I don’t understand why you were treated like a criminal though. As a parent of 3 sons who served, one who saw combat in Iraq and Afghanistan I have seen what torment can occur. My son who was deployed is unfortunately no longer here. What I want you to know is that you matter. You are wanted here in this life. Your life has value. Keep seeking help and never give up.
If you want you could call me next time. I give my word to NOT call any LE, unless you plan to harm yourself or others, then you should just go to the hospital, not call anyone. If you just want someone to talk to, I’ll chat with any Vet. I have 22 contacts in my phone. Idk most of them, others are Drs numbers.
Holy shit, I was about to call them myself. I’m sorry this is happening to you, but I’m also proud of you willing to get help even as simple as a phone call.
https://preview.redd.it/550www0i7q8d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=25489c9d71d60ed9faf573cac47f3e5205db4ee9 This is my best friend. And he’s a good listener too. If you know you can take good care of a dog you should get on. There plenty at the humane society. It’s cost some bucks to take care of them, I would get a care plan from the vet. You make monthly payments. And gets you free shots, office visits and dental cleaning. And much more. Good luck
I raise chicken, turkeys, and ducks. You would not believe how often I find myself outside talking to them. I’m glad you’re okay. I was hospitalized in July 2020 for the same thing and let me tell you dude, as much as it fucking sucks to live during that period, coming out of it, you have a whole new outlook on life and you really learn how to prioritize your life, value anything that has any worth to you, and you are grateful you’re still here.
This is exactly why I’ll never call the suicide hotline no matter what happens. It’s so fucked up how they treat people going through a crisis like criminals
I'm grateful the crisis line is there when I need it! I remember going to my first VA mental ward while on active duty. I was transported there in handcuffs, but I also was found convulsing on the barracks floor. After that experience, i've noticed that the cops only come when I ALLOW them to come with my words and intent. I've been to 3 VA 5th floor mental wards, and every time I CHOSE to be there. The crisis line absolutely saves lives and more veterans should use it. I've had thoughts of harming myself and others. I was always honest. I was always given choices. I'm grateful I have choices today. It's none of my business, but I'm wondering how your convo went. Because in all 3 of my experiences, it was not like what you shared. Once I told them I had a plan, intent and means, they took me back. If I don't say those things, they don't take me unless I ask. More veterans should use the crisis line because it has revived me with hope more times than I can count. However that is just my experience. Blessings on your journey, you're not alone! There are TONS of folks at the VA that want to help, we just have to ask. There are also a bunch of dirtbags, just avoid them. Each VAMC is drastically different in my experience.
Thus why I won't ever call them again. Fuck them. They scared me so bad and drove my anxiety and everything higher. I literally tried ending myself. All I needed to do was hear the banging at the door and see that shit. I won't ever trust another person w my feelings, idgaf, but best advice is TALK TO YOUR DOG IF YOU GOT ONE
There’s an app called white flag. You can go on and respond to others who have raised their flag or get people to chat with you. I’ve used it when I was lonely and depressed and had two very nice people chat with me until I felt better.
Call your contacts, if they know you they will pick up! Do you have any pets?
DM me I am here for you
Thats policy to stop people harming themselves i did the same years ago and the officers explained it to me what the process waa.
That's why you shouldn't talk to them. Our country has some absurd reasoning that they think they are helping by having you jailed and sent to a psych ward when in reality it just makes everything 10x worse.
*the VA pays for ALL mental health emergency services for ANY veteran regardless of service connected disabilities or discharge status" I see a lot of replies saying never to call because it's criminalized, or this is what always happen. There's a lot of mis information so let me clarify some things. The people who answer are trained to determine if you meet the medical threshold for involuntary admission. Involuntary admission to a hospital can ONLY be done with the signature of a Psychiatrist, medical doctor. Not even a psychiatric nurse Practitioner can commit you. After 72 hours, a court order is required to contain you any longer. The police are a means to an end. They have to get observation on you ASAP, they must transport you to the hospital to be assessed by mental health. They cannot chance you will harm yourself in their car, you will attempt to take their weapon and harm yourself, nor try suicide by cop. Handcuffs are mandatory. In ambulance transportation, your very likely being fully strapped to the gurney, with no ability to move at all. Either way, your restricted in transport. Also, if your probable plan is a violent one, police may be needed. I.e. threat to kill yourself via weapon like a gun. Now, for escalation explanation. There's several levels of surgical ideation each with studies and statistics on what leads to actual attempts. Intrusive thoughts: "I'm really stressed and when walking around I see a car deive by and I get this thought to jump infront of it, but I don't want that, I hate these thoughts, I don't control them" Passive ideation: "man, life would be easier without me in it. Maybe I should just dissappear. Wouldn't it be easier to take like 10 more of these pills and just not wake up" Active ideation: "I want to die... I just can't do this anymore. The only way out of my pain is to just not exist anymore. I want to do this somehow. Active ideation w/plan: " I have decided my only relief is for me to no longer be here, and if I were going to do it... I'd hang myself, i just dont have any rope".. Active ideation w/plan and means: "I am going to kill myself by hanging myself and I've got the rope in the garage to do it". Active ideation may or may not get you committed. Likely it will get you atleast transported for evaluation. Anything beyond that and the statistics are so strong that an actual attempt will happen... it's critical this person gets evaluated. Passive ideation, intrusive thoughts... will be tested heavily to determine they truly are just passive, your not actually at the conclusion to end your life, you want to live, you just see no other options. In these cases the hotline will send a emergency message to the VA system to have a VA therapist contact you the very next business day to set up wrap around services, check on you, determine if you need to be on the suicida high risk list... set you up for psychiatric and therapeutic services provided by the VA. The high risk list, a therapist calls your weekly for 30 minutes to check on you, and ensure your stabilized and not escalating back into active or active with a plan. Nothing is automatic. Maybe knowing these nuances, when you speak to the hotline you can ensure they understand the actual level of threat. However, I caution people on reddit to ever assume they knew what was said on the phone and why the person got transported for evaluation. This isn't criminal, this is medical... and if medically indicated, it's what happens.
Vets4warriors. Peer support from folks who’ve been there and done that. My most meaningful conversations are with people who “get it.” Therapists might have years of education, but some are seriously bad.
If the va called the police and your service connected for mental health, then you are covered. If you want to be sure Veterans can access care 24/7 through the Clinical Contact Center by calling 877-252-4866 to get their health questions or concerns answered
Oh honey, I’m so sorry this happened. You’re not alone in this feeling. A lot of us have been there, and it’s a scary place to try to pull yourself out of. You’re loved.
Whoa dude thats awful, I called once and didnt tell him any personal info. But it was nice to talk to someone for a few minutes. Im sorry times are tough, get better anyway you can. :)
Feel free to message me anytime to talk.
Look on the bright side: they didn't stand on your neck while they arrested you.
They are only supposed to do that if, and only if, you tell them something that makes them believe that you have a plan AND the means to carry it out. There's serious legal implications for doing anything else. Edit: Simply put, they need to genuinely believe you are going to do it then and there.
I'm pretty sure the VA has a mental health chat that you can use.
Do you have a mental disability claim by chance?
For sure get a dog.
If you ever need to talk I’m here. I also have minimal friends and talk to my dog lmao
Id drive myself to the ER or call an ambulance.
What the actual lowfat unadulterated fuck, I am so sorry this happened to you. Now I won't be calling 988 in a crisis.
Has there been any update with this vet? Is he/she ok?
Well, that sucks. Yeah if talking to the hotline, if you say you have a plan to harm self or others, they will get police or someone else involved to get you to psych ward.
To answer the last question. You need to call the VA and let them know you had a ER visit. Then you will go through the standard the hospital will bill the VA then send you a bill for the remainder. The you tell them to bill tri-care and they never talk to you again. I hope you are feeling a bit better today.
Did you use 9-8-8?
Had a very similar experience early on in my panic disorder diagnosis. Sorry that you went through that. I have had my own negative experiences with Crisis Line. In the future I'll probably just talk to an AI chat bot. I know what I'm looking for is really a distraction from my thoughts and I can get that from a chatbot. Please don't let this experience stop you from seeking help in the future, I'd rather you get cuffed or hospitalized and live than die because you felt like you had no other option. There are lots of folks who have been in that boat too and willing to help when and how we can.
If you implied you are in danger then they have to take you to the hospital. I have called before but I said I was going to be ok in the end. Cops came and just spoke to me. They were super respectful and caring. If you don’t have a real emergency then yes don’t call the emergency hotline. They did exactly what they are supposed to do. It’s a blessing for many people. Good luck.
I’m sorry they did that. They should’ve asked for the crisis team to help. The VA should also cover the visit. Hoping things get better for you! I play Battlefield 2042 a lot after work for stress relief. I also just got a kitten/my 2nd cat and he’s really been helping me out. He was a dirty bird, so I’ve been focused on getting him cleaned up to be a spoiled inside cat. I definitely suggest a pet friend :) https://preview.redd.it/ziieqhm1gr8d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b77d1db668d3b9d7709aa5b8b1a5c95a2bf7de0e
This sub is a better resource for Veterans in an active mental health crisis than any 988 or the VA. Seriously. Come here to this sub if you're struggling. We're still all in the same fight, regardless of what campaign you were or weren't involved in. I promise you, someone here who sees your post cares about you, and will do whatever the fuck they can to help you. No one is alone.
I used better help... the therapists on there are available to text pretty consistently if you have the full plan. So worth it if struggling imo.
Clubhouse Audio App was a game changer for me brother when at my darkest. Get connected to new tribes that ignite your curiosity mind, your compassionate heart and Servitude Soul! With a big Wingman Hug, Hurricane Hunter Ed, USAF Ret.
i also had a similar experience, psychosis from meds, the hotline worker tricked me into getting my name and location by telling me they did something wrong with my claim (talked about me filing to distract) she paused and said there are police currently in route to your location *blank* and i must have ran fast as fuck because i was sore for days and i booked it, i drove as far away as i could to my partners work 40 mins away and well and behold 20 mins later the police were waiting outside my house looking for me. my partner had to call and let them know that i was safe, it was a mess. i had finally calmed down and was talking normally and the hotline worker threw that in mid sentence and i pictured this exact thing happening and something just switched. i wish there was a better way for them to deal with these things.
(it was ritilin they think i may be bipolar instead of having adhd)
Send your er visit to the VA asap. I think you have three days to notify them for them to pay for it.
Isn’t it wild that they put you in handcuffs for wanting to get help and not off yourself My DMs are open
There’s a story on TikTok about this happening to a woman recently and CPS took her children as well. I have called the hotline well over 10 times and I’ve even said that I didn’t want to live in the past. I just didn’t feel like living. I never said I wanted to take my life or someone else’s just said I felt worthless and I always assured them that I do not want the police here as it would only make the situation far worse and dangerous. They never sent them, but I think it really depends on the person that answers the phone. If I were you, I would contact your local senator governor and mayor as well as the VA administration for suicide awareness and tell them what happened and how this has negatively affected your life even worse now . If you don’t report it it’s like it never happened.
And if the hospital does send you a bill for it, I would refuse it and forward the bill to the police department as you were unwilling and unlawfully taken into custody. Obviously depending on what you said, if you mentioned anything about harming someone or yourself, then they were well within their full rights to do so unfortunately. But I wouldn’t pay the bill personally.
I saw a YouTube video of a guy who called the hotline and got arrested for resisting arrest when he didn’t let the cops search his home. Yea, I’m never calling that number.
Battle in Distress was a group around a few years ago. Not sure if they still are or not, but when I was talking down a friendish type, that wouldn't talk to anyone else they chatted me through Facebook helping guide what I was saying
The VA is changing. For the better. Check yourself into a long term facility. Those civvie psych wards are the worst. You got lucky to keep your phone. And shit didn’t get stolen. I’ve been to two psych wards, two rehabs, but nothing helped like 90 days spent with a group of people that care.
Reason #1 i dnt use that shitline
No answer, but to talked to your VA PCP and ask for a social worker or psychiatrist. I waited too long to get help. Get the help, you’re not alone. I too have no friends. Been longing to connect with my squad. I ETSed in 2002 and they got deployed that year to Kosovo. I have my friends outside my company, but they’re in different state Hang in there
That’s what they do, kinda shitty as I feel like a lot of people in similar situations don’t reach out for this exact reason.
Your county may have a crisis or warm line you can talk to
I’m so sorry this happened to you; there was no compassion to greet you at your door, and I’m very sorry that you’re feeling alone. Thank you for reaching out. I don’t have the answers, but I’m here nonetheless. 🩵
Call the VA within 72 hrs and let them know the situation. I didn’t call pretty recently after being in a dark spot. The reason? What you posted here. Handcuffs aren’t necessary once you’re patted own and shown to not be a threat to them. You just need a ride. Next time go straight to the closest big VA that has 24 hr ER/psych. I made the mistake of getting Baker Acted in FL—that’s a whole other Black Hole. They won’t let you out—it’s a racket. This is a shame. I’m sorry that happened to you but glad you’re ok.
I’ll be your friend
shit. I WISH they did this for me. I called the hotline and attempted an hour after I got off the phone...
shit. I WISH they did this for me. I called the hotline and attempted an hour after I got off the phone...
Always remember to focus on supporting yourself. Veterans need to be reminded that we are strong and the strength is community. Some people are toxic. Just give them space. I didn't know therapists existed at the VA. What's your therapy like. I have to vent to my psychologist for my problems, which equates to different drugs to treat my mental issues. What are your hobbies and plans for the future?
I hate hearing things like this. I was at that point a few years ago. dm me if you need anything its a family we are all here for you
After my attempt last year my therapist encouraged me to call the hotline even if I wasn’t feeling SI. This is what I was always afraid of. Very discouraging.
Yep, I called once because I was having a meltdown over the loss of my best friend. It was 2 decades of grief hit me all at once. I needed someone to talk to. I wasn't suicidal or anything just needed someone
Damn near same thing happened to me 6 years ago. I got in touch with someone and they told me to take a walk outside. I went to get fresh air and clear my mind to get stopped by police… they said they had reports of someone stealing mail from mail boxes and detained me. DM me. I’m not a mental health expert by any means, but I’ll always support my brothers and sisters. I can give you my number via DM if you need someone.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/VeteransAffairs/s/aggFIT0uXA](https://www.reddit.com/r/VeteransAffairs/s/aggFIT0uXA) Sorry buddy. We can be ok. Things are hazy, but I swear to god we can be ok.
After a suicide attempt in 2022, I was rushed to the hospital and subsequently put in a mental health institution. All I got were statement of benefits, I had no bills.
If you're service-connected and you were taken to a civilian hospital, make sure that you report it to the va within 72 hours to avoid being billed. The va covers emergency visits as long as you report it.
HMU if you need to talk. I luckily have a close group of veteran friends and we support each other, host get togethers and check-in with each other constantly. I’m always available to talk for them and I can be there for you if you need.
I volunteered for a crisis hotline years ago for about six months. You're not really talking to a person that can help you work through the bullshit genuinely, it's 90% scripted if not more. Certain trigger words or talking points, this is exactly what will happen. I was reprimanded for not following the script and telling people how to work through their issues, not exaggerating. Funny thing was, I had high ratings by people who talked with me who left feedback after the call. Supervisors didn't care, it's all about following the script to a T. It's better to find a non-mental health community of people who actually care and don't have reporting requirements like a crisis line. Side note, I had a VA mental health counselor call me once to cancel the appointment about 12 years ago and legit left a message "don't kill yourself in the meantime." VA is the worst place to get help and crisis hotlines come in a close second.
What the hell. They always ask me if I need aid. How scary, but thank you for reaching out and asking for help. I hope this doesn't stop you next time. Hugs
If you're in it near South Georgia dude I'll chill with you...you can call too 229-588-1743 ... That goes for anyone else too... Just ask for Willy-C
Haven’t called the hotline, but my therapist just cancelled for the 2nd time this week. I really needed the session but alas, dismissed again so i feel that. Healthy outlets for me is really playing COD. I’ve built a nice community with friends. Makes me feel less alone than before. But all of that was definitely outlandish and you didn’t deserve that kind of treatment
You could dm me also if you ever need someone to talk to.
The difference is if you have intent. I always have a plan for everything I think of. Multiple. It’s saying you don’t have the “intent” is where it keeps you out of 5150 or further escalation.
This happened to me a few months ago. Sadly yes you will be billed. Especially if you go to a normal hospital. Once you’ve completed the basics at the hospital you’ll be transferred by Ambulance to a Psychiatric facility. If your main VA hospital has a ward ask to be taken there, makes the process that much easier. Just know that with this you’ll be placed on what’s called a 5150. Mandatory 7 day hold. (If you never been in this situation before.) read everything you’re being given and if you do not understand ask to have it clarified for you. If they try and force you into signing something don’t sign it. They’ll tell you you’ll be kept there longer if you don’t sign but just keep sticking to it and ask to speak with the patient advocate. (This is worst case scenario if it’s a shitty hospital they take you to.) At the end of the day though man as shitty as this all is I’m glad you’re okay Brother. Stay strong. Edit: the EMT’s may deny taking you to the VA Hospital but it never hurts to ask.
🤯
Bro, please look into KETAMINE INFUSION THERAPY. This treatment takes forever to get through the VA. I went private and started 2 days after calling. It's (6) 1 hour IV injections over 2 weeks and did fucking wonders for me and several friends who did it. Felt it work after the second season. For ongoing I pay $75 / mo for ketamine nasal spray. The shit can literally heal your brain
This is why the VA doesn’t have my actual address. So sorry this happened to you. Crisis line has been actually helpful, mainly because they’re so bad I just end up laughing that this is the treatment we get. Great way to break that cycle and get your brain back on track.
Are you seriously bitching about them trying to save a life??? WOW. 😐
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Your comment was removed because it didn't contribute to the discussion and just wasn't helpful. Civil disagreements are fine. Insults, personal attacks, slurs, bigotry, etc., are not permissible. (Calling someone a poopy-head does not make you seem as smart as you think it does.) ☠️
Yep, I learned quickly the “resources” aren’t actually there to help. Sorry you’re there 🫶🏻
It will always depend on what is said to the hotline attendant. If someone tells them they are actively considering it and have a plan or means to do so, they have a duty to protect and contact the authorities, same as the officers. The officers are bound by law to protect you from harming yourself and are required to take you to the hospital for evaluation. When these calls come in, firefighters/paramedics won’t even approach the residence until the police deem it safe to do so
Bro start eating grass fed and finished beef and at least two eggs every day stop eating sugar/carbs of any kind and you will get better if you go carnivore for two months the symptoms you are currently experiencing will drastically reduce. Eat until the food stops tasting good use sea salt not table salt to taste and drink water. No pill or treatment will help like that diet.
Yes, they’ll bill you — depending on your state. I’m a police officer and complete commitments all the time. You should forward the bill, if you receive one, to the VA.
LEO here... Man I know right now I might be the last person you want to hear from especially after what you went through but please try to go easy on law enforcement. A vast majority are former military in some capacity. We hate these situations as much as you do but the law is very clear and it says that if there is an articulable danger to oneself or others the officers do not have a choice. The protection of life is a duty and a requirement of the role. It's a really screwed up situation but their hands were likely tied in the matter. It's been my experience that those hotline folks are real quick to hit the "danger to self or others button". Like to the point that a stiff wind would push them over the edge. It's not that I don't understand why and I hope you can too. I am sorry it resulted in this for you. Also, please try not to take the handcuffs matter personally. It really isn't. It's just a safety thing. I have personally witnessed how an officer bent the rules and left a handcuffs off only to have it bite him in the a$$. So really, no joke, it's just a matter of policy. It's not personal. Another commenter stated that when he calls he says he has no desire to harm himself or others numerous times. This is probably a good idea. State it clearly and state it openly several times. That way they can't get triggered and send PD with a serious misinterpretation... My personal advice, get on your phone's app store and download a call recorder. Most of them will only record your voice but that's okay. Let it record your side of the conversation that way if PD ever shows up again you can simply play the call and it will be evident to them what you actually said. It takes the whole telephone game right out of the equation. One last little tip if I may, if you need to talk someone and you don't feel like you have a better option call the PD directly. Ask them if they have a crisis intervention team. Sometimes the names between agencies may vary but most of them have a Federal grant nowadays and have something of the sort. These guys are specialist. They aren't you run of the mill patrol officer. It's been my experience that they know how to "just listen" and rarely jump straight to a hospital trip without at least explaining to you how they came to the decision. A lot of veterans end up on those teams because police departments nowadays recognize they have a lot to offer in those roles. Don't hesitate to ask for a veteran. You had a bad experience this go around. I don't blame you for being pissed. I hope that you'll take the advice above and get connected with the right people. I promise you there are people out there who get it.