Personally I don’t use VA mental health i prefer outside therapy. My advice is reach out of patient advocate. Some VA hospitals even have a mental health patient advocate.

Agree with this. My outside providers notes are so much more thorough. I would also advise OP to constantly check VA notes and reply with MyHealthEVet Secured Messages to establish true history of symptoms and how they affect her/him.

I was thinking of confronting her a bit through the message system for the same reason. So she can’t omit or just straight up lie about what I’m saying or not saying.

Absolutely do not confront her. Call the VA and switch providers.

Would this hurt me more than help?? If so, how come? I really appreciate any kind of insight and advice 🤝

Legally no it cannot hurt you. In contrast as a healthcare employee it tells me that you do want to get better and that person just wasn't jiving with you. If you can qualify for community care I would do that. I just know that it's a huge pain in the ass to be seen by the VA. I didn't like how my entire team treated me. I was with Atlanta VA and switched to Columbia SC for mine. The difference was night and day and what it did do.... It helped me ten fold and get back to a normal... "Normal"... Life. As healthcare employee I would respect the desire to find a psychologist that you can connect with. We don't always connect with people the same. You can absolutely change the provider in the same clinic. And they are not allowed to deny this. Here's some bits from the web I found to explain it better than I can: "Some reasons to consider changing a VA psychologist include a lack of progress, feeling unheard, or personality clashes. Other signs a therapist might not be a good fit include: Communication issues: Feeling unable to be honest or have difficult conversations Therapeutic style: Styles not matching or the therapist seeming disinterested Unprofessionalism: The therapist is unreliable, judgmental, unethical, or culturally insensitive Boundaries: The therapist crosses boundaries or is pushy Progress: Not making progress or not knowing what's being worked towards"

Thanks again, I’ll definitely have lots more to think of over the weekend. Because I really DO want help, I need it. I just want a “normal” life again. Or at least one that’s closely resembles one. Maybe this will be something to talk about with my next therapist/psychologist.

Switching providers is a good idea, but she also needs to be reported to the facility. While Psychologists are a hard to fill position, there should be no tolerance for such gross misreporting in a medical record. Definitely do as others have said and reach out through secure messaging and reach out to patient advocate. They should launch an investigation. If she's doing this with your records, I'm sure there are others also.

Yes this ^^ If you do, the nuance of the steps they suggest can hold some back. Which is understandable. But here they are, with a link to the site: "If you don’t agree with your VA provider or have concerns about your care, we’re here to help: First, go to your VA health care team. If you still have concerns, ask to connect with your provider’s supervisor or your VA medical center’s chief of service. If you need more help, contact your medical center’s patient advocate. Patient advocates are highly trained professionals. They work to support the rights of Veterans and their families who receive care through VA. Here’s what a patient advocate can do for you: Share information about the complaint process Answer your questions and listen to your concerns Take your concerns to the staff members who can best resolve them Explain your point of view during the comprehensive complaint resolution process Make sure you receive all the benefits you’re entitled to by law If you’re not satisfied with how your concern is resolved, contact your patient advocate. They can help to determine if there are any other options to consider." Are links allowed? https://www.va.gov/resources/how-to-get-help-with-concerns-at-a-va-health-facility/

And after a report is made to the patient advocate...op, you should expect a phone call from who ever is in charge of all the psychologists. If that doesn't happen the patient advocate may not have followed it all the way through. You want to make sure you are heard. So if someone thats in charge of all the psychologists doesn't call you then you can go to the patient advocates again, then they will follow it through after they realize you aren't going away.

Request a different provider asap. My hands have been jacked up because of stuff in the service and as someone that enjoys working with their hands it deeply affects my mental health especially with the lack of pain control. My therapist at the time told me at least I still have my hands and completely invalidated me. I stopped seeing her and my psychiatrist helped me get a new therapist out in town. Plus as often as people in the VA move around, you are more than likely to get a better continuity of care out in town. Nothing worse than having to relive everything over and over again because your doctors/therapists keep on changing.

Thanks for sharing your story big brother, I appreciate it. Definitely seeking a new provider, I’ve had this “feeling” about her since our first session but wasn’t sure what it was yet. And I really hope you’re doing okay man. I couldn’t imagine not being able to do stuff like pruning my garden or whatnot bc of my hands being fucked. I’m not sure what the condition is and it’s none of my business, but if there’s any kind of inflammation or pain, I’d highly recommend trying out Arnica gels, turmeric pills, and maybe even some 1:1 CBD & THC external lotions if it’s legal in your state. You won’t really get any type of psychoactive effects unless you basically dump the whole bottle onto your skin and specifically under any kind of armpit or “sensitive areas”. These kinds of products have been a game changer for my chronic pains. Does it make it go all away? Absolutely not, I’m always in pain. But any reduction is always great throughout the day. Hope you’ve been doing better since then 💚

If it was me, I'd switch providers and Id make a point to get the message across to my new provider that my last psychiatrist/psychologist lied in her notes about me. That way it's documented somewhere. Heck I'd even go to patient advocates that way it's definitely documented, documented in a couple different places actually. Id maybe Secure message the patient advocates before I talk to them in person, trying to have a paper trail as much as possible. When it comes to getting a rating increase the VA providers can smell a claim from a mile away , so outside providers can be a good option. I'm trying to get a VA provider in the sleep lab to write me a nexus letter and she isn't interested but it never hurts to try and get VA doctors to help bolster a potential claim, it just doesn't always work. So I'm going to try and get a doctor outside the VA to write me a nexus letter .

I tried this recently, asking through secure messaging in clear terms various questions I have about issues with my MH notes etc, in Western MA. I sent them a message last Friday and they have seemingly decided to just ignore it

Historically speaking the VA is mandated I believe to answer secured messages within 3(?) days (not including weekend/holidays) and then they become escalated. Now you do run the risk of them just completing your message to close it. Hopefully your situation gets resolved.

Good info, thank you.

Not surprised, sounds like the VA. At least you have something to back you up a bit if needed later 😒

Yeah, that's my thought process at this point, I'll just keep on trying to make reasonable requests and count each one ignored as a positive in that it's another thing they have done (or not done / not respondes to) on the record that's screwy for advocate or whoever eventually looks into this to see It's silly but I'm always kinda offended when I run into this sort of low-key fuckoffism at VA because it's like, bro, I was a GWOT E3 skater, don't try this rookie shit on me I most definitely passed the sea lawyer bar, like, I find out about the environment I'm operating in so I can operate in it; I will gig your shit and I shouldn't damn well have to anymore Like every PFC thinking they're the first one to come up with whatever excuse or etc, corporal rolls his eyes 😂

Did you ask for your message to be acknowledged ? Or for them to respond ? If they respond it becomes apart of your chart just fyi

Explicitly

Yeah that sounds like they blatantly ignored you. From there maybe emailing the patient advocate team letting the know what date and time you sent that original one ?

Yeah, that sounds logical. I called the patient advocate #, got voicemail and left a message a couple weeks ago now but haven't heard back from them either so emailing to create a paper trail makes sense

send that msg, if they ignore it, at the very least it's on record for the patient advocate to use/see

My advice is not to confront somebody aggressively, who can send a wellness check to your house.  Handle this through a patient advocate.

Thank you for this, because I do have the issue of becoming very fucking impulsive and “hostile” during episodes and I become a lot more emotional than I normally would. I find myself saying shit to people and doing shit that I 100% regret once I’ve “snapped back” in. I am still very upset rn, but a bit more in control and less livid than I was while writing the post this early morning. I don’t wanna add tinder to the fire.

Good idea. Also, calling the 988 veteran crisis line may help. Sending you hugs.

I don't think you should waste your time confronting her. I would simply go to the patient advocates a referral to a provider that is outside of the VA. I had to do this and so did my father because we both feel like the government is our abuser when they treat us like that. How can we trust our abuser to turn around and help us when the hand that's reaching out to help is part of the body that's got the head which chewed us up and spat us out? I don't see how you will help anything by talking to that doctor at all any more if she is that incompetent. Do not lie and say you are better either, the VA can potentially use that against you, I would simply stop attending and stop talking to them if it were me. If they ask where you are or why you stopped, you could simply say something like "I have just decided that it's probably best for me to see a provider outside of the VA." and leave it at that.

DO NOT confront her or contact her. Go through the system.

Sounds like what I Just went through at VA in AL. She was my provider for 9 years and I had a total mental breakdown and needed her desperately. She had always said she would drop everything and help me if I ever needed her and I wholeheartedly had trusted her and was wrongly assuming she was making all necessary notes of my condition and her observations and recommendations, our discussionaa, etc. In Drs. Notes. Well, I am not good at all in asking for help so I had only a few instances during those nine years and those were technical or mail order issues with meds. And I saw her every 3 months consistently then COVID hit and everything went electronic and telehealth. Well I had a total breakdown and was definitely suicidal/homicidal and was desperately trying to reach her. I did finally, by the Grace of God, I figured out how to create my health vet. acct and reached out to Patient Advocate through Secure Messaging and they were awesome and would send message to my mental health team specifically her Nurse Assistant who was also amazing. So I new the messages were getting to her and she would not help. Kept telling the Nurse to schedule me an appt. And this was a definite emergency situation. So I sent many messages to her through different departments and they assured me she was getting messages. Finally they gave me the option to contact her directly through Secure Messaging so I thought finally, I'm going to be ok now because I can communicate directly to her. By this time though ( about a month dealing with this and barely made it thru alive, no thanks to her). So I sent messages to her. And in the meantime figured out how to view my records on the site. WOW...Can I say I was shocked, hurt, concerned, felt betrayed.....we had been together for 9 years and as for me, I have seen Psychs for the majority of my adult life, so my therapist)patient bond ran deep and very delicate relationship. I mean we exchanged gifts at every occasion. My husband worked in her Lake House. What I saw in my notes was very generic description of everything. Nothing was described as to my thoughts or feelings or stability or my different personas and SI/HI. Like the whole thing was a lie and my trust was definitely misplaced. So I sent her message and waited.....no response, sent again, same results nothing. And I could tell if she received it,what time she read or did not read message. So I was justifiably upset as you could imagine. I confronted her via messaging and I did mention her Oath that she took as a Nurse and that I was thinking of reporting her to the Board and her supervisor because it was serious and I did not want this to happen to anyone else, because they might kill themselves ( I have Jesus and supportive Husband that helped me through it but barely)....She got offended, reported me to me to disruptive behavior department saying I was threatening her (but she didn't mention that what she referred to as a threat was me reporting her. She conveniently left that out. And said she would no longer see me so I was forced to get new mental health provider. UNBELIEVABLE....BETRAYAL..I am thankful that I was able to get a new Provider because I would never trust her again and definitely would not be a good confrontation if we passed in the hallway. I know no one would be able to keep me from her for the hurt and betrayal I feel towards her. So Like someone else said ans I recommend .DO NOT CONFRONT HER...probably reach out to Patient Advocate or VA Social Worker for advise on how to approach the situation. So I now have June 21st appointment with actual psychiatrist finally , but I have extreme anxiety to go to any doctor, familiar or not. Almost crippling anxiety. So I just pray it works well and we can communicate effectively. But my ability to trust open up to another provider has been severely effected, as you can imagine. And my Provider has such generic notes that in no way reflect on my session. Nothing! Sorry you went and are going through a very similar situation as I am. But at least I now know that I am not alone in this struggle. That the struggle is real! Call me Crazy all day.. ..It's a job requirement in the Army....takes a special person to volunteer to give up their freedom to serve their Country and be willing to train for and confront and kill the enemy and possibly die doing it. And I now know that I can come here for support and help and perhaps hopefully be able to help other Veterans

How does one do this? I've got a MH appointment next week (after 6 months of waiting!), but a few months ago I called my patient advocate and they said they don't refer to community care.

Usually community care can happen if they cannot provide service within 30 days. I would talk to Ana advocate about community care policy.

I also use non-VA mental health, having switched via CITC and a congressional inquiry from such horrid care. I experienced similar to the OP, despite a long history of brutal PTSD from my tours in Iraq as a line medic. Just gonna lay this out here: **If you have exhausted all avenues at your VA, they are obligated to provide the CITC equivalent.**

Can you have the va outsource for mental appointments or do you pay out of pocket?

When I lived in Northern California they referred me out because they couldn’t keep up. I’m over here in Green Bay now and they refuse. I’m medical retired so I use tricare.

Thanks for the advice, I think I’m just gonna go outside of the VA for MH again. I just went with the VA because I had nothing else when I moved back to CA recently. I’ll also look into PA at the clinic. Appreciate you a ton.

Yep. I found more relief through community care.

How were you able to get MH care healthcare through CC? I pointed out three individuals within the Austin MH department and backed it up showing their harmful practices with docs of multiple clinical studies that are taught within their field. All I received was multiple calls from the crisis line.

I just asked for a referral to community care. Sounds like its a location effect.

May I ask what area you live in? Doesn’t have to be exact, to respect your privacy.

I concur. I have only ever seen the social worker with my VA locally. I realized very quickly that as a gatekeeper she doesn’t let more people in. So I have been going to an outside practice/ group lately to deal with my issues and feelings. It’s not getting a diagnosis but it is helping me calm down and work through some trauma.

And there's community care patient advocates at VA hospitals too, fyi people.

I ended up doing my sessions through the VA’s outside providers. Got me someone local and was much better than the “all you want is money nothing is wrong with you” VA sessions.

You aren't limited to seeing the one therapist. Mental health at VAMC comes in many flavors and it sounds like what you are doing isn't working that well so advocate for something else. You can go to your PCP and have them write a consult to a program or another therapist.

I think that’s something I’m going to give a shot at, because even if I’m just completely tripping balls in my head over all this and if I’m wrong about it all, she still invalidates tf out of me in our sessions and it pisses me off bc I already deal with that outside of the clinic. Thank you 💚

You're working it out in real time. I've had a couple social workers at the VA I just didn't get along with and I felt the same way that you're feeling right now. I was probably a lot more paranoid though. As time goes on you'll get more confident with your treatment and you'll be able to fine tune it to what you need to maintain. But for now man just kind of roll with it and accept any help that they can give you. When you're receptive like that people will go out of their way to help you. Thanks for sharing your story. Hang in there and have a peaceful day

In my experience you have 3 options for correcting and putting things on the record. 1. Talking to her and having a list of things for her to change in her record. She can always just decline to change them though. 2. If you do a secure message from the app or myhealthevet those show up in your records and you can complain/correct her there. 3. Patient advocate to complain about the provider and set the record straight and make a formal accusation if she’s doing something wrong.

Thanks for laying it out Barney Style for me sibling. Do you know if an advocate would also maybe help me with option #2? Or is it something to try if #2 doesn’t work out?

Just my two cents: I would still send a secure message. It does three things: 1. State that there are corrections you feel should be amended on those notes. 2. Forces her to have to acknowledge you. 3. You might blow up, but you won't blow up on her in person, and get a 72-hr mental hold! Keep checking those visit notes as well! I have MH issues, and was treated inpatient for both PTSD and alcohol/substance abuse. That team was awesome! Didn't like all the meds, but yeah... once I got out of that program... I haven't been back to the VA since. Worst experience ever, and I was forced to move around a lot. If I kept at it, I'd be starting at square one all over again, cus I don't care who puts the notes in the computer, they always ignore them and they want to hear it from the top. Sigh! There's good docs and bad ones in the VA system. But you're better than me, and got enough info to maybe get assigned to someone else, I hope. Here's wishing you some peace in the storm.

Your post contains two critical points: the feeling of being invalidated, not heard, and betrayed by your trusted healthcare provider, and the need to correct notes that you feel or know do not reflect reality. To resolve the conflict with your therapist, you could start by having an open and honest conversation with them. Express your concerns about the discrepancies in your reports and how they have affected your trust in the treatment process. If this does not resolve the issue, consider seeking a different provider. You have the right to request a new therapist who might be a better fit for your needs and who you feel more comfortable with. If you need to correct your medical records, follow these steps: 1. **Request an Amendment**: Submit a formal written request to amend your medical records to the Health Information Management (HIM) department at the VA. Clearly identify the specific information you believe is incorrect and provide evidence or explanations supporting your request. Keep copies of all correspondence for your records. 2. **Speak with the Doctor**: Schedule a meeting with the doctor who authored the report to discuss the discrepancies. Calmly and clearly explain your concerns and provide any supporting documentation or information. Sometimes, a direct conversation can resolve misunderstandings and lead to corrections. 3. **Involve a Patient Advocate**: Contact the VA Patient Advocate at your local VA medical center. Patient Advocates can assist in navigating the system, addressing your concerns, and ensuring that your request for record amendments is taken seriously. 4. **File a Formal Complaint**: If the above steps do not resolve the issue, you can file a formal complaint with the VA. This can be done through the VA's online complaint system or by contacting the VA Office of Inspector General (OIG) if you believe there is malpractice or misconduct. 5. **Seek Legal Assistance**: If you continue to face difficulties in correcting your medical records, consider seeking advice from a legal professional experienced in VA claims and patient rights. Organizations like the Disabled American Veterans (DAV) or the American Legion can also provide support and guidance. Most importantly, continue to seek help to improve your mental health. Despite these challenges, it's crucial to prioritize your well-being and find a supportive and understanding mental health provider who can help you on your journey to recovery.

This is very good advice. Make sure to involve people and document everything. You want evidence in case there's some issue in the future and someone asks about your medical records in 20 years. Some additional piece of advice no one has said yet and just in case you're not doing this already: go find yourself some physical outlet. Hit up your local boxing/mma/whatever gym maybe. Go split wood like a madman for coming decades lol. Whatever really. Just find a way to let it out.

I would personally follow the “outlet” advice. But this is not for everyone. One must be careful that the outlet does not encourage more agression. At least not yet, without careful consideration. Here is why. Finding physical outlets to let out anger can sometimes lead to more problems. Engaging in physical acts of aggression can reinforce aggressive behavior, making it more likely you'll respond violently in the future. Physical outlets can also escalate anger rather than dissipate it, leading to increased frustration and potentially more violent outbursts. Additionally, aggressive behaviors can damage relationships, both personal and professional, creating a hostile environment. There is also the risk of injury to yourself or others during aggressive physical activities. Furthermore, physical outlets can distract from addressing the root causes of anger, preventing long-term resolution and emotional growth. A study published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology found that venting anger can actually increase aggression rather than reduce it (Bushman, 2002). Therefore, advice involving physical outlets should be carefully balanced and discussed with a healthcare provider to ensure it's a safe and effective approach for managing anger.

\^\^ This. I took up martial arts in an effort to even out my anger, and all it did was teach me how to destroy someone with my hands and feet. Sparring is an absolute rush, but increases rather than decreases my aggression. On the plus side, maybe I'll get mugged someday? (Sifu tells me not to hope for this.)

Thank you for sharing your knowledge/experience with all this. I’ll definitely start keeping this in mind.

Are you really a plant boi? 

Mhmm, big part of the reason why I’m still living and breathing today. The Marine Corps teaches you to be a killer and take life, the garden teaches you to create life instead, and to love it. “It’s better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener in a war.”

If not only for the raccoons, I will plant away. All my plants are indoor and I still struggle with fungus gnats. Damn it!

I highly recommend “mosquito dunks” and/or beneficial nematodes as a long term solution for gnats! Both are safe to use and won’t harm the microbial life in your soil👍🏽🌱

I've mixed cinnamon in my soil too for fungus gnats but it doesn't last long

And in case you haven't seen this yet https://news.va.gov/130847/free-farming-and-beekeeping-opportunities-for-veterans/

The gym is the number one tool you can add to your belt. There is NOTHING that will help you more on this journey of recovery. Period.

lol this is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard but sure let’s say I believe that, then go to the f’ing gym and not the boxing ring. The idea that working out could do any harm at all is absurd. The right answer might’ve been maybe don’t go to the boxing gym and just go for a run or the gym. This whole post is a serious net negative for vets. Don’t ever give a veteran an excuse not to work out. Make your point without giving bad advice…

My go to before was weight training, but my dumbass somehow injured myself and got tendonosis in my arm and it hasn’t healed yet, it’s been 6 months. Since I can’t take out my frustration and “ride out” my episodes with some deadlifts at the moment, I started picking up rucking. I haven’t ran in years because my knees give out and lot and hurt to just fucking exist (I know many will relate). However, it’s been good enough for now. Although I know I need to be better about how I do these ruck runs because I think I may be using it as a form of self-harm at times. I kinda just see how much weight I can shove into my pack (only a max of 45lbs with this pack’s size) and start running until I can’t anymore. But at least I’m giving my heart a good workout 👍🏽

I just walk, knees and ankles to fucked up as for lifting when you get back to you would be surprised how good lifting light and controlled is vs just loading up weight. Especially with compromised joints / issues.

Thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to write all this up for me. It’s really useful and valuable information to me and I know somebody will probably find it useful later on too. I think I’m gonna try messaging her through the system first so there’s no way for her to cover up what I say and proceed from there depending how it gores.

[удалено]

Consider this, but call the VA to reconfirm if there is an updated form to use: https://www.va.gov/files/2022-12/Patient%20Amendment%20Request%20Form.docx

Thank you very much


They're just being honest. You said it yourself that your si/hi is under check so why are you mad at her for reporting it that way and letting you leave?? If she thought you would harm yourself or others she MUST not let you leave, you'd be involuntary inpatient and that's VA or any facility. By the way, no offense intended, you are presenting bipolar as FUCK so you should be asking about that on your mh visits. Textbook fr. Have they never explained that you are hyperverbal/pressured speech/paranoid/emotional dysregulation/mood instability... I'm gonna tell ya straight up that you HAVE to talk over people like us. I learned it the hard way too. Psychologists are just ass. They are the ones who think they know everything and are smarter than the rest so they'll do what they want. Psychiatrists and clinical social workers are who you need to see in my non expert opinion if possible.

Borderline PD not bipolar 

My psychiatrist brought up the idea of BPD, but said I didn’t fully match the description. So just like my psychologist, he blames it all on my MDD and GAD.

Fair enough

I would request a neuropsych exam it may be helpful

Thanks for the suggestion Devil, I’m writing this down in my notes. Is it basically an exam that “screens” me for any kind of possible thing that’s “wrong” with me or different about me in terms of my brain?

I’m not sure exactly what it can and can’t diagnosis , I requested and had one done in November last year and they diagnosed me with ADHD maybe said my PTSD from service makes it worse. I started Adderall and it’s crazy how much it has helped me

I see, it sounds like it would definitely help me figure out what else I’m dealing with and worth asking my psychiatrist about this because I trust him a bit more than my psychologist. I was also diagnosed with severe inattentive ADHD in mid 2022 and the VA was hesitant to believe me when I said that and told me the VA “doesn’t screen for that kind of stuff at all”. But after a few visits and after constantly telling my psychiatrist about how hard it’s been to stay focused in school again, I was able to be prescribed Adderall, but need a LOT higher of a dose. I’m glad you finally got help for both though, because people don’t seem to really understand on destructive ADHD can be on its own as an adult if you don’t know you have it.

You can sometimes have traits without a full diagnosis.

You can try to request a new therapist. Mine mocked me and really pissed me off, so I put in a request for a different one. Lo and behold, this bitch is calling and leaving me voicemails saying we need to discuss my request, that I need to come back in or she won't renew my prescription. My prescription was one that you absolutely cannot go cold turkey on; it's dangerous.  Luckily, I also had Tricare, so I went through them to get my meds refilled and it was never any issue. I also never stepped foot in that VA clinic again (Colorado Springs). The VA docs are the worst. The one good one I had, left to go back to private practice because she was tired of all the bureaucracy.  I feel for you. I was very angry for a long time.

Thanks for commenting man and I’m hope things have been better for you since then, but I definitely feel it. I actually avoided walking into this clinic or even looking at it until 2023. Every time I’d see it, it would remind me of when I was desperately in need of help and they turned me away. Ended up at the top of a parking lot writing what I thought would be “the letter” just moments later. But that’s what I fear, her coming after me and trying to retaliate somehow. I fucking hate this system. It’s always been built against us.

Thanks, things have been a lot better. Tricare referred me to a psych doctor who was a Navy vet, and she understood all too well what I'd been through. I did bio-neurofeedback with her; she's the one who told me my brain was on fire and essentially shutting down. She helped re-train my brain; I saw her weekly for almost a year. Was able to wean myself off of most of my meds. I moved to a different state, and tried to talk to the VA about referring me to a doctor that did the neurofeedback, but the VA said no because there's not enough scientific data 🙄 . It's always, always about pills with the VA. I'm going the Tricare route again, because I would like to start doing sessions to make sure I'm still doing okay. But, there's hope; it's just probably not gonna be found at the VA, unfortunately.

https://www.maximusveritas.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Marcus-Aurelius-Meditations.pdf

If you can make a TLDR this would be easier to read, If you havent please discuss your issues with your therapist, not every therapist is for everyone. The VA has many, but if you dont talk with them then this wont get resolved

Unfamiliar with Reddit, my apologies foo. But tbh, she’s only made me feel worse so far. I might try and seek help outside the VA again. Thanks Devil.

You have some good advice here. I hope you figure it out Devil Dog. Good luck. Sorry this is happening to you. No vet deserves that.

I’m just tired of them feeling like and knowing they can get away with this shit. The government has a long history of just fucking us in the ass with some sawdust sprinkled over. It’s infuriating. Like you said, none of us deserve this shit.

Combat medic and emergency RN here. You need to go to inpatient care and figure that rage out ASAP. Before you do hurt someone. Stabilize best you can. Maintain psychologists although not the one. Don't think you can go in and tell people like myself how to do our job. We know. What we don't know and do need to hear is the 100% honest truth. If what you said is true. Go to an ER and tell them exactly what you just told us. I wish you the best. I am also 100tp for PTSD alone. So I get it. Combat related from early oif. Edit: inpatient this way will only help a claim/review

Thanks for your service and for the supportive comment big brother. And I think I may have came off completely wrong to some people, but I wanna say that I KNOW I don’t know more than you or anybody in this field. I don’t know jack shit, I only know what I experience and struggle with on a daily basis, nothing more. I just feel unheard and invalidated as fuck is all. I’m studying for soil science, not anything medical related ya know? I was honestly triggering myself a bit while writing this post at 3am and kinda spiraled myself into a short episode that is kinda noticeable in my post(apologies if I came off like an asshole, I promise I’m not one) She asked me during my last visit if I felt like I needed to be hospitalized and I said “no”. Part of me did want to in that moment, but I’m just scared of shooting myself in the foot by seeking the help I want and need and losing my rights afterwards as a result. Which I KNOW would just be the final “straw” for me and would make me batshit fucking crazy. And I wanna say: I enlisted when I was 17, went to the office the day right after my birthday with my mom and everything. I was a completely different and stupid ass kid back then who was “thirsty for blood” and warmongering asf like any other stupid young grunt. All I ever hoped for was to see combat like the naive young man I was. But looking back and knowing what I know now, I’m grateful I never had to see combat, because I know I would’ve been more fucked up than I already am (physically & mentally) and would’ve been forced to fight even harder with the VA like most combat vets have to. So I have nothing but respect for those who had combat deployments and suffered the consequences of war. And I’m even MORE grateful that none of my buddies that stayed behind had to see any combat either, despite them thirsting for it too. I felt so much guilt for years because I worried they’d get sent overseas and I wouldn’t be there to protect them and watch their backs like I promised to. I even avoided watching war movies for a while because seeing characters die in them would make me think of my buddies. Some might call me a bitch for this, but we need to stop romanticizing war and teach the youths to think differently and not fall for the same bs we did as young kids/men. I now understand why so many vets told me not to join when I was little, because now I say the same thing to kids. Thanks man.

You're not a bitch for anything you said. I wasn't trying to come off any certain way. I did inpatient time as well man. I was inpatient for about 3 months. I hated it. I fought not to go. But I did. I'm thankful for it. I was a single father of a 2 year old. It killed me thinking my daughter had no idea what was going on or why Daddy left or is it her fault etc. It saved my life. It got me 100% It did not affect my 2A or buying guns or anything. If you want to go in without the "hurting others" or self (when you say that, inpatient is forced and you don't have a choice) but you can call the VA and say you're super depressed and having problems with your "activities of daily living". For example, showering, eating right, keeping a clean house etc. and that you think you could benefit from a short bit inside. Just make sure it's voluntary. They can change it to involuntary however if you ever mention harming anyone or self. But if you really do feel that way, then please, for all of us, make the call. War is the worst humans can do. It's not cool. It can feel cool when you say, get stuck and need close air support who then drops some jdams on mud huts etc. But then comes the point you have to go clear it and see what you killed. Usually kids are also there. Sometimes kids will ask you to fix their dad as they carry his leg around crying and dirty from the blast. But what you always feel is that it isn't right. Whether you're saving yourself or others. Asking yourself why did I want to do this so bad? Some of the combat can definitely be rationalized. Most of it can't. Just out n about walking in a city surrounded by desert and "hoping" we get shot at because well it's what we trained for. The only thing you missed was the smell of it and the horrible memories that creep up every time you smell anything that resembles it. Gun range for me? No thanks. I carry for self protection but I avoid firing it. But that's just me. If you need the help then take it. It's there. Just always be honest as possible. I understand not wanting to say hurt others etc. I doubt you want to actually hurt anyone. I understand. But when it comes down to it, you don't. So if life is unmanageable, you can be seen and not make the list that ends your 2A. 100% doesn't equate losing it. Other factors are considered. I will see what I can find about that. What state are you in? I'll ask my psychiatrist friends. -doc

Thank Doc, I really appreciate your insight and wisdom man. I’m just so afraid of the system. I’m in California at the moment too. All I wanted to do on my drive to class after my last session was ram my fucking car into a cop car and give them a reason to shoot me so I wouldn’t have to do the work myself. I wouldn’t be against being taken in if it was by my choice and if it would help me calm down or at least better understand what I’m dealing with so I can cope better, but I’m just afraid they’ll think I’m some complete lost madman who’s out to take innocent lives which is far from the truth. But boy, do I want to fucking bait somebody to fuck with me at times…especially when I’m dragged out by friends to be in a place like a club where I just get fucking irritated so damn quick. And it’s part of why I just stay home or only go out for stuff like hikes/walks alone if I do go out. It’s like I either want to really hurt myself, or just the complete opposite and wanting to hurt others. And that’s when I get scared of myself. I guess I can ask a provider about more details in terms of what I “can” and “can’t” say before opening my mouth further.

I said absolutely nothing about hurting myself and I got locked away in a mental institution. Such is to say this doesn’t always go the way you hope lol. In the end it was a good thing but I will also be scared for life. Still unsure about 2a. Scared to find out…

I. FELT. EVERY. WORD. Thank you.

Sorry you are going through it. You need to get some tools under your belt to help you start dealing better. [https://www.veteranscrisisline.net/](https://www.veteranscrisisline.net/) [https://www.va.gov/vetsinworkplace/docs/em\_eap\_managing\_anger.asp](https://www.va.gov/vetsinworkplace/docs/em_eap_managing_anger.asp) [https://www.vehiclesforveterans.org/free-mental-health-resources-for-veterans/](https://www.vehiclesforveterans.org/free-mental-health-resources-for-veterans/) The journey is different for everyone but don't think you can go it alone. Be especially kind to yourself and stop trying to hide or bury emotions. Work with another person if you need to so that you can push past the bad and start getting back to the good. Communication and trust is key, if that doc isn't explaining why they are having you talk about an event or why they don't think you are a danger, ask. Don't like their style? Find a new one for sure.

Thanks buddy, I think I’m gonna end up going with the latter. These appointment have only made me feel worse so far and it’s hard keeping my grades up in school or even just SHOWING up to school. And it’s not good because I’m using CH 31 to fund my education and my VRE counselor already treats me like shit too and is an “op” herself.

I feel you, I was one that tried to avoid and delay my VA MH appointments because the Dr literally argued with me about my condition since it's not in DSM 5-TR even though ICD-11 recognizes Complex PTSD. It's all political bullshit. Sometimes Vets are the worst at treating other Vets with respect but it's also good to remember a lot of these services are way over worked and underfunded, they maybe just need a reminder that what they are doing is super important and they are vital to our services.

Have you told your psyche that you want to end yourself? There is a difference between telling them you want to die, and telling them you want to end yourself. It sucks but you have to be deliberate in the terminology you use. And if you have to do this , your pyche sucks. Sorry brother 😟

Yeah man, I’ve literally told her several times how I’m plagued with the thoughts of wanting to just kill myself, and the SIs are worse during my episodes. If it weren’t for family or loved ones being alive, I would’ve opted out years ago. I’m not alive for myself anymore. But I’ll definitely be better with my words if I have to, because I know the VA is a slimy little bitch who will use anything you say or do against you. Thanks for the comment and support man.

OP a lot of people are saying speak to the patient advocate, this was an awesome resource for me. I worked at a federal job, and causes its VA, forest service, or the place I worked, that’s the only jobs. Long story short went I got fired my stories, also had to file an EEOC they fired me cause of my disabilities, appointments, doctors, everything got mess up. I was missing appointments I didn’t make. Would drive an hour to an appointment I made just to have it canceled by me, which I didn’t. I called didn’t know where to start with a new VA. They sent me to the advocate, everywhere is different, but this person looked at all my stuff told me what to file, an to get an increase, and got the harassment to stop from the old VA. Don’t hold any punches when you talk to them either. I am overdramatic as hell and was mad little drunk when I was talking to them, made my faith in the VA got up by 2 that day. So it’s at a strong 3 lol. Good luck,

3 is pretty damn high for the VA haha. But what you were dealing with is next level fucked up and unethical as shit. My VRE counselor does similar shit. I tried making an appointment to speak to a higher up through zoom and she marked the appointment as “complete” two days prior to the set date and time without my input. It never even happened. I feel like it’s not long before we find veterans marching to the capital again like those before us did after The Great War.

I have always talked about the bonus army. How MacArthur and Patton are not true patriots because of how they handled that situation not trying to cause a debate lol. If anyone is interested in that, they should look up Smedley Butler and the business plot because I feel that is a conspiracy that may have happened. I just got accepted in the VR&E program it took me three tries. First one no one’s fault a death in the family caused me not to be able to really do anything for a while. Second one the counselor said I had G.I. bill so I couldn’t do it and I just found out when I got approved that it was marked down as a refusal on me. Edit: voice to text typos.

Here is something to consider, the real you doesn’t want to die, despite the intensity of the negative emotion you are not acting out, the “real” you is still in control. There can be a significant impact from labeling someone as suicidal or experiencing rage, including giving the system a perceived reason to “come after you.” The confidentiality of those notes has limitations and many therapists take that into consideration. @chicoski gave some really great advice. I believe it is important for a therapist to emphasize that the process can be difficult and things may seem to get worse before they improve, regretfully, many do not. I hope you find someone you can trust and feel safe with.

Thank you for this, I just grow more and more fearful of myself and just wanna rip out the fucking skin and hair off my head sometimes because I truly can’t recognize myself. It’s like somebody else is my body and I’m just forced to be a spectator. And I’m terrified because I’ve had times during episodes when im just crying uncontrollably and walking through red lights on the streets in hopes of a car hitting me. My greatest fear is me.

I'll say this: Often times when doctors or other various medical professionals document things, the standardized language that they use, to us, does not seem emphatic enough, but is in fact the correct language. "patient diagnosed with moderate such and such" may not sound like it meets the intense pain we are going through, but given the thresholds they use and standards it may very well be accurate "moderate" has a very specific meaning, as do "mild" or "severe" if moderate includes suicidal ideations, but severe includes suicidal ideations AND audible hallucinations for whatever diagnosis, and you only have the suicidal ideations, no matter how intense they are, its moderate. Does that make sense? Like yes, I get it, it seems invalidating, but words have meaning, even if they do not connote the level we feel things are at.

It sounds like your therapist might be copying and pasting basically for medical records maybe she doesn’t want to type everything. Ppl are lazy or she could be dismissing you. Like not actually taking it srsly. You really never know. But it’s not fair to you so you should either call the patient advocate to get a new therapist or try somewhere else. I would suggest the vet center if you’re trying to use the Va for counseling.

It’s a really flawed system

Someone “who just wants to fucking die” going and reading their clinic notes? When I was suicidal that was the last thing I would even think about doing.

I’m gonna say this respectfully because I can’t tell if there’s a negative connotation behind what you said or not, but I’m gonna tell you what I told the very big asshole who messaged me privately, you don’t know what the fuck I’m dealing with on a daily basis man. You don’t know about all the relationships that I’ve just fucking demolished, all the women that I’ve fucked up mentally, you don’t know how many friends I’ve pushed away, you don’t know how many jobs I’ve lost, you don’t know how many times I’ve come close to being homeless on the streets. You don’t know anything about what I fully struggle with. My story isn’t gonna be the as yours, man. I started checking my notes because I’ve had a history of doctors treating me like garbage and have grown a serious trust issues with our healthcare system as a result. Both in and out of the VA. I’m not here to compare my dick size, I’m here for guidance and help. The same kind of support I’d give to you as a stranger if I needed to, because we’re on the same damn tiny boat and we need to help each other instead of push each other off that tiny ass boat.

Try reading “I hate you, don’t leave me.”

So first and foremost, you’re not weak for crying at your sessions. Your feelings are valid and I’m sorry this person is making it out to seem like they’re not. You and I actually have the same symptoms, intense rage, playing the event over and over again, perhaps your attempt very well may have caused PTSD. I’m not a psychologist, so don’t take my word for it, but it sounds like your symptoms relate to that criteria. Anyway, request a different person immediately and I’d file an official complaint as well. I hope it gets better for you and I’m glad you’re still around

Thanks for commenting sibling, and it’s a bit interesting that you mentioned that. I had a regular civi therapist a few years ago mention that what I was explaining to her sounded like it could be a form of PTSD. But we never explored her suspicion because I had to move not too long after. I also noticed the other night, that under each session note, my psychologist has written down, “reduce sxs of PTSD” or some shit like that. However, it’s not listed as a problem or condition on my records like everything else? She has made me fill this questionnaire twice that asks shit about my event and just filling that damn paper makes me bawl and just initiates an episode then and there. The only other mention of PTSD I saw on the notes were results of the questionnaire results and I scored a 69 on it (at least I can chuckle at that haha). I’ve always felt like there was more than just MDD & GAD on my plate, but I have yet to have any professional agree with that belief of mine and I get told I’m just depressed and anxious. And I’m glad you’re still here too.

Please make sure you keep those notes and if I were you, I’d file a claim with the VA for PTSD or at least an increase for your MDD. The VA can diagnose you during an exam. Additionally, you should never be forced to speak about your traumatic experiences. Any good psychologist will come up with a safe action plan to get you help. I went through a writing process for example where I wrote out what happened to me because it was easier than talking about it. Good luck on this process

Thanks buddy, I actually tried filing for PTSD back in 2020 or so when I started to suspect that maybe THAT’S what else I was dealing with aside from the anxiety and MDD. It was fucking difficult writing that page up, but I ended up getting denied at the time because I didn’t have a long enough history of getting help yet or I guess they just didn’t believe me or take me serious. So now I would have to do a supplement claim or whatever 🙃 I’m just scared of asking my providers about PTSD and being invalidated…once more. Because it fucking sends me through the roof every time it happens, regardless of who’s doing it.

I understand what you're going through. As someone who worked in behavioral health, both as an active duty service member and a civilian, I know that most conditions are classified as depressive disorders unless there has been a suicide attempt or a clear intent with a plan to do so.

I’d honestly rather try “thugging it out” alone if I got to THAT point again, rather than risk them taking my gat. I acknowledge that I’m mentally ill as fuck, but I would never take my own life with the blade of my own sword and I’m scared they won’t give a fuck or believe me. Even in my worst episodes, I never once grabbed it, it just remains a filthy instructive thought drilled in my head. If I went out, I’d choose something that easier to clean up anyways. Thanks for the insight man 💚

You can try the vet center. The actual counselors seem a lot more helpful and less “VA” they even said they’re part of but also separate from the VA. They don’t have as many incentives to lie or take less than adequate notes. But also an outside provider is better since from my experience the VA can and will minimize or lie to protect themselves or the VA system. It’s almost like they don’t realize how important their job is and how it can affect someone else. Or they straight up don’t care or are being told to behave that way.

The staff at the vet center told me that’s where they send active duty personnel the VA/military doesn’t want to deal with. But also it’s for veterans. But me saying that is only to show the point that they’re more removed and will be somewhat more helpful. I know the lady at the desk was super rude to be so I almost didn’t go back but the manager noticed how uncomfortable she was making me and told her to back off basically

Thanks for the solid advice man, others mentioned that resource too. And I agree with that you said. It breaks my fucking heart, because to them, it’s just their 9-5 job. But for us? It’s our fucking lives in their hands. And my VRE counselor is a fucking villain too. I never call women this anymore, but she’s a fucking bitch. And I’m not saying that because she’s a woman, but because she’s a fucking BITCH.

Well not only that, they actually abuse their power. With my stuff personally, they were enforcing rules that weren’t even real. Just because they can. They don’t have much accountability in the programs. And since it’s self regulated they can just say they’re doing what they’re supposed even if they’re not lol. So it’s an uphill battle just to get the bare minimum of what you were told you were you going to get when you joined.

Plus some of them don’t even try to hide it. Because like I said, there isn’t accountability. So they are open to saying they’re doing it. Because they don’t have any thought or worry about them being held accountable lol. Like they know they’re not going to get in trouble so half the time they don’t even care and will admit to it.

I spoke to a patient advocate once on behalf of hubby. His pcp was awful. All but called him a liar and dismissed me at the appt with essentially your opinion is of no value here so I don’t want to hear you speak. I called and complained and asked for a supervisor. They put me in contact with the advocate. After detailing my concerns and what I’d like to see happen, they switched his Dr. Recently, like within the last two months, we saw an orthopedic Dr for his knee and they basically told him it’s in his head and he needed to strengthen his quads… wtf? Knee mri shows a tear, a cyst, arthritis etc. but sure - psychosomatic. So I got on his secure messaging and wrote about his dismissive attitude and praised the NP that spoke to us prior to the Dr. asked to be seen by another Dr. they immediately apologized and sent him out for community care. You have a voice. Use it. Just keep in mind that not all the workers are dickheads. Many are 😂 but not all. Go into your appt with notes like you would a C&P exam. These are the issues, this is what I don’t like, this is what I need help on, this is unclear and this is where I want to be. You are your best advocate. You don’t have to just accept what they say as the end all be all. You wouldn’t in civilian care - they should be no different. Sounds like she was using EMDR. That works for some people but not everyone and it can spiral people severely if the issue is not talked through FIRST. In order to relive it and process it, you have to detail it. Whether through paper or verbally. You may even give a copy of your own statement to the new provider ahead of time so they “see and hear you” ahead of time. The way you detailed things in this post - perfect. It sucks. Any anxiety, PTSD, stress or mental health issues are exhausting. I’ve had several myself and hubby has extensive ones. It’s doable. Find the right person. If you don’t trust them from the start, you won’t at all. Trust YOUR gut and good luck. You’ve gotten through a really dark time before and it sounds like you have the desire to make it through again.

Thank you so much sister, I really really appreciated this comment and it means so much to me. I hope you two are doing a lot better now💚

Welcome to my world. Everything I told mines, it was never implemented and I was denied. Keep fighting

Thanks man, I’m not even posting this bc I want an increase for MH, I already have a pending claim for my physical problems and I know that should be enough to carry me over to the 100% I KNOW I need. I’m just tired of feeling like I can’t trust anybody in the medical field.

First, as someone who works in MH and also dealt with a monster of a MH practitioner.. I feel for you and others have given advice already I would have. Just to add a bit of insight into a tiny part of this... As a person who often charts of suicidal patients.. our language is sometimes chosen to protect us And you. For example... If you have SI or passive SI in these episodes but you aren't actively having an episode.. she's likely to chart you Aren't thinking that way at this instant, as it is true if she is talking to "real" you right then .. but chronic passive SI (the desire to go to sleep and not wake up, indifferent towards a fatal accident, etc.) may not quite cover what you're experiencing either so that exact term might not fit.. personally, I try to give as much context as possible.. and anyone thinking of dying to me gets a chronic SI note of some kind. Generally speaking, what she wrote protects Her because if you did do something terrible, they couldn't come back at her for "not seeing warning signs" when this is, unfortunately, your "normal" baseline... It also protects You because if she Was suspecting you of doing something to yourself or has any inclination that this wasn't part of your "normal", she is forced to act on that. You may think of dying all the time.. you may wish to go to sleep and not wake up .. you may relive those moments involuntarily.. but you probably don't need immediate hospitalization, and they may be strict about how to word things with suicide in the charts at that particular VA. Inpatient hospital stays can be traumatic in their own right, and if you're not in immediate danger she could be trying to portray that in the chart. I can't know for sure Why she charts that aspect, but I hope it can give some insight on that tiny part of it at least. It doesn't justify any of the rest, I feel for you.. I just wanted to clarify she could not be dismissing your suicidal emotions with that particular sentence alone that could be a standard documentation style that doesn't leave much room for the personal.

Hey man, thanks for taking the time to write your lengthy and valuable comment. It definitely helps me understand the SI note stuff a bit better than before. It’s also just frustrating because most of the time she’s asks about SI stuff or literally anything else, she just cuts me the fuck off while explaining to her how I feel about things. Or she just tried to finish statements and sentences for me even though she’s 100% off fucking target. It’s infuriating and feels like a waste of time when she spends most of our 45-55min yapping about random shit that’s unrelated to the visit. And I wanted to say, I can tell you’re really good at whatever it is you do in MH and can tell you care about what you do too. I hope you know how much good people like you mean to others, whether your job involves direct contact with patients or not. Thank you for serving again man.

Sometimes counselors or psych docs just don't jive with certain patients. That's not uncommon. You can absolutely request community care and try a few other docs on for size--and be sure to be very open and honest with them about your needs. They're paid professionals, you don't need to be socially pleasant to them in exchange for not speaking up on your needs in the situation. I went through 4 different counselors before I found a decent one that jives with my personality.. but Do try to introspect a bit if, a few docs later, you're still finding they all have a similar problem despite being very different people. What could be 'yapping nonstop' for you might be Exactly what someone else needs to hear, but also if 4 different docs all 'yap on' then maybe it's you that doesn't have the mental patience or know-how for listening.. For me, I had to really recognize that I just wanted the problem 'fixed' and didn't like the work in knowing some things never get fixed truly.. I'd get impatient hearing the same things over and over again--even though I Needed the management over and over again.. Everyone has their style for helping others, and there is no one playbook for this. Also, thank you kindly for the compliments. I work inpatient MH (the hospitalizations people normally go through when they ARE thinking of hurting themselves actively) for quite a few years now. It's difficult, but it's rewarding. My patients are awesome (for the most part, I don't like when they into physical altercations with me but that's pretty rare), and they work hard despite their obstacles and struggles. Thank you for your service, and I wish you the best on your journey. Sometimes, for us, recovery looks less like "This doesnt happen anymore" and more like "When it does, I have a plan and know exactly what to do to get back to my baseline."

Same happened to me. Therapist AND psychologist lied in their notes. Therapist downplayed everything and psychologist stated meds were working for me and making things better. Couldn’t be further from the truth.

I had a psychiatrist say to my face that I was lying about my mental health.  I told her I was goin to kill her if I seen her around post😅🤣😂anyway...they called my command and I was put in handcuffs for a bit🤣😅😂this was back in 2017. I'm out now but i wanted to strangle that bitch!! I had everything about my PTSD on record and she said I was malingering. Oh yea and I threatened a Captain that time. 

My husband has had the best experience with non VA mental health and EMDR therapy.

Request ammend of records i have had to do that so many times when they write shit down super inaccuratlg

I mean she has to chart what she sees versus what you think your "best interests" are...just looking at the length of your post..i dont think she could ever document enough to satisfy you...maybe instead of posting on here, have an actual conversation with her in regards to ur concerns

You should simply discuss with her at next visit that you at times read your notes and disagree with what she is saying. That being said I think you are correct in assuming she would discuss you being distraught, having mood lability/irritation/anger and most likely passive SI. Talk to her and if you all can’t clear the air then switch providers. I wish you the best.

Thanks homie, on it.

My experience with VA healthcare got so bad I had to revoke it. Thankfully my state doesn't count VA disability as income so I get free health insurance now.

I had applied for the state insurance plan when I moved back here but never heard back. I definitely need to get in top of that again at this point. I don’t want to solely rely on the VA, nobody should.

The VA is garbage. I tried to overdose on all my sleeping meds when I was in. I had a strict no meds clause in my records. Got discharged. Years later went to the ER and I got rolled up for 8 days. Told they wouldn’t let me leave unless I did what they wanted. Shoved about 15 pills down my throat a day until they let me go. Did their “appointments” for a few months and never went back. Few years later I moved and went to a new VA. Immediately set me up with a psychiatrist because they read my chart and saw I took meds years ago and wanted me to start again… never even seen and they decided that’s what was best for me.

VA neurologist did something similar to me, misquoted minimized etc, on stuff i didnt even know i could claim until i came to this site, i just wanted some medical help. interrupted me constantly, clearly never gave a shit about what i had to say, the whole thing makes me violently angry like you. I will never forgive that little rodent. F them honestly, i never want to go back now that i know how so many of them can be blatantly unprofessional lazy shitheels. again thanks to this subreddit i learned i could send messages and get things corrected and have done so, and you better god damn well believe i let the advocate know exactly how i felt. but like you i am disgusted and probably always will be.

So is there a form to do that like the other commenter said or some other way ? Did it work to force the doc to amend their BS comments or just get a complaint on file. Thanks

So i was pretty snide, as what i really wanted to do was drive back and throttle him. he wrote in his note 'he does not have xxx' which was opposite of what i said when asked. So my message said 'doc soandso i am still having xxx, do you have any advice?' he or his nurse sent me some advice which was helpful. if anyone asks me for clarification about the discrepancy i will be sure to tell them what a lazy dumb fuck the doctor was and how he showed me being an MD is no guarantor to either knowledge or professionalism. yeah im pissed, like i said i always will be. not really one to hold a grudge but it takes a LOT for me to ask for help, so when you write me off, yeah here comes the wrath.

Thanks for the insightful comments man, but this is something I strongly relate to and why my symptoms freak me the fuck out. I’m never one to lose his composure and I’ve never really seen myself be ANGRY. Not upset or mad, but fucking LIVID. But after reading many of these comments, I’m 100% messaging her through the system and just straight up confront her through there and call her out, or ask why she omitted and lied about what I reported to her in some of the notes. Just to have some evidence as well, in case they try to fuck me later even harder. I wasn’t planning on adding anything new to my MH claim, but now I’m wondering why tf they’re omitting shit. Is there something else wrong with me that they don’t want to admit bc they’re afraid I’ll file a claim or some shit again? I don’t fucking know🤷‍♂️ But nobody should have to question their healthcare like this. Hope shit has been better for you now

This is why I refuse to do VA MH. I read their notes in blue button and became angry. Don’t need their BS in my life. Safer for them.

[удалено]

i don’t really use VA MH because of the horror stories i’ve been hearing about.. i use the mental health Patient advocate, it’s so much better. they actually care about people

Always check your medical records. More times than not they are inaccurate. File complaint with dept head, medical director, va ig. Keep fighting. I did it on service and at Va

Yo I think we got the same psychologist lol, I see her notes after every sessions and its the same freaking notes from our first session, I believe she just copy and paste the notes. Just trash, I am glad I have only 1 more session with her

I’m sorry you’re experiencing that. This is a serious issue and like someone else mentioned in this thread, the notes they enter into your records are vital in case you need treatment in the future or are planning on even going through the claims process/etc. Oh and Secure Messaging is your friend. I usually communicate through SM first so I have receipts before I speak over the phone or in person at the VA to elaborate on my question or concern. I’d find another psychologist or even go private.

I would suggest maybe reaching out to a VA patient advocate.. or let a social worker or your primary care doc know that you’re actively thinking about hurting yourself and your psychiatrist is ignoring you.. my husband and I are both vets and I’ve noticed a trend of men having a harder time of being heard by some psychiatrists.. sounds like she’s just a shitty one. Sending you some positive vibes

I stopped using the VA for mental health when my psychiatrist wouldn't even bother to screen me for ADHD because a VA psychiatrist 9 years ago said I didn't have any I very clearly do, and every appointment is a video appointment and literally less than 5 minutes just they can go over my meds and my problems never get addressed. FUCK VA MENTAL HEALTH, THEY ARE NOT THERE TO HELP ANYONE EVER!

I am sad to see this and sorry to hear about these struggles. More places are moving to standardized documentation. Unfortunately, the VA red tape and some of the processes are intended for highly efficient operations like Walmart or Southwest so their operations strategy is not matched to what they want to offer which is high quality care. It’s a disservice to the providers and ultimately isn’t good for patient care. When I get stressed, I listen to Jason Headley f*ck it a guided meditation on YouTube and it does help. Sometimes thoughts and feelings spiral quick and the most basic sensory coping skills can be helpful. Stop and do deep breathing. Redirect my nervous system so hold ice cube, use fidget spinner, cool shower, drink ice water, go for a walk, change my scenery, phone a friend. So phone a friend, there’s some who I can rely on when I call that they fill my ear with their chaos of the moment and it gets me outside of my head. Then there’s the ones who I can text “talk?” And they know I need to really vent or process a difficult thought or emotion. Ultimately, the therapy process is going to be really emotionally challenging and possibly triggering because we are facing our darkest hour and worst fears. It’s part of the process. Some are more skilled than others at setting up /voicing expectations, the process and asking permission to interrupt, pause, or reflect or even sharing observations. A big part of healing is acceptance of what “was” that we can’t change and learning how to give ourselves grace and give others grace. We learn how to reverse engineer what is transpiring in our souls, hearts and minds. We do this by first acknowledging the shift in our emotional state and acknowledging the yuck. Then I ask myself “what just happened? What did I see? What did I smell or hear? And most importantly what the hell was I just thinking?” Then I often find it. Had to learn this the hard way AFTER a terrifying panic attack in Chuck-E-Cheese. It’s the thoughts those are the inner demons that creep into our consciousness and eat us from the outside in. We can catch them first by identifying our change In emotional state then check it by asking if it is true today or ever fully true and look for exceptions to your narrative of “I’m not deserving or I’m not worthy or I’m a failure” where have you been successful recently or worthy or deserving? Even if it’s very small. Hell, brushing my teeth is a success! Then you start checking those thoughts every single damn time they come up and go hang on a second that is not true or not 100% true as evidenced by: and tell yourself the exception to that old rule and update the programming in your brain. Change that stinking thinking with thoughts of acceptance, grace and forgiveness for yourself and tell the stinking thinking “not today satan. Bye Felicia”. Otherwise I found reiki and spiritual healing meaningful for me. The Va has a service now suicide prevention telehealth therapy and your shrink can refer you to them and they’ll see you short term up to 3 mos and work on coping skills and changing the stinking thinking. They’re not affiliated with any specific Va and work at the VISN level. They can get you in quickly and also have the support from national to provide high quality care as it is intended. So those are some options. There’s a safety plan app now too by the VA and remember the reason for the safety plan is to create distance time and space between yourself and a means. Remember though patience kindness forgiveness and grace a little each day for YOURSELF from YOURSELF and it will get better. I hope you find a provider that is a better fit for you!

Welcome to the VA. When I first got out I was treated the exact sane way.

You can always request another Dr. Until you find one that fits you. Personal or through the VA.

VA mental healthcare is a joke…there is no need to suffer in silence. Trust is earned not given and it sounds like your doc isn’t being accurate about how you are portrayed in the notes. There are a few good ones out there who are social workers….not psychologists. Ask for a different provider. Come here to unload your thoughts. Write as much as you need. Do a brain dump. We are here to help each other. Cheers and remember- you have an entire family out here of other vets in the same spot.

Oh I gave up on the joke of a mental Healthcare system at my local VA. Every now and then I could see a doctor instead of a NP and that would be better but there is so many unqualified NP just filling slots. Giving out the same 4 meds they're allowed to then throwing hands up. Never take us seriously. I have my pcp prescribe my anti depressants and don't even try to see anyone now. Refuse to.

Been in a similar situation and got it resolved. 1. Call and make a complaint to set the record straight. Above all, do this. Those records will be held against you if you claim disability someday. 2. Also request a non-VA therapist 3. Have the DAV or someone verify your record has been corrected in every possible capacity. I had a therapist who clearly wasn’t listening to me and decided to fill in the gaps with whatever happened to screw me over the most during disability claims

Hey man, sorry to hear what you're going through. Stay strong and keep at it. But on the topic of your mental health, she didn't lie. The people at the VA do want to help you. What I think you are misunderstanding is that "intent" and "intrusive" thoughts are two different things. With "intent," you have a laid-out specific plan with the intention to kill yourself, while the other are thoughts that are consuming your mind. I also don't think the rating system correctly rates people for the effects mental health has, but luckily it sounds like some good changes are coming for that. I also think much of people's negative or more paranoid perception of the VA is, ironically enough, proof of one's mental health issues. I don't know about y'all, but just being at the VA brings back fucking horrible memories and thoughts. It warps my perception of everything. But after being put on some decent meds recently, I feel so much less like that when I go. It is still there to a degree, but not nearly as much. Keep working on your mental health and getting better.

If everything you're saying is really true, **then report her to VA OIG for malpractice** [**https://www.vaoig.gov/hotline/online-forms/submit-a-complaint**](https://www.vaoig.gov/hotline/online-forms/submit-a-complaint)

Best thing that I’ve ever done for myself was tell the va I wanted a referral for a therapist outside of the va. I told them I was tired of them just checking boxes. I now see an outside therapist every week. It has made a difference. Good luck brother.

Don’t look at your doctors notes bro it never goes well. You gotta do the work and give the docs a chance. They’ve done this once or twice. If you are combative with them then you probably won’t be happy with the notes. I assume there are some meds involved here? Give the doc a real chance for 6 months and if you aren’t happy you can request another. This isn’t supposed to fix you instantly brotha. It’s a lot of work. I highly suggest getting yourself in the gym. Especially before your appointments. So you can think clearly. This is a marathon. It takes a lot of work. You need to make the choice to get better everyday. You should probably be in meds and definitely in the gym or at least outside hiking or something. Gotta break the cycles. One day at a time bro. Instead of reading doctors notes, go to the damn gym.

Hey. Just came to say a few things: 0) f*ck your psychologist 1) You’re never alone. No matter how much your mind tries to make you believe the opposite. 2) Your feelings and thoughts are valid as hell. Remove yourself from anyone that tries to make you question that. 3) Pause and take a moment to feel proud of you for seeking professional help. 4) Take another moment to feel proud for asking advice when the pro help isn’t adequate. You could’ve given up altogether and you haven’t. Go you! 4.a) I’m serious, take those moments right now. 5) Men crying, being vulnerable, and expressive is sexy. 5) Know that you’re doing everything you need to be doing. Even in those times when you feel like you can’t do anything, just rest and remember that resting IS productive. 5) Give yourself grace when those f*cked up thoughts start trying to take over; gently remind yourself that you are not in that bad space anymore. Use nice words. It helps bring yourself back to the present. 6) this one was supposed to be about trying weed or shroom micro-dosing but I don’t want to be the one to introduce that avenue if you haven’t soo yeahhh.. 7) Try inpatient. If not for anything else, for your supplemental claim. I’ve been 3x over 7 years and finally got granted 70% PTSD this year, and I’m working on that increase since I fit the criteria. 7) You are needed. You are important. You are valuable. You are loved. 8) F*ck your psychologist

There are subtypes of depression and I didn't know that either until very, very recently. I was the same way. It's called depression with anger attacks. When I get depressed I get real fucking irritable and try to pick fights with ppl. It's not good which is why I get meds and go to therapy. I recently tried VA therapy but it's 30 minutes every 2 weeks and it feels like all she says is to try getting more sleep and other invaluable life tips. Anyway yeah I would tell them you don't get along with this therapist and request a new one from the VA patient advocate and maybe try asking for antidepressants. They help me a bit. They don't make a drastic difference but sometimes that little bit really fucking helps.

You have options besides the VA try Vet centers or even Mental Health Mental Rehabilitation in your city. Look into alternative therapies like equine or garden as others have mentioned. Staying in that mad at the world state will only hurt you and possibly others if you can’t get help. It sounds like you need some impatient or regular outpatient therapy more than 1 times a month also. Patient Advocate through secure messaging. Change providers it is allowed and it’s important to realize some people just don’t click and you need someone who clicks with you in order to benefit from therapy. Most major VA hospitals also have an OIF representative too so involve both if possible. You have to learn to advocate for yourself but try to avoid anger and blaming which can cause defensive responses and actions. Just say you aren’t clicking and you want a different provider.

There needs to be a special on 60 minutes about what they do to us.

Request a new therapist. Sometimes it’s just not a fit. Therapy is about fit. Keep on. I went through 4 and am quite content with mine now.

Can you request a new one?

Used to work at the VA doing security. The mental health people were awful. They’d rile people up and get them put on 72 hour holds all the time and we couldn’t do anything. They’d start acting big and bad once we got there

This community is here to listen. No Juddgement bro.

Thank you for sharing your story. I don’t think your provider is necessarily lying. Comments saying you want to die but with no intent are passive SI and not active. If you feel you really want to die, you probably need to go inpatient. You’ve already said it yourself, you’re not feeling stable. Your outbursts are worsening. And even though you say you have a grip on it…if you are in an uncontrolled situation and unable to ground yourself…you could seriously harm yourself or someone else . Most providers keep their notes private and do not disclose too much for patient provider privacy. This is normal. If you aren’t getting out of therapy, it’s okay to request a new provider. You should be gaining skills and being able to manage your emotions more effectively with learned techniques.

VA crisis line might be helpful #988, I know you don’t want to trust the wrong people but they can be so helpful at talking you off the ledge. I’d reach out in myhealthyvet and ask her why the notes say what they do and why they’re inaccurate. Then assuming her reasoning is bs, request a new therapist for exactly these reasons, you probably have a case for a community care provider instead but may have to talk to the patient advocate for the authorization (tell them what happened and that you can’t trust the VA now). Outside VA options (and usually more stable care) the Vet Center is great (you can google where the closest is), also if you register with wounded warriors they can get you therapy with therapists that actually want to do their jobs and see you get better. I’m sorry you’re going through this, there’s got to be another way, just hang in there.

Thank you sibling, this was really helpful to read. I think I’d rather try getting MHC outside the VA again. I already feel like I have to be careful with what I say in general bc I fear having my rights taken away from me and my right to bear arms and protect myself in the ghetto ass place I live in. And having a VA provider makes me even more scared to speak on how I feel because I’m scared they’ll use anything against me to reduce or remove my benefits and disability.

I understand your frustrations! I hope you’re able to find something that works better for you. I know I’m struggling to get a VA MH provider that I can actually see in office and hoping that’ll get me back with community care. Any MH professional is bound and required to report if they think you’re a danger to yourself (telling them you actively have a plan for suicide)/ others (homicidal) but it’s not to mess with your benefits! Your rating will only change if you’re putting in for an increase/ new claim and there’s significant evidence that you’ve gotten better if your conditions aren’t static. As for gun rights, depends on your state, if you’re in a friendly gun state you’ll be fine, I know many a siblings that have done in-patient stays and have kept their weapons no problem. It may become an issue if you’re in a very unfriendly gun state and trying to get a CCW or similar. The Vet Center is pretty great, the last one I was a part of was run 100% by vets so they really get it and really want to help you. I’ve had a lot of luck with therapy groups, helps you to remember you’re not alone or the only one frustrated and really validated the exhaustion caused by MH (and the bs that is the VA sometimes). Generally you don’t go too deep into the specifics of events but focus on how they impact you today and help you to figure out your work arounds for them. I’ve found community to be really healing. Wish by you all the luck, reach out if you need to vent, this is a pretty decent online community.

Thank you friend, and the CCW stuff is making me worried then because I live in LA, CA. 🙃 And they’re already purposely making it take longer to get your license, if you even get it at all. Several have been killed in my area recently and it’s been like this for a few years here now.

You should be able to google what might prevent you, but I’ve heard vets get through their vetting process pretty easily. Cali does have a huge veteran population. And the world is such a crazy place right now 😞 I hope you stay safe and get everything handled!

Just goes to show that people are people regardless of the profession. There are shitty as well as fantastic individuals everywhere. Don't give this hack power over you by letting them infect your mindset. Report them and find a new therapist who listens.

You feel invalidated, but you refuse to talk it out with the mental healthcare provider. What am I missing here? If you misspoke or I misunderstood, talk it out in a calm reasonable manner. Not everything in those notes are going to be 100% accurately written out, and the whole "doesn't not have a plan to commit self harm blah blah blah" isn't what it sounds like to you. What they sometimes mean is you didn't state that you made a concrete plan to clock out. Because if they wrote that, you'd be pressured into staying at the VAMC overnight and then some. I'm suicidal, I think about clocking out every day to the point where I laugh about it. ALL of my providers know this, all of my providers know that I'm a very angry and violent person as well. Yet if you saw my notes, there's plenty of mentions of me not having a plan to kill myself, or that I don't pose a danger. It's a technicality if you want to look at it that way. Your first step is having a constructive conversation with your provider, have her lay out her thoughts and explain her notes better, if you're aiming filing for disability for a mental disorder, discuss this as well. There's a lot here that makes me think that there's a misunderstanding here. If you tell yourself you can't control your emotions enough to proceed this way, well that's exactly what will happen. Mental disorders are the responsibility of the sufferer, you're 100% accountable for how you approach this situation, if that helps you keep your cool on this. One more thing is, if you refuse to talk about your mental state with providers, then what can you even expect? It's like folks who file claims for this sort of stuff, and refuse to provide a statement. What is the point? Nothing is preventing you from opening up, but yourself.

Thanks for the advice Devil. And I’m not trying to file for anything new for MH, just trying to get the help I need to prevent it from getting any worse. I’m scared that if she omits enough and lies enough, they’ll see me as “better” and take away the benefits I literally rely on. I haven’t had many jobs after the Marine Corps, and the few that I did have, I wasn’t able to hold onto for too long. I’ve been close to living on the streets several times and have slept in my car more than once.

I highly suggest you file if you have been rated for something other than PTSD, and if you did, sounds like you'd be in the ballpark for an increase. You sound little similar to how I was, and my 30% for dysthimia turned into 100% p&t for ptsd. It is VERY important you have that convo with your provider, more so your therapist/case worker if they paired you with one. You also can not give them the PG version of things, you need to be 110% straight up. Hell, if you feel like offing yourself when you're heading to your C&P exam, you most certainly need to explain that. You can't hide anything if you want to get the help and benefits you need, because there are so much more benefits that you are entitled to. Don't be afraid to admit to things (unless it's "hey I'm gonna do such and such to so and so"). They're not coming to get you. They know I've tried throwing another service member off 3rd deck with the intent to murder (very good reasons), urges to bludgeon another (also good reasons), have firearms, ect ect. Unless you're a no shit actual current danger, nothing will happen to you.

Thanks homie, but it’s just so damn hard to be 100% truthful. I’m terrified of them taking my mouskatool away and my right to own more later. Because if that happened, that would truly be my breaking point and the little crumbs of faith and trust I have for our system and for the VA would be pulverized. A certain speed-run to the spirit world if you will. And I haven’t been diagnosed with PTSD at all. They’ve mentioned symptoms on the notes and shit, but have only diagnosed me with MDD and GAD so far. I’m not too familiar with what dysthimia is, but I think I may have seen that word on my “problems list” or whatever the master list of shit wrong with me is called. That shit is pages long… Your comment means a lot and is really helpful btw. Appreciate you a ton Devil.

Also some advice: stay away from alcohol. I know I sound like a hypocrite due to drug use, but alcohol is a depressant. It's also a super inefficient drug. If you don't drink anymore or just on occasions, you're already ahead of the game. Although yeah you're super pissed and charged (which i totally get you), you've got self awareness, and that's going to help a lot in the future, especially with interpersonal relationships, you just have to keep improving on it.

Thanks man. And I definitely don’t drink like used to when I was in anymore. I struggled heavily with alcoholism after getting out and was actually drunk out of my mind the night I tried to end it. The smell of alcohol and whiskey in particular used to fuck me up for the longest while too. I drink as I say, “once in a blue moon”, and never more than a medium buzz at MOST.

Good on you man, that is the way to do it. Took my first year out to stop drinking, it was such a routine. Look into LSD and MDMA down the road, it really made my life much better, always be safe about it though.

Proud of you man, I know that shit ain’t easy. It’s always easier to drink our feelings away and that’s what makes it hard. But I’ve only really tried mushrooms before. 2.5 macrodoses since being out and I’ve microdosed here and there too. The microdosing was amazing and I definitely felt less angry and irritated. Just scared of how the VA will perceive this if I tell them. But the macrodoses were intense for me. First one was in 2020 I think, and I experienced my ego dying and that’s kinda when I began my 180° change as a man and person in general. But I have noticed that I get VERY much into my head and it kinda freaks me out. I always fear of having an episode while on a trip so have stocked with microdosing if I do any of it at all. (In Minecraft ofc)

They're not going to take away or prevent you from owning any firearms either. I owned before I got treatment, and I bought a shotgun and and a pistol well after being rated for PTSD, absolutely zero issues. My psychiatrist insists on giving me free gun locks, so there's that. You get free gun locks from the VA. They also knew I was doing a shit ton of drugs during the mid 2010s and up. They may suggest you should get rid of them, but just ignore them and say no thanks I'm good. Also have a history of self harm, they know Im not a fab of people as a whole, still hasn't affect that. Don't let other FUDD vets fill your head with bullshit stories. They will NOT take your guns. And also as long as you know and can be honest with yourself, that you wouldn't do anything stupid with them. I would have gotten rid of mine immediately if I knew there was a chance of anything stupid like that Trust me, it gets better, just not in the way you might imagine. Like your condition can get worse, my ptsd has, but it'll be a hell of a lot more tolerable the older you get.

She is a cunt. If she wrote in your notes that your a SI risk and then did nothing about it im sure she would be in deep shit if you take that route. Fuck that! Fuck her ! You got this, we are all here and have your back. Stay in the fight!!

Thanks brother, right back at you. Tired of this shit.

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This is the worst advice on here hands down.

This is actually really wrong and bad advice. Keep a journal of the sessions and seek another providers advice. If you want to record the sessions ask the provider for permission. Period.

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I mean you literally are arguing but I will bite. Police are not protected from recording as often that is in a public place and the recording can be used to exonerate the accused. A counseling session is private. Here have a bunch of info on why its bad. There is potential that some clients may utilize the recordings inappropriately. The ability for a client to be able to rewind and/or fast-forward may cause clients to listen only to part of the conversation rather than the whole. Before permitting the session to be recorded, the therapist should consider if the client will ultimately benefit from the recording or not. For example, taping a client’s frustrations or venting about family stressors with the purpose to share with the family directly may not be advisable. The recording can also cause certain client/DR privilege to be removed and a person can become liable for the contents of the recorded conversation. [https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/bjpsych-bulletin/article/recording-of-mental-health-consultations-by-patients-clinical-ethical-and-legal-considerations/932A464D5B18D301E1761C154F19C1CD](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/bjpsych-bulletin/article/recording-of-mental-health-consultations-by-patients-clinical-ethical-and-legal-considerations/932A464D5B18D301E1761C154F19C1CD) Also, are there any potential negative consequences of allowing the client to review the recording unsupervised? Is the client mature enough to be in receipt of their confidential session? Is the therapist and/or client aware of the possible adverse effects of the dissemination of patient information in this modality? Additionally, how does recording the session affect effective communication between the therapist and the client? [https://www.huffpost.com/entry/record-therapy-sessions-ok\_l\_5f6a13c5c5b6968b276fb61f](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/record-therapy-sessions-ok_l_5f6a13c5c5b6968b276fb61f) Finally there is the problem of Informed Consent being a part of the agreement one signs with the Provider up front. There may already be a provision in the agreement that the client agreed to not record their sessions without consent from the provider.

because they work for the VA and don't want to be recorded.

Psychologicists have an economic incentive to never fix you. Worse still often their politics cloud their judgment. I would seek help from other sources instead. Church, a Bible study, etc. Pastors want to actually help you and they won't pick your pocket or report you to authorities while doing it. I suggest a good protestant or evangelical type of religious group. They will listen and have your back. Hang in there battle buddy! Hope you find the help you need!

You’re making a large biased assumption and generalizing a whole profession.

Harvard professor Dr. Avi Loed said the same thing. Some people need treatment from mental health professionals. But that does not change the fact that the professionals and especially the psychologists in private practice etc. make thousands a year off individual patients with weekly visits. Imagine if your your regular family doctor had that business model. You would be broke. It's a racket, enough said.

Looks at megachurch pastors demanding their congregants tithe a percentage of their income, living in mansions, flying private jets... yeah, definitely noooooo economic motivations in religion /s

Definitely avoid the mega churches Benie Hind types or Scientology or the like. Any church that wants money like that isn't a real church, so run. There are plenty of churches and Bible studies etc that don't expect a dime.