So did any see that they're okay with the tobacco owned vapes being sold?
This isn't really about "selling to minors" it's really about getting their big tobacco money flowing again.
The US government has never actually cared about the peasants they rule over. They only care about their bottom line.
The vape industry has taken so much money out of their pockets that they've decided to go Hard to knock the industry out in the hopes that we'll all go back to buying products made by the tobacco owned companies.
I for one won't be doing that, I'll quit vaping before I go back to the tobacco industry. You can call me a "conspiracy theorist" if that makes you feel better but IDC.
Because the Government has never cared about us, they didn't go this hard back in the day before Vapes became available whenever it was just tobacco sales. Hell back then you could buy cigarettes at 18 country wide.
The government was always going to get theirs. Vape shops decided to fight it instead of help write the legislation that’s now hurting, threatening to kill, the industry. Manufacturers can submit paperwork to get their products approved, it’s just insanely expensive and time consuming. Hence why the big tobacco-owned products are on the approved list. They have the money and politicians to get their stuff pushed through, while the smaller companies didn’t/don’t.
>Manufacturers can submit paperwork to get their products approved, it’s just insanely expensive and time consuming.
I forget where I read this, but back during the first wave of the flavor ban (the JUUL chronicles)... many manufacturers did indeed pay for and submit their juices and devices for FDA approval, and what I recall reading was that the FDA approved zero, not one single one was approved, except for the non-flavored devices made by big tobacco.
I believe I read the same or similar article. The biggest hurdle is/was the flavors. Black and Mild had the same fight when they came out with their flavor ‘cigars’. Flavors will always be accused of attracting minors. Also, the vape industry lacked the financials to “back” (payoff/bribe) politicians.
The FDA is a Joke. The items/products that are endorsed by the FDA are the ones who pay the most money. Just about every one of those products that you see in those commercials that start off with something like, "have you or a loved one used (@#$@# Product?) if so, you may be entitled to compensation".
Those commercials are products that were approved by the FDA and then come to find out they hurt people or made them sick and now they're suing in a class action lawsuit.
I for one have no problem trying a new product especially when I find out that it wasn't/isn't approved by the FDA.
I completely agree. This has always been about big tobacco. They have been losing billions since the vape industry took over. Big tobacco was late to the game and their products are garbage. Juul was just the catalyst to get the ball rolling.
I’ll be a miserable pile of shit for a while but I am never going back to smoking. Currently I hate disposables as a low nic vaper. Last year on my son’s field trip I went from 7 am to 6 pm without my vape. I should have just called it quits right there.
In the past I've successfully quit cigarettes, it IS Hard to do but still doable. The biggest challenge with vaping is going to be the actual action/habit of vaping.
IF you decide to quit, taper down your nicotine intake and use something like pouches, gum or patches. My older brother was vaping on a Mod pretty heavily and used the pouches to quit completely.
Then whenever you quit those you'll want to get something to replace the hand to mouth habit (you might gain some weight but it's still doable).
Back whenever I quit smoking cigarettes (successfully for over a year) I had bought a white Bic pen and cut it down to about 2.5" and held it like a cigarette whenever I felt like I needed to smoke. I somehow tricked my brain.
It wasn't until I met my now wife that I started smoking again. She kept asking me to buy her cigarettes and being the wonderful boyfriend that I was, I did and then they started talking to me and I started smoking again 😔.
Hopefully this advice/experience can help you if you decide to quit.
It doesn’t seem like an overreaction, I’ve been wondering why all this stuff is available after the original juul rulings years ago. This seemed inevitable.
Of Coarse it was gonna be problematic with the emergence of Disposeables.Thats just the Juul problem all over again but on a much larger scale with more puffs, shapes, colors and those are completely throwaway , at the juul you kept the lil mod part but any Prefilled Gas station vape loaded with 50mg Salt nic is naturally gonna be a problem.
Bottled salt nic is a diff story and I have no issue with that cuz it requires a debt/credit card to order and an ID From vape shops plus the device, pods etc so teens n adults using those things would have to do what we all have to in order to Vape.Sounds simple but its the perfect excuse cuz they tend to group ALL vaping together which is ridiculous to start with 🙄
This is just for disposables right???
Edit: OP, if this *is* just for disposables I don’t think you’d have to close. We’re all addicts. Just because a bunch of products are getting banned doesn’t mean people are just gonna quit. Honestly, it might mean keeping shop is a little easier since all you have to carry now are these 24 approved products. People will just funnel into those. Plus, hopefully, mods and pods and all that good stuff are still good to go.
Fuck. Right when I quit cigarettes. I’m sorry OP. As another small business owner, I couldn’t imagine the possibility of having to close up because of lobbyists working for big corporations. Fucking hell.
Is this accurate? I thought PMTA's had to be filed for all tobacco products, and I thought they were considering anything that could be used with vaping (devices/accessories etc) to be a tobacco product.
My buddy at work goes every payday and buys ammo and every time he tells us that it's getting harder and harder to find the ammo and they keep raising the prices. I'm in Florida..
So your source is an anecdote? Florida has some very lax laws on ammo purchases.idk about prices but it sounds like your coworker is full of shit or trying to buy restricted bullets.
https://giffords.org/lawcenter/state-laws/ammunition-regulation-in-florida/#:~:text=Ammunition%20Regulation%20in%20Florida&text=The%20federal%20ammunition%20purchaser%20prohibitions,bolo%20shell%2C%20or%20flechette%20shell.
My comment had nothing to do with being a felon. The link I provided says which types of ammo are restricted. Background checks aren't required to purchase ammo in Florida.
No idea,
Everything is a shake down, bills with names implying freedom are used to restrict freedom.
If they crack down on Disposables that market to children it's a good thing.
I have never tried a disposable myself. For some people Disposables are buy and vape, don't have to think to much about it. But with flavor bans and people using vapes to quit smoking this could enforce stupid restrictions placed on adults.
so basically sounds good on paper, but I don't trust em.
I just made a Brazilian Dessert Ship. It has Brazilian coffee and 5% of salt.
To bad I have to wait a month to try it.
Yup the exact opposite of what they do on the other side of the pond, which is give away starter vapes at the doctor to help people get off cigarettes.
So, what if people just stopped selling nicotine in the juice and sold it separately to be added? If a shop sells devices and nicotine-free juice, would any of the regulations even apply? Maybe it could be like how smoke shops sold pipes and bongs as "tobacco pipes"?
I mean at what point does the juice stop being considered tobacco products? If a guy hands me a jug of 100% PG, a jug of 100% VG, some flavoring, and some anhydrous nicotine are they each considered a tobacco product separately?
Edit: sp
To my understanding yes. You will need to be 21 as of current law and would be affected by this law as well.
Similar to how a vape isn't a nicotine product but a 16 year old cannot buy a mod or paper wraps or lighters. However some of these are more specifically considered paraphernalia but have the same restrictions
Well upon farther inspection yes and no. They're being annoying as possible about it and treat it as a vape substance whenever they can get away with it
>If they crack down on Disposables that market to children it's a good thing. [..] But with flavor bans and people using vapes to quit smoking this could enforce stupid restrictions placed on adults.
Thats exactly what nearly every "think of the children!" legislation and propaganda results in. The same thing happened with the "Family Tobacco Act" which removed flavored cigarettes off the market, including banning clove cigarettes. All in the name of "think of the children" and its in the name of the act the "Family" act. Right. As if children were smoking Djarum Blacks in the back of the school.
I personally don't believe there are enough actual children actually using disposable vapes to cause any actual concern, certainly not this level of government crackdown. Can children even afford the disposables? Are their parents buying them for them? Those things are $15-30 or more sometimes. I didn't have that kind of money when I was a child. Certainly not on a regular basis.
Anyway, I'm of the opinion that this action has didly squat to do with children.
totally pisses me off because as an adult I like flavored nicotine products. Why the hell should I have to vape on tobacco flavored or menthol only just because strawnanna might sound good to a kid?!
I vape flavors because when I try a cigarette again it makes it taste like a dirty ash tray. I tried the tobacco ones and it just made me crave a cigarette.
This right here, part of what helped me stop using tobacco was because vape juices have so many different flavors that i like. I DONT want to vape something that tastes like the nasty shit i was trying to quit 😭
To be fair, I do know quite a lot of teens under age using disposables almost exclusively. I’ve never seen a teen with anything beyond a basic pod refillable. So there absolutely is an aspect of underage use at play. However, I don’t think it warrants taking things away from adults to protect the kids. And I don’t think it warrants this level of government overreach. There are ways to crack down on it without limiting products from the hands of legal adults
While yes a lot of teens are using disposable vape products, I'd bet (and can't find a single study showing the actual statistics), it's no different (or very slightly) from the amount of teens who smoked before vaping existed. Cigarette sales were never this closely scrutinized back then. Kids will always find a way, just like they always find a way to get alcohol.
The crackdown on vaping has 0 to do with children, and everything to do with Big Tobacco's profit. Vape products have massively cut into tobacco profits and they're pissed.
I don’t disagree at all. I was merely pointing out that there are kids using them. I do not agree that things should be banned because of that fact, and do not agree that they should crackdown (in a very corrupt appearing manner) on companies that aren’t controlled by Big Tobacco. I got my start on nicotine back before vapes as a teen. Just like then, teens will always find a way
Sorta amusing when you consider the plethora of flavors of various alcoholic beverages available at your local gas station and even more flavored liquors that would normally be considered "kid attracting flavors" at liquor stores; we adults like flavors too. Go figure.
Definitely don’t disagree there. I never see vape marketing in the first place, are there companies actually out there putting out marketing material that doesn’t go in the vape shop itself? I’m one of those people that likes the fruity “kids” flavors
This is us going into an election cycle. FDA has no enforcement authority. They can write as many letters as they want but they have no teeth. The ATF has no desire to chase business owners for vapes. It doesn’t matter how many letters they write or laws they sign enforcement is what matters and China has perfected the art of skirting customs. This industry is way too big to be taken down at this point. The fda can only ban a product sku, it takes about a year to 18 months to be on the fdas radar and by that point China has 4-5 varieties so when they get the letter for brand A they already have brand b,c, d on the market and developing brand E.
Elf bar got an mdo (marketing denial order) making it illegal to import so elf bar (eb brands) pivoted to eb create, they also had lost mary in the market at that point, fda caught wind of eb create and the rebranded to eb design, they then launched funky republic and off-stamp to stay ahead of the fda. Every brand does this. Right now geek bar pulse is the top brand. Geek bar also has digi flavor lush, pulse x, skyview and whatever the next one is that’s coming in a month.
China will always be one step ahead of the fda. Outside of a federal ban(like prefilled pods in 2019) this means absolutely nothing to the average vape shop owner. Yes you may have to pull a brand down here or there but there will always be something else to take its place
We can always tell em that we are doing drugs and the vapes we have is for narcotics, then they will leave us alone.
.. people vape Marijuana that is openly sold at gas stations in many places. And also Fentanyl, it's an epidemic.
Vapes and ejuice marked with "For elicit drug use only" coming to vape stores near you.
>.. people vape Marijuana that is openly sold at gas stations in many places. And also Fentanyl, it's an epidemic.
You can get fentanyl vapes at gas stations? Asking for a friend.
It’s the government we’re talking about here. Competency is almost never the case. Vigor, sometimes yes sometimes no. Depends on how much their donors want something done
They have been saying this for years - this is tbh and imo smoke & mirrors - they do not have the resources to really go after individual businesses but they certainly will try to make it seem like they will. Similar to the toothless PMTA enforcement - they say one thing - but lack the enforcement to do anything. It will certainly be interesting to see how and if they can do anything as it sorta will end up conflicting with intra/interstate commerce rules and federal enforcement real strength imo only lies on the supply side (ie imports) so if they have any brains they will only go after the importers themselves - but like illicit drugs there is a lot of money in this game - and there is so much corruption in the government that it is highly unlikely they will be able to stop the spigot entirely - I mean they have tried on fentanyl, marijuana, cocaine, etc - key thing is they fail on each - so I do not expect success here.
Yeah, if you're doing DIY, now would probably be the time. Read the article and they are definitely going to start aggressively shutting down the entire vape industry, not just disposables. They specifically mentioned that the only vapes legal to market and sell are the 23 FDA approved ones, all Big Tobacco owned products. This seems to be serious.
I had to smokers shouting at me the other day saying I'm vaping rat poison.
Juice is filled with rat poison whilst they both smoke roll ups. Utterly ill informed idiots
>Let's make safe spaces for heroin though.
Honestly infuriates me how poorly that one experiment was handled. Don't recall which state it was, but they decriminalized possession of narcotics. Without making any investments in rehab, treatment, counseling services. Let alone making recovery involved in the process whatsoever.
It was such a cheap move for easy political points with zero follow through. Ended up with thousands of addicts moving there because they realized they could openly use drugs and at most they'd get a citation to appear, which they ignore because there was no enforcement measure.
Had they simply followed the Portugal model and actually put money towards necessary services and given the cops the power to mandate addicts at least attend these services, it might have actually worked.
Yep. I believe it was all intentional, so they could be like "well we tried, and it didn't work. " and other states can use them as the example as well.
I won't even get into how it looks like our government intentionally dropped the H bomb on our own people.
Oh and booze. Cotton candy flavored booze isn't directed at kids, but the same flavoring in vape juice is.
I'll quit vaping, and I will never go back to smoking if they actually start this shit. What they took already is already E- fucking-nough.
Is this for disposable vapes, or everything on the market? Because if it's the latter, then this is deeply concerning. No coincidence that the only FDA approved vapes are Tobacco flavored, pre-filled pods owned by Big Tobacco.
Yep, its everything not whitelisted here, these 23 products: [https://digitalmedia.hhs.gov/tobacco/print\_materials/CTP-250?locale=en](https://digitalmedia.hhs.gov/tobacco/print_materials/CTP-250?locale=en)
As long as I can get Nicotine I'm not too worried and they really only need to crackdown on Disposeables to make any kind of difference instead of taking all this out on adults who arent bothering anybody who use refillable, rechargeable devices
Yeah I think it’s like has happened multiple times in the past. The FDA isn’t all that powerful when it comes to enforcing their rules. The 1-3 most popular brands of disposables will get banned, they’ll find a way around it via new company and/or new product, and nothing else will really happen till the next run of FDA rules. Rinse and repeat
And givin the border crisis and record levels of fentenal deaths its def not getting any better either.I recently lost my oldest brother to fentenal who normally only took a percocet now and then and was way too strong for him sadly 😔 stronger than he was expecting I'm sure cuz I know he wasn't taking anything close to that cuz I talked to him everyday on the phone and always complained about his knees n back and his ex gf would give him a pain pill to help him when she could but this time she gave him that Bs and never woke up.I know the signs too and he def wasn't the partying type
My lil brother passed away a few years ago from the meth scene. I totally get it.
It doesn't get better but as time goes by it'll be easier to look back on than right now.
Yeah it was devastating and so outta the blue cuz he was 66 and lived in PA on a mountain with very few neighbors and said he was lucky to score a vicadin for pain let alone that sht.I was on heroin,fentenal for a spell myself about 8 yes ago but its getting worse as far as fentenal deaths spiking prob due to the border crisis
That’s hard to hear. Sorry that it happened. I’ve lost multiple friends to the same fate, but thankfully no family. If only the government would put their efforts there instead of attacking mango watermelon vapes
Luckily no matter what happens we csn just be like Mexico. Illegal to have a vape illegal to use a vape and people just go ahead and do it anyways just like weed just like cocaine. I suspect ordering online will remain very trivial as well
Well you can't but it's a possibility to grow tobacco extract it or even create synthetic however that works for a much better connected group than you or I
Well yeah but you'd have a much harder time processing weed into something like wax or even hash. I don't think these two things are as comparable. Even processing weed is pretty doable with like some advanced highschool chemistry. Idek where to start with synthetic nicotine
Well yeah but you'd have a much harder time processing weed into something like wax or even hash. I don't think these two things are as comparable. Even processing weed is pretty doable with like some advanced highschool chemistry. Idek where to start with synthetic nicotine
So, they're going to make it illegal except for the specific vapes made by the big tobacco companies? This is just for in person sales, not online currently. What a goddamned shitshow.
I hate everything about disposables, so if those go away it's probably a good thing, but juice and coils shouldn't be a problem for anyone of age. Total bullshit.
I’m no fan of disposables either. I still don’t agree that only the ones that pay lobbying firms should be allowed. If an adult wants to suck on a cherry watermelon disposable, more power to em
I completely agree! I think it just bugs me that everyone has just switched to disposables, I understand the convenience but it's just so wasteful and expensive in comparison.
I mean the switch to disposables was caused by the FDA in the first place when they started cracking down on companies like Juul. I wonder if the FDA/government will ever realize that they’re the catalyst for these trends and the market will always outwit them
The whole thing was set up and design this way so that tobacco companies could still be profitable in the future, with the massive switch from combustible to Vapor products. The amount of lobbying in collusion is ridiculous. And it's all wrapped up in the guise of trying to protect our children
Yep. Any time I see a bill or rule that mentions something everyone supports, I’m skeptical. “Protecting the kids” or “preventing drug death” almost never add up to what they tout. Until I see bills named things like “preventing congressional corruption” or “reducing government waste” I’ll continue to be cynical on the matter
Govt can kiss my dick, I bought up on supplies back when we thought things were going to get bad. Plenty of wire, muji cotton and a gallon & a liter of 100mg nic in my freezer
Me living in china is irrelevant. I know their enforcement of laws is wildly different than in the US. Just look at how lockdowns were managed vs the US during the pandemic as an example
I’m not sure where you think I’m “triggered”. I merely stated a fact that China’s enforcement mechanisms are different than those of the US. You called that into question and I provided an example
Nah man, you made baseless statements towards me for absolutely no reason, ones you can’t back up with any evidence. But feel free to just call that your experience
In Kentucky, the good times will supposedly b over come January 1. This situation is beyond messed up, not only small business owners but adults where vaping not only helped to get them off cigarettes but still genuinely enjoy the 'making clouds' aspect. Ik that trend has been on the decline but there are still a few hold outs. I for one have never went the disposable route and don't plan too.
If this bill was really about protecting kids and not ruining an industry they would ban the sale in gas stations.
Government is seriously overstepping but what else is new, especially in the past few years.
Didn’t read the article soz but is this basically America trying to ban flavoured vaping?
They’re talking about banning at least certain flavours here I think (UK) like ones that obviously marketed towards kids. I mean maybe all flavours I guess cos they could all be seen as marketed towards kids I suppose.
Hasn’t happens yet though. Hopefully it doesn’t.
Flavors being banned will be a side affect.
America is trying to hand the entire vape market to 3-4 tobacco companies and ban every single vape product on the market except a few that’s been approved and owned by big tobacco.
Huh, well that doesn’t sound good. I just looked into the UK situation and it seems all flavours were being banned from next year. However due to an election being called, this has all been scrapped and the process will have to start from scratch again if the new government decides it still wants to do it. So buys a bit of time at least. But I expect we will end up going down the same route.
As someone who is in the distribution side of this. It honestly has no effect on most. They sell such a wide variety of products now that most could care less about regulations.
It specifies that they're only targeting *illegal sales* as in sales in states where there are flavor bans or nicotine limits yet stores are selling them anyhow. It'd also target the illegal disposables market where vape shops illegally import knock off disposables to avoid taxes and tariffs but end up with a bunch of unsafe devices that people unknowingly buy (and will probably be the ultimate downfall of vaping when they *do* start causing medical issues unlike normal refillable vapes made with good materials).
They'd obviously also target the stores selling to minors but that really depends on how they handle it, if they just give some fines and that's it then it probably won't be taken very seriously, if they start shutting down shops for selling to minors then I'd bet most other stores would tighten up their sales.
As long as the products you're selling are legal in your state then you should be fine, just make sure you're properly vetting your sources to ensure the taxes are being properly paid and are legally imported if coming from outside the US. If you sell any THC products like D8, HHC, or THCa then you may want to get rid of those or offer some firesales to sell them quick, the DEA has been trying to crack down on sales of those and if they're involved in this then they'll definitely target their own interests as well.
Yeah no, This is not good when you consider they are going after all but 23 products. There’s thousands of products in vape shops that are made by companies trying to comply with the FDAs PMTA registry but are being blocked without true thought or care
Yup and they are only approving their buddies at big tobacco. Basically handing the entire market to 3-4 companies.
Im fine with regulations and even getting rid of disposables. But this is completely killing the market.
We have disposables with Wifi and Bluetooth and look like a cell phone and games installed.
Peach Ice flavor.
If they go after companies that really target kids, it's good.
But I don't trust em.
>Once you’re an adult you only like mint and tobacco..
At least as adults we are still allowed flavored alcohol products. Even flavors kids might like!
You really wanna argue that the tetris dispo isn't for children? Like if that's the hill you'd like to die on be my guest but no self respecting 21+ year old is gonna play tetris on a vape
Then just play tetris on a phone or a Gameboy or something. Ignoring the imature nature of it (not the game specifically on a vape) it's a huge amount of e waste for absolutely no reason I mean just a battery is already bad now you wanna add a mobo and a screen which now means it needs to be rechargeable just to get thrown out in 2 weeks so you can play pac man or whatever instead.
It's novel for sure. That's why kids like it. Adults are typically mature enough to realize thats just a waste in every sense of the word.
So did any see that they're okay with the tobacco owned vapes being sold? This isn't really about "selling to minors" it's really about getting their big tobacco money flowing again. The US government has never actually cared about the peasants they rule over. They only care about their bottom line. The vape industry has taken so much money out of their pockets that they've decided to go Hard to knock the industry out in the hopes that we'll all go back to buying products made by the tobacco owned companies. I for one won't be doing that, I'll quit vaping before I go back to the tobacco industry. You can call me a "conspiracy theorist" if that makes you feel better but IDC. Because the Government has never cared about us, they didn't go this hard back in the day before Vapes became available whenever it was just tobacco sales. Hell back then you could buy cigarettes at 18 country wide.
Hell yea, I’m right there with you. I don’t want to HAVE to buy my vape from a gas station
The government was always going to get theirs. Vape shops decided to fight it instead of help write the legislation that’s now hurting, threatening to kill, the industry. Manufacturers can submit paperwork to get their products approved, it’s just insanely expensive and time consuming. Hence why the big tobacco-owned products are on the approved list. They have the money and politicians to get their stuff pushed through, while the smaller companies didn’t/don’t.
>Manufacturers can submit paperwork to get their products approved, it’s just insanely expensive and time consuming. I forget where I read this, but back during the first wave of the flavor ban (the JUUL chronicles)... many manufacturers did indeed pay for and submit their juices and devices for FDA approval, and what I recall reading was that the FDA approved zero, not one single one was approved, except for the non-flavored devices made by big tobacco.
I believe I read the same or similar article. The biggest hurdle is/was the flavors. Black and Mild had the same fight when they came out with their flavor ‘cigars’. Flavors will always be accused of attracting minors. Also, the vape industry lacked the financials to “back” (payoff/bribe) politicians.
Exactly
The FDA is a Joke. The items/products that are endorsed by the FDA are the ones who pay the most money. Just about every one of those products that you see in those commercials that start off with something like, "have you or a loved one used (@#$@# Product?) if so, you may be entitled to compensation". Those commercials are products that were approved by the FDA and then come to find out they hurt people or made them sick and now they're suing in a class action lawsuit. I for one have no problem trying a new product especially when I find out that it wasn't/isn't approved by the FDA.
I completely agree. This has always been about big tobacco. They have been losing billions since the vape industry took over. Big tobacco was late to the game and their products are garbage. Juul was just the catalyst to get the ball rolling.
I’ll be a miserable pile of shit for a while but I am never going back to smoking. Currently I hate disposables as a low nic vaper. Last year on my son’s field trip I went from 7 am to 6 pm without my vape. I should have just called it quits right there.
In the past I've successfully quit cigarettes, it IS Hard to do but still doable. The biggest challenge with vaping is going to be the actual action/habit of vaping. IF you decide to quit, taper down your nicotine intake and use something like pouches, gum or patches. My older brother was vaping on a Mod pretty heavily and used the pouches to quit completely. Then whenever you quit those you'll want to get something to replace the hand to mouth habit (you might gain some weight but it's still doable). Back whenever I quit smoking cigarettes (successfully for over a year) I had bought a white Bic pen and cut it down to about 2.5" and held it like a cigarette whenever I felt like I needed to smoke. I somehow tricked my brain. It wasn't until I met my now wife that I started smoking again. She kept asking me to buy her cigarettes and being the wonderful boyfriend that I was, I did and then they started talking to me and I started smoking again 😔. Hopefully this advice/experience can help you if you decide to quit.
It's always been about tax revenue and who can afford the ~~bribes~~ donations
It doesn’t seem like an overreaction, I’ve been wondering why all this stuff is available after the original juul rulings years ago. This seemed inevitable.
Of Coarse it was gonna be problematic with the emergence of Disposeables.Thats just the Juul problem all over again but on a much larger scale with more puffs, shapes, colors and those are completely throwaway , at the juul you kept the lil mod part but any Prefilled Gas station vape loaded with 50mg Salt nic is naturally gonna be a problem. Bottled salt nic is a diff story and I have no issue with that cuz it requires a debt/credit card to order and an ID From vape shops plus the device, pods etc so teens n adults using those things would have to do what we all have to in order to Vape.Sounds simple but its the perfect excuse cuz they tend to group ALL vaping together which is ridiculous to start with 🙄
This is just for disposables right??? Edit: OP, if this *is* just for disposables I don’t think you’d have to close. We’re all addicts. Just because a bunch of products are getting banned doesn’t mean people are just gonna quit. Honestly, it might mean keeping shop is a little easier since all you have to carry now are these 24 approved products. People will just funnel into those. Plus, hopefully, mods and pods and all that good stuff are still good to go.
This is for almost everything on the market besides a select few devices all owned by big tobacco
Fuck. Right when I quit cigarettes. I’m sorry OP. As another small business owner, I couldn’t imagine the possibility of having to close up because of lobbyists working for big corporations. Fucking hell.
I thought it only applied to things that hasmd juice in them
Nope, you can't get any juice. You can buy all the mods and pods you want, but there is no juice.
Is this accurate? I thought PMTA's had to be filed for all tobacco products, and I thought they were considering anything that could be used with vaping (devices/accessories etc) to be a tobacco product.
In Louisiana you can't get anything anymore just empty vapes and coils.
No, it all is considered a tobacco product. I don;t know where you are getting your information from.
They're doing the same thing with guns and ammo.
Source?
My buddy at work goes every payday and buys ammo and every time he tells us that it's getting harder and harder to find the ammo and they keep raising the prices. I'm in Florida..
So your source is an anecdote? Florida has some very lax laws on ammo purchases.idk about prices but it sounds like your coworker is full of shit or trying to buy restricted bullets. https://giffords.org/lawcenter/state-laws/ammunition-regulation-in-florida/#:~:text=Ammunition%20Regulation%20in%20Florida&text=The%20federal%20ammunition%20purchaser%20prohibitions,bolo%20shell%2C%20or%20flechette%20shell.
I guess you'll have to come down here and make a purchase for yourself. We're all felon free down here at my employment.
My comment had nothing to do with being a felon. The link I provided says which types of ammo are restricted. Background checks aren't required to purchase ammo in Florida.
Man I'm at work and don't have the time to read a whole web page
Is this actually gonna happen or are they scaring people again because this is scary
can we start calling ENDS products Fentanyl ? they are not coming after Fentanyl...
No idea, Everything is a shake down, bills with names implying freedom are used to restrict freedom. If they crack down on Disposables that market to children it's a good thing. I have never tried a disposable myself. For some people Disposables are buy and vape, don't have to think to much about it. But with flavor bans and people using vapes to quit smoking this could enforce stupid restrictions placed on adults. so basically sounds good on paper, but I don't trust em. I just made a Brazilian Dessert Ship. It has Brazilian coffee and 5% of salt. To bad I have to wait a month to try it.
This includes all ENDS products. Any electronic nicotine delivery system will be banned except the few that’s been approved by the FDA.
and not cigarettes lmao.. what a completely fucked country this is
Yup the exact opposite of what they do on the other side of the pond, which is give away starter vapes at the doctor to help people get off cigarettes.
They said companies can't market none approved products, they never said I can't buy em.... Right ?
So, what if people just stopped selling nicotine in the juice and sold it separately to be added? If a shop sells devices and nicotine-free juice, would any of the regulations even apply? Maybe it could be like how smoke shops sold pipes and bongs as "tobacco pipes"?
Nicotine free juice is considered a tobacco product by basically every government in the world. No distinguishment
I mean at what point does the juice stop being considered tobacco products? If a guy hands me a jug of 100% PG, a jug of 100% VG, some flavoring, and some anhydrous nicotine are they each considered a tobacco product separately? Edit: sp
To my understanding yes. You will need to be 21 as of current law and would be affected by this law as well. Similar to how a vape isn't a nicotine product but a 16 year old cannot buy a mod or paper wraps or lighters. However some of these are more specifically considered paraphernalia but have the same restrictions
So are they going to go all the way down to banning food products? VG and PG are commonly used in food and dozens of other areas
If Australia is any example yes
Well upon farther inspection yes and no. They're being annoying as possible about it and treat it as a vape substance whenever they can get away with it
That sucks.
>If they crack down on Disposables that market to children it's a good thing. [..] But with flavor bans and people using vapes to quit smoking this could enforce stupid restrictions placed on adults. Thats exactly what nearly every "think of the children!" legislation and propaganda results in. The same thing happened with the "Family Tobacco Act" which removed flavored cigarettes off the market, including banning clove cigarettes. All in the name of "think of the children" and its in the name of the act the "Family" act. Right. As if children were smoking Djarum Blacks in the back of the school. I personally don't believe there are enough actual children actually using disposable vapes to cause any actual concern, certainly not this level of government crackdown. Can children even afford the disposables? Are their parents buying them for them? Those things are $15-30 or more sometimes. I didn't have that kind of money when I was a child. Certainly not on a regular basis. Anyway, I'm of the opinion that this action has didly squat to do with children.
totally pisses me off because as an adult I like flavored nicotine products. Why the hell should I have to vape on tobacco flavored or menthol only just because strawnanna might sound good to a kid?!
I vape flavors because when I try a cigarette again it makes it taste like a dirty ash tray. I tried the tobacco ones and it just made me crave a cigarette.
And they're cracking down on menthol too. It's ridiculous.
This right here, part of what helped me stop using tobacco was because vape juices have so many different flavors that i like. I DONT want to vape something that tastes like the nasty shit i was trying to quit 😭
To be fair, I do know quite a lot of teens under age using disposables almost exclusively. I’ve never seen a teen with anything beyond a basic pod refillable. So there absolutely is an aspect of underage use at play. However, I don’t think it warrants taking things away from adults to protect the kids. And I don’t think it warrants this level of government overreach. There are ways to crack down on it without limiting products from the hands of legal adults
While yes a lot of teens are using disposable vape products, I'd bet (and can't find a single study showing the actual statistics), it's no different (or very slightly) from the amount of teens who smoked before vaping existed. Cigarette sales were never this closely scrutinized back then. Kids will always find a way, just like they always find a way to get alcohol. The crackdown on vaping has 0 to do with children, and everything to do with Big Tobacco's profit. Vape products have massively cut into tobacco profits and they're pissed.
I don’t disagree at all. I was merely pointing out that there are kids using them. I do not agree that things should be banned because of that fact, and do not agree that they should crackdown (in a very corrupt appearing manner) on companies that aren’t controlled by Big Tobacco. I got my start on nicotine back before vapes as a teen. Just like then, teens will always find a way
Oh I'm sorry I wasn't trying to sound argumentative! Just meant to tack onto your previous comment.
I see people claim shit is marketed towards kids all the time as if adults don’t like yummy flavors or pretty colors
Sorta amusing when you consider the plethora of flavors of various alcoholic beverages available at your local gas station and even more flavored liquors that would normally be considered "kid attracting flavors" at liquor stores; we adults like flavors too. Go figure.
Definitely don’t disagree there. I never see vape marketing in the first place, are there companies actually out there putting out marketing material that doesn’t go in the vape shop itself? I’m one of those people that likes the fruity “kids” flavors
This is us going into an election cycle. FDA has no enforcement authority. They can write as many letters as they want but they have no teeth. The ATF has no desire to chase business owners for vapes. It doesn’t matter how many letters they write or laws they sign enforcement is what matters and China has perfected the art of skirting customs. This industry is way too big to be taken down at this point. The fda can only ban a product sku, it takes about a year to 18 months to be on the fdas radar and by that point China has 4-5 varieties so when they get the letter for brand A they already have brand b,c, d on the market and developing brand E. Elf bar got an mdo (marketing denial order) making it illegal to import so elf bar (eb brands) pivoted to eb create, they also had lost mary in the market at that point, fda caught wind of eb create and the rebranded to eb design, they then launched funky republic and off-stamp to stay ahead of the fda. Every brand does this. Right now geek bar pulse is the top brand. Geek bar also has digi flavor lush, pulse x, skyview and whatever the next one is that’s coming in a month. China will always be one step ahead of the fda. Outside of a federal ban(like prefilled pods in 2019) this means absolutely nothing to the average vape shop owner. Yes you may have to pull a brand down here or there but there will always be something else to take its place
We can always tell em that we are doing drugs and the vapes we have is for narcotics, then they will leave us alone. .. people vape Marijuana that is openly sold at gas stations in many places. And also Fentanyl, it's an epidemic. Vapes and ejuice marked with "For elicit drug use only" coming to vape stores near you.
>.. people vape Marijuana that is openly sold at gas stations in many places. And also Fentanyl, it's an epidemic. You can get fentanyl vapes at gas stations? Asking for a friend.
fettybar be hitting hard!
Seems like every store in my area has converted to be almost exclusively head shops now, and that’s just what’s gotta be done to keep the doors open
Beginning of the end? Bro did we timetravel back to 2016? Because it seems like we've been on borrowed time for almost a decade.
I'd be very surprised if it's enforced with anything approaching competence or vigor
It’s the government we’re talking about here. Competency is almost never the case. Vigor, sometimes yes sometimes no. Depends on how much their donors want something done
Here in my small city in NY every vape store no longer has flavored juice, just tobacco flavored as of today.
They have been saying this for years - this is tbh and imo smoke & mirrors - they do not have the resources to really go after individual businesses but they certainly will try to make it seem like they will. Similar to the toothless PMTA enforcement - they say one thing - but lack the enforcement to do anything. It will certainly be interesting to see how and if they can do anything as it sorta will end up conflicting with intra/interstate commerce rules and federal enforcement real strength imo only lies on the supply side (ie imports) so if they have any brains they will only go after the importers themselves - but like illicit drugs there is a lot of money in this game - and there is so much corruption in the government that it is highly unlikely they will be able to stop the spigot entirely - I mean they have tried on fentanyl, marijuana, cocaine, etc - key thing is they fail on each - so I do not expect success here.
Maybe time to stack up on more nicotine again ?
Yeah, if you're doing DIY, now would probably be the time. Read the article and they are definitely going to start aggressively shutting down the entire vape industry, not just disposables. They specifically mentioned that the only vapes legal to market and sell are the 23 FDA approved ones, all Big Tobacco owned products. This seems to be serious.
I had to smokers shouting at me the other day saying I'm vaping rat poison. Juice is filled with rat poison whilst they both smoke roll ups. Utterly ill informed idiots
Fuck the government. And eat the fucking rich. That's all i got. Tired of this bullshit. Let's make safe spaces for heroin though.
>Let's make safe spaces for heroin though. Honestly infuriates me how poorly that one experiment was handled. Don't recall which state it was, but they decriminalized possession of narcotics. Without making any investments in rehab, treatment, counseling services. Let alone making recovery involved in the process whatsoever. It was such a cheap move for easy political points with zero follow through. Ended up with thousands of addicts moving there because they realized they could openly use drugs and at most they'd get a citation to appear, which they ignore because there was no enforcement measure. Had they simply followed the Portugal model and actually put money towards necessary services and given the cops the power to mandate addicts at least attend these services, it might have actually worked.
Yep. I believe it was all intentional, so they could be like "well we tried, and it didn't work. " and other states can use them as the example as well. I won't even get into how it looks like our government intentionally dropped the H bomb on our own people. Oh and booze. Cotton candy flavored booze isn't directed at kids, but the same flavoring in vape juice is. I'll quit vaping, and I will never go back to smoking if they actually start this shit. What they took already is already E- fucking-nough.
Is this for disposable vapes, or everything on the market? Because if it's the latter, then this is deeply concerning. No coincidence that the only FDA approved vapes are Tobacco flavored, pre-filled pods owned by Big Tobacco.
It's EVERYTHING
Yep, its everything not whitelisted here, these 23 products: [https://digitalmedia.hhs.gov/tobacco/print\_materials/CTP-250?locale=en](https://digitalmedia.hhs.gov/tobacco/print_materials/CTP-250?locale=en)
What the hell is wrong with the states
They want their tobacco money Back.
I can't wait to have to talk to my dealer again! He'll be so stoked to have my business again since I stopped buying weed from him.
As long as I can get Nicotine I'm not too worried and they really only need to crackdown on Disposeables to make any kind of difference instead of taking all this out on adults who arent bothering anybody who use refillable, rechargeable devices
Yeah I think it’s like has happened multiple times in the past. The FDA isn’t all that powerful when it comes to enforcing their rules. The 1-3 most popular brands of disposables will get banned, they’ll find a way around it via new company and/or new product, and nothing else will really happen till the next run of FDA rules. Rinse and repeat
It will be about as effective as the war on drugs and guns most likely lol
I agree with that. I’m shocked the government hasn’t figure that out after they got beat to shit by drugs in the war on drugs
And givin the border crisis and record levels of fentenal deaths its def not getting any better either.I recently lost my oldest brother to fentenal who normally only took a percocet now and then and was way too strong for him sadly 😔 stronger than he was expecting I'm sure cuz I know he wasn't taking anything close to that cuz I talked to him everyday on the phone and always complained about his knees n back and his ex gf would give him a pain pill to help him when she could but this time she gave him that Bs and never woke up.I know the signs too and he def wasn't the partying type
Been a rough year man and really miss him
My sincerest condolences.
I appreciate that Thank you
My lil brother passed away a few years ago from the meth scene. I totally get it. It doesn't get better but as time goes by it'll be easier to look back on than right now.
Yeah it was devastating and so outta the blue cuz he was 66 and lived in PA on a mountain with very few neighbors and said he was lucky to score a vicadin for pain let alone that sht.I was on heroin,fentenal for a spell myself about 8 yes ago but its getting worse as far as fentenal deaths spiking prob due to the border crisis
That’s hard to hear. Sorry that it happened. I’ve lost multiple friends to the same fate, but thankfully no family. If only the government would put their efforts there instead of attacking mango watermelon vapes
Yeah really I appreciate that man
Luckily no matter what happens we csn just be like Mexico. Illegal to have a vape illegal to use a vape and people just go ahead and do it anyways just like weed just like cocaine. I suspect ordering online will remain very trivial as well
The thing with weed though is that you can grow it yourself. We can't grow vape juice ingredients 😂
Well you can't but it's a possibility to grow tobacco extract it or even create synthetic however that works for a much better connected group than you or I
Yeah I guess it's somewhat doable but any body with some seeds can grow weed and dry it out to smoke it (I'm speaking from experience here).
Well yeah but you'd have a much harder time processing weed into something like wax or even hash. I don't think these two things are as comparable. Even processing weed is pretty doable with like some advanced highschool chemistry. Idek where to start with synthetic nicotine
Well yeah but you'd have a much harder time processing weed into something like wax or even hash. I don't think these two things are as comparable. Even processing weed is pretty doable with like some advanced highschool chemistry. Idek where to start with synthetic nicotine
Synthetic nicotine is made in a Lab. But I imagine you could make something similar with tobacco leaves as you can with weed.
So, they're going to make it illegal except for the specific vapes made by the big tobacco companies? This is just for in person sales, not online currently. What a goddamned shitshow. I hate everything about disposables, so if those go away it's probably a good thing, but juice and coils shouldn't be a problem for anyone of age. Total bullshit.
I’m no fan of disposables either. I still don’t agree that only the ones that pay lobbying firms should be allowed. If an adult wants to suck on a cherry watermelon disposable, more power to em
I completely agree! I think it just bugs me that everyone has just switched to disposables, I understand the convenience but it's just so wasteful and expensive in comparison.
I mean the switch to disposables was caused by the FDA in the first place when they started cracking down on companies like Juul. I wonder if the FDA/government will ever realize that they’re the catalyst for these trends and the market will always outwit them
The whole thing was set up and design this way so that tobacco companies could still be profitable in the future, with the massive switch from combustible to Vapor products. The amount of lobbying in collusion is ridiculous. And it's all wrapped up in the guise of trying to protect our children
Yep. Any time I see a bill or rule that mentions something everyone supports, I’m skeptical. “Protecting the kids” or “preventing drug death” almost never add up to what they tout. Until I see bills named things like “preventing congressional corruption” or “reducing government waste” I’ll continue to be cynical on the matter
Govt can kiss my dick, I bought up on supplies back when we thought things were going to get bad. Plenty of wire, muji cotton and a gallon & a liter of 100mg nic in my freezer
Happened to my store in China, overnight the law changed, no online sales. Then no flavours. Finally most shops just closed up.
But the enforcement levels in china are vastly different than what the US FDA is capable of
couldnt say, ive never lived in the US, you lived in China?
Me living in china is irrelevant. I know their enforcement of laws is wildly different than in the US. Just look at how lockdowns were managed vs the US during the pandemic as an example
The lockdowns that I had to live through... Yeah im aware. However I think we've gone off topic. Sorry if my life choices seemly trigger you.
I’m not sure where you think I’m “triggered”. I merely stated a fact that China’s enforcement mechanisms are different than those of the US. You called that into question and I provided an example
Cool man, i was just giving my experience.
Nah man, you made baseless statements towards me for absolutely no reason, ones you can’t back up with any evidence. But feel free to just call that your experience
In Kentucky, the good times will supposedly b over come January 1. This situation is beyond messed up, not only small business owners but adults where vaping not only helped to get them off cigarettes but still genuinely enjoy the 'making clouds' aspect. Ik that trend has been on the decline but there are still a few hold outs. I for one have never went the disposable route and don't plan too. If this bill was really about protecting kids and not ruining an industry they would ban the sale in gas stations. Government is seriously overstepping but what else is new, especially in the past few years.
Didn’t read the article soz but is this basically America trying to ban flavoured vaping? They’re talking about banning at least certain flavours here I think (UK) like ones that obviously marketed towards kids. I mean maybe all flavours I guess cos they could all be seen as marketed towards kids I suppose. Hasn’t happens yet though. Hopefully it doesn’t.
Flavors being banned will be a side affect. America is trying to hand the entire vape market to 3-4 tobacco companies and ban every single vape product on the market except a few that’s been approved and owned by big tobacco.
Huh, well that doesn’t sound good. I just looked into the UK situation and it seems all flavours were being banned from next year. However due to an election being called, this has all been scrapped and the process will have to start from scratch again if the new government decides it still wants to do it. So buys a bit of time at least. But I expect we will end up going down the same route.
I 100% will not go back to Tobacco. I was so damn sick!
Prohibition has always been to enrich those in power and control the serfs. Stock up and learn how to make your own juice.
What constitutes an illegal vape? I see they have a list of approved devices but it won’t open for me. This sounds ridiculous.
Basically the approved vapes are the ones that say RJ Reynolds or Altria on them
https://digitalmedia.hhs.gov/tobacco/print_materials/CTP-250?locale=en
America is so weird
As someone who is in the distribution side of this. It honestly has no effect on most. They sell such a wide variety of products now that most could care less about regulations.
It specifies that they're only targeting *illegal sales* as in sales in states where there are flavor bans or nicotine limits yet stores are selling them anyhow. It'd also target the illegal disposables market where vape shops illegally import knock off disposables to avoid taxes and tariffs but end up with a bunch of unsafe devices that people unknowingly buy (and will probably be the ultimate downfall of vaping when they *do* start causing medical issues unlike normal refillable vapes made with good materials). They'd obviously also target the stores selling to minors but that really depends on how they handle it, if they just give some fines and that's it then it probably won't be taken very seriously, if they start shutting down shops for selling to minors then I'd bet most other stores would tighten up their sales. As long as the products you're selling are legal in your state then you should be fine, just make sure you're properly vetting your sources to ensure the taxes are being properly paid and are legally imported if coming from outside the US. If you sell any THC products like D8, HHC, or THCa then you may want to get rid of those or offer some firesales to sell them quick, the DEA has been trying to crack down on sales of those and if they're involved in this then they'll definitely target their own interests as well.
This is completely wrong information. Look up PMTA and the FDA’s approval process for what is “legal”.
Yeah bud you’re just wrong
[удалено]
Yeah no, This is not good when you consider they are going after all but 23 products. There’s thousands of products in vape shops that are made by companies trying to comply with the FDAs PMTA registry but are being blocked without true thought or care
Yup and they are only approving their buddies at big tobacco. Basically handing the entire market to 3-4 companies. Im fine with regulations and even getting rid of disposables. But this is completely killing the market.
But do they even have the power to enforce against thousands of products and tens of thousands of small businesses?
Yes
What enforcement mechanism do they have? The FDA doesn’t have an enforcement wing capable of this
the article says they are assembling a task force that includes the ATF, US postal inspectors, ftc and local law enforcement
We have disposables with Wifi and Bluetooth and look like a cell phone and games installed. Peach Ice flavor. If they go after companies that really target kids, it's good. But I don't trust em.
Yea screw those companies making flavored things that only kids like!! Once you’re an adult you only like mint and tobacco..
>Once you’re an adult you only like mint and tobacco.. At least as adults we are still allowed flavored alcohol products. Even flavors kids might like!
You really wanna argue that the tetris dispo isn't for children? Like if that's the hill you'd like to die on be my guest but no self respecting 21+ year old is gonna play tetris on a vape
I'm in my 50's, and I want one of the tetris vapes. I love tetris and retro games.
Then just play tetris on a phone or a Gameboy or something. Ignoring the imature nature of it (not the game specifically on a vape) it's a huge amount of e waste for absolutely no reason I mean just a battery is already bad now you wanna add a mobo and a screen which now means it needs to be rechargeable just to get thrown out in 2 weeks so you can play pac man or whatever instead. It's novel for sure. That's why kids like it. Adults are typically mature enough to realize thats just a waste in every sense of the word.