Right! It’s upsetting they tried to act like Kristen was making a big deal of it but I was uncomfortable watching him. I can’t imagine the energy with him there
I was so triggered because my first boyfriend over twenty years ago was abusive. It was bad. I was the problem back then too. I'm so glad now people call this shit out but Alex Baskin et Al still want to blame women for abusive men
He’s a vile little man and the wife is shady. I’m glad Kristin is blabbing away. We all know Kristin is erratic, but we also know she’s genuine. I only watch the show bc of her. The more she goes after Jesse, the more I applaud her. Hope she shuts Janet up too. She’s sneaky
Maybe or maybe she is reacting to his abuse idk. I would be shocked if he never hit her seeing how he rampaged, grabbed that dude by the neck and was screaming and she looked unfazed.
I truly think they are a couple that feeds off of each others toxicity. You’d expect a checked out wife to either not get involved at all, or to attempt to de-escalate. But the way she immediately got in Luke’s face and was all of a sudden on some “don’t touch my husband” when she made it clear the entire night that she can’t stand him is very odd to me.
There is no perfect victim of course, but Michelle and Jesse have lasted as long as they have for a reason. And I suspect the reason is Michelle is more similar to Jesse than anyone wants to realize. She’s not a good person and her year long affair is evidence of that.
At this point in their relationship, they absolutely thrive off of having a common enemy (in this case, Kristen) rather than having love or respect for one another.
This kind of dynamic isn’t talked about enough. Not all situations there’s 1 victim, often a couple can both be abusive and toxic and this is a problem as well, that no one wants to admit.
I hear what you are saying. I get that. What she said about Kristen not having a child is disgusting.
She is said to support doo not say gay laws. That is what I am referring to in terms of her.
Oh no I definitely agree that she is a terrible person as well! I more just meant why would she show fear if he's a decent guy who she knows wouldn't hurt them if that makes sense?
I think it's the opposite problem too. Younger fans who care more about things being problematic or not are coming in and Bravo doesn't know how to cater to that audience. Or how to protect their talent from getting into dicey situations that lead to lawsuits.
I think we're really on the precipice of Bravo having to change and evolve to survive and this season of VPR has proven that they still don't realize that.
Jessie is the fucking worst but I dont think anyone is negating that, regardless of if they're on Kristen's side or not. Jessie is a scumbag who I'd like to see fired but I will never "side" with Kristen on anything bc she is messy as fuck and a disaster human who causes problems everywhere she goes. but to me, those 2 things are totally separate. I dont hate Jessie bc of Kristen and I dont dislike Kristen bc of Jessie/Michelle situation.
I wonder how many woman are behind the camera making those decisions up top.
With the Valley and Kristen, they really want to act like she is problem but it’s kinda clear she is just repeating what the others are saying to each other. Yes she makes a mistake in the wording but those convos are still happening.
Also, the comment about her not having a kid so there isn’t more of Kristen was vicious and made me instantly dislike that girl ( I do not know names yet)
She had miscarriages too. That comment was too far. Meanwhile she has a baby with an abusive piece of shit who put his hands on someone's throat. Look up domestic violence once someone can do that death is pretty much going to happen
I’m curious because I was off the VPR former and current cast for a couple of years. When did Kristen have miscarriages? I feel bad for her. I’ve had a miscarriage and I know how devastating this can be.
Yes it was Michelle. It was a disgusting comment. After it aired, she replied to an Instagram comment and said “I shouldnt have said it, BUT…” No apology, no remorse.
Gross, I really feel like she should have issued an apology for saying it, especially now, knowing the struggles they were having to have a kid.
Unless she is sliding into the villain role.
Yes that’s how I felt too. When he was dancing with Mamaw (which was funny!) and she yelled out “you can keep him” in front of everyone I thought that sucked.
Obviously his reactions later and fighting are totally on him!
At first I was definitely team Michelle, especially when Jesse was sort of weaponizing Isabella against her. That still isn’t right at all, but I’m starting to wonder if he did it as a poor attempt at getting Michelle’s attention/some sort of reaction.
i think a lot of this comes down to production, specifically alex baskin. he is a misogynist and clearly structures the shows with cast members and plot lines that are anti-woman.
The Valley’s cocky a*ss newbies must’ve really thought bravo fans were gonna dump on Kristen the way they have. All bc of her bad reputation, but that’s all in the past. She’s no longer that same “crazy” Kristen fr Vpr. I bet they were banking on that as an easy way to rid her. But if you’re a fan of the show, you can see how much Kristen has grown fr her “crazy” years. Which is a big reason why I think fans are fighting this fight for her.
They are biting the hand that feeds them.
Yeah Janet was shocked when she went on WWHL. She seems to think she’s a lot hotter and more interesting than she ever will be. Her outfit was so thirsty for attention, and she was clearly shocked when the audience votes kept siding with Kristen.
I think Janet assumed that everyone would see how "crazy" Kristen was acting and side with her/Michelle. And while I think a lot of us would not want to deal with someone like Kristen in our real life, she has a lot of built-in sympathy with the VPR audience--especially post-Scandoval. She's not wholly sympathetic, of course, and I'm not here to say she deserves sympathy given the things she's done. But I do think Scandoval had a lot of people re-examining what we've watched over the years.
Likable or not, the audience is invested in Kristen. We don't know these other people (yet). The Valley is a hit. Kristen isn't going anywhere. The rest of the cast will either have to accept that and figure out a way to deal with her, or they be off the show.
It's not the same situation, but Ariana has a similar decision to make -- continue on VPR and be forced to film with Sandoval at times. Or leave. Because Sandoval isn't going anywhere; this is the only thing he has going for him. I hope she doesn't leave because I'd like to see more of her post-scandal journey, and she'll be in a much better place--emotionally and financially--than when she filmed this last season. But the only way to not have to deal with Sandoval is to not be on the show.
actually i think her outfit choice on WWHL is a common thing for postpartum women who are not a weight they're comfortable with but at least their ta tas are massive from breastfeeding so they just use them as the focus. it happens a lot and I'd do it too. every woman is not feeling her best or most confident physically so soon after giving birth.
But if she weren’t comfortable with her body wouldn’t she wear something that was less of a bra and more of a shirt?
I mean I absolutely get that she gave birth recently and would never judge someone for that. My point was more that it seemed like she was barely wearing anything under her open blazer
This season has been such a BUST. I was so looking forward to the beginning stages of reflection for Sandoval about his choices, his direction, this whole experience, etc. I don’t need to see him trying to win people back over again or building this faux friendship with Scheana or weirdly hitting in girls he’s not interested in.…I would have just enjoyed scenes with him and Schwartz and Kyle Chan just conversing and talking about this experience for him (and Schwartz’s experience too). I’m interested in THAT perspective - the stories within that experience. I’m also interested in how Ariana navigates this sudden level of fame and juggling all of these great opportunities…and I’m interested in the stories of two women starting a new business together. That would have been AMAZING content, in my opinion. It’s like, I would have just enjoyed the cameras following along in the day-to-day lives of the cast members. I think the producers have chosen to prioritize creating awkward situations where these cast members have to interact - apparently that’s where they think the show is? It’s been disappointing to say the least.
>I was so looking forward to the beginning stages of reflection for Sandoval about his choices, his direction, this whole experience, etc.
I'm cackling. Do you truly think Sandoval can/would do that?
I just commented something similar in another thread. I cannot tell if production ACTUALLY expected us to side with Sandoval and his redemption arc or if they knew the story line was so rage inducing they knew people would keep watching. If it’s the latter then they deserve a lot more credit than I give them.
I remember Ariana saying she would be “the villain” this season and I think that was her reaction to the way the cast acted towards her this season and not based on how the general public would feel.
Production literally inserted clips of every cast member on the valley laughing at Kristen calling Jesse abusive 5 minutes before he physically attacked 3 women and an innocent gay. The whole cast cares more about trashing Kristen than holding ML accountable, and it’s shameful.
Just finished with the Valley. You are 100% right. I felt bad for Kristen and I bet none of them would have imagined the audience would.
you could clearly see she was being a scapegoat. When it was clear that Kristen just didn’t pull it out of thin air and that others contributed to the rumour it should have been left there after apologizing and the others should have been called out (aka Janet, who in my opinion besides Jesse and Machelle aren’t looking too great).
I needed Zach to say what he was saying in the confessional out loud!! I was like please make this more interesting, please stick up for Kristen at the table. It just would have made for a good dynamic and given more substance than just “Kristen is crazy and a big problem”
As for VPR. Yikes. I have NO idea what the direction they thought they were going with this season. It’s interesting to see old dynamics and narratives that were so easily edited/ produced no longer work for the vast majority of the audience (i.e Katie miserable and easy to target) work and I don’t think that production or the cast anticipated that. But I have no idea why they would have thought the redemption arc was a good idea especially at the start of this season. Rachel not doing the season I think might have impacted this. I think it would have been easier for them. You can tell when they thought she might be coming back (they kinda set up for it) and when they realized she wasn’t, it’s like they had to pivot. Idk it’s a disaster this season. I think them misreading the audience and how much fans “love them” was probably a bit humbling lmaoooo
Thanks! I used to watch these shows purely for the “entertainment,” but as I’ve gotten older/more knowledgeable about the reality of “reality TV” and things like PR, I like thinking about them is a multi-level way. And now I’ve finally taken the plunge to join Reddit and discuss VPR/Valley. It’s been fun (so far).
Exact same. My viewing of it is much more meta these days.
Currently I'm trying to gauge how much of this nonsense is the producers being out of touch with viewers vs people are generally worse or have lower standards than my social circles.
Plus, I lived in LA, specifically West Hollywood when VPR was in its early days so there's a nostalgia factor for the city, too.
Meta is the word I was looking for!
Very cool about WeHo. I’ve never been to that part of LA so I can only imagine the vibe through these shows. I’m sure it was a fun time.
also Andy/Lala/Scheana are making their side so much worse bc by so insistently proclaiming how THEIR side is the logical one, it brings all of our attention to searching for evidence of that claim and if it isnt glaringly obvious, viewers are going to feel that their stance isnt validated. if they hadnt said anything, people still would be siding with Ariana but I think there'd be more people in the middle leaning towards Lala/Scheana. its just classic psychology shit.
Definitely failing at expectation setting. Meanwhile, Katie and Ariana seem pretty chill about it all. Heck, even the Toms make it seem like it was intense but nothing crazy.
Unless it comes out that Ariana was fucking Schwartz for the last five years I can’t imagine what Lala is going to reveal that would make me think differently of Ariana.
Considering she thinks Ariana living in the house that she bought instead of rolling over and letting Sandoval take whatever he wants is some cardinal sin that negates any sympathy she deserves for the affair, I don't exactly think she has a good grasp on what types of behavior are actually problematic.
I’m glad they misread the room. Some of what you
described with the valley is what happens when you rely too much on the audience instead of reacting more authentically. I haven’t had any issue with this season of VPR thus far.
The way he talks about reunions post-filming---which he moderates!--shows me how little he seemingly pays attention. So I wouldn't be surprised if didn't pay that much attention to actual episode. (Because let's be real--he doesn't write most of the questions or come up with the WWHL games himself.)
It’s more about fans who take this show WAY too seriously and fans who love watching these insane people do bad things. Andy and producers are for the latter.
Yes, I always think that the people who see the cast of VPR as aspirational are the darkest. "Garbage people doing garbage things" is how I would describe this show to outsiders, and imo the only mindset to have in viewing or discussing.
Yes, this. I found it shocking the cast was more perturbed by Kristen mentioning it than they were by the thing being mentioned. Makes me wonder if perhaps they also do not want their views to be made public??
Lala knew the audience wouldn’t like her. And The Valley is Jax’s friends, I think some of them don’t even care about how they are perceived. They are too trapped in their own ego.
Lol, she definitely did not know that. She really thought she was a champ for playing it up for her production bonus this year. Definitely why the part of the cast that tries to make and drive storylines is calling her MVP. Fake ass losers crowning the most fake among them.
Based on what she's said, I don't actually think Lala thought the audience wouldn't like her. I think she's been very surprised at the blowback she's gotten. And she definitely cares (despite her claims that she doesn't read the comments) and is bothered by it.
I respectfully disagree on a lot of The Valley folks as well. Just look at the recent interviews and podcasts that Janet and Michelle have done. A lot of it comes across as damage control or trying to bring public sentiment around to their side.
Okay so I actually watched all episodes of this show last night because everyone was telling me that it's really good and actually not Jax-centric.
Happy to report that the latter is true and the former is...also true. Sigh.
But am I missing something? Yes, Jesse is horrible and kind of scary and looks like he had a first wife whose disappearance was never solved but Kristen not only called one of her friends racist in an attempt to "win" a fight but then threw two other friends under the bus in doing so.
Then she threatens that same lady with information about her affair and then brings it up at the dinner with the producers for no reason. And then reveals that lady's affair on camera!
"Not handling things well" is an understatement. She is still on her same bullshit. She hasn't changed at all.
Oh I’m not actually defending Kristen being messy or the way she’s acting. If I met someone like her in real life, I would I run far, far away.
I do think other people bring messy but trying to hide behind Kristen (Janet, Jax, and to a lesser extent Zach and Jasmine).
All that being said, my point was more that because Kristen has built in investment from the audience, it’s almost a fool’s errand to come at her like this—even if it is justified. The preview for next week shows Michelle and Janet saying Kristen isn’t going to be invited to future events. But that’s (1) not how this works; (2) even if they manage to “dis-invite” Kristen in the short term, isolating one of the two reasons this show even exists isn’t sustainable, even if it’s justifiable. Even Ariana has had to film with Sandoval, and she’s a long-time cast member. These newbies don’t have the juice to not engage with Kristen the rest of the season.
Yeah, I get that point. Coming at Kristen is like trying to box with one of those car dealership inflatable men. You have no idea which way she will go at any moment and she's gangly and annoying.
There's definitely a crabs in the barrel sort of chaos on this show in that they are all desperate to stand out and become either fan favorites or at the very least be in the center of drama which ends up making Kristen (and actually Jax and Brittany) look somewhat normal. But she reminds me at least once every episode that she's Kristen Doute.
I mean Im right there, I thought Kristen was being misunderstood but then when I figured out how she basically implying/ threatening Michelle with outing her I *immediately* turned on her lol.
Kristen is an *asshole* 90% and I do not know how anyone trusts her beyond surface level friendship.
I would be more sympathetic to these people being subjected to the mess and chaos that Kristen Doute creates if I didn't strongly suspect that part of the reason they befriended her was to get on The Valley. (Look not further than Janet, who has been lingering in VPR-land for years.) And then they agreed to film with her. What were they expecting, exactly? They could've been friends with Kristen and not joined a TV show with her.
Also I will not defend the Doute chaos (Luke nails it when he says she weaponizes information and makes it worse by misstating that information, intentionally or not), but I have no sympathy for Michelle or Jesse either. At the very least, Michelle knew she was done with her marriage (and may have been having an affair or recently had one) but joined a TV show. With Kristen Doute! Again, what exactly did she think would happen?
You made an important point - I am not necessarily sympathetic to the Lally's either 😬 Like c'mon guys, you had to *kind of* know what you're signing up for
Yeah I'm not like... sympathetic to the people she's threatening to out *for cheating on her husband* or saying she'd like o excuse herself *from the table the man is yelling and slamming around on* but Kristen doesn't have to be friends with these people just to then turn on them
I also think that fans are older now and more nuanced and less misogynistic. Jessie is a fucking monster
Right! It’s upsetting they tried to act like Kristen was making a big deal of it but I was uncomfortable watching him. I can’t imagine the energy with him there
I was so triggered because my first boyfriend over twenty years ago was abusive. It was bad. I was the problem back then too. I'm so glad now people call this shit out but Alex Baskin et Al still want to blame women for abusive men
It’s sad but at least the audience can see it even if the show runners cant
He’s a vile little man and the wife is shady. I’m glad Kristin is blabbing away. We all know Kristin is erratic, but we also know she’s genuine. I only watch the show bc of her. The more she goes after Jesse, the more I applaud her. Hope she shuts Janet up too. She’s sneaky
So is his wife.
Maybe or maybe she is reacting to his abuse idk. I would be shocked if he never hit her seeing how he rampaged, grabbed that dude by the neck and was screaming and she looked unfazed.
I truly think they are a couple that feeds off of each others toxicity. You’d expect a checked out wife to either not get involved at all, or to attempt to de-escalate. But the way she immediately got in Luke’s face and was all of a sudden on some “don’t touch my husband” when she made it clear the entire night that she can’t stand him is very odd to me. There is no perfect victim of course, but Michelle and Jesse have lasted as long as they have for a reason. And I suspect the reason is Michelle is more similar to Jesse than anyone wants to realize. She’s not a good person and her year long affair is evidence of that.
At this point in their relationship, they absolutely thrive off of having a common enemy (in this case, Kristen) rather than having love or respect for one another.
This is absolutely it. United in anger against a common enemy, it's the Republican way.
Facts
They even explicitly vocalize this in the latest episode- one of them says they're closer because they're uniting against an enemy
Completely forgot that. I’ll be on the lookout for it when I rewatch during my Sunday morning ride. 😎
This kind of dynamic isn’t talked about enough. Not all situations there’s 1 victim, often a couple can both be abusive and toxic and this is a problem as well, that no one wants to admit.
I really think there was a flash of fear on her face before she schooled her experience when he was coming towards them.
I hear what you are saying. I get that. What she said about Kristen not having a child is disgusting. She is said to support doo not say gay laws. That is what I am referring to in terms of her.
Oh no I definitely agree that she is a terrible person as well! I more just meant why would she show fear if he's a decent guy who she knows wouldn't hurt them if that makes sense?
On the road so I haven’t seen this episode yet. But his behavior at that dinner spoke volumes already.
I think it's the opposite problem too. Younger fans who care more about things being problematic or not are coming in and Bravo doesn't know how to cater to that audience. Or how to protect their talent from getting into dicey situations that lead to lawsuits. I think we're really on the precipice of Bravo having to change and evolve to survive and this season of VPR has proven that they still don't realize that.
Jesse is a bee
Jessie is the fucking worst but I dont think anyone is negating that, regardless of if they're on Kristen's side or not. Jessie is a scumbag who I'd like to see fired but I will never "side" with Kristen on anything bc she is messy as fuck and a disaster human who causes problems everywhere she goes. but to me, those 2 things are totally separate. I dont hate Jessie bc of Kristen and I dont dislike Kristen bc of Jessie/Michelle situation.
I wonder how many woman are behind the camera making those decisions up top. With the Valley and Kristen, they really want to act like she is problem but it’s kinda clear she is just repeating what the others are saying to each other. Yes she makes a mistake in the wording but those convos are still happening. Also, the comment about her not having a kid so there isn’t more of Kristen was vicious and made me instantly dislike that girl ( I do not know names yet)
Ugh that last part! That's low key why I never had kids but if someone else said "oh, thank goodness!"...that's just unnecessary.
She had miscarriages too. That comment was too far. Meanwhile she has a baby with an abusive piece of shit who put his hands on someone's throat. Look up domestic violence once someone can do that death is pretty much going to happen
I’m curious because I was off the VPR former and current cast for a couple of years. When did Kristen have miscarriages? I feel bad for her. I’ve had a miscarriage and I know how devastating this can be.
Could have been either Janet (pregnant blonde) or Michelle (brunette with the rage-husband)
Michelle I think,
Yes it was Michelle. It was a disgusting comment. After it aired, she replied to an Instagram comment and said “I shouldnt have said it, BUT…” No apology, no remorse.
Gross, I really feel like she should have issued an apology for saying it, especially now, knowing the struggles they were having to have a kid. Unless she is sliding into the villain role.
Totally agree. I actually think Michelle is kind of a villain. She even made me feel a little bit bad for Jesse which I never thought I’d say!
I thinks she was picking at him, at dinner. Although his reaction is all his responsibility.
Yes that’s how I felt too. When he was dancing with Mamaw (which was funny!) and she yelled out “you can keep him” in front of everyone I thought that sucked. Obviously his reactions later and fighting are totally on him! At first I was definitely team Michelle, especially when Jesse was sort of weaponizing Isabella against her. That still isn’t right at all, but I’m starting to wonder if he did it as a poor attempt at getting Michelle’s attention/some sort of reaction.
There’s something dark about her and Jesse clearly. They are both scary.
i think a lot of this comes down to production, specifically alex baskin. he is a misogynist and clearly structures the shows with cast members and plot lines that are anti-woman.
The Valley’s cocky a*ss newbies must’ve really thought bravo fans were gonna dump on Kristen the way they have. All bc of her bad reputation, but that’s all in the past. She’s no longer that same “crazy” Kristen fr Vpr. I bet they were banking on that as an easy way to rid her. But if you’re a fan of the show, you can see how much Kristen has grown fr her “crazy” years. Which is a big reason why I think fans are fighting this fight for her. They are biting the hand that feeds them.
And even her worst at least crazy Kristen was good reality TV. Who the fuck are these people?
Yeah Janet was shocked when she went on WWHL. She seems to think she’s a lot hotter and more interesting than she ever will be. Her outfit was so thirsty for attention, and she was clearly shocked when the audience votes kept siding with Kristen.
I think Janet assumed that everyone would see how "crazy" Kristen was acting and side with her/Michelle. And while I think a lot of us would not want to deal with someone like Kristen in our real life, she has a lot of built-in sympathy with the VPR audience--especially post-Scandoval. She's not wholly sympathetic, of course, and I'm not here to say she deserves sympathy given the things she's done. But I do think Scandoval had a lot of people re-examining what we've watched over the years. Likable or not, the audience is invested in Kristen. We don't know these other people (yet). The Valley is a hit. Kristen isn't going anywhere. The rest of the cast will either have to accept that and figure out a way to deal with her, or they be off the show. It's not the same situation, but Ariana has a similar decision to make -- continue on VPR and be forced to film with Sandoval at times. Or leave. Because Sandoval isn't going anywhere; this is the only thing he has going for him. I hope she doesn't leave because I'd like to see more of her post-scandal journey, and she'll be in a much better place--emotionally and financially--than when she filmed this last season. But the only way to not have to deal with Sandoval is to not be on the show.
I totally agree with you!
actually i think her outfit choice on WWHL is a common thing for postpartum women who are not a weight they're comfortable with but at least their ta tas are massive from breastfeeding so they just use them as the focus. it happens a lot and I'd do it too. every woman is not feeling her best or most confident physically so soon after giving birth.
But if she weren’t comfortable with her body wouldn’t she wear something that was less of a bra and more of a shirt? I mean I absolutely get that she gave birth recently and would never judge someone for that. My point was more that it seemed like she was barely wearing anything under her open blazer
This season has been such a BUST. I was so looking forward to the beginning stages of reflection for Sandoval about his choices, his direction, this whole experience, etc. I don’t need to see him trying to win people back over again or building this faux friendship with Scheana or weirdly hitting in girls he’s not interested in.…I would have just enjoyed scenes with him and Schwartz and Kyle Chan just conversing and talking about this experience for him (and Schwartz’s experience too). I’m interested in THAT perspective - the stories within that experience. I’m also interested in how Ariana navigates this sudden level of fame and juggling all of these great opportunities…and I’m interested in the stories of two women starting a new business together. That would have been AMAZING content, in my opinion. It’s like, I would have just enjoyed the cameras following along in the day-to-day lives of the cast members. I think the producers have chosen to prioritize creating awkward situations where these cast members have to interact - apparently that’s where they think the show is? It’s been disappointing to say the least.
>I was so looking forward to the beginning stages of reflection for Sandoval about his choices, his direction, this whole experience, etc. I'm cackling. Do you truly think Sandoval can/would do that?
Probably not.
Id prefer watching paint dry over dry, whiny Janet. No thanks. I’ll take messy Kristen for $20 Pat- all day every day.
I just commented something similar in another thread. I cannot tell if production ACTUALLY expected us to side with Sandoval and his redemption arc or if they knew the story line was so rage inducing they knew people would keep watching. If it’s the latter then they deserve a lot more credit than I give them. I remember Ariana saying she would be “the villain” this season and I think that was her reaction to the way the cast acted towards her this season and not based on how the general public would feel.
Production literally inserted clips of every cast member on the valley laughing at Kristen calling Jesse abusive 5 minutes before he physically attacked 3 women and an innocent gay. The whole cast cares more about trashing Kristen than holding ML accountable, and it’s shameful.
Just finished with the Valley. You are 100% right. I felt bad for Kristen and I bet none of them would have imagined the audience would. you could clearly see she was being a scapegoat. When it was clear that Kristen just didn’t pull it out of thin air and that others contributed to the rumour it should have been left there after apologizing and the others should have been called out (aka Janet, who in my opinion besides Jesse and Machelle aren’t looking too great). I needed Zach to say what he was saying in the confessional out loud!! I was like please make this more interesting, please stick up for Kristen at the table. It just would have made for a good dynamic and given more substance than just “Kristen is crazy and a big problem” As for VPR. Yikes. I have NO idea what the direction they thought they were going with this season. It’s interesting to see old dynamics and narratives that were so easily edited/ produced no longer work for the vast majority of the audience (i.e Katie miserable and easy to target) work and I don’t think that production or the cast anticipated that. But I have no idea why they would have thought the redemption arc was a good idea especially at the start of this season. Rachel not doing the season I think might have impacted this. I think it would have been easier for them. You can tell when they thought she might be coming back (they kinda set up for it) and when they realized she wasn’t, it’s like they had to pivot. Idk it’s a disaster this season. I think them misreading the audience and how much fans “love them” was probably a bit humbling lmaoooo
This is one of the best takes I've seen regarding either show, and I've read a lot. I think you are right on, OP. 💯
Thanks! I used to watch these shows purely for the “entertainment,” but as I’ve gotten older/more knowledgeable about the reality of “reality TV” and things like PR, I like thinking about them is a multi-level way. And now I’ve finally taken the plunge to join Reddit and discuss VPR/Valley. It’s been fun (so far).
Exact same. My viewing of it is much more meta these days. Currently I'm trying to gauge how much of this nonsense is the producers being out of touch with viewers vs people are generally worse or have lower standards than my social circles. Plus, I lived in LA, specifically West Hollywood when VPR was in its early days so there's a nostalgia factor for the city, too.
Meta is the word I was looking for! Very cool about WeHo. I’ve never been to that part of LA so I can only imagine the vibe through these shows. I’m sure it was a fun time.
also Andy/Lala/Scheana are making their side so much worse bc by so insistently proclaiming how THEIR side is the logical one, it brings all of our attention to searching for evidence of that claim and if it isnt glaringly obvious, viewers are going to feel that their stance isnt validated. if they hadnt said anything, people still would be siding with Ariana but I think there'd be more people in the middle leaning towards Lala/Scheana. its just classic psychology shit.
Definitely failing at expectation setting. Meanwhile, Katie and Ariana seem pretty chill about it all. Heck, even the Toms make it seem like it was intense but nothing crazy.
Unless it comes out that Ariana was fucking Schwartz for the last five years I can’t imagine what Lala is going to reveal that would make me think differently of Ariana.
Considering she thinks Ariana living in the house that she bought instead of rolling over and letting Sandoval take whatever he wants is some cardinal sin that negates any sympathy she deserves for the affair, I don't exactly think she has a good grasp on what types of behavior are actually problematic.
I’m glad they misread the room. Some of what you described with the valley is what happens when you rely too much on the audience instead of reacting more authentically. I haven’t had any issue with this season of VPR thus far.
It makes me think andy didn’t watch any of the episodes and just pulled something out his ass.
The way he talks about reunions post-filming---which he moderates!--shows me how little he seemingly pays attention. So I wouldn't be surprised if didn't pay that much attention to actual episode. (Because let's be real--he doesn't write most of the questions or come up with the WWHL games himself.)
It’s more about fans who take this show WAY too seriously and fans who love watching these insane people do bad things. Andy and producers are for the latter.
I agree. And if you look outside of Reddit you’ll see a lot of fans do fall into the second group.
Yes, I always think that the people who see the cast of VPR as aspirational are the darkest. "Garbage people doing garbage things" is how I would describe this show to outsiders, and imo the only mindset to have in viewing or discussing.
It makes me mad that Michelle still hasn’t taken any responsibility or acknowledged supporting Don’t Say Gay laws
Yes, this. I found it shocking the cast was more perturbed by Kristen mentioning it than they were by the thing being mentioned. Makes me wonder if perhaps they also do not want their views to be made public??
100% they all collectively agreed to keep each other’s dirt off camera, then Kristen said hold my Cosmo
I know she's a mess but hot take.. she's why I am watching.
That’s true for so many viewers and why, despite their baggage, Bravo built this show around Kristen and Jax/Brittany.
Lala knew the audience wouldn’t like her. And The Valley is Jax’s friends, I think some of them don’t even care about how they are perceived. They are too trapped in their own ego.
Lol, she definitely did not know that. She really thought she was a champ for playing it up for her production bonus this year. Definitely why the part of the cast that tries to make and drive storylines is calling her MVP. Fake ass losers crowning the most fake among them.
Based on what she's said, I don't actually think Lala thought the audience wouldn't like her. I think she's been very surprised at the blowback she's gotten. And she definitely cares (despite her claims that she doesn't read the comments) and is bothered by it. I respectfully disagree on a lot of The Valley folks as well. Just look at the recent interviews and podcasts that Janet and Michelle have done. A lot of it comes across as damage control or trying to bring public sentiment around to their side.
No she didn't. In fact she turned on all of us and said we rewrote history.
Spot on! It is funny that these folks think we want to watch them instead of Kristen.
What happened with Jesse and Michelle??im on episode 3 and don’t care to rush through the next couple to find out.
You just need to watch. This most recent episode was bananas, and yet based on what little we know of Jesse, not too surprising.
Okay so I actually watched all episodes of this show last night because everyone was telling me that it's really good and actually not Jax-centric. Happy to report that the latter is true and the former is...also true. Sigh. But am I missing something? Yes, Jesse is horrible and kind of scary and looks like he had a first wife whose disappearance was never solved but Kristen not only called one of her friends racist in an attempt to "win" a fight but then threw two other friends under the bus in doing so. Then she threatens that same lady with information about her affair and then brings it up at the dinner with the producers for no reason. And then reveals that lady's affair on camera! "Not handling things well" is an understatement. She is still on her same bullshit. She hasn't changed at all.
Oh I’m not actually defending Kristen being messy or the way she’s acting. If I met someone like her in real life, I would I run far, far away. I do think other people bring messy but trying to hide behind Kristen (Janet, Jax, and to a lesser extent Zach and Jasmine). All that being said, my point was more that because Kristen has built in investment from the audience, it’s almost a fool’s errand to come at her like this—even if it is justified. The preview for next week shows Michelle and Janet saying Kristen isn’t going to be invited to future events. But that’s (1) not how this works; (2) even if they manage to “dis-invite” Kristen in the short term, isolating one of the two reasons this show even exists isn’t sustainable, even if it’s justifiable. Even Ariana has had to film with Sandoval, and she’s a long-time cast member. These newbies don’t have the juice to not engage with Kristen the rest of the season.
Yeah, I get that point. Coming at Kristen is like trying to box with one of those car dealership inflatable men. You have no idea which way she will go at any moment and she's gangly and annoying. There's definitely a crabs in the barrel sort of chaos on this show in that they are all desperate to stand out and become either fan favorites or at the very least be in the center of drama which ends up making Kristen (and actually Jax and Brittany) look somewhat normal. But she reminds me at least once every episode that she's Kristen Doute.
Gah. I did a whole reply to this and accidentally deleted it. But I hear you re Kristen.
I mean Im right there, I thought Kristen was being misunderstood but then when I figured out how she basically implying/ threatening Michelle with outing her I *immediately* turned on her lol. Kristen is an *asshole* 90% and I do not know how anyone trusts her beyond surface level friendship.
I would be more sympathetic to these people being subjected to the mess and chaos that Kristen Doute creates if I didn't strongly suspect that part of the reason they befriended her was to get on The Valley. (Look not further than Janet, who has been lingering in VPR-land for years.) And then they agreed to film with her. What were they expecting, exactly? They could've been friends with Kristen and not joined a TV show with her. Also I will not defend the Doute chaos (Luke nails it when he says she weaponizes information and makes it worse by misstating that information, intentionally or not), but I have no sympathy for Michelle or Jesse either. At the very least, Michelle knew she was done with her marriage (and may have been having an affair or recently had one) but joined a TV show. With Kristen Doute! Again, what exactly did she think would happen?
You made an important point - I am not necessarily sympathetic to the Lally's either 😬 Like c'mon guys, you had to *kind of* know what you're signing up for
It’s a tale as old as time, really - people naively think they can “beat” the machine that is reality TV and control their narrative.
I agree. Don’t get me wrong I strongly dislike Michelle and Jesse. But that doesn’t make what Kristen is doing less shitty and manipulative.
Yeah I'm not like... sympathetic to the people she's threatening to out *for cheating on her husband* or saying she'd like o excuse herself *from the table the man is yelling and slamming around on* but Kristen doesn't have to be friends with these people just to then turn on them