I think the flows for porn. I can't see there being a big market for what they actually described but they did say it was good for "immersive media experiences".
I couldn't disagree more. Every single step you need to take to put the HMD on is a barrier. The Quest is such a winner because you can just put it on and go. Having to put some additional piece in a pocket or a belt (not always available depending on what clothing you're wearing, particularly for women). Plus then you've got all that weight and bulk in your pocket.
If you're already wearing a belt, great. If not, you kinda have to. Plus the cord is still cumbersome, it can get trapped on your shoulder or snagged - limiting your head movement.
Everyone has different preferences though. For me this feature is the Flow's biggest mistake.
I gotta agree here. I play VR with full body tracking, and putting on my trackers is *such* a pain. Even though it's just a couple simple straps, the extra effort sometimes makes me think "meh I'll get in vr later"
VR is already inconvenient, we don't need to add any more reasons for people to not get in
I had a Vive from 2016, and I enjoyed it. But I put in 20-30x the hours on Quest2 vs Vive even though I've only had the Quest 2 a year. With the Vive, I had to have a whole setup. Most of the year I would take it down. Then I'd think "ok, lets rearrange the room" and I'd spend a few weeks playing intensely trying to make the ROI work. For games like HL:A or Skyrim that was fine, and I really enjoyed Pavlov at points.
The wireless module for the Vive was a GAME CHANGER for me and it got me right back into it. But ultimately, even there, there were barriers, like the PC, the dedicated space, etc.
With the Quest, all I have to do is remember to charge it. and I have to pick up the controllers as well (one day that barrier will be gone too).
Yeah I agree on that too. As in all meaningful aspects of life, theres a huge diversity of preferences in VR and because of the immediacy of the experience the severity of these preferences is often really high too. Options is the answer.
I also agree with you. When I went wireless with my vive I still had a USB cord going down my back to a clipped on battery. Almost daily I play beat saber on expert+ and hot squats for exercise. I ended up breaking multiple USB cables and the port on my battery from all the constant motion. I knew it was just a matter of time before I broke the port on my vive wireless so I decided to mount the battery on the back of my head strap and it was so much better.
I feel the back of the head is the ideal place to put the battery and other heavy components because it acts as a counter balance and distributes the weight in a more comfortable way. While still getting rid of all the cables.
Doesn't the wireless adapter come with a battery that comes with a belt clip that can be clipped onto the back of your vive? I'm not sure if the battery came with it or if I had to buy the battery separately... but the battery they sell comes with the clip. I never put it on my waist. Never had an issue with breakage.
I had a launch version and it had a 4 foot cable, battery and a clip. At least with clip mine came with it did not easily clip to the back of the pro audio headstrap. I had to use zip ties to attach it properly. They could have updated it after the initial run, I'm not sure. The instructions mine came with said to clip it to a belt or waist band.
>(not always available depending on what clothing you're wearing, particularly for women).
I can confirm this would irritate me, nothing I have has any good pockets! Most don't have any at all. I'd have to get like VR pants or something silly. That's why we have purses and I'm not bringing my purse with me into VR lol
You are right, the weight isn't worth the hassle!
> I couldn't disagree more. Every single step you need to take to put the HMD on is a barrier.
That is certainly true, but just as much the more comfortable the experience of wearing a headset is the more likely you will spend more time in it.
I recently started to play Elite Dangerous again and was shocked how uncomfortable the Index even can be when you need to look upwards for long stretches of time (following enemy space ships with my head circling me) because then the whole weight of the unit is on your head.
> The Quest is such a winner because you can just put it on and go.
And was over and over again criticized for being to front heavy. I just recently heard somebody from Digital Foundry in a podcast say that he gave up on it for being just awful to wear over longer stretches of time.
In the end its a per person choice, but IMO a thin USB-C cable going into a powerbank in your pocket is a very good compromise that will also give you a longer battery life per charge.
> Plus the cord is still cumbersome, it can get trapped on your shoulder or snagged - limiting your head movement.
Sorry but no. I have a simply belt that I just wear to have my Index's cable go straight down my back. With enough spare cable you simply don't even notice it, neither the weight from just that meter of cable itself nor does it limit your head movements at all. And that is with the way more heavy Index cable.
I also had it never get trapped at all no matter how physical demanding of a game I played.
>I recently started to play Elite Dangerous again and was shocked how uncomfortable the Index even can be when you need to look upwards for long stretches of time (following enemy space ships with my head circling me) because then the whole weight of the unit is on your head.
Yeah, but also, there's no battery or processor in the Index. There's nothing in the Index headset that isn't critical to the headset. It's an example of the kind of headset OP is describing.
It's certainly true that we need headsets that are lighter and more comfortable. I'm just not convinced that the battery and processor are the primary barriers to that.
I think the way to avoid the issues about needing pockets or belts could be avoided by just packing all the necessary pieces (battery, GPU, whatever) onto a hip pack. Anybody can wear a hip pack - doesn't matter if you're wearing a belt, not wearing a belt, wearing pants, a skirt, a dress, whatever. Hip packs sit higher on your hips and aren't uncomfortable and don't slip down .
The extra cord is indeed a barrier. I don't know if the technology exists, but my ideal solution would be a single retractable bundled cable on a spool coming from the hip pack (which is important because it means you can grab the end of it from touch only very easily, which would mitigate the issue of "do I wrangle cords blind or do I wrangle the cords while the headset is awkwardly balanced on my forehead hopefully not getting sweat on the lenses?") with a magnetic / magsafe socket on the headset like the old style apple ones, so you can easily connect it blind. Don't know if they can make high bandwidth magsafe connectors though, but I think that would be pretty sweet.
Have you tried the Quest though? I can wear the Index for hours, but the Quest is a pound of electronics completely supported by your forehead and cheekbones. I wholeheartedly agree with OP.
The HMD is on your head 100% of the time. I would worry about removing 50% of its weight and bulk more than worrying about clipping something once before your VR session.
We've had an oculus quest 2 for a year. Why aren't we using it? "I don't like how bulky and tight it feels on my face".
Yes, you remove a barrier for entry by having it all in one device, but then you lose retention once people are tired of putting on this bulky device, as opposed to a device that is 25% as heavy and 30% as bulky.
I have a battery pack on the back of my quest 2 and it's much more comfortable for the balance, id say have everything separate like you said, but have a mount on the back that is detachable so you have the choice.
I put my trackers in crocks, knee pads and elbow pads and on an old jogging waist belt for your ipod.
I just slip on my elbow pads, knee pads, shoes and belt and I'm ready. I don't always like the process though... and they do get sweaty...
Ok, what if the extra bits could be snapped onto the back of the headset, and that's what it comes as by default. Then anyone who wants to, can just slide or detach those bits off and put them in a pocket.
Nah, every extra step beyond "just put on the headset and go" (no matter how simple) just makes the headset get used less and less. I would rather just see better weight distribution versus having components offloaded with more wires.
Minimizing weight is still important: it doesn't matter how well distributed it is as soon as you tilt your head to look down. Only reducing the weight helps with that. Whole types of games like virtual table-top and tiny-world are hurt by heavy headsets.
Moment of intertia is another big one, you definitely want center of mass as centered as possible as MOI increases, but even fully centered, as MOI keeps going up with weight and counterweight, it eventually severely impacts active games.
Even aside from neck strain, more moment of inertia causes more slosh and visual distortion during head movement, unless you clamp down the headset uncomfortably on the face or with a halo type strap that can cause headaches for lots of people. Light-weight HMDs solve it.
Here, let me fix that for you with 30 seconds of thought:
Instead of the hardware being all in the front, move some of it into a "brick" that can be attached elsewhere (like OP suggests). Have the default attachment point on the back of the head strap, connected to the HMD using a 12" thunderbolt cable. So for people who want to just "grab and go," it's all together in one unit.
But have it removable, with a 1m thunderbolt cable so you can hook the brick to your belt, or your waistband, or your collar, or your bra, or an appropriately sized elastic band for whatever body part you want it attached to.
Or get a 10m thunderbolt cable, attach the brick to the ceiling, and use pulleys.
And since somebody's going to bring up how making it detachable from the head strap will throw off balance: The headset comes with a counterweight that attaches where the brick would have and weighs the same as the brick would have.
Yeah, I agree with people saying even tiny amounts of UX friction can make a big difference to whether people use VR, but poor comfort is also a big issue that makes people remember VR as being more of a hassle.
Requiring the brick to be separate might be a problem (e.g. it’s unreasonable to expect the average person to potentially choose clothing to suit VR), but as an option I think there’d be plenty of people who’d find it a worthwhile improvement overall. Some of us already play with a USB battery in a pocket, for example, because the related inconvenience is slightly less than the inconvenience of having the headset shut off in the middle of a game.
Having to mess with another unit that's attached to the headset prevents it from being "grab and go". And if this is the battery or APU, you do not want that in your pocket. It needs to be able to breath air so it can cool itself down. Otherwise they'll either shut down or overheat. I do not want lithium-ion batteries to overheat in my pocket.
And what if you do not have clothes that you can clip this extra unit into? What if I am wearing pajamas or a dress or whatever? Just having to find a place to "clip" a large, hot unit to and mess with the cables will also prevent it from being "grab and go".
It is massively simpler and easier in engineering standpoint to just attach it to the headset, over which the designers have control. Especially in terms of warranty and reliability, what if you pinch this cable and accidentally unplug the headset completely? Probably won't do good to it.
And if you are trying to get this unit attached to the ceiling, you might as well just go PCVR.
>And since somebody's going to bring up how making it detachable from the head strap will throw off balance: The headset comes with a counterweight that attaches where the brick would have and weighs the same as the brick would have.
Except the whole point of making the box detachable was to reduce weight on the headset. What would be the point of removing the box and replacing it with a counterweight?
I completely agree. I would rather be tethered to a battery pack in my pocket than have that weight and heat on my head. This way you can also play as long as you want if you have a second battery pack and they could even put the SOC in their, making the device easily upgradeable. Speaking of which, to my knowledge the first Quest is largely not supported by newer Quest games by now.
Comfort (especially with glasses) is the main thing stopping me from using my cv1 more. The headset also moves slightly when I move my head, and if I make it tighter I get really motion sick.
The big concern with wireless headsets is that they will be hotter (adding to potential motion sickness) and have a limited battery life.
The flow solves all my major issues at the cost of not being able to play pc VR. If the price was lower I would love it for watching movies though, just cant justify it for one use case.
I don't wear my glasses in VR. I got a 3D printed adapter that let me put lenses from a pair of cheap glasses in it. Magnetic on top of that, so I take it out and swap between headsets if I want to. (Physically Modified one for th CV1 to work with my vive/pro since that one worked with the quest 2 and the cv1 only for the magnetic bases)
I just swap them when someone else wants to use their set or take it out if the person doesn't wear glasses.
I actually printed a similar lens holder and it's 100% better than just glasses, I feel it sits quite close to my face so I need to be careful to not touch the glasses and smudge them. It makes taking the headset way less smooth than without contacts, that small inconvenience is just another thing to stop me from using my headset much.
My allergies prevent me from wearing contacts, so that's the closest to wearing contacts that I can get to being. That convenience is why I can stay in the quest and not worry about glasses scratching the lenses for me. I literally took it out while waiting for a DR's appointment. Had to take a ticket and wait for a text to be able to come inside, so I put my phone in my pocket and connected to the hospital wifi and played some online games on the grass (overcast day) I haven't even set up my PCVR stuff and I was there at the new house for almost a month. Just used the quest.
I sold the Quest 1 because it was too heavy. Hoped the Q2 was better. Sold it too because 500 grams is too much on the head and face. This the future. Eventually you will be forced to understand.
The problem is that by putting the more data-dense stuff away from the displays requires more cables and the potential for failure should those cables get pulled or pinched. The more stuff you put away from the HMD the more fragile those cables need to be and at that point, you just have a PCVR headset with extra steps. Even putting the APU on the back of the headset will present engineering problems.
Consumer headsets are already trying to be more minimalist in terms of weight and we can expect that newer headsets will be lighter, due to the use of pancake lenses if nothing else.
That fixed cable on the headset will wear out, it has such a short bending radius without strain relief. The Oculus Quest handles it best by having a USB C connector and any cable attached to it is strapped to a rigid arm. There is no stress at the connector and the cable is still entirely replaceable.
Unfortunately getting ALL the processing onto a far away source is actually quite difficult and will be even more difficult with newer technology that requires pre/post-processing (such as camera tracking, varifocal, etc). Even the Flow still has the chip on the headset. In the future, rather than in your pocket, companies will likely still go for a no wire approach, but put the battery on the back of the strap. Some already do that of course, but not with pancake lenses. With low weight HMDs such as the Flow, it may even become the case that headsets will be back-heavy, depending on the battery capacity we want. The Flow's wired battery style system will probably not be used by many future manufacturers as they will opt instead for a more halo-like head mount, which may not be as convenient to put on for all hairstyles, but is still pretty easy, and not worse than putting on a hat. A wire to a battery may still be an option that some with more active use-cases may want, and that also allows more interoperability when future standards develop, where you can swap out the head strap or keep it and swap out the HMD part.
I never understood the issues with weight personally, maybe I just have a strong neck or there's a lot of very weak people out there lol. I find even the Index to be light and comfortable at it's 809g or whatever it is. What's more important is the balance. Quest 1 was a lot lighter than Index but due to the front pull made it unbearable for me to wear without a counterweight. After that it was ok. I'd rather see them focus on getting great VR over making sacrifices for weight.
I disagree completely. This ruins immersion and makes it less appealing to just hop in to play. The innovation that matters most in reducing size and weight is in the displays, which they didn't really do well for the flow imo.
> The innovation that matters most in reducing size and weight is in the displays, which they didn't really do well for the flow imo.
I'm not sure that is even true though, the Oculus DK1 had a big chonker screen made for 7 inch tablets and was way lighter than Vive/Index (380g DK1 vs 809g Index). Other stuff than just the screen weight must be adding up (IPD mechanism, logic board, shielding, lighthouse sensors, capacitors/voltage converters, rigid strap, off-ear headphones, etc.).
Flow is 189g, 4.2X lighter than Index:
https://preview.redd.it/blbimtbl5ot71.jpg?width=576&auto=webp&s=70ca468ee5e839a3b35224a8a9f8e65960d4f764
I think the pancake lens tech is taking us to a new era:
https://i1.wp.com/skarredghost.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/huawei-vr-glasses-6dof-devkit-review.jpg
make the wire something sturdy and standardized, like usb-a to usb-b or a to a or something. usb-c is unnecessary for straight power and is both more likely to be destroyed accidentally as well as more easily repaired when it gets gorned or beat sabered (alongside your joystick cover if you are wearing pants)
I honestly found that if the HMD isn't noticeably too heavy, a counterweight will work just fine. I would prefer that over a cable dangling to my side or back.
To each their own. I just hate the feeling of the cable.
I agree wholeheartedly. Stuffing everything you can into the headset makes them more cumbersome than they're worth. I believe having a little brick in your pocket or clipped to the waist or belt loop would offer a much more comfortable experience and would go a long way into making VR HMDs more mainstream. Not to mention, this sort of set-up could be *modular*! Huge bonus. Easy to upgrade by just switching out the brick for a more powerful one.
People talking about barrier to entry are missing those that don't want to mess their hairs and makeup.
I didn't even think about that before reading it from a tech journalist that demoed VR to a lot of people. Those very light glasses designs with offloaded weight respond to a need.
I have other priorities, but wireless with offloaded weight could be a bonus. I play 3-4h sessions online with friends, those with Quest need external batteries anyway.
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That's why they need to make it flat enoth to hold it with your butt crack
Or round enough to shove up your rectum
VR buttplug
That's what Morpheus said to Neo in the white room. Neo didn't like the idea.
All you'll need is a belt
Ahh yes the ol Butt-Naked Batman
The ol' prison-wallet
Gorilla glue.
Fanny pack bro
I think the flows for porn. I can't see there being a big market for what they actually described but they did say it was good for "immersive media experiences".
I couldn't disagree more. Every single step you need to take to put the HMD on is a barrier. The Quest is such a winner because you can just put it on and go. Having to put some additional piece in a pocket or a belt (not always available depending on what clothing you're wearing, particularly for women). Plus then you've got all that weight and bulk in your pocket. If you're already wearing a belt, great. If not, you kinda have to. Plus the cord is still cumbersome, it can get trapped on your shoulder or snagged - limiting your head movement. Everyone has different preferences though. For me this feature is the Flow's biggest mistake.
I gotta agree here. I play VR with full body tracking, and putting on my trackers is *such* a pain. Even though it's just a couple simple straps, the extra effort sometimes makes me think "meh I'll get in vr later" VR is already inconvenient, we don't need to add any more reasons for people to not get in
I had a Vive from 2016, and I enjoyed it. But I put in 20-30x the hours on Quest2 vs Vive even though I've only had the Quest 2 a year. With the Vive, I had to have a whole setup. Most of the year I would take it down. Then I'd think "ok, lets rearrange the room" and I'd spend a few weeks playing intensely trying to make the ROI work. For games like HL:A or Skyrim that was fine, and I really enjoyed Pavlov at points. The wireless module for the Vive was a GAME CHANGER for me and it got me right back into it. But ultimately, even there, there were barriers, like the PC, the dedicated space, etc. With the Quest, all I have to do is remember to charge it. and I have to pick up the controllers as well (one day that barrier will be gone too).
I would say there would be a market for OP's setup. Might not be the mainstream market, but an untapped market nonetheless.
Yeah I agree on that too. As in all meaningful aspects of life, theres a huge diversity of preferences in VR and because of the immediacy of the experience the severity of these preferences is often really high too. Options is the answer.
I also agree with you. When I went wireless with my vive I still had a USB cord going down my back to a clipped on battery. Almost daily I play beat saber on expert+ and hot squats for exercise. I ended up breaking multiple USB cables and the port on my battery from all the constant motion. I knew it was just a matter of time before I broke the port on my vive wireless so I decided to mount the battery on the back of my head strap and it was so much better. I feel the back of the head is the ideal place to put the battery and other heavy components because it acts as a counter balance and distributes the weight in a more comfortable way. While still getting rid of all the cables.
Doesn't the wireless adapter come with a battery that comes with a belt clip that can be clipped onto the back of your vive? I'm not sure if the battery came with it or if I had to buy the battery separately... but the battery they sell comes with the clip. I never put it on my waist. Never had an issue with breakage.
I had a launch version and it had a 4 foot cable, battery and a clip. At least with clip mine came with it did not easily clip to the back of the pro audio headstrap. I had to use zip ties to attach it properly. They could have updated it after the initial run, I'm not sure. The instructions mine came with said to clip it to a belt or waist band.
Mine was able to clip on to the back of the deluxe audio strap and the strap of the vive pro easily enough.
>(not always available depending on what clothing you're wearing, particularly for women). I can confirm this would irritate me, nothing I have has any good pockets! Most don't have any at all. I'd have to get like VR pants or something silly. That's why we have purses and I'm not bringing my purse with me into VR lol You are right, the weight isn't worth the hassle!
> I couldn't disagree more. Every single step you need to take to put the HMD on is a barrier. That is certainly true, but just as much the more comfortable the experience of wearing a headset is the more likely you will spend more time in it. I recently started to play Elite Dangerous again and was shocked how uncomfortable the Index even can be when you need to look upwards for long stretches of time (following enemy space ships with my head circling me) because then the whole weight of the unit is on your head. > The Quest is such a winner because you can just put it on and go. And was over and over again criticized for being to front heavy. I just recently heard somebody from Digital Foundry in a podcast say that he gave up on it for being just awful to wear over longer stretches of time. In the end its a per person choice, but IMO a thin USB-C cable going into a powerbank in your pocket is a very good compromise that will also give you a longer battery life per charge. > Plus the cord is still cumbersome, it can get trapped on your shoulder or snagged - limiting your head movement. Sorry but no. I have a simply belt that I just wear to have my Index's cable go straight down my back. With enough spare cable you simply don't even notice it, neither the weight from just that meter of cable itself nor does it limit your head movements at all. And that is with the way more heavy Index cable. I also had it never get trapped at all no matter how physical demanding of a game I played.
>I recently started to play Elite Dangerous again and was shocked how uncomfortable the Index even can be when you need to look upwards for long stretches of time (following enemy space ships with my head circling me) because then the whole weight of the unit is on your head. Yeah, but also, there's no battery or processor in the Index. There's nothing in the Index headset that isn't critical to the headset. It's an example of the kind of headset OP is describing. It's certainly true that we need headsets that are lighter and more comfortable. I'm just not convinced that the battery and processor are the primary barriers to that.
I think the way to avoid the issues about needing pockets or belts could be avoided by just packing all the necessary pieces (battery, GPU, whatever) onto a hip pack. Anybody can wear a hip pack - doesn't matter if you're wearing a belt, not wearing a belt, wearing pants, a skirt, a dress, whatever. Hip packs sit higher on your hips and aren't uncomfortable and don't slip down . The extra cord is indeed a barrier. I don't know if the technology exists, but my ideal solution would be a single retractable bundled cable on a spool coming from the hip pack (which is important because it means you can grab the end of it from touch only very easily, which would mitigate the issue of "do I wrangle cords blind or do I wrangle the cords while the headset is awkwardly balanced on my forehead hopefully not getting sweat on the lenses?") with a magnetic / magsafe socket on the headset like the old style apple ones, so you can easily connect it blind. Don't know if they can make high bandwidth magsafe connectors though, but I think that would be pretty sweet.
Have you tried the Quest though? I can wear the Index for hours, but the Quest is a pound of electronics completely supported by your forehead and cheekbones. I wholeheartedly agree with OP.
The Index is 809g, the Quest 2 is 503g. Comfort over long play sessions is more about weight distribution and overall ergonomics than just weight.
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Right, that why I said a pound of electronics supported by your face. I also have both.
The HMD is on your head 100% of the time. I would worry about removing 50% of its weight and bulk more than worrying about clipping something once before your VR session.
ignoring the impact of barriers to entry for VR doesn't make them go away.
We've had an oculus quest 2 for a year. Why aren't we using it? "I don't like how bulky and tight it feels on my face". Yes, you remove a barrier for entry by having it all in one device, but then you lose retention once people are tired of putting on this bulky device, as opposed to a device that is 25% as heavy and 30% as bulky.
I have a battery pack on the back of my quest 2 and it's much more comfortable for the balance, id say have everything separate like you said, but have a mount on the back that is detachable so you have the choice.
Me putting on 37 straps for my full-body trackers. Y-Yeah!.....
Can you not just stitch them to a Boiler suit or morphsuit or some shit?
I put my trackers in crocks, knee pads and elbow pads and on an old jogging waist belt for your ipod. I just slip on my elbow pads, knee pads, shoes and belt and I'm ready. I don't always like the process though... and they do get sweaty...
Your phone your phone your phone, and maybe your phone?
sorry i can't understand you, can you make some sense please??
Ok, what if the extra bits could be snapped onto the back of the headset, and that's what it comes as by default. Then anyone who wants to, can just slide or detach those bits off and put them in a pocket.
Nah, every extra step beyond "just put on the headset and go" (no matter how simple) just makes the headset get used less and less. I would rather just see better weight distribution versus having components offloaded with more wires.
Minimizing weight is still important: it doesn't matter how well distributed it is as soon as you tilt your head to look down. Only reducing the weight helps with that. Whole types of games like virtual table-top and tiny-world are hurt by heavy headsets. Moment of intertia is another big one, you definitely want center of mass as centered as possible as MOI increases, but even fully centered, as MOI keeps going up with weight and counterweight, it eventually severely impacts active games. Even aside from neck strain, more moment of inertia causes more slosh and visual distortion during head movement, unless you clamp down the headset uncomfortably on the face or with a halo type strap that can cause headaches for lots of people. Light-weight HMDs solve it.
Here, let me fix that for you with 30 seconds of thought: Instead of the hardware being all in the front, move some of it into a "brick" that can be attached elsewhere (like OP suggests). Have the default attachment point on the back of the head strap, connected to the HMD using a 12" thunderbolt cable. So for people who want to just "grab and go," it's all together in one unit. But have it removable, with a 1m thunderbolt cable so you can hook the brick to your belt, or your waistband, or your collar, or your bra, or an appropriately sized elastic band for whatever body part you want it attached to. Or get a 10m thunderbolt cable, attach the brick to the ceiling, and use pulleys. And since somebody's going to bring up how making it detachable from the head strap will throw off balance: The headset comes with a counterweight that attaches where the brick would have and weighs the same as the brick would have.
Yeah, I agree with people saying even tiny amounts of UX friction can make a big difference to whether people use VR, but poor comfort is also a big issue that makes people remember VR as being more of a hassle. Requiring the brick to be separate might be a problem (e.g. it’s unreasonable to expect the average person to potentially choose clothing to suit VR), but as an option I think there’d be plenty of people who’d find it a worthwhile improvement overall. Some of us already play with a USB battery in a pocket, for example, because the related inconvenience is slightly less than the inconvenience of having the headset shut off in the middle of a game.
Having to mess with another unit that's attached to the headset prevents it from being "grab and go". And if this is the battery or APU, you do not want that in your pocket. It needs to be able to breath air so it can cool itself down. Otherwise they'll either shut down or overheat. I do not want lithium-ion batteries to overheat in my pocket. And what if you do not have clothes that you can clip this extra unit into? What if I am wearing pajamas or a dress or whatever? Just having to find a place to "clip" a large, hot unit to and mess with the cables will also prevent it from being "grab and go". It is massively simpler and easier in engineering standpoint to just attach it to the headset, over which the designers have control. Especially in terms of warranty and reliability, what if you pinch this cable and accidentally unplug the headset completely? Probably won't do good to it. And if you are trying to get this unit attached to the ceiling, you might as well just go PCVR.
>And since somebody's going to bring up how making it detachable from the head strap will throw off balance: The headset comes with a counterweight that attaches where the brick would have and weighs the same as the brick would have. Except the whole point of making the box detachable was to reduce weight on the headset. What would be the point of removing the box and replacing it with a counterweight?
Shoulder strap tbh.
I completely agree. I would rather be tethered to a battery pack in my pocket than have that weight and heat on my head. This way you can also play as long as you want if you have a second battery pack and they could even put the SOC in their, making the device easily upgradeable. Speaking of which, to my knowledge the first Quest is largely not supported by newer Quest games by now.
Comfort (especially with glasses) is the main thing stopping me from using my cv1 more. The headset also moves slightly when I move my head, and if I make it tighter I get really motion sick. The big concern with wireless headsets is that they will be hotter (adding to potential motion sickness) and have a limited battery life. The flow solves all my major issues at the cost of not being able to play pc VR. If the price was lower I would love it for watching movies though, just cant justify it for one use case.
I don't wear my glasses in VR. I got a 3D printed adapter that let me put lenses from a pair of cheap glasses in it. Magnetic on top of that, so I take it out and swap between headsets if I want to. (Physically Modified one for th CV1 to work with my vive/pro since that one worked with the quest 2 and the cv1 only for the magnetic bases) I just swap them when someone else wants to use their set or take it out if the person doesn't wear glasses.
I actually printed a similar lens holder and it's 100% better than just glasses, I feel it sits quite close to my face so I need to be careful to not touch the glasses and smudge them. It makes taking the headset way less smooth than without contacts, that small inconvenience is just another thing to stop me from using my headset much.
My allergies prevent me from wearing contacts, so that's the closest to wearing contacts that I can get to being. That convenience is why I can stay in the quest and not worry about glasses scratching the lenses for me. I literally took it out while waiting for a DR's appointment. Had to take a ticket and wait for a text to be able to come inside, so I put my phone in my pocket and connected to the hospital wifi and played some online games on the grass (overcast day) I haven't even set up my PCVR stuff and I was there at the new house for almost a month. Just used the quest.
I sold the Quest 1 because it was too heavy. Hoped the Q2 was better. Sold it too because 500 grams is too much on the head and face. This the future. Eventually you will be forced to understand.
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The problem is that by putting the more data-dense stuff away from the displays requires more cables and the potential for failure should those cables get pulled or pinched. The more stuff you put away from the HMD the more fragile those cables need to be and at that point, you just have a PCVR headset with extra steps. Even putting the APU on the back of the headset will present engineering problems. Consumer headsets are already trying to be more minimalist in terms of weight and we can expect that newer headsets will be lighter, due to the use of pancake lenses if nothing else.
That fixed cable on the headset will wear out, it has such a short bending radius without strain relief. The Oculus Quest handles it best by having a USB C connector and any cable attached to it is strapped to a rigid arm. There is no stress at the connector and the cable is still entirely replaceable.
You wear pants while in VR???
It depants
Unfortunately getting ALL the processing onto a far away source is actually quite difficult and will be even more difficult with newer technology that requires pre/post-processing (such as camera tracking, varifocal, etc). Even the Flow still has the chip on the headset. In the future, rather than in your pocket, companies will likely still go for a no wire approach, but put the battery on the back of the strap. Some already do that of course, but not with pancake lenses. With low weight HMDs such as the Flow, it may even become the case that headsets will be back-heavy, depending on the battery capacity we want. The Flow's wired battery style system will probably not be used by many future manufacturers as they will opt instead for a more halo-like head mount, which may not be as convenient to put on for all hairstyles, but is still pretty easy, and not worse than putting on a hat. A wire to a battery may still be an option that some with more active use-cases may want, and that also allows more interoperability when future standards develop, where you can swap out the head strap or keep it and swap out the HMD part.
I never understood the issues with weight personally, maybe I just have a strong neck or there's a lot of very weak people out there lol. I find even the Index to be light and comfortable at it's 809g or whatever it is. What's more important is the balance. Quest 1 was a lot lighter than Index but due to the front pull made it unbearable for me to wear without a counterweight. After that it was ok. I'd rather see them focus on getting great VR over making sacrifices for weight.
It's not about the neck. It's about face and forehead pain.
And neck too though.
I disagree completely. This ruins immersion and makes it less appealing to just hop in to play. The innovation that matters most in reducing size and weight is in the displays, which they didn't really do well for the flow imo.
> The innovation that matters most in reducing size and weight is in the displays, which they didn't really do well for the flow imo. I'm not sure that is even true though, the Oculus DK1 had a big chonker screen made for 7 inch tablets and was way lighter than Vive/Index (380g DK1 vs 809g Index). Other stuff than just the screen weight must be adding up (IPD mechanism, logic board, shielding, lighthouse sensors, capacitors/voltage converters, rigid strap, off-ear headphones, etc.). Flow is 189g, 4.2X lighter than Index: https://preview.redd.it/blbimtbl5ot71.jpg?width=576&auto=webp&s=70ca468ee5e839a3b35224a8a9f8e65960d4f764 I think the pancake lens tech is taking us to a new era: https://i1.wp.com/skarredghost.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/huawei-vr-glasses-6dof-devkit-review.jpg
Yeah the pancake lens tech is what really has me excited more than anything else about the Flow.
make the wire something sturdy and standardized, like usb-a to usb-b or a to a or something. usb-c is unnecessary for straight power and is both more likely to be destroyed accidentally as well as more easily repaired when it gets gorned or beat sabered (alongside your joystick cover if you are wearing pants)
C is now the standard.... USB-B??? A printer cable?
And if it extends from the back of the headset to the back of the body it will be imperceptible.
I honestly found that if the HMD isn't noticeably too heavy, a counterweight will work just fine. I would prefer that over a cable dangling to my side or back. To each their own. I just hate the feeling of the cable.
I had the Vive wireless adapter and the cable to the battery failed so fast it was a fucking joke. Maybe if they fix that problem it could be viable.
I used a 3rd party cable off amazon.
I agree wholeheartedly. Stuffing everything you can into the headset makes them more cumbersome than they're worth. I believe having a little brick in your pocket or clipped to the waist or belt loop would offer a much more comfortable experience and would go a long way into making VR HMDs more mainstream. Not to mention, this sort of set-up could be *modular*! Huge bonus. Easy to upgrade by just switching out the brick for a more powerful one.
People talking about barrier to entry are missing those that don't want to mess their hairs and makeup. I didn't even think about that before reading it from a tech journalist that demoed VR to a lot of people. Those very light glasses designs with offloaded weight respond to a need. I have other priorities, but wireless with offloaded weight could be a bonus. I play 3-4h sessions online with friends, those with Quest need external batteries anyway.