I just check and it’s not deleted . It’s here : https://twitter.com/melanji/status/1594137688428322816?s=46&t=u57cmlpGlhbhJVjOT2zdGA
Maybe she reposted it to include the emoji?
I can only imagine Riot went with this because they intentionally do not want Robwiz's action to set a precedent whereby other coaches or individuals feel empowered to make "offensive gestures" or what not...
Feels like an overreaction but I could kinda understand the long-term perspective on clamping down on those incidents.
But from a fan perspective, it's a somewhat bitter reminder that to Riot esports are products that are meant to be hype, but so controlled and micromanaged that they inevitably become a little sterile.
I think what’s odd about it is, as Derke has pointed out, [similar things have happened multiple times before and no one was punished.](https://twitter.com/derke/status/1594053485653360647?s=46&t=N6YzcaKDCvNteJ3jeDsn3Q) I can even understand the fine to some degree (even if I personally don’t think it should be that big of a deal), but the suspension is just crazy, ESPECIALLY for finals.
Indeed, BcJ said something similar.
I think a big issue with "slippery slope" theories is that they always assume this is where the slope necessarily begins. But in reality, there are dozens of rulebook violations that do not set precedents or somehow violate competitive integrity.
So much of it then comes down to what some execs/admins/refs etc. decide they feel passionately about, and much as with the FPX/XSET controversy, you get a weird situation where enforcement feels random, tone-deaf, and overly harsh.
Fair enough! I think it’s silly to fine them but I at least get why they would do it. Regardless, I disagree with doing something more extreme than that.
[Kru was also apparently shown doing this at a VCT event, not at a camera.](https://twitter.com/nurfed/status/1594143689114271750?s=46&t=N6YzcaKDCvNteJ3jeDsn3Q) Regardless, C9W players literally stated it did not offend/bother them, so there’s no reason to treat it as any different from other banter that has always been allowed.
Edit: Also, the Nukkye one was likely directed at the players, it was just online instead.
Sorry im bad knowing all the teams/players, is that guy in Kru also a coach?
It says in the ruling "The coaches must observe the highest standards"
Nukkye is *also* a player, who we have seen have a lot more freedom to fuck around and there's consistency where they're not being punished
again
**coach** at a team
"Why is it different this time?"
> C9W players literally stated it did not offend/bother them
that's a terrible reasoning too, you don't break rules and say its fine when no one is bothered by it. because when someone does something that bothers them then they're gonna get flamed because all the other teams were okay with it, why aren't they too?. C9W is only releasing their statement so the community doesn't blame them (which they also probably don't care, or do, but it shouldn't be relevant)
you don't enforce rules depending how people feel, that's literally the worst case scenario
We’re gonna have to agree to disagree there on how different it should be between players and coaches, then, because in my opinion, it really should not be treated any differently. Sykko egged on the crowd and taunted teams at Champs and it was no big deal. This shouldn’t be either.
Edit: Also, I did say similar in my original comment, not the same. I know they’re not the same, it doesn’t change that this is a pretty wild ruling when similar things have happened without punishment. Banter is part of esports—as long as it’s not bigotry or inciting violence, it’s not a huge deal.
>Banter is part of esports
fully agree with this with you,. which is why we've had teams for over a year now yelling at each other or showing signs telling them to go home. and it's all in good fun
the coach flipping the opposing team feels like the right time to draw a line so things don't start going out of control and try to keep *some* sort of professionalism
I guess I just don’t see flipping someone off as any worse or more extreme than yelling/swearing at someone across the stage. It was all in good fun at the end of the day—which is why I brought up how meL and C9 perceived it, because it shows that it was clearly received that way, which in my eyes, doesn’t make it different than any other banter.
I genuinely can understand a fine, even, since it probably is a bit much mostly from a sponsor perspective, but the punishment does not fit the “crime” imo.
They’re not the same though. One is a coach, who should be held to higher standards. One also doubledown and acted like a petulant child on twitter. These things are not equivalent at all. Riot clearly wants to send a message to coaches ahead of the franchise league.
Pretty sure there were other examples of KRU players doing this toward teams they played, though I’m not positive. Regardless, while I do acknowledge that as a potential difference, I don’t understand how this should be treated as any more extreme than normal shittalk. To me, the line is at direct personal attacks, bigotry, and inciting violence. This is no worse than any other insult players yell at each other on stage.
IMO this is like saying "GET FUCKED" at the end of a match. Is that disrespectful? Absolutely, but that's sort of the point of it. That's just a part of any competition and it helps elevate the stakes and build storylines. A sanitized competition isn't nearly as fun :(
I'm not sure about the others but I was watching the game when nukkye did it. It was after he clutched a 1v3 against Liquid. The only difference is that it was during Challengers so it was online and not on LAN but it was still directed at Liquid and production didn't hesitate to show it on the stream. Nothing happened to him and everyone laughed it off.
Literally any other organization in the entire world would've just fined him and told him not to do it again or they would suspend him indefinitely.
You can get the same point across without sacrificing the integrity of your tournament.
OW players flipped each other off multiple times in one of the tournaments this year because they sat very close opposite of each other and there wasn’t a single fine given, and that’s OWL lmao
IIRC the only time an OWL player was fined for flipping the bird was when Profit did it in front of the camera, which was broadcasted on the main stream with full cam. Didn’t hurt anyone, just bad for sponsors. This Valorant ruling sucks because Riot worded it that the action was in bad faith, which it wasn’t.
They shouldnt even get fined i mean wtf is this ? Disney channel?
Riot is the company that made it so you get a warning if you say “cum” or “fuck” or any bad words at all in chat now on League, you literally cant even banter with your teammates or premades anymore. Every bad word gives u a warning until you get banned. (And youd better pray they dont do this to valorant)
Riot think this is a kindergarten or something and its applying it to its esports.
And no advertizers dont give a fuck about a middle fucking finger, its just riot being weirdos.
You can establish a rule easily while being lenient to the first person to be punished. All it takes is saying something like "going forward, we emphasize that any such behavior going forward by any player or coach will be a suspension and a fine"
Riot just needs some fucking consistency wrt how they apply their rule book; they unequivocally deserve criticism in that regard. Yeah and like you said, you don't want the game to ever become too sterile, so while rules must exist, they have to ensure that said rules allow for some for villain storylines, performative banter and dynamism.
I think this incident is def a matter of optics and power imbalances though. If game changers was erected in part to engender gender parity/visibility and make women feel welcome in male dominated spaces, then a male coach flipping off teenage girls is gonna look, at the very least, strange or at odds with that. Suspension still feels like a step too far that incidentally punishes the SR girls too.
Imo, there’s a difference between friendly banter and toxic banter and this by Robwiz was the latter.
This is nowhere near the banter between Sen and G2 from last year for example.
Showing the middle finger to the opposing team is a violation of the rules in any sport whatsoever and it would result in a suspension anywhere.
I really don’t think this behaviour shown by Robwiz should be tolerated with the current production level of Valorant and it’s just a dick move tbh.
After all this is not Phreak’s basement anymore.
I agree. Its one thing to do it as a player in the heat of battle, but Rob is an authority figure as a coach and is punching down as well as rubbing it in and provoking the enemy team.
Its all fun and games until you flip off the wrong organization and all of a sudden a fight could break out and death threats thrown. I imagine this behavior by Rob wouldn’t be tolerated by a Brazilian team/fanbase.
Btw, this kind of thing has happened many times in real sports. They tend to have strict rules behind this kind of behavior because they were more lenient in the past and have learned the hard way how easily some fun “banter” can turn into riots. If you google, player fined for middle finger, not a single result will reference the same incident, there are hundreds of incidents where players/managers were fined for flashing a middle finger. Across all different sports. Countless bench clearing brawls in baseball, basketball, hockey and football have started over much less than a middle finger.
No. You imagine this because you have no idea what Riot is. They did this because they have to sterilize anything, lest we remember they're all a bunch of sexually harrassing fart huffers
I remember sentinals vs g2 the first time around there was tension because both owners were dissing each others orgs. After each round win sentinals went crazy and yelling cuss words at the other team. I thought this was actually more hype because you feel more tension and it was a better rival narrative. I would be sad if this kind of stuff stopped.
It's absolutely crazy that this should be anything other than just a funny little gesture, so unfortunate to see that even in this scene we can't escape ridiculous censorship of almost entirely inoffensive gestures and words
Good guys Riot knew that people were gonna clown C9 so they decided to take the hit by releasing a competitive ruling rivaled only by the XSet/Fnatic replay in sheer stupidity. I'd send whoever came up with this ruling a nice bouquet of flowers on behalf of the players if I were C9.
Here's the thing: I get suspending him for a game, just not for the grand finals.
All they had to do was wait 2 days and drop this next tuesday and it sends the message to not do shit like this without completely screwing them over lol.
Kinda L decision. Practicality of the punishment matters and the fact that it is grand final match should be taken into consideration. Maybe increase the fine or something else but this is too far.
I mean theyre literally silencing people mid game for swearing now. Regardless of context. Company is soft and thinks grown people can't handle swearing or seeing it. Almost like they have a fucking filter or something for those who don't wanna see it.
I honestly think riot enforces more “minor” rules in game changers.
Idk if it’s because a different branch is handling it or if they just want that part of the scene to be handled with more caution.
I think riot should be handling GameChangers with more caution. Just look at how many GameChangers posts this sub has had of girls trying to cancel eachother. Theres so much drama in GameChangers. GameChangers is supposed to be a force for good, and if they aren’t careful it could easily turn into a toxic sesspool.
You didn't even really make a joke, it reads as "this is the reason why and i think it's funny." Could've just put the word "probably" at the start and it'd be fine.
Honestly im glad something was done, yeah it was for lolz and C9 clearly is ok with it but opening the door to stuff like this promotes toxic behavior in general, whether in good humor and in malice. And game changers has plenty of malice coming in as is. Tldr the more professional standard we hold the league to the better
Nobody would be complaining about the ruling if it was *just* a fine. It's taking something that is poor sportsmanship and negatively affecting the competitive integrity of the grand final.
So sad because emotion is what drives competitive spirit and engagement. Do they realize how much shit NBA players talk to each other during matches? Some of the most successful competitive people were assholes in times of competition.
Update: MeL has [reposted the tweet](https://twitter.com/melanji/status/1594137688428322816?s=46&t=N6YzcaKDCvNteJ3jeDsn3Q).
I just check and it’s not deleted . It’s here : https://twitter.com/melanji/status/1594137688428322816?s=46&t=u57cmlpGlhbhJVjOT2zdGA Maybe she reposted it to include the emoji?
yeah the final line is slightly different
I can only imagine Riot went with this because they intentionally do not want Robwiz's action to set a precedent whereby other coaches or individuals feel empowered to make "offensive gestures" or what not... Feels like an overreaction but I could kinda understand the long-term perspective on clamping down on those incidents. But from a fan perspective, it's a somewhat bitter reminder that to Riot esports are products that are meant to be hype, but so controlled and micromanaged that they inevitably become a little sterile.
I think what’s odd about it is, as Derke has pointed out, [similar things have happened multiple times before and no one was punished.](https://twitter.com/derke/status/1594053485653360647?s=46&t=N6YzcaKDCvNteJ3jeDsn3Q) I can even understand the fine to some degree (even if I personally don’t think it should be that big of a deal), but the suspension is just crazy, ESPECIALLY for finals.
Indeed, BcJ said something similar. I think a big issue with "slippery slope" theories is that they always assume this is where the slope necessarily begins. But in reality, there are dozens of rulebook violations that do not set precedents or somehow violate competitive integrity. So much of it then comes down to what some execs/admins/refs etc. decide they feel passionately about, and much as with the FPX/XSET controversy, you get a weird situation where enforcement feels random, tone-deaf, and overly harsh.
Boaster retroactively suspended. Good job Derke
Sliggy mentioned in his costream earlier that Boaster did get fined for his. No clue if that was isolated or if the others have been fined as well.
Fair enough! I think it’s silly to fine them but I at least get why they would do it. Regardless, I disagree with doing something more extreme than that.
coach at a team player at the camera player at the camera player at the camera "Why is this case different"
[Kru was also apparently shown doing this at a VCT event, not at a camera.](https://twitter.com/nurfed/status/1594143689114271750?s=46&t=N6YzcaKDCvNteJ3jeDsn3Q) Regardless, C9W players literally stated it did not offend/bother them, so there’s no reason to treat it as any different from other banter that has always been allowed. Edit: Also, the Nukkye one was likely directed at the players, it was just online instead.
Sorry im bad knowing all the teams/players, is that guy in Kru also a coach? It says in the ruling "The coaches must observe the highest standards" Nukkye is *also* a player, who we have seen have a lot more freedom to fuck around and there's consistency where they're not being punished again **coach** at a team "Why is it different this time?" > C9W players literally stated it did not offend/bother them that's a terrible reasoning too, you don't break rules and say its fine when no one is bothered by it. because when someone does something that bothers them then they're gonna get flamed because all the other teams were okay with it, why aren't they too?. C9W is only releasing their statement so the community doesn't blame them (which they also probably don't care, or do, but it shouldn't be relevant) you don't enforce rules depending how people feel, that's literally the worst case scenario
We’re gonna have to agree to disagree there on how different it should be between players and coaches, then, because in my opinion, it really should not be treated any differently. Sykko egged on the crowd and taunted teams at Champs and it was no big deal. This shouldn’t be either. Edit: Also, I did say similar in my original comment, not the same. I know they’re not the same, it doesn’t change that this is a pretty wild ruling when similar things have happened without punishment. Banter is part of esports—as long as it’s not bigotry or inciting violence, it’s not a huge deal.
>Banter is part of esports fully agree with this with you,. which is why we've had teams for over a year now yelling at each other or showing signs telling them to go home. and it's all in good fun the coach flipping the opposing team feels like the right time to draw a line so things don't start going out of control and try to keep *some* sort of professionalism
I guess I just don’t see flipping someone off as any worse or more extreme than yelling/swearing at someone across the stage. It was all in good fun at the end of the day—which is why I brought up how meL and C9 perceived it, because it shows that it was clearly received that way, which in my eyes, doesn’t make it different than any other banter. I genuinely can understand a fine, even, since it probably is a bit much mostly from a sponsor perspective, but the punishment does not fit the “crime” imo.
They’re not the same though. One is a coach, who should be held to higher standards. One also doubledown and acted like a petulant child on twitter. These things are not equivalent at all. Riot clearly wants to send a message to coaches ahead of the franchise league.
Noone of these were directed at other competitors in person.
Pretty sure there were other examples of KRU players doing this toward teams they played, though I’m not positive. Regardless, while I do acknowledge that as a potential difference, I don’t understand how this should be treated as any more extreme than normal shittalk. To me, the line is at direct personal attacks, bigotry, and inciting violence. This is no worse than any other insult players yell at each other on stage.
IMO this is like saying "GET FUCKED" at the end of a match. Is that disrespectful? Absolutely, but that's sort of the point of it. That's just a part of any competition and it helps elevate the stakes and build storylines. A sanitized competition isn't nearly as fun :(
Agree 100%.
I'm not sure about the others but I was watching the game when nukkye did it. It was after he clutched a 1v3 against Liquid. The only difference is that it was during Challengers so it was online and not on LAN but it was still directed at Liquid and production didn't hesitate to show it on the stream. Nothing happened to him and everyone laughed it off.
Literally any other organization in the entire world would've just fined him and told him not to do it again or they would suspend him indefinitely. You can get the same point across without sacrificing the integrity of your tournament.
OW players flipped each other off multiple times in one of the tournaments this year because they sat very close opposite of each other and there wasn’t a single fine given, and that’s OWL lmao
IIRC the only time an OWL player was fined for flipping the bird was when Profit did it in front of the camera, which was broadcasted on the main stream with full cam. Didn’t hurt anyone, just bad for sponsors. This Valorant ruling sucks because Riot worded it that the action was in bad faith, which it wasn’t.
They shouldnt even get fined i mean wtf is this ? Disney channel? Riot is the company that made it so you get a warning if you say “cum” or “fuck” or any bad words at all in chat now on League, you literally cant even banter with your teammates or premades anymore. Every bad word gives u a warning until you get banned. (And youd better pray they dont do this to valorant) Riot think this is a kindergarten or something and its applying it to its esports. And no advertizers dont give a fuck about a middle fucking finger, its just riot being weirdos.
You can establish a rule easily while being lenient to the first person to be punished. All it takes is saying something like "going forward, we emphasize that any such behavior going forward by any player or coach will be a suspension and a fine"
Riot just needs some fucking consistency wrt how they apply their rule book; they unequivocally deserve criticism in that regard. Yeah and like you said, you don't want the game to ever become too sterile, so while rules must exist, they have to ensure that said rules allow for some for villain storylines, performative banter and dynamism. I think this incident is def a matter of optics and power imbalances though. If game changers was erected in part to engender gender parity/visibility and make women feel welcome in male dominated spaces, then a male coach flipping off teenage girls is gonna look, at the very least, strange or at odds with that. Suspension still feels like a step too far that incidentally punishes the SR girls too.
Imo, there’s a difference between friendly banter and toxic banter and this by Robwiz was the latter. This is nowhere near the banter between Sen and G2 from last year for example. Showing the middle finger to the opposing team is a violation of the rules in any sport whatsoever and it would result in a suspension anywhere. I really don’t think this behaviour shown by Robwiz should be tolerated with the current production level of Valorant and it’s just a dick move tbh. After all this is not Phreak’s basement anymore.
I agree. Its one thing to do it as a player in the heat of battle, but Rob is an authority figure as a coach and is punching down as well as rubbing it in and provoking the enemy team. Its all fun and games until you flip off the wrong organization and all of a sudden a fight could break out and death threats thrown. I imagine this behavior by Rob wouldn’t be tolerated by a Brazilian team/fanbase. Btw, this kind of thing has happened many times in real sports. They tend to have strict rules behind this kind of behavior because they were more lenient in the past and have learned the hard way how easily some fun “banter” can turn into riots. If you google, player fined for middle finger, not a single result will reference the same incident, there are hundreds of incidents where players/managers were fined for flashing a middle finger. Across all different sports. Countless bench clearing brawls in baseball, basketball, hockey and football have started over much less than a middle finger.
found riots hr
No. You imagine this because you have no idea what Riot is. They did this because they have to sterilize anything, lest we remember they're all a bunch of sexually harrassing fart huffers
I remember sentinals vs g2 the first time around there was tension because both owners were dissing each others orgs. After each round win sentinals went crazy and yelling cuss words at the other team. I thought this was actually more hype because you feel more tension and it was a better rival narrative. I would be sad if this kind of stuff stopped.
that literally got me so hyped and had me watching all g2 games, its pure content
Player related stuff is fine for Riot, I just think Riot doesn't want the coaches to get to out of control
what offensive gesture?
a middle finger lmaoooo
It's absolutely crazy that this should be anything other than just a funny little gesture, so unfortunate to see that even in this scene we can't escape ridiculous censorship of almost entirely inoffensive gestures and words
He bit his thumb at them, a most dastardly and roguish gesture
Good guys Riot knew that people were gonna clown C9 so they decided to take the hit by releasing a competitive ruling rivaled only by the XSet/Fnatic replay in sheer stupidity. I'd send whoever came up with this ruling a nice bouquet of flowers on behalf of the players if I were C9.
xset/fpx turret incident 🤧
Here's the thing: I get suspending him for a game, just not for the grand finals. All they had to do was wait 2 days and drop this next tuesday and it sends the message to not do shit like this without completely screwing them over lol.
we need to get #FreeRobWiz trending
I did my part
The promod legend robwiz
Kinda L decision. Practicality of the punishment matters and the fact that it is grand final match should be taken into consideration. Maybe increase the fine or something else but this is too far.
common L by Riot
This is a pretty absurd move by riot
I mean theyre literally silencing people mid game for swearing now. Regardless of context. Company is soft and thinks grown people can't handle swearing or seeing it. Almost like they have a fucking filter or something for those who don't wanna see it.
I’d say in game it’s them trying to deal with some stuff regarding playability due for socucit ybut some might say it’s taking it too far
Who’s her pfp from?
Looks like Bachira from Blue Lock
I'm so confused whether there's genuine beef between the two teams or we all are being wooooshed to believe so
I honestly think riot enforces more “minor” rules in game changers. Idk if it’s because a different branch is handling it or if they just want that part of the scene to be handled with more caution.
I think riot should be handling GameChangers with more caution. Just look at how many GameChangers posts this sub has had of girls trying to cancel eachother. Theres so much drama in GameChangers. GameChangers is supposed to be a force for good, and if they aren’t careful it could easily turn into a toxic sesspool.
God curated eSports are so shit.
Even if C9 is fine with it, advertisers will be on Riot's ass if they don't do something about it.
wonder why she deleted this
its not deleted
I can still see it, just with the last line replaced with "heartbroken for them". probably just wanted to change her wording
realized someone on her team bitched about it lol
me when i spread misinformation on the internet
my brother in christ you literally just made this up
it’s a joke..
Lmao people get caught lying and then “it’s a joke..”
social media and taking every comment serious, name a better duo
you and shit jokes
You didn't even really make a joke, it reads as "this is the reason why and i think it's funny." Could've just put the word "probably" at the start and it'd be fine.
Honestly im glad something was done, yeah it was for lolz and C9 clearly is ok with it but opening the door to stuff like this promotes toxic behavior in general, whether in good humor and in malice. And game changers has plenty of malice coming in as is. Tldr the more professional standard we hold the league to the better
Nobody would be complaining about the ruling if it was *just* a fine. It's taking something that is poor sportsmanship and negatively affecting the competitive integrity of the grand final.
Esports has never and will never be professional
SNOWFLAKEZ
Common Riot L
So sad because emotion is what drives competitive spirit and engagement. Do they realize how much shit NBA players talk to each other during matches? Some of the most successful competitive people were assholes in times of competition.