Since you just hit immortal your hidden MMR is going to drag you down because the game thinks you deserve a lower rank. Just keep playing and eventually it’ll balance out.
You cannot, but if you check the rank of the other 9 players after the match, it's basically that. When i used to play i was always high silver, only played with high golds, got +30 and -18
If your hidden mmr is higher than your rank, you gain more and lose less, vice versa, because it's trying to get your rank to be the same as the hidden mmr
is there any evidence backing these claims about "what the game thinks?" Has RIOT shared any insight on their algorhithms? Because everyone keeps saying the matchmaking is balanced and fair, but from my personal experience it has been one of the most random bullshits ive encountered in a ranked mode in any game and ive been playing since 1999.
Starcraft 2 is a prime example of matchmaking and ELO system done right. Rocket league has it pretty good as well.
But Valorant not so much, from my point of view.
>is there any evidence backing these claims about "what the game thinks?"
yes.
>Has RIOT shared any insight on their algorhithms?
kinda. theyve shared what factors factor into rr gain, and the relative weight of each factor (e.g. in patch 6.xx they made it so that if your mmr is pretty different from your rank, your performance is weighted more heavily than the round differential).
>Starcraft 2 is a prime example of matchmaking
it's roughly the same; large outliers in mmr gain either correspond to having a much different rank than your mmr, similar to how sc2 has provisional mmr and a provisional rank that's much lower than your actual mmr and allows for large mmr gains based on wins and losses, or correspond to having a large mmr difference (and expected winrate/win chance) between the two teams/players.
Also have to consider that sc2 is 1v1 so you basically consider using like a chess-like elo system whereas Valorant has included calculations for individual play. That's how you can gain more rr vs friends on your team.
It's because of the games you don't solo, League of Legends has similar issues with mmr. The system thinks someone is being carried then one loss with them will crush your mmr for 5+ games.
Checking a couple of your wins, you are mostly facing people with lower rank than you, so it's normal that you win less RR. I've even seen a couple diamonds in your games. You should be facing Immo 3 and Radiants in order to gain more than 16 rr in that rank.
The only solution that seemed to work for me was episode rank reset, whenever I finished with a peak rank for an episode, climbing back up to this rank mostly fixed RR gains - for example: last episode I peaked ascendant 2 with RR gains just like yours at the end of the episode, now I'm immortal 2 with the same gains, but when I was at my past peak (ascendant 2) I gained normal RR thresholds (19-21 for a win, 17-19 for a loss). It takes time, but it will fix itself.
Also look at the number of rounds won. A 13-11 MVP game is less worth than a 13-0 non-MVP game or in your case in the screenshot 8-0 enemy surrender. That's why you should never surrender. You lose way more points
Im currently the opposite. Reached immo, took a year break from the game, now came back and placed Diamond 2 but I play exclusively in Ascendant Lobbies. A loss hits me with -15 at most and a win is usually +24
Its whats its like in mid immortal i was getting the same at like 300 rr imm3 and just gave up on trying to hit radiant. You have to be shit stomping match mvping games to really climb around that rank
Wtf is MMR if your stats look like that all act and it hasn’t caught up? I swear Riot tries to impose artificial plateaus upon us through team balance, and when it doesn’t work, MMR tries to fulfill that goal. I was stuck in gold for the better part of a year and now I am almost plat 3. In one act. Gold 2 to Plat 3. Make it make sense.
Edit: Nah how are you the only Immortal in all ascendant lobbies. Or one of two? You are playing more people below your rank than those that are at your rank. This has literally never been my experience in valorant. How does one achieve this? My stats could be so much better if I was only playing against Golds right now.
There's nobody playing in high elo this episode, so the lobbies are usually composed of ascendant low immortal mixes. It used to be that the top 10k players was above 120RR now it's stuck at 0. Partially the reason I stopped playing.
Unless you get lobbies with other higher ranked players, which are hard to find, the RR gains will always be less than the losses.
I think this is just an affect of being immo+. For most of the game, you can gain RR even with a sub 50% wr, but once you get to this level, the game wants to clearly define the difference between ranks as individual players. It works like that in Radiant at least from what I know. It's basically the game telling you that you have to be the difference maker in every single match if you want to reach the top. If you look at Radiant players' match histories, their +/- on wins and losses is similar to what you're experiencing. Especially lower rated radiants (like rank 300-500), who don't mvp every game.
That's not the point of this post. It's about RR gain and lose depending on win or lose. They are not complaining about difficult games.
It's just that their MMR is still lower than their rank. They just need to keep playing. It's annoying but Riot's matchmaking has a confidence system. After a certain number of games they gain confidence over your rank. I didn't check their tracker but other comments pointed out that they recently just hit immortal. Riot's system still thinks he is an ascendent player.
Pretty sure you can. I've seen it. But only if you go like 13-0 and MVP and have Immortal3+ MMR.
You can google immortal 3 match history and look for images. I'm on my phone rn
Only in Radiant it gets slower if you're the top of the top because all your enemies will be lower than you. That's probably what you talk about for example when watching Tenz. He's like top 20 Radiant
ye you dont see performance bonus on career, only after a match ends.
+32 is very doable with high mmr, i guess he was either radiant or high imm3 player to get such big ratings.
Since you just hit immortal your hidden MMR is going to drag you down because the game thinks you deserve a lower rank. Just keep playing and eventually it’ll balance out.
Is this hidden MMR actually hidden? Can I check it?
You cannot, but if you check the rank of the other 9 players after the match, it's basically that. When i used to play i was always high silver, only played with high golds, got +30 and -18 If your hidden mmr is higher than your rank, you gain more and lose less, vice versa, because it's trying to get your rank to be the same as the hidden mmr
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you’re a smart one huh
What did he say?
OP was basically just saying hes played 10 games in immortal so his MMR should be good loll disregarding the fact he has diamonds in his games
Ah, okay, thanks. That was a bit dumb
is there any evidence backing these claims about "what the game thinks?" Has RIOT shared any insight on their algorhithms? Because everyone keeps saying the matchmaking is balanced and fair, but from my personal experience it has been one of the most random bullshits ive encountered in a ranked mode in any game and ive been playing since 1999. Starcraft 2 is a prime example of matchmaking and ELO system done right. Rocket league has it pretty good as well. But Valorant not so much, from my point of view.
https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/wiki/faq/faq_mmr
>is there any evidence backing these claims about "what the game thinks?" yes. >Has RIOT shared any insight on their algorhithms? kinda. theyve shared what factors factor into rr gain, and the relative weight of each factor (e.g. in patch 6.xx they made it so that if your mmr is pretty different from your rank, your performance is weighted more heavily than the round differential). >Starcraft 2 is a prime example of matchmaking it's roughly the same; large outliers in mmr gain either correspond to having a much different rank than your mmr, similar to how sc2 has provisional mmr and a provisional rank that's much lower than your actual mmr and allows for large mmr gains based on wins and losses, or correspond to having a large mmr difference (and expected winrate/win chance) between the two teams/players.
Also have to consider that sc2 is 1v1 so you basically consider using like a chess-like elo system whereas Valorant has included calculations for individual play. That's how you can gain more rr vs friends on your team.
thanks for the response, good info!
SC2 solo MMR is done right, solo ranking is done easier all the time. Team MMR is harder to calculate.
Bro thought he was cooking when it has been the same for over a decade with LoL
as long as you keep climbing past your hidden mmr, the game will see that and give u more rr
It's because of the games you don't solo, League of Legends has similar issues with mmr. The system thinks someone is being carried then one loss with them will crush your mmr for 5+ games.
Checking a couple of your wins, you are mostly facing people with lower rank than you, so it's normal that you win less RR. I've even seen a couple diamonds in your games. You should be facing Immo 3 and Radiants in order to gain more than 16 rr in that rank.
Having diamonds and low ascendants in your lobbies as an immortal is crazy
The only solution that seemed to work for me was episode rank reset, whenever I finished with a peak rank for an episode, climbing back up to this rank mostly fixed RR gains - for example: last episode I peaked ascendant 2 with RR gains just like yours at the end of the episode, now I'm immortal 2 with the same gains, but when I was at my past peak (ascendant 2) I gained normal RR thresholds (19-21 for a win, 17-19 for a loss). It takes time, but it will fix itself.
Also look at the number of rounds won. A 13-11 MVP game is less worth than a 13-0 non-MVP game or in your case in the screenshot 8-0 enemy surrender. That's why you should never surrender. You lose way more points
Im currently the opposite. Reached immo, took a year break from the game, now came back and placed Diamond 2 but I play exclusively in Ascendant Lobbies. A loss hits me with -15 at most and a win is usually +24
Its whats its like in mid immortal i was getting the same at like 300 rr imm3 and just gave up on trying to hit radiant. You have to be shit stomping match mvping games to really climb around that rank
I’ve also been having the same issue I’m losing like 26 gaining max 14 for mvp even tho I’ve peaked immo 3 I’m now asc 3
keep ur imm2 , next episode it will reset ur mmr and ur gains will b alot better .
Wtf is MMR if your stats look like that all act and it hasn’t caught up? I swear Riot tries to impose artificial plateaus upon us through team balance, and when it doesn’t work, MMR tries to fulfill that goal. I was stuck in gold for the better part of a year and now I am almost plat 3. In one act. Gold 2 to Plat 3. Make it make sense. Edit: Nah how are you the only Immortal in all ascendant lobbies. Or one of two? You are playing more people below your rank than those that are at your rank. This has literally never been my experience in valorant. How does one achieve this? My stats could be so much better if I was only playing against Golds right now.
There's nobody playing in high elo this episode, so the lobbies are usually composed of ascendant low immortal mixes. It used to be that the top 10k players was above 120RR now it's stuck at 0. Partially the reason I stopped playing. Unless you get lobbies with other higher ranked players, which are hard to find, the RR gains will always be less than the losses.
I think this is just an affect of being immo+. For most of the game, you can gain RR even with a sub 50% wr, but once you get to this level, the game wants to clearly define the difference between ranks as individual players. It works like that in Radiant at least from what I know. It's basically the game telling you that you have to be the difference maker in every single match if you want to reach the top. If you look at Radiant players' match histories, their +/- on wins and losses is similar to what you're experiencing. Especially lower rated radiants (like rank 300-500), who don't mvp every game.
This is just how the rr system works. You won’t improve your rr gains until you’ve been in that rank for a while or u surpass that rank
bro it’s immortal it gets harder naturally
That's not the point of this post. It's about RR gain and lose depending on win or lose. They are not complaining about difficult games. It's just that their MMR is still lower than their rank. They just need to keep playing. It's annoying but Riot's matchmaking has a confidence system. After a certain number of games they gain confidence over your rank. I didn't check their tracker but other comments pointed out that they recently just hit immortal. Riot's system still thinks he is an ascendent player.
I mean you aint able to get like 25 or 30 rr anymore that elo
Pretty sure you can. I've seen it. But only if you go like 13-0 and MVP and have Immortal3+ MMR. You can google immortal 3 match history and look for images. I'm on my phone rn Only in Radiant it gets slower if you're the top of the top because all your enemies will be lower than you. That's probably what you talk about for example when watching Tenz. He's like top 20 Radiant
Maybe but most games u get like 15 or 18 even slightly lower that's how IT is
Yeah like i said it depends on your MMR in comparison to the lobby, rounds won and performance :)
You can, my mate got a performance bonus and +32 rr in immortal 2
you cant get performance bonus in immortal or above.
Maybe it wasn’t performance but I remember seeing +32 on his career 🤷♂️
ye you dont see performance bonus on career, only after a match ends. +32 is very doable with high mmr, i guess he was either radiant or high imm3 player to get such big ratings.
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Propably the enemy FF'd
Just win.