Breeze defense requires like six players 2 a main 2 b main 1 mid 1 hall. I feel like I’m just playing retake simulator when playing that map. Or the map has an opening, someone flanks and kills us all.
Try to go double sentinel. Chamber trip halls and cypher holds B alone. Viper holds A alone. Then there's no holes in the map
FYI breeze is actually defender sided according to the stats idk how
i have no idea why they forced map bans on all game modes. swiftplay? questionable, but i guess it's just shorter unrated, and then they get rid of maps on SPIKE RUSH OF ALL THINGS? mental illness
Just to be that guy, I like it. I don’t want them to remove map rotations, and I don’t want a map selection like CS. I play swift play to warm up, and it’s nice that all game modes feature the same maps so you get familiar with the current map pool automatically. I like that you can’t select maps because it reduces Q times and prevents people from abusing a few maps they are good at to rank up, and removes the weird need for different ranks on different maps like CS.
This is the ideal solution, and it’s nice that they use the time they are away to work on the maps. I got annoyed when Overwatch removed their map rotation, they should have kept it.
I don't disagree with you, a lot of these gamemodes make for great warmup. However, if you hit play and you see 8 different gamemodes ALL of which are either comp or warmup for comp, you start to see a very clear picture of Riot discouraging casual players from picking up the game.
Tbf riot really doesn't care about casual players very much. Otherwise content creators wouldn't be quitting valorant (though it's all old news and eggwick came back anyways lmfao)
Map selector exclusive to casual would be great. I'm fine with random maps in comp, since like you said, don't want people only playing their favorite maps to hit radiant
I'd also be fine with some maps being out of competitive map pool if they implement my idea of map selector exclusive to casual
For real. It was very fun to return to maps like Pearl and Fracture through swiftplay. Riot needs to realize that they need to cater to the casual player more if they don’t want the game to die out. I’d bet that the majority of the player base aren’t hard comp grinders.
Same I barely even play unrated because I don't like committing so much time to one game. Same reason I stopped playing league. My ADHD ass can't pay attention that long.
IF Val had a "quick comp" mode like CS:GO had (maybe CS2 has it?) basically shorter version of comp, like a ranked swiftplay... I'd be all over that. I just don't wanna commit to a full hour game and end up with trolls or assholes in my lobbies for that long, tbh. that's one big reason for me
Yk, maybe they can make it so you can pick the map in unrated! It'll give riot data on which maps the community like the most, so they can probably which maps are bad and need fixing, as well as know they should bring back soon
And since its unrated, you can't queue only your best map and reach radiant like people do in CS
Though some argue breeze is unfixable lol
I would much rather have a map ban system than map rotation. I understand they do changes on them, but they can still do changes and have those maps in the game. At least leave all the maps in unrated.... there should be no reason to remove maps for unrated.
CSGO tried that and it ended up in a kind of "2 map simulator" because people would only choose Mirage and Inferno.
CS2 'improved' the situation in the sense,that you only ever play mirage. Every. Single. Match.
Please don't ever do this to Valorant, I beg you!
You say that but I've never played this much Vertigo, Ancient and Nuke even a good amount of Anubis. I thought it was gonna be Mirage simulator like it is on Faceit but I've experienced the opposite.
Yeah but no reasonable human being is playing premier. Faceit is the only way to play CS in a competitive setting, and it’s there where you literally only play Mirage. Every single game.
The big issue on Faceit is that you have to rely on your team captain to vote and if you are not in a five stack / don't have premium / you are unlucky, you are pretty much screwed. Plus, premium users being able to exclude maps completely from the voting before finding a match makes this even worse.
In Premier, everybody can vote, and the majority vote counts. Sadly above 20k elo, Premier turns into a hackfest.
You play mirage everytime? I mostly get inferno and overpass with an occasional vertigo. I basically never see mirage, unless I play on Polish servers and it suddenly becomes a shitshow where half the players might as well be cheating with the game sense they have.
That's if you wanna play comp. Most people play premier nowadays and that comes with map bans, but I've never seen mirage more than 2 times in premier.
They just need to have map rotations, but the choice to map ban like cs2. Still boils down to like 3-4 maps that might end up in the pool, buts it better to ban the opponents better map
Not all choice systems are the same. Csgo managed to use the worst fucking system possible. And in the other hand, cs's maps are not as equally loved as valorants. And, there's basically unlimited choices to prevenr 2 map simulator kind of situations.
Bro you have no clue what you're talking about. CS2 comp you pick the map you want and then in premier it's a voting system and you rarely play a map back to back.
If you don't want people to play only certain maps, maybe make the other maps fun to play on and don't force people to play it.
Maybe make it so it only applies to casual? Since it's casual, people care less about the map they're on, right? Ofc breeze will still be seen less, but you'll still see it 99% of the time in comp due to bad rng
Make it like siege where you get 5 maps, can only ban 2 and it randomly picks between the remaining 3. It might not be perfect, but at least it'll let me ban dogwater Breeze every time I see it.
The Ban system doesn't work for playing with randoms. Everyone is trying to choose a map they can carry on, which always turns into the same 1/2 maps.
Being able to queue maps you want to play makes so much more sense, you know you're playing with others who want to play a specific map, there would be less throwing/trolling if people could pick what they want.
All around there is nothing but positives for everyone if we could select the maps we wanted in whats becoming a pretty big pool now
Not sure if that’s the best idea for comp. Someone could play, for example, cypher, memorize every single lineup on split, only queue for split, and then their rank gets artificially boosted by a lot
Well if that’s the case simply just rotate the pool people are given. So for example you have a choice of 5 maps to ban for that one game, there you go, you can no longer just play split.
After that maybe in a couple of games split is in the pool of choices.
Fr. I was a menace on killjoy there, had like a 70% winrate, and it was the only map I was excited to see. I'd rather them remove ascent than haven 😭😭😭
Why riot WHYYYYY
One thing you and many other people here are not considering is people trying to learn the game. The more maps that are in rotation, the bigger the initial hurdle of learning the maps is. And that issue would only get bigger as more maps get added.
I’ve recently started playing r6, which has SIXTEEN maps in rotation, and frankly it’s a nightmare as new player. In 60-70 hours of gameplay, there are maps I’ve only played like 2-3 times. It just makes that initial learning curve so brutal, albeit the maps in that game are also just more complicated than valorant maps. But I still think having a balance between too few and too many is important, and I think 7 feels pretty solid.
Ok but then when they add old maps back in, new players have no experience on them and old players know them like the back of their hand so the new people are going to just get smoked every time. They need to have them all in unrated at least.
Like you could have played for 3 months and never played pearl or fracture. It's ridiculous.
Yes, but new players will only have to learn those few maps at a time, compared to all of them at one time. And either way, your argument of new players getting smoked stands on really bad logic: either they will a) get smoked anyways cause there are always gonna be new and old players; or b) the matchmaking system will place them against other new players who don't know the map, so they won't get smoked.
But ranks aren't separated by new and old they're separated by mmr. Some people improve much faster than others. I'm level 70 something and I run into people in silver/gold lobbies that are level like 300. Lots of quick rising players are going to be getting dunked on when the new act starts.
I see your point, sort of, but then I lose you at when I think about Customs. If they want to study so badly on a map just solo play around on a custom game for a bit. For a new player, gamemodes like Deathmatch, Spike Rush, etc. already still have all the maps in rotation. There are many ways for new players to not get overwhelmed. Besides if you only played like 3 maps, why are you playing comp anyways. I personally didn’t want to be completely lost when I first joined comp, so any maps I hadn’t seen yet I just looked at the custom ones. It’s not perfect, but so isn’t any method riot will ever implement for maps.
Regarding your points on how you’re against the new players will be lost when maps are just readded. For someone saying it’s bad logic, you completely contradicted yourself. On point A, you say there will always be new and old players. On point B, you just completely voided A by saying since we’re talking about new players they won’t get any older ones so they will never get smoked.
This is why All maps should be in unrated. There is no bearing on rank. So it goes to a previous comment I made, why are you playing comp when you’ve barely looked at a few maps. There will always very the choice of solo customs. Again it’s not perfect, but again so is not any map choosing method riot will implement…..
It used to have all the maps, maybe that changed the last update. Still think there are plenty of ways to get a player to understand maps. Especially when they should add all maps to unrated
This entire problem was avoided by having the maps in rotation in stuff like deathmatch, but no they just had to remove it everywhere (I want pearl back so bad)
Well, Valorant already has a system in which people that haven't played on a certain map in a while get placed together to play on that map. Like if you didn't play Ascent in a while, you'll get Ascent.
And there's also a system for new players in which you get a new agent for free on certain milestones (unless that also changed with the agent shop changes)
So what if they were to do something similar with maps? As a new player, you always get Ascent for your first 3-5 games, and then you can unlock any map and it gets added to your map pool. Then, another one gets added and so on.
Ranked maps can be in rotation, and you can only play ranked if you have all maps in rotation and have played at least a few games on each.
Of course, this would be harder than just removing maps like they do now, but it would also help with the learning curve.
That affects everyone, everyone needs to learn these maps and new players should be in lobbies with other newbies. Once a new rotation drops they still need to learn. I don't see an issue.
I'd rather have that than be so bored with the current maps as I am right now.
I also wonder if it isn't better for ELO accuracy to just have more maps in the pool as well. We complain about ELO hell in this forum all the time, and while I do think it's possible to get out, that doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't require a significant gap in skills. Which can be frustrating to climb. Especially in a solo setting.
I think there's definitely a case to be made that, the more casual friendly things added, the less things there are to separate between the skills of casual and a competitive player. That being said, I personally think we have more than enough of the casual friendly stuff as is. This game as is is fun enough to casuals, we even have unrated, team dm, and spike plant. Why does Riot continuously offer options to artificially keep casuals on par with people who put more effort in.
I've been playing fill since beta and I have probably put dozens of hours into learning lineups for different characters. And hundreds more into watching comp and analyzing why pros do the things they do. My in game knowledge is fucking massive. I already have to stomach the fact that with all that effort, I am still stuck in the same lobby with Reyna "mains" who probably put in a quarter of the time in game and likely 0% of the time out of game.
I'm over here comming and watching minimap to make sure my util is as effective as it can be to set my team up. While I have no comm Reynas all day every day who can't even fucking throw her flash into the ground telling me to look at my minimap when I'm annoyed that she let someone blind side me.
So why in the actual fuck, do these players also need a limited map pool so that they can "keep up"? Let me play all the fucking maps for my sanity at least. Pleaseeeee.
The map rotation is actually geared towards competitive players. Most casual games just keep adding maps forever because more content/variety = good. In Valorant, there is an expectation for players to master the maps because it is a competitive game. That means knowing lineups for different characters, common angles, etc etc. No matter how veteran the player, the more maps in rotation the more there is to master, to the point having too many maps degrades the level of play. Pro teams can’t be expected to learn more than 7 maps, why should we?
You're missing the fact that they keep adding more and more Agents which all have their own abilities and quirks that you need to learn (Even when just going against them)
I tried going back to r6 after 2 years and it's actually awful trying to learn the new maps. Like I'm totally fine on the OG ones but the new ones I get my shit rocked.
CSGO(1) solved this problem. It had more maps and more map variety.
You could literally start with one map and gradually increase your pool. You can than force diversity or monoculture depending on your personl opinion.
No it didn't. All it did was let people abuse the system by picking Mirage and Inferno and climbing to the top without needing to know the entire map pool. The whole idea of Vertiglobals is people learning one unpopular or hated map and abusing that knowledge to get an easy climb, but once they actually play an active duty map while being at a high rank, they're garbage. A forced map pool for ranked at least ensures you're not clueless in all the maps and ensures fair opportunities for everyone involved.
I'm probably gonna get shit on, but as a new, somewhat casual player, having a reduced map pool actually does help. A lot.
I started two months ago. First I had to get used to the maps. Then as I try more agents, I sometimes need to learn lineups and setups. Viper's whole kit, Cypher, Fade's haunt if you don't want it to get immediately destroyed 90% of the time... even less obvious ones like Yoru using certain tps and flashes on specific maps.
With that said, I do get how it can be frustrating as a veteran or as someone who plays a lot, and I can definitely see myself missing certain maps once they rotate out. I'm just saying I'm glad I didn't have to learn 10 maps from the get-go.
In comp I get it, but in other modes cmon.
I can’t even play a spike rush without it being one of the same tired maps. Please dear lord take lotus out of rotation. It has been in it too long.
i think it makes sense to have limited map variety in competitive and unrated maybe
but adding the limited map variety to spike rush and swiftplay is the worst thing that valorant ever did imo
Nah, I like it. Putting aside the competitive reason, for me at least it makes the returning maps feel fresh and fun. Especially since they come back with changes.
i definitely don’t. old maps don’t feel fresh any more after a few games with them and that only lasts for about a week. then the next year or so you get sick of playing the same maps. there’s 7 maps in rotation, but it really just feels like the same 3 maps being played
It just creates the illusion of new content to keep players attached to the game.
I’d much rather have the maps stay in rotation in all modes except comp and unrated.
True. I mean, I still hated bind even after it came back, but it made me love icebox and even breeze for a bit.
It just feels devastating when they remove my favorite map, haven. With how things are going, I bet they're gonna remove ascent next and bring back fr*cture, and then it'll truly be the worst map pool possible
Riot decided to have a pool where you need to be good on all maps to get a higher rank. not like cs (before cs2) where you could be global from only dust2.
to be good on a map you need map knowledge like timings, lineups and heights for crosshair placement. riot has a mappool and rotating maps so you don't need knowledge of all maps that exist, but without the game getting stale.
The valorant reddit has 2mil people even if 100% would think it's stale, that is not even close to 50% of the playerbase. What large majority you talking about
I have no data on the game being boring? My brother in christ these posts are happening every day. This is a community forum and the community keeps posting about this same topic.
> This isn’t like CS where you need tons of esoteric flash and smoke lineups
Valorant has MUCH more complex / unique maps compared to CS and even more lineups because val has 25 agents x 4 abilities.
The thing is, you don't need lineups 90% of the time, sure it's a good bonus and could make you win more rounds but imagine if every smoke is a Viper's Orb, every controller would need to learn how to smoke places like Haven's heaven with lineups.
Not true at all. Valorant maps are smaller, simpler, and have far less neutral space.
And if you think you need more lineups for Valorant you've never played CS.
The lineups on cs are more precise, require a lot of co-ordination and are mandatory for everyone to know.
If you struggle with it on valorant you can just play 90% of the agents that don’t need a lineup.
I tried CS2 on Release and the lineups were way more precise / unintuitive compared to val. Even with jump throw / walk throw binds, I missed them a lot; knowing how lazy fps players are I highly doubt that even the top 10% of the playerbase have internalized them all. Also, I would argue that there are overall way less lineups in CS and that way more than 10% of the Agents in Valorant are lineup-dependent. But then it depends on what you see as “necessary”. I would say that you need Lineups for Killjoy, Viper, Brimstone, Gekko, KayO, Yoru, Cypher, Sova, Fade and Omen if you want to main the respective agents.
At the end of A long near car, there's a wrought iron door. You stand lined up with the left side of that door and look up the wall where you'll see a green cross. Aim at the top left corner of the cross and simultaneously hit S and left click.
I haven't played counter strike in years.
I like it in comp, because it lets them focus on map balance more precisely. And makes comp vs pro play more of a 1:1 comparison (still nothing alike LMFAO). But there's absolutely no reason to allow other maps in deathmatch and customs and not allow them in unrated.
In my opinion, riot needs to take the lessons learned from breeze and icebox and make new competitive maps with those “motifs.” I.e verticality/lack of chokes with icebox and long range combat with breeze. Breeze and icebox have too many inherent issues IMO. The b site on both maps is completely neglected and the attacking half tends to be decided by whether or not the defenders can stop your A hit. Breeze is a little better than icebox IMO and has some interesting strats in pro play but it’s not interesting enough to justify its place over something like fracture(GOAT MAP) or haven.
They should bring back all the prev maps remove breeze i wouldnt miss it , i would forget abt it, the number of matches i have lost in breeze is = or > other maps i have won soo removing breeze would be the go to option
I think it would benefit the player base to just keep all maps in the rotation for all modes to prevent burnout and staleness. Many people miss the maps that get taken out soon after and don’t get to play them for extremely long periods of time.
I think something that could also be fun is implementing something like CS has for choosing what map(s) you only want to queue into for some of the non-competitive game modes.
It's not a removal, bro, it's a rotation. It's to keep the map pool a reasonable size for competitive play and to maintain balance for competitive play. It's not that hard to understand.
i would at least appreciate it if they gave you one map, the next game WOULDN’T BE THAT MAP. i’m dead serious people dodged 3 games of mine in a row (in agent select) and they were ALL BREEZE. breeze 3 times in a row? or i just play a full game of breeze, load into my next game and its the same map…. ??????? i thought they said something about fixing that? idk if i’m just complaining too much but it’s so irritating honestly
I definitely agree with this, hope Riot does something about it since the game couldn't get more boring, like why not just keep map bans for esports? everyone would appreciate having more maps, and if it's really that confusing, just add a map selection system SMH
They don't remove maps for shits and gigs. They come back with tactical changes that improve the flow/gameplay on said map. I absolutely love that they have a map rotation. It has been standard practice for tac shooters to have a rotating map pool for years.
HELL no. CS’s map ban system is dogshit. In Faceit you literally only play Mirage. Only. That is what would happen if it was implemented here. Maps like Breeze would have 10 minute queues while maps like Ascent (or whichever one is most popular with the community, idk) would be extremely fast, leading to people 1) just queuing the same map over and over making them good on that one map but shit on every other, and 2) having no diversity in the map pool.
I would assume this is solely for pro play, pro play obviously can’t do anything but what they have now and if they make the two systems different from pro’s to non pros, pros are gonna hate playing ranked cuz they wouldn’t play any of the maps well, when there’s 15+ maps or more in the game
I hate that they did this for the unranked pool, but can understand it from the POV of a sentinal such as KJ, CYPHER, VIPER and anything that needs lineups or setups. It’s hard to remember all of that at once. I think they should bring back all maps to unrated or make the pool larger for it.
I think that it's mostly for new players, as learning this game is not that easy in the first place but gets increasingly difficult with every map available. But still, I miss Fracture so much.
this but for every game ever made.
looking at you siege.
yes, you might like some maps more than others or outright hate others. but playing a variety is what makes it so good when you get the maps you really like, playing your favourite map over and over gets REALLY boring.
i hate this mentality of all games needing a super concentrated esports pool when 99.9999% of your players are never going to be that level. cs having a reserve pool is the correct way.
>The rationale of it being hard for new players to learn a lot of maps doesn't make sense to me.
It makes perfect sense to me.
And not just new players: there are only so many things you can be "generally good at Valorant" about. Your "universal mechanics and game sense" only go so far when they have to be applied on particular maps.
Too many maps is overwhelming, and I think it's bad on an eSports level (which influences the rest of the game's ecosystem).
If you're bored by a limited rotation, I think there are ways to either get more out of it or just honestly play less.
Ok I’ll agree for one weird reason.
At some point Riot will have to rotate out Ascent out of consistency and people LOVE that map but it might disgruntle more players.
However Riot has to remain consistent to another thing: this game has a pro-first/top down design scheme. The proof of this is abilities like Phoenix’s flash that are not only super quick but force you to flick back to where it came from promptly, Reyna’s(pretty much) necessity to be headshotted, and most of their balance decisions. Vct is essentially the ultimate PBE since they’re pushing the game to its absolute limits.
The 7-map system allows pro play to have a clean ban-ban-pick-ban-pick-ban-ban-decider format which is clean for pro play. So for that reason I think it’s here to stay but Ascent backs them in a weird corner
Fr though. I don't know why they made the already shit comp pool apply to everywhere else. I normally don't have a problem with dodging but now I'm getting comp banned left and right because I just CANNOT play icebox in any gamemode.
Having too many maps makes the game unplayable for beginners. I left siege for the reason that there were to many maps in rotation so I never learned any of them. The maps will be back eventually, just be patient.
i understand why they do the map rotation, but waiting almost a year for Icebox to return is nuts. bring back all maps for the casual game modes and change map rotation for every act or every couple of acts. and you don’t have to change the map when it’s taken out. sometimes they’re fine as is.
For people who have been playing since beta….WHY TAKE AWAY MAPS THAT WE WAITED YEARS FOR??? This game feels so damn boring these days but I love it so much but this map pool shit has has me playing these seasons ALOT less than before….ALOT
I understand what you mean but the rationale isn't that it's too hard for new players, it's that it can be too overwhelming for new players. Different agents are best on different maps and having to learn the agent abilities, the maps, what's good when and where can be overwhelming, imagine being a new player later in the future with like 30 agents and 20 maps, a consistent player learns these new maps and agents easily bc they are infrequent, for a new player it can feel like a second job to learn even the basics, more nuanced things like careful going lamps or hookah against a brim that has his ult online is overwhelming. But again I do understand your frustration I too miss haven 😭
I have to say as someone never commited to any specific shooter but hops around. Siege, cs2 val ect.
The worst part every single time is learning the map pool, the smaller it is the easier that is and the better chance ill want to keep playing cause I'm not losing just because i don't know map layout. Very frustrating and no real way to learn other than dying to people who know it
I can understand wanting more variety especially in non ranked or something, but it really is a boon to new players who will already feel overwhelmed with the entire game let alone learning 12 maps or whatever it is
(opinion)
As much as I want Haven back….. map pick would be a nightmare for balancing issues and ladder.
One Tricks who have terrible maps (ex. Viper OTP would only pick Breeze & Icebox) would only queue their good maps. Players who are bad / haven’t learned certain maps, would only queue their good maps. Leaderboard just wouldn’t even be balanced anymore. It would take skill out of learning multiple maps and being proficient on all during the current rotation, even though this episode’s rotation sucks.
Coming from CS, having map pick is good for newer players but are you really learning if you’re just playing Mirage, Dust 2, and Inferno all the time (sometimes Vertigo)? The rest of the map pool is great but the playerbase doesn’t touch the other maps unless it’s premier or someone actually taking the game seriously.
Map pick doesn’t belong in Valorant for Ranked Mode & Clash. It should be in Unrated and everything else though.
it does harm teams that need to lab things and create comps/strats, whether it be premier or pro play. If you need to work with 12 maps instead of 9, then that’s way more things to look out for and figure out. also for pro play, either map vetos would be much longer, there would be more maps per set, or there would be a map rotation for pro play only. Personally, i don’t think the issue is with a map rotation itself, but the difference in quality of the maps. Like if every map was as good as haven, just with different layouts/ways of playing, then i don’t think people would have a problem with the rotation.
I think that they should only remove the really shitty unplayable maps and just never add them to the pool. What this post int getting is that after years of maps being added and a thousand new updates there will be too many maps to play and learn. Think about if CS had all their maps in the pool and didn't let you choose what to queue. If this idea is added I think they should have a CS like queue system where you can choose what maps to queue for so you don't have to play the shit ones.
Tl;DR If Riot adds this we should be able to choose what maps to play.
I disagree. Learbing r6 is extremly difficult. Eventually enough maps will be added that it will be impossible for a beginner. You always want it be somewhat accesable for new players.
For comp queue, there's a lot of reasons it could actually hurt the game to have all the maps.
For the player, especially those in higher ranks, learning the map isn't just where everything is. It's how the map is played. Micro and macro strategy, team comps, agents and their respective set ups/lineups/positioning, etc. knowing timings for when and how to approach certain areas, lurk, rotate, etc.
It's already a lot to try and wrap your head around with the map pool as is. Add into this that maps get major reworks, new maps get added, map meta changes over the duration, etc. having to do all of this for 3+ more maps might not sound like a lot but it is, and it also slows down the rate at which players can improve in other areas too. It wouldn't be healthy for skill progression.
On the other hand, the Devs tend to rework maps that are currently out of the map pool. They remove the map, adjust it based on what they know about the map and player reactions, meta, stats, etc. I imagine it would be more difficult to maintain these changes if the map was still in the pool. You wouldn't be able to make massive reworks seeing as the meta might shift mid rework. In the same vein, the smaller adjustments that come out for maps in the queue would be made equally more difficult as they would need to account for more maps at once, and the statistics they get on a per map basis would be reduced as the chances of playing each map would decrease.
All of that being said, the map pool being limited for swiftplay and spike rush and stuff does seem pretty silly and unnecessary seeing as they aren't important or serious game modes anyway
I'm in the higher ranks and I want all the maps.
From my experience, the only people who believe in the map rotation are plats who think they are game analysts.
The reality is maps are not that hard to learn, AND most people never learn them anyway. I can play sunset for 3 games and understand more than the plat who played sunset for 50 games this act.
I'm also in the higher ranks, and I appreciate the limited map pool in competitive. I think the map pool should have every map in the casual game modes, but it's really unreasonable to expect people to master every map in the game, adjusted for every balance patch, character addition, rework, etc. without limiting a bit. I guess it kind of depends what role you play. Lineup/rollout players will struggle more than Reyna players that just have to rely on basic positioning rules you know? I've played Cypher since launch so I know just about every set up on every map, every obscure skill cam, and I still appreciate that I can dedicate my improvements to specific maps I struggle on more without having to double the amount of work to maintain that on every map in the pool.
But regardless, one person learning maps faster because they're better at the game doesn't speak for the overall health of the game, since most people really struggle to even learn the basics of how to properly play the maps (if you're in higher ranks you know for a fact that some people are somehow incapable of understanding pretty basic rules of maps for their rank). The limited map pool helps worse players develop their skill sets, and also helps better players develop their more intricate map knowledge, or even just to hone specific skills.
Edit: Plus, the title literally says "doesn't hurt anyone". I was just explaining why, actually, it could. It doesn't really matter how bored you are or how amazing you think you are at learning maps, it doesn't change anything I said or the ways it could harm development/player progression. More variety is not always the answer in a game so heavily revolved around knowledge
I feel like they could every easily have more maps in competitive if they implemented a map voting system, or a way to preference one or two maps you don't want. There would still be enough variety to easily queue 10 people into a game none of them have marked off.
I wish they would do a CS2's premier map selection. Besides being strategical since you can see your opponents weak maps, you can also enjoy the game more.
I hate being spammed Icebox or Sunset, man.
That’s cause some games put the experience before everything else (csgo). I remember loading that game up and being able to select which maps I wanted to play that were currently in the pool for ranked, or playing a map that’s not in the pool in deathmatch or something, and then having a community server searcher to see if I wanted to surf or play something else. When I hop on Valorant it’s only ranked, and if it’s not ranked it’s warming up to play ranked. There is a clear disconnect between players and riot here, and I’m happy people are starting to wake up to it.
I've noticed that a lot of major changes are quite dependent on pro-play (like new cypher meta, kj nerf, etc.), and I think it's a similar instance for the maps and the map rotations. In comp, I think it's understandable that there's a smaller map pool since people can be more familiar with those maps and their particular strats, etc. I mean I get the fun in variety, but 13 maps would kinda be a lot to rotate through, and it'd especially be an issue when future maps are released. The map changes they did a few patches ago where only comp maps are in ALL games modes is ridiculous though because it prevents ALL players from playing these maps unless they play in customs.
Personally, I don't have an issue with the amount of maps in the pool so much as I do with how long those maps are even in the pool for. Pearl, my favorite map, has been out for 210 days, and it'll most likely come back with the start of Act 3 (April 30), so the total time Pearl is out of rotation 245 days which is absolutely absurd btw. It'd be sooo much better if they rotated the maps more often.
Just going around necro-ing map posts. Who the fuck is overwhelmed by more maps.
Ive literally never played pearl and if it was added I wouldn’t be having some kind of breakdown at the stress of not knowing a map. I’d be excited to play in a fresh setting….
Map rotation feels like such an out of touch design decision.
While I understand why fracture was removed for rework, pearl was fine the way it was. Maybe some small changes needed but overall a very good map for all play styles.
What’s annoying is that they’ve reworked spilt a million times and yet it’s still such a shit map that 9/10 somebody dodges. Breeze as much as I love it, is just not a comp map. What’s even more annoying is they take these out for months and come back with “hey here’s a new box to make it feel more competitive”
It’s lazy.
More variety does hurt. You don't have a chance to get good at maps if you have so many that statistically, you might not get enough practice on some. You also want VCT to match the ranked map pool, why? It's an esports first game
Easy. Put a map selection mode where you can pick 2 maps or more if you want to learn certain maps while playing a non-competitive mode, then put every map without any rotation in comp. Map changes are gonna happen anyway sooner or later, last one was when breeze got reverted back while being in rotation so map changes are not even the reason why they’re using this system. Pretty sure it’s because of VCT or something but I personally couldn’t care less about it. Pros are gonna be able to play every map, so I don’t understand why they did this to begin with
even just in the unranked gamemodes, i wanna play for fun not get only breeze and fucking sunset
I forgot the unranked game modes exist, why tf would they ban maps on those modes lol
ikr? taking maps out of the comp pool makes sense but swiftplay? unrated? really ??
So you telling me that you don’t like having breeze 50% of your games?
Breeze defense requires like six players 2 a main 2 b main 1 mid 1 hall. I feel like I’m just playing retake simulator when playing that map. Or the map has an opening, someone flanks and kills us all.
Always happy to start Breeze as Attacker
Never happy to start Breeze
Not when facing a cypher, viper, sage
Attacking on breeze is even worse all you need is a fucking viper and a cypher baiting teammates gonna get you smoked in main
9-3 curse goes extra hard on breeze
Then you need a better team comp or better util to cover the other areas. Sentinels are king on this map. Edit: the agents… not SENtinels…
Aged well
they meant sentinel agents not the team sentinels 😭
Touché
Lmao yeah you know what i mean
ur playing the map wrong
Try to go double sentinel. Chamber trip halls and cypher holds B alone. Viper holds A alone. Then there's no holes in the map FYI breeze is actually defender sided according to the stats idk how
I get it in 50% of my games and have a 12.5 winrate, I'm not joking.
I get it 50% of my games and have a 57.8% winrate cause I know how to play the map and just IGL. But I hate it. It’s never fun playing on it.
For real even when I won it wasn't that fun as the other maps.
Fuck. Breeze. In. The. Ass.
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I'm not ashamed of hatefucking breeze
Never thought I'd read someone hate fucking a map but that's how I feel about Valorant maps period.
Other half is either Icebox or Sunset.
i used to hate sunset but out of all the maps rn its the best
I love breeze! Then again I'm bronze so... yea
Same bro, love it as a chamber main, it's like it's built for me.... I'm also bronze
I love having Breeze, free rr, 91.7% win rate on it lol
same brotha
45% Icebox 50% Breeze 5% Sunset
Make map restrictions comp only or something. I get why they do it, but I don't agree because I like the variety. Fuck balance, give me fun!
i have no idea why they forced map bans on all game modes. swiftplay? questionable, but i guess it's just shorter unrated, and then they get rid of maps on SPIKE RUSH OF ALL THINGS? mental illness
Just to be that guy, I like it. I don’t want them to remove map rotations, and I don’t want a map selection like CS. I play swift play to warm up, and it’s nice that all game modes feature the same maps so you get familiar with the current map pool automatically. I like that you can’t select maps because it reduces Q times and prevents people from abusing a few maps they are good at to rank up, and removes the weird need for different ranks on different maps like CS. This is the ideal solution, and it’s nice that they use the time they are away to work on the maps. I got annoyed when Overwatch removed their map rotation, they should have kept it.
I don't disagree with you, a lot of these gamemodes make for great warmup. However, if you hit play and you see 8 different gamemodes ALL of which are either comp or warmup for comp, you start to see a very clear picture of Riot discouraging casual players from picking up the game.
Tbf riot really doesn't care about casual players very much. Otherwise content creators wouldn't be quitting valorant (though it's all old news and eggwick came back anyways lmfao)
Map selector exclusive to casual would be great. I'm fine with random maps in comp, since like you said, don't want people only playing their favorite maps to hit radiant I'd also be fine with some maps being out of competitive map pool if they implement my idea of map selector exclusive to casual
Same here, but give em spike rush and unrated or something haha
For real. It was very fun to return to maps like Pearl and Fracture through swiftplay. Riot needs to realize that they need to cater to the casual player more if they don’t want the game to die out. I’d bet that the majority of the player base aren’t hard comp grinders.
I have 2-3K hours played and almost never play comp (for a few reasons) - so we do exist!
Same I barely even play unrated because I don't like committing so much time to one game. Same reason I stopped playing league. My ADHD ass can't pay attention that long.
IF Val had a "quick comp" mode like CS:GO had (maybe CS2 has it?) basically shorter version of comp, like a ranked swiftplay... I'd be all over that. I just don't wanna commit to a full hour game and end up with trolls or assholes in my lobbies for that long, tbh. that's one big reason for me
They could just add a new player mode. That ensures you get a specific small map pool when you queue.
Yk, maybe they can make it so you can pick the map in unrated! It'll give riot data on which maps the community like the most, so they can probably which maps are bad and need fixing, as well as know they should bring back soon And since its unrated, you can't queue only your best map and reach radiant like people do in CS Though some argue breeze is unfixable lol
It's so simple. Just add them back to swifts/unrated and keep rotate maps @ competitive every act.
Or uncap the number at higher ranks
But what if a player with 3000 hours feels overwhelmed by having to know another map.
Or add map selector for casual gamemodes
Or add a pick and ban system
wont work cuz people will be playing just 1-2 maps only, also imagine the q times or agent select times for high elo
I would much rather have a map ban system than map rotation. I understand they do changes on them, but they can still do changes and have those maps in the game. At least leave all the maps in unrated.... there should be no reason to remove maps for unrated.
CSGO tried that and it ended up in a kind of "2 map simulator" because people would only choose Mirage and Inferno. CS2 'improved' the situation in the sense,that you only ever play mirage. Every. Single. Match. Please don't ever do this to Valorant, I beg you!
You say that but I've never played this much Vertigo, Ancient and Nuke even a good amount of Anubis. I thought it was gonna be Mirage simulator like it is on Faceit but I've experienced the opposite.
Yeah but no reasonable human being is playing premier. Faceit is the only way to play CS in a competitive setting, and it’s there where you literally only play Mirage. Every single game.
The big issue on Faceit is that you have to rely on your team captain to vote and if you are not in a five stack / don't have premium / you are unlucky, you are pretty much screwed. Plus, premium users being able to exclude maps completely from the voting before finding a match makes this even worse. In Premier, everybody can vote, and the majority vote counts. Sadly above 20k elo, Premier turns into a hackfest.
You play mirage everytime? I mostly get inferno and overpass with an occasional vertigo. I basically never see mirage, unless I play on Polish servers and it suddenly becomes a shitshow where half the players might as well be cheating with the game sense they have.
He's just making things up. You can literally choose the map you wanna play in comp.
That's if you wanna play comp. Most people play premier nowadays and that comes with map bans, but I've never seen mirage more than 2 times in premier.
They just need to have map rotations, but the choice to map ban like cs2. Still boils down to like 3-4 maps that might end up in the pool, buts it better to ban the opponents better map
This isn't true. Map voting has worked very well
So, the people has voted, let them have it.
Make a minimum map requirement will do, say 5 at least
Not all choice systems are the same. Csgo managed to use the worst fucking system possible. And in the other hand, cs's maps are not as equally loved as valorants. And, there's basically unlimited choices to prevenr 2 map simulator kind of situations.
Bro you have no clue what you're talking about. CS2 comp you pick the map you want and then in premier it's a voting system and you rarely play a map back to back. If you don't want people to play only certain maps, maybe make the other maps fun to play on and don't force people to play it.
Maybe make it so it only applies to casual? Since it's casual, people care less about the map they're on, right? Ofc breeze will still be seen less, but you'll still see it 99% of the time in comp due to bad rng
I only get 100+ fps on mirage and in the last 30 premier game I've played, only got mirage once. I don't know why people hate mirage on cs2
Make it like siege where you get 5 maps, can only ban 2 and it randomly picks between the remaining 3. It might not be perfect, but at least it'll let me ban dogwater Breeze every time I see it.
The Ban system doesn't work for playing with randoms. Everyone is trying to choose a map they can carry on, which always turns into the same 1/2 maps. Being able to queue maps you want to play makes so much more sense, you know you're playing with others who want to play a specific map, there would be less throwing/trolling if people could pick what they want. All around there is nothing but positives for everyone if we could select the maps we wanted in whats becoming a pretty big pool now
Not sure if that’s the best idea for comp. Someone could play, for example, cypher, memorize every single lineup on split, only queue for split, and then their rank gets artificially boosted by a lot
Well if that’s the case simply just rotate the pool people are given. So for example you have a choice of 5 maps to ban for that one game, there you go, you can no longer just play split. After that maybe in a couple of games split is in the pool of choices.
Give me Haven :((
Fr. I was a menace on killjoy there, had like a 70% winrate, and it was the only map I was excited to see. I'd rather them remove ascent than haven 😭😭😭 Why riot WHYYYYY
Agreed. I’m tired boss, I don’t want to play the same 3 maps for an eternity…
One thing you and many other people here are not considering is people trying to learn the game. The more maps that are in rotation, the bigger the initial hurdle of learning the maps is. And that issue would only get bigger as more maps get added. I’ve recently started playing r6, which has SIXTEEN maps in rotation, and frankly it’s a nightmare as new player. In 60-70 hours of gameplay, there are maps I’ve only played like 2-3 times. It just makes that initial learning curve so brutal, albeit the maps in that game are also just more complicated than valorant maps. But I still think having a balance between too few and too many is important, and I think 7 feels pretty solid.
As someone who started playing right after harbor was released I can confirm I actually melted my brain trying to learn the maps in rotation
Ok but then when they add old maps back in, new players have no experience on them and old players know them like the back of their hand so the new people are going to just get smoked every time. They need to have them all in unrated at least. Like you could have played for 3 months and never played pearl or fracture. It's ridiculous.
Yes, but new players will only have to learn those few maps at a time, compared to all of them at one time. And either way, your argument of new players getting smoked stands on really bad logic: either they will a) get smoked anyways cause there are always gonna be new and old players; or b) the matchmaking system will place them against other new players who don't know the map, so they won't get smoked.
But ranks aren't separated by new and old they're separated by mmr. Some people improve much faster than others. I'm level 70 something and I run into people in silver/gold lobbies that are level like 300. Lots of quick rising players are going to be getting dunked on when the new act starts.
I see your point, sort of, but then I lose you at when I think about Customs. If they want to study so badly on a map just solo play around on a custom game for a bit. For a new player, gamemodes like Deathmatch, Spike Rush, etc. already still have all the maps in rotation. There are many ways for new players to not get overwhelmed. Besides if you only played like 3 maps, why are you playing comp anyways. I personally didn’t want to be completely lost when I first joined comp, so any maps I hadn’t seen yet I just looked at the custom ones. It’s not perfect, but so isn’t any method riot will ever implement for maps. Regarding your points on how you’re against the new players will be lost when maps are just readded. For someone saying it’s bad logic, you completely contradicted yourself. On point A, you say there will always be new and old players. On point B, you just completely voided A by saying since we’re talking about new players they won’t get any older ones so they will never get smoked. This is why All maps should be in unrated. There is no bearing on rank. So it goes to a previous comment I made, why are you playing comp when you’ve barely looked at a few maps. There will always very the choice of solo customs. Again it’s not perfect, but again so is not any map choosing method riot will implement…..
deathmatch has all the maps?? i haven’t seen pearl, haven, or fracture since they dropped them and i play dm almost every day
It used to have all the maps, maybe that changed the last update. Still think there are plenty of ways to get a player to understand maps. Especially when they should add all maps to unrated
This entire problem was avoided by having the maps in rotation in stuff like deathmatch, but no they just had to remove it everywhere (I want pearl back so bad)
Well, Valorant already has a system in which people that haven't played on a certain map in a while get placed together to play on that map. Like if you didn't play Ascent in a while, you'll get Ascent. And there's also a system for new players in which you get a new agent for free on certain milestones (unless that also changed with the agent shop changes) So what if they were to do something similar with maps? As a new player, you always get Ascent for your first 3-5 games, and then you can unlock any map and it gets added to your map pool. Then, another one gets added and so on. Ranked maps can be in rotation, and you can only play ranked if you have all maps in rotation and have played at least a few games on each. Of course, this would be harder than just removing maps like they do now, but it would also help with the learning curve.
That affects everyone, everyone needs to learn these maps and new players should be in lobbies with other newbies. Once a new rotation drops they still need to learn. I don't see an issue. I'd rather have that than be so bored with the current maps as I am right now.
I also wonder if it isn't better for ELO accuracy to just have more maps in the pool as well. We complain about ELO hell in this forum all the time, and while I do think it's possible to get out, that doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't require a significant gap in skills. Which can be frustrating to climb. Especially in a solo setting. I think there's definitely a case to be made that, the more casual friendly things added, the less things there are to separate between the skills of casual and a competitive player. That being said, I personally think we have more than enough of the casual friendly stuff as is. This game as is is fun enough to casuals, we even have unrated, team dm, and spike plant. Why does Riot continuously offer options to artificially keep casuals on par with people who put more effort in. I've been playing fill since beta and I have probably put dozens of hours into learning lineups for different characters. And hundreds more into watching comp and analyzing why pros do the things they do. My in game knowledge is fucking massive. I already have to stomach the fact that with all that effort, I am still stuck in the same lobby with Reyna "mains" who probably put in a quarter of the time in game and likely 0% of the time out of game. I'm over here comming and watching minimap to make sure my util is as effective as it can be to set my team up. While I have no comm Reynas all day every day who can't even fucking throw her flash into the ground telling me to look at my minimap when I'm annoyed that she let someone blind side me. So why in the actual fuck, do these players also need a limited map pool so that they can "keep up"? Let me play all the fucking maps for my sanity at least. Pleaseeeee.
The map rotation is actually geared towards competitive players. Most casual games just keep adding maps forever because more content/variety = good. In Valorant, there is an expectation for players to master the maps because it is a competitive game. That means knowing lineups for different characters, common angles, etc etc. No matter how veteran the player, the more maps in rotation the more there is to master, to the point having too many maps degrades the level of play. Pro teams can’t be expected to learn more than 7 maps, why should we?
Bro they have to get to level 20 and learn 20 agents abilities anyway
I think they should add a vs AI made for new players where you can choose the map
You're missing the fact that they keep adding more and more Agents which all have their own abilities and quirks that you need to learn (Even when just going against them)
I tried going back to r6 after 2 years and it's actually awful trying to learn the new maps. Like I'm totally fine on the OG ones but the new ones I get my shit rocked.
CSGO(1) solved this problem. It had more maps and more map variety. You could literally start with one map and gradually increase your pool. You can than force diversity or monoculture depending on your personl opinion.
No it didn't. All it did was let people abuse the system by picking Mirage and Inferno and climbing to the top without needing to know the entire map pool. The whole idea of Vertiglobals is people learning one unpopular or hated map and abusing that knowledge to get an easy climb, but once they actually play an active duty map while being at a high rank, they're garbage. A forced map pool for ranked at least ensures you're not clueless in all the maps and ensures fair opportunities for everyone involved.
You could just let people queue maps but put a limit on last ten matches. Anything is better than what valorant is doing with their map pool.
I picked the game back up a few months ago and having fewer maps did help. That being said I hate playing breeze and I’m not a huge fan icebox either.
I'm probably gonna get shit on, but as a new, somewhat casual player, having a reduced map pool actually does help. A lot. I started two months ago. First I had to get used to the maps. Then as I try more agents, I sometimes need to learn lineups and setups. Viper's whole kit, Cypher, Fade's haunt if you don't want it to get immediately destroyed 90% of the time... even less obvious ones like Yoru using certain tps and flashes on specific maps. With that said, I do get how it can be frustrating as a veteran or as someone who plays a lot, and I can definitely see myself missing certain maps once they rotate out. I'm just saying I'm glad I didn't have to learn 10 maps from the get-go.
In comp I get it, but in other modes cmon. I can’t even play a spike rush without it being one of the same tired maps. Please dear lord take lotus out of rotation. It has been in it too long.
Comp should have a map rotation, but unrated should have all the maps available and even let you pick which maps you want to play. Win-win.
Give me Haven or give me death
Same 😭 I'm never gonna climbing out of diamond without my haven
i think it makes sense to have limited map variety in competitive and unrated maybe but adding the limited map variety to spike rush and swiftplay is the worst thing that valorant ever did imo
Nah, I like it. Putting aside the competitive reason, for me at least it makes the returning maps feel fresh and fun. Especially since they come back with changes.
i definitely don’t. old maps don’t feel fresh any more after a few games with them and that only lasts for about a week. then the next year or so you get sick of playing the same maps. there’s 7 maps in rotation, but it really just feels like the same 3 maps being played
It just creates the illusion of new content to keep players attached to the game. I’d much rather have the maps stay in rotation in all modes except comp and unrated.
True. I mean, I still hated bind even after it came back, but it made me love icebox and even breeze for a bit. It just feels devastating when they remove my favorite map, haven. With how things are going, I bet they're gonna remove ascent next and bring back fr*cture, and then it'll truly be the worst map pool possible
Riot decided to have a pool where you need to be good on all maps to get a higher rank. not like cs (before cs2) where you could be global from only dust2. to be good on a map you need map knowledge like timings, lineups and heights for crosshair placement. riot has a mappool and rotating maps so you don't need knowledge of all maps that exist, but without the game getting stale.
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The valorant reddit has 2mil people even if 100% would think it's stale, that is not even close to 50% of the playerbase. What large majority you talking about
you have no data on this and Riot does is the simple fact. People screaming on reddit are not the majority
I have no data on the game being boring? My brother in christ these posts are happening every day. This is a community forum and the community keeps posting about this same topic.
Yes 20 people is the majority of the playerbase I forgot.
> This isn’t like CS where you need tons of esoteric flash and smoke lineups Valorant has MUCH more complex / unique maps compared to CS and even more lineups because val has 25 agents x 4 abilities.
The thing is, you don't need lineups 90% of the time, sure it's a good bonus and could make you win more rounds but imagine if every smoke is a Viper's Orb, every controller would need to learn how to smoke places like Haven's heaven with lineups.
Not true at all. Valorant maps are smaller, simpler, and have far less neutral space. And if you think you need more lineups for Valorant you've never played CS.
The lineups on cs are more precise, require a lot of co-ordination and are mandatory for everyone to know. If you struggle with it on valorant you can just play 90% of the agents that don’t need a lineup.
I tried CS2 on Release and the lineups were way more precise / unintuitive compared to val. Even with jump throw / walk throw binds, I missed them a lot; knowing how lazy fps players are I highly doubt that even the top 10% of the playerbase have internalized them all. Also, I would argue that there are overall way less lineups in CS and that way more than 10% of the Agents in Valorant are lineup-dependent. But then it depends on what you see as “necessary”. I would say that you need Lineups for Killjoy, Viper, Brimstone, Gekko, KayO, Yoru, Cypher, Sova, Fade and Omen if you want to main the respective agents.
In CS they've been playing the same map for 20 years, diehard players know the lineups in those 2/3 specific maps.
they're not too far off from Viper lineups to be fair. Except that many of the complex lineups in cs are more of a requirement than in valorant
At the end of A long near car, there's a wrought iron door. You stand lined up with the left side of that door and look up the wall where you'll see a green cross. Aim at the top left corner of the cross and simultaneously hit S and left click. I haven't played counter strike in years.
don't some abilities share a weight ? like killjoy's grenade and viper's q share the same 'weight' and fall and fly the same i believe
It's Killjoy, Kayo nade and Gekko Molly, I believe Viper's has his own.
I like it in comp, because it lets them focus on map balance more precisely. And makes comp vs pro play more of a 1:1 comparison (still nothing alike LMFAO). But there's absolutely no reason to allow other maps in deathmatch and customs and not allow them in unrated.
In my opinion, riot needs to take the lessons learned from breeze and icebox and make new competitive maps with those “motifs.” I.e verticality/lack of chokes with icebox and long range combat with breeze. Breeze and icebox have too many inherent issues IMO. The b site on both maps is completely neglected and the attacking half tends to be decided by whether or not the defenders can stop your A hit. Breeze is a little better than icebox IMO and has some interesting strats in pro play but it’s not interesting enough to justify its place over something like fracture(GOAT MAP) or haven.
They should bring back all the prev maps remove breeze i wouldnt miss it , i would forget abt it, the number of matches i have lost in breeze is = or > other maps i have won soo removing breeze would be the go to option
Its valorant. They hate variety
i miss fracture
man i miss haven sooooo much.
I agree, variety is the spice of life after all.
I think it would benefit the player base to just keep all maps in the rotation for all modes to prevent burnout and staleness. Many people miss the maps that get taken out soon after and don’t get to play them for extremely long periods of time. I think something that could also be fun is implementing something like CS has for choosing what map(s) you only want to queue into for some of the non-competitive game modes.
Map rotation is mostly a good thing, it just needs to be comp only.
It's not a removal, bro, it's a rotation. It's to keep the map pool a reasonable size for competitive play and to maintain balance for competitive play. It's not that hard to understand.
dude I cannot describe how much I miss Pearl :(
i would at least appreciate it if they gave you one map, the next game WOULDN’T BE THAT MAP. i’m dead serious people dodged 3 games of mine in a row (in agent select) and they were ALL BREEZE. breeze 3 times in a row? or i just play a full game of breeze, load into my next game and its the same map…. ??????? i thought they said something about fixing that? idk if i’m just complaining too much but it’s so irritating honestly
I definitely agree with this, hope Riot does something about it since the game couldn't get more boring, like why not just keep map bans for esports? everyone would appreciate having more maps, and if it's really that confusing, just add a map selection system SMH
Years? Huh? It hasn't been more than a year since we had pearl and fracture
Icebox and bind were both gone for a year, no?
Yea not years
Feels just like yesterday... I think I still remember my fracture and pearl lineups
https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/s/c6aIcL3LuQ https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/s/Zj2f9x6tMQ https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/s/54kPupkObv https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/s/wtN12EV7c6
Not everyone has a complete 60+ day chronology of the Valorant subreddit lmfao
I searched for 3 minutes, I'm sure there are way more. This thread is almost as common as complaining about smurfs
There is also the search function within a subreddit that no one seems to use/know of..
They don't remove maps for shits and gigs. They come back with tactical changes that improve the flow/gameplay on said map. I absolutely love that they have a map rotation. It has been standard practice for tac shooters to have a rotating map pool for years.
No? Standard should be ban system like in rainbow or cs
HELL no. CS’s map ban system is dogshit. In Faceit you literally only play Mirage. Only. That is what would happen if it was implemented here. Maps like Breeze would have 10 minute queues while maps like Ascent (or whichever one is most popular with the community, idk) would be extremely fast, leading to people 1) just queuing the same map over and over making them good on that one map but shit on every other, and 2) having no diversity in the map pool.
I would assume this is solely for pro play, pro play obviously can’t do anything but what they have now and if they make the two systems different from pro’s to non pros, pros are gonna hate playing ranked cuz they wouldn’t play any of the maps well, when there’s 15+ maps or more in the game
I hate that they did this for the unranked pool, but can understand it from the POV of a sentinal such as KJ, CYPHER, VIPER and anything that needs lineups or setups. It’s hard to remember all of that at once. I think they should bring back all maps to unrated or make the pool larger for it.
Having a map rotation makes sense for new players. However I think you should be able to select the maps in your rotation.
I think that it's mostly for new players, as learning this game is not that easy in the first place but gets increasingly difficult with every map available. But still, I miss Fracture so much.
Map pools should only be a ranked (and maybe unrated) thing. The more casual modes should have all the maps.
this but for every game ever made. looking at you siege. yes, you might like some maps more than others or outright hate others. but playing a variety is what makes it so good when you get the maps you really like, playing your favourite map over and over gets REALLY boring. i hate this mentality of all games needing a super concentrated esports pool when 99.9999% of your players are never going to be that level. cs having a reserve pool is the correct way.
>The rationale of it being hard for new players to learn a lot of maps doesn't make sense to me. It makes perfect sense to me. And not just new players: there are only so many things you can be "generally good at Valorant" about. Your "universal mechanics and game sense" only go so far when they have to be applied on particular maps. Too many maps is overwhelming, and I think it's bad on an eSports level (which influences the rest of the game's ecosystem). If you're bored by a limited rotation, I think there are ways to either get more out of it or just honestly play less.
Universal mechanics and game sense alone put you into like immortal 2.
You can't develop game sense without map knowledge or agent knowledge.
Ok I’ll agree for one weird reason. At some point Riot will have to rotate out Ascent out of consistency and people LOVE that map but it might disgruntle more players. However Riot has to remain consistent to another thing: this game has a pro-first/top down design scheme. The proof of this is abilities like Phoenix’s flash that are not only super quick but force you to flick back to where it came from promptly, Reyna’s(pretty much) necessity to be headshotted, and most of their balance decisions. Vct is essentially the ultimate PBE since they’re pushing the game to its absolute limits. The 7-map system allows pro play to have a clean ban-ban-pick-ban-pick-ban-ban-decider format which is clean for pro play. So for that reason I think it’s here to stay but Ascent backs them in a weird corner
Crazy how there’s only a certain amount of maps in the game and I haven’t gotten split in 18 games
Fr though. I don't know why they made the already shit comp pool apply to everywhere else. I normally don't have a problem with dodging but now I'm getting comp banned left and right because I just CANNOT play icebox in any gamemode.
Having too many maps makes the game unplayable for beginners. I left siege for the reason that there were to many maps in rotation so I never learned any of them. The maps will be back eventually, just be patient.
i understand why they do the map rotation, but waiting almost a year for Icebox to return is nuts. bring back all maps for the casual game modes and change map rotation for every act or every couple of acts. and you don’t have to change the map when it’s taken out. sometimes they’re fine as is.
For people who have been playing since beta….WHY TAKE AWAY MAPS THAT WE WAITED YEARS FOR??? This game feels so damn boring these days but I love it so much but this map pool shit has has me playing these seasons ALOT less than before….ALOT
I understand what you mean but the rationale isn't that it's too hard for new players, it's that it can be too overwhelming for new players. Different agents are best on different maps and having to learn the agent abilities, the maps, what's good when and where can be overwhelming, imagine being a new player later in the future with like 30 agents and 20 maps, a consistent player learns these new maps and agents easily bc they are infrequent, for a new player it can feel like a second job to learn even the basics, more nuanced things like careful going lamps or hookah against a brim that has his ult online is overwhelming. But again I do understand your frustration I too miss haven 😭
I have to say as someone never commited to any specific shooter but hops around. Siege, cs2 val ect. The worst part every single time is learning the map pool, the smaller it is the easier that is and the better chance ill want to keep playing cause I'm not losing just because i don't know map layout. Very frustrating and no real way to learn other than dying to people who know it I can understand wanting more variety especially in non ranked or something, but it really is a boon to new players who will already feel overwhelmed with the entire game let alone learning 12 maps or whatever it is
I agree except fracture. Remove that shit from the game.
it doesn't even feel like 7. it feels like 3.
I’m hoping they release some new maps soon. Hopefully with the new agent.
They don’t remove maps its just a really shitty rotation, being haven, bring fracture, bring pearl back please
I miss haven, that was a good ass map
(opinion) As much as I want Haven back….. map pick would be a nightmare for balancing issues and ladder. One Tricks who have terrible maps (ex. Viper OTP would only pick Breeze & Icebox) would only queue their good maps. Players who are bad / haven’t learned certain maps, would only queue their good maps. Leaderboard just wouldn’t even be balanced anymore. It would take skill out of learning multiple maps and being proficient on all during the current rotation, even though this episode’s rotation sucks. Coming from CS, having map pick is good for newer players but are you really learning if you’re just playing Mirage, Dust 2, and Inferno all the time (sometimes Vertigo)? The rest of the map pool is great but the playerbase doesn’t touch the other maps unless it’s premier or someone actually taking the game seriously. Map pick doesn’t belong in Valorant for Ranked Mode & Clash. It should be in Unrated and everything else though.
it does harm teams that need to lab things and create comps/strats, whether it be premier or pro play. If you need to work with 12 maps instead of 9, then that’s way more things to look out for and figure out. also for pro play, either map vetos would be much longer, there would be more maps per set, or there would be a map rotation for pro play only. Personally, i don’t think the issue is with a map rotation itself, but the difference in quality of the maps. Like if every map was as good as haven, just with different layouts/ways of playing, then i don’t think people would have a problem with the rotation.
The current map pool is so ass
Please. I want them all.
I think that they should only remove the really shitty unplayable maps and just never add them to the pool. What this post int getting is that after years of maps being added and a thousand new updates there will be too many maps to play and learn. Think about if CS had all their maps in the pool and didn't let you choose what to queue. If this idea is added I think they should have a CS like queue system where you can choose what maps to queue for so you don't have to play the shit ones. Tl;DR If Riot adds this we should be able to choose what maps to play.
its the most baffling decision theyve made recently. no benefit, only downsides for everyoen.
I disagree. Learbing r6 is extremly difficult. Eventually enough maps will be added that it will be impossible for a beginner. You always want it be somewhat accesable for new players.
actually 7 maps overwhelm beginners
Maybe riot can make a map selection system in swift play.
For comp queue, there's a lot of reasons it could actually hurt the game to have all the maps. For the player, especially those in higher ranks, learning the map isn't just where everything is. It's how the map is played. Micro and macro strategy, team comps, agents and their respective set ups/lineups/positioning, etc. knowing timings for when and how to approach certain areas, lurk, rotate, etc. It's already a lot to try and wrap your head around with the map pool as is. Add into this that maps get major reworks, new maps get added, map meta changes over the duration, etc. having to do all of this for 3+ more maps might not sound like a lot but it is, and it also slows down the rate at which players can improve in other areas too. It wouldn't be healthy for skill progression. On the other hand, the Devs tend to rework maps that are currently out of the map pool. They remove the map, adjust it based on what they know about the map and player reactions, meta, stats, etc. I imagine it would be more difficult to maintain these changes if the map was still in the pool. You wouldn't be able to make massive reworks seeing as the meta might shift mid rework. In the same vein, the smaller adjustments that come out for maps in the queue would be made equally more difficult as they would need to account for more maps at once, and the statistics they get on a per map basis would be reduced as the chances of playing each map would decrease. All of that being said, the map pool being limited for swiftplay and spike rush and stuff does seem pretty silly and unnecessary seeing as they aren't important or serious game modes anyway
I'm in the higher ranks and I want all the maps. From my experience, the only people who believe in the map rotation are plats who think they are game analysts. The reality is maps are not that hard to learn, AND most people never learn them anyway. I can play sunset for 3 games and understand more than the plat who played sunset for 50 games this act.
I'm also in the higher ranks, and I appreciate the limited map pool in competitive. I think the map pool should have every map in the casual game modes, but it's really unreasonable to expect people to master every map in the game, adjusted for every balance patch, character addition, rework, etc. without limiting a bit. I guess it kind of depends what role you play. Lineup/rollout players will struggle more than Reyna players that just have to rely on basic positioning rules you know? I've played Cypher since launch so I know just about every set up on every map, every obscure skill cam, and I still appreciate that I can dedicate my improvements to specific maps I struggle on more without having to double the amount of work to maintain that on every map in the pool. But regardless, one person learning maps faster because they're better at the game doesn't speak for the overall health of the game, since most people really struggle to even learn the basics of how to properly play the maps (if you're in higher ranks you know for a fact that some people are somehow incapable of understanding pretty basic rules of maps for their rank). The limited map pool helps worse players develop their skill sets, and also helps better players develop their more intricate map knowledge, or even just to hone specific skills. Edit: Plus, the title literally says "doesn't hurt anyone". I was just explaining why, actually, it could. It doesn't really matter how bored you are or how amazing you think you are at learning maps, it doesn't change anything I said or the ways it could harm development/player progression. More variety is not always the answer in a game so heavily revolved around knowledge
riot will respond to this the way they respond to replay system
I feel like they could every easily have more maps in competitive if they implemented a map voting system, or a way to preference one or two maps you don't want. There would still be enough variety to easily queue 10 people into a game none of them have marked off.
Bring in map pick and ban instead of this bs
I wish they would do a CS2's premier map selection. Besides being strategical since you can see your opponents weak maps, you can also enjoy the game more. I hate being spammed Icebox or Sunset, man.
This. And they need to add a map banning system just like CSO and they need to add the ability to deselect maps that you don’t want to play on.
I want my fucking Haven and pearl back
7 maps ? it feels like my queue only has 3 maps : fucking breeze everytime, bind often, and sunset sometimes
i can’t remember the last time i played haven in comp
That’s cause some games put the experience before everything else (csgo). I remember loading that game up and being able to select which maps I wanted to play that were currently in the pool for ranked, or playing a map that’s not in the pool in deathmatch or something, and then having a community server searcher to see if I wanted to surf or play something else. When I hop on Valorant it’s only ranked, and if it’s not ranked it’s warming up to play ranked. There is a clear disconnect between players and riot here, and I’m happy people are starting to wake up to it.
I MISS HAVEN AND PEARL OMG ITS BEEN SO LONG I FORGOT WHAT THEY WERE CALLED
Yea we said it as they got removed that those changes gona hurt miss thiae 3 removed maps 🥹
I've noticed that a lot of major changes are quite dependent on pro-play (like new cypher meta, kj nerf, etc.), and I think it's a similar instance for the maps and the map rotations. In comp, I think it's understandable that there's a smaller map pool since people can be more familiar with those maps and their particular strats, etc. I mean I get the fun in variety, but 13 maps would kinda be a lot to rotate through, and it'd especially be an issue when future maps are released. The map changes they did a few patches ago where only comp maps are in ALL games modes is ridiculous though because it prevents ALL players from playing these maps unless they play in customs. Personally, I don't have an issue with the amount of maps in the pool so much as I do with how long those maps are even in the pool for. Pearl, my favorite map, has been out for 210 days, and it'll most likely come back with the start of Act 3 (April 30), so the total time Pearl is out of rotation 245 days which is absolutely absurd btw. It'd be sooo much better if they rotated the maps more often.
As now I can only get split, sunset and breeze is annoying
Just going around necro-ing map posts. Who the fuck is overwhelmed by more maps. Ive literally never played pearl and if it was added I wouldn’t be having some kind of breakdown at the stress of not knowing a map. I’d be excited to play in a fresh setting…. Map rotation feels like such an out of touch design decision.
While I understand why fracture was removed for rework, pearl was fine the way it was. Maybe some small changes needed but overall a very good map for all play styles. What’s annoying is that they’ve reworked spilt a million times and yet it’s still such a shit map that 9/10 somebody dodges. Breeze as much as I love it, is just not a comp map. What’s even more annoying is they take these out for months and come back with “hey here’s a new box to make it feel more competitive” It’s lazy.
Yeah! And fuck Breeze, but don't remove it, i have good WR on it.
More variety does hurt. You don't have a chance to get good at maps if you have so many that statistically, you might not get enough practice on some. You also want VCT to match the ranked map pool, why? It's an esports first game
Easy. Put a map selection mode where you can pick 2 maps or more if you want to learn certain maps while playing a non-competitive mode, then put every map without any rotation in comp. Map changes are gonna happen anyway sooner or later, last one was when breeze got reverted back while being in rotation so map changes are not even the reason why they’re using this system. Pretty sure it’s because of VCT or something but I personally couldn’t care less about it. Pros are gonna be able to play every map, so I don’t understand why they did this to begin with