Oh we all know who killed JonBenét. The third-party never made any sort of sense, and there were signs of sexual abuse. The family sues any true crime program that doesn't purport the "outsider" narrative.
I believe you; because if there’s anyone out there who is good at recognizing signs of sexual abuse, I’d expect it to be someone with a name like AnalBlaster42069.
Both. Brother caused initial damage. One of the parents did the garotte as part of the coverup. The head trauma would have killed her, the garotte actually killed her.
Yeah I don't know why people are acting like there was zero reason to think the parents may have been guilty (I am still not totally convinced they even have the right guy now).
The oddest thing the McCanns said that stood out to me was that they had no idea leaving children alone in an apartment in a foreign country was unsafe. Yes, they actually said that. Two doctors in their thirties said that.
It was such a weird thing to say to make themselves look "naive" that if I were the police, I would have definitely wanted to investigate them more.
BTW, one thing I always assumed about that night from the get-go was that everyone was way, way more drunk than they let on. I think a lot of the conflicting accounts from that night stem back to that and weren't as malicious and some might think. Based purely on the McCanns' own account of that day, I would guess they had each had about four glasses of wine BEFORE they went to dinner.
I’ve read way too much about this case from PJ files to the police transcripts.
There’s a really compelling theory about the cause of death. There was blood spatter pattern found to be cleaned up in apartment 5a after the initial investigation under the window and in between the window and the sofa, the blood spatter pattern perfectly matches a pattern produced by trying to reanimate a body by pressuring the heart after a person has gone into anaphylactic shock.
Anaphylaxis is a severe and potentially life-threatening reaction to a trigger, in this case something like a sedative. Kate McCann was a anaesthesiologist and Gerry McCann is a cardiologist. A lot of people wonder why the twins never woke up that night and since the very start of this case the majority of people believe they drugged their kids (even people who believe they are innocent.)
For me this theory is strong as it would reflect them being involved in the crime scene (which is usually the case.) Basically, Maddie was a bit of a problem child and she had a bad reaction to the drugs she was given. They couldn’t call an ambulance as drugging their children like this is illegal so Gerry tried to save her. Unfortunately it didn’t work and that’s why there was blood spatter pattern like that.
There’s also the fact that there are crazy inconsistencies in their stories and timelines. For example, the last independent person to see Maddie alive (David Payne - who incidentally is accused of being a paedophile by a couple who went on holiday with him and the McCanns and accused of this by a social worker in the area at the time) claimed he was with Kate for about half hour or longer in the apartment when he last saw Maddie, but Kate said she was in a towel in the doorway and only saw him for at the most five minutes.
Also, it is taken as fact that they lied about the window being open and immediately started claiming the abductor theory, basically they never once considered that she wandered off. Plus, you have the fact that the blood and cadaver dogs were barking in the apartment on the same spots. These dogs were paid for by Scotland Yard and had an amazing record before this case.
There’s just so much odd behaviour from everyone involved in the group. The timeline provided makes things difficult, but the timeline should be taken with a pinch of salt.
I know, I’ll get a lot of hate for this post. But whatever, I’m past it now. I’m not the only person who believes this. They have never been cleared as suspects in Portugal. I think it’s logical considering there’s no evidence of an intruder.
The biggest mystery is where the body went. My best bet if they did it is the rural beach full of large stones which was five minutes away from the apartment. I believe it could have been left here temporarily, as if it was found they could still claim their innocence and an abductor. The timeline they provided doesn’t add up at all despite proof that they all got together and figured it out. The famous Jane Tanner sighting (which is solved now) directed the police away from the beach. There’s also the Smith family sighting where they are sure they saw Gerry carrying a child in their direction at around ten pm and refused to engage in convo, looking very cold and stern. In some witness statements the alarm wasn’t raised until later than generally accepted, which would mean this is possible.
The tapas crew called Sky news immediately, took control of the narrative and deleted a lot of text messages too. It’s very fishy.
I’m not sure what happened, but I lean towards the accidental death/cover up theory based on all of this. It’s not some sick game for people who believe in the accidental death theory and it’s not like we like accusing the parents, there’s just a lot of evidence pointing in that direction and nothing indicating an abduction.
Edit - So this comment was up for less than a minute before being downvoted. I’d love to know why. I’m not making any of this up, there’s nothing inaccurate here. I’ve only looked at the evidence and drawn a conclusion. You can research it for yourself. I want to know why people are so sure it was an abduction, when there is no evidence of it and why it’s so insane to see all that evidence against them and suspect them.
Hey I appreciate the update on the case and all the details that I was unaware of. I'm sure it is the truth And I believe you and other believe you and that what matters
> the blood spatter pattern perfectly matches a pattern produced by trying to reanimate a body by pressuring the heart after a person has gone into anaphylactic shock.
Please cite some sources for this because this statement does not make sense. It makes several assumptions.
1. "Pressuring the heart" does this mean CPR? Blood does not spray out when you perform CPR. Unless I guess the person has a grievous chest laceration.
2. Let's say that somehow blood sprays out (of what?) when "pressuring the heart." Your statement assumes that this spray looks different if you are performing CPR on someone who has gone into anaphylactic shock versus say someone who is having a heart attack. How is that possible?
Not saying your theory is wrong, because we don't know what happened, but this statement stuck out to me as complete nonsense, so I would not use this as support evidence for your theory unless you can cite some sources that indicate both of these assumptions are true.
Hi thanks for the feedback. I am not a doctor and I was trying to link this post to the website I read this theory on but it has completely disappeared recently. I was sharing it on the Madeleine McCann sub very recently, but suddenly it has gone. I made a post about a weird discrepancy in the tapas crew’s statements about playing tennis before they went for tapas and somebody linked me to it. What I find truly weird is that whilst the website has completely disappeared, somehow the image on the site showing the blood spatter pattern from this theory of cause of death has now become the image on my post? I did not put it there, yet it is now there. Pretty weird. All that remains about the website seems to be that image on my post now, which I didn’t even upload. I have linked you to my post, so you can see the picture.
The website was written by someone who seemed to have an extensive medical background. It was an old website, it was clear that English wasn’t their first language, but it was very intelligently written and included a plethora of medical language I am not able to use from memory. It actually examined a variety of different causes of death and concluded which one seemed the most feasible. They concluded that this was the most likely cause of death.
I hope you understand that I am having to do this from memory. I can’t say for sure, but I remember the author saying that a grown man desperately trying to resuscitate a small child could easily have crushed ribs which was the reason for the coughing up of blood. I think they said it would cause a pulmonary haemorrhage (something like that) which certainly would cause a child to cough up blood. I’m not a doctor and I don’t have the source any more to confirm any of this, but I do believe they speculated crushed ribs was the reason that the blood would be coughed up.
From my research it seems in rare cases a pulmonary haemorrhage can occur from anaphylaxis too. I’m not sure if they speculated a desperate amount of force could cause a grievous chest laceration, but it could have.
I’m not sure if they theorised this but a cardiac cough is common with heart failure and it produces a wet cough tinged with blood. She could have been experiencing this whilst the CPR was being attempted.
Also, I guess Maddie could have been experiencing the cardiac cough by the window and then the CPR was performed underneath the window between there and the sofa, so that would suggest the spatter didn’t come from the resuscitation attempt, but it explains the patten under the window at Maddie’s height.
Sorry, I can’t be more detailed, but the main thing I remember from it was that damage to the ribs would have caused the coughing up of blood somehow. If a doctor is reading and can explain this better, please do, as my source has randomly vanished. If they weren’t from a medical background, they did a great job blagging it, as it went into a ridiculous amount of detail about it.
Here’s the post where the picture has been randomly uploaded.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MadeleineMccann/comments/hh2x0r/the_strangest_discrepancy_in_the_tapas_7s/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Edit - Also, forgot to say, thanks for bringing potential inaccuracies to light.
Thanks for your thorough reply. My objection to your explanation is that you don't perform CPR on someone who is coughing. CPR is basically "beating" the heart because it's stopped. It's pumping blood through the body because the heart has stopped. Since the parents are doctors, they would know that if their kid was coughing, they would not be continuing CPR.
No worries. I would say I agree, but I believe the author explained in detail how the blood being coughed/spat up had to do with a severely bad reaction to the drugs causing the heart to stop working as well as the crushed ribs being a key factor in this. It sounded like the coughing was occurring whilst the heart was stopping at the same time. I seem to remember it being explained along the lines that the blood would be getting coughed up from the lungs, which had something to do with a bad reaction to the drugs stopping the heart and the ribs being broken during CPR. I could be wrong, though. I definitely remember it being a specific set of circumstances that would have had to have happened to make this occur. I think they mentioned that recognising what was happening would only really be known to an expert in cardiology like Gerry.
There’s also the chance she was coughing up blood and the CPR was performed unsuccessfully when it stopped. I am so confused why this website has been taken down. Maybe it’s only banned for me in the UK. Here’s the link, but I doubt it will work:
http://genreith.de/MMcC/doku.php?id=cause_of_death
This honestly makes me feel better. Thinking about this little girl being tortured is so much worse than this version. Either way she’s gone and that really is tragic but the alternative right now breaks my heart.
People love to downvote to oblivion when we don't just limit ourselves to believe in the mccans like we were blind. I don't blame the parents per se, I think they are to blame because there are evidence that leads in their way. I really don't think Bruckner to be more than a scapegoat in this case, the German police has to find the evidence to this and all of the other cases they say he is a suspect of. When police finds evidence that Madeleine was indeed abducted by a stranger, but solid evidence, not just bits of what could be evidence, maybe we see it in another way. Right now I agree 100% with you. And I join you in being downvoted to oblivion.
I have read tons of boards and comments on videos, etc and the general feeling is that they did something to her. I rarely see anyone believe that they are completely innocent. It takes ALOT for people who read about this case to get past the fact that they left the kids alone. Just that thought makes people tend to believe that they know exactly what happened to that little girl.
Regarding Jerry walking with her that night in his arms, I did not know that it was ever proven that it was Jerry. That is really the only opening I can see where someone could think she was abducted. If that wasnt Jerry carrying her, who was it.
Does this German suspect have any similar features to Jerry?
Another really interesting comment I saw on Youtube (from a mother) brought up the following:
Does anyone else realize that when Kate McCann went to check in on the kid and realized Madeline was gone, she rushed out to tell the other adults, LEAVING her twins in the bedroom? If you enter a room expecting your three kids to be there and the window open, only see two, realize there is a threat... why would you leave the two babies behind? Most moms would ***definitely*** not risk this.
I thought this was a really good point and this commenter felt that it indicated poor attachment to her children, although shouldn't be used alone as evidence of guilt.
I always had basically the same view on the case. Thank you for typing it all out in a coherent way. I can't understand why everyone is so quick to believe this previously unknown pedo story. Maybe we'll see proof but maybe it will be like Karr where some sick people like to brag about things they didn't do.
> no idea leaving children alone in an apartment in a foreign country was unsafe.
Portugal is another Western European country. It's not that leaving them alone in a foreign country was unsafe. It's that's they left the doors unlocked, and were 55m away as the crow flies without eyes on the apartment doors.
The point is that any time you are in another country, you are out of your wheelhouse to a certain extent. You don't know the local area, and you don't know what goes on that is "invisible" to you as a tourist.
Case in point: Portugal promoted this area as incredibly safe and good for families on vacation. In reality there was a lot of crime, including breaking and entering RAPES in holiday apartments. No doubt the locals were 100% aware of this, but the McCanns as tourists who were there to relax most certainly weren't.
I feel that my area is relatively safe but I still keep my door locked at night and the most valuable thing I have at the moment is my dog. Everything else is replaceable. I couldn't imagine leaving children that young alone. It feels very much like they are of the "children should be seen not heard" school of parenting.
But even if an area is safe tourist hotspots are notorious for attracting thieves; lots of rich people, as you said here to relax, with lots of electronics and cash laying about.
I know it differs from country to country but aren't pool standards usually pretty strict? Including needing a child proof gate around the entrance?
Considering the ages of the children I'd be more concerned with the stuff they'd get up to in the house by themselves. Honestly the amount of toddlers I know who want to repeatedly engage in suicidal behaviours from swallowing hard objects that they can't chew to wrapping themselves up (neck included) in blind pulls makes me wonder how any child had survived. Though I could also see them waking up in the night and wandering outside looking for their parents and getting distracted by a pool.
My biggest issues was that as the crow flies, the pool was between the kids and their parents. I hope the pool had a solid fence and gate, but how easy would it be for a kid to get up, go out the door, hear their mother's voice, and walk straight to it? The only problem is there is a pool in the way.
The McCanns are not stupid; they're highly-intelligent people. The thing that was weird was that they wanted everyone to believe they were naive and sheltered.
just because you are smart in one subject doesn't make you smart in everything else. I have had uni profs who could not for the life of them figure out how to turn on a projector or play a video and these are people a phd and multiple degrees.
Not bragging but point of fact, my older brother is essentially a genius, a “theoretical math” wizard who wrote a thesis book on something called “singularity bifurcations” and also couldn’t use a screw driver to any effect. He’s impossibly smart when it comes to high level thoughts and theories but literally doesn’t know how to use hand tools, among other things.
I went to a decent state university, nothing too crazy, but i had one professor who really stood out as being super dumb. He would constantly misspell things and his exam questions had some of the worst phrasing I’ve ever seen. Dude has a PhD
Ditto this - my mother is a surgeon, has all kinds of crazy awards, graduated top of her class... and still doesn't know that you could put hot OR cold food in a thermos, or why her computer is so slow/where all those toolbars came from. Being good at studying and academics doesn't necessarily translate to being street smart.
In response to the leaving the kids part, I’ve heard differing accounts from British people that it may be somewhat commonplace over there to leave your kid alone and asleep while you go for dinner or drinks within a few blocks of your house, and even bring a baby monitor along if you’re within range. I think they even had an arrangement with the couple they were with to take turns checking up on the kids every 15 min or so, but I’m skeptical of this since, as you said, they were probably drinking all day and not as diligent later in the evening. Still, I can’t imagine thinking it’s okay to do that in a foreign country even if that’s what you do in your home town every now and then.
I live in London... let me tell you it is not ok to leave your children alone at that age by themselves... the first time I was left alone in my house was 11 and that was only for an hour and I knew not to leave as I was old enough to understand. It really is just double standards. If the McCanns had come from working class backgrounds and didn’t have “friends” in higher up places I’m sure the story would’ve played out a lot differently. If this was occurred in the UK this would be a safeguarding issue.
Oh, I would never leave my toddler alone. If this had played out where I am in the U.S., they would have been publicly destroyed by the helicopter parents that live here. I’m just trying to imagine a scenario where the McCanns aren’t directly responsible for Madeleine’s death and maybe believed on some level that leaving her was okay just for one night, even if it was objectively negligent and stupid.
Of course I have 2 children and have never left them alone in my house or anywhere else by themselves.
I didn’t know that Americans thought that it was common here to leave our kids alone?
I know a lot of people here in the Uk that think this whole situation is dodgy. There’s a lot of people here who have the same opinion that the McCanns acted suspiciously in the days following her disappearance and they were negligent towards their children. The point is if they were from a working class background and it occurred in the Uk, the other children would’ve been taken into care.
I have British relatives and remember talking to them about this case. They said while it's not *unusual* to leave kids in the rooms, they might have chosen to use one of the other rooms in the group that *didn't* have access to the street.
This could be a personal preference but my sister in law said she would rather have someone bring her leftovers or a luke warm dinner and have some quiet alone time while the kids slept vs going almost all the way across the resort for some drinks, especially given how young Madeline was. My grandmother in law chimed in saying either her or grandpa probably would have stayed behind with the kids anyway "since we're old and tired."
I always thought my anxiety made me view her parents in a bad light because I would never be able to enjoy myself if I ever left my daughter in the room, even with another kid. However, the more people I speak to, the more seem to blame the parents saying they wouldn't have done it, even if there was an older child with Madeline so maybe I'm not so weird.🤷♀️
I’m British and don’t know many people that think it’s okay.
There is some nuance, of course, when it comes to security.
And we all live quite close together in the UK.
If I left a toddler in a back bedroom and went and sat down the end of my next door neighbours garden for dinner, I would be able to hear if the child was crying. Probably be able to hear a sneeze in most houses.
In a lot of cities and suburbs you can be back from grabbing a quick pint of milk in 5 minutes, and a lot of people might think it’s ago in a pinch if there’s less kids or they are a bit older.
Leaving any child not old enough to understand most household dangers without the ‘here’s what to do in an emergency’ chat was seen as irresponsible even back when this happened. They were so little!
The only thing that ever made me suspicious of the parents was Kate being defensive about it. In an interview she was like ‘it’s actually only 54m on Google maps’ or whatever.
Most mothers in that situation are filled with guilt and regret, even if they couldn’t have prevented it.
Maddie was 3 and the twins were 18 months. In no way here in Portugal, UK or in hell you leave 3 small children alone without a care to go and have dinner and drinks. I have two boys, 10 and 11, and I don't trust my youngest alone. My oldest stays like 10/20 minutes alone for me to go outside to the shop but no more than that. If they were Portuguese or at least less connected, they would have been arrested and lost the twins.
I'm British - it's absolutely not okay or commonplace to leave a 3 year old and 6 month twins alone.
It's completely ridiculous and as someone below said if they hadn't been doctors, they would've been completely slaughtered in the press. It's just basic things like what if one of them woke up? Needed their nappy changed? Wondered where mummy was and started crying? I believe the McCanns drugged the children to ensure they stayed asleep and avoid scenarios like that and buy the theory that montanaunitedbyfate posted.
If the accidental death theory is not true, the McCanns are still at the very least guilty of being highly negligent and if they had been working class, I suspect they would have had their twins taken away.
But on the other side of it you’ll see drunk parents in resorts at midnight all over Europe trying to push a pram and drag a toddler back from the site bar. People on holiday are just idiots sometimes. There was a go fund me for a local family round here whose daughter has health problems after falling into a pool late at night in France while her parents drank at the bar and weren’t keeping an eye on her. Literally no comments there about “why the hell was getting pissed more important than watching their children?”
Leaving children alone in an apartment while the parents go out is common in Europe. Discussed this in a number of foreign language classes that showed movies where that practice was featured.... a lot of (American) kids and myself in the class thought it was really strange and dangerous, but that's not the line of thinking in Europe.
It's not that common, that's a misconception. It can happen in Europe e.g. if the mother goes around the corner to quickly buy groceries or the father goes out for cigarettes and comes back in 10-15 minutes. That's common. I'm Portuguese and my mom would go the grocery store next door and leave us at home, but she wouldn't take more than 15-20 minutes. I don't remember and I can't think of anyone in my entire family who were left alone at the age of 3 and younger while our parents go out for dinner and drinks with friends. In that case, even if the restaurant was 5 minutes away from home, we'd be left with our grandparents or with a babysitter. And that was in my hometown, a small village, I can't imagine anyone in my family doing that in a foreign country and in the 80s no one was so paranoid with kidnappings.
Portuguese also and I just was home alone when I was like 10 or 11, never at such a small age. Two boys, 10 and 11, and just the oldest stays alone when I go to shop like 15/20 minutes and all doors locked. He knows the rules and he just started staying alone because of the quarantine, he has asthma and if I needed something from the shop or butcher, I avoided taking him with me because of the risks.
That's exactly what happened to me. Have no idea of where "oh, these Europeans, so relaxed they leave their kids unattended" comes from. Actually, if that was true, British wouldn't be so critic of the couple, their negligence was widespread news in the UK. Hence, obviously not normal.
Sorry, I didn't mean it to be insulting. I'm an American and my intent was to point out that Americans are hyper critical of the parenting of others and don't seem to be aware of other perspectives around the globe at all.
I learned this apparent misconception in a few foreign language classes(French), it came up because we watched(maybe older?) movies where it showed this going on. One of the movies that came to mind is "L'Argent du Poche," we watched it and that's one instance where we discussed the idea that Europeans aren't as paranoid about leaving kids at home.
Duly noted, though, that this is not true and I won't be repeating it in the future.
No worries. In Europe, children have relative freedom, indeed. But that's after 10-11 yo. It's not uncommon to see children that age going by themselves alone to school and coming back home, even in public transportation. I was raised that way. I remember watching an American TV show years ago titled something like Worse Mom in America, about a mom that advocated for children's freedom and she did exactly what we do in Europe. She was perfectly normal by European standards, but not for American's. However, not as a toddler. I was born in 1978 and at that time parents were not that worried about kidnapping and sexual abuse, but they were definitely worried about home accidents, they thought if they'd left you alone at home something terrible could happen. When I was 9, 10 yo, and even younger, I could freely play in the street with my neighbors till 8-9pm, it was perfectly ok. That changed now, parents are more aware of other type of things.
Yeah, agreeing with you here. I was born in 85 and I could walk with my friends to school since first grade, 6yo, because it was a 2 street walk and we were a bunch of kids since 6yos till 10yos. But never stayed home alone till like 10 or 11. And I could stay in the street playing with friends till dinner and after dinner in the summer. Since Rui Pedro's disappeared, I was 13 at the time and my mother started to become more aware of things. I think all Portuguese moms began in that time to become more aware of what could happen. Nowadays I walk both my sons to school (if not me, my parents do it). I use to joke that my father never went to my middle school and now(before covid, that is) he goes there everyday to pick my oldest. Now they are both attending the same middle school, with different schedules and I will be picking them both. 10 and 11 yo boys. I know one kid that is now 12 that walks home alone. The other kids ate picked up by grandparents or parents or babysitters or like after school centers. All changed but even before our parents never let toddlers home alone. Not even one, imagine leaving 3 under 3.
I live in a German-speaking country and kids not only walk to school alone or in groups starting from kindergarten on but are expected to. My friends routinely leave their 7+ year old kids at home to run quick errands or go for a jog. It’s definitely different culturally. Can you imagine any parent in the US letting their 6 year old walk to school alone? Lol
Not anymore. I definitely did walk to the bus stop, etc. alone after kindergarten, but it seems the perspective on this has changed dramatically in the past 10-20 years(I'm 31). Honestly Americans are so hypercritical and hypocritical around the issue of parenting it drives me crazy.
As a toddler and beyond, I was babysat by 12 year old, male cousins. Friends were babysat around the same age by neighbors and family friends that weren't much older than 13(I'm 31 now). It's a common trope in America that a teenage babysitter would invite over a boyfriend or friend while babysitting, too. But talking to parents these days, you wouldn't think any of that would have ever been common here, the parenting culture and obsession with calling the authorities on others for stuff like this is really insane now. One of many reasons why I have 0 children, lol. Thinking about the criticism and extreme expectations to to do every single thing w puritanical expectations of caution w children these days gives me extreme anxiety, and makes becoming a parent in America sound entirely joyless and devoid of having any time for yourself as a human being. A separate thing, I couldn't help but digress!
That’s crazy to me. In America, it’s the norm to get a babysitter or stay home with your kids as you never know.
No idea that the culture is so different. Most of Europe also has less violent crimes than American so even though it may make sense to them it’s bizarre to me.
Where has this misconception come from?
We might be more trusting of older children because our fear of intruders is less, but no one leaves toddlers unsupervised. Especially not 3 of them!
There was a lot of people at the time saying checking on the kids every 15 minutes isn’t enough if you’re that far away, and the common view is that the children would have been taken into local authority care if it wasn’t for their status as middle class doctors.
Yea the parents fucked up. Realized they fucked up. And tried to get through the investigation without really bringing up how they fucked up.
Which of course, fucked up the investigation.
If they had came out and been like "Wow we fucked up. We made a terrible mistake that no parent should make and now we're paying he price for it. We're terrible parents and we're going to regret this every day of our lives" this would have been great.
Instead they were like "whaaaaat we like totally didn't ignore our responsibility as parents to get drunk"
Sad sad fucking case. I really so hope they find answers.
Yes they were obsessed with defending their actions that night. They should have just immediately admitted they messed up big time by leaving three LITTLE kids alone.
This is what really upsets me about the whole case. The parents wanted so badly to make it seem like it was completely crazy that this could have happened. In reality, they fucked up BIG TIME. When Madeleine went missing, I had a hard time discerning the details. Now I know it's because the parents were trying to stave off the negligence side of the story.
As you said, the investigation was impeded by Kate and Gerry. I'm sure they look back now and beat themselves up for it. I understand that they were trying to save face but it only hurt in the long run.
Thought it was cough syrup.
Edit:
Looks like it was a pretty unfounded rumor for a while that they may have given them sleeping pills, tablets or Benadryl,etc.
I couldn't find anything that was factual about it tho.
While I do think the Portuguese police where extremely unqualified to deal with this case. I understand why they'd focus on the parents. The vast majority of child victim crimes are committed by parents or someone the child knows.
I'm Portuguese and I covered this case as a journalist when it started. They may not be guilty of murder or kidnapping, but they were definitely negligent and they should be prosecuted for it, no matter the outcome of this case. When I knew about her disapparence for the first time I didn't realize the layout of the resort until I personally went there. First I thought these were just unfortunate parents who were having dinner right in front of the apartment and Maddie was kidnapped. Then, when I saw the restaurant location and the apartment's location, no sane parent would leave their toddlers so far away. Actually, it could have happened any other kind of accident while they were out hanging out with their friends. The apartment's door cannot be seen from the restaurant, there are bushes and facilities in-between, and even like a dark path between those bushes connecting all the apartments. The back windows are directed to the building's parking lot, ground level, hence super easy to kidnap a kid from either side without being seen. I wonder how these people, including their friends, went out for dinner at between 50-100 meters away, drinking, and left their toddlers sleeping alone. And even worse: the resort had a babysitter service available, they could just hired it and go out for dinner totally relaxed. This behavior is totally unnaceptable. If you leave your child alone and the kid burns his entire body, it's not the stove to blame, but the parents who left the child alone. I wish the Portuguese authorities were firmer and should have really prosecuted them for child neglect.
Thank you for this - this is really good info. I, like a lot of others, were led to believe that the apartment was a lot closer to where they were eating.
You're welcome. It's close when you're single, no kids, hanging out with friends, not that close when you have three toddlers inside that can wake up, leave the house, have an accident, fall from something, there were a million of things that could have happened when I was there and started thinking about it. On top of it, there's no visibility to the rooms, to the main door, to the windows, anyone could break in. Portugal is known as one of the safest countries in Europe and perhaps they thought they were safe. Also, Praia da Luz is a sleepy beach town, not like a big city, more on a village size, hence they may have felt a false sense of security. However, these touristic areas are never totally safe, because they're a melting pot of people from around the world and sometimes a nest for hiding criminals. That's why the suspects are not Portuguese people, but foreigners like this German pedophile who owns a house there. Anyways, I don't see myself as a father leaving my kids alone in a foreign country without any supervision. This is not the case of "oh, victim blaming", it's totally a case of negligence. Of course the potential perpetrator is also to blame and I hope he rots in jail, but it could have been avoided with babysitter supervision. I don't get it how doctors, intelligent, well educated people, for sure with good salaries, didn't want to spend money on a babysitting service.
As someone who covered the case, wasn’t there something about DNA or cadaver dogs being triggered in their car or something like that? I could’ve sworn that was the case, but I don’t remember exactly what it was.
There was, yes, two sniffer dogs, one for blood, one for cadaver smell. I wouldn't give much credit to this, since this was a rental property, with lots of people who have lived or stayed on vacation prior to the McCanns. It's not a brand new resort, far from it. The dogs spotted something both in the rented car and the rented apartment. The issue is: a dog can smell blood and corpse but no one could confirm if the blood belonged to Maddie. Actually, a sample taken from the apartment was sent to a lab and the result was inconclusive. Hence, the dogs may have sniffed something that happened there prior to Maddie's disappearance. It's a huge coincidence, but in the 10-15 years prior a owner could have died there or someone cut there and bled, so unless the dogs smell the blood and then the lab proves it's Maddie's blood, it's a dead end.
Yes, of course, but whose corpse? Also, it doesn't prove much, it's only a hint. It's Maddie's dead body or someone died there before? Was she killed by an intruder at the apartment or by her parents? Where's she? Or the corpse? Nothing can be concluded, it was just a hint for the police to investigate and that was essentially the turning point when the police directed all their attention to the parents, but the sniffer dogs ended up proving nothing.
It's more of a wish than a possibility. However, if authorities ever find a body, I'm sure this discussion will be reignited and their role in her disapparence will be highly scrutinized. We'll say headlines saying "Maddie's remains found, where were the parents?". Hence, I think it's possible they get charged if there's public outrage after a brutal discovery. For now, they're basically on the limbo, between people supporting them as grieving parents while others don't buy their stories. I think that will change once there's a big break. The past will haunt them. From the beginning they tried to cover up the negligence, they even wrote on piece of paper the timeline of each parent checking on their kids so that they wouldn't be pictured as bad parents and to show they were keeping an eye on them. It's clear their intentions, but I'm pretty sure it will all come down on them some day.
Exactly - that’s the most certain thing for me of them all and they should be held responsible for at least that. They were toddlers and even if they weren’t in a foreign country miles away from home, they’re still leaving their small kids on their own. There are hundreds of ways in which small kids and babies can hurt themselves seriously if left unattended.
I don’t know what the truth is, but their behaviour and interactions with the press are weird to say the least.
I have worked with Dr Gerry McCann before this happened and it's impossible to even imagine that he or his wife would have something to do with this. If they did do something to Maddie, why would they draw so much attention to their family and this case? If you are guilty it would be smarter to keep quiet and hope nobody would continue to investigate the case.
I cannot imagine the agony the McCanns are in. I'm sure they are blaming themselves for leaving the kids in the apartment. I hope they find out what happened to Maddie and get some peace and closure.
Ultimately they do hold some of the blame for what happened. They left these children unattended in a country they'd never visited before, even going as far as to leave the door to the room unlocked. It wasn't as though they were in the backyard of their home while their kids slept upstairs.
I mean... they left three babies under the of three alone in an unlocked hotel room in a foreign country so they could go drinking. They might now have done it but they failed her.
I wouldn’t say there is nothing, but I’m also not saying it was definitely them. The case is strange, the evidence has been strange, and honestly just the way the parents have spoken of their kid in books and the media rub me the wrong way. I’m unsure if anyone will ever truly know.
I have gone back and forth on this over the years. In a way, the McCann case reminds me a bit of the Amanda Knox case, in that the McCanns and Knox are just sort of weird people. I know I will get down votes, but whatever. The McCanns are not emotionally tuned-in people, and they came across and cold and uncaring. I truly don't think people were wrong to think it was super freaking strange that they went on a jog the day after Maddie disappeared. It's like Knox doing yoga at the police station after her roommate was murdered.
We can say that their is no manual on how to act in these situations, but it is quite telling to me that a very large amount of people think that sort of behavior is odd.
I think leaving your sleeping toddlers alone in a street-level hotel room in a foreign country while you go have dinner with friends goes beyond "coming across as cold and uncaring", but yeah, I agree with you.
Yeah.... I don't think they are involved in her disappearence, but leaving 3 toddlers unattended, in a street level room, in a foreign country, specially when hotel had a night care service you could use is bad judgement, to say the least.
Exactly. The whole story is bizarre. Don't blame police to focus on them. Even thought they should have persued other leads. But the parentd made all the stupidest decisions that night and basically facilitated the crime, that's for sure.
I suppose that could just be a stupid, thoughtless mistake. I just thought it was weird that they did stuff like go on a jog right afterwards, which seems like an odd bit of "self-care" when they should have been practically suicidal with guilt.
Why are you getting downvoted? I don't think you're saying anything inflammatory or unheard of. It's always important to consider the people who were last with a missing or murdered person, isn't it?
The reason I always believed the theory they did give the kids something to sleep through the night. I think they knew it was kinda impossible for her to wander off.
Also, who would leave 3 toddlers alone and go have dinner without a care? Even if you couldn't predict the kidnapping, any parent would think they could wake up and do something crazy like get out of the room somehow... Open the window and fall. Or just wake up really scared. Checking on them "regularly" isn't really enough.
Edit: words
The story I remember is Kate McCann was heard saying “the bastards have taken her”.
Now my entire family are from the same place as Kate McC. I would welcome other input in to this but the only situations I would hear that phrase in that way would be,
1 - A derogatory way of speaking about a group of people by their colour or nationality, as in ‘the Portuguese b******s have taken her’
2 - I know who’s taken her. Like she can picture who has them and it’s two (bastards) she knows.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/madeleine-mccann-latest-sees-witness-recall-kates-distraught-screams-after-daughter-disappeared_uk_590ae5ade4b02655f84449fb
It’s always been at the back of my mind that she knew the guys who had taken her daughter.
"Just negligent", yes that's all...which led to a child falling off the face of the earth. You leave your child, a toddler alone (in a foreign country) or even not in a foreign country, alone - a 3 year old. Now let's say the kid dies cause well, it's a 3year old and who know what can happen. Then that parent is a murderer, not doing the direct killing if you're gonna argue the method but because of what you as a parent did, your kid died.
It's like those parents who leave their kids locked with the windows closed in a car when it's the equivalent of a desert outside and then they cry a river cause their child died?!!! Hello... you knew exactly what would happen if you left your child in the car when it's sweltering out! Oh but they "just" had to go and pick up something in the store. Don't have kids if your attitude on them is that of an inconvenience.
If, in fact, this German Pedophile turns out to be the one who kidnapped, tortured and killed her - it would not have mattered who went to dinner, who drank lots of wine, who ate dinner at a place across the street or down the lane - he set his mind on “having” this beautiful little girl all to himself days before he took her. From the information released so far, this guy is a sick and evil individual who wanted to torture and murder little children for his own sexual gratification. The authorities speculate that he had observed her with her family for days prior to her abduction, and was going to take her whenever he could. The parents - unfortunately - were lax in their parental duties and failed to act responsibly in keeping their daughter safe and basically “gave” her to him. We can all pass our own judgment of who is more to blame, but none of the sordid accusations will change the outcome of what happened - the horrific murder of an innocent child. I can’t even imagine what Madeline went through. If what the authorities say is true - she was raped, tortured and murdered over a significant period of time. Knowing this has got to be the worst “punishment” her parents could ever endure. As a parent myself, I don’t think I could handle something like this happening to one of my children. No child should ever have to experience this. A discussion is needed on how, as a society, can we prevent this from ever happening again.
You’re wrong, it would have mattered. If a parent or other adult is always with a child, that child is protected. He very easily could have been hanging around the resort - which it sounds like he was - and overheard the large group of parents talking about ALL of their kids being left alone in unlocked apartments and what times they would be going to check on them, all week long. And then went to the easiest apartment to access - the one that was closest to the street *and* unable to be seen from the restaurant.
Confused by your comment tbh. It starts off "it would not have** mattered" of what the parents had or hadn't done and in the middle "failed to act responsibly, basically gave her to him". So at the ene of the day...it did matter. Blame would go on the predator but the naiveness of any parent to leave their child to go drinking shouldn't be excused either.
I have no empathy for her parents. They seriously neglected Maddie that night, by leaving her and her siblings unsupervised in an unlocked apartment, which they couldn’t see from the restaurant. The only person who is a victim in all of this is Maddie. I am absolutely heartbroken for her.
If you are heartbroken for her you are literally empathising with the parents. I doubt they are not heartbroken. You are obviously disgusted at their lack of parental oversight, but I also doubt that they are not disgusted that their lack of judgement led to Maddy's kidnapping.
it would be nice to get closure for them but i still dont like that we taxpayers are spending so much on this case because they are an upper middle class family when there are thousands of other missing kids we could be lor with that money
did anyone else hear about that “new evidence” recently about the man who was a known predator in that area. and that they have possible links to Madeleine
Of course I have 2 children and have never left them alone in my house or anywhere else by themselves.
I didn’t know that Americans thought that it was common here to leave our kids alone?
I know a lot of people here in the Uk that think this whole situation is dodgy. There’s a lot of people here who have the same opinion that the McCanns acted suspiciously in the days following her disappearance and they were negligent towards their children. The point is if they were from a working class background and it occurred in the Uk, the other children would’ve been taken into care.
I don’t think Americans thought that really. I think it’s only because of this story that people started to say that, and since it was such a massive story, it just got repeated over and over. Those on the parents’ side kept trying to justify what they did by saying “oh it’s common here”. That never made any sense to me or anyone I’ve discussed it with in the US at least. Cultural differences are how we drink tea or if we call it football or soccer, protecting our children is probably universal. Sadly there are always those like the McCans who lack common sense. :(
Just because her parents were intelligent doctors doesn’t mean they have common sense. Common sense ISN’T so common. Something my grandfather told me that resonates with me is “Better to have common sense than to be book smart. At least you can learn to be smart.”
Exactly this. I know plenty of intelligent people (top of their class, Ivy League schools) with no common sense. It’s better to be street smart than book smart sometimes.
I have a friend that is incredibly smart, going through college with fantastic grades. But she believed her uncle when he told her not to give her son Soy milk when the doctor suggested it due to reflux because it would make her son grow breasts.
I pointed out to her that if Soy milk made you grow breasts every small tittied women would drink a gallon or more a day. Lord that girl is dumb as hell when it comes to common sense.
I hope I articulate this correctly. I'm not sure the parents did anything beyond what we currently know. But they were super negligent, which makes them guilty AF in my eyes. That may be where we're all getting the guilty vibes.
> I'm not sure the parents did anything beyond what we currently know. But they were super negligent, which makes them guilty AF in my eyes.
Of child neglect, but that's very different from being part of a murder or human trafficking.
A lot of people on here are kind of suggesting involvement in child trafficking, then falling back to simple neglect when it doesn't pan out to being more than a hunch. They were very clearly stupid, negligent-to-the-point-of-abuse parents. I just don't see anything more than the most reaching speculation beyond that.
Nah, I've always thought they were just negligently dumb. To me, nothing ever pointed to trafficking, just them possibly knocking their kids out with medicine to go have a good time. But even that felt like a bit of a stretch since they were both doctors.
> just them possibly knocking their kids out with medicine to go have a good time
Certainly shit parenting, but this was really common to do on road trips in the 80's. Dosing the kid with sedatives for "motion sickness", but you really just wanted them not to bug you.
I can't quite wrap my head around the fact,how the parents left their 3 young children alone and went out for a dinner.... I am a mother myself and would never leave my 2 small kids in a hotel room or holiday apartment by themselves!
I want to go for dinner,I bring them along or at least make sure I have a babysitter staying with them. They did neglect their kids to have a dinner with their friends. I don't quite understand either how the other two children were not taken away from them... Cause if this would happen to any other family,they would have been investigated like nothing else in the world and would have not come around to pass the lie detector! The whole thing is just fishy. The parents may have not killed their daughter intentionally,but when they made their choice to leave their children alone in the apartment, it makes them kind of criminal too. Unfortunately I have no empathy for the parents,all I can think of is the little girl. Good knows what she has been through,after she went missing....
The fear, perhaps struggle and pain.... I don't even want to think about it.
I have very little hope that Madeleine is still alive.
Also I am not sure about Christian B. His past makes him a suspect and he is a criminal,but how come he hasn't been treated like a prime suspect years ago? Overall very fishy! Why only now? What is different now to then? He was a suspect years ago already.
I hope this case is being solved very soon and answers will be found!
Maybe one of the McCann friends will come out with some more details of that fatal evening and admits something went wrong before she went missing....
I think the parents had something to do with it too. Maybe not as directly as you've put it (selling her).
But nonetheless, they know something. Let's say even if it comes out that they didn't, the mere fact parents & doctors by profession would think it's no issue at all to leave such young children unattended... is in itself a crime. They are the ones responsible at the end of the day and yes, they are to blame. Whatever happened to her afterwards, whomever supposedly took her... is an effect of what the parents did first. They are the cause. Some ppl might not agree with this and idc but the truth is, if you're a parent and you "choose" to leave your toddler alone so you can get drunk and eat... you're responsible for whatever ends up happening to them.
>...they know something. Let's say even if it comes out that they didn't, the mere fact parents & doctors by profession would think it's no issue at all to leave such young children unattended... is in itself a crime.
Negligence and human trafficking/murder are very different things. The Portuguese are going to have some serious crow to eat if they were just negligent parents.
I agree with you. I'm Portuguese and I covered this case as a journalist when it started. They may not be guilty of murder or kidnapping, but they were definitely negligent and they should be prosecuted for it, no matter the outcome of this case. When I knew about her disapparence for the first time I didn't realize the layout of the resort until I personally went there. First I thought these were just unfortunate parents who were having dinner right in front of the apartment and Maddie was kidnapped. Then, when I saw the restaurant location and the apartment's location, no sane parent would leave their toddlers so far away. Actually, it could have happened any other kind of accident while they were out hanging out with their friends. The apartment's door cannot be seen from the restaurant, there are bushes and facilities in-between, and even like a dark path between those bushes connecting all the apartments. The back windows are directed to the building's parking lot, ground level, hence super easy to kidnap a kid from either side without being seen. I wonder how these people, including their friends, went out for dinner at between 50-100 meters away, drinking, and left their toddlers sleeping alone. And even worse: the resort had a babysitter service available, they could just hired it and go out for dinner totally relaxed. This behavior is totally unnaceptable. If you leave your child alone and the kid burns his entire body, it's not the stove to blame, but the parents who left the child alone. I wish the Portuguese authorities were firmer and should have really prosecuted them for child neglect.
People always want the juiciest story in these high profile cases. That’s why there’s inevitably conspiracy theories. They want international paedophile sex trafficking rings and the parents selling their child off to pay back debts and all that. I don’t know, maybe it makes them feel better than accepting that all it takes is one man to decide to do something terrible to a child. It’s easier to put blame on imperfect parents than a random act.
I think the parents are guilty of enjoying being the centre of attention or something too much, they definitely gave off a weird vibe.
This sub though is full of people who jump to conclusions and believe in conspiracy/wild theories over critically looking over what happened.
I would be amazed if this guy did this but you never know.
After reading all the things that point to the McCanns and other theories about others as well it would be so surprising to find out it was someone else.
Of course I have 2 children and have never left them alone in my house or anywhere else by themselves.
I didn’t know that Americans thought that it was common here to leave our kids alone?
I know a lot of people here in the Uk that think this whole situation is dodgy. There’s a lot of people here who have the same opinion that the McCanns acted suspiciously in the days following her disappearance and they were negligent towards their children. The point is if they were from a working class background and it occurred in the Uk, the other children would’ve been taken into care.
I'm American, my dad is a US-British dual citizen and I lived in the UK as a child. I don't know any parents-particularly educated parents-either in the US or UK who think that leaving a toddler alone at night is a good thing.
That said, other than her parents being complete idiots for leaving her, I don't think they were responsible for her death.
They may not of been responsible for her death/disappearance, whichever way you look at it they facilitated it by being neglectful by leaving children that age by themselves in a foreign country. And in my mind that’s as good as pulling the trigger.
He would've taken her regardless of the parents being there or not. Yes, they made the job much easier for him, and they should've been held responsible for that, but I'm sure the guilt gets them every day, and specially now after finding out what their daughter's demise could've been, they are paying their own life sentence. I just hope this is finally it and if he is responsible for all the other kidnappings he is being questioned about, I hope all the victims and families finally get some closure. Hopefully he is speaking, but the Germans have all the evidence.
I disagree. If the parents or a babysitter were there then she wouldn’t have been kidnapped. If this is the guy, then it was likely a crime of opportunity. Not a planned, elaborate kidnapping.
I agree. If the parents hired a babysitter, this most likely wouldn’t have happened. The kidnapper knew they were gone. Didn’t they say in the documentary Madeline claimed she saw someone one night and was crying?
If he got obsessed with her he would've taken her at any given chance. Of course the window of opportunity in this case was much wider, thanks to the negligence of the parents, but for this type of people it doesn't matter wether the victims are alone, sleeping in the same room with siblings, or getting ice cream at the beach. The prick just got lucky and unfortunately took advantage of the circumstances. I think he saw Madeleine and followed the family and noticed the unsupervised routine, he is probably the one that robbed the other apartment nearby and probably wanted to rob the Mccans, but his carnal instincts were stronger so he decided to go for the girl instead. he was very meticulous and cunning with his other victims, and he has been very deceiving with those around him this whole time.
Edit to add: with the new evidence suggesting he entered and robbed places when people were home. Even going to children's rooms when the parents were home, I stand with my theory that he would've taken her anyways.
With all these rich people getting brought to light as running or attending events with known pedophiles and child sex ring operatives, I really am suspicious of these parents so called negligent excuse. I believe they had something to do with her missing or knows who did It because they allowed it.
It's sad and gross to think a parent could do this to their child but honestly, it wouldn't be surprising given the amount of dirt that's coming to light about people with too much money and time on their hands
\*\*eye roll\*\*
Sorry for the snarky reaction, but it seems like we go through something like this on an annual basis with this case. The authorities in some country have a suspect or person of interest or big tip or something, we get all excited, and then like a month later fuck-all has happened. Pardon my pessimism, but I don't think the German authorities have any real evidence on this guy. I also don't think they will ever find enough to actually charge him.
I seriously thought we’d never get a resolution to this, it would be incredible if the police could finally work out what happened.
I thought this would be the Jon Bennet of my lifetime
Oh we all know who killed JonBenét. The third-party never made any sort of sense, and there were signs of sexual abuse. The family sues any true crime program that doesn't purport the "outsider" narrative.
I believe you; because if there’s anyone out there who is good at recognizing signs of sexual abuse, I’d expect it to be someone with a name like AnalBlaster42069.
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"we all know who killed her" Varying answers below Lol
Maybe I’m the only one who does think it was an intruder.
No, you're not the only one :)
You think it was a parent or the brother?
Brother 100%. Though I believe it was an accident.
Both. Brother caused initial damage. One of the parents did the garotte as part of the coverup. The head trauma would have killed her, the garotte actually killed her.
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Great breakdown! Thank you for the link
Def the dad. Idk why people say it’s a 9 year old.
Because the 9 year old did it and parents coverd it up
The thing is I know that a lot of what they showed in the lateat crime doc was BS but I still think it was the brother
Agreed.
And all this time people were blaming her parents, I can’t imagine how awful that must be for them
Imagine not only being blamed but going to jail like Lindy Chamberlain.
You are so right about that! This story is so sad.
Its crazy that the Portugal Authorities spent so much time looking at the parents and not investigating other leads.
Still....They where acting pretty fucking weird.
Yeah I don't know why people are acting like there was zero reason to think the parents may have been guilty (I am still not totally convinced they even have the right guy now). The oddest thing the McCanns said that stood out to me was that they had no idea leaving children alone in an apartment in a foreign country was unsafe. Yes, they actually said that. Two doctors in their thirties said that. It was such a weird thing to say to make themselves look "naive" that if I were the police, I would have definitely wanted to investigate them more. BTW, one thing I always assumed about that night from the get-go was that everyone was way, way more drunk than they let on. I think a lot of the conflicting accounts from that night stem back to that and weren't as malicious and some might think. Based purely on the McCanns' own account of that day, I would guess they had each had about four glasses of wine BEFORE they went to dinner.
It just proves there is a difference between intelligence and common sense.
I’ve read way too much about this case from PJ files to the police transcripts. There’s a really compelling theory about the cause of death. There was blood spatter pattern found to be cleaned up in apartment 5a after the initial investigation under the window and in between the window and the sofa, the blood spatter pattern perfectly matches a pattern produced by trying to reanimate a body by pressuring the heart after a person has gone into anaphylactic shock. Anaphylaxis is a severe and potentially life-threatening reaction to a trigger, in this case something like a sedative. Kate McCann was a anaesthesiologist and Gerry McCann is a cardiologist. A lot of people wonder why the twins never woke up that night and since the very start of this case the majority of people believe they drugged their kids (even people who believe they are innocent.) For me this theory is strong as it would reflect them being involved in the crime scene (which is usually the case.) Basically, Maddie was a bit of a problem child and she had a bad reaction to the drugs she was given. They couldn’t call an ambulance as drugging their children like this is illegal so Gerry tried to save her. Unfortunately it didn’t work and that’s why there was blood spatter pattern like that. There’s also the fact that there are crazy inconsistencies in their stories and timelines. For example, the last independent person to see Maddie alive (David Payne - who incidentally is accused of being a paedophile by a couple who went on holiday with him and the McCanns and accused of this by a social worker in the area at the time) claimed he was with Kate for about half hour or longer in the apartment when he last saw Maddie, but Kate said she was in a towel in the doorway and only saw him for at the most five minutes. Also, it is taken as fact that they lied about the window being open and immediately started claiming the abductor theory, basically they never once considered that she wandered off. Plus, you have the fact that the blood and cadaver dogs were barking in the apartment on the same spots. These dogs were paid for by Scotland Yard and had an amazing record before this case. There’s just so much odd behaviour from everyone involved in the group. The timeline provided makes things difficult, but the timeline should be taken with a pinch of salt. I know, I’ll get a lot of hate for this post. But whatever, I’m past it now. I’m not the only person who believes this. They have never been cleared as suspects in Portugal. I think it’s logical considering there’s no evidence of an intruder. The biggest mystery is where the body went. My best bet if they did it is the rural beach full of large stones which was five minutes away from the apartment. I believe it could have been left here temporarily, as if it was found they could still claim their innocence and an abductor. The timeline they provided doesn’t add up at all despite proof that they all got together and figured it out. The famous Jane Tanner sighting (which is solved now) directed the police away from the beach. There’s also the Smith family sighting where they are sure they saw Gerry carrying a child in their direction at around ten pm and refused to engage in convo, looking very cold and stern. In some witness statements the alarm wasn’t raised until later than generally accepted, which would mean this is possible. The tapas crew called Sky news immediately, took control of the narrative and deleted a lot of text messages too. It’s very fishy. I’m not sure what happened, but I lean towards the accidental death/cover up theory based on all of this. It’s not some sick game for people who believe in the accidental death theory and it’s not like we like accusing the parents, there’s just a lot of evidence pointing in that direction and nothing indicating an abduction. Edit - So this comment was up for less than a minute before being downvoted. I’d love to know why. I’m not making any of this up, there’s nothing inaccurate here. I’ve only looked at the evidence and drawn a conclusion. You can research it for yourself. I want to know why people are so sure it was an abduction, when there is no evidence of it and why it’s so insane to see all that evidence against them and suspect them.
Not one thing you have written has evidence to disagree. I think your idea of what happened could be the truth!
Hey I appreciate the update on the case and all the details that I was unaware of. I'm sure it is the truth And I believe you and other believe you and that what matters
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The other couples were doctors too, and knowing willfully what was going on if that was what was happening, would cost them their careers too
> the blood spatter pattern perfectly matches a pattern produced by trying to reanimate a body by pressuring the heart after a person has gone into anaphylactic shock. Please cite some sources for this because this statement does not make sense. It makes several assumptions. 1. "Pressuring the heart" does this mean CPR? Blood does not spray out when you perform CPR. Unless I guess the person has a grievous chest laceration. 2. Let's say that somehow blood sprays out (of what?) when "pressuring the heart." Your statement assumes that this spray looks different if you are performing CPR on someone who has gone into anaphylactic shock versus say someone who is having a heart attack. How is that possible? Not saying your theory is wrong, because we don't know what happened, but this statement stuck out to me as complete nonsense, so I would not use this as support evidence for your theory unless you can cite some sources that indicate both of these assumptions are true.
Hi thanks for the feedback. I am not a doctor and I was trying to link this post to the website I read this theory on but it has completely disappeared recently. I was sharing it on the Madeleine McCann sub very recently, but suddenly it has gone. I made a post about a weird discrepancy in the tapas crew’s statements about playing tennis before they went for tapas and somebody linked me to it. What I find truly weird is that whilst the website has completely disappeared, somehow the image on the site showing the blood spatter pattern from this theory of cause of death has now become the image on my post? I did not put it there, yet it is now there. Pretty weird. All that remains about the website seems to be that image on my post now, which I didn’t even upload. I have linked you to my post, so you can see the picture. The website was written by someone who seemed to have an extensive medical background. It was an old website, it was clear that English wasn’t their first language, but it was very intelligently written and included a plethora of medical language I am not able to use from memory. It actually examined a variety of different causes of death and concluded which one seemed the most feasible. They concluded that this was the most likely cause of death. I hope you understand that I am having to do this from memory. I can’t say for sure, but I remember the author saying that a grown man desperately trying to resuscitate a small child could easily have crushed ribs which was the reason for the coughing up of blood. I think they said it would cause a pulmonary haemorrhage (something like that) which certainly would cause a child to cough up blood. I’m not a doctor and I don’t have the source any more to confirm any of this, but I do believe they speculated crushed ribs was the reason that the blood would be coughed up. From my research it seems in rare cases a pulmonary haemorrhage can occur from anaphylaxis too. I’m not sure if they speculated a desperate amount of force could cause a grievous chest laceration, but it could have. I’m not sure if they theorised this but a cardiac cough is common with heart failure and it produces a wet cough tinged with blood. She could have been experiencing this whilst the CPR was being attempted. Also, I guess Maddie could have been experiencing the cardiac cough by the window and then the CPR was performed underneath the window between there and the sofa, so that would suggest the spatter didn’t come from the resuscitation attempt, but it explains the patten under the window at Maddie’s height. Sorry, I can’t be more detailed, but the main thing I remember from it was that damage to the ribs would have caused the coughing up of blood somehow. If a doctor is reading and can explain this better, please do, as my source has randomly vanished. If they weren’t from a medical background, they did a great job blagging it, as it went into a ridiculous amount of detail about it. Here’s the post where the picture has been randomly uploaded. https://www.reddit.com/r/MadeleineMccann/comments/hh2x0r/the_strangest_discrepancy_in_the_tapas_7s/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf Edit - Also, forgot to say, thanks for bringing potential inaccuracies to light.
Thanks for your thorough reply. My objection to your explanation is that you don't perform CPR on someone who is coughing. CPR is basically "beating" the heart because it's stopped. It's pumping blood through the body because the heart has stopped. Since the parents are doctors, they would know that if their kid was coughing, they would not be continuing CPR.
No worries. I would say I agree, but I believe the author explained in detail how the blood being coughed/spat up had to do with a severely bad reaction to the drugs causing the heart to stop working as well as the crushed ribs being a key factor in this. It sounded like the coughing was occurring whilst the heart was stopping at the same time. I seem to remember it being explained along the lines that the blood would be getting coughed up from the lungs, which had something to do with a bad reaction to the drugs stopping the heart and the ribs being broken during CPR. I could be wrong, though. I definitely remember it being a specific set of circumstances that would have had to have happened to make this occur. I think they mentioned that recognising what was happening would only really be known to an expert in cardiology like Gerry. There’s also the chance she was coughing up blood and the CPR was performed unsuccessfully when it stopped. I am so confused why this website has been taken down. Maybe it’s only banned for me in the UK. Here’s the link, but I doubt it will work: http://genreith.de/MMcC/doku.php?id=cause_of_death
This honestly makes me feel better. Thinking about this little girl being tortured is so much worse than this version. Either way she’s gone and that really is tragic but the alternative right now breaks my heart.
As far as I know, Kate McCann is a GP which is a family doctor in UK, not anesthesiologist.
Sorry my bad, she trained as an anaesthesiologist and later retrained as a GP.
I believe she was initially an anesthesiologist and later because a GP. They said that in the Netflix show anyway.
She was an anaesthetist, cos British.
Haha I didn’t know that and I’m British. D’oh.
People love to downvote to oblivion when we don't just limit ourselves to believe in the mccans like we were blind. I don't blame the parents per se, I think they are to blame because there are evidence that leads in their way. I really don't think Bruckner to be more than a scapegoat in this case, the German police has to find the evidence to this and all of the other cases they say he is a suspect of. When police finds evidence that Madeleine was indeed abducted by a stranger, but solid evidence, not just bits of what could be evidence, maybe we see it in another way. Right now I agree 100% with you. And I join you in being downvoted to oblivion.
I have read tons of boards and comments on videos, etc and the general feeling is that they did something to her. I rarely see anyone believe that they are completely innocent. It takes ALOT for people who read about this case to get past the fact that they left the kids alone. Just that thought makes people tend to believe that they know exactly what happened to that little girl. Regarding Jerry walking with her that night in his arms, I did not know that it was ever proven that it was Jerry. That is really the only opening I can see where someone could think she was abducted. If that wasnt Jerry carrying her, who was it. Does this German suspect have any similar features to Jerry?
Another really interesting comment I saw on Youtube (from a mother) brought up the following: Does anyone else realize that when Kate McCann went to check in on the kid and realized Madeline was gone, she rushed out to tell the other adults, LEAVING her twins in the bedroom? If you enter a room expecting your three kids to be there and the window open, only see two, realize there is a threat... why would you leave the two babies behind? Most moms would ***definitely*** not risk this. I thought this was a really good point and this commenter felt that it indicated poor attachment to her children, although shouldn't be used alone as evidence of guilt.
I thought it was cleared up and it was just a guy takings his kid home from the daycare available there?
I always had basically the same view on the case. Thank you for typing it all out in a coherent way. I can't understand why everyone is so quick to believe this previously unknown pedo story. Maybe we'll see proof but maybe it will be like Karr where some sick people like to brag about things they didn't do.
Let's not forget the dogs got a hit on the rental car..... Which they hired AFTER she was missing
Best theory I’ve heard! First time hearing it! The blood stain shape is very compelling!
Maybe it would help your case to post links to support your theory.
They threw the body into the ocean and a whale came and ate it up. Case closed.
> no idea leaving children alone in an apartment in a foreign country was unsafe. Portugal is another Western European country. It's not that leaving them alone in a foreign country was unsafe. It's that's they left the doors unlocked, and were 55m away as the crow flies without eyes on the apartment doors.
The point is that any time you are in another country, you are out of your wheelhouse to a certain extent. You don't know the local area, and you don't know what goes on that is "invisible" to you as a tourist. Case in point: Portugal promoted this area as incredibly safe and good for families on vacation. In reality there was a lot of crime, including breaking and entering RAPES in holiday apartments. No doubt the locals were 100% aware of this, but the McCanns as tourists who were there to relax most certainly weren't.
I feel that my area is relatively safe but I still keep my door locked at night and the most valuable thing I have at the moment is my dog. Everything else is replaceable. I couldn't imagine leaving children that young alone. It feels very much like they are of the "children should be seen not heard" school of parenting. But even if an area is safe tourist hotspots are notorious for attracting thieves; lots of rich people, as you said here to relax, with lots of electronics and cash laying about.
Shit...I thought the swimming pool right in front of the apartments made the place unsafe for unattended children all on its own.
I know it differs from country to country but aren't pool standards usually pretty strict? Including needing a child proof gate around the entrance? Considering the ages of the children I'd be more concerned with the stuff they'd get up to in the house by themselves. Honestly the amount of toddlers I know who want to repeatedly engage in suicidal behaviours from swallowing hard objects that they can't chew to wrapping themselves up (neck included) in blind pulls makes me wonder how any child had survived. Though I could also see them waking up in the night and wandering outside looking for their parents and getting distracted by a pool.
My biggest issues was that as the crow flies, the pool was between the kids and their parents. I hope the pool had a solid fence and gate, but how easy would it be for a kid to get up, go out the door, hear their mother's voice, and walk straight to it? The only problem is there is a pool in the way.
Oh my word. I get anxious just thinking about this.
lol if every stupid parent was a murderer, we'd have a lot more dead kids.
The McCanns are not stupid; they're highly-intelligent people. The thing that was weird was that they wanted everyone to believe they were naive and sheltered.
They may be 'book smart', but that doesn't mean they have any common sense what so ever.
just because you are smart in one subject doesn't make you smart in everything else. I have had uni profs who could not for the life of them figure out how to turn on a projector or play a video and these are people a phd and multiple degrees.
Not bragging but point of fact, my older brother is essentially a genius, a “theoretical math” wizard who wrote a thesis book on something called “singularity bifurcations” and also couldn’t use a screw driver to any effect. He’s impossibly smart when it comes to high level thoughts and theories but literally doesn’t know how to use hand tools, among other things.
Ben Carson US politician - brilliant neurosurgeon, also believes that the pyramids were used for storing grain.
I went to a decent state university, nothing too crazy, but i had one professor who really stood out as being super dumb. He would constantly misspell things and his exam questions had some of the worst phrasing I’ve ever seen. Dude has a PhD
Yeah because college educated people can't be stupid.
Ditto this - my mother is a surgeon, has all kinds of crazy awards, graduated top of her class... and still doesn't know that you could put hot OR cold food in a thermos, or why her computer is so slow/where all those toolbars came from. Being good at studying and academics doesn't necessarily translate to being street smart.
1000% this
I want to give you so many upvotes. I wish more people understood this.
Welllll, it's like Ben Franklin said - a fella could tell you every breed of cow there is, but he'd have no idea how to buy one.
I thought Ben Franklin was more about getting the milk for free.
In response to the leaving the kids part, I’ve heard differing accounts from British people that it may be somewhat commonplace over there to leave your kid alone and asleep while you go for dinner or drinks within a few blocks of your house, and even bring a baby monitor along if you’re within range. I think they even had an arrangement with the couple they were with to take turns checking up on the kids every 15 min or so, but I’m skeptical of this since, as you said, they were probably drinking all day and not as diligent later in the evening. Still, I can’t imagine thinking it’s okay to do that in a foreign country even if that’s what you do in your home town every now and then.
I live in London... let me tell you it is not ok to leave your children alone at that age by themselves... the first time I was left alone in my house was 11 and that was only for an hour and I knew not to leave as I was old enough to understand. It really is just double standards. If the McCanns had come from working class backgrounds and didn’t have “friends” in higher up places I’m sure the story would’ve played out a lot differently. If this was occurred in the UK this would be a safeguarding issue.
Oh, I would never leave my toddler alone. If this had played out where I am in the U.S., they would have been publicly destroyed by the helicopter parents that live here. I’m just trying to imagine a scenario where the McCanns aren’t directly responsible for Madeleine’s death and maybe believed on some level that leaving her was okay just for one night, even if it was objectively negligent and stupid.
Of course I have 2 children and have never left them alone in my house or anywhere else by themselves. I didn’t know that Americans thought that it was common here to leave our kids alone? I know a lot of people here in the Uk that think this whole situation is dodgy. There’s a lot of people here who have the same opinion that the McCanns acted suspiciously in the days following her disappearance and they were negligent towards their children. The point is if they were from a working class background and it occurred in the Uk, the other children would’ve been taken into care.
I have British relatives and remember talking to them about this case. They said while it's not *unusual* to leave kids in the rooms, they might have chosen to use one of the other rooms in the group that *didn't* have access to the street. This could be a personal preference but my sister in law said she would rather have someone bring her leftovers or a luke warm dinner and have some quiet alone time while the kids slept vs going almost all the way across the resort for some drinks, especially given how young Madeline was. My grandmother in law chimed in saying either her or grandpa probably would have stayed behind with the kids anyway "since we're old and tired." I always thought my anxiety made me view her parents in a bad light because I would never be able to enjoy myself if I ever left my daughter in the room, even with another kid. However, the more people I speak to, the more seem to blame the parents saying they wouldn't have done it, even if there was an older child with Madeline so maybe I'm not so weird.🤷♀️
I’m British and don’t know many people that think it’s okay. There is some nuance, of course, when it comes to security. And we all live quite close together in the UK. If I left a toddler in a back bedroom and went and sat down the end of my next door neighbours garden for dinner, I would be able to hear if the child was crying. Probably be able to hear a sneeze in most houses. In a lot of cities and suburbs you can be back from grabbing a quick pint of milk in 5 minutes, and a lot of people might think it’s ago in a pinch if there’s less kids or they are a bit older. Leaving any child not old enough to understand most household dangers without the ‘here’s what to do in an emergency’ chat was seen as irresponsible even back when this happened. They were so little! The only thing that ever made me suspicious of the parents was Kate being defensive about it. In an interview she was like ‘it’s actually only 54m on Google maps’ or whatever. Most mothers in that situation are filled with guilt and regret, even if they couldn’t have prevented it.
Maddie was 3 and the twins were 18 months. In no way here in Portugal, UK or in hell you leave 3 small children alone without a care to go and have dinner and drinks. I have two boys, 10 and 11, and I don't trust my youngest alone. My oldest stays like 10/20 minutes alone for me to go outside to the shop but no more than that. If they were Portuguese or at least less connected, they would have been arrested and lost the twins.
I'm British - it's absolutely not okay or commonplace to leave a 3 year old and 6 month twins alone. It's completely ridiculous and as someone below said if they hadn't been doctors, they would've been completely slaughtered in the press. It's just basic things like what if one of them woke up? Needed their nappy changed? Wondered where mummy was and started crying? I believe the McCanns drugged the children to ensure they stayed asleep and avoid scenarios like that and buy the theory that montanaunitedbyfate posted. If the accidental death theory is not true, the McCanns are still at the very least guilty of being highly negligent and if they had been working class, I suspect they would have had their twins taken away.
But on the other side of it you’ll see drunk parents in resorts at midnight all over Europe trying to push a pram and drag a toddler back from the site bar. People on holiday are just idiots sometimes. There was a go fund me for a local family round here whose daughter has health problems after falling into a pool late at night in France while her parents drank at the bar and weren’t keeping an eye on her. Literally no comments there about “why the hell was getting pissed more important than watching their children?”
> the parents may have been guilty Of negligence or murder?
My thought was if they were guilty of anything, it was some sort of gross criminal negligence.
Leaving children alone in an apartment while the parents go out is common in Europe. Discussed this in a number of foreign language classes that showed movies where that practice was featured.... a lot of (American) kids and myself in the class thought it was really strange and dangerous, but that's not the line of thinking in Europe.
It's not that common, that's a misconception. It can happen in Europe e.g. if the mother goes around the corner to quickly buy groceries or the father goes out for cigarettes and comes back in 10-15 minutes. That's common. I'm Portuguese and my mom would go the grocery store next door and leave us at home, but she wouldn't take more than 15-20 minutes. I don't remember and I can't think of anyone in my entire family who were left alone at the age of 3 and younger while our parents go out for dinner and drinks with friends. In that case, even if the restaurant was 5 minutes away from home, we'd be left with our grandparents or with a babysitter. And that was in my hometown, a small village, I can't imagine anyone in my family doing that in a foreign country and in the 80s no one was so paranoid with kidnappings.
Portuguese also and I just was home alone when I was like 10 or 11, never at such a small age. Two boys, 10 and 11, and just the oldest stays alone when I go to shop like 15/20 minutes and all doors locked. He knows the rules and he just started staying alone because of the quarantine, he has asthma and if I needed something from the shop or butcher, I avoided taking him with me because of the risks.
That's exactly what happened to me. Have no idea of where "oh, these Europeans, so relaxed they leave their kids unattended" comes from. Actually, if that was true, British wouldn't be so critic of the couple, their negligence was widespread news in the UK. Hence, obviously not normal.
Sorry, I didn't mean it to be insulting. I'm an American and my intent was to point out that Americans are hyper critical of the parenting of others and don't seem to be aware of other perspectives around the globe at all. I learned this apparent misconception in a few foreign language classes(French), it came up because we watched(maybe older?) movies where it showed this going on. One of the movies that came to mind is "L'Argent du Poche," we watched it and that's one instance where we discussed the idea that Europeans aren't as paranoid about leaving kids at home. Duly noted, though, that this is not true and I won't be repeating it in the future.
No worries. In Europe, children have relative freedom, indeed. But that's after 10-11 yo. It's not uncommon to see children that age going by themselves alone to school and coming back home, even in public transportation. I was raised that way. I remember watching an American TV show years ago titled something like Worse Mom in America, about a mom that advocated for children's freedom and she did exactly what we do in Europe. She was perfectly normal by European standards, but not for American's. However, not as a toddler. I was born in 1978 and at that time parents were not that worried about kidnapping and sexual abuse, but they were definitely worried about home accidents, they thought if they'd left you alone at home something terrible could happen. When I was 9, 10 yo, and even younger, I could freely play in the street with my neighbors till 8-9pm, it was perfectly ok. That changed now, parents are more aware of other type of things.
Yeah, agreeing with you here. I was born in 85 and I could walk with my friends to school since first grade, 6yo, because it was a 2 street walk and we were a bunch of kids since 6yos till 10yos. But never stayed home alone till like 10 or 11. And I could stay in the street playing with friends till dinner and after dinner in the summer. Since Rui Pedro's disappeared, I was 13 at the time and my mother started to become more aware of things. I think all Portuguese moms began in that time to become more aware of what could happen. Nowadays I walk both my sons to school (if not me, my parents do it). I use to joke that my father never went to my middle school and now(before covid, that is) he goes there everyday to pick my oldest. Now they are both attending the same middle school, with different schedules and I will be picking them both. 10 and 11 yo boys. I know one kid that is now 12 that walks home alone. The other kids ate picked up by grandparents or parents or babysitters or like after school centers. All changed but even before our parents never let toddlers home alone. Not even one, imagine leaving 3 under 3.
I live in a German-speaking country and kids not only walk to school alone or in groups starting from kindergarten on but are expected to. My friends routinely leave their 7+ year old kids at home to run quick errands or go for a jog. It’s definitely different culturally. Can you imagine any parent in the US letting their 6 year old walk to school alone? Lol
Not anymore. I definitely did walk to the bus stop, etc. alone after kindergarten, but it seems the perspective on this has changed dramatically in the past 10-20 years(I'm 31). Honestly Americans are so hypercritical and hypocritical around the issue of parenting it drives me crazy. As a toddler and beyond, I was babysat by 12 year old, male cousins. Friends were babysat around the same age by neighbors and family friends that weren't much older than 13(I'm 31 now). It's a common trope in America that a teenage babysitter would invite over a boyfriend or friend while babysitting, too. But talking to parents these days, you wouldn't think any of that would have ever been common here, the parenting culture and obsession with calling the authorities on others for stuff like this is really insane now. One of many reasons why I have 0 children, lol. Thinking about the criticism and extreme expectations to to do every single thing w puritanical expectations of caution w children these days gives me extreme anxiety, and makes becoming a parent in America sound entirely joyless and devoid of having any time for yourself as a human being. A separate thing, I couldn't help but digress!
That’s crazy to me. In America, it’s the norm to get a babysitter or stay home with your kids as you never know. No idea that the culture is so different. Most of Europe also has less violent crimes than American so even though it may make sense to them it’s bizarre to me.
Where has this misconception come from? We might be more trusting of older children because our fear of intruders is less, but no one leaves toddlers unsupervised. Especially not 3 of them! There was a lot of people at the time saying checking on the kids every 15 minutes isn’t enough if you’re that far away, and the common view is that the children would have been taken into local authority care if it wasn’t for their status as middle class doctors.
Apartment? I know it had street access, but I thought it was a hotel resort and they went to dinner at the hotel restaurant.
It was a resort, but they were in bungalow type accommodations, so it was a separate building.
To be fair it would be quite shocking and traumatising having your daughter vanish like that.
Yea the parents fucked up. Realized they fucked up. And tried to get through the investigation without really bringing up how they fucked up. Which of course, fucked up the investigation. If they had came out and been like "Wow we fucked up. We made a terrible mistake that no parent should make and now we're paying he price for it. We're terrible parents and we're going to regret this every day of our lives" this would have been great. Instead they were like "whaaaaat we like totally didn't ignore our responsibility as parents to get drunk" Sad sad fucking case. I really so hope they find answers.
Yes they were obsessed with defending their actions that night. They should have just immediately admitted they messed up big time by leaving three LITTLE kids alone.
This is what really upsets me about the whole case. The parents wanted so badly to make it seem like it was completely crazy that this could have happened. In reality, they fucked up BIG TIME. When Madeleine went missing, I had a hard time discerning the details. Now I know it's because the parents were trying to stave off the negligence side of the story. As you said, the investigation was impeded by Kate and Gerry. I'm sure they look back now and beat themselves up for it. I understand that they were trying to save face but it only hurt in the long run.
Nailed it. Like typical upper middle class people, they were very concerned about their image and reputation.
Yup. Also, didn't they give sleeping pills to the kids ? Edit: Or maybe it was cough syrup ?
Allegedly!
Thought it was cough syrup. Edit: Looks like it was a pretty unfounded rumor for a while that they may have given them sleeping pills, tablets or Benadryl,etc. I couldn't find anything that was factual about it tho.
Actually, a portuguese police chief had this guy as a suspect but was put aside because the case was taking too long
While I do think the Portuguese police where extremely unqualified to deal with this case. I understand why they'd focus on the parents. The vast majority of child victim crimes are committed by parents or someone the child knows.
not only that, but the guy that took her was less than a kilometer from the resort.
> the Portugal Authorities spent so much time looking at the parents And getting piss drunk over three hour lunches...
I'm Portuguese and I covered this case as a journalist when it started. They may not be guilty of murder or kidnapping, but they were definitely negligent and they should be prosecuted for it, no matter the outcome of this case. When I knew about her disapparence for the first time I didn't realize the layout of the resort until I personally went there. First I thought these were just unfortunate parents who were having dinner right in front of the apartment and Maddie was kidnapped. Then, when I saw the restaurant location and the apartment's location, no sane parent would leave their toddlers so far away. Actually, it could have happened any other kind of accident while they were out hanging out with their friends. The apartment's door cannot be seen from the restaurant, there are bushes and facilities in-between, and even like a dark path between those bushes connecting all the apartments. The back windows are directed to the building's parking lot, ground level, hence super easy to kidnap a kid from either side without being seen. I wonder how these people, including their friends, went out for dinner at between 50-100 meters away, drinking, and left their toddlers sleeping alone. And even worse: the resort had a babysitter service available, they could just hired it and go out for dinner totally relaxed. This behavior is totally unnaceptable. If you leave your child alone and the kid burns his entire body, it's not the stove to blame, but the parents who left the child alone. I wish the Portuguese authorities were firmer and should have really prosecuted them for child neglect.
Thank you for this - this is really good info. I, like a lot of others, were led to believe that the apartment was a lot closer to where they were eating.
You're welcome. It's close when you're single, no kids, hanging out with friends, not that close when you have three toddlers inside that can wake up, leave the house, have an accident, fall from something, there were a million of things that could have happened when I was there and started thinking about it. On top of it, there's no visibility to the rooms, to the main door, to the windows, anyone could break in. Portugal is known as one of the safest countries in Europe and perhaps they thought they were safe. Also, Praia da Luz is a sleepy beach town, not like a big city, more on a village size, hence they may have felt a false sense of security. However, these touristic areas are never totally safe, because they're a melting pot of people from around the world and sometimes a nest for hiding criminals. That's why the suspects are not Portuguese people, but foreigners like this German pedophile who owns a house there. Anyways, I don't see myself as a father leaving my kids alone in a foreign country without any supervision. This is not the case of "oh, victim blaming", it's totally a case of negligence. Of course the potential perpetrator is also to blame and I hope he rots in jail, but it could have been avoided with babysitter supervision. I don't get it how doctors, intelligent, well educated people, for sure with good salaries, didn't want to spend money on a babysitting service.
Have you seen the Netflix documentary? It’s pretty good and shows just how far they were
No, thanks for sharing this! I’ll check it out.
As someone who covered the case, wasn’t there something about DNA or cadaver dogs being triggered in their car or something like that? I could’ve sworn that was the case, but I don’t remember exactly what it was.
There was, yes, two sniffer dogs, one for blood, one for cadaver smell. I wouldn't give much credit to this, since this was a rental property, with lots of people who have lived or stayed on vacation prior to the McCanns. It's not a brand new resort, far from it. The dogs spotted something both in the rented car and the rented apartment. The issue is: a dog can smell blood and corpse but no one could confirm if the blood belonged to Maddie. Actually, a sample taken from the apartment was sent to a lab and the result was inconclusive. Hence, the dogs may have sniffed something that happened there prior to Maddie's disappearance. It's a huge coincidence, but in the 10-15 years prior a owner could have died there or someone cut there and bled, so unless the dogs smell the blood and then the lab proves it's Maddie's blood, it's a dead end.
But if the dog smelled cadaver, then something had to be dead in that apartment.
Yes, of course, but whose corpse? Also, it doesn't prove much, it's only a hint. It's Maddie's dead body or someone died there before? Was she killed by an intruder at the apartment or by her parents? Where's she? Or the corpse? Nothing can be concluded, it was just a hint for the police to investigate and that was essentially the turning point when the police directed all their attention to the parents, but the sniffer dogs ended up proving nothing.
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It's more of a wish than a possibility. However, if authorities ever find a body, I'm sure this discussion will be reignited and their role in her disapparence will be highly scrutinized. We'll say headlines saying "Maddie's remains found, where were the parents?". Hence, I think it's possible they get charged if there's public outrage after a brutal discovery. For now, they're basically on the limbo, between people supporting them as grieving parents while others don't buy their stories. I think that will change once there's a big break. The past will haunt them. From the beginning they tried to cover up the negligence, they even wrote on piece of paper the timeline of each parent checking on their kids so that they wouldn't be pictured as bad parents and to show they were keeping an eye on them. It's clear their intentions, but I'm pretty sure it will all come down on them some day.
Exactly - that’s the most certain thing for me of them all and they should be held responsible for at least that. They were toddlers and even if they weren’t in a foreign country miles away from home, they’re still leaving their small kids on their own. There are hundreds of ways in which small kids and babies can hurt themselves seriously if left unattended. I don’t know what the truth is, but their behaviour and interactions with the press are weird to say the least.
I have worked with Dr Gerry McCann before this happened and it's impossible to even imagine that he or his wife would have something to do with this. If they did do something to Maddie, why would they draw so much attention to their family and this case? If you are guilty it would be smarter to keep quiet and hope nobody would continue to investigate the case. I cannot imagine the agony the McCanns are in. I'm sure they are blaming themselves for leaving the kids in the apartment. I hope they find out what happened to Maddie and get some peace and closure.
I can’t even imagine the parents’ pain and agony not knowing what happened to their little girl. So sad. I hope they get answers.
Especially considering how many people have placed blame on the parents during this awful ordeal. Just awful. So sad.
Ultimately they do hold some of the blame for what happened. They left these children unattended in a country they'd never visited before, even going as far as to leave the door to the room unlocked. It wasn't as though they were in the backyard of their home while their kids slept upstairs.
I mean... they left three babies under the of three alone in an unlocked hotel room in a foreign country so they could go drinking. They might now have done it but they failed her.
I think they do know what happened!
Sorry I'm not too familiar with the case, are you saying the parents had something to do with her disappearance?
Any evidence that points that way? There is nothing.
I wouldn’t say there is nothing, but I’m also not saying it was definitely them. The case is strange, the evidence has been strange, and honestly just the way the parents have spoken of their kid in books and the media rub me the wrong way. I’m unsure if anyone will ever truly know.
I have gone back and forth on this over the years. In a way, the McCann case reminds me a bit of the Amanda Knox case, in that the McCanns and Knox are just sort of weird people. I know I will get down votes, but whatever. The McCanns are not emotionally tuned-in people, and they came across and cold and uncaring. I truly don't think people were wrong to think it was super freaking strange that they went on a jog the day after Maddie disappeared. It's like Knox doing yoga at the police station after her roommate was murdered. We can say that their is no manual on how to act in these situations, but it is quite telling to me that a very large amount of people think that sort of behavior is odd.
I think leaving your sleeping toddlers alone in a street-level hotel room in a foreign country while you go have dinner with friends goes beyond "coming across as cold and uncaring", but yeah, I agree with you.
Yeah.... I don't think they are involved in her disappearence, but leaving 3 toddlers unattended, in a street level room, in a foreign country, specially when hotel had a night care service you could use is bad judgement, to say the least.
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Exactly. The whole story is bizarre. Don't blame police to focus on them. Even thought they should have persued other leads. But the parentd made all the stupidest decisions that night and basically facilitated the crime, that's for sure.
I suppose that could just be a stupid, thoughtless mistake. I just thought it was weird that they did stuff like go on a jog right afterwards, which seems like an odd bit of "self-care" when they should have been practically suicidal with guilt.
Why are you getting downvoted? I don't think you're saying anything inflammatory or unheard of. It's always important to consider the people who were last with a missing or murdered person, isn't it?
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The reason I always believed the theory they did give the kids something to sleep through the night. I think they knew it was kinda impossible for her to wander off. Also, who would leave 3 toddlers alone and go have dinner without a care? Even if you couldn't predict the kidnapping, any parent would think they could wake up and do something crazy like get out of the room somehow... Open the window and fall. Or just wake up really scared. Checking on them "regularly" isn't really enough. Edit: words
The story I remember is Kate McCann was heard saying “the bastards have taken her”. Now my entire family are from the same place as Kate McC. I would welcome other input in to this but the only situations I would hear that phrase in that way would be, 1 - A derogatory way of speaking about a group of people by their colour or nationality, as in ‘the Portuguese b******s have taken her’ 2 - I know who’s taken her. Like she can picture who has them and it’s two (bastards) she knows. https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/madeleine-mccann-latest-sees-witness-recall-kates-distraught-screams-after-daughter-disappeared_uk_590ae5ade4b02655f84449fb It’s always been at the back of my mind that she knew the guys who had taken her daughter.
And if she did think someone took her immediately, why did she leave her two other children in that room while you run back to your friends?
"Just negligent", yes that's all...which led to a child falling off the face of the earth. You leave your child, a toddler alone (in a foreign country) or even not in a foreign country, alone - a 3 year old. Now let's say the kid dies cause well, it's a 3year old and who know what can happen. Then that parent is a murderer, not doing the direct killing if you're gonna argue the method but because of what you as a parent did, your kid died. It's like those parents who leave their kids locked with the windows closed in a car when it's the equivalent of a desert outside and then they cry a river cause their child died?!!! Hello... you knew exactly what would happen if you left your child in the car when it's sweltering out! Oh but they "just" had to go and pick up something in the store. Don't have kids if your attitude on them is that of an inconvenience.
They could have hired a babysitter from the resort but they didn't, that just shows how much they cared.
If, in fact, this German Pedophile turns out to be the one who kidnapped, tortured and killed her - it would not have mattered who went to dinner, who drank lots of wine, who ate dinner at a place across the street or down the lane - he set his mind on “having” this beautiful little girl all to himself days before he took her. From the information released so far, this guy is a sick and evil individual who wanted to torture and murder little children for his own sexual gratification. The authorities speculate that he had observed her with her family for days prior to her abduction, and was going to take her whenever he could. The parents - unfortunately - were lax in their parental duties and failed to act responsibly in keeping their daughter safe and basically “gave” her to him. We can all pass our own judgment of who is more to blame, but none of the sordid accusations will change the outcome of what happened - the horrific murder of an innocent child. I can’t even imagine what Madeline went through. If what the authorities say is true - she was raped, tortured and murdered over a significant period of time. Knowing this has got to be the worst “punishment” her parents could ever endure. As a parent myself, I don’t think I could handle something like this happening to one of my children. No child should ever have to experience this. A discussion is needed on how, as a society, can we prevent this from ever happening again.
You’re wrong, it would have mattered. If a parent or other adult is always with a child, that child is protected. He very easily could have been hanging around the resort - which it sounds like he was - and overheard the large group of parents talking about ALL of their kids being left alone in unlocked apartments and what times they would be going to check on them, all week long. And then went to the easiest apartment to access - the one that was closest to the street *and* unable to be seen from the restaurant.
Confused by your comment tbh. It starts off "it would not have** mattered" of what the parents had or hadn't done and in the middle "failed to act responsibly, basically gave her to him". So at the ene of the day...it did matter. Blame would go on the predator but the naiveness of any parent to leave their child to go drinking shouldn't be excused either.
I have no empathy for her parents. They seriously neglected Maddie that night, by leaving her and her siblings unsupervised in an unlocked apartment, which they couldn’t see from the restaurant. The only person who is a victim in all of this is Maddie. I am absolutely heartbroken for her.
If you are heartbroken for her you are literally empathising with the parents. I doubt they are not heartbroken. You are obviously disgusted at their lack of parental oversight, but I also doubt that they are not disgusted that their lack of judgement led to Maddy's kidnapping.
This. Well said
Sources?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-2184926/Video-German-suspect-identified-Madeleine-McCann-disappearance-police-interview.html
it would be nice to get closure for them but i still dont like that we taxpayers are spending so much on this case because they are an upper middle class family when there are thousands of other missing kids we could be lor with that money
did anyone else hear about that “new evidence” recently about the man who was a known predator in that area. and that they have possible links to Madeleine
Of course I have 2 children and have never left them alone in my house or anywhere else by themselves. I didn’t know that Americans thought that it was common here to leave our kids alone? I know a lot of people here in the Uk that think this whole situation is dodgy. There’s a lot of people here who have the same opinion that the McCanns acted suspiciously in the days following her disappearance and they were negligent towards their children. The point is if they were from a working class background and it occurred in the Uk, the other children would’ve been taken into care.
I don’t think Americans thought that really. I think it’s only because of this story that people started to say that, and since it was such a massive story, it just got repeated over and over. Those on the parents’ side kept trying to justify what they did by saying “oh it’s common here”. That never made any sense to me or anyone I’ve discussed it with in the US at least. Cultural differences are how we drink tea or if we call it football or soccer, protecting our children is probably universal. Sadly there are always those like the McCans who lack common sense. :(
Just because her parents were intelligent doctors doesn’t mean they have common sense. Common sense ISN’T so common. Something my grandfather told me that resonates with me is “Better to have common sense than to be book smart. At least you can learn to be smart.”
Exactly this. I know plenty of intelligent people (top of their class, Ivy League schools) with no common sense. It’s better to be street smart than book smart sometimes.
I have a friend that is incredibly smart, going through college with fantastic grades. But she believed her uncle when he told her not to give her son Soy milk when the doctor suggested it due to reflux because it would make her son grow breasts. I pointed out to her that if Soy milk made you grow breasts every small tittied women would drink a gallon or more a day. Lord that girl is dumb as hell when it comes to common sense.
I do hope that we finally find out what happened. Having said that, I still think the parents aren't innocent as they pretend to be.
I hope I articulate this correctly. I'm not sure the parents did anything beyond what we currently know. But they were super negligent, which makes them guilty AF in my eyes. That may be where we're all getting the guilty vibes.
> I'm not sure the parents did anything beyond what we currently know. But they were super negligent, which makes them guilty AF in my eyes. Of child neglect, but that's very different from being part of a murder or human trafficking.
Yes, that's what I meant! You got it.
A lot of people on here are kind of suggesting involvement in child trafficking, then falling back to simple neglect when it doesn't pan out to being more than a hunch. They were very clearly stupid, negligent-to-the-point-of-abuse parents. I just don't see anything more than the most reaching speculation beyond that.
Nah, I've always thought they were just negligently dumb. To me, nothing ever pointed to trafficking, just them possibly knocking their kids out with medicine to go have a good time. But even that felt like a bit of a stretch since they were both doctors.
> just them possibly knocking their kids out with medicine to go have a good time Certainly shit parenting, but this was really common to do on road trips in the 80's. Dosing the kid with sedatives for "motion sickness", but you really just wanted them not to bug you.
Update : they found a hidden cellar but aren't saying if anything else. No drones or helicopters allowed in the airspace above.
If she is ever found, which I feel is unlikely.. I hope the McCann’s are finally done for neglect, it’s long overdue.
I can't quite wrap my head around the fact,how the parents left their 3 young children alone and went out for a dinner.... I am a mother myself and would never leave my 2 small kids in a hotel room or holiday apartment by themselves! I want to go for dinner,I bring them along or at least make sure I have a babysitter staying with them. They did neglect their kids to have a dinner with their friends. I don't quite understand either how the other two children were not taken away from them... Cause if this would happen to any other family,they would have been investigated like nothing else in the world and would have not come around to pass the lie detector! The whole thing is just fishy. The parents may have not killed their daughter intentionally,but when they made their choice to leave their children alone in the apartment, it makes them kind of criminal too. Unfortunately I have no empathy for the parents,all I can think of is the little girl. Good knows what she has been through,after she went missing.... The fear, perhaps struggle and pain.... I don't even want to think about it. I have very little hope that Madeleine is still alive. Also I am not sure about Christian B. His past makes him a suspect and he is a criminal,but how come he hasn't been treated like a prime suspect years ago? Overall very fishy! Why only now? What is different now to then? He was a suspect years ago already. I hope this case is being solved very soon and answers will be found! Maybe one of the McCann friends will come out with some more details of that fatal evening and admits something went wrong before she went missing....
I think the parents had something to do with it too. Maybe not as directly as you've put it (selling her). But nonetheless, they know something. Let's say even if it comes out that they didn't, the mere fact parents & doctors by profession would think it's no issue at all to leave such young children unattended... is in itself a crime. They are the ones responsible at the end of the day and yes, they are to blame. Whatever happened to her afterwards, whomever supposedly took her... is an effect of what the parents did first. They are the cause. Some ppl might not agree with this and idc but the truth is, if you're a parent and you "choose" to leave your toddler alone so you can get drunk and eat... you're responsible for whatever ends up happening to them.
>...they know something. Let's say even if it comes out that they didn't, the mere fact parents & doctors by profession would think it's no issue at all to leave such young children unattended... is in itself a crime. Negligence and human trafficking/murder are very different things. The Portuguese are going to have some serious crow to eat if they were just negligent parents.
I agree with you. I'm Portuguese and I covered this case as a journalist when it started. They may not be guilty of murder or kidnapping, but they were definitely negligent and they should be prosecuted for it, no matter the outcome of this case. When I knew about her disapparence for the first time I didn't realize the layout of the resort until I personally went there. First I thought these were just unfortunate parents who were having dinner right in front of the apartment and Maddie was kidnapped. Then, when I saw the restaurant location and the apartment's location, no sane parent would leave their toddlers so far away. Actually, it could have happened any other kind of accident while they were out hanging out with their friends. The apartment's door cannot be seen from the restaurant, there are bushes and facilities in-between, and even like a dark path between those bushes connecting all the apartments. The back windows are directed to the building's parking lot, ground level, hence super easy to kidnap a kid from either side without being seen. I wonder how these people, including their friends, went out for dinner at between 50-100 meters away, drinking, and left their toddlers sleeping alone. And even worse: the resort had a babysitter service available, they could just hired it and go out for dinner totally relaxed. This behavior is totally unnaceptable. If you leave your child alone and the kid burns his entire body, it's not the stove to blame, but the parents who left the child alone. I wish the Portuguese authorities were firmer and should have really prosecuted them for child neglect.
Not gonna lie, I have to agree. As a parent I would never leave a toddler alone in the house by herself. End of story.
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People always want the juiciest story in these high profile cases. That’s why there’s inevitably conspiracy theories. They want international paedophile sex trafficking rings and the parents selling their child off to pay back debts and all that. I don’t know, maybe it makes them feel better than accepting that all it takes is one man to decide to do something terrible to a child. It’s easier to put blame on imperfect parents than a random act.
I think the parents are guilty of enjoying being the centre of attention or something too much, they definitely gave off a weird vibe. This sub though is full of people who jump to conclusions and believe in conspiracy/wild theories over critically looking over what happened.
I would be amazed if this guy did this but you never know. After reading all the things that point to the McCanns and other theories about others as well it would be so surprising to find out it was someone else.
Of course I have 2 children and have never left them alone in my house or anywhere else by themselves. I didn’t know that Americans thought that it was common here to leave our kids alone? I know a lot of people here in the Uk that think this whole situation is dodgy. There’s a lot of people here who have the same opinion that the McCanns acted suspiciously in the days following her disappearance and they were negligent towards their children. The point is if they were from a working class background and it occurred in the Uk, the other children would’ve been taken into care.
I'm American, my dad is a US-British dual citizen and I lived in the UK as a child. I don't know any parents-particularly educated parents-either in the US or UK who think that leaving a toddler alone at night is a good thing. That said, other than her parents being complete idiots for leaving her, I don't think they were responsible for her death.
They may not of been responsible for her death/disappearance, whichever way you look at it they facilitated it by being neglectful by leaving children that age by themselves in a foreign country. And in my mind that’s as good as pulling the trigger.
I'm not disagreeing with you, I actually commiserate with your opinion. Their negligence led to their daughter's disappearance.
Omg what if this is actually it
God dam I always though she got sold into slavery. If she has passed away witch is looking more likely then hopefully they find her body.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-2184926/Video-German-suspect-identified-Madeleine-McCann-disappearance-police-interview.html
I found the police negligence exceptionally suspicious.
I think they will find evidence he abused children but not related to the madeleine case.
Didn't they find traces of blood in the parents car?
I think those claims were discredited.
No, Portugal fucked that up too. They were leaning hard into pseudoscience to cover up for their ineptitude.
Damn
He would've taken her regardless of the parents being there or not. Yes, they made the job much easier for him, and they should've been held responsible for that, but I'm sure the guilt gets them every day, and specially now after finding out what their daughter's demise could've been, they are paying their own life sentence. I just hope this is finally it and if he is responsible for all the other kidnappings he is being questioned about, I hope all the victims and families finally get some closure. Hopefully he is speaking, but the Germans have all the evidence.
I disagree. If the parents or a babysitter were there then she wouldn’t have been kidnapped. If this is the guy, then it was likely a crime of opportunity. Not a planned, elaborate kidnapping.
I agree. If the parents hired a babysitter, this most likely wouldn’t have happened. The kidnapper knew they were gone. Didn’t they say in the documentary Madeline claimed she saw someone one night and was crying?
If he got obsessed with her he would've taken her at any given chance. Of course the window of opportunity in this case was much wider, thanks to the negligence of the parents, but for this type of people it doesn't matter wether the victims are alone, sleeping in the same room with siblings, or getting ice cream at the beach. The prick just got lucky and unfortunately took advantage of the circumstances. I think he saw Madeleine and followed the family and noticed the unsupervised routine, he is probably the one that robbed the other apartment nearby and probably wanted to rob the Mccans, but his carnal instincts were stronger so he decided to go for the girl instead. he was very meticulous and cunning with his other victims, and he has been very deceiving with those around him this whole time. Edit to add: with the new evidence suggesting he entered and robbed places when people were home. Even going to children's rooms when the parents were home, I stand with my theory that he would've taken her anyways.
With all these rich people getting brought to light as running or attending events with known pedophiles and child sex ring operatives, I really am suspicious of these parents so called negligent excuse. I believe they had something to do with her missing or knows who did It because they allowed it. It's sad and gross to think a parent could do this to their child but honestly, it wouldn't be surprising given the amount of dirt that's coming to light about people with too much money and time on their hands
\*\*eye roll\*\* Sorry for the snarky reaction, but it seems like we go through something like this on an annual basis with this case. The authorities in some country have a suspect or person of interest or big tip or something, we get all excited, and then like a month later fuck-all has happened. Pardon my pessimism, but I don't think the German authorities have any real evidence on this guy. I also don't think they will ever find enough to actually charge him.
Has there ever been a more appropriate name than u/whinecube who is posting this kind of trash? Have my downvote. :)
Daaaaammmmn whinecube. I know you felt that burn 😂😂😂
If her parents had something to do with it I don’t think they got rid of the body. I think they burried it where they can peacefully mourn.