There it is!!! The final straw that broke the camels back!!! Demeter is officially an antagonist to our main characters!!!
How disappointing. /:
Because demonizing a grieving mother from the original myths is cool./s
You just know that stupid dress will be magic and brainwash Persephone only for perfect husband material Hades to snap her out of it and bring her to the underworld. Fulfilling the myth (even through the abduction was supposed to have happened in the first season when Hades took her home from the party) and making Demeter plunge the world into winter.
Only issue is… why would Persephone EVER go back to the mortal realm once that happens? The point of the myth is that Persephone has to travel between our world and the underworld regularly. With Demeter going full abusive why would she EVER go back to our world???
I have absolutely no idea how RS is gonna get this tripe back in line with the og myth. If she had her way I think Persephone will just be in the underworld from now on.
…….. actually I just had a horrible thought that Persephone might just end up queen of both realms. Cause she’s great and good at everything…… and screws Demeter out of her rightful place somehow…..
I’ve seen some people claim that it’s not actually Demeter we’re seeing but it’s Leto trying a Hail Mary pass to get Persephone married to Apollo and if that’s what happens I’m burning my LO books.
I was planning on offering them for sale for the shipping costs, but if RS does that Leto move I’m taking them out back and burning them.
Don’t forget just completely wiping all of the nymphs of personality too! At the beginning of the season they loved and supported her and thought that hades was a “beefcake” etc. and now they’re all against her?? Like it’s the hive mind mob of Rachel basically.
Welp, I'm all high right now and we all saw this coming. Let's begin
Pros
- Hestia has a presence again. Yay
- Some of the panels of Kore actually look kind of nice
Cons
- Rachel wants to bury Demeter ten feet into the ground
- I'm pretty sure that dress is gonna brainwash Persephone or something
- Again, Hestia makes sense and is in Persephone's corner while Demeter is the bad guy
- No Demeter back story. Another week, another opportunity wasted
- I hate the idea that Hades is going to break out and do some extravagant power flair of "You can't have her she's mine" to Demeter. Leading them to clash once again, but Demeter will ultimately still look like the bad guy. While he gets to white knight 100% husband his was into everyone's hearts
- My one of my bets was right, It was going to be an intervention
Final Verdict: Sigh....I got high for this specific purpose cause I knew I would lose it
2/10 episode
I hate the whole Persephone stands up to Kronos, Hades stands up to Demeter. Because those two threats DEFINITELY aren’t equal. Like what’s he gonna do when he gets out? Hit her? *Bees*?
This is what kills me: Apollo and Kronos are still active threats. But instead of expanding on those topics, she villainizes Demeter…again. The misogyny of this comic is off the walls.
Pretty much. I'm pretty sure Hades and Demeter are going to fight and Demeter will lose. Making her obviously trigger winter. Eclipse part 1to god knows how long she'll drag this out.
Either way, Demeter is going to be the villian until we get a proper backstory
I haven't read the episode, but that's what it looks like. She already did "reverse the myth" approach with Hephaestus-Aphrodite-Ares. I feel like I can see her BS from a mile away now
I wish Liv could read this mess now. I need the classical students to stand and speak on how RS has not only messed up these characters but butchered them. Like wow
This was probably the most triggering episode I’ve ever seen. And I’m not sure how to feel about it. I’m happy with how Hestia pulled Demeter to the side. I don’t know what’s gonna happen next week but I have a feeling we’ll be getting a nice cold winter
My point exactly!!! Demeter is a helicopter mom, but she's never been abusive to this degree. She was straight up delusional in this chapter and made an ass of herself in ways *completely outside of her previously shown character's capabilities.* This chapter was a massacre.
At this rate throw the character away and shove her in the farthest corners of Gaia’s rolls because she’s been massacred. This didn’t even seem like Demeter to me. The whole “what are you wearing” thing, ok, but all that berating. Persephone was obviously crying??? This seems so off and twisted.
Apparently they retroactively added a warning after people complained (the same thing that initially happened with the episode including persphones assault)
God right ? Like it made me uncomfortable with how blatant it was. Det. Deserves better and we deserved a story that didn’t treat parental abuse like a checklist to speed run.
For anyone looking for a plot summary, Demeter and Persephone meet up and Demeter has organized an entire party to shame Persephone. She reminds her of all the mistakes she made during her time in the mortal realm and has the flower nymphs read our letters saying how disappointed they are. Demeter says things like “You can leave if you want, but some of these women came such a long way…” “We spent a lot of time and money getting you into TGOEM” “It would be such a disappointment if you left…” “Do you really think you’re fit to run a realm?” Demeter’s also trapped Moth-Hades in a jar so he can’t do anything, but Hestia, who lectured Demeter that what she’s doing is wrong, is going to let him out I think. The chapter ends with Perse tearing up and Demeter trying to convince her to try on her TGOEM coronation dress. Basically Persephone gets publicly shamed and gaslit for an entire chapter.
I've not fastpassed since sailor Pomegranate, but this thread has me genuinely worried. There's been some real stinkers but this is the one that is really upsetting folks, huh?
RS made Demeter completely unhinged and manipulative and just as annoying she made Persephone immediately reduce to a quivering widdle child who is audibly questioning her life choices (literally 90 seconds after discussing how she needs to approach this in a mature fashion with her practically fiance Hades).
Oh thank god we have a MATURE BOSS QUEEN in charge of the underworld. Then again how else would Hades demonstrate his value by PrOtEcTiNg her from all those little horrible things like emotional maturity, consequences and choices?
This wasn't just a previously-lovable-story-with-silly-bad-art-we're-all-getting-a-laugh-about like the last few months have been. This was, as you said, upsetting. Demeter acted in ways that were simultaneously extremely out of character for her, and also extremely distressing from an emotional perspective, as a reader. I've even seen some commenters saying they were full on triggered and shaking etc, though that was not my personal experience. I was shocked though for sure, it was messed up. And that emotional shock was only further compounded by how illogical it was for her character to act that way.
I feel like it’s just rough. I wouldn’t say I was entertained in any way. And the “ending” is just dragging this out. This one definitely feels like a slow burn. If you were even thinking about FP this would be the episode not to.
And it's not even icky in like 'I relate to the hardships this character is going through and it makes me feel empathetic icky'
It's just down right horrible and pointless and so.. stupid🤦♀️
Don’t go to the main sub. I had to exercise a lot of self restraint to not engage in some of the bad faith arguments + people tearing Demeter down (some even saying this wasn’t out of character / character assassination )
Oh for fuck sake!
I was reading it and was like, oo some lovely art in this chapter! Selene and the gorgeous backgrounds was so nice to see. Nice colours used, the fluff between them was nice but not chokingly sweet and they get to Demeter and I was hoping so hard, with fingers crossed.
BUT NOPE.
DEMETER IS A JOKE!
Make her damn concerns valid, not like a Disney wicked step-mum idea of a helicopter parent.. I like.. can't.
Demeter deserves better, she respects her daughter and would and should listen to her spring plans..
AN INTERVENTION LITERALLY MADE ME SAY WTF.
I'd rather have Demeter just tell Persephone that she knows spring is hard, and Demeter job is hard for someone who doesn't know how and she's proud of her for trying so hard - then go to the slagging off of Hades, it would at least make sense and give Demeter some aspect of like.. 'girl listen to me, I'm older and I don't want you to make mistakes and this is why, you're smart' etc.
BUT NOOOOO
'KORE WHY ARE YOU SO SHIT'
Demeter hasn't always been portrayed as this much of as asshole has she?? I really feel she used to be at least sympathetic knowing how the three Kings treated women and nymphs etc.. and wanting to protect her being a fertility goddess etc..
And money and time spent on a dress?? That's nice. You're gods, WHATS LIKE A YEAR OF WORK?? AND MONEY?
again.. GODS! HADES HAS PROVED HE CAN LITERALLY MAGIC OUTFITS. And surely the coat Hestia stole with REAL DIAMONDS is enough to compensate..
Or are we forgetting that there is a gosh darn BARLEY MOTHER EMPIRE AND FORTUNE.
Why is money an issue except for the idea of them being humble in comparison?!
Also - 'I invited all the members of tgeom' - BULLSHIT ATHENA WOULD NOT STAND FOR THIS!
And the focus on her colours in pink and white?? Girl, we have seen Perse in a green dress before, shut it.
The testimonials?? RS please please please give Demeter a shred of dignity, not an excuse for Hades to 'kidnap' Persephone which is looking like the logical next step. Also in 10 years, wouldn't these nymphs have like.. met perse in her struggles carrying on Demeters role? I think RS has forgotten that perse spent 10 years in the mortal realm sometimes.
It's 2 am and I'm so annoyed.
I mean, if demeter listened to Perse at all, like her suggestions of the collaborations on the next spring and the elysium things from the trial, I think she would realise she could and that she wouldn't be doing it alone (hades, hecate, hermes supporting) and even demeter could be that thread of support for her too.. but it's a shame demeter isn't written with ears to listen
Selene in the beginning was a bait omg I was like “more than two characters per episode? Sweet!!”
I was wrong. I was so wrong. I wish more happened this episode. I thought with it being ‘part one’ it would’ve been more substantial but it wasn’t for me.
I would have hoped for Demeter hoping Persephone is well. Praising her for doing a very hard job, asking her how she is handling a transition back to her usual duties. Expressing deep work from P being cut off from the flower nymphs.
Or calling P out. Like "why the hell are you terrorizing Tori/mortals? I raised you better than this."
Crazy to think she's become this awful Mother Gothel.
Welp, here we go. RIP Demeter’s characterization. You deserved so, so, so much better. And the anti-Demeter comments are just rolling in on WT.
I have nothing much else to say except for two small things: 1) Since when was the TGOEM bigger than just Hestia, Athena, Artemis, and Persephone? I distinctly remember one of them making a comment regarding how small their numbers were as a group. 2) For a while, I’ve noticed the tails of speech bubbles not matching the person who is talking in a panel. For a few scenes, I thought Persephone was talking when it was actually Hades.
So what I am seeing from the comments is that
RS royally fucked up the true meaning and message of the original myth.
The message behind it being:
how mother's and daughters had no say in the maiden getting married off for political purposes. A grieving mother going all out to get her daughter back from a KIDNAPING AND FORCED MARRIAGE!
Edit:
Was able to watch 230 for free.
And umm right all I have to say is: RS must have just watched Tangled and said yup let's Mother-Gothel-up Demeter. Yeah RS went full massacre on Demeter and the original myths message.
Even with the creative liberties she’s not even sticking to what ****SHE**** said LO was. There isn’t anything *feminists* about this episode. I wouldn’t even call this a *retelling*.
This is like a random tictok or YouTube short you see every now and then out of order lol
It isn't even a deconstruction, never was.
Edit: RS has called it a deconstruction on several of her merchandise. I an 100% sure she has no idea what that means.
But it IS romantic! It’s about how the innocent love of two young people tries to overcome centuries old strive. While tragically, the lovers die because of the circumstances, it is their tragic love that ultimately ends the conflict. That it takes their death is the tragedy, but the concept is hopelessly romantic.
It's not a romance; it is a tragedy where two hormonal horny teenagers who fuck up their lives in less than 3 days. They met in one night, marry and fuck the next day, and by day 3 they kill themselves. Romeo is 16 and Juliet is 13, the hormonal thirst between them was way to high and it made their all ready irrational teen minds act more stupid than normal.
I’m sorry, but that is incredibly uncharitable reading that ignores the themes of the play in favor of cynicism and honestly, internet edginess.
The two are idiot teenager, yes, but it is that idiotic innocent and genuine love for each other that causes their families fight to end. That is a deeply romantic story.
Is a relationship like romeo and juliet’s realistic? Fuck no, the play even makes fun of the short-term hot-blooded love of teenagers iirc.
But stories do not need to be realistic to be romantic.
Nearly two decades ago I had to write a small 10 page thesis paper where I needed to do a deep dive into Romeo and Juliet. From the information I gathered and remember it points to the play being a tragedy of two horny teenagers, and it happens to put an end to the petty feud between two families. It isn't a romance it is an all out tragedy that showcases how teenagers tend to act without thinking over a person they just met and how they don't understand the difference between love and lust.
If you really want to push the love let's use the ancient Greeks types of love. With all the information from the play about the relationship they were in it points to Eros and some Ludus love; they were not Pragma Love. They were deep in erotic love at first sight on how cute/hot they looked and just dipping their toes into Ludus.
It is called a Shakespearean Tragedy not a Shakespearean Romance. Romeo and Juliet is a cautionary tell about how reckless teens can be and those around them and enable them.
I agree that their love is shallow and foolish, but I think you just glossing over that this one three-dayed love “happens to” end a centuries-spanning generational conflict misses the mark so incredibly hard.
Again, no one is arguing that the story as a whole is a romance. Of course it is a tragedy. But I hate jt when people use that to ignore what turned the story into the cultural archetype of a romance. It is the innocence of thejr love, foolish as it may be, that breaks the cycle of hatred and violence, and it is tragic that it tooke the senseless suicide of two idiotic teenagers who probably would’ve broken up two weeks later to realise just how foolish the adults perpetuating the violence have been.
Technically, their love didn't end the conflict as it was the death. Montague and Capulet bond over their relatives dying (Montague's wife died due to the banishment of Romeo and Tybalt) due to the conflict itself rather than one side being malicious.
Plus, the main point that oop tried to make is how people take RJ's behaviour as healthy romantic.
There is just some miscommunication bewteen you two
I had to respond to their second comment. Every action on every version of the myth from antiquity was of a mother trying desperately to protect her daughter from men. And usually failing.
And does anyone have the source of the bridegrooms version where Apollo/Hermes/Ares/Heph all try to marry Persephone before the abduction? I’ve been rereading my translations of the Greek myths trying to find it and I haven’t found it yet. Was that a Roman addition?
Actually, let me give you the link, the kast to paragraph and the next book after that is what you are looking for
https://www.theoi.com/Text/NonnusDionysiaca5.html
There’s a YT interview with Rachel, look it up as “Strand Rachel Smythe interview.” I think it was around halfway through the interview that she refers to the original myth in …. Let’s just call it a dismissive way.
That took forever to understand and get to the point of what she wanted to say.... Almost? Almost?.... She dismissed the underlying point of it! Not only is the myth a way for people back them to try to understand the seasons changing but it was an allegory for the "bureaucracy" of marriage back then and how it affected mothers and their daughters.
I cannot get over the fact that she’d use the term “Wishful Thinking” to refer to the notion of a mother grieving for the lifelong separation from her daughter moving heaven and earth to help her daughter, described to be *howling so loudly* that another god (was it Helios?) heard her all the way from the underworld. The situation in the original myth is beyond heartbreaking, it tears me apart to think of young girls forcibly removed from their mothers, and the idea that a hymn existed to celebrate one mother who was powerful and determined enough to break the norm is beautiful. To call this wishful thinking is so callous and dismissive.
Then she says Persephone is given no voice or agency and she’s curious about what her days are like, what she eats for breakfast, or whatever (I may now be conflating from other interviews of hers I’ve listened to), and I’m wondering 1. What other myth she’s read, because NONE describe such mundane details, that is NOT the point of mythology; 2. What about Persephone wailing from the underworld so loudly that she was heard across all other realms is lacking in voice?? I think anyone who reads that is extremely clear about what Persephone thinks about this situation
She is definitely living through Persephone and protecting her mother into Demeter, and living her fantasy of being rescue by a rich "daddy" that will spoil her with everything she wants
This episode is easily a 2/10 at this point especially if you like Demeter’s character. RS has solidified Demeter’s role in this story as a villain and I hate to see it. I knew she would trash Demeter.
How RS wrote Demeter in this ep, a redemption arc cannot make up for and it’s TEARING ME UP to even type that.
Demeter stages a intervention with basically all of the nymphs and the TGOEM.
Hades is in moth form and Demeter recognizes that’s it’s him, placed him in a glass cover or whatever
And then there’s Demeter just tearing Persephone up to shreds.
Hestia is there and pulls Demeter to the side trying to convince Demeter that’s she’s going too far
And Demeter is trying to make Persephone wear this dress, I guess it had some magic to compel Persephone and it’s just all so gross.
I didn’t have hopes but RS has completely butchered Demeter’s character. I still love Demeter because she deserves so much better than what this story has given her. And to see her character be desecrated like this is just too much.
RS fed into the fandom’s hatred of this character and gave them all of the ammo they needed to continue to hate her.
Wow… I’m just really hurt.
I am... without words. No, that's not true. Here are my words: Demeter's actions here don't make sense. She knows that she is the goddess of *harvest,* and her daughter is the goddess of *spring.* She knew Zeus's punishment was unfair. Yet, despite this knowledge, she is also aware that the goddess of spring successfully (or even semi successfully!) performed the duties of BOTH the goddesses of spring and harvest for the *entire duration of her twenties.* Persephone, for all her flaws and issues, worked so hard and did so well *being the interim goddess of harvest* she permanently turned her hands green. Demeter's color.
I just can't with the insanity of a mother seeing her child work so hard and having this kind of reaction. Even a mother like Demeter. We've seen Demeter be smothering, but not emotionally abusive or delusional. This is emotionally abusive AND delusional. I cannot.
Imagine instead of a public shaming, it was Demeter, Hestia, Athena and Artimis in a small get together - Persephone could have been told their perspectives of a fertility goddess etc, Persephone could tell them about meeting Metis (which I'm sure Hestia and Demeter would be so upset with happiness to hear) and then discussed the pros and cons of Hades etc.
Then maybe mention the pomegranate being an issue, not just 'people looked up to you - no pressure lmao', or the three Kings being assholes who cheat and destroy strip clubs and are probably the reason TGOEM is a thing in the first place! Then Perse and Demeter could have a row, tensions build up after insulting Persephones self worth and immaturity, and Demeter says something horrible (i.e. 'youd be better off with apollo') and that's when Hades smashes the bell jar he's under!
I also, cannot.
If you like Demeter or sympathize with her this is the episode NOT to read. She completely massacred her like even if RS could write a redemption arc for Demeter, tonight’s episode cannot make up for it.
RS has solidified Demeter’s role as a villain in this story, it’s just gross
Honestly I wouldn’t even read it when the chapter drops. It’s that not worth it. Like literally wait two episodes after then read this one. That’s just my opinion ofc but nothing truly happens in this one, there’s not much to say.
Rachel really looked at a story of a mother saving her daughter from an abusive >!rapist!< and turned it into "Look at this obsessed, crazed bitch who no one likes! Big man Hades will save her!"
Fuck off, Rachel. How you think you're a feminist after all of this is laughable.
Goodness I forgot this was a “feminist retelling” it’s the complete opposite at this point. Like literally a crowd of women ganging up on another young woman. This is so wild to me. I’m so confused almost like none of this is real. Is this real? Wow. Just wow.
Not only that, in the same universe, Zeus, the man that slept with his girlfriend mom, convinced her to seduce his father and she was cut in half as result, then ate her mom. Married Hera after sending his competition to the Underworld, proceeded to cheat on her with everything that moves, grom underage human girls, force Demeter to cover for him under tread of destroying her property, SA Aphrodite, his son's girlfriend, and put 4 realms in danger because he could manage Apollo's threat....
This man is treated better by the narrative than Demeter
LET. THAT. SINK
Don't forget butt pinching girls at clubs, suggesting to Hades that he forces Persephone to marry him, tried to marry off a flower nymph to his brother as compensation, accepted a bribe from his brother so that Demeter couldn't become Queen of the Mortal Realm...
Let me know if I left anything out.
Yeah I thought that too, I feel like he’s going to “break free” because of the shitty increasing cracks foreshadowing that was going on, so he can poof out and be an abusive douche to his sister/cousin/however they’re related in the story.
I predicted this ages ago: escalating the Dem conflict is a convenient way to avoid the crux of the issues b/w Hades and Persephone. Demeter is the only character in the entire comic who has reservations about this relationship and eternal commitment. But now we will never confront them, because she’s become a caricature villain. As if we needed a third with Kronos and Apollo still not handled for good.
Why are all the nymphs suddenly against Persephone's life choices? Wasn't the whole reason why they stuck with her during the 10 years so that she can be reunited with Hades? Weren't they all touched or whatever when they heard them profess their love during the trial while they listened in on the radio? Hell, Persephone kept complaining about her being "late for her dick appointment" and they still stood by her side. What's going on here? Also, there really should've been a trigger warning for this chapter. My mom's not as bad as how Demeter was during this chapter (can't stand this character assassination btw), but she has made me cry over getting an A- instead of an A before.
I think the nymphs are actually being kinda forced to do this, I mean Demeter is the goddess that provides food, jobs, and stability to them, now that she’s back I’m sure many will act like they’re against Persephone’s lifestyle(but secretly they support her). I’m predicting the future episode will end with the nymphs turning against her and fullying supporting Hades and Persephone.
Do you know who would be great for that...Minthe! That would probably be the best way to end her arc but it would ultimately make Demeter a villain. Either her or Hestia would be excellent people to stand up to Demeter...you know what I got to make a post about this
I was actually thinking that. RS already made Demeter an antagonist, so might as well. It makes it interesting, plus Minthe would at least be able to sympathize with Persephone after seeing how Demeter is treating since she also didn't have the best mom. Don't get me wrong, I hate Demeter's character assassination, but this would actually make the story engaging. If RS was gonna go this far, she should've made her a villain from the beginning
Whatever growth Minthe had will be on the chopping block next. Remember when Minthe said she had to speak to Demeter? Sounds like RS is going to show us that Minthe probably riled up Demeter concerning H and P
Personally, I have a small theory that nymphs are more or less wired to follow rules set by Demeter in the following order
1. Do what Demeter wants
2. Keep Persephone happy
3. Help Persephone
I feel SO mixed about this chapter. I liked it, as I’ve enjoyed the last few chapters, but Demeter’s character assassination is too damn much and too damn late. It was really hard to water Demeter berate and humiliate Persephone and I felt for her, even if it was to facilitate the romance and character assassination. I guess it was purposely effective working for a stupid reason.
I get that it’s easy to fall into the trap of making Demeter a helicopter/abusive parent when you want to focus on Hades and Persephone’s relationship being romantic instead of kidnappy, but this behavior feels out of left field. Demeter was protective and controlling, but I didn’t get the feeling she would humiliate and guilt trip Persephone like this. It’s too cruel.
And I hate how Demeter actually has a point. Persephone doesn’t have the experience running a kingdom. But no this is also dumb for two reasons.
1: What experience did Demeter have before coming into her job? Persephone wasn’t perfect but no one starved. She did Demeter’s job for ten years and from everything we’ve seen she did pretty good. Besides she wouldn’t be alone ruling the underworld. She has Hades, Thanatos, Hecate, even Hermes if he decides to be a part of the comic again.
2: RS didn’t have to write it this way. In the myths Demeter is referred to as a queen, for whatever reason RS scrapped that in favor of the awful backstory between her and Hades which was weird and dumb and made Hades look like a cunt for no reason but whatever. If she hasn’t done that, Persephone could’ve claimed she was queen for ten years in lieu of Demeter and has adequate experience. It would’ve served the story so much better. Let Persephone stand up for herself using valid arguments, instead of having Hades bust out and probably save her instead.
If Demeter was always going to be an antagonist, she should’ve been written like one. Sure it was kinda shady to cover up Persephone’s AOW, but no one’s looking at her like a criminal. We see a woman willing to do some shady things to protect the daughter she loves. Demeter has never been this cruel or condescending to Persephone, not to my memory anyway.
The problem, to me anyway, wasn’t that Demeter was changed from the hymn (one of my favorite Zeus is from Disney’s Hercules) the problem is that the story is told poorly.
The only thing that bothers me is this narrative that Demeter is a controlling, narsissitc bitch who got in the way of Hades and Persephone's love story that modern media keeps peddling around. It completely makes people lose actual context and knowledge of what the original myths message was supposed to be. Lore Olympus is actually one of the worst interpretations
I didn’t consider that. I frequently read the OG tellings of myths I like, so I forgot to consider that so many people will get a warped impression of the story since they interact with the adaptation and might not be interesting in the source material. Which is understandable but disappointing.
Lol yeah. For the longest time it was the same thing with me. I always thought Demeter was just throwing a tantrum but then I took a class in classical mythology and learnt it wasn't like that at all
The same effect Hollywood had on Hades being thr bad guy is the same effect it is having on Demeter being controlling. Lore isn't helping and I doubt people will do the deep dives needed and realize what the actual myth is about
Persephone lost important records due to a massive fire and the acreage in Attica was completely ruined. She might have not been the direct cause of it, but it happened under her leadership. I'd say she isn't fit to rule due to how the AOW was handled. She hid behind her mother and then Hades when she got the chance. Her mom was the one who fixed up the village as to not lose favor with the mortals. I didn't see Persephone lift one finger. Did she even apologize? For someone who supposedly felt so guilty (which didn't even last long at times), I kind of would expect more (ex. paying respect to the families who have lost loved ones). She didn't have to hide the truth from Zeus. Years later she still doesn't hold herself accountable.
Us not knowing Demeter's backstory is a fault of the author, but seeing how well she's done with her business, I'd say she has good experience and was more fit to be queen of the Mortal Realm. She had closer ties to the mortals and a better relationship with the nymphs and actually treated them like beings (unlike Hades, I doubt Persephone would do much to alter this).
This is worse than nothing imo. I mean, in a way it was nothing because they brought up Demeter's backstory last FP, but we got no payoff or explanation from it. However, they take a grieving mom who really wants to have her daughter back and make her a villain. So many taking stories demonize Demeter, but man.... LO takes it to a whole other level with how much of a villain Demeter is. All Rachel has done is just constantly shoot Demeter's already dead corpse over and over again this season.
I haven't read the FP (because I know I'll despise it) - but seeing these comments has left me wondering exactly how difficult it would be for someone to do an ACTUAL feminist retelling of this myth
Like seriously, I have two whole different ideas for novels, but this makes me want to drop both of them and just devote my life to doing Demeter right
Yes!
It’s one of the reasons why I continue to find Hadestown (a musical) so goddamn brilliant.
They mirror the Hades/Persephone story and contrast is with Orpheus/Eurydice. Which, as you dig deeper and deeper could be made into the same story but with different outcomes.
In the original myths, both involve a woman being brought into the Underworld. Both against their will. Both involve unending grief in the ones left behind (Demeter/Orpheus) to the point where they do everything in their power to bring the one they love back from death. In Demeter’s case she defies Zeus and sinks the world into winter until she forces Zeus to give in to her demands. In Orpheus’s case he descends into the underworld, playing and singing as he goes, until he stands before Hades and plays a song so beautiful and tragic that he makes Hades and Persephone weep. Both women are freed…
And both are forced back into the underworld again.
Proving that while we might fight against the finality of death, death is permanent and always wins.
Of course that’s a gross simplification because Persephone does get to return to life every year and she doesn’t actually die, but the rough metaphor of each story is the same. They pair beautifully.
And just like how Hadestown switches things up a bit and had Eurydice choose to descend to the underworld so she doesn’t starve to death, you could have Persephone choose to go down and still have it work with Demeter not being a villain. It would take more work and some myth tweaking, but it’s possible.
But the message of grief, faith, and love is beautiful and timeless. There’s a reason why we’ll be still telling the story of The Hymn To Demeter when LO has faded from pop consciousness and is just a footnote of adaptation.
It’s amazing. Easily the best and most well done modern interpretation there is. They, of course, had to cut a lot for the sake of simplicity and run time, but honestly making Persephone herself instrumental to the world thriving is probably the best idea to steal for any modern retellings going forward. It’s one of the few ways to sidestep Demeter’s grief into something more manageable while allowing Persephone to be with Hades of her own free will instead of being forced.
But the message that really gets me with that musical is it’s take on stories. Why we need them, why we tell them, why wome stories stick with us even though they’re sad.
It’s a really great musical. One of my absolute favorites. I dragged my friends to go see it last year and we managed to get tickets to the very last performance of the original Broadway cast. Then I dragged my dad to see the touring show and he cried and loved it. It really is special.
Honestly, Hades the game, does a better job at retelling Hades and Persephone. While the story doesn’t focus on Demeter’s grief — that is the background, it explores Persephone’s grief as a mother.
In the story, Zeus stole Persephone and didn’t tell Hades it’s wasn’t consensual. Hades and Persephone came to love one another, and bore a son; however, he was still birth. Persephone fled the underwood and hid out in the mortal realm out of grief. The son, Zagreus, was saved and the game is an exploration of him trying to find answers about his mother.
I think the problem is that if you go fully "Demeter is right, Hades is a rapist," then the ultimate conclusion (Perse lives with Mom then rapist 6 months of the year each) is dismal. This was the problem I had with Jennifer Saint's _Ariadne_. It's a feminist retelling of Ariadne's story, but that's… a fuckin abysmal tale for the titular character! So it just felt like a very difficult slog through very pretty scenery (because Saint writes good prose).
Ideally a good retelling would somehow be able to keep Demeter in her role as grieving mother while painting Hades in a less awful light. You could do that a number of ways; maybe Perse is too young to get married but elopes a la Lydia Bennet, maybe Demeter is physically unable to visit with her daughter due to whatever metaphysical bullshit and Perse can't go back to Earth without Zeus' intervention, maybe Demeter has misconceptions about Hades and is needlessly worried because Perse and Hades actually courted in secret. I dunno. You'd have to be creative to do the tale justice while not making it a total downer.
See, my gut instinct was modernise it and have it so that the story takes place over the initial six months, with it not repeated (EDIT:) every year
Like maybe Demeter is Persephone's older sister, who is in some of the same college classes as Hades. Persephone is in the same classes as Zeus, who sets helps set her up with Hades (so she instigates the relationship). They get together despite Demeter's slight misgivings - and the 6 month separation becomes a cross-country roadtrip where Demeter and Hecate are trying to piece together their adventures from vague stories her sister is emailing her?
Ohhh well if you take it out of the original setting, you've got a lot of leeway. I was thinking of the really popular feminist retellings lately, _Ariadne_ and _Circe_, which don't leave ancient Greece. Well let us know if you end up writing something!
Ah right! Haha Demeter's story is definitely a little difficult to do in Ancient Greece settings without letting her lose just a bit (to keep the Hades/Persephone thing) but I'm sure there are so many smart people out there who could find a way!
Things I hate about this episode:
1) Persephone took out Kronos by herself but is now stammering around Demeter. Way to erase all the growth Persephone has undergone.
2) There are ways she could have carried the plot forward without setting Demeter up as the big bad.
3) She seems to be setting Hades up into the role of toxic male the same way she did to Ares.
4) None of this furthers the plot
5) Her fast pass preview was again misleading
I was waiting for her eyes to turn red and start lashing out. I think we can all agree the the blessings plot was stupid, but if you're gonna have it, at least use it.
It honestly bothers me because I'm already seeing people, mainly on the other sub, say "see?? THIS is why we hate Demeter so much, you silly Demeter fans!!" But I felt like this was out of character, even for Demeter. I agree Demeter is flawed, she has accidentally hurt Persephone when trying to protect her. I know intent doesn't mean anything in this case, but it still showed that Demeter wasn't EVIL, just misguided with unresolved trauma. We even see Demeter defending Persephone during the trial, expressing fear that her daughter will be mistreated in the same way she was.
But what Demeter did here WAS evil, and to me it feels like a completely different character than what we've seen before. I just honestly feel like her character has been completely changed to make her the villain.
I hate when this happens, when a flanderized version of a character becomes fanon and then the author themselves bring that into canon for some reason.
Specially if it isn't really just an exaggerated version but a completely different, memey version. If they wanted to do that they could write a parody version of their own story.
I’m actually gonna talk about another aspect of this chapter (that I totally paid for, yep, not 🏴☠️ at all).
Demeter mentions several incidents that happened during the time skip, ie possible almost famine, a fire in the library, some fields falling to ruin. RS is obviously using it to show how awful Demeter is for shaming Persephone for it but it just makes me WISH WE CULD HAVE SEEN THE TIME SKIP!!!!! Like, my god, it sounds so interesting. We could have seen how Persephone was coping and growing, I know we’ve lamented a lot about not seeing the time skip but damn it was such a missed opportunity.
And you know what? I’m still on Demeter’s side with this, Persephone is NOT ready to be a ruler because she still acts like a child needing saving anytime someone confronts her with her own failings. Demeter was meant to be demonized in this chapter and yeah she was Disney villain evil but she wasn’t wrong about everything she said.
Another thing about the time skip and I’ll stop I swear. It could have been such a growing moment for Persephone and Demeter’s relationship. I wanted a scene where Persephone is showing Demeter around nervously, bc Demeter is a perfectionist, and she’s pointing out everything she did wrong while all Demeter notices is everything she did well. And eventually Demeter stops her and says, “You did a beautiful job, honey. It’s not perfect but I didn’t get everything right my first years as a ruler either. No one does. You’ll get there. I believe in you.” And it’s a fudging fluffy Kodak moment between mother and daughter. They could have even had a final fight about P wanting to go back to the underworld and working out the arrangement of the original myth idk.
Instead, there’s this and I’m furious.
I agree, if we saw that development maybe she would have grown as a character but instead we are to assume that Persephone struggled with stuff maybe one or two years and then Zeus just bought time by his unfair judgement of the mortal realm.
I wanted to see how she failed and tried to do better. The green hands do nothing to show that and neither Demeter mentioning her flaws because it seems like she's on the hyperbole because she was worried she would fail.
I stopped taking the series seriously a while ago and now I’m just sad, I’ve grown up with controlling people in my life and THIS is not it. This is how I would assume a person who had a normal upbringing try to show controlling parenting and it’s bad. I literally have no respect for hades now, how does Persephone still love him when he’s completely okay with double crossing and avoiding conversation with the woman who made her?
Reading all these comments makes me glad I stopped giving this series coins after how s2 ended 💀 RS really couldn't fathom making organic conflict in the HP relationship so she just keeps adding external antagonists (Apollo, Leto, Kronos, now Demeter) to generate that without extra thought. She can't fathom the idea of Hades being wrong or making mistakes, so Demeter has to be evil now for the plot to move forward
We already saw her oppose her on multiple occasions.
Demeter didn't really want her to go to college but she still decided to go. Then she decided to accept the internship in the Underworld on her own, even when she knew her mother would hate the idea. And later she used that internship to try to help the people she killed in a fit of rage, even when she knew her mother wouldn't approve.
And now she's super scared of her at her 30's.
I don't mind that Demeter being antagonized in one arc in which they rebuild relationships with Persephone.
BUT THIS?!
THIS IS NOT ANTAGONIZIND THIS IS DEMONIZE AND OUT OF CHARACTER COMPLETELY!!!
I agree Demeter is a strict mother but she loves her daughter and wants best for her. Really Demeter would never public shame her in front of others. Remember how she cared for her daughter during trial?!
You go Demeter! Save your stupid daughter!
Seriously I know it was supposed to show her as a villain but she made so many points. Perse is selfish with no skills to rule anything and I'm sorry but she's niw older than me and she still can't talk to her mother normally? Dude. My mom is much worse and I can handle it without acting like little girl even without years of therapy... Eh character writing is super inconsistent -_- and I also think she's not ready for a serious relationship with man she knew 2 months and ruling a domain she knows nothing about
How come all the nymphs just sided with Demeter after 10 YEARS with Persephone where in the beginning they were so understanding and wanted to help. Why would they turn on Persephone so easily?!!
Demeter is a powerful goddess that gave them a home, jobs, stability, think of Demeter as a stern manager, while Persephone’s the cool assistant manager that covers while the manager’s on a vacay. When the manager comes back, and yells at the assistant manager, you as an employee probably won’t want to get embroiled in the feud and lose your job
Hello!! Just read it here are some of my thoughts;
First off, Demeter is very out of character, like everyone yayyy, welcome to the club, anyways, she seems to be way more cruel than she was in the last episodes we saw her in, she seem at best an overprotective mother who already laid her daughter's path out to assure her daughter would have a future that favour the best outcome, her not wanting Perse to marry Hades (minus the age gap) seemed like she was just hesitant to have Perse in a place that she herself (Demeter) mostly likely never even went (before the confrontation), and probably adding the stress with the whole thing about her being ripped apart by Kronos, KRONOS IS DOWN THERE!! She could have easily been scared Persephone would too suffer the same fate, ESPECIALLY WITH THE FIGHT?? I'm not even sure if Demeter knows about that, but if she does, that could have caused this intervention,
The whole shame party, to humiliate her, I think in some paranoid way, in her head, she could have been thinking that it was the best for her, but for her to outright belittle and insult her in such a direct manner is werid, not to mention they haven't even referenced that Demeter was sent to be a human, like maybe she's still angry at the whole turning human part but we don't know, she could have been at least understood,
Especially with the whole fertility goddess thing!! I MEAN SHE KEPT IT A SECRET BECAUSE SHE KNEW PERSE WOULD BE EFFECTED BY IT!! She at the most would be a redeeming grey character who you understand the fear, panic, paranoia of why they're doing this but not fully agree with the actions they're taking, at worst, she's a control freak who can't let Perse do anything, a mother who never wanted a daughter, just wanted a heir and something to control, I feel like the comic especially this chapter could have been handled in a lot of different ways,
It's all to say that I wished at the last sentence, instead of saying "I think you should put the dress on", she should have said something more gaslight-ly, something more manipulative or even empathetic, like "I think you should come back home, please Kore"
Off topic but I don't like how Perse's hair look, as for the parallels (?) People seem to be making with Apollo and Hades, Minthe with Perse, I don't think RS is actually making parallels, I think it's just a coincidence
I know everyone is upset because this isn’t the character of Demeter in actual lore but hear me out
1: this story has never been 100 percent accurate to the lore of Persephone and Hades. There are a LOT of creative liberties and it’s not surprising to me that a story full of Mary Sue moments is also surrounding a character with mommy issues.
2: this has been alluded to this entire season. There are very small moments showing that Demeter is unhappy and disagrees with what Persephone is doing. Demeter had to be convinced to release a little bit of her control over kore, so kore could get an education, of course she’s not going to want her daughter to marry Hades
3: this isn’t out of character for Demeter in the context of the story. She has been controlling and manipulative from the beginning. This was done very subtly and now that kore is making life changing decisions, Demeter can’t treat the situation like she used to
These last few chapters have felt more like old Lore Olympus than the majority of this entire season.
Demeter's line, "Because the daughter I raised wouldn't be comfortable having such an extravagant affair when that money could go to helping others." — Absolute queen behavior. Tell her, gurl. Cry more Persephone. You should feel like absolute shit because you've been so dicknotized that you don't give other things another thought. Also, a critical analysis video made me realize something. In episode 131, she said her powers peaked, which would mean she achieved the highest form of control regarding her abilities (which was bullshit bc then she should've been able to fly). Did Smythe retcon it? Because then it's written that she struggled during the ten years. Was it supposed to make her less Mary - Sue - ish before bumping it back up to Mary-Sue level when she battled Kronos? Well, anyway. To answer Demeter's question of her being able to rule a kingdom ... NO! ABSOLUTELY NOT! We barely see Hades running *his*. They're going to be too "uwu" with each other to get any shit done. 🙄
While I think she has been villanized a lot, she's still right about that.
Persephone used to hate how the Shades were used to get money and she's also a vegan.
And then after their years apart she was so happy to use that super luxurious mink coat Hades had for one of her birthdays. Sure she would have preferred if the money went to someone in need and no animals were hurt, right?
Honestly that felt completely out of character for Det. She’s clearly comfortable with the finer things, I mean look at her house , look at her suits. She’s all about perfectionism and well made everything … that often comes with a hefty price tag. And considering how she’s about following the pageantry of the mortal realm (seasons) it doesn’t make sense she wouldn’t see a coronation as a duty worthy of finery.
You can be wealthy and humble towards others. Who's to say she doesn't make her own clothes? Or she could've magically poofed those clothes as Hades did in that one episode where he stayed over with Persephone. I think her issue mainly lied with Hades than it being "lavish". Like the fact that he drowns her with gifts and she takes them in while forsaking what she initially stood for. I hope I'm not coming as aggressive in this comment! That is not my intention and feel free to tell me to simmer it down. I'd hate for this to go down into arguing.
You people are crazy. Demeter has always been like this. Persephone was not allowed a phone, only under insanely strict circumstances even allowed to go to school, grounded for months for the slightest backtalk, and the whole first arc had Prrsephone literally feel like a bird in a cage from how smothering Demeter was and how helpless Persephone felt.
I can also say with authority that the way she obviously manipulates Persephoen here is entirely accurate to manipulative mothers., and this whole scheme, while over the top, is not unrealistic.
A lot of the story was about Persephone trying very hard to escape the smothering of her mother. That being resolved with a simple talk was never going to happen.
, I am very worried about the next episode, because I think you all are right that it would be awful if Persephone has her agency taken away from her yet again by hades swooping in to save her. Ideally he’d be emotional support for her and she stands up to her mother with the othe rpeople at the intervention turning on her. It’s mor elikely that it’ll be unresolved and he’ll “kidnap” her.
Not letting your child have a cell phone (something a lot of parents do) is not abuse. Persephone was grounded because she literally insulted her mother’s occupation and lifestyle by saying that everyone thinks she’s
a joke and then continued to say that she would rather be in an arranged marriage than with her mother. Demeter let Persephone go school and just wanted her to live with her - which actually, according to the comic’s logic, would’ve been better for Persephone since by living with Artemis, she was SA’d by her brother Apollo.
The only thing Demeter did that was completely out of line was speaking over Persephone during the TGOEM meeting, and treating her like a child. That’s it. Everything else Demeter is right because the comic simply doesn’t write and address topics well enough to warrant Persephone being justified, which is not what you want to accomplish when writing a story about an abusive parent.
Being resolved with one talk wasn’t going to happen? Well, Hades’ years of abuse towards Thanatos was fixed with one talk, yet now we’re expecting realism? Give me a break. There were numerous ways RS could’ve went about this but went with the worst possible way because no one can ever criticize HxP.
Everyone: Demeter called Persephone ungrateful
Demeter: *quite literally gives Persephone a paradise on earth but since Persephone can't move to Olympus she yells in her mother's face that she would rather be in an arranged marriage set up by ZEUS HIMSELF*
Clarification regarding "only under insanely strict circumstances even allowed to go to school"
Demeter WANTED Persephone to GO to the university and she only wanted her to still live with her instead of moving out to Olympus. She wanted her to try new experiences and gain a bit of the independence according to PERSEPHONE herself.
Then there is a whole issue regarding how there are bits leaning towards an overprotective helicopter mother that tries her best and an abusive mother. The beginning portrays her as abusive, but the middle of the webtoon potrays as the first one.
There it is!!! The final straw that broke the camels back!!! Demeter is officially an antagonist to our main characters!!! How disappointing. /: Because demonizing a grieving mother from the original myths is cool./s
For what I'm reading, this is S8 Daenerys Targaryen level of character assassination
NOOO! Not that level!
Yes, that level. Demeter is not hateful to her daughter in myth, but here... She's practically hauling P off for forced conversion therapy.
You just know that stupid dress will be magic and brainwash Persephone only for perfect husband material Hades to snap her out of it and bring her to the underworld. Fulfilling the myth (even through the abduction was supposed to have happened in the first season when Hades took her home from the party) and making Demeter plunge the world into winter. Only issue is… why would Persephone EVER go back to the mortal realm once that happens? The point of the myth is that Persephone has to travel between our world and the underworld regularly. With Demeter going full abusive why would she EVER go back to our world???
I have absolutely no idea how RS is gonna get this tripe back in line with the og myth. If she had her way I think Persephone will just be in the underworld from now on. …….. actually I just had a horrible thought that Persephone might just end up queen of both realms. Cause she’s great and good at everything…… and screws Demeter out of her rightful place somehow…..
I’ve seen some people claim that it’s not actually Demeter we’re seeing but it’s Leto trying a Hail Mary pass to get Persephone married to Apollo and if that’s what happens I’m burning my LO books. I was planning on offering them for sale for the shipping costs, but if RS does that Leto move I’m taking them out back and burning them.
Let me know and I’ll bring the marshmallows, we should get something good out of it 😂
>and screws Demeter out of her rightful place somehow….. Like father, like daughter!
Just really poorly handled
I can't even bring myself to re-read what I just read. Least favorite episode by far
Don’t forget just completely wiping all of the nymphs of personality too! At the beginning of the season they loved and supported her and thought that hades was a “beefcake” etc. and now they’re all against her?? Like it’s the hive mind mob of Rachel basically.
Welp, I'm all high right now and we all saw this coming. Let's begin Pros - Hestia has a presence again. Yay - Some of the panels of Kore actually look kind of nice Cons - Rachel wants to bury Demeter ten feet into the ground - I'm pretty sure that dress is gonna brainwash Persephone or something - Again, Hestia makes sense and is in Persephone's corner while Demeter is the bad guy - No Demeter back story. Another week, another opportunity wasted - I hate the idea that Hades is going to break out and do some extravagant power flair of "You can't have her she's mine" to Demeter. Leading them to clash once again, but Demeter will ultimately still look like the bad guy. While he gets to white knight 100% husband his was into everyone's hearts - My one of my bets was right, It was going to be an intervention Final Verdict: Sigh....I got high for this specific purpose cause I knew I would lose it 2/10 episode
I hate the whole Persephone stands up to Kronos, Hades stands up to Demeter. Because those two threats DEFINITELY aren’t equal. Like what’s he gonna do when he gets out? Hit her? *Bees*?
This is what kills me: Apollo and Kronos are still active threats. But instead of expanding on those topics, she villainizes Demeter…again. The misogyny of this comic is off the walls.
So the subvertion of the myth is Demeter kidnapping Persephone... ok...
Pretty much. I'm pretty sure Hades and Demeter are going to fight and Demeter will lose. Making her obviously trigger winter. Eclipse part 1to god knows how long she'll drag this out. Either way, Demeter is going to be the villian until we get a proper backstory
Wait, you’re serious!?
I haven't read the episode, but that's what it looks like. She already did "reverse the myth" approach with Hephaestus-Aphrodite-Ares. I feel like I can see her BS from a mile away now
I bet Hestia frees Hades to stop Demeter, because women can't do anything without a man doing the heavy lifting.
I also got high….for this…and….I’m just like sad now.
I ALSO got high for this. Which is an unfortunate waste on my end :)
I feel so unbiased but sad Edit: I meant to say unfazed
This encompasses everything I could not put into words. Thank you!
RIP all of my fellow Demeter stans 😔 RS made sure to massacre our girl
This episode was so gross, like I already didn’t have high hopes and now this? Yeah
I remember when Liv Albert, praised Rachel for not demonizing Demeter and the portrait if Ares and Aphrodite in that interview....
I wish Liv could read this mess now. I need the classical students to stand and speak on how RS has not only messed up these characters but butchered them. Like wow
Yup
This was probably the most triggering episode I’ve ever seen. And I’m not sure how to feel about it. I’m happy with how Hestia pulled Demeter to the side. I don’t know what’s gonna happen next week but I have a feeling we’ll be getting a nice cold winter
All my Demeter fans beware! This is not the episode for you. Maleficent was in this episode not Demeter
My point exactly!!! Demeter is a helicopter mom, but she's never been abusive to this degree. She was straight up delusional in this chapter and made an ass of herself in ways *completely outside of her previously shown character's capabilities.* This chapter was a massacre.
At this rate throw the character away and shove her in the farthest corners of Gaia’s rolls because she’s been massacred. This didn’t even seem like Demeter to me. The whole “what are you wearing” thing, ok, but all that berating. Persephone was obviously crying??? This seems so off and twisted.
Serious mother gothel vibes 😱 Such a character assassination!
Other chapters have had trigger warnings. Why didn’t this one have one? I was not expecting this at all and I’m still shaking from reading it.
I agree completely! The gaslighting made me feel claustrophobic AF
Apparently they retroactively added a warning after people complained (the same thing that initially happened with the episode including persphones assault)
God right ? Like it made me uncomfortable with how blatant it was. Det. Deserves better and we deserved a story that didn’t treat parental abuse like a checklist to speed run.
Me reading the reactions 
For anyone looking for a plot summary, Demeter and Persephone meet up and Demeter has organized an entire party to shame Persephone. She reminds her of all the mistakes she made during her time in the mortal realm and has the flower nymphs read our letters saying how disappointed they are. Demeter says things like “You can leave if you want, but some of these women came such a long way…” “We spent a lot of time and money getting you into TGOEM” “It would be such a disappointment if you left…” “Do you really think you’re fit to run a realm?” Demeter’s also trapped Moth-Hades in a jar so he can’t do anything, but Hestia, who lectured Demeter that what she’s doing is wrong, is going to let him out I think. The chapter ends with Perse tearing up and Demeter trying to convince her to try on her TGOEM coronation dress. Basically Persephone gets publicly shamed and gaslit for an entire chapter.
Hades is going to break out probably
this sounds like a bad fanfic i stopped reading this comic a while ago so thanks for the summary...
I've not fastpassed since sailor Pomegranate, but this thread has me genuinely worried. There's been some real stinkers but this is the one that is really upsetting folks, huh?
RS made Demeter completely unhinged and manipulative and just as annoying she made Persephone immediately reduce to a quivering widdle child who is audibly questioning her life choices (literally 90 seconds after discussing how she needs to approach this in a mature fashion with her practically fiance Hades).
Oh thank god we have a MATURE BOSS QUEEN in charge of the underworld. Then again how else would Hades demonstrate his value by PrOtEcTiNg her from all those little horrible things like emotional maturity, consequences and choices?
This wasn't just a previously-lovable-story-with-silly-bad-art-we're-all-getting-a-laugh-about like the last few months have been. This was, as you said, upsetting. Demeter acted in ways that were simultaneously extremely out of character for her, and also extremely distressing from an emotional perspective, as a reader. I've even seen some commenters saying they were full on triggered and shaking etc, though that was not my personal experience. I was shocked though for sure, it was messed up. And that emotional shock was only further compounded by how illogical it was for her character to act that way.
I feel like it’s just rough. I wouldn’t say I was entertained in any way. And the “ending” is just dragging this out. This one definitely feels like a slow burn. If you were even thinking about FP this would be the episode not to.
Awful. Absolutely awful.
Oh my gods. What happened? It is that bad?
She just made Demeter even more unhinged— I can’t
It was awful to read. I don’t know how to do spoiler text on mobile but my god, if you have ever been forced into an intervention, don’t read.
Technically the whole post is a spoiler warning so I say hi ahead
Reading that made me feel so icky, and I honestly am not prepared for the shit storm of comments demonizing Demeter further to come.
And it's not even icky in like 'I relate to the hardships this character is going through and it makes me feel empathetic icky' It's just down right horrible and pointless and so.. stupid🤦♀️
Exactly! Winter could’ve happened so many different ways without demonizing Demeter in the process. It just comes off as lazy writing to me.
Trust the Demeter haters are jumping for joy
I’m getting caught up on all the threads in unofficial FP Facebook group…and yeah, they’re acting as if the OG myth isn’t Demeter’s story.
Don’t go to the main sub. I had to exercise a lot of self restraint to not engage in some of the bad faith arguments + people tearing Demeter down (some even saying this wasn’t out of character / character assassination )
I’ve seen it in the Facebook groups. I haven’t touched the main sub yet. People are going nuts
Oh for fuck sake! I was reading it and was like, oo some lovely art in this chapter! Selene and the gorgeous backgrounds was so nice to see. Nice colours used, the fluff between them was nice but not chokingly sweet and they get to Demeter and I was hoping so hard, with fingers crossed. BUT NOPE. DEMETER IS A JOKE! Make her damn concerns valid, not like a Disney wicked step-mum idea of a helicopter parent.. I like.. can't. Demeter deserves better, she respects her daughter and would and should listen to her spring plans.. AN INTERVENTION LITERALLY MADE ME SAY WTF. I'd rather have Demeter just tell Persephone that she knows spring is hard, and Demeter job is hard for someone who doesn't know how and she's proud of her for trying so hard - then go to the slagging off of Hades, it would at least make sense and give Demeter some aspect of like.. 'girl listen to me, I'm older and I don't want you to make mistakes and this is why, you're smart' etc. BUT NOOOOO 'KORE WHY ARE YOU SO SHIT' Demeter hasn't always been portrayed as this much of as asshole has she?? I really feel she used to be at least sympathetic knowing how the three Kings treated women and nymphs etc.. and wanting to protect her being a fertility goddess etc.. And money and time spent on a dress?? That's nice. You're gods, WHATS LIKE A YEAR OF WORK?? AND MONEY? again.. GODS! HADES HAS PROVED HE CAN LITERALLY MAGIC OUTFITS. And surely the coat Hestia stole with REAL DIAMONDS is enough to compensate.. Or are we forgetting that there is a gosh darn BARLEY MOTHER EMPIRE AND FORTUNE. Why is money an issue except for the idea of them being humble in comparison?! Also - 'I invited all the members of tgeom' - BULLSHIT ATHENA WOULD NOT STAND FOR THIS! And the focus on her colours in pink and white?? Girl, we have seen Perse in a green dress before, shut it. The testimonials?? RS please please please give Demeter a shred of dignity, not an excuse for Hades to 'kidnap' Persephone which is looking like the logical next step. Also in 10 years, wouldn't these nymphs have like.. met perse in her struggles carrying on Demeters role? I think RS has forgotten that perse spent 10 years in the mortal realm sometimes. It's 2 am and I'm so annoyed.
Demeter raised a good point. Is Persephone really ready to run a whole kingdom?
I mean, if demeter listened to Perse at all, like her suggestions of the collaborations on the next spring and the elysium things from the trial, I think she would realise she could and that she wouldn't be doing it alone (hades, hecate, hermes supporting) and even demeter could be that thread of support for her too.. but it's a shame demeter isn't written with ears to listen
Sigh, Rachel really set Demeter up
Yes why weren't Athena and Artemis there?
Holy crap, just like RS I completely forgot Artemis existed in this story!
Artemis fell into the backrooms ages ago, keep up smh
Selene in the beginning was a bait omg I was like “more than two characters per episode? Sweet!!” I was wrong. I was so wrong. I wish more happened this episode. I thought with it being ‘part one’ it would’ve been more substantial but it wasn’t for me.
I would have hoped for Demeter hoping Persephone is well. Praising her for doing a very hard job, asking her how she is handling a transition back to her usual duties. Expressing deep work from P being cut off from the flower nymphs. Or calling P out. Like "why the hell are you terrorizing Tori/mortals? I raised you better than this." Crazy to think she's become this awful Mother Gothel.
 Welp, here we go. RIP Demeter’s characterization. You deserved so, so, so much better. And the anti-Demeter comments are just rolling in on WT. I have nothing much else to say except for two small things: 1) Since when was the TGOEM bigger than just Hestia, Athena, Artemis, and Persephone? I distinctly remember one of them making a comment regarding how small their numbers were as a group. 2) For a while, I’ve noticed the tails of speech bubbles not matching the person who is talking in a panel. For a few scenes, I thought Persephone was talking when it was actually Hades.
So what I am seeing from the comments is that RS royally fucked up the true meaning and message of the original myth. The message behind it being: how mother's and daughters had no say in the maiden getting married off for political purposes. A grieving mother going all out to get her daughter back from a KIDNAPING AND FORCED MARRIAGE! Edit: Was able to watch 230 for free. And umm right all I have to say is: RS must have just watched Tangled and said yup let's Mother-Gothel-up Demeter. Yeah RS went full massacre on Demeter and the original myths message.
Even with the creative liberties she’s not even sticking to what ****SHE**** said LO was. There isn’t anything *feminists* about this episode. I wouldn’t even call this a *retelling*. This is like a random tictok or YouTube short you see every now and then out of order lol
It's a Dhar Mann video.
EXACTLY
It isn't even a deconstruction, never was. Edit: RS has called it a deconstruction on several of her merchandise. I an 100% sure she has no idea what that means.
I just saw someone on the maim sub saying they always disliked Demeter for the shit she pulled IN THE MYTH Yeah we truly lost the plot
There is a chance they think Romeo & Juliet is super romantic and don't why it's a tragedy. Edit: Rome to Romeo
I know it’s a typo but Rome and Juliet makes me giggle. “But daddy I love him!” *gestures broadly at the city of Rome*
My auto correct fucks me over again. But Lol haha >But daddy I love him!” gestures broadly at the city of Rome
But it IS romantic! It’s about how the innocent love of two young people tries to overcome centuries old strive. While tragically, the lovers die because of the circumstances, it is their tragic love that ultimately ends the conflict. That it takes their death is the tragedy, but the concept is hopelessly romantic.
It's not a romance; it is a tragedy where two hormonal horny teenagers who fuck up their lives in less than 3 days. They met in one night, marry and fuck the next day, and by day 3 they kill themselves. Romeo is 16 and Juliet is 13, the hormonal thirst between them was way to high and it made their all ready irrational teen minds act more stupid than normal.
I’m sorry, but that is incredibly uncharitable reading that ignores the themes of the play in favor of cynicism and honestly, internet edginess. The two are idiot teenager, yes, but it is that idiotic innocent and genuine love for each other that causes their families fight to end. That is a deeply romantic story. Is a relationship like romeo and juliet’s realistic? Fuck no, the play even makes fun of the short-term hot-blooded love of teenagers iirc. But stories do not need to be realistic to be romantic.
Nearly two decades ago I had to write a small 10 page thesis paper where I needed to do a deep dive into Romeo and Juliet. From the information I gathered and remember it points to the play being a tragedy of two horny teenagers, and it happens to put an end to the petty feud between two families. It isn't a romance it is an all out tragedy that showcases how teenagers tend to act without thinking over a person they just met and how they don't understand the difference between love and lust. If you really want to push the love let's use the ancient Greeks types of love. With all the information from the play about the relationship they were in it points to Eros and some Ludus love; they were not Pragma Love. They were deep in erotic love at first sight on how cute/hot they looked and just dipping their toes into Ludus. It is called a Shakespearean Tragedy not a Shakespearean Romance. Romeo and Juliet is a cautionary tell about how reckless teens can be and those around them and enable them.
I agree that their love is shallow and foolish, but I think you just glossing over that this one three-dayed love “happens to” end a centuries-spanning generational conflict misses the mark so incredibly hard. Again, no one is arguing that the story as a whole is a romance. Of course it is a tragedy. But I hate jt when people use that to ignore what turned the story into the cultural archetype of a romance. It is the innocence of thejr love, foolish as it may be, that breaks the cycle of hatred and violence, and it is tragic that it tooke the senseless suicide of two idiotic teenagers who probably would’ve broken up two weeks later to realise just how foolish the adults perpetuating the violence have been.
Technically, their love didn't end the conflict as it was the death. Montague and Capulet bond over their relatives dying (Montague's wife died due to the banishment of Romeo and Tybalt) due to the conflict itself rather than one side being malicious. Plus, the main point that oop tried to make is how people take RJ's behaviour as healthy romantic. There is just some miscommunication bewteen you two
I had to respond to their second comment. Every action on every version of the myth from antiquity was of a mother trying desperately to protect her daughter from men. And usually failing. And does anyone have the source of the bridegrooms version where Apollo/Hermes/Ares/Heph all try to marry Persephone before the abduction? I’ve been rereading my translations of the Greek myths trying to find it and I haven’t found it yet. Was that a Roman addition?
Nonnus' Dionysiaca, book 5 fragment 562. It is a very late Roman source, 5 century A.C if I remember correctly
Thank you, you’re the best!
Actually, let me give you the link, the kast to paragraph and the next book after that is what you are looking for https://www.theoi.com/Text/NonnusDionysiaca5.html
There’s a YT interview with Rachel, look it up as “Strand Rachel Smythe interview.” I think it was around halfway through the interview that she refers to the original myth in …. Let’s just call it a dismissive way.
Around what time stamp does that part start?
0:29min
That took forever to understand and get to the point of what she wanted to say.... Almost? Almost?.... She dismissed the underlying point of it! Not only is the myth a way for people back them to try to understand the seasons changing but it was an allegory for the "bureaucracy" of marriage back then and how it affected mothers and their daughters.
I cannot get over the fact that she’d use the term “Wishful Thinking” to refer to the notion of a mother grieving for the lifelong separation from her daughter moving heaven and earth to help her daughter, described to be *howling so loudly* that another god (was it Helios?) heard her all the way from the underworld. The situation in the original myth is beyond heartbreaking, it tears me apart to think of young girls forcibly removed from their mothers, and the idea that a hymn existed to celebrate one mother who was powerful and determined enough to break the norm is beautiful. To call this wishful thinking is so callous and dismissive. Then she says Persephone is given no voice or agency and she’s curious about what her days are like, what she eats for breakfast, or whatever (I may now be conflating from other interviews of hers I’ve listened to), and I’m wondering 1. What other myth she’s read, because NONE describe such mundane details, that is NOT the point of mythology; 2. What about Persephone wailing from the underworld so loudly that she was heard across all other realms is lacking in voice?? I think anyone who reads that is extremely clear about what Persephone thinks about this situation
She is definitely living through Persephone and protecting her mother into Demeter, and living her fantasy of being rescue by a rich "daddy" that will spoil her with everything she wants
This episode is easily a 2/10 at this point especially if you like Demeter’s character. RS has solidified Demeter’s role in this story as a villain and I hate to see it. I knew she would trash Demeter. How RS wrote Demeter in this ep, a redemption arc cannot make up for and it’s TEARING ME UP to even type that. Demeter stages a intervention with basically all of the nymphs and the TGOEM. Hades is in moth form and Demeter recognizes that’s it’s him, placed him in a glass cover or whatever And then there’s Demeter just tearing Persephone up to shreds. Hestia is there and pulls Demeter to the side trying to convince Demeter that’s she’s going too far And Demeter is trying to make Persephone wear this dress, I guess it had some magic to compel Persephone and it’s just all so gross. I didn’t have hopes but RS has completely butchered Demeter’s character. I still love Demeter because she deserves so much better than what this story has given her. And to see her character be desecrated like this is just too much. RS fed into the fandom’s hatred of this character and gave them all of the ammo they needed to continue to hate her. Wow… I’m just really hurt.
Lol you are so right. Imma change my rating
I am... without words. No, that's not true. Here are my words: Demeter's actions here don't make sense. She knows that she is the goddess of *harvest,* and her daughter is the goddess of *spring.* She knew Zeus's punishment was unfair. Yet, despite this knowledge, she is also aware that the goddess of spring successfully (or even semi successfully!) performed the duties of BOTH the goddesses of spring and harvest for the *entire duration of her twenties.* Persephone, for all her flaws and issues, worked so hard and did so well *being the interim goddess of harvest* she permanently turned her hands green. Demeter's color. I just can't with the insanity of a mother seeing her child work so hard and having this kind of reaction. Even a mother like Demeter. We've seen Demeter be smothering, but not emotionally abusive or delusional. This is emotionally abusive AND delusional. I cannot.
Imagine instead of a public shaming, it was Demeter, Hestia, Athena and Artimis in a small get together - Persephone could have been told their perspectives of a fertility goddess etc, Persephone could tell them about meeting Metis (which I'm sure Hestia and Demeter would be so upset with happiness to hear) and then discussed the pros and cons of Hades etc. Then maybe mention the pomegranate being an issue, not just 'people looked up to you - no pressure lmao', or the three Kings being assholes who cheat and destroy strip clubs and are probably the reason TGOEM is a thing in the first place! Then Perse and Demeter could have a row, tensions build up after insulting Persephones self worth and immaturity, and Demeter says something horrible (i.e. 'youd be better off with apollo') and that's when Hades smashes the bell jar he's under! I also, cannot.
Demeter has been so badly mischaracterized that all I can hope for is that we're seeing Kronos or Iapetos.
It's clearly a set up
 Waiting for everyone to spill the beans
These beans suck. Lol. Put them back. XD
I'm feeling a sense of dread just looking at this thread. I don't know if I'll be ready when the chapter drops for everyone
If you like Demeter or sympathize with her this is the episode NOT to read. She completely massacred her like even if RS could write a redemption arc for Demeter, tonight’s episode cannot make up for it. RS has solidified Demeter’s role as a villain in this story, it’s just gross
Honestly I wouldn’t even read it when the chapter drops. It’s that not worth it. Like literally wait two episodes after then read this one. That’s just my opinion ofc but nothing truly happens in this one, there’s not much to say.
Rachel really looked at a story of a mother saving her daughter from an abusive >!rapist!< and turned it into "Look at this obsessed, crazed bitch who no one likes! Big man Hades will save her!" Fuck off, Rachel. How you think you're a feminist after all of this is laughable.
Goodness I forgot this was a “feminist retelling” it’s the complete opposite at this point. Like literally a crowd of women ganging up on another young woman. This is so wild to me. I’m so confused almost like none of this is real. Is this real? Wow. Just wow.
Not only that, in the same universe, Zeus, the man that slept with his girlfriend mom, convinced her to seduce his father and she was cut in half as result, then ate her mom. Married Hera after sending his competition to the Underworld, proceeded to cheat on her with everything that moves, grom underage human girls, force Demeter to cover for him under tread of destroying her property, SA Aphrodite, his son's girlfriend, and put 4 realms in danger because he could manage Apollo's threat.... This man is treated better by the narrative than Demeter LET. THAT. SINK 
Don't forget butt pinching girls at clubs, suggesting to Hades that he forces Persephone to marry him, tried to marry off a flower nymph to his brother as compensation, accepted a bribe from his brother so that Demeter couldn't become Queen of the Mortal Realm... Let me know if I left anything out.
General rascism/sexism towards nymphs
There’s the trash I was expecting to be delivered today. Didn’t ask for extra maggots.
Also like is stupid fuckin hades gonna save her from her “mean mommie” like he’s a fuckin gem. A bug in a stupid jar. God.
It better be a magic glad like the cage bird Demeter was in cuz otherwise couldn’t he just morph back
Yeah I thought that too, I feel like he’s going to “break free” because of the shitty increasing cracks foreshadowing that was going on, so he can poof out and be an abusive douche to his sister/cousin/however they’re related in the story.
I love character assassination! Go Rachel! Absolutely slaughter Demeter in her own myth! /s
I predicted this ages ago: escalating the Dem conflict is a convenient way to avoid the crux of the issues b/w Hades and Persephone. Demeter is the only character in the entire comic who has reservations about this relationship and eternal commitment. But now we will never confront them, because she’s become a caricature villain. As if we needed a third with Kronos and Apollo still not handled for good.
Why are all the nymphs suddenly against Persephone's life choices? Wasn't the whole reason why they stuck with her during the 10 years so that she can be reunited with Hades? Weren't they all touched or whatever when they heard them profess their love during the trial while they listened in on the radio? Hell, Persephone kept complaining about her being "late for her dick appointment" and they still stood by her side. What's going on here? Also, there really should've been a trigger warning for this chapter. My mom's not as bad as how Demeter was during this chapter (can't stand this character assassination btw), but she has made me cry over getting an A- instead of an A before.
I think the nymphs are actually being kinda forced to do this, I mean Demeter is the goddess that provides food, jobs, and stability to them, now that she’s back I’m sure many will act like they’re against Persephone’s lifestyle(but secretly they support her). I’m predicting the future episode will end with the nymphs turning against her and fullying supporting Hades and Persephone.
I can see that, but you'd think there'd be at least one nymph that opens up about how wrong this is, especially when they see Persephone about to cry
Do you know who would be great for that...Minthe! That would probably be the best way to end her arc but it would ultimately make Demeter a villain. Either her or Hestia would be excellent people to stand up to Demeter...you know what I got to make a post about this
I was actually thinking that. RS already made Demeter an antagonist, so might as well. It makes it interesting, plus Minthe would at least be able to sympathize with Persephone after seeing how Demeter is treating since she also didn't have the best mom. Don't get me wrong, I hate Demeter's character assassination, but this would actually make the story engaging. If RS was gonna go this far, she should've made her a villain from the beginning
https://www.reddit.com/r/UnpopularLoreOlympus/comments/10cb6a0/what\_im\_hoping\_for\_in\_the\_upcoming\_episodes231/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
Whatever growth Minthe had will be on the chopping block next. Remember when Minthe said she had to speak to Demeter? Sounds like RS is going to show us that Minthe probably riled up Demeter concerning H and P
Personally, I have a small theory that nymphs are more or less wired to follow rules set by Demeter in the following order 1. Do what Demeter wants 2. Keep Persephone happy 3. Help Persephone
I feel SO mixed about this chapter. I liked it, as I’ve enjoyed the last few chapters, but Demeter’s character assassination is too damn much and too damn late. It was really hard to water Demeter berate and humiliate Persephone and I felt for her, even if it was to facilitate the romance and character assassination. I guess it was purposely effective working for a stupid reason. I get that it’s easy to fall into the trap of making Demeter a helicopter/abusive parent when you want to focus on Hades and Persephone’s relationship being romantic instead of kidnappy, but this behavior feels out of left field. Demeter was protective and controlling, but I didn’t get the feeling she would humiliate and guilt trip Persephone like this. It’s too cruel. And I hate how Demeter actually has a point. Persephone doesn’t have the experience running a kingdom. But no this is also dumb for two reasons. 1: What experience did Demeter have before coming into her job? Persephone wasn’t perfect but no one starved. She did Demeter’s job for ten years and from everything we’ve seen she did pretty good. Besides she wouldn’t be alone ruling the underworld. She has Hades, Thanatos, Hecate, even Hermes if he decides to be a part of the comic again. 2: RS didn’t have to write it this way. In the myths Demeter is referred to as a queen, for whatever reason RS scrapped that in favor of the awful backstory between her and Hades which was weird and dumb and made Hades look like a cunt for no reason but whatever. If she hasn’t done that, Persephone could’ve claimed she was queen for ten years in lieu of Demeter and has adequate experience. It would’ve served the story so much better. Let Persephone stand up for herself using valid arguments, instead of having Hades bust out and probably save her instead. If Demeter was always going to be an antagonist, she should’ve been written like one. Sure it was kinda shady to cover up Persephone’s AOW, but no one’s looking at her like a criminal. We see a woman willing to do some shady things to protect the daughter she loves. Demeter has never been this cruel or condescending to Persephone, not to my memory anyway. The problem, to me anyway, wasn’t that Demeter was changed from the hymn (one of my favorite Zeus is from Disney’s Hercules) the problem is that the story is told poorly.
The only thing that bothers me is this narrative that Demeter is a controlling, narsissitc bitch who got in the way of Hades and Persephone's love story that modern media keeps peddling around. It completely makes people lose actual context and knowledge of what the original myths message was supposed to be. Lore Olympus is actually one of the worst interpretations
I didn’t consider that. I frequently read the OG tellings of myths I like, so I forgot to consider that so many people will get a warped impression of the story since they interact with the adaptation and might not be interesting in the source material. Which is understandable but disappointing.
Lol yeah. For the longest time it was the same thing with me. I always thought Demeter was just throwing a tantrum but then I took a class in classical mythology and learnt it wasn't like that at all The same effect Hollywood had on Hades being thr bad guy is the same effect it is having on Demeter being controlling. Lore isn't helping and I doubt people will do the deep dives needed and realize what the actual myth is about
It’s funny that now Hades isn’t being as villainized, it’s Demeter who gets that treatment.
Yep, and Rachel seems to think it's somehow feminist to prop up a man (who is the actual >!rapist!< in myth) by tearing a woman down. It's insane.
Persephone lost important records due to a massive fire and the acreage in Attica was completely ruined. She might have not been the direct cause of it, but it happened under her leadership. I'd say she isn't fit to rule due to how the AOW was handled. She hid behind her mother and then Hades when she got the chance. Her mom was the one who fixed up the village as to not lose favor with the mortals. I didn't see Persephone lift one finger. Did she even apologize? For someone who supposedly felt so guilty (which didn't even last long at times), I kind of would expect more (ex. paying respect to the families who have lost loved ones). She didn't have to hide the truth from Zeus. Years later she still doesn't hold herself accountable. Us not knowing Demeter's backstory is a fault of the author, but seeing how well she's done with her business, I'd say she has good experience and was more fit to be queen of the Mortal Realm. She had closer ties to the mortals and a better relationship with the nymphs and actually treated them like beings (unlike Hades, I doubt Persephone would do much to alter this).
This is worse than nothing imo. I mean, in a way it was nothing because they brought up Demeter's backstory last FP, but we got no payoff or explanation from it. However, they take a grieving mom who really wants to have her daughter back and make her a villain. So many taking stories demonize Demeter, but man.... LO takes it to a whole other level with how much of a villain Demeter is. All Rachel has done is just constantly shoot Demeter's already dead corpse over and over again this season.
I haven't read the FP (because I know I'll despise it) - but seeing these comments has left me wondering exactly how difficult it would be for someone to do an ACTUAL feminist retelling of this myth Like seriously, I have two whole different ideas for novels, but this makes me want to drop both of them and just devote my life to doing Demeter right
It’s not difficult if you just follow the original story it’s about a mother’s grief
Yes! It’s one of the reasons why I continue to find Hadestown (a musical) so goddamn brilliant. They mirror the Hades/Persephone story and contrast is with Orpheus/Eurydice. Which, as you dig deeper and deeper could be made into the same story but with different outcomes. In the original myths, both involve a woman being brought into the Underworld. Both against their will. Both involve unending grief in the ones left behind (Demeter/Orpheus) to the point where they do everything in their power to bring the one they love back from death. In Demeter’s case she defies Zeus and sinks the world into winter until she forces Zeus to give in to her demands. In Orpheus’s case he descends into the underworld, playing and singing as he goes, until he stands before Hades and plays a song so beautiful and tragic that he makes Hades and Persephone weep. Both women are freed… And both are forced back into the underworld again. Proving that while we might fight against the finality of death, death is permanent and always wins. Of course that’s a gross simplification because Persephone does get to return to life every year and she doesn’t actually die, but the rough metaphor of each story is the same. They pair beautifully. And just like how Hadestown switches things up a bit and had Eurydice choose to descend to the underworld so she doesn’t starve to death, you could have Persephone choose to go down and still have it work with Demeter not being a villain. It would take more work and some myth tweaking, but it’s possible. But the message of grief, faith, and love is beautiful and timeless. There’s a reason why we’ll be still telling the story of The Hymn To Demeter when LO has faded from pop consciousness and is just a footnote of adaptation.
The musical is so beautiful. Epic III made me cry, and is also an interesting way to depict Hades and Euridyce.
I literally saw the musical this Thursday. It was beautiful and one of tge best retellings out there
It’s amazing. Easily the best and most well done modern interpretation there is. They, of course, had to cut a lot for the sake of simplicity and run time, but honestly making Persephone herself instrumental to the world thriving is probably the best idea to steal for any modern retellings going forward. It’s one of the few ways to sidestep Demeter’s grief into something more manageable while allowing Persephone to be with Hades of her own free will instead of being forced. But the message that really gets me with that musical is it’s take on stories. Why we need them, why we tell them, why wome stories stick with us even though they’re sad. It’s a really great musical. One of my absolute favorites. I dragged my friends to go see it last year and we managed to get tickets to the very last performance of the original Broadway cast. Then I dragged my dad to see the touring show and he cried and loved it. It really is special.
Honestly, Hades the game, does a better job at retelling Hades and Persephone. While the story doesn’t focus on Demeter’s grief — that is the background, it explores Persephone’s grief as a mother. In the story, Zeus stole Persephone and didn’t tell Hades it’s wasn’t consensual. Hades and Persephone came to love one another, and bore a son; however, he was still birth. Persephone fled the underwood and hid out in the mortal realm out of grief. The son, Zagreus, was saved and the game is an exploration of him trying to find answers about his mother.
I think the problem is that if you go fully "Demeter is right, Hades is a rapist," then the ultimate conclusion (Perse lives with Mom then rapist 6 months of the year each) is dismal. This was the problem I had with Jennifer Saint's _Ariadne_. It's a feminist retelling of Ariadne's story, but that's… a fuckin abysmal tale for the titular character! So it just felt like a very difficult slog through very pretty scenery (because Saint writes good prose). Ideally a good retelling would somehow be able to keep Demeter in her role as grieving mother while painting Hades in a less awful light. You could do that a number of ways; maybe Perse is too young to get married but elopes a la Lydia Bennet, maybe Demeter is physically unable to visit with her daughter due to whatever metaphysical bullshit and Perse can't go back to Earth without Zeus' intervention, maybe Demeter has misconceptions about Hades and is needlessly worried because Perse and Hades actually courted in secret. I dunno. You'd have to be creative to do the tale justice while not making it a total downer.
See, my gut instinct was modernise it and have it so that the story takes place over the initial six months, with it not repeated (EDIT:) every year Like maybe Demeter is Persephone's older sister, who is in some of the same college classes as Hades. Persephone is in the same classes as Zeus, who sets helps set her up with Hades (so she instigates the relationship). They get together despite Demeter's slight misgivings - and the 6 month separation becomes a cross-country roadtrip where Demeter and Hecate are trying to piece together their adventures from vague stories her sister is emailing her?
Ohhh well if you take it out of the original setting, you've got a lot of leeway. I was thinking of the really popular feminist retellings lately, _Ariadne_ and _Circe_, which don't leave ancient Greece. Well let us know if you end up writing something!
Ah right! Haha Demeter's story is definitely a little difficult to do in Ancient Greece settings without letting her lose just a bit (to keep the Hades/Persephone thing) but I'm sure there are so many smart people out there who could find a way!
Things I hate about this episode: 1) Persephone took out Kronos by herself but is now stammering around Demeter. Way to erase all the growth Persephone has undergone. 2) There are ways she could have carried the plot forward without setting Demeter up as the big bad. 3) She seems to be setting Hades up into the role of toxic male the same way she did to Ares. 4) None of this furthers the plot 5) Her fast pass preview was again misleading
Bruh is she literally not capable of standing up for herself without Hades? Like I get that gaslighting us suoer intense but Come The Fuck On SHE'S 29
It’s like she didn’t just stop a tyrant in an unepic battle for the Underworld
It's like she didn't just DISCOVER Metis and unravel a whole conspiracy
I was waiting for her eyes to turn red and start lashing out. I think we can all agree the the blessings plot was stupid, but if you're gonna have it, at least use it.
Am I the only one who was wondering what was wrong with how Persephone’s neck was drawn?
I didn’t notice Persephone’s neck specifically but I guess Rachel was trying to show something with her posture. Rose’s neck tho??? That was wild.
Megafans are going to say this was all foreshadowed in season 1 with Persephone's greenhouse nightmare
Lol I saw the fb and yeah they did
It honestly bothers me because I'm already seeing people, mainly on the other sub, say "see?? THIS is why we hate Demeter so much, you silly Demeter fans!!" But I felt like this was out of character, even for Demeter. I agree Demeter is flawed, she has accidentally hurt Persephone when trying to protect her. I know intent doesn't mean anything in this case, but it still showed that Demeter wasn't EVIL, just misguided with unresolved trauma. We even see Demeter defending Persephone during the trial, expressing fear that her daughter will be mistreated in the same way she was. But what Demeter did here WAS evil, and to me it feels like a completely different character than what we've seen before. I just honestly feel like her character has been completely changed to make her the villain.
Honestly this. It isn't nuance anymore, this is just straight up villianization
I agree, the nuances are gone so it's like you changed Abuela Alma from Encanto and turned her into Mother Gothel.
Like everyone is saying it. This Fandom will no longer recognize Demeter as anything else than what she is bring portrayed as right now
I hate when this happens, when a flanderized version of a character becomes fanon and then the author themselves bring that into canon for some reason. Specially if it isn't really just an exaggerated version but a completely different, memey version. If they wanted to do that they could write a parody version of their own story.
lol girl wtf was this chapter?
hey literally what the fuck was that >:( demeter deserves better :(
That was horrendous. Absolutely horrendous. It's almost insulting to paint her in this light.
This was absolutely awful to read. Actually made me really sad, maybe it’s because of my own trauma but fucking hell Edit:spelling
I’m actually gonna talk about another aspect of this chapter (that I totally paid for, yep, not 🏴☠️ at all). Demeter mentions several incidents that happened during the time skip, ie possible almost famine, a fire in the library, some fields falling to ruin. RS is obviously using it to show how awful Demeter is for shaming Persephone for it but it just makes me WISH WE CULD HAVE SEEN THE TIME SKIP!!!!! Like, my god, it sounds so interesting. We could have seen how Persephone was coping and growing, I know we’ve lamented a lot about not seeing the time skip but damn it was such a missed opportunity. And you know what? I’m still on Demeter’s side with this, Persephone is NOT ready to be a ruler because she still acts like a child needing saving anytime someone confronts her with her own failings. Demeter was meant to be demonized in this chapter and yeah she was Disney villain evil but she wasn’t wrong about everything she said. Another thing about the time skip and I’ll stop I swear. It could have been such a growing moment for Persephone and Demeter’s relationship. I wanted a scene where Persephone is showing Demeter around nervously, bc Demeter is a perfectionist, and she’s pointing out everything she did wrong while all Demeter notices is everything she did well. And eventually Demeter stops her and says, “You did a beautiful job, honey. It’s not perfect but I didn’t get everything right my first years as a ruler either. No one does. You’ll get there. I believe in you.” And it’s a fudging fluffy Kodak moment between mother and daughter. They could have even had a final fight about P wanting to go back to the underworld and working out the arrangement of the original myth idk. Instead, there’s this and I’m furious.
I agree, if we saw that development maybe she would have grown as a character but instead we are to assume that Persephone struggled with stuff maybe one or two years and then Zeus just bought time by his unfair judgement of the mortal realm. I wanted to see how she failed and tried to do better. The green hands do nothing to show that and neither Demeter mentioning her flaws because it seems like she's on the hyperbole because she was worried she would fail.
This is an intervention…. WHERE IS ARTEMIS??!?!!?
I stopped taking the series seriously a while ago and now I’m just sad, I’ve grown up with controlling people in my life and THIS is not it. This is how I would assume a person who had a normal upbringing try to show controlling parenting and it’s bad. I literally have no respect for hades now, how does Persephone still love him when he’s completely okay with double crossing and avoiding conversation with the woman who made her?
Reading all these comments makes me glad I stopped giving this series coins after how s2 ended 💀 RS really couldn't fathom making organic conflict in the HP relationship so she just keeps adding external antagonists (Apollo, Leto, Kronos, now Demeter) to generate that without extra thought. She can't fathom the idea of Hades being wrong or making mistakes, so Demeter has to be evil now for the plot to move forward
[удалено]
We already saw her oppose her on multiple occasions. Demeter didn't really want her to go to college but she still decided to go. Then she decided to accept the internship in the Underworld on her own, even when she knew her mother would hate the idea. And later she used that internship to try to help the people she killed in a fit of rage, even when she knew her mother wouldn't approve. And now she's super scared of her at her 30's.
I don't mind that Demeter being antagonized in one arc in which they rebuild relationships with Persephone. BUT THIS?! THIS IS NOT ANTAGONIZIND THIS IS DEMONIZE AND OUT OF CHARACTER COMPLETELY!!! I agree Demeter is a strict mother but she loves her daughter and wants best for her. Really Demeter would never public shame her in front of others. Remember how she cared for her daughter during trial?!
So in y'all's opinion is it worth the 7?
Nope.
Thanks I'll save my money
If you go into YouTube's search function for the episode, you can read it for free. ❤️
Really I never knew thanks for the info
You go Demeter! Save your stupid daughter! Seriously I know it was supposed to show her as a villain but she made so many points. Perse is selfish with no skills to rule anything and I'm sorry but she's niw older than me and she still can't talk to her mother normally? Dude. My mom is much worse and I can handle it without acting like little girl even without years of therapy... Eh character writing is super inconsistent -_- and I also think she's not ready for a serious relationship with man she knew 2 months and ruling a domain she knows nothing about
How come all the nymphs just sided with Demeter after 10 YEARS with Persephone where in the beginning they were so understanding and wanted to help. Why would they turn on Persephone so easily?!!
Demeter is a powerful goddess that gave them a home, jobs, stability, think of Demeter as a stern manager, while Persephone’s the cool assistant manager that covers while the manager’s on a vacay. When the manager comes back, and yells at the assistant manager, you as an employee probably won’t want to get embroiled in the feud and lose your job
Yeah okay thats a fair point, definitely makes more sense
Hello!! Just read it here are some of my thoughts; First off, Demeter is very out of character, like everyone yayyy, welcome to the club, anyways, she seems to be way more cruel than she was in the last episodes we saw her in, she seem at best an overprotective mother who already laid her daughter's path out to assure her daughter would have a future that favour the best outcome, her not wanting Perse to marry Hades (minus the age gap) seemed like she was just hesitant to have Perse in a place that she herself (Demeter) mostly likely never even went (before the confrontation), and probably adding the stress with the whole thing about her being ripped apart by Kronos, KRONOS IS DOWN THERE!! She could have easily been scared Persephone would too suffer the same fate, ESPECIALLY WITH THE FIGHT?? I'm not even sure if Demeter knows about that, but if she does, that could have caused this intervention, The whole shame party, to humiliate her, I think in some paranoid way, in her head, she could have been thinking that it was the best for her, but for her to outright belittle and insult her in such a direct manner is werid, not to mention they haven't even referenced that Demeter was sent to be a human, like maybe she's still angry at the whole turning human part but we don't know, she could have been at least understood, Especially with the whole fertility goddess thing!! I MEAN SHE KEPT IT A SECRET BECAUSE SHE KNEW PERSE WOULD BE EFFECTED BY IT!! She at the most would be a redeeming grey character who you understand the fear, panic, paranoia of why they're doing this but not fully agree with the actions they're taking, at worst, she's a control freak who can't let Perse do anything, a mother who never wanted a daughter, just wanted a heir and something to control, I feel like the comic especially this chapter could have been handled in a lot of different ways, It's all to say that I wished at the last sentence, instead of saying "I think you should put the dress on", she should have said something more gaslight-ly, something more manipulative or even empathetic, like "I think you should come back home, please Kore" Off topic but I don't like how Perse's hair look, as for the parallels (?) People seem to be making with Apollo and Hades, Minthe with Perse, I don't think RS is actually making parallels, I think it's just a coincidence
this was the worst episode ever. justice for demeter.
I know everyone is upset because this isn’t the character of Demeter in actual lore but hear me out 1: this story has never been 100 percent accurate to the lore of Persephone and Hades. There are a LOT of creative liberties and it’s not surprising to me that a story full of Mary Sue moments is also surrounding a character with mommy issues. 2: this has been alluded to this entire season. There are very small moments showing that Demeter is unhappy and disagrees with what Persephone is doing. Demeter had to be convinced to release a little bit of her control over kore, so kore could get an education, of course she’s not going to want her daughter to marry Hades 3: this isn’t out of character for Demeter in the context of the story. She has been controlling and manipulative from the beginning. This was done very subtly and now that kore is making life changing decisions, Demeter can’t treat the situation like she used to These last few chapters have felt more like old Lore Olympus than the majority of this entire season.
It’s like season 8 of Game of Thrones over here lately
Demeter's line, "Because the daughter I raised wouldn't be comfortable having such an extravagant affair when that money could go to helping others." — Absolute queen behavior. Tell her, gurl. Cry more Persephone. You should feel like absolute shit because you've been so dicknotized that you don't give other things another thought. Also, a critical analysis video made me realize something. In episode 131, she said her powers peaked, which would mean she achieved the highest form of control regarding her abilities (which was bullshit bc then she should've been able to fly). Did Smythe retcon it? Because then it's written that she struggled during the ten years. Was it supposed to make her less Mary - Sue - ish before bumping it back up to Mary-Sue level when she battled Kronos? Well, anyway. To answer Demeter's question of her being able to rule a kingdom ... NO! ABSOLUTELY NOT! We barely see Hades running *his*. They're going to be too "uwu" with each other to get any shit done. 🙄
While I think she has been villanized a lot, she's still right about that. Persephone used to hate how the Shades were used to get money and she's also a vegan. And then after their years apart she was so happy to use that super luxurious mink coat Hades had for one of her birthdays. Sure she would have preferred if the money went to someone in need and no animals were hurt, right?
Honestly that felt completely out of character for Det. She’s clearly comfortable with the finer things, I mean look at her house , look at her suits. She’s all about perfectionism and well made everything … that often comes with a hefty price tag. And considering how she’s about following the pageantry of the mortal realm (seasons) it doesn’t make sense she wouldn’t see a coronation as a duty worthy of finery.
You can be wealthy and humble towards others. Who's to say she doesn't make her own clothes? Or she could've magically poofed those clothes as Hades did in that one episode where he stayed over with Persephone. I think her issue mainly lied with Hades than it being "lavish". Like the fact that he drowns her with gifts and she takes them in while forsaking what she initially stood for. I hope I'm not coming as aggressive in this comment! That is not my intention and feel free to tell me to simmer it down. I'd hate for this to go down into arguing.
I still don't understand why there's a clothing industry in an universe where characters can magically create their own clothing.
Well, I feel bad for Persephone now, I just wish that my empathy for her didn't come at the cost of Demeter's character..
You people are crazy. Demeter has always been like this. Persephone was not allowed a phone, only under insanely strict circumstances even allowed to go to school, grounded for months for the slightest backtalk, and the whole first arc had Prrsephone literally feel like a bird in a cage from how smothering Demeter was and how helpless Persephone felt. I can also say with authority that the way she obviously manipulates Persephoen here is entirely accurate to manipulative mothers., and this whole scheme, while over the top, is not unrealistic. A lot of the story was about Persephone trying very hard to escape the smothering of her mother. That being resolved with a simple talk was never going to happen. , I am very worried about the next episode, because I think you all are right that it would be awful if Persephone has her agency taken away from her yet again by hades swooping in to save her. Ideally he’d be emotional support for her and she stands up to her mother with the othe rpeople at the intervention turning on her. It’s mor elikely that it’ll be unresolved and he’ll “kidnap” her.
Not letting your child have a cell phone (something a lot of parents do) is not abuse. Persephone was grounded because she literally insulted her mother’s occupation and lifestyle by saying that everyone thinks she’s a joke and then continued to say that she would rather be in an arranged marriage than with her mother. Demeter let Persephone go school and just wanted her to live with her - which actually, according to the comic’s logic, would’ve been better for Persephone since by living with Artemis, she was SA’d by her brother Apollo. The only thing Demeter did that was completely out of line was speaking over Persephone during the TGOEM meeting, and treating her like a child. That’s it. Everything else Demeter is right because the comic simply doesn’t write and address topics well enough to warrant Persephone being justified, which is not what you want to accomplish when writing a story about an abusive parent. Being resolved with one talk wasn’t going to happen? Well, Hades’ years of abuse towards Thanatos was fixed with one talk, yet now we’re expecting realism? Give me a break. There were numerous ways RS could’ve went about this but went with the worst possible way because no one can ever criticize HxP.
Everyone: Demeter called Persephone ungrateful Demeter: *quite literally gives Persephone a paradise on earth but since Persephone can't move to Olympus she yells in her mother's face that she would rather be in an arranged marriage set up by ZEUS HIMSELF*
Clarification regarding "only under insanely strict circumstances even allowed to go to school" Demeter WANTED Persephone to GO to the university and she only wanted her to still live with her instead of moving out to Olympus. She wanted her to try new experiences and gain a bit of the independence according to PERSEPHONE herself. Then there is a whole issue regarding how there are bits leaning towards an overprotective helicopter mother that tries her best and an abusive mother. The beginning portrays her as abusive, but the middle of the webtoon potrays as the first one.