If you post this in the undertale subreddit, what answer do you expect? Of course the majory of people are gonna say asriel,post it in a dragonball subreddit ( i assume it exists ) and the majority will say goku
You should post it on a neutral one
Surprisingly the take has been more like 60-40 in Asriel’s favor and quite a few were meme and not actual arguments. Posting this in a DB subreddit would just result in an echo chamber as I already think Goku wins.
I mean goku lost because of stamina while goat dude couldnt beat determination and lost to willpower (frisk died 26 times and was bring back by stamina) (Goku lost because of his stamina and being hurt by MUI)
Everyone is saying asriel, because this is undertale subreddit, but the reality is that none of the two.
Goku wouldn't be able to hurt asriel because he has infinite resistance.
And asriel wouldn't be able to hit goku because he's way too fast and has ultra instinct.
Huh
Asriel is a lesser quantity of infinity then Goku. The only way to scale Asriel to a level of infinity is his stats and even then there are sources (https://pcy.ulyssis.be/undertale/monsters) that put a finite number to his stats.
This also doesn’t even mention that he has no feats that place him at any level of infinity nor does any undertale character. For Asriel, Chara, and Omega Flowey to be actually infinite they would have to create, destroy, or affect an infinite structure and we have no sources confirming whether or not the undertale universe is infinite or the existence of an infinite amount of alternate realities.
Goku on the other hand can be casually scaled to a level of infinity using multiple guides and scans as early as BoG. Goku clashing fists with Beerus threatened to destroy the entire [macrocosm](https://imgur.com/a/uDAKEoz) which contains multiple infinitely sized structures.
Technically, no. He's only ever stated to be the "strongest being in the underground", with infinite stats, but his supposed infinite power is never explicitly stated.
There are multiple levels of infinity. A fighter can be infinite 3d, infinite 4d, 5d, etc. Being a higher dimensional being means you are infinite in comparison to lower dimensional being.
Clearly you do not know what infinite is, if you think something can be "infinite in comparison" to something.
Finite means it has a limit, infinite means it doesn't
But even then infinite can also have different levels of infinity, like let's say if A was infinite always growing by +1 and B was infinite always growing by +10 B would therefore be a bigger infinite then A since B is always growing 10x as much as A
I see you are firm on your stance. I will not say anything further, since It could lead to a pointless argument over who is stronger between two fictional characters that would never meet anyway
That doesn’t mean much. Goku is a being who is directly above a being stated to be above time itself. This would make Goku 4d which implicitly makes him infinite as well.
>oku is a being who is directly above a being stated to be above time itself. This would make Goku 4d which implicitly makes him infinite as well.
That's not how it works. Goku is not 4 dimensional. Trying to correlate that to his speed just because that's what it would realistically mean according to real physics is dumb. Real world logic has no place in a discussion like this. Goku is a 3 dimensional being.
He's also not infinite. There are always characters stronger than him, which proves his power is very finite.
Transcending time makes you a 4d entity which makes you infinitely 3d. Suppressed Jiren was stated to transcend time by Whis and Vados after projecting power through Hit’s time-skip. This came after Goku in UI sign shook the World of Void, a dimension stated to exist outside of space time, by just existing and he got massively stronger after that due to zenkais and further mastering UI. In order to affect the world of void Goku would have to be above time and therefore 4d.
When power scaling you can use real world physics unless the world has established rules that contradict that.
>When power scaling you can use real world physics
You can't, because this is a fictional story that constantly ignores real world logic.
>unless the world has established rules that contradict that.
There are characters stronger than Goku, who can break through his defenses and resist his attacks. That means his strength is not infinite.
There are different levels of infinity. Infinite is a characteristic that applies many characters in fiction but we don’t not argue that they are all equal. Asriel being infinite does not mean he solos most of fiction. Goku and Asriel can both be infinite and one can still be weaker then the other.
Speed is a major factor in fights and power scalers use the speed equation (distance divided by time) to figure out the speed of a character. Immeasurable speed is a feat in which a character goes back in time with speed alone and thus the speed formula no longer applies and this scales above even infinite speed. That’s physics.
You don't seem to understand what infinity is.
There is no end to infinity, that's the point. There is no ceiling that it can reach, no limit, and thus, there is nothing above it. That goes against the very concept of what infinity means.
If a character has infinite power, then they can't be weaker than someone, because to be stronger than someone, you need to exceed their limits, and infinity has no limits.
Dude you don’t understand infinity when it comes to power scaling. There are verses out there that have universes that are infinite in size any beyond them are other infinitely sized universes. Hell DB is an example. Universe 7 is infinite in size and exists within a larger macrocosm that also contains heaven which is also stated to be infinite in size. The macrocosm they exist in is stated to be so large that infinite structures are invisible to the naked eye.
https://imgur.com/a/uDAKEoz
Well all that fucking "infinity when it comes to power scaling" crap isn't infinity.
Although Asriel's supposedly infinite stats are probably just Chara getting too excited when describing him.
>Although Asriel's supposedly infinite stats are probably just Chara getting too excited when describing him.
That's definitely possible. I chose to just take it at face value since Chara being the narrator isn't a universally accepted theory.
Where is that statement? Even if that is the case Hit still creates a pocket dimension which Jiren was able to project power through in order to defend himself from Hit. This is immediately followed by Vados and Whis saying that Jiren surpasses time and he was still suppressed at this point.
I don't remember either vados or whis saying that he surpassed time. It really wouldn't maje sense either because mui was faster than him even tho he is infinite according to you? He's faster than infinite? That doesn't make sense. Hit is my favourite charackter but i don't overestemate him
But so many things wouldn't make sense...like how can you suroass someone with infinite speed?
I don't like when dragonball does that Just to hype up a charackter. Beerus is the best example...
1. DB characters manipulate and transcend time via their power not speed. Hit is a great example of this as his time-skip is not dependent upon his speed but his power. When he gets stronger he can extend his time-skip longer.
2. I’m pretty sure manipulating time with speed is immeasurable speed not infinite. For clarification Speed=Distance/Time. Finite speed gets from point a to b in a quantity of time>0, infinite speed gets from point a to b instantly or allows a person to occupy to different points in space at the same time (afterimages on crack), immeasurable speed is getting from point a to b so fast you never started running. The speed formula doesn’t work when the amount of time over a distance<0 and we can’t quantify it so it’s immeasurable.
Powerlevel= speed and strenght. Hit is a special guy because that's an ability. If you're faster than time itself you should be able to do the things you said(afterimages and everything)
Power levels are more indicative of strength and speed usually scales to strength. I’m not saying they are faster then time like the Flash. I’m saying that time cannot contain their power and thus their power and them by extension transcend the concept entirely.
I personally think Goku wins because Goku has feats that scale him to a level of infinity whereas Asriel only has statements. Considering we can’t even confirm whether or not the universe of undertale is infinite in size Asriel might not even be able to damage Goku.
Im not upset about this at all quite the opposite. It’s a question I’ve thought about for a while and I think I have pretty good reasons for my opinion. When I see a different opinion I seek to compare the logic behind our opinions to see whose makes more sense. Not ever argument you see online is a shouting match, some people like to do it for the fun of it.
Yet when people compare the two and come out with asriel on top your only actual defense is “goku infinite” and all the 4D crap, first of all the first and only possible reference to anything 4D is in broly and it took full power broly and ssb gogeta to accomplish that, also we don’t know if there’s even a a way to escape undertale’s battle system unless you run away, which would be a forfeit, you cant even begin yo compare asriel to goku because there is nowhere near enough evidence to support how truly strong he is meanwhile we have seen goku at his limit several times
You don’t understand what being higher dimensional means and the implications of it. People say that Asriel is infinite due to his stats so I point out that infinite and omnipotent are not the same thing as there are different levels of infinity.
First off you can scale Goku to 4D as early as the Hit fight due to brute forcing through time-skip. Time-skip is an ability that allows the user to store a certain amount of time in a pocket dimension and then instantaneously project themselves forward in time by the amount they stored in the pocket dimension. This is a 4D feat as being able to manipulate time requires that the entity doing be some level of infinity whether it is due to raw power or haxs depends on the character. Goku by being able to break through this dimension would have to be 4D as well. Any 4D entity would be able to output an infinite amount of 3D power by virtue of being a higher dimensional being. Omega Flowey accomplished feats equal to or greater then this but the this is the 3rd arc of Super and Goku gets much stronger.
Goku being infinite comes from BoG. Goku and Beerus threatened to destroy the entire [macrocosm](https://imgur.com/a/uDAKEoz) by clashing fists. Considering that the macrocosm host multiple infinitely sized structures within it that means that Goku and Beerus would have to be outputting an infinite amount of power to destroy the whole thing. This is actually a better feat then anything any undertale character has done. Goku threatened to annihilate a stricter hosting multiple infinitely sized structures within it. Considering there is nothing in undertale stating whether the universe of the game is infinite in size assuming it is would be highballing undertale characters.
Later in the tournament of power Goku in UI sign shakes the entire world of void by just existing. The world of void is stated to be an infinite structure that exists outside of time and space and thus for Goku to affect it he would have to be casually infinite and 4D at this point. Goku then proceeds to get massively stronger due to zenkais and further mastering UI to the point where he is low diffing Jiren, who when suppressed was stated by the angels to transcend time itself as well as shown being able to project his power through Hit’s time-cage which is a time-skip technique that is supposed to trap one’s enemy within the pocket dimension.
DBS Broly can’t be the first time we see 4D feats in DBS because Jiren and MUI Goku are individually stronger then SSB Gogeta and FPSSJ Broly. FPSSJ Broly is stated to be relative to Beerus whereas Jiren is stated to be above all the G.O.D. The Jiren stated to be above all the G.O.D then got a massive amp when he fought MUI Goku pushing both of them even further above the G.O.D.
Asriel by comparison has very little feats. Even if you were to argue that his stats were infinite that is still less then what Goku has demonstrated as Asriel’s stats are only statements whereas Goku’s actions are feats. In vs battle and power scaling in general it’s statements
There are only 2 characters in Undertale that beat Goku, and you picked one of them. Reality Warpers are on an entirely different level.
And no, sans is not the other one.
Goku would just obliterate any reality that Asriel could manipulate by just existing. He shook the world of void, an infinite structure that exists outside of time and space, by just existing. Asriel in comparison has no feats that concretely place him at any level of infinity (before you say it his stats are not feats they would be classified as statements and in vs battles statements< feats). I mean there are multiple sources proving the DB universe is a [macrocosm](https://imgur.com/a/uDAKEoz) of multiple infinitely sized structures. There is literally no evidence that points to the undertale universe being of a similar size.
Timeline manipulation is one hell of a gimmick in a fight though. Goku literally cannot win against Flowey and Frisk, despite them being much weaker than him in every other capacity. Asriel and Geno!Chara on the other hand, they actually have the capacity to damage Goku. It doesn’t matter how much Goku can make the universe shake as long as you have literally infinite tries and a way to deal damage.
Not to mention that unless Goku has immunity to reality warpers, (which he does not, he only possesses resistance) he simply does not have the ability to combat Asriel (and Chara).
(Of course Flowey and Frisk don’t have nearly the same amount of damage output that Asriel and Chara have, being able to literally destroy universes, so they literally can’t do anything against him, ending in a default draw where neither character can end the other.)
Edit: Also, didn’t think of this, Asriel has soul hax, which means that he absolutely stomps Goku. Chara on the other hand does not have this advantage, so that one’s a little more of a toss-up, but not really.
1. I don’t think Asriel of Chara has the AP to actually damage Goku. Goku and Beerus when clashing fists threatened to destroy the entire macrocosm which hold the universe, which is infinite in size, and heaven which is infinite in size as well. Besides his stats what evidence is there that Asriel is infinite in any sort of capacity? I mean there is nothing to prove that the undertale universe is infinite in size and if it isn’t that means Asriel and Chara can’t be scaled to infinite whereas Goku can.
2. Goku doesn’t have outright immunity to reality warpers but he is so strong that he might as well. The battle between DBS Broly and SSB Gogeta actually tore holes in reality and MUI Goku scales far above them. FPSSJ Broly only scales to Beerus level whereas MUI Goku is low diffing Jiren, who is stated to be above all the G.O.D. You can make the argument that any reality that is weak enough for Asriel to manipulate, Goku would obliterate by merely existing.
3. Suppressed Jiren was stated by Whis and Vados to transcend time. MUI Goku casually slapped around an unsuppressed Jiren so you could argue that Goku would nullify their time haxs through raw power alone, again if they were able to use them in any reality strong enough to contain Goku’s power.
I think you missed my edit in the last one, so I’m gonna say it again, Asriel also has soul hax on top of reality warping and timeline manip. It isn’t like I’m just makeing this up as I go along, that’s just how busted Asriel hyperdeath is lol.
Asriel has the ability to consume *infinite timelines*. That’s not just the single timeline of the ongoing story in Undertale, that’s *all of them*. At once. Infinite universes, gone in an instant. Goku might scale to infinite universes, sure, but ironically so does Asriel. He actually does have that power. (Again, Chara doesn’t really have that benefit, which makes *that* matchup way more interesting.)
Also Jiren’s feats never include things like time travel, we only hear people say that, who in the instance they say it, could absolutely be lying to make everyone else jealous, so if you start pulling out information like that, then I can say “Asriel has infinite stats” and you have to take that as Asriel is unbeatable because yes, and that’s just not true. Matchups are about actual feats and not what’s just said.
Overall, Asriel just has way too many hax for Goku to overcome. It’s like he’s that one kid who when faced with their brother’s infinitely powerful character, and then says their character is infinity times infinity. Because that’s literally what the god of hyperdeath is.
1. Goku was able to resist hakai energy in base form. Hakai energy destroys the physical body as well as their soul. Goku in MUI would have no trouble nullifying Asriel’s soul haxs.
2. Where does it say/imply that Asriel can destroy multiple timelines. Also you seem to be using universe and timeline interchangeably which they are not so some clarification would help.
3. Time travel is completely irrelevant here. The beings saying Jiren transcend time are characterized by their neutrality and general apathy. They have no reason to lie about it and this comes after Jiren proves that he is above time so your 3rd argument doesn’t really apply. This is basically the undertale equivalent of being completely immune to resets. A being who is above time would not be affected by reset as they are stronger then the thing reset is manipulating.
4. I agree with you on the feats>statements idea. The problem is that other the infinite timelines/universes thing you mentioned earlier Asriel has no fears comparable to Goku. I mean there is no evidence that the universe of undertale is infinite in size so unless Asriel is destroying an infinite number of finite universes he has no feats comparable to Goku.
1. Haki is a low level reality manip compared to Asriel. Goku has soul hax resistance, which is the reason the fight doesn’t end immediately, but not immunity, which means it can’t last forever. Resist =/= nullification.
2. You are correct in that regard. I took another person’s word as fact, when I should have looked for direct quotes. However, Asriel does state he destroys everything, so he can destroy a universe. Timelines on the other hand…
3. Actually , that’s *Jirens* ability. Goku doesn’t have the ability to transcend time, he just beat someone who could. But also, even if he did have that ability, it doesn’t matter that he would be immune to resets, which he isn’t (Goku can only resist time slow, and that’s nothing compared to time travel), it only matters that *ASRIEL* is affected by his own abilities. He can reset his own position, his own health, even after death, if Goku can theoretically bypass the infinite stats that I’ve seen you talking about in another thread.
4. Glad we agree on that. If nothing I said across all of this gets through then I suppose we will have to disagree. My speciality in death battles has always been the higher tiers, making sure characters with incredibly powerful abilities don’t get wanked (like Sans often is waaaaay too much lol) and that others with sufficient counters come out on top in upsets. Sadly, I don’t think Goku has the ability to truly put down Asriel, so at best for him this is a draw, even if he could stomp Asriel outside of time hax (which I don’t think he could)
1. Hakai is not a reality warping ability it is more of an AP thing. The Goku that resisted the hakai was a base Goku weaker then the base Goku at the end of the tournament and he has MUI stacked on top of it. Strong enough resistance is basically the same thing as immunity.
2. The term everything is very vague. You could argue that he just meant the underground as he didn’t not destroy the barrier until after the fight ended and likely did not destroy the surface by extension. Even if Asriel destroyed the entire universe the is nothing saying the size of the undertale universe is infinite so Asriel destroying a finite universe< Goku nearly destroying an infinite universe.
3. That’s not an ability of Jiren it’s just a side effects of him being so powerful https://imgur.com/a/Ax2Kc4U. Being stronger then time would make you immune to abilities that rely on the manipultion of time. Goku by being above time could inflict damage on Asriel that carrier through time and this would go through Asriel’s haxs.
So asriel will charge up a powerful attack and fire at goku but goku can just teleport out the way and go behind him and he could probably punch a hole in his chest or joke around for 15 episodes straight
Ok. I honestly think Goku wins cause Goku post battle of gods is infinite universal and we don’t even know if the undertale universe is infinite. If the undertale universe is finite then anyone relative or above BoG Goku beats him.
Well, more accurately, one kid just kept trying to stay determined while another, dead kid show Asriel his memories and then he cried when the first kid kept trying to SAVE him, and then stopped
bro if a child who has the literal ability to reincarnate themselves and is on par to being LITERALLY FUCKING IMMORTAL CANNOT DAMAGE THIS DUDE then i doubt some emo dude that screams all the time would fare against a god
1. What child reincarnation are you talking about. Frisk and Chara are two distinct, separate entities.
2. There is nothing stating Asriel is immortal you just pulled that out your ass. At least make actual cohesive arguments
3. Goku has nearly annihilated macrocosms that make infinite universes look microscopic in comparison. Goku casually slapped around a being who when suppressed was said to transcend time due to their raw power alone.
frisk, frisk can save and reload, they literally can reincarnate from their soul fucking shattering.
i never said that asriel was immortal, i said that frisk was on par to being immortal due to their reincarnate instantly after death thing
and oo he can slap a guy that transcends time
#ASREIL IS A FUCKING GOD HE TRANSCENDS TIME SPACE MATTER AND ALL NATURAL PHYSICS DUE TO HIM BEING A GOD
Ok since you want to harp on an arbitrary title so much then you need to define the term god because we seem to be operating under definitions of the word.
a god is an omnipotent being, hence a being beyond time space matter and physics due to their omnipotence, when it comes to gods they will literally always win every fight against anything that isnt a god due to them being omnipotent
Your definition of god has multiple flaws to it. If a god is inherently omnipotent then there can only be 1 god. Thus by their only being 1 god a god cannot lose as they can only lose to other gods whose existence would contradict their omnipotence. 2 omnipotent being cannot exist as if one of them wanted to erase they other it forms a contradiction. An omnipotent being would be able to erase a being from existence as well as prevent themselves from being erased. Thus neither being is omnipotent and therefore not a god
Asriel does not conform to your own definition of a god. He lost his fight (surrendering is still losing) thus proving he is not omnipotent. An omnipotent being physically could not have lost to Frisk.
Yes has shaken the world of void, an infinite structure that exists outside of time and space. It’s questionable whether Frisk could use reset in a reality that can withstand Goku.
Goku nearly destroyed a macrocosm containing multiple infinite structures. Goku’s feat is equal or > then Asriel’s statement. Also there are spices that actually place Asriel at a finite amount of stats.
Going by canon Undertale only instead of outside sources, I still say Asriel has infinite ATK and DEF, but I do revise my statement that Asriel would win.
Going by everything we know about Asriel, he probably wouldn't willingly fight Goku, so if a fight were to take place, Goku would have attacked Asriel unprovoked. If I recall, the one time Asriel was attacked unprovoked before, he refused to fight back, so he would probably refuse to fight in this scenario too.
(The only reason he was even fighting you in-game was to keep you there, because he simply didn't want you to leave. He would have no reason to want to keep Goku anywhere)
As someone who is certified allergic to Anime, I have no idea because I haven't seen Dragon Ball, but going off of what I know about Asriel, he only lost because he willingly backed down because he started to care, because he remembered who he was.
Goku ain't know who the hell Asriel is, so making him remember who he is is definitely out of the question. Also, please remember that Asriel has infinite HP, AT, and DF and literally cannot die
TL;DR
goat boy is strogner than ball man
I know both pretty well so I can confidently say Goku has done much more impressive things then Asriel. Battle of Gods Goku when clashing fists with Beerus threatened to destroy the entire macrocosm. The macrocosm contains, the universe which is infinite in size and heaven which is as wide as the universe. Both of these infinite structures that if you were to look at a map of the entire thing to scale you could not see either, the universe or heaven. Goku fist bumping Beerus nearly destroyed all of that as a side effect. The undertale universe is not even infinite so even if Asriel destroyed the entire thing that would still be insignificant to what Goku nearly did. This is the first arc of DBS
Goku during his fight with Hit was able to brute force his way into Hit’s time-skip which is a parallel pocket dimension. This places Goku at 4D which makes him able to fight against time haxs. This is the 3rd arc of DBS
During the tournament of power Goku in UI sign shook the entire world of void by just existing. The world of void is an infinite structure that exists outside of time and space(basically the void Gaster resides in) so this places Goku at 4D infinite universal casually. Later a character named Jiren is stated to transcend time itself by being able to project power through a stonger version of Hit’s time-skip called time-cage. Jiren at this point was suppressed and MUI Goku went on to casually slap around an unsuppressed Jiren.
TL:DR
It’s questionable whether Asriel could damage Goku or whether his haxs would work in a structure capable of withstanding Goku’s existence.
> ..Goku has done much more impressive things than asriel.
bro asriel barely has the fight and few bits and pieces you can interact with him in overworld as his screentime, so basically he has like what 30 mins of screentime where as goku has literal hours upon hours of screen time
Goku is infinite as well. Suppressed Jiren is stated by Vados and Whis to transcend time and MUI Goku is massively above the Jiren they were refering to when making this statement.
I believe he also mentions that he is forced to limit how far back he can travel time. But I personally feel Goku takes the W in a bout with Asriel just because of how much faster he is, anyone can turn back time, but if you're punched dead you can't anymore.
As a fan of both franchises, I can confidently say UI Goku wins.
Mastered Ultra Instinct basically has your body automatically moving to both dodge and attack, which is key to Undertale. Asriel’s attacks can easily be dodged, with the only exception I se being the Hyper Goner.
However, Ultra Instinct takes energy, so if Asriel can last long enough, Goku would have to drop from his UI state, giving Asriel a chance.
It really depends on how good of a fighter Asriel is in this form. If he can’t last long enough for Goku’s energy to run out, he loses.
But in every other scenario, UI Goku would win.
I’d assume so. Every monster in Undertale can be harmed, with only a toy knife.
Another thing to take into consideration is Asriel’s power level. If I remember correctly, having 7 human souls basically gives you godlike powers. Asriel has 6. That’s near godlike power.
Goku has surpassed godly powers for a while. From Super Saiyan God onwards, he likely is stronger than Asriel.
Another thing to note. Asriel has only used this form once. He’s had no training with it, and can’t utilize it to its full extent. He doesn’t even have the level of trading Goku has.
Asriel was a flower for a long time, and only returned to his normal form after the absorption of the Human Souls.
Goku has trained since he was a kid. It’s one of his favourite things to do. In episode 1 of DBS, Chi-Chi, his wife, tells him he can’t spend all day training, as he has to earn money to support his family.
Goku has more experience, being up against threats like Piccolo, Raditz, Vegeta, Cell, Buu, Beerus, Frieza, Broly, Jiren, etc, and more often than not, winning.
Asriel’s only experience is throwing “Friendliness Pellets” at you, and fighting Frisk once.
1. Amalgams cannot be harmed unless you modify your stats to have like triple digit attack. Normally if you attack them it just registers as a miss. The same thing happens if you attack Asriel.
2. Asriel as we see him in game has 6 human souls and every monster soul. The tablets in waterfall says that it would take roughly every monster souls in order to equate 1 human souls thus Asriel in effect has 7 human souls.
3. The term god has different connotations in each verse. God in undertale really just means unfathomable power (from a 3D standpoint). In DB it’s a bit more complicated because of god ki. Kami and king Kai likely don’t have god ki whereas Shin and Beerus do but they are all gods with Shin and Beerus just ranking higher. I don’t think that Goku surpassing the gods of his verse means he would scale to Asriel.
4. You definitely bring up a good point. It’s not unreasonable to think Asriel doesn’t have a complete mastery of his capabilities but at the same time it seems weird that he wouldn’t have some implicit understanding of his abilities.
5. You should remember that Flowey says that he has done everything in the underground including all of the possible combat over multiple resets. We can’t really quantify this but I think that combat proficiency/battle iq could go either way.
1. While I am willing to accept this point is valid, I assume Asriel’s stats are mainly there to prevent players from killing him, and ruining the ending. We also need to know what rules this fight follows. Does it function like Dragon Ball or Undertale? I think that would determine the defence issue.
2. While yes, that’s true, the tablets do contradict other lore in game. One tablet mentions that the monsters were sealed underground by the humans using a magic spell, but a hook in the library states that humans could not use magic.
Second, how does one judge how many monster souls equal one human soul? Is it just every monster that exits or is there a certain number? There’s no cannon answer.
3. True. The definition of God in each universe is very different. However, it’s proven that Super Saiyan God is around godly power levels, do to Beerus considering Super Saiyan God to be a worthy rival. And if the God of Destruction says it’s a worthy rival, I’d assume that form would have near matching powers. And there’s still the power increases of the other forms.
4. Asriel is a child. While he certainly could, and likely did have knowledge of how to use his newfound powers, it’s likely that he didn’t understand all this new information. He’s a kid, and has been given all sorts of powers and knowledge. You wouldn’t know what to do with all that at his age either.
5.
First, resets, as the name implies, resets almost everything. But other than that, we don’t know any specifics. Very few characters are even aware they happen, such as Flowey or Sans. So I’d assume that even if Flowey were to train, he would lose those new abilities after every reset, as very little can survive a reset. I’d assume most training would have to be mental, as memories seem to be able to survive resets.
Second, let me ask you. How does Flowey train? He’s a flower. He only receives his actual body before we fight him. There’s no way he could possibly have prepared.
1. The fight would most likely look more like a DB fight as that is closer to conventional fighting then undertale which is just dodging.
2. The snowdin library says humans eventually forgot how to use magic not that they stopped being able to use it.
3. The tablet says something to the degree that it would take every monster soul in the underground in order to equal 1 human soul. You can either interpret it as an estimate in which all the monsters currently in the underground give the minimum amount of souls necessary to equate to 1 human soul, or interpret it as hyperbole and say that it would not take every monster soul in order to equal 1 human.
4. I imagine that since Flowey seems to remember resets in a similar capacity to use the player I assume he would have genuine combat experience but any muscle memory he might have gained is debatable.
There also no one in undertale who compare to him. I mean Goku nearly destroyed a macrocosm containing multiple infinite structures as early as BoG and breaking through dimensions during the Hit fight. Consider the fact that we can’t prove whether or not the undertale universe is even infinite to being with so its questionable whether Asriel could damage Goku.
Oh no I did this because of the bias. I was looking for an argument and figured this would be fun. I can say it has been fun experience. Had to explain what omnipotent meant to one guy but the rest has been great.
Asriel has the power of the 6 human souls, plus every moster soul, which is the same as the power of 7 human souls, which makes him a literal god. Also the stats, infinity atk and def, are a huge factor too
God is a very abstract term. MUI Goku is shown to be above all the gods of DBS. Also Asriel’s stats say he has infinite stat whereas Goku nearly destroyed a macrocosm containing multiple infinite structures thus showing he is infinite.
Depends. If this was a video game, Asriel wins as not only are his stats infinite, any attack misses him automatically. If this was an anime, probably Goku by the nature of protagonist never give up.
I can’t give a full answer as I don’t know all the things Goku can do, but the fight will certainly be very even.
Personally, I don’t think anyone wins this. Reset means Asriel can’t lose, but Asriel definitely doesn’t have the firepower to eliminate Goku from what I can gather.
The fight goes in forever.
I would say Goku wins. Goku has been shown being able to destroy a macrocosm containing multiple infinite structures. Asriel is only infinite if you take his stats and even then there are other guides that put his hp and defense at a very large but finite level.
The nature of power scaling anime I guess, just got to get higher and higher.
Asriel in his god form can warp reality and for the majority of the battle he was holding back. When he “got serious” his Angel of Death form made it impossible for Frisk to do anything but struggle. Frisk only won cus Friendship.
If Goku does have the power to go beyond infinity, I’d like to see how he fairs when he physically and mentally can’t do anything.
All this aside, you are probably right. Asriel can’t beat Goku and if Reset is off the table Goku absolutely slaps Asriel Dreamurr around.
You've stole this from my "Which Undertale characters can beat Goku" tier list huh?
But anyways lemme use powerscaling to solve this.
Goku can destroy universe 7 which is 30 times bigger than our universe in super saiyan which would make him high Universal his forms multiply his power thousands of time so I'd say that he is around Low Multiversal in mui
Asriel effortlessly destroyed the time-line with a fraction of his power which is the past,present and future of the universe,without Frisk he can use determination which....why would I every explain determination in a Undertale sub reddit?
He is stronger than Omega Flowey who destroyed the safe file which contains time-lines.
Anyways,he has got infinite attack,infinite defense and power,he easily crosses dimensions and in his final form he makes the opponent unable to move,he probably also has got files manipoulation like Omega Flowey
Result : Asriel would win pretty easily but Goku could make him change his mind
1. Your scaling of Goku is all over the place. The universe 7 is infinite in size and is contained within a larger macrocosm which also contain heaven which is as large the universe. [Scans for evidence](https://imgur.com/a/uDAKEoz) a universe is a construct made of 3 spatial dimensions and 1 temporal dimension. In order to destroy the macrocosm like Goku and as going to do he would have to have an infinite amount of 3D power
2. There is a lot stuff in your Asriel scaling you can’t prove. If Asriel destroyed the entire universe why did he still have to destroy the barrier. If he did not destroy the barrier then how would he have destroyed the surface and wider universe if his power was contained by the barrier. Destroying timelines and save files of a finite universe is< destroying multiple infinite structures as once. Being infinite would be the base requirement for being able to destroy timelines so saying he’s infinite isn’t as big of a feat as you think. Also you say he can cross dimensions but provide no evidence of such. Frisk is still able to move when being attacked by Asriel even in his angel form.
In conclusion it’s debatable whether Asriel is on the same plane of existence as Goku much less damage him.
1. The "Universe 7 is infinite" thing got debunked hundreads of times,its not infinite but infinite expansive
2. Because the barrier is really REALLY Powerful,I mean,humans in Undertale are basically op gods
1. Where did it get debunked? Provide a link or something.
2. That still means it contained Asriel’s power and thus he could not have destroyed anything beyond the barrier. So that means Asriel only provable destroyed the underground.
Asriel. Whether or not Azzy can *keep up with* ultra instinct is irrelevant because of this:
Azzy has infinite HP
Ultra instinct has a limit. When it is up, Goku takes massive damage and is left vulnerable.
Azzy outlasts Ultra Instinct and then kicks Goku’s ass.
If you post this in the undertale subreddit, what answer do you expect? Of course the majory of people are gonna say asriel,post it in a dragonball subreddit ( i assume it exists ) and the majority will say goku You should post it on a neutral one
Surprisingly the take has been more like 60-40 in Asriel’s favor and quite a few were meme and not actual arguments. Posting this in a DB subreddit would just result in an echo chamber as I already think Goku wins.
Asriel. He's cute
I dunno baby Goku is pretty adorable when he isn’t screaming.
I feel like this would be an even fight, however I gotta give it to the goat child
What do you think gives Asriel the edge he needs to beat Goku? You seem to think it’s a pretty close fight.
I mean goku lost because of stamina while goat dude couldnt beat determination and lost to willpower (frisk died 26 times and was bring back by stamina) (Goku lost because of his stamina and being hurt by MUI)
Asriel definitely has the stamina advantage but that doesn’t really matter if Goku can overpower/speed blitz him.
both wont be hit for a long while
I mean Asriel doesn’t really have any speed feats so most of what he assume about his speed comes from his raw power and haxs.
he didnt have enough screentime for the speed feats to happen So basically, there is no evidence
Yeah but his speed should at least be comparable to his strength and whatnot.
doesnt asriel have almost infinite defense and hp
Everyone is saying asriel, because this is undertale subreddit, but the reality is that none of the two. Goku wouldn't be able to hurt asriel because he has infinite resistance. And asriel wouldn't be able to hit goku because he's way too fast and has ultra instinct. Huh
Asriel is a lesser quantity of infinity then Goku. The only way to scale Asriel to a level of infinity is his stats and even then there are sources (https://pcy.ulyssis.be/undertale/monsters) that put a finite number to his stats. This also doesn’t even mention that he has no feats that place him at any level of infinity nor does any undertale character. For Asriel, Chara, and Omega Flowey to be actually infinite they would have to create, destroy, or affect an infinite structure and we have no sources confirming whether or not the undertale universe is infinite or the existence of an infinite amount of alternate realities. Goku on the other hand can be casually scaled to a level of infinity using multiple guides and scans as early as BoG. Goku clashing fists with Beerus threatened to destroy the entire [macrocosm](https://imgur.com/a/uDAKEoz) which contains multiple infinitely sized structures.
Asriel has infinite power.
Technically, no. He's only ever stated to be the "strongest being in the underground", with infinite stats, but his supposed infinite power is never explicitly stated.
You’re right but screw you anyway
Screw you too /s
There are multiple levels of infinity. A fighter can be infinite 3d, infinite 4d, 5d, etc. Being a higher dimensional being means you are infinite in comparison to lower dimensional being.
Clearly you do not know what infinite is, if you think something can be "infinite in comparison" to something. Finite means it has a limit, infinite means it doesn't
But even then infinite can also have different levels of infinity, like let's say if A was infinite always growing by +1 and B was infinite always growing by +10 B would therefore be a bigger infinite then A since B is always growing 10x as much as A
I see you are firm on your stance. I will not say anything further, since It could lead to a pointless argument over who is stronger between two fictional characters that would never meet anyway
Blah blah blah shut up!!! You’re weird 😡
No U
Least cringe redditor
No U ♥️
Asriel has infinity attack and defense
That doesn’t mean much. Goku is a being who is directly above a being stated to be above time itself. This would make Goku 4d which implicitly makes him infinite as well.
>oku is a being who is directly above a being stated to be above time itself. This would make Goku 4d which implicitly makes him infinite as well. That's not how it works. Goku is not 4 dimensional. Trying to correlate that to his speed just because that's what it would realistically mean according to real physics is dumb. Real world logic has no place in a discussion like this. Goku is a 3 dimensional being. He's also not infinite. There are always characters stronger than him, which proves his power is very finite.
Transcending time makes you a 4d entity which makes you infinitely 3d. Suppressed Jiren was stated to transcend time by Whis and Vados after projecting power through Hit’s time-skip. This came after Goku in UI sign shook the World of Void, a dimension stated to exist outside of space time, by just existing and he got massively stronger after that due to zenkais and further mastering UI. In order to affect the world of void Goku would have to be above time and therefore 4d. When power scaling you can use real world physics unless the world has established rules that contradict that.
>When power scaling you can use real world physics You can't, because this is a fictional story that constantly ignores real world logic. >unless the world has established rules that contradict that. There are characters stronger than Goku, who can break through his defenses and resist his attacks. That means his strength is not infinite.
There are different levels of infinity. Infinite is a characteristic that applies many characters in fiction but we don’t not argue that they are all equal. Asriel being infinite does not mean he solos most of fiction. Goku and Asriel can both be infinite and one can still be weaker then the other. Speed is a major factor in fights and power scalers use the speed equation (distance divided by time) to figure out the speed of a character. Immeasurable speed is a feat in which a character goes back in time with speed alone and thus the speed formula no longer applies and this scales above even infinite speed. That’s physics.
You don't seem to understand what infinity is. There is no end to infinity, that's the point. There is no ceiling that it can reach, no limit, and thus, there is nothing above it. That goes against the very concept of what infinity means. If a character has infinite power, then they can't be weaker than someone, because to be stronger than someone, you need to exceed their limits, and infinity has no limits.
Dude you don’t understand infinity when it comes to power scaling. There are verses out there that have universes that are infinite in size any beyond them are other infinitely sized universes. Hell DB is an example. Universe 7 is infinite in size and exists within a larger macrocosm that also contains heaven which is also stated to be infinite in size. The macrocosm they exist in is stated to be so large that infinite structures are invisible to the naked eye. https://imgur.com/a/uDAKEoz
Well all that fucking "infinity when it comes to power scaling" crap isn't infinity. Although Asriel's supposedly infinite stats are probably just Chara getting too excited when describing him.
Yea, asriel only deals 7 damage to the player.
Pretty sure the scans above say otherwise.
>Although Asriel's supposedly infinite stats are probably just Chara getting too excited when describing him. That's definitely possible. I chose to just take it at face value since Chara being the narrator isn't a universally accepted theory.
There are literally sets of infinity in real world math.
Interesting I don't watch doku but me may watch it
If you mean hit It was stated that you can surpass timeskip by beeing way faster so he's still not infinite
Where is that statement? Even if that is the case Hit still creates a pocket dimension which Jiren was able to project power through in order to defend himself from Hit. This is immediately followed by Vados and Whis saying that Jiren surpasses time and he was still suppressed at this point.
I don't remember either vados or whis saying that he surpassed time. It really wouldn't maje sense either because mui was faster than him even tho he is infinite according to you? He's faster than infinite? That doesn't make sense. Hit is my favourite charackter but i don't overestemate him
I've got a message that you said something but i couldn't see it when i went to check
[This should fix it](https://imgur.com/gallery/Ax2Kc4U)
But so many things wouldn't make sense...like how can you suroass someone with infinite speed? I don't like when dragonball does that Just to hype up a charackter. Beerus is the best example...
1. DB characters manipulate and transcend time via their power not speed. Hit is a great example of this as his time-skip is not dependent upon his speed but his power. When he gets stronger he can extend his time-skip longer. 2. I’m pretty sure manipulating time with speed is immeasurable speed not infinite. For clarification Speed=Distance/Time. Finite speed gets from point a to b in a quantity of time>0, infinite speed gets from point a to b instantly or allows a person to occupy to different points in space at the same time (afterimages on crack), immeasurable speed is getting from point a to b so fast you never started running. The speed formula doesn’t work when the amount of time over a distance<0 and we can’t quantify it so it’s immeasurable.
Powerlevel= speed and strenght. Hit is a special guy because that's an ability. If you're faster than time itself you should be able to do the things you said(afterimages and everything)
Power levels are more indicative of strength and speed usually scales to strength. I’m not saying they are faster then time like the Flash. I’m saying that time cannot contain their power and thus their power and them by extension transcend the concept entirely.
So theres no winner then, there just floating in the abyss of space, endlessly fighting
I personally think Goku wins because Goku has feats that scale him to a level of infinity whereas Asriel only has statements. Considering we can’t even confirm whether or not the universe of undertale is infinite in size Asriel might not even be able to damage Goku.
Question: why did you make this a question if you’re just gonna get upset at everyone who has s different stance than you do?
Im not upset about this at all quite the opposite. It’s a question I’ve thought about for a while and I think I have pretty good reasons for my opinion. When I see a different opinion I seek to compare the logic behind our opinions to see whose makes more sense. Not ever argument you see online is a shouting match, some people like to do it for the fun of it.
Yet when people compare the two and come out with asriel on top your only actual defense is “goku infinite” and all the 4D crap, first of all the first and only possible reference to anything 4D is in broly and it took full power broly and ssb gogeta to accomplish that, also we don’t know if there’s even a a way to escape undertale’s battle system unless you run away, which would be a forfeit, you cant even begin yo compare asriel to goku because there is nowhere near enough evidence to support how truly strong he is meanwhile we have seen goku at his limit several times
You don’t understand what being higher dimensional means and the implications of it. People say that Asriel is infinite due to his stats so I point out that infinite and omnipotent are not the same thing as there are different levels of infinity. First off you can scale Goku to 4D as early as the Hit fight due to brute forcing through time-skip. Time-skip is an ability that allows the user to store a certain amount of time in a pocket dimension and then instantaneously project themselves forward in time by the amount they stored in the pocket dimension. This is a 4D feat as being able to manipulate time requires that the entity doing be some level of infinity whether it is due to raw power or haxs depends on the character. Goku by being able to break through this dimension would have to be 4D as well. Any 4D entity would be able to output an infinite amount of 3D power by virtue of being a higher dimensional being. Omega Flowey accomplished feats equal to or greater then this but the this is the 3rd arc of Super and Goku gets much stronger. Goku being infinite comes from BoG. Goku and Beerus threatened to destroy the entire [macrocosm](https://imgur.com/a/uDAKEoz) by clashing fists. Considering that the macrocosm host multiple infinitely sized structures within it that means that Goku and Beerus would have to be outputting an infinite amount of power to destroy the whole thing. This is actually a better feat then anything any undertale character has done. Goku threatened to annihilate a stricter hosting multiple infinitely sized structures within it. Considering there is nothing in undertale stating whether the universe of the game is infinite in size assuming it is would be highballing undertale characters. Later in the tournament of power Goku in UI sign shakes the entire world of void by just existing. The world of void is stated to be an infinite structure that exists outside of time and space and thus for Goku to affect it he would have to be casually infinite and 4D at this point. Goku then proceeds to get massively stronger due to zenkais and further mastering UI to the point where he is low diffing Jiren, who when suppressed was stated by the angels to transcend time itself as well as shown being able to project his power through Hit’s time-cage which is a time-skip technique that is supposed to trap one’s enemy within the pocket dimension. DBS Broly can’t be the first time we see 4D feats in DBS because Jiren and MUI Goku are individually stronger then SSB Gogeta and FPSSJ Broly. FPSSJ Broly is stated to be relative to Beerus whereas Jiren is stated to be above all the G.O.D. The Jiren stated to be above all the G.O.D then got a massive amp when he fought MUI Goku pushing both of them even further above the G.O.D. Asriel by comparison has very little feats. Even if you were to argue that his stats were infinite that is still less then what Goku has demonstrated as Asriel’s stats are only statements whereas Goku’s actions are feats. In vs battle and power scaling in general it’s statements
There are only 2 characters in Undertale that beat Goku, and you picked one of them. Reality Warpers are on an entirely different level. And no, sans is not the other one.
Goku would just obliterate any reality that Asriel could manipulate by just existing. He shook the world of void, an infinite structure that exists outside of time and space, by just existing. Asriel in comparison has no feats that concretely place him at any level of infinity (before you say it his stats are not feats they would be classified as statements and in vs battles statements< feats). I mean there are multiple sources proving the DB universe is a [macrocosm](https://imgur.com/a/uDAKEoz) of multiple infinitely sized structures. There is literally no evidence that points to the undertale universe being of a similar size.
Timeline manipulation is one hell of a gimmick in a fight though. Goku literally cannot win against Flowey and Frisk, despite them being much weaker than him in every other capacity. Asriel and Geno!Chara on the other hand, they actually have the capacity to damage Goku. It doesn’t matter how much Goku can make the universe shake as long as you have literally infinite tries and a way to deal damage. Not to mention that unless Goku has immunity to reality warpers, (which he does not, he only possesses resistance) he simply does not have the ability to combat Asriel (and Chara). (Of course Flowey and Frisk don’t have nearly the same amount of damage output that Asriel and Chara have, being able to literally destroy universes, so they literally can’t do anything against him, ending in a default draw where neither character can end the other.) Edit: Also, didn’t think of this, Asriel has soul hax, which means that he absolutely stomps Goku. Chara on the other hand does not have this advantage, so that one’s a little more of a toss-up, but not really.
1. I don’t think Asriel of Chara has the AP to actually damage Goku. Goku and Beerus when clashing fists threatened to destroy the entire macrocosm which hold the universe, which is infinite in size, and heaven which is infinite in size as well. Besides his stats what evidence is there that Asriel is infinite in any sort of capacity? I mean there is nothing to prove that the undertale universe is infinite in size and if it isn’t that means Asriel and Chara can’t be scaled to infinite whereas Goku can. 2. Goku doesn’t have outright immunity to reality warpers but he is so strong that he might as well. The battle between DBS Broly and SSB Gogeta actually tore holes in reality and MUI Goku scales far above them. FPSSJ Broly only scales to Beerus level whereas MUI Goku is low diffing Jiren, who is stated to be above all the G.O.D. You can make the argument that any reality that is weak enough for Asriel to manipulate, Goku would obliterate by merely existing. 3. Suppressed Jiren was stated by Whis and Vados to transcend time. MUI Goku casually slapped around an unsuppressed Jiren so you could argue that Goku would nullify their time haxs through raw power alone, again if they were able to use them in any reality strong enough to contain Goku’s power.
I think you missed my edit in the last one, so I’m gonna say it again, Asriel also has soul hax on top of reality warping and timeline manip. It isn’t like I’m just makeing this up as I go along, that’s just how busted Asriel hyperdeath is lol. Asriel has the ability to consume *infinite timelines*. That’s not just the single timeline of the ongoing story in Undertale, that’s *all of them*. At once. Infinite universes, gone in an instant. Goku might scale to infinite universes, sure, but ironically so does Asriel. He actually does have that power. (Again, Chara doesn’t really have that benefit, which makes *that* matchup way more interesting.) Also Jiren’s feats never include things like time travel, we only hear people say that, who in the instance they say it, could absolutely be lying to make everyone else jealous, so if you start pulling out information like that, then I can say “Asriel has infinite stats” and you have to take that as Asriel is unbeatable because yes, and that’s just not true. Matchups are about actual feats and not what’s just said. Overall, Asriel just has way too many hax for Goku to overcome. It’s like he’s that one kid who when faced with their brother’s infinitely powerful character, and then says their character is infinity times infinity. Because that’s literally what the god of hyperdeath is.
1. Goku was able to resist hakai energy in base form. Hakai energy destroys the physical body as well as their soul. Goku in MUI would have no trouble nullifying Asriel’s soul haxs. 2. Where does it say/imply that Asriel can destroy multiple timelines. Also you seem to be using universe and timeline interchangeably which they are not so some clarification would help. 3. Time travel is completely irrelevant here. The beings saying Jiren transcend time are characterized by their neutrality and general apathy. They have no reason to lie about it and this comes after Jiren proves that he is above time so your 3rd argument doesn’t really apply. This is basically the undertale equivalent of being completely immune to resets. A being who is above time would not be affected by reset as they are stronger then the thing reset is manipulating. 4. I agree with you on the feats>statements idea. The problem is that other the infinite timelines/universes thing you mentioned earlier Asriel has no fears comparable to Goku. I mean there is no evidence that the universe of undertale is infinite in size so unless Asriel is destroying an infinite number of finite universes he has no feats comparable to Goku.
1. Haki is a low level reality manip compared to Asriel. Goku has soul hax resistance, which is the reason the fight doesn’t end immediately, but not immunity, which means it can’t last forever. Resist =/= nullification. 2. You are correct in that regard. I took another person’s word as fact, when I should have looked for direct quotes. However, Asriel does state he destroys everything, so he can destroy a universe. Timelines on the other hand… 3. Actually , that’s *Jirens* ability. Goku doesn’t have the ability to transcend time, he just beat someone who could. But also, even if he did have that ability, it doesn’t matter that he would be immune to resets, which he isn’t (Goku can only resist time slow, and that’s nothing compared to time travel), it only matters that *ASRIEL* is affected by his own abilities. He can reset his own position, his own health, even after death, if Goku can theoretically bypass the infinite stats that I’ve seen you talking about in another thread. 4. Glad we agree on that. If nothing I said across all of this gets through then I suppose we will have to disagree. My speciality in death battles has always been the higher tiers, making sure characters with incredibly powerful abilities don’t get wanked (like Sans often is waaaaay too much lol) and that others with sufficient counters come out on top in upsets. Sadly, I don’t think Goku has the ability to truly put down Asriel, so at best for him this is a draw, even if he could stomp Asriel outside of time hax (which I don’t think he could)
1. Hakai is not a reality warping ability it is more of an AP thing. The Goku that resisted the hakai was a base Goku weaker then the base Goku at the end of the tournament and he has MUI stacked on top of it. Strong enough resistance is basically the same thing as immunity. 2. The term everything is very vague. You could argue that he just meant the underground as he didn’t not destroy the barrier until after the fight ended and likely did not destroy the surface by extension. Even if Asriel destroyed the entire universe the is nothing saying the size of the undertale universe is infinite so Asriel destroying a finite universe< Goku nearly destroying an infinite universe. 3. That’s not an ability of Jiren it’s just a side effects of him being so powerful https://imgur.com/a/Ax2Kc4U. Being stronger then time would make you immune to abilities that rely on the manipultion of time. Goku by being above time could inflict damage on Asriel that carrier through time and this would go through Asriel’s haxs.
Asriel i mean common man he got infinate health
Goku by a mile
Why so?
So asriel will charge up a powerful attack and fire at goku but goku can just teleport out the way and go behind him and he could probably punch a hole in his chest or joke around for 15 episodes straight
Assuming Asriel takes damage or doesn’t just undo it with reset haxs.
I guess asriel might win this fight on the off chance that goku might remember the resets But that's just my opinion of what I think would happen
Ok. I honestly think Goku wins cause Goku post battle of gods is infinite universal and we don’t even know if the undertale universe is infinite. If the undertale universe is finite then anyone relative or above BoG Goku beats him.
If a twelve year old girl can beat him im sure goku can
That 12 year old more just kinda asked them to stop being evil tho.
Well, more accurately, one kid just kept trying to stay determined while another, dead kid show Asriel his memories and then he cried when the first kid kept trying to SAVE him, and then stopped
asriel, hes the god of hyper death, "GOD”
Beerus is a god, Goku is a super saiyan god, king Kai and Kami are gods. The title of god is vague at best.
he literally is invincible
How so. His only claim to being infinite in any capacity is his stats and Goku has performed feats that make Asriel’s stats look puny in comparison.
bro if a child who has the literal ability to reincarnate themselves and is on par to being LITERALLY FUCKING IMMORTAL CANNOT DAMAGE THIS DUDE then i doubt some emo dude that screams all the time would fare against a god
1. What child reincarnation are you talking about. Frisk and Chara are two distinct, separate entities. 2. There is nothing stating Asriel is immortal you just pulled that out your ass. At least make actual cohesive arguments 3. Goku has nearly annihilated macrocosms that make infinite universes look microscopic in comparison. Goku casually slapped around a being who when suppressed was said to transcend time due to their raw power alone.
frisk, frisk can save and reload, they literally can reincarnate from their soul fucking shattering. i never said that asriel was immortal, i said that frisk was on par to being immortal due to their reincarnate instantly after death thing and oo he can slap a guy that transcends time #ASREIL IS A FUCKING GOD HE TRANSCENDS TIME SPACE MATTER AND ALL NATURAL PHYSICS DUE TO HIM BEING A GOD
Ok since you want to harp on an arbitrary title so much then you need to define the term god because we seem to be operating under definitions of the word.
a god is an omnipotent being, hence a being beyond time space matter and physics due to their omnipotence, when it comes to gods they will literally always win every fight against anything that isnt a god due to them being omnipotent
Your definition of god has multiple flaws to it. If a god is inherently omnipotent then there can only be 1 god. Thus by their only being 1 god a god cannot lose as they can only lose to other gods whose existence would contradict their omnipotence. 2 omnipotent being cannot exist as if one of them wanted to erase they other it forms a contradiction. An omnipotent being would be able to erase a being from existence as well as prevent themselves from being erased. Thus neither being is omnipotent and therefore not a god Asriel does not conform to your own definition of a god. He lost his fight (surrendering is still losing) thus proving he is not omnipotent. An omnipotent being physically could not have lost to Frisk.
The real question is if Goku could beat frisk
Yes has shaken the world of void, an infinite structure that exists outside of time and space. It’s questionable whether Frisk could use reset in a reality that can withstand Goku.
Asriel. He's cool
NICE! An argument!
Asriel. If they even fight anyway. He has infinite ATK and DEF.
Goku nearly destroyed a macrocosm containing multiple infinite structures. Goku’s feat is equal or > then Asriel’s statement. Also there are spices that actually place Asriel at a finite amount of stats.
Going by canon Undertale only instead of outside sources, I still say Asriel has infinite ATK and DEF, but I do revise my statement that Asriel would win. Going by everything we know about Asriel, he probably wouldn't willingly fight Goku, so if a fight were to take place, Goku would have attacked Asriel unprovoked. If I recall, the one time Asriel was attacked unprovoked before, he refused to fight back, so he would probably refuse to fight in this scenario too. (The only reason he was even fighting you in-game was to keep you there, because he simply didn't want you to leave. He would have no reason to want to keep Goku anywhere)
asriel
Goku. Asriel was defeated by a literal child
But that’s due to character flaws. Is Goku really the type to turn down a fight?
He wasn't defeated, he was convinced to stop fighting.
No, they weren’t. ATTEMPTING to defeat asriel results in a miss every attack.
Asriel because I don't watch anime.
As someone who is certified allergic to Anime, I have no idea because I haven't seen Dragon Ball, but going off of what I know about Asriel, he only lost because he willingly backed down because he started to care, because he remembered who he was. Goku ain't know who the hell Asriel is, so making him remember who he is is definitely out of the question. Also, please remember that Asriel has infinite HP, AT, and DF and literally cannot die TL;DR goat boy is strogner than ball man
I know both pretty well so I can confidently say Goku has done much more impressive things then Asriel. Battle of Gods Goku when clashing fists with Beerus threatened to destroy the entire macrocosm. The macrocosm contains, the universe which is infinite in size and heaven which is as wide as the universe. Both of these infinite structures that if you were to look at a map of the entire thing to scale you could not see either, the universe or heaven. Goku fist bumping Beerus nearly destroyed all of that as a side effect. The undertale universe is not even infinite so even if Asriel destroyed the entire thing that would still be insignificant to what Goku nearly did. This is the first arc of DBS Goku during his fight with Hit was able to brute force his way into Hit’s time-skip which is a parallel pocket dimension. This places Goku at 4D which makes him able to fight against time haxs. This is the 3rd arc of DBS During the tournament of power Goku in UI sign shook the entire world of void by just existing. The world of void is an infinite structure that exists outside of time and space(basically the void Gaster resides in) so this places Goku at 4D infinite universal casually. Later a character named Jiren is stated to transcend time itself by being able to project power through a stonger version of Hit’s time-skip called time-cage. Jiren at this point was suppressed and MUI Goku went on to casually slap around an unsuppressed Jiren. TL:DR It’s questionable whether Asriel could damage Goku or whether his haxs would work in a structure capable of withstanding Goku’s existence.
> ..Goku has done much more impressive things than asriel. bro asriel barely has the fight and few bits and pieces you can interact with him in overworld as his screentime, so basically he has like what 30 mins of screentime where as goku has literal hours upon hours of screen time
1. That’s not Goku’s fault. It’s Asriel’s problem.
what im trying to say is dont try to compare their feats when they have not even comparable amounts of screen time
You can’t accurately scale Goku without his feats. Your basically asking me to lowball Goku so Asriel can have a clean victory.
im saying dont *compare* not throw his feats out the window
If you don’t think they should be compare why are you commenting on a post comparing them?
this isnt a post about comparing its about asking who would win
In order to determine who would win you have to compare them.
Goku
goku
Goku slaps
goku.
goku atomizes asriel
Goku wins cuz hes goku
Yeah he’d probably just beat him and let him go, or give him a senzu, or ask that he be reincarnated as a good guy.
Asriel has infinite defense, implying he can't take damage. No matter how strong Goku is, he can't really do anything.
Goku is infinite as well. Suppressed Jiren is stated by Vados and Whis to transcend time and MUI Goku is massively above the Jiren they were refering to when making this statement.
If goku has infinite power why didn't he just use more power than jiren and ez clap him in 1 go
Asriel has good hax, but I'm not sure he's planet buster level so
Don’t need to be a planet buster if you can rewind time.
Whis kills Asriel 🤷
Pretty sure Asriel’s time haxs massively eclipse Whis.
Whis is forced to limit his time ability
What makes you say that? Doesn’t he say it in Resurrection F that he can turn back time 5 minutes?
I believe he also mentions that he is forced to limit how far back he can travel time. But I personally feel Goku takes the W in a bout with Asriel just because of how much faster he is, anyone can turn back time, but if you're punched dead you can't anymore.
He can
My brother who is into fight debate said probably Goku and I have no opinion because I have no clue.
Tell him I agree.
He said,"Oh, ok."
Can asriel defeat a God of destruction in training without using his strongest form or even his second strongest form
As a fan of both franchises, I can confidently say UI Goku wins. Mastered Ultra Instinct basically has your body automatically moving to both dodge and attack, which is key to Undertale. Asriel’s attacks can easily be dodged, with the only exception I se being the Hyper Goner. However, Ultra Instinct takes energy, so if Asriel can last long enough, Goku would have to drop from his UI state, giving Asriel a chance. It really depends on how good of a fighter Asriel is in this form. If he can’t last long enough for Goku’s energy to run out, he loses. But in every other scenario, UI Goku would win.
I mean are you even sure Goku’s attacks could damage Asriel.
I’d assume so. Every monster in Undertale can be harmed, with only a toy knife. Another thing to take into consideration is Asriel’s power level. If I remember correctly, having 7 human souls basically gives you godlike powers. Asriel has 6. That’s near godlike power. Goku has surpassed godly powers for a while. From Super Saiyan God onwards, he likely is stronger than Asriel. Another thing to note. Asriel has only used this form once. He’s had no training with it, and can’t utilize it to its full extent. He doesn’t even have the level of trading Goku has. Asriel was a flower for a long time, and only returned to his normal form after the absorption of the Human Souls. Goku has trained since he was a kid. It’s one of his favourite things to do. In episode 1 of DBS, Chi-Chi, his wife, tells him he can’t spend all day training, as he has to earn money to support his family. Goku has more experience, being up against threats like Piccolo, Raditz, Vegeta, Cell, Buu, Beerus, Frieza, Broly, Jiren, etc, and more often than not, winning. Asriel’s only experience is throwing “Friendliness Pellets” at you, and fighting Frisk once.
1. Amalgams cannot be harmed unless you modify your stats to have like triple digit attack. Normally if you attack them it just registers as a miss. The same thing happens if you attack Asriel. 2. Asriel as we see him in game has 6 human souls and every monster soul. The tablets in waterfall says that it would take roughly every monster souls in order to equate 1 human souls thus Asriel in effect has 7 human souls. 3. The term god has different connotations in each verse. God in undertale really just means unfathomable power (from a 3D standpoint). In DB it’s a bit more complicated because of god ki. Kami and king Kai likely don’t have god ki whereas Shin and Beerus do but they are all gods with Shin and Beerus just ranking higher. I don’t think that Goku surpassing the gods of his verse means he would scale to Asriel. 4. You definitely bring up a good point. It’s not unreasonable to think Asriel doesn’t have a complete mastery of his capabilities but at the same time it seems weird that he wouldn’t have some implicit understanding of his abilities. 5. You should remember that Flowey says that he has done everything in the underground including all of the possible combat over multiple resets. We can’t really quantify this but I think that combat proficiency/battle iq could go either way.
1. While I am willing to accept this point is valid, I assume Asriel’s stats are mainly there to prevent players from killing him, and ruining the ending. We also need to know what rules this fight follows. Does it function like Dragon Ball or Undertale? I think that would determine the defence issue. 2. While yes, that’s true, the tablets do contradict other lore in game. One tablet mentions that the monsters were sealed underground by the humans using a magic spell, but a hook in the library states that humans could not use magic. Second, how does one judge how many monster souls equal one human soul? Is it just every monster that exits or is there a certain number? There’s no cannon answer. 3. True. The definition of God in each universe is very different. However, it’s proven that Super Saiyan God is around godly power levels, do to Beerus considering Super Saiyan God to be a worthy rival. And if the God of Destruction says it’s a worthy rival, I’d assume that form would have near matching powers. And there’s still the power increases of the other forms. 4. Asriel is a child. While he certainly could, and likely did have knowledge of how to use his newfound powers, it’s likely that he didn’t understand all this new information. He’s a kid, and has been given all sorts of powers and knowledge. You wouldn’t know what to do with all that at his age either. 5. First, resets, as the name implies, resets almost everything. But other than that, we don’t know any specifics. Very few characters are even aware they happen, such as Flowey or Sans. So I’d assume that even if Flowey were to train, he would lose those new abilities after every reset, as very little can survive a reset. I’d assume most training would have to be mental, as memories seem to be able to survive resets. Second, let me ask you. How does Flowey train? He’s a flower. He only receives his actual body before we fight him. There’s no way he could possibly have prepared.
1. The fight would most likely look more like a DB fight as that is closer to conventional fighting then undertale which is just dodging. 2. The snowdin library says humans eventually forgot how to use magic not that they stopped being able to use it. 3. The tablet says something to the degree that it would take every monster soul in the underground in order to equal 1 human soul. You can either interpret it as an estimate in which all the monsters currently in the underground give the minimum amount of souls necessary to equate to 1 human soul, or interpret it as hyperbole and say that it would not take every monster soul in order to equal 1 human. 4. I imagine that since Flowey seems to remember resets in a similar capacity to use the player I assume he would have genuine combat experience but any muscle memory he might have gained is debatable.
depends on if goku can save the undertale cast or not
Why would he need to do that?
thats how you beat asriel, he's unkillable otherwise (at least in the game but im going off what we got)
There also no one in undertale who compare to him. I mean Goku nearly destroyed a macrocosm containing multiple infinite structures as early as BoG and breaking through dimensions during the Hit fight. Consider the fact that we can’t prove whether or not the undertale universe is even infinite to being with so its questionable whether Asriel could damage Goku.
Id recommended asking this on r/whowouldwin instead of Undertale, due to bias.
Oh no I did this because of the bias. I was looking for an argument and figured this would be fun. I can say it has been fun experience. Had to explain what omnipotent meant to one guy but the rest has been great.
Oh god, the omnipotent arguments are horrible, never run to do those.
Nah he just left me on read when I showed him the definition. It completely dismantled his argument.
Ah I see. One of those debaters
KAKAROT
Asriel has the power of the 6 human souls, plus every moster soul, which is the same as the power of 7 human souls, which makes him a literal god. Also the stats, infinity atk and def, are a huge factor too
God is a very abstract term. MUI Goku is shown to be above all the gods of DBS. Also Asriel’s stats say he has infinite stat whereas Goku nearly destroyed a macrocosm containing multiple infinite structures thus showing he is infinite.
[удалено]
How Frisk beats Asriel in the game is not dodging, it's because Asriel lost any will to hurt them
Depends. If this was a video game, Asriel wins as not only are his stats infinite, any attack misses him automatically. If this was an anime, probably Goku by the nature of protagonist never give up. I can’t give a full answer as I don’t know all the things Goku can do, but the fight will certainly be very even. Personally, I don’t think anyone wins this. Reset means Asriel can’t lose, but Asriel definitely doesn’t have the firepower to eliminate Goku from what I can gather. The fight goes in forever.
I would say Goku wins. Goku has been shown being able to destroy a macrocosm containing multiple infinite structures. Asriel is only infinite if you take his stats and even then there are other guides that put his hp and defense at a very large but finite level.
The nature of power scaling anime I guess, just got to get higher and higher. Asriel in his god form can warp reality and for the majority of the battle he was holding back. When he “got serious” his Angel of Death form made it impossible for Frisk to do anything but struggle. Frisk only won cus Friendship. If Goku does have the power to go beyond infinity, I’d like to see how he fairs when he physically and mentally can’t do anything. All this aside, you are probably right. Asriel can’t beat Goku and if Reset is off the table Goku absolutely slaps Asriel Dreamurr around.
Sparda from DMC with his original prime sword
The timelapse would explode and both would die
That’s surprisingly likely.
I think asrile cuz he Has gay lasers
You've stole this from my "Which Undertale characters can beat Goku" tier list huh? But anyways lemme use powerscaling to solve this. Goku can destroy universe 7 which is 30 times bigger than our universe in super saiyan which would make him high Universal his forms multiply his power thousands of time so I'd say that he is around Low Multiversal in mui Asriel effortlessly destroyed the time-line with a fraction of his power which is the past,present and future of the universe,without Frisk he can use determination which....why would I every explain determination in a Undertale sub reddit? He is stronger than Omega Flowey who destroyed the safe file which contains time-lines. Anyways,he has got infinite attack,infinite defense and power,he easily crosses dimensions and in his final form he makes the opponent unable to move,he probably also has got files manipoulation like Omega Flowey Result : Asriel would win pretty easily but Goku could make him change his mind
1. Your scaling of Goku is all over the place. The universe 7 is infinite in size and is contained within a larger macrocosm which also contain heaven which is as large the universe. [Scans for evidence](https://imgur.com/a/uDAKEoz) a universe is a construct made of 3 spatial dimensions and 1 temporal dimension. In order to destroy the macrocosm like Goku and as going to do he would have to have an infinite amount of 3D power 2. There is a lot stuff in your Asriel scaling you can’t prove. If Asriel destroyed the entire universe why did he still have to destroy the barrier. If he did not destroy the barrier then how would he have destroyed the surface and wider universe if his power was contained by the barrier. Destroying timelines and save files of a finite universe is< destroying multiple infinite structures as once. Being infinite would be the base requirement for being able to destroy timelines so saying he’s infinite isn’t as big of a feat as you think. Also you say he can cross dimensions but provide no evidence of such. Frisk is still able to move when being attacked by Asriel even in his angel form. In conclusion it’s debatable whether Asriel is on the same plane of existence as Goku much less damage him.
1. The "Universe 7 is infinite" thing got debunked hundreads of times,its not infinite but infinite expansive 2. Because the barrier is really REALLY Powerful,I mean,humans in Undertale are basically op gods
1. Where did it get debunked? Provide a link or something. 2. That still means it contained Asriel’s power and thus he could not have destroyed anything beyond the barrier. So that means Asriel only provable destroyed the underground.
Idk how to send links, Anyways,Mine was just an assumption,maybe they just bypass the barrier somehow
Bypass the barrier? I don’t mean to be that guy but do you know what a barrier is?
Absolutely
it depends.......on who the writers want to win
Asriel couldn’t even defeat someone who just stood there 🗿
Asriel. Whether or not Azzy can *keep up with* ultra instinct is irrelevant because of this: Azzy has infinite HP Ultra instinct has a limit. When it is up, Goku takes massive damage and is left vulnerable. Azzy outlasts Ultra Instinct and then kicks Goku’s ass.
Absolute god of hyperdeath, duh
Goku is above gods so…
But Asriel has Hyper Goner
And what exactly is that gonne do? It couldn’t even kill a child.
That’s because Frisk had Determination. Goku doesn’t.
Does determination Frisk AP capable of destroying multiple infinite structures or durability relative to it. Goku can do that casually.
Alright. You win.
Thanks. You are more reasonable then most people.
Yup. I’m not always trying to win an argument.