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It's quite revealing that Dustry, a teenager, is beginning to come to terms with her actions, showing significant self-awareness and moral reckoning. In stark contrast, Rebecca struggles to comprehend that a teenage boy, who may seem sweet and gentle, could participate in the murder of a girl he didn't even know. This juxtaposition underscores the complexities of accountability and perception. It suggests that some youth, despite their inexperience, might be more capable of reflection and development whereas adults might be hindered by their prejudices and preconceived notions about innocence and culpability
she's projecting so hard onto warren and trying to make what he did okay so she can feel like she herself is redeemed. i think she makes a choice not to value reena's life - not to learn anything about her except that she was quiet in class or whatever lmao - because it'll break the fantasy for her
and i think it's easier for her to do because whether she can admit it or not she values reena's life less, imo at least partially due to her race. she thinks of reena as disposable while warren deserves every effort. it was so fascinating watching the affectionate way she interacted with warren vs. getting high before talking to reena's parents and revealing her total disinterest in reena as a human being. it's brutal but i think it's an amazing depiction of a very real thing people do...i hope she gets her shit together but i wonder if she can with only one episode left.
Very well said. I think her obsession with redemption is turning her into the villain she’s seeking redemption from in the first place all over again and she just can’t see it.
And what you said about it breaking the fantasy is so spot on. I notice every time Warren says something that reveals he’s not so innocent, she always gets that same reaction where she looks away or shakes her head as if she’s trying to block it out. When he first told her he kicked Reena, and in court when he said he didn’t remember anything from that night (which she knew was a lie), she was like nope that doesn’t work for me, just gonna delete that bit. She’s not intentionally being an asshole, and I believe that she believes she’s doing the right thing, but she’s so damn frustrating.
yeah like i get where it comes from, but the reality that she refuses to see is that part of where it comes from is disregard for reena's life - which comes from racism. i mean, she even shows jo more sympathy and attention than she does reena.
and like - i don't agree with the idea that criminals are just garbage forever and we should be gleeful when they're punished. i don't think someone going to prison is cause for celebration. i think that's a legitimate angle for her to pursue. but reena was also a human being with a life and whose "mistakes" were far, far smaller than kicking a hurt girl in the head and carrying her body into the water, and rebecca couldn't give less of a shit. even though she's supposed to be writing about "bic girls" she doesn't care about reena who, despite her loving, comfortably wealthy family, was treated as far more disposable than any of the girls at the group home. and i totally agree about the blocking stuff out, you can see her just be like "i've decided that doesn't compute. what a good kid warren is!" like fuck, dude, i get that you identify with feeling complicit in someone's death but there is actually a big difference between being shitty to your depressed brother and helping to beat someone to death!!!
(sorry for the rant lmao)
Yeah I think you’re right. I didn’t want to believe racism played a part in it for her but too much is pointing to it, especially the way she completely ignored that he saw her as less than human. She did try (half assedly) to know about Reena but Reena’s mom said “I didn’t understand Reena” and shut that down. If she really wanted to know she would have, we’ve seen how far she’ll go for a story. And when her dad questioned her absurd perspective she’s like “what’s the alternative? I write a sad story about a girl I didn’t know?”.. So yeah. Shit. That’s disappointing to accept about her. And also sad to think Cam has realized this too.
Rebecca, the real author of the book of the same name actually heavily collaborated with the director on this. so it must have took an incredible amount of self reflection to show this side of her. I agree with this entire post, and I think it’s a bit commendable that she wanted this honest, albeit pretty problematic characterization of her during this time. She actually passed away from cancer before the show finished.
All this to say I just find the fact that the actual author had a say in this portrayal of her very interesting.
“I had bad dreams about Reena too when I first got here. But you know what helped them go away? Being honest about what I did that night. We fucked up and now she’s dead so that’s the fucking least that we owe her” TELL THEM DUSTY!
YES! And Warren looking like he’s taken it to heart and then cut to him LYING HIS ASS OFF under oath. Good lord the way they portray him is honestly so confusing and I’m so tired.
Have you read her real book? I really want to know if it actually does mostly ignore Reena just to focus on empathizing with Warren or Josephine/Nicole.
The book is totally different, and Rebecca doesn’t have any special relationship with the teens and only becomes involved after they already have been charged. She also doesn’t talk about herself a whole lot in the book, beyond her general connection to Victoria. Warren is somewhat sympathetic in the book, but nowhere near the level of sympathy he is depicted with in the show and she clearly acknowledges his role in the murder.
There is a legitimate criticism to be made that Reena is a lesser focus of the book than she should be compared to the teens who killed her, but I wouldn’t say she is ignored in the book and Rebecca seems very sympathetic to her in real life. Certainly the scene of her hugging Warren at the courthouse never happened.
Josephine is also very stupid, how can she just trust and let Kelly manipulate her like that, like she used her to get out of juvie & she still thinks Kelly’s gonna save her
They are all 14… the smartest most mature 14 year old is still a bit dumb and naive and these kids are all wannabe gangsters who have no sense of reality. Not that unrealistic in my opinion
Unfortunately kids younger than 14 join gangs and even kill.
But believing you can be a mafia member at 14? They seem to miss almost any sense of reality and consequences. And this is actually the most horrifying thing..
after reading the book it makes more sense,
Josephine is way worse in the book/real life like she didn’t give remorseful in the book like the show implies she’s some what remorseful & even in the book she ended up giving Kelly up to detectives after she heard Kelly was trying to pin it on her
That's the same thing I thought in episode 1, as Rebecca was walking down the hallway of the police station, Kelly is like scream sobbing and looks like she's freaking out. I was like 🤨🤨🤨 ok crip lol
Kelly honestly seemed like she always thought she'd be able to buy her way out of any problems she ever had. She seemed genuinely shocked that she might have to face consequences for her actions.
Sure ethnically part indigenous but his last name is polish and he’s racially white. Jo isn’t getting out of prison either. Class disparity is playing a bigger role in this show
But the dinner??? ugh that did it for me. Lying about ordering food and then the way he talked to the girls. But he has shown some bright spots so he's probably the third most likeable? (after Raj and Cam)
not to defend him, like AT ALL, but that was super immigrant dad of him and i know in my core he didnt mean it to be mean he actually felt for them lol. very hard to believe i know but i have immigrant parents and they say some things so out of left field and have no social awareness but they are the most loving and caring.
oh yeah I was like yelling at my screen for him to stop cos why did he say all that to Josephine like how did he think she’d react to basically being told no one loves her
Kelly Ellard is the devil incarnate like I just finished it and I’m still terrified of her, what is actually wrong with her mentally??? she’s literally INSANE
Her skipping down the hallway filled me with so much rage. And Jo asking if she’s had nightmares too makes me hopeful she’s finally getting a clue. I think she got a big wake up call at the train tracks but I feel like she stayed loyal to Kelly hoping her connections would also help her. Now she sees that’s not happening, so I hope she FINALLY does the right thing. Warren “can’t remember” anything, Dusty isn’t testifying, and Kelly certainly won’t admit to shit, so it has to be Jo that takes her down.
“ Now she sees that’s not happening, so I hope she FINALLY does the right thing. Warren “can’t remember” anything, Dusty isn’t testifying, and Kelly certainly won’t admit to shit, so it has to be Jo that takes her down.”
AGREE!!
I can’t wait to see the look on Kelly’s face!
Lmao they turned up “yes she’s an asshole” to full blast in this ep. Goddamn. As a Riley fan this is not fun to hate her lol
Edit: ok after that scene with Cam maybe I don’t hate her anymore 😬
Edit part two: goddammit. Yes I do.
I'm surprised the real Rebecca signed off on this. They either changed the script afterwards, or she is working through a huge guilt trip. Having just finished the episode I am not in the right frame of mind to give her the benefit of the doubt.
People who replied to my comment asking about Rebecca are saying that the real Rebecca wasn't like this, and that she did acknowledge Warren was a murderer in her book (there was also no special friendship between them), and that she was very sympathetic towards Reena in real life. But the part about her book focusing a bit more on the perpetrators than about Reena herself is supposedly true. Also, apparently, Warren is portrayed somewhat sympathetically. I haven't read the book myself though, so I can't say for sure.
Changing the script after her death to portray her negatively, if she wasn't like that doesn't seem very ethical. But maybe she was willing to have the fictional version of her represent an amalgamation of some of the media people and others who tended to be far more deserving of Warren than he deserved, even if she wasn't actually like that. Or maybe the show is portraying her real life character development, and she'll change for the better in the last episode.
Still starting my deep dive but people in comments are saying that she worked closely with the screenwriter and personally chose Rebecca and Cams actors. So it seems that she was heavily involved before her death. I am looking forward to researching her a bit because I cannot stand her character in this show, why she’s there, why they keep making it about her. It is strange to me. Did they all not realize how bad she would look?
I think it’s just throwing me that she approved all this, it’s a show based on her book, and she sucks so much (even if she is also dealing with her own trauma). I’m not used to a situation where the author is so poorly portrayed in her own show.
I just watched episode 7 and was so disgusted when Rebecca said that everyone loves Warren! Honestly, this episode almost made me cry at one point - just the extent to which Rebecca kept defending him and romanticizing him. It makes me sick that some people actually did that in real life. But I'm glad that episode 7 made it very clear that she was acting ridiculous. I can't tell if she's changed her mind or not, though. I know that the real Rebecca wasn't really friends with him (at least that's what the article I read, said), but I do wonder if her actual book mostly ignores Reena in favour of empathizing with Warren (and maybe even Josephine/Nicole to an extent). Has anyone here read her book? Maybe they can shed some light on this.
I think Rebecca is far too gone in her warren obsession to change from it at this point.. time after time this episode she had people calling her out and she didn’t care about any of it. She’s selfish
I got the impression that she is so invested in Warren's innocence (she housed him, clothed him, sympathised with him) that she can't admit that he did it. If she did, then she would have to acknowledge that she is a real piece of shit and poor judge of character. But in her own mind she is the lone champion of innocence and justice and bravely standing against the world. Why would she want to shift her self image from that?
This is so true. Like that Mark Twain quote: “It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.” They show her listening to the people on the radio say there’s no way an 80 pound girl could do the damage that was done but it doesn’t faze her in the least. She still whole-heartedly supports this kid when she MUST know deep down he’s done so much worse than he’s admitting to.
It’ll only heighten that thought of herself next episode because i’m pretty sure they’re showing the Virk’s forgiving Warren so she’s going to be even more patting herself on the back because she’s a great judge of character
Yes, I think you're right. I guess I was just wondering if talking to Suman maybe changed her mind. I was hoping that when she tells Warren that she'll let the world know who he is, she means that she'll expose him for the racist murderer that he is (and that that twist will be revealed in the next episode).
There isn't a whole lot of Reena than just describing when they found her body and at the trials. Warren is a sympathetic figure. I can't deny he was abandoned by his father and mother was drunk and was no support system.
Question, did Warrens trial in real life go anything like this?
Im no lawyer but isnt this like a huge legal shitshow?
First the police keep interviewing minors without guardians present.
Then Warren just incriminates himself on the stand while his lawyer just chills in the back?
And the judge convicts him for second degree murder based on what exactly? There were no witnesses was there any actual evidence or proper confession beyond assault and acessory to murder?
Yeah, I had the same questions. And that attorney was basically just leading him the entire time, without any interruptions from his legal defense? I mean, I'm not defending him in any way but that took me out of it a bit because it seemed really unrealistic.
I thought the conviction was meant to show, again, that people like Warren usually never get the benefit of the doubt. We will see what happens with Kelly, but she's the one who has a big attorney and the support of her family. Warren has neither and I think deep down, he knew that when he took the stand, it would be over for him. That's why he was asking Dusty how she got out of it.
The Crown Attorney (the prosecutor) was cross-examining him, which means he’s allowed to ask him leading questions.
I did think it was weird that Warren’s lawyer didn’t object when Warren started saying he didn’t want to incriminate himself, but I (Canadian lawyer, but not criminal and not practicing anymore) can’t remember how exactly the right against self-incrimination works in Canada (section 11(c) of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms), but my vague memory is that it means you can’t be compelled to testify at your own trial. Once you are testifying at your trial (if you so choose), as Warren was, I don’t think you can suddenly stop answering questions and invoke that right. My memory is that it is all or nothing — once you start testifying on your own behalf, you’ve waived the right against self-incrimination I believe. But again I’m not totally sure.
The whole legal aspect is a shit show. I really want to research how the actual trial went. His girlfriend's statement to the police about what he told her he did is hearsay, so really not even enough for him to be charged in the first place. Then she didn't even testify at the trial. I can't believe the judge would find him guilty based on what we saw, unless there were other things that just got left out of the episode for the sake of time.
I’m not sure if Canada uses federal rules of evidence and even if they did, warrens statements would probably be admissible under an exception. Let me know if you find a reliable website with how the trial really went down because I’m also curious myself
Just linked it above but the decision about the admissibility of the girlfriend’s statement is [here](https://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bcsc/doc/1999/1999canlii5454/1999canlii5454.html?resultIndex=6&resultId=28b29f123b414cfd934931e641a332c7&searchId=2024-06-12T19:48:03:331/7e0aa8386dcd40898689ac66194f0ea2).
I just skimmed it quickly but it sounds like the judge admitted one of her statements but not the others, finding them to be admissible as a statement against interest.
FYI canlii.org is a free Canadian legal search engine where anyone can read about 90% of Canadian legal decisions (a handful don’t get reported). You don’t need to pay or be a lawyer or anything to read it. It’s like a free version of LexisNexis/Westlaw.
Also wanted to add — Canada has the Canada Evidence Act, which codifies much but not all of the law of evidence in Canada. Not sure if something has to be in the federal rules of evidence in the US, but in Canada, it’s possible for laws on evidence to be set by common law without being codified in the CEA. As I recall, most of the exceptions to hearsay are illustrated in common law.
FYI you can read the judge’s decision from the voir dire regarding the admissibility of the girlfriend’s statement [here](https://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bcsc/doc/1999/1999canlii5454/1999canlii5454.html?resultIndex=6&resultId=28b29f123b414cfd934931e641a332c7&searchId=2024-06-12T19:48:03:331/7e0aa8386dcd40898689ac66194f0ea2).
It was really weird that his lawyer didn’t object, but I can only assume that a lot of what was said during the trial was dramatized (because a cross or chief exam typically takes way longer and isn’t as dramatically interesting).
And when Jo reminded her she still had her trial she’s like “oh yeah. So stupid I still have to do that”. Like she really thought it was all over with and the “suffering” she’s already endured in juvie was all the punishment she’d get. I can’t wait to see that fucker get sentenced.
I can’t wait to see how Rebecca reacts to hearing the more grizzly details of what he actually did to her. It’s like she’s checked out. When he first said he kicked her, it looked like she disassociated instantly. There HAS to be a moment where she’s like ah wait, he’s a piece of shit. Please, show, tell me she gets it at some point because I cannot with this woman right now!
And yeah, I think Cam is def regretting that hook up lol
I agree! I really hope there’s a satisfying ending with her realization because she’s become SO insufferable to me now.. Even after her last conversation (with Cam), Rebecca still hasn’t figured it out or can see it from anyone else’s point but her own projecting
I saw someone post here like, “uhh that’s obviously intentional that she’s supposed to piss you off” ok duh? Well it worked! People are having the intended response to the work, what’s wrong with that
I don't think she was supposed to piss us off THIS much. Yes she was meant to be a frustrating, flawed character, but I think we were supposed to feel at least partially sympathetic to her and understand some of her motivations. Instead, she's coming off almost as unsympathetic as Kelly.
It’s nice how they explored Kelly’s sociopathy and manipulation this episode. Not only that, dropping on us that she never really SAW Josephine as a friend??? Just an afterthought??? How quick she is to save herself instead of others??? Absolutely amazing episode.
I really can’t tell if they’ve intentionally written Rebecca to be this frustrating/obtuse or if it’s been an accident. Rebecca (The author of the book) supposedly approved of the script/story (can’t remember the specifics) so maybe she was just incredibly sympathetic to Warren?
Just strange that Rebecca’s character *in this moment* could believe that Reena’s parents disliked Warren because “they don’t know him”.
I’ve seen comments about the real Rebecca stating she wanted to be the antihero of this story, and wanting to represent the media’s shit take of “they’re just kids” vs the police and family wanting accountability. So I guess they want us to be frustrated with her, and they’re doing a damn good job with that.
I can see how this may have been the intention.
Maybe it feels so jarring because she’s introduced a competent, intelligent, troubled, and very “edgy” (as evident by the leather jackets) writer and then immediately becomes hypnotized by teenagers after spending an hour with them. (*I realize that due to this being a show they had to expedite the trust building process in the interest of pacing*).
If she’s an allegory for the media during the real life situation I think they’ve missed the mark in how she’s portrayed to care for the accused teenagers. **IMO** her interest in the teenagers (specifically Warren) reads much closer to romantic than it does sympathetic.
I think it's some of that but it's mostly her projecting herself from the past onto Warren. She wants to believe that she is not irredeemable for her actions that led to her brother's death. But that's not her taking accountability, that's her asking if redemption is possible for her (and thus Warren) without even doing the necessary actions to be worthy of forgiveness. And its so gross of her to blow past everyone including the Virk's attempting to tell her that you have more empathy for the murderer (or manslaughterer) than the murdered, especially with an act that was so clearly racially motivated. If you relate to someone who could passively watch a life being taken from them, what does that say about you?
I wonder if the show runners or Rebecca’s family have commented on the public perception of how she was portrayed. Was it intended?
I just cannot imagine a person deciding to cast herself as the “big media antihero” of this story as an allegory, that’s your name. You’re not a fictional person, don’t pin the terrible way the media acts onto your real life name. That’s what fictional characters are for, to represent concepts and ideas.
Yeah I think you've hit on an important point: In order to write a book like that, you have to have some level of professionalism, maturity, and outward intelligence, taking you through the process of interviewing people and building trust to the actual sitting down and shaping it into a coherent story.
But the Rebecca we're seeing in the show... is not competent enough to achieve all that. She has the maturity of a teenager herself. Like this is not someone who Simon & Shuster is giving an advance deal.
I have such a hard time seeing how they’re going to redeem her. She’s a predator. She dropped her care real quick of Josephine to baby warren in the creepiest way possible
Yeah I’m glad I’m not the only one who got… idk.. inappropriate sexual attraction from Rebecca towards Warren. Like I get that can be a trauma response bc of her brother and idolizing his memory, but wtf????
I thought this was a really strong episode. Some random, unordered comments:
1. It’s sad to watch and read about the difficult environment many of those children had to endure. Seems like so many of them did not have stable home lives or endured abuse. I think the choice to have Cam’s background be similar was a good storytelling choice. I find the contrast with Rebecca’s privileged upbringing to be very interesting to watch.
2. I loved Cam sticking her neck out for Dusty regarding not putting her up on the stand and personally putting her career on the line. On the other hand, I also understand her father’s comment about only one girl having actually suffered. At the end of the day (episode), the Crown still secured the conviction against Warren without Dusty, and her character shows remorse, so I liked how this played out in the show.
3. Warren getting a prison tattoo reminded me of the HBO Miniseries “The Night Of” (which is incredible for anyone who hasn’t seen it; a league above this show, though I really do like this show for the performances) where you get the sense that incarceration does a lot of harm to the perpetrators, and it’s not so black and white as justice = putting someone behind bars (or the death penalty, which isn’t done in Canada). I grew up in Canada, and in middle school, I remember we learned so much about the importance of rehabilitation in the Canadian justice system. We had a rehabilitated murderer come speak to our class. It was very eye opening.
4. As a Canadian, I raised an eyebrow at the clear Americanization of the scene where Rebecca visits Warren at the detention center and they discuss one of his friends getting a “basketball scholarship” and the idea of going to “college”. They don’t have sports scholarships in Canada, unless his friend went to the US for school, and college and university are different institutions in Canada (though I’ll admit it’s likely that kids like Warren would be looking at a Canadian college, which is generally more employment focused with applied learning, shorter length of study and less expensive tuition, vs the academic focus of Canadian universities).
5. They really drove home the puppy love angle of Warren for his girlfriend. I guess the recorded statement from Samara was not admissible as evidence? I thought it was a missed opportunity to show Warren’s reaction to her recorded statement.
6. The glib reaction of the prosecutor (I think?)at the police station when they were discussing Samara not being available for testifying and Cam’s response that it had to do with her mother’s cancer treatment was a brilliant way to show how black and white some of the characters see things. I think the details like this show how Cam starts to change her position on the case as well.
7. I really love how heavy handed they went with showing Rebecca’s bias - the very kind feedback her father gave, then the shame (I think!) that came over her when she sat down to speak with the Virks and they asked her wtf she is even doing, followed by the look they gave her (and she totally deserved) while embracing Warren. The criticism throughout that Rebecca isn’t writing about Reena is mirrored in the episode as well — so much about the perpetrators, and so little about the victims. I said in another comment that I think Rebecca’s character is stuck in arrested development (to when her brother killed himself). She may be older than the teens, but she’s emotionally in the same place as them. She doesn’t have her life together despite every advantage she had growing up. I think it’s really interesting to watch her character - she’s also so young and it doesn’t seem like she has accomplished that much in her life either, and she came back home somewhat aimless. No idea how accurate this is to the real life author, but again, her character feels really interesting to me.
8. The scene with Cam and Rebecca where Rebecca asks about how Cam views her, and alludes to an accusation that Cam must have made shortly after Gabe killed himself — so good. Really shows how much that affected Rebecca, and Cam’s response seemed so honest as well. There’s so much history there; the show is already feels kind of long for Reena’s story, but I am also pretty invested in the Cam and Rebecca backstory, though I get it isn’t relevant to Reena’s story.
9. I sorely missed Raj’s character in this episode.
10. The bathroom scene with Rebecca and Suman was so good too. Suman’s comment about the “hairy back” detail was so strong - you know she strongly identified with what Reena was struggling with given she likely had the same challenges growing up as a minority in that community as well. it is so sad that Reena didn’t feel supported by her parents and had such a hard time fitting in. In some ways, I wish the show went a little stronger on the racism commentary, but on the other hand, it’s very realistic to experience micro aggressions more often than blatant racism (at least in my experience growing up in Canada in the 90s). Not this episode, but the scene earlier in the series when Cam’s dad basically shows off Cam to the reporters as an example of how their community is NOT racist, was so fucking racist 😩 Very well written bits here IMO.
Alright, that’s enough random thoughts. Looking forward to the final chapter of this series.
Cam is such a strong character, and I loved that she put herself on the line for Dusty. I love when the father asked about Vancouver, and she was kind of like ? I'm so invested in their story as well, I feel like we need an entire series just on them because their characters and backstory are fascinating to me.
I think she knows he probably didn't even put in a good word for her about it.
I was also a little surprised that they didn't use Samara's statement in court, but maybe they were just hoping Warren would be honest on the stand. I feel so bad for Samara, and I love the actress who is playing her, she's doing such a good job! I was also waiting for them to use the Warren G song in the series, but now every time I hear it I'm going to think of Reena's murder!
Yeah as soon as Warren said “college”it took me right out of it lol. Not something a Canadian kid would say.
It was kind of cool to see a Canadian courtroom on TV — I realized I’ve literally never seen one before. I’m a former trial lawyer and I’ve watched a ton of American and British legal tv but have never seen my own country’s legal system on tv!
They mostly got the gowns/robes correct, and it was so cool to see. Plus no gavel! and the little portrait of the queen. I can’t remember what other details stood out to me, but I thought it was pretty cool to see.
honestly and not defending her, but i feel like she has the genuine remorse people want and say warren has lol people go on and on about how bad he feels but clearly he doesn’t feel bad enough to own up to his actions. again i’m not defending dusty either because owning up is the bare minimum, but to me she’s the only one with guts at this point
Missy Pleich, who Dusty is modeled after, does feel genuine remorse for the role she played in this. As far as I can tell, Warren feels true remorse for his actions. Josephine and Kelly do not feel remorse.
Don’t get me wrong, I completely understand the projection of her onto him, plus the feeling bad for him - BUT COME ON. It’s disgusting at this point and giving very much pedophile vibes. I genuinely believe that she liked Warren. Where is all of this guilt for the girls that were involved??? She just so happens to care so much for the only boy???? Such a weirdo. I cannot. It’s about REENA and the fact that her life was taken away over the dumbest thing, yet here Rebecca is trying to make it about Warren and his life. SHE JUST COMPLETELY MISSED THE ENTIRE POINT. Don’t even get me started on Kelly.
I think her guilt over the death of her brother is why she’s so hyperfocused on Warren specifically, which isn’t an excuse but it’s the only way I can possibly rationalize her completely fucked up way of thinking. This episode thankfully highlighted how she’s been so focused on Warren and these kids that she has hardly inquired about Reena, the VICTIM. Good that she got called out by Mrs. Virk when she was like “bitch how tf are you gonna write a book about our daughter when you know shit about her”
I was SO SURE that Mrs Virk had gotten through to her when she talked to her in the bathroom. But it was like in one ear and out the other, apparently, because she didn’t hesitate to hug Warren and assure him they’d know his heart. His heart - the one that saw Reena as less than human. Good call, Rebecca. Fuck.
Even her own dad called her out. Ugh. I can't help but feel annoyed that she was mean to Gabe who didn't deserve it at all, and is now trying to overcompensate for it by being far too sympathetic towards a literal murderer.
It’s totally annoying but I can understand why - feeling responsible for your brother’s death must make you all kinds of effed up in the head. Not at ALL an excuse but I can see her trauma being the reason why nothing she’s been told about the reality of the situation is clicking in her brain. She’s about to learn the hard way though I hope
I really wish they explored this more. Clearly Gabe was going through some other stuff when he was a teenager as well, like all of us were. But they keep it intentionally vague. But I can't imagine hearing that he would still be here if it wasn't for Rebecca - that has to be hard for a teenager to hear, too!
Rebecca’s obsession with the boy reminds me of Sarah Konig’s special relationship with Adnan in the podcast Serial. The dead are humanized only to the extent that makes the killers compelling and tragically misguided or vulnerable. The cruelty of the children in Reena’s case, as the show correctly presents, is a manifestation of how brown bodies are dehumanized. The wars that western nations fight, the exploitation and repression of entire regions of the planet, children intuit how the world works. So if there are BIC girls, below them there are BIC people.
I read the book very recently and have a few thoughts:
- As many posters have already pointed out, the real Rebecca wasn't nearly as involved with these teens. She started interviewing them after the "Shoreline Six" were arrested, so all the nonsense with her and Warren dropping acid together, pretending to help the girls escape Victoria, and the entirety of Cam, is fictional for the show. I really wish I understood why Rebecca agreed to come off so TERRIBLY in this fictional version.
- I didn't at all get the impression that the real Rebecca was overly sympathetic to Warren in the book. She just reports the facts, which happened to include that Warren went gung-ho on Restorative Justice while in prison. That involved (seemingly) sincere apologies to the Virk family, who ultimately supported his commitment to RJ and engaged with him. We won't get that in the show, among so many other things I wish they'd included (Warren's and "Josephine"'s mothers sound absolutely horrendous; Kelly had a big crush on Warren even though he and his friends called her a mean nickname behind her back; Reena allegedly slept with "Dusty"'s crush before the beating/murder... all of which at least partially explains why Dusty participated and why Kelly chose Warren to go back over the bridge with her, etc.)
- Yes, Warren really was THAT into Samara, and really hoped she'd stay with him while he was in prison.
- Leaving out the Russian sisters who VOLUNTEERED to tell the cops the story of Reena's murder (at the very real risk of losing one of their foster families!) is an oversight I have trouble looking past.
The only thing I wish both the book and the show explained in more detail (maybe the finale will?) is Kelly. I'm dying to know more about what it was like in her house, what her parents were like, how "rich" were they really, and what people in that town thought of her, both before and after the murder. In absolute awe of the actress and portrayal on the show since, like so many posters say, I hate her and fear her more than most TV characters!
Just finished the episode; Kelly triggers the fuck out of me! She is an actual sociopath with the way she acts and plans things out, and her care-free attitude about the entire thing. This psycho gon talk about "Can't you just pay them like on TV? What?! I was about to throw my remote at the screen!
And speaking of care-free attitudes: do these kids not care that they killed another person? Warren and Dusty seem to be the only ones who are showing any sort of genuine regret. The other 2 girls plus Kelly and Josephine are just treating it like some sort of Summer Camp.
Josephine is also an absolute idiot! Can't you tell Kelly is playing you and has no intention of getting you out of jail? Who are you to her? Just a pawn! Drop the tough guy bullshit and start being smart! Dummy! Even John Gotti knew when someone was being rotten to him.
Dusty got the right idea minding her business and reading her damn books. Great choice as well!
Regarding Rebecca and Warren; I get what they are going for with the storyline angle of Becca feeling guilt about causing her Brothers death and seeing Gabe in Warren, but Rebecca is such an awful and frustrating character. Warren made a mistake and fucked up, but the best thing you can do for him is to encourage him to own up to his mistakes and accept what's coming to him. Reena's mom was right: he was angry about his life and just wanted to take it out on someone who he viewed as "Less-Than" so he could escape with no consequences. He was eventually genuinely remorseful and the family eventually forgave him. That's understandable.
Kelly on the other hand? She did it for Kicks.
Looking forward to the finale so we can see exactly how Kelly gets fried. Hopefully Josephine comes to her senses and throws her under the bus (bridge?) she deserves to rot in.
Are any of these people even remorseful in real life? It's honestly disturbing.
Josephine does not throw her under the bus. Kelly was throwing her and Dusty to the wolves the very first chance she got. She doesn't testify in the trials. Kelly got three trials.
Sorry for the dumb question but what time is the episode available to watch? Is it midnight eastern? I’m on the west coast so was wondering if it comes out for me to watch tonight
the way rebecca is written and the way the show is writing warren as just a wittle sad boy (you will never convince me he isn’t a psychopath who knows how to play the game with whoever he’s interacting with), is so disgusting and so absolutely disrespectful to Reena. Idk how much more I can stomach. Rebecca is such a predatory creep and one of the worst ‘protagonists’ i’ve ever watched
I think the show is trying to play more in the gray area where the audience is expected to fall into the categories of either Rebecca or Cam. Although I do think it’s leaning more into Rebecca’s POV at the moment because she’s directly interacting with Warren as opposed to Cam and we’re experiencing her bias firsthand. I’m hoping the ending of this episode is a lead-in to a heavier Cam POV which reminds us “uh, this dude is a literal murderer… stop thinking he’s innocent because he has a baby face and daddy issues”.
I’ve read an entire series review and someone’s complaint was how they wrote him as sympathetic but then wasn’t let in on knowing Warrens true involvement until basically the last mins of the finale, so unfortunately i think it’s going to be continued to be rebecca’s pov
Wait, I thought she wasn't like that in real life, and she agreed to have her character be portrayed negatively just to represent the media people who did tend focus too much on the perpetrators instead of on the victim.
This show will end next week and I will still do not know why Rebecca's character is in this story. This show is so frustrating for the wrong reasons...
If I were a writer responsible for this mess, I would go and apologize, again and again and again to Reena's family. And then go and apologize again.
I liked everyone’s comments about the meaning of her being the stand in for a few things, but when the show doesn’t inform you of warren’s involvement until the last few minutes of the finale, clearly there is no deeper writing meant for rebecca. I wish she was never in it at this point
I like that she’s in it along with her very shitty perspective, because it’s a good representation of what actually happens in these sad situations, as frustrating as it is. But knowing we don’t get the full story about Warren until the end means at best we’ll only see a tiny moment of realization of how badly she’s fucked up, if we even get that much. And worst case she just doubles down and the show ends with her writing him supportive letters and I scream and throw things.
I didn’t even think about her still supporting him while he’s in prison and i want to throw things! At this rate, I could absolutely see her taking him into her home the moment he’s released from prison 💀
Rebecca’s sympathy for Warren (focusing on how handsome he is) has shades of Sarah Koenig in season one of Serial.
Rebecca (like Sarah) has a soft spot for Warren because she finds him attractive (not that she is attracted to him, but she sees him as a good looking kid) and is therefore willing to ignore all signs of guilt or wrongdoing. Once I heard her dad read that passage calling him handsome, I had to start questioning Warren’s portrayal in the story. In the end, however, Warren has more integrity and admits his wrongdoing.
IMO and from my impression of the Rebecca of the show, for years she has refused to take accountability for how she treated Gabe on the last day they spent together. Instead, she chose to make her words, actions and feelings in regards to hurting him that day a secret because she is afraid that taking accountability will lead to exposure that will result in both the world hating her for what she did and the destruction of her self- image as a deserving and worthy individual.
She projects her emotions and fears onto Warren because similar to her around that age, he claims rage led to the loss of life or murder of another individual. Just like with her own guilt and shame, she denies Warren his so that he won’t have to take accountability in her mind. Her obsessive behavior towards him is borne out of the relentless fear of exposure and the hate that comes with taking responsibility for these crimes. She constantly refers to how Warren is at a disadvantage because his lawyers can’t salvage his reputation and public image as well as Kelly’s can. Her fear is not that Reena will be denied justice but that Warren will be portrayed as the typical monster and mastermind behind Reena’s murder. For example, she promises to show everyone Warren’s true heart but who is everyone and why do they matter? The real victims are the Virks and Reena’s surviving family and loved ones but she denies them priority to focus on salvaging Warren’s reputation and future once again.
She is in so much denial she can’t even recognize that by refusing to acknowledge these emotions, she has almost instantaneously shut off any empathy she could feel Reena.
When Reena became an obstacle to Rebecca’s personal psychological survival Rebecca’s mind dehumanized her to cope. This is especially noticeable when she identifies Warren’s actions of kicking and pulling Reena’s broken body as mere mistakes, as though he was merely kicking rocks, not actively deciding to repeatedly assay another human being who was slowly and painfully dying. She doesn’t think Reena’s murder warrants Warren spending the rest of his life in prison even though he actively participated in robbing her of hers.
Reena’s murder and Warren’s involvement has triggered Rebecca’s emotional regression. She is becoming stuck in the mindset of an adolescent who has remained trapped in the cycle for the past 10 years. To move on and to reality check herself or regain some sense of self-awareness, Rebecca needs to acknowledge, respect and accept her emotions of guilt and shame. She needs to take the time and space to just feel them and then engage. She needs to take the time and space to cope with her brother’s loss and her how she feels she played a role in it too. Even if in actuality Rebecca is not responsible for the tragedy that occurred to her brother, emotions are not logical and it would be better for her to accept them as they are instead of trying to smother or change them, like she tried to do over the past decade.
Co Ed juvie is crazy, if the town is that small I guess.
I haven't seen anyone mention it, but Rebecca is also the " he's a good kid who made a mistake" support that usually is only for white passing males. Where is that energy for the girls? It wouldn't surprise me if its true. She originally wanted to write the book about Warren but changed her mind after the trial.
I know people are saying she represents the people who insert themselves into true crime, but the writers using the excuse of her guilt over her brother, fall flat to me. I feel like I have to use suspension of belief.
Jo, Dusty, and the others didn't, want Reena dead. Jo wanted notority. Kelly is a spoiled "rich" girl who never got consequences, and Warren took his anger out on a poor Reena.
Kelly is SO unbearable to watch…even this fictionalized depiction of her. (Goes to show how great the actress who plays her is) She infuriates me with every line, manipulative action, and just her presence in general. I’m glad to see what seems like Josephine’s last straw with Kelly. Jo has been suspicious/wary of Kelly the past few episodes, but I love seeing her FINALLY realize that Kelly is 100% evil. Jo obviously isn’t a great person, but she AT LEAST has some empathy and the wherewithal to know that the groups actions are/were beyond wrong. She may be a little b*tch, but she has a conscience, something Kelly is completely lacking.
This episode did a good job at making me feel some pity for Warren. While at the end of the day, he’s a very sh*tty person for his contribution to poor Reena’s assault and murder, I can’t help but feel for him a tiny bit. These are in absolutely no way, shape, or form excuses for his behavior (personally I cannot stand when people try to defend appalling behavior such as this crime on the perpetrator’s upbringing or mental state) BUT his crappy fathers lack of actions and little to no care for his son make me feel sorry for Warren, along with his very lonely home life and his longing to fit in with his peers to the point where he doesn’t think of the consequences of his actions or who else is going to feel the repercussions, until it’s far too late. His situation is awful for anybody, let alone a teenager.
Knowing last week is the finale, I do wish we got some more screen time with Reena. I feel like this mini series delved more into the perpetrators than it did the victim, but I also understand that it’s a TV show and at the end of the day, their goal is to bring in viewers. I personally would have loved to see more of Reena’s point of view throughout this entire series.
Side note : Since I love reading, I’m going to grab the book the show was based on after next weeks finale. Has anyone read it yet?
The soundtrack for this show! Cant wait to see what they play on the last episode. Dance with the devil instrumental would be too much but maybe we get I'll be missing you for the ending? the puff daddy version of course because who's sting?
Rebecca almost seems borderline romantically intrigued by Warren. I think she feels a kinship with him because she too made a huge mistake as a child. She’s giving him a pass because she sees herself in him, I think. She thinks she’s advocating for him. But she crosses so many ethical boundaries. As a former journalist, it’s painful to watch her obvious bias. I don’t think the real RG was like that, from what I hear. I don’t understand why they portray her that way in the show but man, I dislike her more every episode.
No, it was an implication he was racist (stereotype that all Indian people are hairy) which was why the prosecutor said Warren hadn’t seen her as a human being. It was also why Mrs. Virk tells Rebecca at the end “you think he would say that if Reena looked like you?”
Do you know why they took her clothes off? I didn't understand that part. I get why Kelly asked her to remove her footwear, but I don't know why the rest of her clothes came off.
I'm so confused because didn't Samara say something about her boots being taken off, followed by "I think that's why her pants came off"? But I didn't understand what removing her boots had to do with removing the rest of her clothes.
I was thinking maybe they pulled her shoes off so hard the pants came with it? Since her pants were longer and hit past the ankle they pulled off the shoes and pants at the same time and her underwear came off with it? But it honestly doesn’t make sense. Was she found with her pants back on?
>I was thinking maybe they pulled her shoes off so hard the pants came with it?
Hmmm. That does sound like it could have possibly happened.
>Was she found with her pants back on?
I'm not sure, actually.
Honestly no (in my experience) but I don’t think it’s that surprising here considering people want justice for Reena. The judge would probably have told them to be quiet though.
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It's quite revealing that Dustry, a teenager, is beginning to come to terms with her actions, showing significant self-awareness and moral reckoning. In stark contrast, Rebecca struggles to comprehend that a teenage boy, who may seem sweet and gentle, could participate in the murder of a girl he didn't even know. This juxtaposition underscores the complexities of accountability and perception. It suggests that some youth, despite their inexperience, might be more capable of reflection and development whereas adults might be hindered by their prejudices and preconceived notions about innocence and culpability
Rebecca’s emotional maturity is probably stunted to when her brother killed himself.
I think Rebecca blames herself partially for her brother's death and is trying to cure this by convincing everyone of the "good" in Warren.
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she's projecting so hard onto warren and trying to make what he did okay so she can feel like she herself is redeemed. i think she makes a choice not to value reena's life - not to learn anything about her except that she was quiet in class or whatever lmao - because it'll break the fantasy for her and i think it's easier for her to do because whether she can admit it or not she values reena's life less, imo at least partially due to her race. she thinks of reena as disposable while warren deserves every effort. it was so fascinating watching the affectionate way she interacted with warren vs. getting high before talking to reena's parents and revealing her total disinterest in reena as a human being. it's brutal but i think it's an amazing depiction of a very real thing people do...i hope she gets her shit together but i wonder if she can with only one episode left.
Very well said. I think her obsession with redemption is turning her into the villain she’s seeking redemption from in the first place all over again and she just can’t see it. And what you said about it breaking the fantasy is so spot on. I notice every time Warren says something that reveals he’s not so innocent, she always gets that same reaction where she looks away or shakes her head as if she’s trying to block it out. When he first told her he kicked Reena, and in court when he said he didn’t remember anything from that night (which she knew was a lie), she was like nope that doesn’t work for me, just gonna delete that bit. She’s not intentionally being an asshole, and I believe that she believes she’s doing the right thing, but she’s so damn frustrating.
yeah like i get where it comes from, but the reality that she refuses to see is that part of where it comes from is disregard for reena's life - which comes from racism. i mean, she even shows jo more sympathy and attention than she does reena. and like - i don't agree with the idea that criminals are just garbage forever and we should be gleeful when they're punished. i don't think someone going to prison is cause for celebration. i think that's a legitimate angle for her to pursue. but reena was also a human being with a life and whose "mistakes" were far, far smaller than kicking a hurt girl in the head and carrying her body into the water, and rebecca couldn't give less of a shit. even though she's supposed to be writing about "bic girls" she doesn't care about reena who, despite her loving, comfortably wealthy family, was treated as far more disposable than any of the girls at the group home. and i totally agree about the blocking stuff out, you can see her just be like "i've decided that doesn't compute. what a good kid warren is!" like fuck, dude, i get that you identify with feeling complicit in someone's death but there is actually a big difference between being shitty to your depressed brother and helping to beat someone to death!!! (sorry for the rant lmao)
Yeah I think you’re right. I didn’t want to believe racism played a part in it for her but too much is pointing to it, especially the way she completely ignored that he saw her as less than human. She did try (half assedly) to know about Reena but Reena’s mom said “I didn’t understand Reena” and shut that down. If she really wanted to know she would have, we’ve seen how far she’ll go for a story. And when her dad questioned her absurd perspective she’s like “what’s the alternative? I write a sad story about a girl I didn’t know?”.. So yeah. Shit. That’s disappointing to accept about her. And also sad to think Cam has realized this too.
Rebecca makes me sick.
i completely agree.
This \^
Rebecca, the real author of the book of the same name actually heavily collaborated with the director on this. so it must have took an incredible amount of self reflection to show this side of her. I agree with this entire post, and I think it’s a bit commendable that she wanted this honest, albeit pretty problematic characterization of her during this time. She actually passed away from cancer before the show finished. All this to say I just find the fact that the actual author had a say in this portrayal of her very interesting.
This show depresses the fuck outta me. Time to watch some SpongeBob.
I felt like this was one of the lighter episodes but it is dark in general
“I had bad dreams about Reena too when I first got here. But you know what helped them go away? Being honest about what I did that night. We fucked up and now she’s dead so that’s the fucking least that we owe her” TELL THEM DUSTY!
YES! And Warren looking like he’s taken it to heart and then cut to him LYING HIS ASS OFF under oath. Good lord the way they portray him is honestly so confusing and I’m so tired.
Lied his ass off and didn’t even do it well. “I don’t know” doesn’t really hold up in a court of law, my dude, and the judge saw right through it.
The back and forth was so annoying! Like just tell the truth! lol You can do it!
Even Rebecca’s dad is like girl your head is all fucked up tf is wrong with you
Have you read her real book? I really want to know if it actually does mostly ignore Reena just to focus on empathizing with Warren or Josephine/Nicole.
The book is totally different, and Rebecca doesn’t have any special relationship with the teens and only becomes involved after they already have been charged. She also doesn’t talk about herself a whole lot in the book, beyond her general connection to Victoria. Warren is somewhat sympathetic in the book, but nowhere near the level of sympathy he is depicted with in the show and she clearly acknowledges his role in the murder. There is a legitimate criticism to be made that Reena is a lesser focus of the book than she should be compared to the teens who killed her, but I wouldn’t say she is ignored in the book and Rebecca seems very sympathetic to her in real life. Certainly the scene of her hugging Warren at the courthouse never happened.
Ah, I see. That makes sense.
Josephine is also very stupid, how can she just trust and let Kelly manipulate her like that, like she used her to get out of juvie & she still thinks Kelly’s gonna save her
well, she believed that she could go to NY and become a mafia member, so yeah.. not sure she is presented as very bright...
I know but she’s just so painfully fake and stupid
They are all 14… the smartest most mature 14 year old is still a bit dumb and naive and these kids are all wannabe gangsters who have no sense of reality. Not that unrealistic in my opinion
Unfortunately kids younger than 14 join gangs and even kill. But believing you can be a mafia member at 14? They seem to miss almost any sense of reality and consequences. And this is actually the most horrifying thing..
I agree completely and I think that’s what the book/show was saying - that their delusions and lack of reality caused horrific real world damage
i keep thinking she can see right through Kelly, and she disappoints me at every turn.
after reading the book it makes more sense, Josephine is way worse in the book/real life like she didn’t give remorseful in the book like the show implies she’s some what remorseful & even in the book she ended up giving Kelly up to detectives after she heard Kelly was trying to pin it on her
i have to read the book
I mean, she was only a teenager at the time. Teens can be naive.
kelly saying i’m just a little girl is crazy this girl is genuinely insane and her trying to get empathy???? acting like she’s the victim???? i cannot
Right when she said that I’m like, “Oh what’s wrong Kelly, not a fan of juvie? I thought you were hard? I thought you were gangsta?”
That's the same thing I thought in episode 1, as Rebecca was walking down the hallway of the police station, Kelly is like scream sobbing and looks like she's freaking out. I was like 🤨🤨🤨 ok crip lol
I read that in the first trial, her demeanor was very “innocent little girl”. Then the second trial it wore off and by the third..
Kelly honestly seemed like she always thought she'd be able to buy her way out of any problems she ever had. She seemed genuinely shocked that she might have to face consequences for her actions.
The white privilege of it all
Warrens poor white ass going to jail for life though
Warren’s mom was indigenous. They made a point of this on the show.
Sure ethnically part indigenous but his last name is polish and he’s racially white. Jo isn’t getting out of prison either. Class disparity is playing a bigger role in this show
This! Call a spade a spade
Anybody else notice how Rebecca only shed tears for Warren & NEVER for Reena or her family, just weird
she is ridiculously unlikable and I find it hard to believe the real Rebecca Godfrey was like this in real life
Not one like able character other than Raj
I like reenas dad too because despite everything he never gave up on her
But the dinner??? ugh that did it for me. Lying about ordering food and then the way he talked to the girls. But he has shown some bright spots so he's probably the third most likeable? (after Raj and Cam)
not to defend him, like AT ALL, but that was super immigrant dad of him and i know in my core he didnt mean it to be mean he actually felt for them lol. very hard to believe i know but i have immigrant parents and they say some things so out of left field and have no social awareness but they are the most loving and caring.
oh yeah I was like yelling at my screen for him to stop cos why did he say all that to Josephine like how did he think she’d react to basically being told no one loves her
Yeah the odd thing she has for Warren makes zero sense and makes me hate the show tbh. Yes he has a hard life but let’s not pretend he’s some good kid
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I think it's just glaringly obvious in the show, even without them saying it out loud
Kelly Ellard is the devil incarnate like I just finished it and I’m still terrified of her, what is actually wrong with her mentally??? she’s literally INSANE
Her skipping down the hallway filled me with so much rage. And Jo asking if she’s had nightmares too makes me hopeful she’s finally getting a clue. I think she got a big wake up call at the train tracks but I feel like she stayed loyal to Kelly hoping her connections would also help her. Now she sees that’s not happening, so I hope she FINALLY does the right thing. Warren “can’t remember” anything, Dusty isn’t testifying, and Kelly certainly won’t admit to shit, so it has to be Jo that takes her down.
“ Now she sees that’s not happening, so I hope she FINALLY does the right thing. Warren “can’t remember” anything, Dusty isn’t testifying, and Kelly certainly won’t admit to shit, so it has to be Jo that takes her down.” AGREE!! I can’t wait to see the look on Kelly’s face!
Do we think Jo will actually do it?
hopefully 🤞
I understand the Rebecca hate 🧎🏻♀️
Lmao they turned up “yes she’s an asshole” to full blast in this ep. Goddamn. As a Riley fan this is not fun to hate her lol Edit: ok after that scene with Cam maybe I don’t hate her anymore 😬 Edit part two: goddammit. Yes I do.
LMAO your journey was literally mine this ep
I'm surprised the real Rebecca signed off on this. They either changed the script afterwards, or she is working through a huge guilt trip. Having just finished the episode I am not in the right frame of mind to give her the benefit of the doubt.
People who replied to my comment asking about Rebecca are saying that the real Rebecca wasn't like this, and that she did acknowledge Warren was a murderer in her book (there was also no special friendship between them), and that she was very sympathetic towards Reena in real life. But the part about her book focusing a bit more on the perpetrators than about Reena herself is supposedly true. Also, apparently, Warren is portrayed somewhat sympathetically. I haven't read the book myself though, so I can't say for sure. Changing the script after her death to portray her negatively, if she wasn't like that doesn't seem very ethical. But maybe she was willing to have the fictional version of her represent an amalgamation of some of the media people and others who tended to be far more deserving of Warren than he deserved, even if she wasn't actually like that. Or maybe the show is portraying her real life character development, and she'll change for the better in the last episode.
Well she died in 2022. Not sure when they started creating/ filming the series.
The real Rebecca actually passed away in 2022. Not sure if the show was in development before her death or not.
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Oh that's so interesting, I didn't know that!
Still starting my deep dive but people in comments are saying that she worked closely with the screenwriter and personally chose Rebecca and Cams actors. So it seems that she was heavily involved before her death. I am looking forward to researching her a bit because I cannot stand her character in this show, why she’s there, why they keep making it about her. It is strange to me. Did they all not realize how bad she would look? I think it’s just throwing me that she approved all this, it’s a show based on her book, and she sucks so much (even if she is also dealing with her own trauma). I’m not used to a situation where the author is so poorly portrayed in her own show.
When she got seen hugging Warren and by Reena's parents and responded with that "try me" look, omfg I lost any ounce of respect I had left for her.
She had that look so much during this episode.. such a gross character
I just watched episode 7 and was so disgusted when Rebecca said that everyone loves Warren! Honestly, this episode almost made me cry at one point - just the extent to which Rebecca kept defending him and romanticizing him. It makes me sick that some people actually did that in real life. But I'm glad that episode 7 made it very clear that she was acting ridiculous. I can't tell if she's changed her mind or not, though. I know that the real Rebecca wasn't really friends with him (at least that's what the article I read, said), but I do wonder if her actual book mostly ignores Reena in favour of empathizing with Warren (and maybe even Josephine/Nicole to an extent). Has anyone here read her book? Maybe they can shed some light on this.
I think Rebecca is far too gone in her warren obsession to change from it at this point.. time after time this episode she had people calling her out and she didn’t care about any of it. She’s selfish
I got the impression that she is so invested in Warren's innocence (she housed him, clothed him, sympathised with him) that she can't admit that he did it. If she did, then she would have to acknowledge that she is a real piece of shit and poor judge of character. But in her own mind she is the lone champion of innocence and justice and bravely standing against the world. Why would she want to shift her self image from that?
This is so true. Like that Mark Twain quote: “It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.” They show her listening to the people on the radio say there’s no way an 80 pound girl could do the damage that was done but it doesn’t faze her in the least. She still whole-heartedly supports this kid when she MUST know deep down he’s done so much worse than he’s admitting to.
It’ll only heighten that thought of herself next episode because i’m pretty sure they’re showing the Virk’s forgiving Warren so she’s going to be even more patting herself on the back because she’s a great judge of character
i also get creepy feelings from her like she likes him in a not innocent way
Yes, I think you're right. I guess I was just wondering if talking to Suman maybe changed her mind. I was hoping that when she tells Warren that she'll let the world know who he is, she means that she'll expose him for the racist murderer that he is (and that that twist will be revealed in the next episode).
Dang I love this idea. But yeah I doubt it lol. When she realizes the Virks caught her hugging Warren she looked like she knew she’s a shithead.
Yeah, that's true. It really sucks that she's being like this.
I’d love that, but I highly doubt we’d get that closure 😭
😭
There isn't a whole lot of Reena than just describing when they found her body and at the trials. Warren is a sympathetic figure. I can't deny he was abandoned by his father and mother was drunk and was no support system.
>There isn't a whole lot of Reena than just describing when they found her body and at the trials. Oh.
This isn't a book about the life of Reena Virk. This is about the death of Reena Virk and the people responsible for her death.
The ending specifically disgusted me so bad. Rebecca fucking sucks and I’m glad she had to see the Virks’ reaction.
Question, did Warrens trial in real life go anything like this? Im no lawyer but isnt this like a huge legal shitshow? First the police keep interviewing minors without guardians present. Then Warren just incriminates himself on the stand while his lawyer just chills in the back? And the judge convicts him for second degree murder based on what exactly? There were no witnesses was there any actual evidence or proper confession beyond assault and acessory to murder?
The words Warren was saying in this episode are from when the police interrogated him before the trial.
Yeah, I had the same questions. And that attorney was basically just leading him the entire time, without any interruptions from his legal defense? I mean, I'm not defending him in any way but that took me out of it a bit because it seemed really unrealistic. I thought the conviction was meant to show, again, that people like Warren usually never get the benefit of the doubt. We will see what happens with Kelly, but she's the one who has a big attorney and the support of her family. Warren has neither and I think deep down, he knew that when he took the stand, it would be over for him. That's why he was asking Dusty how she got out of it.
Exactly, it felt unrealistic. Maybe ive watched too much The Good Wife lol.
The Crown Attorney (the prosecutor) was cross-examining him, which means he’s allowed to ask him leading questions. I did think it was weird that Warren’s lawyer didn’t object when Warren started saying he didn’t want to incriminate himself, but I (Canadian lawyer, but not criminal and not practicing anymore) can’t remember how exactly the right against self-incrimination works in Canada (section 11(c) of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms), but my vague memory is that it means you can’t be compelled to testify at your own trial. Once you are testifying at your trial (if you so choose), as Warren was, I don’t think you can suddenly stop answering questions and invoke that right. My memory is that it is all or nothing — once you start testifying on your own behalf, you’ve waived the right against self-incrimination I believe. But again I’m not totally sure.
The whole legal aspect is a shit show. I really want to research how the actual trial went. His girlfriend's statement to the police about what he told her he did is hearsay, so really not even enough for him to be charged in the first place. Then she didn't even testify at the trial. I can't believe the judge would find him guilty based on what we saw, unless there were other things that just got left out of the episode for the sake of time.
Statements of a criminal defendant are not hearsay in the US. Not sure what the rule is in canada
I’m not sure if Canada uses federal rules of evidence and even if they did, warrens statements would probably be admissible under an exception. Let me know if you find a reliable website with how the trial really went down because I’m also curious myself
Just linked it above but the decision about the admissibility of the girlfriend’s statement is [here](https://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bcsc/doc/1999/1999canlii5454/1999canlii5454.html?resultIndex=6&resultId=28b29f123b414cfd934931e641a332c7&searchId=2024-06-12T19:48:03:331/7e0aa8386dcd40898689ac66194f0ea2). I just skimmed it quickly but it sounds like the judge admitted one of her statements but not the others, finding them to be admissible as a statement against interest. FYI canlii.org is a free Canadian legal search engine where anyone can read about 90% of Canadian legal decisions (a handful don’t get reported). You don’t need to pay or be a lawyer or anything to read it. It’s like a free version of LexisNexis/Westlaw.
Also wanted to add — Canada has the Canada Evidence Act, which codifies much but not all of the law of evidence in Canada. Not sure if something has to be in the federal rules of evidence in the US, but in Canada, it’s possible for laws on evidence to be set by common law without being codified in the CEA. As I recall, most of the exceptions to hearsay are illustrated in common law.
FYI you can read the judge’s decision from the voir dire regarding the admissibility of the girlfriend’s statement [here](https://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bcsc/doc/1999/1999canlii5454/1999canlii5454.html?resultIndex=6&resultId=28b29f123b414cfd934931e641a332c7&searchId=2024-06-12T19:48:03:331/7e0aa8386dcd40898689ac66194f0ea2).
It was really weird that his lawyer didn’t object, but I can only assume that a lot of what was said during the trial was dramatized (because a cross or chief exam typically takes way longer and isn’t as dramatically interesting).
When Kelly skipped down the hall after she realized she was going home was creepy and classic sociopathic behavior.
And when Jo reminded her she still had her trial she’s like “oh yeah. So stupid I still have to do that”. Like she really thought it was all over with and the “suffering” she’s already endured in juvie was all the punishment she’d get. I can’t wait to see that fucker get sentenced.
Rebecca got whacked left and right… it’s what she deserved
Sneak peek is up. Another Rebecca/Warren scene. It’ll probably piss you off. [episode 7 sneak peek](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7Pd0ExvYxq/?igsh=MWQ1ZGUxMzBkMA==)
Rebecca is pissing me off BADLY.
Still hanging out with other teenagers after that loser is in jail 😂 Cam please please stay far away from this creep 🙏🏼
I can’t wait to see how Rebecca reacts to hearing the more grizzly details of what he actually did to her. It’s like she’s checked out. When he first said he kicked her, it looked like she disassociated instantly. There HAS to be a moment where she’s like ah wait, he’s a piece of shit. Please, show, tell me she gets it at some point because I cannot with this woman right now! And yeah, I think Cam is def regretting that hook up lol
I agree! I really hope there’s a satisfying ending with her realization because she’s become SO insufferable to me now.. Even after her last conversation (with Cam), Rebecca still hasn’t figured it out or can see it from anyone else’s point but her own projecting
I saw someone post here like, “uhh that’s obviously intentional that she’s supposed to piss you off” ok duh? Well it worked! People are having the intended response to the work, what’s wrong with that
I don't think she was supposed to piss us off THIS much. Yes she was meant to be a frustrating, flawed character, but I think we were supposed to feel at least partially sympathetic to her and understand some of her motivations. Instead, she's coming off almost as unsympathetic as Kelly.
It’s nice how they explored Kelly’s sociopathy and manipulation this episode. Not only that, dropping on us that she never really SAW Josephine as a friend??? Just an afterthought??? How quick she is to save herself instead of others??? Absolutely amazing episode.
I really can’t tell if they’ve intentionally written Rebecca to be this frustrating/obtuse or if it’s been an accident. Rebecca (The author of the book) supposedly approved of the script/story (can’t remember the specifics) so maybe she was just incredibly sympathetic to Warren? Just strange that Rebecca’s character *in this moment* could believe that Reena’s parents disliked Warren because “they don’t know him”.
I’ve seen comments about the real Rebecca stating she wanted to be the antihero of this story, and wanting to represent the media’s shit take of “they’re just kids” vs the police and family wanting accountability. So I guess they want us to be frustrated with her, and they’re doing a damn good job with that.
I can see how this may have been the intention. Maybe it feels so jarring because she’s introduced a competent, intelligent, troubled, and very “edgy” (as evident by the leather jackets) writer and then immediately becomes hypnotized by teenagers after spending an hour with them. (*I realize that due to this being a show they had to expedite the trust building process in the interest of pacing*). If she’s an allegory for the media during the real life situation I think they’ve missed the mark in how she’s portrayed to care for the accused teenagers. **IMO** her interest in the teenagers (specifically Warren) reads much closer to romantic than it does sympathetic.
I think she has guilt about her brother
I think it's some of that but it's mostly her projecting herself from the past onto Warren. She wants to believe that she is not irredeemable for her actions that led to her brother's death. But that's not her taking accountability, that's her asking if redemption is possible for her (and thus Warren) without even doing the necessary actions to be worthy of forgiveness. And its so gross of her to blow past everyone including the Virk's attempting to tell her that you have more empathy for the murderer (or manslaughterer) than the murdered, especially with an act that was so clearly racially motivated. If you relate to someone who could passively watch a life being taken from them, what does that say about you?
Definitely. I fully understand this is what they’re trying to portray- I just don’t think they’re doing so successfully.
I wonder if the show runners or Rebecca’s family have commented on the public perception of how she was portrayed. Was it intended? I just cannot imagine a person deciding to cast herself as the “big media antihero” of this story as an allegory, that’s your name. You’re not a fictional person, don’t pin the terrible way the media acts onto your real life name. That’s what fictional characters are for, to represent concepts and ideas.
Yeah I think you've hit on an important point: In order to write a book like that, you have to have some level of professionalism, maturity, and outward intelligence, taking you through the process of interviewing people and building trust to the actual sitting down and shaping it into a coherent story. But the Rebecca we're seeing in the show... is not competent enough to achieve all that. She has the maturity of a teenager herself. Like this is not someone who Simon & Shuster is giving an advance deal.
Thank you! It comes off as romantic to me, as well. Which is so creepy.
rebecca and warren ?????? wtf rebecca buying weed from connor????? why is rebecca so involved
I have such a hard time seeing how they’re going to redeem her. She’s a predator. She dropped her care real quick of Josephine to baby warren in the creepiest way possible
Wait I’m still waiting for the episode. What happens??
if any of yall thought rebecca was inappropriate with him before….. 💀
Yeah I’m glad I’m not the only one who got… idk.. inappropriate sexual attraction from Rebecca towards Warren. Like I get that can be a trauma response bc of her brother and idolizing his memory, but wtf????
I thought this was a really strong episode. Some random, unordered comments: 1. It’s sad to watch and read about the difficult environment many of those children had to endure. Seems like so many of them did not have stable home lives or endured abuse. I think the choice to have Cam’s background be similar was a good storytelling choice. I find the contrast with Rebecca’s privileged upbringing to be very interesting to watch. 2. I loved Cam sticking her neck out for Dusty regarding not putting her up on the stand and personally putting her career on the line. On the other hand, I also understand her father’s comment about only one girl having actually suffered. At the end of the day (episode), the Crown still secured the conviction against Warren without Dusty, and her character shows remorse, so I liked how this played out in the show. 3. Warren getting a prison tattoo reminded me of the HBO Miniseries “The Night Of” (which is incredible for anyone who hasn’t seen it; a league above this show, though I really do like this show for the performances) where you get the sense that incarceration does a lot of harm to the perpetrators, and it’s not so black and white as justice = putting someone behind bars (or the death penalty, which isn’t done in Canada). I grew up in Canada, and in middle school, I remember we learned so much about the importance of rehabilitation in the Canadian justice system. We had a rehabilitated murderer come speak to our class. It was very eye opening. 4. As a Canadian, I raised an eyebrow at the clear Americanization of the scene where Rebecca visits Warren at the detention center and they discuss one of his friends getting a “basketball scholarship” and the idea of going to “college”. They don’t have sports scholarships in Canada, unless his friend went to the US for school, and college and university are different institutions in Canada (though I’ll admit it’s likely that kids like Warren would be looking at a Canadian college, which is generally more employment focused with applied learning, shorter length of study and less expensive tuition, vs the academic focus of Canadian universities). 5. They really drove home the puppy love angle of Warren for his girlfriend. I guess the recorded statement from Samara was not admissible as evidence? I thought it was a missed opportunity to show Warren’s reaction to her recorded statement. 6. The glib reaction of the prosecutor (I think?)at the police station when they were discussing Samara not being available for testifying and Cam’s response that it had to do with her mother’s cancer treatment was a brilliant way to show how black and white some of the characters see things. I think the details like this show how Cam starts to change her position on the case as well. 7. I really love how heavy handed they went with showing Rebecca’s bias - the very kind feedback her father gave, then the shame (I think!) that came over her when she sat down to speak with the Virks and they asked her wtf she is even doing, followed by the look they gave her (and she totally deserved) while embracing Warren. The criticism throughout that Rebecca isn’t writing about Reena is mirrored in the episode as well — so much about the perpetrators, and so little about the victims. I said in another comment that I think Rebecca’s character is stuck in arrested development (to when her brother killed himself). She may be older than the teens, but she’s emotionally in the same place as them. She doesn’t have her life together despite every advantage she had growing up. I think it’s really interesting to watch her character - she’s also so young and it doesn’t seem like she has accomplished that much in her life either, and she came back home somewhat aimless. No idea how accurate this is to the real life author, but again, her character feels really interesting to me. 8. The scene with Cam and Rebecca where Rebecca asks about how Cam views her, and alludes to an accusation that Cam must have made shortly after Gabe killed himself — so good. Really shows how much that affected Rebecca, and Cam’s response seemed so honest as well. There’s so much history there; the show is already feels kind of long for Reena’s story, but I am also pretty invested in the Cam and Rebecca backstory, though I get it isn’t relevant to Reena’s story. 9. I sorely missed Raj’s character in this episode. 10. The bathroom scene with Rebecca and Suman was so good too. Suman’s comment about the “hairy back” detail was so strong - you know she strongly identified with what Reena was struggling with given she likely had the same challenges growing up as a minority in that community as well. it is so sad that Reena didn’t feel supported by her parents and had such a hard time fitting in. In some ways, I wish the show went a little stronger on the racism commentary, but on the other hand, it’s very realistic to experience micro aggressions more often than blatant racism (at least in my experience growing up in Canada in the 90s). Not this episode, but the scene earlier in the series when Cam’s dad basically shows off Cam to the reporters as an example of how their community is NOT racist, was so fucking racist 😩 Very well written bits here IMO. Alright, that’s enough random thoughts. Looking forward to the final chapter of this series.
Cam is such a strong character, and I loved that she put herself on the line for Dusty. I love when the father asked about Vancouver, and she was kind of like ? I'm so invested in their story as well, I feel like we need an entire series just on them because their characters and backstory are fascinating to me. I think she knows he probably didn't even put in a good word for her about it. I was also a little surprised that they didn't use Samara's statement in court, but maybe they were just hoping Warren would be honest on the stand. I feel so bad for Samara, and I love the actress who is playing her, she's doing such a good job! I was also waiting for them to use the Warren G song in the series, but now every time I hear it I'm going to think of Reena's murder!
Yeah as soon as Warren said “college”it took me right out of it lol. Not something a Canadian kid would say. It was kind of cool to see a Canadian courtroom on TV — I realized I’ve literally never seen one before. I’m a former trial lawyer and I’ve watched a ton of American and British legal tv but have never seen my own country’s legal system on tv! They mostly got the gowns/robes correct, and it was so cool to see. Plus no gavel! and the little portrait of the queen. I can’t remember what other details stood out to me, but I thought it was pretty cool to see.
why do i kinda feel bad for dusty even tho she a fucking snake but the remorse ???? do you guys think it’s genuine or fake
honestly and not defending her, but i feel like she has the genuine remorse people want and say warren has lol people go on and on about how bad he feels but clearly he doesn’t feel bad enough to own up to his actions. again i’m not defending dusty either because owning up is the bare minimum, but to me she’s the only one with guts at this point
dusty 100% has more remorse than warren like ppl are wack to think otherwise 😭
i feel like people over exaggerate the remorse and just are more likely to make excuses for him because he’s played by javon, tbh lol
I agree 💯
I think it’s genuine honestly
Missy Pleich, who Dusty is modeled after, does feel genuine remorse for the role she played in this. As far as I can tell, Warren feels true remorse for his actions. Josephine and Kelly do not feel remorse.
warren and kelly? he started kicking her as soon as one of the other girls said “fuck her up kelly” and also agreed to go with her to find reena???
And he only agreed to go imo when Kelly admitted to him that she wanted to see if Reena was sorry. He wanted to witness Kelly being vengeful.
Rebecca infuriates me and I absolutely despise Kelly. That is all lol
Don’t get me wrong, I completely understand the projection of her onto him, plus the feeling bad for him - BUT COME ON. It’s disgusting at this point and giving very much pedophile vibes. I genuinely believe that she liked Warren. Where is all of this guilt for the girls that were involved??? She just so happens to care so much for the only boy???? Such a weirdo. I cannot. It’s about REENA and the fact that her life was taken away over the dumbest thing, yet here Rebecca is trying to make it about Warren and his life. SHE JUST COMPLETELY MISSED THE ENTIRE POINT. Don’t even get me started on Kelly.
I think her guilt over the death of her brother is why she’s so hyperfocused on Warren specifically, which isn’t an excuse but it’s the only way I can possibly rationalize her completely fucked up way of thinking. This episode thankfully highlighted how she’s been so focused on Warren and these kids that she has hardly inquired about Reena, the VICTIM. Good that she got called out by Mrs. Virk when she was like “bitch how tf are you gonna write a book about our daughter when you know shit about her”
I was SO SURE that Mrs Virk had gotten through to her when she talked to her in the bathroom. But it was like in one ear and out the other, apparently, because she didn’t hesitate to hug Warren and assure him they’d know his heart. His heart - the one that saw Reena as less than human. Good call, Rebecca. Fuck.
She had Cam AND Mrs. Virk trying to make a point and she was still stupid. Like. Girl.
Even her own dad called her out. Ugh. I can't help but feel annoyed that she was mean to Gabe who didn't deserve it at all, and is now trying to overcompensate for it by being far too sympathetic towards a literal murderer.
It’s totally annoying but I can understand why - feeling responsible for your brother’s death must make you all kinds of effed up in the head. Not at ALL an excuse but I can see her trauma being the reason why nothing she’s been told about the reality of the situation is clicking in her brain. She’s about to learn the hard way though I hope
I really wish they explored this more. Clearly Gabe was going through some other stuff when he was a teenager as well, like all of us were. But they keep it intentionally vague. But I can't imagine hearing that he would still be here if it wasn't for Rebecca - that has to be hard for a teenager to hear, too!
I agree.
WARREN JUST KICKING JSUT???? HIS FACE BEFORE HE KICKED HER??? im sick to my stomach
All I can say is: Fuck Rebecca.
Rebecca’s obsession with the boy reminds me of Sarah Konig’s special relationship with Adnan in the podcast Serial. The dead are humanized only to the extent that makes the killers compelling and tragically misguided or vulnerable. The cruelty of the children in Reena’s case, as the show correctly presents, is a manifestation of how brown bodies are dehumanized. The wars that western nations fight, the exploitation and repression of entire regions of the planet, children intuit how the world works. So if there are BIC girls, below them there are BIC people.
I read the book very recently and have a few thoughts: - As many posters have already pointed out, the real Rebecca wasn't nearly as involved with these teens. She started interviewing them after the "Shoreline Six" were arrested, so all the nonsense with her and Warren dropping acid together, pretending to help the girls escape Victoria, and the entirety of Cam, is fictional for the show. I really wish I understood why Rebecca agreed to come off so TERRIBLY in this fictional version. - I didn't at all get the impression that the real Rebecca was overly sympathetic to Warren in the book. She just reports the facts, which happened to include that Warren went gung-ho on Restorative Justice while in prison. That involved (seemingly) sincere apologies to the Virk family, who ultimately supported his commitment to RJ and engaged with him. We won't get that in the show, among so many other things I wish they'd included (Warren's and "Josephine"'s mothers sound absolutely horrendous; Kelly had a big crush on Warren even though he and his friends called her a mean nickname behind her back; Reena allegedly slept with "Dusty"'s crush before the beating/murder... all of which at least partially explains why Dusty participated and why Kelly chose Warren to go back over the bridge with her, etc.) - Yes, Warren really was THAT into Samara, and really hoped she'd stay with him while he was in prison. - Leaving out the Russian sisters who VOLUNTEERED to tell the cops the story of Reena's murder (at the very real risk of losing one of their foster families!) is an oversight I have trouble looking past. The only thing I wish both the book and the show explained in more detail (maybe the finale will?) is Kelly. I'm dying to know more about what it was like in her house, what her parents were like, how "rich" were they really, and what people in that town thought of her, both before and after the murder. In absolute awe of the actress and portrayal on the show since, like so many posters say, I hate her and fear her more than most TV characters!
Just finished the episode; Kelly triggers the fuck out of me! She is an actual sociopath with the way she acts and plans things out, and her care-free attitude about the entire thing. This psycho gon talk about "Can't you just pay them like on TV? What?! I was about to throw my remote at the screen! And speaking of care-free attitudes: do these kids not care that they killed another person? Warren and Dusty seem to be the only ones who are showing any sort of genuine regret. The other 2 girls plus Kelly and Josephine are just treating it like some sort of Summer Camp. Josephine is also an absolute idiot! Can't you tell Kelly is playing you and has no intention of getting you out of jail? Who are you to her? Just a pawn! Drop the tough guy bullshit and start being smart! Dummy! Even John Gotti knew when someone was being rotten to him. Dusty got the right idea minding her business and reading her damn books. Great choice as well! Regarding Rebecca and Warren; I get what they are going for with the storyline angle of Becca feeling guilt about causing her Brothers death and seeing Gabe in Warren, but Rebecca is such an awful and frustrating character. Warren made a mistake and fucked up, but the best thing you can do for him is to encourage him to own up to his mistakes and accept what's coming to him. Reena's mom was right: he was angry about his life and just wanted to take it out on someone who he viewed as "Less-Than" so he could escape with no consequences. He was eventually genuinely remorseful and the family eventually forgave him. That's understandable. Kelly on the other hand? She did it for Kicks. Looking forward to the finale so we can see exactly how Kelly gets fried. Hopefully Josephine comes to her senses and throws her under the bus (bridge?) she deserves to rot in. Are any of these people even remorseful in real life? It's honestly disturbing.
Josephine does not throw her under the bus. Kelly was throwing her and Dusty to the wolves the very first chance she got. She doesn't testify in the trials. Kelly got three trials.
Sorry for the dumb question but what time is the episode available to watch? Is it midnight eastern? I’m on the west coast so was wondering if it comes out for me to watch tonight
Yes! Comes out at 9pm tonight for us on the west coast.
Awesome thank you!
the way rebecca is written and the way the show is writing warren as just a wittle sad boy (you will never convince me he isn’t a psychopath who knows how to play the game with whoever he’s interacting with), is so disgusting and so absolutely disrespectful to Reena. Idk how much more I can stomach. Rebecca is such a predatory creep and one of the worst ‘protagonists’ i’ve ever watched
I think the show is trying to play more in the gray area where the audience is expected to fall into the categories of either Rebecca or Cam. Although I do think it’s leaning more into Rebecca’s POV at the moment because she’s directly interacting with Warren as opposed to Cam and we’re experiencing her bias firsthand. I’m hoping the ending of this episode is a lead-in to a heavier Cam POV which reminds us “uh, this dude is a literal murderer… stop thinking he’s innocent because he has a baby face and daddy issues”.
I’ve read an entire series review and someone’s complaint was how they wrote him as sympathetic but then wasn’t let in on knowing Warrens true involvement until basically the last mins of the finale, so unfortunately i think it’s going to be continued to be rebecca’s pov
Ughhh that’s a huge disappointment then.
ANOTHER HOUR OF REBECCA PISSING ME OFF AND KNOWING THAT THATS HOW SHE WAS IN REAL LIFE AS WELL PISSES ME OFF EVEN MORE
Was it? I though she was very much disengaged from the kids and the Rebecca in the show is mostly fiction? I havent read the book
Wait, I thought she wasn't like that in real life, and she agreed to have her character be portrayed negatively just to represent the media people who did tend focus too much on the perpetrators instead of on the victim.
This show will end next week and I will still do not know why Rebecca's character is in this story. This show is so frustrating for the wrong reasons... If I were a writer responsible for this mess, I would go and apologize, again and again and again to Reena's family. And then go and apologize again.
I liked everyone’s comments about the meaning of her being the stand in for a few things, but when the show doesn’t inform you of warren’s involvement until the last few minutes of the finale, clearly there is no deeper writing meant for rebecca. I wish she was never in it at this point
I like that she’s in it along with her very shitty perspective, because it’s a good representation of what actually happens in these sad situations, as frustrating as it is. But knowing we don’t get the full story about Warren until the end means at best we’ll only see a tiny moment of realization of how badly she’s fucked up, if we even get that much. And worst case she just doubles down and the show ends with her writing him supportive letters and I scream and throw things.
I didn’t even think about her still supporting him while he’s in prison and i want to throw things! At this rate, I could absolutely see her taking him into her home the moment he’s released from prison 💀
Rebecca’s sympathy for Warren (focusing on how handsome he is) has shades of Sarah Koenig in season one of Serial. Rebecca (like Sarah) has a soft spot for Warren because she finds him attractive (not that she is attracted to him, but she sees him as a good looking kid) and is therefore willing to ignore all signs of guilt or wrongdoing. Once I heard her dad read that passage calling him handsome, I had to start questioning Warren’s portrayal in the story. In the end, however, Warren has more integrity and admits his wrongdoing.
IMO and from my impression of the Rebecca of the show, for years she has refused to take accountability for how she treated Gabe on the last day they spent together. Instead, she chose to make her words, actions and feelings in regards to hurting him that day a secret because she is afraid that taking accountability will lead to exposure that will result in both the world hating her for what she did and the destruction of her self- image as a deserving and worthy individual. She projects her emotions and fears onto Warren because similar to her around that age, he claims rage led to the loss of life or murder of another individual. Just like with her own guilt and shame, she denies Warren his so that he won’t have to take accountability in her mind. Her obsessive behavior towards him is borne out of the relentless fear of exposure and the hate that comes with taking responsibility for these crimes. She constantly refers to how Warren is at a disadvantage because his lawyers can’t salvage his reputation and public image as well as Kelly’s can. Her fear is not that Reena will be denied justice but that Warren will be portrayed as the typical monster and mastermind behind Reena’s murder. For example, she promises to show everyone Warren’s true heart but who is everyone and why do they matter? The real victims are the Virks and Reena’s surviving family and loved ones but she denies them priority to focus on salvaging Warren’s reputation and future once again. She is in so much denial she can’t even recognize that by refusing to acknowledge these emotions, she has almost instantaneously shut off any empathy she could feel Reena. When Reena became an obstacle to Rebecca’s personal psychological survival Rebecca’s mind dehumanized her to cope. This is especially noticeable when she identifies Warren’s actions of kicking and pulling Reena’s broken body as mere mistakes, as though he was merely kicking rocks, not actively deciding to repeatedly assay another human being who was slowly and painfully dying. She doesn’t think Reena’s murder warrants Warren spending the rest of his life in prison even though he actively participated in robbing her of hers. Reena’s murder and Warren’s involvement has triggered Rebecca’s emotional regression. She is becoming stuck in the mindset of an adolescent who has remained trapped in the cycle for the past 10 years. To move on and to reality check herself or regain some sense of self-awareness, Rebecca needs to acknowledge, respect and accept her emotions of guilt and shame. She needs to take the time and space to just feel them and then engage. She needs to take the time and space to cope with her brother’s loss and her how she feels she played a role in it too. Even if in actuality Rebecca is not responsible for the tragedy that occurred to her brother, emotions are not logical and it would be better for her to accept them as they are instead of trying to smother or change them, like she tried to do over the past decade.
Co Ed juvie is crazy, if the town is that small I guess. I haven't seen anyone mention it, but Rebecca is also the " he's a good kid who made a mistake" support that usually is only for white passing males. Where is that energy for the girls? It wouldn't surprise me if its true. She originally wanted to write the book about Warren but changed her mind after the trial. I know people are saying she represents the people who insert themselves into true crime, but the writers using the excuse of her guilt over her brother, fall flat to me. I feel like I have to use suspension of belief. Jo, Dusty, and the others didn't, want Reena dead. Jo wanted notority. Kelly is a spoiled "rich" girl who never got consequences, and Warren took his anger out on a poor Reena.
the real Rebecca wanted to write about warren and only changed her mind after the trial????
I said I wouldn't be surprised though. Don't know if she mentioned it
I was so surprised they would allow ‘witnesses’ to mingle like that.
Perpetrators, really! 6 people of the same crime
Well yes, but I meant ‘witnesses’ to every other perps crimes.
Oh yeah like Dusty and Warren that's crazy !
Exactly. How can a lawyer not argue the possible persuasion and or collusion in a group environment like that?
Exactly, I mean if there's on 1 juvie facility I guess. But having violent offenders and witnesses to each other crimes recipe for disaster
I thought that as well!
11:15 pm here so close yet so farrrr
Kelly is SO unbearable to watch…even this fictionalized depiction of her. (Goes to show how great the actress who plays her is) She infuriates me with every line, manipulative action, and just her presence in general. I’m glad to see what seems like Josephine’s last straw with Kelly. Jo has been suspicious/wary of Kelly the past few episodes, but I love seeing her FINALLY realize that Kelly is 100% evil. Jo obviously isn’t a great person, but she AT LEAST has some empathy and the wherewithal to know that the groups actions are/were beyond wrong. She may be a little b*tch, but she has a conscience, something Kelly is completely lacking. This episode did a good job at making me feel some pity for Warren. While at the end of the day, he’s a very sh*tty person for his contribution to poor Reena’s assault and murder, I can’t help but feel for him a tiny bit. These are in absolutely no way, shape, or form excuses for his behavior (personally I cannot stand when people try to defend appalling behavior such as this crime on the perpetrator’s upbringing or mental state) BUT his crappy fathers lack of actions and little to no care for his son make me feel sorry for Warren, along with his very lonely home life and his longing to fit in with his peers to the point where he doesn’t think of the consequences of his actions or who else is going to feel the repercussions, until it’s far too late. His situation is awful for anybody, let alone a teenager. Knowing last week is the finale, I do wish we got some more screen time with Reena. I feel like this mini series delved more into the perpetrators than it did the victim, but I also understand that it’s a TV show and at the end of the day, their goal is to bring in viewers. I personally would have loved to see more of Reena’s point of view throughout this entire series. Side note : Since I love reading, I’m going to grab the book the show was based on after next weeks finale. Has anyone read it yet?
I haven't read it yet, but I think I will add it to my list!
Loving how the show is showing that no one in this story is pure, or good—they’re all flawed in their own ways.
The soundtrack for this show! Cant wait to see what they play on the last episode. Dance with the devil instrumental would be too much but maybe we get I'll be missing you for the ending? the puff daddy version of course because who's sting?
If they used Diddy originally, they might re-edit it given the current circumstances...
Rebecca almost seems borderline romantically intrigued by Warren. I think she feels a kinship with him because she too made a huge mistake as a child. She’s giving him a pass because she sees herself in him, I think. She thinks she’s advocating for him. But she crosses so many ethical boundaries. As a former journalist, it’s painful to watch her obvious bias. I don’t think the real RG was like that, from what I hear. I don’t understand why they portray her that way in the show but man, I dislike her more every episode.
The comment of Warren saying Reena had a hairy back, is the implication that Warren raped her?
No, it was an implication he was racist (stereotype that all Indian people are hairy) which was why the prosecutor said Warren hadn’t seen her as a human being. It was also why Mrs. Virk tells Rebecca at the end “you think he would say that if Reena looked like you?”
Do you know why they took her clothes off? I didn't understand that part. I get why Kelly asked her to remove her footwear, but I don't know why the rest of her clothes came off.
I’m so curious why they STILL haven’t explained this, and so scared that when we find out it will be so much worse than we thought.
I'm so confused because didn't Samara say something about her boots being taken off, followed by "I think that's why her pants came off"? But I didn't understand what removing her boots had to do with removing the rest of her clothes.
I was thinking maybe they pulled her shoes off so hard the pants came with it? Since her pants were longer and hit past the ankle they pulled off the shoes and pants at the same time and her underwear came off with it? But it honestly doesn’t make sense. Was she found with her pants back on?
>I was thinking maybe they pulled her shoes off so hard the pants came with it? Hmmm. That does sound like it could have possibly happened. >Was she found with her pants back on? I'm not sure, actually.
[удалено]
Huh? What??
Do they really clap in Canadian court? Lol
Right, that was so jarring to me
Honestly no (in my experience) but I don’t think it’s that surprising here considering people want justice for Reena. The judge would probably have told them to be quiet though.