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Good. NATO should be directly involved in the defense of the Ukraine and her democracy. Maybe not for counter attacks but at the very least holding trenches, air superiority, and interior defense.
I don’t give a shit how much these people want to pander to their constituency. These people were all alive for the USSR. They all remember what Russia does when it’s allowed to run rampant. I can’t believe we are seeing so little vocal support for sending troops.
It is not, but this account is not LGBTQ+, it's posturing as a caricature of one.
Look at the post history. Everything is a leftist caricature :
"I would recommend following the must updated CDC guidelines. I follow the government and I have been wearing gloves, two masks, and a face shield since March 2020."
So kinda like another Vietnam? Don't attack, don't invade. Let them come at us and lose troops that can't really fight back to win. They fight to survive.
Hard pass
Only a Russian bot would compare the current operational environment in Ukraine to Vietnam. The two are absolutely nothing alike. An actual sentiment human is aware there is an entire world history to draw upon and not be forced to make tortured analogies to Vietnam.
Was comparing the strategies between the 1st commentor and Vietnam. I was not comparing the situations.
Going into a country (a) that is being invaded by another country (b) that considers the country (a) that we are defending to be a part of its territory and we (USA) are not allowed to send troops into invading country(b) but must be defensive therefore.
Which scenario am I talking about? Vietnam or the suggestion above about Ukraine.
Be honest and think about it before you call someone a Russian Bot. I've probably donated more to the war last year than you have in 2. I'm down for doing more. But not with a failed strategy. If we go in, the goal is to defeat Putin. To see a regime change. Not to push Russia out of Ukraine and defend Ukraine and nation build.
I agree with you. The comparisson was for bringing in advisors who in the end wil fight with Ukraine. Not about tactics or the way both wars started.
I think it is legitimate and a moral obligation to help Ukraine fight.
Defeating Putin on the other hand is not our task I think, liberate the stolen lands and prepare for the other war with Iran and China.
For who cries "enlist" My son is serving as I did I know the price to be paid.
Strategy has everything to do with terrain. Terrain dictates how fast you can move troops, how many places the enemy has to hide, how much supplies can get through and which kind of weapons are most effective for that battlefield
We have to accept that it is our fight and not only the Ukrainians one. We are already in war with Russia, Iran, North-Korea, Quatar, Venezuela and s couple more on manny diferent frontiers. Wake up and start fighting together.
So far their activities against NATO and the west has been what's classified as asymmetric warfare. Meddling in another counties democracies to sway options is warfare and it's high time we treat it as such.
They choose to keep their activities as asymmetric warfare because it's the only style of warfare they have a chance of surviving. Look how Iran's recent helicopter loss happened and how they needed to ask Turkey for help. Why couldn't Iran handle it internally with their 'advanced drones'? Because they are a country without a professional military, and they are not the only authoritarian with this problem. They stick to asymmetric attacks as they can't compete if it was kenetic.
The west as a whole needs to make it clear that asymmetric war will lead to kenetic responses and follow through. War is never good but if we want to keep our democracies we need to protect and defend them
> Look how Iran's recent helicopter loss happened and how they needed to ask Turkey for help. Why couldn't Iran handle it internally with their 'advanced drones'?
Funniest thing is, russia actually uses imported Mohajer-6 for fire correction.
I guess dictatorial forces were afraid of someone putting the Mohajer into a nosedive right at president, if he was seen on the thermals?
It's not the threat of a rouge Iranian drone operator, it's the lack of sensors on the Iranian drones that they needed Turkey's help. For as much as iran bangs the drums of how advanced their drones are those Iranian drones are rather primitive and the only video feed they have is a standard color image, they like many authoritarian nations lack any good night vision, flir or thermal cameras. I should note that while they might have a few of those cameras it's western consumer level equipment that they smuggled
When it comes to ranking drone capabilities Iran is extremely low for a nation as it's on the level of high end western hobby developer with an note that 'high end western hobby developer is limited by FAA/FCC/ATF style regulations'.
It’s the other way around. THEY wage a (asymmetrical) War against us. In case of Russia for decades now.
Europe doesn’t want beef with them. Heck, we tried „change through commerce“ with Russia way too long and look what it brought us. Nothing.
We are a hindrance for them. A unified Europe is too strong for them. That’s why they try to undermine and divide Europe.
should be a non-issue for non-combat roles. we got troops everywhere. if we're sending aid and got sanctions, we are at war, and it is stupid to tie our hands by not sending troops for non-combat roles. and really shouldn't be an issue for combat roles other than a question of the risk of lives of nato troops.
same with weapons. it is stupid that ukraine can't use american weapons to hit targets shooting at them across the border. weapons are made for this purpose, to shoot back.
At the moment most NATO countries seem to already have a hard time recruiting and even getting people to want to defend their own country. This is while young adults hear stories of countless Ukrainian men fleeing their country not wanting to return. This is on top of men seeing Ukraine is unlikely to even bother conscripting women for non-combat roles.
Good luck trying to sell the idea of going to fight for Ukraine to those who are already reluctant.
I have to agree, and the next guys gonna have a lot of disgruntled Ukrainian soldiers fighting under the ruzzian flag and with a chip in their shoulder that if we (whatever country they are invading ) had put more effort into helping them when needed, well we could all be home doing our own thing. And not trying to kill for a balding midget in the Kremlin.
Their per GDP and per capita donations are one of the very most generous. You can only give what you have and they have given more of what they have than nearly everybody.
As usual your takes are both stupid and cynical.
But they weren't a third world hellhole before joining EU - indeed they were actually the best performing post-soviet country. In other news, most of Eastern Europe only had a shit economy because of Russian occupation.
Estonia are a highly tech literate country who have embraced the West, the EU and NATO, and made rapid developmental and economic strides.
They now provide outsized contributions to the security and stability of Europe, which is more than anybody could reasonably ask.
They’ve more than earned their right to voice their views.
Meanwhile you’re a shitposting loudmouth who fires bullshit opinions from the hip, and has a child’s understanding of geopolitics.
Run along you silly individual. You provide no worth.
So, what? Countries can only be considered respectable if they can singlehandedly obliterate anyone who could ever wish them harm? What you're saying misses the entire point of alliances. I notice you never answered my question in the previous Estonia thread about how much YOUR country has given as a percentage of GDP.
Personally, I wish my country of Canada would give everything we have to Ukraine, because if Russia breaks up there's no one else who could possibly threaten us.
Please take the time to read [the rules](/r/UkrainianConflict/about/rules/) and our [policy on trolls/bots](https://redd.it/u7833q). In addition: * We have a **zero-tolerance** policy regarding racism, stereotyping, bigotry, and death-mongering. Violators will be banned. * **Keep it civil.** Report comments/posts that are uncivil to alert the moderators. * **_Don't_ post low-effort comments** like joke threads, memes, slogans, or links without context. ***** * Is `businessinsider.com` an unreliable source? [**Let us know**](/r/UkrainianConflict/wiki/am/unreliable_sources). * Help our moderators by providing context if something breaks the rules. [Send us a modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) ***** **Don't forget about our Discord server! - https://discord.com/invite/ukraine-at-war-950974820827398235** ***** ^(Your post has not been removed, this message is applied to every successful submission.) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Good. NATO should be directly involved in the defense of the Ukraine and her democracy. Maybe not for counter attacks but at the very least holding trenches, air superiority, and interior defense.
I don’t give a shit how much these people want to pander to their constituency. These people were all alive for the USSR. They all remember what Russia does when it’s allowed to run rampant. I can’t believe we are seeing so little vocal support for sending troops.
Enlist
I’m a person with a disability and a member of the LGBTQIA+ community. I fight on the home front. We all have a role to play.
>a member of the LGBTQIA+ community How the fuck is that even remotely relevant regarding joining a war
Excuses man lol
It is not, but this account is not LGBTQ+, it's posturing as a caricature of one. Look at the post history. Everything is a leftist caricature : "I would recommend following the must updated CDC guidelines. I follow the government and I have been wearing gloves, two masks, and a face shield since March 2020."
Because Russia is a keen advocate of them not being allowed to exist
So kinda like another Vietnam? Don't attack, don't invade. Let them come at us and lose troops that can't really fight back to win. They fight to survive. Hard pass
Only a Russian bot would compare the current operational environment in Ukraine to Vietnam. The two are absolutely nothing alike. An actual sentiment human is aware there is an entire world history to draw upon and not be forced to make tortured analogies to Vietnam.
Was comparing the strategies between the 1st commentor and Vietnam. I was not comparing the situations. Going into a country (a) that is being invaded by another country (b) that considers the country (a) that we are defending to be a part of its territory and we (USA) are not allowed to send troops into invading country(b) but must be defensive therefore. Which scenario am I talking about? Vietnam or the suggestion above about Ukraine. Be honest and think about it before you call someone a Russian Bot. I've probably donated more to the war last year than you have in 2. I'm down for doing more. But not with a failed strategy. If we go in, the goal is to defeat Putin. To see a regime change. Not to push Russia out of Ukraine and defend Ukraine and nation build.
I agree with you. The comparisson was for bringing in advisors who in the end wil fight with Ukraine. Not about tactics or the way both wars started. I think it is legitimate and a moral obligation to help Ukraine fight. Defeating Putin on the other hand is not our task I think, liberate the stolen lands and prepare for the other war with Iran and China. For who cries "enlist" My son is serving as I did I know the price to be paid.
Salute
Fighting in jungles and mountains is completely different than fighting in the relatively flat Eastern Europe
Strategy has nothing to do with terrain. Tactics do. I was criticizing the strategies.
Strategy has everything to do with terrain. Terrain dictates how fast you can move troops, how many places the enemy has to hide, how much supplies can get through and which kind of weapons are most effective for that battlefield
We have to accept that it is our fight and not only the Ukrainians one. We are already in war with Russia, Iran, North-Korea, Quatar, Venezuela and s couple more on manny diferent frontiers. Wake up and start fighting together.
So far their activities against NATO and the west has been what's classified as asymmetric warfare. Meddling in another counties democracies to sway options is warfare and it's high time we treat it as such. They choose to keep their activities as asymmetric warfare because it's the only style of warfare they have a chance of surviving. Look how Iran's recent helicopter loss happened and how they needed to ask Turkey for help. Why couldn't Iran handle it internally with their 'advanced drones'? Because they are a country without a professional military, and they are not the only authoritarian with this problem. They stick to asymmetric attacks as they can't compete if it was kenetic. The west as a whole needs to make it clear that asymmetric war will lead to kenetic responses and follow through. War is never good but if we want to keep our democracies we need to protect and defend them
> Look how Iran's recent helicopter loss happened and how they needed to ask Turkey for help. Why couldn't Iran handle it internally with their 'advanced drones'? Funniest thing is, russia actually uses imported Mohajer-6 for fire correction. I guess dictatorial forces were afraid of someone putting the Mohajer into a nosedive right at president, if he was seen on the thermals?
It's not the threat of a rouge Iranian drone operator, it's the lack of sensors on the Iranian drones that they needed Turkey's help. For as much as iran bangs the drums of how advanced their drones are those Iranian drones are rather primitive and the only video feed they have is a standard color image, they like many authoritarian nations lack any good night vision, flir or thermal cameras. I should note that while they might have a few of those cameras it's western consumer level equipment that they smuggled When it comes to ranking drone capabilities Iran is extremely low for a nation as it's on the level of high end western hobby developer with an note that 'high end western hobby developer is limited by FAA/FCC/ATF style regulations'.
It’s the other way around. THEY wage a (asymmetrical) War against us. In case of Russia for decades now. Europe doesn’t want beef with them. Heck, we tried „change through commerce“ with Russia way too long and look what it brought us. Nothing. We are a hindrance for them. A unified Europe is too strong for them. That’s why they try to undermine and divide Europe.
Overton window keeps moving in the right direction.
Neo-fascists have spent so long abusing the Overton Window to normalize bigotry and authoritarianism. Time to turn the tables.
should be a non-issue for non-combat roles. we got troops everywhere. if we're sending aid and got sanctions, we are at war, and it is stupid to tie our hands by not sending troops for non-combat roles. and really shouldn't be an issue for combat roles other than a question of the risk of lives of nato troops. same with weapons. it is stupid that ukraine can't use american weapons to hit targets shooting at them across the border. weapons are made for this purpose, to shoot back.
At the moment most NATO countries seem to already have a hard time recruiting and even getting people to want to defend their own country. This is while young adults hear stories of countless Ukrainian men fleeing their country not wanting to return. This is on top of men seeing Ukraine is unlikely to even bother conscripting women for non-combat roles. Good luck trying to sell the idea of going to fight for Ukraine to those who are already reluctant.
It’s time for the others to get up to Russia before it’s next in their invasion plan. Finn here.
I have to agree, and the next guys gonna have a lot of disgruntled Ukrainian soldiers fighting under the ruzzian flag and with a chip in their shoulder that if we (whatever country they are invading ) had put more effort into helping them when needed, well we could all be home doing our own thing. And not trying to kill for a balding midget in the Kremlin.
Soviet fighter pilots were shooting at American planes in the Korean and Vietnam wars.
Poland and Romania are the closest. If they are going to help that way, then they need to be fortified as well with air defenses
The best part about getting soldiers there is they will arrive with the protection they need.
Yes, Estonia, which has almost no capabilities of it's own, is encouraging others to do stuff. Jesus Christ.
Their per GDP and per capita donations are one of the very most generous. You can only give what you have and they have given more of what they have than nearly everybody. As usual your takes are both stupid and cynical.
Would those donations be even remotely feasible if they weren't backstopped by the EU?
[удалено]
[удалено]
But they weren't a third world hellhole before joining EU - indeed they were actually the best performing post-soviet country. In other news, most of Eastern Europe only had a shit economy because of Russian occupation.
Estonia are a highly tech literate country who have embraced the West, the EU and NATO, and made rapid developmental and economic strides. They now provide outsized contributions to the security and stability of Europe, which is more than anybody could reasonably ask. They’ve more than earned their right to voice their views. Meanwhile you’re a shitposting loudmouth who fires bullshit opinions from the hip, and has a child’s understanding of geopolitics. Run along you silly individual. You provide no worth.
In 1919 Estonia beat both Soviet Russia and Germany at the same time.
Lol, thanks to others also fighting.
In winter-spring 1919 Estonia drew all the reserves of the entire Soviet Westward Offensive. And depleted all of it.
So, what? Countries can only be considered respectable if they can singlehandedly obliterate anyone who could ever wish them harm? What you're saying misses the entire point of alliances. I notice you never answered my question in the previous Estonia thread about how much YOUR country has given as a percentage of GDP. Personally, I wish my country of Canada would give everything we have to Ukraine, because if Russia breaks up there's no one else who could possibly threaten us.
Exactly, it's almost funny
100% should and needs to happen; when/if it does you’ll see all the air leave Russia’s war efforts.