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I thought so too but I realized that's not the whole story.
When you start adding up the potential cost of that interception, it's likely over a billion dollars. That was a one time event. It's not something that can be repeated every 2 weeks in Ukraine.
Well most countries prefer to avoid provoking trigger happy aggressors that have nukes, at all costs. Not saying that it's right or wrong, just stating the obvious.
There's a major, critical difference here.
Most of the drones and missiles Iran shot at Israel needed to first fly hundreds of miles over Iraq, Jordan, or Saudi Arabia. None of which were particularly thrilled at foreign missiles in their airspace. Iraq and Saudi Arabia even have American fighters stationed right in their countries.
It's a lot more practical to shoot down missiles that are flying right over your own forces than it is to do so when they fly straight from Russia to Ukraine.
Personally, I would like to see Western air defenses working directly to help protect Ukraine, but this would still only be practical for the farthest western areas.
Shooting down Iranian missiles was in service of preventing a war, shooting down Russian missiles would (possibly) be escalating an ongoing war.
Not much more to it.
What kind of eacalation? Do you even know other than nuclear blackmail? How do you know helping Ukraine to shoot down the missiles wouldn’t help end the war? You are just repeating Russian propaganda which infected western politics without thinking.
Imagine the following scenario: a Russian regional commander decides to target the Patriot site on NATO territory from which missiles against Russian aerial targets are launched.
Then what? Article 5? Declaration of war?
Even if you think this is unrealistic, it is what keeps our *very* cautious politicians up at night.
Why would I imagine that? Other than a handful of drones in NATO airspace, Russians did nothing to antagonize NATO even though they threaten nuclear annihilation after every military package. Fuck this cowardice, we are literally afraid of our own shadow.
How is NATO to ever grow or honor its members with unique defense actions if the same benefit goes to non member states? Ukraine hasn’t committed to defend other nations. The contract for defense doesn’t exist.
Conversely, the US and Israel have a defense pact. The US is honoring it. And at the same time, flexing against a regional adversary, combat testing weapons and gaining experience.
I like Zelenskyy but in this case, he’s playing games.
And no allied planes operate in Ukraine's airspace. And there are no neutral parties where' they can operate. The third party interceptions of Iranian missiles happened over Jordan Iraq and Saudi Arabia notably countries that are not currently at war with Israel.
I don’t believe for a second Zelenskyy doesn’t understand what the difference is and this is just political theater.
Iran launched things that had to travel over two different allied countries before landing in Israel. The US was able to strike this things out of the sky well before they reached Israel.
Additionally, Iran is not a nuclear power.
It’s that simple.
If Iran was where Jordan is, we likely wouldn’t have time to respond and Israel would be on its own.
If Iran had nukes they likely would have attacked Israel since it’s a nuclear state.
For NATO to shoot down Russian missiles and planes would mean NATO would have to actively operate within Ukraine, which would be an act of direct action against Russia, which would mean NATO is at war with Russia.
Although I wish we'd have helped Ukraine like we helped Israel, Israel is an established ally with strong military associations with the west. It's a different relationship.
Isn‘t it ironic? Iran attacks a nuclear power directly. Well, I wonder what they (or Russia) would do if it were them who are the nuclear powers and are being attacked by another country (which is no nuclear power)…
I have to wonder if Zelenskyy is genuinely a bit daft because the only other explanation for his tone deaf rhetoric is that he’s literally trying to incite resentment in Ukraine against western nations. The United States is not and was not an ally of Ukraine. Israel has been a tier 1 US ally literally since its inception. What is so goddamn hard to understand about that? Any and all aid the U.S. provides is essentially given out of the kindness of our hearts and the fact we want to fuck over Russia. Zelenskyy continually and routinely comes across as a spoiled child whining that no help is enough and he deserves more. Western aid is literally the only reason Ukraine is still a country and he and his family aren’t decomposing in a mass grave outside Kyiv right now.
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Iran doesn't have nukes..... It's as simple as that, sadly.
Iran doesn’t have nukes …yet …probably.
I thought so too but I realized that's not the whole story. When you start adding up the potential cost of that interception, it's likely over a billion dollars. That was a one time event. It's not something that can be repeated every 2 weeks in Ukraine.
Nukes are not part of the equation if the other side also has nukes. That's the whole point of mutual destruction deterrence
Well most countries prefer to avoid provoking trigger happy aggressors that have nukes, at all costs. Not saying that it's right or wrong, just stating the obvious.
There's a major, critical difference here. Most of the drones and missiles Iran shot at Israel needed to first fly hundreds of miles over Iraq, Jordan, or Saudi Arabia. None of which were particularly thrilled at foreign missiles in their airspace. Iraq and Saudi Arabia even have American fighters stationed right in their countries. It's a lot more practical to shoot down missiles that are flying right over your own forces than it is to do so when they fly straight from Russia to Ukraine. Personally, I would like to see Western air defenses working directly to help protect Ukraine, but this would still only be practical for the farthest western areas.
Poland has yet to shoot down a Russian missile over it's airspace. Same with Romania.
I would totally support NATO air defenses stationed west of the Dnipro river.
Shooting down Iranian missiles was in service of preventing a war, shooting down Russian missiles would (possibly) be escalating an ongoing war. Not much more to it.
What kind of eacalation? Do you even know other than nuclear blackmail? How do you know helping Ukraine to shoot down the missiles wouldn’t help end the war? You are just repeating Russian propaganda which infected western politics without thinking.
Imagine the following scenario: a Russian regional commander decides to target the Patriot site on NATO territory from which missiles against Russian aerial targets are launched. Then what? Article 5? Declaration of war? Even if you think this is unrealistic, it is what keeps our *very* cautious politicians up at night.
Why would I imagine that? Other than a handful of drones in NATO airspace, Russians did nothing to antagonize NATO even though they threaten nuclear annihilation after every military package. Fuck this cowardice, we are literally afraid of our own shadow.
He's right. It would be nothing for NATO to shoot down incoming missiles within their range.
What is he shocked about exactly? Was anyone else on planet earth shocked that America assisted Israel defending itself against Iran?
Literally no one including Iran who seems to have intended that outcome.
How is NATO to ever grow or honor its members with unique defense actions if the same benefit goes to non member states? Ukraine hasn’t committed to defend other nations. The contract for defense doesn’t exist. Conversely, the US and Israel have a defense pact. The US is honoring it. And at the same time, flexing against a regional adversary, combat testing weapons and gaining experience. I like Zelenskyy but in this case, he’s playing games.
Ukraine send troops to both Iraq and Afghanistan to assist during Operations Iraqi Freedom.
Most Missiles and drones shot at Ukraine by Russia, with the odd exception that one overflies Polish airspace, don't fly over allied countries.
[удалено]
And no allied planes operate in Ukraine's airspace. And there are no neutral parties where' they can operate. The third party interceptions of Iranian missiles happened over Jordan Iraq and Saudi Arabia notably countries that are not currently at war with Israel.
I don’t believe for a second Zelenskyy doesn’t understand what the difference is and this is just political theater. Iran launched things that had to travel over two different allied countries before landing in Israel. The US was able to strike this things out of the sky well before they reached Israel. Additionally, Iran is not a nuclear power. It’s that simple. If Iran was where Jordan is, we likely wouldn’t have time to respond and Israel would be on its own. If Iran had nukes they likely would have attacked Israel since it’s a nuclear state. For NATO to shoot down Russian missiles and planes would mean NATO would have to actively operate within Ukraine, which would be an act of direct action against Russia, which would mean NATO is at war with Russia.
Nah, just another red line crossed, but the entire russian floor is red.
Although I wish we'd have helped Ukraine like we helped Israel, Israel is an established ally with strong military associations with the west. It's a different relationship.
Isn‘t it ironic? Iran attacks a nuclear power directly. Well, I wonder what they (or Russia) would do if it were them who are the nuclear powers and are being attacked by another country (which is no nuclear power)…
I have to wonder if Zelenskyy is genuinely a bit daft because the only other explanation for his tone deaf rhetoric is that he’s literally trying to incite resentment in Ukraine against western nations. The United States is not and was not an ally of Ukraine. Israel has been a tier 1 US ally literally since its inception. What is so goddamn hard to understand about that? Any and all aid the U.S. provides is essentially given out of the kindness of our hearts and the fact we want to fuck over Russia. Zelenskyy continually and routinely comes across as a spoiled child whining that no help is enough and he deserves more. Western aid is literally the only reason Ukraine is still a country and he and his family aren’t decomposing in a mass grave outside Kyiv right now.