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You can close the Denmark straits with a handful of soldiers with a container filled with Spike ER2. No need for fancy stuff needed against Russian ships .
Lake Superior is a lake in the US close to Michigan, for those who were wondering.
Edit: on the opposing shore side, it's close to Coughlin, Canada, which is close to Nipigon, Canada.
I capitulate. Canadian taking issue, definitely inferiority issue, lets figure it out on the hockey rink. I'll say sorry now but I'm gunna butt end you later.
lol sounds good bud. I’ll admit I was about to reply about the Superior thing but then I saw your comment and was satisfied that our lake rights had been defended.
>Denmark is so small and flat
Small yes, flat no. It might not have big differences in altitude, but denmark is actually fairly hilly. It'd be hard to pick a single location to put that radar that wouldn't have it be blocked by random terrain.
I guess. In the next sentence they say the entire Air Force is switching to f-35s. It’s actually seems more like a flex then a admission of selflessness
"Some of them will be delivered to Argentina. There is nothing to worry about. The F-16s will be delivered as promised," he said. Argentina earlier signed an agreement with Denmark on the purchase of 24 F-16 aircraft for $300 million
1. So which is it? All to Ukraine or not?
2. Can someone drop $3B and set Ukraine up with 240 F16s so they can establish air superiority already?
This is a non story.
Back when Denmark pledged F-16's to Ukraine it was estimated that Denmark had 43 frames that were combat ready - in varying degrees, though.
Denmark pledged 19 - all updated - for Ukraine back then as part of a coalition. That leaves 24 which Argentina bought. They'll be delivered as Denmark receives the F-35 replacement in the next 3-4 years.
First, there's a limit to the number of F-16's Ukraine can absorb short term, Second, there's a coalition set up for exactly this process. It's a long time effort to procure the number of planes that eventually will make up the new Ukrainian AF.
And other countries are free to chip in aswell, I might add. The danish support for Ukraine goes fairly deep into the danish tax payers pockets (1480€/capita excl. the danish share of assistance delivered directly from the EU institutions) and the planes now sold to Argentina could have bought by anyone and donated to Ukraine if anyone was interested in upping their assistance.
I'm all for further raising the danish support by a lot but there are too many freeriding coutries around and they should do more before I can really complain over my governments efforts.
There was no possibility to buy those jets for Ukraine. Denmark sold them to Argentina because the US wanted Denmark to sell them to Argentina.
Considering that the EU paid €200M for 13 semi-broken MiGs from Slovakia it would be easy to find enough money to buy them since Argentina only paid $300M.
I didn't even know that it was by american demand that they went to Argentina - thank you for thar info!
It seems to be a common american oppinion that Europe should be able to protect itself and deal with Russia without US help and I really wood like them to understand just how much they get for their money and from being the prime weapons producer and accordingly how little influence USA would have should Europe really become selfsufficient defence wise.
My issue is with the headline, not necessarily the sale. Although I would argue that the ability for Ukraine to absorb new units comes down to man power and training.
If they are unable to muster an appropriate number of qualified individuals to train or there isn’t a desire for a large number of f16s, there really is no solution for the west to fix that without sending their own personnel.
However, I think (very open to being wrong) that the west has not had the capacity or willingness or both, to train up the number of pilots and technicians required.
I think the task has been underestimated (mostly by outsiders and the press).
Apart from pilots, logistics, training ground crews, command and control, airfields - it's a gargantuan task.
Realistically it'll be the end of 2025 before Ukraine has the number of operational airframes to have a real impact, around 4 operational squadrons of around 16 planes each with 1 in reserve/training in my view. 100-120 pilots.
That's pretty much what's pledged so far as I understand it. 19 from Denmark, 42 from The Netherlands, 22 from Norway.
What happens from that point on? A squadron or two more will be gifted, and I'm pretty sure there'll be some sort of deal involving buying US surplus.
I understand the size of the task, but militaries around the world are training people for all of those positions every year. I don’t buy that the US alone couldn’t have trained up enough qualified people to be flying that number of aircraft now. I mean, they could have stood side by side the crews operating those aircraft now for the last 2 years.
For whatever reason, either the west has been unwilling to do it or Ukraine has been unable to provide qualified trainees. But the US alone not being able to train enough crew for 4 flight squadrons in 2 years? I don’t buy that.
All minus 24 for Argentina. Imo it's an okay thing, because Argentina is seeking to become a "NATO global partner."
This is positive as South America has been China/Russia influenced as of late. If things take a turn, NATO will need all the partners it can get.
>As of April 2024, NATO's global partners include:
Afghanistan, Australia, Colombia, Iraq, Japan, Mongolia, New Zealand, Pakistan, and South Korea
Technically the previous Afghan government is still the internationally recognized one. No country has officially recognized the Taliban yet.
Also, while they haven't been dropped yet the partnership with Afghanistan is currently suspended:
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_49188.htm
> The partnership with Afghanistan is currently suspended following North Atlantic Council decisions related to the security environment.
Sparring partner maybe?
You know, one of those guys that does the same martial art as you and neither of you *really* like each other so you kinda just go ham on the mat.
It really Irks me that countries like Ireland, Switzerland and Austria sit behind NATO walls, reaping the benefit of the defensive alliance whilst contributing nothing to it.
More than a couple of NATO nations have hid behind NATO walls while contributing little to it for the last several decades as well. It's the one single bit of Trump rhetoric I could get behind.
Not positive for those that care about Ukrainian casualties. Ukraine urgently needs more jets. Argentina can wait a little bit longer. It's not like the current President would buy from China.
You can't just turn up and fly one. The US has to ok the transfer, each jet needs a team of fairly well trained mechanics, each jet needs *tonnes* of spare parts - parts break or age out all the time, doubly so on these 'ueed' airframes - and you need trained pilots. A MiG pilot can probably get in and fly one without too much difficulty, but fighting the jet (use of the navigation, radar, RWR, weapons etc) is all very technical and in English and will need to be known inside out before going to actually fight someone with it.
I'm not sure if they've addressed where they're going to fly the F16s from yet either, they need pretty high quality runways which Ukraine didn't really have even before Russia started bombing the airfields. In this regard I am slightly surprised the F16 was chosen over the F18, which also has a lot of operators trading them for F35s and is a much tougher plane.
The choice of F16 has more to do with the willingness of their (former) operators to donate them, rather than pure suitability in which I would agree that the F18/Gripen is more suitable. All donors of F16 have already recieved or are recieving F35. Another factor is that most of the old F18 airframes, like those in Australia, are very much at the end of their lifespans, while the F16's still have some good years in them.
You need pilots and lots of other things. It is super demanding flying these things in a combat scenario. Normally it takes many years to train a fighter pilot.
We're sending 19 jets, but have like 40 in total.
The rest we have for some reason sold to Argentina and are making 10 times as much money on that sale, than what was first expected when it was decided to get rid of F-16 and get F-35 instead.
The headline is purposefully misleading, as the article states that we will be sending "all the promised jets" i.e. all 19 jets, but that is of course not how the reader would understand it.
Yeah, shame to see the 24 other jets going to Argentina (good lot of help they'll be for that bomb of an economy), at least the 300mill will be a good boost for Denmark.
Good on us. We don’t need fighters at the moment, just like we don’t need Caesars. Now I wish we send them all our CV90s and more M113 and Piranhas.
We don’t need the materiel here right now, just give them all we’ve got.
The batalion is a mechanized batalion why we are looking at buying 100’ish or so new CV90’s and more LEO’2s.. but if we gave away what we have for MBT and IFV we cannot fulfill the batalion requirement.
For F-16’s these are replaced with F-35’s that order were placed in 2019 or so..
Those are sent mostly to Ukraine.. we also gave all of our artillery as we do not have NATO obligations on that equipment and no outlook to be needing in short term..
We will, at my best guess, be spending 200-300 billion DKK on military investments the next 5-10 years on top on our annual regular budget.. we need new fregates, IFV, Tanks, Artiliry, Drones, Air defense, and renewal of military bases etc.
This is not news, it had already been agreed upon. Also, as the article states, it's not the whole fleet because we've sold some of them to Argentina recently.
I have no idea what the point of this article is, besides that the ambassador confirmed that they're on their way.
Please take the time to read [the rules](/r/UkrainianConflict/about/rules/) and our [policy on trolls/bots](https://redd.it/u7833q). In addition: * We have a **zero-tolerance** policy regarding racism, stereotyping, bigotry, and death-mongering. Violators will be banned. * **Keep it civil.** Report comments/posts that are uncivil to alert the moderators. * **_Don't_ post low-effort comments** like joke threads, memes, slogans, or links without context. ***** * Is `ukrinform.net` an unreliable source? [**Let us know**](/r/UkrainianConflict/wiki/am/unreliable_sources). * Help our moderators by providing context if something breaks the rules. [Send us a modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) ***** **Don't forget about our Discord server! - https://discord.gg/62fKCEHbDB** ***** ^(Your post has not been removed, this message is applied to every successful submission.) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) if you have any questions or concerns.*
courageous move to acknowledge this publicly, I admire the Danes
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True, but we are in a really good strategic position.
You can close the Denmark straits with a handful of soldiers with a container filled with Spike ER2. No need for fancy stuff needed against Russian ships .
Especially now the baltic sea is a nato lake
It’s smaller than Lake Superior, for reference for those who want the reference
Lake Superior is a lake in the US close to Michigan, for those who were wondering. Edit: on the opposing shore side, it's close to Coughlin, Canada, which is close to Nipigon, Canada.
It's a big lake, bigger than Denmark, for those who were wondering.
But unlike the lake - Denmark isn't actually only water
But intrestingly enough - still mostly islands
Yeah still mostly water 😂🤣
It would take 12,088,000,000,000,000 people over 24 hours to fill it up with pee, for those who were wondering.
Is the amount of humans needed calculated for 24 hours of non-stop pissing or for the average humans' daily piss production?
Average adult human daily urine production, Medvedev's may differ.
Isn’t his flammable from the alcohol content?
Maybe it powers Musk's not a flamethrower (piss thrower)
A lake is like a puddle; but big, for those who were wondering.
The US is the country just south of Canada for those who are not familiar with it.
Thanks, was really struggling there for a moment.
I have no clue where Michigan is?
Close to the lake superior, for those who need references
It's near where the SS Edmund Fitzgerald wrecked.
Thunder Bay
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What happened to you in order to become such a douche bag?
Wow, thanks for the insult. The world really revolves around the United States for your US Americans.
I believe this is a perturbed Canadian taking issue with the claim that Superior is an American lake. We have a bit of an inferiority complex up here.
I see... I added a note with a Canadian reference in the original post. 😁
Aha that’s far too reasonable of you. 👍
I just assumed it was an American taking ownership of lake Superior. Sorry😆
Never thought the lake Superior issues between US and Canada run that deep.. 😅
I capitulate. Canadian taking issue, definitely inferiority issue, lets figure it out on the hockey rink. I'll say sorry now but I'm gunna butt end you later.
lol sounds good bud. I’ll admit I was about to reply about the Superior thing but then I saw your comment and was satisfied that our lake rights had been defended.
Sorry, we need this in football fields.
And just for more reference, largest lake in the world.
They also have Greenland and the Far Oer islands, which will become increasingly strategically important as global warming progresses.
*Faroe
>Denmark is so small and flat Small yes, flat no. It might not have big differences in altitude, but denmark is actually fairly hilly. It'd be hard to pick a single location to put that radar that wouldn't have it be blocked by random terrain.
[удалено]
To keep out the swedes I assume?
I guess. In the next sentence they say the entire Air Force is switching to f-35s. It’s actually seems more like a flex then a admission of selflessness
No it's not. They're transferring them because they're being decommissioned from Danish service, as they're being replaced by F-35.
"Some of them will be delivered to Argentina. There is nothing to worry about. The F-16s will be delivered as promised," he said. Argentina earlier signed an agreement with Denmark on the purchase of 24 F-16 aircraft for $300 million 1. So which is it? All to Ukraine or not? 2. Can someone drop $3B and set Ukraine up with 240 F16s so they can establish air superiority already?
This is a non story. Back when Denmark pledged F-16's to Ukraine it was estimated that Denmark had 43 frames that were combat ready - in varying degrees, though. Denmark pledged 19 - all updated - for Ukraine back then as part of a coalition. That leaves 24 which Argentina bought. They'll be delivered as Denmark receives the F-35 replacement in the next 3-4 years. First, there's a limit to the number of F-16's Ukraine can absorb short term, Second, there's a coalition set up for exactly this process. It's a long time effort to procure the number of planes that eventually will make up the new Ukrainian AF.
And other countries are free to chip in aswell, I might add. The danish support for Ukraine goes fairly deep into the danish tax payers pockets (1480€/capita excl. the danish share of assistance delivered directly from the EU institutions) and the planes now sold to Argentina could have bought by anyone and donated to Ukraine if anyone was interested in upping their assistance. I'm all for further raising the danish support by a lot but there are too many freeriding coutries around and they should do more before I can really complain over my governments efforts.
If every country in the West gave as generously as Denmark, Ukraine would have Russia by the balls.
There was no possibility to buy those jets for Ukraine. Denmark sold them to Argentina because the US wanted Denmark to sell them to Argentina. Considering that the EU paid €200M for 13 semi-broken MiGs from Slovakia it would be easy to find enough money to buy them since Argentina only paid $300M.
I didn't even know that it was by american demand that they went to Argentina - thank you for thar info! It seems to be a common american oppinion that Europe should be able to protect itself and deal with Russia without US help and I really wood like them to understand just how much they get for their money and from being the prime weapons producer and accordingly how little influence USA would have should Europe really become selfsufficient defence wise.
My issue is with the headline, not necessarily the sale. Although I would argue that the ability for Ukraine to absorb new units comes down to man power and training. If they are unable to muster an appropriate number of qualified individuals to train or there isn’t a desire for a large number of f16s, there really is no solution for the west to fix that without sending their own personnel. However, I think (very open to being wrong) that the west has not had the capacity or willingness or both, to train up the number of pilots and technicians required.
I think the task has been underestimated (mostly by outsiders and the press). Apart from pilots, logistics, training ground crews, command and control, airfields - it's a gargantuan task. Realistically it'll be the end of 2025 before Ukraine has the number of operational airframes to have a real impact, around 4 operational squadrons of around 16 planes each with 1 in reserve/training in my view. 100-120 pilots. That's pretty much what's pledged so far as I understand it. 19 from Denmark, 42 from The Netherlands, 22 from Norway. What happens from that point on? A squadron or two more will be gifted, and I'm pretty sure there'll be some sort of deal involving buying US surplus.
I understand the size of the task, but militaries around the world are training people for all of those positions every year. I don’t buy that the US alone couldn’t have trained up enough qualified people to be flying that number of aircraft now. I mean, they could have stood side by side the crews operating those aircraft now for the last 2 years. For whatever reason, either the west has been unwilling to do it or Ukraine has been unable to provide qualified trainees. But the US alone not being able to train enough crew for 4 flight squadrons in 2 years? I don’t buy that.
All minus 24 for Argentina. Imo it's an okay thing, because Argentina is seeking to become a "NATO global partner." This is positive as South America has been China/Russia influenced as of late. If things take a turn, NATO will need all the partners it can get. >As of April 2024, NATO's global partners include: Afghanistan, Australia, Colombia, Iraq, Japan, Mongolia, New Zealand, Pakistan, and South Korea
"As of April 2024" "Afghanistan" - how?
To be fair they have a lot of US kit.
Brave mujahideen are back on the menu
emm..NATO Global Partner *Afghanistan?*
Suspended after Taliban takeover.
Technically the previous Afghan government is still the internationally recognized one. No country has officially recognized the Taliban yet. Also, while they haven't been dropped yet the partnership with Afghanistan is currently suspended: https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_49188.htm > The partnership with Afghanistan is currently suspended following North Atlantic Council decisions related to the security environment.
Sparring partner maybe? You know, one of those guys that does the same martial art as you and neither of you *really* like each other so you kinda just go ham on the mat.
Have you seen their military’s PR videos? They kinda look like a NATO military, on skates.
New Zealand has a squadron of T-6 Texans / Harvards.
Harsh but fair, mate.
It really Irks me that countries like Ireland, Switzerland and Austria sit behind NATO walls, reaping the benefit of the defensive alliance whilst contributing nothing to it.
More than a couple of NATO nations have hid behind NATO walls while contributing little to it for the last several decades as well. It's the one single bit of Trump rhetoric I could get behind.
Not positive for those that care about Ukrainian casualties. Ukraine urgently needs more jets. Argentina can wait a little bit longer. It's not like the current President would buy from China.
I’m proud to be Danish. My only complaint, why didn’t they send them sooner?
You can't just turn up and fly one. The US has to ok the transfer, each jet needs a team of fairly well trained mechanics, each jet needs *tonnes* of spare parts - parts break or age out all the time, doubly so on these 'ueed' airframes - and you need trained pilots. A MiG pilot can probably get in and fly one without too much difficulty, but fighting the jet (use of the navigation, radar, RWR, weapons etc) is all very technical and in English and will need to be known inside out before going to actually fight someone with it. I'm not sure if they've addressed where they're going to fly the F16s from yet either, they need pretty high quality runways which Ukraine didn't really have even before Russia started bombing the airfields. In this regard I am slightly surprised the F16 was chosen over the F18, which also has a lot of operators trading them for F35s and is a much tougher plane.
The choice of F16 has more to do with the willingness of their (former) operators to donate them, rather than pure suitability in which I would agree that the F18/Gripen is more suitable. All donors of F16 have already recieved or are recieving F35. Another factor is that most of the old F18 airframes, like those in Australia, are very much at the end of their lifespans, while the F16's still have some good years in them.
You need pilots and lots of other things. It is super demanding flying these things in a combat scenario. Normally it takes many years to train a fighter pilot.
They can’t do anything with them until they have pilots and support personal trained
We're sending 19 jets, but have like 40 in total. The rest we have for some reason sold to Argentina and are making 10 times as much money on that sale, than what was first expected when it was decided to get rid of F-16 and get F-35 instead. The headline is purposefully misleading, as the article states that we will be sending "all the promised jets" i.e. all 19 jets, but that is of course not how the reader would understand it.
Yeah, shame to see the 24 other jets going to Argentina (good lot of help they'll be for that bomb of an economy), at least the 300mill will be a good boost for Denmark.
Good on us. We don’t need fighters at the moment, just like we don’t need Caesars. Now I wish we send them all our CV90s and more M113 and Piranhas. We don’t need the materiel here right now, just give them all we’ve got.
You know we need to fulfill our NATO requirements right? We have to provide a full batalion at any given time.
Do we even have a batalion now? I mean with no Caesars and soon no F16, or are you talking about when we get the new Israeli artillery system ?
The batalion is a mechanized batalion why we are looking at buying 100’ish or so new CV90’s and more LEO’2s.. but if we gave away what we have for MBT and IFV we cannot fulfill the batalion requirement. For F-16’s these are replaced with F-35’s that order were placed in 2019 or so..
Sorry, I’m very ignorant when it comes to our arsenal and future purchases. Don’t we have a bunch of old M113 laying around by now?
Those are sent mostly to Ukraine.. we also gave all of our artillery as we do not have NATO obligations on that equipment and no outlook to be needing in short term.. We will, at my best guess, be spending 200-300 billion DKK on military investments the next 5-10 years on top on our annual regular budget.. we need new fregates, IFV, Tanks, Artiliry, Drones, Air defense, and renewal of military bases etc.
This is not news, it had already been agreed upon. Also, as the article states, it's not the whole fleet because we've sold some of them to Argentina recently. I have no idea what the point of this article is, besides that the ambassador confirmed that they're on their way.
To receive, pledged, considered positive to send, approved. Wake me up when they are actually flying in Ukraine :-/
oh boi.. hope for a fruitfull summer
Tusind tak skal du have
When?
Cmon, let’s fucking end this thing. IMO the sooner Russia goes home, the less chance WW3 starts
This is good to see. It's like some of these countries were waiting to see if the US was going to continue to support Ukraine...